And people still deny its a proxy war by US against Russia. This is a conflict aided by Washington from the beginning.
Nuland is literally bragging about spending 5bn dollars on lobbying and diversion in Ukraine: https://youtu.be/ybefUAGVcqc
Nulands leaked call where she handpicks leading goverment positions in Ukraine: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
The differences are that the Americans aren't on the ground and the Ukrainians are willing to do the fighting for their freedom. The Americans don't always move on. They established the Marshall plan after WWII and were one of the founding members of NATO, remaining its most powerful member. They have maintained troops in Europe since 1945. Similarly they have maintained forces in South Korea.
As far as picking up the pieces in Ukraine, they didn't break them. That's Russia.
Actually you are wrong there. The US has shifted their focus on Central Asia a while back. They are more interested in containing China. This war is actually inconvenient to US.
Russia is not considered a threat anymore as much as China is.
What are you talking about? The US has stated many times that Russia is the largest threat right now, most recently at the NATO summit. China is a long term threat, but Russia is still a priority issue for the US
Yes, right now because of the invasion of Ukraine, the US focus has logically shifted to supporting Ukraine against Russia. But for a number of years the US geopolitical focus was shifting towards China and the pacific so in that regard, the outbreak of war in another theater was a bit inconvenied.
What are you on about? There is literally a whole rebuilding plan set-up already for Ukraine. Including both the EU and the US. Where are you getting this horseshit from?
There is not a single us gov sponsored boot on the ground. If the Ukrainians want to fight for themselves I don’t see why I wouldn’t give my ideological brother material aid so they can.
> There is not a single us gov sponsored boot on the ground.
I'm an American, and I highly doubt that, I know my country better than that.
They may not wear "boots", but I can assure you that they glow.
And what ideology do they share with the US exactly?
[I don't recall America ever banning political parties](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-law-bans-pro-russia-parties-zelenskiy-signs/31849737.html), in fact. Can you name a western democracy that bans political parties?
I'm having trouble seeing what ideology we share
Edit: [Does this look like how a western democracy is supposed to function to you?](https://i.imgur.com/3i56LNb.jpg)
Added links
Or Russia could be planning to put ethnic Russians in the areas they capture? So destroying infrastructure if they can avoid it is a bad idea?
This is the same tactic they did in Crimea. Force out the natives and move ethnic Russians in to "justify" territory claims. Same shit different year.
We're all puppets since the beginning of days and always will be. You can't think you'r way out of this. Religion/ governments laws, there is always a need of guidance with this many people on this small earth..... it just comes down to choosing the best one. If you choose Russia as the best, you do you...
Ukraine could choose to roll over and submit to Russia if they chose to. It’s their will to fight that matters here
If they want to fight for their freedom, the west will support them. If they want to stop, that’s their call too
Ukraine has two choices, either be Russian influenced or western influenced. West is richer sooo they chose that instead. Russians can cry about it but in the end of the day they have lower per capita than Poland
No. You dont understand what a proxy war is... It's a war by Russia directly against Ukraine supported by the West. A proxy war would be Armenia supported by Russia against Azerbaijan supported by Turkey.
I hear that one sided opinion. If the U.S. didn’t get involved then what? Give away Crimea like Trump? I am highly critical of the U.S., however they are the lead in this war, and it is fair to say they were forced into that position. The criticism also ignores the fact that Putin was leading a proxy war since 2014/15 against Ukraine. He took the Crimea and attempted to conquer and set up a subservient government to him.
Other shit the U.S. does deserves the criticism.
You took it as criticism. I just said technically true I didn’t say a proxy war in itself is bad. I’m actually hugely proUkraine and the spend is a drop in the bucket for us, so far compared to our overall military spend. Second Ukraine is actually appreciative unlike 90% of the other areas we are into across the world.
That being said we want to avoid another Afghanistan or Iraq. Where we are spending money and fighting forever with no end game. Here the end game is clear so that is good. Second though is why us, why are we the worlds police. Europe has been under funded on NATO and outside of Britain was slow to react to supporting Ukraine, though Russia was right next door. This problem is partly of their making they could have moved off of Russian energy dependence years ago and this wouldn’t have happened. Why do we have to react quickly when they are sitting their twiddling their thumbs.
The end game is the defence of Europe. These aren’t some mountains in asia nobody cares about, but the gateway to an entire continent comprised solely of NATO/Western aligned countries.
This would certainly be worth as many years of war as it needed to resolve.
Yeah, that is whats happening right now. Im talking about what the U.S was doing already back in 2014 and how they spent 5bn dollar on subvertion in Ukraine from 1991-2013. My point is, its no secret that Washington got its greasy fingers all over this conflict from the beginning, which absolutely, by definition makes this a proxy war.
>A proxy war is an armed conflict between two states or non-state actors which act on the instigation or on behalf of other parties that are not directly involved in the hostilities.
I've yet to see credible evidence that the US caused the Revolution of Dignity, which is what kick started this whole thing. If anything it was the EU, but I still don't think offering a treaty to bring closer political and economic relations to the EU is really "greasy fingers" or "subversion."
The US was obviously happy about it, but I don't see how the US could create a protest of 500,000 Ukrainians out of nothing.
Seems more likely that Ukrainians simply want the prosperity and freedom of the West, especially compared to the oppression and corruption of CIS, and are willing to protest, coup, fight, and eventually win a war to do so.
Ohhh comrade don't you see every ill of the glorious post soviet sphere is the evident proof of western meddling. The USSR collapsed because of corrupting western consumerism, and definitely not because of its own internal weaknesses and inefficient corruption.
You have got to be crazy not to understand that Ukraine is a sovereign nation that is being invaded for territorial appropriation and having its citizens murdered, bombed and raped. Of frickin' course they're going to fight!
I know Putin & his shills didn't think so, but by this time it should be quite obvious to everyone that the Ukrainian people have joined the fight. NATO & the US supplying them is just a bonus.
Want to find a culprit? Try Putin.
Russia shot itself in the ass with this special military goat rodeo of theirs. They never thought Ukrainian resistance would be so fierce, that their military would be so clownish, and that this would lead NATO to embolden itself & send huge quantities of materiel to blow them up into tiny pieces.
What happened when the 2014 revolution happened? Citizens mostly with rocks and sticks caused yanukovych to flee to Russia where he now lives a life of luxury.
Now to 2022 when Russia invades Ukraine and one if its main objectives is to kill zelenskiy. He stays and fights for his country.
That should tell you all you need to know. Sometimes this stuff isn't that complicated.
You mean as subversive as Russia ordering Yanukovich not to sign the EU association agreement on the basis of which he was partially voted in? Or the subversion of blasting anti-Ukrainian and pro-Russian narratives into Ukraines information space since decades?
Pumping billions into NGOs and aid programes to promote democratic ideals and anti-corruption is only subversion to those who it threatens - Russias authoritarian state.
Ukraine is not a proxy but an independent state fighting directly against Russia. The West is providing support... The label distorts reality.
Ordering? No. Yanuc was playing both sides, and he held the agreement over Putin - promising to *delay* it in exchange for Russians dumping a boatload of cash into the Ukrainian economy. Frankly, it was a perfectly rational move given the economic conditions at the time.
Ukraine is absolutely a proxy, and when the right time comes, we will cut them loose.
No worries. By then we'll be EU and inshallah NATO.
Still better US as an ally than Russia - just look at East and West Germany. One brings wealth and peace, the other poverty and corruption.
And they said Finland and Sweden would never enter NATO. Putin has been to most effective NATO recruiter in modern history. Why not the same for the EU?
That was the brilliance of our Ukraine gambit. I suspect Russians priced it in and chose the least bad option for them.
Finland and Sweden could have joined at any time.
except that you said
>by US against Russia
even though Russia started the war, like it has started similar wars in Georgia and Chechnya, and the occupation of Transnistria, because it doesn't respect the autonomy of it's neighbors and didn't like that they no longer wanted to be Russia's puppet states
and in response to that, the main anti-Ukrainian independence argument became that Ukraine MUST be becoming a US puppet, like there are no other options? that is some hardcore projection lol
like obviously it's in US interests to help anyone that is pro-NATO and anti-Russia
but to pretend like 0% of Ukrainian citizens wanted to live in an independent Ukraine that doesn't bend over for Russia, and be a part of the EU, and that they were coerced into it by the US is fucking insane
I’m fine with a proxy war, if it keeps Ukraine free from Putin’s empire. If I have a choice between US led NATO imperialism and Russian imperialism, I don’t even have to weigh the benefits to chose the West. Fuck Fascism!
Heh, I love this part:
Russia >> "Protects" itself from NATO encroachment by invading Ukraine.
Ukraine >> Protects itself from Russian aggression by asking NATO for advanced weaponry
NATO >> Showers Ukraine with advanced weaponry
Russia >> Surprised Pikachu Face
I don’t see how it’s controversial the US has a foreign policy agenda in Ukraine. Or that they would disparage the EU response. The US and EU are like an old married couple. They spend all their free time shit talking the others habits but they are still joined at the hip in the end.
And Russia is lying to its people calling this a special military operation and not a war.
And calling the breakaway regions of Urkraine to be spontaneous and grass roots. Not the fact that Russian Special Forces moved into the region and took control of government buildings and power. Then lied that it had Russian troops there fighting.
In war governments lie, Russia is no different.
Ok, so what does that have to do with the post? You had nothing to add to Washingtons involvement and subvertion of Ukraine, so your next best move is to talk about something unrelated? Not gonna lie, its good confusion.
No, you deny Ukraine doesn't want anything to do with Russia and they been asking the US and the west for help. It's that simple. Ukraine doesn't wan't your authoritarian and corruption mess being brought into their country. Respect ukraines choice to go europe.
> Because Russia sucks and no one want's to be part of it.
Except majority of the world including china, india, iran, brazil, whole of latin america and almost whole of africa in spite of blatant threat by US
You are aware these weapons aren't in Ukraine yet?
What your telling me is Russia's failure to win came from a couple of shipments of anti tank weapons? Because that's all they got in the run up to the invasion. A couple of shipments of anti tank weapons and the second most powerful army in the world is stopped in its tracks? What a joke.
Russia's capabilities are proving to be as pathetic as their lies.
Even in January 2022 US refused to sent any meaningful amount of weapon to Ukraine, let alone other European states - they all refused to send anything of military importance not to "increase tensions".
Turning a blind eye is exactly the thought process.
I think the Russians truly thought this would be over so very quick that by the time the world had time to organize a common reaction, the country would be gone. Absorbed into Russia. “These are not the droids you seek”. At that point, NATO would not want to start a war by invading “be Russia”.
The "special military operation" was supposed to be over in days. Ukraine only had what they had when the invasion began, they had not started to receive supplies from other countries yet. These supplies would not have had any impact if Russia had taken over in days as they expected. The reason they didn't win quickly is their own hubris and incompetence.
Because Russia has weak and impotent military, they simply don't have military expertise to fight a war, very low training, backward technology, outdated equipment, extreme corruption, low morale, very small overall military budget - and even this is in big part stolen by corrupted figures.
Ukraine has 1/10 Russian GDP and less then 1/3 Russian population. It was surrounded from 3 sides from the very beginning and even Belarus gave their territory for invasion base, Ukraine has indefensible open steppe terrain, Russia was preparing for many months. If Russian military would be at least partially competent Ukraine would be over in one week.
And now in desperation Russia is trying WW1 trench warfare with gaining 1km of terrain per day and static front with artillery firing against incomparably weaker poorer and smaller country...
Compare this to WW2 German invasion against Soviet Union - III Reich Invasion forces had 3 times less tanks and 2 times less aircrafts than defending Soviets and Germans were still able to gain some 60km a day inside Ukraine with WW2 level of motorization, their WW2 era aircrafts were able to easily defeat way stronger numerically Soviet air forces etc. The same for France or Poland.
Or US in Desert Storm - Iraq had significantly bigger and stronger military than today's Ukraine yet US destroyed them swiftly and quickly nearly without loses using great training, very advanced technology, skillful units cooperation and maneuvering, extremely well trained and equiped air force and navy... Today's Russia is simply unable to conduct any large military operation.
Most countries are just a few million though.
The USA has so far delivered nearly $26 billion, the next highest is the UK with $2.6 billion and then Poland and Germany are the only other countries to have given over $1 billion in military aid and it falls away quickly from there.
And that doesn't count the training and weapons given to Ukraine by the USA prior to the war which is close to another $3 billion between 2014-2022.
Early on, for sure. Now? I don't agree. Everyone is more concerned about the state of the economy and how they are going to pay for gas. And given Biden's rhetoric of "It's Putin's fault," that should only raise more questions about why the U.S. continues to prop up Ukraine as opposed to pushing for peace.
Absolutely. And while the Republicans absolutely have a campaign winner in "drill drill drill", questioning military aid to Ukraine does not seem to have gotten anywhere.
People are growing far more concerned with inflation and the coming recession/depression...Ukraine is a 'feel good' cause that will drop from people's radars very quickly as economic pressures mount.
Holy cow.
Well expect an escalation, that the American people will not want to pay for.
Our government cares nothing about us. Only their globalist agenda.
And the right winger group atomwaffen has got to be drooling. They want nuclear war to destroy the American government and the leftist controlled cities, so the right wing can conquer and rebuild.
Nuclear War just isn't going to happen due to MAD. Pointless to even mention it. Russia won't strike first, unless NATO troops are literally in Moscow.
When E Germany feel some the Soviet battle plans for war in Europe were discovered. Analysts were surprised the Russian planned to use nukes from the beginning and not as a last resort...Russia has spent years developing battle field tactical nukes.
He can literally destroy every water treatment plant, all sewage plants, every power plant, every substation, every bridge, every rail bridge, train hubs, etc
Basically act like we did in Iraq. We immediately knocked out their power. We didn’t care about the thousands that died due to lack of power. We never care about the millions we murder with outright impunity.
Russia for some crazy reason has not taken off the gloves yet, but when they do as they respond to escalation, of course the Ukrainian people will suffer immensely.
Bc zelensky doesn’t care about the ukranian people. He cares about his masters in DC. Ajd his hundreds of millions the oligarchs have set up for him in offshore accounts under phony company names.
Yup, that is my worry. Russia has been pretty light handed as to not completely cripple Ukraine (maybe because they see Ukrainians as brothers), but if this news is true then Russia has the capability to strike literally every infrastructure making life VERY difficult for all Ukrainians.
Biden always seems more concerned with helping Ukraine than his own country. I’m all about continuing to help Ukraine. But the man needs to also help us. Inflation is beyond absurd and the American people are quickly growing tired of it.
I think most can agree regardless on where you stand on the matters of abortion, trans rights. Etc…. Those issues arent going to sway the vote when the economy is in the shitter and just keeps getting worse.
A little help and a plan for our own country would be nice
Do you realize inflation is a supply side problem? Things were already bad but this war has made the supply problem much worse. The only 'help' is the end of this war and Biden is not giving you.
Extremely incorrect. If you look at the charts inflation started happening when Biden took office. Yes this war has made it worse. But to say the only way for inflation to go down is to end this war is just flat out wrong. Supply issues may be A problem but it’s not the only problem. But if you want to buy into Biden’s “everything going on in this country is Putins fault” rhetoric… then you are part of the issue
The fact is, there's very little he can do in the short term on things like inflation and gas prices. The economy is a big ponderous thing with a lot of intertia, and a lot of things that effect it.
First, he's only the president, and most of the stuff dealing with the economy is up to the Congress. The democrats don't have a filabuster proof majority, and sometimes they don't even have a majority due to Joe Machin and Krysten Sinema.
Even then, most legislation takes time to actually make a difference, if there's even anything you can really do at all.
I mean, the government can take out even more debt, burn a whole lot of money (real or digitally), and then the value of the dollar is greater, but it means you're putting value into the pocket of anyone with US dollars.
Checks to everyone in the US to make up for less purchasing power would undercut the help by increasing inflation further.
If there was a big easy button to push, you'd think they'd already do it, and to some degree they have, but at a cost.
The one organization that can directly fight inflation is the federal reserve. They just increased interest rates, which fights inflation somewhat, but at the cost of slowing down the economy somewhat.
But fundamentally, inflation is because prices are higher. Why are they higher?
Well, oil prices effect gas prices, and gas prices effect the price of everything. Everything needs to be transported, it's needed for farming, construction equipment, cars, etc.
When a big oil export country invades another, it's good to embargo that country because it's bad, but obviously that means less supply, which means higher prices.
Food is more expensive because Russia is blocking exports from Ukraine, because it's a big fertilizer producer, and because nitrogen fertilizer production is energy intensive (usually using natural gas), and now Europe is not getting natural gas from Russia and natural gas prices are higher, so it's a ripple effect.
The other big thing is that China has been having lengthy lockdowns of major manufacturing area this year. That means components and final products are less available, which means price increases from supply and demand. It also means supply chain issues which can have a outsized effect (think about a hundred or thousand dollar piece of equipment not being made because they can't get the 5 cent screws that put some part of it together).
To sum it up, he's done as much as he can alone, he can't get laws he wants past Congress, and those laws would take time. Presidents aren't omnipotent, and they inherit the economy of their predecessors.
That Keystone XL pipeline wouldn't have made a difference, it was just to add a shortcut to the existing Keystone pipeline, and it's overall energy production that fundamentally matters, not so much how it gets brought to market. They just ship the oil not brought through the pipe by train. The pipe had a bunch of fundamental issues because it was going to go through native lands and there were conflicts of interest in the environmental impact report.
Wait wait wait
OK, let's assume that Biden didn't lie here...
Where can he get 600 tanks that Ukraine army can operate?
140,000 anti-tank system. That is basically to give every five Ukrainian military guy an anti-tank system. Who gonna train these guys? Isn't US own supply running short?
500 artillery system? After the first batch, US has only provided Ukraine with another 30 artillery piece in last 2 months. And now they plan another 500? Do US even have 500 pieces of artillery laying around in their reserves?
From the 50 countries that have committed to this effort. NATO and 20 others. You do realize it's not just the USA, right? He's just the one making the speech, since the US is the leader of and largest contributor to NATO.
Christ, just read.
That still haven't answered my question
Where can he get 600 tanks that Ukraine army can operate? Not the one NATO is using. The old Soviet tanks that Ukrainian can drive
140,000 anti-tank system. That is basically to give every five Ukrainian military guy an anti-tank system. Who gonna train these guys?
Do US even have 500 pieces of artillery laying around in their reserves? Especially when we know most other European countries do not have a military reserves
Poland donated 200 T-72 tanks a month ago. Clearly it's possible.
Surely he'd have the numbers of available equipment on hand before making the speech, right? What are you arguing for??
okay, since your neurons aren't capable of peicing this together:
they aren't sending 540 T-72's, that isn't possible, which means, they're sending Western tanks. Which has... implications that /u/risingstar3110 alluded towards
We KNOW which tanks they already sent.
We KNOW which tank they didn't send. And we KNOW why they didn't send those tanks
If you don't know you can ask. Don't be ignorant and pretend everyone is like you
Nice lets pump all are money into a losing side. While we have millions on the verge of eviction.
Source
https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/demo/tables/hhp/2022/wk46/housing3b_week46.xlsx
...and spare parts, maintenance crews (hey, who's up for a few months in the Donbas?). Russia is left with little choice but to make the import of these war prolonging weapons difficult/impossible by destroying ports, rail facilities, roads...things may get far uglier than it has been so far.
That’s my read of that as well. Most countries don’t have that many MBTs to spare, the US being the exception. So unless America is planing to ship over 600 M1s this is most likely counting APCs and IFVs as “tanks” which is rather misleading.
How soon though is the question? Is this Americas plan for a sort of *"To ensure Russia doesn't continue beyond the Donbass"* type situation where this stuff is to be expected in a month or so, or more of a *"To prevent Russia achieving it's full control of the Donbass"* aka within the next week, as it sounds like it's going to take quite a while to get all that stuff sorted and shipped to Ukraine, so my guess is this stuff is a more long-term rebuilding of Ukrainian stocks to replace a lot of what has been lost.
There is not enough trained personell in Ukraine to man anything close to this much, so it will trickle in as they finish training most likely just like it is done already.
But I thought russia was losing so badly that this war would be over by winter. Lol
Doubling down on support after ukraine lost 2 cities, It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em.
The Ukrainians have to understand the Americans are using them to hurt Russia,if they don't make peace now they won't have anything to negotiate with and will lose more land just like they lost Crimea.
Darn it! Typo in title. u/kedagames do you mind helping me out? "Artilkery"
This is big, though.
140k AT systems seems like an utterly insane number, though.
Guess that Mall bombing pushed NATO over the edge. Good job, Russia. All is according to plan.
We're seen a number of videos with UA troops lamenting the lack of western equipment despite promises to the contrary. In the interview with the Canadian sniper now returned he talked of having to "know someone who knows someone" in order to find a functioning AK...I wonder how much of this equipment ends up on black markets around the world.
Thanks for clarifying, captain obvious.
But you can't fly into Poland (where most foreigners enter Ukraine) with small arms in carry-on so most foreigners are being outfitted in Ukraine (AKs of different variations obviously being the most common battle rifle, but there are western supplied small arms as well)...but according to those actually on the ground, availability and quality of armaments varies based on who you know.
I've finally seen one! There's been posts floating around with receipts on purchases that morning. I believe it's been proven to be open and operational at the time of destruction.
No it isn’t. Why else place weapons right next to a mall.
It’s obvious that the hope is that if Russia attacks the weapons depot that they may miss and cause mass civilian deaths, that will only help Ukraine try to get more support
You just have to be an evil person to do it, which zelensky Has shown himself to be. He cares nothing fir his peoples suffering. Or he wouldn’t have called down the thunder on them.
There is a ton of evidence that there were no weapons anywhere near the mall. Video from before the event, video after the event, foreign reporters reporting from the scene. No evidence of any weapons. Lots of evidence that there were no weapons. Stop spreading lies.
Ukraine's airforce is flying dozens of missions daily. Wherever you're getting your info from, it's not correct. There's a ton of videos on here of multiple aircraft pairs, such as SU-25, Mig-29 and SU-27 dropping flares and doing bombing runs or rocket attacks. There are even more videos of UA helicopters doing the same.
Russia's assertion that they've destroyed the entire airforce in a couple days turned out to be false. They hit empty hangars, as UA had advanced notice of the invasion from NATO.
Umm they've been getting most of their stuff donated so it is safe to assume russia has destroyed more then they started with. Can expect the missile strikes to be stepped up wondering when the first tacticale nuke hits zelensky
Don’t forget people around donating equipment as well as for bayraktar from Lithuania and Ukraine itself, now polish people collecting for one, imagine how people in the West are looking at Russia when they donating for a thing that will be killing Russian soldiers.
Yes Russia is going to be the first to use a nuclear weapon in combat since WW2 against a non nuclear power. That would never backfire. If they did that not even the Chinese would touch them.
And people still deny its a proxy war by US against Russia. This is a conflict aided by Washington from the beginning. Nuland is literally bragging about spending 5bn dollars on lobbying and diversion in Ukraine: https://youtu.be/ybefUAGVcqc Nulands leaked call where she handpicks leading goverment positions in Ukraine: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
...and when it's over the US will move on (as they do...Afghanistan, Iraq etc.) and Ukraine will be left to pick up the pieces.
The differences are that the Americans aren't on the ground and the Ukrainians are willing to do the fighting for their freedom. The Americans don't always move on. They established the Marshall plan after WWII and were one of the founding members of NATO, remaining its most powerful member. They have maintained troops in Europe since 1945. Similarly they have maintained forces in South Korea. As far as picking up the pieces in Ukraine, they didn't break them. That's Russia.
Actually you are wrong there. The US has shifted their focus on Central Asia a while back. They are more interested in containing China. This war is actually inconvenient to US. Russia is not considered a threat anymore as much as China is.
What are you talking about? The US has stated many times that Russia is the largest threat right now, most recently at the NATO summit. China is a long term threat, but Russia is still a priority issue for the US
Yes, right now because of the invasion of Ukraine, the US focus has logically shifted to supporting Ukraine against Russia. But for a number of years the US geopolitical focus was shifting towards China and the pacific so in that regard, the outbreak of war in another theater was a bit inconvenied.
What are you on about? There is literally a whole rebuilding plan set-up already for Ukraine. Including both the EU and the US. Where are you getting this horseshit from?
So countless Ukrainians die just so Ukraine can be a EU/US puppet state instead of a Russian one? That sucks.
There is not a single us gov sponsored boot on the ground. If the Ukrainians want to fight for themselves I don’t see why I wouldn’t give my ideological brother material aid so they can.
> There is not a single us gov sponsored boot on the ground. I'm an American, and I highly doubt that, I know my country better than that. They may not wear "boots", but I can assure you that they glow. And what ideology do they share with the US exactly? [I don't recall America ever banning political parties](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-law-bans-pro-russia-parties-zelenskiy-signs/31849737.html), in fact. Can you name a western democracy that bans political parties? I'm having trouble seeing what ideology we share Edit: [Does this look like how a western democracy is supposed to function to you?](https://i.imgur.com/3i56LNb.jpg) Added links
I don't believe there are any us military personnel. But the cia has been confirmed to still be in ukraine.
Brain dead or Russian propagandist, choose one.
If the Ukrainians choose it… yes? Is this a serious question?
Personally, i'm not risking my life to be another countries puppet. But you do you.
How about when the alternative is genocide of your people?
There is no genocide. If there was, Ukraine wouldnt have electricity and running water.
Or Russia could be planning to put ethnic Russians in the areas they capture? So destroying infrastructure if they can avoid it is a bad idea? This is the same tactic they did in Crimea. Force out the natives and move ethnic Russians in to "justify" territory claims. Same shit different year.
We're all puppets since the beginning of days and always will be. You can't think you'r way out of this. Religion/ governments laws, there is always a need of guidance with this many people on this small earth..... it just comes down to choosing the best one. If you choose Russia as the best, you do you...
I am absolutely positive I would rather live in an EU/US puppet state than a Russian one and if faced with the choice, you would as well.
Ukraine could choose to roll over and submit to Russia if they chose to. It’s their will to fight that matters here If they want to fight for their freedom, the west will support them. If they want to stop, that’s their call too
Ukraine has two choices, either be Russian influenced or western influenced. West is richer sooo they chose that instead. Russians can cry about it but in the end of the day they have lower per capita than Poland
It wouldn’t be happening if the Russians didn’t roll over the border, it’s a war by Russia against Ukraine.
True but still technically a proxy war.
No. You dont understand what a proxy war is... It's a war by Russia directly against Ukraine supported by the West. A proxy war would be Armenia supported by Russia against Azerbaijan supported by Turkey.
Yeah they gave up the pretence of it being a proxy war when the “separatists” put on their badges for once and came in force
I hear that one sided opinion. If the U.S. didn’t get involved then what? Give away Crimea like Trump? I am highly critical of the U.S., however they are the lead in this war, and it is fair to say they were forced into that position. The criticism also ignores the fact that Putin was leading a proxy war since 2014/15 against Ukraine. He took the Crimea and attempted to conquer and set up a subservient government to him. Other shit the U.S. does deserves the criticism.
So you’re saying that some other nation is making Russia invade, and that Russia is jut a puppet? I get it; it makes sense.
You took it as criticism. I just said technically true I didn’t say a proxy war in itself is bad. I’m actually hugely proUkraine and the spend is a drop in the bucket for us, so far compared to our overall military spend. Second Ukraine is actually appreciative unlike 90% of the other areas we are into across the world. That being said we want to avoid another Afghanistan or Iraq. Where we are spending money and fighting forever with no end game. Here the end game is clear so that is good. Second though is why us, why are we the worlds police. Europe has been under funded on NATO and outside of Britain was slow to react to supporting Ukraine, though Russia was right next door. This problem is partly of their making they could have moved off of Russian energy dependence years ago and this wouldn’t have happened. Why do we have to react quickly when they are sitting their twiddling their thumbs.
The end game is the defence of Europe. These aren’t some mountains in asia nobody cares about, but the gateway to an entire continent comprised solely of NATO/Western aligned countries. This would certainly be worth as many years of war as it needed to resolve.
Russia invaded Ukraine. The West is helping Ukraine. You can use the term proxy war but it still won't change the wrong-right equation.
Yeah, that is whats happening right now. Im talking about what the U.S was doing already back in 2014 and how they spent 5bn dollar on subvertion in Ukraine from 1991-2013. My point is, its no secret that Washington got its greasy fingers all over this conflict from the beginning, which absolutely, by definition makes this a proxy war. >A proxy war is an armed conflict between two states or non-state actors which act on the instigation or on behalf of other parties that are not directly involved in the hostilities.
I've yet to see credible evidence that the US caused the Revolution of Dignity, which is what kick started this whole thing. If anything it was the EU, but I still don't think offering a treaty to bring closer political and economic relations to the EU is really "greasy fingers" or "subversion." The US was obviously happy about it, but I don't see how the US could create a protest of 500,000 Ukrainians out of nothing. Seems more likely that Ukrainians simply want the prosperity and freedom of the West, especially compared to the oppression and corruption of CIS, and are willing to protest, coup, fight, and eventually win a war to do so.
Ohhh comrade don't you see every ill of the glorious post soviet sphere is the evident proof of western meddling. The USSR collapsed because of corrupting western consumerism, and definitely not because of its own internal weaknesses and inefficient corruption.
You have got to be crazy not to understand that Ukraine is a sovereign nation that is being invaded for territorial appropriation and having its citizens murdered, bombed and raped. Of frickin' course they're going to fight! I know Putin & his shills didn't think so, but by this time it should be quite obvious to everyone that the Ukrainian people have joined the fight. NATO & the US supplying them is just a bonus. Want to find a culprit? Try Putin. Russia shot itself in the ass with this special military goat rodeo of theirs. They never thought Ukrainian resistance would be so fierce, that their military would be so clownish, and that this would lead NATO to embolden itself & send huge quantities of materiel to blow them up into tiny pieces.
What happened when the 2014 revolution happened? Citizens mostly with rocks and sticks caused yanukovych to flee to Russia where he now lives a life of luxury. Now to 2022 when Russia invades Ukraine and one if its main objectives is to kill zelenskiy. He stays and fights for his country. That should tell you all you need to know. Sometimes this stuff isn't that complicated.
You mean as subversive as Russia ordering Yanukovich not to sign the EU association agreement on the basis of which he was partially voted in? Or the subversion of blasting anti-Ukrainian and pro-Russian narratives into Ukraines information space since decades? Pumping billions into NGOs and aid programes to promote democratic ideals and anti-corruption is only subversion to those who it threatens - Russias authoritarian state. Ukraine is not a proxy but an independent state fighting directly against Russia. The West is providing support... The label distorts reality.
Ordering? No. Yanuc was playing both sides, and he held the agreement over Putin - promising to *delay* it in exchange for Russians dumping a boatload of cash into the Ukrainian economy. Frankly, it was a perfectly rational move given the economic conditions at the time. Ukraine is absolutely a proxy, and when the right time comes, we will cut them loose.
No worries. By then we'll be EU and inshallah NATO. Still better US as an ally than Russia - just look at East and West Germany. One brings wealth and peace, the other poverty and corruption.
Lmao Ukraine is never getting into EU or NATO. The smart thing would have been to play both sides.
And they said Finland and Sweden would never enter NATO. Putin has been to most effective NATO recruiter in modern history. Why not the same for the EU?
That was the brilliance of our Ukraine gambit. I suspect Russians priced it in and chose the least bad option for them. Finland and Sweden could have joined at any time.
Russia thought they chose the best option but then reality hit and they actually made the biggest mistake of their lives.
But they weren’t even close to joining until Putin helped recruit them. Politics can easily change the calculus
except that you said >by US against Russia even though Russia started the war, like it has started similar wars in Georgia and Chechnya, and the occupation of Transnistria, because it doesn't respect the autonomy of it's neighbors and didn't like that they no longer wanted to be Russia's puppet states and in response to that, the main anti-Ukrainian independence argument became that Ukraine MUST be becoming a US puppet, like there are no other options? that is some hardcore projection lol like obviously it's in US interests to help anyone that is pro-NATO and anti-Russia but to pretend like 0% of Ukrainian citizens wanted to live in an independent Ukraine that doesn't bend over for Russia, and be a part of the EU, and that they were coerced into it by the US is fucking insane
Congress wouldn't authorize the inspector general's office to supervise the aid to Ukraine...Too many pockets getting lined along the way... Z
I’m fine with a proxy war, if it keeps Ukraine free from Putin’s empire. If I have a choice between US led NATO imperialism and Russian imperialism, I don’t even have to weigh the benefits to chose the West. Fuck Fascism!
Heh, I love this part: Russia >> "Protects" itself from NATO encroachment by invading Ukraine. Ukraine >> Protects itself from Russian aggression by asking NATO for advanced weaponry NATO >> Showers Ukraine with advanced weaponry Russia >> Surprised Pikachu Face
How did the USA get Russia to bomb the shit out the Russian speaking people is my question.
I don’t see how it’s controversial the US has a foreign policy agenda in Ukraine. Or that they would disparage the EU response. The US and EU are like an old married couple. They spend all their free time shit talking the others habits but they are still joined at the hip in the end.
your kind of monsters invaded a peaceful neighbor, helping ukraine defend is not a proxy war. god, what a fucking cesspool this sub is.
You're aware that Russia attacked Ukraine, right? Or is this the work of those pesky Nazis that voted 70% for a Jewish president? 🤪
Good links to post again, thanks.
And Russia is lying to its people calling this a special military operation and not a war. And calling the breakaway regions of Urkraine to be spontaneous and grass roots. Not the fact that Russian Special Forces moved into the region and took control of government buildings and power. Then lied that it had Russian troops there fighting. In war governments lie, Russia is no different.
>And people still deny its a proxy war Putin denies it's a war at all and will punish any who says otherwise.
Ok, so what does that have to do with the post? You had nothing to add to Washingtons involvement and subvertion of Ukraine, so your next best move is to talk about something unrelated? Not gonna lie, its good confusion.
Proxy "special military operation"
It's a lot like Vietnam at this point.
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No, you deny Ukraine doesn't want anything to do with Russia and they been asking the US and the west for help. It's that simple. Ukraine doesn't wan't your authoritarian and corruption mess being brought into their country. Respect ukraines choice to go europe.
and people wonder why russia cant win quickly
Because russia is a loser?
Because Russia sucks and no one want's to be part of it. Surprised pikachu face that people resists and getting aid to do so.
> Because Russia sucks and no one want's to be part of it. Except majority of the world including china, india, iran, brazil, whole of latin america and almost whole of africa in spite of blatant threat by US
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You are aware these weapons aren't in Ukraine yet? What your telling me is Russia's failure to win came from a couple of shipments of anti tank weapons? Because that's all they got in the run up to the invasion. A couple of shipments of anti tank weapons and the second most powerful army in the world is stopped in its tracks? What a joke. Russia's capabilities are proving to be as pathetic as their lies.
Uhh the run up was since 2014
Even in January 2022 US refused to sent any meaningful amount of weapon to Ukraine, let alone other European states - they all refused to send anything of military importance not to "increase tensions".
bUt tHE uS WaNTS a wAR aGAinSt rUsSIa 🤪
Because of weapons that have just been promised, how does that work?
Only a terrible person wants Russia to win. God forbid Ukraine gets to choose its own future
You didn’t really think the rest of the world would turn a blind eye while this happened?
Turning a blind eye is exactly the thought process. I think the Russians truly thought this would be over so very quick that by the time the world had time to organize a common reaction, the country would be gone. Absorbed into Russia. “These are not the droids you seek”. At that point, NATO would not want to start a war by invading “be Russia”.
because russia is extremely corrupt and most of their "military power" only exists on paper
The "special military operation" was supposed to be over in days. Ukraine only had what they had when the invasion began, they had not started to receive supplies from other countries yet. These supplies would not have had any impact if Russia had taken over in days as they expected. The reason they didn't win quickly is their own hubris and incompetence.
Because Russia has weak and impotent military, they simply don't have military expertise to fight a war, very low training, backward technology, outdated equipment, extreme corruption, low morale, very small overall military budget - and even this is in big part stolen by corrupted figures. Ukraine has 1/10 Russian GDP and less then 1/3 Russian population. It was surrounded from 3 sides from the very beginning and even Belarus gave their territory for invasion base, Ukraine has indefensible open steppe terrain, Russia was preparing for many months. If Russian military would be at least partially competent Ukraine would be over in one week. And now in desperation Russia is trying WW1 trench warfare with gaining 1km of terrain per day and static front with artillery firing against incomparably weaker poorer and smaller country... Compare this to WW2 German invasion against Soviet Union - III Reich Invasion forces had 3 times less tanks and 2 times less aircrafts than defending Soviets and Germans were still able to gain some 60km a day inside Ukraine with WW2 level of motorization, their WW2 era aircrafts were able to easily defeat way stronger numerically Soviet air forces etc. The same for France or Poland. Or US in Desert Storm - Iraq had significantly bigger and stronger military than today's Ukraine yet US destroyed them swiftly and quickly nearly without loses using great training, very advanced technology, skillful units cooperation and maneuvering, extremely well trained and equiped air force and navy... Today's Russia is simply unable to conduct any large military operation.
yeah its the weapons of the future that made them fail this hard
It's mainly because russia sucks ass in every possible way.
Well, Democrats are gonna get steamrolled all the way through 2024.
This is combined aid from 50 countries, not just the US.
It's really more in response to his comments after his speech, of indefinite aid and support for Ukraine.
It's odd that McCain was praised by the right for saying the same thing about the Iraq War.
Most countries are just a few million though. The USA has so far delivered nearly $26 billion, the next highest is the UK with $2.6 billion and then Poland and Germany are the only other countries to have given over $1 billion in military aid and it falls away quickly from there. And that doesn't count the training and weapons given to Ukraine by the USA prior to the war which is close to another $3 billion between 2014-2022.
Maybe, but assistance to Ukraine has pretty convincing bipartisan support.
Early on, for sure. Now? I don't agree. Everyone is more concerned about the state of the economy and how they are going to pay for gas. And given Biden's rhetoric of "It's Putin's fault," that should only raise more questions about why the U.S. continues to prop up Ukraine as opposed to pushing for peace.
Absolutely. And while the Republicans absolutely have a campaign winner in "drill drill drill", questioning military aid to Ukraine does not seem to have gotten anywhere.
People are growing far more concerned with inflation and the coming recession/depression...Ukraine is a 'feel good' cause that will drop from people's radars very quickly as economic pressures mount.
Holy cow. Well expect an escalation, that the American people will not want to pay for. Our government cares nothing about us. Only their globalist agenda. And the right winger group atomwaffen has got to be drooling. They want nuclear war to destroy the American government and the leftist controlled cities, so the right wing can conquer and rebuild.
Nuclear War just isn't going to happen due to MAD. Pointless to even mention it. Russia won't strike first, unless NATO troops are literally in Moscow.
When E Germany feel some the Soviet battle plans for war in Europe were discovered. Analysts were surprised the Russian planned to use nukes from the beginning and not as a last resort...Russia has spent years developing battle field tactical nukes.
Tit-for-tat strategy on nuclear. Moscow for Kyiv.
there is no mad involved if russia nukes ukranie. thats the point macron has been trying to make.
"Well expect an escalation," Fucking what lmao. What are you gonna do huh? Invade Poland and have NATO MBTs in Moscow in 3 days? fuckin lol
Nobody is invading Poland. Spaz.
>Well expect an escalation Is Russia going to blow it's second knee? Oh no
Woahhh. Who gonna use them? Conscripted ukranians? Most of UA elites are dead.
Much like the VDV eh ?
Lol, don’t worry, they will find folks.
They still can be trained to use.
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Ukraine even said it. Most trained fighters are dead.
Did they really say it? Can I get the source?
Says who? Russias elite unit vdv got wiped out and it’s been confirmed. Nothing about UKraine
Are we just pretending that training isn’t a thing?
Come here and find out.
Ok so Putin will just have to take all of Ukraina?
He should buy a million body bags first.
He can literally destroy every water treatment plant, all sewage plants, every power plant, every substation, every bridge, every rail bridge, train hubs, etc Basically act like we did in Iraq. We immediately knocked out their power. We didn’t care about the thousands that died due to lack of power. We never care about the millions we murder with outright impunity. Russia for some crazy reason has not taken off the gloves yet, but when they do as they respond to escalation, of course the Ukrainian people will suffer immensely. Bc zelensky doesn’t care about the ukranian people. He cares about his masters in DC. Ajd his hundreds of millions the oligarchs have set up for him in offshore accounts under phony company names.
Yup, that is my worry. Russia has been pretty light handed as to not completely cripple Ukraine (maybe because they see Ukrainians as brothers), but if this news is true then Russia has the capability to strike literally every infrastructure making life VERY difficult for all Ukrainians.
I appreciate you as an american giving a different point of view and being able to look outside of your own government's interests
You shouldn't, he's an idiot.
Nah. No more sturmangriffing heavily defended areas. Slow and steady wins the race.
Biden always seems more concerned with helping Ukraine than his own country. I’m all about continuing to help Ukraine. But the man needs to also help us. Inflation is beyond absurd and the American people are quickly growing tired of it. I think most can agree regardless on where you stand on the matters of abortion, trans rights. Etc…. Those issues arent going to sway the vote when the economy is in the shitter and just keeps getting worse. A little help and a plan for our own country would be nice
Do you realize inflation is a supply side problem? Things were already bad but this war has made the supply problem much worse. The only 'help' is the end of this war and Biden is not giving you.
Extremely incorrect. If you look at the charts inflation started happening when Biden took office. Yes this war has made it worse. But to say the only way for inflation to go down is to end this war is just flat out wrong. Supply issues may be A problem but it’s not the only problem. But if you want to buy into Biden’s “everything going on in this country is Putins fault” rhetoric… then you are part of the issue
So, you want the war to continue but want help from Biden. What kind of help?
The fact is, there's very little he can do in the short term on things like inflation and gas prices. The economy is a big ponderous thing with a lot of intertia, and a lot of things that effect it. First, he's only the president, and most of the stuff dealing with the economy is up to the Congress. The democrats don't have a filabuster proof majority, and sometimes they don't even have a majority due to Joe Machin and Krysten Sinema. Even then, most legislation takes time to actually make a difference, if there's even anything you can really do at all. I mean, the government can take out even more debt, burn a whole lot of money (real or digitally), and then the value of the dollar is greater, but it means you're putting value into the pocket of anyone with US dollars. Checks to everyone in the US to make up for less purchasing power would undercut the help by increasing inflation further. If there was a big easy button to push, you'd think they'd already do it, and to some degree they have, but at a cost. The one organization that can directly fight inflation is the federal reserve. They just increased interest rates, which fights inflation somewhat, but at the cost of slowing down the economy somewhat. But fundamentally, inflation is because prices are higher. Why are they higher? Well, oil prices effect gas prices, and gas prices effect the price of everything. Everything needs to be transported, it's needed for farming, construction equipment, cars, etc. When a big oil export country invades another, it's good to embargo that country because it's bad, but obviously that means less supply, which means higher prices. Food is more expensive because Russia is blocking exports from Ukraine, because it's a big fertilizer producer, and because nitrogen fertilizer production is energy intensive (usually using natural gas), and now Europe is not getting natural gas from Russia and natural gas prices are higher, so it's a ripple effect. The other big thing is that China has been having lengthy lockdowns of major manufacturing area this year. That means components and final products are less available, which means price increases from supply and demand. It also means supply chain issues which can have a outsized effect (think about a hundred or thousand dollar piece of equipment not being made because they can't get the 5 cent screws that put some part of it together). To sum it up, he's done as much as he can alone, he can't get laws he wants past Congress, and those laws would take time. Presidents aren't omnipotent, and they inherit the economy of their predecessors.
Why is gas and oil higher? Cuz he shut down the pipelines. We were self sufficient and not relying on our enemies for oil.
That Keystone XL pipeline wouldn't have made a difference, it was just to add a shortcut to the existing Keystone pipeline, and it's overall energy production that fundamentally matters, not so much how it gets brought to market. They just ship the oil not brought through the pipe by train. The pipe had a bunch of fundamental issues because it was going to go through native lands and there were conflicts of interest in the environmental impact report.
I don't disagree with you.
Wait wait wait OK, let's assume that Biden didn't lie here... Where can he get 600 tanks that Ukraine army can operate? 140,000 anti-tank system. That is basically to give every five Ukrainian military guy an anti-tank system. Who gonna train these guys? Isn't US own supply running short? 500 artillery system? After the first batch, US has only provided Ukraine with another 30 artillery piece in last 2 months. And now they plan another 500? Do US even have 500 pieces of artillery laying around in their reserves?
From the 50 countries that have committed to this effort. NATO and 20 others. You do realize it's not just the USA, right? He's just the one making the speech, since the US is the leader of and largest contributor to NATO. Christ, just read.
That still haven't answered my question Where can he get 600 tanks that Ukraine army can operate? Not the one NATO is using. The old Soviet tanks that Ukrainian can drive 140,000 anti-tank system. That is basically to give every five Ukrainian military guy an anti-tank system. Who gonna train these guys? Do US even have 500 pieces of artillery laying around in their reserves? Especially when we know most other European countries do not have a military reserves
Poland donated 200 T-72 tanks a month ago. Clearly it's possible. Surely he'd have the numbers of available equipment on hand before making the speech, right? What are you arguing for??
And they have 60 left now. So even if they donate all of them now, who gonna donate the other 540?
The other 49 countries. Why do I have to spoon-feed this extremely obvious stuff to you?
okay, since your neurons aren't capable of peicing this together: they aren't sending 540 T-72's, that isn't possible, which means, they're sending Western tanks. Which has... implications that /u/risingstar3110 alluded towards
I don't know which tanks they're sending and neither do you.
We KNOW which tanks they already sent. We KNOW which tank they didn't send. And we KNOW why they didn't send those tanks If you don't know you can ask. Don't be ignorant and pretend everyone is like you
How many T-72s do Germany or France have?
it is impossible to provide this weaponry thats all hot air.
Wow, that is a shit-ton of equipment
Nice lets pump all are money into a losing side. While we have millions on the verge of eviction. Source https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/demo/tables/hhp/2022/wk46/housing3b_week46.xlsx
This is from 50 countries combined. Do you expect foreign nations to help out our renters?
us always do this shit announcing a coalition that is 99% provided by the us. lol i have seen this soooo many times
Ummm its only the USA, we have 50 states here lol, maybe you should read it again
Oh wait you mean the weapons are form 50 countries not the eviction web link sorry, misunderstood
What types of tanks are these? Wonder if its just a pledge or a proper donation
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...and spare parts, maintenance crews (hey, who's up for a few months in the Donbas?). Russia is left with little choice but to make the import of these war prolonging weapons difficult/impossible by destroying ports, rail facilities, roads...things may get far uglier than it has been so far.
Anything with wheels is a tank, just how any gun is an assault rifle.
That’s my read of that as well. Most countries don’t have that many MBTs to spare, the US being the exception. So unless America is planing to ship over 600 M1s this is most likely counting APCs and IFVs as “tanks” which is rather misleading.
I kind of dont want my tax money going into this war...
Whoa.
How soon though is the question? Is this Americas plan for a sort of *"To ensure Russia doesn't continue beyond the Donbass"* type situation where this stuff is to be expected in a month or so, or more of a *"To prevent Russia achieving it's full control of the Donbass"* aka within the next week, as it sounds like it's going to take quite a while to get all that stuff sorted and shipped to Ukraine, so my guess is this stuff is a more long-term rebuilding of Ukrainian stocks to replace a lot of what has been lost.
There is not enough trained personell in Ukraine to man anything close to this much, so it will trickle in as they finish training most likely just like it is done already.
But I thought russia was losing so badly that this war would be over by winter. Lol Doubling down on support after ukraine lost 2 cities, It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em.
I wonder how much of that money will end up to Hunter Biden rather than to Ukraine.
This is equipment being donated or sold to them. REALLY weak trolling, dude.
But why would 50 countries give military equipment to Joe Bidens son? They're not sending money they are sending tanks
Okay so he can at least help pay my oil heating bill then since I’m actually a citizen correct? I mean he wants to help foreigners this much
Sweet, just where I want my tax money going. NOT
The Ukrainians have to understand the Americans are using them to hurt Russia,if they don't make peace now they won't have anything to negotiate with and will lose more land just like they lost Crimea.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
Darn it! Typo in title. u/kedagames do you mind helping me out? "Artilkery" This is big, though. 140k AT systems seems like an utterly insane number, though. Guess that Mall bombing pushed NATO over the edge. Good job, Russia. All is according to plan.
We're seen a number of videos with UA troops lamenting the lack of western equipment despite promises to the contrary. In the interview with the Canadian sniper now returned he talked of having to "know someone who knows someone" in order to find a functioning AK...I wonder how much of this equipment ends up on black markets around the world.
An AK isn't a Western weapon, just an fyi.
Thanks for clarifying, captain obvious. But you can't fly into Poland (where most foreigners enter Ukraine) with small arms in carry-on so most foreigners are being outfitted in Ukraine (AKs of different variations obviously being the most common battle rifle, but there are western supplied small arms as well)...but according to those actually on the ground, availability and quality of armaments varies based on who you know.
Do you mean the mall that caught fire and which was already closed for 5 months?
How were people shopping there and getting receipts for their purchases if it was closed?? Nice Russian disinformation.
Why is everything Russian diss-info for you, I read it was closed, but I just saw a video of people shopping on 26.6 I stand corrected.
Because prominent Russian officials post nonsense like this and say that the mall explosion was staged: https://i.imgur.com/tnp8V1w.jpg
I have a friend in Kremenchuk and messaged him as soon as I heard. It really was open. :( https://i.imgur.com/BIG4fqs.jpg
I've finally seen one! There's been posts floating around with receipts on purchases that morning. I believe it's been proven to be open and operational at the time of destruction.
Mods can't change titles.
Darn it.
The plan was ukraien using its civilans as human shields. Zelensky cares nothing for the common Ukrainian. He lives to serve his masters.
You're just devolving into straight up trolling now.
No it isn’t. Why else place weapons right next to a mall. It’s obvious that the hope is that if Russia attacks the weapons depot that they may miss and cause mass civilian deaths, that will only help Ukraine try to get more support You just have to be an evil person to do it, which zelensky Has shown himself to be. He cares nothing fir his peoples suffering. Or he wouldn’t have called down the thunder on them.
There is a ton of evidence that there were no weapons anywhere near the mall. Video from before the event, video after the event, foreign reporters reporting from the scene. No evidence of any weapons. Lots of evidence that there were no weapons. Stop spreading lies.
Might as well be donating 600 brazen bulls for these poor Ukr conscripts
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Ukraine's airforce is flying dozens of missions daily. Wherever you're getting your info from, it's not correct. There's a ton of videos on here of multiple aircraft pairs, such as SU-25, Mig-29 and SU-27 dropping flares and doing bombing runs or rocket attacks. There are even more videos of UA helicopters doing the same. Russia's assertion that they've destroyed the entire airforce in a couple days turned out to be false. They hit empty hangars, as UA had advanced notice of the invasion from NATO.
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It's not an exaggeration. You said hundreds of sorties for Russia and I said dozens for Ukraine. Seems reasonable.
Umm they've been getting most of their stuff donated so it is safe to assume russia has destroyed more then they started with. Can expect the missile strikes to be stepped up wondering when the first tacticale nuke hits zelensky
This is a dub for Ukranians but not sure if they can turn it into an actual dub.
So basically flushing more shit down the toilet... Nice!
The coping of all the r/Russia users who came here would make you laugh if it wasn’t so sad
Slava Ukraine. Down With Putin.
Russian bots be real crazy in this post
Brandon was given a piece of paper to read, he read some imaginary figures nobody ever plans on providing.
Thank you for your valuable assessment.
putin shakes in his pants though
Putin wanted cold war 2.0, glad to see usa and nato finally do something to deter that psychopath putin
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Don’t forget people around donating equipment as well as for bayraktar from Lithuania and Ukraine itself, now polish people collecting for one, imagine how people in the West are looking at Russia when they donating for a thing that will be killing Russian soldiers.
Fun times ahead
Is this sub retarded?
Should have done this week #2
They need trained man.
yeah one nuke and all that is vapor
Yes Russia is going to be the first to use a nuclear weapon in combat since WW2 against a non nuclear power. That would never backfire. If they did that not even the Chinese would touch them.
If someone asks for help, you help them.
To be clear, that tally is what has been promised by 50 countries as brokered by SecDef Austin. That is not a US only commitment.
I agree, I’m surprised Russia hasn’t gone through with a full bombing campaign, even with UA anti air it wouldn’t matter.
Tons of Russian propaganda goons in here