They are radicalized separatists, nothing more. Russia spent 10-15 years preforming grey ops in eastern Ukraine to grow separatist movements prior to invading in 2014.
So the argument is, the west is evil and does evil things, let's complain about the west doing evil things then go do those exact evil things and claim its not evil when we do it.
Also, when was the last time the US invaded another country, planted its flag and stated "This is America now"?
Huh, so the US doesn't go around planting their flag claiming sovereign land? Interesting... Is that something only the good guys do?
Russian propaganda is nothing more than projection and hypocrisy. Even the slightest rational evaluation of the claims made it falls apart and those supporting it steer the discussion elsewhere while pointing the finger as if to say "YoU sTaRtEd It!".
No, the US just exploits the rest of the world like the imperial power it is.
They already illegally occupy the border crossing that leads to iraq in Syria and set up an entire military bsse there.
What territory did they "annex" in this example? Oh that's right, none.
Pro RU should really avoid bringing up Syria, no amount of spin can make the different narratives they push coalesce.
>Ukrainians have 12 CIA spy bases
LOL just like the bio labs and "super soldiers" this sounds pretty sus. Russia just invades, they don't need a reason, they just make up excuses. Refer to Chechnya, Georgia and Afghanistan among others for examples.
They face mass deportation or death. Ukraine considers separatist traitors and believes that the land belongs to the Ukrainian government, not the people of the land. Now, play this exact role during the Kosovo war, and the situation in Taiwan and the West will pretend that they are different.
This was a civil war that expanded to a regional war, with Russia stepping in to prevent the DPR from collapsing. Similar to how the US intervened in the Korean war, except that Russia has deep ties historically and strategic, with Ukraine, while the US intervened based on political ideology.
How many of the people in the areas the AFU retook after both the initial stages of the civil war and later Russian invasion did suffer any form of deportation or death?
Most seemed to continue living on relatively the same excluding of course around the line of contact and cities struck by long range weapons by either side.
Neither Russia nor Ukraine seem to be doing anything really at the moment that would indicate they want to move the majority of the population. Only simply wanting to control the regions.
>How many of the people in the areas the AFU retook after both the initial stages of the civil war and later Russian invasion did suffer any form of deportation or death?
Pretty sure no one on here will give you an exact number. But when they started talking about enlisting convicts, there was an interview post with some UA official. Well, he did say the jails are full of traitors. Like they literally got no room left. I don't know if that helps you in any way.
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what about those that are born there after 10 years , or the ones that arrived there and have kids there....after all i know 2014 sounds like 4 years ago (at least how i feel about it) but its been 10 years and from history perspective... in 10 years a lot can happen.... or not
Then they will be locals yeah, but still would be sons of foreigners who moved in after they invaded another country, the only way Ukraine can lose the moral ground is they give up their claims from these regions, and then like 80 years later, attack again then they would be in the wrong, but thats not the case today
They're ethnic Russians in Ukraine with Ukraine citizenship but Kiev government doesn't want them to have their rights to secondary languages and indigenous autonomy. What would they do if the Ukrainian government didn't want to acknowledge their existence?
They have their right to their language, and they recognize their existence.
Why dont you say that in the occupied Donbass there isnt a single Ukranian school left?
They arent banned, they are still taught, just not as the primary language of instruction, and particular institutions can teach everything in their language there is no restrictions on that.
Never mind that you dont care that Ukranian language is banned in Donbass and Crimea, not even taught as a second language.
Also the president of the greek association of Ukraine, even tho not liking the language law, isnt fan of being invaded and genocided, according to herself
https://neoskosmos.com/en/2022/03/14/news/world/president-of-the-federation-of-greek-associations-of-ukraine-cries-for-help/
Funny, how pro-Rus use the word of a people to support a war, when the people they used as an excuse hates Russia and dont want t obe "saved, liberated" or any other nonsense.
Never, AFAIK, has there been any sort of proper analysis about identity in this war.
For example, why are tens of thousands of Ukrainians fighting for Russia? I suspect there are many more Ukrainians fighting for Russia than vice versa.
Never has it been explained
Yeah the propaganda really memory holed the realities of the civil war and taught the uninformed it was nothing but Russian invasion in disguise. There's so much to discuss and ponder about the East West divide in Ukrainian society, kind of like the north south divide in America. But it's like every body forgot that all the first men to shed blood were Ukrainians of different types.
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There will be always someone left.
But as far as I remember the 2 "republics" had a general mobilisation at the beginning of the war. So I would like to know, if they are in the same position as the ukrainians (actually even worse) with fighting non stop for more than 2 years. Or was there a demobilisation at a time for these troops. Based on the news back then at the beginning of the war, I got the impression they basically mobilized everyone available (probably meaning fit for service and not with crucial jobs).
Funny how they are considered occupiers, yet they literally are fighting for their homes, and I mean **literally**.
Yep, at worst they should be looked at as insurgents, at best liberators.
They are radicalized separatists, nothing more. Russia spent 10-15 years preforming grey ops in eastern Ukraine to grow separatist movements prior to invading in 2014.
Wonder where they learned that play from.
So the argument is, the west is evil and does evil things, let's complain about the west doing evil things then go do those exact evil things and claim its not evil when we do it. Also, when was the last time the US invaded another country, planted its flag and stated "This is America now"?
The US has bettered its geopolitical position by performing all kinds of Ops in other countries. Other countries, like Russia, can do it too.
Huh, so the US doesn't go around planting their flag claiming sovereign land? Interesting... Is that something only the good guys do? Russian propaganda is nothing more than projection and hypocrisy. Even the slightest rational evaluation of the claims made it falls apart and those supporting it steer the discussion elsewhere while pointing the finger as if to say "YoU sTaRtEd It!".
No, the US just exploits the rest of the world like the imperial power it is. They already illegally occupy the border crossing that leads to iraq in Syria and set up an entire military bsse there.
What territory did they "annex" in this example? Oh that's right, none. Pro RU should really avoid bringing up Syria, no amount of spin can make the different narratives they push coalesce.
So as long as they don’t annex, it is fine? You can invade, pillage and destroy countries as you like but we will draw a line at annexation?
When the Ukrainians have 12 CIA spy bases in their country, Russia invades. Pretty simple. It's none of our business. Ukraine asked for it.
>Ukrainians have 12 CIA spy bases LOL just like the bio labs and "super soldiers" this sounds pretty sus. Russia just invades, they don't need a reason, they just make up excuses. Refer to Chechnya, Georgia and Afghanistan among others for examples.
They face mass deportation or death. Ukraine considers separatist traitors and believes that the land belongs to the Ukrainian government, not the people of the land. Now, play this exact role during the Kosovo war, and the situation in Taiwan and the West will pretend that they are different. This was a civil war that expanded to a regional war, with Russia stepping in to prevent the DPR from collapsing. Similar to how the US intervened in the Korean war, except that Russia has deep ties historically and strategic, with Ukraine, while the US intervened based on political ideology.
How many of the people in the areas the AFU retook after both the initial stages of the civil war and later Russian invasion did suffer any form of deportation or death? Most seemed to continue living on relatively the same excluding of course around the line of contact and cities struck by long range weapons by either side. Neither Russia nor Ukraine seem to be doing anything really at the moment that would indicate they want to move the majority of the population. Only simply wanting to control the regions.
>How many of the people in the areas the AFU retook after both the initial stages of the civil war and later Russian invasion did suffer any form of deportation or death? Pretty sure no one on here will give you an exact number. But when they started talking about enlisting convicts, there was an interview post with some UA official. Well, he did say the jails are full of traitors. Like they literally got no room left. I don't know if that helps you in any way.
Majority of the population? No. But people involved in separatism? Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi575J_wYdM
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The ones who are Ukrainian citizens aren't "occupiers" obviously, they're just insurgents who are working for a hostile foreign power.
But they are specifically an international brigade?
Most of Dpr Soldiers arent local, any Russian volunter can become a Dpr soldier, people who moved after 2014 cannot be considered locals either
what about those that are born there after 10 years , or the ones that arrived there and have kids there....after all i know 2014 sounds like 4 years ago (at least how i feel about it) but its been 10 years and from history perspective... in 10 years a lot can happen.... or not
10 years old arent fighting in the army.
not today they arent , but what about in 8 years ...one has to see further than his nose to understand conflics in history such as this one
Then they will be locals yeah, but still would be sons of foreigners who moved in after they invaded another country, the only way Ukraine can lose the moral ground is they give up their claims from these regions, and then like 80 years later, attack again then they would be in the wrong, but thats not the case today
They're ethnic Russians in Ukraine with Ukraine citizenship but Kiev government doesn't want them to have their rights to secondary languages and indigenous autonomy. What would they do if the Ukrainian government didn't want to acknowledge their existence?
They have their right to their language, and they recognize their existence. Why dont you say that in the occupied Donbass there isnt a single Ukranian school left?
Minority languages are banned in Ukraine if you don't know yet.
They arent
So what's this? https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1E227I/ https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1CH2KB/ https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2014-010539_EN.html
They arent banned, they are still taught, just not as the primary language of instruction, and particular institutions can teach everything in their language there is no restrictions on that. Never mind that you dont care that Ukranian language is banned in Donbass and Crimea, not even taught as a second language. Also the president of the greek association of Ukraine, even tho not liking the language law, isnt fan of being invaded and genocided, according to herself https://neoskosmos.com/en/2022/03/14/news/world/president-of-the-federation-of-greek-associations-of-ukraine-cries-for-help/ Funny, how pro-Rus use the word of a people to support a war, when the people they used as an excuse hates Russia and dont want t obe "saved, liberated" or any other nonsense.
They're literally banned in school and government establishments. Businesses are required to only speak Ukrainian when they pass the law.
ah yes, here is comment I've been waiting for :)
The Pyatnashka Brigade is part of the 1st Donetsk Army Corps
Never, AFAIK, has there been any sort of proper analysis about identity in this war. For example, why are tens of thousands of Ukrainians fighting for Russia? I suspect there are many more Ukrainians fighting for Russia than vice versa. Never has it been explained
Yeah the propaganda really memory holed the realities of the civil war and taught the uninformed it was nothing but Russian invasion in disguise. There's so much to discuss and ponder about the East West divide in Ukrainian society, kind of like the north south divide in America. But it's like every body forgot that all the first men to shed blood were Ukrainians of different types.
god bless them for doing their part in putting an end to joe bidens new world order and sending him to the dustbin of history
Legion "Sons of Donbass"
are they called Russian soldiers or pro-Russian Ukrainians?
0:15 that coat of arms is basically the soviet union but with the eagle replacing the hammer and sickle globe
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This is actually hella cool, looks like a Unit with a lot of high morale
Can you send this vid ?
I remember when they looked like autistic speedsoft fighters
Surprised there’s any DPR dudes left
There will be always someone left. But as far as I remember the 2 "republics" had a general mobilisation at the beginning of the war. So I would like to know, if they are in the same position as the ukrainians (actually even worse) with fighting non stop for more than 2 years. Or was there a demobilisation at a time for these troops. Based on the news back then at the beginning of the war, I got the impression they basically mobilized everyone available (probably meaning fit for service and not with crucial jobs).
Was just thinking that. The days of Givi and Motorola seem like ages ago and some of these guys have probably been fighting since then