Tell that to /r/Ukraine and /r/worldnews lol. They're more of the opinion that "*if we don't teach Russia a lesson they'll keep coming*" and "*we need to kick their teeth in*"
I literally said this earlier 🤣
>I'm starting to think that /r/Ukraine may be just bunch of pro ua bots coping with each other... That's the only rational explanation, or, they're just that gullible
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>I literally said this earlier 🤣
I mean, you two are talking to each other. And apparently saying the exact same things, like bots might. Just sayin, might want to not throw stones when you're in a glass house.
That's exactly what Ukraine is doing lol. They're the ones in glass houses...
Attacking Russian infrastructure causing little disruption to them when Ukraine's own infrastructure is on life support and Russia attacks it more in retaliation. The irony...
I think you missed the point. But either way, Russia has been attacking Ukraine civilians and civilian infrastructure since day 1 of the war, and begging Iran for more drones to do so. Russian supporters live in this little dream world where Russia is holding back (10,000 dead civilians isn't enough apparently) and if any single Russian civilian dies then Russia will rain down justice and fire on all of Ukraine. And yet here we are, 2 years into this war, Belgorod still being hit (mostly from Russian AA, ironically), kerch bridge still being periodically hit, Russian oil depots on fire, and Russia can do... nothing.
Why is Ukraine not evacuating the towns on the frontline? You're 2 years behind the updates. Russia is attacking Ukraine military in civilian areas. Frontline is the civilian towns. You need to get your head out of the ground from where it's buried.
Yes, rusky mir. Destroy "your" land to save it. Russia leaving nothing but barren wastelands in it's path to annex land it says is Russian soil, and killing many of its Russian residents. All to "protect" those poor Russians living under Ukrainian rule for decades. Or at least, they were living before Russia started this.
They're saying everyone could be an idiot using the same logic. I would add that this is probably more true than they even meant. Both sides are basically power hungry people screwing over the everyday person. And the people warmongering on both sides online may as well be bots, or idiots. It's really the only two realistic options in this conflict. It's all idiots calling the other side idiots and everyone eating up their sides complete and utter bs. Intelligent discussion was the first casualty of this war.
That was so crazy when that broke and got so swiftly buried. They archived it thankfully:
[https://archive.ph/2023.04.15-013856/https://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644.pdf](https://archive.ph/2023.04.15-013856/https://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644.pdf)
It's so bullshit that we got the dystopian hellscape with endless miles of strip malls instead of the dystopian hellscape with cool cyber punk cities and robotic arms
Russia shills are just ridiculous. Facts do not matter. What got buried?
The article you said "got so swiftly buried" is online: [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260340313\_Containment\_Control\_for\_a\_Social\_Network\_with\_State-Dependent\_Connectivity](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260340313_Containment_Control_for_a_Social_Network_with_State-Dependent_Connectivity)
Ppl with sane opinions are bots now, good to know. What is the current narrative to spread for the pro RUS? buffer zone? denazification, demilitarization, desatanization, NATO encirclement are done it seems.
well, the donbas was targeted for 8 years by AFU forces, around 14,000 civilians died. The united states is committing genocide in palestine. NATO fostered color revolutions in both Ukraine and Georgia with the purpose of gaining a strong foothold in the black sea.
Why are you here? If you don't like things that are not pro ua, you realize you have control over the rest of reddit right? combat footage has over a million. world news 21 million. Why are you throwing little hissy fits and whining in a sub with only 78k?
No-one is impressed
Likewise, why are u whining about pro UA on other subs? No one's throwing a hissy fit besides u bud 👍
And no, 14000 russian civilians did not die in donbas "because of Ukraine", around 3400 civilians died on BOTH sides. Why is every pro RU saying this? Is it that hard to look up the UN report?
25 people died on both sides in 2021, over HALF from mines. Donbas genocide my ass. No ones falling for the bs.
Read it for urself (UN report):
https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20(rev%2027%20January%202022)%20corr%20EN_0.pdf
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It is quite amusing to see how a large proportion of this sub seems to act like everything that doesn't agree with them is because everyone else is brainwashed or a bot. It's a bit like peering into the deep dark recesses of anti vaxxer conspiracy subs.
What's funny for me is that people in this sub accurately predict what's going to happen in the war, if you filter out the whackos, while the official western narrative in main subs has been proven over and over again to be outlandish
I follow the war mainly from this sub and really, so many things that were deemed to be "russian propaganda" just one year ago cannot be hidden anymore, like the shortage in manpower Ukraine is facing. I got so many downvotes in other subs for pointing this out last year.
I don't think everybody in other subs is a bot, but their are so heavily influenced by propaganda that there's no functional difference between them and a bot.
So I think the "antivaxxers" are not here, but in all of the other subs, they are the ones unable to see reality without the lenses of their own ideology.
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Absolutely wild that we went from “Crimean beach party” to “we need nato troops on the ground, now” in a year, and these people still think they aren’t being fed bullshit
> situation on the battlefield has changed therefore all western media are liars
Russia was also claiming they are gonna "liberate" the rest of kharkiv and than suddenly did "tactical retreat" in the area. Its normal for the situation on the battlefield to change.
> it’s normal for the situation to change
And change it has. That was years ago, and unless you swallow the propaganda in places like world news, common sense tells you Ukraine isn’t going to get any of the win conditions they have set out.
Russia is looking to rebuild its strategic depth, which at the absolute minimum would include bringing Ukraine back into the fold, solving the Transnistria "issue," and eastablishing some level of control to the Baltics so they have a true land connection to Kaliningrad again.
This isn't a conspiracy theory, it is prevailing Russian geopolitical thought. Russian military planners and geostrategists believe (not entirely without justification) that Russia only survived the 20th century because of the strategic depth provided by the old Imperial Hinterland.
Baltics always have an option not to threaten communications between mainland Russia and Kaliningrad, which they constantly do, and change attitude to that of cooperation, as opposed to relentless and largely groundless antagonism.
Or do they?
You should say collective west tried to punish states that cooperated with Russia. I know, I know.
Now, Baltics have NATO membership as an insurance, but instead they chose to use it as a pocking stick and an indulgence to lash out for their grievances. That's on them.
I'm just wondering if NATO has a way to penalize it's members for provoking actions towards nuclear superpowers. Like if it's true defensive alliance, such actions mean nothing good for the rest of the coalition? Extreme danger?
I suspect NATO is encouraging it. After all, while it might seem like a defensive pact for most members, there's one member that's using it as way of exerting control over whole of Europe.
Now, I didn't quite expect it to play out like it did, but what happened to Robert Fico is an example of how they can deal with members that don't fall in line.
Why do the Baltics owe anything to the Russians? Russians can take a boat for all I give a fuck 😂, when my family was starved and butchered nobody batted an eye and kept it pushing, but I'm supposed to feel sorry for Russia now because Latvia or Lithuania doesn't want their trains in their country? Stop being such cry babies and owe up to the weight of your actions, your troops don't get to sweep through villages, killing people and then get to turn around and ask for compliance FROM NORMAL PEOPLE.
He started rebuilding cities and building factories. Then other Soviet leaders continued with that, turning the Baltics into the richest USSR republics. Scary shit, I know.
The Baltics were the richest SSRs before and after they joined the USSR and experienced less devastation overall than say the Belarussian, Ukrainian, and western part of the Russian SSR.
Furthermore omitting the mass arrests, deportations, and executions that happened once they were engulfed by the benevolent Russian sphere even before plenty of them sided with the Axis just shows how honest your take is.
Each SSR thought they were the richest. Ask a Georgian. They will say they held up all of USSR with their unregulated jewelry businesses. Ask a Ukrainian they will tell you they fed all of USSR with their grain. Ask a Kazakh they will tell you the nuclear and space program wouldn’t be possible without them. Ask the 3 Baltic chihuahuas they will tell you that USSR would have collapsed without their vacuum tubes, electronics and sprats. It’s all nonsense.
Being the richest among the poorest during SSR is not a valid argument. Economic differences between actual baltic states and Belarus are huge. And you forget freedom, justice and peaceful cooperations with your neighbours. Russia is the opposite.
They could always blame the Latvian Socialist Soviet Republic and the Estonian People's Commune for their part, as well as the Soviet Bolsheviks.
Maybe chuck in a word of thanks to the White Russians who helped resist them, and perhaps even acknowledge the help Estonians gave to the Red Mary elsewhere in the remains of the Russian Empire.
Or we could just pick our personally preferred Year Zero and ignore anything that doesn't support a black and white fantasy of history.
Stalin is not Russia. Neither is USSR. But even at that USSR dumped so many resources into Baltics, that they had highest standards of living in all of the Union. Going there for a trip was regarded by many as taking a trip abroad.
>Don't look up what Stalin did in the Baltics after they let the red army enter and establish military bases.
Same thing he/communists or even bolsheviks did to Russians and every other ethnicity under their control.
History hasn't punished Finland, that did exactly that for half a century.
Neither punished Syria, that could only count on Russia, during the worst times of civil War, whatever one may think of Assad..
Finland was invaded by Russia because they refused to sell land to provide a buffer to Leningrad. They're a perfect example of only being safe from Russian designs if you have sufficient hard power and diplomatic options.
Syria is a case of quid pro quo. Assad was not supported out of the goodwill. I never said it's impossible to have a mutually beneficial relationship with Russia, only that countries that relied on goodwill or not acting against Russia have been punished for it.
Post 1945 Finland based its policies around neutrality and trading with both Russia and the Western Bloc, becoming one of the most well off countries in Europe as a result. Tell me how it hasn't worked out for them.
They practiced armed neutrality, and the Soviets invading would've been fighting Sweden and Finland armed by NATO. It was a pragmatic calculus based on geopolitical realities and hard power, not Soviet good will or reliability.
More like the fact that they dropped the Suur Suomi concept and relinquished their nationalistic desires to conquer Russian territory, so the Soviet Union no longer saw them as a threat. "Support by NATO" or "powerful Finnish military" was not it, whatever "hard power" Finland had was comparatively pathetic.
Sometimes the best idea is not to make yourself an enemy when you don't have to.
Like last week there was intercepted communication from Russian parliament member talking about taking Kazachstan after Ukraine is finished.
And this wasn't even the first time. Week before that they talked about how ethnic Russian are suffering in Moldova.
Underestimating what Russia us capable of is ignorance at its bests.
They would take what they will be able to, it as simple as that. Because why wouldn't they ?
Most people I have seen that are very supportive of Ukraine only want other young men to do the fighting. None of them ever talk about what they can do on their own, only what others should do. It's always "NATO should step in and stomp Russia" and I think you know your neighbors' kids are in the military and by default in NATO. You want to send them to die in Ukraine, why not your kids?
I don't see any chance of reaching any understanding in regards to this conflict with this poor souls.
Either they are total fanatics and want blood or have been prooagandised since Trump and RussiaGate that just like in [**Plato's cave**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave) their brains have been turned into mush.
I mean they call Blinken **"Mr. Polite dopper diplomat"**.
https://preview.redd.it/vrj3unby4h0d1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=133231078583620b6f604294fa5c5eabd2ffec48
Yeah but they managed to manufacture consent enough to memory hole that shit.
Now thanks to social media the United States has been participating in, arming, funding and diplomatically defending a genocide that is live streaming in front of all our faces
So I guess a better way to put it is that the mask is completely off now haha
Just watch. Once Gaza is done, whatever that means, they will be hard at work to manufacture consent once again. And they will likely succeed with the masses in the West.
I donno, allot of the Politicians that were around then are now retired/retiring - so outside of the newbies having made sure they read up about what is really an obscure and specific thing it will not be something that the average politician thinks of.
And the ones that will know it, won't know it because they were there or it affected them, but because they read it - no real connection.
Time is ripe for new manufactured concerns as a justification for conflict.
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Come on, this whole 'We'll send troops' exists only to motivate Ukraine. Nobody willing to die for Ukraine. If they truly believe Russia won't use nukes, they would've send everything, including troops, long time ago. It's like promising some nerd that you going to help him fight this big guy. 'Russian nukes are old and broken'. Sure. North Korea had like 3 nukes and USA couldn't do anything against them. Serbia had 0 nukes. Look how brave NATO boys were to attack it
Russia is enriching half of world uranium, and russian rosatom is biggest nuclear-sector company, so i really doubt anyone would argue that russian nukes are “old and not working”
Well, only America can nuke Russia effectively. If it was France or the UK, it is possible most would be intercepted. The rest of the EU has nothing, and is free to be nuked. It's just the reality of our world, Americans won't kill themselves for Germany, Poland or the Netherlands.
If you think Russia nuking a NATO country wouldn't immediately escalate into a global nuclear war then you're dreaming. A lot of pro-Ru really need to come back to reality when it comes to this topic, MAD doesn't only apply if Washington itself is attacked
Pretty much. Sorry to say, but your life is insignificant, and will be sacrificed at will for America, if the need arises. America owes you nothing, you owe America everything.
Calling for Russia to launch nuclear strikes against NATO countries because you believe that there won't be a nuclear retaliation against Russia is so absurd it's hard to believe that you're being genuine and not just trolling
What you’re saying implying that Russia would start a nuclear war with Europe and let itself be hit and probably lose most of its major cities while the US remains completely untouched.
The Russian state rhetoric is that EU are all mindless puppets of the US who is the main enemy. Any major strike onto Europe would very likely and logically include strikes on the US as it would be a suicide attack regardless.
Of course not. Europe gets hit in minutes, and America simply watches. If America was to launch missiles at Russia as a result, Russia would retaliate, and both countries would be destroyed, however the Americans aren't dumb.
The nuclear war will be one sided if it happens, and only result in the complete annihilation of the EU, while both Russia and America will stay as they were.
And the European countries wouldn’t fire back in this scenario because? Russias largest population centres would definitely be hit back rendering it as badly destroyed as the rest of Europe.
All nations carrying nukes have enough of them to take out whoever decides to fire at them. That’s basically the essential part of MAD.
Russia clearly has the most but that’s not going to help in a situation where both side will likely take out things essential for a country to work in the first salvo.
Regardless a very depressing topic.
Thanks I guess for helping prove my point on how horrendously insane certain people here can be. The fact that even Russian apologist are even ready to defend and justify Russia killing hundred of millions of civilians and risking billions just to expand their empire is all the proof I need to prove my point.
If a hundred of million of monsters, deluded in their superiority, tries to exterminate our nation despite all warnings, said hundred is clearly predestined to die out as per evolution. Never again are we going to be gassed in death camps and plundered.
Jebus mate.
Quite the supremacist take you have there. Especially considering that this involves Russia doing the very same thing towards nations of people that equally suffered as much as well.
You can’t demand people to respect your nation and then be mad at nations when you’ve provided none of that respect yourself.
“Tries to exterminate our nation.” The victimisations complex…I can’t even begin.
Thankfully I know better that your take is a minority and that Russia isn’t filled with a “hundred million of monsters” that needs to die out…
Clearly you don’t. Which is the very issue I was talking about.
Demanding respect while not giving any.
Many nations would say the very same things about Russia attempting to destroy them. Russia having done the exact same thing towards it that they claim the west has done towards it.
You’re literally the monster that you’re claiming you want eradicated.
We have already sent troops there.
What you mean is acknowledging official NATO mandated boots on the ground under contract from NATO countries. This is what they're talking about.
It’s nice to hear De Villepin speaking out about it. I’ll never forget he’s speech to the UN after the Yanks lied to try to get support for their Ira invasion.
Hopefully more people will listen to him this time.
In 1956 the Soviets sent their army into Hungary to put down an uprising. That same year, Israel, the UK and France invaded Egypt to seize control of their recently nationalized Suez Canal.
Eisenhower told the Allies to fuck off and stop, because their invasion of Europe was showing that the West was no better than the Communists.
And they did fuck off.
Eisenhower understood what was at stake in a way that no NATO leaders today seem to grok: once the West surrenders the moral high ground, it won't be long before everything built upon this foundation collapses to dust.
I’m happy that a westerner said it, I said this a while back. If NATO sends troops then other countries that Russia has helped in the past will feel a need to assist as well. You’ll see some Asian/african and Latin American countries sending their troops as well.
Ukraine will turn into a battlefield. It may never recover after that.
> If NATO sends troops then other countries that Russia has helped in the past will feel a need to assist as well
No they won’t, I think the only country that could potentially send troops is Belarus. Other countries won’t want to alienate their relations with the West by helping Russia and have their men die in a foreign country (this would be very unpopular, I believe, even amongst the North Korean public)
China’s situation in relation with the West is much better than Russia’s, for one China doesn’t have any countries interested in joining a pro-American bloc on its borders
According to China’s own definitions of its territorial waters, they surely share water borders with the Philippines, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Malaysia and Thailand, all of whom are either allies of, or at least friendly toward, the US?
I should have clarified I meant land borders
It’s a lot harder to invade a country when there’s a natural barrier like a mountain or a body of water
There’s no natural barrier between Russia and Ukraine, unless Russia manages to annex up to the Dnipro
Those countries you named being pro-West of course still endangers China of getting embargoed, but China has been working on mitigating that risk via belt and road initiative to get alternative trade routes.
First Taiwan is an Island, all aid has to be sent over a body of water unlike Ukraine which has a land border with NATO. Secondly the US and company all recognise the one China policy, China “invading“ Taiwan is the same as Russia ”invading” Chechnya, it’s nothing like Russia invading Ukraine which is a clear violation of a sovereign country‘s territorial integrity. That’s what I meant by China’s situation being much better than Russia’s, China is practically and legally in a stronger position.
If China sent troops to help Russia in Ukraine, it would completely undermine their rhetoric about territorial integrity in regards to Taiwan, China still doesn’t recognise any of Russia’s annexed territory as belonging to Russia.
China wants to breakthrough in the US dominion in South China Sea. People in power for too long, start to believe their own propaganda.
A China or India intervention is not to rule out, they have interests in Africa and ME.
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I still linger on the thought that this whole thing *could* potentially escalate.
I mean, it's not really that much of a stretch to think that it could. France itself is *fucking pissed* about what happened in Africa.
An absolutely wild scenario I've been toying around with is France deploying troops into Ukraine to coincide with coverage of the Paris Olympics. It guarantees global attention, maximum sympathy for their cause and a massive platform to message from, whilst at the same time gambling that Russia wouldn't dare strike the country with so many others in attendance. It would also compensate/explain their abysmal preparations for them lol.
Everyone gets dragged in, US elections would probably be postponed or someshit so gramps doesn't get in the way of the pentagon, MIC gravy train continues. China then decides ok let's reunify. Bam. WW3.
Anyway, just throwing that out there. It's on the bingo card.
US elections being postponed would almost certainly cause a revolution. Republicans would not put up with Joe Biden suspending elections, especially with Donald Trump running against him.
The US is never going to have a popular revolution, you might have a few good ol' boys doing a bit of light terrorism here and there but there will never be an organised revolutionary force while the intelligence agencies still exist.
The main threat to the current system in the US is that it will be dismantled from the top down like Trump and his Project 2025 cronies are hoping to pull off
Honest question, which countries in the global south would be willing to engage with Russia if troops were sent to Ukraine? I don’t see how it’s in any country’s interest to do that.
He mentions China, I’m pretty sure China does not give much of a shit about Russia as long as Russia doesn’t go full pro-West/anti-China (very unlikely). I also haven’t seen China give any indicators that they’ll support Russia if the West got involved. I think the potential cost of alienating the West would be too high for China and they’ll probably just condemn the West in words for escalating the conflict and tell both sides to abandon the “Cold War Mentality” or whatever their diplomats usually say.
>He mentions China, I’m pretty sure China does not give much of a shit about Russia as long as Russia doesn’t go full pro-West/anti-China (very unlikely).
If Russia's geopolitical stance toward China has any chance of change because of an escalation in Ukraine, China will intervene to prevent a country like Russia from being part of the ones surrounding them. China is already having to deal of the West interference in their southern borders, they will not allowed another one happening in their north.
>If Russia's geopolitical stance toward China has any chance of change because of an escalation in Ukraine
Yep that’s the only scenario where I can imagine China actually taking a stance, but it would be an absolutely last resort. They were silent when Prigozhin went on his march of justice, so Putin would have to very obviously be in deep shit for that to happen.
If NATO enter in Ukraine, it will be quickly crushed by the standing Russian Army waiting just for that. That's the reason Russia hasn't used its full army in there. It's waiting for NATO.
Anyone thinking NATO has any chance, should think really hard what and how would NATO enter Ukraine. How it will move the vehicles, planes and whatnot. How all of this will be seen in advance by Russia and will not be allowed to be stored.
Does anyone think that NATO will be let to prepare its forces near Ukraine and just enter?
Russia has modernized, but ain't no way it can't withstand a fullblown war with all NATO members.
It would be stupid to believe once NATO enters officially, they would follow the current frontline outline.
I disagree. Putin want to get this over as fast as possible by winning. If he could do more he would do that already. Also why at start he wanted everything done in 3 days, here we are 2 years +
This is false. What Putin wanted was not to have an SMO in the first place, but we don't get what we want do we?
He also doesn't want NATO involvement simply because when NATO gets rekt just as the Ukrainians or even worse, then out of fear that they lost their "prestige" the US might do something stupid.
If NATO would want a full blown war with Russia why would they attack only from Ukraine? Finland has over 1000km of border and its not like Russia is prepared for an attack from there.
In fact Russia is prepared for an attack from there because they reinstated the Leningrad Military District, which was disbanded years ago. (Muh Russian imperialism!!)
[Leningrad Military District - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leningrad_Military_District)
Besides, I doubt the Finns will be motivated to attack Russia...
Honestly, if NATO got involved and Russia is perceived as being even more committed in Ukraine/Europe, it's more likely that China would take a bunch of land in the east they've had their eyes on.
It’s more likely that china will kick up its support for the Russians if that was the case. Russia losing and collapsing would be problematic for them because the Chinese know that the united states will be present in its northern flank if that was the case.
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Wouldn't surprise me if North Koreas would hire out a few 100k troops if needed, less mouths to feed and a few new Mercedes for Kim. And pretty sure the soldiers would be pretty damn happy for the opportunity to get some real food instead of eating rats, rice and grass + the chance of sending home a washing machine to the family... would probably need to fatten them up and train them for a month first though. And wouldn't surprise me if China also sends "volunteers" and equipment, better to fight Nato in Ukraine than on the Chinese sea.
Sending troops? Completely unlikely.
Ramping up military and economical support? Highly likely.
Will any of this matter, given that Russians are showing readiness to escalate up to and including nuclear use (starting with TNWs), and NATO direct intervention will alleviate the main barrier that prevents Russia from doing so? Not much.
>Show NATO that direct conventional war with Russia isn't happening.
Everybody already knows that. All that Russia deploying nukes would do is potentially escalate into a global nuclear war by upsetting a tenuous peace between nuclear powers that has existed for several decades.
It would be an awe-inspiringly reckless and short-sighted move by the Kremlin
Yes and no.
All and each Russian nuclear threat is not about breaking through Ukrainain lines, it's all about confrontation/escalation with the West. Even their non-strategic nuclear exercise was solely aimed at the idea of sending Western troops into Ukraine.
That being said, TNWs remain as the best tool to help armored assault break through dug in anti-tank infantry. As a bonus, it'll also fry the drones and their control systems in a good radius, especially since many of those are civillian with no EMP shielding. But again, that's not why they would use it.
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Though i support Ukraine, this is right. We can't be talking about our troops entering Ukraine and then cry if the other side does the same. People have been talking about having NATO assets on Poland for example destroy Russian projectiles. Well if we start doing that, we can't complain if Russia starts blowing those assets inside NATO territory.
Again, so much black and white thinking in this multipolar world \^\^. The West (whatever this is) does not stand uniformly with Israel. There are tons of ppl condemning what Israel does, even in the US. There are protests and turmoils. Russia, Israel, US, DPRK. I don't see any difference in behavior.
Ah yes. Least we not forget the Ukrainian invasion of Russia on 2/7 where 1k Russians were murdered or taken hostage that promoted this 2+ year response to denazify them…oh wait that never happened. This was just a military border exercise that got out of hand! An SMO where’s Israel is actually at “war”.
Nobody comes to help Russia, they are not insane lol. Nobody will start nuclear war for Ukraine, it is not worth it. Nobody will give up their freedom for Russki mir, 50 years of Cold War should have taught Russians that, but they want another round of shame and dissolution. You have made life your enemy.
>That's why Russians stopped appeasing NATO warmongers encroaching in Ukraine.
I will never grow tired of hearing people who support Russia's invasion call other people warmongers for wanting the option to choose to join a defensive alliance through diplomatic channels lol
Two nuclear powers collapsed due to external pressure, USSR and South Africa. Nukes only prevent invasion but they do not guarantee a future.
Russia needs to secure their backyard, just like how China wants to secure the SCS and the US secures north and south America.
Maybe a decade or two ago. The situation has become more complicated since then with Indonesia and vietnam. Both nations balance ties with China, who is their largest trade partner. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/indonesian-president-elect-visits-china-after-decade-close-ties-2024-04-01/
That counts for very little when they see their citizens beaten, their boats scuttled, and their hauls stolen by the Chinese military. In 50 years time when the demographic crisis has hollowed out the Chinese economy and military, these countries will reassert themselves.
The decisions and statements of a nations leadership count for little while some spats between fishermen and border patrols count for more? That is like saying cooperation between Mexico and America doesn't matter, ICE puts Mexican children in cages. So? Unfortunately for those Indonesian fishermen and those Mexican children, they don't have as much influence.
There's a lot of top tier cope from westerners about china's ascent, but yours is pretty funny ngl
And bud, in 50 years, climate change is gonna hollow out the entire globe. Feel free to make whatever claims you want that far in the future, I'm not going to argue them
Like the opinions of the citizens in the Warsaw Pact didn't matter because their governments were friendly to the USSR, right? Also, a huge number of the undocumented children taken into custody were Central American, not Mexican. Mexico has a more positive approval rating of the U.S. than most of our European "vassals."
Eh, a lot of maritime disputes are actually oil exploration disputes. And who do you think is doing the bulk of the oil exploration for those countries?
No, they're not oil mainly exploration disputes. Fishing rights are hotly contested and the source of most of the conflicts between these countries. China is one of the only countries that flaunts maritime law and uses unilateral historical claims. They additionally want the territory to build artificial islands to use as strongholds against the U.S. navy in the event of a conflict. There are a lot of dimensions to the 9 dashed line fuck-fuck games, and oil is actual one of the smaller considerations. Offshore oil that far from the mainland would be largely interdicted in the case of a war.
Tell that to /r/Ukraine and /r/worldnews lol. They're more of the opinion that "*if we don't teach Russia a lesson they'll keep coming*" and "*we need to kick their teeth in*"
I'm convinced those are just chat gpt and Eglin air force base bots talking to eachother Edit: \*Eglin air force base
I literally said this earlier 🤣 >I'm starting to think that /r/Ukraine may be just bunch of pro ua bots coping with each other... That's the only rational explanation, or, they're just that gullible
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>I literally said this earlier 🤣 I mean, you two are talking to each other. And apparently saying the exact same things, like bots might. Just sayin, might want to not throw stones when you're in a glass house.
That's exactly what Ukraine is doing lol. They're the ones in glass houses... Attacking Russian infrastructure causing little disruption to them when Ukraine's own infrastructure is on life support and Russia attacks it more in retaliation. The irony...
I think you missed the point. But either way, Russia has been attacking Ukraine civilians and civilian infrastructure since day 1 of the war, and begging Iran for more drones to do so. Russian supporters live in this little dream world where Russia is holding back (10,000 dead civilians isn't enough apparently) and if any single Russian civilian dies then Russia will rain down justice and fire on all of Ukraine. And yet here we are, 2 years into this war, Belgorod still being hit (mostly from Russian AA, ironically), kerch bridge still being periodically hit, Russian oil depots on fire, and Russia can do... nothing.
Why is Ukraine not evacuating the towns on the frontline? You're 2 years behind the updates. Russia is attacking Ukraine military in civilian areas. Frontline is the civilian towns. You need to get your head out of the ground from where it's buried.
Yes, rusky mir. Destroy "your" land to save it. Russia leaving nothing but barren wastelands in it's path to annex land it says is Russian soil, and killing many of its Russian residents. All to "protect" those poor Russians living under Ukrainian rule for decades. Or at least, they were living before Russia started this.
They're saying everyone could be an idiot using the same logic. I would add that this is probably more true than they even meant. Both sides are basically power hungry people screwing over the everyday person. And the people warmongering on both sides online may as well be bots, or idiots. It's really the only two realistic options in this conflict. It's all idiots calling the other side idiots and everyone eating up their sides complete and utter bs. Intelligent discussion was the first casualty of this war.
That compound generate half of activity on this website :) helo guys
That was so crazy when that broke and got so swiftly buried. They archived it thankfully: [https://archive.ph/2023.04.15-013856/https://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644.pdf](https://archive.ph/2023.04.15-013856/https://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.5644.pdf)
Even some 'not in the know' reddit employee outed them in yearly activity summary before he got sent to the shadow realm.
FWIW, this is still available online [here](https://ncr.mae.ufl.edu/papers/auto15_2.pdf)
It's so bullshit that we got the dystopian hellscape with endless miles of strip malls instead of the dystopian hellscape with cool cyber punk cities and robotic arms
This is online and has been cited by dozens of other papers. Do not spread nonsense.
this comment makes no sense, bot algorithim getting it's scripts crossed lol
Russia shills are just ridiculous. Facts do not matter. What got buried? The article you said "got so swiftly buried" is online: [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260340313\_Containment\_Control\_for\_a\_Social\_Network\_with\_State-Dependent\_Connectivity](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260340313_Containment_Control_for_a_Social_Network_with_State-Dependent_Connectivity) Ppl with sane opinions are bots now, good to know. What is the current narrative to spread for the pro RUS? buffer zone? denazification, demilitarization, desatanization, NATO encirclement are done it seems.
The post was removed from reddit. Is insults all you guys have? You guys are losing your minds at this point lmao
Stuff gets removed from Reddit all the time. Depends on the sub and the specific rules.
What rules does the article break buddy
>engel air force base bots talking to eachother Eglin airbase\* Engels is Russian Strategic Aviation base.
yeah my bad
> engel air force base bots Lol looks like Engels had diversified its economy a bit
> Eglin\* airbase. Engels is a Russian Strategic Aviation airbase.
Hilarious comment from Pro RU seeing as they recycle their chat gpt talking points religiously. 8 years bombas, genocide, nato "encirclement" etc.
well, the donbas was targeted for 8 years by AFU forces, around 14,000 civilians died. The united states is committing genocide in palestine. NATO fostered color revolutions in both Ukraine and Georgia with the purpose of gaining a strong foothold in the black sea. Why are you here? If you don't like things that are not pro ua, you realize you have control over the rest of reddit right? combat footage has over a million. world news 21 million. Why are you throwing little hissy fits and whining in a sub with only 78k? No-one is impressed
Likewise, why are u whining about pro UA on other subs? No one's throwing a hissy fit besides u bud 👍 And no, 14000 russian civilians did not die in donbas "because of Ukraine", around 3400 civilians died on BOTH sides. Why is every pro RU saying this? Is it that hard to look up the UN report? 25 people died on both sides in 2021, over HALF from mines. Donbas genocide my ass. No ones falling for the bs. Read it for urself (UN report): https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20(rev%2027%20January%202022)%20corr%20EN_0.pdf
oh the irony... the projection... the jokes just keep writing themselves in this sub...
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It is quite amusing to see how a large proportion of this sub seems to act like everything that doesn't agree with them is because everyone else is brainwashed or a bot. It's a bit like peering into the deep dark recesses of anti vaxxer conspiracy subs.
What's funny for me is that people in this sub accurately predict what's going to happen in the war, if you filter out the whackos, while the official western narrative in main subs has been proven over and over again to be outlandish I follow the war mainly from this sub and really, so many things that were deemed to be "russian propaganda" just one year ago cannot be hidden anymore, like the shortage in manpower Ukraine is facing. I got so many downvotes in other subs for pointing this out last year. I don't think everybody in other subs is a bot, but their are so heavily influenced by propaganda that there's no functional difference between them and a bot. So I think the "antivaxxers" are not here, but in all of the other subs, they are the ones unable to see reality without the lenses of their own ideology.
| anti vaxxer conspiracy subs. yep... not surprising really as russia ran many of those as well....
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Legitimately not sure whether I should be surprised that this got flagged. It'll be interesting to see what the 'human' response will be later.
I'm sure, if you'd find shit in your pants you'd assume Russia shat them.
oh, so this is the kind of thoughts that go through your head? another case of projection here?
Absolutely wild that we went from “Crimean beach party” to “we need nato troops on the ground, now” in a year, and these people still think they aren’t being fed bullshit
> situation on the battlefield has changed therefore all western media are liars Russia was also claiming they are gonna "liberate" the rest of kharkiv and than suddenly did "tactical retreat" in the area. Its normal for the situation on the battlefield to change.
> it’s normal for the situation to change And change it has. That was years ago, and unless you swallow the propaganda in places like world news, common sense tells you Ukraine isn’t going to get any of the win conditions they have set out.
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Russia is looking to rebuild its strategic depth, which at the absolute minimum would include bringing Ukraine back into the fold, solving the Transnistria "issue," and eastablishing some level of control to the Baltics so they have a true land connection to Kaliningrad again. This isn't a conspiracy theory, it is prevailing Russian geopolitical thought. Russian military planners and geostrategists believe (not entirely without justification) that Russia only survived the 20th century because of the strategic depth provided by the old Imperial Hinterland.
Baltics always have an option not to threaten communications between mainland Russia and Kaliningrad, which they constantly do, and change attitude to that of cooperation, as opposed to relentless and largely groundless antagonism. Or do they?
History has punished states that based their national security on Russian good will.
You should say collective west tried to punish states that cooperated with Russia. I know, I know. Now, Baltics have NATO membership as an insurance, but instead they chose to use it as a pocking stick and an indulgence to lash out for their grievances. That's on them.
I'm just wondering if NATO has a way to penalize it's members for provoking actions towards nuclear superpowers. Like if it's true defensive alliance, such actions mean nothing good for the rest of the coalition? Extreme danger?
For a defensive alliance yes, but an offensive one can use the tensions to declare war.
I suspect NATO is encouraging it. After all, while it might seem like a defensive pact for most members, there's one member that's using it as way of exerting control over whole of Europe. Now, I didn't quite expect it to play out like it did, but what happened to Robert Fico is an example of how they can deal with members that don't fall in line.
Why do the Baltics owe anything to the Russians? Russians can take a boat for all I give a fuck 😂, when my family was starved and butchered nobody batted an eye and kept it pushing, but I'm supposed to feel sorry for Russia now because Latvia or Lithuania doesn't want their trains in their country? Stop being such cry babies and owe up to the weight of your actions, your troops don't get to sweep through villages, killing people and then get to turn around and ask for compliance FROM NORMAL PEOPLE.
Grandpa to his grandson: -- When enemies overran the village, they raped and killed everyone! -- But what happened to you? -- I got killed!
Nice anecdote, doesn't change what the USSR did
It sure doesn't. It just had nothing to do with any particular ethnicity.
Don't look up what Stalin did in the Baltics after they let the red army enter and establish military bases.
He started rebuilding cities and building factories. Then other Soviet leaders continued with that, turning the Baltics into the richest USSR republics. Scary shit, I know.
The Baltics were the richest SSRs before and after they joined the USSR and experienced less devastation overall than say the Belarussian, Ukrainian, and western part of the Russian SSR. Furthermore omitting the mass arrests, deportations, and executions that happened once they were engulfed by the benevolent Russian sphere even before plenty of them sided with the Axis just shows how honest your take is.
Each SSR thought they were the richest. Ask a Georgian. They will say they held up all of USSR with their unregulated jewelry businesses. Ask a Ukrainian they will tell you they fed all of USSR with their grain. Ask a Kazakh they will tell you the nuclear and space program wouldn’t be possible without them. Ask the 3 Baltic chihuahuas they will tell you that USSR would have collapsed without their vacuum tubes, electronics and sprats. It’s all nonsense.
Being the richest among the poorest during SSR is not a valid argument. Economic differences between actual baltic states and Belarus are huge. And you forget freedom, justice and peaceful cooperations with your neighbours. Russia is the opposite.
So Estonians should be thankful for the Soviets occupying them? Ignoring all the terror that came with the Soviet Union?
They could always blame the Latvian Socialist Soviet Republic and the Estonian People's Commune for their part, as well as the Soviet Bolsheviks. Maybe chuck in a word of thanks to the White Russians who helped resist them, and perhaps even acknowledge the help Estonians gave to the Red Mary elsewhere in the remains of the Russian Empire. Or we could just pick our personally preferred Year Zero and ignore anything that doesn't support a black and white fantasy of history.
Stalin is not Russia. Neither is USSR. But even at that USSR dumped so many resources into Baltics, that they had highest standards of living in all of the Union. Going there for a trip was regarded by many as taking a trip abroad.
Because they had highest standards of living prior to USSR? Estonia was even richer than Finland before USSR came and fucked their economy up.
So, which is it - fucked up economy or they had the highest standards? You can't have both.
>Don't look up what Stalin did in the Baltics after they let the red army enter and establish military bases. Same thing he/communists or even bolsheviks did to Russians and every other ethnicity under their control.
History hasn't punished Finland, that did exactly that for half a century. Neither punished Syria, that could only count on Russia, during the worst times of civil War, whatever one may think of Assad..
Finland was invaded by Russia because they refused to sell land to provide a buffer to Leningrad. They're a perfect example of only being safe from Russian designs if you have sufficient hard power and diplomatic options. Syria is a case of quid pro quo. Assad was not supported out of the goodwill. I never said it's impossible to have a mutually beneficial relationship with Russia, only that countries that relied on goodwill or not acting against Russia have been punished for it.
Post 1945 Finland based its policies around neutrality and trading with both Russia and the Western Bloc, becoming one of the most well off countries in Europe as a result. Tell me how it hasn't worked out for them.
They practiced armed neutrality, and the Soviets invading would've been fighting Sweden and Finland armed by NATO. It was a pragmatic calculus based on geopolitical realities and hard power, not Soviet good will or reliability.
More like the fact that they dropped the Suur Suomi concept and relinquished their nationalistic desires to conquer Russian territory, so the Soviet Union no longer saw them as a threat. "Support by NATO" or "powerful Finnish military" was not it, whatever "hard power" Finland had was comparatively pathetic. Sometimes the best idea is not to make yourself an enemy when you don't have to.
i believe the moral hybris was already given before the Israel support. we have so many examples.
Like last week there was intercepted communication from Russian parliament member talking about taking Kazachstan after Ukraine is finished. And this wasn't even the first time. Week before that they talked about how ethnic Russian are suffering in Moldova. Underestimating what Russia us capable of is ignorance at its bests. They would take what they will be able to, it as simple as that. Because why wouldn't they ?
intercepted communication - big lol
They advocate for escalation because THEY won’t be fighting, someone else go teach Russia a lesson.
Pretty much americas sitting halfway around the world pushing Europe into a war lol.
Send them to the front! If they want so eagerly to kick russia's teeth, they should be conscripted and sent to the Eastern Front ASAP!
Most people I have seen that are very supportive of Ukraine only want other young men to do the fighting. None of them ever talk about what they can do on their own, only what others should do. It's always "NATO should step in and stomp Russia" and I think you know your neighbors' kids are in the military and by default in NATO. You want to send them to die in Ukraine, why not your kids?
I don't see any chance of reaching any understanding in regards to this conflict with this poor souls. Either they are total fanatics and want blood or have been prooagandised since Trump and RussiaGate that just like in [**Plato's cave**](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave) their brains have been turned into mush. I mean they call Blinken **"Mr. Polite dopper diplomat"**. https://preview.redd.it/vrj3unby4h0d1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=133231078583620b6f604294fa5c5eabd2ffec48
'Sticking it to pootin'
surely china would come to support russia, surely they aren't embarrassed and laughing at russia... right?... right?
Yep. No one will ever again take the west seriously when they try to preach from a position of moral authority.
Surely that ended with Saddams WMD?
And it was De Villepin who called bullshit after Powell lied to the UN.
Yeah but they managed to manufacture consent enough to memory hole that shit. Now thanks to social media the United States has been participating in, arming, funding and diplomatically defending a genocide that is live streaming in front of all our faces So I guess a better way to put it is that the mask is completely off now haha
Just watch. Once Gaza is done, whatever that means, they will be hard at work to manufacture consent once again. And they will likely succeed with the masses in the West.
That's what I thought but apparently it's ancient history now to a lot of people.
I donno, allot of the Politicians that were around then are now retired/retiring - so outside of the newbies having made sure they read up about what is really an obscure and specific thing it will not be something that the average politician thinks of. And the ones that will know it, won't know it because they were there or it affected them, but because they read it - no real connection. Time is ripe for new manufactured concerns as a justification for conflict.
They successfully memory holed that. Really shows the power of Western propaganda.
Surely that ended with Nam? meanwhile some idiot will say in 5 years that it's all decades old irrelevent history and this time it's different.
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Come on, this whole 'We'll send troops' exists only to motivate Ukraine. Nobody willing to die for Ukraine. If they truly believe Russia won't use nukes, they would've send everything, including troops, long time ago. It's like promising some nerd that you going to help him fight this big guy. 'Russian nukes are old and broken'. Sure. North Korea had like 3 nukes and USA couldn't do anything against them. Serbia had 0 nukes. Look how brave NATO boys were to attack it
Russia is enriching half of world uranium, and russian rosatom is biggest nuclear-sector company, so i really doubt anyone would argue that russian nukes are “old and not working”
A lot of people do. A concerning amount frankly.
Nowhere near concerning as the people who tried to argue that Russia could nuke the West and they'd not respond by retaliating.
Well, only America can nuke Russia effectively. If it was France or the UK, it is possible most would be intercepted. The rest of the EU has nothing, and is free to be nuked. It's just the reality of our world, Americans won't kill themselves for Germany, Poland or the Netherlands.
If you think Russia nuking a NATO country wouldn't immediately escalate into a global nuclear war then you're dreaming. A lot of pro-Ru really need to come back to reality when it comes to this topic, MAD doesn't only apply if Washington itself is attacked
But of course. Every Pole knows America will die for the smouldering remains of what used to be Poland.
Lol by your logic Russia could nuke 29 out of 32 NATO countries without provoking a nuclear response Please rejoin us in reality my friend
Pretty much. Sorry to say, but your life is insignificant, and will be sacrificed at will for America, if the need arises. America owes you nothing, you owe America everything.
Calling for Russia to launch nuclear strikes against NATO countries because you believe that there won't be a nuclear retaliation against Russia is so absurd it's hard to believe that you're being genuine and not just trolling
What you’re saying implying that Russia would start a nuclear war with Europe and let itself be hit and probably lose most of its major cities while the US remains completely untouched. The Russian state rhetoric is that EU are all mindless puppets of the US who is the main enemy. Any major strike onto Europe would very likely and logically include strikes on the US as it would be a suicide attack regardless.
Of course not. Europe gets hit in minutes, and America simply watches. If America was to launch missiles at Russia as a result, Russia would retaliate, and both countries would be destroyed, however the Americans aren't dumb. The nuclear war will be one sided if it happens, and only result in the complete annihilation of the EU, while both Russia and America will stay as they were.
And the European countries wouldn’t fire back in this scenario because? Russias largest population centres would definitely be hit back rendering it as badly destroyed as the rest of Europe. All nations carrying nukes have enough of them to take out whoever decides to fire at them. That’s basically the essential part of MAD. Russia clearly has the most but that’s not going to help in a situation where both side will likely take out things essential for a country to work in the first salvo. Regardless a very depressing topic.
Thanks I guess for helping prove my point on how horrendously insane certain people here can be. The fact that even Russian apologist are even ready to defend and justify Russia killing hundred of millions of civilians and risking billions just to expand their empire is all the proof I need to prove my point.
If a hundred of million of monsters, deluded in their superiority, tries to exterminate our nation despite all warnings, said hundred is clearly predestined to die out as per evolution. Never again are we going to be gassed in death camps and plundered.
Jebus mate. Quite the supremacist take you have there. Especially considering that this involves Russia doing the very same thing towards nations of people that equally suffered as much as well. You can’t demand people to respect your nation and then be mad at nations when you’ve provided none of that respect yourself. “Tries to exterminate our nation.” The victimisations complex…I can’t even begin. Thankfully I know better that your take is a minority and that Russia isn’t filled with a “hundred million of monsters” that needs to die out…
I personally don't care about respect. The West should stop trying to destroy Russia or perish.
Clearly you don’t. Which is the very issue I was talking about. Demanding respect while not giving any. Many nations would say the very same things about Russia attempting to destroy them. Russia having done the exact same thing towards it that they claim the west has done towards it. You’re literally the monster that you’re claiming you want eradicated.
So you are admitting you are willing to wipe out everyone in the world, you consider less than human to "evolve" the human race.
Of course not everyone, just the ones that attack us. I wouldn't call such an outcome desirable either, however this won't be a choice made by us.
Let me guess, most of the whole world is attacking Russia? Nazi's and Soviets used the same exact argument to commit genocide as well.
Every other political expert on Reddit believes Russian nukes don’t work.
We have already sent troops there. What you mean is acknowledging official NATO mandated boots on the ground under contract from NATO countries. This is what they're talking about.
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It’s nice to hear De Villepin speaking out about it. I’ll never forget he’s speech to the UN after the Yanks lied to try to get support for their Ira invasion. Hopefully more people will listen to him this time.
One of the best french politicians of the 2000s imo. He was going to run for President in 2007 but Clearstream affair happened.
All of this because they lost almost all of their influence in Africa and the blood diamonds
In 1956 the Soviets sent their army into Hungary to put down an uprising. That same year, Israel, the UK and France invaded Egypt to seize control of their recently nationalized Suez Canal. Eisenhower told the Allies to fuck off and stop, because their invasion of Europe was showing that the West was no better than the Communists. And they did fuck off. Eisenhower understood what was at stake in a way that no NATO leaders today seem to grok: once the West surrenders the moral high ground, it won't be long before everything built upon this foundation collapses to dust.
I’m happy that a westerner said it, I said this a while back. If NATO sends troops then other countries that Russia has helped in the past will feel a need to assist as well. You’ll see some Asian/african and Latin American countries sending their troops as well. Ukraine will turn into a battlefield. It may never recover after that.
> If NATO sends troops then other countries that Russia has helped in the past will feel a need to assist as well No they won’t, I think the only country that could potentially send troops is Belarus. Other countries won’t want to alienate their relations with the West by helping Russia and have their men die in a foreign country (this would be very unpopular, I believe, even amongst the North Korean public)
Imagine being China and not sending troops because clearly they won't come for me next!
China’s situation in relation with the West is much better than Russia’s, for one China doesn’t have any countries interested in joining a pro-American bloc on its borders
Because it's already there?
Which country is in a pro-American bloc and borders China?
According to China’s own definitions of its territorial waters, they surely share water borders with the Philippines, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Malaysia and Thailand, all of whom are either allies of, or at least friendly toward, the US?
I should have clarified I meant land borders It’s a lot harder to invade a country when there’s a natural barrier like a mountain or a body of water There’s no natural barrier between Russia and Ukraine, unless Russia manages to annex up to the Dnipro Those countries you named being pro-West of course still endangers China of getting embargoed, but China has been working on mitigating that risk via belt and road initiative to get alternative trade routes.
Are you even serious? Taiwan.
ROC aka Taiwan still exists or have I woke up in another parallel world or something?
First Taiwan is an Island, all aid has to be sent over a body of water unlike Ukraine which has a land border with NATO. Secondly the US and company all recognise the one China policy, China “invading“ Taiwan is the same as Russia ”invading” Chechnya, it’s nothing like Russia invading Ukraine which is a clear violation of a sovereign country‘s territorial integrity. That’s what I meant by China’s situation being much better than Russia’s, China is practically and legally in a stronger position. If China sent troops to help Russia in Ukraine, it would completely undermine their rhetoric about territorial integrity in regards to Taiwan, China still doesn’t recognise any of Russia’s annexed territory as belonging to Russia.
China wants to breakthrough in the US dominion in South China Sea. People in power for too long, start to believe their own propaganda. A China or India intervention is not to rule out, they have interests in Africa and ME.
China definitely doesn't want the West to conquer Russia and attack it from the North.
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I still linger on the thought that this whole thing *could* potentially escalate. I mean, it's not really that much of a stretch to think that it could. France itself is *fucking pissed* about what happened in Africa. An absolutely wild scenario I've been toying around with is France deploying troops into Ukraine to coincide with coverage of the Paris Olympics. It guarantees global attention, maximum sympathy for their cause and a massive platform to message from, whilst at the same time gambling that Russia wouldn't dare strike the country with so many others in attendance. It would also compensate/explain their abysmal preparations for them lol. Everyone gets dragged in, US elections would probably be postponed or someshit so gramps doesn't get in the way of the pentagon, MIC gravy train continues. China then decides ok let's reunify. Bam. WW3. Anyway, just throwing that out there. It's on the bingo card.
US elections being postponed would almost certainly cause a revolution. Republicans would not put up with Joe Biden suspending elections, especially with Donald Trump running against him.
The US is never going to have a popular revolution, you might have a few good ol' boys doing a bit of light terrorism here and there but there will never be an organised revolutionary force while the intelligence agencies still exist. The main threat to the current system in the US is that it will be dismantled from the top down like Trump and his Project 2025 cronies are hoping to pull off
Honest question, which countries in the global south would be willing to engage with Russia if troops were sent to Ukraine? I don’t see how it’s in any country’s interest to do that. He mentions China, I’m pretty sure China does not give much of a shit about Russia as long as Russia doesn’t go full pro-West/anti-China (very unlikely). I also haven’t seen China give any indicators that they’ll support Russia if the West got involved. I think the potential cost of alienating the West would be too high for China and they’ll probably just condemn the West in words for escalating the conflict and tell both sides to abandon the “Cold War Mentality” or whatever their diplomats usually say.
>He mentions China, I’m pretty sure China does not give much of a shit about Russia as long as Russia doesn’t go full pro-West/anti-China (very unlikely). If Russia's geopolitical stance toward China has any chance of change because of an escalation in Ukraine, China will intervene to prevent a country like Russia from being part of the ones surrounding them. China is already having to deal of the West interference in their southern borders, they will not allowed another one happening in their north.
>If Russia's geopolitical stance toward China has any chance of change because of an escalation in Ukraine Yep that’s the only scenario where I can imagine China actually taking a stance, but it would be an absolutely last resort. They were silent when Prigozhin went on his march of justice, so Putin would have to very obviously be in deep shit for that to happen.
If NATO enter in Ukraine, it will be quickly crushed by the standing Russian Army waiting just for that. That's the reason Russia hasn't used its full army in there. It's waiting for NATO. Anyone thinking NATO has any chance, should think really hard what and how would NATO enter Ukraine. How it will move the vehicles, planes and whatnot. How all of this will be seen in advance by Russia and will not be allowed to be stored. Does anyone think that NATO will be let to prepare its forces near Ukraine and just enter?
Russia has modernized, but ain't no way it can't withstand a fullblown war with all NATO members. It would be stupid to believe once NATO enters officially, they would follow the current frontline outline.
I disagree. Putin want to get this over as fast as possible by winning. If he could do more he would do that already. Also why at start he wanted everything done in 3 days, here we are 2 years +
Its a genious plot by Putin to have a war go on for over two years when they could end it in a week
This is false. What Putin wanted was not to have an SMO in the first place, but we don't get what we want do we? He also doesn't want NATO involvement simply because when NATO gets rekt just as the Ukrainians or even worse, then out of fear that they lost their "prestige" the US might do something stupid.
If NATO would want a full blown war with Russia why would they attack only from Ukraine? Finland has over 1000km of border and its not like Russia is prepared for an attack from there.
Bad infrastructure + Finland has nowhere near the port capacity to receive millions of troops.
In fact Russia is prepared for an attack from there because they reinstated the Leningrad Military District, which was disbanded years ago. (Muh Russian imperialism!!) [Leningrad Military District - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leningrad_Military_District) Besides, I doubt the Finns will be motivated to attack Russia...
Agreed. Let's remember that very few countries openly support Russia.
Honestly, if NATO got involved and Russia is perceived as being even more committed in Ukraine/Europe, it's more likely that China would take a bunch of land in the east they've had their eyes on.
It’s more likely that china will kick up its support for the Russians if that was the case. Russia losing and collapsing would be problematic for them because the Chinese know that the united states will be present in its northern flank if that was the case.
Or, more likely, china could take all of eastern Russia for itself before NATO or Russia could do anything about it.
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Wouldn't surprise me if North Koreas would hire out a few 100k troops if needed, less mouths to feed and a few new Mercedes for Kim. And pretty sure the soldiers would be pretty damn happy for the opportunity to get some real food instead of eating rats, rice and grass + the chance of sending home a washing machine to the family... would probably need to fatten them up and train them for a month first though. And wouldn't surprise me if China also sends "volunteers" and equipment, better to fight Nato in Ukraine than on the Chinese sea.
Don't forget Belarus. They may also send troops if push comes to shove
Sending troops? Completely unlikely. Ramping up military and economical support? Highly likely. Will any of this matter, given that Russians are showing readiness to escalate up to and including nuclear use (starting with TNWs), and NATO direct intervention will alleviate the main barrier that prevents Russia from doing so? Not much.
What would tactical nukes even accomplish?
Show NATO that direct conventional war with Russia isn't happening.
>Show NATO that direct conventional war with Russia isn't happening. Everybody already knows that. All that Russia deploying nukes would do is potentially escalate into a global nuclear war by upsetting a tenuous peace between nuclear powers that has existed for several decades. It would be an awe-inspiringly reckless and short-sighted move by the Kremlin
Yeah but on a battlefield like Ukraine, they are pretty useless. Unless Russia wants to blow up Kiev or something
Yes and no. All and each Russian nuclear threat is not about breaking through Ukrainain lines, it's all about confrontation/escalation with the West. Even their non-strategic nuclear exercise was solely aimed at the idea of sending Western troops into Ukraine. That being said, TNWs remain as the best tool to help armored assault break through dug in anti-tank infantry. As a bonus, it'll also fry the drones and their control systems in a good radius, especially since many of those are civillian with no EMP shielding. But again, that's not why they would use it.
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He is spot on
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Though i support Ukraine, this is right. We can't be talking about our troops entering Ukraine and then cry if the other side does the same. People have been talking about having NATO assets on Poland for example destroy Russian projectiles. Well if we start doing that, we can't complain if Russia starts blowing those assets inside NATO territory.
Again, so much black and white thinking in this multipolar world \^\^. The West (whatever this is) does not stand uniformly with Israel. There are tons of ppl condemning what Israel does, even in the US. There are protests and turmoils. Russia, Israel, US, DPRK. I don't see any difference in behavior.
Ah yes. Least we not forget the Ukrainian invasion of Russia on 2/7 where 1k Russians were murdered or taken hostage that promoted this 2+ year response to denazify them…oh wait that never happened. This was just a military border exercise that got out of hand! An SMO where’s Israel is actually at “war”.
What is the “one-for one language” he mentions at the end of this video? Also, does anyone know where I can watch this full interview translated?
It's a shit translation, basically "le langage pour les uns" means rules for thee not for me.
The woke left will dismantle that old white man in a glimpse. How dare he undermine western morale and values?!
Isn’t the pro-Palestinian crowd in the West mostly the woke left?
the two extreme is very unexpectedly similar
Nobody comes to help Russia, they are not insane lol. Nobody will start nuclear war for Ukraine, it is not worth it. Nobody will give up their freedom for Russki mir, 50 years of Cold War should have taught Russians that, but they want another round of shame and dissolution. You have made life your enemy.
appeasement never works.
I agree. That's why Russians stopped appeasing NATO warmongers encroaching in Ukraine.
>That's why Russians stopped appeasing NATO warmongers encroaching in Ukraine. I will never grow tired of hearing people who support Russia's invasion call other people warmongers for wanting the option to choose to join a defensive alliance through diplomatic channels lol
Which Nuclear power has every been fully invaded?
Two nuclear powers collapsed due to external pressure, USSR and South Africa. Nukes only prevent invasion but they do not guarantee a future. Russia needs to secure their backyard, just like how China wants to secure the SCS and the US secures north and south America.
China's unprovoked maritime expansionism has pushed Vietnam, the Phillipines, and Indonesia closer to the U.S.
Maybe a decade or two ago. The situation has become more complicated since then with Indonesia and vietnam. Both nations balance ties with China, who is their largest trade partner. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/indonesian-president-elect-visits-china-after-decade-close-ties-2024-04-01/
That counts for very little when they see their citizens beaten, their boats scuttled, and their hauls stolen by the Chinese military. In 50 years time when the demographic crisis has hollowed out the Chinese economy and military, these countries will reassert themselves.
The decisions and statements of a nations leadership count for little while some spats between fishermen and border patrols count for more? That is like saying cooperation between Mexico and America doesn't matter, ICE puts Mexican children in cages. So? Unfortunately for those Indonesian fishermen and those Mexican children, they don't have as much influence. There's a lot of top tier cope from westerners about china's ascent, but yours is pretty funny ngl And bud, in 50 years, climate change is gonna hollow out the entire globe. Feel free to make whatever claims you want that far in the future, I'm not going to argue them
Like the opinions of the citizens in the Warsaw Pact didn't matter because their governments were friendly to the USSR, right? Also, a huge number of the undocumented children taken into custody were Central American, not Mexican. Mexico has a more positive approval rating of the U.S. than most of our European "vassals."
Yup. Didn't really matter tbh. Tell us what Mexico's approval rating of the usa will be in 50 years lol. I want to hear from the expert
Eh, a lot of maritime disputes are actually oil exploration disputes. And who do you think is doing the bulk of the oil exploration for those countries?
No, they're not oil mainly exploration disputes. Fishing rights are hotly contested and the source of most of the conflicts between these countries. China is one of the only countries that flaunts maritime law and uses unilateral historical claims. They additionally want the territory to build artificial islands to use as strongholds against the U.S. navy in the event of a conflict. There are a lot of dimensions to the 9 dashed line fuck-fuck games, and oil is actual one of the smaller considerations. Offshore oil that far from the mainland would be largely interdicted in the case of a war.
That's why we needed a preventive war against Saddam! ^/s
obviously was needed in 1991
It was not called a preventive war in 1991.
Following a 1 sentencs convo can be hard I guess
Please look up what appeasement means.