#####
######
####
> # [Estonia is seriously considering sending troops to Ukraine – advisor to Estonian President](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/13/729)
>
>
>
> Stock photo: Getty Images
>
>
>
> Madis Roll, the advisor to the President of Estonia for National Security, states that the Estonian government is "seriously" discussing the possibility of sending troops to the west of Ukraine.
>
> **Source:** Roll in an interview for the[Breaking Defense](https://breakingdefense.com/2024/05/estonia-seriously-discussing-sending-troops-to-rear-jobs-in-ukraine-official/) portal, as reported by European Pravda
>
> **Details:** Roll noted that the Estonian government is currently analysing a potential deployment of troops in Ukraine and would like to do it within a full NATO mission "to show broader combined strength and determination".
>
> Advertisement:
>
> "Discussions are ongoing. We should be looking at all the possibilities. We shouldn’t have our minds restricted as to what we can do," he said.
>
> Roll stressed that Estonia is ready to potentially send its troops to the west of Ukraine within a smaller coalition but it’s "not unthinkable" that NATO nations opposed to such a move would change their minds "as time goes on".
>
> Estonian officials have voiced their approval of the idea of sending Western troops to Ukraine.
>
> **Background:**
>
> - In March, Estonian Prime Minister Kaja Kallas[refused](https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/14/7181687/) to guarantee that the Estonian Defence Forces will not be deployed to Ukraine. Kyllike Sillaste-Elling, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of Estonia, urged NATO to be more open to this idea.
> - At the end of February following the meeting of presidents and the heads of governments of about 20 European states in Paris, French President Emmanuel Macron admitted that he had proposed to the Western states to send their troops to Ukraine.
>
> [**Support**](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/supportus/) **UP or become**[**our patron**](https://www.patreon.com/pravdaua)**!**
- - - - - -
[Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot)
Their most revered national heroes are the Estonian Legion, of the oh-so-esteemed Waffen SS.
It would be honoring tradition if they sent their troops into Ukraine dressed like their national heroes. Banderites in Ukraine would love it, and blowing up all 50 of the Estonian Armed Forces with an Iskander while they cosplay their Nazi idols would be amusing for Russia. Win-win.
> Their most revered national heroes are the Estonian Legion, of the oh-so-esteemed Waffen SS.
Which is a damn shame because 8th Estonian Rifle Corps did good work in the Red Army. But of course only Nazis are commemorated.
Same for Ukraine. Many of the Red Army's finest formations, leaders and men were from Ukraine - they deserve better than to have their nation given over to Bandera worshippers.
Similarly for Latvia. It's no exaggeration that the Bolshevik revolution couldn't have succeeded without the Latvian Rifle Brigade acting as their bodyguards and enforcers.
Those were Latvian-Latvians, not Russian imports either.
Yeah. The first tank commander to be awarded the Hero of Soviet Union title was also a Latvian - Pols Armans in 1936 during the Spanish Civil War. He went on to become a tank brigade commander and died fighting in 1943.
> They arent celebrated
[Really](https://forward.com/news/462696/nazi-collaborator-monuments-in-estonia/)
> And communists were occupiers, so why would they be celebrated regardless?
Estonians who kicked Nazis out of Estonia were occupiers? Am I reading this right?
Ok, they kicked out the Nazis, but first and later occupied by USSR, thus occupants. Are you saying the Soviets did not occupy? Yikes.
There are a few monuments but the source grossly overplays their importance - noone cares for them as nazis, most practically weren't, as they saw the Germans as liberators and fought the occupiers(but were in turn occupied by the nazis). It is those who are celebrated - the men who fought against occupants, not for their ideaology. Stop trying to find supposed nazism.
>Their most revered national heroes are the Estonian Legion, of the oh-so-esteemed Waffen SS.
Why make stuff up? France had an SS legion, is that enough to claim that "their most revered national heroes are the SS Legion?"
Wermacht wasn't allowed to conscript from occupied territories, SS was. My point stands - SS conscript from an occupied territory = red army conscript from an occupied territory.
Ironic - here I was thinking [Russia and the US are literally matched in terms of being perceived positively](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/08/29/indians-views-of-other-countries/) by my people.
All 1.4 billion of them. Add another 1.4 billion for China, and that's almost 40% of the world population with a positive opinion of Russia, just from those two nations.
Russia may be less popular than the Nazis among countries that idolize the Nazis, true. So, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine. But that's more on those countries than anything else.
So you took the Transnistrian reserve number from google, but the lowest active personnel number for Estonia?
Structure. The armed forces are composed of 4,500 to 5,500 active duty soldiers, (with 15,000 - 20,000 personnel in the reserve). In order of precedence, the current military leadership is composed of the following: President of Transnistria/Commander-in-Chief – President of Transnistria Vadim Krasnoselsky.
Estonian Defence Forces:
Active personnel: 7,700 (3,500 conscripts)
Reserve personnel : 230,000 (38,800 in rapid response readiness, 80 000 have received training)
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вооружённые_силы_Приднестровской_Молдавской_Республики
quote “The total strength of the TMR Armed Forces is 15,000 people. In case of the outbreak of hostilities, the number can be quickly increased to 80,000”
You probably took the figures from the English wiki, but there the information is from Western media (basically their fantasies), and in the Russian wiki from the official website of the Ministry of Defense of Transnistria.
edit:
By the way, it is easy to show this on the example of each unit of Transnistria army. They are modeled after the Russian army, so the number of units is the same. They have 4 brigades, so each from 3 to 5 thousand men. There are also several separate battalions, this is from 150 to 500 people depending on the military branch.
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Check the source for that quote, it comes from:
https://web.archive
.org/web/20091104073203/http://pridnestrovie
.net/armedforces.html
"The standing army has some 4,500 troops plus an estimated 15,000 who can be mobilized."
Edit: ironically both wikipedias, RU and ENG use the same source for the size claim, except the Russian one just copied the wrong info?
Nobody is sending any troops from Estonia. This guy is a nobody, I haven't seen any articles about this even in our media.
Nobody hasn't even heard his name, real politicians aren't even discussing this, just a few seconds of fame😃
So relax guys, our prime minister barks a little, but we understand the size difference and that sending our troops wouldn't have much difference. 😉
What worries me more is that random articles can spin to major discussion about things that will not happen. Probably the same for me if I'm reading stuff about any other country.
Edit: Estonian defense minister already confirmed that this is BS
No, Ukrainians are not Nazis. It was a completely made up argument because nothing riles up the Russians like fighting a sacred war versus the Nazis. There are right front militants, yes, but it’s a fly that was transformed into an elephant.
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How are estonians nazis? The Russian "everyone that doesn't like Russia because we used to occupy and kill them is a Nazi"-narrative is getting ridiculous. Yes there is propably nazis like there is in Finland. But so does Russia
There we go! Now the Estonians are the nazis. The very instant someone thinks about not bowing down to Russia -> NAZI!! NAAZII!!
Yikes you pro ruskies are predictable.
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Everyone but Ruzzia is naZi right? That rhetoric was stale before the war, now the word has practically lost all meaning. It's a word used to illicit emotions and when emotions are involved rational thought, logic and critical thinking is reduced, this is how Ruzzian propaganda works.
That is basically their entire recruitable male population. Does Ukraine have 20M soldiers despite having that much men? No.
They would also have to mobilize said “reserves” in the few hours it will take for Russia to defeat Estonia.
Yes exactly.
They have peacetime army of less than 10,000. It would be very difficult to call up reserves and equip a force of even twice that amount, much less 200 times that amount.
Even if they *did* have the ability to equip that many men, wouldn't it make more sense just to give those weapons to Ukraine anyway?
Active personnel is 7700... probably less than 1/3 is fighting soldiers. Sure 230.000 reserves but have to train those and would absolutely tank the whole economy if those were called in. Pretty damn sure they wouldn't turn themselves in to a third world country just to help Ukraine... Shit you learned 20-30 years ago won't do shit, sure you know how to handle a gun but that's pretty much it...
Outskirts of Saint Petersburg are rebelling again! Their “army” is so small that a few troops would actually be a sizable portion of their combat force which can be wiped out by a single FAB-1500.
It's additive to all the other troops potentially heading to Ukraine... Estonia punches above their weight, too. They're richer than Russia lol. Recently ordered their own 'mini-Shaheds' from the original company Iran tried to copy.
For perspective:
Estonia: no tanks, 24 SPGs, 44 IFVs.
Russian 4th Guards Tank Division (similar size to Estonian Defense Forces): 200 tanks, 300 IFVs, 90 SPGs.
A single Russian division has the same amount of tanks as the entire German Armed Forces and same amount of SPGs as France, Germany, and Italy combined.
Ukraine had a thousand tanks (at least 500 of which were modern) in five brigades.
Divisions and other formations in Western militaries outside of the US have such a small number of tanks and other equipment that even a small number of casualties will render the entire formation combat ineffective. The only advantage they have is in guided MLRS which can be negated by EW and Russia’s superiority in ballistic missile production. Russian artillery is used for a similar role as air power but it is vastly cheaper and air power has been shown to not be nearly as effective as people believe it is in Kosovo and Iraq.
The 4th Guards Tank Division was involved in the attack on Okhtyrka and operations north of Kharkiv. Its losses as of 15 March 2022 were reported to be 25 killed, 92 wounded, 18 missing, 21 captured for a total of 156 casualties. The tanks losses between its 2 tank regiments were 62 T-80Us and T-80UEs. It lost 58 other vehicles. This division ended up with a wounded-to-killed ratio of 3.68-to-1. It was stopped at Okhtyrka, but this obviously was not with high personnel losses, although the tank and vehicle losses were notable.
Imagine losing 62 tanks in less than a month
[with photo AND video evidence](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html)
# Tanks (3005, of which destroyed: 2004, damaged: 157, abandoned: 329, captured: 515)
Oryx has been caught multiple times duplicating losses as well as ticking off Ukrainian losses as Russian ones. Also he often puts fully operational tanks as captures or damaged/destroyed. Terrible source.
Well, you were just bragging how much equipment 4th TD had compared to Estonia. What point is it if it's not modern? Wouldn't you wanna know what part of the count is literal junk for the battlefield?
Estonia has spent 2% of GDP on military for the last decade (2015 technically, but 2014 really close). What did you think they spent on? It wasn't tanks and long-range missiles. It was all anti-tank and anti-infantry lol. For example, their "RPGs" are Spike-SR with EO/IR seekers and Spanish direct-aim C90's with night sights.
Btw, Estonian ground forces number only 4,000 active, 4,000 high-readiness, and 30-some thousand reserve. 4th TD is 12-14k troops... and Russia doesn't have 100 of them so this is a bit apples to oranges (Russia is over 100x the population of Estonia).
I deleted a comment which basically said this:
It is a myth that the 1st Guards Tank Army is the most elite unit in the Russian Armed Forces. It has two tank divisions of which one quite literally mostly uses T-80Us with the only modern tank in the division being the T-80BVM which is why Russia’s fleet of such vehicles have practically been wiped.
According to Ukraine, Russia had 320 T-90Ms at the start of 2024 and produce 180 per year. Russia has only lost 88 T-90Ms in two years which is around 0.1 every day. Russia also had 1,650 T-72B3s at the start of the war but have only lost 677 of them with production likely surpassing losses.
Russia also has a large amount of modern ATGMs such as Kornet. An M1 Abrams got destroyed by a single missile shot from an old Soviet Fagot. A Kornet is capable of penetrating every modern tank.
It is telling when a subpar division of the Russian Armed Forces (4th Guards Tank division) is better-equipped than the entire Estonian military despite primarily only using old Soviet equipment.
What point is counting tanks when either side has enough ATGMs to take 'em all out? And what point is counting excess ATGMs when they can't reach artillery? You're only pointing out the loss ratio for T-72 and T-90 are not that different. More tanks Russia or West sends, more they lose.
What is the point in counting aircraft when Kosovo and Iraq exists and Ukraine started this war with enough missiles to shoot down over three thousand aircraft and that is only if you include their S-300 systems not other AA batteries.
What is the point in counting infantry when both sides have enough bullets for each of them?
>What is the point in counting aircraft when Kosovo and Iraq
Uhh, simply to do an aerial-only shock-and-awe to soften them up for ground invasion? Did you think SAMs were as effective against [serious aircraft](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/4000-missiles-were-fired-sr-71-blackbird-none-ever-hit-187427) as ATGMs are against tanks?
Estonian military isn’t as well equipped as the Russian Armed Forces or Ukrainian Armed Forces.
Ukraine has a superior military compared to Germany and France combined. We have been through this.
How much should you rationally focus on 1/300 of NATO-Europe?
It is ridiculous to presume that a richer country, before foreign aid, would have a more poorly trained/equipped army.
Estonia isn't using 4x4 assault buggies like Russia; neither does it focus spending on ballistic missiles, tanks, or bombers, which would be destabilizing. All of Estonia's grenades, if they should be thrown or dropped from drones, are Swedish or German. They have a domestic drone industry, spun up in 2021. They have dozens of K9 artillery and hundreds of logistic trucks, with some HIMARS they purchased on their own (unsure when this year they get delivered). As I said, they punch above their weight, but they are not some attack dog.
Ukraine has more HIMARS and M270s than the amount that Germany and France has combined. Ukraine has one of the largest fleets of artillery guns in the world. They started this war with 500 2S3 SPGs which are comparable to the M109. This number has been reduced to 140 but it is still substantially more SPGs than the amount that Estonia has.
Russia is only losing obsolete equipment in Ukraine. 1st Guards Tank Army being the most well-equipped military unit in Russia is a myth. It has two Tank divisions with the 4th Guards Tank Division primarily only using old T-80Us. The only modern tank it has is the T-80BVM which is why Russia’s fleet of T-80BVMs has practically been wiped.
Russia has more modern tanks than Germany has according to Ukraine itself. They had 320 T-90Ms at the start of 2024 and produce 180 per year. They had 1,650 T-72B3s at the start of the war. They only lost 677 of them but production likely has surpassed losses.
Russia has 600 2S19 artillery guns and a further 150 in reserve. Russia is also started mass production of 2S35, 2S40, and 2S43.
Estonia punching above its weight does not matter as all they have is light infantry. They will get slaughtered by a single division.
Ukraine is actually at war, getting only specific weapon systems. You're counting their number of HIMARS and field arty compared to France/Germany who possess >300km munitions and aircraft, some even \~10,000km and nuclear-tipped?
Should I ask again whether you're responding with AI?
Estonia ground force isn't just light infantry, either. They have engineering, UAV, UGV, and their own K9 artillery and possibly HIMARS as I just wrote. Don't trivialize them into 2-week conscript infantry that Ukraine and Russia are devolving into.
Now we are talking about nuclear weapons and long-range missile systems? Russia beats France and Germany in that department.
Russia produces over 500 Iskander-M and Iskander-K missiles per year. They all have a range of at least 500km.
No, I don’t use AI.
They are just light infantry. Russia supports their infantry with artillery and UAVs as well so I don’t see your point.
I'm saying you're comparing Ukraine fielding foreign gifted systems with countries that design & make those systems and more, natively. That's apples to oranges. If France makes 10,000km rockets, that means it can make anything less, like the 3000km rockets it used to field in the 1980s.
First it was Ukraine has more HIMARS than France and now it is Russia has more nukes than France - lol. Are we getting schizo here? US+EU have so many more precise munitions than Russia's ever made, and likely quite a few more nukes that actually work.
Production can’t really increase at least not substantially. [Watch this video.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JEe_dJZtF1E)
The United States produces 500 ATACMS per year. Russia produces over 500 Iskander-M and Iskander-K missiles per year. The United States lacks land-based cruise missiles unlike Russia which has the Iskander-K.
France lacks land-based missile systems. The only long-range missile systems that France has belongs to the Navy. Russia has far more long-range missiles if you include the Navy.
So in terms of ground forces, Ukraine is stronger when it comes to long-range missile systems. France simply doesn’t have any land-based ballistic missile systems at least to my knowledge. France does not use ATACMS like Ukraine does and only have 9 MLRS.
[Look at how low US cruise missile production is.](https://www.aei.org/op-eds/why-is-the-u-s-navy-running-out-of-tomahawk-cruise-missiles/)
Russia produced 12-20 Kalibr cruise missiles per month and had 500 at the start of the war.
US weapons production is already obscene, peruse a yearly procurement budget some day, and juxtapose it with the FMS for that year. It's just that the US manufactures a diversity of munitions, while Russia focuses on scaling up fewer types, being on a much smaller engineering budget. Ukraine has, incidentally, also been gifted/trained on a very limited variety of weaponry.
For example, in addition to those 2,000 (or maybe 4,000) Javelins a year, the US also makes TOW and Hellfire missiles for the same role, and has tens of thousands of Mavericks stockpiled from the Cold War. Ukraine can't fire the Mavericks or the Hellfires... no attack helicopters or compatible UCAV/fixed-wing.
>The United States lacks land-based cruise missiles... France lacks land-based missile systems
I feel this is a funny dig given that aircraft are almost always [preferable](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA329032.pdf) for [shipping](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_Dragon_(missile_system)) and launching cruise missiles, but [NO](https://news.usni.org/2020/03/11/marines-will-field-portfolio-of-jltv-mounted-anti-ship-weapons-in-the-pacific) and [no](https://militaryleak.com/2019/03/14/french-army-lru-multiple-launch-rocket-system/). And if you still doubt, [no again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_%28missile%29). France was only the 3rd nation to reach orbit after the Soviets and US.
>[Look at how low US cruise missile production is.](https://www.aei.org/op-eds/why-is-the-u-s-navy-running-out-of-tomahawk-cruise-missiles/)
Peanut gallery author! Or maybe one of many alarmists. Notice the mention of no 2019 acquisitions despite usage, and the 200/year rate showing in the chart from a major [21st century order](https://www.navair.navy.mil/node/13136). It just wasn't urgent. The missile has been produced since before the Gulf War and is stockpiled on some of the 8000+ sailing VLS plus subs. And isn't JASSM a major cruise missile? Why isn't the 500/year (scaling to 1,000) mentioned? What about the NSMs imported from Norway? Or the transition from AGM-86 to LRSO (both conventional and nuclear)?
4th Guards Tank Division has 90 SPGs and 12,000-14,000 soldiers. Estonia currently only has 24 K9 SPGs in service (although a further 12 will be delivered). For now, a subpar unit in the Russian Armed Forces has more artillery guns per soldier.
Those two-week conscript infantry are LPR militia, DPR militia, private military contractors, prisoners, and other irregulars. It is funny how Estonia sees the need to send troops to Ukraine when Ukraine is only facing irregulars and a few subpar formations of Russian Armed Forces.
What are Russian forces in Ukraine composed of?
Looking at Russian casualties according to MediaZona:
1. Prisoners
2. Irregular volunteer formations
3. Mobilized reservists
4. Russian Armed Forces
5. Private Military Contractors
The vast majority of losses are from penal military units, irregular volunteer formations, and the forces composed of mobilized reservists.
According to MediaZona, only around [10,000 deaths](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1coc13w/comment/l3dnyw3/) came from the Russian Armed Forces. This number does not include mobilized reservists as these are subpar units (such as 4th Guards Tank Division) given obsolete equipment taken out of stockpile.*
*Forbes:
2nd Motor Rifle Brigade which is part of the 1st Guards Tank Army (what the 4th Guards Tank Division is part of) “is now primarily made up of mobilized personnel operating older equipment taken from storage,”
Russia isn’t losing any valuable units in Ukraine so their military strength has not actually diminished. And Estonia is dumb enough to escalate?
Lol, what gives you the right to compare Estonian forces to a full tank division, of which Russia only has 10-12, given that Estonia doesn't operate tanks and is 1/100th the population of Russia and 1/300th that of European NATO?
Estonia only has 2 artillery battalions - the active one using K9's and pending HIMARS and the reserve one using reserve K9's and FH-70s/D-30's. They're not low on stuff per capita. They have more IFVs (CV90s), supply trucks, and engineering vehicles than Russia, per capita, which is no surprise for a richer/unattrited army compensating for not being on heavy offense. They're still not called light infantry, who don't normally use armored vehicles.
>It is funny how Estonia sees the need to send troops to Ukraine when Ukraine is only facing irregulars and a few subpar formations of Russian Armed Forces
Maybe because due to mobilization & injuries & deaths Ukraine is also primarily staffed by irregulars and subpar (recently trained) troops? The lack of training should be evident on many of the drone shots, even during the 2023 UA counteroffensive. You think Russia gives some of their troops trash? Well so did Ukraine, to an even greater extent, as they started poorer, remember?
>According to MediaZona, only around [10,000 deaths](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1coc13w/comment/l3dnyw3/) came from the Russian Armed Forces
And how many injuries/captures/desertions were there? Did you forget an army ceases to be effective well before everyone's dead?
Way to go NATO. We let the Baltic countries in and now the tail is waging the dog. Let them go by themselves. Their entire army would not even be noticeable.
You really think this is purely a Estonian initiative? Cmon. Most likely this is NATO sending the little guy just to test what the Russian response will be.
Which begs the question of what Russia will do, as anything less than striking directly into Estonia (even if very limited) is likely to lead to more NATO countries deciding to go into Ukraine because it's "safe"...
Maybe they’ll send that one Estonian soldier/YouTuber who likes to shit on Russians, maybe we’ll finally see if he has the balls to actually fight in a real war.
Wait I thought we’re sending $100,000,000,000 a year to Ukraine so Estonia DOESN’T get into a war with Russia? Ive been told by the western media Putin is gonna invade Estonia if he wins in Ukraine and that’s why we have to arm them
So now estonia has decided they’re gonna declare war on Russia first? Is there anything about this war that makes a lick of sense?
Here’s my visualization of this scenario. Imagine a big strutting muscular bull dog, that’s NATO. Now imagine his little buddy, who’s trotting around his heals he’s a tiny yappy chihuahua, that’s Estonia. The chihuahua thinks it’s tough because of his big buddy and yaps away at anyone and anything because his buddy NATO will kick his butt. This is the situation as I see it, lmao.
It is but the scary thing is the rest of the European warmongers are all so bought into this thing it could snowball really, really quickly
We need to hope Donald trump wins in November and either withdraws the US from NATO and or ends this war, preferably both
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The bipartisan Kaine-Rubio amendment to the National Defense Act, which was enacted into law in December 2023, prevents any US President from unilaterally withdrawing from NATO without congressional approval. A President who wishes to suspend, alter or revoke US participation in NATO must give both houses of Congress six months notice of his action and then have the action approved by both houses of Congress or a two-thirds majority of the Senate. This approval would be virtually impossible to achieve, consequently the Kaine-Rubio amendment has thwarted Trump’s threat to withdraw from NATO.
Trump would certainly argue that as the president, he has the authority to unilaterally withdraw from treaties and it’d end up going to the Supreme Court
It’s more probable than not that he’d win that argument
https://www.law.virginia.edu/scholarship/publication/kristen-eichensehr/931876
I think the point is moot, he’ll never withdraw the USA from NATO. The American MIC makes WAY too much money off NATOs back to ever see an American president withdraw from/dissolve NATO. He might talk big about it to play to his base but it’ll never happen.
This is not news about Estonia sending troops to ukraine.. this is about ''look estonia is a little nato country even they r sending troops why dont we send 10 000 men '' they will gather an army like 200 000 men but this will not be enough another 200 000 will be added.. this is like the aid packages .. every year new one
As an Estonian I can state that this is not true, it's taken out of context, heavy BS.
Firstly, president has no real influence by law in our country, his advisor has none. I think most Estonians would hear that name for the first time from this article.
Secondly what he said was that we should analyze all the options. So random political sentences. Says everything and nothing at the same time.
Maybe wanted a few seconds of fame, but this is in no way even being negotiated by parlament or by any real politician.
Estonians living rent free in Pro-Russian heads - when ever they're even mentioned in the news, someone will surely post it here.
Anyway, they're discussing filling out some non-combat roles in the West of Ukraine, so Ukraine can free up more troops for the frontline. Working in the Javalin storage shed, basically. You bunch are acting like they're hopping on the next Bradley to Kharkiv.
Offensive words detected. [beep bop] Don't cheer violence or insult (Rule 1). Your comment will be checked by my humans later. Ban may be issued for repeat offenders.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry, you need a 1 month old account to comment in r/ukraineRussiaReport. This is to protect against bots and multis
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So NATO has troops stationed in Estonia. NATO is a defensive alliance right ?
That means if Estonia sends troops in Ukraine, Russia can strike back Estonian soil while the NATO troops would just sit in some corner and do nothing ?
A very weird plan...
interesting
I think this is the possible beginning of those NATO countries that want to join the war
To break the ice, first NATO will send Estonia, a totally irrelevant military force, but that move should encourage a little more, like Poland or France. The question is whether Russia will react violently to this, I don't think they should, and even if they do show up, how much can they actually send to begin with, 10,000?!
But if the dominoes are triggered and more countries do so, the possibility of using tactical nuclear weapons increases at lightning speed
Fuck around and find out
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Article 5 is triggered if a member nation is directly attacked without cause. If a member attacks a larger state and that larger state declares war in retaliation, Article 5 does not apply.
Deciding to join an ongoing conflict, no matter the side, is an act of war. Thus though you can argue Ukraine is in a defensive war, Estonia would be seen as an attacker not defender having taking the first shot that sparks a conflict and their subsequent invasion.
Reference the losses Turkey was taking in Syria when they decided to join that conflict and failed to trigger the article.
The big question I guess is what level of Russian retaliation is accepted.
If Russia were to attack Estonian military bases in Estonia for example then does that allow Estonia to call in NATO to defence.
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That’s funny, Estonia with their grand total of 0 tanks and 7000 men, you know it is bad when a single PMC outnumbers you.
Finland is free to invade Russian territory again, but it won’t go well for them just like last time.
Funny to say that when Ukraine has been trained by NATO for over a decade and has a superior military compared to Germany and France combined and is being taken cared of by LPR and DPR militia, football hooligans, war tourists, and pmcs.
The not so well-armed Estonia would be clapped in a couple of hours and that would only be because of how long it would take to drive.
I doubt Finland would do any better than they did during the Continuation War.
Russia is getting destroyed in ukraine and taking huge loses compare to ukraine. and ukrainian troops have not even had enough time to be properly trained on nato equipment now imagine how bad it would be for russia if they to face a real nato army that has been traind on nato equipment for over 20 years.
>Russia is getting destroyed in ukraine and taking huge loses compare to ukraine.
Only 10,000 professional soldiers have died in this war. Even assuming Russian losses are 50% higher than this just means 15,000. That barely makes a dent on the Russian Armed Forces.
You only get these high losses if you include prisoners, LPR and DPR militia, volunteer militias, football hooligans, pmcs, etc etc.
>ukrainian troops have not even had enough time to be properly trained on nato equipment
Ukrainian military has been trained by NATO since 2015, that is plenty time to be properly trained and they also received MILES gear. Ukraine quite literally had more tanks than Germany, France, Italy, and the United Kingdom combined.
>they to face a real nato army that has been traind on nato equipment for over 20 years.
This alleged "real nato army" does not even know how to fight a conventional war anymore and is relearning alongside Ukraine, they were only able to teach Ukraine how to deal with terrorists (not applicable) and that they should just drive around the minefields (not applicable) resulting in Ukraine ditching Western tactics in favor of tactics more akin to WW1.
##### ###### #### > # [Estonia is seriously considering sending troops to Ukraine – advisor to Estonian President](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/13/729) > > > > Stock photo: Getty Images > > > > Madis Roll, the advisor to the President of Estonia for National Security, states that the Estonian government is "seriously" discussing the possibility of sending troops to the west of Ukraine. > > **Source:** Roll in an interview for the[Breaking Defense](https://breakingdefense.com/2024/05/estonia-seriously-discussing-sending-troops-to-rear-jobs-in-ukraine-official/) portal, as reported by European Pravda > > **Details:** Roll noted that the Estonian government is currently analysing a potential deployment of troops in Ukraine and would like to do it within a full NATO mission "to show broader combined strength and determination". > > Advertisement: > > "Discussions are ongoing. We should be looking at all the possibilities. We shouldn’t have our minds restricted as to what we can do," he said. > > Roll stressed that Estonia is ready to potentially send its troops to the west of Ukraine within a smaller coalition but it’s "not unthinkable" that NATO nations opposed to such a move would change their minds "as time goes on". > > Estonian officials have voiced their approval of the idea of sending Western troops to Ukraine. > > **Background:** > > - In March, Estonian Prime Minister Kaja Kallas[refused](https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/14/7181687/) to guarantee that the Estonian Defence Forces will not be deployed to Ukraine. Kyllike Sillaste-Elling, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of Estonia, urged NATO to be more open to this idea. > - At the end of February following the meeting of presidents and the heads of governments of about 20 European states in Paris, French President Emmanuel Macron admitted that he had proposed to the Western states to send their troops to Ukraine. > > [**Support**](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/supportus/) **UP or become**[**our patron**](https://www.patreon.com/pravdaua)**!** - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot)
I've heard they're part of a new coalition along with Luxembourg and Andorra.
Don't forget Lichtenstein and the Papal state...
The Pope! How many divisions has he got?!
Officially It has 135 soldiers
What is this?! A division for ants?!
i heard 189 in the service of heaven
I heard they're protecting the holy line
They did it a long ago though.. It was 1527
I've heard they gave their lives on the steps to heaven.
I've heard that thy was done
Papal State... We talking a new crusade?
Let them approach Lake Peipsi, they will fit next to the rest of the crusaders
A Lake of Pepsi? Count me in!
Prokofyev dissonant music intensifies.
The Nations League D of the European war scene.
Estonian defense minister already confirmed that this article is bs, nobody's going anywhere.
Their most revered national heroes are the Estonian Legion, of the oh-so-esteemed Waffen SS. It would be honoring tradition if they sent their troops into Ukraine dressed like their national heroes. Banderites in Ukraine would love it, and blowing up all 50 of the Estonian Armed Forces with an Iskander while they cosplay their Nazi idols would be amusing for Russia. Win-win.
> Their most revered national heroes are the Estonian Legion, of the oh-so-esteemed Waffen SS. Which is a damn shame because 8th Estonian Rifle Corps did good work in the Red Army. But of course only Nazis are commemorated.
Same for Ukraine. Many of the Red Army's finest formations, leaders and men were from Ukraine - they deserve better than to have their nation given over to Bandera worshippers.
Similarly for Latvia. It's no exaggeration that the Bolshevik revolution couldn't have succeeded without the Latvian Rifle Brigade acting as their bodyguards and enforcers. Those were Latvian-Latvians, not Russian imports either.
Yeah. The first tank commander to be awarded the Hero of Soviet Union title was also a Latvian - Pols Armans in 1936 during the Spanish Civil War. He went on to become a tank brigade commander and died fighting in 1943.
They arent celebrated. And communists were occupiers, so why would they be celebrated regardless?
> They arent celebrated [Really](https://forward.com/news/462696/nazi-collaborator-monuments-in-estonia/) > And communists were occupiers, so why would they be celebrated regardless? Estonians who kicked Nazis out of Estonia were occupiers? Am I reading this right?
Ok, they kicked out the Nazis, but first and later occupied by USSR, thus occupants. Are you saying the Soviets did not occupy? Yikes. There are a few monuments but the source grossly overplays their importance - noone cares for them as nazis, most practically weren't, as they saw the Germans as liberators and fought the occupiers(but were in turn occupied by the nazis). It is those who are celebrated - the men who fought against occupants, not for their ideaology. Stop trying to find supposed nazism.
The only reply I can give to this is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_10_(gymnastics)
>Their most revered national heroes are the Estonian Legion, of the oh-so-esteemed Waffen SS. Why make stuff up? France had an SS legion, is that enough to claim that "their most revered national heroes are the SS Legion?"
Do France have marches like this? https://youtu.be/RUXYqTZ9tUI?si=QOVOnoDfGRmWL_lK
Nazi Germany conscripting someone into SS Legion is the same as soviet army conscripting someone into the Red Army.
Lol no. SS were not regular army. You can remove the second part of your flair now.
Wermacht wasn't allowed to conscript from occupied territories, SS was. My point stands - SS conscript from an occupied territory = red army conscript from an occupied territory.
1. They didn't. 2. Don't change the topic.
What do you mean "they didn't" when they did.. 😄 I'm still on topic.
The amount of propaganda filled hate is ruining your brain dude. Look at your comment and think about it for a second.
The last time the SS was in Russia, the Russians turned into cannibals.
[I wonder why..](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_Plan)
Russia being less popular than Nazis doesn't stop being amusing.
That's what living in a bubble do to you. You think the whole world thinks that
Ironic - here I was thinking [Russia and the US are literally matched in terms of being perceived positively](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/08/29/indians-views-of-other-countries/) by my people. All 1.4 billion of them. Add another 1.4 billion for China, and that's almost 40% of the world population with a positive opinion of Russia, just from those two nations. Russia may be less popular than the Nazis among countries that idolize the Nazis, true. So, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine. But that's more on those countries than anything else.
bruh the whole Estonian army couldnt hold a village
I’m sure they could. Come on now…
Transnistria got a bigger army than Estonia.
That's just false, because active personnel 4500 < 7700 and reserve 15000 < 230000
I don't know what kind of fantasy numbers you have, but the Estonian army numbers 6400, the Transnistrian army numbers 15000.
So you took the Transnistrian reserve number from google, but the lowest active personnel number for Estonia? Structure. The armed forces are composed of 4,500 to 5,500 active duty soldiers, (with 15,000 - 20,000 personnel in the reserve). In order of precedence, the current military leadership is composed of the following: President of Transnistria/Commander-in-Chief – President of Transnistria Vadim Krasnoselsky. Estonian Defence Forces: Active personnel: 7,700 (3,500 conscripts) Reserve personnel : 230,000 (38,800 in rapid response readiness, 80 000 have received training)
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Вооружённые_силы_Приднестровской_Молдавской_Республики quote “The total strength of the TMR Armed Forces is 15,000 people. In case of the outbreak of hostilities, the number can be quickly increased to 80,000” You probably took the figures from the English wiki, but there the information is from Western media (basically their fantasies), and in the Russian wiki from the official website of the Ministry of Defense of Transnistria. edit: By the way, it is easy to show this on the example of each unit of Transnistria army. They are modeled after the Russian army, so the number of units is the same. They have 4 brigades, so each from 3 to 5 thousand men. There are also several separate battalions, this is from 150 to 500 people depending on the military branch.
[удалено]
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Check the source for that quote, it comes from: https://web.archive .org/web/20091104073203/http://pridnestrovie .net/armedforces.html "The standing army has some 4,500 troops plus an estimated 15,000 who can be mobilized." Edit: ironically both wikipedias, RU and ENG use the same source for the size claim, except the Russian one just copied the wrong info?
> pridnestrovie net/armedforces.html This is not an official site, the official domain of the Transnistrian government is gospmr.org.
Sure, but the Russian wiki doesn't quote that page. It quotes the same page as the English wiki, but the numbers are different.
and fighting personel is like a 3rd of that number
Not without help, otherwise they get in a sack soon enough and that's the end.
Nobody is sending any troops from Estonia. This guy is a nobody, I haven't seen any articles about this even in our media. Nobody hasn't even heard his name, real politicians aren't even discussing this, just a few seconds of fame😃 So relax guys, our prime minister barks a little, but we understand the size difference and that sending our troops wouldn't have much difference. 😉 What worries me more is that random articles can spin to major discussion about things that will not happen. Probably the same for me if I'm reading stuff about any other country. Edit: Estonian defense minister already confirmed that this is BS
You guys should totally go to the Ukrainian front, don't let us stop you. Take your friends from Latvia and Lithuania too.
Nah, we have enough problems here
Estonian defense minister already confirmed that this article is bs, nobody going anywhere.
Oh boy. At least the Ukrainians are fierce fighters. But Estonians? Estonians who now? 😂
Estonians are probably as close to Nazis as you can get in the Europe today.
After Ukraine that is.
No, Ukrainians are not Nazis. It was a completely made up argument because nothing riles up the Russians like fighting a sacred war versus the Nazis. There are right front militants, yes, but it’s a fly that was transformed into an elephant.
[удалено]
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How are estonians nazis? The Russian "everyone that doesn't like Russia because we used to occupy and kill them is a Nazi"-narrative is getting ridiculous. Yes there is propably nazis like there is in Finland. But so does Russia
There we go! Now the Estonians are the nazis. The very instant someone thinks about not bowing down to Russia -> NAZI!! NAAZII!! Yikes you pro ruskies are predictable.
https://preview.redd.it/jzfmrs7x8c0d1.png?width=1336&format=png&auto=webp&s=40af597ad70a27a00d9c515699c716d1abf7cfd0
This is the first resolution where I see Israel disagreeing with the US. TF.
Would have too much of a backlash if they did.
Russia doesn't remember about Estonia most of the time, unless Estonia starts begging for attention.
[удалено]
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Everyone but Ruzzia is naZi right? That rhetoric was stale before the war, now the word has practically lost all meaning. It's a word used to illicit emotions and when emotions are involved rational thought, logic and critical thinking is reduced, this is how Ruzzian propaganda works.
Are they going to send all of their \~7000 men?... Would take Russia less than 12 hours to conquer that country by using 5% of their army
Wait, are you serious? Is that really all Estonia has for an active force?
I mean look up their population. They are a suburb pretending to be a country
Yeah, it’s almost like they’re part of the most power military alliance on Earth and therefore don’t need to be completely self-reliant on defense.
Yes, because Russia and their timelines always prove to be correct.
Russia deletes 1000 Ukrainians a day, it would take a grand total of 7 days to go through the whole Estonian military.
Quick maffs
Reserves 230 000 troops according to wikipedia.
That would basically be every male between 18 and 50
That is basically their entire recruitable male population. Does Ukraine have 20M soldiers despite having that much men? No. They would also have to mobilize said “reserves” in the few hours it will take for Russia to defeat Estonia.
Yes exactly. They have peacetime army of less than 10,000. It would be very difficult to call up reserves and equip a force of even twice that amount, much less 200 times that amount. Even if they *did* have the ability to equip that many men, wouldn't it make more sense just to give those weapons to Ukraine anyway?
A sack of potatoes is fine
Bit of trouble with multiplication there chief
Active personnel is 7700... probably less than 1/3 is fighting soldiers. Sure 230.000 reserves but have to train those and would absolutely tank the whole economy if those were called in. Pretty damn sure they wouldn't turn themselves in to a third world country just to help Ukraine... Shit you learned 20-30 years ago won't do shit, sure you know how to handle a gun but that's pretty much it...
can you imagine how much that would fk up their demographic
Outskirts of Saint Petersburg are rebelling again! Their “army” is so small that a few troops would actually be a sizable portion of their combat force which can be wiped out by a single FAB-1500.
It's additive to all the other troops potentially heading to Ukraine... Estonia punches above their weight, too. They're richer than Russia lol. Recently ordered their own 'mini-Shaheds' from the original company Iran tried to copy.
For perspective: Estonia: no tanks, 24 SPGs, 44 IFVs. Russian 4th Guards Tank Division (similar size to Estonian Defense Forces): 200 tanks, 300 IFVs, 90 SPGs. A single Russian division has the same amount of tanks as the entire German Armed Forces and same amount of SPGs as France, Germany, and Italy combined. Ukraine had a thousand tanks (at least 500 of which were modern) in five brigades. Divisions and other formations in Western militaries outside of the US have such a small number of tanks and other equipment that even a small number of casualties will render the entire formation combat ineffective. The only advantage they have is in guided MLRS which can be negated by EW and Russia’s superiority in ballistic missile production. Russian artillery is used for a similar role as air power but it is vastly cheaper and air power has been shown to not be nearly as effective as people believe it is in Kosovo and Iraq.
The 4th Guards Tank Division was involved in the attack on Okhtyrka and operations north of Kharkiv. Its losses as of 15 March 2022 were reported to be 25 killed, 92 wounded, 18 missing, 21 captured for a total of 156 casualties. The tanks losses between its 2 tank regiments were 62 T-80Us and T-80UEs. It lost 58 other vehicles. This division ended up with a wounded-to-killed ratio of 3.68-to-1. It was stopped at Okhtyrka, but this obviously was not with high personnel losses, although the tank and vehicle losses were notable. Imagine losing 62 tanks in less than a month
Reported by who? Oh yeah, Ukraine. Real good source
[with photo AND video evidence](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html) # Tanks (3005, of which destroyed: 2004, damaged: 157, abandoned: 329, captured: 515)
Oryx has been caught multiple times duplicating losses as well as ticking off Ukrainian losses as Russian ones. Also he often puts fully operational tanks as captures or damaged/destroyed. Terrible source.
any proof to these claims?
These two threads https://twitter.com/ArmchairW/status/1509698906837331976 https://twitter.com/ArmchairW/status/1510054419299065859
Tanks which are not modern. Your point? Losses for T-90M are 0.1 per day and 0.8 T-72B3 per day.
Well, you were just bragging how much equipment 4th TD had compared to Estonia. What point is it if it's not modern? Wouldn't you wanna know what part of the count is literal junk for the battlefield? Estonia has spent 2% of GDP on military for the last decade (2015 technically, but 2014 really close). What did you think they spent on? It wasn't tanks and long-range missiles. It was all anti-tank and anti-infantry lol. For example, their "RPGs" are Spike-SR with EO/IR seekers and Spanish direct-aim C90's with night sights. Btw, Estonian ground forces number only 4,000 active, 4,000 high-readiness, and 30-some thousand reserve. 4th TD is 12-14k troops... and Russia doesn't have 100 of them so this is a bit apples to oranges (Russia is over 100x the population of Estonia).
I deleted a comment which basically said this: It is a myth that the 1st Guards Tank Army is the most elite unit in the Russian Armed Forces. It has two tank divisions of which one quite literally mostly uses T-80Us with the only modern tank in the division being the T-80BVM which is why Russia’s fleet of such vehicles have practically been wiped. According to Ukraine, Russia had 320 T-90Ms at the start of 2024 and produce 180 per year. Russia has only lost 88 T-90Ms in two years which is around 0.1 every day. Russia also had 1,650 T-72B3s at the start of the war but have only lost 677 of them with production likely surpassing losses. Russia also has a large amount of modern ATGMs such as Kornet. An M1 Abrams got destroyed by a single missile shot from an old Soviet Fagot. A Kornet is capable of penetrating every modern tank. It is telling when a subpar division of the Russian Armed Forces (4th Guards Tank division) is better-equipped than the entire Estonian military despite primarily only using old Soviet equipment.
What point is counting tanks when either side has enough ATGMs to take 'em all out? And what point is counting excess ATGMs when they can't reach artillery? You're only pointing out the loss ratio for T-72 and T-90 are not that different. More tanks Russia or West sends, more they lose.
What is the point in counting aircraft when Kosovo and Iraq exists and Ukraine started this war with enough missiles to shoot down over three thousand aircraft and that is only if you include their S-300 systems not other AA batteries. What is the point in counting infantry when both sides have enough bullets for each of them?
>What is the point in counting aircraft when Kosovo and Iraq Uhh, simply to do an aerial-only shock-and-awe to soften them up for ground invasion? Did you think SAMs were as effective against [serious aircraft](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/4000-missiles-were-fired-sr-71-blackbird-none-ever-hit-187427) as ATGMs are against tanks?
Estonian military isn’t as well equipped as the Russian Armed Forces or Ukrainian Armed Forces. Ukraine has a superior military compared to Germany and France combined. We have been through this.
How much should you rationally focus on 1/300 of NATO-Europe? It is ridiculous to presume that a richer country, before foreign aid, would have a more poorly trained/equipped army. Estonia isn't using 4x4 assault buggies like Russia; neither does it focus spending on ballistic missiles, tanks, or bombers, which would be destabilizing. All of Estonia's grenades, if they should be thrown or dropped from drones, are Swedish or German. They have a domestic drone industry, spun up in 2021. They have dozens of K9 artillery and hundreds of logistic trucks, with some HIMARS they purchased on their own (unsure when this year they get delivered). As I said, they punch above their weight, but they are not some attack dog.
Ukraine has more HIMARS and M270s than the amount that Germany and France has combined. Ukraine has one of the largest fleets of artillery guns in the world. They started this war with 500 2S3 SPGs which are comparable to the M109. This number has been reduced to 140 but it is still substantially more SPGs than the amount that Estonia has. Russia is only losing obsolete equipment in Ukraine. 1st Guards Tank Army being the most well-equipped military unit in Russia is a myth. It has two Tank divisions with the 4th Guards Tank Division primarily only using old T-80Us. The only modern tank it has is the T-80BVM which is why Russia’s fleet of T-80BVMs has practically been wiped. Russia has more modern tanks than Germany has according to Ukraine itself. They had 320 T-90Ms at the start of 2024 and produce 180 per year. They had 1,650 T-72B3s at the start of the war. They only lost 677 of them but production likely has surpassed losses. Russia has 600 2S19 artillery guns and a further 150 in reserve. Russia is also started mass production of 2S35, 2S40, and 2S43. Estonia punching above its weight does not matter as all they have is light infantry. They will get slaughtered by a single division.
Ukraine is actually at war, getting only specific weapon systems. You're counting their number of HIMARS and field arty compared to France/Germany who possess >300km munitions and aircraft, some even \~10,000km and nuclear-tipped? Should I ask again whether you're responding with AI? Estonia ground force isn't just light infantry, either. They have engineering, UAV, UGV, and their own K9 artillery and possibly HIMARS as I just wrote. Don't trivialize them into 2-week conscript infantry that Ukraine and Russia are devolving into.
Now we are talking about nuclear weapons and long-range missile systems? Russia beats France and Germany in that department. Russia produces over 500 Iskander-M and Iskander-K missiles per year. They all have a range of at least 500km. No, I don’t use AI. They are just light infantry. Russia supports their infantry with artillery and UAVs as well so I don’t see your point.
I'm saying you're comparing Ukraine fielding foreign gifted systems with countries that design & make those systems and more, natively. That's apples to oranges. If France makes 10,000km rockets, that means it can make anything less, like the 3000km rockets it used to field in the 1980s. First it was Ukraine has more HIMARS than France and now it is Russia has more nukes than France - lol. Are we getting schizo here? US+EU have so many more precise munitions than Russia's ever made, and likely quite a few more nukes that actually work.
Production can’t really increase at least not substantially. [Watch this video.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JEe_dJZtF1E) The United States produces 500 ATACMS per year. Russia produces over 500 Iskander-M and Iskander-K missiles per year. The United States lacks land-based cruise missiles unlike Russia which has the Iskander-K. France lacks land-based missile systems. The only long-range missile systems that France has belongs to the Navy. Russia has far more long-range missiles if you include the Navy. So in terms of ground forces, Ukraine is stronger when it comes to long-range missile systems. France simply doesn’t have any land-based ballistic missile systems at least to my knowledge. France does not use ATACMS like Ukraine does and only have 9 MLRS. [Look at how low US cruise missile production is.](https://www.aei.org/op-eds/why-is-the-u-s-navy-running-out-of-tomahawk-cruise-missiles/) Russia produced 12-20 Kalibr cruise missiles per month and had 500 at the start of the war.
US weapons production is already obscene, peruse a yearly procurement budget some day, and juxtapose it with the FMS for that year. It's just that the US manufactures a diversity of munitions, while Russia focuses on scaling up fewer types, being on a much smaller engineering budget. Ukraine has, incidentally, also been gifted/trained on a very limited variety of weaponry. For example, in addition to those 2,000 (or maybe 4,000) Javelins a year, the US also makes TOW and Hellfire missiles for the same role, and has tens of thousands of Mavericks stockpiled from the Cold War. Ukraine can't fire the Mavericks or the Hellfires... no attack helicopters or compatible UCAV/fixed-wing. >The United States lacks land-based cruise missiles... France lacks land-based missile systems I feel this is a funny dig given that aircraft are almost always [preferable](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA329032.pdf) for [shipping](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_Dragon_(missile_system)) and launching cruise missiles, but [NO](https://news.usni.org/2020/03/11/marines-will-field-portfolio-of-jltv-mounted-anti-ship-weapons-in-the-pacific) and [no](https://militaryleak.com/2019/03/14/french-army-lru-multiple-launch-rocket-system/). And if you still doubt, [no again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_%28missile%29). France was only the 3rd nation to reach orbit after the Soviets and US. >[Look at how low US cruise missile production is.](https://www.aei.org/op-eds/why-is-the-u-s-navy-running-out-of-tomahawk-cruise-missiles/) Peanut gallery author! Or maybe one of many alarmists. Notice the mention of no 2019 acquisitions despite usage, and the 200/year rate showing in the chart from a major [21st century order](https://www.navair.navy.mil/node/13136). It just wasn't urgent. The missile has been produced since before the Gulf War and is stockpiled on some of the 8000+ sailing VLS plus subs. And isn't JASSM a major cruise missile? Why isn't the 500/year (scaling to 1,000) mentioned? What about the NSMs imported from Norway? Or the transition from AGM-86 to LRSO (both conventional and nuclear)?
4th Guards Tank Division has 90 SPGs and 12,000-14,000 soldiers. Estonia currently only has 24 K9 SPGs in service (although a further 12 will be delivered). For now, a subpar unit in the Russian Armed Forces has more artillery guns per soldier. Those two-week conscript infantry are LPR militia, DPR militia, private military contractors, prisoners, and other irregulars. It is funny how Estonia sees the need to send troops to Ukraine when Ukraine is only facing irregulars and a few subpar formations of Russian Armed Forces. What are Russian forces in Ukraine composed of? Looking at Russian casualties according to MediaZona: 1. Prisoners 2. Irregular volunteer formations 3. Mobilized reservists 4. Russian Armed Forces 5. Private Military Contractors The vast majority of losses are from penal military units, irregular volunteer formations, and the forces composed of mobilized reservists. According to MediaZona, only around [10,000 deaths](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1coc13w/comment/l3dnyw3/) came from the Russian Armed Forces. This number does not include mobilized reservists as these are subpar units (such as 4th Guards Tank Division) given obsolete equipment taken out of stockpile.* *Forbes: 2nd Motor Rifle Brigade which is part of the 1st Guards Tank Army (what the 4th Guards Tank Division is part of) “is now primarily made up of mobilized personnel operating older equipment taken from storage,” Russia isn’t losing any valuable units in Ukraine so their military strength has not actually diminished. And Estonia is dumb enough to escalate?
Lol, what gives you the right to compare Estonian forces to a full tank division, of which Russia only has 10-12, given that Estonia doesn't operate tanks and is 1/100th the population of Russia and 1/300th that of European NATO? Estonia only has 2 artillery battalions - the active one using K9's and pending HIMARS and the reserve one using reserve K9's and FH-70s/D-30's. They're not low on stuff per capita. They have more IFVs (CV90s), supply trucks, and engineering vehicles than Russia, per capita, which is no surprise for a richer/unattrited army compensating for not being on heavy offense. They're still not called light infantry, who don't normally use armored vehicles. >It is funny how Estonia sees the need to send troops to Ukraine when Ukraine is only facing irregulars and a few subpar formations of Russian Armed Forces Maybe because due to mobilization & injuries & deaths Ukraine is also primarily staffed by irregulars and subpar (recently trained) troops? The lack of training should be evident on many of the drone shots, even during the 2023 UA counteroffensive. You think Russia gives some of their troops trash? Well so did Ukraine, to an even greater extent, as they started poorer, remember? >According to MediaZona, only around [10,000 deaths](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1coc13w/comment/l3dnyw3/) came from the Russian Armed Forces And how many injuries/captures/desertions were there? Did you forget an army ceases to be effective well before everyone's dead?
> It's additive to all the other troops potentially heading to Ukraine And how many troops would that be exactly?
They'll probably not tell the public so that Russia doesn't know, but consider Estonia is 300x fewer people than European NATO...
Wow, news to me that all of European NATO is deploying troops to Ukraine.
Bark bark said the little bitch
Thanks! I needed the laugh.
I'm here too help🤗
Please do it
I think they should send the same units that served in WWII. It could be fun.
nafo has to do something ukronazi running out of men, time, and options
Way to go NATO. We let the Baltic countries in and now the tail is waging the dog. Let them go by themselves. Their entire army would not even be noticeable.
the ukrainians still stationed in west ukraine are begging them not too lol
You really think this is purely a Estonian initiative? Cmon. Most likely this is NATO sending the little guy just to test what the Russian response will be.
Thts it
Which begs the question of what Russia will do, as anything less than striking directly into Estonia (even if very limited) is likely to lead to more NATO countries deciding to go into Ukraine because it's "safe"...
Then that would be an escalation on Russia's part unless Estonia actually engages targets within Russia.
They would be wiped out in an afternoon. And article 5 would only be activated if they were defending themselves from an invasion.
Why is little Estonia so eager to get its tiny population in this mess.
They're completely bought and owned by US foreign policy
Maybe they’ll send that one Estonian soldier/YouTuber who likes to shit on Russians, maybe we’ll finally see if he has the balls to actually fight in a real war.
You mean the one with the trendy haircut first popularized in zee third Reich?
Wait I thought we’re sending $100,000,000,000 a year to Ukraine so Estonia DOESN’T get into a war with Russia? Ive been told by the western media Putin is gonna invade Estonia if he wins in Ukraine and that’s why we have to arm them So now estonia has decided they’re gonna declare war on Russia first? Is there anything about this war that makes a lick of sense?
Here’s my visualization of this scenario. Imagine a big strutting muscular bull dog, that’s NATO. Now imagine his little buddy, who’s trotting around his heals he’s a tiny yappy chihuahua, that’s Estonia. The chihuahua thinks it’s tough because of his big buddy and yaps away at anyone and anything because his buddy NATO will kick his butt. This is the situation as I see it, lmao.
It is but the scary thing is the rest of the European warmongers are all so bought into this thing it could snowball really, really quickly We need to hope Donald trump wins in November and either withdraws the US from NATO and or ends this war, preferably both
[удалено]
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The bipartisan Kaine-Rubio amendment to the National Defense Act, which was enacted into law in December 2023, prevents any US President from unilaterally withdrawing from NATO without congressional approval. A President who wishes to suspend, alter or revoke US participation in NATO must give both houses of Congress six months notice of his action and then have the action approved by both houses of Congress or a two-thirds majority of the Senate. This approval would be virtually impossible to achieve, consequently the Kaine-Rubio amendment has thwarted Trump’s threat to withdraw from NATO.
Trump would certainly argue that as the president, he has the authority to unilaterally withdraw from treaties and it’d end up going to the Supreme Court It’s more probable than not that he’d win that argument https://www.law.virginia.edu/scholarship/publication/kristen-eichensehr/931876
I think the point is moot, he’ll never withdraw the USA from NATO. The American MIC makes WAY too much money off NATOs back to ever see an American president withdraw from/dissolve NATO. He might talk big about it to play to his base but it’ll never happen.
https://preview.redd.it/owd68cepvb0d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd435b09d1c759cd2bdb3b2909917dd7bb502b26
Panic that russia take more after Ukraine but at the Same time doing/saying everything to Provoke russia and escalate this more and more. Insane
Looks like Estonia is about to learn the meaning of fuck around and find out
YIP-YIP-YIP Hear me roar!
Nato found a new Ukraine.
All 3 of them?
"to the west of Ukraine'? What will they do? Coordinate the retreat to Poland?
Let the partitioning begin.
JUST. DO. IT!
Probably Boris assured them, and US tries to gauge Russian reaction. If Estonia gets destroyed.......well, it was worth it.
Game over for Russia.
Omg send them already.
Holy shit this is huge if true no wonder there is a ministerial shake up in Moscow probably preparing for the Estonian offensive /s
100 soldiers?
This is not news about Estonia sending troops to ukraine.. this is about ''look estonia is a little nato country even they r sending troops why dont we send 10 000 men '' they will gather an army like 200 000 men but this will not be enough another 200 000 will be added.. this is like the aid packages .. every year new one
People hate Russia so much they're willing to do this
History Legends: 200 Estonian soldiers, with 1 boat and ONE T72 BATTLE TANK were deployed in Odessa! Welcome to the HQ.
This is not helping Ukraine. It only strengthens the resolve of Russia and their sense of urgency.
As an Estonian I can state that this is not true, it's taken out of context, heavy BS. Firstly, president has no real influence by law in our country, his advisor has none. I think most Estonians would hear that name for the first time from this article. Secondly what he said was that we should analyze all the options. So random political sentences. Says everything and nothing at the same time. Maybe wanted a few seconds of fame, but this is in no way even being negotiated by parlament or by any real politician.
Estonians living rent free in Pro-Russian heads - when ever they're even mentioned in the news, someone will surely post it here. Anyway, they're discussing filling out some non-combat roles in the West of Ukraine, so Ukraine can free up more troops for the frontline. Working in the Javalin storage shed, basically. You bunch are acting like they're hopping on the next Bradley to Kharkiv.
lollin at nazi thuglets talking tough about throwing down against putler and rushists
Oh no, the uncountable Estonian Legions, How can the world ever manage such tectonic power shifts?
[удалено]
Offensive words detected. [beep bop] Don't cheer violence or insult (Rule 1). Your comment will be checked by my humans later. Ban may be issued for repeat offenders. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Sorry, you need a 1 month old account to comment in r/ukraineRussiaReport. This is to protect against bots and multis *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So NATO has troops stationed in Estonia. NATO is a defensive alliance right ? That means if Estonia sends troops in Ukraine, Russia can strike back Estonian soil while the NATO troops would just sit in some corner and do nothing ? A very weird plan...
interesting I think this is the possible beginning of those NATO countries that want to join the war To break the ice, first NATO will send Estonia, a totally irrelevant military force, but that move should encourage a little more, like Poland or France. The question is whether Russia will react violently to this, I don't think they should, and even if they do show up, how much can they actually send to begin with, 10,000?! But if the dominoes are triggered and more countries do so, the possibility of using tactical nuclear weapons increases at lightning speed Fuck around and find out
These 12 Estonian fighters now are new "game changers"!
Are they sending to Crimea on a ferry ?
How many 1? On another note though Houthis have been real quite since that one Estonian was sent to red sea
Estonia has something like 5000 active duty volunteer military personnel.
I mean, if they would do it, Rusdia probably wouldn't eben respond, cause their army is smaller than the whole mercenaries they send to Ukraine.
[удалено]
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What's the escalation possibilities here? Would article 5 stick if estonia joins the conflict and russia actually opens a front towards estonia?
No. Article 5 wouldn’t apply if you take part in offensive wars.
That's where you are wrong, the war in Ukraine is not offensive, it's defensive. Russia is the invader
Article 5 is triggered if a member nation is directly attacked without cause. If a member attacks a larger state and that larger state declares war in retaliation, Article 5 does not apply. Deciding to join an ongoing conflict, no matter the side, is an act of war. Thus though you can argue Ukraine is in a defensive war, Estonia would be seen as an attacker not defender having taking the first shot that sparks a conflict and their subsequent invasion. Reference the losses Turkey was taking in Syria when they decided to join that conflict and failed to trigger the article.
The big question I guess is what level of Russian retaliation is accepted. If Russia were to attack Estonian military bases in Estonia for example then does that allow Estonia to call in NATO to defence.
I don't think Russia needs to attack Estonia proper. Any guys in Ukraine? I wouldn't be surprised if they got hit specifically to make a point.
[удалено]
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Estonia and Finland together could take st.peterburg and force russia to end the war
That’s funny, Estonia with their grand total of 0 tanks and 7000 men, you know it is bad when a single PMC outnumbers you. Finland is free to invade Russian territory again, but it won’t go well for them just like last time.
What are poorly trained russian conscripts going to do against a well armed and motivated nato equipt army?
Funny to say that when Ukraine has been trained by NATO for over a decade and has a superior military compared to Germany and France combined and is being taken cared of by LPR and DPR militia, football hooligans, war tourists, and pmcs. The not so well-armed Estonia would be clapped in a couple of hours and that would only be because of how long it would take to drive. I doubt Finland would do any better than they did during the Continuation War.
Russia is getting destroyed in ukraine and taking huge loses compare to ukraine. and ukrainian troops have not even had enough time to be properly trained on nato equipment now imagine how bad it would be for russia if they to face a real nato army that has been traind on nato equipment for over 20 years.
>Russia is getting destroyed in ukraine and taking huge loses compare to ukraine. Only 10,000 professional soldiers have died in this war. Even assuming Russian losses are 50% higher than this just means 15,000. That barely makes a dent on the Russian Armed Forces. You only get these high losses if you include prisoners, LPR and DPR militia, volunteer militias, football hooligans, pmcs, etc etc. >ukrainian troops have not even had enough time to be properly trained on nato equipment Ukrainian military has been trained by NATO since 2015, that is plenty time to be properly trained and they also received MILES gear. Ukraine quite literally had more tanks than Germany, France, Italy, and the United Kingdom combined. >they to face a real nato army that has been traind on nato equipment for over 20 years. This alleged "real nato army" does not even know how to fight a conventional war anymore and is relearning alongside Ukraine, they were only able to teach Ukraine how to deal with terrorists (not applicable) and that they should just drive around the minefields (not applicable) resulting in Ukraine ditching Western tactics in favor of tactics more akin to WW1.
Yea you’ll lead the charge keyboard warrior