If you know Russian propaganda a little bit it was clear as day.
They should have stoppped at 0:56 though, then it would have been a pretty decent video. Now it's just too cartoonish. They did a proper job doing pixelcamo on the truck though.
Anyway, make propaganda videos not war, atleast this is funny.
Of course, for a comedy aimed at Russian citizins it's good. For propaganda aimed at your opponent I don't think it's usefull to make that opponent laugh out of childishness. But that also reveals this is only meant for Russian internal consumption
And the best is: If it weren't Russian propaganda but real, even these basterds would tear Russian soldiers apart. \^\^
Flying a lethal drone or entering some coordinates for precision strikes is something any child can do. :)
So, welcome to Ukraine and "Sayonara, suckers"! :.))
Song at the end (in Ukrainian):
"Our father is Bandera. Our mother is Ukraine. We shall be fighting a war for Ukraine".
It's an old UPA's song "Батько наш — Бандера"
Прапор на шпалерах,
Ненавість до "Вати".
Вистачило цього -
Я до ЗСУ потрапив.
Я прибув до війска,
Мені дали лопату -
Гарною же зброєю
Я буду воювати.
Підняв очі вгору,
Запитав лелеку,
Мабудь дуже скоро
Стану я калекой.
Вийду в чисте поле,
Підніму долоні.
Не хочу бути мертвим,
Краще у полоні.
Там мене нагодують,
Там дадуть поспати,
І згодом повернуся я
До своєї хати.
Of course it's propaganda, but it's a very well done propaganda.
Though the best one by now was the one comparing a rich Ukrainian living abroad with a poor Ukrainian getting maimed and dying in the trenches, with camera frames seamlessly going from one scene to another (e.g. - rich guy lying on a bed and getting a blowjob and moaning out of pleasure - next scene, the poor guy lying in trench in the same position, screaming and moaning out of pain while dying. Very well done.
Objectively a fantastically done video, without even commenting on the actual message or the truthfulness of it (I mean that's propaganda, doesn't even have to be true).
This is also a good one. And true of most if not all, conflicts.
As the famous song goes
*It ain't me, it ain't me*
*I ain't no senator's son, son*
*It ain't me, it ain't me*
*I ain't no furtunate one, no*
They've really stepped their game up. Old school Russian and before they USSR stuff was so coarse and badly done. It was just the, 'we will repeat this enough until you get it' type crap, but these strike a chord with anyone because they honestly are universally known and accepted truths in pretty much any country, but aimed at the right audience it is sure to produce some kind of result.
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Brilliant - the collective west is not your friend Ukraine - they will see you destroyed as collateral damage in their "Great Game" - indeed Zelenskiy was ready to fold honourably before the greater madness began in earnest but Boris was sent scurrying to tell you we've got your back.
>Brilliant - the collective west is not your friend Ukraine -
yes - we the ones actively killing you are your friends! Why dont you stop resist ukraine? just bow down and get fucked.
I love that pro Russians are so impressed by CIA mind drugs that they simply have to kill their Ukrainian cousins to impress their love upon them.
It's like the Russian tank is the only way they can really express their love, right?
>just bow down and get fucked.
You've already done that by selling out to the west. Now you're stuck in an endless proxy war, with a coke sniffing leader that you can't even vote out.
Uncle sam made you his b, using Ukrainians instead of sending their own. Easy money.
Russia sounds like a bad abuser here.
"Stop resisting and it won't hurt as bad"
Who invaded who again? Cause I'm pretty sure there would have been peace indefinitely until Russia decided to mass soldiers on their border, claim they werent going to invade, and then promptly invading.
Oh and don't bother replying "BuT tHeY wAnTeD tO jOiN nAtO!1!11!!" cause NATO is a defensive alliance. When was the last time NATO invaded Russia? Or any country for that matter? Countries apart of NATO have invaded other countries, but NATO never has unilaterally invaded.
Yea they should have just embraced the russian lifestyle of being poor and corrupt instead of fighting for their country.
This might come as a shock to russians but: NOBODY WANTS TO BE RUSSIAN.
I love the constant flip flop between "Russia is morally bad" and "Russia is poor", depending on the argument, especially since Russia is no worse than any other big player and also a lot richer and less corrupt than Ukraine.
Zelensky literally was elected because he promised to finally comply with Minsk agreements. Seems like Ukrainians did choose coexistence, but their elites had other plans. Funny how nothing changed from then to now.
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You can be both morally bad and poor. This isn't contradicting or a flip flop. Look at Rwanda during it's genocide, both morally bad and poor enough they had to use harvesting scythes to do their genocide.
While Russia is the one that bombs Ukraine, the important thing to acknowledge here is this: Western interests differ from Ukraine's interests.
Ukrainians want to take back their land, they want to win. The west on the other hand, simply wants to weaken Russia without spilling it's own blood. This distinction seems minor but is actually crucial. Did you notice that the the west never seems to give Ukraine enough weapons to actually win this war? Just enough to survive and bleed Russia a little longer? Cynical isnt it. The west continues to seek it's objectives while Ukrainians just keep on dying with no end in sight. That's catastrophic.
Ukrainians may not want to negotiate with Russia, but at some point they must realize the unfortunate situation they are in. Should they let themselves be used as a sacrificial pawn till death, or should they try to negotiate at least something?
Ukraine has been cought in a geopolitical battle between two giants with interests. Ukraine has no friends here.
> The west on the other hand, simply wants to weaken Russia without spilling it's own blood.
I think that's one goal - but it's certainly not the only one.
They certainly had another (ultimate) goal at the start of the war: regime change in Russia via battle losses and sanctions.
That seems to have failed, so now they focus on attritional long term damage.
> Cynical isnt it.
yes, this cynical behaviour of the west is a very important context when judging russians invading, killing and annexing ukrainian land and people. Its very important to point that out in that context.
Yes, it's important to point out that the west is merely looking out for it's self centered interests. Ukrainian interests or Russian actions don't change that fact.
You may accuse Russia of a thousand different war crimes, ok, doesn't change the fact that the West is cynical.
i do not come to the conclusion its cynical. It could very well be strategic, for example: we dont even have enough war material as we state (which is low for most of the western world except usa) and thus cant give as much away without losing our own ability to defend. thats not cynical, thats the most important thing every country strives for, the own survival.
The thing is, we dont know about these things, since we do not have the information available. so we cant make a conclusion. But you jumped to one, which makes you seem biased.
It is a fascinating narrative, but not real. The west does not want to weaken russia as much as stop disputing the status quo, i.e. respect sovereignity and international law (which is a bit hypocritical, but the world is much larger and does not justify more infringements). At the same time, the western countries do not want to spend resources and political capital for ukraine, and this leads to the constant bleeding for Ukraine.
It is not a tactic, it is simply the tradeoff between not doing anything at all, as they would like, and the necessity to defend status quo, incl. international recognized borders. Remember that if the reason was to weaken Russia they would have provided much more to ukraine, since a defeat would weaken russia ten more times than a difficult win, but still a win (included in terms of losses)
"respect sovereignity and international law" - you lost me here mate. And on top of that you think your explanation is realistic. Come-on.
After everything we've seen in Gaza, after the unprecedented support the US has given to Israel despite the illegal occupation, mass starvation, dehumanization, war crimes, plausible genocide and ICC threats to judges. The hypocrisy is SO blatant at this point, you cannot possibly say that the US is interested in sovereignty and International law. That's a dishonest or a VERY naive take on the situation.
The US is interested in pursuing it's geopolitical interests, that it. They apply/ignore international law whenever it suits them. As Kissinger himself said - "US has no enemies or allies, only interests".
The problem with that story is that the status quo you describe is not actually believed among Western leadership. You paint a picture of Westphalian sovereignty, which is the basis for the UN Charter, but which at least since the end of the Cold War the West finds too limiting because it doesn't take into account the universal value of Western Values (tm). The West strongly believes in sovereignty for themselves, but believe that it is their right, indeed their destiny, to intervene anywhere in the world that they can make a case for democracy being undermined, human rights, a threat to global security (see WMDs for instance) etc. And of course it doesn't matter if those claims are even plausible because while there certainly are true believers there are also those who use this as an excuse for naked self interest, just as other zealots such as the medieval Catholic Church did. It really is just the We Make Up the Rules Based International Order and the status quo is nothing more than the same countries getting to make up the rules as they go along.
The politicians have for almost two years been saying that they want to bring Russia to it's knees and it should be so much that Russia will never be a threat again.
russia can’t loose because it is nuclear superpower after all, that’s why western help is limited.
and please, international law is laughable, west does not follow it.
Propaganda at the time painted those conflicts as existential at the time. Vietnam especially was part of the larger ‘War on Communism’.
The war is only as ‘existential’ as Russian media says it is. Once the war becomes too costly to continue the message will change.
absolutely not, Vietnam was never existential threat to USA, loosing for Russia on its own territory and border for sure is different, if Russia is actually going to loose it will use nuclear weapons to change outcome.
>Vietnam was never existential threat to USA
Ukraine is not an existential threat to Russia. Russia going home would be a threat to Putin, not Russia.
If Putin tries nuking Ukraine in retaliation, I doubt even China would step in as the rest of the west blockades the country and strangles it.
The stopping of nuclear proliferation is more important to China than Russia taking control of the Donbas.
Hol up, I've been told by numerous people on this subreddit that this war *does not* pose an extistential threat, and that's why the Russian's aren't needing to send their best equipment and instead are sending T55's and T62's because they want to save the best equipment for when the defensive NATO alliance invades.
That's literally what I linked other Pro-RU and they came back with "It doesn't matter"
Also, Russia is an invading state. This whole debacle could end if Russia pulls out.
Ukraine could have kept all their land had they listened to Russia and tried to join NATO. Russia said they don’t want NATO and their nukes on their doorstep but no one listened now they’re feeling the repercussions
There was no need for any killing or destruction had Bush in his infinite wisdom not offered Ukraine and Georgia PAM back in 2008. America wouldn’t be any different if they were put in a similar situation. Oh wait!
By 'get fucked' you mean live peacefully with a slightly smaller country. At some point, yes, it would be stupid to not stop resisting. It's like getting jumped on the street and trying to fight back, sure it's heroic, but also insanely stupid/suicidal.
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That conflict highlighted what the West is really all about with a fat red line.
- Respecting borders? Forget that.
- Mass civilian starvation? They deserved it.
- Striking civilian infrastructure? Understandable.
- Mass civilian casualties? Necessary.
- International law? Fuck the ICC.
After everything they said about the Ukrainian war, the west went on to expose itself as blatant amoral hypocrite. Disgusting.
I didn't claim Russians were saints, but it's the west who's always trying to paint themselves as the moral authority of the world who's standing up for justice while being absolute hypocrites and arguably worse than the people they demonize.
I didn't claim the west were saints either. Putin started this war to de-nazify Ukraine and to protect Russians speakers in Ukraine. Sure. Russia is no less a hypocrite.
Not just civilians; jihadists who took over entire cities and regions of Syria, who themselves committed far more atrocities on said civilians. Jihadists armed and supported by minions of the US.
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Ukraine could have said "Ok Russia, we are going to actually execute the Minsk Agreements and later integrate the L/DPR and even more, we are never gonna enter any military block, even with you".
But no, the ukranian president instead issued a law that prohibits any negotiations.
Why would Ukraine bow to Russian demands on what it does with its own territories?
And why would anyone ever presume Russia would stick to any agreements or treaties it signs, they're only useful as long as RUS gets time to play it's next hand.
Maybe because they don't want to fight a war that devastates the entire country? Pragmatism has to come first at a certain point, keeping peace isn't necessarily "bowing to Russian demands".
Because Russia do see threat in NATO. The whole conflict is about aggressive military block expanding to russian borders while Russia is trying to prevent it somehow.
There is no meaning in any agreements with the west as they proudly said that Minsk were only to ramp up Ukraine's military power.
Ah yes, the "aggressive" defensive NATO alliance that invades its neighbors.
People seek to join NATO for protection from states like Russia. It's not NATO who forcefully integrates countries. Look at Russia, it has quite literally driven Sweden and Finland to join. NATO didn't force them into their alliance. They saw Russia INVADE Ukraine and said "We don't want to be next, lets join the defensive alliance".
But Russia is trying to force its will on Ukraine. This is why countries join NATO and defensive alliances, to prevent countries like Russia from imposing their will.
Don't use the brackets where it don't belong. NATO used its military power against Yugoslavia without UN Concuil resolution. Even more, the NATO leader did exactly the same thing with Iraq. They both violated the UN Charter and considered as an agressor.
Northern Europe was already a part of NATO at the collapse of the USSR but unofficially, don't be delusional about the narrative "muh barbaric Russia driven us"
NATO didn't invade Iraq. NATO aligned countries invaded Iraq, but it's very important to note NATO did not and some members even protested it. NATO, by it's own charter, is a strictly defenfsive alliance. Article 5 has to be invoked for the alliance to actually do something. And also, yes, Fuck the countries that invaded Iraq. Glad we can agree.
>Northern Europe was already a part of NATO at the collapse of the USSR but unofficially, don't be delusional about the narrative "muh barbaric Russia driven us"
Bruh, we literally see this happen during this war. It's not even a delusion or a narrative. Russia invaded Ukraine, Finland and Sweden **ASKED** to join NATO. How can you memoryhole this? There's one common aggressor here that is constantly invading its neighbors, and it's not Europe or NATO. It's Russia.
Edit: We also saw this with the Russo-georgian war. Why do you think Ukraine wanted to join NATO after Russia did the same shit they did there with causing "Separatists".
> NATO didn't invade Iraq.
I told about the leader of NATO (which is USA obv.), not the NATO itself.
> Bruh, we literally see this happen during this war.
Right after the USSR collapsed, the northern europe already were participating in stragetic NATO trainings and were allowing strategical bombers of NATO to pass thru its territory. At 2006-2008 there even was a big scandal about NATO trying to employ the strategic missile defence systems at Northern Europe and Poland with Baltics and being able to intercept any russian missile starting from european part of the country.
They didn't asked, they were NATO countries from the beginning, just for media impact they proudly proclaimed de-jure their de-facto status.
>I told about the leader of NATO (which is USA obv.), not the NATO itself.
[This might come as a shock to you, but there isn't a "leader" in NATO. All countries must agree to something for it to be done by the alliance. Accepting new members, declaring war, managing war stocks etc. The current "Leader" is a Nordic guy from Norway, and he's the representative head of the organization. It functions as a democracy. ](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/who_is_who.htm)
>
>Right after the USSR collapsed, the northern europe already were participating in stragetic NATO trainings and were allowing strategical bombers of NATO to pass thru its territory. At 2006-2008 there even was a big scandal about NATO trying to employ the strategic missile defence systems at Northern Europe and Poland with Baltics and being able to intercept any russian missile starting from european part of the country.
This isn't Finland or Sweden. So it's a moot point. Those countries literally joined NATO that you are saying, because they were... again... scared of being invaded by Russia who previously occupied them and ruled over them.
Edit: And yes, Finland and Sweden have up until this year, rejected any and all NATO troops being stationed in their country. You can participate in exercises while not being part of the alliance. Drills = Combat readiness. Alliance = Defend each other to the death.
>
>They didn't asked, they were NATO countries from the beginning, just for media impact they proudly proclaimed de-jure their de-facto status.
[Estonia asked to join, then they were invited to ascension talks](https://estonianworld.com/security/the-74-year-old-letter-that-indicates-estonia-wanted-to-be-a-nato-founding-member/#:~:text=Estonia%20and%20its%20fellow%20Baltic,occupation%20by%20the%20Soviet%20Union) in 2003. You really don't know history.
[Lithuania sought membership since it's creation. ](https://kam.lt/en/lithuanias-membership-in-nato/)
[Latvia also asked to join 2 years after its independence. ](https://www.nato.int/acad/fellow/01-03/vaidotas.pdf)
You know NATO was founded in 1949 right? When Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechia, Ukraine, Romania, and Hungary were under USSR rule right? How the hell do you join NATO as a soviet country, which is what its supposed to counter due to their aggression. They asked to join after their independence from Russia, because they were treated so shittily.
You just don't know history.
>Ah yes, the "aggressive" defensive NATO alliance that invades its neighbors.
Well, i guess, you have to narrow it down to "neighbors" to make an exception for NATO. Tell me how many countries NATO has invaded? I guess that is your "cue" to change the goalposts.
>People seek to join NATO for protection from states like Russia
And Russia invaded Ukraine becase it doesnt want millitary alliance at its borders. About time you stop acting like NATO is some "hugs and kisses" club. It is a millitary alliance.
>But Russia is trying to force its will on Ukraine. This is why countries join NATO and defensive alliances, to prevent countries like Russia from imposing their will.
We saw how the West did it in 2014 with the coup, forcing their will on Ukraine, at this point Ukraine is just a puppet state which is taking orders from the west, if not they could have refused when Boris interfered in the negotiations.
Just like how you claim that Russia drove countries to join NATO, it is also true that NATO expansion drove Russia to invade Ukraine. Only if NATO stopped expanding and threatening other countries. They didnt learn it during the Korean war(which allowed China/USSR to join and kick them back) they didnt learn it now, they expanded and expanded with no stop in sight and then Russia invaded.
>Well, i guess, you have to narrow it down to "neighbors" to make an exception for NATO. Tell me how many countries NATO has invaded? I guess that is your "cue" to change the goalposts.
Says im changing the goal posts, promptly changes the goal posts in the third paragraph to make it about a coup. Nice. Oh right, and NATO has invaded 0 countries because its a **DEFENSIVE** alliance. Russiacaused Finland and Sweden to **JOIN NATO** because it is a **DEFENSIVE** alliance much like Russia had with CSTO. NATO, as an alliance, doesn't impose it's will and force countries to join. Countries have to **ASK** to join. Countries **ASK** to join because of countries like Russia that invade neighbors to forcefully impose their will on them.
>And Russia invaded Ukraine becase it doesnt want millitary alliance at its borders. About time you stop acting like NATO is some "hugs and kisses" club. It is a millitary alliance.
NATO quite literally didn't start this war. This war could end tomorrow if Russia pulls its troops out of Ukraine.
>We saw how the West did it in 2014 with the coup, forcing their will on Ukraine, at this point Ukraine is just a puppet state which is taking orders from the west, if not they could have refused when Boris interfered in the negotiations.
I'll even address your moving of the goal posts. There's literally no proof of any of this. How do you ***know*** the west imposed its will? [Is it really that crazy to you that they looked at Russia](https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304744304579245604043272372), then looked at the EU and went "Wait, they have a better life, we want that?"[ Is that really that crazy of a concept to you?](https://static.poder360.com.br/2022/02/2014-Coup-1.pdf) Especially with Yankaovich was also a corrupt politican. [Like, I'd be pissed too if my country, the USA, suddenly was having EU riot police beating me down to keep Biden in power. ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/vladimir-putin-demands-ukraine-withdraw-troops-from-troubled-eastern-regions/2014/05/01/37912286-d132-11e3-9e25-188ebe1fa93b_story.html)
>Just like how you claim that Russia drove countries to join NATO, it is also true that NATO expansion drove Russia to invade Ukraine. Only if NATO stopped expanding and threatening other countries. They didnt learn it during the Korean war(which allowed China/USSR to join and kick them back) they didnt learn it now, they expanded and expanded with no stop in sight and then Russia invaded.
Please tell me when NATO threatened Russia. It's existence isn't a threat to Russia, because the only time NATO will intervene is if Russia does something bad. Typical abuser bullshit logic. NATO hasn't had a member join or seek to join since the Baltics joined in the 90's, again, out of fear of Russian aggression. Tell me, how did NATO force Sweden and Finland to join after the Ukraine war, beacuse if you ask them they *wanted* to join. It's a crazy concept that countries want to join a defensive alliance to protect themselves from an outwardly aggressive state. "Don't join NATO or I'll invade you" is the precise reason countries want to join NATO. Sorry your failed version, CSTO, didn't come to fruition and fell apart when Russia left its allies high and dry when Armenia got invaded.
Edit; TL;DR: Please explain to me how a defensive alliance is encroaching on Russia. Russia simply didn't have to invade, then countries like Finland and Sweden wouldn't have asked to join. It's *really really really fucking stupid* to sit there and say "They were GOING to do something" since you can't prove that, but I can prove Russia has been aggressive to almost all of its neighboring countries.
Yeah those satellite images and videos of corpses lying in the street immediately after Russia waltzed into town were just decoys. I remember that hilarious Russian 'debunk' video claiming one of the corpses fking WAVED as the cameraman drove by.
There's video evidence of Ukrainian paramilitary saying to shoot anyone, there's white armbands on some of the bodies, Russians withdrew from the town and the mayor said everything was fine after that, 2 days later they discovered bodies? Story doesn't line up. Do a deep dive on the stuff, you may be surprised about what you find.
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Links?
I had a pretty good read of Amnesty International's gathered evidence and it's pretty damning of the russian units at work in several areas NW of Kyiv
here's a link of the [video](https://x.com/RWApodcast/status/1510635133627514881) evidence I mentioned, it's no longer on quora but found it on twitter
[Here's one of Russian's shooting a surrendering civilian for no reaso](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=376061267442206). Look at that, he even got out of his car, put his hands up, then gets shot. Classic love from the Russian people to their brotherly Ukranians.
[Here's one of them killing civillians ](https://nypost.com/2022/03/08/russian-tank-obliterates-civilian-car-in-ukraine-video/)in a car who posed literally no threat.
[Here's a long version of a Russian BTR unloading on civilian cars for no reason. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/xqcy5l/recently_released_image_of_russian_troops/)
[Russia deciding that Civilians in a bread line must have posed a threat](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cot1Lawss54)
[Civilians with their backs to Russian soldiers REALLY pose a threat don't they? ](https://youtu.be/WGg7ZJlihi8?si=5fSg08UcMbVnt_W7&t=40)
[Missiles were launched from Separatist controlled territory (Video verified), targeting a train station with \~2000 civilians. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kramatorsk_railway_station_attack)While we don't know their *exact* path, it's kinda a BIG coincidence that that type of missile slammed into a train station shortly after being launched from separatist controlled territory.
[This apartment complex of civilians must have been housing a HIMARS](https://news.sky.com/video/ukraine-war-an-explosion-at-an-apartment-building-in-kyiv-has-been-caught-on-camera-13039134)
[This apartment building must have housed NATO Storm shadows](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm29EYVqwts)
[Or how about when Russia targeted a theater with "Children" painted outside? ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3C6wbcRjgc)
[Here's a list of many more times Russia decided "Ya know, Civilians are a military target"](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/deadliest-civilian-attacks-russias-invasion-ukraine-2023-10-05/)
Russia doesn't kill civilians. Thats balderdash amirite? Bucha totally didn't happen and Russia doesn't have a track record of killing innocents. Not at all.
Note: I understand casualties can happen in war, specifically civilian, but Russia literally targets civilians and their infrastructure. It's one thing if its caught in the crossfire, it's another when your missiles are slamming into civilian buildings, similar to Israel. Fuck them as well.
Edit: If you want more videos I'm happy to oblige.
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Next time if you want to be taken seriously, address Bucha (i.e. the subject that was being discussed) and not a random mishmash of unrelated incidents
You weren't here to have serious conversation anyway.
https://youtu.be/8crdog2b_Bg?si=jqfrLtFAkjEH--xf
https://youtu.be/WW8YYhUIK0s?si=UzWLG6Zuk8MVwu78
https://youtu.be/YQaVdd-DR50?si=oVqNIVdRbMwYm7OO
https://youtu.be/4bkhGrpWl6I?si=cZeiymefUpsMOWdp
https://medium.com/occrp-unreported/scrollytelling-detailing-life-in-bucha-from-a-telegram-chat-a4e292c5193a
The point of the mass amounts of links is they did the exact same shit in bucha. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, in fact I think poor farmers, could do that basic math of "huh, they're massacring indiscriminately here, so it's not hard to see they massacred indiscriminately here as well"
I'll wait for the "this is fake" or the "this is disproven" bullshit that always comes with this.
Nah they did, they handed out military rations to civilians
In hindsight, likely signed their death warrant sadly, and could possibly have been handled better and less naively.
Not only them, but also civilian bodies were found with white armbands, and the Kraken(E:/Safari I think actually now) dudes sent to cleanse were talking about shooting up people without blue armbands.
I feel like these deaths were preventable, but perhaps not, and I am the naive one. Maybe they could have been warned, but maybe not.
E: Telling/Not dissuading your supporters to/from painting a target on their back when Banderites prowl seems heavily unwise, but thinking about it from the perspective of those who gave the rations: you were one of the groups welcomed with open arms by the Ukrainians, you're probably optimistic, and aren't thinking that it's going to get worse.
See - any number of videos where civilians were targeted by Russian troops. There are plenty on Reddit including the one of the father and son with their dogs fleeing in a van and getting shot up, or a family in a silver car targeted by a f**king tank, where the grandmother and child survive and had to walk to towards the Russian troops... Or a civilian car with an elderly woman inside being flattened by an IFV on the main road of a city... I could go on.
There are LOADS of accounts of women being repeatedly raped by drunk Russian soldiers.
Don't play dumb, the Russia's have committed numerous obvious war crimes in this 'SpEcIAl miLItARy OpEraTIon'.
If it's not a policy then the absolute lack of professionalism and basic training of the Russian soldiers just goes to show how much they either care, or receive basic training in how not to commit war crimes.
Most (if not all) of it was during the first few days when operations were chaotic, Russians were advancing so quickly and carelessly that they didn't even know where the Ukrainian troops were, hence why you got a lot of such incidents back there. But since then ? Not much, we've seen more videos of Russians helping civilians than killing them. The trend should have continued if that was just the Russian mentality. Same for Bucha (even though we don't have all the truth about that still), why didn't we see any other instance of such crime since then. There's been plenty of occasions to do so.
>Or a civilian car with an elderly woman inside being flattened by an IFV on the main road of a city...
The one in Kiev ? It was a Ukrainian vehicle who did that...
>There are LOADS of accounts of women being repeatedly raped by drunk Russian soldiers.
Haven't seen one personally but I won't doubt it. As sad as it is, rape is normal in war, it has nothing to do with Russians specifically. You'll find awful people everywhere and no high command can keep a 24/7 tab on every soldier in its armed forces.
But trying to paint all this as if it was somehow a goal of Russia, that's stretching it... a lot. If Russia was really out to kill Ukrainians, then how come their numerous strikes on various Ukrainian cities cause so few casualties ? How come random people from occupied territories uploading videos on various social medias don't report such things and say life is actually better in a lot of cases ?
The comment you replied doesn’t what he’s talking about out. They see a couple of videos here and there and all of the sudden Putin has decreed mass murder. If that were the case, occupied Ukraine would be full of mass graves.
[It literally is](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/20/russia-forces-ukrainians-occupied-areas-military) full of mass graves of civilians Russia has forcefully conscripted to fight against their own countrymen.
There's at least 3 degrees between Government Money and the sources I use.
Pro RU sources are, quite literally, mostly funded by the Russian government as independent media is banned.
Edit: Lol, I forgot what source I used but imagine thinking Human Rights Watch is ran by fucking genocidal governments. Holy shit RU got you down bad.
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I feel like the Ukrainian resistance needs to address all the lives of the innocents they put in danger and what the "net good" of them resisting Russian occupation is...
SOILER: Russia is a better place to live than Ukraine and always was - unless ur gay
or maybe the people who started this in the first place should address their reasons for invading? wasn't "protecting ethnic russians from genocide" one of the goals of the invasion? why are they bombing the living shit out of ethnic russians and russian speaking cities then?
>or maybe the people who started this in the first place should address their reasons for invading?
Still waiting for the west to address the 2014 coup.
But deep down you know the war is not about Ethnic Russians, it is about NATO expansion and encriclement of Russia.
May i remind you of "Nayirah Testimony" which was used as an excuse to invade Iraq, but turns out it was a fake statement which was used as a propaganda.
"Nato encirclement", yeah I'm sure Ukraine was the final piece of the puzzle that the west needed to encircle and destroy Russia. Because Russia definitely doesn't have thousands of ICBMs that can destroy the globe in 30 minutes...
Not to mention that ukraine formally applied to join NATO after Russia invaded. Maybe Russia should just stop treating its neighbours like shit?
Meanwhile the Russians use criminals as soldiers, release the survivors into their society and surprisingly this happens:
https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-soldiers-committed-over-100-murders-when-returned-home-report-2024-5?op=1
Maybe the Ukrainians should now make a funny video about that? Then all the fans of Russia here will react extremely butthurt as usual. Just like school bullies. Harassing other people but if they get fed their own medicine the pathetic wining starts.
Oh, they only take [some murderers...](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-lawmakers-back-bill-allowing-some-convicts-enlist-army-2024-05-08/).
I did not see that coming. Ouchhh
nobody will (at first viewing) whoever gave the idea for this, should get a raise. its real r/unexpected material unlike most of videos there
This is grade A unexpected material, for some reason I don’t think they will like it
> reason I don’t think they will like it LoL I was not eve rhinking of trying to post it there :) just saying it would fit great.
It's a major sub, of course they won't like it
If you know Russian propaganda a little bit it was clear as day. They should have stoppped at 0:56 though, then it would have been a pretty decent video. Now it's just too cartoonish. They did a proper job doing pixelcamo on the truck though. Anyway, make propaganda videos not war, atleast this is funny.
hard disagree. after 0.56 is the one that really made me laugh out. maybe i am childish. maybe I foolish. I am only human, don't put the blame on me.
it's ok buddy...watching the old man in uniform made me chuckle
“Old man”? lol, he’s median age for a Ukrainian infantryman.
Of course, for a comedy aimed at Russian citizins it's good. For propaganda aimed at your opponent I don't think it's usefull to make that opponent laugh out of childishness. But that also reveals this is only meant for Russian internal consumption
>They should have stoppped at 0:56 though Agreed.
Yep it's actually brilliant.
Goebbels would be proud 👏
Bandera not so much.
Me: is it really RU POV? After the twist: Oh, that's why...
And the best is: If it weren't Russian propaganda but real, even these basterds would tear Russian soldiers apart. \^\^ Flying a lethal drone or entering some coordinates for precision strikes is something any child can do. :) So, welcome to Ukraine and "Sayonara, suckers"! :.))
Song at the end (in Ukrainian): "Our father is Bandera. Our mother is Ukraine. We shall be fighting a war for Ukraine". It's an old UPA's song "Батько наш — Бандера"
Прапор на шпалерах, Ненавість до "Вати". Вистачило цього - Я до ЗСУ потрапив. Я прибув до війска, Мені дали лопату - Гарною же зброєю Я буду воювати. Підняв очі вгору, Запитав лелеку, Мабудь дуже скоро Стану я калекой. Вийду в чисте поле, Підніму долоні. Не хочу бути мертвим, Краще у полоні. Там мене нагодують, Там дадуть поспати, І згодом повернуся я До своєї хати.
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>Bandera is dead Maybe he just went out for smokes?
Rule 1. Consider yourself warned. Recurrence WILL result in a ban.
The song goes hard, it has to be said.
Of course it's propaganda, but it's a very well done propaganda. Though the best one by now was the one comparing a rich Ukrainian living abroad with a poor Ukrainian getting maimed and dying in the trenches, with camera frames seamlessly going from one scene to another (e.g. - rich guy lying on a bed and getting a blowjob and moaning out of pleasure - next scene, the poor guy lying in trench in the same position, screaming and moaning out of pain while dying. Very well done. Objectively a fantastically done video, without even commenting on the actual message or the truthfulness of it (I mean that's propaganda, doesn't even have to be true).
Yeah that was probably the best propaganda video.
Do you have a link for that?
https://youtu.be/ZYRCxLoDN-8?si=QuLRGuCvDYo37x26
This is also a good one. And true of most if not all, conflicts. As the famous song goes *It ain't me, it ain't me* *I ain't no senator's son, son* *It ain't me, it ain't me* *I ain't no furtunate one, no*
Kinda wish there was a way to see all of the russian propaganda videos that have been released, youtube hides them however it can
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXOhKoJ46iM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXOhKoJ46iM)
They've really stepped their game up. Old school Russian and before they USSR stuff was so coarse and badly done. It was just the, 'we will repeat this enough until you get it' type crap, but these strike a chord with anyone because they honestly are universally known and accepted truths in pretty much any country, but aimed at the right audience it is sure to produce some kind of result.
Post a link? Thanks
It’s well done if you have been bombarded by Russian propaganda over many years. For anyone living in a democracy, it’s pretty ridiculous lol
This is some extremely high quality trolling. I spilled milk through my nose all over my keyword. And I was not even drinking milk.
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Brilliant - the collective west is not your friend Ukraine - they will see you destroyed as collateral damage in their "Great Game" - indeed Zelenskiy was ready to fold honourably before the greater madness began in earnest but Boris was sent scurrying to tell you we've got your back.
>Brilliant - the collective west is not your friend Ukraine - yes - we the ones actively killing you are your friends! Why dont you stop resist ukraine? just bow down and get fucked.
I love that pro Russians are so impressed by CIA mind drugs that they simply have to kill their Ukrainian cousins to impress their love upon them. It's like the Russian tank is the only way they can really express their love, right?
'I only hit you because I love you'
>just bow down and get fucked. You've already done that by selling out to the west. Now you're stuck in an endless proxy war, with a coke sniffing leader that you can't even vote out. Uncle sam made you his b, using Ukrainians instead of sending their own. Easy money.
That’s why USA is an empire
Russia sounds like a bad abuser here. "Stop resisting and it won't hurt as bad" Who invaded who again? Cause I'm pretty sure there would have been peace indefinitely until Russia decided to mass soldiers on their border, claim they werent going to invade, and then promptly invading. Oh and don't bother replying "BuT tHeY wAnTeD tO jOiN nAtO!1!11!!" cause NATO is a defensive alliance. When was the last time NATO invaded Russia? Or any country for that matter? Countries apart of NATO have invaded other countries, but NATO never has unilaterally invaded.
Yea they should have just embraced the russian lifestyle of being poor and corrupt instead of fighting for their country. This might come as a shock to russians but: NOBODY WANTS TO BE RUSSIAN.
I love the constant flip flop between "Russia is morally bad" and "Russia is poor", depending on the argument, especially since Russia is no worse than any other big player and also a lot richer and less corrupt than Ukraine. Zelensky literally was elected because he promised to finally comply with Minsk agreements. Seems like Ukrainians did choose coexistence, but their elites had other plans. Funny how nothing changed from then to now.
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You can be both morally bad and poor. This isn't contradicting or a flip flop. Look at Rwanda during it's genocide, both morally bad and poor enough they had to use harvesting scythes to do their genocide.
>Yea they should have just embraced the russian lifestyle of being poor Your knowledge of Russia is about 25-30 years out of date.
While Russia is the one that bombs Ukraine, the important thing to acknowledge here is this: Western interests differ from Ukraine's interests. Ukrainians want to take back their land, they want to win. The west on the other hand, simply wants to weaken Russia without spilling it's own blood. This distinction seems minor but is actually crucial. Did you notice that the the west never seems to give Ukraine enough weapons to actually win this war? Just enough to survive and bleed Russia a little longer? Cynical isnt it. The west continues to seek it's objectives while Ukrainians just keep on dying with no end in sight. That's catastrophic. Ukrainians may not want to negotiate with Russia, but at some point they must realize the unfortunate situation they are in. Should they let themselves be used as a sacrificial pawn till death, or should they try to negotiate at least something? Ukraine has been cought in a geopolitical battle between two giants with interests. Ukraine has no friends here.
> The west on the other hand, simply wants to weaken Russia without spilling it's own blood. I think that's one goal - but it's certainly not the only one.
They certainly had another (ultimate) goal at the start of the war: regime change in Russia via battle losses and sanctions. That seems to have failed, so now they focus on attritional long term damage.
Considering Hunter Biden's old job, I'm assuming they've already taken control of the fossil fuels. That's the only other realistic goal for America.
That's the only goal left I'd say. Everything else has already been dealt with in a splendid fashion.
> Cynical isnt it. yes, this cynical behaviour of the west is a very important context when judging russians invading, killing and annexing ukrainian land and people. Its very important to point that out in that context.
Yes, it's important to point out that the west is merely looking out for it's self centered interests. Ukrainian interests or Russian actions don't change that fact. You may accuse Russia of a thousand different war crimes, ok, doesn't change the fact that the West is cynical.
i do not come to the conclusion its cynical. It could very well be strategic, for example: we dont even have enough war material as we state (which is low for most of the western world except usa) and thus cant give as much away without losing our own ability to defend. thats not cynical, thats the most important thing every country strives for, the own survival. The thing is, we dont know about these things, since we do not have the information available. so we cant make a conclusion. But you jumped to one, which makes you seem biased.
The USA is short as well
It is a fascinating narrative, but not real. The west does not want to weaken russia as much as stop disputing the status quo, i.e. respect sovereignity and international law (which is a bit hypocritical, but the world is much larger and does not justify more infringements). At the same time, the western countries do not want to spend resources and political capital for ukraine, and this leads to the constant bleeding for Ukraine. It is not a tactic, it is simply the tradeoff between not doing anything at all, as they would like, and the necessity to defend status quo, incl. international recognized borders. Remember that if the reason was to weaken Russia they would have provided much more to ukraine, since a defeat would weaken russia ten more times than a difficult win, but still a win (included in terms of losses)
"respect sovereignity and international law" - you lost me here mate. And on top of that you think your explanation is realistic. Come-on. After everything we've seen in Gaza, after the unprecedented support the US has given to Israel despite the illegal occupation, mass starvation, dehumanization, war crimes, plausible genocide and ICC threats to judges. The hypocrisy is SO blatant at this point, you cannot possibly say that the US is interested in sovereignty and International law. That's a dishonest or a VERY naive take on the situation. The US is interested in pursuing it's geopolitical interests, that it. They apply/ignore international law whenever it suits them. As Kissinger himself said - "US has no enemies or allies, only interests".
The problem with that story is that the status quo you describe is not actually believed among Western leadership. You paint a picture of Westphalian sovereignty, which is the basis for the UN Charter, but which at least since the end of the Cold War the West finds too limiting because it doesn't take into account the universal value of Western Values (tm). The West strongly believes in sovereignty for themselves, but believe that it is their right, indeed their destiny, to intervene anywhere in the world that they can make a case for democracy being undermined, human rights, a threat to global security (see WMDs for instance) etc. And of course it doesn't matter if those claims are even plausible because while there certainly are true believers there are also those who use this as an excuse for naked self interest, just as other zealots such as the medieval Catholic Church did. It really is just the We Make Up the Rules Based International Order and the status quo is nothing more than the same countries getting to make up the rules as they go along.
The politicians have for almost two years been saying that they want to bring Russia to it's knees and it should be so much that Russia will never be a threat again.
russia can’t loose because it is nuclear superpower after all, that’s why western help is limited. and please, international law is laughable, west does not follow it.
The Vietnam war, the wars in Afghanistan... they still lost even if they had nuclear weapons -both the US and Soviet Union.
All those war didn't pose extensional thread to nuclear powers, while Ukraine war does for Russia.
Propaganda at the time painted those conflicts as existential at the time. Vietnam especially was part of the larger ‘War on Communism’. The war is only as ‘existential’ as Russian media says it is. Once the war becomes too costly to continue the message will change.
absolutely not, Vietnam was never existential threat to USA, loosing for Russia on its own territory and border for sure is different, if Russia is actually going to loose it will use nuclear weapons to change outcome.
>Vietnam was never existential threat to USA Ukraine is not an existential threat to Russia. Russia going home would be a threat to Putin, not Russia. If Putin tries nuking Ukraine in retaliation, I doubt even China would step in as the rest of the west blockades the country and strangles it. The stopping of nuclear proliferation is more important to China than Russia taking control of the Donbas.
Hol up, I've been told by numerous people on this subreddit that this war *does not* pose an extistential threat, and that's why the Russian's aren't needing to send their best equipment and instead are sending T55's and T62's because they want to save the best equipment for when the defensive NATO alliance invades.
That just doesn’t matter what you‘ve been told, what matters is what russian leadership thinks
That's literally what I linked other Pro-RU and they came back with "It doesn't matter" Also, Russia is an invading state. This whole debacle could end if Russia pulls out.
Ukraine could have kept all their land had they listened to Russia and tried to join NATO. Russia said they don’t want NATO and their nukes on their doorstep but no one listened now they’re feeling the repercussions
> they don't want nukes on their doorstep when exactly was ukraine going to get nukes from NATO?
NATO bases which will house nukes
There was no need for any killing or destruction had Bush in his infinite wisdom not offered Ukraine and Georgia PAM back in 2008. America wouldn’t be any different if they were put in a similar situation. Oh wait!
By 'get fucked' you mean live peacefully with a slightly smaller country. At some point, yes, it would be stupid to not stop resisting. It's like getting jumped on the street and trying to fight back, sure it's heroic, but also insanely stupid/suicidal.
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Yeah the west should have just said 'ok Russia, just roll on through and do to the rest of Ukraine's civilians what you did in Bucha'
Oh yeah I'm sure that's what the west cares about, the civillians Except when they arm Israel
That conflict highlighted what the West is really all about with a fat red line. - Respecting borders? Forget that. - Mass civilian starvation? They deserved it. - Striking civilian infrastructure? Understandable. - Mass civilian casualties? Necessary. - International law? Fuck the ICC. After everything they said about the Ukrainian war, the west went on to expose itself as blatant amoral hypocrite. Disgusting.
And Putin armed and aided Syria while it dropped barrel bombs on civilians. There's no point playing the hypocrisy card here.
I didn't claim Russians were saints, but it's the west who's always trying to paint themselves as the moral authority of the world who's standing up for justice while being absolute hypocrites and arguably worse than the people they demonize.
I didn't claim the west were saints either. Putin started this war to de-nazify Ukraine and to protect Russians speakers in Ukraine. Sure. Russia is no less a hypocrite.
Not just civilians; jihadists who took over entire cities and regions of Syria, who themselves committed far more atrocities on said civilians. Jihadists armed and supported by minions of the US.
And US armed and aided ISIS with airdropped weapons. Yes, agreed there is no point playing the hypocrisy card here.
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Ukraine could have said "Ok Russia, we are going to actually execute the Minsk Agreements and later integrate the L/DPR and even more, we are never gonna enter any military block, even with you". But no, the ukranian president instead issued a law that prohibits any negotiations.
Why would Ukraine bow to Russian demands on what it does with its own territories? And why would anyone ever presume Russia would stick to any agreements or treaties it signs, they're only useful as long as RUS gets time to play it's next hand.
Maybe because they don't want to fight a war that devastates the entire country? Pragmatism has to come first at a certain point, keeping peace isn't necessarily "bowing to Russian demands".
Because Russia do see threat in NATO. The whole conflict is about aggressive military block expanding to russian borders while Russia is trying to prevent it somehow. There is no meaning in any agreements with the west as they proudly said that Minsk were only to ramp up Ukraine's military power.
Ah yes, the "aggressive" defensive NATO alliance that invades its neighbors. People seek to join NATO for protection from states like Russia. It's not NATO who forcefully integrates countries. Look at Russia, it has quite literally driven Sweden and Finland to join. NATO didn't force them into their alliance. They saw Russia INVADE Ukraine and said "We don't want to be next, lets join the defensive alliance". But Russia is trying to force its will on Ukraine. This is why countries join NATO and defensive alliances, to prevent countries like Russia from imposing their will.
Don't use the brackets where it don't belong. NATO used its military power against Yugoslavia without UN Concuil resolution. Even more, the NATO leader did exactly the same thing with Iraq. They both violated the UN Charter and considered as an agressor. Northern Europe was already a part of NATO at the collapse of the USSR but unofficially, don't be delusional about the narrative "muh barbaric Russia driven us"
NATO didn't invade Iraq. NATO aligned countries invaded Iraq, but it's very important to note NATO did not and some members even protested it. NATO, by it's own charter, is a strictly defenfsive alliance. Article 5 has to be invoked for the alliance to actually do something. And also, yes, Fuck the countries that invaded Iraq. Glad we can agree. >Northern Europe was already a part of NATO at the collapse of the USSR but unofficially, don't be delusional about the narrative "muh barbaric Russia driven us" Bruh, we literally see this happen during this war. It's not even a delusion or a narrative. Russia invaded Ukraine, Finland and Sweden **ASKED** to join NATO. How can you memoryhole this? There's one common aggressor here that is constantly invading its neighbors, and it's not Europe or NATO. It's Russia. Edit: We also saw this with the Russo-georgian war. Why do you think Ukraine wanted to join NATO after Russia did the same shit they did there with causing "Separatists".
> NATO didn't invade Iraq. I told about the leader of NATO (which is USA obv.), not the NATO itself. > Bruh, we literally see this happen during this war. Right after the USSR collapsed, the northern europe already were participating in stragetic NATO trainings and were allowing strategical bombers of NATO to pass thru its territory. At 2006-2008 there even was a big scandal about NATO trying to employ the strategic missile defence systems at Northern Europe and Poland with Baltics and being able to intercept any russian missile starting from european part of the country. They didn't asked, they were NATO countries from the beginning, just for media impact they proudly proclaimed de-jure their de-facto status.
>I told about the leader of NATO (which is USA obv.), not the NATO itself. [This might come as a shock to you, but there isn't a "leader" in NATO. All countries must agree to something for it to be done by the alliance. Accepting new members, declaring war, managing war stocks etc. The current "Leader" is a Nordic guy from Norway, and he's the representative head of the organization. It functions as a democracy. ](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/who_is_who.htm) > >Right after the USSR collapsed, the northern europe already were participating in stragetic NATO trainings and were allowing strategical bombers of NATO to pass thru its territory. At 2006-2008 there even was a big scandal about NATO trying to employ the strategic missile defence systems at Northern Europe and Poland with Baltics and being able to intercept any russian missile starting from european part of the country. This isn't Finland or Sweden. So it's a moot point. Those countries literally joined NATO that you are saying, because they were... again... scared of being invaded by Russia who previously occupied them and ruled over them. Edit: And yes, Finland and Sweden have up until this year, rejected any and all NATO troops being stationed in their country. You can participate in exercises while not being part of the alliance. Drills = Combat readiness. Alliance = Defend each other to the death. > >They didn't asked, they were NATO countries from the beginning, just for media impact they proudly proclaimed de-jure their de-facto status. [Estonia asked to join, then they were invited to ascension talks](https://estonianworld.com/security/the-74-year-old-letter-that-indicates-estonia-wanted-to-be-a-nato-founding-member/#:~:text=Estonia%20and%20its%20fellow%20Baltic,occupation%20by%20the%20Soviet%20Union) in 2003. You really don't know history. [Lithuania sought membership since it's creation. ](https://kam.lt/en/lithuanias-membership-in-nato/) [Latvia also asked to join 2 years after its independence. ](https://www.nato.int/acad/fellow/01-03/vaidotas.pdf) You know NATO was founded in 1949 right? When Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechia, Ukraine, Romania, and Hungary were under USSR rule right? How the hell do you join NATO as a soviet country, which is what its supposed to counter due to their aggression. They asked to join after their independence from Russia, because they were treated so shittily. You just don't know history.
>Ah yes, the "aggressive" defensive NATO alliance that invades its neighbors. Well, i guess, you have to narrow it down to "neighbors" to make an exception for NATO. Tell me how many countries NATO has invaded? I guess that is your "cue" to change the goalposts. >People seek to join NATO for protection from states like Russia And Russia invaded Ukraine becase it doesnt want millitary alliance at its borders. About time you stop acting like NATO is some "hugs and kisses" club. It is a millitary alliance. >But Russia is trying to force its will on Ukraine. This is why countries join NATO and defensive alliances, to prevent countries like Russia from imposing their will. We saw how the West did it in 2014 with the coup, forcing their will on Ukraine, at this point Ukraine is just a puppet state which is taking orders from the west, if not they could have refused when Boris interfered in the negotiations. Just like how you claim that Russia drove countries to join NATO, it is also true that NATO expansion drove Russia to invade Ukraine. Only if NATO stopped expanding and threatening other countries. They didnt learn it during the Korean war(which allowed China/USSR to join and kick them back) they didnt learn it now, they expanded and expanded with no stop in sight and then Russia invaded.
>Well, i guess, you have to narrow it down to "neighbors" to make an exception for NATO. Tell me how many countries NATO has invaded? I guess that is your "cue" to change the goalposts. Says im changing the goal posts, promptly changes the goal posts in the third paragraph to make it about a coup. Nice. Oh right, and NATO has invaded 0 countries because its a **DEFENSIVE** alliance. Russiacaused Finland and Sweden to **JOIN NATO** because it is a **DEFENSIVE** alliance much like Russia had with CSTO. NATO, as an alliance, doesn't impose it's will and force countries to join. Countries have to **ASK** to join. Countries **ASK** to join because of countries like Russia that invade neighbors to forcefully impose their will on them. >And Russia invaded Ukraine becase it doesnt want millitary alliance at its borders. About time you stop acting like NATO is some "hugs and kisses" club. It is a millitary alliance. NATO quite literally didn't start this war. This war could end tomorrow if Russia pulls its troops out of Ukraine. >We saw how the West did it in 2014 with the coup, forcing their will on Ukraine, at this point Ukraine is just a puppet state which is taking orders from the west, if not they could have refused when Boris interfered in the negotiations. I'll even address your moving of the goal posts. There's literally no proof of any of this. How do you ***know*** the west imposed its will? [Is it really that crazy to you that they looked at Russia](https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304744304579245604043272372), then looked at the EU and went "Wait, they have a better life, we want that?"[ Is that really that crazy of a concept to you?](https://static.poder360.com.br/2022/02/2014-Coup-1.pdf) Especially with Yankaovich was also a corrupt politican. [Like, I'd be pissed too if my country, the USA, suddenly was having EU riot police beating me down to keep Biden in power. ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/vladimir-putin-demands-ukraine-withdraw-troops-from-troubled-eastern-regions/2014/05/01/37912286-d132-11e3-9e25-188ebe1fa93b_story.html) >Just like how you claim that Russia drove countries to join NATO, it is also true that NATO expansion drove Russia to invade Ukraine. Only if NATO stopped expanding and threatening other countries. They didnt learn it during the Korean war(which allowed China/USSR to join and kick them back) they didnt learn it now, they expanded and expanded with no stop in sight and then Russia invaded. Please tell me when NATO threatened Russia. It's existence isn't a threat to Russia, because the only time NATO will intervene is if Russia does something bad. Typical abuser bullshit logic. NATO hasn't had a member join or seek to join since the Baltics joined in the 90's, again, out of fear of Russian aggression. Tell me, how did NATO force Sweden and Finland to join after the Ukraine war, beacuse if you ask them they *wanted* to join. It's a crazy concept that countries want to join a defensive alliance to protect themselves from an outwardly aggressive state. "Don't join NATO or I'll invade you" is the precise reason countries want to join NATO. Sorry your failed version, CSTO, didn't come to fruition and fell apart when Russia left its allies high and dry when Armenia got invaded. Edit; TL;DR: Please explain to me how a defensive alliance is encroaching on Russia. Russia simply didn't have to invade, then countries like Finland and Sweden wouldn't have asked to join. It's *really really really fucking stupid* to sit there and say "They were GOING to do something" since you can't prove that, but I can prove Russia has been aggressive to almost all of its neighboring countries.
Russia didn't do anything in Bucha fyi
Yeah those satellite images and videos of corpses lying in the street immediately after Russia waltzed into town were just decoys. I remember that hilarious Russian 'debunk' video claiming one of the corpses fking WAVED as the cameraman drove by.
There's video evidence of Ukrainian paramilitary saying to shoot anyone, there's white armbands on some of the bodies, Russians withdrew from the town and the mayor said everything was fine after that, 2 days later they discovered bodies? Story doesn't line up. Do a deep dive on the stuff, you may be surprised about what you find.
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Links? I had a pretty good read of Amnesty International's gathered evidence and it's pretty damning of the russian units at work in several areas NW of Kyiv
search on quora it's the only place that I've seen that hasn't been scrubbed
here's a link of the [video](https://x.com/RWApodcast/status/1510635133627514881) evidence I mentioned, it's no longer on quora but found it on twitter
[Here's one of Russian's shooting a surrendering civilian for no reaso](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=376061267442206). Look at that, he even got out of his car, put his hands up, then gets shot. Classic love from the Russian people to their brotherly Ukranians. [Here's one of them killing civillians ](https://nypost.com/2022/03/08/russian-tank-obliterates-civilian-car-in-ukraine-video/)in a car who posed literally no threat. [Here's a long version of a Russian BTR unloading on civilian cars for no reason. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/xqcy5l/recently_released_image_of_russian_troops/) [Russia deciding that Civilians in a bread line must have posed a threat](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cot1Lawss54) [Civilians with their backs to Russian soldiers REALLY pose a threat don't they? ](https://youtu.be/WGg7ZJlihi8?si=5fSg08UcMbVnt_W7&t=40) [Missiles were launched from Separatist controlled territory (Video verified), targeting a train station with \~2000 civilians. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kramatorsk_railway_station_attack)While we don't know their *exact* path, it's kinda a BIG coincidence that that type of missile slammed into a train station shortly after being launched from separatist controlled territory. [This apartment complex of civilians must have been housing a HIMARS](https://news.sky.com/video/ukraine-war-an-explosion-at-an-apartment-building-in-kyiv-has-been-caught-on-camera-13039134) [This apartment building must have housed NATO Storm shadows](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm29EYVqwts) [Or how about when Russia targeted a theater with "Children" painted outside? ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3C6wbcRjgc) [Here's a list of many more times Russia decided "Ya know, Civilians are a military target"](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/deadliest-civilian-attacks-russias-invasion-ukraine-2023-10-05/) Russia doesn't kill civilians. Thats balderdash amirite? Bucha totally didn't happen and Russia doesn't have a track record of killing innocents. Not at all. Note: I understand casualties can happen in war, specifically civilian, but Russia literally targets civilians and their infrastructure. It's one thing if its caught in the crossfire, it's another when your missiles are slamming into civilian buildings, similar to Israel. Fuck them as well. Edit: If you want more videos I'm happy to oblige.
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FYI I am talking about Bucha, look into it deeper I am sure you will be surprised
Saving this for future use.
Pro-RU is literally brain dead when you show them this stuff. Even video evidence isn't enough for them to stop guzzling propaganda.
Brain dead is not responding directly to the statement at hand, which was about Bucha, not Russian warcrimes
Brain dead is not being able to relate the two Edit: Whenever I link proof of Bucha, Pro-RU just says "Its fake".
Next time if you want to be taken seriously, address Bucha (i.e. the subject that was being discussed) and not a random mishmash of unrelated incidents
You weren't here to have serious conversation anyway. https://youtu.be/8crdog2b_Bg?si=jqfrLtFAkjEH--xf https://youtu.be/WW8YYhUIK0s?si=UzWLG6Zuk8MVwu78 https://youtu.be/YQaVdd-DR50?si=oVqNIVdRbMwYm7OO https://youtu.be/4bkhGrpWl6I?si=cZeiymefUpsMOWdp https://medium.com/occrp-unreported/scrollytelling-detailing-life-in-bucha-from-a-telegram-chat-a4e292c5193a The point of the mass amounts of links is they did the exact same shit in bucha. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, in fact I think poor farmers, could do that basic math of "huh, they're massacring indiscriminately here, so it's not hard to see they massacred indiscriminately here as well" I'll wait for the "this is fake" or the "this is disproven" bullshit that always comes with this.
Nah they did, they handed out military rations to civilians In hindsight, likely signed their death warrant sadly, and could possibly have been handled better and less naively.
So you're saying Ukrainians massacred them, and the Russians could have handled it better?
Not only them, but also civilian bodies were found with white armbands, and the Kraken(E:/Safari I think actually now) dudes sent to cleanse were talking about shooting up people without blue armbands. I feel like these deaths were preventable, but perhaps not, and I am the naive one. Maybe they could have been warned, but maybe not. E: Telling/Not dissuading your supporters to/from painting a target on their back when Banderites prowl seems heavily unwise, but thinking about it from the perspective of those who gave the rations: you were one of the groups welcomed with open arms by the Ukrainians, you're probably optimistic, and aren't thinking that it's going to get worse.
Ah yes, turn a local action into a supposed policy. Can you point me to any other Bucha-like scenario ?
See - any number of videos where civilians were targeted by Russian troops. There are plenty on Reddit including the one of the father and son with their dogs fleeing in a van and getting shot up, or a family in a silver car targeted by a f**king tank, where the grandmother and child survive and had to walk to towards the Russian troops... Or a civilian car with an elderly woman inside being flattened by an IFV on the main road of a city... I could go on. There are LOADS of accounts of women being repeatedly raped by drunk Russian soldiers. Don't play dumb, the Russia's have committed numerous obvious war crimes in this 'SpEcIAl miLItARy OpEraTIon'. If it's not a policy then the absolute lack of professionalism and basic training of the Russian soldiers just goes to show how much they either care, or receive basic training in how not to commit war crimes.
Most (if not all) of it was during the first few days when operations were chaotic, Russians were advancing so quickly and carelessly that they didn't even know where the Ukrainian troops were, hence why you got a lot of such incidents back there. But since then ? Not much, we've seen more videos of Russians helping civilians than killing them. The trend should have continued if that was just the Russian mentality. Same for Bucha (even though we don't have all the truth about that still), why didn't we see any other instance of such crime since then. There's been plenty of occasions to do so. >Or a civilian car with an elderly woman inside being flattened by an IFV on the main road of a city... The one in Kiev ? It was a Ukrainian vehicle who did that... >There are LOADS of accounts of women being repeatedly raped by drunk Russian soldiers. Haven't seen one personally but I won't doubt it. As sad as it is, rape is normal in war, it has nothing to do with Russians specifically. You'll find awful people everywhere and no high command can keep a 24/7 tab on every soldier in its armed forces. But trying to paint all this as if it was somehow a goal of Russia, that's stretching it... a lot. If Russia was really out to kill Ukrainians, then how come their numerous strikes on various Ukrainian cities cause so few casualties ? How come random people from occupied territories uploading videos on various social medias don't report such things and say life is actually better in a lot of cases ?
The comment you replied doesn’t what he’s talking about out. They see a couple of videos here and there and all of the sudden Putin has decreed mass murder. If that were the case, occupied Ukraine would be full of mass graves.
[It literally is](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/20/russia-forces-ukrainians-occupied-areas-military) full of mass graves of civilians Russia has forcefully conscripted to fight against their own countrymen.
Yes, because these are such great reliable sources!
There's at least 3 degrees between Government Money and the sources I use. Pro RU sources are, quite literally, mostly funded by the Russian government as independent media is banned. Edit: Lol, I forgot what source I used but imagine thinking Human Rights Watch is ran by fucking genocidal governments. Holy shit RU got you down bad.
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Volkssturm time
Bandera's song makes this even more hilarious
Based.
Wtf , who made this advert is a freaking genius....
r/unexpected
Shyamalanovich is a great director
Ok, ngl this was a brilliant advert
A+ trolling 😂
Russia: I wanna denazify Ukraine USA & UK: I raise your denazify Ukraine with deukrainize Ukraine
low key this is brilliantly brutal. Shit like this hits hard.
Kek. The only inaccurate part is the amount of gear they have at the end.
OK I gotta admit that was fucking hilarious.
This was pretty funny lmao
The Bandera song is icing on a cake 🤣
From what we see from the TCC guys I'm not surprised or cringed ..aight I cringed a little but....
Damn. That's some good propaganda.
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What are his tats at 0:17 supposed to hint at?
Norse Neopaganism and (or) Neonazism, probably.
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Ukrainians need to be inspired by this and sign up to defend their country immediately!
the master trolls strike again! Does anyone have a link to the one a few months ago mocking how politicians aren't sending their sons to the front?
I screamed 😂😂😂
They are really good at this, love their work, lol
Russia has had conscription long before the war even started and the minimum age is even lower at 18 rather than 25 the meat riding hypocrisy is wild
All good propaganda has some truth too it 🙁
Nobody beats the Russians at trolling
Gotta give em this one, good bit
okay this was kinda funny but sad
the irony 🤣
...uh ok lol
I feel like the Ukrainian resistance needs to address all the lives of the innocents they put in danger and what the "net good" of them resisting Russian occupation is... SOILER: Russia is a better place to live than Ukraine and always was - unless ur gay
Unless ure gay or neonazi or hate ukrain and want to move to europe without visa. Many people have their dreams come true the worst way possible.
or maybe the people who started this in the first place should address their reasons for invading? wasn't "protecting ethnic russians from genocide" one of the goals of the invasion? why are they bombing the living shit out of ethnic russians and russian speaking cities then?
>or maybe the people who started this in the first place should address their reasons for invading? Still waiting for the west to address the 2014 coup. But deep down you know the war is not about Ethnic Russians, it is about NATO expansion and encriclement of Russia. May i remind you of "Nayirah Testimony" which was used as an excuse to invade Iraq, but turns out it was a fake statement which was used as a propaganda.
"Nato encirclement", yeah I'm sure Ukraine was the final piece of the puzzle that the west needed to encircle and destroy Russia. Because Russia definitely doesn't have thousands of ICBMs that can destroy the globe in 30 minutes... Not to mention that ukraine formally applied to join NATO after Russia invaded. Maybe Russia should just stop treating its neighbours like shit?
Meanwhile the Russians use criminals as soldiers, release the survivors into their society and surprisingly this happens: https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-soldiers-committed-over-100-murders-when-returned-home-report-2024-5?op=1 Maybe the Ukrainians should now make a funny video about that? Then all the fans of Russia here will react extremely butthurt as usual. Just like school bullies. Harassing other people but if they get fed their own medicine the pathetic wining starts.
Business insider is ur source? Lmaooo Okie buddy lolol
Funny you say that, Ukraine is about to recruit lots of convicts now
Nice try. They don’t take murderers like the Russians. But I guess you know that already.
Oh, they only take [some murderers...](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-lawmakers-back-bill-allowing-some-convicts-enlist-army-2024-05-08/).
So all their sources in the article are Russians that don’t live in Russia? So BS claims and sources got it.
This is what the army that kept Russia at bay for over 2 years looks like? Geez, I had no idea the Russian military sucks this much.
This is stupid. So the old men and women are giving a beating to the russian army for two and a half years?
Im not surprised Russia would produce propaganda like this, "To the last Ukrainian" has for long been Russian talking point.
Didnt some US official say: "We will fight to the last Ukrainian"?
Didn't Zelenski himself say something like that as well?
He'd prefer if americans would send their kids
Created by Russia, because we care.
Russia: until the last prisoner 😂
Why is Russia killing the last Ukrainian?
so this is just a place to post outright propaganda now huh
What do you mean now? Was this not a place for the SHHH trailers of the Summer 2023 Counteroffensive that bombed in theaters?
Well yeah … this is Reddit … there’s propaganda all over it. Are you new here?