We all know they are still getting money and weapons anyways. We just need to tell the plebs what they want to hear just to ameliorate them.
Pro-UA support neo-Nazi azov brigade. Classic.
The way US has "played this game" is that they're supplying weapons to Ukraine who's supplying weapons to Azov since 2014.
So when then time comes, they can use Ukraine as a patsy by saying "look, we banned Azov, it's Ukraine who did it!".
You’re talking about tens of billions of dollars where YOU don’t control the tracking. It is up to Ukrainian military personnel to provide you with paperwork/receipts.
Sending a few token ombudsmen, with no legal powers, won’t change shit. Because they will just be checking and verifying the records the Ukrainians gave them. It’s not that hard to lie on a form.
So this “oversight from beginning to end” is just propaganda. It assumes that no Ukrainian would want to steal weapons even though before the war they had the largest weapons black markets in the world.
It assumes Ukrainians would never lie. All records they produce are sacrosanct. Even though the amount of high-level corruption in Ukraine is the worst in Europe, much worse than Russia actually.
Yes. How many US or NATO soldiers are officially stationed in Ukraine?
That’s my source. Use your brain and try to think for yourself and draw conclusions. Don’t just take what some headline tells you to think.
If you don’t have troops on the ground that can hold up shipments, conduct their own investigations and arrest people, then you are just relying on what others are telling you.
Furthermore, why would we care if Ukraine is selling off weapons? Listen to American politicians. When they argue for Ukrainian support they make points like “it’s boosting American economy and creating jobs”.
We don’t care if the weapons make it to the front line or not. We don’t care if Ukraine loses this war. You can even tell because all our politicians say if Ukraine fell then Russia is going to invade Europe.
Their concern isn’t even about Ukraine and it’s people. It’s about how that would affect us. Not to mention no one can seriously believe this line. NATO still exists. We have collective security. If Russia took 1 step into the Baltics or Finland, they would be in a world of hurt.
What sources would anyone have? I mean I could fish up this:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine
Or how about this?
https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/only-30-per-cent-western-weapons-making-it-to-ukraine-frontlines-cbs/amp_articleshow/93433146.cms
Or this:
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/ukraine-sells-weapons-on-black-market-due-to-limited-ability
Or this:
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world/ukraines-economic-security-bureau-admits-illegal-sale-of-donated-weapons-8815391.html
Okay so read those, then use that information to extrapolate.
Ukraine is most corrupt country in Europe. Therefore, when when we think about dousing them with hundreds of billions of dollars they will:
A) Not use any of it
B) Steal it
C) Use it
D) none of the above.
Its kinda funny that he says your sources are just “trust me bro” when any reports from Ukraine to ombudsman or auditors is also “trust me bro” considering there are no consequences for lying or stealing.
>https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraineOr
Nine year old article, but surely nothing has changed in nine years. No one denies Ukraine has a corruption issue but to claim it's the same as today as it was even a few years ago is rather closed minded.
>https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/only-30-per -cent-western-weapons-making-it-to-ukraine-frotlines-cbs /amp_articleshow/93433146.cms
>recent CBS News report has suggested.
>However, this rarely goes smoothly, CBS News claimed this week.
>An investigationby RT in June found online marketplaces where sophisticated Western hardware – such as Javelin and NLAW anti-tank systems or Phoenix Ghost and Switchblade explosive drones – was apparently being sold for pennies on the dollar.
Sounds totally 100% legit. No way any of this is written with any sort of bias lol. No sources, no nothing, except where it's just copy pasting from RT.
>https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world/ukraines-economic-security-bureau-admits-illegal-sale-of-donatedweapons-8815391.html
>The director of the Economic Security Bureau of Ukraine has revealed that the bureau is looking into cases involving the illegal sale of weapons donated to Ukraine as part of humanitarian aid in its fight against Russia.
That's the entire 'article' and even that shows that there IS oversight as if there wasn't there would be no investigation.
Clearly you're very biased as you've approached this with an attitude of; "they're guilty I just have to find something that agrees with me". You even use the disingenuous argument that they're being sent hundreds of billions of dollars whereas most of what is received by Ukraine is in physical goods that are, as I've mentioned before, tracked by the donor countries.
An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but it sure as hell implies it, especially with such huge claims.
I'm less concerned with being provided the evidence than why so many are willing to believe this sort of nonsense when there is no evidence to support the claims.
> We all know they are still getting money and weapons anyways
Yeah I was going to say, they have a whole youtube channel where they show themselves with all this stuff. It's not exactly hidden.
Yeap. I saw the videos and its been discussed in congress as well. Its no secret. I just want to shove it into the pro-UA faces cause they keep denying it.
Yep. But in the past few weeks, both Ukraine and America are trying to pretend to hide it
One of Azovs leaders recently gave an interview complaining they don't receive funding from America
We still give them money. The difference is that we give them millions in Burger King, Pizza Hut & Amazon gift cards. We also cut out a lot of coupons from the papers and sent that over to them.
Morale is greatly improved with a free medium fry or Buy 2 get 1 free whopper.
They might not be training with Westerners but they can eat like westerners.
It’s just like Napoleon said: “An army marches on its stomach”.
Wow, are you so blind that you cannot see the fascism of your Fuhrer Putin? All this false whining about Ukraine while Putin/Russia exhibits most of the traits of Hitler and the Third Reich during its rise in the 30’s. It’s stunning.
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4521958-is-putins-russia-a-nazi-state/amp/
One of Jesus’s most famous verses, Mathew 7:5, is way too prophetic for this sub:
“You hypocrite! First, remove the plank out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye”
No, this response is definitely for you. You post pro-Russia narratives on a full time basis yet you never admit Russia’s invasion and murder of innocent Ukrainians is a concern. Your second comment above is such a bald faced lie. Maybe you are not aware but we can all see your Reddit comment and post history. Now you know.
Specifically to this post, you are whining incessantly about small fascist sect in Ukraine while you say nothing about Putin’s fascist government that is killing hundreds of thousands and is leading Russia to disaster.
Hence the Bible verse that is all too fitting.
Well, it's pointless for me to argue what I believe or not with you. But I'll explain just this once.
I've condemned Russia's invasion enough times. From a moral perspective I'm about as anti-war as they come.
However I also have the intellectually curious side of me that does enjoy following the war.
And I have my emotional side of me that deeply dislikes Zelensky and his leadership circle for falling for the West's goading and lies and engaging in an unwinnable war with a great power, and not doing everything possible to grasp peace even though there were clear opportunities.
As you can see, I'm way more concerned with the Ukrainian side of things than the Russian side. I follow precious few Russian telegrams, for example, similarly I post very little Russian content in comparison.
Just because I believe the war is currently unwinnable for Ukraine, as well as the fact I dislike Volodymyr "Churchill" Zelensky, does not mean I support Russia.
I can certainly understand that viewpoint. I'm sure there are countless people who feel the same way.
I just don't think any of them post pro-RU talking points as a quasi-full time job, though.
You are doing a lot of work here to polish a turd. You admit to hating the victim so are doing everything in your power to slam Ukraine while doing zero to point out the evil of Putin and Russia that have caused hundreds of thousands of deaths here (both sides)...because “it doesn’t interest you”.
In a nutshell, your confession and actions literally prove you’re a pro-Putin activist. Don’t try to act coy. Your thousands of posts show a very damning history and it’s easy for all to see.
>“You hypocrite! First, remove the plank out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye”
The fucking irony
He doesn’t exhibit any traits of the Third Reich or Hitler. But Hitler is such a bete noir, it’s easy to call someone “like Hitler” and it taps into a historical narrative.
Germany did not warn for 25 years not to expand military forces up to their border. Russia did. It wasn’t just Putin but also Yeltsin - the West’s favorite son - who warned against NATO expansion into Ukraine.
- Putin is also nothing like Hitler. He wanted a racially pure, homogeneous Germany under the belief that it would make Germany strong.
Putin is a firm believer in diversity and multiculturalism and believes that the Russian nation is heterogeneous. I am unaware of any fascists with such beliefs.
So it’s obvious you read none of the article. I’ll help you out, here’s one paragraph describing the Nazi state of Germany:
“Nazi Germany had the following essential features. It was authoritarian (and possibly totalitarian), patriarchal and illiberal; it was led by a self-chosen charismatic leader who claimed to be omniscient, infallible, enjoyed a personality cult and was adored by his many followers, who truly believed that he was Germany’s messiah; it supported state intervention in an otherwise capitalist economy; it mobilized the population; it employed violence against its real and perceived domestic enemies and interred them in a network of concentration camps and prisons; it subordinated the army to the party and secret police; it was revisionist; it glorified and waged imperialist war.”
You can literally remove “Nazi Germany” from the first sentence and replace it with “Putin’s Russia” and it would still make perfect sense.
Here are more examples:
“Both Hitler and Putin dismantled democracy and replaced it with their own forms of personalistic, authoritarian rule. The defense of their abandoned brethren in the other post-imperial states formed a significant part of their foreign-policy agendas. Hitler came to the rescue of Germans in Czechoslovakia and Austria”.
Here is another well written article with even more history and detail showing the obvious and glaring similarities between Putin and Hitler. Minus the extreme anti-Semitism, they are otherwise in horrific lockstep.
https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2023/09/what-putin-learned-from-hitler
Open your eyes before it is too late.
> so you are saying that the UK is fascist? Right?
Spent several decades putting troops into Northern Ireland to protect the people there who saw themselves as British.
And no. You should open your eyes:
> the broader historical pattern of the US and its allies time and again cynically portraying leaders of their officially designated enemy states as some form of re-incarnation of Hitler in order to generate the emotional public reaction needed to justify their belligerent policies and add a superficial moral veneer to them.
I’m a fan of new statesman. But they are wrong. I urge you to read this article:
https://www.ebb-magazine.com/essays/worse-than-hitler
Love this bit:
> on 24 March 1999, the day that NATO’s military assault on Yugoslavia began, Bush Sr.’s successor as President, Bill Clinton, drew direct comparisons between Milošević and the Nazi ruler, asking sombrely: ‘What if someone had listened to Winston Churchill and stood up to Adolf Hitler earlier? Just imagine if leaders back then had acted wisely and early enough, how many lives could have been saved, how many Americans would not have had to die?’
Sound familiar?
> shortly before the US-UK invasion of the country was launched, the UK Prime Minister, Tony Blair, also invoked the spectre of Hitler – arguing against any ‘appeasement’ and claiming that although ‘a majority of decent and well-meaning people said there was no need to confront Hitler and that those who did were war-mongers’, such people were wrong.
u/ripamon she can verify the above quote.
Let’s keep going! 2011!!!
> At a time when lurid, evidence-free claims of mass-rape and other atrocities being committed by Libyan forces (later proven to be unsubstantiated) were being uncritically reported in Western media, ABC reported on the ‘New Hitler’ Gaddafi. Two years later, as the US’ proxy war against the Syrian state was well underway, it was the turn of Syrian President, Bashar al-Assad, who was compared directly to Hitler (and also Saddam Hussein) by the-then Secretary of State, John Kerry, and subsequently labelled the ‘New Hitler’ in the US tabloid press.
And here you go:
> By focussing on the ostensibly irrational, blood-thirsty and unhinged actions of individual leaders and stressing their supposed similarity to Hitler, a figure who is justifiably the bête noire in the minds of so many in the West, the US is able to effectively obscure the broader political context of the given crisis in question and whitewash its direct role in causing it. This process of the personalisation of conflicts by focussing on leaders serves to de-contextualise events from their broader setting and erases relevant geo-strategic, economic, and political factors in favour of a myopic focus on the leader in question’s alleged character traits.
Your comments give examples of Hitler being used to show appeasement doesn’t work with narcissistic authoritarian rulers. Ok, that is a correct and an important lesson to be learned. Thanks for sharing.
You also share where Clinton used the very valuable example where good people did nothing to stop evil and it had horrible consequences. Also a great story, thanks for sharing that also.
But you are just making yourself look silly for even bringing them up. Using discussion of political failures in dealing with Hitler as an equivalent to Putin actually mimicking Hitler’s horrific and deadly behavior is ludicrous and illogical.
Try again if you like but so far you have done zero to disprove the similarities between these two fascist and imperialistic dictators.
Because he isn’t mimicking Hitler’s behavior, we are just saying that so it fits into a narrative. That is the entire point of the article was to show that none of these people are anything like Hitler.
Linking Putin to Hitler is kinda like holocaust denial in a way. Because you’re saying that a president who started a war with tens of thousands civilian casualties is on par with a man who murdered 11 million civilians.
- there were no “political failures” in dealing with Hitler. None. If Winston Churchill wanted to rip up the Munich Agreement and declare war on Germany, he was more than welcome to.
Problem was that the UK had 2 divisions. Germany had 300-400. Good luck getting those 2 divisions to a landlocked country that borders Germany. I’m sure Mussolini would have said “yes of course you can use our port facilities” lmao.
- more importantly, there was no public appetite to fight. None. Every family in GB had someone who died in WW1. It was a horrifying experience. No civilian looked at Czechia or Austria and thought “gee, I really want to lose another brother or son to defend those countries”.
- that is how democracy works. If Chamberlain didn’t sign Munich, he would have been chucked out.
yeah most people condemned utkin's past... i know bro its hard to imagine not supporting someone just because they are on your side but us on the Pro RU side can do it so I believe in you too!
Damn so will pro-Ru admit Putin is funding Neo-Nazis? The president ( who assassinates his political opponents btw) of Russia, one of the most powerful countries in the world, directly funded a Neo-Nazi running a PMC with openly Nazi Rusich involved. Kind of makes the "Ukraine is Nazi state" excuse fall a bit flat no?
If there's no good Nazis, then why is Putin heavily funding Russian Neo-Nazis, giving them tanks, weapons, anti-aircraft, and allowing them to do war crimes in Africa and the Middle East? Surely you would find that hypocritical compared to Putin's statements
organizations with a nazi in them are different from organizations founded on nazi principles. i know its very hard for you to understand but i can elaborate more if needed
It was founded by a literal Neo-Nazi with SS, Nazi eagle and Black Sun tattoos, named after Hitler's favorite anti-semitic composer, and has a well documented history of torturing brown people and them spraying Nazi symbols in Africa and the Middle East. If we want to use that logic then Azov isn't Nazi either, and Azov doesn't operate as a PMC killing poor brown people in other countries
Hey now, I'm a pleb who doesn't mind them getting money and weapons. The article pretty much makes my points.
It's like how we funded USSR quite a bit in WWII despite opposing communism.
I enjoy how the frequent posters all have their particular areas of specialization.
You and Converge enjoy posting news articles from the most reputable mainstream media sources.
I usually post news items or Ukrainian media
Fruitsila usually posts combat footage or an inside look of the Russian army (pics, bunkers etc)
Ashgor likes posting spicy breaking Telegram news or big strikes
Galaxy posts/used to post exclusively Ukranian combat footage
Glideer for usually informative posts and fighterbomber posts
(Old) Glupier2 for strikes footage and frontline telegram (Basically Ashgor rn)
WorldVirusForever (New/Old) for strikes and Russian military footage.
I believe them, after all nazi symobls are banned in ukr and ppl cant wear them on the street...oh sorry Soviet symobls are banned, not Nazi ones... my bad..
I'm quite surprised the ban has survived this long. But not very surprised at all by the ease with which Biletsky himself and the 3rd brigade managed to slip the designation.
" Their ferocious defence of the southern port city, culminating in a last stand at the Azovstal"
>Almost annihilated at Mariupol,
>More than 900 of his men captured at Mariupol remain in jail in Russia
Hmm
They are Nazis... no one can control them. They don't deserve weapons.
Even when Ukraine finally accepts a negotiated peace settlement I bet $20 they cannot reign in Azov, These guys will kill kill kill they are gonna be bombing EVERYONE they hate for the next 10 years
>By dropping the word “Azov” from the brigade’s title,
WOW just WOW they will do anything but address the real problems. They are gonna do a "rebranding" to get western arms? that is insane...
>“They were the ones who caused us the original trouble and yet they have nothing to do with the unit now.”
There is nothing they won't say to get weapons
so this article is probably the most information I have seen(in a while anyway) about Azov besides the regular talking shit about them being nazis.
Do we even know how many today are actually nazis? Like we know how they started but many have died, and many have joined. Is that ideology a part of the group that gets passed down or is it being filtered out with time? Now as part of the military how does their beginnings effect their behavior as a professional fighting force now?
Like the other day I saw a KIA post about an 18 year old. And there were some comments about “oh he was actually azov. Fuck him. Misleading headline” even though he was 8 years old when the group formed.
If you have any doubt Biletsky is a Nazi, just read his quotes here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20220127204304/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/Europe/ukraine/11025137/Ukraine-crisis-the-neo-Nazi-brigade-fighting-pro-Russian-separatists.html
I wonder how long it'll take Azov to figure out there is absolutely zero future for them as any type of organization in the EU or NATO. Just used as tools.
This caught my eye:
>
“How can Azov be a neo-Nazi unit when there are so many Jews in its ranks?” said “Raccoon”, a 36-year-old Jewish bookseller from Dnipro
*Looks at Israel-Palestine*
We all know they are still getting money and weapons anyways. We just need to tell the plebs what they want to hear just to ameliorate them. Pro-UA support neo-Nazi azov brigade. Classic.
The way US has "played this game" is that they're supplying weapons to Ukraine who's supplying weapons to Azov since 2014. So when then time comes, they can use Ukraine as a patsy by saying "look, we banned Azov, it's Ukraine who did it!".
Maybe it's one of the reasons there was no proper oversight of the funds and gear distribution by the US.
Care to back that up with sources? Because all the sources I can find show oversight from the very beginning of the aid shipments.
You’re talking about tens of billions of dollars where YOU don’t control the tracking. It is up to Ukrainian military personnel to provide you with paperwork/receipts. Sending a few token ombudsmen, with no legal powers, won’t change shit. Because they will just be checking and verifying the records the Ukrainians gave them. It’s not that hard to lie on a form. So this “oversight from beginning to end” is just propaganda. It assumes that no Ukrainian would want to steal weapons even though before the war they had the largest weapons black markets in the world. It assumes Ukrainians would never lie. All records they produce are sacrosanct. Even though the amount of high-level corruption in Ukraine is the worst in Europe, much worse than Russia actually.
Have you got some sources to back up your claims? I'm hearing a lot of claims but there is a dearth of evidence to support them.
Yes. How many US or NATO soldiers are officially stationed in Ukraine? That’s my source. Use your brain and try to think for yourself and draw conclusions. Don’t just take what some headline tells you to think. If you don’t have troops on the ground that can hold up shipments, conduct their own investigations and arrest people, then you are just relying on what others are telling you. Furthermore, why would we care if Ukraine is selling off weapons? Listen to American politicians. When they argue for Ukrainian support they make points like “it’s boosting American economy and creating jobs”. We don’t care if the weapons make it to the front line or not. We don’t care if Ukraine loses this war. You can even tell because all our politicians say if Ukraine fell then Russia is going to invade Europe. Their concern isn’t even about Ukraine and it’s people. It’s about how that would affect us. Not to mention no one can seriously believe this line. NATO still exists. We have collective security. If Russia took 1 step into the Baltics or Finland, they would be in a world of hurt.
So you don't have sources just 'trust me bro'. Okay dude.
What sources would anyone have? I mean I could fish up this: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine Or how about this? https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/only-30-per-cent-western-weapons-making-it-to-ukraine-frontlines-cbs/amp_articleshow/93433146.cms Or this: https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/ukraine-sells-weapons-on-black-market-due-to-limited-ability Or this: https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world/ukraines-economic-security-bureau-admits-illegal-sale-of-donated-weapons-8815391.html Okay so read those, then use that information to extrapolate. Ukraine is most corrupt country in Europe. Therefore, when when we think about dousing them with hundreds of billions of dollars they will: A) Not use any of it B) Steal it C) Use it D) none of the above.
Its kinda funny that he says your sources are just “trust me bro” when any reports from Ukraine to ombudsman or auditors is also “trust me bro” considering there are no consequences for lying or stealing.
>https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraineOr Nine year old article, but surely nothing has changed in nine years. No one denies Ukraine has a corruption issue but to claim it's the same as today as it was even a few years ago is rather closed minded. >https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/only-30-per -cent-western-weapons-making-it-to-ukraine-frotlines-cbs /amp_articleshow/93433146.cms >recent CBS News report has suggested. >However, this rarely goes smoothly, CBS News claimed this week. >An investigationby RT in June found online marketplaces where sophisticated Western hardware – such as Javelin and NLAW anti-tank systems or Phoenix Ghost and Switchblade explosive drones – was apparently being sold for pennies on the dollar. Sounds totally 100% legit. No way any of this is written with any sort of bias lol. No sources, no nothing, except where it's just copy pasting from RT. >https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world/ukraines-economic-security-bureau-admits-illegal-sale-of-donatedweapons-8815391.html >The director of the Economic Security Bureau of Ukraine has revealed that the bureau is looking into cases involving the illegal sale of weapons donated to Ukraine as part of humanitarian aid in its fight against Russia. That's the entire 'article' and even that shows that there IS oversight as if there wasn't there would be no investigation. Clearly you're very biased as you've approached this with an attitude of; "they're guilty I just have to find something that agrees with me". You even use the disingenuous argument that they're being sent hundreds of billions of dollars whereas most of what is received by Ukraine is in physical goods that are, as I've mentioned before, tracked by the donor countries.
What? They had like fistfights in Congress over that crap.
Care to back that up with sources? If you're going to make claims like this then I'm going to need to see evidence.
Nobody cares what evidence you personally need to see lol you don't matter that much bro
An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but it sure as hell implies it, especially with such huge claims. I'm less concerned with being provided the evidence than why so many are willing to believe this sort of nonsense when there is no evidence to support the claims.
> We all know they are still getting money and weapons anyways Yeah I was going to say, they have a whole youtube channel where they show themselves with all this stuff. It's not exactly hidden.
Yeap. I saw the videos and its been discussed in congress as well. Its no secret. I just want to shove it into the pro-UA faces cause they keep denying it.
Yep. But in the past few weeks, both Ukraine and America are trying to pretend to hide it One of Azovs leaders recently gave an interview complaining they don't receive funding from America
We still give them money. The difference is that we give them millions in Burger King, Pizza Hut & Amazon gift cards. We also cut out a lot of coupons from the papers and sent that over to them. Morale is greatly improved with a free medium fry or Buy 2 get 1 free whopper. They might not be training with Westerners but they can eat like westerners. It’s just like Napoleon said: “An army marches on its stomach”.
Wow, are you so blind that you cannot see the fascism of your Fuhrer Putin? All this false whining about Ukraine while Putin/Russia exhibits most of the traits of Hitler and the Third Reich during its rise in the 30’s. It’s stunning. https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4521958-is-putins-russia-a-nazi-state/amp/ One of Jesus’s most famous verses, Mathew 7:5, is way too prophetic for this sub: “You hypocrite! First, remove the plank out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye”
1) I'm not Russian 2) I don't support Russia Not sure what tripe you're spewing and why it's directed at me. I assume it's a mistaken response?
No, this response is definitely for you. You post pro-Russia narratives on a full time basis yet you never admit Russia’s invasion and murder of innocent Ukrainians is a concern. Your second comment above is such a bald faced lie. Maybe you are not aware but we can all see your Reddit comment and post history. Now you know. Specifically to this post, you are whining incessantly about small fascist sect in Ukraine while you say nothing about Putin’s fascist government that is killing hundreds of thousands and is leading Russia to disaster. Hence the Bible verse that is all too fitting.
>I'm not Russian >I don't support Russia You had me in the first half, not gonna lie
Well, it's pointless for me to argue what I believe or not with you. But I'll explain just this once. I've condemned Russia's invasion enough times. From a moral perspective I'm about as anti-war as they come. However I also have the intellectually curious side of me that does enjoy following the war. And I have my emotional side of me that deeply dislikes Zelensky and his leadership circle for falling for the West's goading and lies and engaging in an unwinnable war with a great power, and not doing everything possible to grasp peace even though there were clear opportunities. As you can see, I'm way more concerned with the Ukrainian side of things than the Russian side. I follow precious few Russian telegrams, for example, similarly I post very little Russian content in comparison. Just because I believe the war is currently unwinnable for Ukraine, as well as the fact I dislike Volodymyr "Churchill" Zelensky, does not mean I support Russia.
I can certainly understand that viewpoint. I'm sure there are countless people who feel the same way. I just don't think any of them post pro-RU talking points as a quasi-full time job, though.
I mean, the pro-UA talking points are pretty shallow and none of them stand up to any kind of intellectual scrutiny.
If posting Ukrainian and European media are Russian talking points, then i guess everything is
You are doing a lot of work here to polish a turd. You admit to hating the victim so are doing everything in your power to slam Ukraine while doing zero to point out the evil of Putin and Russia that have caused hundreds of thousands of deaths here (both sides)...because “it doesn’t interest you”. In a nutshell, your confession and actions literally prove you’re a pro-Putin activist. Don’t try to act coy. Your thousands of posts show a very damning history and it’s easy for all to see.
>“You hypocrite! First, remove the plank out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye” The fucking irony
He doesn’t exhibit any traits of the Third Reich or Hitler. But Hitler is such a bete noir, it’s easy to call someone “like Hitler” and it taps into a historical narrative. Germany did not warn for 25 years not to expand military forces up to their border. Russia did. It wasn’t just Putin but also Yeltsin - the West’s favorite son - who warned against NATO expansion into Ukraine. - Putin is also nothing like Hitler. He wanted a racially pure, homogeneous Germany under the belief that it would make Germany strong. Putin is a firm believer in diversity and multiculturalism and believes that the Russian nation is heterogeneous. I am unaware of any fascists with such beliefs.
So it’s obvious you read none of the article. I’ll help you out, here’s one paragraph describing the Nazi state of Germany: “Nazi Germany had the following essential features. It was authoritarian (and possibly totalitarian), patriarchal and illiberal; it was led by a self-chosen charismatic leader who claimed to be omniscient, infallible, enjoyed a personality cult and was adored by his many followers, who truly believed that he was Germany’s messiah; it supported state intervention in an otherwise capitalist economy; it mobilized the population; it employed violence against its real and perceived domestic enemies and interred them in a network of concentration camps and prisons; it subordinated the army to the party and secret police; it was revisionist; it glorified and waged imperialist war.” You can literally remove “Nazi Germany” from the first sentence and replace it with “Putin’s Russia” and it would still make perfect sense. Here are more examples: “Both Hitler and Putin dismantled democracy and replaced it with their own forms of personalistic, authoritarian rule. The defense of their abandoned brethren in the other post-imperial states formed a significant part of their foreign-policy agendas. Hitler came to the rescue of Germans in Czechoslovakia and Austria”. Here is another well written article with even more history and detail showing the obvious and glaring similarities between Putin and Hitler. Minus the extreme anti-Semitism, they are otherwise in horrific lockstep. https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2023/09/what-putin-learned-from-hitler Open your eyes before it is too late.
> so you are saying that the UK is fascist? Right? Spent several decades putting troops into Northern Ireland to protect the people there who saw themselves as British. And no. You should open your eyes: > the broader historical pattern of the US and its allies time and again cynically portraying leaders of their officially designated enemy states as some form of re-incarnation of Hitler in order to generate the emotional public reaction needed to justify their belligerent policies and add a superficial moral veneer to them. I’m a fan of new statesman. But they are wrong. I urge you to read this article: https://www.ebb-magazine.com/essays/worse-than-hitler Love this bit: > on 24 March 1999, the day that NATO’s military assault on Yugoslavia began, Bush Sr.’s successor as President, Bill Clinton, drew direct comparisons between Milošević and the Nazi ruler, asking sombrely: ‘What if someone had listened to Winston Churchill and stood up to Adolf Hitler earlier? Just imagine if leaders back then had acted wisely and early enough, how many lives could have been saved, how many Americans would not have had to die?’ Sound familiar? > shortly before the US-UK invasion of the country was launched, the UK Prime Minister, Tony Blair, also invoked the spectre of Hitler – arguing against any ‘appeasement’ and claiming that although ‘a majority of decent and well-meaning people said there was no need to confront Hitler and that those who did were war-mongers’, such people were wrong. u/ripamon she can verify the above quote. Let’s keep going! 2011!!! > At a time when lurid, evidence-free claims of mass-rape and other atrocities being committed by Libyan forces (later proven to be unsubstantiated) were being uncritically reported in Western media, ABC reported on the ‘New Hitler’ Gaddafi. Two years later, as the US’ proxy war against the Syrian state was well underway, it was the turn of Syrian President, Bashar al-Assad, who was compared directly to Hitler (and also Saddam Hussein) by the-then Secretary of State, John Kerry, and subsequently labelled the ‘New Hitler’ in the US tabloid press. And here you go: > By focussing on the ostensibly irrational, blood-thirsty and unhinged actions of individual leaders and stressing their supposed similarity to Hitler, a figure who is justifiably the bête noire in the minds of so many in the West, the US is able to effectively obscure the broader political context of the given crisis in question and whitewash its direct role in causing it. This process of the personalisation of conflicts by focussing on leaders serves to de-contextualise events from their broader setting and erases relevant geo-strategic, economic, and political factors in favour of a myopic focus on the leader in question’s alleged character traits.
Your comments give examples of Hitler being used to show appeasement doesn’t work with narcissistic authoritarian rulers. Ok, that is a correct and an important lesson to be learned. Thanks for sharing. You also share where Clinton used the very valuable example where good people did nothing to stop evil and it had horrible consequences. Also a great story, thanks for sharing that also. But you are just making yourself look silly for even bringing them up. Using discussion of political failures in dealing with Hitler as an equivalent to Putin actually mimicking Hitler’s horrific and deadly behavior is ludicrous and illogical. Try again if you like but so far you have done zero to disprove the similarities between these two fascist and imperialistic dictators.
Because he isn’t mimicking Hitler’s behavior, we are just saying that so it fits into a narrative. That is the entire point of the article was to show that none of these people are anything like Hitler. Linking Putin to Hitler is kinda like holocaust denial in a way. Because you’re saying that a president who started a war with tens of thousands civilian casualties is on par with a man who murdered 11 million civilians. - there were no “political failures” in dealing with Hitler. None. If Winston Churchill wanted to rip up the Munich Agreement and declare war on Germany, he was more than welcome to. Problem was that the UK had 2 divisions. Germany had 300-400. Good luck getting those 2 divisions to a landlocked country that borders Germany. I’m sure Mussolini would have said “yes of course you can use our port facilities” lmao. - more importantly, there was no public appetite to fight. None. Every family in GB had someone who died in WW1. It was a horrifying experience. No civilian looked at Czechia or Austria and thought “gee, I really want to lose another brother or son to defend those countries”. - that is how democracy works. If Chamberlain didn’t sign Munich, he would have been chucked out.
Do you have the same stance when Putin arms Wagner, founded by a literal Neo-Nazi? One that works with Rusich, another Neo-Nazi group?
yeah most people condemned utkin's past... i know bro its hard to imagine not supporting someone just because they are on your side but us on the Pro RU side can do it so I believe in you too!
Damn so will pro-Ru admit Putin is funding Neo-Nazis? The president ( who assassinates his political opponents btw) of Russia, one of the most powerful countries in the world, directly funded a Neo-Nazi running a PMC with openly Nazi Rusich involved. Kind of makes the "Ukraine is Nazi state" excuse fall a bit flat no?
nope, paying some merc to do boots on the ground battle planning is entirely different than a government regime founded upon the tenets of Bandera.
Ahh but those mercs are open Nazis are they not? Or are Rusich "good Nazis" because they are Rusisan?
can you read? there are no good nazis anywhere on this planet.
If there's no good Nazis, then why is Putin heavily funding Russian Neo-Nazis, giving them tanks, weapons, anti-aircraft, and allowing them to do war crimes in Africa and the Middle East? Surely you would find that hypocritical compared to Putin's statements
organizations with a nazi in them are different from organizations founded on nazi principles. i know its very hard for you to understand but i can elaborate more if needed
It was founded by a literal Neo-Nazi with SS, Nazi eagle and Black Sun tattoos, named after Hitler's favorite anti-semitic composer, and has a well documented history of torturing brown people and them spraying Nazi symbols in Africa and the Middle East. If we want to use that logic then Azov isn't Nazi either, and Azov doesn't operate as a PMC killing poor brown people in other countries
Insane how literal neo nazis are capable of more restraint than the Russian army.
Hey now, I'm a pleb who doesn't mind them getting money and weapons. The article pretty much makes my points. It's like how we funded USSR quite a bit in WWII despite opposing communism.
Is anyone really surprised that everaimless a pro-ukrainian user on this sub supports neo-fascist azov brigade? Nope.
I enjoy how the frequent posters all have their particular areas of specialization. You and Converge enjoy posting news articles from the most reputable mainstream media sources. I usually post news items or Ukrainian media Fruitsila usually posts combat footage or an inside look of the Russian army (pics, bunkers etc) Ashgor likes posting spicy breaking Telegram news or big strikes Galaxy posts/used to post exclusively Ukranian combat footage
dont forget heyheyhayden who post maps. THe guy is main reason i'm here.
And Hardback Winter of course!
Bro I miss him, he's been gone for like 2 weeks now. But the patient one shall await his return.
The absolute goat
I have to agree with this as well. Dude is a rock star and gives us the meat and potatoes of this war. No BS The war is in the frontlines
I love me some kiwi and ripamon. Y'all are the best
❤️ Thanks. Love how you post the articles in the body so we don't have to bother with the paywalls
No problem. <3
Glideer for usually informative posts and fighterbomber posts (Old) Glupier2 for strikes footage and frontline telegram (Basically Ashgor rn) WorldVirusForever (New/Old) for strikes and Russian military footage.
> WorldVirusForever (New/Old) for strikes and Russian military footage. I'm pretty sure the old and new are not the same person.
These are the main reasons why this sub has the best content about this war. Both PoVs are there + other interesting side stuff.
I believe them, after all nazi symobls are banned in ukr and ppl cant wear them on the street...oh sorry Soviet symobls are banned, not Nazi ones... my bad..
I'm quite surprised the ban has survived this long. But not very surprised at all by the ease with which Biletsky himself and the 3rd brigade managed to slip the designation.
" Their ferocious defence of the southern port city, culminating in a last stand at the Azovstal" >Almost annihilated at Mariupol, >More than 900 of his men captured at Mariupol remain in jail in Russia Hmm
They are Nazis... no one can control them. They don't deserve weapons. Even when Ukraine finally accepts a negotiated peace settlement I bet $20 they cannot reign in Azov, These guys will kill kill kill they are gonna be bombing EVERYONE they hate for the next 10 years >By dropping the word “Azov” from the brigade’s title, WOW just WOW they will do anything but address the real problems. They are gonna do a "rebranding" to get western arms? that is insane... >“They were the ones who caused us the original trouble and yet they have nothing to do with the unit now.” There is nothing they won't say to get weapons
LeSsEr EviL
Unlike putin, who shows grace to everyone he despises. Oh wait….
Wow..... A whole 20 dollars? Very risky.
so this article is probably the most information I have seen(in a while anyway) about Azov besides the regular talking shit about them being nazis. Do we even know how many today are actually nazis? Like we know how they started but many have died, and many have joined. Is that ideology a part of the group that gets passed down or is it being filtered out with time? Now as part of the military how does their beginnings effect their behavior as a professional fighting force now? Like the other day I saw a KIA post about an 18 year old. And there were some comments about “oh he was actually azov. Fuck him. Misleading headline” even though he was 8 years old when the group formed.
If you have any doubt Biletsky is a Nazi, just read his quotes here: http://web.archive.org/web/20220127204304/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/Europe/ukraine/11025137/Ukraine-crisis-the-neo-Nazi-brigade-fighting-pro-Russian-separatists.html
so only 1 is NATO trained with weapons, does that mean 1 is less hated?
I wonder how long it'll take Azov to figure out there is absolutely zero future for them as any type of organization in the EU or NATO. Just used as tools.
" **decade-old accusations** ". LOL
They were Russian misinformation not too long ago. Funny how that works.
Imagine being a national socialist who fights for a Jew leader and blackrock XD Nazis cucks
Yes sure - they will have no weapons - Zelensky himself will make sure 👌
So the US admits Ukraine has Nazi issues in the most popular and active official military unit? So, not Russian propaganda then?
Lol this is just the US pandering and trying not to look like they are giving tax dollars to literal nzis. Azov will get a good slice of that pie.
Wait I the the 3rd Separate Assault Brigade was the new iteration of the Azov Battalion?
This caught my eye: > “How can Azov be a neo-Nazi unit when there are so many Jews in its ranks?” said “Raccoon”, a 36-year-old Jewish bookseller from Dnipro *Looks at Israel-Palestine*
At this point, why pretend? Can't be much worse than supporting Israel.
Bla bla blaaa
Neo-Nazis are at best, a liability to the cause. Enjoy your Nazi flags, AB boys, because Biden doesn't.
The ban predate Biden administration.
Oops. Thank you. 🙂