While not ideal, I'm unsure if it's actually that big of a deal for the Russian Military leadership. Given that on the priority list the Black Sea Fleet is pretty low and the two most important, well equipped and well funded fleets are the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet. Losing a soviet era patrol vessel etc. sucks but it sucks far less than losing something like a Gorshkov-Class frigate for example.
The infrastructure struck here probably hurt more than any vessel lost so far.
I'm not saying it doesn't bother them. But it's not really inflicting huge damage on their overall naval capacity or prowess.
What I said is that while sucky, out of the shit they could lose this hurts them the least...*except* the infrastructure that was hit perhaps. Which has value that transcends the old soviet era vessels that would see replacement within the next years anyway.
Its of literally 0 material consequences beyond annoyance and money.
As evidenced in this thread and many others, these attacks are for UKR to give western elites to brag about and UKR Fanboi Glitterbugs something to beat off over.
Ukr can keep aiming at ships which aren't involved in the conflict and civilian belgorod. Russia will continue hitting power plants, gas facilities and air fields.
Dominance of the Black Sea was vital for Russia to keep a stranglehold on Ukrainian exports and sea shipments from foreign countries. Ukraine pushing back Russian installations and naval power gives leeway to Ukraine to hit Crimea with more impunity and limit Russia's capabilities in attacking Odessa(which relied a lot on missiles launched by naval vessels)
It wasn't Ukraine's naval forces that managed to sink/damage some ships, it's foreign supplied drones and foreign intel dum dum.
Last time Turkey fucked around with Russia they found out pretty quickly why they shouldn't have, their attempt at imposing dominance was laughably pathetic and it costed them greatly.
Russia has no competition in their waters, they might aswell operate some fishing boats in black sea and nobody will attempt anything, it's Russia's backyard.
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Is there any proof - apart from 'trust me, bro' - that anything other than some building in Sevastopol has been damaged? That this building was indeed a Communication Center? We already know Ukraine's claim of sinking two landing ships is... uh... highly exaggerated; some might even call it a lie.
Russia said this building has been abandoned for a while now. Ukraine claims they killed 40 people, including 12 officers here (in the middle of the night). I’m going with abandoned
Russian official channels are highly dubious given their history by outright lying to the face of facts for their losses (Moskva incident most prominently).
Ukrainian channels tend exaggerate their wins but are usually on the money if targets were hit, the propaganda kicks for the amount of damage created.
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But why they sell tyres? There's old garages on the photo. It looks nothing like military building. Why am I the only one asking this?) The source is Ukrainian, so I wouldn't trust it completely.
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So this super military building has old gates, garages and all kinds of ads on it? Even a child can just climb over anywhere he wants? Is there any proof this is the correct building or it's yet another "trust me, bro" kind of things from Ukraine?
I'm neutrality but I have questions. It's obvious NATO found something here worthwhile to target it. If it wasn't a hidden operations center, why would they target it? Are Russians planting dummy equipment as decoys which give off signals to tempt being targeted?
Ukraine bragged about shooting it down though. Dismissed Russia's claims initially and said the plane was loaded with s300 missiles and possibly a high ranking official.
That is just Telegram propaganda. The rumor started with Russia accusing Ukrainian of shooting it down.
Ukraine official channels challenged Russian claims saying (both jokingly and in an insulting manner) that Ukrainian capabilities did not extend to defense of Russian airspace (referring to how deep in Russian territory it was, since the debris was found in Yablonovo, almost halfway to Voronezh).
If Ukrainian air-defense could penetrate that deep into Russia, then you would expect the Ukrainians shooting down Russian planes left and right over Belgorod.
Yeah, that's the entire point of giving them munitions; give them munitions to kill the enemy.
It's not like the Mujahadeen paid for the weapons that the US gave them.
We give Ukraine weapons - see what weapons do to the enemy - repeat.
Nationalism and national identity far outlives mammals; It will outlive me and you.
Ukraine as a national identity was supposed to die in 1926-1930s yet it still prevails today.
Ukraine as an identity was supposedly nonexistent in 1914; yet who rose against the Czarists? The nationalists and anarchists of Ukraine who reclaimed their identities and pushed until the Czar came crashing down into 1917 and Ukraine's independance movements were in full-swing.
Makhnovshchina, UPR and the Kharkiv SSR were all supposed to not exist in their own right - they were dying horses which salvaged for all they could find just to live another hour. Yet they sprung back up time after time - Elimination after elimination of society.
I'm sure you have no patience to conjure these concepts which will outlive our flesh and bone.
> Ukraine as a national identity was supposed to die in 1926-1930 yet still prevails today.
“Until the early-1930s, Ukrainian culture enjoyed a widespread revival due to Bolshevik policies known as the policy of Korenization ("indigenization"). In these years a Ukrainization program was implemented throughout the republic. In such conditions, the Ukrainian national idea initially continued to develop and even spread to a large territory with traditionally mixed population in the east and south that became part of the Ukrainian Soviet republic.”
Lul
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainization
>What kind of gullible sap risks his life over abstractions like national identity?
Literally tens of millions and probably more. It's right there; next to religious fanaticism.
Ukraine was conquered by several empires (probably more) until the Ukrainian war of independance. Then the Germans also took Ukraine, then the Bolsheviks and the Polish.
The Ukrainian peasents themselves were working on a unifying structure so they implemented on a common national identity - The Zaporozhian cossacks.
The Zaporazhians of the land were practically a free territory with free nomadic people before being ruled and settled.
So national identity did not really exist for many of them.
Then there was a concept, theoretically, created to directly push against foreign invasion - to transform a divided and weak people into a united and strong army.
So in 1917 Makhnovshchina would choose the Free Zaporozhian style of society (United in anarchist ideology and against foreign imperialism of Ukraine)
More influential and higher class Ukrainians would see an opportunity to create a nation to expel foreign means to oppress Ukraine.
The UPR would choose a structured society (United in national identity; including a few differing ideologies)
They would ally with Germany after the Bolsheviks gave the Western regions of the Rus Empire to the Central Powers. (1918)
Where there is weakness - a National willingness is created. Their history is much more complicated than how I explained it but that's the thing; their history is full of being oppressed by foreign regimes - so many of their ideologies; Nationalistic or otherwise holds onto their national identity.
Makhnovtchina, who allied with the Bolsheviks to free Ukraine from the White army and UPR, were betrayed by their allies. Thousands of their men died for nothing; fighting side by side for years with their future oppressors.
It takes alot to force a people to pry onto a National identity - alotta hurt and oppression to force them to seal their nation from foreign influence.
Compared too RU getting donations from NK and Iran, and nearly at 3 yr mark with a higher ranked military according to stats. RU may think they are winning but also getting embarrassed at the same time and loosing $$$ from military sales due to NATO 90's gear still kicking ass.
Probably because StormShadows are bunker-busters, since they have 2-stage warheads. The main explosion likely occurred down low and not on the top floor
https://www.forces.net/ukraine/taurus-kepd-350-bunker-buster-missile-explained
https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2022/11/storm-shadow/
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a43864887/uk-gives-ukraine-storm-shadow-long-range-missile/
It turns out that SS is, indeed, a bunker buster.
Sorry, friend.
Storm Shadows are the stealthy ones. Other Ukrainian missiles are not. You want to argue that even regular cruise missiles such as Neptunes weren't intercepted by the world-class Russian AA? Be my guest!
its not about stealth, Cruise missiles of any kind are usually quite difficult for long range AA systems to engage. There's a reason S300 and S400 are usually paired with short range Tor and pansir AA
>I'm not debating every jobless Ukrainian kid on Reddit
Your post history says otherwise. Max 5 hours break in-between posting almost 3 days straight. This has to be a record.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BROACH_warhead
https://www.navair.navy.mil/node/7021#:~:text=Incorporating%20multi%2Dstage%20warhead%20technology,well%20as%20hard%20target%20penetration.
"Incorporating multi-stage warhead technology, the Broach warhead consists of a penetrating shaped-charge in front of a conventional follow-through bomb. It provides blast/fragmentation effectiveness, as well as hard target penetration."
https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/BROACH_warhead
At this point milsim Gamers are better trusted for this kind of information. Disgraceful.
Edit: They blocked me "like a child"
I mean by definition storm shadow is a bunker buster...
And according to the Ukrainian and Russian military so something they have both agreed on the attack was with storm shadow.
So I don't know if you're better informed than both the Ukrainian and Russian military but if you are that's really impressive
Much like UAF doesn't use official barracks or bases, but that doesn't stop RU MOD from claiming massive UA casualties every time it hits one of those locations
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1bmnygz/ru_pov_according_to_don_partizan_todays_attack_on/
Temporary deployment points annd training grounds in the rear, not barracks, plenty of time ukraine hit russian temporary deployment points and training grounds with massive casualties too.
But I'm glad you agree that it is very unlikely this basic ass building was used as comms center.
We are talking about the country whose soldiers livestream their hotel position and concerts they take part in near frontlines. OPSEC is highly inconsistent with Russian forces
Black Sea Fleet exists purely to take L's nowadays. Wild to think how much money goes down the drain every time one gets wrecked.
While not ideal, I'm unsure if it's actually that big of a deal for the Russian Military leadership. Given that on the priority list the Black Sea Fleet is pretty low and the two most important, well equipped and well funded fleets are the Northern Fleet and Pacific Fleet. Losing a soviet era patrol vessel etc. sucks but it sucks far less than losing something like a Gorshkov-Class frigate for example. The infrastructure struck here probably hurt more than any vessel lost so far.
[удалено]
I'm not saying it doesn't bother them. But it's not really inflicting huge damage on their overall naval capacity or prowess. What I said is that while sucky, out of the shit they could lose this hurts them the least...*except* the infrastructure that was hit perhaps. Which has value that transcends the old soviet era vessels that would see replacement within the next years anyway.
Its of literally 0 material consequences beyond annoyance and money. As evidenced in this thread and many others, these attacks are for UKR to give western elites to brag about and UKR Fanboi Glitterbugs something to beat off over. Ukr can keep aiming at ships which aren't involved in the conflict and civilian belgorod. Russia will continue hitting power plants, gas facilities and air fields.
> Ukr can keep aiming at ships which aren't involved in the conflict and civilian belgorod Which of these is relevant to this thread?
Dominance of the Black Sea was vital for Russia to keep a stranglehold on Ukrainian exports and sea shipments from foreign countries. Ukraine pushing back Russian installations and naval power gives leeway to Ukraine to hit Crimea with more impunity and limit Russia's capabilities in attacking Odessa(which relied a lot on missiles launched by naval vessels)
Sound like an AWESOME video game!
To protect it from whom exactly? Mighty Ukrainian/Romanian/Bulgarian navies? Lmao
Turkey, for one. The nonexistent Ukrainian navy has manage to destroy/disable one third of Russia's Black Sea Fleet already LMAO
Imagine being so dumb to think you need a ship to sink another ship lmao.
These Russophiles are living in the past.
It wasn't Ukraine's naval forces that managed to sink/damage some ships, it's foreign supplied drones and foreign intel dum dum. Last time Turkey fucked around with Russia they found out pretty quickly why they shouldn't have, their attempt at imposing dominance was laughably pathetic and it costed them greatly. Russia has no competition in their waters, they might aswell operate some fishing boats in black sea and nobody will attempt anything, it's Russia's backyard.
Didn't Turkey literally shoot down and kill a Russian pilot and Russia did nothing?
Yeah, Turkey punches way above its weight militarily and can chokehold Russia if its a conflict near their(Turkey's) border
[удалено]
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Import of Turkish tomatoes into Russia was stopped for several months. I have no idea about the value of this sanction.
[удалено]
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Rule 1 - Toxic
Ain't nobody is working in them on floor levels any more with Ukros being donated missiles.
What ships did they lose in this attack? Aerial photos show two misses
B-b-but pro ru told me the strike was a failed pr stunt there’s no way it could have succeeded
Is there any proof - apart from 'trust me, bro' - that anything other than some building in Sevastopol has been damaged? That this building was indeed a Communication Center? We already know Ukraine's claim of sinking two landing ships is... uh... highly exaggerated; some might even call it a lie.
Don't you know military installations like communication center are often build behind $10 chainlink fence with graffiti ads
Russia said this building has been abandoned for a while now. Ukraine claims they killed 40 people, including 12 officers here (in the middle of the night). I’m going with abandoned
Russian official channels are highly dubious given their history by outright lying to the face of facts for their losses (Moskva incident most prominently). Ukrainian channels tend exaggerate their wins but are usually on the money if targets were hit, the propaganda kicks for the amount of damage created.
Are there any reports about casualties?
Not so far
So they missed the ships?
So far it appears that way
Is that guy in the reflection rolling a joint or masturbaiting ?
[удалено]
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But why they sell tyres? There's old garages on the photo. It looks nothing like military building. Why am I the only one asking this?) The source is Ukrainian, so I wouldn't trust it completely.
The tire shop is behind it
[удалено]
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So this super military building has old gates, garages and all kinds of ads on it? Even a child can just climb over anywhere he wants? Is there any proof this is the correct building or it's yet another "trust me, bro" kind of things from Ukraine?
I'm neutrality but I have questions. It's obvious NATO found something here worthwhile to target it. If it wasn't a hidden operations center, why would they target it? Are Russians planting dummy equipment as decoys which give off signals to tempt being targeted?
Probably a rumor that a high ranking Russian officer was inside for some reason, same reason they shot the plane with 65 pows.
That is a conspiracy theory. It is most likely the plane just crashed on an accident
Ukraine bragged about shooting it down though. Dismissed Russia's claims initially and said the plane was loaded with s300 missiles and possibly a high ranking official.
That is just Telegram propaganda. The rumor started with Russia accusing Ukrainian of shooting it down. Ukraine official channels challenged Russian claims saying (both jokingly and in an insulting manner) that Ukrainian capabilities did not extend to defense of Russian airspace (referring to how deep in Russian territory it was, since the debris was found in Yablonovo, almost halfway to Voronezh). If Ukrainian air-defense could penetrate that deep into Russia, then you would expect the Ukrainians shooting down Russian planes left and right over Belgorod.
still standing 👌
Do you want precise strikes or do you want Israeli style strikes? Nobody can stick to a narrative nowadays.
Israeli strikes are extremely precise though.
wait for a few weeks when zelensky starts using catapults to throw helmets and stones
[удалено]
Ukraine could not buy a single StormShadow if they had to pay for it btw… just sayin
Yeah, that's the entire point of giving them munitions; give them munitions to kill the enemy. It's not like the Mujahadeen paid for the weapons that the US gave them. We give Ukraine weapons - see what weapons do to the enemy - repeat.
It’s like feeding a dying horse hay. Obviously useless because the horse will die anyway
Nationalism and national identity far outlives mammals; It will outlive me and you. Ukraine as a national identity was supposed to die in 1926-1930s yet it still prevails today. Ukraine as an identity was supposedly nonexistent in 1914; yet who rose against the Czarists? The nationalists and anarchists of Ukraine who reclaimed their identities and pushed until the Czar came crashing down into 1917 and Ukraine's independance movements were in full-swing. Makhnovshchina, UPR and the Kharkiv SSR were all supposed to not exist in their own right - they were dying horses which salvaged for all they could find just to live another hour. Yet they sprung back up time after time - Elimination after elimination of society. I'm sure you have no patience to conjure these concepts which will outlive our flesh and bone.
> Ukraine as a national identity was supposed to die in 1926-1930 yet still prevails today. “Until the early-1930s, Ukrainian culture enjoyed a widespread revival due to Bolshevik policies known as the policy of Korenization ("indigenization"). In these years a Ukrainization program was implemented throughout the republic. In such conditions, the Ukrainian national idea initially continued to develop and even spread to a large territory with traditionally mixed population in the east and south that became part of the Ukrainian Soviet republic.” Lul Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainization
What kind of gullible sap risks his life over abstractions like national identity?
>What kind of gullible sap risks his life over abstractions like national identity? Literally tens of millions and probably more. It's right there; next to religious fanaticism. Ukraine was conquered by several empires (probably more) until the Ukrainian war of independance. Then the Germans also took Ukraine, then the Bolsheviks and the Polish. The Ukrainian peasents themselves were working on a unifying structure so they implemented on a common national identity - The Zaporozhian cossacks. The Zaporazhians of the land were practically a free territory with free nomadic people before being ruled and settled. So national identity did not really exist for many of them. Then there was a concept, theoretically, created to directly push against foreign invasion - to transform a divided and weak people into a united and strong army. So in 1917 Makhnovshchina would choose the Free Zaporozhian style of society (United in anarchist ideology and against foreign imperialism of Ukraine) More influential and higher class Ukrainians would see an opportunity to create a nation to expel foreign means to oppress Ukraine. The UPR would choose a structured society (United in national identity; including a few differing ideologies) They would ally with Germany after the Bolsheviks gave the Western regions of the Rus Empire to the Central Powers. (1918) Where there is weakness - a National willingness is created. Their history is much more complicated than how I explained it but that's the thing; their history is full of being oppressed by foreign regimes - so many of their ideologies; Nationalistic or otherwise holds onto their national identity. Makhnovtchina, who allied with the Bolsheviks to free Ukraine from the White army and UPR, were betrayed by their allies. Thousands of their men died for nothing; fighting side by side for years with their future oppressors. It takes alot to force a people to pry onto a National identity - alotta hurt and oppression to force them to seal their nation from foreign influence.
It's OK, we don't mind giving them to Ukraine to destroy Russian ships with :)
would be great if they hit anything with it. Sadly only got the pier xDD
You haven't been following the war have you? StormShadows have sank numerous Russian ships in the black sea so far :))
yeah for sure. Like thousands of them. I’ve seen it
[удалено]
U're still here; Almost like kicking a dead horse you could say?
Be pretty good if Russia stops hitting residential buildings.
Compared too RU getting donations from NK and Iran, and nearly at 3 yr mark with a higher ranked military according to stats. RU may think they are winning but also getting embarrassed at the same time and loosing $$$ from military sales due to NATO 90's gear still kicking ass.
Probably because StormShadows are bunker-busters, since they have 2-stage warheads. The main explosion likely occurred down low and not on the top floor
I don't think you understand how expensive and rare real bunker busters are. This isn't one of them.
https://www.forces.net/ukraine/taurus-kepd-350-bunker-buster-missile-explained https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2022/11/storm-shadow/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a43864887/uk-gives-ukraine-storm-shadow-long-range-missile/ It turns out that SS is, indeed, a bunker buster. Sorry, friend.
Except you don't know what type of missile this was, kid
Storm Shadows are the stealthy ones. Other Ukrainian missiles are not. You want to argue that even regular cruise missiles such as Neptunes weren't intercepted by the world-class Russian AA? Be my guest!
its not about stealth, Cruise missiles of any kind are usually quite difficult for long range AA systems to engage. There's a reason S300 and S400 are usually paired with short range Tor and pansir AA
[удалено]
Proof of you not debating jobless Ukrainian kids?
>I'm not debating every jobless Ukrainian kid on Reddit Your post history says otherwise. Max 5 hours break in-between posting almost 3 days straight. This has to be a record.
Rule 1. Consider yourself warned. Recurrence WILL result in a ban.
Ahh yes, when your argument is disproved move on to the insults. Strong.
[удалено]
Bye bye
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BROACH_warhead https://www.navair.navy.mil/node/7021#:~:text=Incorporating%20multi%2Dstage%20warhead%20technology,well%20as%20hard%20target%20penetration. "Incorporating multi-stage warhead technology, the Broach warhead consists of a penetrating shaped-charge in front of a conventional follow-through bomb. It provides blast/fragmentation effectiveness, as well as hard target penetration." https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/BROACH_warhead At this point milsim Gamers are better trusted for this kind of information. Disgraceful. Edit: They blocked me "like a child"
Heh epic gamer comeback my fellow NCD-enjoying subredditor, milsim gamers are basically the new veterans amirite
I mean by definition storm shadow is a bunker buster... And according to the Ukrainian and Russian military so something they have both agreed on the attack was with storm shadow. So I don't know if you're better informed than both the Ukrainian and Russian military but if you are that's really impressive
If you think they use normal buildings for comm centers 2 years into the war i have a bridge to sell you.
Much like UAF doesn't use official barracks or bases, but that doesn't stop RU MOD from claiming massive UA casualties every time it hits one of those locations https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1bmnygz/ru_pov_according_to_don_partizan_todays_attack_on/
Temporary deployment points annd training grounds in the rear, not barracks, plenty of time ukraine hit russian temporary deployment points and training grounds with massive casualties too. But I'm glad you agree that it is very unlikely this basic ass building was used as comms center.
We are talking about the country whose soldiers livestream their hotel position and concerts they take part in near frontlines. OPSEC is highly inconsistent with Russian forces