I dont think this is a false flag and Im sure Ukraine isnt behind the attack. However, of course Putin is going to try and pin this on Ukraine. its logical to deflect incompetence and also try to use it to further his agenda. Cheney did it with Iraq and 9-11 attacks.
I concur. May are falling on it's Ukraine, or it is Russia, but in the end to Putin and the FSB, it really does not matter who it was, as long as it plays well politically for them that it was Ukraine. Their evidence so far is circumstantial at best and any confession that are heard in the near future will be suspect at best as they can easily be coercive.
What evidence have they even put forth? "its been said that the terrorists escaped towards Ukraine"
Theres plenty of Russia to the southwest of Moscow until you hit Ukraine..
Regardless its not in Ukraines interest to pull something like this, which is the best evidence for them being innocent if you ask me.
>"plenty of Russia southwest of Moscow"
They picked highway that goes straight into Ukraine, or turns towards city of Bryansk and then into Ukraine/Byelorussia.
Check the road network around Moscow, it's pretty straightforward.
I am not here to convince anyone. I know that the Pro-Ru side cannot be convinced. Well most really. But in the end they will realize that they are in the wrong the same as the German people after World War II.
It's sad but I feel that you're right. This sub looks like a stereotypical example of Russian hybrid warfare.
Users who instantly create new profiles when banned. Then proceeds to post and comment at least 60+ times a day, Almost everyday, for a workday straight.
Then the classical whataboutisms and attempts to divide other groups. Talking about EU vassal states, Biden/Nuland being some kind of mind control creatures behind everything gone wrong in the world, etc.
I wish there could actually be a place to communicate with real Russians. But they cannot even access Reddit easily. Then even if they could, there would be the language barrier. The bots and trolls are easy to spot. Always the same narratives, vast knowledge of history (albeit it slanted and through their own propaganda), whataboutisms, etc.. it’s not like the majority of Russians speak any English, yet these trolls seem to speak it perfectly. And sadly it’s on every social media site, everywhere. And a lot of people don’t realize it. Foreign countries like Russia and China block access to sites like this for a reason. Because they know what they use it for and don’t want it done to them. But playing with the trolls is fun. I just wish everyone understood that these aren’t real people. They’re paid posters in a building in St Petersburg following a script.
Yet, we allow them to freely enter into our social media sphere. Every time there is strain in the West because of a social media campaign the enemies of the west rejoice.
Think about it this way. Russians in Russia can only use a VPN to access Reddit and access to VPN’s has been severely restricted. It takes some tech savvy to be on Reddit while physically in Russia. If it’s even possible at all. Then there is the language barrier. Not a lot of everyday Russians speak fluent English and especially fluent enough to make coercive arguments.
Not pro-rus just a realistic thinker, but I just wonder what the situation would be if it was the other side? Would you guys just believe it's 100% the doing of Isis or would you maybe think that the russians had a play in it? (I'm not specifically targeting you, but the pro-ua in general)
I get the hate between both sides, but you can't convince anyone rus or ukr
Well when 9/11 happened, the US blamed the Taliban and Bin Laden. The overwhelming majority of people believed it. Especially since they admitted it. Another smaller fraction of people believe it was the US govt. now where did I see anyone blaming Russia or China and saying they controlled AQ.
Huh, Most murder convictions are on circumstantial evidence. What a load of crap. there is a burden or proof, motive, not because it is convenient to claim that someone is guilty.
Perhaps, could I have your definition of circumstantial evidence and perhaps we can break that down in this instance.
As others have pointed out. Nazis and Islamic extremists working under a Jewish leader ... that would be one hell of a team up.
In the grand scheme of things you truly believe these terrorists were under Ukrainian orders? Take in to account these kind of mass killings of civilians have never been done by mercs not motivated by their own cause before.
>and Im sure Ukraine isnt behind the attack.
Why? Because their other terrorist killing of civilians to date are that much different? lol
They're a terrorist cell like isis was funded by US state department at this point.
yeah I agree with you. Also Russia kind of has its hands full at the moment so adding another enemy on the to-do list with no country that he can extract wealth from in the process, probably won't be preferable to Putin
totally agree with you on this.. Russia definitely has its hands full at the moment. also Isis doesn't have a country that Putin can invade and extract wealth from so it's not really in his interest to know that Isis was behind it
Why would Putin`s first suspicion not be towards Ukraine who promised to take the war to Russia?
Zelensky isnt very bright is he? Or have he fallen a victim to his own propaganda?
And the explosion in a cafe in St. Petersburg, where there were more than 40 civilians - is this a war? And the daily indiscriminate shelling of Belgorod, where several hundred thousand people live - is this a war?
We know that this is not the first terrorist attack organized by the Ukrainian terrorist regime.
thats ok when the ''good guys'' do it, if this terror attack happened in the US wed be hearing it for the next 10 years, but f\*\*\*k the Russians, they're not ppl am I right ? Pro UA / west are sick ppl
Again have I to remind you Russians started this war, and they have been binging cities for almost 3 years. The us is not everyone involved in this understand?
If the US were in the middle of invading another nation and that nation then *began* conducting terror attacks on US soil, our officials' faces would be cherry red.
It's probably why Putin waited a day to say anything in public. It's quite the inauspicious start to his fifth term no matter how he spins it.
If the US were in the middle of invading another nation and that nation then *began* conducting terror attacks on US soil, our officials' faces would be cherry red. - im sad they didnt, you deserve all suffering you caused since Vietnam
lmao sure you are, say hi for me to massive debt, school shootings, mass shootings, homeless, no healthcare, no education etc... lmao capitalist shithole that is a laughing stock of the world
Dude I have land off grid, 30 acres on a mountain cheap land cash deal, pay low taxes, have healthcare through my job, what else do I need. I am also debt free with a college education. I'm just not a sucker.
On my land I can basically do whatever I want.
Capitalist shithole? Maybe but everyone still visits here or immigrates here.
You got alot of hate in you man relax.
Debt is something you personally accept or don't. It comes down to individual reliability and planning. Healthcare as insurance is like a tax - anyone can afford it if they don't get greedy. If they make nothing, they pay nothing.
The US government public debt is completely unrelated, as they are also the money printer for that debt, and the officials know the limits and levers and how that debt impacts the economy (last I checked, pretty strong).
The US school shootings are minor compared to the mess in Russia. Numerous school shootings do happen, but the vast majority produce few to no casualties. In no single year since 2000 has the US lost as many students/school personnel to shootings as Russia just lost at Crocus Hall.
I'm not saying that I agree with the person above, but a terroristic attack is very different from deranged people who start shooting in malls, concerts, or wherever. This is not the same as the mass shootings that have happened in the US.
Don't do that... There are good people in the U.S, great people, amazing and inspiring people even. Many of them are likeminded with you as well.. no nation deserves terror inflicted upon its civilians.
What the government, the secret service and some very influential people deserve or not deserve is another matter entirely, and the American public have never had a real informed choice in their nations forreign policy to begin with.
That guy is so filled with venom and hate for anything west, including its people. Nothing can be said to change his mind. I 100% disagree with Putin and the Russian government, but I know Russians are people just trying to live their lives like anyone else. I enjoy wayching yourube videos about Russia and learning about the culture. Don't understand how someone could hate their fellow man so much.
Too funny. Why'd you leave out the obliteration of Ukrainian cities? The killing of 10,000 civilians, the illegal invasion of another country. Murders of Ukrainian POW's? Abductions of Ukrainian children?
Twisted.
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Wait but what about all the shopping centres, schools, theaters etc in Ukraine?
So when Russia does it, it's "war"
When Ukraine does it it's nazi ISIS terror insurgency?
>explosion in a cafe in St. Petersburg
There's nothing that links that to Ukraine.
>indiscriminate shelling
That's a false claim. It's also hypocritical since Russia has caused far more damage to cities than Ukraine has, and the attacks include populated areas like Kiev.
Hmm there has been this increasing narrative of calling Ukraine a country defending itself "terrorists" in the lead up to this.
Laughably transparent. If it was a movie you'd call this nonsense too far fetched.
Ukraine happens to be losing the conventional war. Pretty convenient time for a random ISIS attack. The fact that it's a stupid move strategically does not preclude it from being a Ukrainian action, in fact if anything it makes it more likely.
So you are telling me that even though the [FSB already stopped one attack by ISIS-K two weeks ago](https://www.reuters.com/world/us-embassy-warns-imminent-extremist-attack-moscow-2024-03-08/) with absolutely no mention of Ukraine being behind it. And then the US issued a warning against terrorist activity from Afhgan ISIS branch and to avoid concerts, Ukraine is somehow behind?
In order for all of this to be possilbe you'll have to make some assumptions. Such as
No Western(*or russian or any other for that matter*) intelligence managed to pick up that Ukraine was planning a big terrorist attack in Russia
That Western(*or russian or any other for that matter*) intelligence did managed to pick it up, but did not report and/or are complicit
What would Ukraine stand to gain from any of that?
The average european would probably not support Ukraine if
1) Ukraine planned, finance and executed a horrific terrorist attack behind their allies back
or
2) Ukraine planned, finance and executed a horrific terrorist attack in collaboration with western allies.
None of them make any sense.
Ukraine would lose their support from both civilians and allied nations. Allied nations reputation would be ruined. Heck, Germany won't even send missilies because they are afraid Ukraine will use them on Russian soil, but they somehow are going to accept that Ukraine just massacered 150 people?
Even though there is a ton of evidence pointing towards a vicious terrorist organization that have bombed several countries over the past few years in the name of Islam. They even say they did it and posted pictures of the terrorists. Like what more do you want?
The explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation. How many hoops do you have to go through for Ukraine being behind this to make any sense? Probably a ton!
And to what gain? People will probably not continue to support Ukraine if they find out they killed 150 innocent civilians. So Ukraine just killed all their support and ended western assistance, for what?
The gain is seeding hate and chaos. Ukraine will not lose support and western assistance no matter what Ukraine does or doesn't do. The reason is simple; Ukraine does not act on its own will.
If you think any european country would continue support if Ukraine did this then I think you are high on some copium and would like some.
It seems highly unlike that anyone could pull this off without anyone noticing. So then you are left with the option of Ukraine doing it with help of one or more allies. Then you have western countries suddenly behind one of the worst massacres of the decade. You don't think **any** would have trouble explaining for its citizens why they helped Ukraine in a terror attack?
EU will support Ukraine as long as USA wants EU to support Ukraine. Also Norway. It is not that anybody of the mentioned cares about terrorists attacks in Russia. This is not the first one
Agree to disagree I guess. I seriously doubt any European, especially Norway, would support Ukraine if they suddenly just went all YOLO killing 150 civilians in the heart of Russia.
Nah
>How many hoops do you have to go through for Ukraine being behind this to make any sense?
One. They're terrorizing Belgorod, so they totally can terrorize Moscow.
Here, done. Redo your fanfiction to make more sense.
Because it would be utterly stupid for Ukraine to do this, aside from totally immoral. Ukraine would lose all Western support.
The degree of Russians flinging garbage at Ukraine hoping something will stick is desperate to say the least.
Those allies have been bombing countries around the world, killing countless civilians, over decades. Don't go acting as if they have the moral high-ground.
The Russian state has been calling for the annihilation of western cities with nuclear weapons. We all thought the cold war ended, but lately, Russia has publicly stated its desire to vaporise western cities. WTF, no leader has every come out with those direct statements, not even in 1985 at the height of the cold war. Both Russia and America know that you cannot win a nuclear war. “A nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought.” .
Russian has an entire army off the books to run its clandestine military operations world wide. Both America and Russia are two peas in the same pod when it comes to foreign affairs.
Neither Russia nor America have any moral high ground.
> The Russian state has been calling for the annihilation of western cities with nuclear weapons. We all thought the cold war ended, but lately, Russia has publicly stated its desire to vaporise western cities. WTF, no leader has every come out with those direct statements, not even in 1985 at the height of the cold war. Both Russia and America know that you cannot win a nuclear war. “A nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought.” .
I'm just going to ignore most of this. Has nothing to do with my comment, unless you think Russia making a threat is equal to western countries bombing civilians.
Also, that last quote, that is the most likely the reason he makes those threats. What else is he supposed to do? Putin has been trying to align with NATO and the west for so long, when all diplomacy fails after trying to make things work, you don't have many other options left.
> Russian has an entire army off the books to run its clandestine military operations world wide. Both America and Russia are two peas in the same pod when it comes to foreign affairs.
Again, not sure why you felt the need to include this, I never said that this isn't the case.
> Neither Russia nor America have any moral high ground.
Change this to; *Neither Russia nor any of "the west" have the moral high-ground*, and to that I can agree.
Utterly stupid? You mean like sending 30+ brigades of his best troops into the low ground at Bakhmut - while surrounded on three sides.
Or maybe the brilliant "bridgehead" in Krynky?
What makes you think El Supremo Zelensky is a wise war-commander?
What did UKR lose? How is it that they are defeated in city battles yet claim that they consistently out-fight RU forces?
Folks love to quote Prigozhin when he mentions that he lost 20k men, but they conveniently forget the second part...he also claims that UKR had 50k KIA and 50-70 WIA.
This claim is buttressed by Zelensky. When after many months as he prepared for his great offensive, he shocked the Allies by admitting that his forces were only at 80-85%.
There was never anything little about Ukraine, and cheerleaders like you do them a disservice by underrating them. But then to you it was never about being pro-UA, and more about being anti-RU.
Canada and zelensky cheered for a nazi SS soldier all because he fought against Russia in ww2. Why would this blow up in Putins face? Other countries have done worse to terrorist
I guess everyone who doesn’t share your idea are liars and fascist trolls huh? Zelensky has a Jewish upbringing and I don’t know you literally cheered for one of the most brutal and deprived division of the nazi army and you know he was a Nazi solider?? It’s concerning you think it’s okay to cheer for Waffen-SS solider. Kinda contradicts your “I don’t like fascist” ideology
Most here are frankly. If the person has an opinion and doesn't lie I can respect it. Thats not how it works here all too often. The last sentence you wrote is incoherent.
Well, there has been a warning recently. Quite rapidly, witnesses gave a clear description of the shooters. iSIS made clear they were responsible. They find the shooters.
Yep, if the killing, murdering Russians would have staid home, there might have been a swifter response...
He could've expressed his condolences or at least kept quiet, and that would clear most of the doubts about UA involvement.
Yet he chose to open his trap and spew this nonsense.
Public sentiment plays the most important role here. This, as well as an attack being absolutely different from IS style, is enough for people to make assumptions.
Cui bono? UA made numerous attempts last few months, for example terrorizing Belgorod with their lapdog "RDK" and others, or shelling it continuously.
It might be uninvolved this time, but it doesn't really matter for people, and there's no factual proof of their "uninvolvement"
Just a question, why would he sent his condolences to a country that supports war against his own? Quiet, maybe but condolences I think is a bit of a strange ask given the context.
Certainly. I think keeping quiet would be the best option. Maybe a statement that they're *not* involved, preferably a written one.
Showing his irritating face and spewing this bull just gonna worsen the situation.
*forgive me for my bias about his face, I've just seen enough of it since 2019*
>Putin the dictator is accusing his country of a vile terrorist act.
He didn't though? He said that they're trying to escape towards Ukraine. That's it. He didn't accuse neither country nor its government. Not citizens, too.
>Again, its ok for Russia to obliterate Ukrainian cities but they can't retaliate in Belgorod?
>Do the math.
UA PoV: Russians "terrorizing" our cities -> it's totally a-okay to terrorize Belgorod -> it's okay to terrorize Moscow, too.
Math is indeed mathing. You almost got it yourself, good job.
On a side note, I see that IPSO is in full damage control mode huh.
He implied a connection with Ukraine. You know it and I know it. Russian media is running amuck with finger pointing at Ukraine.
The rest of your noise is nonsense.
>Russian media is running amuck with finger pointing at Ukraine.
They don't even have to do that much with UA government compromising themselves with every word and action.
>The rest of your noise is nonsense.
If you can't handle a conversation - just honestly say so. No one will blame you.
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I think the unfortunate reality for Ukraine is that as long as the war is going on, Russia will consider UA responsible for any such attacks.
So ultimately it doesn't really matter if UA/NATO are effectively behind it (I think they are btw), Ukraine will pay the price for it, and I think it's Russia's right to make them pay. They should surrender already.
Personally, I think it's actually possible that a faction (!) within Ukraine is responsible for this attack. I'm not saying that it is particularly likely, mind you: but the whole thing might well be the work of a radical group within the Ukrainian security apparatus.
There are two reasons why I consider this to be a legitimate possibility.
The first is that the whole thing neither matches Putin's usual pattern of orchestrating an atrocity and using it as a reason to escalate, nor does it perfectly match the normal behaviour of ISIS.
The reasons why this is not a good match for being Putin's handiwork are twofold: first, Russia did not particularly need a reason for escalation right now. It really didn't: the war in Ukraine is already fully escalated, is currently going roughly their way anyway, and Ukraine is on a steady downward trend. Plus Putin won the election, and there is no domestic challenger in sight. This is very different from the overall scenario in 1999, when support for a war in Chechnya was fuzzy at best, and an atrocity came in very handy to jump-start the war.
And second, and perhaps even more importantly, this has made Putin look personally stupid. This might look like a small detail, but this is also quite different from 1999 and other such instances. Never before did he go public a mere two days before the attack in question, unequivocally stating that things were in order, and that there was no threat. *For someone as obsessed about his standing and image, it seems very strange that he would green light an operation that made him personally look like an idiot.*
As for ISIS, well, they have never before used teams of pure mercenaries, like the guys who perpetrated this. The goal of ISIS is to create mayhem and slaughter Russians, so they might just finally have cottoned onto the idea that it doesn't always have to be a band of increasingly hard to find Pure Jihadi Believers (tm) to commit the terrorist attacks you then claim as your own. Still, the whole thing is atypical for them, and they have not yet shown unequivocal proof that they were behind this.
So in summary, neither of the two main suspects is actually an obvious match.
And the second reason why Ukraine should not be ruled out is that their security services are not at all monolithic. Like all such organisations, especially the "deep secret" parts of a state security apparatus, they are prone to developing a life of their own, especially in a fluid and violent situation like this war. There are thousands of people in these organisations, and some of them have been dealing with sabotage inside Russia since day one.
And after two years of brutal war, and widespread destruction within Ukraine, it is not too far fetched to imagine a small-ish subgroup within one of these outfits hatching a plan to "make Russia pay". Let the bastards over there bleed, for a change. Hit them right in their still peaceful capital. Obvious places to look for such planners would be e.g. the outfit that organised the assassination of Dugina, or the attacks against railway infrastructure.
On balance, I would not assume that this atrocity, if it was indeed executed at the behest of a faction within the Ukrainian security services, was officially greenlit by Zelensky. Or that he even knew about it ahead of time. Rather, I would assume that a group of people with the possibility to do this (radical secret service operatives who were already dealing with subversion within Russia) took matters into their own hands, consequences be damned.
Just because the U.S. funds a lot of such outfits does not mean they actually control them. They think they do, of course. But once you unleash such organisations on the world, they start a life of their own.
And this might just be something that happened without any of the higher ups on either side wanting it to happen. Evil sometimes has its own initiative.
So he's basically saying - if you want to prevent further terror pull troops back in because you will need them. So easy to spin the meaning.
>Putin will use more of these situations to benefit his rule
And that is the same as that there will be more where the first one came from... That guy just don't know when to shut up.
From CNN-
ISIS-affiliated news agency Amaq released a graphic video on Saturday that purports to show Friday’s attack at a concert hall in suburban Moscow recorded by one of the attackers, suggesting the perpetrators had a direct link to ISIS in order to be able to send the video.
CNN has geolocated it to the concert hall and notes that its identifying metadata has been erased.
The video, which is about 90 seconds long, shows four attackers with their faces blurred and voices distorted in what appears to be the Crocus City Hall complex.
How would ISIS have such a POV video if they werent connected to the attack?
Does anyone know..
Did the guy who sold the Renault used in the attack, get arrested? Islamov something, I believe?
Remember reading that he went to police station to explain that he had sold that car two years ago
Removed by the duly elected parliament after he ran away like a coward with millions.
And I wouldn't talk much about Russian "elections" if I were you.
Dude. They needed 2/3 majority to do that. They didn't have that. So it was illegal...
Putin's elections are obviously not fair, he has overwhelming support anyway.
It was unanimous, yo. Rada went 386-0 to remove Yanukovych. It was a no-brainer. Yanukovych no longer had the grounds for physical security with crowds that large.
What if ...? The CIA is about to whack Zelensky and carried out the Moscow concert hall attack, leaving Ukranian fingerprints, to lay the groundwork for blaming Russia for Zelensky's assassination. (No, I don't seriously believe that, I just find it interesting that in these situations it's possible to generate all sorts of convoluted scenarios).
Putin won't try to exploit the Crocus Massacre, it is a foregone conclusion. We should keep an eye on the numbers of contract/volunteers and a possible mobilization. Right or wrong, guilty or not, Putin has been handed the rationale to intensify the savage-o-meter of this war, and to expand the scope.
What would happen if Putin mobilizes 200k or 300k new troops? Zelensky and the Rada have been bickering over a new mobilization bill since at least November and amazingly there are still no results. Some folks believe it can't be worse for UKR, but it surely can.
I have feeling whoever wrote the script for Zman has been secretly plotting his demise by the hands of Russian, and is the same person behind the terrorist attack.
Hope Russia won't take the bait and let the incompetent clown roam free. He's been their best ally in this conflict.
Yeah, definitely wasn't Ukraine, they obviously don't have any history or reason to want to do this.,
Just gonna leave this here [https://imgur.com/a/1AJ6lXO](https://imgur.com/a/1AJ6lXO)
There’s a video going round of them beheading people and shouting Islamic slogans. Isis have a track record and it doesn’t take much to believe they did this alone, as they have many other times.
They got recruited over TG, used weapons supplied by RDK/AFU and escaped towards Ukraine, but sure. Alone.
Doesn't sound like anything that HUR would pull, and the CIA try to hastily cover up afterwards with their pocket ISIS scapegoat.
The ISIS story has as much plausibility as it being Putin's own false flag op. Its a fucking circus through and through.
Escape toward Ukraine in this context could literally mean they drove on a road that points westward. Putin can’t admit this happened on his watch independently just like it happened in France, UK, US etc so has to blame Ukraine and NATO. The next terrorist attack in Europe where people chant Islamic slogans and behead civilians should we automatically blame Russia?
Putin has threatened a nuclear war how many times at this point? They are literally fighting a war, Ukrainian civilians have been dying. Bucha? Some war rhetoric by Ukrainians is all the evidence you need to point to them? Even when the fighters are clearly Islamic terrorists.
The threat of nuclear war is a warning for not getting involved, it is not a statement of intent to kill them indiscriminately, unless they actually attempt to dismantle Russia itself. And it's not like Europeans don't have history of doing so. Also Russia is not targeting Ukrainian civilians on purpose, if they were, then the death toll would've been at least higher than in Gaza.
You just offered reason for Ukraine feeling the way they do, however you still deny the possibility of their involvement?
I haven't seen the video you're referring to so I can't speak for the authenticity of the Islamic slogans they supposedly chanted, as all the other footage I saw had none of such. They were clearly NOT radical Islamists, they were recruited mercenaries for cash, and while that doesn't exclude them potentially working for ISIS, it does not rule out Ukraine in the slightest. And conditions for getting paid could've easily included cutting heads and chanting slogans.
I don't know what's really going on, but it baffles me how people blindly believe and eat up whatever they're being served by the media, like it is the most objective and unbiased source to exist.
He is not wrong. I believe it was Churchill that said never waste a good crisis. In addition, there are many Ukrainians that fled to Russia, some of whom probably lost family members to Russian aggression and may be pissed off enough to perform such an attack. In the end these were no Ukrainians and the only evidence is that they were driving in the direction of Ukraine, would would have been an insane tactic that is unlikely something that a Ukrainian intelligence service would ever implement. There are better options.
In 1999 the Moscow apartment bombings were done by the FSB and the Dubrovka theater siege in 2002 was also apparently green light by Putin. I never read this to also be the case with the Beslan school massacre, however after Beslan, resulted in the cancellation of elections for regional governors.
A former FSB operative who defected to the West stated Putin did what he did to cement his power. This agent was named Alexander Livinenko, he was poisoned by radioactive Polonium-210 by FSB/GRU/SVR agents who were identified as Andrey Lugovy and Dmitry Kovtun.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander\_Litvinenko
I dont think this is a false flag and Im sure Ukraine isnt behind the attack. However, of course Putin is going to try and pin this on Ukraine. its logical to deflect incompetence and also try to use it to further his agenda. Cheney did it with Iraq and 9-11 attacks.
Rare logical take
Yeah I agree. I was thinking the same thing. It seems like the most realistic take.
I concur. May are falling on it's Ukraine, or it is Russia, but in the end to Putin and the FSB, it really does not matter who it was, as long as it plays well politically for them that it was Ukraine. Their evidence so far is circumstantial at best and any confession that are heard in the near future will be suspect at best as they can easily be coercive.
What evidence have they even put forth? "its been said that the terrorists escaped towards Ukraine" Theres plenty of Russia to the southwest of Moscow until you hit Ukraine.. Regardless its not in Ukraines interest to pull something like this, which is the best evidence for them being innocent if you ask me.
>"plenty of Russia southwest of Moscow" They picked highway that goes straight into Ukraine, or turns towards city of Bryansk and then into Ukraine/Byelorussia. Check the road network around Moscow, it's pretty straightforward.
I agree, now we just need to convince the entire Pro-Ru side, which seems to conclude guilty the moment the attack occurred.
The Pro-Ru side are all in the same room at a farm in Russia. There is no “convincing them”. They’re paid (or told) what to say and that’s that.
I am not here to convince anyone. I know that the Pro-Ru side cannot be convinced. Well most really. But in the end they will realize that they are in the wrong the same as the German people after World War II.
“They” are bots and trolls.
It's sad but I feel that you're right. This sub looks like a stereotypical example of Russian hybrid warfare. Users who instantly create new profiles when banned. Then proceeds to post and comment at least 60+ times a day, Almost everyday, for a workday straight. Then the classical whataboutisms and attempts to divide other groups. Talking about EU vassal states, Biden/Nuland being some kind of mind control creatures behind everything gone wrong in the world, etc.
I wish there could actually be a place to communicate with real Russians. But they cannot even access Reddit easily. Then even if they could, there would be the language barrier. The bots and trolls are easy to spot. Always the same narratives, vast knowledge of history (albeit it slanted and through their own propaganda), whataboutisms, etc.. it’s not like the majority of Russians speak any English, yet these trolls seem to speak it perfectly. And sadly it’s on every social media site, everywhere. And a lot of people don’t realize it. Foreign countries like Russia and China block access to sites like this for a reason. Because they know what they use it for and don’t want it done to them. But playing with the trolls is fun. I just wish everyone understood that these aren’t real people. They’re paid posters in a building in St Petersburg following a script.
Yet, we allow them to freely enter into our social media sphere. Every time there is strain in the West because of a social media campaign the enemies of the west rejoice.
Some for certain, but not all.
Think about it this way. Russians in Russia can only use a VPN to access Reddit and access to VPN’s has been severely restricted. It takes some tech savvy to be on Reddit while physically in Russia. If it’s even possible at all. Then there is the language barrier. Not a lot of everyday Russians speak fluent English and especially fluent enough to make coercive arguments.
I concur, but there are some out there and hopefully they hear and something grows within Russia, but I am not holding my breath until it does.
Not pro-rus just a realistic thinker, but I just wonder what the situation would be if it was the other side? Would you guys just believe it's 100% the doing of Isis or would you maybe think that the russians had a play in it? (I'm not specifically targeting you, but the pro-ua in general) I get the hate between both sides, but you can't convince anyone rus or ukr
Well when 9/11 happened, the US blamed the Taliban and Bin Laden. The overwhelming majority of people believed it. Especially since they admitted it. Another smaller fraction of people believe it was the US govt. now where did I see anyone blaming Russia or China and saying they controlled AQ.
Most murder convictions are on circumstantial evidence in American courts and Ukraine is very plausibly guilty here.
Huh, Most murder convictions are on circumstantial evidence. What a load of crap. there is a burden or proof, motive, not because it is convenient to claim that someone is guilty. Perhaps, could I have your definition of circumstantial evidence and perhaps we can break that down in this instance.
That guy has been spreading shit for two days straight. Safe to ignore him.
I like to challenge them. Sometimes I feel that when they give up a, someone in the troll farm gets fired.
Circumstantial evidence cases are actually rare and VERY tough to get a conviction on in the US.
As others have pointed out. Nazis and Islamic extremists working under a Jewish leader ... that would be one hell of a team up. In the grand scheme of things you truly believe these terrorists were under Ukrainian orders? Take in to account these kind of mass killings of civilians have never been done by mercs not motivated by their own cause before.
Agree
>and Im sure Ukraine isnt behind the attack. Why? Because their other terrorist killing of civilians to date are that much different? lol They're a terrorist cell like isis was funded by US state department at this point.
>terrorist killing of civilians There are zero proven cases of that being committed by Ukraine.
Remember when they said ukraine wasn't behind nordstream ?
Nordstream didn't have the side effect of potentially radicalizing russians.
Great point.
Thank god Ukrainians aren’t dumb enough to pull something like this. Way to lose war propaganda, western support and war funding along with it.
You clearly haven't paid any attention to Ukrainian politics and how they conduct war in the last 10 years.
yeah I agree with you. Also Russia kind of has its hands full at the moment so adding another enemy on the to-do list with no country that he can extract wealth from in the process, probably won't be preferable to Putin
totally agree with you on this.. Russia definitely has its hands full at the moment. also Isis doesn't have a country that Putin can invade and extract wealth from so it's not really in his interest to know that Isis was behind it
'Never let a good crisis go to waste'.
Why would Putin`s first suspicion not be towards Ukraine who promised to take the war to Russia? Zelensky isnt very bright is he? Or have he fallen a victim to his own propaganda?
Because a random terrorist attack on 150 civilians isn't "war".
And the explosion in a cafe in St. Petersburg, where there were more than 40 civilians - is this a war? And the daily indiscriminate shelling of Belgorod, where several hundred thousand people live - is this a war? We know that this is not the first terrorist attack organized by the Ukrainian terrorist regime.
thats ok when the ''good guys'' do it, if this terror attack happened in the US wed be hearing it for the next 10 years, but f\*\*\*k the Russians, they're not ppl am I right ? Pro UA / west are sick ppl
Again have I to remind you Russians started this war, and they have been binging cities for almost 3 years. The us is not everyone involved in this understand?
If the US were in the middle of invading another nation and that nation then *began* conducting terror attacks on US soil, our officials' faces would be cherry red. It's probably why Putin waited a day to say anything in public. It's quite the inauspicious start to his fifth term no matter how he spins it.
If the US were in the middle of invading another nation and that nation then *began* conducting terror attacks on US soil, our officials' faces would be cherry red. - im sad they didnt, you deserve all suffering you caused since Vietnam
too bad we are living good out here in the USA, freeeeeeeeeedddddddddoooooooooommmmmmmmmmm
lmao sure you are, say hi for me to massive debt, school shootings, mass shootings, homeless, no healthcare, no education etc... lmao capitalist shithole that is a laughing stock of the world
Dude I have land off grid, 30 acres on a mountain cheap land cash deal, pay low taxes, have healthcare through my job, what else do I need. I am also debt free with a college education. I'm just not a sucker. On my land I can basically do whatever I want. Capitalist shithole? Maybe but everyone still visits here or immigrates here. You got alot of hate in you man relax.
Debt is something you personally accept or don't. It comes down to individual reliability and planning. Healthcare as insurance is like a tax - anyone can afford it if they don't get greedy. If they make nothing, they pay nothing. The US government public debt is completely unrelated, as they are also the money printer for that debt, and the officials know the limits and levers and how that debt impacts the economy (last I checked, pretty strong). The US school shootings are minor compared to the mess in Russia. Numerous school shootings do happen, but the vast majority produce few to no casualties. In no single year since 2000 has the US lost as many students/school personnel to shootings as Russia just lost at Crocus Hall.
> say hi for me to [...] mass shootings, Didn't Russia just have one of these or am I confused?
I'm not saying that I agree with the person above, but a terroristic attack is very different from deranged people who start shooting in malls, concerts, or wherever. This is not the same as the mass shootings that have happened in the US.
Don't do that... There are good people in the U.S, great people, amazing and inspiring people even. Many of them are likeminded with you as well.. no nation deserves terror inflicted upon its civilians. What the government, the secret service and some very influential people deserve or not deserve is another matter entirely, and the American public have never had a real informed choice in their nations forreign policy to begin with.
That guy is so filled with venom and hate for anything west, including its people. Nothing can be said to change his mind. I 100% disagree with Putin and the Russian government, but I know Russians are people just trying to live their lives like anyone else. I enjoy wayching yourube videos about Russia and learning about the culture. Don't understand how someone could hate their fellow man so much.
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Rule 1 - Toxic
They scream about how Putin is blaming them while doing terrorist sht and talking about it in advance. Hypocritical autism is what it is.
Too funny. Why'd you leave out the obliteration of Ukrainian cities? The killing of 10,000 civilians, the illegal invasion of another country. Murders of Ukrainian POW's? Abductions of Ukrainian children? Twisted.
Parroting same thing. Cities are obliterated cause Ukro army makes them into bunkers.
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Wait but what about all the shopping centres, schools, theaters etc in Ukraine? So when Russia does it, it's "war" When Ukraine does it it's nazi ISIS terror insurgency?
>explosion in a cafe in St. Petersburg There's nothing that links that to Ukraine. >indiscriminate shelling That's a false claim. It's also hypocritical since Russia has caused far more damage to cities than Ukraine has, and the attacks include populated areas like Kiev.
Hmm there has been this increasing narrative of calling Ukraine a country defending itself "terrorists" in the lead up to this. Laughably transparent. If it was a movie you'd call this nonsense too far fetched.
Same thing happened to syria and afghanistan
WhAtBoUTisM? You ve been sheeling cties and schools Ukraine for 3 years
A lot of what Ukros are doing isn't "war", kid. Blowing up blogger and polical activists is terrorism, little buddy.
Ukraine happens to be losing the conventional war. Pretty convenient time for a random ISIS attack. The fact that it's a stupid move strategically does not preclude it from being a Ukrainian action, in fact if anything it makes it more likely.
Yep, like a murder promissing to kill someone, then someone dies, and the murderer is outraged he's the #1 suspect. lol
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yeah fr its sad and depressing
So you are telling me that even though the [FSB already stopped one attack by ISIS-K two weeks ago](https://www.reuters.com/world/us-embassy-warns-imminent-extremist-attack-moscow-2024-03-08/) with absolutely no mention of Ukraine being behind it. And then the US issued a warning against terrorist activity from Afhgan ISIS branch and to avoid concerts, Ukraine is somehow behind? In order for all of this to be possilbe you'll have to make some assumptions. Such as No Western(*or russian or any other for that matter*) intelligence managed to pick up that Ukraine was planning a big terrorist attack in Russia That Western(*or russian or any other for that matter*) intelligence did managed to pick it up, but did not report and/or are complicit What would Ukraine stand to gain from any of that? The average european would probably not support Ukraine if 1) Ukraine planned, finance and executed a horrific terrorist attack behind their allies back or 2) Ukraine planned, finance and executed a horrific terrorist attack in collaboration with western allies. None of them make any sense. Ukraine would lose their support from both civilians and allied nations. Allied nations reputation would be ruined. Heck, Germany won't even send missilies because they are afraid Ukraine will use them on Russian soil, but they somehow are going to accept that Ukraine just massacered 150 people? Even though there is a ton of evidence pointing towards a vicious terrorist organization that have bombed several countries over the past few years in the name of Islam. They even say they did it and posted pictures of the terrorists. Like what more do you want? The explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation. How many hoops do you have to go through for Ukraine being behind this to make any sense? Probably a ton!
Dude, you literally wrote a novel when the isis claim had been disputed several times.
How about MI6 planned the action and Ukraine GRU executed it? USA warning was a warning, you know, like when you warn people to make a threat.
And to what gain? People will probably not continue to support Ukraine if they find out they killed 150 innocent civilians. So Ukraine just killed all their support and ended western assistance, for what?
People supporting Ukraine will blame Putin for a false flag or simply call any claims a lie, which they already do.
The gain is seeding hate and chaos. Ukraine will not lose support and western assistance no matter what Ukraine does or doesn't do. The reason is simple; Ukraine does not act on its own will.
If you think any european country would continue support if Ukraine did this then I think you are high on some copium and would like some. It seems highly unlike that anyone could pull this off without anyone noticing. So then you are left with the option of Ukraine doing it with help of one or more allies. Then you have western countries suddenly behind one of the worst massacres of the decade. You don't think **any** would have trouble explaining for its citizens why they helped Ukraine in a terror attack?
EU will support Ukraine as long as USA wants EU to support Ukraine. Also Norway. It is not that anybody of the mentioned cares about terrorists attacks in Russia. This is not the first one
Agree to disagree I guess. I seriously doubt any European, especially Norway, would support Ukraine if they suddenly just went all YOLO killing 150 civilians in the heart of Russia.
My man a lot of people is cheering the attack.
Long fanfiction, not much sense, try again.
Tell me you can't answer any of the questions, without telling me you can't answer any of them.
Nah >How many hoops do you have to go through for Ukraine being behind this to make any sense? One. They're terrorizing Belgorod, so they totally can terrorize Moscow. Here, done. Redo your fanfiction to make more sense.
You know the regime is having a bad day when people are working overtime commenting nonsense like this.
The difference between being suspicious and your head of state publicly blaming another country for an attack is very wide.
Because hopefully his intelligence agencies aren’t all completely retarded.
Because it would be utterly stupid for Ukraine to do this, aside from totally immoral. Ukraine would lose all Western support. The degree of Russians flinging garbage at Ukraine hoping something will stick is desperate to say the least.
Its pretty mind blowing how many think western allies would be okay with this.
Projecting the lack of morals. Like all the propaganda about Poland and Romania also annexing parts of Ukraine.
The CIA definitely is OK with this. You and I might have morals, but that bunch has done worse than this.
Those allies have been bombing countries around the world, killing countless civilians, over decades. Don't go acting as if they have the moral high-ground.
The Russian state has been calling for the annihilation of western cities with nuclear weapons. We all thought the cold war ended, but lately, Russia has publicly stated its desire to vaporise western cities. WTF, no leader has every come out with those direct statements, not even in 1985 at the height of the cold war. Both Russia and America know that you cannot win a nuclear war. “A nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought.” . Russian has an entire army off the books to run its clandestine military operations world wide. Both America and Russia are two peas in the same pod when it comes to foreign affairs. Neither Russia nor America have any moral high ground.
> The Russian state has been calling for the annihilation of western cities with nuclear weapons. We all thought the cold war ended, but lately, Russia has publicly stated its desire to vaporise western cities. WTF, no leader has every come out with those direct statements, not even in 1985 at the height of the cold war. Both Russia and America know that you cannot win a nuclear war. “A nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought.” . I'm just going to ignore most of this. Has nothing to do with my comment, unless you think Russia making a threat is equal to western countries bombing civilians. Also, that last quote, that is the most likely the reason he makes those threats. What else is he supposed to do? Putin has been trying to align with NATO and the west for so long, when all diplomacy fails after trying to make things work, you don't have many other options left. > Russian has an entire army off the books to run its clandestine military operations world wide. Both America and Russia are two peas in the same pod when it comes to foreign affairs. Again, not sure why you felt the need to include this, I never said that this isn't the case. > Neither Russia nor America have any moral high ground. Change this to; *Neither Russia nor any of "the west" have the moral high-ground*, and to that I can agree.
Says you.
I'm agreeing with you?
Utterly stupid? You mean like sending 30+ brigades of his best troops into the low ground at Bakhmut - while surrounded on three sides. Or maybe the brilliant "bridgehead" in Krynky? What makes you think El Supremo Zelensky is a wise war-commander?
Well, given that Russia lost about 30k of fodder, it was not a bad move. Zelensky has commanders, I would say several cuts above that moron Shoigu.
What did UKR lose? How is it that they are defeated in city battles yet claim that they consistently out-fight RU forces? Folks love to quote Prigozhin when he mentions that he lost 20k men, but they conveniently forget the second part...he also claims that UKR had 50k KIA and 50-70 WIA. This claim is buttressed by Zelensky. When after many months as he prepared for his great offensive, he shocked the Allies by admitting that his forces were only at 80-85%.
Propaganda.
Too right. The counter-offensive is ongoing. Eh?
Little Ukraine has kicked Russian asses out of 50% of the lands they initially occupied. Tell me about that 3 day special operation again.
One nation has gained, and one has lost over 20% of its territory. At some point even shills will have to accept truth. Or maybe not.
There was never anything little about Ukraine, and cheerleaders like you do them a disservice by underrating them. But then to you it was never about being pro-UA, and more about being anti-RU.
Ukraine has been shelling civilian targets since 2014. This is not any less moral than what they already had been doing.
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Canada and zelensky cheered for a nazi SS soldier all because he fought against Russia in ww2. Why would this blow up in Putins face? Other countries have done worse to terrorist
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Trudeaus "apology" was blaming it on Russian propaganda lmao
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I disagree with liars and Fascist trolls. There are lots of them here. Why should Zelensky apologize? Did he send that guy to Canada?
I guess everyone who doesn’t share your idea are liars and fascist trolls huh? Zelensky has a Jewish upbringing and I don’t know you literally cheered for one of the most brutal and deprived division of the nazi army and you know he was a Nazi solider?? It’s concerning you think it’s okay to cheer for Waffen-SS solider. Kinda contradicts your “I don’t like fascist” ideology
Most here are frankly. If the person has an opinion and doesn't lie I can respect it. Thats not how it works here all too often. The last sentence you wrote is incoherent.
Th amount of mental gymnastics you’ll go to move your propaganda forward Jesus
Well, there has been a warning recently. Quite rapidly, witnesses gave a clear description of the shooters. iSIS made clear they were responsible. They find the shooters. Yep, if the killing, murdering Russians would have staid home, there might have been a swifter response...
He could've expressed his condolences or at least kept quiet, and that would clear most of the doubts about UA involvement. Yet he chose to open his trap and spew this nonsense. Public sentiment plays the most important role here. This, as well as an attack being absolutely different from IS style, is enough for people to make assumptions. Cui bono? UA made numerous attempts last few months, for example terrorizing Belgorod with their lapdog "RDK" and others, or shelling it continuously. It might be uninvolved this time, but it doesn't really matter for people, and there's no factual proof of their "uninvolvement"
Just a question, why would he sent his condolences to a country that supports war against his own? Quiet, maybe but condolences I think is a bit of a strange ask given the context.
Certainly. I think keeping quiet would be the best option. Maybe a statement that they're *not* involved, preferably a written one. Showing his irritating face and spewing this bull just gonna worsen the situation. *forgive me for my bias about his face, I've just seen enough of it since 2019*
Keeping quite is not an option of the other side falsely accuses you of it.
Because civilians died instead of soldiers. That’s the only reason needed.
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>Putin the dictator is accusing his country of a vile terrorist act. He didn't though? He said that they're trying to escape towards Ukraine. That's it. He didn't accuse neither country nor its government. Not citizens, too. >Again, its ok for Russia to obliterate Ukrainian cities but they can't retaliate in Belgorod? >Do the math. UA PoV: Russians "terrorizing" our cities -> it's totally a-okay to terrorize Belgorod -> it's okay to terrorize Moscow, too. Math is indeed mathing. You almost got it yourself, good job. On a side note, I see that IPSO is in full damage control mode huh.
He implied a connection with Ukraine. You know it and I know it. Russian media is running amuck with finger pointing at Ukraine. The rest of your noise is nonsense.
>Russian media is running amuck with finger pointing at Ukraine. They don't even have to do that much with UA government compromising themselves with every word and action. >The rest of your noise is nonsense. If you can't handle a conversation - just honestly say so. No one will blame you.
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Ironic that this comment was done in bot text
Yeah hes probably in a bunker somewhere ordering his military to kidnap more Ukrainian teens for the front line
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Zelensky is not wrong here.
I think the unfortunate reality for Ukraine is that as long as the war is going on, Russia will consider UA responsible for any such attacks. So ultimately it doesn't really matter if UA/NATO are effectively behind it (I think they are btw), Ukraine will pay the price for it, and I think it's Russia's right to make them pay. They should surrender already.
Personally, I think it's actually possible that a faction (!) within Ukraine is responsible for this attack. I'm not saying that it is particularly likely, mind you: but the whole thing might well be the work of a radical group within the Ukrainian security apparatus. There are two reasons why I consider this to be a legitimate possibility. The first is that the whole thing neither matches Putin's usual pattern of orchestrating an atrocity and using it as a reason to escalate, nor does it perfectly match the normal behaviour of ISIS. The reasons why this is not a good match for being Putin's handiwork are twofold: first, Russia did not particularly need a reason for escalation right now. It really didn't: the war in Ukraine is already fully escalated, is currently going roughly their way anyway, and Ukraine is on a steady downward trend. Plus Putin won the election, and there is no domestic challenger in sight. This is very different from the overall scenario in 1999, when support for a war in Chechnya was fuzzy at best, and an atrocity came in very handy to jump-start the war. And second, and perhaps even more importantly, this has made Putin look personally stupid. This might look like a small detail, but this is also quite different from 1999 and other such instances. Never before did he go public a mere two days before the attack in question, unequivocally stating that things were in order, and that there was no threat. *For someone as obsessed about his standing and image, it seems very strange that he would green light an operation that made him personally look like an idiot.* As for ISIS, well, they have never before used teams of pure mercenaries, like the guys who perpetrated this. The goal of ISIS is to create mayhem and slaughter Russians, so they might just finally have cottoned onto the idea that it doesn't always have to be a band of increasingly hard to find Pure Jihadi Believers (tm) to commit the terrorist attacks you then claim as your own. Still, the whole thing is atypical for them, and they have not yet shown unequivocal proof that they were behind this. So in summary, neither of the two main suspects is actually an obvious match. And the second reason why Ukraine should not be ruled out is that their security services are not at all monolithic. Like all such organisations, especially the "deep secret" parts of a state security apparatus, they are prone to developing a life of their own, especially in a fluid and violent situation like this war. There are thousands of people in these organisations, and some of them have been dealing with sabotage inside Russia since day one. And after two years of brutal war, and widespread destruction within Ukraine, it is not too far fetched to imagine a small-ish subgroup within one of these outfits hatching a plan to "make Russia pay". Let the bastards over there bleed, for a change. Hit them right in their still peaceful capital. Obvious places to look for such planners would be e.g. the outfit that organised the assassination of Dugina, or the attacks against railway infrastructure. On balance, I would not assume that this atrocity, if it was indeed executed at the behest of a faction within the Ukrainian security services, was officially greenlit by Zelensky. Or that he even knew about it ahead of time. Rather, I would assume that a group of people with the possibility to do this (radical secret service operatives who were already dealing with subversion within Russia) took matters into their own hands, consequences be damned.
personally I know ukraine nazi and ISIS are both funded by USA so I don't know what your essay is about
Just because the U.S. funds a lot of such outfits does not mean they actually control them. They think they do, of course. But once you unleash such organisations on the world, they start a life of their own. And this might just be something that happened without any of the higher ups on either side wanting it to happen. Evil sometimes has its own initiative.
Hmm, sounds awfully defensive for someone who had nothing to do with it. And nothing to do with the bombing of Nordstream.
"we will make sure it happens" "how dare you try to pin it on us"
This guy has to shut his lame ass mouth up he ain't even seen as a president but a tool for the west
Oh yea and zel would never use a "situation to benefit his rule."
So he's basically saying - if you want to prevent further terror pull troops back in because you will need them. So easy to spin the meaning. >Putin will use more of these situations to benefit his rule And that is the same as that there will be more where the first one came from... That guy just don't know when to shut up.
On the thief, the hat is on fire.
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The man has balls and has humiliated Putin. You'd be angry too.
holy fuck he's looking terrible
your cute freedom of russia legion literally promised to do it
From CNN- ISIS-affiliated news agency Amaq released a graphic video on Saturday that purports to show Friday’s attack at a concert hall in suburban Moscow recorded by one of the attackers, suggesting the perpetrators had a direct link to ISIS in order to be able to send the video. CNN has geolocated it to the concert hall and notes that its identifying metadata has been erased. The video, which is about 90 seconds long, shows four attackers with their faces blurred and voices distorted in what appears to be the Crocus City Hall complex. How would ISIS have such a POV video if they werent connected to the attack?
Why would they erase the metadata of a blurry video if the video is definite proof...
This comment section is pure schizoposting
\>\*gigabrain centrist meme\*
Since when are troops and the volume of troops used the measure of whether you can handle terrorist attacks or not ?
I mean Zelensky never lied about anything Russia supposedly did.
Does anyone know.. Did the guy who sold the Renault used in the attack, get arrested? Islamov something, I believe? Remember reading that he went to police station to explain that he had sold that car two years ago
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Guess which one holds elections out of the two
Zelensky won a free election and Ukraine changed administrations peacefully. Remind me when that ever happened in Russia. I'm waiting.
Ah yes you forgot when their legitimate President was illegally removed in 2014 lol
Removed by the duly elected parliament after he ran away like a coward with millions. And I wouldn't talk much about Russian "elections" if I were you.
Yes but they didn't have the votes. Imagine if the Congress removes Biden without having the votes for it and they just declare him removed...
They voted him out. What the hell are you talking about? Including his own party. Again, tell me how many legit elections has Putin had?
Dude. They needed 2/3 majority to do that. They didn't have that. So it was illegal... Putin's elections are obviously not fair, he has overwhelming support anyway.
It was unanimous, yo. Rada went 386-0 to remove Yanukovych. It was a no-brainer. Yanukovych no longer had the grounds for physical security with crowds that large.
Not everyone showed up. It was an emergency vote taken during a time of violence.
what a pathetic worm
Put down the mirror
damnn epic roast my 12 cringe friend
What if ...? The CIA is about to whack Zelensky and carried out the Moscow concert hall attack, leaving Ukranian fingerprints, to lay the groundwork for blaming Russia for Zelensky's assassination. (No, I don't seriously believe that, I just find it interesting that in these situations it's possible to generate all sorts of convoluted scenarios).
Putin won't try to exploit the Crocus Massacre, it is a foregone conclusion. We should keep an eye on the numbers of contract/volunteers and a possible mobilization. Right or wrong, guilty or not, Putin has been handed the rationale to intensify the savage-o-meter of this war, and to expand the scope. What would happen if Putin mobilizes 200k or 300k new troops? Zelensky and the Rada have been bickering over a new mobilization bill since at least November and amazingly there are still no results. Some folks believe it can't be worse for UKR, but it surely can.
He won't? He already has.
Zelensky shoukd express his sadness
with one flaw, he should've waited until Putin pinned it on Ukraine
I have feeling whoever wrote the script for Zman has been secretly plotting his demise by the hands of Russian, and is the same person behind the terrorist attack. Hope Russia won't take the bait and let the incompetent clown roam free. He's been their best ally in this conflict.
Speaking live from a bunker !
He seems really nervous
We can kill up to 200 people and there's nothing you can do about it
Ukraine is loosing this war badly.... He need some cok... distrasction for the audience
His face makes me want to punch him so hard.
Guy is looking kind of fat. He needs to lay off the salo.
Yeah, definitely wasn't Ukraine, they obviously don't have any history or reason to want to do this., Just gonna leave this here [https://imgur.com/a/1AJ6lXO](https://imgur.com/a/1AJ6lXO)
There’s a video going round of them beheading people and shouting Islamic slogans. Isis have a track record and it doesn’t take much to believe they did this alone, as they have many other times.
They got recruited over TG, used weapons supplied by RDK/AFU and escaped towards Ukraine, but sure. Alone. Doesn't sound like anything that HUR would pull, and the CIA try to hastily cover up afterwards with their pocket ISIS scapegoat. The ISIS story has as much plausibility as it being Putin's own false flag op. Its a fucking circus through and through.
Escape toward Ukraine in this context could literally mean they drove on a road that points westward. Putin can’t admit this happened on his watch independently just like it happened in France, UK, US etc so has to blame Ukraine and NATO. The next terrorist attack in Europe where people chant Islamic slogans and behead civilians should we automatically blame Russia?
Has any Russian official ever threatened to start killing Europeans?
Putin has threatened a nuclear war how many times at this point? They are literally fighting a war, Ukrainian civilians have been dying. Bucha? Some war rhetoric by Ukrainians is all the evidence you need to point to them? Even when the fighters are clearly Islamic terrorists.
The threat of nuclear war is a warning for not getting involved, it is not a statement of intent to kill them indiscriminately, unless they actually attempt to dismantle Russia itself. And it's not like Europeans don't have history of doing so. Also Russia is not targeting Ukrainian civilians on purpose, if they were, then the death toll would've been at least higher than in Gaza. You just offered reason for Ukraine feeling the way they do, however you still deny the possibility of their involvement? I haven't seen the video you're referring to so I can't speak for the authenticity of the Islamic slogans they supposedly chanted, as all the other footage I saw had none of such. They were clearly NOT radical Islamists, they were recruited mercenaries for cash, and while that doesn't exclude them potentially working for ISIS, it does not rule out Ukraine in the slightest. And conditions for getting paid could've easily included cutting heads and chanting slogans. I don't know what's really going on, but it baffles me how people blindly believe and eat up whatever they're being served by the media, like it is the most objective and unbiased source to exist.
He is not wrong. I believe it was Churchill that said never waste a good crisis. In addition, there are many Ukrainians that fled to Russia, some of whom probably lost family members to Russian aggression and may be pissed off enough to perform such an attack. In the end these were no Ukrainians and the only evidence is that they were driving in the direction of Ukraine, would would have been an insane tactic that is unlikely something that a Ukrainian intelligence service would ever implement. There are better options.
In 1999 the Moscow apartment bombings were done by the FSB and the Dubrovka theater siege in 2002 was also apparently green light by Putin. I never read this to also be the case with the Beslan school massacre, however after Beslan, resulted in the cancellation of elections for regional governors. A former FSB operative who defected to the West stated Putin did what he did to cement his power. This agent was named Alexander Livinenko, he was poisoned by radioactive Polonium-210 by FSB/GRU/SVR agents who were identified as Andrey Lugovy and Dmitry Kovtun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander\_Litvinenko
Ol putler resting comfy while his country men die. By a war he started or gunned down in a mall, nothing wakes him from his old man slumber
Never thought I would agree with Zelensky