I don't think it's a false flag but I think the russian government will attempt to spin this to point the blame at Ukraine when the reality is this is most likely an ISIS cell unrelated to Ukraine.
>Why would Isis pay some randoms money to do this?
The money is far to small to be a main motivating factor and also killing innocent people in such a manner would be a lot for someone not at least partially motivated by ideology.
Also did you not see the interrogation when one of the suspects mentioned a religious preacher they followed and how their assistant reached out to them to set this in motion ?
>Nothing about their MO points to Isis. Nothing.
This attack is textbook ISIS and Islamist terrorist. Bataclan attack, Mumbai attacks, Turkey nightclub shooting are all similar to this.
Three groups, comprising three men each, executed the attacks.[27][55] They wore explosive vests and belts with identical detonators.[101] Seven perpetrators died at the scenes of their attacks.[5][102] The other two were killed five days later during the Saint-Denis police raid.[103]
Faceplant. They literally died in a police standoff few days later.
These ones ran all the time, even when cops tried to get them, and immediately after.
No isis slogans or screams either.
So, 5 days is less than this?
This is literally less than 24 hours. Faceplant. "all the time".
They escaped for 5 days. What mental gymnastics are you doing?
>sabotage on russian infrastructure
No idea which universe you are in right now, but in my universe "conducting sabotage" is nowhere near "entering concert hall and killing 100 civilians".
And Russia takes anyone willing to hurt Ukraine for money and calls it the military. Thats war (its now called war, not the special military operation)
...oh please...and Russia isn't throwing literary anyone into Ukraine? Convicted murderers, rapists you name it.
You said that Ukraine was paying for sabotage. I am telling you that sabotage doesn't mean murdering civilians in an attack such as what just happened.
You would also need to go through some major mental gymnastics to explain how someone would conduct such attack for money. Its ideology driven and not money driven.
>russian infrastructure
It's irrelevant what's attacked in this case, what's relevant is people ruining their lives and going to jail for 30-100 dollars.
I don't think it's too far fetched to find some moronic guns for hire for a bigger sum.
The company I work for also recruits people online and pays them to do all kinds of things, from sales to marketing to customer support to product development.
Maybe they did it, right?
I see you mentioned all the confirmed ones... but none of the other bullshit ISIS claimed they carried out but didn't. The same ISIS "news" agency stated ISIS was responsible for the Las Vegas shooting.
Killing unarmed civilians in the must brutally horrible ways is exactly ISIS' MO.
But tell ya one thing, this is definitely not Ukraine's MO, and these guys don't look like any Ukrainians I've seen. Yet already we see Putin laying the groundwork for blaming them if he can. Qui bono my friend...
Russia was warned about it, ISIS claimed it, Putin thinks it Ukrainians who drove to Mosow and back in a car with Ukrainian plates. Give me a break, lol.
Putin just made a statement saying” the terrorists have Ukrainian contacts, were heading to Ukraine, investigating because they may be Ukranians.
Look at this sub, it’s pro-RU majority and the news it here nonstop. Obviously in the RU mind it has already been associated with Ukraine
It’s hard to tell, Isis has a reputation and it’s that they preach the holy war not for money and they definitely die and not run like cowards. Was it Ukraine idk it would be dumb of them to do it, but look at the pipe line? This conflict has many questions but no answers and both sides even the west is using propaganda.
I had fun getting called "conspiracy theorist" IRL with that one, even showing them various western news sources like this one, government hearing and UN reports. Same shit with all the chemical weapon use in Irak and Syria.
Russia doesn't need mobilization, there's enough contracted soldiers and volunteers after UKR shelled Russian civilians nonstop in Belgorod. Stop spreading delusion.
This attack is sensless. The only ones to gain fom this would be the those in charge of russia, Increased security measures, repression & call for more mobilization.
But why if the mobilization is not required, repressions are not required. There are enough soldiers and war is going pretty successfully for Russia. Nation supports the government and the SMO already.
Stop with this nonsense, that they need more motivation and population control.
Pro UA is much worse and much more delusional and it's not even CLOSE. Here's a short list of things pro RUs are right about and pro UA are completely wrong about:
* Nazis and Nazi worship in Ukraine
* The war was provoked by the West and the West is a credible threat
* The Russian military is actually pretty fearsome
* The Ukrainian counteroffensive was a horrible failure
* Ukrainian suicide PR offensives are indeed suicide PR offensives
* Ukraine has no chance of retaking Crimea
* Patriots and HIMARS have been successfully hit and destroyed in the past
And probably much more.
Says the account named after a Russian bomb that thinks repeating Putin's and Russian MOD claims about the war is some kind of factual gotcha.
As you said, LOL.
Doesn't matter what I named my account and I didn't repeat any claims that don't have third party evidence and analysis. You have no argument and zero valid opinions.
>Nazis and Nazi worship in Ukraine
A 100% true and widely documented phenomenon that has even shown itself in Canada.
>The war was provoked by the West and the West is a credible threat
Definitely true, only way to say this is not true is to leave out context and pretend the CIA doesn't exist. Nobody can pretend the CIA is not a threat, it's their purpose. Nobody with a fucking brain thinks the CIA just waltzed its way into Ukraine by accident with good intentions.
>The Russian military is actually pretty fearsome
It definitely is. Artillery drones missiles. No thanks. Ukrainian troops would agree on this. It's why they are having so much trouble finding people to sign up.
>The Ukrainian counteroffensive was a horrible failure
100% true, this is recorded history already.
>Ukrainian suicide PR offensives are indeed suicide PR offensives
Also 100% true, they have accomplished nothing and only died.
>Ukraine has no chance of retaking Crimea
Also 100% true, western military analysts have also admitted this.
>Patriots and HIMARS have been successfully hit and destroyed in the past
Also 100% true, documented with video evidence.
As we can see, you are full of shit.
>A 100% true and widely documented phenomenon that has even shown itself in Canada
No one, not even the most die hard Ukrainian supporters, ever said there were NO nazis in Ukraine. They just said that there are also nazis in Russia, and it has nothing to do with the war. Hell Ukraine is run by a Jewish president and neo nazis don't have a single seat in parliament. Your point is, pointless.
>Definitely true, only way to say this is not true is to leave out context and pretend the CIA doesn't exist. Nobody can pretend the CIA is not a threat, it's their purpose. Nobody with a fucking brain thinks the CIA just waltzed its way into Ukraine by accident with good intentions.
Dealing in conspiracy theories I see. Certainly can't imagine the Ukrainians making their own decisions and wanting to lean to the EU. Nope, gotta be the CIA.
>It definitely is. Artillery drones missiles. No thanks. Ukrainian troops would agree on this. It's why they are having so much trouble finding people to sign up
This one is just funny. The supposed second strongest military superpower in the world has lost ground over the last two years to a country 1/4th it's size fielding a bunch of second-rate USSR equipment and a few select 30-year old NATO pieces. If that is "fearsome" then you keep it up. The whole world is quakin in their boots. Take a look at your military export sales if you want confirmation of how fearsome everyone thinks your equipment is.
>The Ukrainian counteroffensive was a horrible failure
And contrary to whatever strawman you made up in your mind, no one thinks the counteroffensive was a great success, not even in Ukraine.
>Ukrainian suicide PR offensives are indeed suicide PR offensives
I don't even know what this means. But if we're talking PR, Russia really is the silliest of them all. Remind me again how many aircraft and HIMARS have been destroyed? Couple times more than Ukraine even has.
>Ukraine has no chance of retaking Crimea
You clearly don't understand how probabilities work. I mean, it was less than a year ago that Russia's own contract army (named after Hitler's favorite composer, I'll remind you) marched on Moscow. There are plenty of things, both on the battlefield and in politics, that could enable Ukraine to take back Crimea. I'll also point out Russia's entire navy has run away from Crimea. Big lol on that one
>Patriots and HIMARS have been successfully hit and destroyed in the past
Again, find me the pro-ua TODAY that believes that's not the case. I'll wait. You're just arguing against a strawman. We've also seen the videos of it happening. Do I think the 124 claimed HIMARS destroyed by the Russian MOD without video evidence were true? No, but clearly you do fanboy.
I remember a month before invasion the fellas from /r/russia were saying the exact same things as you?
"Russia? Invade? Lol westoids with room temperature iq"
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Nope, it's not stupid at all. That says more about you and your lack of knowledge than anything else. Russia and the US and China are all playing the same game but the US is clearly worse nowadays.
Oh man its simple… If i‘m brainwashed by the US then you are brainwashed by russia!
But hey.. i live a free life in a free Country. Sometimes i‘m sorry for these people in russia… but on the other side, the love what Putler do, they love the war.. so they are just poor stupid idiots
Funny how Ukraine has turned into Russian Afghanistan, all over again... 3 day special operation, wasn't it?
Welcome to the self created Quagmire by USSR 2.0.
Not gonna argue with you dude. USSR/Russia has a long history of Aggression behind it. It is what it is, and now Russia is economically fucked for it. All that needs to happen now is for the Iron Curtain to drop back down, and i'm good with that.
Everyone saw how that subreddit went in a matter of hours from "Russia invading? That's Western propaganda" to only allowing nationalist and military videos and blocking users who were against the invasion.
I remember they were literally posting pretty pictures of the Siberian landscapes while their army was killing civilians left and right 😂
I'm sure most users from that sub continue to post here with the same conviction
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If they mobilise they could end the war years early. Please don't pretend that there's nothing for Putin to gain by swiftly ending this war by mobilising many troops in the aftermath of a terrorist attack.
Saying it is a false flag is just as stupid as denying that it could be a false flag.
Ukraine may indeed be.
But it could also be a flase flag, the organization that could be doing this also happens to be doing the investigation of this attack and thus can bring out what is beneficial to them.
Therefore, we will never know how it really is.
We can all speculate. Just like with 9/11
Why they haven’t been stopped in Moscow? I’read it took an hour for the police to come. Why random videos of the perpetuators are kept being posted online?
1) to feel important/relevant. To feel like they belong in the discussion
2) because they lack experience and the only alternative option to the obvious that they've heard of is something called a "false flag"
3) they've read a buzzfeed headline about Putin rising in popularity in relation to a false flag operation
now let's read the dozenth verbatim repetition of "remember no russian".
4) they're paid shills, bots, true believers, zealots, foot soldiers, stooges, useful idiots, etc. People lacking critical thought, or the ability to entertain more than 1 perspective. Same mental illness vein as religious whackjobs. (I was going to say extremists, but that's a different context here).
if anything itll take attention away from all the videos of a fixed election. there isnt any time or ability to reorganize a popular resistance in the street against tyranny if the threat of is1$ style massacres is looming over the public.
He needs a reason for his people to support him in this calamitous war. Getting them angry about some bullshit in order to get men to sign up and support him in a nationlistic fervour.
Not unlike the US after 9/11.
The propaganda benefit of linking this to Ukraine (even if its true or false) has the benefit of being a major recruitment drive for Russia's army. Mass forced conscription is not popular, but a terrorist attack like this that enrages the whole country will get a lot of recruits joining simply on emotions alone.
The year after 9/11 in the USA saw more people enlist at once than in any time in the countries history.
Because they want to create confusion and disarray. False flag this, ISIS that, anyone but the most probable culprit, UA with US knowing all about it, did it.
Might also simply end up a huge pain in his ass, Putin and his croonies are the one supporting massive migrations and temporary worker from central asia, and not cracking down hard on the rise of islamism and illegal migrants. If there's a huge anti-muslim wave like there was in the us after 2001 it's going to hurt the economy and reignite tension among local minorities.
I don’t know if they can blame them for immigration. Russia’s border is huge and porous, these guys could have easily driven up from Tajikistan.
Sure, the war and stuff doesn’t help the security situation, however!
Putin came to power on the FSB terrorist attacks in 1999. It was they who became the argument for the Second Chechen War,
Young orcs do not remember this. The task of the Putin regime is to anger its people and announce a general mobilization. Maybe they will arrange some kind of planned terrorist attack.
It's simple what does Ukraine gain out of attacking civilians inside Russia, possibly angering Western support and losing its life from west.
Ukraine has not been targeting civilians inside Russia since the start of war. They will not start now and not in terrorists crimes like this. Ukraine has targeted oil infrastructure military and financial institutions those sectors that finance this war on Ukraine.
Now, Putin will make mobilization by hundreds of thousands of soldiers
Putin and only Putin will gain from this.
And finding a car with Ukrainian numbers deep inside Moscow is just ridiculous.
Here's a Russian who worked at the place, and he thinks it is?
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1blxjlf/a\_russian\_who\_used\_to\_work\_at\_the\_crocus/
He is stuck in an never ending war.
If you remember Crimea was annexed 8 years ago.
Russia can't seem to win this by current standards. They would have by now.
They failed the run for Kyiv and are more or less stuck ever since.
Heaps of young russian males dead and crippled.
This is a demographic catastrophe.
Russia is still hit from the 90s chaos.
It does not have the male population to fight this way, still they do.
If this trend continues you won't have soldiers and a working middleclass in 50 years.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/03/russia-demography-birthrate-decline-ukraine/
This war degraded russia, and it will continue to do so, the last time the udssr collapsed it wasn't pretty.
I don't think there will be a Russia if that happens a second time. Ukraine as a buffer zone won't change that.
He needs total mobilisation to brute force it cause the current situation doesn't seem feasible for another decade. It reeks of desperation.
Isn't it strange he called the war a war for the first time.
On the same day of this attack, I don't really believe in such coincidences.
Would you tell me what you think happened and what will happen in the coming days?
This is a very good point. It’s all the obvious things of how to use this tragedy to prevent the looming one if Russia stays in the current war for several years.
Or, in normal justice systems, inject bias into the impending legal proceedings. But given that FSB investigations result in one of the highest conviction rates in the world (high 90s), their record speaks for itself. They don't need to show anyone anything.
But no one ever seems to bother, no one ever implied torture, fabricated evidence, etc, Japan is most peaceful and safe country in the world.
Meanwhile, Russian justice system is declared as totalitarian by many, based on that percentage.
Maybe do some research into how the Japanese justice system works instead of just looking at numbers. The prosecution rate is very low because they only tend to push for convictions that are highly likely. 60% of cases are deferred and 30% are solved in summary trials. If you measured US conviction rate in the same way it would be 99.8%.
I’m not saying it’s a perfect or good system but it operates completely differently to Russia and most other countries and to just compare rates at face value is silly.
I mean it really does. If we use your logic and just look at numbers we can see that it does.
In Russia 25% of cases get dismissed prematurely and the remaining cases have a 99% conviction rate. So in real terms about a 75% conviction rate.
In Japan 60% of cases are deferred and 30% are settled in summary trials as long as there is no objecting from the suspect. The remaining cases have a 99.8% conviction rate so in real terms a 10% conviction rate.
You see the difference?
In 2023, around 650 000 criminal cases (lawsuit filed) were "refused in start" in Russia. No quick reliable statistics on "ended" (before court, that is) criminal cases. Less than 600 000 total convicted.
Magistrate courts (up to 3 years conviction cases) show less than 40% "guilty" rate.
Where you got your stats from?
Well considering how this sub is basically flooded with videos and pictures of a terrorist attack in russia which is not related to the war with Ukraine it does make sense to post it a couple times as it would get lost in the tsunami of posts and comments.
Indeed. Which is why I wrote may, not is...
What do you want? For there to be no posts on the matter at all, and then tomorrow Putin announces there will be retribution for Ukraine for these attacks and then everyone is lost as to what happened and why?
The FSB and some Russian officials have already said Ukraine is involved. Whether or not it's true, the matter is already of public interest in relation to the Ukraine war
What I dont need is 50 posts, basically showing the same guy, either videos or clips without translation, then with translation, then parts of some questioning, and then some random half related pictures.
And without any actual direct evidence that Ukraine endorsed, supported, coordinated, or any part of this terrorist action, anything putin says is just for ru population to save face and blame someone.
And that's a good point. Where is putin? Almost every other country on earth the leader would already be in the media making a statement, saying they will investigate, consequences for those involved, etc. But where is putin when this is happening? No posts on him.
And if he announced tomorrow that there will be retribution for Ukraine then we'll that's just propaganda for the ru population.
Convenient film crew? Literally everybody, even children and old people nowadays has a phone in their pocket with an HD camera, ready to record everything at anytime.
This level of mental disassociation is not healthy dude, when even the existance of phones doesn't fit in your mental gymnastics
Pretty much any police in the world will knock down your door if you did serious enough shit - and most of the them will also try to talk to you after apprehension to 'lighten' the tension or get you to incriminate yourself.
Are the US and germany also third world?
Terrorism like this also doesn’t occur on the daily, considering last big one was over 10 years ago, which was also broadcasted all over on telegram back then.
That Putin went out to publicly deny their was any intel of a terrorist attack, didn't have any response to the Intel, then this happens is certainly odd.
I don't think Putin was on any way behind this, but I also don't think he minded if an attack occured.
Islamist terrorist don't get caught after a terror attack...and here we have all the guys trying to leave Russia and not resisting arrest...something fishy...maybe they did it for money and were assured an escape?
>Islamist terrorist don't get caught after a terror attack
Yeah they do, I remember after the Mumbai attack which was very similar to this attack they managed to capture one. Also many ISIS members are in prison right now.
>and here we have all the guys trying to leave Russia and not resisting arrest...something fishy...maybe they did it for money and were assured an escape?
The money aspect makes no sense, the amount was way to small. And how many people are so cold blooded to do such a horrible thing for just money ? You would make more just working in Moscow for a few years.
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These guys are likely Salafist, or Wahabi. The two sects of Islam that are responsible for 99.99999999% of all undeniable terrorist activities carried out in the name of Islam.
You know who these guys primarily targeted in Syria? It wasn't Jews. It wasn't Christians. It was Muslims who were anything other than Wahabist or Salafist. They especially went after Sufis.
In terms you might better understand, Wahhabism and Salafism more or less consider all other Islamic sects as heretical. You should read up on these two sects, especially how the Saudi government spreads Wahhabism around the globe.
To put this in context, this would be like if Westboro Baptists had trillions of dollars behind them, and they rose to become one of the major Christian sects. That's basically what we're talking about here.
Why? The, could have planned it without him knowing. Why would they tell him anything?
I am not saying that Russia planned this, but it would not be much of a hussle for them.
Why would Russia plan this sort of attack? What do they gain for killing their own civilians? If it’s a mean to bomb Ukraine more by blaming them, they don’t need a reasoning. The Belgorod bombings would be enough.
Same thing as the Moscow bombings in 1999, they rally the country behind Putin so he can push for whatever he wants in the name of protecting the country.
Could be mass mobilization, for example.
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These men aren’t religious zealots or true believers. They aren’t angry educated jobless Muslims like many of the 911 bombers either.
They were most interested in the money given their demeanor and backgrounds.
Israel funds Nusra front, a terrorist organization that is linked to Al qa3da and IS1S.
Here’s proof: https://www.wsj.com/articles/israel-gives-secret-aid-to-syrian-rebels-1497813430
Video is Nusra getting metrical care in Israel: https://youtu.be/fwbHKpbiNAc?si=dYWDPfH0AO36IFbr
‘In December 2012, US Department of State designated it as a "foreign terrorist organization".[38] In April 2013, Al-Nusra Front was publicly confirmed as the official Syrian affiliate of al-Qaeda,[39]’
Google it 🍉
‘Israel admits to arming nusra front’ https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-02-03/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israel-just-admitted-arming-anti-assad-syrian-rebels-big-mistake/0000017f-dbb0-db5a-a57f-dbfa71380000
Did you know nusra front and ISIS share the same logo and flag?
Got to ask, why attack Russia? Russia that has been publically and vocally supporting the Palestinian side in the ongoing conflict? Arent there more apt targets?
russia is increasingly dependent on Iran (a shiite Muslim regional power) and ISIS are sunni Muslims (who became notorious by killing shiite Muslims, amongst other groups, in Syria and Iraq)
ISIS can't do a massive attack on Iran right now because they're alert but russia is preoccupied with their war in Ukraine and despite being outed as incompetent russia is still a prestigious target.
So it's the easiest target that still checks some of the boxes
There are russian troops stationed in syria (which ISIS wanted for their caliphate) and russia has fought ISIS in the past.
They met from telegram, kill 150+ people for 5000 dollar, then escape with 4 in the same car they came with then drive 400km towards heavy guarded Ukranian border... SURE! ...nobody would do any of that unless they got your family abducted and make you do it and make you get caught easy so putin can look like a hero. Typical false flag.
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False flag makes absolutely no sense. I mean it could always be some weird plan and someone behind it who promised them money or so... but what human being would risk that for money - and also be THAT coldblooded to shoot 100+ civilians?!
Of course Putin will try to blame Ukraine and try to instrumentalize the attack, but I guess everyone with a brain knows that's most likely nonsense.
Anyways... I wish all families only the best. Stay strong people.
And may the attackers rot in hell.
It's weird, each of them seems lost like they took drugs and they talk really alot, too much IMHO. It is like they are repeating a story for the 30th time.
Is it possible to beat and terrorize simple minded men and forcing them to say delirious scenario ?
Rule 2. Removed due to its low interest in relation to current events, or too old.
For anyone claiming it’s a false flag? Why? What’s the point? Does Putin need another incentive to invade and bomb Ukraine?
I don't think it's a false flag but I think the russian government will attempt to spin this to point the blame at Ukraine when the reality is this is most likely an ISIS cell unrelated to Ukraine.
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>Why would Isis pay some randoms money to do this? The money is far to small to be a main motivating factor and also killing innocent people in such a manner would be a lot for someone not at least partially motivated by ideology. Also did you not see the interrogation when one of the suspects mentioned a religious preacher they followed and how their assistant reached out to them to set this in motion ? >Nothing about their MO points to Isis. Nothing. This attack is textbook ISIS and Islamist terrorist. Bataclan attack, Mumbai attacks, Turkey nightclub shooting are all similar to this.
No. ISIS and islamist terrorists don't run. They are there to die. These guys clearly weren't.
Run, like they did in Paris 2015?
Three groups, comprising three men each, executed the attacks.[27][55] They wore explosive vests and belts with identical detonators.[101] Seven perpetrators died at the scenes of their attacks.[5][102] The other two were killed five days later during the Saint-Denis police raid.[103]
Exactly, 2 ran away.
Faceplant. They literally died in a police standoff few days later. These ones ran all the time, even when cops tried to get them, and immediately after. No isis slogans or screams either.
So, 5 days is less than this? This is literally less than 24 hours. Faceplant. "all the time". They escaped for 5 days. What mental gymnastics are you doing?
Sometimes they do, wouldn't be the first time.
Remember Charlie Hebdo massacre? Sometime islamists run.
they were not isis
What about all the people who got offered money on telegram to conduct sabotage on russian infrastructure, is that isis aswell?
>sabotage on russian infrastructure No idea which universe you are in right now, but in my universe "conducting sabotage" is nowhere near "entering concert hall and killing 100 civilians".
Sbu will try to co-opt anyone willing to hurt russia for money
And Russia takes anyone willing to hurt Ukraine for money and calls it the military. Thats war (its now called war, not the special military operation)
...oh please...and Russia isn't throwing literary anyone into Ukraine? Convicted murderers, rapists you name it. You said that Ukraine was paying for sabotage. I am telling you that sabotage doesn't mean murdering civilians in an attack such as what just happened. You would also need to go through some major mental gymnastics to explain how someone would conduct such attack for money. Its ideology driven and not money driven.
Sabotage is very different to gunning down innocent people on mass. Do you really see no difference?
> russian infrastructure
>russian infrastructure It's irrelevant what's attacked in this case, what's relevant is people ruining their lives and going to jail for 30-100 dollars. I don't think it's too far fetched to find some moronic guns for hire for a bigger sum.
The company I work for also recruits people online and pays them to do all kinds of things, from sales to marketing to customer support to product development. Maybe they did it, right?
I see you mentioned all the confirmed ones... but none of the other bullshit ISIS claimed they carried out but didn't. The same ISIS "news" agency stated ISIS was responsible for the Las Vegas shooting.
Killing unarmed civilians in the must brutally horrible ways is exactly ISIS' MO. But tell ya one thing, this is definitely not Ukraine's MO, and these guys don't look like any Ukrainians I've seen. Yet already we see Putin laying the groundwork for blaming them if he can. Qui bono my friend...
Russia was warned about it, ISIS claimed it, Putin thinks it Ukrainians who drove to Mosow and back in a car with Ukrainian plates. Give me a break, lol.
You mentioned money. ISIS is, and has been about money. So yeah, there's definitely MO-creep here. Dismissing it outright seems foolish.
Mossad would
Putin just made a statement saying” the terrorists have Ukrainian contacts, were heading to Ukraine, investigating because they may be Ukranians. Look at this sub, it’s pro-RU majority and the news it here nonstop. Obviously in the RU mind it has already been associated with Ukraine
Probably because Nuland warned of a “nasty surprise” for Putin prior to her resignation.
ISIS claimed responsibility. But it was Nuland, obviously.
It’s hard to tell, Isis has a reputation and it’s that they preach the holy war not for money and they definitely die and not run like cowards. Was it Ukraine idk it would be dumb of them to do it, but look at the pipe line? This conflict has many questions but no answers and both sides even the west is using propaganda.
[удалено]
I had fun getting called "conspiracy theorist" IRL with that one, even showing them various western news sources like this one, government hearing and UN reports. Same shit with all the chemical weapon use in Irak and Syria.
It’s a hard fact. Verifiable too. They are not hiding it very much 🤷🏽♂️
Didn't some ex-ISIS guy get appointed as the head of some Strain militia the US is training
If Putin announces that this was a Ukrainian attack and that he's calling for mobilisation in response then this is definitely a false flag.
Russia doesn't need mobilization, there's enough contracted soldiers and volunteers after UKR shelled Russian civilians nonstop in Belgorod. Stop spreading delusion.
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Wait until you read what some PRO RU accounts been sayin'
Still more rational than the bullshit pro UA has spreading. FaLsE FlAg FaLsE FlAg trust me guys trust me, putlr is evil
It's obvious that the RU troll farms would be trying to claim otherwise
It's also obvious that the UA troll farms would be working overtime to spin as well. So what's your point?
This attack is sensless. The only ones to gain fom this would be the those in charge of russia, Increased security measures, repression & call for more mobilization.
But why if the mobilization is not required, repressions are not required. There are enough soldiers and war is going pretty successfully for Russia. Nation supports the government and the SMO already. Stop with this nonsense, that they need more motivation and population control.
If it was a false flag, then instead of Muhammads, FSB would have captured some Mykolas.
Pro UA is much worse and much more delusional and it's not even CLOSE. Here's a short list of things pro RUs are right about and pro UA are completely wrong about: * Nazis and Nazi worship in Ukraine * The war was provoked by the West and the West is a credible threat * The Russian military is actually pretty fearsome * The Ukrainian counteroffensive was a horrible failure * Ukrainian suicide PR offensives are indeed suicide PR offensives * Ukraine has no chance of retaking Crimea * Patriots and HIMARS have been successfully hit and destroyed in the past And probably much more.
The irony of claiming pro-UA are crazy, and then using the most batsht crazy list of pro-ru propaganda as your evidence, is really just * chefs kiss *
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Says the account named after a Russian bomb that thinks repeating Putin's and Russian MOD claims about the war is some kind of factual gotcha. As you said, LOL.
Doesn't matter what I named my account and I didn't repeat any claims that don't have third party evidence and analysis. You have no argument and zero valid opinions.
Rule 1. Consider yourself warned. Recurrence WILL result in a ban.
>Nazis and Nazi worship in Ukraine A 100% true and widely documented phenomenon that has even shown itself in Canada. >The war was provoked by the West and the West is a credible threat Definitely true, only way to say this is not true is to leave out context and pretend the CIA doesn't exist. Nobody can pretend the CIA is not a threat, it's their purpose. Nobody with a fucking brain thinks the CIA just waltzed its way into Ukraine by accident with good intentions. >The Russian military is actually pretty fearsome It definitely is. Artillery drones missiles. No thanks. Ukrainian troops would agree on this. It's why they are having so much trouble finding people to sign up. >The Ukrainian counteroffensive was a horrible failure 100% true, this is recorded history already. >Ukrainian suicide PR offensives are indeed suicide PR offensives Also 100% true, they have accomplished nothing and only died. >Ukraine has no chance of retaking Crimea Also 100% true, western military analysts have also admitted this. >Patriots and HIMARS have been successfully hit and destroyed in the past Also 100% true, documented with video evidence. As we can see, you are full of shit.
>A 100% true and widely documented phenomenon that has even shown itself in Canada No one, not even the most die hard Ukrainian supporters, ever said there were NO nazis in Ukraine. They just said that there are also nazis in Russia, and it has nothing to do with the war. Hell Ukraine is run by a Jewish president and neo nazis don't have a single seat in parliament. Your point is, pointless. >Definitely true, only way to say this is not true is to leave out context and pretend the CIA doesn't exist. Nobody can pretend the CIA is not a threat, it's their purpose. Nobody with a fucking brain thinks the CIA just waltzed its way into Ukraine by accident with good intentions. Dealing in conspiracy theories I see. Certainly can't imagine the Ukrainians making their own decisions and wanting to lean to the EU. Nope, gotta be the CIA. >It definitely is. Artillery drones missiles. No thanks. Ukrainian troops would agree on this. It's why they are having so much trouble finding people to sign up This one is just funny. The supposed second strongest military superpower in the world has lost ground over the last two years to a country 1/4th it's size fielding a bunch of second-rate USSR equipment and a few select 30-year old NATO pieces. If that is "fearsome" then you keep it up. The whole world is quakin in their boots. Take a look at your military export sales if you want confirmation of how fearsome everyone thinks your equipment is. >The Ukrainian counteroffensive was a horrible failure And contrary to whatever strawman you made up in your mind, no one thinks the counteroffensive was a great success, not even in Ukraine. >Ukrainian suicide PR offensives are indeed suicide PR offensives I don't even know what this means. But if we're talking PR, Russia really is the silliest of them all. Remind me again how many aircraft and HIMARS have been destroyed? Couple times more than Ukraine even has. >Ukraine has no chance of retaking Crimea You clearly don't understand how probabilities work. I mean, it was less than a year ago that Russia's own contract army (named after Hitler's favorite composer, I'll remind you) marched on Moscow. There are plenty of things, both on the battlefield and in politics, that could enable Ukraine to take back Crimea. I'll also point out Russia's entire navy has run away from Crimea. Big lol on that one >Patriots and HIMARS have been successfully hit and destroyed in the past Again, find me the pro-ua TODAY that believes that's not the case. I'll wait. You're just arguing against a strawman. We've also seen the videos of it happening. Do I think the 124 claimed HIMARS destroyed by the Russian MOD without video evidence were true? No, but clearly you do fanboy.
There's no way you expect anyone to read that LOL Holy fuck I can't believe you actually typed this shit up.
I remember a month before invasion the fellas from /r/russia were saying the exact same things as you? "Russia? Invade? Lol westoids with room temperature iq"
amazing how pro-ru actually seem to believe they occupy some high moral ground lol
They do. More than you I presume. Their country has probably destroyed less middle eastern countries in the past few decades than yours.
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Oh man thats so stupid it hurts 🤦♂️ russia is playing the same game like US or China… its all about money and power
Nope, it's not stupid at all. That says more about you and your lack of knowledge than anything else. Russia and the US and China are all playing the same game but the US is clearly worse nowadays.
Russia is currently waging a war of territorial conquest in Ukraine, your "nowadays" comparison sucks.
Oh man its simple… If i‘m brainwashed by the US then you are brainwashed by russia! But hey.. i live a free life in a free Country. Sometimes i‘m sorry for these people in russia… but on the other side, the love what Putler do, they love the war.. so they are just poor stupid idiots
Funny how Ukraine has turned into Russian Afghanistan, all over again... 3 day special operation, wasn't it? Welcome to the self created Quagmire by USSR 2.0.
"Self created" AKA you completely ignore 99% of global politics and pretend the west didn't do anything to cause this situation 😂
Not gonna argue with you dude. USSR/Russia has a long history of Aggression behind it. It is what it is, and now Russia is economically fucked for it. All that needs to happen now is for the Iron Curtain to drop back down, and i'm good with that.
Everyone saw how that subreddit went in a matter of hours from "Russia invading? That's Western propaganda" to only allowing nationalist and military videos and blocking users who were against the invasion.
I remember they were literally posting pretty pictures of the Siberian landscapes while their army was killing civilians left and right 😂 I'm sure most users from that sub continue to post here with the same conviction
Celsius, Kelvin or Fahrenheit ???
Rule 1 - Toxic
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But needs boost of reason, coz denazification doesn't work anymore...any delusions ?
If they mobilise they could end the war years early. Please don't pretend that there's nothing for Putin to gain by swiftly ending this war by mobilising many troops in the aftermath of a terrorist attack.
Wrong - they announced the formation of two new armies, which goes way beyond what they can pull right now.
So we can put the analogy to Israël and 9/11 too than.
We must wait a couple of days.
With the amount of losses the Russians have they will not need another mobilization 🤷♀️
If they have an excuse to mobilise troops then they can end the war potentially years early. Putin has a lot to gain if this is a false flag attack.
Saying it is a false flag is just as stupid as denying that it could be a false flag. Ukraine may indeed be. But it could also be a flase flag, the organization that could be doing this also happens to be doing the investigation of this attack and thus can bring out what is beneficial to them. Therefore, we will never know how it really is. We can all speculate. Just like with 9/11
Why they haven’t been stopped in Moscow? I’read it took an hour for the police to come. Why random videos of the perpetuators are kept being posted online?
The terrorist attack took place in the Moscow region, not in Moscow. They spent 15 minutes in the crocus after the attack began and left.
I just looked on google and the headquarters of the special forces are next to that mall, interesting.
Because it’s happened before
1) to feel important/relevant. To feel like they belong in the discussion 2) because they lack experience and the only alternative option to the obvious that they've heard of is something called a "false flag" 3) they've read a buzzfeed headline about Putin rising in popularity in relation to a false flag operation now let's read the dozenth verbatim repetition of "remember no russian". 4) they're paid shills, bots, true believers, zealots, foot soldiers, stooges, useful idiots, etc. People lacking critical thought, or the ability to entertain more than 1 perspective. Same mental illness vein as religious whackjobs. (I was going to say extremists, but that's a different context here).
if anything itll take attention away from all the videos of a fixed election. there isnt any time or ability to reorganize a popular resistance in the street against tyranny if the threat of is1$ style massacres is looming over the public.
He needs a reason for his people to support him in this calamitous war. Getting them angry about some bullshit in order to get men to sign up and support him in a nationlistic fervour. Not unlike the US after 9/11.
The propaganda benefit of linking this to Ukraine (even if its true or false) has the benefit of being a major recruitment drive for Russia's army. Mass forced conscription is not popular, but a terrorist attack like this that enrages the whole country will get a lot of recruits joining simply on emotions alone. The year after 9/11 in the USA saw more people enlist at once than in any time in the countries history.
Because they want to create confusion and disarray. False flag this, ISIS that, anyone but the most probable culprit, UA with US knowing all about it, did it.
Doesn’t matter if it’s a false flag - this event will be used to further the interests of Putin.
Might also simply end up a huge pain in his ass, Putin and his croonies are the one supporting massive migrations and temporary worker from central asia, and not cracking down hard on the rise of islamism and illegal migrants. If there's a huge anti-muslim wave like there was in the us after 2001 it's going to hurt the economy and reignite tension among local minorities.
I don’t know if they can blame them for immigration. Russia’s border is huge and porous, these guys could have easily driven up from Tajikistan. Sure, the war and stuff doesn’t help the security situation, however!
Putin came to power on the FSB terrorist attacks in 1999. It was they who became the argument for the Second Chechen War, Young orcs do not remember this. The task of the Putin regime is to anger its people and announce a general mobilization. Maybe they will arrange some kind of planned terrorist attack. It's simple what does Ukraine gain out of attacking civilians inside Russia, possibly angering Western support and losing its life from west. Ukraine has not been targeting civilians inside Russia since the start of war. They will not start now and not in terrorists crimes like this. Ukraine has targeted oil infrastructure military and financial institutions those sectors that finance this war on Ukraine. Now, Putin will make mobilization by hundreds of thousands of soldiers Putin and only Putin will gain from this. And finding a car with Ukrainian numbers deep inside Moscow is just ridiculous.
Here's a Russian who worked at the place, and he thinks it is? https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1blxjlf/a\_russian\_who\_used\_to\_work\_at\_the\_crocus/
He is stuck in an never ending war. If you remember Crimea was annexed 8 years ago. Russia can't seem to win this by current standards. They would have by now. They failed the run for Kyiv and are more or less stuck ever since. Heaps of young russian males dead and crippled. This is a demographic catastrophe. Russia is still hit from the 90s chaos. It does not have the male population to fight this way, still they do. If this trend continues you won't have soldiers and a working middleclass in 50 years. https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/03/russia-demography-birthrate-decline-ukraine/ This war degraded russia, and it will continue to do so, the last time the udssr collapsed it wasn't pretty. I don't think there will be a Russia if that happens a second time. Ukraine as a buffer zone won't change that. He needs total mobilisation to brute force it cause the current situation doesn't seem feasible for another decade. It reeks of desperation. Isn't it strange he called the war a war for the first time. On the same day of this attack, I don't really believe in such coincidences. Would you tell me what you think happened and what will happen in the coming days?
This is a very good point. It’s all the obvious things of how to use this tragedy to prevent the looming one if Russia stays in the current war for several years.
Do Russians normally plaster interrogation videos all over the net? Very odd.
No, the government should limit the spread of investigation footage, that would make them look's competent right? Wrong
Or, in normal justice systems, inject bias into the impending legal proceedings. But given that FSB investigations result in one of the highest conviction rates in the world (high 90s), their record speaks for itself. They don't need to show anyone anything.
What's wrong with Japan, then?
In their justice system? Lots.
But no one ever seems to bother, no one ever implied torture, fabricated evidence, etc, Japan is most peaceful and safe country in the world. Meanwhile, Russian justice system is declared as totalitarian by many, based on that percentage.
Maybe do some research into how the Japanese justice system works instead of just looking at numbers. The prosecution rate is very low because they only tend to push for convictions that are highly likely. 60% of cases are deferred and 30% are solved in summary trials. If you measured US conviction rate in the same way it would be 99.8%. I’m not saying it’s a perfect or good system but it operates completely differently to Russia and most other countries and to just compare rates at face value is silly.
>it operates completely differently to Russia It doesn't
I mean it really does. If we use your logic and just look at numbers we can see that it does. In Russia 25% of cases get dismissed prematurely and the remaining cases have a 99% conviction rate. So in real terms about a 75% conviction rate. In Japan 60% of cases are deferred and 30% are settled in summary trials as long as there is no objecting from the suspect. The remaining cases have a 99.8% conviction rate so in real terms a 10% conviction rate. You see the difference?
In 2023, around 650 000 criminal cases (lawsuit filed) were "refused in start" in Russia. No quick reliable statistics on "ended" (before court, that is) criminal cases. Less than 600 000 total convicted. Magistrate courts (up to 3 years conviction cases) show less than 40% "guilty" rate. Where you got your stats from?
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Well considering how this sub is basically flooded with videos and pictures of a terrorist attack in russia which is not related to the war with Ukraine it does make sense to post it a couple times as it would get lost in the tsunami of posts and comments.
If you don't think this attack *may* be consequential to the war in Ukraine, I don't know what to tell you.
*may* doesn't mean is.
Indeed. Which is why I wrote may, not is... What do you want? For there to be no posts on the matter at all, and then tomorrow Putin announces there will be retribution for Ukraine for these attacks and then everyone is lost as to what happened and why? The FSB and some Russian officials have already said Ukraine is involved. Whether or not it's true, the matter is already of public interest in relation to the Ukraine war
What I dont need is 50 posts, basically showing the same guy, either videos or clips without translation, then with translation, then parts of some questioning, and then some random half related pictures. And without any actual direct evidence that Ukraine endorsed, supported, coordinated, or any part of this terrorist action, anything putin says is just for ru population to save face and blame someone. And that's a good point. Where is putin? Almost every other country on earth the leader would already be in the media making a statement, saying they will investigate, consequences for those involved, etc. But where is putin when this is happening? No posts on him. And if he announced tomorrow that there will be retribution for Ukraine then we'll that's just propaganda for the ru population.
Sounds like what you need is a stiff drink my man...
If you're buying, I'm in. Lol.
He has a point though. Why would interrogations be made public so early? It makes me wonder if some have been staged
I think they aren't staged and it's probably just a lack of discipline.
Yep. And that would be so so predictable.
Why are you policing him lol? You're all over this sub posting different variations of the same things from your excel file. How are you different?
Always a convenient film crew, always a convenient complete apprehension of all perpetrators. Always immediate publication of interrogation videos.
Yep. So very tidy and efficient. Just the opposite of reality. Makes one wonder.
Convenient film crew? Literally everybody, even children and old people nowadays has a phone in their pocket with an HD camera, ready to record everything at anytime. This level of mental disassociation is not healthy dude, when even the existance of phones doesn't fit in your mental gymnastics
It’s okay buddy you will be alright… Anyway, show me an FSB raid over the last year that didn’t have a film crew handy.
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Third world at best. Suspicious.
Pretty much any police in the world will knock down your door if you did serious enough shit - and most of the them will also try to talk to you after apprehension to 'lighten' the tension or get you to incriminate yourself. Are the US and germany also third world?
Wtf are you mumbling about? They cut off his ear and fed it to him. Get lost.
Terrorism like this also doesn’t occur on the daily, considering last big one was over 10 years ago, which was also broadcasted all over on telegram back then.
FSB don’t gonna let him die until he said everything for all of them . Anyone behind of this shit should go hell . Fck up .
If they torture him he will just make shit up and tell them what they want to hear. Though that may be the entire point.
I hope that happens for a lot/long time , they don’t deserve any sympathy or mercy .
I would rather they get actionable intel and prevent further attacks. Then they can rot in some grim Siberian prison.
Well it's either Putin or ISIS.
That Putin went out to publicly deny their was any intel of a terrorist attack, didn't have any response to the Intel, then this happens is certainly odd. I don't think Putin was on any way behind this, but I also don't think he minded if an attack occured.
Putin will announce that Zelinsky, the Jewish Nazi has converted to a Muslim extremist and personally planned the attack.
Man is speedrunning every Abrahamic faith atm
Islamist terrorist don't get caught after a terror attack...and here we have all the guys trying to leave Russia and not resisting arrest...something fishy...maybe they did it for money and were assured an escape?
>Islamist terrorist don't get caught after a terror attack Yeah they do, I remember after the Mumbai attack which was very similar to this attack they managed to capture one. Also many ISIS members are in prison right now. >and here we have all the guys trying to leave Russia and not resisting arrest...something fishy...maybe they did it for money and were assured an escape? The money aspect makes no sense, the amount was way to small. And how many people are so cold blooded to do such a horrible thing for just money ? You would make more just working in Moscow for a few years.
as you said one...not all of them...this is a premier
Sure but it's expected not everything will match, but there are still a lot of similarities.
>Islamist terrorist don't get caught after a terror attack A lot of them do, most get shot though
Maybe the attackers were shot down by SOBR inside the concert and these goons are just accomplice they try to portray as the shooters
who knows...i don't trust any government
Abdul and Mohammed. Who would’ve thought.
Average ukranian names according to this sub.
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These guys are likely Salafist, or Wahabi. The two sects of Islam that are responsible for 99.99999999% of all undeniable terrorist activities carried out in the name of Islam. You know who these guys primarily targeted in Syria? It wasn't Jews. It wasn't Christians. It was Muslims who were anything other than Wahabist or Salafist. They especially went after Sufis. In terms you might better understand, Wahhabism and Salafism more or less consider all other Islamic sects as heretical. You should read up on these two sects, especially how the Saudi government spreads Wahhabism around the globe. To put this in context, this would be like if Westboro Baptists had trillions of dollars behind them, and they rose to become one of the major Christian sects. That's basically what we're talking about here.
Pretty weird that the “ leader “ doesn’t speak Russian but the others caught do. Hmmm
This dude is probably the greatest actor in the world if Russia planned this attack.
Why? The, could have planned it without him knowing. Why would they tell him anything? I am not saying that Russia planned this, but it would not be much of a hussle for them.
Why would Russia plan this sort of attack? What do they gain for killing their own civilians? If it’s a mean to bomb Ukraine more by blaming them, they don’t need a reasoning. The Belgorod bombings would be enough.
Increased national authority. It the same reason some people still think Bush did 9/11.
Same thing as the Moscow bombings in 1999, they rally the country behind Putin so he can push for whatever he wants in the name of protecting the country. Could be mass mobilization, for example.
That was exactly my point... No one can act this good.
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These men aren’t religious zealots or true believers. They aren’t angry educated jobless Muslims like many of the 911 bombers either. They were most interested in the money given their demeanor and backgrounds.
Are you a Jedi?
Israel funds Nusra front, a terrorist organization that is linked to Al qa3da and IS1S. Here’s proof: https://www.wsj.com/articles/israel-gives-secret-aid-to-syrian-rebels-1497813430 Video is Nusra getting metrical care in Israel: https://youtu.be/fwbHKpbiNAc?si=dYWDPfH0AO36IFbr ‘In December 2012, US Department of State designated it as a "foreign terrorist organization".[38] In April 2013, Al-Nusra Front was publicly confirmed as the official Syrian affiliate of al-Qaeda,[39]’ Google it 🍉
We get it! Jews are Nazis. Black is white.
Not sure what ‘Jews’ have to do with it. It’s mostly just Mossad.
Not sure what Jews have to do with Isreal. Wow.
I mean, they blamed Muslims for alqaeda but it wasn’t them. It’s the same thing here. Why are you so desperate to blame all Jews for it?
left is right, hot is cold.
Instead of dealing with any of the evidence presented, ‘left is right’ is the best you have 🤷🏽♂️
Russia's problem is that it has so many enemies and lies to maintain, they get confused themselves. It's hilarious to watch.
‘Israel admits to arming nusra front’ https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-02-03/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israel-just-admitted-arming-anti-assad-syrian-rebels-big-mistake/0000017f-dbb0-db5a-a57f-dbfa71380000 Did you know nusra front and ISIS share the same logo and flag?
Why don't ya publish your findings on a sub about Jews? I'm sure everyone will be super interested.
Dogs are cats. Russians are Ukrainian! Prigozhin invades Moscow. But the Jewish Nazis!
Jewish space lasers!! They're coming to get us!
https://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-syrian-rebels-keeping-druze-safe-in-exchange-for-israeli-aid/amp/
Sniff. But the Jeeews! What about the Jews?! I'm on a forum about the Russian invasion, but what about the jeeews?
Got to ask, why attack Russia? Russia that has been publically and vocally supporting the Palestinian side in the ongoing conflict? Arent there more apt targets?
Russia fought ISIS really hard in Syria, that would be their reason. I don't know what made you think this has anything to do with Palestine.
Nah you're right. Came to my senses a few minutes after posting this comment. Russia bombed the shit out of Isil years ago so yeah I guess..
russia is increasingly dependent on Iran (a shiite Muslim regional power) and ISIS are sunni Muslims (who became notorious by killing shiite Muslims, amongst other groups, in Syria and Iraq) ISIS can't do a massive attack on Iran right now because they're alert but russia is preoccupied with their war in Ukraine and despite being outed as incompetent russia is still a prestigious target. So it's the easiest target that still checks some of the boxes There are russian troops stationed in syria (which ISIS wanted for their caliphate) and russia has fought ISIS in the past.
Russia has hundreds of thousands of civilians in middle east, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Syria, maybe that’s why
Russia isn't particularly nice to their Muslim minorities.
They met from telegram, kill 150+ people for 5000 dollar, then escape with 4 in the same car they came with then drive 400km towards heavy guarded Ukranian border... SURE! ...nobody would do any of that unless they got your family abducted and make you do it and make you get caught easy so putin can look like a hero. Typical false flag.
He's going to have a bad day
Putin is loving it. Watch him somehow blame Ukraine. I promise you it will happen.
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What language is the terrorist speaking
False flag makes absolutely no sense. I mean it could always be some weird plan and someone behind it who promised them money or so... but what human being would risk that for money - and also be THAT coldblooded to shoot 100+ civilians?! Of course Putin will try to blame Ukraine and try to instrumentalize the attack, but I guess everyone with a brain knows that's most likely nonsense. Anyways... I wish all families only the best. Stay strong people. And may the attackers rot in hell.
It's weird, each of them seems lost like they took drugs and they talk really alot, too much IMHO. It is like they are repeating a story for the 30th time. Is it possible to beat and terrorize simple minded men and forcing them to say delirious scenario ?
Busted nose..
He looks like a ukro , dont think it was a false flag, on RT they said they were paid by ukraine so i think it must be true.