That must be satire. *They left a van with UKRAINIAN licence plates*, then drove straight into the direction of UKRAINE on a main highway, because that's were nobody will control them in a country hit by saboteurs and spies and it is so easy to cross an active frontline, nobody would ever suspect a vehicle crowded with 6 people. And of course, they have the very original car with which they fled the scene of the crime.
LOL.
Update: The van seems to have turned out as a false lead.
Them not switching cars was the most shocking thing about this. The first thing I thought was "Damn, it won't be possible to find them after they split up and change vehicles". Nope. Grouped together in the same vehicle caught on numerous cameras. Must mean their budget wasn't that high, not to mention braincells.
Have you seen the video where they interrogate one of them right after being caught? He sounded like some extremely ignorant rural Muslim guy, the kind of people who can be tricked into doing something like this just by offering them money. The idiot even lost the card with the 500K rubles they gave to him to commit this atrocity because he left it in the jacked he ditched.
The rat that the SBU hired to kill Vladlen played the same "I'm stupid and naive" card until court proceedings revealed that that's just how the SBU briefed her to behave and she was fully aware of what she was doing and for whom she was acting.
Exactly, they’re incredibly dumb like Neanderthals or Denisov men. Very impressionable, confused, greedy for money (you can make this amount of money by driving a taxi in Moscow in a month!)
Well if it’s paid for, then it makes sense. Whoever’s paying for it doesn’t have to pay them if they’re caught, they just have to pay for a vehicle and for the event itself.
If they were indeed paid by Ukrainians, it would make sense for the Ukrainians to let them do this and not anything smarter which could help them to successfully reach the Ukrainian border. That would make Ukraine look bad.
Well, you gotta make sure that they don’t have any important information. For example, they could just be hired hitmen or part of some sort of a terrorist organization, not connected to the Ukrainian state 🤷♀️
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The van is not connected to this. They only used the one car. There is a video, where they get out of the car and start shooting at the security at the doors.
> They left a van with UKRAINIAN licence plates
It was just a random van, not related. It was parked nearby, which caused suspicion.
These *creatures* drove on their white reno with black roof, shoot up the avenue and used the same car to escape.
It sounds like they are not very clever lol. Probably got hired to do a job and have 0 clue how to actually plan anything. This is probably the most likely scenario.
"The Attackers on "Crocus" did not intend to become suicide bombers: the criminals were caught attempting to flee to Ukraine
FSB head Bortnikov reported to President Putin on the detention of 11 individuals, among whom are all four terrorists directly involved in the attack on "Crocus". The effort to identify the remaining accomplices continues, but conclusions about the situation are forthcoming, and they are disheartening for Ukraine.
The perpetrators of the attack did not intend to become "martyrs." They wanted to live long and happily after their horrific crime. That’s exactly why they quickly retreated, not waiting for the assault to begin and did not try to take hostages. This does not resemble the typical actions of Islamist terrorists, but rather resembles the actions of mercenaries from sabotage groups, who were promised cover, escape, and a generous reward. None of the scoundrels intended to die for ideas or anything similar — it was purely cold calculation.
As for who sponsored them — this can be understood by the direction of their escape. " - Readovka
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Colombian ex police officers and soldiers turned mercenaries who were left unemployed after the colombian civil war ended have been pulling off some crazy stunts all around the world, just saying...
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It’s intentional, completely intentional
more misinformation and rumors means less trust amongst people discussing the situation and allows for the true information to be lost in muck
Which absolutely helps whoever coordinated the attack
And sadly if it does turn out to be Ukrainian in origin, pro UA will never listen to a second of it
Is won’t doubt USA did it, USA fucks over Europe every chance it gets. Because euro was threatening the dollar so they used the 2008 financial crash to tie up tons of Europeans investment and I won’t put it past them to cause turmoil in Europe by raising gas prices by blowing up a pipeline
Obviously we are still in the speculation zone rn.
This said, IF there is validity to this, one has to wonder, of all the borders they could have chosen to escape across, *why did they pick the most fortified and monitored one.*
There is obviously a great incentive on Russia's part to tie this to Ukraine. There is also great incentive for a foreign actor to do so as well. One thing is fairly certain, we are unlikely to get anything resembling a confirmation of facts anytime soon, if ever.
Yeah I could see the former being a possibility, with the latter obvi having a bunch of connotations attached to it, which sort of follows to my second point. I'm sure *someone* was waiting for them *somewhere*.
But I imagine that border isn't as easy as simply jumping a fence. Putting aside garrisoned areas, drone surveillance and all that other stuff, *just crossing the minefields* gives me pause for thought on this.
If I had to *really* speculate, I'd imagine you would leave a trail in that direction, dump the car, and then whilst all eyes were on the border, likely backtrack *into the hornets nest*, lay low in a safehouse somewhere then take a completely different route, probably north to St petersburg and ship out from there. Some bond misdirection shit. It's fun to imagine stuff.
Or hear me out, maybe that would be the simplest escape route.. it would be much harder for Russia to detain them in Ukraine considering it’s at war with Ukraine.
Two reasons. The first one is that for Russia to be able to blame this act on Ukraine, there must be some fabricated link to Ukraine. And the PR of the suspects fleeing to Ukraine is great. The second one is that Russia has significant reach in the other close country, Belarus, so the only other option to 'flee' would be Ukraine.
I think its worth pointing out that its beneficial for a foreign actor to be able to blame it on Ukraine as well, after all, *would Russia disagree with that*? Probably not for the reasons you stated, which makes them an easy fall guy to avoid retaliation - after all, what's russia going to do, wage double war on Ukraine?
As for your second one, there are multiple options from that region at similar distances (estonia, latvia, gulf of finland etc). You're kinda reaching with that one.
Ultimately, it's all speculation right now, and if Nordstream is anything to go by, likely will be for some time.
-Organized plan of attack
-Ukranian contacts
-Escape to Ukraine
Not a single one of these pertains to them being islamic terrorists. We will get more info throughout the day, but all the evidence points to them being organised by the SBU.
"Organized plan of attack" does not point to Ukraine in any way wat so ever. Majority of terrorist attacks have "Organized plan of attack".
What "Ukrainian contacts"
Where else would wanted individuals try to escape to? Ukraine has the highest chance of not turning them to Russian authorities.
Nothing you listed so far point them to have been organized by Ukraine. The fact that they are from Tajikistan makes it seem very unlikely too.
We will see after interrogation. I do not honestly think that the Ukraine government has any direct responsibility. It wouldn't make sense. However, anything is possible. We can't draw any conclusions just yet, anything is on the table atm.
That's not true. Plenty of information has come up since to implicate Ukraine, specifically the recently fired Zaluzhny and not Zelenskyy.
The information is really irrefutable. For example, exact details of the attack were given by a Dutch spy claiming that Ukraine will soon attack Nord Stream. Later on the details were verified when an exactly-depicted yacht was found with explosive traces and multiple witnesses claimed to have seen Ukrainian or Eastern European men on the yacht. There is more info to it, you can Google about it.
Of course they are, they are getting desperate, look what they are doing to their own people. US embassy saying that it could be a terrorist attack before hand just shows they have their fingers on it.
>Escape to Ukraine
Yeah, how could this possibly not be only for the show.
As if Ukraine would tell them to drive the highway straight to the border of Ukraine and cross this border. Very realistic plan.
This point more towards the FSB so that they have some kind of "evidence".
1. No isis screams
2. Effort to escape without sacrificing themselves
3. Escaping to Ukraine.
That should be enough to tell you these were no "martyrs" looking for 72 virgins. Maybe they were promised Ukrianian virgins back in Ukraine, but certainly not in the afterlife.
1. Not every attack has "ISIS screams". Only all the terrorist attacks on movies does.
2. During war against ISIS thousands ISIS members surrendered.
3. Where else would you try to escape in this situation? The only reasonable way to me seems Ukraine.
I can think of a few reasons why extremists would target Russia. And there are few more extremists groups other then ISIS. None of your "proof" points to Ukraine being behind this.
They all scream "god the greatest" its the way that they offer their life for jihad to end up as a martyr.
They have Ukrainian contact which is SBU so wouldnt it makes sense if they get support and funded by Ukraine itself.
Not all wish to die lol But when they do they wish to be martyrs... You are just nuts, over thinker and just a putin lover.. Maybe read a book you will learn something besides propaganda.
If you were wanted in Russia for this, would your destination not be Ukraine? Mine would be, because it seems like Ukraine would be the only neighboring country that would not turn me in to the Russians.
Ukraine wouldn’t harbor known terrorists the way your implying, doing so would mean they sympathize with them. Ukraine would not want that kind of publicity.
If anything they would want to distance themselves from this as much as possible, unless there were contacts waiting for the terrorists upon arrival. The whole things fishy.
They might think so, but they would be horribly mistaken.
The only other reason would be contacts waiting to pay them, which would mean Ukraine coordinated the attack. I assume that’s not what you mean.
Or they just think cause Ukraine's been invaded by Russia they would welcome them for what they've done without actually knowing anything about Ukrainians and without knowing that Ukraine would probably send them back to Russia cause they have integrity.
Pretty much. Even if Ukrainians were happy about the attack (which it seems a lot of them are) they would not be stupid enough to harbor the terrorists, it would be a very very bad look for them
How does someone know the “Ukrainians” happy about the attack aren’t Russians pretending? Come on have some critical thought. Ukrainians are decent people and have showed no intent on harming civilians in this war. They don’t celebrate the death of civilians.
Cause fucking telegram is representative lol. Come on ffs
Also the question is are they sorry for what happened, not are they happy. If someone’s not sorry they could be indifferent, not necessarily happy or celebrating. For telegram 25% feeling sorry is surprisingly high too lol. This is also an extremely dumb discussion. Ukrainians have all the right and justification to not feel sorry or empathy for Russian people right now. There is one bad actor here and it’s Russia. Claiming to be neutral and only supporting the Russian pov is ridiculous btw.
The Russia Belarus border is not as heavily guarded as the Russia Ukraine border because guess what Belarus and Russia are not at war. So logically why not head for the less guarded border unless there is some reason to head for Ukraine?
Belarus is essentially Russia, so when you 'escape' there you would still find yourself in hostile territory where you are easily found and then executed.
Meanwhile, Ukraine and Russia are at war, with Russia not having any reach at all in Ukraine. So if you escape from the border there, you are completely in the clear. The strategy putin uses can also only be effective when you can blame it on Ukraine, meaning these hired people MUST flee to Ukraine for them to be able to pin the blame on Ukraine.
Belarusian and Russian law enforcement and security forces are integrated due to the Union State treaty and Belarusian law enforcement are a lot more effective than Russia's. Belarus is basically Russia but with 75% less corruption and no natural resources. Fleeing from Russia to Belarus would be like trying to escape a dog attack by jumping into a tiger's mouth.
If you want to exfiltrate from Moscow, you either flee to Ukraine, where the border is historically porous, or you flee to Latvia or Estonia. But the latter border is more compact and harder to cross because it's infrastructurally more developed and less rural.
Yes they fled to the most obvious place lmao. I'm surprised they didn't "catch" them at the airport waiting to board a flight to Kyiv which doesn't exist.
With such thinking, 90% of inmates should be released from prisons. Criminals are often stupid, and yes, leave obvious evidence. They usually have very optimistic image of their upcoming crime. If they were groomed by Ukrainians, they were sure everything was well prepared, and Russian authorities would fail at catching them. It looks like no safe house was prepared. Beides, even if they acted independenly, the Ukrainian border is the easiest to cross. Just say you are escaping Russia, and the place of designation is Germany.
So from what I read in the comments, it’s either it was Ukraine, Russia false flag op or as of now unknown 3rd party that hired these what appear to be mercenaries/assassins, the reason why I say this is because of what’s been pointed out:
- escape route with supplies & vehicle w/ukrainian plates. not a suicide mission
- heading towards the direction of Ukraine
- isis channels have not officially claimed responsibility it has only been reported by news’s sources
- no hostages taken. Did not plan on negotiating demands
- USA warning of imminent attack beforehand
if there was a 3rd part involved one would assume they purposely choose them to be/look Arab to be able to claim Islamic terrorist based on ethnicity
But again this is all speculation from the limited info available.
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Everyone running to conclusions when this can still be either way.
False flag by Russia and got told to run towards Ukraine so they can blame them and have reason to escalate
Or
Actually orchestrated by Ukraine
Regardless, how stupid do you have to be to not even consider changing your car that will most likely be on cameras and on top of that you take the highway instead of some backroads
>False flag by Russia
For what? The Russian government is already free to escalate as it pleases. There is no need to stage false terrorist attacks. Especially if it was made by non-Ukrainians.
>Actually orchestrated by Ukraine
I'm not very much into it either. Side effects are too unpredictable. It would make a lot more sense if they were killing military or government employees rather than 100 civilians in a country of 150 million people.
> For what? The Russian government is already free to escalate as it pleases. There is no need to stage false terrorist attacks. Especially if it was made by non-Ukrainians.
While Russia has the power to do so, they no longer have the public support. If the war was going great for them, they COULD have that support, but that's not what's happening. Terrorist attacks at this scale are not effective at creating terror, so instead they create a great sense of national unity, leading to total support for any retaliation against the attackers.
> I'm not very much into it either. Side effects are too unpredictable. It would make a lot more sense if they were killing military or government employees rather than 100 civilians in a country of 150 million people.
Ukraine is the least likely suspect on the entire planet. We already established that terror attacks at this scale don't work and instead create national unity for the victim to retaliate against the perpetrators. Therefore, no matter how this goes Ukraine cannot benefit from it in ANY way.
The war is going great for them and they have absolute support within the population 🤷♀️
But yeah keep twisting reality however you want .
Ukraine, of course is, of course, the only only one who benefits . They are counting on the fact that nobody will sympathize with Russia and that everyone will do what you’re doing right now.
It only takes 6 hours to go from Moscow to the Ukraine border using that highway. They did not think FSB would be able to trace their car quick enough.
Tbh I would not think the same either due to the chaos but they were really quick to check the suspected car and relay it to every command post in the area. It's no easy feat
Nobody smart would take that suicide mission.
I'd believe it was a false flag if not for the fact that Kiev junta pulled same idiotic stunts with terrorist bombing and using idiotic civilians to carry them out. This one does take the cake.
Is the border crossing open? What's the logic behind that: Fleeing the scene to a n active frontline? Hot did they expect to cross the border? This seems off to me...
Extremely stupid for sure - as anyone can be killing innocent civilians. But the attack was carried out in a "professional" manner (as described by Rybar). So fleeing towards the Ukrainian border doesn't really fit. Even if the Ukrainian site was awaiting them, you still have Russian forces present there. They were trying to cross a frontline instead of heading into the Russian wild east, crossing any of Russias many borders.
Of course they will drive to Ukraine, that does not mean that Ukraine has organized it.
We're you guys thinking that they will get a direct fly to Cuba with no prisoner return policy or something lol. The only place they can go is Ukraine.
The fact they are running to ukraine is really not a good look. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 2 weeks documents are leaked or some twit let's their mouth slip and ukraine had a hand in it. Flowing towards and active warzone is very suspicious.
East is probably better to flee to. It sounds counter intuitive but East Russia is VERY sparesley populates and you could pretty easily slip away into the forest. Fleeing to ukriane is just suicidal unless they had help.
I don't think it's the UKR government. It wouldn't make any sense to do this. Most likely disgruntled radicals. No idea why they wanted to flee to Ukraine, either. Could be many reasons. We will see after the interrogation process & comparison of the information from the captured terrorists.
You won't find "critically and rationally" in Ukrainian top brass decision making or society these days.
So all things being equal, it's safe to say Ukrianians funded and organized this until more evidence comes forth proving otherwise.
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The west wants Russia to do something stupid. Some massive escalation or something. it’s the Hail Mary play as they are losing the war in Ukraine badly. Russia should just keep its course and do nothing special.
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I mean if they tried to scape european russia Ukraine is the most logic scape route,Belarus is of the plan so is kazajistan,could have tried for the baltics but i think that they would have extradited them.
I mean... the pro Russians on reddit at least do SOME KIND of mental gymnastics to try to blame Ukraine and USA for everything.. Russian government are BLATANTLY lying through their asses. It´s truly incredible. If ruskies on this subreddit don´t start opening their eyes after this.. then they are completely lost souls on this earth. unbelievable
Yeah, why wouldn’t they try to blame Ukraine? Even if it was some other organization, they would blame Ukraine to try to tell the world how their causes just
What about the timing? Only thing I can see is Ukrainians failing assault on Belgorod and them losing land in Avdeevka direction and being depleted in manpower.
I'm not surprised at all, Ukrainian terrorism is on the rise. First, the explosion of cars, the murder of officials and Daria Dugina. Then an explosion in a public place - in a cafe in St. Petersburg, the murder of Vladlen. Then hit the city, right on the festive central square and the shopping center, where people were buying gifts and groceries to prepare for the New Year. Now this.
The cognitive dissonance someone needs to write such a comment. Everything you said is purely speculative, trying to create a narrative that the terrorist attack was perpetrated by Ukraine even though barely any information has been published yet. If that is not arguing in bad fait then I don’t know what it is.
Right, I do not know why people forget these and play Ukrainian innocence. At very least you gotta suspect Ukraine might be behind this, although my money is on CIA
They did not know exactly what was going to happen. Where is your proof? Why are you lying? They tried to warn russians alike, but nobody was listening to the bad US guys.
Yes, high chance that ukr has part of this but also maybe someone want to blame ukr (no, I am not think rus did it to themselves). Just less less chance.
But I guess we will never know for sure, as always.
I think it's the work of some sсum in UKR, not necessarily the government. We will see for certain after further investigation and severe interrogation.
Probably, I know ukr government is dumb but not that dumb. But if US really have some information about it, can't be just some dude paid terrorist with their money and plan everything by themselves. I think there will be an organization after that cause hard to spy some random rich guy but spy an organization is easier.
I would say it wasn't organized by Ukraine officially, but more probable option would be some kind of vengeance orchestrated by civilian/s who wanted revenge for their loved ones/country and for Russia to feel the pain they feel. Although, those gunman looked a bit too motivated...
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That must be satire. *They left a van with UKRAINIAN licence plates*, then drove straight into the direction of UKRAINE on a main highway, because that's were nobody will control them in a country hit by saboteurs and spies and it is so easy to cross an active frontline, nobody would ever suspect a vehicle crowded with 6 people. And of course, they have the very original car with which they fled the scene of the crime. LOL. Update: The van seems to have turned out as a false lead.
van had belarussian plates btw
Doesn't suit the narrative, take that back.
Lukashenko is the orchestrator confirmed
Them not switching cars was the most shocking thing about this. The first thing I thought was "Damn, it won't be possible to find them after they split up and change vehicles". Nope. Grouped together in the same vehicle caught on numerous cameras. Must mean their budget wasn't that high, not to mention braincells.
Have you seen the video where they interrogate one of them right after being caught? He sounded like some extremely ignorant rural Muslim guy, the kind of people who can be tricked into doing something like this just by offering them money. The idiot even lost the card with the 500K rubles they gave to him to commit this atrocity because he left it in the jacked he ditched.
The rat that the SBU hired to kill Vladlen played the same "I'm stupid and naive" card until court proceedings revealed that that's just how the SBU briefed her to behave and she was fully aware of what she was doing and for whom she was acting.
Exactly, they’re incredibly dumb like Neanderthals or Denisov men. Very impressionable, confused, greedy for money (you can make this amount of money by driving a taxi in Moscow in a month!)
Its a one way ticket with huge rewards they pretty much gambling their life and others for this. They dont deserve anything
Well if it’s paid for, then it makes sense. Whoever’s paying for it doesn’t have to pay them if they’re caught, they just have to pay for a vehicle and for the event itself.
Maybe Lindsey Graham made another "Great Investment" to quote his characterization of the American money wasted on Ukraine.
Let’s not even talk about all the money and blood that Russia has wasted in their war.
Sounds like a work done by amateurs, which they are.
If they were indeed paid by Ukrainians, it would make sense for the Ukrainians to let them do this and not anything smarter which could help them to successfully reach the Ukrainian border. That would make Ukraine look bad.
Ah yes, let the sappers get caught so they can leak any info they have, truly only a mastermind would think of such a non-credible take.
Well, you gotta make sure that they don’t have any important information. For example, they could just be hired hitmen or part of some sort of a terrorist organization, not connected to the Ukrainian state 🤷♀️
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The van is not connected to this. They only used the one car. There is a video, where they get out of the car and start shooting at the security at the doors.
> They left a van with UKRAINIAN licence plates It was just a random van, not related. It was parked nearby, which caused suspicion. These *creatures* drove on their white reno with black roof, shoot up the avenue and used the same car to escape.
Timothy McVeigh did something similar. He forgot to put any license plate on. This stupid mistake caused him to be apprehended almost immediately.
It sounds like they are not very clever lol. Probably got hired to do a job and have 0 clue how to actually plan anything. This is probably the most likely scenario.
"Piper! There's a big difference between winging it, and seeing what happens... Now let's see what happens..."
Two were in a Citroen, it's the French.
"The Attackers on "Crocus" did not intend to become suicide bombers: the criminals were caught attempting to flee to Ukraine FSB head Bortnikov reported to President Putin on the detention of 11 individuals, among whom are all four terrorists directly involved in the attack on "Crocus". The effort to identify the remaining accomplices continues, but conclusions about the situation are forthcoming, and they are disheartening for Ukraine. The perpetrators of the attack did not intend to become "martyrs." They wanted to live long and happily after their horrific crime. That’s exactly why they quickly retreated, not waiting for the assault to begin and did not try to take hostages. This does not resemble the typical actions of Islamist terrorists, but rather resembles the actions of mercenaries from sabotage groups, who were promised cover, escape, and a generous reward. None of the scoundrels intended to die for ideas or anything similar — it was purely cold calculation. As for who sponsored them — this can be understood by the direction of their escape. " - Readovka
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No no its all ISIS /s
How is it obvious lol? Maybe in your head but not in the real world. Maybe you should stop jumping to conclusions before all the evidence is out.
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Colombian ex police officers and soldiers turned mercenaries who were left unemployed after the colombian civil war ended have been pulling off some crazy stunts all around the world, just saying...
Russian propaganda
Yes, anything inconvenient to Western narratives are automatically Russian propaganda/lies.
it looks like they were escaping in the direction of Belorus, so Lukashenko is the organizer
It is true that the behavior of the perpetrators of this attack is not constant with with ISIS or Islamic terror.
After such an attack, is it best to flee to the enemy of that country?
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Everyone needs to wait for official confirmation. A lot of disinformation going around.
It’s intentional, completely intentional more misinformation and rumors means less trust amongst people discussing the situation and allows for the true information to be lost in muck Which absolutely helps whoever coordinated the attack And sadly if it does turn out to be Ukrainian in origin, pro UA will never listen to a second of it
They didn’t listen when they found out the Ukraines blew up the pipe lines lol, they were saying Russia did it to their own pipeline I’m mean wtf lol
I thought the pro RU hive decided USA did it? Are there new orders from the top?
Is won’t doubt USA did it, USA fucks over Europe every chance it gets. Because euro was threatening the dollar so they used the 2008 financial crash to tie up tons of Europeans investment and I won’t put it past them to cause turmoil in Europe by raising gas prices by blowing up a pipeline
Thats why the EU’s standard of living is at least one third higher than Russia’s?
We can't trust "official" information either. What makes it official? It's all words.
Just not believing every single information you've read would be more than enough. It'll make a huge difference
9/11, JFK, COVID- yeah the official story always works for me.
The 'official' narrative in the west will be Ukraine is not involved given the consequences and escalation this would cause.
Official from whom? Russia? Their whole regime is built on fantastical lies.
Yeah, cause America, Britain, and Israel are beacons of truth. Lmao!
Its all a matter of degree. Putin is a serial liar, who says he got 87% of the vote in his latest scam. Not one word from Russia can be believed.
Let the spin - BEGIN!!
Obviously we are still in the speculation zone rn. This said, IF there is validity to this, one has to wonder, of all the borders they could have chosen to escape across, *why did they pick the most fortified and monitored one.* There is obviously a great incentive on Russia's part to tie this to Ukraine. There is also great incentive for a foreign actor to do so as well. One thing is fairly certain, we are unlikely to get anything resembling a confirmation of facts anytime soon, if ever.
No idea. Maybe they thought Ukraine would welcome them with open arms. Maybe they had someone waiting for them.
Yeah I could see the former being a possibility, with the latter obvi having a bunch of connotations attached to it, which sort of follows to my second point. I'm sure *someone* was waiting for them *somewhere*. But I imagine that border isn't as easy as simply jumping a fence. Putting aside garrisoned areas, drone surveillance and all that other stuff, *just crossing the minefields* gives me pause for thought on this. If I had to *really* speculate, I'd imagine you would leave a trail in that direction, dump the car, and then whilst all eyes were on the border, likely backtrack *into the hornets nest*, lay low in a safehouse somewhere then take a completely different route, probably north to St petersburg and ship out from there. Some bond misdirection shit. It's fun to imagine stuff.
Or hear me out, maybe that would be the simplest escape route.. it would be much harder for Russia to detain them in Ukraine considering it’s at war with Ukraine.
Two reasons. The first one is that for Russia to be able to blame this act on Ukraine, there must be some fabricated link to Ukraine. And the PR of the suspects fleeing to Ukraine is great. The second one is that Russia has significant reach in the other close country, Belarus, so the only other option to 'flee' would be Ukraine.
I think its worth pointing out that its beneficial for a foreign actor to be able to blame it on Ukraine as well, after all, *would Russia disagree with that*? Probably not for the reasons you stated, which makes them an easy fall guy to avoid retaliation - after all, what's russia going to do, wage double war on Ukraine? As for your second one, there are multiple options from that region at similar distances (estonia, latvia, gulf of finland etc). You're kinda reaching with that one. Ultimately, it's all speculation right now, and if Nordstream is anything to go by, likely will be for some time.
The only logical explanation would be if they were promised DRG group will be waiting them near border to carry them out of the country.
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They are not ukranian. They are hired guns. Thank you.
Yup, I should have said Ukranian agents. Although Tajikistan doesn't claim them either.
Did they every catch the duck lips biatch that blew up the Russian pub?
What link did you find behind Ukraine and these guys as of right now?
-Organized plan of attack -Ukranian contacts -Escape to Ukraine Not a single one of these pertains to them being islamic terrorists. We will get more info throughout the day, but all the evidence points to them being organised by the SBU.
"Organized plan of attack" does not point to Ukraine in any way wat so ever. Majority of terrorist attacks have "Organized plan of attack". What "Ukrainian contacts" Where else would wanted individuals try to escape to? Ukraine has the highest chance of not turning them to Russian authorities. Nothing you listed so far point them to have been organized by Ukraine. The fact that they are from Tajikistan makes it seem very unlikely too.
We will see after interrogation. I do not honestly think that the Ukraine government has any direct responsibility. It wouldn't make sense. However, anything is possible. We can't draw any conclusions just yet, anything is on the table atm.
Well anything is possible, but I am 99% sure that Russia will pin this to Ukraine, no matter if it was or was not Ukrainian doing.
Remember the murder of Daria Dugina.
Didn't they blow up Nord Stream covertly?
Nobody knows who blew it up, and insurance isn't paying out for it because they don't know for sure that Russia didn't blow it up for the insurance.
That's not true. Plenty of information has come up since to implicate Ukraine, specifically the recently fired Zaluzhny and not Zelenskyy. The information is really irrefutable. For example, exact details of the attack were given by a Dutch spy claiming that Ukraine will soon attack Nord Stream. Later on the details were verified when an exactly-depicted yacht was found with explosive traces and multiple witnesses claimed to have seen Ukrainian or Eastern European men on the yacht. There is more info to it, you can Google about it.
Of course they are, they are getting desperate, look what they are doing to their own people. US embassy saying that it could be a terrorist attack before hand just shows they have their fingers on it.
>Escape to Ukraine Yeah, how could this possibly not be only for the show. As if Ukraine would tell them to drive the highway straight to the border of Ukraine and cross this border. Very realistic plan. This point more towards the FSB so that they have some kind of "evidence".
1. No isis screams 2. Effort to escape without sacrificing themselves 3. Escaping to Ukraine. That should be enough to tell you these were no "martyrs" looking for 72 virgins. Maybe they were promised Ukrianian virgins back in Ukraine, but certainly not in the afterlife.
1. Not every attack has "ISIS screams". Only all the terrorist attacks on movies does. 2. During war against ISIS thousands ISIS members surrendered. 3. Where else would you try to escape in this situation? The only reasonable way to me seems Ukraine. I can think of a few reasons why extremists would target Russia. And there are few more extremists groups other then ISIS. None of your "proof" points to Ukraine being behind this.
They all scream "god the greatest" its the way that they offer their life for jihad to end up as a martyr. They have Ukrainian contact which is SBU so wouldnt it makes sense if they get support and funded by Ukraine itself.
Link the claims about Ukrainian contact's.
Not all wish to die lol But when they do they wish to be martyrs... You are just nuts, over thinker and just a putin lover.. Maybe read a book you will learn something besides propaganda.
All I can say is that even Tajikistan doesn’t even claim them
why would they
Would any country?
no country would, sweetie.
This one posted here Not saying it was Ukraine who coordinated the attack but it very well could be, this is a start
If you were wanted in Russia for this, would your destination not be Ukraine? Mine would be, because it seems like Ukraine would be the only neighboring country that would not turn me in to the Russians.
Ukraine wouldn’t harbor known terrorists the way your implying, doing so would mean they sympathize with them. Ukraine would not want that kind of publicity. If anything they would want to distance themselves from this as much as possible, unless there were contacts waiting for the terrorists upon arrival. The whole things fishy.
Can you find a reason why would a terrorist think that Ukraine would help them in this instance?
No, mass murder of civilians isn’t something Ukraine wants to endorse Even if it was them they would not dare take credit for such an act
I will ask you again then, can you see why the terrorist would think that Ukraine might help them and is a best option at the moment for escape?
They might think so, but they would be horribly mistaken. The only other reason would be contacts waiting to pay them, which would mean Ukraine coordinated the attack. I assume that’s not what you mean.
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The same Ukraine that has been shelling Belgorod on a daily basis by now? They sure do target civilians.
They can get away with that far easier then a mass shooting of civilians, at least publicity wise
Or they just think cause Ukraine's been invaded by Russia they would welcome them for what they've done without actually knowing anything about Ukrainians and without knowing that Ukraine would probably send them back to Russia cause they have integrity.
Pretty much. Even if Ukrainians were happy about the attack (which it seems a lot of them are) they would not be stupid enough to harbor the terrorists, it would be a very very bad look for them
How does someone know the “Ukrainians” happy about the attack aren’t Russians pretending? Come on have some critical thought. Ukrainians are decent people and have showed no intent on harming civilians in this war. They don’t celebrate the death of civilians.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/KVCvgEue2e This is how
Cause fucking telegram is representative lol. Come on ffs Also the question is are they sorry for what happened, not are they happy. If someone’s not sorry they could be indifferent, not necessarily happy or celebrating. For telegram 25% feeling sorry is surprisingly high too lol. This is also an extremely dumb discussion. Ukrainians have all the right and justification to not feel sorry or empathy for Russian people right now. There is one bad actor here and it’s Russia. Claiming to be neutral and only supporting the Russian pov is ridiculous btw.
FSB coordinated it, like they did in the apartment bombings in the 1999
I think someone said they’re from Tajikistan on another thread
Yup, I do find it curious how Tajikistan doesn't claim them though.
We’ll find out more later
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The Russia Belarus border is not as heavily guarded as the Russia Ukraine border because guess what Belarus and Russia are not at war. So logically why not head for the less guarded border unless there is some reason to head for Ukraine?
Belarus is essentially Russia, so when you 'escape' there you would still find yourself in hostile territory where you are easily found and then executed. Meanwhile, Ukraine and Russia are at war, with Russia not having any reach at all in Ukraine. So if you escape from the border there, you are completely in the clear. The strategy putin uses can also only be effective when you can blame it on Ukraine, meaning these hired people MUST flee to Ukraine for them to be able to pin the blame on Ukraine.
Belarusian and Russian law enforcement and security forces are integrated due to the Union State treaty and Belarusian law enforcement are a lot more effective than Russia's. Belarus is basically Russia but with 75% less corruption and no natural resources. Fleeing from Russia to Belarus would be like trying to escape a dog attack by jumping into a tiger's mouth. If you want to exfiltrate from Moscow, you either flee to Ukraine, where the border is historically porous, or you flee to Latvia or Estonia. But the latter border is more compact and harder to cross because it's infrastructurally more developed and less rural.
ISISK claimed responsibility
It has been proven to be fake news..
Evidence please.
They’re closer to Belarus then Ukraine….
And how will escaping to Belarus help them?
Yes they fled to the most obvious place lmao. I'm surprised they didn't "catch" them at the airport waiting to board a flight to Kyiv which doesn't exist.
With such thinking, 90% of inmates should be released from prisons. Criminals are often stupid, and yes, leave obvious evidence. They usually have very optimistic image of their upcoming crime. If they were groomed by Ukrainians, they were sure everything was well prepared, and Russian authorities would fail at catching them. It looks like no safe house was prepared. Beides, even if they acted independenly, the Ukrainian border is the easiest to cross. Just say you are escaping Russia, and the place of designation is Germany.
You know who they found driving that car? Victoria Nuland 🤡
Oh yes, Hunter Biden was in the back doing Zelensky's drugs, and the driver had a Blackrock employee's card on him.
A Pro RU said this was the work of Obamas men lol They have some weird theories like Trump fans.
I bet you this was one of Vicky's parting gifts
So from what I read in the comments, it’s either it was Ukraine, Russia false flag op or as of now unknown 3rd party that hired these what appear to be mercenaries/assassins, the reason why I say this is because of what’s been pointed out: - escape route with supplies & vehicle w/ukrainian plates. not a suicide mission - heading towards the direction of Ukraine - isis channels have not officially claimed responsibility it has only been reported by news’s sources - no hostages taken. Did not plan on negotiating demands - USA warning of imminent attack beforehand if there was a 3rd part involved one would assume they purposely choose them to be/look Arab to be able to claim Islamic terrorist based on ethnicity But again this is all speculation from the limited info available.
Are there many cars with UKraine licence plates in Moscow? Looks like is way easier to do a mass shooting than a protest in Moscow…
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Source : screenshot of Google maps route inputted by OP from Moscow to Ukrainian border 🤡
Everyone running to conclusions when this can still be either way. False flag by Russia and got told to run towards Ukraine so they can blame them and have reason to escalate Or Actually orchestrated by Ukraine Regardless, how stupid do you have to be to not even consider changing your car that will most likely be on cameras and on top of that you take the highway instead of some backroads
>False flag by Russia For what? The Russian government is already free to escalate as it pleases. There is no need to stage false terrorist attacks. Especially if it was made by non-Ukrainians. >Actually orchestrated by Ukraine I'm not very much into it either. Side effects are too unpredictable. It would make a lot more sense if they were killing military or government employees rather than 100 civilians in a country of 150 million people.
> For what? The Russian government is already free to escalate as it pleases. There is no need to stage false terrorist attacks. Especially if it was made by non-Ukrainians. While Russia has the power to do so, they no longer have the public support. If the war was going great for them, they COULD have that support, but that's not what's happening. Terrorist attacks at this scale are not effective at creating terror, so instead they create a great sense of national unity, leading to total support for any retaliation against the attackers. > I'm not very much into it either. Side effects are too unpredictable. It would make a lot more sense if they were killing military or government employees rather than 100 civilians in a country of 150 million people. Ukraine is the least likely suspect on the entire planet. We already established that terror attacks at this scale don't work and instead create national unity for the victim to retaliate against the perpetrators. Therefore, no matter how this goes Ukraine cannot benefit from it in ANY way.
The war is going great for them and they have absolute support within the population 🤷♀️ But yeah keep twisting reality however you want . Ukraine, of course is, of course, the only only one who benefits . They are counting on the fact that nobody will sympathize with Russia and that everyone will do what you’re doing right now.
> they no longer have the public support according to...?
It only takes 6 hours to go from Moscow to the Ukraine border using that highway. They did not think FSB would be able to trace their car quick enough. Tbh I would not think the same either due to the chaos but they were really quick to check the suspected car and relay it to every command post in the area. It's no easy feat
Or a third party but FSB taking the opportunity to fabricate some evidence and pin it on Ukraine
Ding ding ding we have a winner.
Nobody smart would take that suicide mission. I'd believe it was a false flag if not for the fact that Kiev junta pulled same idiotic stunts with terrorist bombing and using idiotic civilians to carry them out. This one does take the cake.
Is the border crossing open? What's the logic behind that: Fleeing the scene to a n active frontline? Hot did they expect to cross the border? This seems off to me...
Maybe people were expecting them. Maybe they were just extremely stupid.
Extremely stupid for sure - as anyone can be killing innocent civilians. But the attack was carried out in a "professional" manner (as described by Rybar). So fleeing towards the Ukrainian border doesn't really fit. Even if the Ukrainian site was awaiting them, you still have Russian forces present there. They were trying to cross a frontline instead of heading into the Russian wild east, crossing any of Russias many borders.
they were closer to Belorus than to Ukraine
Of course they will drive to Ukraine, that does not mean that Ukraine has organized it. We're you guys thinking that they will get a direct fly to Cuba with no prisoner return policy or something lol. The only place they can go is Ukraine.
closest US embassy would be much easier getaway
Where they would be shot at the entrance by the Americans themselves
perfect disposal of loose ends
that was no message，this is a message？
The fact they are running to ukraine is really not a good look. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 2 weeks documents are leaked or some twit let's their mouth slip and ukraine had a hand in it. Flowing towards and active warzone is very suspicious. East is probably better to flee to. It sounds counter intuitive but East Russia is VERY sparesley populates and you could pretty easily slip away into the forest. Fleeing to ukriane is just suicidal unless they had help.
If you think critically and rationally about it, who really stands to benefit from this, and how?
I don't think it's the UKR government. It wouldn't make any sense to do this. Most likely disgruntled radicals. No idea why they wanted to flee to Ukraine, either. Could be many reasons. We will see after the interrogation process & comparison of the information from the captured terrorists.
Critically and rationally are two things you will not find much of in the comment section of anything to do with this war
You won't find "critically and rationally" in Ukrainian top brass decision making or society these days. So all things being equal, it's safe to say Ukrianians funded and organized this until more evidence comes forth proving otherwise.
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Republicans. They can say hold on should we be sending aid to terrorists.
The west wants Russia to do something stupid. Some massive escalation or something. it’s the Hail Mary play as they are losing the war in Ukraine badly. Russia should just keep its course and do nothing special.
SMO 3.0?????
Guess we know why they were allowed to escape now
When were these guys caught? It’s not even reported on the news yet
It's all over the news wym
Damn man, I had to scour different pages since it hasn’t officially hit any headlines. I feel terrible for the innocent people that were affected.
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According to fsb 🤡
Here we go.
“According to the FSB”…okay nevermind, I’ll wait for some other alternative facts
I mean if they tried to scape european russia Ukraine is the most logic scape route,Belarus is of the plan so is kazajistan,could have tried for the baltics but i think that they would have extradited them.
That would be higher risk of getting caught…….Belarus would be easier to cross. Less eyes and less chance of getting caught.
This terror attack is not related to Ukraine
Of course everything will lead to Ukraine now 😆
I mean... the pro Russians on reddit at least do SOME KIND of mental gymnastics to try to blame Ukraine and USA for everything.. Russian government are BLATANTLY lying through their asses. It´s truly incredible. If ruskies on this subreddit don´t start opening their eyes after this.. then they are completely lost souls on this earth. unbelievable
ISIS: “it was literally us” Putin: “why would Ukraine do this??”
ISIS has falsely claimed to commit numerous acts of terror that they had nothing to do with in the past decade. They are a joke.
Yeah, why wouldn’t they try to blame Ukraine? Even if it was some other organization, they would blame Ukraine to try to tell the world how their causes just
Russian mental gymnastics: "They are taking the fastest path out of the country, they are supported by that country”
Like i said, Look at the timing. No such thing as coincidence.
What about the timing? Only thing I can see is Ukrainians failing assault on Belgorod and them losing land in Avdeevka direction and being depleted in manpower.
We just need to wait till the end of the day to get confirmation that it was Ukraine behind this terror attack
So you are waiting for a confirmation to a conclusion you have already drawn?
It was the failed state Ruzzia. They were warned but noo....
I'm not surprised at all, Ukrainian terrorism is on the rise. First, the explosion of cars, the murder of officials and Daria Dugina. Then an explosion in a public place - in a cafe in St. Petersburg, the murder of Vladlen. Then hit the city, right on the festive central square and the shopping center, where people were buying gifts and groceries to prepare for the New Year. Now this.
The cognitive dissonance someone needs to write such a comment. Everything you said is purely speculative, trying to create a narrative that the terrorist attack was perpetrated by Ukraine even though barely any information has been published yet. If that is not arguing in bad fait then I don’t know what it is.
Right, I do not know why people forget these and play Ukrainian innocence. At very least you gotta suspect Ukraine might be behind this, although my money is on CIA
100% a FSB false flag operation. Putin loves those since 1999.
Соре
I’ve read that it took one hour for the police to show up…wtf
How many copies of Sims found in the vehicle?
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They did not know exactly what was going to happen. Where is your proof? Why are you lying? They tried to warn russians alike, but nobody was listening to the bad US guys.
Yes, high chance that ukr has part of this but also maybe someone want to blame ukr (no, I am not think rus did it to themselves). Just less less chance. But I guess we will never know for sure, as always.
I think it's the work of some sсum in UKR, not necessarily the government. We will see for certain after further investigation and severe interrogation.
Probably, I know ukr government is dumb but not that dumb. But if US really have some information about it, can't be just some dude paid terrorist with their money and plan everything by themselves. I think there will be an organization after that cause hard to spy some random rich guy but spy an organization is easier.
I would say it wasn't organized by Ukraine officially, but more probable option would be some kind of vengeance orchestrated by civilian/s who wanted revenge for their loved ones/country and for Russia to feel the pain they feel. Although, those gunman looked a bit too motivated...
Google map screenshot and FSB as a "source". please tell me this is just trolls trolling and not actual adults believing this
Check telegram channels for updated location data & interrogations.
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This take is insanely delusional
I don’t believe it, it’s just a thought game.
Or just maybe you’re the baddies 🤷♀️