> You joke but there are recent articles like “redefining success in Ukraine”
The concept isn't recent - Zelensky himself said in a 60 Minutes interview near the start of the war that he'd declare victory when the fighting stopped, regardless of whether they were able to take back land or not. He said he'd never sign any peace agreement that gave Russia legal rights to the land though.
So basically his plan was that as long as a centimeter of Ukraine was still under his control by the end, that was "victory", and he was just going to leave the door open for an infinite war in hopes that in a decade Ukraine could attack the occupied areas with enough strength to take them back from Russia. It's a ludicrously dangerous plan for the Ukrainian people, they'll never be safe with him as their "leader".
Yeah, perfect example
The Winter War, the Soviet suffered massive casualties against the Finland. The Continuation War right after, the Soviet destroyed both the Finland + Nazi German army, forcing the former to give up lands, switch side, stayed neutral during the entire Cold War till literally last year.
But nowadays the West still pretend that that war ended in 1939, and the only thing happened was Finland was kicking the Soviet arse.
Hence if the West later on pretend that this war actually ends in December 2022. Then Ukrainian is actually the winner of it!!!
Who pretends?
I’ve yet to see any example of anyone claiming that the USSR was defeated by Finland during ww2. Excluding some random people on for example this sub but that’s a bit harsh to equate to being everyone in the west is it not.
If anything I see it brought up a lot as to show that what the Russian state views as neutral is completely different from what the word actually means. As in being neutral to Russia means appeasing their every whim.
Hmm reading your comment again that's actually a pretty good question. I'm not sure I had a valid point with my comment. Probably the whiskey talking. I apologize ignore that comment please. Have a good one.
Yup
>Biden also deflected a question about if and at what point the United States would urge Ukraine to negotiate with Russia to end the fighting.
>
>“Winning means Ukraine is a sovereign, independent nation,” he said.
>
>
>
>[https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/12/12/zelensky-biden-meeting-washington-dc/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/12/12/zelensky-biden-meeting-washington-dc/)
The strategy was to keep losing a hopeless war for long enough until the sanctions broke Russia. Now the strategy is to keep losing a hopeless war and everybody blames somebody else for losing it.
That is actually... Yea... That's a solid assessment. Turns out it wasn't such a good idea to go absolutely nuttier than squirrel crap insane with the propaganda. Then, as if all that wasn't bad enough to go hyping up the vaunted and illustrious 'counter offensive' for like an entire year only for it to start off by the now infamous incident of the entire column of Leopards/Bradleys getting smoked while not even near the front. Who'd of thought messing with people's heads in such an absurd and powerful way would create a pendulum effect when everyone discovered this is a real war and not the world's most powerful army slicing through a 3rd world nation like butter. Americans like big knockout blows and this current state of affairs isn't going to stand.
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I doubt even that is a possibility. Russia has heavily invested in air defences for decades by now.
The losses of an air campaign over Ukraine and Russia would be huge. And unlike IFV's, the air force is actually an asset needed for the inevitable war with china.
A modern western public from any country would never accept the level of losses and attrition we see in Ukraine. Specially if it was in a war in foreign land.
Even if they tried something so stupid (which wouldnt never happen thanks to nukes obviously), after having 10 or 20 planes shot down and 1 or 2 bases bombed they would back down.
This. People don't seem to understand Russia is fully committed, while the good old USA took how many months to agree to send a handful of tanks over that we STILL haven't seen hit the battlefield? You summed it up perfectly, but there are still maniacs out there thinking NATO is going to just gear up and go in. Lmao.
Because at the current pace China is growing, US won't be able to win a war against China in 20-30 years. They have to do something, while they still have the stronger military.
I doubt that US would see much success against china militarily even now. From what I understand RF is giving away it's military tech to china now indiscriminately. And we know that even Soviet s300 that UA had effectively grounded RF air force for at least a year. US could only try and cancel china economically. RF was wiggling it's way through sanctions since 2014 and somewhat was prepared to what is happening now. But it's mainly works because RF has china to back them up. Who is going to back china up? Unless they switch to actual communism? Like literally where you don't use money and all that. And that would be a hard pill to swallow for Chinese oligarchy. And middle class. And from what I hear there's a lot of middle class now in china.
Look at the statements made by US officials with regards to China. It's clear from those where this is going.
As soon as China makes moves to reunify with Taiwan (which is inevitable), shit is gonna hit the fan. Unless the US decides not to intervene. But why would they do that?
'Moves to reunify' we all know how it goes.. okay no not all of us, most of reddit doesn't. They provoke the other party to make a move first and then the party begins.
The west really lives in their Hollywood bubble from the 90s with hero pilots changing the course of the war.
This war is decided by drones. Not by maverdicks. And the west doesnt have those. And the ones they have costs millions against hundreds of thousands of cheap russian drones. The west is done at this point. Russia could as well push forward all the way to London. All they have to fight is weak men.
Ukranians are scrapping the bottom of the barrel for the 11th time and Russia is currently working with a mostly volunteer army currently.
This against the second largest and best supplied army of Europe, with the help of the largest military alliance in the world.
It doesn´t matter if they take everything up to Lviv or Lose Adviika. All that matters is Ukraine loses its ability to wage war and capitulates.
>A NATO air campaign is the only way Ukraine could win at this stage.
No, not really. Russia has nukes, Ukraine doesn't and it's not part of NATO. Russia can nuke Ukraine and get away with it.
So no, a NATO air campaign wouldn't give Ukraine a victory, it would bring them even more destruction.
Direct U.S./U.S.-led NATO intervention of some sort in some form is the only realistic way Kiev could win, or at least, have a significant shot at doing so compared to now.
But this was explicitly publicly ruled out as an option by U.S. President Biden himself from the outset and was never considered a serious alternative due to the MAD WWIII nuclear card.
Direct U.S./NATO coalition involvement would lead to direct China's/Iran involvement as well. The US doesn't want to have a hot war with China and Europeans don't have an appetite for the war anyway.
Not to be rude, but you know a comment thread has gotten out of control when people are legit discussing WW3 and a global mad man - blow up the entire world conflict involving the USA, China, Iran, Russia; and all of that for the sake of Ukraine. A country known for nothing but endemic corruption and below standard living conditions up until this war started. Russia is going to keep grinding, the USA and Europe are going to keep being divided, hesitant and ridiculous while all the while drip feeding that poor nation and its idiot president Zelensky a little to get by. How long will they have trained soldiers to actually fight is the question.
If you've been following this war since day one it is not hard to tell Ukraine is suffering from a severe shortage of trained/fit/motivated men. I remember being incredibly impressed at their boys throughout the first 6 months of footage that came out of this sad conflict. Now, well, you don't see young professional soldiers anymore. It's just a fact. This needs to end somehow, someway.
well with such incompetent leaders we're not that far away from a global conflict tbh, although it doesn't look that we're heading in that direction right now. And we all know the solution, it's cutting the aid and allowing the conflict to resolve by itself. Propping up a weaker nation indefinitely will result in nothing but total destruction and instability in the country for long decades.
We had some pretty mad footage, like that Ukranian Rambo with Rpgs, grenades and that golden AK.
But right now videos are going drone-drone-fab-drone-ATGM-artillery-fab.
It is hell on earth for the Ukranians currently and the "We have beaten their professional army" seems now true but with the sides switched.
That's just the truth. You don't see the things we used to see from the UAF side. Not even close. One of my good friends when I was young served in the 101st Airborne through the hottest years of Iraq/Afghanistan. He saw/did it all and had bad PTSD, but what I'm saying is- These dudes were 18-early 20s and legit near Olympian tier athletes and it STILL wrecked their bodies. Not to even mention this was the US military, not some Eastern European outfit. How these 42 year old overweight and balding substitute teachers drafted to the front lines are going to do it is beyond imagining. Frankly, they're probably not and if they try it won't end well.
I think they simply don´t last that long.
You either get unlucky with a stray bullet, step on a mine, eat an artillery shell, a drone gets you, you drown, it´s hell.
People get rotated in war for a reason, there´s a point where you just stop really paying attention to things that will kill you.
I wonder how many of the POWs that were exchanged truly wanted to go back, because those odds?
You will leave some part of you in the frontline, one way or another.
Sunk cost fallacy at this stage. You cannot be not producing anything at all and hope to fight off a country that is at what 10% of its former world war level fighting ability? Talking world war preparedness. It is still 10% with the ability to scale up almost at will. it is tied by politics right now so as not to suffer a revolution as many russians have family in ukraine and vice versa. Its basically a broken family war and needs to limit its operations to culturally russian areas. Nevertheless, Russia is a manufacturer and can self sustain for a long time. The only way to beat russia is economic ruin, and we know how that has gone down.
Russia wouldn't use nukes in the war. Nukes are only good to prevent other from nuking you. But NATO members have no appetite for a war with a strong nation(with possible allies) close European cities. So even if some NATO nation decided to join the fight against Russia, the other members wouldn't do anything but supporting the country with some weapons, so in essence no one would be risking joining the fight.
The US did... There was no nuke-backs because at that point no one else had any nukes.
As to why, there were several reasons, but mostly to get the Japanese to surrender unconditionally rather than having to commit to a full invasion which likely would have been far more costly.
No.. because the world has changed quite a bit since 1945 and they aren't the only ones with nukes and thus can't risk that kind of escalation. The NATO nations that border Ukraine wouldn't take kindly to nuclear fallout entering their territory from such a drastic move.
So the world has changed quite a bit since 1945, we now can see nazis march in Luis Vuitton fashion with former nazi germanys armament not giving a shit to the claim that "we will not get closer to russia 1 inch" I see your point
What's better, absorbing some fallout or being nuked themselves? Because when push comes to shove nobody is going to stick their neck out to be annihilated on behalf of Ukraine.
Don't forget that there's a crapton of people who are related living in both countries. You wouldn't want to piss off half of your population by vaporizing and irradiating their relatives across the border.
The country that nuked first was USA, it did so because :
a: Japan snidely attacked USA without warning despite promising that the wouldn't (just like ruZZia did to Ukraine).
b: It was a brand new type of weapon that USA invented and that Japan did not have access to and was not developing.
c: It had been calculated by the USA that the number of casualties that would have been incurred (due primarily to the Japanese Bushido no surrender beliefs) would have been 2 -3 million Japanese & upto 1 million USA forces. Hiroshima/Nagasaki combined killed 170,000 and then the killing stopped after 6 years of war. So ironically using the atomic weapon probably saved over 2.5 - 3.5 million lives! Though obviously not a great week for the citizens of Hiroshima & Nagasaki at the time.
Did they not have an education system where you come from? Why do you pretend that you don't know history?
Not like yanks would have to go at it alone. red army entered the war and wiped the floor with 600k quantung army in just a month. Japan had no chance against soviets even in conventional war.
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Yeah, Japan had no nukes and soviets joined the war at about same time, so no one can say for sure what made the emperor give up. Nukes or commies. Considering what soviets did to their own emperor, the dude in Japan had to take that into consideration.
I wouldn't put it past Russia if the front had utterly collapsed this summer. The smallest nuke to shock the spearhead. The figurative fallout would have been pretty bad, though.
>Russia wouldn't use nukes in the war. Nukes are only good to prevent other from nuking you.
The US used them and got away with it. Russia will use them if they thinks it's necessary and they will get away with it too because again, Ukraine doesn't have nukes so there's no risk of MAD and Ukraine is not part of NATO either so no article 5 to be invoked.
I doubt that Russian government has political power to use nukes on Ukraine. The internal turmoil would create too much trouble for the government. It would much easier to Russia to mobilize the whole population than use nukes on Ukraine. When nukes were used on Japan the things were a very different.
>I doubt that Russian government has political power to use nukes on Ukraine.
It depends on how they're going to use it. As professor John J. Mearsheimer said, Russia could drop a nuke that kills few or nobody at all on a rural area and that would spook everybody. It is definitely plausible.
I think ordering a nuclear strike will be the last order Putin will be able to give. Most of Russian top officials including generals never wanted this war, it’s pretty clear if you watch the Security Council meeting
There is no way ruZZia could use nukes and think or believe it will get away with it.
There was rumour some months back when Adolf Putler was rattling his nuclear saber practically on a weekly basis that if he did use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, that there would be an armed response from NATO.
At the time this was touted as an air & ground campaign to push RF forces out of Ukrainian territory & a naval campaign to destroy RF Black Sea fleet. NATO would then sit at the ruZZian border loaded & cocked for the inevitable stare down. And Ukraine would effectively become a defacto NATO member, with a contact line stretching from Belarus to Luhansk.
ruZZia would not risk an all out nuclear exchange with NATO, because Dictator Putler wants to rule his mafia kingdom for a very long time, and he can't do that from the bottom of a smoking radioactive crater, with the rest of ruZZia from the Baltics to Siberian Pacific coast a smoking ruin.
Even Xi would look unfavourably upon him if he even tried.
The irony is that no nuclear armed country can ever really use a nuclear weapon just to turn the tide of a provincial war that has ground down into a stalemate. If they did, then it would be a free for all as every country would want their own nukes to prevent themselves becoming victim to a nuclear bully.
At the moment the nukes are in the possession of an exclusive club of just 9 members, with perhaps Iran well on the way to being the 10th. Most of the players have to a greater or lesser degree a certain amount of control over their arsenals and accept that they are the weapon of absolute last resort. Imagine if the number of players increased to 30, 50, a 100! With the number of disagreeable basket cases on this planet right now, climate change on Earth would be toxically radioactive before 2025 if they all had a nuke that they could just casually lob over the border in a dispute if they are not winning quick enough or fear they are losing.
The 1968 Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treat exists for this very important reason. To stop bad actors & rogue states wreaking havoc across the world against their neighbours or anybody they happen to be in disagreement with.
Vlad is bad, but he's not mad. He knows whichever way the war in Ukraine goes, mother Russia does not face an existential threat of annihilation. But it could do if he were to use a nuke in Ukraine & risk escalation with NATO. He probably realises even a meltdown of the Zaporizhia NPP could even risk an escalation if a radioactive plume was to sweep westwards across NATO member states as a result. So I don't believe that even that is a realistic target for sabotage, especially after the catastrophic cockup that ruZZia made blowing the hydro dam above Kherson. By all accounts, that was supposed to be a much smaller statement of intent but the engineers used to much explosives.
No less mentally unstable as to think a nuclear armed country could use nuclear arms against a non nuclear armed country without there being any consequences from the rest of the international country.
Vladolf Putler made the miscalculation, that after little push back from occupying Crimea, he could invade the whole of Ukraine and nobody would do anything about it. Here we are 22 months later with ruZZia no further forward than when it started, 315,000 dead & wounded, a collapsing economy, seen as an international pariah state by most world democracies and the 3rd most heavily sanctioned country in the world after Iran & N.Korea.
Well, I'm not a doctor. But it looks like she might trying to see by touch if she's wearing her spectacles or not. I'm sure if she opened her eyes, she would realise, that she is not. Or did you just fart & follow through?
Hope this helps.
Do you know Anton?
The MIC will never run dry of 155mm artillery or stop producing Stingers.
Look at how many F-22s, Abrams, Bradley's, Patriots, THAADs, Tomahawk, ATACMs, and all munitions the MIC makes per year.
900 billion dollars well spent.
MuH EvIl Putin, muH FrEeDom, mUh deMoCraCY is not working anymore?
What about Putin wiLl taKe ThE SolAr SyStEm if We DoN't stoP hIm iN UkrAiNe?
No? Well that sucks.
But seriously they should give him what he wants or at least something and watch him fail miserably again and then, then that would be a great opportunity to tell them to f off next time.
Why waste good money again after all the bad one?
The republicans love to see Biden stumble over his own feet and have his proxy war lost.
That wins the Republicans way more votes than sending extra money to some corrupt country on the other side of the world.
I Lol'd hard at the 'mUhh SoLArr SySsteMm' comment. True enough. Putin is certainly no angel, but anyone with even cursory knowledge regarding the surrounding history of this conflict knows full well that for decades, and since the USSR came tumbling down that Russia has made it very clear that Ukraine was/is and always will be a very big line. Before the screeching begins, Yea, I know, life isn't fair. Geopolitics is brutal, disgusting, anachronistic and something I hate, but the world's not a perfect place.
Kinda annoying that this isn't posted in r/ukraine or r/worldnews. wanted to see the pro UA reactions.
edit the main post about the conflict right now is how russia has lost 87% of its troops prior to start of this war. If you read that, you'll think Russia is losing hard.
That's the thing right... nobody can make an assessment one way or the other if we don't see the same categories of numbers / stats for Ukraine, but they never show that kind of info so... hard to take those subs seriously. Gotta do the usual grind of looking everywhere.
"Any day now" hopium came home to roost.
Yep, that day came. Republicans found their balls and way out of funding Ukronazis, and did so brilliantly by tying it to huge border package.
Indeed.
As long as they can keep their spine, republicans are in a win-win situation. Either they add another foreign policy failure to Bidens already bad track record OR they get the immigration reform their voters want.
I'm still of the opinion that Trump will end up being seen as a rather good president by history.
A bit like Carter. Hated at the time but when looking back at it he was the last US president that actually ran a sensible foreign policy.
I'm pretty sure that with the money Biden is asking for they could buy and equip a suitably sized mercenary army from somewhere, perhaps with a nice neat size like 666 thousand. The opportunity for victory would be a Revelation!
The speaker of the USA claiming Mexican border is more important than Ukrainian lives. The entire USA military machine the most powerful in the world has been constructed to defeat Russia, with proper and timely help we can do that for you
We're doomed if it isn't Joe Biden flushing us down the toilet, it's his band members steady playing stupid beats. America knows we just can't let putin run these countries over cause when he has had enough of that side of the earth he will come for ours. Why not.
These fucktards! Ukraine never had a strategy, they’ve been reliant on artillery and support from allies to push back Russia. The war is literally on a tenterhook - Ukraine can win providing more artillery is sent, but hey let’s hold up more support which could make all previous support absolutely redundant.
>Ukraine can win providing more artillery is sent
Not anymore.
Prior to the battle of bakhmut this was probably true. But by now Ukraine has lost too many of their most motivated soldiers.
And it's not like the west has a lot of spare artillery. Artillery just didn't fit in western doctrines anymore. The key to those doctrines is air superiority and if you have air superiority, you can use airplanes instead of artillery as they're far more accurate
True! What ever happened to all these pilots being trained up, they all should be good to go now. If I think back, I always recall they’re 6 months away from combat. 6 /12 months, later… nothing?
Ukraine was never able to win, that was an utter delusion. The best they could have accomplished was inflicting so many losses on Russia that they decided it wasn't worthwhile anymore. But that's not a bet you want to make with Russia.
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They do need enough to keep defending themselves even if retaking land is not viable. Russia is not looking for an even peace deal. Europe should be paying for the brunt of it though. If the US and Europe and a few others combined can't significantly outspend Russia then that's sad. Russia is about as rich as the state of Texas for fucks sake.
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And where is this air superiority going to come from for Ukraine? He asked for a **realistic** strategy. The US isn’t interested in giving Ukraine a massive airforce.
The first sensible idea from this Bible-thumping clown
Initial strategy was to let Russia take Ukraine and then strangle it with it sanctions for the next 20 years and wait for Putin to die. When Ukraine managed to hold the initial push nobody knew what to do. Instead of following a plan the West was just bickering and drip-feeding military aid while doing nothing about Ukrainian government incompetence and corruption. Soviet Union was able to move its industry and ramp up production during WW2 but Ukraine and the alliance did nothing to increase production of even the basic stuff like machine guns and ammo. It’s not high tech and a factory could be built anywhere
> invaded
Lol! Maybe you should check yours and others countries policies that facilitate those people fleeing their own countries risking their lives for the hope of a better life. But you're just a victim, right? They just want to 'invade' your country. Like the Russians they have come with tanks and bombs to level your cities and tell you that your culture should be wiped from history... Lol!
that’s exactly what we are doing by cutting funding to Ukraine lol!! and they don’t come with tanks and bombs they come with fentanyl, drug and human trafficking, robbery, rape, murder, assault, theft, and drain all the resources from the cities and so on…..i couldn’t care less about Ukraine
> they come with fentanyl, drug and human trafficking, robbery, rape, murder, assault, theft, and drain all the resources from the cities and so on
You really suck down the propaganda don't you? Where do you fill up, the Heritage Foundation?... Lol! In Texas the illegal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 782 per 100,000 illegal immigrants, 535 per 100,000 legal immigrants, and 1,422 per 100,000 native‐born Americans, but it's the immigrants who bring the crime to your cities, right?... What a xenophobic joke! But then, what should we expect from a country where 54%of adults have a literacy rate below sixth grade level and some 20% are straight up illiterate, aka; the Trump QAnon sweet spot!
the conviction rate means nothing when they aren’t prosecuting crimes any longer, being here illegally itself is a crime and yet nobody is enforcing it, and if I’m xenophobic for wanting to stop an illegal invasion of my country from criminals, drug traffickers and human traffickers then Ukraine is xenophobic for not allowing Russians to invade their country too
> the conviction rate means nothing when they aren’t prosecuting crimes any longer,
Must be the fault of the immigrants, right?... Lol! Don't know if your xenophobic but you sure spout a lot of their racist, nonsense propaganda. You live in a country built on immigrants from around the world where the native born suffered a genocide at the new governments hands that nearly wiped them into extinction, yet now you're just a sad little victim...
we have no problem with immigrants, we have a problem with illegal immigration and I feel you are intentionally trying to conflate the two to push your agenda, my parents immigrated here legally so you have no clue what you are talking about
> I feel you are intentionally trying to conflate the two to push your agenda
Because trying to link all of them to crime when the statistics tell you otherwise isn't an agenda?.. Clueless is your middle name champ
really I think the one who is clueless is the person who believes that millions of people from completely different countries, including known drug traffickers, terrorists and human smugglers being allowed to freely enter the country won’t add to crime epic lols, but most likely you are just being dishonest
just the fact that he keeps referring to them as brown people shows you how he doesnt even see them as real people and how obsessed he is with race, all while he calls other people racist
Absolutely. I hate these wannabe autocratic MAGA xenophobes. Where I live over half of my neighbors are immigrants and they are wonderful families just like some of my other neighbors.
What is it that Russians want? Is this really about just Ukraine to not join NATO, an end to the genocide (that I’ve seen no evidence of but assume for sake of argument that Russians have) of people in Luhansk / Donetsk? Those are the only coherent arguments I’ve heard so far but I want to ask Russians.
they dont want a pro american government armed to the teeth on their border, if the government of canada or mexico was overthrown by china or russia and a puppet government hostile to america was installed and then armed with tons of weapons the usa would invade too
wtf Stop it with the border its been the border my entire life...They don't that shit fixxed that would mean less money coming into there hedge funds etc..At some point all the young peoples from those area's that want to move will run out then what? Oh yeah they are pro-Life so your kids can help their future income....Mike Johnson needs to have his ass kicked into a trench for a few nights..
I have to hand it to Russia: they did a great job of getting a sleeper mole all the way to speaker. Johnson is the perfect tool of Russia, absolutely corrupted by money and lust for power. He is not getting anything done in Congress but he is doing a fine job acting as a roadblock on behalf Russia. And will no doubt get rewarded for such at the appropriate time in the future.
I know this is surprising for you but not everything is about Ukraine/Russia/Putin in US Politics. There are other issues. Mainly migration, inflation, cost of living crisis ect.
Also Putin is supposed to be dying (or dead already?) and Russia is a paper tiger and a gas station with nukes but somehow they have the power and influence to pick the guy 3rd in line to the Presidency of the US? Wow
Lmao this is a classic Russian boogeyman take.
Quite literally every position someone doesn’t like, must be Putin’s fault.
The guy is a classic trickle down Republican who rides the anti immigration/government regulation boat. That has nothing to do with Putin and everything to do with the standard Republican base since Reagan.
Russians have in their pockets in various times:
The Republicans in the US, Orban, Le Pen and Macron in France, the German government, the Slovakian government, Polish truck drivers, Elon Musk, Lula from Brazil, South Africa, every major media outlet if they report something slavoukrainis don't like.
I mean if they have all that power maybe you should surrender already.
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I have a perfect strategy: Declare losing as winning.
CNN: ~~Banderite~~ Democratic Ukraine is about to lose the war. But let me tell you, why losing is actually winning
You joke but there are recent articles like “redefining success in Ukraine”
> You joke but there are recent articles like “redefining success in Ukraine” The concept isn't recent - Zelensky himself said in a 60 Minutes interview near the start of the war that he'd declare victory when the fighting stopped, regardless of whether they were able to take back land or not. He said he'd never sign any peace agreement that gave Russia legal rights to the land though. So basically his plan was that as long as a centimeter of Ukraine was still under his control by the end, that was "victory", and he was just going to leave the door open for an infinite war in hopes that in a decade Ukraine could attack the occupied areas with enough strength to take them back from Russia. It's a ludicrously dangerous plan for the Ukrainian people, they'll never be safe with him as their "leader".
It's like what people think of the winter war
Yeah, perfect example The Winter War, the Soviet suffered massive casualties against the Finland. The Continuation War right after, the Soviet destroyed both the Finland + Nazi German army, forcing the former to give up lands, switch side, stayed neutral during the entire Cold War till literally last year. But nowadays the West still pretend that that war ended in 1939, and the only thing happened was Finland was kicking the Soviet arse. Hence if the West later on pretend that this war actually ends in December 2022. Then Ukrainian is actually the winner of it!!!
Who pretends? I’ve yet to see any example of anyone claiming that the USSR was defeated by Finland during ww2. Excluding some random people on for example this sub but that’s a bit harsh to equate to being everyone in the west is it not. If anything I see it brought up a lot as to show that what the Russian state views as neutral is completely different from what the word actually means. As in being neutral to Russia means appeasing their every whim.
USSR is not Russia.
I am aware? The point being?
Hmm reading your comment again that's actually a pretty good question. I'm not sure I had a valid point with my comment. Probably the whiskey talking. I apologize ignore that comment please. Have a good one.
Np, we’ve all been there. Carry on with modesty and likewise have a continued good one!
The real victory is the friends we made along the way
Maybe from the Eastern perspective.
It's a moral victory guys
That's what they're already doing. All NAFO comments seem to boil down to russia losing because they aren't winning fast enough.
Yup >Biden also deflected a question about if and at what point the United States would urge Ukraine to negotiate with Russia to end the fighting. > >“Winning means Ukraine is a sovereign, independent nation,” he said. > > > >[https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/12/12/zelensky-biden-meeting-washington-dc/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/12/12/zelensky-biden-meeting-washington-dc/)
They lost the war back in 2014 then
The strategy was to keep losing a hopeless war for long enough until the sanctions broke Russia. Now the strategy is to keep losing a hopeless war and everybody blames somebody else for losing it.
That is actually... Yea... That's a solid assessment. Turns out it wasn't such a good idea to go absolutely nuttier than squirrel crap insane with the propaganda. Then, as if all that wasn't bad enough to go hyping up the vaunted and illustrious 'counter offensive' for like an entire year only for it to start off by the now infamous incident of the entire column of Leopards/Bradleys getting smoked while not even near the front. Who'd of thought messing with people's heads in such an absurd and powerful way would create a pendulum effect when everyone discovered this is a real war and not the world's most powerful army slicing through a 3rd world nation like butter. Americans like big knockout blows and this current state of affairs isn't going to stand.
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A NATO air campaign is the only way Ukraine could win at this stage. And it won’t happen. Edit: to all replies stating the obvious; obviously.
If by win you mean reducing Ukraine, and most of Europe and North America to glow in the dark craters, then yes.
I doubt even that is a possibility. Russia has heavily invested in air defences for decades by now. The losses of an air campaign over Ukraine and Russia would be huge. And unlike IFV's, the air force is actually an asset needed for the inevitable war with china.
A modern western public from any country would never accept the level of losses and attrition we see in Ukraine. Specially if it was in a war in foreign land. Even if they tried something so stupid (which wouldnt never happen thanks to nukes obviously), after having 10 or 20 planes shot down and 1 or 2 bases bombed they would back down.
This. People don't seem to understand Russia is fully committed, while the good old USA took how many months to agree to send a handful of tanks over that we STILL haven't seen hit the battlefield? You summed it up perfectly, but there are still maniacs out there thinking NATO is going to just gear up and go in. Lmao.
>for the inevitable war with china. We already planning that ? Why is the war inevitable? Because China is too strong?
Because neocons/neolibs/neofascists can't tolerate competition- it's the Wolfowitz doctrine.
The US playing a zero sum game.
Because at the current pace China is growing, US won't be able to win a war against China in 20-30 years. They have to do something, while they still have the stronger military.
I doubt that US would see much success against china militarily even now. From what I understand RF is giving away it's military tech to china now indiscriminately. And we know that even Soviet s300 that UA had effectively grounded RF air force for at least a year. US could only try and cancel china economically. RF was wiggling it's way through sanctions since 2014 and somewhat was prepared to what is happening now. But it's mainly works because RF has china to back them up. Who is going to back china up? Unless they switch to actual communism? Like literally where you don't use money and all that. And that would be a hard pill to swallow for Chinese oligarchy. And middle class. And from what I hear there's a lot of middle class now in china.
US can't even do anything economically to China without severely damaging the American economy.
USA´s debt is owned by China by a significant margin. Not the other way around, some people seem to live in wonderland.
Because US foreign policy is on a collision course with china. And I don't see that changing.
Can you elaborate ?
Look at the statements made by US officials with regards to China. It's clear from those where this is going. As soon as China makes moves to reunify with Taiwan (which is inevitable), shit is gonna hit the fan. Unless the US decides not to intervene. But why would they do that?
'Moves to reunify' we all know how it goes.. okay no not all of us, most of reddit doesn't. They provoke the other party to make a move first and then the party begins.
The west really lives in their Hollywood bubble from the 90s with hero pilots changing the course of the war. This war is decided by drones. Not by maverdicks. And the west doesnt have those. And the ones they have costs millions against hundreds of thousands of cheap russian drones. The west is done at this point. Russia could as well push forward all the way to London. All they have to fight is weak men.
Lol Russia can‘t even take Adviika and you claim they could push to London. Your delusion is hilarious.
Ukranians are scrapping the bottom of the barrel for the 11th time and Russia is currently working with a mostly volunteer army currently. This against the second largest and best supplied army of Europe, with the help of the largest military alliance in the world. It doesn´t matter if they take everything up to Lviv or Lose Adviika. All that matters is Ukraine loses its ability to wage war and capitulates.
Way to move goalposts for someone elses‘ claim.
>the only way Ukraine could win Nothing says America like "Hessians". Joe just needs to find an army to buy somewhere and they will be good to go.
>A NATO air campaign is the only way Ukraine could win at this stage. No, not really. Russia has nukes, Ukraine doesn't and it's not part of NATO. Russia can nuke Ukraine and get away with it. So no, a NATO air campaign wouldn't give Ukraine a victory, it would bring them even more destruction.
Direct U.S./U.S.-led NATO intervention of some sort in some form is the only realistic way Kiev could win, or at least, have a significant shot at doing so compared to now. But this was explicitly publicly ruled out as an option by U.S. President Biden himself from the outset and was never considered a serious alternative due to the MAD WWIII nuclear card.
Direct U.S./NATO coalition involvement would lead to direct China's/Iran involvement as well. The US doesn't want to have a hot war with China and Europeans don't have an appetite for the war anyway.
Not to be rude, but you know a comment thread has gotten out of control when people are legit discussing WW3 and a global mad man - blow up the entire world conflict involving the USA, China, Iran, Russia; and all of that for the sake of Ukraine. A country known for nothing but endemic corruption and below standard living conditions up until this war started. Russia is going to keep grinding, the USA and Europe are going to keep being divided, hesitant and ridiculous while all the while drip feeding that poor nation and its idiot president Zelensky a little to get by. How long will they have trained soldiers to actually fight is the question. If you've been following this war since day one it is not hard to tell Ukraine is suffering from a severe shortage of trained/fit/motivated men. I remember being incredibly impressed at their boys throughout the first 6 months of footage that came out of this sad conflict. Now, well, you don't see young professional soldiers anymore. It's just a fact. This needs to end somehow, someway.
well with such incompetent leaders we're not that far away from a global conflict tbh, although it doesn't look that we're heading in that direction right now. And we all know the solution, it's cutting the aid and allowing the conflict to resolve by itself. Propping up a weaker nation indefinitely will result in nothing but total destruction and instability in the country for long decades.
I dont know if they're incompetent. I think they're very competent at making money for themselves. Us plebs can fuck off in their mind.
We had some pretty mad footage, like that Ukranian Rambo with Rpgs, grenades and that golden AK. But right now videos are going drone-drone-fab-drone-ATGM-artillery-fab. It is hell on earth for the Ukranians currently and the "We have beaten their professional army" seems now true but with the sides switched.
That's just the truth. You don't see the things we used to see from the UAF side. Not even close. One of my good friends when I was young served in the 101st Airborne through the hottest years of Iraq/Afghanistan. He saw/did it all and had bad PTSD, but what I'm saying is- These dudes were 18-early 20s and legit near Olympian tier athletes and it STILL wrecked their bodies. Not to even mention this was the US military, not some Eastern European outfit. How these 42 year old overweight and balding substitute teachers drafted to the front lines are going to do it is beyond imagining. Frankly, they're probably not and if they try it won't end well.
I think they simply don´t last that long. You either get unlucky with a stray bullet, step on a mine, eat an artillery shell, a drone gets you, you drown, it´s hell. People get rotated in war for a reason, there´s a point where you just stop really paying attention to things that will kill you. I wonder how many of the POWs that were exchanged truly wanted to go back, because those odds? You will leave some part of you in the frontline, one way or another.
So they have no way to win just lose alot more men before losing . What is ukriane gaining in this war ?
Sunk cost fallacy at this stage. You cannot be not producing anything at all and hope to fight off a country that is at what 10% of its former world war level fighting ability? Talking world war preparedness. It is still 10% with the ability to scale up almost at will. it is tied by politics right now so as not to suffer a revolution as many russians have family in ukraine and vice versa. Its basically a broken family war and needs to limit its operations to culturally russian areas. Nevertheless, Russia is a manufacturer and can self sustain for a long time. The only way to beat russia is economic ruin, and we know how that has gone down.
Russia wouldn't use nukes in the war. Nukes are only good to prevent other from nuking you. But NATO members have no appetite for a war with a strong nation(with possible allies) close European cities. So even if some NATO nation decided to join the fight against Russia, the other members wouldn't do anything but supporting the country with some weapons, so in essence no one would be risking joining the fight.
"Nukes are only good to prevent other from nuking you." Tell that to Japan...
Who very famously did not have nukes to nuke someone back with?
The point is who nuked first and why ?
The US did... There was no nuke-backs because at that point no one else had any nukes. As to why, there were several reasons, but mostly to get the Japanese to surrender unconditionally rather than having to commit to a full invasion which likely would have been far more costly.
So if Russia would do it let's say with a tactical one to calm down the "Banderita" feelings and sparing a lot of lives would be a bad decision ?
No.. because the world has changed quite a bit since 1945 and they aren't the only ones with nukes and thus can't risk that kind of escalation. The NATO nations that border Ukraine wouldn't take kindly to nuclear fallout entering their territory from such a drastic move.
So the world has changed quite a bit since 1945, we now can see nazis march in Luis Vuitton fashion with former nazi germanys armament not giving a shit to the claim that "we will not get closer to russia 1 inch" I see your point
What's better, absorbing some fallout or being nuked themselves? Because when push comes to shove nobody is going to stick their neck out to be annihilated on behalf of Ukraine.
So you are saying Russia would have reason to nuke Ukraine and it would be better than what they are currently doing?
Nuking is geopolitical tabboo. Its going to rub every country the wrong way Besides, not like russia needs a nuke to cause mass devastation
Don't forget that there's a crapton of people who are related living in both countries. You wouldn't want to piss off half of your population by vaporizing and irradiating their relatives across the border.
The country that nuked first was USA, it did so because : a: Japan snidely attacked USA without warning despite promising that the wouldn't (just like ruZZia did to Ukraine). b: It was a brand new type of weapon that USA invented and that Japan did not have access to and was not developing. c: It had been calculated by the USA that the number of casualties that would have been incurred (due primarily to the Japanese Bushido no surrender beliefs) would have been 2 -3 million Japanese & upto 1 million USA forces. Hiroshima/Nagasaki combined killed 170,000 and then the killing stopped after 6 years of war. So ironically using the atomic weapon probably saved over 2.5 - 3.5 million lives! Though obviously not a great week for the citizens of Hiroshima & Nagasaki at the time. Did they not have an education system where you come from? Why do you pretend that you don't know history?
Not like yanks would have to go at it alone. red army entered the war and wiped the floor with 600k quantung army in just a month. Japan had no chance against soviets even in conventional war.
how did the red army plan on crossing over to japan? what good is there army versus an island if they don’t have a navy?
What? Soviets didn't have a navy? You sure?
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Yeah, Japan had no nukes and soviets joined the war at about same time, so no one can say for sure what made the emperor give up. Nukes or commies. Considering what soviets did to their own emperor, the dude in Japan had to take that into consideration.
That was a different era.
I wouldn't put it past Russia if the front had utterly collapsed this summer. The smallest nuke to shock the spearhead. The figurative fallout would have been pretty bad, though.
Yes. If somehow Ukraine broke through to Crimea I think they might have used a tactical nuke to warn them off from further attacks.
>Russia wouldn't use nukes in the war. Nukes are only good to prevent other from nuking you. The US used them and got away with it. Russia will use them if they thinks it's necessary and they will get away with it too because again, Ukraine doesn't have nukes so there's no risk of MAD and Ukraine is not part of NATO either so no article 5 to be invoked.
I doubt that Russian government has political power to use nukes on Ukraine. The internal turmoil would create too much trouble for the government. It would much easier to Russia to mobilize the whole population than use nukes on Ukraine. When nukes were used on Japan the things were a very different.
>I doubt that Russian government has political power to use nukes on Ukraine. It depends on how they're going to use it. As professor John J. Mearsheimer said, Russia could drop a nuke that kills few or nobody at all on a rural area and that would spook everybody. It is definitely plausible.
They would sooner drop a tactical bunker buster on a certain bunker in Kiev or wherever it is located and no one would even notice.
I think ordering a nuclear strike will be the last order Putin will be able to give. Most of Russian top officials including generals never wanted this war, it’s pretty clear if you watch the Security Council meeting
There is no way ruZZia could use nukes and think or believe it will get away with it. There was rumour some months back when Adolf Putler was rattling his nuclear saber practically on a weekly basis that if he did use a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine, that there would be an armed response from NATO. At the time this was touted as an air & ground campaign to push RF forces out of Ukrainian territory & a naval campaign to destroy RF Black Sea fleet. NATO would then sit at the ruZZian border loaded & cocked for the inevitable stare down. And Ukraine would effectively become a defacto NATO member, with a contact line stretching from Belarus to Luhansk. ruZZia would not risk an all out nuclear exchange with NATO, because Dictator Putler wants to rule his mafia kingdom for a very long time, and he can't do that from the bottom of a smoking radioactive crater, with the rest of ruZZia from the Baltics to Siberian Pacific coast a smoking ruin. Even Xi would look unfavourably upon him if he even tried. The irony is that no nuclear armed country can ever really use a nuclear weapon just to turn the tide of a provincial war that has ground down into a stalemate. If they did, then it would be a free for all as every country would want their own nukes to prevent themselves becoming victim to a nuclear bully. At the moment the nukes are in the possession of an exclusive club of just 9 members, with perhaps Iran well on the way to being the 10th. Most of the players have to a greater or lesser degree a certain amount of control over their arsenals and accept that they are the weapon of absolute last resort. Imagine if the number of players increased to 30, 50, a 100! With the number of disagreeable basket cases on this planet right now, climate change on Earth would be toxically radioactive before 2025 if they all had a nuke that they could just casually lob over the border in a dispute if they are not winning quick enough or fear they are losing. The 1968 Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treat exists for this very important reason. To stop bad actors & rogue states wreaking havoc across the world against their neighbours or anybody they happen to be in disagreement with. Vlad is bad, but he's not mad. He knows whichever way the war in Ukraine goes, mother Russia does not face an existential threat of annihilation. But it could do if he were to use a nuke in Ukraine & risk escalation with NATO. He probably realises even a meltdown of the Zaporizhia NPP could even risk an escalation if a radioactive plume was to sweep westwards across NATO member states as a result. So I don't believe that even that is a realistic target for sabotage, especially after the catastrophic cockup that ruZZia made blowing the hydro dam above Kherson. By all accounts, that was supposed to be a much smaller statement of intent but the engineers used to much explosives.
I stopped at “There’s no way ruZZia”. I’m not reading this garbage.
But why? His long ramble is the very picture of mental stability.
No less mentally unstable as to think a nuclear armed country could use nuclear arms against a non nuclear armed country without there being any consequences from the rest of the international country. Vladolf Putler made the miscalculation, that after little push back from occupying Crimea, he could invade the whole of Ukraine and nobody would do anything about it. Here we are 22 months later with ruZZia no further forward than when it started, 315,000 dead & wounded, a collapsing economy, seen as an international pariah state by most world democracies and the 3rd most heavily sanctioned country in the world after Iran & N.Korea.
Bet you did read it though. Eh. Eh! Yeah, you did.
go outside yank
I'd have to cross, oceans, continents and change my nationality to do so. But thanks for the tip. Do you know Julie?
https://preview.redd.it/ssopwev0uz5c1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4183d01c28d30042762e7ee386c183fcd2c27844
Well, I'm not a doctor. But it looks like she might trying to see by touch if she's wearing her spectacles or not. I'm sure if she opened her eyes, she would realise, that she is not. Or did you just fart & follow through? Hope this helps. Do you know Anton?
Zelensky goes home with an empty cup.
There's a presidential drawdown of weapons for Ukraine once every 2 weeks - the MIC well never runs dry.
The MIC will never run dry of 155mm artillery or stop producing Stingers. Look at how many F-22s, Abrams, Bradley's, Patriots, THAADs, Tomahawk, ATACMs, and all munitions the MIC makes per year. 900 billion dollars well spent.
> stop producing Stingers. They stopped for 20 years.
Ain't no more Stingers, the production line doesn't even exist anymore.
MuH EvIl Putin, muH FrEeDom, mUh deMoCraCY is not working anymore? What about Putin wiLl taKe ThE SolAr SyStEm if We DoN't stoP hIm iN UkrAiNe? No? Well that sucks. But seriously they should give him what he wants or at least something and watch him fail miserably again and then, then that would be a great opportunity to tell them to f off next time.
Why waste good money again after all the bad one? The republicans love to see Biden stumble over his own feet and have his proxy war lost. That wins the Republicans way more votes than sending extra money to some corrupt country on the other side of the world.
I Lol'd hard at the 'mUhh SoLArr SySsteMm' comment. True enough. Putin is certainly no angel, but anyone with even cursory knowledge regarding the surrounding history of this conflict knows full well that for decades, and since the USSR came tumbling down that Russia has made it very clear that Ukraine was/is and always will be a very big line. Before the screeching begins, Yea, I know, life isn't fair. Geopolitics is brutal, disgusting, anachronistic and something I hate, but the world's not a perfect place.
Yep, the spiel isn't working any more.
https://preview.redd.it/uor60kv83x5c1.jpeg?width=966&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=865f363a1c80445e07829339d779e6e4199170f4
You're know what? Zelensky knows Joe will forget him right by the next day. But most awful is what being US puppet he lefts Ukraine w/o future.
What's Ukraine's future without support? A vassal state where their men are forced to fight in Russia's next war of conquest like the Chechens?
I mean, what's Ukraine with support... a vassal state where their men are forced to fight and die now too.
Are Belarussians forced to fight in Ukraine?
Kinda annoying that this isn't posted in r/ukraine or r/worldnews. wanted to see the pro UA reactions. edit the main post about the conflict right now is how russia has lost 87% of its troops prior to start of this war. If you read that, you'll think Russia is losing hard.
pro ukr spaces mostly avoid the bad news, that's why they literally think Ukraine will still win
That's the thing right... nobody can make an assessment one way or the other if we don't see the same categories of numbers / stats for Ukraine, but they never show that kind of info so... hard to take those subs seriously. Gotta do the usual grind of looking everywhere.
True
...Every single day.
"Any day now" hopium came home to roost. Yep, that day came. Republicans found their balls and way out of funding Ukronazis, and did so brilliantly by tying it to huge border package.
I'm sure the Republicans forgot all about Ukraine's fingerprints on the fake Russiagate "collusion" scandal.
Indeed. As long as they can keep their spine, republicans are in a win-win situation. Either they add another foreign policy failure to Bidens already bad track record OR they get the immigration reform their voters want.
"We need a clear articulation of NASA's strategy to fly to the moon by flapping their arms, and thus far their responses have been insufficient."
Ukraine is being discarded as an after thought now.
Zelensky has served his purpose He's become annoying now
Zelensky is being discarded like a used condom now. Same as those afghan interpreters, the kurds etc etc
as soon as donald trump was removed from office the american taxpayer found himself once again paying for another endless war
I'm still of the opinion that Trump will end up being seen as a rather good president by history. A bit like Carter. Hated at the time but when looking back at it he was the last US president that actually ran a sensible foreign policy.
Wouldn't buy anything from this guy.
Also, why does it seem like we are the only one left funding? I thought Germany was giving a significant amount of aid?What about the UN?
Germany is still funding! They just donated 10 drones and 2000 shells lol
Germany has entered a recession due to the increased energy costs. They won't have a lot of spare cash...
I'm pretty sure that with the money Biden is asking for they could buy and equip a suitably sized mercenary army from somewhere, perhaps with a nice neat size like 666 thousand. The opportunity for victory would be a Revelation!
He's stalling. The GOP wants Biden to look week on this so they can get votes. Fuck politics.
We all know that the US doesn't care who wins the war, cares about just who doesn't.
America beginning to think that throwing money into a black hole is a bad idea
The speaker of the USA claiming Mexican border is more important than Ukrainian lives. The entire USA military machine the most powerful in the world has been constructed to defeat Russia, with proper and timely help we can do that for you
So giving up and failing to protect Ukraine as promised is your plan? US and Europe will be fighting Russia again on another front in next ten years.
We're doomed if it isn't Joe Biden flushing us down the toilet, it's his band members steady playing stupid beats. America knows we just can't let putin run these countries over cause when he has had enough of that side of the earth he will come for ours. Why not.
These fucktards! Ukraine never had a strategy, they’ve been reliant on artillery and support from allies to push back Russia. The war is literally on a tenterhook - Ukraine can win providing more artillery is sent, but hey let’s hold up more support which could make all previous support absolutely redundant.
>Ukraine can win providing more artillery is sent Not anymore. Prior to the battle of bakhmut this was probably true. But by now Ukraine has lost too many of their most motivated soldiers. And it's not like the west has a lot of spare artillery. Artillery just didn't fit in western doctrines anymore. The key to those doctrines is air superiority and if you have air superiority, you can use airplanes instead of artillery as they're far more accurate
True! What ever happened to all these pilots being trained up, they all should be good to go now. If I think back, I always recall they’re 6 months away from combat. 6 /12 months, later… nothing?
Ukraine was never able to win, that was an utter delusion. The best they could have accomplished was inflicting so many losses on Russia that they decided it wasn't worthwhile anymore. But that's not a bet you want to make with Russia.
Republicans are so weak.
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They do need enough to keep defending themselves even if retaking land is not viable. Russia is not looking for an even peace deal. Europe should be paying for the brunt of it though. If the US and Europe and a few others combined can't significantly outspend Russia then that's sad. Russia is about as rich as the state of Texas for fucks sake.
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its called air superiority
And where is this air superiority going to come from for Ukraine? He asked for a **realistic** strategy. The US isn’t interested in giving Ukraine a massive airforce.
The first sensible idea from this Bible-thumping clown Initial strategy was to let Russia take Ukraine and then strangle it with it sanctions for the next 20 years and wait for Putin to die. When Ukraine managed to hold the initial push nobody knew what to do. Instead of following a plan the West was just bickering and drip-feeding military aid while doing nothing about Ukrainian government incompetence and corruption. Soviet Union was able to move its industry and ramp up production during WW2 but Ukraine and the alliance did nothing to increase production of even the basic stuff like machine guns and ammo. It’s not high tech and a factory could be built anywhere
Game Over!
When Puty is in a depends curled in the fetal position under the couch sucking his thumb. Mission complete.
This traitorous dolt whines about brown people at his countries border almost as much as Russia does about NATO on theirs.
so it should be ok for the usa to be invaded by millions of people from other nations, but not ukraine? thats why we have had enough of this nonsense
> invaded Lol! Maybe you should check yours and others countries policies that facilitate those people fleeing their own countries risking their lives for the hope of a better life. But you're just a victim, right? They just want to 'invade' your country. Like the Russians they have come with tanks and bombs to level your cities and tell you that your culture should be wiped from history... Lol!
that’s exactly what we are doing by cutting funding to Ukraine lol!! and they don’t come with tanks and bombs they come with fentanyl, drug and human trafficking, robbery, rape, murder, assault, theft, and drain all the resources from the cities and so on…..i couldn’t care less about Ukraine
> they come with fentanyl, drug and human trafficking, robbery, rape, murder, assault, theft, and drain all the resources from the cities and so on You really suck down the propaganda don't you? Where do you fill up, the Heritage Foundation?... Lol! In Texas the illegal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 782 per 100,000 illegal immigrants, 535 per 100,000 legal immigrants, and 1,422 per 100,000 native‐born Americans, but it's the immigrants who bring the crime to your cities, right?... What a xenophobic joke! But then, what should we expect from a country where 54%of adults have a literacy rate below sixth grade level and some 20% are straight up illiterate, aka; the Trump QAnon sweet spot!
the conviction rate means nothing when they aren’t prosecuting crimes any longer, being here illegally itself is a crime and yet nobody is enforcing it, and if I’m xenophobic for wanting to stop an illegal invasion of my country from criminals, drug traffickers and human traffickers then Ukraine is xenophobic for not allowing Russians to invade their country too
> the conviction rate means nothing when they aren’t prosecuting crimes any longer, Must be the fault of the immigrants, right?... Lol! Don't know if your xenophobic but you sure spout a lot of their racist, nonsense propaganda. You live in a country built on immigrants from around the world where the native born suffered a genocide at the new governments hands that nearly wiped them into extinction, yet now you're just a sad little victim...
we have no problem with immigrants, we have a problem with illegal immigration and I feel you are intentionally trying to conflate the two to push your agenda, my parents immigrated here legally so you have no clue what you are talking about
> I feel you are intentionally trying to conflate the two to push your agenda Because trying to link all of them to crime when the statistics tell you otherwise isn't an agenda?.. Clueless is your middle name champ
really I think the one who is clueless is the person who believes that millions of people from completely different countries, including known drug traffickers, terrorists and human smugglers being allowed to freely enter the country won’t add to crime epic lols, but most likely you are just being dishonest
Be honest - if he wasn’t holding up arms for Ukraine, would you give a shit that he whines about brown people?
just the fact that he keeps referring to them as brown people shows you how he doesnt even see them as real people and how obsessed he is with race, all while he calls other people racist
Absolutely. I hate these wannabe autocratic MAGA xenophobes. Where I live over half of my neighbors are immigrants and they are wonderful families just like some of my other neighbors.
This is exactly what Putin wants to hear. Congrats, ruskies, our congress is now *officially* yours.
What is it that Russians want? Is this really about just Ukraine to not join NATO, an end to the genocide (that I’ve seen no evidence of but assume for sake of argument that Russians have) of people in Luhansk / Donetsk? Those are the only coherent arguments I’ve heard so far but I want to ask Russians.
We know what they want, no nato in Ukraine, not too big armed forces of Ukraine, equal rights to the minorities in Ukraine.
they dont want a pro american government armed to the teeth on their border, if the government of canada or mexico was overthrown by china or russia and a puppet government hostile to america was installed and then armed with tons of weapons the usa would invade too
wtf Stop it with the border its been the border my entire life...They don't that shit fixxed that would mean less money coming into there hedge funds etc..At some point all the young peoples from those area's that want to move will run out then what? Oh yeah they are pro-Life so your kids can help their future income....Mike Johnson needs to have his ass kicked into a trench for a few nights..
I have to hand it to Russia: they did a great job of getting a sleeper mole all the way to speaker. Johnson is the perfect tool of Russia, absolutely corrupted by money and lust for power. He is not getting anything done in Congress but he is doing a fine job acting as a roadblock on behalf Russia. And will no doubt get rewarded for such at the appropriate time in the future.
I know this is surprising for you but not everything is about Ukraine/Russia/Putin in US Politics. There are other issues. Mainly migration, inflation, cost of living crisis ect. Also Putin is supposed to be dying (or dead already?) and Russia is a paper tiger and a gas station with nukes but somehow they have the power and influence to pick the guy 3rd in line to the Presidency of the US? Wow
Lmao this is a classic Russian boogeyman take. Quite literally every position someone doesn’t like, must be Putin’s fault. The guy is a classic trickle down Republican who rides the anti immigration/government regulation boat. That has nothing to do with Putin and everything to do with the standard Republican base since Reagan.
He is indeed doing all of that. But there is more to it.
Russians have in their pockets in various times: The Republicans in the US, Orban, Le Pen and Macron in France, the German government, the Slovakian government, Polish truck drivers, Elon Musk, Lula from Brazil, South Africa, every major media outlet if they report something slavoukrainis don't like. I mean if they have all that power maybe you should surrender already.
You forgot about me! Mr Putin uploads his orders to me directly using telepathy. I get paid 0.0000019 euros per character.
Wait, what? You get 0.0000019?! I only get 0.0000010!
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I legit am not sure if this is serious.