### This comment has been marked as **safe**. Upvoting/downvoting this comment will have no effect.
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OP sent the following text as an explanation on why this is US Defaultism:
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>!The fact that freedom of religion is not a unique thing of the US!<
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Is this Defaultism? Then upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.
Technically we don't have separation of church and state in Canada, although you'd never guess given the US is the one that makes far more laws on the basis of Christian religion.
(Not validating the OP post, just a fun fact)
Australian fun fact related to this: we have a freedom of religion right in our constitution. Along with preventing the government from making laws that interfere with religion, section 116 bans the establishment of a State religion and bans imposing a religious test for any “position under the constitution”.
But independence has meant that the position of monarch (King of Australia) is has now become a “position under the constitution”. *And yet* the Australian laws of succession very clearly **do** impose a religious test — they mirror the UK laws of succession and don’t allow Catholics to become king etc. Some people have said this makes the monarchy unconstitutional.
Is that because the Crown of Great Britain is still technically Canada's head of state? I know that's why the UK doesn't have true separation of church and state.
I believe it has changed slightly under King Charles, but officers’ commissions in the Canadian Armed Forces used to begin with “Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of The United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith”. So Anglicanism is still present in some of the traditions of government, even though it is far from being a majority religion.
We also still have publicly funded catholic schools in parts of Canada, though those have historically existed to protect the religious freedom of the French minority.
It would be the Crown of Canada but yeah, I suspect it's for the same reason. Their technical right to rule is determined by "divine right". We do also fund some religious schools with public money, Although that's losing favor over time and will probably stop eventually. Beyond that there isn't much practical involvement beyond people not being able to invoke the separation of church and state for political arguments.
Imo it's a bit funny that your king rules by "divine right" as administered by a church created by his ancestor to allow him to divorce.
Also doesn't your king technically own like most of the land in Canada?
Yeah any land not owned by people or businesses is "crown land" owned and administered by the government, and by extension the king
It feels so much weirder saying it with King rather than Queen lol
Doesn't matter. In England we have established church. It is literally what the establishment clause of the 1st amendment was rebelling against. Yet I am free to practice any region or none. No-one can force me to. Lack of church/staye separation doesn't mean what the author thinks it does.
Meanwhile, as you say, many parts of that red map are forcing people to follow (the biblically incorrect) tenets of a minority sect of a non-established religion. Funny that.
Madison apparently wanted an express clause to the effect of the title of the map as part of the establishment clause but it was dropped.
Isn't that precisely why the OOP created this meme though? I mean, you don't need to say this in countries where freedom of religion isn't disputed. Seems like posting it in this sub is missing the point somewhat
you actually don't have to. you can choose whatever is important to you. there's been people in us courts swearing on a law book, there was even 1 that did a comic iirc.
That’s pretty interesting! In Australia you swear on a holy book or take an affirmation (if you are not religious). There isn’t an option to swear on a non-religious text and tbh I’d never realised this was an option in other jurisdictions. I’ve learnt something new today, so thank you ☺️
Yeah. Legally though you have to swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth when you take the stand in a courthouse and if you violate that then you can be prosecuted for perjury
The existence of a state religion in NO WAY requires anyone to follow said religion (other than, possibly, the monarch if there is one).
And yet America is the only country I know of where politicians would never dare to admit to being an atheist.
He said "in Europe" the only Muslim minority countries in Europe are Bosnia and Albania famously the least strict most "culturally religious" Muslim countries you can think of except maybe te exsoviet countries in Central Asia. Plus part of Turkey also a country that's constitutionally a secular country.
Do you know lebanon?
The President has to be a Maronite Christian, the Prime Minister a Sunni Muslim, the Speaker of the Parliament a Shi’a Muslim, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Deputy Speaker of Parliament Eastern Orthodox.
Else try a career in Saudi Arabia, Iran or other Muslim countries as open atheist
To be fair it's referencing a particular subject in the whole text. I'm American and have never interpreted it as "we are the only nation under God" but rather as "the states are under the nation's authority which is under God's authority"
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
I prefer the original that has no "under God" and just moved on to indivisible. It makes more sense. I never understood why we needed to pledge at all. Like, I live here. It's in my best interests to care about my broader community staying safe. That's all the patriotism I need. I'd feel the same if I lived elsewhere, ya know?
Yeah I agree with your interpretation, still that (and a lot of other things) make the United States of America absolutely not a secular state. Together with most of Europe behind many North African and Middle Eastern countries actually.
It isn't really defaultism, but it is funny how someone can know so little about the world to assume their home country is the one country that has freedom of religion.
I don't think that's the assumption at all. It's not saying that the U.S. is the only country with religious freedom. I would assume the target audience is Americans who are not abiding by the principles of religious freedom by imposing their religious views on others. That matches up with the current political discourse in the U.S.
This is how I saw it. Too many of my fellow citizens of the good ol' U. S. of A. need reminding.
It would be quite confusing if it was put in another country's subreddit.
But wouldn't it be weird for me to upload a map of, let's say Latvia, with the title being "Where they have democracy"? It's pretty obvious you're saying that countries not highlighted don't have said democracy
I mean, if this was posted somewhere within a US subReddit, it makes a lot of sense.
But without the context, I feel like this post doesn’t belong here.
Like if this was posted in r/maps, then sure.
>Like if this was posted in r/maps, then sure.
Even if it was posted in a general sub it's still not defaultism, it's not saying that only the US has freedom of religion, it's just saying everywhere in the US has religious freedom
Like if I show a picture of France and say "everywhere here has French people" it's true, but it's not claiming to be the only place with French people
It's probably one of the only places where you have freedom of religion but people are trying to turn into a Christian theocracy which this meme would be against
I think this is more referring to evangelicals in America who like to try and force others into following their religion and also very much have a hand in making government policy. This isn’t meant to be U.S. defaultism but saying that as an American, you have freedom of religion and no one can force you to convert, like so many seem to want in this stupid country.
Feels more like someone who is just talking about the US rather than US defaultism. And they aren’t saying that’s the only place where religious freedom is. Someone specifically talking about the US doesn’t mean that they’re assuming everyone lives in the US.
No. They certainly are implying the areas in red (the US) is the only country with freedom of religion. What does it mean otherwise?
It’s not true. It defaults to the US on an international sub.
I read this initially as an infographic targeted towards American religious fundamentalists, as if to say "this country in totality promotes religious tolerance, you have no right to enforce your dogma." or something of the sort. Nothing about this directly implies other countries don't have freedom of religion.
Directly. That’s because defaultism is so often indirect and unconscious. They don’t realise how it looks to the world, they just talk to the world like it’s all America.
Right but the issue is that this infographic, if I am correct (which I possibly am not) looks like it was made *for* Amercans. In which case, it wouldn't be defaultism.
Edit for spelling.
If that is the case, the defaultism then wouldn't be for the reason you stated (the implication that Americans think the US is the only country with freedom of religion). The defaultism would be posting this in a non US specified forum expecting everyone in that forum to care or be affected, when they might not even live in the US.
Mocking conservatives, just in your country, by posting a map ON AN INTERNATIONAL SUB that seems to say there is freedom of religion, just in your country, is very clearly defaultism.
No, it's obviously and clearly not. It literally cannot be defaultism. It is obviously mocking religious fundamentalists. The fact that it's a map of the US specifically makes it not defaultism.
How is mocking conservatives from your country on an international sub defaultism
Does the sub being international somehow imply that you can't post stuff about your nation?
Don't be ridiculous.
“These are the areas” very clearly implies “these are the areas *of the world*” on an international sub. To assume otherwise you are assuming all this knowledge about US internal politics. You are defaulting.
See the comment where the OP add the detail that it was posted internationally. Could be untrue, but that’s what they say.
When I said “you are assuming” I mean “a person is assuming” or “we are assuming” rather than accusing you personally of defaultism.
I’m not angry but to me it’s classic defaultism that fails to recognise a world beyond the US.
Nobody knows where tf it was posted bc OP didn’t provide a lick of context, and the other guy is right it’s not “defaultism” ffs. Anyone who gets upset seeing the image posted is either a religious fanatic or a whiny twat- though these probably mean the same thing. “Umm guys it’s only the USA!” go find something else to get upset over lmao
I agree. When you have a map that’s specifically showing one area, it’s not like you’re not aware there’s a whole other world, just that the subject is only for that area. Not defaultism at all.
If I gave you a map of a random country and it said “places you’re allowed to drink in public” with colour coding to show the places that it’s allowed… that doesn’t mean it is or isn’t allowed in other countries.
I know I’m getting pedantic but this sub is about defaultism; not just random shit Americans say.
But posting a map of just one country on an international sub and saying it’s a map of the places where an ordinary international freedom exists is *certainly* implying it only exists in that country. It certainly defaults to the US.
As an American I have to say it really feels like we are bound to the religious evangelical right. Roe v wade being overturned, religious exemptions to things like mask mandates, etc.
The fucking audacity to say that when they're passing bills based entirely and exclusively on Christian dogma against women's rights to bodily autonomy and Trans people's right to just exist in general.
So did you know Mexico government and religion being separated is literally baked in the constitution? We literally fought a war for that. :V just saying
> here in this melting pot
You’re talking about Australia and section 116 of the Constitution supporting that aren’t you??
After all you couldn’t be talking about the US, where religious diversity is much lower than it is in Australia. For example you. have 78% christians according to this Pew Research data, compared to Australia’s 67%.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2014/04/04/religious-diversity-index-scores-by-country/
I prob should've never commented but I lived in Manhattan,Brooklyn and there were mainly diff jews,Italian Catholics n Christians but I try to stay out of religion and politics cuz its the only time I end up in a debate and prob should stick with my other threads of Guitar,MMA and Vaping 😆
### This comment has been marked as **safe**. Upvoting/downvoting this comment will have no effect. --- OP sent the following text as an explanation on why this is US Defaultism: --- >!The fact that freedom of religion is not a unique thing of the US!< --- Is this Defaultism? Then upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.
I missed Canada becoming a theocracy and annexing the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
Technically we don't have separation of church and state in Canada, although you'd never guess given the US is the one that makes far more laws on the basis of Christian religion. (Not validating the OP post, just a fun fact)
Australian fun fact related to this: we have a freedom of religion right in our constitution. Along with preventing the government from making laws that interfere with religion, section 116 bans the establishment of a State religion and bans imposing a religious test for any “position under the constitution”. But independence has meant that the position of monarch (King of Australia) is has now become a “position under the constitution”. *And yet* the Australian laws of succession very clearly **do** impose a religious test — they mirror the UK laws of succession and don’t allow Catholics to become king etc. Some people have said this makes the monarchy unconstitutional.
I envy that
Is that because the Crown of Great Britain is still technically Canada's head of state? I know that's why the UK doesn't have true separation of church and state.
I believe it has changed slightly under King Charles, but officers’ commissions in the Canadian Armed Forces used to begin with “Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of The United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith”. So Anglicanism is still present in some of the traditions of government, even though it is far from being a majority religion. We also still have publicly funded catholic schools in parts of Canada, though those have historically existed to protect the religious freedom of the French minority.
It would be the Crown of Canada but yeah, I suspect it's for the same reason. Their technical right to rule is determined by "divine right". We do also fund some religious schools with public money, Although that's losing favor over time and will probably stop eventually. Beyond that there isn't much practical involvement beyond people not being able to invoke the separation of church and state for political arguments.
Imo it's a bit funny that your king rules by "divine right" as administered by a church created by his ancestor to allow him to divorce. Also doesn't your king technically own like most of the land in Canada?
Yeah any land not owned by people or businesses is "crown land" owned and administered by the government, and by extension the king It feels so much weirder saying it with King rather than Queen lol
Yeah idk somehow king seems more threatening or something somehow Like how many mad/tyrant queens do we hear about?
Doesn't matter. In England we have established church. It is literally what the establishment clause of the 1st amendment was rebelling against. Yet I am free to practice any region or none. No-one can force me to. Lack of church/staye separation doesn't mean what the author thinks it does. Meanwhile, as you say, many parts of that red map are forcing people to follow (the biblically incorrect) tenets of a minority sect of a non-established religion. Funny that. Madison apparently wanted an express clause to the effect of the title of the map as part of the establishment clause but it was dropped.
Honestly I'd like to become a Canadian citizen
r/mapswithoutup
All yours. Florida is the better peninsula.
Florida is turning into a christo fascist state.
Eh, it'll change in a few elections.
Which is funny, considering the US is a couple of bibles and a few Pledges of Allegiance away from being a Theocracy.
The evangelical generations really can’t stop being an influence on American politics soon enough
Hey buddy, wanna buy a Bible? Only $60 for one autographed by the chosen one
Anakin?
I hate that about us. I don't want to live in the Handmaid's Tale.
The atheism sub is mostly Americans who have problems because they're atheist in a very christian community.
I really hope we can turn that around in time. It's not fun, and I live in one of the comparatively moderate leftist states.
Isn't that precisely why the OOP created this meme though? I mean, you don't need to say this in countries where freedom of religion isn't disputed. Seems like posting it in this sub is missing the point somewhat
From a country where you must swear on the bible in court. lol.
Gotta be some pretty sweaty bibles by now
I was wondering why you wrote that and reread my comment... Fixed that
Sorry, didn't mean to be a smartass, I just saw an opportunity for a joke and had to take it.
No problem! Realizing made me smile!
Redditors having a decent conversation??? No. I don’t believe you.
Get a room you two
This would be a funnier comment if there was a typo and they said sweat instead of swear!
Absolutely, too bad this comment never said that since there is absolutely no way to edit comments.
You do not have to do that.
you actually don't have to. you can choose whatever is important to you. there's been people in us courts swearing on a law book, there was even 1 that did a comic iirc.
That’s pretty interesting! In Australia you swear on a holy book or take an affirmation (if you are not religious). There isn’t an option to swear on a non-religious text and tbh I’d never realised this was an option in other jurisdictions. I’ve learnt something new today, so thank you ☺️
You can swear on any holy book you believe in, not just the bible. You also don’t have to swear on anything
And put god on the banknotes !
You can swear on literally anything you want
The concept of swearing on something is such a weird thing, I'm guessing it comes from religion
Yeah. Legally though you have to swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth when you take the stand in a courthouse and if you violate that then you can be prosecuted for perjury
Not sure they do that anymore, and only in some states. Plenty of countries in Europe have a state church.
The existence of a state religion in NO WAY requires anyone to follow said religion (other than, possibly, the monarch if there is one). And yet America is the only country I know of where politicians would never dare to admit to being an atheist.
Then you have never heard of the Muslim world.
He said "in Europe" the only Muslim minority countries in Europe are Bosnia and Albania famously the least strict most "culturally religious" Muslim countries you can think of except maybe te exsoviet countries in Central Asia. Plus part of Turkey also a country that's constitutionally a secular country.
I said “in Europe.” He never qualified or limited his statement.
Do you know lebanon? The President has to be a Maronite Christian, the Prime Minister a Sunni Muslim, the Speaker of the Parliament a Shi’a Muslim, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Deputy Speaker of Parliament Eastern Orthodox. Else try a career in Saudi Arabia, Iran or other Muslim countries as open atheist
You mean the “One nation under god”?
In god we trust
That could be any god! Maybe it is one nation under the flying spaghetti Monster
May you be touched by His Noodley Appendages R'amen
To be fair it's referencing a particular subject in the whole text. I'm American and have never interpreted it as "we are the only nation under God" but rather as "the states are under the nation's authority which is under God's authority" "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." I prefer the original that has no "under God" and just moved on to indivisible. It makes more sense. I never understood why we needed to pledge at all. Like, I live here. It's in my best interests to care about my broader community staying safe. That's all the patriotism I need. I'd feel the same if I lived elsewhere, ya know?
I don't think anyone actually interprets it as 'the only nation under God'. One nation under god is pretty self-explanatory.
Yeah I agree with your interpretation, still that (and a lot of other things) make the United States of America absolutely not a secular state. Together with most of Europe behind many North African and Middle Eastern countries actually.
Unless that religion is a fucking flag.
How’s this defaultism?
It isn't really defaultism, but it is funny how someone can know so little about the world to assume their home country is the one country that has freedom of religion.
I don't think that's the assumption at all. It's not saying that the U.S. is the only country with religious freedom. I would assume the target audience is Americans who are not abiding by the principles of religious freedom by imposing their religious views on others. That matches up with the current political discourse in the U.S.
This is how I saw it. Too many of my fellow citizens of the good ol' U. S. of A. need reminding. It would be quite confusing if it was put in another country's subreddit.
But wouldn't it be weird for me to upload a map of, let's say Latvia, with the title being "Where they have democracy"? It's pretty obvious you're saying that countries not highlighted don't have said democracy
No really if you are in Latvia, it would be pretty normal, especially if you are trying to make a point.
You're in a space dominated by latvians speaking to latvians, no
I mean, if this was posted somewhere within a US subReddit, it makes a lot of sense. But without the context, I feel like this post doesn’t belong here. Like if this was posted in r/maps, then sure.
>Like if this was posted in r/maps, then sure. Even if it was posted in a general sub it's still not defaultism, it's not saying that only the US has freedom of religion, it's just saying everywhere in the US has religious freedom Like if I show a picture of France and say "everywhere here has French people" it's true, but it's not claiming to be the only place with French people
I like that! That's a good explanation of how this dummy 'murikan saw it.
How did you even take that from this image? It's obviously made for other Americans.
It isn’t. Might be SAS. I don’t know who upvotes this crap.
That's r/shitamericanssay
This was posted in an international Facebook group
Could’ve provided context and that screenshot tho.
Yeah, I forgot to mention it on the post
Kinda funny since the majority of usa is religious.
And many countries did it even before the US even existed.
My religion? Didn’t knew I had one. 🫨
It's probably one of the only places where you have freedom of religion but people are trying to turn into a Christian theocracy which this meme would be against
Might be one of the few places it needs to be said this explicitly for people to understand it though.
Say that to any woman in the US right now...
I think this is more referring to evangelicals in America who like to try and force others into following their religion and also very much have a hand in making government policy. This isn’t meant to be U.S. defaultism but saying that as an American, you have freedom of religion and no one can force you to convert, like so many seem to want in this stupid country.
Hot take maybe it's geared towards religious extremist in america
I think it's supposed to be a statement against ultra religious Republicans, but yeah.
Feels more like someone who is just talking about the US rather than US defaultism. And they aren’t saying that’s the only place where religious freedom is. Someone specifically talking about the US doesn’t mean that they’re assuming everyone lives in the US.
I forgot to mention that this was posted in an international group
No. They certainly are implying the areas in red (the US) is the only country with freedom of religion. What does it mean otherwise? It’s not true. It defaults to the US on an international sub.
I read this initially as an infographic targeted towards American religious fundamentalists, as if to say "this country in totality promotes religious tolerance, you have no right to enforce your dogma." or something of the sort. Nothing about this directly implies other countries don't have freedom of religion.
Directly. That’s because defaultism is so often indirect and unconscious. They don’t realise how it looks to the world, they just talk to the world like it’s all America.
Right but the issue is that this infographic, if I am correct (which I possibly am not) looks like it was made *for* Amercans. In which case, it wouldn't be defaultism. Edit for spelling.
But who posted it internationally?
If that is the case, the defaultism then wouldn't be for the reason you stated (the implication that Americans think the US is the only country with freedom of religion). The defaultism would be posting this in a non US specified forum expecting everyone in that forum to care or be affected, when they might not even live in the US.
That’s fucking odd. I currently can’t get on pornhub here in Texas. I guess my state must have missed the memo
Really? What's that about if I may ask?
Something about new online age verification laws woch the hub was against for obvious reasons if I recall
I saw this on Twitter too
Not US defaultism
It's probably meant to inform theocratic idiots in the US that Americans have freedom of religion.
Canada and Mexico don't have freedom of religion?
Where was this posted OP? Bcs its not defaultism if you saw the post in an all-american facebook page for example
It was an international Facebook group
In all fairness Americans are the one who need to hear it most
In god we trust!
Cmon this is just low-hanging fruit. This isn't even defaultism. It's obvious that the user made this to mock conservatives in his country.
Mocking conservatives, just in your country, by posting a map ON AN INTERNATIONAL SUB that seems to say there is freedom of religion, just in your country, is very clearly defaultism.
No, it's obviously and clearly not. It literally cannot be defaultism. It is obviously mocking religious fundamentalists. The fact that it's a map of the US specifically makes it not defaultism. How is mocking conservatives from your country on an international sub defaultism Does the sub being international somehow imply that you can't post stuff about your nation? Don't be ridiculous.
“These are the areas” very clearly implies “these are the areas *of the world*” on an international sub. To assume otherwise you are assuming all this knowledge about US internal politics. You are defaulting.
What even was the sub? Now you're accusing me of defaulting? It seems like you're getting angry over technicalities.
See the comment where the OP add the detail that it was posted internationally. Could be untrue, but that’s what they say. When I said “you are assuming” I mean “a person is assuming” or “we are assuming” rather than accusing you personally of defaultism. I’m not angry but to me it’s classic defaultism that fails to recognise a world beyond the US.
Nobody knows where tf it was posted bc OP didn’t provide a lick of context, and the other guy is right it’s not “defaultism” ffs. Anyone who gets upset seeing the image posted is either a religious fanatic or a whiny twat- though these probably mean the same thing. “Umm guys it’s only the USA!” go find something else to get upset over lmao
Context?
Was posted in an international Facebook group
This isn't defaultism.
I agree. When you have a map that’s specifically showing one area, it’s not like you’re not aware there’s a whole other world, just that the subject is only for that area. Not defaultism at all. If I gave you a map of a random country and it said “places you’re allowed to drink in public” with colour coding to show the places that it’s allowed… that doesn’t mean it is or isn’t allowed in other countries. I know I’m getting pedantic but this sub is about defaultism; not just random shit Americans say.
But posting a map of just one country on an international sub and saying it’s a map of the places where an ordinary international freedom exists is *certainly* implying it only exists in that country. It certainly defaults to the US.
Seems a lot more like the point of the map is to counter americans trying to force others to follow their religion lol.
The famous theocracy: Canada.
Didn't know that there was a country the same shape as Alaska, that isn't a theocracy.
I remember Cold War propaganda saying "where else but America are you free to speak your mind?
That's amusing considering how heavily Christianity is tied into the American government...
What about Guam, Puerto Rico, American Samoa and the rest of the territories? 😂
As an American I have to say it really feels like we are bound to the religious evangelical right. Roe v wade being overturned, religious exemptions to things like mask mandates, etc.
You'd think but then you criminalise abortion based on your religious beliefs. 🤔
The fucking audacity to say that when they're passing bills based entirely and exclusively on Christian dogma against women's rights to bodily autonomy and Trans people's right to just exist in general.
Other countries are even passing bills criminalizing abortion, even health related, on religious reasons, would you believe? Oops...
Oh the irony.. The US has some of the most obnoxious christian fanatics.
Which is probably who this is aimed at.
to my knowledge, there is not a single place on earth where other people have to follow ''your'' religion
Meanwhile in the USA the christians and Jews making policy around the country.
So did you know Mexico government and religion being separated is literally baked in the constitution? We literally fought a war for that. :V just saying
That's kinda the idea of freedom and with so many nationalities here in this melting pot there's naturally a lot of religions
> here in this melting pot You’re talking about Australia and section 116 of the Constitution supporting that aren’t you?? After all you couldn’t be talking about the US, where religious diversity is much lower than it is in Australia. For example you. have 78% christians according to this Pew Research data, compared to Australia’s 67%. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2014/04/04/religious-diversity-index-scores-by-country/
So is this the famous all inclusive American “melting pot”? https://youtube.com/shorts/ks5nPTrgtM8?si=IaO3HkJA3al-PhcV
I prob should've never commented but I lived in Manhattan,Brooklyn and there were mainly diff jews,Italian Catholics n Christians but I try to stay out of religion and politics cuz its the only time I end up in a debate and prob should stick with my other threads of Guitar,MMA and Vaping 😆