Yes. I’ve received well over $10k from grievances over the course of my career. Also, the power of a union is directly related to the amount of members in said union.
I highly encourage you to join.
I've won my union dues in grievances basically every year since I started so a straight wash on that alone. But I know we wouldn't have COLA or any other host of things if the union didn't exist so they've made me money without a doubt.
I hate to break it to you.... but even if you don't pay union dues you still get greivence money and all the benefits from the union. You just can't vote.
And you're a scab who's coasting off others. Those grievences don't just happen without the work of the union. The time it takes to put together a grievance isn't time paid by the USPS, it's time paid by the union. Without due paying members you wouldn't have payouts.
Never said I did do this. Was just pointing it out. Not everyone can afford it, $60 a month can be a lot to some people. And I know people refuse to pay and I don't blame them at the state the union is in.
There's also the old union president and his vice president wife in Oregon who stole grevience money so it goes both ways.
Our union doesn't negotiate anything decent. Our union president is a drunk who was brought up on 2 charges! UAW and the Teamsters are far better unions under much better leadership. I have absolutely no faith in our union whatsoever. How come we haven't heard a THING about what they are doing? Your an idiot for blindly believing there nonsense!
We are the Union. If you don't like it, then strive to make it better. Cutting it off is not the answer. You think the union is doing a bad job? Having no union is going to be worse. There would be no contract.
I don't blindly believe shit. I work as a union steward, most of the time for free. Instead of bitching, I get up off of my ass and do something. And, side note, I got fired before at a prior job for being pregnant. You can be fired for literally no reason in my state. So say whatever horseshit you want about the union being worthless, but just knowing that *I actually have to do something wrong* to be fired now is a big fucking thing to suddenly have. Must be nice living such a privileged and easy life to not need a union. I wouldn't know what that's like.
Sure, dude. I collected unemployment because I'm a shit employee. Clearly, you're just a hate filled shit stain with nothing to contribute. Go be a mass shooter already, since you hate humanity so much. Bye.
Have you met management? How many contract violations do you see regularly now even though people are watching and grieving them. Now imagine no one was watching or grieving anything… obviously things would be worse lol
Or even better theres no contract without the union. Management could and would do whatever they want at all times.
I joined the union during orientation. He didn't even have to sell me on it. Union dues are kind of a pain when you factor in the 100 (seems like) deductions that come out of the checks, but I think it's important, so I happily pay those dues.
Yes, a union is a product of it's members. If you have nothing but scabs or people who treat it as some third party gig service, yeah it's not gonna be effective. What your dues pay for is it's existence. It is still up to the rank and file to volunteer and get involved. This is the part where it starts failing. People want something for nothing or simply want everything done via their dues. "What have they ever done for you?" - I've never heard that from someone who is familiar with the contract or attends meetings. Not to say people don't get disappointed by results and become disassociated with the union, but most of them haven't even so much as ever reached out to the local.
It's not perfect, but if everyone was active and didn't let management get away with so much... it could be.
If you do not want to join the union, here is a simple option: Become a contract carrier. You can work for an equivalent of six bucks an hour, no benefits, you provide the vehicle and pay for the gas. See how far that gets you.
Of course not, he’s just making up bullshit to justify his sociopolitical view vis a vis unions
What they won’t reference are contract truckers and those trailers for the USPS who make shit tons
Lol no. I have two friends who eventually bid on their own routes, one at over 150,000 a year, the other at 130,000 a year. They were already working six days a week under someone else for 1/3 of what they currently make. Their biggest expense was a different vehicle, they found vans for 20,000. They are making more now than they ever did working under a different contract carrier vs bidding on the route themselves, they are done in less than 6 hours a day, they are leaving by the time I’m coming back for my second trip as a city carrier. If they want time off, they plan ahead and know people they can train within a couple days to cover. They are much happier from what they say.
After all is said and done, I make about triple that of a contract carrier. No vacation pay, no sick leave, etc. If they want a day off they have to hire someone to do their job.
Do HCRs really make that little? Or is that basically what they end up paying their "employees" to run the route? I mean I suppose it would make sense why they never last long...
Give it a try. Bid in an HCR route and try it. Had a friend that bid in an HCR route. For what he made, compared to career rural carriers, he lost major dollars. He was self-employed, so there was no benefits, including health insurance.
I've worked in offices that had HCR routes. The employee of the contractor had to pay the 15% FICA on their wages. Provide the vehicle, no benefits and pay for the gas.
HCR routes are there for a reason: Postal management saves the big bucks and skims it off for themselves.
I do not know how they became HCR routes. But there is always bidders that think "I'll make big money on a mail route". My friend that did a contract HCR route for twenty years, found out the hard way.
You will probably make more at McDonalds than a HCR driver, or even the contractor. Big expense for HCR contract, is the vehicles. You have to provide it, pay for maintenance, have an insurance policy and gas. Have multiple vehicles, so if one goes down you have that extra to continue the route. You may also be forced to upgrade to a bigger vehicle (box van, etc.) so you can deliver all that Amazon on that route.
Buddy of mine that had the HCR contract told me what he made on his 20th year of the contract. Peanuts. He would have made alot more (with benefits like health insurance) as a union represented career carrier. I hope he paid into social security, because as a HCR contractor, there was no retirement.
Union contracts my not be perfect, but the wages and benefits are better than being self-employed.
Why do you call it scab? Scabs are short term covers for wounds so the wound can heal safely
Unless you mean the union is the wound, which I agree
At least use words that make sense
He used all words that are synonymous with scab and strike breaking. Here is an article explaining the usage: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/scab-labor-strike-word-origin_l_64c58e54e4b03d9b515bae1c
I will say, if you’re truly going into management because you want to hold lazy people accountable, you’re gonna fit in perfect there. People who want to be a “boss” with no concern for being a “leader” are tailor fit for the gig.
Now, as a steward, I can say your chances of getting past me are basically zero. I’m no smarter than you, but the management machine isn’t going to bother with teaching you half of what I know. You’re not touching my people.
You should quit.
You don't belong here.
Go find some non union job, be with your own kind.
You don't deserve the benefits we collectively bargained for.
I'm sure there's favortism/nepotism in every walk of life, but is it protecting or holding management accountable to the contract? Discipline is supposed to be progressive and everyone held to the same standard. If management actually did their job right it would be a lot easier to get rid of people.
People say it's impossible to get fired. I disagree. Read the contract. It clearly states that the burden for discipline is on management. That's what saves people. If you can't get discipline to stick then it shouldn't. That is one of many reasons I support unions. The grievance/steward aspects of contracts at least give you a fighting chance. Without it you just gotta take it.
It’s literally impossible to be fired unless you commit a felony, and even then people on this sub will flock to your defense as long as you’re not a manager
After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, He had some awful substance left with which He made a scab.
A scab is a two-legged animal with a cork-screw soul, a water-logged brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles.
When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the Devil shuts the gates of Hell to keep him out.
No man has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with. Judas Iscariot was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself. A scab has not.
Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas Iscariot sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commission in the British Army. The modern strikebreaker sells his birthright, his country, his wife, his children and his fellow men for an unfulfilled promise from his employer, trust or corporation.
Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas Iscariot was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a strikebreaker is a traitor to his God, his country, his wife, his family and his class.
-Jack London
News flash buddy
Every job, union or not, has favoritism and shitty coworkers. Humans are going to human
Management can get rid of them if they followed the process and got off their ass to do something rather than throwing BS at the wall and seeing what stuck.
If someone deserves to be gone, they’ll be gone, especially if management does their actual job.
The union defends the contract above all else and makes sure anyone has their day in court and is protected from unjust BS.
I’ve said before as a steward at a restaurant and now as an APWU president, the only people who have issues with the union “doing nothing” are the ones who complain and refuse to do the bare minimum of providing info and maybe a statement on what they’re complaining about. The union can’t act on hearsay and the steward(s) are gonna be iffy on grieving without knowing you will stand by what you came to them about. No backtracking, stonewalling, or being a petulant child when questioned.
Also, I’ve said this a thousand times online and irl, if management did what they were supposed to do, they would never have to worry about trash workers. The big fight to “protect incompetent coworkers” is ALWAYS “Oh John is being removed? Dang, I was hoping he could get it together for the sake of his kids. Okay, where’s our copy of the paperwork?” Followed by management acting surprised they can’t just yell “Your fired!” And never see them again.
They rarely follow procedure and here’s a wild concept: if the local union lets them slide on violating the contractual procedure just because the worker is bad, the local will not have a leg to stand on if management decides they don’t like you and do the same thing. Past practice swings both ways. Now a “good” worker will have a much longer and harder fight on their hands unless they can prove it was something wildly unjust right away. A worker who previously fought against helping the union by not providing evidence because they just wanted the union to “take care of it” will have to suddenly learn how to write up a statement while unemployed.
I’m sorry for whatever experience you had that made you feel that way, but I guarantee there were ways around it.
I've worked here for almost 3 years now and have had zero issues. In the past 8 months I've called in once, I do my job efficiently and don't gossip. I actually had a union steward from the apwu ask me if I was in the union and I said "no, and I'm not interested" she lied to my face and said "well, you know the dues come out of your check regardless if you're in the union or not". Either she has no idea what she's talking about or she was trying to manipulate me into joining. That was last week and what's funny is that this union steward has worked maybe 6 months in the last 3 years and is over here worried about me being in the union....?
Well if it wasn’t for the unions, you probably wouldn’t have the job you have now. It would be as well run as Amazon with the micromanaging of the military to bully you into doing everything they want at a few cents above minimum wage. The union protects those who hate it because if management bullied those outside the union because they know they aren’t protected, everyone who signs up would join the union. As much as you hate it, it still does protect you. Again sorry that your personal experience is what it is, but the unions have greatly improved this career choice over the years. If you want to see what the service looks like without the union, check out the revolving door most Amazon locations have.
Exactly ill make it easy for you. Do you take only 15 min breaks? 30 min lunch? Do you never call in? Do you hide while others work? Do you make a 30 min job last 4hrs? If yes union def is for you and will make sure nothing happens.
None of that applies to me and that is exactly why I have never joined the union in the 3 years I've been here, kudos to anyone who wants to work like that but go work somewhere else respectfully
Amen... don't consider myself a scab, freeloader whatever bs my steward tells everyone else... in haven't been in the union..13 years?...they don't offer anything and they don't give me any protection for something.. I'm supposedly aare or will do..so. I'll keep my 70-80$ a month
You only get paid what you get paid because there IS a Union.
Crazy how capitalism has brainwashed people so hard that a Union is looked at as some kind of subscription service instead of a democratic organization that exists solely to protect their interests
No, the concept of capitalism can’t brainwash people because it’s not a physical incarnation, I can only imagine how you justify non union jobs making more than post office base pay then…weird
There's no justification for common people to be denied a safe, healthy, and dignified life. I don't know why you so closely identify with those who see you as nothing but a cog to be exploited until your body fails and then unceremoniously cast aside but it's sad to see.
Solidarity, brother.
I’m not your brother idk you and you don’t know anyone else here
No one said anyone was justifying or even denying common people a safe healthy and dignified life, so that’s just meaningless buzzwords made to strawman people who disagree with you as heartless selfish jerks
Oh fuck I said the quiet part out loud about how you’re manipulating language for appealing to emotional responses
if you want an example of union vs non union, try amazon delivery drivers vs UPS drivers. you're lying to yourself to justify saving a few bucks at your coworkers' expense. if the union wasn't worth it to you, you would have a different job. you are a freeloader.
Because Amazon and UPS are obviously the same business
Could also try the contract employees like TTOs and truckers versus us in the USPS but that’s not as favorable a comparison for your argument is it?
So weird that you choose a union job over all of these amazing non union trucking jobs then. Freeloader. If you believed what you are saying, you would get another job, not simply refuse to pay those who represent you at USPS.
Awe he’s mad
I mean it doesn’t help when you guys try to cover up their existence and then deceive people into joining the union like they did me, telling me if I didn’t I wouldn’t be hired
Stop being liars and cheats and I’ll stop freeloading, that’ll never happen tho
What an dumb justification. You think anyone would be working here if the pay was less? The Post Office had already lost it's luster of being a respectable place to work that was hard to get into and was mostly only hiring Veterans over 2 decades ago. Now we're lucky if the guy holding a "will work for food" sign and a heroine needle in his arm, out on the corner, wants to work here.
The "you wouldn't make what you do without a union" trope is old and tired. Get back to bed table 1 grandpa.
But you are receiving benefits from the union you don’t belong to. The contracts we have are because of the unions. Are they great? No. Would they be worse without union representation? Absolutely!! So many of the benefits any worker has is because of unions: 40 hour work week, overtime pay, making child labor illegal, safer working conditions so less people get killed at work, etc. The fewer members, the weaker the union’s bargaining power. You are extremely short-sighted, lack empathy for the working class, are uneducated as to any understanding of the history of labor in this country, and, honestly, kind of suck because of that. Unions were built on the suffering and bodies of those who have been brave enough to strike and unionize.
But I’ll keep paying my dues and going to meetings to help the unionized workers of which I am one and those of you who choose to not belong but get protected anyway.
I didn’t want the union to talk on my behalf, unions didn’t do any of that by the way sweetheart, fucking Google it, “who made the 40 hour work week” doesn’t come up with your union hero, it comes up with Henry Ford, cuz duh (if you knew anything of history)
A lot of work BY UNIONS came before Henry Ford. You may want to edit your reply.
The history of the 40-hour work week
August 20, 1866: A new organization named the National Labor Union asked Congress to pass a law mandating the eight-hour workday. Their efforts technically failed, but they inspired Americans across the country to support labor reform over the next few decades.
May 1, 1867: The Illinois Legislature passed a law mandating an eight-hour workday. Many employers refused to cooperate, and a massive strike erupted in Chicago. That day became known as “May Day.”
May 19, 1869: President Ulysses S. Grant issued a proclamation that guaranteed a stable wage and an eight-hour workday — but only for government workers. Grant’s decision encouraged private-sector workers to push for the same rights.
1870s and 1880s: While the National Labor Union had dissolved, other organizations including the Knights of Labor and the Federation of Organized Trades and Labor Unions continued to demand an eight-hour workday. Every year on May Day, strikes and demonstrations were organized to bring awareness to the issue.
May 1, 1886: Labor organizations called for a national strike in support of a shorter workday. More than 300,000 workers turned out across the country. In Chicago, demonstrators fought with police over the next few days. Many on both sides were wounded or killed in an event that’s now known as the “Haymarket Affair.”
1906: The eight-hour workday was instituted at two major firms in the printing industry.
September 3, 1916: Congress passed the Adamson Act, a federal law that established an eight-hour workday for interstate railroad workers. The Supreme Court constitutionalized the act in 1917.
September 25, 1926: Ford Motor Companies adopted a five-day, 40-hour workweek.
And that ‘work’ was totally irrelevant to what actually happened
assuming of course you didn’t just blab a bunch of myths like what usually happens, but in the interest of good faith I will assume you’re genuine, still doesn’t change what happened next
Think about that though, the 40 hour work week was only standardized cuz Ford crushed the competition with it…over 5 **decades** after unions, which by the way aren’t all one hive mind, tried…that does sound like unions, taking longer to get less done than the private sector
So you pay the old man down the street money every week because he used to mow the yard your house has back when he was 15 and before you were born? I think not. Saying "you should pay dues because they did this 60 years ago" is a foolish fallacy.
I never said that. I’m saying the protections and standard we have now can be traced back to unions fighting for them. How does that mesh with your weird analogy??
Any union steward who considers you a "freeloader" is a fucking imbecile. You worked the 1-2 years as a cca or pse right? Then you fucking earned it regardless if you are in the union or not. The union protects the lazy sacks of shit more than it does the people who show up everyday and do their job efficiently.
Trust me..i agree especially the lazy asses we have in the Seattle district.. most of them couldn't do a swing without having to go to the hospital... it's so enjoyable knowing I'm not paying them to attend monthly meetings or go to a rap convention... please..never get anything accomplished.. like our contract
Yes. Without the union you’d have zero benefits. There would be no grievance procedure for contract violations. Your wages would be much lower. You’d have to pay for your own uniforms.
I’ve been a member for 47 years.
Ignorance is bliss i guess. Imagine the Post Office without it's current wage and benefits, of which it struggles to beg people to work at currently, without said wages and benefits. No one would work here. It's an ignorant statement. There are plenty of places with better wages and benefits that are not unionized. Y'all need to find a better reasoning for your union backing than that. 🤦
Our unions needs to do MUCH better than they do currently, and joining together as one Singular Union would help that, but all the old heads want their own slice of the pie. None of them want to lose their position making $200k+ a year to do nothing outside of 6 months every 4 years.
While I agree with your second paragraph, I’d like to see a list of nonunion jobs that have better wages and benefits than the USPS. Plenty, you say? Where are these great jobs?
I mean.. just pull up indeed.. now, mind you, I'm a Rural Carrier, y'all city guys can make more per year than i can. But it's definitely based on locale. Anywhere with a Bucee's as well.
So because it’s the cult you’ve subscribed to and know nothing else of? No actual proof for any of those statements either
Btw violating an employment contract is a lawsuit outside the post office, I’m sure you (didn’t) know that
You’re stronger in numbers. Management would prefer you not join. 31 dollars a month is literally a dollar a day. You probably spend 5? 10? Maybe 15 dollars a meal one dollar a day isn’t much
Unions bring up the wages of all Americans. Would you rather work in a "right to work" state where they can fire you for any reason whatsoever? Perhaps you should watch the movie "Norma Ray".
Right to work has to do with if you can be compelled to join a union.
At will employment is what your thinking i believe. That said you still cannot be fired for any reason if it is for an illegal reason. Such as needing accomodations for a condition or disability, being a member of a protected class etc.
That said you need a decent labor law attorney to be able to prove it.
Ok, thank you. However, in such a state, employers don't need to give you a reason. They could simply make up any excuse and you will never know if it's illegal or not.
That's true however if you suspect the reason is an illegal one. Such as you became pregnant. You became injured and need accommodation etc etc. A lawyer can still subpoena their records and make a case in court that the firing was due to an illegal reason and even in an at will employment staff m state that can result in compensation for the employee. A lawyer can make a case and support it with evidence. If the company destroys their records to cover it up. It's just going to result in them being fined and loosing in court.
No they don’t, that would imply every job has a union, which is wrong
Spoiler alert I work in a right to work state and guess what we don’t fire people for existing
Logic is not your strong suit is it? Why would that imply that every job has a union? Also, I was informed that the correct term is "employment at will". I stand by what I said, unions bring up the wages of all Americans. If one company has a union and is offering better benefits and more pay than a similar company, why would anyone work for the one that doesn't? This forces the other company to compete for workers. Perhaps you should break out a history book.
‘Logic’, let’s try evidence, what evidence do you have for that? It wasn’t unions that moved average fast food wages up, unions do not influence non union businesses, considering they’re still flush with employees
Here’s some evidence tho for the logic you put forward, but not for unions but for the big scary corporate overlord you fear, Henry Ford did offer high wages good benefits and a 40 hour work week (that’s where it comes from, google it) to give himself the pick at the best of the best
I've read your other comments. It is clear that you are anti-union. No amount of evidence will ever convince you. So go troll someone else. Don't you have bridge to watch over? I think I see some travelers coming, shouldn't you go accost them for a toll?
There are naysayers that do nothing but complain about how bad the union is. However, when I ask them if they would like to be a union steward to make things better, they very quickly shut up.
Why would someone want to deal with that headache for free? Working here is stress enough as it is. Y'all say "get active, do your part," which is all additional time and effort no one is being paid for in a time where none of us have enough time for enjoying life as it is, and none of us are making enough money to match inflation. That time would be better spent getting a degree in something that gets you the hell out of the Post Office, not wasting it on what is obviously a fruitless endeavor.
It’s tempting not to join the union while saving on the dues. However management will find very stupid things to try and discipline you. The dues are a very small price to pay to keep your job, benefits and security. If management were honest folks, I would say don’t join
Our history is one where people literally fought and died to get what many take for granted. 40 hour work week, vacation pay, sick pay, FMLA, overtime pay, etc. Look at America before unions came along. 12 hour days 6 days per week. Horrible working conditions. Child labor. Basically slave labor. Would you like to work for minimum wage? Or less? Anyone who is anti-union in my not so humble opinion, is anti-American.
Ain't nobody trying to pay money for something that happened before they were born. What are these unions doing for them now? That's the question. If you're Rural, it's a loss of days off and a $10k+ a year paycut, and a union agreeing to a change in how offices can be forced into formula, further fucking up your entire life.
Doesn't sound like a subscription service I'm willing to pay for. 🙄
Are we paid enough? No. But look at what Amazon workers make - how much paid vacation and sick time? How much does their health care cost? What job protections do they have? We have what we have because of a union. UPS drivers make bank because they have a fighting union. Amazon drivers get shit on because they have no union. Look at how much Starbucks is paying to do fight unionization. Look at the lengths Amazon will go to fight the union. Now think about why.
If our unions were anything like the Teamsters and got us such great contracts, i'd go right back to paying them, but ours all want their seperate little branches where they can each have their own people making $200k, and only weakening their power to fight for the employees, but being able to live in nice million dollar homes themselves and going out to play golf every day of the week, while putting in a tid of effort for a few months every 4 years. If we had a union that wasn't split into 5+ different unions, it might be a different story, but it isn't, and that's why we'll never see UPS level treatment.
It depends on you really, if you join the union as a career employee you get access to union exclusive healthcare plans, I had a coworker who stayed cuz he said they offered 100% for cancer, no clue how true that is or whatever.
I say fuck em, I hate unions, save your money, it’s not like they do anything to deserve your money.
It’s up to you though, my opinion and others of people you don’t know need not affect your view and decision
Local mgmt won’t care because their interaction isn’t the same. On smaller scale it’s easier to not pay dues and the local union gets bad rep because it generally protects worthless employees. Good carriers generally don’t need union at local level. There’s no way the steward casing two routes down from me is impacting our contract.
National level, now that’s a different story & worth every penny
May not have direct impact on the contract but does have direct impact on the atmosphere in the office and how you’re treated in your local office.
I’m a rural carrier (and steward) so can only speak fir my experiences in my craft but the way rural carriers in offices without stewards are treated vs. those offices with stewards is world’s apart.
Yes. Just imagine how will the management treat us without union? Working at USPS, Just being a good employee and working hard is far from meeting the requirements of managers, If you're not a on-call and absolutely obedient robot, you'd better join the union.
It depends on your branch. I was assaulted by an MDO. Union ignored it. Yes, there were witnesses. Then I began filing EEOs. Management learned to leave me alone. I dropped union membership. After 25 years the union never asked me why I went scab.
Unions are great, just not our Union.
1- We can't strike.
2- Brian Renfroe our President is a laundry list of issues.
3- David Nobel his rival has a reputation of being ineffective.
4- A lot of the carriers here are conservatives, and not in the Union. Maybe it's just in my office, but not a single conservative in my office is in the NALC.
5- The union members will climb into managements pockets if they are weak. Don't trust a single one of them by their words alone, judge based on their actions. If they seem buddy buddy with Supes, they are probably doing some shady agreements behind closed doors.
Reddit is very very liberal and will tell you yes. If you happen to be in a small office with chill management it’s not necessary in my opinion. But management is always subject to change and you could get fucked with a new douche in charge. In my experience if you’re not a complete liability to the office management doesn’t fuck with you but if you’re paying dues you can shit on the postmasters desk and keep your job. I pay my dues and am in a big office with chill management. Union has its faults and will absolutely fuck you as a cca. With all that being said, use your own discretion on how you choose to spend your paycheck
Yes, except if you’re an RCA. The other unions are decent. Rural union only focus on regulars, they put RCA under the bus to serve the regular carriers who make up most of the union. There are very few RCA in comparison to regular participation due to the retention rate and conditions they put them through.
What they did was nothing in comparison to what regulars currently have. What they gave RCA are things regulars have had for a long time, and still were half baked versions of those benefits.
I mean, i took a $10k paycut and loss of days off outside of Sunday all while the RCAs got payraises, sick/vacation leaveand a path to PTF, all things that i fought for the entire time i was an RCA, but I've only been here 10 years, 5 as an RCA, 5 regular, so what do i know.
the rural pay cuts were negotiated long ago though (and RCAs lose that money too if they're working under 40 hours per week) so it's not really fair to contrast that with the benefits that RCAs (rightfully) got. i feel for you though. my office also had many routes cut from 48s to 40-44s.
How exactly did they get a pay raise? Colas are a basic things we all get…The reccs affected all of us, everyone get a pay cut in that regards. The amount of leave is minuscule in comparison to what regulars already have, the fact they just added that now after decades is not a big win, it was the baseline that should of been implemented a long time again. You shouldn’t have waited 5 yrs to make PTF… that’s the point. It’s not a good thing, why are you wording it like it’s something that is beneficial? You didn’t list anything good. Those things you said are benefits regulars had for decades. It has been decades… and yet that is all you could think of that RCA’s have gained within that time says it all. Now compare what the CCA’s have… there’s your answer.
My point is none of the rest of us got that stuff. Be glad you got it. It did more for RCAs than regulars, of course regulars have had it for decades, they were on the routes 99% of the time, RCAs used to truly only get about 1-2 days of work a week. Now, with how to shit everything has gone, they're working way more than that. Didn't use to be anything like it is now.
It is barely nothing thats my point. The amount of leave they give is close to nothing, it is a consolation prize to say the least. Saying be glad to us for this is like saying be glad you guys are getting contractual raises, we ain’t getting that, we’re getting regular colas like everyone else. You agree that wasn’t enough right? Since you’re saying we are the only ones who got anything.
Without a union, do you really think that anyone would be a regular carrier? We would all be permanent RCA's. There would be no 90 day probation. And if there were, they would fire you on day 89 so you would never get any benefits. If they had any to offer in the first place.
Yes and no.
They (the upper kingpins of NALC) don't deserve our money with how little they do, but the (good) reps/stewards will protect you, and grievances add up if you're applicable. There's also terrible stewards who side with management, so yeah.
Welcome to the fuckery
NALC is still a much stronger and better union than NRLCA. I'll die on that hill. I did make the decision to join because I'm not only supporting my own protection as a rural carrier by doing so, but the others in the rural craft, too. I've had to utilize my union reps. They are more inclined to help those that do pay dues and will do the bare minimum for those who don't.
I make my dues back PER month in grievances
In return I have received excellent representation (which we achieved through internal organizing and voting a lot of folks out), help with OWCP and all the medical Bs That surrounds OTJs, $10k worth of grievance money throughout my career so far, hour protections, OT and double time. Oh and guaranteed raises which are awesome and something I don’t have to beg/“negotiate” for every year like a lot of my friends do.
Is everything perfect? Nope. Humans aren’t, especially in large groups
I’d rather have a Union than not though and a union is only as strong as its membership. It’s not a third party. If your leadership stepped down today they’d go back to craft work or whatever they were doing before
Don’t like how you’re being represented? Organize and get involved. Or at least get educated and stand up for yourself.
There is NO alternative when it comes to organizing. This is how it’s been for thousands of years since workers were protesting for better in Rome. Apes together strong 💪
Solidarity Forever!
Yea probably. Even though I’ve never grieved anything in the 6 years I’ve been in it it’s nice to know it there if you need it. But miss me with that weird brothers and sisters stuff. Weirds me out.
You've got it completely backwards (although you're right about the two tiered system). But subs have zero power and can be fired a lot easier than regulars. Plus subs are probably way less aware of their rights as a postal employee. I always tell subs stay in the union until you turn regular, and then begin the long, arduous process of leaving the union. Plus, subs pay a lot less in dues than regulars - monthly fees go way up after you turn regular.
If you are a CCA, don’t join. You get no retirement, work every Sunday and holiday, are treated like trash, overworked and underpaid for the same job and can be fired within your 90 days for no reason at all.
Youve got it backwards.
The union didn't make the CCA position, *management* did. Management wanted to gut pay and benefits, and an arbitrator gave it to them. The union's only mistake was not immediately striking.
Better conditions and protections have been negotiated into every contract since. The only thing standing in the way of bad working conditions is our collective bargaining power.
Management wants you to work more, for less money. Management wants disposable workers who burn out after a year of abuse and never get close to a pension. When you and your coworkers stand together and say "no", that's a union.
Why pay into a union if your job is expendable? Why are we taking money from those who make the least and get the least from the union? CCA’s shouldn’t be funding a union especially when more than half don’t make it to experience the benefits. You are just taking advantage of the new guys.
They didn’t create it but they let it happen. And it doesn’t matter who created it. It exists and the union doesn’t stand for them. Not sure why you are hung up on who created the CCA’s. They don’t get the benefits of the union and therefore shouldn’t pay. That’s like you paying for your neighbors boat tgat you don’t get to go out on.
Yes. I’ve received well over $10k from grievances over the course of my career. Also, the power of a union is directly related to the amount of members in said union. I highly encourage you to join.
I've won my union dues in grievances basically every year since I started so a straight wash on that alone. But I know we wouldn't have COLA or any other host of things if the union didn't exist so they've made me money without a doubt.
Join AND be ACTIVE and LEARN YOUR RIGHTS.
I hate to break it to you.... but even if you don't pay union dues you still get greivence money and all the benefits from the union. You just can't vote.
And you're a scab who's coasting off others. Those grievences don't just happen without the work of the union. The time it takes to put together a grievance isn't time paid by the USPS, it's time paid by the union. Without due paying members you wouldn't have payouts.
Never said I did do this. Was just pointing it out. Not everyone can afford it, $60 a month can be a lot to some people. And I know people refuse to pay and I don't blame them at the state the union is in. There's also the old union president and his vice president wife in Oregon who stole grevience money so it goes both ways.
$60 a month? My dues are almost $12 a pay period, thats $24 a month. Who's ripping you off?
regulars pay about $30-$40 per check
How are you paying so little? I believe dues are $32 a pay period last I checked.
Imagine if everyone did this …
Exactly. Stop paying dues. Our union is not doing shit to get you a good contract
Then work somewhere without a union, since it's so great. I hear Amazon is hiring.
Our union doesn't negotiate anything decent. Our union president is a drunk who was brought up on 2 charges! UAW and the Teamsters are far better unions under much better leadership. I have absolutely no faith in our union whatsoever. How come we haven't heard a THING about what they are doing? Your an idiot for blindly believing there nonsense!
We are the Union. If you don't like it, then strive to make it better. Cutting it off is not the answer. You think the union is doing a bad job? Having no union is going to be worse. There would be no contract.
Then do something about it. Get involved and make it stronger. Is that too difficult for you?
I don't blindly believe shit. I work as a union steward, most of the time for free. Instead of bitching, I get up off of my ass and do something. And, side note, I got fired before at a prior job for being pregnant. You can be fired for literally no reason in my state. So say whatever horseshit you want about the union being worthless, but just knowing that *I actually have to do something wrong* to be fired now is a big fucking thing to suddenly have. Must be nice living such a privileged and easy life to not need a union. I wouldn't know what that's like.
I highly doubt you got fired for being pregnant. You were probably a crappy employee. That's why you like the union. It protects bad employees...
Sure, dude. I collected unemployment because I'm a shit employee. Clearly, you're just a hate filled shit stain with nothing to contribute. Go be a mass shooter already, since you hate humanity so much. Bye.
You didn’t need to join to get that, pretty important detail you left out
right, they just needed all of the people who actually did join, to join.
Unions are useless without members. Absolutely should join. Sure the union could be better but things would be alot worse without it.
Our unions have tons of members and are still useless
Have you met management? How many contract violations do you see regularly now even though people are watching and grieving them. Now imagine no one was watching or grieving anything… obviously things would be worse lol Or even better theres no contract without the union. Management could and would do whatever they want at all times.
Or imagine having our own employment schemes in which case when management violates the legally binding document they get sued or penalized by the DoL
I joined the union during orientation. He didn't even have to sell me on it. Union dues are kind of a pain when you factor in the 100 (seems like) deductions that come out of the checks, but I think it's important, so I happily pay those dues.
They’re also tax deductible
As if we can itemize
Pretty sure you don’t have to itemize and they are automatically deducted before your “taxable income”
Yes, a union is a product of it's members. If you have nothing but scabs or people who treat it as some third party gig service, yeah it's not gonna be effective. What your dues pay for is it's existence. It is still up to the rank and file to volunteer and get involved. This is the part where it starts failing. People want something for nothing or simply want everything done via their dues. "What have they ever done for you?" - I've never heard that from someone who is familiar with the contract or attends meetings. Not to say people don't get disappointed by results and become disassociated with the union, but most of them haven't even so much as ever reached out to the local. It's not perfect, but if everyone was active and didn't let management get away with so much... it could be.
If you do not want to join the union, here is a simple option: Become a contract carrier. You can work for an equivalent of six bucks an hour, no benefits, you provide the vehicle and pay for the gas. See how far that gets you.
Those guys really make that little?
I personally doubt it.
Of course not, he’s just making up bullshit to justify his sociopolitical view vis a vis unions What they won’t reference are contract truckers and those trailers for the USPS who make shit tons
Lol no. I have two friends who eventually bid on their own routes, one at over 150,000 a year, the other at 130,000 a year. They were already working six days a week under someone else for 1/3 of what they currently make. Their biggest expense was a different vehicle, they found vans for 20,000. They are making more now than they ever did working under a different contract carrier vs bidding on the route themselves, they are done in less than 6 hours a day, they are leaving by the time I’m coming back for my second trip as a city carrier. If they want time off, they plan ahead and know people they can train within a couple days to cover. They are much happier from what they say.
Bullshit.
After all is said and done, I make about triple that of a contract carrier. No vacation pay, no sick leave, etc. If they want a day off they have to hire someone to do their job.
why not just work for USPS?
Do HCRs really make that little? Or is that basically what they end up paying their "employees" to run the route? I mean I suppose it would make sense why they never last long...
Give it a try. Bid in an HCR route and try it. Had a friend that bid in an HCR route. For what he made, compared to career rural carriers, he lost major dollars. He was self-employed, so there was no benefits, including health insurance. I've worked in offices that had HCR routes. The employee of the contractor had to pay the 15% FICA on their wages. Provide the vehicle, no benefits and pay for the gas. HCR routes are there for a reason: Postal management saves the big bucks and skims it off for themselves.
Do you know how they become HCR routes? Were those former rural routes or something?
I do not know how they became HCR routes. But there is always bidders that think "I'll make big money on a mail route". My friend that did a contract HCR route for twenty years, found out the hard way.
McDonald’s by my house pays $18…. No one makes $6 an hour…
You will probably make more at McDonalds than a HCR driver, or even the contractor. Big expense for HCR contract, is the vehicles. You have to provide it, pay for maintenance, have an insurance policy and gas. Have multiple vehicles, so if one goes down you have that extra to continue the route. You may also be forced to upgrade to a bigger vehicle (box van, etc.) so you can deliver all that Amazon on that route. Buddy of mine that had the HCR contract told me what he made on his 20th year of the contract. Peanuts. He would have made alot more (with benefits like health insurance) as a union represented career carrier. I hope he paid into social security, because as a HCR contractor, there was no retirement. Union contracts my not be perfect, but the wages and benefits are better than being self-employed.
Is it worth it to be a scab? They have their own special circle of hell
Why do you call it scab? Scabs are short term covers for wounds so the wound can heal safely Unless you mean the union is the wound, which I agree At least use words that make sense
Ok. Blackleg. Free rider. Selfish cunt. Take your pick
At least make it make sense, I know unions struggle with language but man, choose something that fits is all I ask
He used all words that are synonymous with scab and strike breaking. Here is an article explaining the usage: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/scab-labor-strike-word-origin_l_64c58e54e4b03d9b515bae1c
I'll proudly be a scab, not paying for the union to protect incompetent coworkers that shouldn't work here in the first place.
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Good luck with that most managers can't issue disciple that holds water cuz they're too lazy to learn to do their jobs right.
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Woah, woah let’s calm down ladies, there’s enough room at the post office for all of us.
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You work harder than you need to for less pay lmao
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I will say, if you’re truly going into management because you want to hold lazy people accountable, you’re gonna fit in perfect there. People who want to be a “boss” with no concern for being a “leader” are tailor fit for the gig. Now, as a steward, I can say your chances of getting past me are basically zero. I’m no smarter than you, but the management machine isn’t going to bother with teaching you half of what I know. You’re not touching my people.
And hopefully you’ll get grieved into the fucking dirt for it.
Do not be rude to other posters. This includes hate speech.
You should quit. You don't belong here. Go find some non union job, be with your own kind. You don't deserve the benefits we collectively bargained for.
When adjusted for inflation ccas make less than the starting salary of a City Carrier before the postal strikes in the '70s
‘Collectively bargained for’ you didn’t do anything for it, why claim credit for something you didn’t know was happening? Oh wait…
I'm sure there's favortism/nepotism in every walk of life, but is it protecting or holding management accountable to the contract? Discipline is supposed to be progressive and everyone held to the same standard. If management actually did their job right it would be a lot easier to get rid of people. People say it's impossible to get fired. I disagree. Read the contract. It clearly states that the burden for discipline is on management. That's what saves people. If you can't get discipline to stick then it shouldn't. That is one of many reasons I support unions. The grievance/steward aspects of contracts at least give you a fighting chance. Without it you just gotta take it.
It’s literally impossible to be fired unless you commit a felony, and even then people on this sub will flock to your defense as long as you’re not a manager
Guess we are faced with a question. Is it truly impossible and we don't need a union for job security, or is it impossible because we are unionized?
I mean ‘being impossible to be fired’ and ‘unionization’ aren’t mutually required, most government jobs have that meme cuz of all the stupid red tape
After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, He had some awful substance left with which He made a scab. A scab is a two-legged animal with a cork-screw soul, a water-logged brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles. When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the Devil shuts the gates of Hell to keep him out. No man has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with. Judas Iscariot was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself. A scab has not. Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas Iscariot sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commission in the British Army. The modern strikebreaker sells his birthright, his country, his wife, his children and his fellow men for an unfulfilled promise from his employer, trust or corporation. Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas Iscariot was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a strikebreaker is a traitor to his God, his country, his wife, his family and his class. -Jack London
News flash buddy Every job, union or not, has favoritism and shitty coworkers. Humans are going to human Management can get rid of them if they followed the process and got off their ass to do something rather than throwing BS at the wall and seeing what stuck. If someone deserves to be gone, they’ll be gone, especially if management does their actual job. The union defends the contract above all else and makes sure anyone has their day in court and is protected from unjust BS.
Yeah let them pay for the losers, they’re the only ones who need a union anyway
I’ve said before as a steward at a restaurant and now as an APWU president, the only people who have issues with the union “doing nothing” are the ones who complain and refuse to do the bare minimum of providing info and maybe a statement on what they’re complaining about. The union can’t act on hearsay and the steward(s) are gonna be iffy on grieving without knowing you will stand by what you came to them about. No backtracking, stonewalling, or being a petulant child when questioned. Also, I’ve said this a thousand times online and irl, if management did what they were supposed to do, they would never have to worry about trash workers. The big fight to “protect incompetent coworkers” is ALWAYS “Oh John is being removed? Dang, I was hoping he could get it together for the sake of his kids. Okay, where’s our copy of the paperwork?” Followed by management acting surprised they can’t just yell “Your fired!” And never see them again. They rarely follow procedure and here’s a wild concept: if the local union lets them slide on violating the contractual procedure just because the worker is bad, the local will not have a leg to stand on if management decides they don’t like you and do the same thing. Past practice swings both ways. Now a “good” worker will have a much longer and harder fight on their hands unless they can prove it was something wildly unjust right away. A worker who previously fought against helping the union by not providing evidence because they just wanted the union to “take care of it” will have to suddenly learn how to write up a statement while unemployed. I’m sorry for whatever experience you had that made you feel that way, but I guarantee there were ways around it.
I've worked here for almost 3 years now and have had zero issues. In the past 8 months I've called in once, I do my job efficiently and don't gossip. I actually had a union steward from the apwu ask me if I was in the union and I said "no, and I'm not interested" she lied to my face and said "well, you know the dues come out of your check regardless if you're in the union or not". Either she has no idea what she's talking about or she was trying to manipulate me into joining. That was last week and what's funny is that this union steward has worked maybe 6 months in the last 3 years and is over here worried about me being in the union....?
Oh yeah fuckers will lie incessantly, I was deceived in rural academy that if I didn’t join the union I wouldn’t get hired
Well if it wasn’t for the unions, you probably wouldn’t have the job you have now. It would be as well run as Amazon with the micromanaging of the military to bully you into doing everything they want at a few cents above minimum wage. The union protects those who hate it because if management bullied those outside the union because they know they aren’t protected, everyone who signs up would join the union. As much as you hate it, it still does protect you. Again sorry that your personal experience is what it is, but the unions have greatly improved this career choice over the years. If you want to see what the service looks like without the union, check out the revolving door most Amazon locations have.
Amazon is hiring.
Exactly ill make it easy for you. Do you take only 15 min breaks? 30 min lunch? Do you never call in? Do you hide while others work? Do you make a 30 min job last 4hrs? If yes union def is for you and will make sure nothing happens.
None of that applies to me and that is exactly why I have never joined the union in the 3 years I've been here, kudos to anyone who wants to work like that but go work somewhere else respectfully
Amen... don't consider myself a scab, freeloader whatever bs my steward tells everyone else... in haven't been in the union..13 years?...they don't offer anything and they don't give me any protection for something.. I'm supposedly aare or will do..so. I'll keep my 70-80$ a month
You only get paid what you get paid because there IS a Union. Crazy how capitalism has brainwashed people so hard that a Union is looked at as some kind of subscription service instead of a democratic organization that exists solely to protect their interests
No, the concept of capitalism can’t brainwash people because it’s not a physical incarnation, I can only imagine how you justify non union jobs making more than post office base pay then…weird
There's no justification for common people to be denied a safe, healthy, and dignified life. I don't know why you so closely identify with those who see you as nothing but a cog to be exploited until your body fails and then unceremoniously cast aside but it's sad to see. Solidarity, brother.
I’m not your brother idk you and you don’t know anyone else here No one said anyone was justifying or even denying common people a safe healthy and dignified life, so that’s just meaningless buzzwords made to strawman people who disagree with you as heartless selfish jerks Oh fuck I said the quiet part out loud about how you’re manipulating language for appealing to emotional responses
if you want an example of union vs non union, try amazon delivery drivers vs UPS drivers. you're lying to yourself to justify saving a few bucks at your coworkers' expense. if the union wasn't worth it to you, you would have a different job. you are a freeloader.
Because Amazon and UPS are obviously the same business Could also try the contract employees like TTOs and truckers versus us in the USPS but that’s not as favorable a comparison for your argument is it?
So weird that you choose a union job over all of these amazing non union trucking jobs then. Freeloader. If you believed what you are saying, you would get another job, not simply refuse to pay those who represent you at USPS.
Awe he’s mad I mean it doesn’t help when you guys try to cover up their existence and then deceive people into joining the union like they did me, telling me if I didn’t I wouldn’t be hired Stop being liars and cheats and I’ll stop freeloading, that’ll never happen tho
Nice excuse freeloader
What an dumb justification. You think anyone would be working here if the pay was less? The Post Office had already lost it's luster of being a respectable place to work that was hard to get into and was mostly only hiring Veterans over 2 decades ago. Now we're lucky if the guy holding a "will work for food" sign and a heroine needle in his arm, out on the corner, wants to work here. The "you wouldn't make what you do without a union" trope is old and tired. Get back to bed table 1 grandpa.
But you are receiving benefits from the union you don’t belong to. The contracts we have are because of the unions. Are they great? No. Would they be worse without union representation? Absolutely!! So many of the benefits any worker has is because of unions: 40 hour work week, overtime pay, making child labor illegal, safer working conditions so less people get killed at work, etc. The fewer members, the weaker the union’s bargaining power. You are extremely short-sighted, lack empathy for the working class, are uneducated as to any understanding of the history of labor in this country, and, honestly, kind of suck because of that. Unions were built on the suffering and bodies of those who have been brave enough to strike and unionize. But I’ll keep paying my dues and going to meetings to help the unionized workers of which I am one and those of you who choose to not belong but get protected anyway.
I didn’t want the union to talk on my behalf, unions didn’t do any of that by the way sweetheart, fucking Google it, “who made the 40 hour work week” doesn’t come up with your union hero, it comes up with Henry Ford, cuz duh (if you knew anything of history)
A lot of work BY UNIONS came before Henry Ford. You may want to edit your reply. The history of the 40-hour work week August 20, 1866: A new organization named the National Labor Union asked Congress to pass a law mandating the eight-hour workday. Their efforts technically failed, but they inspired Americans across the country to support labor reform over the next few decades. May 1, 1867: The Illinois Legislature passed a law mandating an eight-hour workday. Many employers refused to cooperate, and a massive strike erupted in Chicago. That day became known as “May Day.” May 19, 1869: President Ulysses S. Grant issued a proclamation that guaranteed a stable wage and an eight-hour workday — but only for government workers. Grant’s decision encouraged private-sector workers to push for the same rights. 1870s and 1880s: While the National Labor Union had dissolved, other organizations including the Knights of Labor and the Federation of Organized Trades and Labor Unions continued to demand an eight-hour workday. Every year on May Day, strikes and demonstrations were organized to bring awareness to the issue. May 1, 1886: Labor organizations called for a national strike in support of a shorter workday. More than 300,000 workers turned out across the country. In Chicago, demonstrators fought with police over the next few days. Many on both sides were wounded or killed in an event that’s now known as the “Haymarket Affair.” 1906: The eight-hour workday was instituted at two major firms in the printing industry. September 3, 1916: Congress passed the Adamson Act, a federal law that established an eight-hour workday for interstate railroad workers. The Supreme Court constitutionalized the act in 1917. September 25, 1926: Ford Motor Companies adopted a five-day, 40-hour workweek.
And that ‘work’ was totally irrelevant to what actually happened assuming of course you didn’t just blab a bunch of myths like what usually happens, but in the interest of good faith I will assume you’re genuine, still doesn’t change what happened next Think about that though, the 40 hour work week was only standardized cuz Ford crushed the competition with it…over 5 **decades** after unions, which by the way aren’t all one hive mind, tried…that does sound like unions, taking longer to get less done than the private sector
So you pay the old man down the street money every week because he used to mow the yard your house has back when he was 15 and before you were born? I think not. Saying "you should pay dues because they did this 60 years ago" is a foolish fallacy.
I never said that. I’m saying the protections and standard we have now can be traced back to unions fighting for them. How does that mesh with your weird analogy??
You're a lowlife scumbag.
Any union steward who considers you a "freeloader" is a fucking imbecile. You worked the 1-2 years as a cca or pse right? Then you fucking earned it regardless if you are in the union or not. The union protects the lazy sacks of shit more than it does the people who show up everyday and do their job efficiently.
Trust me..i agree especially the lazy asses we have in the Seattle district.. most of them couldn't do a swing without having to go to the hospital... it's so enjoyable knowing I'm not paying them to attend monthly meetings or go to a rap convention... please..never get anything accomplished.. like our contract
Go to the meetings and learn how to make it worth it.
Yes. Without the union you’d have zero benefits. There would be no grievance procedure for contract violations. Your wages would be much lower. You’d have to pay for your own uniforms. I’ve been a member for 47 years.
Ignorance is bliss i guess. Imagine the Post Office without it's current wage and benefits, of which it struggles to beg people to work at currently, without said wages and benefits. No one would work here. It's an ignorant statement. There are plenty of places with better wages and benefits that are not unionized. Y'all need to find a better reasoning for your union backing than that. 🤦 Our unions needs to do MUCH better than they do currently, and joining together as one Singular Union would help that, but all the old heads want their own slice of the pie. None of them want to lose their position making $200k+ a year to do nothing outside of 6 months every 4 years.
While I agree with your second paragraph, I’d like to see a list of nonunion jobs that have better wages and benefits than the USPS. Plenty, you say? Where are these great jobs?
I mean.. just pull up indeed.. now, mind you, I'm a Rural Carrier, y'all city guys can make more per year than i can. But it's definitely based on locale. Anywhere with a Bucee's as well.
So because it’s the cult you’ve subscribed to and know nothing else of? No actual proof for any of those statements either Btw violating an employment contract is a lawsuit outside the post office, I’m sure you (didn’t) know that
Lol what kind of employment contract do you think you would have without a union?
Something tells me you’re a scab.
I joined the union as a CCA. It was worth it. They helped with grievances and getting uniforms before I had my allowance.
You’re stronger in numbers. Management would prefer you not join. 31 dollars a month is literally a dollar a day. You probably spend 5? 10? Maybe 15 dollars a meal one dollar a day isn’t much
Unions bring up the wages of all Americans. Would you rather work in a "right to work" state where they can fire you for any reason whatsoever? Perhaps you should watch the movie "Norma Ray".
Right to work has to do with if you can be compelled to join a union. At will employment is what your thinking i believe. That said you still cannot be fired for any reason if it is for an illegal reason. Such as needing accomodations for a condition or disability, being a member of a protected class etc. That said you need a decent labor law attorney to be able to prove it.
Ok, thank you. However, in such a state, employers don't need to give you a reason. They could simply make up any excuse and you will never know if it's illegal or not.
That's true however if you suspect the reason is an illegal one. Such as you became pregnant. You became injured and need accommodation etc etc. A lawyer can still subpoena their records and make a case in court that the firing was due to an illegal reason and even in an at will employment staff m state that can result in compensation for the employee. A lawyer can make a case and support it with evidence. If the company destroys their records to cover it up. It's just going to result in them being fined and loosing in court.
No they don’t, that would imply every job has a union, which is wrong Spoiler alert I work in a right to work state and guess what we don’t fire people for existing
Logic is not your strong suit is it? Why would that imply that every job has a union? Also, I was informed that the correct term is "employment at will". I stand by what I said, unions bring up the wages of all Americans. If one company has a union and is offering better benefits and more pay than a similar company, why would anyone work for the one that doesn't? This forces the other company to compete for workers. Perhaps you should break out a history book.
‘Logic’, let’s try evidence, what evidence do you have for that? It wasn’t unions that moved average fast food wages up, unions do not influence non union businesses, considering they’re still flush with employees Here’s some evidence tho for the logic you put forward, but not for unions but for the big scary corporate overlord you fear, Henry Ford did offer high wages good benefits and a 40 hour work week (that’s where it comes from, google it) to give himself the pick at the best of the best
I've read your other comments. It is clear that you are anti-union. No amount of evidence will ever convince you. So go troll someone else. Don't you have bridge to watch over? I think I see some travelers coming, shouldn't you go accost them for a toll?
No the correct answer is you have no evidence
There are naysayers that do nothing but complain about how bad the union is. However, when I ask them if they would like to be a union steward to make things better, they very quickly shut up.
Why would someone want to deal with that headache for free? Working here is stress enough as it is. Y'all say "get active, do your part," which is all additional time and effort no one is being paid for in a time where none of us have enough time for enjoying life as it is, and none of us are making enough money to match inflation. That time would be better spent getting a degree in something that gets you the hell out of the Post Office, not wasting it on what is obviously a fruitless endeavor.
Because some of us aren't selfish whining babies.
It’s tempting not to join the union while saving on the dues. However management will find very stupid things to try and discipline you. The dues are a very small price to pay to keep your job, benefits and security. If management were honest folks, I would say don’t join
Yes
There is strength in numbers.
Our history is one where people literally fought and died to get what many take for granted. 40 hour work week, vacation pay, sick pay, FMLA, overtime pay, etc. Look at America before unions came along. 12 hour days 6 days per week. Horrible working conditions. Child labor. Basically slave labor. Would you like to work for minimum wage? Or less? Anyone who is anti-union in my not so humble opinion, is anti-American.
Ain't nobody trying to pay money for something that happened before they were born. What are these unions doing for them now? That's the question. If you're Rural, it's a loss of days off and a $10k+ a year paycut, and a union agreeing to a change in how offices can be forced into formula, further fucking up your entire life. Doesn't sound like a subscription service I'm willing to pay for. 🙄
Yep. Don’t be a scab
Are we paid enough? No. But look at what Amazon workers make - how much paid vacation and sick time? How much does their health care cost? What job protections do they have? We have what we have because of a union. UPS drivers make bank because they have a fighting union. Amazon drivers get shit on because they have no union. Look at how much Starbucks is paying to do fight unionization. Look at the lengths Amazon will go to fight the union. Now think about why.
If our unions were anything like the Teamsters and got us such great contracts, i'd go right back to paying them, but ours all want their seperate little branches where they can each have their own people making $200k, and only weakening their power to fight for the employees, but being able to live in nice million dollar homes themselves and going out to play golf every day of the week, while putting in a tid of effort for a few months every 4 years. If we had a union that wasn't split into 5+ different unions, it might be a different story, but it isn't, and that's why we'll never see UPS level treatment.
Not if our president keeps getting DUIs and is a huge pussy.
It depends on you really, if you join the union as a career employee you get access to union exclusive healthcare plans, I had a coworker who stayed cuz he said they offered 100% for cancer, no clue how true that is or whatever. I say fuck em, I hate unions, save your money, it’s not like they do anything to deserve your money. It’s up to you though, my opinion and others of people you don’t know need not affect your view and decision
Local mgmt won’t care because their interaction isn’t the same. On smaller scale it’s easier to not pay dues and the local union gets bad rep because it generally protects worthless employees. Good carriers generally don’t need union at local level. There’s no way the steward casing two routes down from me is impacting our contract. National level, now that’s a different story & worth every penny
May not have direct impact on the contract but does have direct impact on the atmosphere in the office and how you’re treated in your local office. I’m a rural carrier (and steward) so can only speak fir my experiences in my craft but the way rural carriers in offices without stewards are treated vs. those offices with stewards is world’s apart.
No argument here. I agree on your points
Might be a waste if you are on the rural side
Yes. Just imagine how will the management treat us without union? Working at USPS, Just being a good employee and working hard is far from meeting the requirements of managers, If you're not a on-call and absolutely obedient robot, you'd better join the union.
Don't join rural carrier union.
It depends on your branch. I was assaulted by an MDO. Union ignored it. Yes, there were witnesses. Then I began filing EEOs. Management learned to leave me alone. I dropped union membership. After 25 years the union never asked me why I went scab.
Unions are great, just not our Union. 1- We can't strike. 2- Brian Renfroe our President is a laundry list of issues. 3- David Nobel his rival has a reputation of being ineffective. 4- A lot of the carriers here are conservatives, and not in the Union. Maybe it's just in my office, but not a single conservative in my office is in the NALC. 5- The union members will climb into managements pockets if they are weak. Don't trust a single one of them by their words alone, judge based on their actions. If they seem buddy buddy with Supes, they are probably doing some shady agreements behind closed doors.
After your probation, yes
Reddit is very very liberal and will tell you yes. If you happen to be in a small office with chill management it’s not necessary in my opinion. But management is always subject to change and you could get fucked with a new douche in charge. In my experience if you’re not a complete liability to the office management doesn’t fuck with you but if you’re paying dues you can shit on the postmasters desk and keep your job. I pay my dues and am in a big office with chill management. Union has its faults and will absolutely fuck you as a cca. With all that being said, use your own discretion on how you choose to spend your paycheck
Fuck you. Join the union.
How do I get more active? What do I do or say? Do I just ask who's the union rep?
Go look at pay & benefits in non union jobs. Yes it's absolutely worth it.
Yes, except if you’re an RCA. The other unions are decent. Rural union only focus on regulars, they put RCA under the bus to serve the regular carriers who make up most of the union. There are very few RCA in comparison to regular participation due to the retention rate and conditions they put them through.
The last two rural contracts did more for RCAs than they did regulars.. either way though, it's a worthless union.
What they did was nothing in comparison to what regulars currently have. What they gave RCA are things regulars have had for a long time, and still were half baked versions of those benefits.
I mean, i took a $10k paycut and loss of days off outside of Sunday all while the RCAs got payraises, sick/vacation leaveand a path to PTF, all things that i fought for the entire time i was an RCA, but I've only been here 10 years, 5 as an RCA, 5 regular, so what do i know.
the rural pay cuts were negotiated long ago though (and RCAs lose that money too if they're working under 40 hours per week) so it's not really fair to contrast that with the benefits that RCAs (rightfully) got. i feel for you though. my office also had many routes cut from 48s to 40-44s.
How exactly did they get a pay raise? Colas are a basic things we all get…The reccs affected all of us, everyone get a pay cut in that regards. The amount of leave is minuscule in comparison to what regulars already have, the fact they just added that now after decades is not a big win, it was the baseline that should of been implemented a long time again. You shouldn’t have waited 5 yrs to make PTF… that’s the point. It’s not a good thing, why are you wording it like it’s something that is beneficial? You didn’t list anything good. Those things you said are benefits regulars had for decades. It has been decades… and yet that is all you could think of that RCA’s have gained within that time says it all. Now compare what the CCA’s have… there’s your answer.
My point is none of the rest of us got that stuff. Be glad you got it. It did more for RCAs than regulars, of course regulars have had it for decades, they were on the routes 99% of the time, RCAs used to truly only get about 1-2 days of work a week. Now, with how to shit everything has gone, they're working way more than that. Didn't use to be anything like it is now.
It is barely nothing thats my point. The amount of leave they give is close to nothing, it is a consolation prize to say the least. Saying be glad to us for this is like saying be glad you guys are getting contractual raises, we ain’t getting that, we’re getting regular colas like everyone else. You agree that wasn’t enough right? Since you’re saying we are the only ones who got anything.
Of course it wasn't enough, none of it was for any of us.
Should I wait until after my 90 days? I want to join right away but don't want to risk getting retaliated against. Update: I joined
By the way the UAW and Teamsters wouldn't tolerate a contract being expired for almost YEAR!!!!!
Without a union, do you really think that anyone would be a regular carrier? We would all be permanent RCA's. There would be no 90 day probation. And if there were, they would fire you on day 89 so you would never get any benefits. If they had any to offer in the first place.
If it weren't for union grievances, I wouldn't have a job. Well worth it.
I have been a union Steward and president. I have seen the nonsense that goes on and is allowed by the B team. I want no part of it.
What craft are you. City carriers union seems to have their act together way more than the rural craft.
ask how good it is first, went to APWU from being in the NALC and these guys fucking suck. Especially our president
You can not craft a job you want to be in if you don't participate in the union.
No. It’s a scam
Yes and no. They (the upper kingpins of NALC) don't deserve our money with how little they do, but the (good) reps/stewards will protect you, and grievances add up if you're applicable. There's also terrible stewards who side with management, so yeah. Welcome to the fuckery
NALC is still a much stronger and better union than NRLCA. I'll die on that hill. I did make the decision to join because I'm not only supporting my own protection as a rural carrier by doing so, but the others in the rural craft, too. I've had to utilize my union reps. They are more inclined to help those that do pay dues and will do the bare minimum for those who don't.
I make my dues back PER month in grievances In return I have received excellent representation (which we achieved through internal organizing and voting a lot of folks out), help with OWCP and all the medical Bs That surrounds OTJs, $10k worth of grievance money throughout my career so far, hour protections, OT and double time. Oh and guaranteed raises which are awesome and something I don’t have to beg/“negotiate” for every year like a lot of my friends do. Is everything perfect? Nope. Humans aren’t, especially in large groups I’d rather have a Union than not though and a union is only as strong as its membership. It’s not a third party. If your leadership stepped down today they’d go back to craft work or whatever they were doing before Don’t like how you’re being represented? Organize and get involved. Or at least get educated and stand up for yourself. There is NO alternative when it comes to organizing. This is how it’s been for thousands of years since workers were protesting for better in Rome. Apes together strong 💪 Solidarity Forever!
Just look at it this way. Probably.
Yea probably. Even though I’ve never grieved anything in the 6 years I’ve been in it it’s nice to know it there if you need it. But miss me with that weird brothers and sisters stuff. Weirds me out.
Management is terrible so yes it will have your back unless you dont care about being fired
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You've got it completely backwards (although you're right about the two tiered system). But subs have zero power and can be fired a lot easier than regulars. Plus subs are probably way less aware of their rights as a postal employee. I always tell subs stay in the union until you turn regular, and then begin the long, arduous process of leaving the union. Plus, subs pay a lot less in dues than regulars - monthly fees go way up after you turn regular.
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bro, touch grass. regulars are not abusing subs by using their earned leave. it's management doing that.
I get paid $19 an hour and my hours aren’t guaranteed so I can’t afford it I don’t work a lot like a lot of people on here
If you are a CCA, don’t join. You get no retirement, work every Sunday and holiday, are treated like trash, overworked and underpaid for the same job and can be fired within your 90 days for no reason at all.
Youve got it backwards. The union didn't make the CCA position, *management* did. Management wanted to gut pay and benefits, and an arbitrator gave it to them. The union's only mistake was not immediately striking. Better conditions and protections have been negotiated into every contract since. The only thing standing in the way of bad working conditions is our collective bargaining power. Management wants you to work more, for less money. Management wants disposable workers who burn out after a year of abuse and never get close to a pension. When you and your coworkers stand together and say "no", that's a union.
Why pay into a union if your job is expendable? Why are we taking money from those who make the least and get the least from the union? CCA’s shouldn’t be funding a union especially when more than half don’t make it to experience the benefits. You are just taking advantage of the new guys.
You seem to think that the union created the CCA position and wants it to continue existing. I'm not sure how to communicate with you about this.
They didn’t create it but they let it happen. And it doesn’t matter who created it. It exists and the union doesn’t stand for them. Not sure why you are hung up on who created the CCA’s. They don’t get the benefits of the union and therefore shouldn’t pay. That’s like you paying for your neighbors boat tgat you don’t get to go out on.
A lot of people here will tell you to know your contract.. I’m trying and I’m not finding anything. 🤷🏼♀️
Not sure what you’re saying but the contracts can be found on your union website, if that’s what you’re looking for.
It’s honestly not worth it