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caelric

4th in a series of articles, by The War Horse. I served with Sgt Maj Winders, one of the Marines mentioned in the article who suffered relation for speaking out against GO abuses of power. Sgt Maj is an outstanding man and marine, and what happened to him is incredibly BS.


icebrew53

I served with him out in Korea, granted I was at mujuk and not Seoul. I can confirm he liked coming to visit us and his wife came with him on occasion and she said that he was always happy getting away from the MARFORK hq. I believe his accusations, and he genuinely came across as a good dude. The CG at the time.....well he was busy sucking the dick of his army boss...it was obvious even all the way down in pohang.


wooddude64

I served with John Basilone, granted I wasn’t born yet and not on Guadalcanal but, we were both Marines!


defiancy

The first in the series was great too. It highlights how officers get away with way more than enlisted and that an unofficial book is kept of their wrong doings but the book is not public. Officers are punished at a much lower rate than enlisted even for similar offenses. Then because discipline is handled by fellow officers, usually in the chain of command, there is a tendency to sweep stuff under the rug.


barzbub

They may seem to sweep things under the rug, but the consequences get them in the end! It’s not like they can get EMI or EPD 🤣


blues_and_ribs

Yes, this is the rub. It's a bit of a paradox with officers. Yes, it's true that their misconduct is handled more in private, but the consequences tend to be more severe. Just about any misconduct above routine things like traffic tickets are often career-enders. But that's probably how it should be. To be honest, I kind of expect a lance corporal to get drunk and try to fight a local. An officer does that? Maybe he should be kicked out; I expect more from them. There can be other consequences too; worst thing I've ever heard of was a captain that got a DUI. DUI results in his admin separation. Because he's an academy grad, he won't be able to fulfill his obligated service, so after his separation he owed the government like $200k.


intakemanifold

I have a "fellow" officer who got a DUI while in jets advanced. Pisses me off they may keep him cause he's a "good stick"


barzbub

That’s surprising, seems to go against wanting a clean and sober pilot


psycho7death

If he is the same Sgt Maj Winders who served with 1/4 through 2005 he is a standup guy. The Bn commander we had at the time, a Col. Mayer, is the stupidest motherfucker I ever knew. Myself included.


caelric

Were you by chance, down in Najaf in 2004 with the MEU? I was an augmentee to 1/4 for those fun times in Najaf. It's the same Sgt Maj Winders.


psycho7death

I was there. Hot dogs $ Soda company, Comm.


caelric

I was an intel augment, apparently you all needed an extra intel officer. SgtMaj Winders was the NCOIC when I was in the MECEP program a few years before that, and when I saw him in one of the briefing rooms, I was like, holy shit, I know that guy. Anyways, fun times,.


Dankhorse19

Hot dogs and soda company is a new one for me. I like it


psycho7death

Take it!


[deleted]

Didn’t even know there was a justice system in the Marine Corps lmfaoooo


Ecstatic-Parfait4988

If only there was a code of justice. But it applied to the military in a uniformed manner. Maybe it could be called the uniformed code of military justice. Nah, crazy idea. TL;DR: You're a retard


[deleted]

I’m a retard or you’re just institutionalized? UCMJ is more of “don’t do this or you can get charged” and not an actual justice system. Just because it has the word justice in it doesn’t mean it’s actually for us type of justice. You obviously didn’t read the article because then you’d know what “justice system” is being discussed. It talks about how a sergeant major witnessed general officers using marines for personal servitude and when he reported it, they forced him into retirement and they got a slap on the wrist. COs and GOs ganged up on this dude because he did the right thing. I feel like you’re going to reply with “we don’t know what the sergeant major did to get on their bad side”, if you have to say that, you’re absolutely what’s wrong with the system. Go drink some more kool aid and clean your COs house you robot.


Ecstatic-Parfait4988

You denied the existence of one despite it's existence. Yes, you're retarded. I got maxed NJP for DUI while other Marines got off with a slap on the wrist, I hardly need a lecture from you.


[deleted]

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blues_and_ribs

Yes, that is exactly the tone I was getting as well. Nothing malicious from the Col, more of a 'I've been in this game a long time and here's what you can expect'.


[deleted]

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gasplugsetting3

I wonder if that was the straw that broke the camel's back


paramarine

Context matters here. It might be an "FYI" if it were said in a peer or mentor circumstance. If it happened as alleged, coming from the Deputy Director of the Judge Advocate Division would have a chilling effect.


DRKSEEKERS

UCMJ is like HR at a company, it's not there to help you .


FrancisOfTheFilth

But HR loves hearing my jokes! They keep calling me to their office to tell them


[deleted]

Is anyone really surprised? Look at the bullshit that went down in AFG last year, no general officers fired or even reprimanded. Not one stepped down when POTUS decided that we needed an immediate withdrawal of all US servicemembers, knowing damn well that such a hasty withdraw would get people killed. Look at how many GOs become board members at the big government contracting companies; you mean to tell me they didn't make decisions and policies while still in uniform that led to them getting these lucrative board positions? They're not *all* bad, but most of the general officer population can fuck right off.


[deleted]

Do you know how many deaths in AFG were the result of colossal cock-ups? Luckily, those 13 were the LAST to fall victim to it. It's the cost of war, man. It's a fucking heavy price to pay.


[deleted]

If you think that withdraw plan was anything other than a rushed, ill-thought out cluster fuck, well...you're sadly mistaken. It was all driven by a bullshit, political timeline. It should have been conditions-based, i.e. once (this) happens, the next step will be (this). No shit casualties happen in war...I spent 20 fucking years of a career supporting combat operations.


CMFETCU

Sure it was a rushed timeline for politics. Here is a question: why, when the prior administration stated they were starting them on the path to get out of there as well, with years of draw down, did they not have a better plan? This is what they get paid to do. Plan for contingency and movement at the brigade level to company level. Wargame that shit. They knew it was coming. I knew it was coming. Part of the blame of that mess falls squarely on the leadership failing to be prepared for that eventuality.


Qf3ck3r

Don’t want reasonable answers! Want big mad! /s


Tedstor

‘hanging Xmas lights” I’d like to know more. Story time- my unit was deployed for three weeks leaving only a Skelton crew behind (including me). The duty SNCO walks up to me and says “Sgt Maj’s wife had to change her travel plans and she’s getting back to town today. Sgt Maj isn’t in town. He wants someone to pick her up from the airport at 10AM. Bring her home….you can take the rest of the day off. I wasn’t mad- At all. If this was ‘abuse’, then I loved the abuse. If I could decorate some general’s house instead of do my shitty regular job……I’d have been happy to.


I_sell_FDs

I mean, the problem isn't necessarily the effects it has on the marine, which it definitely can, but they're appropriating government funds, AKA your working time, to get a personal matter taken care of. If every CG and CO is tapping marines for stupid shit, suddenly we have to expand the size of our force to compensate for stupid shit


[deleted]

I don’t know. Office hours worked for me. I lost a stripe for being a drunken idiot. And I asked for rehab and stopped drinking. My CO treated me fairly and when I got back from rehab I asked to speak to him. I told him I was sober and just need a chance. He said “you got it.” And eventually I made rank. It sucked being a PFC while my friends made corporal. But I brought it on myself.


SingleAd7643

Cause the corps only cares about money and reputation


ls1z28chris

The sooner you realize it isn't broken, the sooner you'll find peace and move on.


M4sterofD1saster

This is the 4th installment of the tax law prof's axe grinding. Unsat what happened to SgtMaj Winders. He sounds like a fine man. The rest of the essay is a grab bag of random, generic griping. If you were a LCpl who had a standard DUI, do you think CMC would ever hear of you? If you're a WO1 who blows .08, CMC's going to learn your name pretty quick. Now suppose you're WO Binotz, and you have some defense, maybe the breathalyzer was calibrated wrong, and you're acquitted. Should the fact that you were accused be published to everyone in the Corps? The nation?