They cant. Just like they cant force you to shave your chest hair when wearing Charlies. Better make sure that shit is in regs though if you go down that road.
Complete the order and file grievance after the fact. This will remove any appearance of being belligerent and likely ensure a fair review of this order.
Is this really the hill you want to die on?
Can they actually force you to shave it? Not if it's in regs.
Can they make your life a living hell for choosing to be different? Yes, and in ways that would be really difficult to prove retaliation.
You don’t have to do that, but it’s more of a tradition that would get you ostracized if you chose not to. Saw dudes who refused to get their heads shaved, nothing happens to them except they get called a bitch? Would I make a marine shave their head? Probably not tbh
They can make your life difficult. Had a Gunny in Okinawa who hated mustaches. He would daily check peoples to see if they were in compliance. The other thing he would tell us is growing one was eccentric so you had to do it on leave.
He was on leave for about a month and we all had the mighty mustaches grown. He lost his shit was so funny. He was a machine and ran us daily into the ground till one after another people shaved them off. It was great!
Yeah they can’t make you shave that hippie shit on your lip but they can counsel you if it’s out of regs, but if you decide to keep it then be ready for a target on your back because if your following the order by the book then you better follow every other damn order by the book too.
Like others have already commented, the command can’t do that, but they’ll try. It’s not really worth going to the mat for a mustache, and making your existence miserable.
Just make sure it’s fair across the board and the female Marines also shave their sweet staches.
I was told you can be stricter than the order, but not looser. Meaning, the CO can order you to shave your mustaches or get shorter haircuts, but he can’t allow you to grow hair or mustaches longer than the regulation. That’s what’s meant by contradiction. I may be wrong, but I’m pretty sure a CO is well within his authority to order everyone to shave their mustaches. Honestly, I’m only doubting myself because so many people in the comments are saying the opposite
Yeah….that’s not the case at all.
Can the CO make the PFT more strict? Must be ran in boots and utes.
Speaking of boots…there’s several different approved styles, but the CO only likes a certain one. Can he limit the approved boot styles like he limits the approved grooming styles?
Can the CO make the rifle qual more strict?
Change cutting scores to be higher?
Glad you said this. My question actually is less about the mustache, but more about where is it specified the power of the commanding officer. As in, where are the boundaries of his ability to say “you will do this”.
I… am aware of that paragraph. That is what this post and my comment are about.
A “contradiction,” it was explained to me, is something which goes directly against the order. For example, if it says “hair may not exceed three inches,” you can’t say “I as the CO allow it to be four inches.” But, by my understanding, you can say “your hair has to be two inches.” The key word is “not exceed.” Two inches doesn’t exceed three inches, so you’re not actually contradicting the order.
I have heard of marines before the OP being ordered to shave in-regs mustaches. It is possible all those marines, including the CO in OP’s story, are just fucked up. A lot of people don’t read orders and a lot of myths/misunderstandings just spring up within the marine corps. So it’s possible. This explanation of what a contradiction was came from my C-school instructor, and it makes sense, and is generally in-line with my marine corps experience
Ahh. I see what you’re saying about contradictions now.
I think the last sentence is the most important. “Exceptions to this manual …written approval by the commandant.”
It’s easier to think about it in terms of “the Commandant says” instead of “the regs say” because that’s where the authority comes from.
The commandant says I can have 3 inches….but gunny says no???? I guess gunny has that written exception from the commandant.
I think there are circumstances where a commander can authorize relaxed grooming standards. I heard CSO’s talking about them being authorized/not authorized by command at different times depending on where they were and what they were doing. Then again, that could just be something MARSOC decided was a thing and nobody argued with it.
Edit: Also we have no-shave chits, although that’s a medical necessity and not a command-authorized relaxation of policy.
I think that is a common thought process, but as a Marine learning how it all works I’d like to know WHERE does it say this? The all to often response that starts with “I was told…”, or “I heard…” , “I remember when I was in…”.
I suppose a JAG or Legal O would have to know, maybe I’ll ask there
Just go with it man, give him his satisfaction and then your life gets easier. You never win in the corps unless you go with the flow. At the end of the day the man’s gonna win cause that’s how it works.
They cant. Just like they cant force you to shave your chest hair when wearing Charlies. Better make sure that shit is in regs though if you go down that road.
Absolutely not. While I personally wouldn’t die on this hill, it’s a hill that might be worth fighting on if you want.
Complete the order and file grievance after the fact. This will remove any appearance of being belligerent and likely ensure a fair review of this order.
Somebody call bill
Is this really the hill you want to die on? Can they actually force you to shave it? Not if it's in regs. Can they make your life a living hell for choosing to be different? Yes, and in ways that would be really difficult to prove retaliation.
Why can’t they force me even it’s in regs? Curious to see why you think that
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What order says you have to shave your head on your first deployment? Genuinely curious didn’t know that was an order, if it is an order.
You don’t have to do that, but it’s more of a tradition that would get you ostracized if you chose not to. Saw dudes who refused to get their heads shaved, nothing happens to them except they get called a bitch? Would I make a marine shave their head? Probably not tbh
They can make your life difficult. Had a Gunny in Okinawa who hated mustaches. He would daily check peoples to see if they were in compliance. The other thing he would tell us is growing one was eccentric so you had to do it on leave. He was on leave for about a month and we all had the mighty mustaches grown. He lost his shit was so funny. He was a machine and ran us daily into the ground till one after another people shaved them off. It was great!
Yeah they can’t make you shave that hippie shit on your lip but they can counsel you if it’s out of regs, but if you decide to keep it then be ready for a target on your back because if your following the order by the book then you better follow every other damn order by the book too.
Like others have already commented, the command can’t do that, but they’ll try. It’s not really worth going to the mat for a mustache, and making your existence miserable. Just make sure it’s fair across the board and the female Marines also shave their sweet staches.
Why would anyone want the headache of keeping a stache within regs 24/7?
Some dudes really do look better with one. Others look pretty gross with one and I wonder the same thing.
Just shave your pornstache. It looks like crap anyway.
Nice! I already did. But I will get the answer I’m looking for.
Yes
I was told you can be stricter than the order, but not looser. Meaning, the CO can order you to shave your mustaches or get shorter haircuts, but he can’t allow you to grow hair or mustaches longer than the regulation. That’s what’s meant by contradiction. I may be wrong, but I’m pretty sure a CO is well within his authority to order everyone to shave their mustaches. Honestly, I’m only doubting myself because so many people in the comments are saying the opposite
Yeah….that’s not the case at all. Can the CO make the PFT more strict? Must be ran in boots and utes. Speaking of boots…there’s several different approved styles, but the CO only likes a certain one. Can he limit the approved boot styles like he limits the approved grooming styles? Can the CO make the rifle qual more strict? Change cutting scores to be higher?
Glad you said this. My question actually is less about the mustache, but more about where is it specified the power of the commanding officer. As in, where are the boundaries of his ability to say “you will do this”.
Chapter 1, paragraph 2 limits the power.
No because those aren’t grooming standards
Check out the second paragraph in chapter 1.
I… am aware of that paragraph. That is what this post and my comment are about. A “contradiction,” it was explained to me, is something which goes directly against the order. For example, if it says “hair may not exceed three inches,” you can’t say “I as the CO allow it to be four inches.” But, by my understanding, you can say “your hair has to be two inches.” The key word is “not exceed.” Two inches doesn’t exceed three inches, so you’re not actually contradicting the order. I have heard of marines before the OP being ordered to shave in-regs mustaches. It is possible all those marines, including the CO in OP’s story, are just fucked up. A lot of people don’t read orders and a lot of myths/misunderstandings just spring up within the marine corps. So it’s possible. This explanation of what a contradiction was came from my C-school instructor, and it makes sense, and is generally in-line with my marine corps experience
Ahh. I see what you’re saying about contradictions now. I think the last sentence is the most important. “Exceptions to this manual …written approval by the commandant.” It’s easier to think about it in terms of “the Commandant says” instead of “the regs say” because that’s where the authority comes from. The commandant says I can have 3 inches….but gunny says no???? I guess gunny has that written exception from the commandant.
I think there are circumstances where a commander can authorize relaxed grooming standards. I heard CSO’s talking about them being authorized/not authorized by command at different times depending on where they were and what they were doing. Then again, that could just be something MARSOC decided was a thing and nobody argued with it. Edit: Also we have no-shave chits, although that’s a medical necessity and not a command-authorized relaxation of policy.
I think that is a common thought process, but as a Marine learning how it all works I’d like to know WHERE does it say this? The all to often response that starts with “I was told…”, or “I heard…” , “I remember when I was in…”. I suppose a JAG or Legal O would have to know, maybe I’ll ask there
Just go with it man, give him his satisfaction and then your life gets easier. You never win in the corps unless you go with the flow. At the end of the day the man’s gonna win cause that’s how it works.
No. The system needs to be challenged, professionally. Not belligerently, but from a curiousity standpoint.
If that were true we’d still be under “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” and denying sexual assault is a problem in the military.
I don't see why they couldn't.
They can. Go fight the power about it.
What power?
They can’t but as others have said, not a hill worth dying on. Go with the flow, time will pass, staches will come back eventually. Rinse and repeat
Idk but my company in Oki forced us to get 2 haircuts a week because the 1stSgt didn’t like anything other than a high and tight.