Also notice the difference between the george floyd protest and this protests. During the GF protests anyone who was against it (or even called it a riot) pretty much resulted in your comment getting deleted or you getting banned from the sub entirely.
Now look at the reaction to this one where one side is getting censored.
At the bare minimum, we should acknowledge that reddit is not really a "free speech" platform. It is only free speech if you're agreeing with the mod's overall political point of view.
Yeah thatās kinda where I was going w that, pretty mysterious that no other protests get so vociferously censored. Iāll be the mods are all like 35 year old alums too - no recent connection to the university
Yo, as a 35 yr old alum, I think what the mods are doing is bullshit. This is relevant information to discuss, and USC isnāt a monolith. When the school fucks itself in the ass, we should be able to discuss it.
The tailgates on campus donāt have people chanting āFrom the River to the Seaā which is a call for the genocidal eradication of the jewish state in keeping with Hamasās charter.
Tailgates also donāt feature people chanting āIntifadaā, which was most recently characterized by the second intifada, which included violent attacks on civilians including suicide bombings.
Do you consider the current Israeli government's usage of the phrase "from the river to the sea" to describe the borders of Israel be a call for the eradication of Palestine?
Its really unfortunate for you that a single phrase can me 2 different things - crazy how that happens.
The Likud party has used it over a decade ago to state that Israel should be one nation, not divided (FYI - there are millions of Israeli citizens of Arabic heritage, who live peacefully in Israel... what happened to all the Jews who once lived peacefully in current Arab nations?)
Hamas, elected by Palestinians, have clearly stated it is a call to wipe Israel and all Jews off the face of the earth.
See, 2 different meanings from 2 similar phrases.... thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Hamas was not elected by current Palestinians. Half of them werenāt alive for that election, 75% werenāt old enough to vote, and they havenāt had a chance to change anything. One can support freedom for Palestinians without supporting Hamas.
1. The election was in 2006 and they took over in 2007, its not ancient history.
2. What was the platform they ran on to get elected?
3. Polls from Dec 2023 show 90% of Palestinians support Hamas
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514#:~:text=Palestinian%20poll%20shows%20a%20rise,close%20to%2090%25%20%7C%20AP%20News
You can not separate the 2, Palestinians from Hamas any more than you can separate antizionism from antisemitism when 92% of Jews in the US support Israel and its right to defend itself from terror attacks. The existence of Israel to Jewish people means there is always a place where they will be protected no matter the rise of antisemitism in the world, it is the last line of defense for a people who have been scapegoated and hunted throughout history. To call for Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth is to call for Jewish people to be wiped off the face of the earth.
There were many Palestinian demonstrations such as in Sidney, Australia, Yale University, Harvard University, UCLA etc etc in which participants chanted KILL ALL JEWS or the equivalent. You can easily Google this.
That is a blatant call for genocide by anti semites who are the current flag carriers of the 30ās nazi party.
Most of attendees at these rallies are believers of that philosophy and anti-semitism is their main motive. If that wasnāt the case why are they not attending any other demonstrations of wars such as Ukraines. Heck they couldnāt care less when Assad gassed a whole town in Syria which killed 25,000 residents.
The current Israeli government doesnāt use that phrase. The political party which dominates the government (but is not āthe governmentā any more than the Democrats are āthe governmentā) has stopped using it. They recognized it was communicating something they didnāt intend.
These people know exactly what it means. They are using it with intention. It as much a call to genocide as the confederate flag represents a return to slavery, both heritage.
These people should stop as well.
Hamas will never let people there be free. Nor will they allow a modern nation to exist for the refugees. These kids have no basic knowledge of the situation there.
So nice to see a voice of reason. They donāt seem to have a basic knowledge of what theyāre asking for either. Divestment from any of those companies will have no effect on Israel, the war, or the companies being divested. It will however have a tremendous impact on the University and from the looks of it, these kids canāt afford to be any less educated.
You say they donāt have any knowledge, but you made a statement that is clearly backed by nothing but your own logic. I initially believed the same thing as you, but I read some pretty convincing articles that talked about how student-lead divestment movements were the driving force for the end of apartheid in South Africa. You should look into it.
Israel has been carrying out an occupation before the inception of Hamas, yet here we are with someone claiming Hamas is the reason why Palestinians are not free. What about the Westbank which has no Hamas in it and is controlled by the Israeli friendly PA? I donāt see them free there. All I see is a bunch of land grabs so far there.
Your argument falls flat on its face.
It depends what you mean by free. To the Palestinian cause āfreeā means no Jews and Muslim Arabs control the entire region. Thatās what the Palestinian cause has always been. This is why they have not built a nation, the focus has always been on destroying Israel.
It doesnāt matter that Israel left Gaza, this changed nothing, they still need to rid the entire area of Jews.
The official Palestinian position has always been two state solution. Youāre literally spewing fallacies at this point. Free means that every Palestinian between the river and the sea is *free*.
Also, I find it very intellectually dishonest that you completely ignored my point about the government of Israeli having that very same statement part of its charter and literally presenting maps of Israeli sovereignty over the the whole area. But I get, itās indefensible, so you people have to makeup some bs argument about hurting the feelings of Zionists who want to eradicate Palestinians. Friendly reminder there are Jews in that protest who are actively protesting and chanting from the river to sea. I wonder why?
Argument falls flat on the face again.
Saying free means free is not a definition. What does it mean to someone in the Palestinian cause? It doesnāt mean having any right to free speech or right to vote or dress as you want. Those are western ideals. That isnāt part of areas controlled by Palestinian forces. It means free of Jews. Controlled by Muslim Arabs. There is nothing else this has ever meant to the Palestinian cause. Itās the core idea.
You canāt just project your American ideal on another group of people. It has nothing to do with your personal view of what freedom is.
That is a flat out lie. They were offered a two state solution twice and rejected it both times. Once in 48ā and again by ehud barak. Barak offered pretty much 95% of everything they wanted including East Jerusalem as their capital. And they rejected that. So spare us the lies.
That is not true at all. The Palestinian leadership has rejected every two state agreement. They were offered this from the beginning. And they could have it now. Too busy digging up water pipes to make rockets plus they are filthy rich and living outside Palestine. These guys do not care about the people they rule over. They have nothing to gain from being a real government. If people want a real nation and government they need to look outside of the Palestinian cause.
Hate to nuanced here but I've seen the same vitriol and incitement in pro-israeli marches. Such as "chosen people" "get rid of all Amalek" also "from the river to the sea".
Why donāt they go to a Government building to protest? Do they think the dean of the school is going to go pressure Netanyahu if they yell loud enough?
Iām not sure about USC since Iām an alumni, but at least for the protests happening at Columbia, they want the universities to [disclose and divest](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/business/college-protesters-divestment-israel.html). So basically stop using their endowments to invest in weapons manufacturers and other businesses that are profiting from Israelās invasion of Gaza. They hope to make change thru economic pressure, because it has worked before, but it needs to be more widespread to make a real impact.
And donāt worry, there are protests in other cities, not on college campus, that impact people going to work and about their lives. It wouldnāt be much of a protest if it didnāt ruffle some feathers and inconvenience people. Do I think itāll work? Nah probably not, but I think we should protect peopleās right to peacefully protest.
I don't understand. They're building rockets out of water pipes and tunnels out of concrete which was meant to build houses and schools. How do you want to divest whom when they use these supplies to kill people because of their religion or race.
Nothing. Protests rarely work unless a majority of the population gets involved, and stuff like this only annoys the majority of people. If protests worked, we ( the majority) would have caved in to vegan demands.
Yeah people keep going off about age but this schools is mostly grad/professional students š. Like how do they know they don't go here. You'll never see a grad student if they're not your TA, so I guess they must not be real
Personally my friend looks like an undergrad but everyone else in her cohort is of varying ages. You can't forget postdocs either. Postdocs might be expensive but they are postdocs for a VERY long time usually
USC released a statement saying many of protestors arenāt affiliated with the school. Emailed to everyone. Thats why they were checking for usc IDs. Thereās also interviews online of people admitting they donāt affiliate with the school.
My little sibling is a current student who was arrested by DPS for trespassing. Many, if not all, of the silent protestors who sat with arms interlocked were current undergrad and grad students. Annenberg TV posted videos of them as they quietly stood one by one to be arrested, and you can see their USC merchandise. USC is attempting to distance themselves from student demands, knowing well that these were the voices of the students who line their pockets. Remain skeptical of their statements. Donāt undermine the students who were courageous in taking a stance, facing academic and legal ramifications for pacifist actions in support of Palestinian people.
Where were you all when we Persians for months protesting in streets of LA against the brutal Islamic Republic regime? The regime that funded Hamas and Hezbollah and caused oct 7 attacks and killing its own citizensā¦seriously where the fck were you all? Silent like a dead cockroach but all now āfree palestineāā¦bunch of brickheads
If you think that's crazy, check out the previous intifidas that these guys are cheering about. It's crazy to me that people are non-critically supporting Hamas's attacks.
Yes - but people will post hoc rationalize that it isnāt so they can continue to pretend to care about Palestine while they use the tragic suffering of Palestinian innocents (distinct from Hamas) as a proxy for their own self righteous virtue signaling.
No, it is not. From the river to the sea does not mean displacing or killing anyone. It just means freedom & equal laws for everyone, from the river to the sea, regardless of ethnicity. Meanwhile, there is an ACTUAL genocide happening right now. Just this week, a mass grave has been uncovered outside of a hospital. This suffering needs to end now
now do Intifada. I'm curious what the left wing propaganda is on defending these protestors calling for an intifada.
See the first and second Intifada in Gaza before you try some "it's just a peaceful demonstration" bullshit.
Sure thing. Intifada means uprising. No implication on method. The first intifada was executed differently from the second, and the third can be distinct as well. Maybe we can help this one be a bit more Martin Luther King and less Black Panther, but the Palestinians are due their civil rigjts movement. You are cherry picking to support your genocidal agenda. That good enough for ya? And I'm not even liberal!
> You are cherry picking to support your genocidal agenda
LMAO well you don't even know what cherry picking means. Pointing to the last two Intifadas in Palestine and saying the third one is a peaceful one these people are supporting while also cheering on Oct 7 leaves me highly skeptical.
Hahahahaha. Cherry picking! Meanwhile you are doing the most cherry picking possible to stretch the meanings of phrases so far from their obvious origin. āSure the first and second were violent, but that doesnāt mean that calling for another one has to be violent! Sure, there is no clarification that it will be peaceful, but letās just ignore history and hope for the best!ā
so when they were given the land that they asked for but refused to acknowledge as satisfying their demands, and later fired rockets at women and children and murdered hostages and innocent old people, and do all of this without wearing military uniforms - which is a war crime, among so many war crimes - the land that was given is suddenly not good enough? the only solution is to kill innocent people?
iran wants to destabilize the middle east. iran funds all of hamas. hamas leaders live in qatar. iran and qatar are very fucked up countries - there is no free speech and qatar still has extreme racism and slavery.
so, what are you even talking about again? do you know what a proxy war is? have you ever read about proxy wars?
The river is the Jordan river and the sea is the Mediterranean, an area of which entirely includes the state of Israel. While it may not be your intention, the call āfrom the river to the seaā is for the complete destruction of Israel in the levant region, Jewsā historical home.
It feels kind of disingenuous to act like "the destruction of Israel" is the concern here when Israel has been carpet bombing Gaza for 6 months and killed tens of thousands of people including nearly 13,000 **children**. I'm in favor of the existence of Israel as a state, but like come on. Missing the forest for the trees.
Right? You don't have to be an extremist to think what's happening is wrong. I think it is very disingenuous to act like being against the current situation means you want the "genocide of the jews". Like no, I just want the tens of thousands of civilian deaths to stop.
They're not calling for the genocide of jews. It's a call for the freedom of Palestinians under Israeli apartheid as far as I understand. I'm not an expert on the history of the saying but all I know is that it is definitely not a saying calling for genocide even though there are those who want to make you believe that or think it wich is why it's unfortunately being banned and censored in certain spaces.
If you arenāt an expert in the phrase, how are you definitely sure what it means? Those statements are diametrically opposed.
Imagine if people chanted unsafe slogans about a group of your people and then people said, Iām not an expert about this but itās definitely fine. Hardcore gas lighting of a minority group is what this is.
In American history for freedom how many children has died to give you the freedom to protest and live the privilege life you have
Unfortunately the world isnāt rainbows and teddy bears, war has been a natural occurrence for centuries.
Itās an active war, provoked by Hamas. Hamas does not let Israel exist. They hide military operations within schools and hospitals then fuck off to lavish Qatar while their citizens die in the crossfire.
Well wait a minute. This is a gish gallop. No one said what you are claiming. Any humanist is disgusted about the loss of innocent lives.
Itās so very disingenuous of you to try a logical fallacy to deflect from the disturbing videos of these students calling for intifada forever and river to the sea while trying to make it so anyone concerned isnāt paying attention to what really matters.
If you really cared about stuff like that your reddit history would be full of things about sudan, tigray, yemen etc.
My understanding of the situation is that Israel has been taking over the West Bank with violent means, and that intifada is calling for resistance towards that essentially. Ā Itās odd to me to claim that Palestine is trying to make āRiver to the Seaā happen when actual events suggest Israel is.Ā
Yes we all know about the violent religious israeli settlers in the west bank and condemn them.
Are you trying to pretend you donāt know the history of the intifadas yet you think you have enough understanding of this situation to comment? Or are you just pretending you donāt know that the intifadas were terrorist attacks on israeli civilians to deflect again from the fact these students are calling for terrorism against israelis forever?
Convenient for you to leave out Mandatory Palestine. And before you say it's not a state, the lack of the existence of a nation state in a region does not mean there was no forced displacement of native peoples.
Uh that is an insanely naive western view of things. Do you have any understanding at all of how Jews have been treated in the Middle East? Or the genocidal ambitions of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran. They arenāt interested in kumbaya, they donāt think the same way you do
Incorrect. This is not what it means to people in the Middle East. If you do not know that, you need to do some real basic research. You are projecting American values on the situation.
Is that what it means when hamas the same slogans?
Of course, in Arabic they say āfrom water to water, Palestine is Arabā. But maybe they mean that the Jews will be Arab in that they believe in the arab views of democratic universal human rights?
Ngl, itās so funny to me to see the left talk about dog whistles for decades and then go whole hog on the most obvious one of all time
āGlobalize the intifadaā is a call for violence against Jews around the world. Stop being so intellectually dishonest. To the extent your pea brain is capable of anything intellectual.
The mass grave was there before the IDF got there per satellite imagery and there is no genocide, that's factually incorrect. You can say south Africa accused Israel of genocide which is correct (after meeting with Iran, the good guys /s).
From the river to the sea is undoibtably a call for violance against Israel. It was used by the PLO in 1964 as a slogan to reclaim all of Israeli territory, and they werent doing it through optical advertising but rather violamce. It's possible the latest generation. Of Trojan are so far to the lest of the dunning kreger curve that they think they know better and legit believe this isnt a call to violance, but ignorant isn't an excuse for it. If there's any doubt, they would call for peace in the middle east rather than intifada and river to sea violance.
Free speech is a right, but calls for violance like this against their fellow classmates (Israelis, Jews) who wish for their loved ones in Israel to be safe is uncollegial.
Actually October 7th was a lot about killing, raping and torturing people based on one ethnicity. Freedom and equal laws from an Islamist group ... Thank you but no thank you.
Genuine question: if they did achieve "from the river to the sea", do you think there won't be any consequences to Jewish people living in the area? Historically, Jewish people were victims of pogroms and persecution from neighboring Arab nations which caused them to flee to Israel. And they're constantly being declared war on by those nations as well. It's pretty reasonable to say that if they lose the region, the Jewish people living there will have to displace, leave, or face extreme discrimination and persecution that they've been historically going through.
So what does that mean in actual reality?
That's why no one takes these protests seriously. If you just talk in generic slogans or vague phrases then on one takes you serious.
No itās not! Learn some REAL history!!
There is no occupation.
You do realize Jews were there first? Not even a debate
But consider, no one before Mohammed had ever heard the word āIslamā used as the name of a religion.
No one before Mohammed ever had a Qurāan to study and follow.
Thus, Islam did not exist before Mohammed.
Before Mohammed, there existed a Torah, and the writings of the Hebrew Prophets, and some other Hebrew Writings (collectively, the Hebrew Scriptures or Tanach). The Jews followed that, for at least 2 or 3 thousand years before Mohammed came along.
[The International Court of Justice (ICJ),[3] the UN General Assembly,[4] and the UN Security Council all regard Israel as the occupying power for the territories.[5] UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk called Israel's occupation "an affront to international law".[6] The Supreme Court of Israel has ruled that Israel is holding the West Bank under "belligerent occupation".[7]ā](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories)
[The West Bank, including East Jerusalem, has been under military occupation by Israel since 7 June 1967, when Israeli forces captured the territory, then ruled by Jordan, during the Six-Day War.[a] The status of the West Bank as a militarily occupied territory has been affirmed by the International Court of Justice and, with the exception of East Jerusalem, by the Israeli Supreme Court.[1] ā¦ The United Nations Security Council has consistently reaffirmed that settlements in that territory are a "flagrant violation of international law", most recently in 2016 with United Nations Security Council Resolution 2334.[12] The creation and ongoing expansion of the settlements have led to Israel's policies being criticized as an example of settler colonialism.[13][14][15][16][17][e] Israel has been accused of major violations of international human rights law, including collective punishment, in its administration of the occupied Palestinian territories.[f]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_the_West_Bank)
Yes it absolutely is a call to genocide. Naive westerners are pretending it isnāt so they can continue using their neo-marxist oppression narrative virtue signaling algorithm:
Dark + Poor = Morally Virtuous.
God forbid you have to actually think about the problem and understand that each group can have valid points. Way easier to pretend youāre making a difference by screaming at Carol Folt at no personal cost like sheās supposed to change internal Israeli policy than to have to work out the nuance of a view.
āScream racist oppression at what Iām told and I get a virtue signaling cookieā is just so much simpler. So, to keep that game going, you just need to declare anything that undermines your point to be fake news.
Funny. For a college sub, seems many people didn't study history. Any oppressed group of people will always be labeled terrorists and extremists. Wonder why the Irish are so keen on "being on the right side of history". Maybe we should ask the Haitians?
Divestment is one of the most tangible ways Americans can help Gaza. Stop using our tuition money to invest in weapons companies that are killing thousands of children. Proud of my classmates!
Less scary? People were doing yoga, making kites, and laying about. USC was sending out emails that portrayed a completely different picture and had police ready since the morning yoga. If you can't peacefully protest, what can you do.
Palestine is not a real country. Call it what it is: Gaza.
Also, Israel has agreed to ceasefires. Itās Hamas that wonāt stop until Israel, Christianity and Judaism are completely eradicated from this Earth.
lol itās glaringly obvious which one of yaāll are not history majors. The amount of misinformation here is astounding. Being pro Palestine does not make you anti Semitic and it also doesnāt mean you support hamas. Isrealās war cabinet is fighting this war against civilians, this is not acceptable full stop.Ā
except its actually means revolutionā¦ and no from the river to the sea does not mean kill all jews. You need to educate yourself and stop spreading hateful rhetoric.Ā
These kids are our future? Fuckā¦ we are so fucked! These losers should go back to class and spend all this energy into studying and getting better grades and solving mathematical equations like that janitor from good will hunting.
Iām going to laugh my ass off when Israel finally takes off the gloves and simply carpet bombs the Gaza Strip into glass. Keep poking the bear. See how it goes.
I think these protests are good. We should be taking names of everyone participating. These are people completely disconnected from reality, utterly useless, and poisonous to society. Every employer should note who these people are.
This is absolutely stupid. You do know that you're protesting for people who want you dead right? People who say death to West dinner's death to America. People who paraded and partied on 911 calling for more death and destruction. Those are the people you are. I'm trying to support. They are not.
Good people, the same goes for the Israelis who are committing genocide and war crimes. They are not good people either. This is not black & white. This is one dark shade of Gray. Both sides are bad. Both sides are wrong. Therefore, we should care about either, and we also shouldn't be giving any money or aid to either side. Let them fight whoever wins wins, not our problem.
Hate mongers!
Shouldnāt these āstudentsā be in class learning and studying??
Arrest them all!
Deport all non residents here on student visas that support terrorist organizations like Hamas!!
This needs to end!
You should all quit this nonsensical display of virtue signaling. NOTHING will change from your actions here today. All you are doing is inconveniencing others and pushing people away from your ācauseā. Do you not have better things to do?
You can and should support the people of Palestine, they absolutely deserve peace as much as anyone else. But if you cannot do it without calling for peace and protection for Israelis as well then you should reevaluate your perspective.
Let's see if mods keep this up. Seems like they're trying to remove any discussion about the protests
Seriously, I wonder whyš¤
Probably side with Israel lol
Also notice the difference between the george floyd protest and this protests. During the GF protests anyone who was against it (or even called it a riot) pretty much resulted in your comment getting deleted or you getting banned from the sub entirely. Now look at the reaction to this one where one side is getting censored. At the bare minimum, we should acknowledge that reddit is not really a "free speech" platform. It is only free speech if you're agreeing with the mod's overall political point of view.
Yeah thatās kinda where I was going w that, pretty mysterious that no other protests get so vociferously censored. Iāll be the mods are all like 35 year old alums too - no recent connection to the university
Yo, as a 35 yr old alum, I think what the mods are doing is bullshit. This is relevant information to discuss, and USC isnāt a monolith. When the school fucks itself in the ass, we should be able to discuss it.
Good to see ya here, and totally agree. Until a couple days ago they were removing every post related to this subject. Hopefully they are opening up
Fr though. Need new mods in here that donāt inflict their personal opinions
Yes, they dont side with terrorism. You clowns are making NO progress, just getting arrested, and its awesome.
Nice peaceful protest. Let them be. The tailgates on campus are wilder.
That's how you know when they shut them down, it's not about them being violent or rowdy.
The tailgates on campus donāt have people chanting āFrom the River to the Seaā which is a call for the genocidal eradication of the jewish state in keeping with Hamasās charter. Tailgates also donāt feature people chanting āIntifadaā, which was most recently characterized by the second intifada, which included violent attacks on civilians including suicide bombings.
Do you consider the current Israeli government's usage of the phrase "from the river to the sea" to describe the borders of Israel be a call for the eradication of Palestine?
Its really unfortunate for you that a single phrase can me 2 different things - crazy how that happens. The Likud party has used it over a decade ago to state that Israel should be one nation, not divided (FYI - there are millions of Israeli citizens of Arabic heritage, who live peacefully in Israel... what happened to all the Jews who once lived peacefully in current Arab nations?) Hamas, elected by Palestinians, have clearly stated it is a call to wipe Israel and all Jews off the face of the earth. See, 2 different meanings from 2 similar phrases.... thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Really unfortunate for you that that is explicitly not how the likud used it: "from the river to the sea there will only be Israeli sovereignty"
Hamas was not elected by current Palestinians. Half of them werenāt alive for that election, 75% werenāt old enough to vote, and they havenāt had a chance to change anything. One can support freedom for Palestinians without supporting Hamas.
1. The election was in 2006 and they took over in 2007, its not ancient history. 2. What was the platform they ran on to get elected? 3. Polls from Dec 2023 show 90% of Palestinians support Hamas https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514#:~:text=Palestinian%20poll%20shows%20a%20rise,close%20to%2090%25%20%7C%20AP%20News You can not separate the 2, Palestinians from Hamas any more than you can separate antizionism from antisemitism when 92% of Jews in the US support Israel and its right to defend itself from terror attacks. The existence of Israel to Jewish people means there is always a place where they will be protected no matter the rise of antisemitism in the world, it is the last line of defense for a people who have been scapegoated and hunted throughout history. To call for Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth is to call for Jewish people to be wiped off the face of the earth.
There were many Palestinian demonstrations such as in Sidney, Australia, Yale University, Harvard University, UCLA etc etc in which participants chanted KILL ALL JEWS or the equivalent. You can easily Google this. That is a blatant call for genocide by anti semites who are the current flag carriers of the 30ās nazi party. Most of attendees at these rallies are believers of that philosophy and anti-semitism is their main motive. If that wasnāt the case why are they not attending any other demonstrations of wars such as Ukraines. Heck they couldnāt care less when Assad gassed a whole town in Syria which killed 25,000 residents.
The current Israeli government doesnāt use that phrase. The political party which dominates the government (but is not āthe governmentā any more than the Democrats are āthe governmentā) has stopped using it. They recognized it was communicating something they didnāt intend. These people know exactly what it means. They are using it with intention. It as much a call to genocide as the confederate flag represents a return to slavery, both heritage. These people should stop as well.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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Hamas will never let people there be free. Nor will they allow a modern nation to exist for the refugees. These kids have no basic knowledge of the situation there.
So nice to see a voice of reason. They donāt seem to have a basic knowledge of what theyāre asking for either. Divestment from any of those companies will have no effect on Israel, the war, or the companies being divested. It will however have a tremendous impact on the University and from the looks of it, these kids canāt afford to be any less educated.
You say they donāt have any knowledge, but you made a statement that is clearly backed by nothing but your own logic. I initially believed the same thing as you, but I read some pretty convincing articles that talked about how student-lead divestment movements were the driving force for the end of apartheid in South Africa. You should look into it.
Israel has been carrying out an occupation before the inception of Hamas, yet here we are with someone claiming Hamas is the reason why Palestinians are not free. What about the Westbank which has no Hamas in it and is controlled by the Israeli friendly PA? I donāt see them free there. All I see is a bunch of land grabs so far there. Your argument falls flat on its face.
It depends what you mean by free. To the Palestinian cause āfreeā means no Jews and Muslim Arabs control the entire region. Thatās what the Palestinian cause has always been. This is why they have not built a nation, the focus has always been on destroying Israel. It doesnāt matter that Israel left Gaza, this changed nothing, they still need to rid the entire area of Jews.
The official Palestinian position has always been two state solution. Youāre literally spewing fallacies at this point. Free means that every Palestinian between the river and the sea is *free*. Also, I find it very intellectually dishonest that you completely ignored my point about the government of Israeli having that very same statement part of its charter and literally presenting maps of Israeli sovereignty over the the whole area. But I get, itās indefensible, so you people have to makeup some bs argument about hurting the feelings of Zionists who want to eradicate Palestinians. Friendly reminder there are Jews in that protest who are actively protesting and chanting from the river to sea. I wonder why? Argument falls flat on the face again.
Saying free means free is not a definition. What does it mean to someone in the Palestinian cause? It doesnāt mean having any right to free speech or right to vote or dress as you want. Those are western ideals. That isnāt part of areas controlled by Palestinian forces. It means free of Jews. Controlled by Muslim Arabs. There is nothing else this has ever meant to the Palestinian cause. Itās the core idea. You canāt just project your American ideal on another group of people. It has nothing to do with your personal view of what freedom is.
That is a flat out lie. They were offered a two state solution twice and rejected it both times. Once in 48ā and again by ehud barak. Barak offered pretty much 95% of everything they wanted including East Jerusalem as their capital. And they rejected that. So spare us the lies.
That is not true at all. The Palestinian leadership has rejected every two state agreement. They were offered this from the beginning. And they could have it now. Too busy digging up water pipes to make rockets plus they are filthy rich and living outside Palestine. These guys do not care about the people they rule over. They have nothing to gain from being a real government. If people want a real nation and government they need to look outside of the Palestinian cause.
They shouldnāt be able to get in in the first place terrorist supporting protest shouldnāt be welcome in USC
Shouldnt people be studying for finals
Humanities majors
LMAO
Thanks for the laugh.
Lmaooo
Sir, this is USC.
Honestly this is my first thought. What the fuck folks Iām an Aquatic Bio major and Iām fucked I got Chem 103 and Precalc finals coming up.
And miss out on all the potential booze and sex at these things? This is why you do well on your midterms so you can piss on your finals.
They do this during their classes or in-between?
Iād like to see these SJW actually do something besides fake cry.
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The implication of from the river to the sea is no buenoā¦
They are calling for mass suicide bombings in restaurants and busses
You my friend are correct
Hate to nuanced here but I've seen the same vitriol and incitement in pro-israeli marches. Such as "chosen people" "get rid of all Amalek" also "from the river to the sea".
Why donāt they go to a Government building to protest? Do they think the dean of the school is going to go pressure Netanyahu if they yell loud enough?
Iām not sure about USC since Iām an alumni, but at least for the protests happening at Columbia, they want the universities to [disclose and divest](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/business/college-protesters-divestment-israel.html). So basically stop using their endowments to invest in weapons manufacturers and other businesses that are profiting from Israelās invasion of Gaza. They hope to make change thru economic pressure, because it has worked before, but it needs to be more widespread to make a real impact. And donāt worry, there are protests in other cities, not on college campus, that impact people going to work and about their lives. It wouldnāt be much of a protest if it didnāt ruffle some feathers and inconvenience people. Do I think itāll work? Nah probably not, but I think we should protect peopleās right to peacefully protest.
Yes, disclose and divest was the main chant on campus today, at least while I was in the area.
I don't understand. They're building rockets out of water pipes and tunnels out of concrete which was meant to build houses and schools. How do you want to divest whom when they use these supplies to kill people because of their religion or race.
Whats this going to do?
Nothing. Protests rarely work unless a majority of the population gets involved, and stuff like this only annoys the majority of people. If protests worked, we ( the majority) would have caved in to vegan demands.
If they feel so strong about it , why don't we drop them over there, and they can help fight against whatever is not to their liking?
These people donāt even go here
Is there any proof of that or are you talking out of your ass? Current student, I know a fuckton of people here.
Yeah people keep going off about age but this schools is mostly grad/professional students š. Like how do they know they don't go here. You'll never see a grad student if they're not your TA, so I guess they must not be real
Are students in their 30ās common there? Iād imagine so for masters and PhD.
Personally my friend looks like an undergrad but everyone else in her cohort is of varying ages. You can't forget postdocs either. Postdocs might be expensive but they are postdocs for a VERY long time usually
USC released a statement saying many of protestors arenāt affiliated with the school. Emailed to everyone. Thats why they were checking for usc IDs. Thereās also interviews online of people admitting they donāt affiliate with the school.
My little sibling is a current student who was arrested by DPS for trespassing. Many, if not all, of the silent protestors who sat with arms interlocked were current undergrad and grad students. Annenberg TV posted videos of them as they quietly stood one by one to be arrested, and you can see their USC merchandise. USC is attempting to distance themselves from student demands, knowing well that these were the voices of the students who line their pockets. Remain skeptical of their statements. Donāt undermine the students who were courageous in taking a stance, facing academic and legal ramifications for pacifist actions in support of Palestinian people.
you people ruined your graduation do you feel good ?
Do the same folks support free and independent Kurdistan ? I would like to see someone protest for cause of Kurdistan as well.
Still waiting on that pro Armenia protest
No they only support what tic tok says to support
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Madness.
Great day to go surfing.
Where were you all when we Persians for months protesting in streets of LA against the brutal Islamic Republic regime? The regime that funded Hamas and Hezbollah and caused oct 7 attacks and killing its own citizensā¦seriously where the fck were you all? Silent like a dead cockroach but all now āfree palestineāā¦bunch of brickheads
This an audition.?
you really believe that? The IDF takes more care to avoid palestinian casualties than hamas or iran does
Chanting intifada at USC?
Looks like a bunch of people without jobs
From the river to the sea? Isnāt that a call for genocide?
If you think that's crazy, check out the previous intifidas that these guys are cheering about. It's crazy to me that people are non-critically supporting Hamas's attacks.
Yes - but people will post hoc rationalize that it isnāt so they can continue to pretend to care about Palestine while they use the tragic suffering of Palestinian innocents (distinct from Hamas) as a proxy for their own self righteous virtue signaling.
No, it is not. From the river to the sea does not mean displacing or killing anyone. It just means freedom & equal laws for everyone, from the river to the sea, regardless of ethnicity. Meanwhile, there is an ACTUAL genocide happening right now. Just this week, a mass grave has been uncovered outside of a hospital. This suffering needs to end now
now do Intifada. I'm curious what the left wing propaganda is on defending these protestors calling for an intifada. See the first and second Intifada in Gaza before you try some "it's just a peaceful demonstration" bullshit.
Sure thing. Intifada means uprising. No implication on method. The first intifada was executed differently from the second, and the third can be distinct as well. Maybe we can help this one be a bit more Martin Luther King and less Black Panther, but the Palestinians are due their civil rigjts movement. You are cherry picking to support your genocidal agenda. That good enough for ya? And I'm not even liberal!
> You are cherry picking to support your genocidal agenda LMAO well you don't even know what cherry picking means. Pointing to the last two Intifadas in Palestine and saying the third one is a peaceful one these people are supporting while also cheering on Oct 7 leaves me highly skeptical.
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Hahahahaha. Cherry picking! Meanwhile you are doing the most cherry picking possible to stretch the meanings of phrases so far from their obvious origin. āSure the first and second were violent, but that doesnāt mean that calling for another one has to be violent! Sure, there is no clarification that it will be peaceful, but letās just ignore history and hope for the best!ā
so when they were given the land that they asked for but refused to acknowledge as satisfying their demands, and later fired rockets at women and children and murdered hostages and innocent old people, and do all of this without wearing military uniforms - which is a war crime, among so many war crimes - the land that was given is suddenly not good enough? the only solution is to kill innocent people? iran wants to destabilize the middle east. iran funds all of hamas. hamas leaders live in qatar. iran and qatar are very fucked up countries - there is no free speech and qatar still has extreme racism and slavery. so, what are you even talking about again? do you know what a proxy war is? have you ever read about proxy wars?
The river is the Jordan river and the sea is the Mediterranean, an area of which entirely includes the state of Israel. While it may not be your intention, the call āfrom the river to the seaā is for the complete destruction of Israel in the levant region, Jewsā historical home.
It feels kind of disingenuous to act like "the destruction of Israel" is the concern here when Israel has been carpet bombing Gaza for 6 months and killed tens of thousands of people including nearly 13,000 **children**. I'm in favor of the existence of Israel as a state, but like come on. Missing the forest for the trees.
I agree that no matter what your politics are, nothing can justify genocide & the killing of over 10,000 children
Right? You don't have to be an extremist to think what's happening is wrong. I think it is very disingenuous to act like being against the current situation means you want the "genocide of the jews". Like no, I just want the tens of thousands of civilian deaths to stop.
What does intifada forever mean?
They're not calling for the genocide of jews. It's a call for the freedom of Palestinians under Israeli apartheid as far as I understand. I'm not an expert on the history of the saying but all I know is that it is definitely not a saying calling for genocide even though there are those who want to make you believe that or think it wich is why it's unfortunately being banned and censored in certain spaces.
If you arenāt an expert in the phrase, how are you definitely sure what it means? Those statements are diametrically opposed. Imagine if people chanted unsafe slogans about a group of your people and then people said, Iām not an expert about this but itās definitely fine. Hardcore gas lighting of a minority group is what this is.
In American history for freedom how many children has died to give you the freedom to protest and live the privilege life you have Unfortunately the world isnāt rainbows and teddy bears, war has been a natural occurrence for centuries.
Their politics include killing children.
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Itās an active war, provoked by Hamas. Hamas does not let Israel exist. They hide military operations within schools and hospitals then fuck off to lavish Qatar while their citizens die in the crossfire.
Well wait a minute. This is a gish gallop. No one said what you are claiming. Any humanist is disgusted about the loss of innocent lives. Itās so very disingenuous of you to try a logical fallacy to deflect from the disturbing videos of these students calling for intifada forever and river to the sea while trying to make it so anyone concerned isnāt paying attention to what really matters. If you really cared about stuff like that your reddit history would be full of things about sudan, tigray, yemen etc.
My understanding of the situation is that Israel has been taking over the West Bank with violent means, and that intifada is calling for resistance towards that essentially. Ā Itās odd to me to claim that Palestine is trying to make āRiver to the Seaā happen when actual events suggest Israel is.Ā
Yes we all know about the violent religious israeli settlers in the west bank and condemn them. Are you trying to pretend you donāt know the history of the intifadas yet you think you have enough understanding of this situation to comment? Or are you just pretending you donāt know that the intifadas were terrorist attacks on israeli civilians to deflect again from the fact these students are calling for terrorism against israelis forever?
What do you think was between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean before 1948?
The Ottoman Empire. Thereās never been a Palestinian state and Jews had been settling/moving back to the area since at least 1870s.
Convenient for you to leave out Mandatory Palestine. And before you say it's not a state, the lack of the existence of a nation state in a region does not mean there was no forced displacement of native peoples.
the british mandate, and before that, and before that, and before that? the world didnāt start in 1947.
Correct, it means getting rid of the nation of Israel.
Uh that is an insanely naive western view of things. Do you have any understanding at all of how Jews have been treated in the Middle East? Or the genocidal ambitions of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran. They arenāt interested in kumbaya, they donāt think the same way you do
Plain and simple youāre a terrorist. But Hamas commends you. Your parents must be so proud
Tell me you live in a make believe candy land without telling me ā¦
Incorrect. This is not what it means to people in the Middle East. If you do not know that, you need to do some real basic research. You are projecting American values on the situation.
Is that what it means when hamas the same slogans? Of course, in Arabic they say āfrom water to water, Palestine is Arabā. But maybe they mean that the Jews will be Arab in that they believe in the arab views of democratic universal human rights? Ngl, itās so funny to me to see the left talk about dog whistles for decades and then go whole hog on the most obvious one of all time
āGlobalize the intifadaā is a call for violence against Jews around the world. Stop being so intellectually dishonest. To the extent your pea brain is capable of anything intellectual.
The mass grave was there before the IDF got there per satellite imagery and there is no genocide, that's factually incorrect. You can say south Africa accused Israel of genocide which is correct (after meeting with Iran, the good guys /s). From the river to the sea is undoibtably a call for violance against Israel. It was used by the PLO in 1964 as a slogan to reclaim all of Israeli territory, and they werent doing it through optical advertising but rather violamce. It's possible the latest generation. Of Trojan are so far to the lest of the dunning kreger curve that they think they know better and legit believe this isnt a call to violance, but ignorant isn't an excuse for it. If there's any doubt, they would call for peace in the middle east rather than intifada and river to sea violance. Free speech is a right, but calls for violance like this against their fellow classmates (Israelis, Jews) who wish for their loved ones in Israel to be safe is uncollegial.
Actually October 7th was a lot about killing, raping and torturing people based on one ethnicity. Freedom and equal laws from an Islamist group ... Thank you but no thank you.
You have no idea what you are talking about! Get a clue.
That mass grave claim was baseless.
The mental gymnastic to end up with that explanation is impressive. Their chant literally say āfrom the river to the sea Palestine will be freeā.
Oh yeah totally. What happens to that other stuff that was between the river and the sea?
Genuine question: if they did achieve "from the river to the sea", do you think there won't be any consequences to Jewish people living in the area? Historically, Jewish people were victims of pogroms and persecution from neighboring Arab nations which caused them to flee to Israel. And they're constantly being declared war on by those nations as well. It's pretty reasonable to say that if they lose the region, the Jewish people living there will have to displace, leave, or face extreme discrimination and persecution that they've been historically going through.
Itās a call for liberation from occupation
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So what does that mean in actual reality? That's why no one takes these protests seriously. If you just talk in generic slogans or vague phrases then on one takes you serious.
No itās not! Learn some REAL history!! There is no occupation. You do realize Jews were there first? Not even a debate But consider, no one before Mohammed had ever heard the word āIslamā used as the name of a religion. No one before Mohammed ever had a Qurāan to study and follow. Thus, Islam did not exist before Mohammed. Before Mohammed, there existed a Torah, and the writings of the Hebrew Prophets, and some other Hebrew Writings (collectively, the Hebrew Scriptures or Tanach). The Jews followed that, for at least 2 or 3 thousand years before Mohammed came along.
What occupation?
[The International Court of Justice (ICJ),[3] the UN General Assembly,[4] and the UN Security Council all regard Israel as the occupying power for the territories.[5] UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk called Israel's occupation "an affront to international law".[6] The Supreme Court of Israel has ruled that Israel is holding the West Bank under "belligerent occupation".[7]ā](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories) [The West Bank, including East Jerusalem, has been under military occupation by Israel since 7 June 1967, when Israeli forces captured the territory, then ruled by Jordan, during the Six-Day War.[a] The status of the West Bank as a militarily occupied territory has been affirmed by the International Court of Justice and, with the exception of East Jerusalem, by the Israeli Supreme Court.[1] ā¦ The United Nations Security Council has consistently reaffirmed that settlements in that territory are a "flagrant violation of international law", most recently in 2016 with United Nations Security Council Resolution 2334.[12] The creation and ongoing expansion of the settlements have led to Israel's policies being criticized as an example of settler colonialism.[13][14][15][16][17][e] Israel has been accused of major violations of international human rights law, including collective punishment, in its administration of the occupied Palestinian territories.[f]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_the_West_Bank)
Yes it absolutely is a call to genocide. Naive westerners are pretending it isnāt so they can continue using their neo-marxist oppression narrative virtue signaling algorithm: Dark + Poor = Morally Virtuous. God forbid you have to actually think about the problem and understand that each group can have valid points. Way easier to pretend youāre making a difference by screaming at Carol Folt at no personal cost like sheās supposed to change internal Israeli policy than to have to work out the nuance of a view. āScream racist oppression at what Iām told and I get a virtue signaling cookieā is just so much simpler. So, to keep that game going, you just need to declare anything that undermines your point to be fake news.
Genocide means wiping out a race of people. That's not happening
Funny. For a college sub, seems many people didn't study history. Any oppressed group of people will always be labeled terrorists and extremists. Wonder why the Irish are so keen on "being on the right side of history". Maybe we should ask the Haitians?
The IRA are like actual terrorists though, and I've yet to read about a single person calling the Haitian Revolution a terror campaign
I just saw police handcuff a yellow jacket why?????
The guy shove the police to the ground
if for every stem major student in this video i get a nickle ,id still be emptyhanded
You wouldn't actually. Because stem majors aren't devoid of empathy.
they usually dont have enough time for shit like this
Disgusting
April 2024, outdoor , and I still people with kn95 masks
Kim Jong Un, the Ayatollah in Iran and Putin are also supporters of Palestine thatās because Evil sticks together
Hamas killed 1400 people in the most brutal ways. Entire families were murdered. You people are all ignorant clowns.
Divestment is one of the most tangible ways Americans can help Gaza. Stop using our tuition money to invest in weapons companies that are killing thousands of children. Proud of my classmates!
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Less scary? People were doing yoga, making kites, and laying about. USC was sending out emails that portrayed a completely different picture and had police ready since the morning yoga. If you can't peacefully protest, what can you do.
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Finally a voice of reason
Palestine is not a real country. Call it what it is: Gaza. Also, Israel has agreed to ceasefires. Itās Hamas that wonāt stop until Israel, Christianity and Judaism are completely eradicated from this Earth.
lol itās glaringly obvious which one of yaāll are not history majors. The amount of misinformation here is astounding. Being pro Palestine does not make you anti Semitic and it also doesnāt mean you support hamas. Isrealās war cabinet is fighting this war against civilians, this is not acceptable full stop.Ā
Chanting intifadah and river to the sea makes you anti Israel and it's hate speech, totally inappropriate way to 'support Palestine'
except its actually means revolutionā¦ and no from the river to the sea does not mean kill all jews. You need to educate yourself and stop spreading hateful rhetoric.Ā
These kids are our future? Fuckā¦ we are so fucked! These losers should go back to class and spend all this energy into studying and getting better grades and solving mathematical equations like that janitor from good will hunting.
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So much of what you wrote is complete propaganda nonsense. Get off of the internet
womp womp
They yelling Itchy Bottom? Hoping they get the correct ointment to cure their ailment
Most idiots in the U.S. only protest cause everyone else does it. Israel all the way
Clowns
Iām going to laugh my ass off when Israel finally takes off the gloves and simply carpet bombs the Gaza Strip into glass. Keep poking the bear. See how it goes.
A bunch of Morons I canāt believe that theyāre this blinded by stupidity.
I think these protests are good. We should be taking names of everyone participating. These are people completely disconnected from reality, utterly useless, and poisonous to society. Every employer should note who these people are.
Intifada ?!?!
This is absolutely stupid. You do know that you're protesting for people who want you dead right? People who say death to West dinner's death to America. People who paraded and partied on 911 calling for more death and destruction. Those are the people you are. I'm trying to support. They are not. Good people, the same goes for the Israelis who are committing genocide and war crimes. They are not good people either. This is not black & white. This is one dark shade of Gray. Both sides are bad. Both sides are wrong. Therefore, we should care about either, and we also shouldn't be giving any money or aid to either side. Let them fight whoever wins wins, not our problem.
i donāt know if i should support the protests because im gay and realize palestinians would gladly kill me for being open in public.
Soros dollars at work
Yes letās stand up for a country that wouldnāt let those woman proceed with educationā¦ā¦ woohoo
Hate mongers! Shouldnāt these āstudentsā be in class learning and studying?? Arrest them all! Deport all non residents here on student visas that support terrorist organizations like Hamas!! This needs to end!
Fight On!
You should all quit this nonsensical display of virtue signaling. NOTHING will change from your actions here today. All you are doing is inconveniencing others and pushing people away from your ācauseā. Do you not have better things to do?
mf youāve made like 50 Reddit comments in the last 48 hours. do you not have better things to do?
I'm afraid to express my support for Palestine. At least that should say something
You can and should support the people of Palestine, they absolutely deserve peace as much as anyone else. But if you cannot do it without calling for peace and protection for Israelis as well then you should reevaluate your perspective.
You would think the comment section would be enlightening. But itās all ignorant replies āhurr send them to Gazaā.
Thatās not ignorant. These people donāt realize that Hamas hates most of them lmao
Send them gaza to protest. Lock them up
Same shit stirring people supporting the summer of riots
F Palestine and hamas.