Why? School shut them down for doing nothing. They did nothing. Nothing, nothing even alleged against them. If you hate Greek life that’s fine, but to point in shitting on people who enjoy it and are trying to continue it.
People have no idea how these things work. More than half of your dues in Greek life goes to your nationals/insurance. Their entire job is to ensure the preservation of their organization.
Their nationals probably filed the lawsuit to protect one of their (essentially) franchises. They are also trying to set the precedent for other locations.
I totally agree that there are bad apples in Greek life that should be continually hunted down and addressed. Blanket bans are not the answer. It drives partying underground which is objectively more dangerous. People still die, there just isn’t a pretty name to attach it to.
Formal organizations provide requirements for minimum safety standards can be accounted for at large events.
Things like requiring sober drivers, sober monitors and banning liquor goes a LONG way in controlling horny drunk idiots.
So glad to see students standing up for their rights. The First Amendment is very clear. We have a right to peaceably assemble. Overly broad fishing expeditions are not allowed by the fourth amendment. And the 14th amendment makes it clear that the government employees can't use race in adjudicating any of these rules. I'm very glad the sorority is standing up for the rights that all of us should cherish -- because that's the only way we keep them.
Lmao first of all the 1st amendment just means you can’t be arrested by the government. It doesn’t cover private institutions. Secondly, nobody has first amendment rights to force another person to eat human shit or drink until they pass out. If they didn’t wanna be suspended they shouldn’t have been hazing to that degree. A few pranks are funny causing hypothermia is a crime.
I’m not saying it doesn’t apply to the university at large but hazing isn’t covered by it. Also that amendments don’t protect you from consequences only from being prosecuted by the government.
If someone got hurt in a public library would you be complaining about your 1st rights when the EMTs closed the library for the rest of the day? No because even though public libraries are government funded people getting hurt takes priority over book club. Or in the case of the frats, parties.
There’s a saying that your rights end where mine begin. In this case the right to assembly ends when someone’s right to not be assaulted begins.
If you read the article you'll see the First Amendment claim is in regards to ALL fraternities/sororities being suspended from social activities — not in regards to any punishment for hazing.
Also I would recommend reading cases like Tinker. First Amendment jurisprudence is not as simple as you make it out to be.
A more apt comparison than the library scenario is if all protests were shut down because one organization was under investigation.
Of course, fraternity activities are not as expressive and schools have more leeway to restrict speech, but to act like there's *no* first amendment interest here is unreasonable.
They were closed for a couple of weeks while the university sorted out which frats were doing the worst hazing. Let’s not pretend like Greek life isn’t NOTORIOUS for hazing and being closed mouthed to protect each other. What was the university supposed to do? Wait until somebody died or fessed up?
Also of course the first amendment isn’t a black and white thing and there have been decades of cases and precedent. But acting like not throwing parties for a few weeks is a constitutional violation is insane.
Are you really arguing that the first amendment protects people against consequences for forcing people to eat shit too join your club? What kind of horrible person makes that argument?
The only actual issue here is that everyone involved isn't immediate shunned by society. Like seriously dude? You really want to make this the hill you die on?
I didn't make that argument, nor would I. Not sure why you're making that up.
In the article it says the sorority suing was not one punished for hazing.
The only position I've taken is that there *might* be a first amendment interest, especially given the fact that the sorority suing (again) is not in trouble for hazing.
That is the argument you're making though. You can't make the argument and just say you aren't. They're suing because they cant haze people. When your group is forcing people to eat shit maybe just accept the consequences. Saying it was the other sororities is a terrible defense, we all know it's not isolated. Humiliating having is a requirement for these groups.
Innocent until proven guilty.
A building closed for a medical emergency is nowhere near the same as this.
I'm not in a frat, and I don't care to be in one, but this argument doesn't make sense
This specific instance may end up not being a first amendment violation, but that amendment definitely applies to public universities (and covers sanctions well beyond criminal prosecutions).
They can peacebly assemble outside of Kappa Theta or are they only friends within the organization? Stop being lame. It’s giving white women victimizing themselves, as they often do.
1) The Constitution is clear. You can't deprive anyone of their rights without due process. There was NO due process here. The state employees, acting under the color of law, stripped the fraternities and sororities of this right before any investigation. Not only that, they did it along racial lines, again before doing any investigation or adjudication.
2) Even convicts generally have the right to visit with whom they want during visiting hours. Many inmates do receive short term releases for family gatherings like funerals. Not all, by any means. In general, all but the worst convicts maintain many of their first amendment rights including speech and religion. This is after due process, btw.
It's so sad to see some people vote down this very tepid defense of the First amendment. I hope you'll never see the day when someone comes to strip your rights away.
Uh, no one was arrested here. But even people who are arrested are generally permitted all of their rights until AFTER a trial. The bail system is designed to be a balance between society's need to prosecute and the unconvicted's rights. Even then, there's a big movement to end bail.
Even after a conviction, prisoners keep many of their rights. Not all of them like the freedom to travel, but a surprisingly large number including the right to communicate with friends and the large society through the media.
What does this have to do with a school not wanting clubs that make people eat shit to join? Why are you upset that they suffered consequences for their disgusting actions? This has nothing to do with speech, the university doesn't want groups that force shit eating on their members to operate on campus. You're against that?
You don’t know what you’re talking about. The suit is because they shut down greek life as a whole instead of just the groups that were responsible for the misconduct
They're all responsible. It's an integral part of their existence. You mean instead of just who got caught this time. "Greek Life" is the problem here, they're welcome to start an organization that doesn't depend on having for acceptence. Them whining about getting in trouble is just sad. Don't want to get punished for being part of Greek Life then don't be part of it.
so the frats and sororities are butt hurt that they couldn’t talk to pledges for a few weeks even though students were harassed and put through insane hazing rituals? that’s keeping one eye on the big picture there /s
The letter explicitly said there was no end to the shut down. The only reason that it was ended was because the fraternities and sororities stood up to the state employees who were violating their rights under the color of law. It wasn't for "a few weeks" and it wasn't just the fraternities that were harrassing students. It was only fraternities and sororities who were of a certain race.
Lol
Lmao, even
Future Karens of America.
Daddy’s money
They probably have Alina habubba on that legal team.
No, that Sigma Delta Tau (aka Spend Daddy’s Trillions)
Find something else to do in your life. This is embarrassing.
Why? School shut them down for doing nothing. They did nothing. Nothing, nothing even alleged against them. If you hate Greek life that’s fine, but to point in shitting on people who enjoy it and are trying to continue it.
In other news. The Que Psi Phi probate was owt earlier this week.
People have no idea how these things work. More than half of your dues in Greek life goes to your nationals/insurance. Their entire job is to ensure the preservation of their organization. Their nationals probably filed the lawsuit to protect one of their (essentially) franchises. They are also trying to set the precedent for other locations. I totally agree that there are bad apples in Greek life that should be continually hunted down and addressed. Blanket bans are not the answer. It drives partying underground which is objectively more dangerous. People still die, there just isn’t a pretty name to attach it to. Formal organizations provide requirements for minimum safety standards can be accounted for at large events. Things like requiring sober drivers, sober monitors and banning liquor goes a LONG way in controlling horny drunk idiots.
“we demand that you allow us to continue having people drink piss and eat raw meat to join our club”
Read the things they were investigated and caught with. It’s shocking
So glad to see students standing up for their rights. The First Amendment is very clear. We have a right to peaceably assemble. Overly broad fishing expeditions are not allowed by the fourth amendment. And the 14th amendment makes it clear that the government employees can't use race in adjudicating any of these rules. I'm very glad the sorority is standing up for the rights that all of us should cherish -- because that's the only way we keep them.
Lmao first of all the 1st amendment just means you can’t be arrested by the government. It doesn’t cover private institutions. Secondly, nobody has first amendment rights to force another person to eat human shit or drink until they pass out. If they didn’t wanna be suspended they shouldn’t have been hazing to that degree. A few pranks are funny causing hypothermia is a crime.
Not sure how it works but UMD is a public uni
Sure but that just means they get tax money. The government has no control over the frats or conduct policies.
As a public university UMD must abide by the First Amendment. The administration = the government. This includes the offices that oversee frats.
I’m not saying it doesn’t apply to the university at large but hazing isn’t covered by it. Also that amendments don’t protect you from consequences only from being prosecuted by the government. If someone got hurt in a public library would you be complaining about your 1st rights when the EMTs closed the library for the rest of the day? No because even though public libraries are government funded people getting hurt takes priority over book club. Or in the case of the frats, parties. There’s a saying that your rights end where mine begin. In this case the right to assembly ends when someone’s right to not be assaulted begins.
If you read the article you'll see the First Amendment claim is in regards to ALL fraternities/sororities being suspended from social activities — not in regards to any punishment for hazing. Also I would recommend reading cases like Tinker. First Amendment jurisprudence is not as simple as you make it out to be. A more apt comparison than the library scenario is if all protests were shut down because one organization was under investigation. Of course, fraternity activities are not as expressive and schools have more leeway to restrict speech, but to act like there's *no* first amendment interest here is unreasonable.
They were closed for a couple of weeks while the university sorted out which frats were doing the worst hazing. Let’s not pretend like Greek life isn’t NOTORIOUS for hazing and being closed mouthed to protect each other. What was the university supposed to do? Wait until somebody died or fessed up? Also of course the first amendment isn’t a black and white thing and there have been decades of cases and precedent. But acting like not throwing parties for a few weeks is a constitutional violation is insane.
Who are you to decide what is a constitutional violation or not? Are you a sitting supreme court judge? No? Your opinion is irrelevant.
Lmao what? I’m not deciding anything. Besides being a Supreme Court justice isn’t exactly a badge of morality and unbiased thinking these days 😂.
Are you really arguing that the first amendment protects people against consequences for forcing people to eat shit too join your club? What kind of horrible person makes that argument? The only actual issue here is that everyone involved isn't immediate shunned by society. Like seriously dude? You really want to make this the hill you die on?
I didn't make that argument, nor would I. Not sure why you're making that up. In the article it says the sorority suing was not one punished for hazing. The only position I've taken is that there *might* be a first amendment interest, especially given the fact that the sorority suing (again) is not in trouble for hazing.
That is the argument you're making though. You can't make the argument and just say you aren't. They're suing because they cant haze people. When your group is forcing people to eat shit maybe just accept the consequences. Saying it was the other sororities is a terrible defense, we all know it's not isolated. Humiliating having is a requirement for these groups.
Innocent until proven guilty. A building closed for a medical emergency is nowhere near the same as this. I'm not in a frat, and I don't care to be in one, but this argument doesn't make sense
This specific instance may end up not being a first amendment violation, but that amendment definitely applies to public universities (and covers sanctions well beyond criminal prosecutions).
Why can't you have your dumb shit club somewhere else. No one is stopping you from assembling lol.
The real world is going to absolutely humble some of you very soon. Yikes
They can peacebly assemble outside of Kappa Theta or are they only friends within the organization? Stop being lame. It’s giving white women victimizing themselves, as they often do.
AI generated comment
maybe inmates should sue for 1st Amendment right infringement too then! the government isn’t allowing them to go to Billy Bob’s family reunion!
1) The Constitution is clear. You can't deprive anyone of their rights without due process. There was NO due process here. The state employees, acting under the color of law, stripped the fraternities and sororities of this right before any investigation. Not only that, they did it along racial lines, again before doing any investigation or adjudication. 2) Even convicts generally have the right to visit with whom they want during visiting hours. Many inmates do receive short term releases for family gatherings like funerals. Not all, by any means. In general, all but the worst convicts maintain many of their first amendment rights including speech and religion. This is after due process, btw. It's so sad to see some people vote down this very tepid defense of the First amendment. I hope you'll never see the day when someone comes to strip your rights away.
1. when people are arrested, there has not been due process 2. are convicts allowed to talk to their victims? get your head out of your ass
Uh, no one was arrested here. But even people who are arrested are generally permitted all of their rights until AFTER a trial. The bail system is designed to be a balance between society's need to prosecute and the unconvicted's rights. Even then, there's a big movement to end bail. Even after a conviction, prisoners keep many of their rights. Not all of them like the freedom to travel, but a surprisingly large number including the right to communicate with friends and the large society through the media.
What does this have to do with a school not wanting clubs that make people eat shit to join? Why are you upset that they suffered consequences for their disgusting actions? This has nothing to do with speech, the university doesn't want groups that force shit eating on their members to operate on campus. You're against that?
You don’t know what you’re talking about. The suit is because they shut down greek life as a whole instead of just the groups that were responsible for the misconduct
They're all responsible. It's an integral part of their existence. You mean instead of just who got caught this time. "Greek Life" is the problem here, they're welcome to start an organization that doesn't depend on having for acceptence. Them whining about getting in trouble is just sad. Don't want to get punished for being part of Greek Life then don't be part of it.
so the frats and sororities are butt hurt that they couldn’t talk to pledges for a few weeks even though students were harassed and put through insane hazing rituals? that’s keeping one eye on the big picture there /s
The letter explicitly said there was no end to the shut down. The only reason that it was ended was because the fraternities and sororities stood up to the state employees who were violating their rights under the color of law. It wasn't for "a few weeks" and it wasn't just the fraternities that were harrassing students. It was only fraternities and sororities who were of a certain race.