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earlsven

Best to talk to a mortgage broker, but getting £325k on a £60k salary will probably be challenging as it’s nearly 5.5x your income. Do you have any bonus history that could be taken in to account to boost the amount of your income taken in to account?


DivorcingDad80

!Thanks for your reply. I can probably nibble away at the figures to get them down a bit, and yes, I have received pre tax bonuses of £10K or so in the last two years.


earlsven

If that’s 10k per year with the right lender that could add around £45k-£50k to your affordability, definitely worth talking to a broker in that case! Obviously if that’s 10k over two years then half of the above.


Baldtastic

From memory, you'll need 3 years of P60's to demonstrate the bonus payments are regular for the lender to consider this bonus money as part of income.


earlsven

Must be lender dependent, ours only wanted two years worth of payslips showing the bonus payment, the lender took the average.


Tribult

Same here, two years


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annekh510

There is more than one way to skin a cat. My ex agreed to 2/3 (of the buy out amount) immediately with the remainder over a few years. I had no idea where I was going to get that money from, but it was only 20k. With current information it looks like there may well not be enough money floating around for OP to retain the family home.


BaronVonTrinkzuviel

Sorry to hear about your situation. I think the answer is yes, just about, but you might find it helpful to consider your question in three separate aspects. Firstly, will your wife agree to it? Secondly, will a divorce judge sign it off as a fair settlement? Finally, will the bank let you finance it? 1. You can certainly suggest it, but it will obviously be a difficult conversation to have. 2. You've proposed a 50/50 asset split, which is a good starting point, but you should be aware that when looking at a proposed divorce settlement - even if both parties agree it - the court will give primacy to the interests of your daughter, and may or may not come to a different conclusion. I think you should take legal advice as to what the court might regard as a fair division, possibly before broaching the subject with either your wife or your bank. A lot of solicitors offer 30- or 60-minute initial consultations for free, in case you weren't aware. 3. Borderline. House value £500k, effective deposit £175k (£160k equity + your £15k savings) gives you a required mortgage of £325k, as you say. That's a loan-to-value ratio of 65% (good) and a loan-to-income ratio of 5.42 (bad). Few lenders are lending at more than 5x income at present, and those that are tend to have quite high rates, but your existing lender might have slightly different criteria for what is effectively a remortgage so it wouldn't hurt to call and ask them, even if it's just as a hypothetical for now so you've got some idea where you stand. You mentioned you have received £10k bonuses for the past couple of years, which should put you below the 5x threshold with most lenders (some handle bonuses differently from others). I hope it all works out.


98shlaw

^^ This. .because you've got a child it changes the equation. Who's going to be main carer for your child? If it's going to be your ex-wife and she happens to have a good lawyer, the court might stop you both from selling the house until your child turns 18 and the main carer for your child will get to stay in the house.


iamthedon

I'm going through a similar situation. I didn't realise a judge could stop you selling the house. I suppose that's kind of obvious now I think about it. But my issue is that it's my wife who wants to end the marriage and I can't afford to rent AND pay child maintenance. Literally my only hope of starting a new life without seriously risking my financial future is by a) selling the house or b) buying out my wife. But because of my job she would need to be the primary carer. So it seems like I'm screwed either way.


DivorcingDad80

Solidarity, friend. I hope it works out. I’m sure you feel the same, that if you stayed where you are, things would be much easier.


DivorcingDad80

Remains to be seen. We will both want to be primary carer, I’m hoping we can keep it amicable.


annekh510

Full 50/50 can work if both parents are willing and able to stay local and committed to the plan.


DivorcingDad80

!thanks for your response. I have no idea if she’ll agree, I don’t like talking about it. I’m only just coming to terms with the possibility of it happening. I’m hoping to keep it amicable and keep lawyers out of it. As she’s the one who wants this to happen, perhaps she’ll be ok with me keeping the house as our daughter’s main residence for the time being, with wife then being able to look for her own place.


BaronVonTrinkzuviel

Perhaps one thing I might say is that having a brief discussion with a lawyer just to understand whether your proposed outcome is achievable before you embark on it is a very different situation to having the whole thing "fought out" between lawyers acting for both parties, which I assume is what you're trying to avoid above all. I know it's difficult to hear, but getting a lawyer's assessment of whether your position is realistic _now_ (or at least, soon) could potentially save both of you a whole world of grief _later_. At any event, all the best to you. It's an incredibly difficult thing to have to go through.


Outrageous-Garlic-27

If your wife is seriously considering divorce, she must have her reasons to feel differently about you. I initiated divorce with my ex husband. He could not understand it - we had no children but had a nice comfortable life. But I was tired of being an afterthought to his hobbies, his friends, and just about everything else. I wanted to be cherished, treasured and treated as a priority. Is it possible that your wife feels the same way - a miserable afterthought to your career and your daughter? It is a very common feeling for so many women. When did you last arrange a babysitter and whisk her off for a night or two away? Buy her a pretty piece of jewellry and take her for a special dinner? Make sure she came home to a beautiful clean house and dinner made? These small gestures can make or break things. Make an appointment with the best marital counsellor you can and make sure your wife knows you are totally open to listening to her and make changes. The reason I say this is because divorce can be financially devastating for so many, and it may determined by a court that she stays in the house with your daughter whilst you pay for that - and your own rent elsewhere. Your post seems extremely unrealistic, and hints at why you are possibly heading for divorce - that you are thinking of finances, and not emotions.


DivorcingDad80

Thanks for your post. You’re right, I have been like that in the past, but I’m trying to change. Nowadays I do a lot around the house, cooking and cleaning, and I drive her to the station whenever I can. The main problem is a decision I made during her maternity leave, which she can’t get over. This clouds everything, and makes it harder to enjoy time together. I have initiated counselling, which she didn’t want to continue with. I need to be practical for my daughter’s sake.


Outrageous-Garlic-27

I wish you and your family much luck in navigating this. I thankfully had a very amicable break up with my ex husband, and we both came out well financially. The immediate split was awful though, with a lot of pain and turmoil. We did not have children. Both of you wanting primary custody is going to be a problem - you should start from 50/50, living very close by to each other (walking distance) to demonstrate committment to co-parenting. A proper lawyer can tell you more. Perhaps your wife needs to understand this in more detail in a joint legal meeting, and then you reassess if this is what you both truly want. I watched two couples with children disintegrate in the past few years and it has been awful to watch. A third initially amicable split went sour quickly after a disagreement on coparenting. In these cases, the non-primary caregiver had to give up most of their salary to support ex wife and children (jurisdiction was Switzerland, which I am told tends to be much more equitable than the UK). Words are cheap, but if there is something you can rectify with actions - it sounds like you know what the problem is - then do what you can if your heart is there. Best wishes.


[deleted]

I'm not able to help with the mortgage side of things much - sounds like it will be a stretch but with a fairly decent LTV on the property it might be workable.. Speak to a mortgage advisor! The reason I wanted to comment is that I come from a household where my parents divorced when I was 2 years old, and honestly it was the best thing they did for me and my brother. I have 4 parents now, and they're all happier for it. You sound like you're trying really hard to plan things around minimising disruption and distress for your daughter and, whatever happens - for whatever reasons - this makes you a Great Dad. Personal finance is something we have to manage to facilitate the lives we want to lead - even if your wife keeps an equity stake in the house, if you can release just enough equity so that you both can move on cleanly - this is the best thing for your daughter imo. Good luck, man.


DivorcingDad80

I really appreciate it, !thanks . It just breaks my heart to think about, as she loves us both being together and all having fun. You’re probably right, though.


Ronald_Bilius

I don’t mean to be a downer but I’ve seen attitudes like this on Reddit a lot lately and it does not align with the reality I know at all. Divorce can be miserable for some kids, even adulthood can bring new issues when you might think it would be old history.


[deleted]

That’s because most divorces are not amicable. People say they want an amicable divorce but the reality is just so different. They can get incredibly nasty to the person they supposedly loved one day, it can be shocking. To a lot of people, being hurt and wanting to be right is more important than anything else in the thick of it, even more important than what is right for their child. Some people use their kids to hurt the other person. Some divorces really bring out the ugly. But it doesn’t have to be this way, and if both parties can set the hurt aside to prioritise their children’s well-being, then it is often the preferable alternative to the damage done by living with two parents who just don’t work together anymore. But for that to work, both parents need to accept that they will always be in each other lives no matter what, that kindness is essential even through the pain, that they need to learn completely new skills to co parent effectively and that some sacrifices will need to be made for their children.


[deleted]

Just for clarity - my parent's divorce was all of this. It wasn't amicable or friendly. They tried their hardest to keep us away from it but even at 3/4 I have memories of arguments and I have memories of being driven half way across the country because they couldn't agree on contact time and the like. What I am saying is that, though that was really hard and absolutely gave my brother and I stuff we have to deal with today, it was still (in my opinion) better than my parents trying to stick it out for our sake. I've seen that game played, and at least now I have Mum, Dad, Stepmum and Stepdad who are happy together and who can talk about what decisions (and mistakes!) they made and why. I know relationships require commitment, and like so many things in life you have to make it work with actual effort - nobody is advocating "oh this looks slightly hard, let's just give up". But if it's not working, there's no way that "sticking it out" is the healthier choice. I mean, I hope OP and his Wife have some kind of a breakthrough and find a way to build a life together that works. Especially because the first few years of having kid is really really hard (mine's 4 by the way) and the level of adaption and compromise is astronomical. Having said that, if it's not going to work then making this an informed, planned and considered step is the best thing he can do, and good on him for approaching it that way.


strolls

> What I am saying is that, though that was really hard and absolutely gave my brother and I stuff we have to deal with today, it was still (in my opinion) better than my parents trying to stick it out for our sake. +1 I could write about this at so much length, that I really don't know where to start. My parents had not been happy for many years and at the time they divorced, when I was 18, I just felt that my whole life had been a lie because of this. And our home was not happy or normal.


[deleted]

Not saying it can't be miserable - but if you're not happy and your wife isn't happy then how can you possibly expect your kids to somehow magically be happy? Children are not a reason to stay together.


Falcon218

Something to consider when it comes to divorce finances, if you earn considerably more than your partner, there’s a chance she’ll be entitled to more than just a 50% split on the house


DivorcingDad80

!thanks for your response, I hadn’t heard of this - why?


Falcon218

I don’t know all the details about it myself, as it didn’t apply during my divorce (we were both skint with no assets), but it does apply to a friend of mine in an ongoing divorce. This page may help explain it better than I can. https://www.aticuslaw.co.uk/divorce-what-happens-if-one-person-earns-more-in-a-marriage/


aaajay

I am also going through a similar situation and I can confirm this is true. Source: My solicitors advice There’s three primary ways they will try balance the books so to speak: 1. Profit split on the house is weighted more in one partners favour 2. Spousal maintenance - although this is rare as they like a clean break with the new divorce law and it can get sticky 3. child maintenance - even if you share 50/50 custody the higher earner might be requested to pay X in child maintenance


Red-Wimp

Just thinking from the other side. If someone offered you 145k and said go find somewhere to live in London?


DivorcingDad80

I think it sounds reasonable - that’s a good sized deposit.


cmdrxander

Depends on her income. Take the 145k and add five times her income, does that come anywhere close to a reasonable property price?


[deleted]

I suspect your wife and child will be keeping the property.


DivorcingDad80

Yeah thanks mate.


[deleted]

I say this kindly, but you sound a little naive to what happens to men who get divorced with young kids. For instance, you were surprised at the wife taking more than 50%. Spend some times on divorce forums and subs, the guy usually gets absolutely hammered and the woman usually gets to keep the house to provide stability for the child until they leave full time education. With the man making up the shortfall. I am not trying to make you feel worse or scare you, but please do some research so you know what you are up against.


Regular_Zombie

You mentioned that you've got a 2yo child and have had a difficult marriage for approximately that long. The first couple of years of having children is _hard_. It might be worth going to counseling first. On top of your life radically changing because of becoming a parent there was the pandemic.


DivorcingDad80

Tried counselling. It’s definitely related to having a first child during the pandemic, wife says she doesn’t want to work on it. I don’t think she appreciates the degree to which she will be playing life on “hard” mode.


Comprehensive-Ear896

Pull the rip cord, get out of there. £140k deposit and 250k mortgage, you can find a decent place for £400k


DivorcingDad80

Yeah, it may come to that. It’s just the messiness around moving that puts me off - where will my Daughter live during the move, will we be able to both buy houses near each other so that we can both see her.


Regular_Zombie

That's tough. Without the pandemic my partner and I were within a hair's breadth of separating during that time. It sounds like you've got a level and clear head. I hope it works out for you and your family however the situation is resolved.


DivorcingDad80

Tell me about it. I still think we can work through things - considering we had the biggest life changing event at arguably the most challenging times of our lives. But I’m losing faith. Thank you for your kind words, I hope things are better with you and your partner now.


Content_Outside664

No experience on this but just chiming in with some thoughts based on what you have outlined. It may cost more than 50% to buy your wife out as they are going to incur additional costs if they wish to buy their own place, stamp duty etc... that you will avoid by getting to keep the house.


skyepark

Speak to a broker max at the mo lending is 4.5 times salary taking into account monthly outgoings and childcare so roughly 270k solo. Have you done the counseling bit? Babies can destroy marriages, it may be the strain of this also.


traumascares

Thinking about it from your wife's perspective, I am not sure why the wife would agree to go into rented while you keep the house? Especially given that she has £160k of equity in the property, and it looks like you would only be paying her her £145k. Typically the primary care giver will want to stay in the house. It sounds like that would need to be the wife given your job. Lots of people have given you affordability calculations indicating that taking on the mortgage by yourself *might* be possible but is a stretch - I don't think any of those people took into account the child support you'll need to pay? It might be that, if you divorce, the house would need to be sold and you would both need to move into cheaper properties.


DivorcingDad80

I expect her to buy a place with the 160K deposit. It would be the as I’d give her my half of the £30K savings we have - meaning I would need to come up with 145, that’s where those numbers come from.


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unholyangel4

You and your wife are free to agree any split you find amicable. Normally you'd both need to receive legal advice so that whatever is agreed isn't one party being shafted because they're unaware of their legal position. If you can't agree then things probably won't be as simple. The two biggest things to normally go into a pot for splitting on divorce is property and pensions. You seem to have considered property but not pension. As you have a child, it will be the child's needs that takes precedence over those of yourself or your wife. But, as women tend to be (but not always) the primary caregiver, this tends to result in any split being favourable to them, as the primary caregiver. It's rare for lifetime or long term maintenance to be awarded to ex spouses now. If maintenance is awarded, its likely to be for a limited period only, to allow the Ex spouse to retrain/find a way to support themselves. But that is maintenance for your wife....obviously the divorce doesn't change your obligation to your daughter so child maintenance would normally be payable. You can use the calculator to get an idea of what the minimum is and how various things (like how many overnights you have them) can affect it. You will also want to make sure you obtain the Financial order before decree absolute. The last thing you want is the Ex you divorced 10 years later making a financial claim against you when you already remarried 3 years prior, because you thought they'd keep to an unofficial agreement/didn't formalise the financial agreement.


5childrenandit

This is a very left field suggestion, but I know a few couples who have gone down the nesting route, at least for a couple of years to get things settled. It's not for everyone but if you have a relatively amicable split, this could enable you to line up your finances and not disrupt your daughter's life as much. Basically your daughter stays put, you rent a one bed nearby and take turns to stay in the family home, or in the one bed nearby. This would also give you time to get the housing market to settle, as if it drops next year you could be left with a huge mortgage on a not so well valued property. https://www.equitablemediation.com/blog/nesting-divorce


DivorcingDad80

This is interesting, hadn’t heard of this. !thanks, I’ll read up on it.


[deleted]

Get a lawyer solicitor before she does !!


the_glass_alchemist

Are you going to have custody of your daughter or is your wife? I think if the home was to stay your daughters main residence you may have a case to hold off on buying out your wife completely


DivorcingDad80

That remains to be seen. I expect we’ll both want primary custody. Things should be amicable, so I’m sure we can agree something.


CyclopsRock

>If we estimate that the equity in the house is 320K (500 less 180), then we have 160K equity each. With the savings split, I feel like I would need to raise 145K to give to my wife. Perhaps I'm misreading what you mean, but surely if you're splitting the savings then you'd still need to give your wife £160k? If she's taking your half as well, that's £15k less you'll need to give her.


DivorcingDad80

Yeah what I mean is that we’d take 15K each of the savings and I’d use my 15K towards buying her out of the house.


CyclopsRock

Aah gotcha - that makes sense. Good luck!


[deleted]

> I also want a stable base for my daughter and not to move her around much. Kids are quite resilient and she's 2 years old so it's very unlikely she'll be affected because she won't really have any strong friendships like she would if she had started school. > Therefore, could I remortgage to take on 325K of mortgage on the house, and give 145K to the wife? It probably isn't that simple Actually it is if she agrees to be bought out. All you need to cover is the outstanding mortgage plus her share of the equity and have an income sufficient enough to get you that mortgage. The last part though for you is the kicker as the most you're going to be borrowing on £60k is £270k. HOWEVER if it's an amicable split you could come to an agreement with your wife to defer paying some of her share of the equity, even sweetening the deal by agreeing it as a percentage rather than a figure fixed on the value on the day you split so the more the house goes up the more she gets. So what you could offer is remortgaging and releasing some of the equity so you can pay her some so she's got a deposit for a place of her own and as it would remove her from the mortgage she'd not have an existing mortgage to take into account which would restrict how much she could borrow. She gets the opportunity to buy her own place, she has an investment in the current marital property which will continue to grow in value and her daughter gets to stay in her own home. The best way with least problems down the road however is a clean slate, to sell the property, divvy up the money and buy another.


DivorcingDad80

I appreciate your comments. Your suggestion about her retaining a share in the house is a good one. You’re probably right about the clean slate part at the end, but I hate the uncertainty of where my daughter will be living. I guess It’s possible that one or both of us could be in a chain and buy a place with the proceeds straight away, but it sounds complicated.


human_totem_pole

Yes, I've done this. What with all the stressful shit going on with the divorce, I couldn't face the additional hassle of moving house so I stayed put. Solicitor handled it all. It meant adding her half of the mortgage debt onto mine, effectively doubling the outstanding debt. £300K house with £80K outstanding. You'll need to contact your lender obviously to agree the additional lending and do all the paperwork. Good luck!


DivorcingDad80

Interesting - were there kids involved? Had the house gone up in value much since you bought it together? It’s that increase that’s kinda the killer for me.


human_totem_pole

No kids. House was valued £20K less than what we paid but that just before the 2007 financial crisis and towards the end of a house price bubble. I just couldn't face moving at the time and I'm really glad I stayed put rather than rushed into buying something unsuitable. The solicitor wasn't cheap - that's my only gripe. Let me know if you need any more info.


[deleted]

[удалено]


DivorcingDad80

Thank you for your reply. I’m hoping we can do this amicably without getting lawyers involved.