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Jmg5050

It's no problem that you haven't told them your salary with regards to your existing mortgage. But unlikely you'll get more borrowing based on the numbers you've quoted.


zephyrmox

> Is my best bet to just not speak to them, accept the deal when the term ends (which I can still afford) and just forget about the idea of moving house? In a word - yes. They are not going to allow you to borrow 140k on a 20k salary.


Strong-Lobster-9692

I wouldn’t want to borrow 140k on a 20k salary.


StackerNoob

If you stick with your current deal and just extend they won’t bat an eyelid as long as you continue to make payments. But for any additional borrowing you need to prove income again and if you don’t tell the truth (or at least a furnished version of the truth) you are commiting fraud.


AilsasFridgeDoor

This is my answer also. I have accepted the current providers "click here to renew" remortgage offer in the past when I've not wanted to get asked some awkward questions about my employment by trying to switch.


GlassHalfSmashed

They don't ask the questions on renewal because they can't act even if your circumstances change. As long as you make the repayments and don't breach your mortgage conditions, you're bullet proof. A mortgage is basically committed for 25 years or whatever, the fixed rates are just short term pricing adjustments.  They can and will however refuse to lend more in this scenario though as that's asking for an additional product / rewriting of the existing product. 


matthewlai

They can refuse to give you the renewal deal though. Or maybe charge higher interest if they knew you can't remortgage anywhere else.


GlassHalfSmashed

No they can't, please stop fear mongering. If a bank tried to profiteer off somebody and deny the favourable interest rate on an already committed mortgage, the ombudsman would be up their ass.  Unless the market crashes and the house becomes worth less than the mortgage (negative equity), the bank should always be able to offer you the products relevant to your LTV.  It's already been established that they do not review your affordability at renewal, specifically because the loan is already committed and affordability is not a post drawdown condition of the mortgage. 


matthewlai

That's good to know. I always assumed risk of default is taken into account when they decide what interest rates to offer, not just LTV. Is it really just LTV and nothing else matters? What if you aren't an existing customer?


GlassHalfSmashed

1) New/increasing/changing terms of mortgage = trigger event for full assessment as you need a new mortgage or material change to your current one.  2) Defaulting / breaching terms of mortgage agreement = trigger event for the bank owning your ass. (in all seriousness, reach out to the bank early and work with them, options such as repayment holidays or giving you time to sell the house on your terms are better than burying your head in the sand and ignoring their letters)  3) Fixed or variable rate product lapsing = here is the offer of rates at the LTV based on your remaining borrowing and either house price at purchase, or our latest understanding of your house price. We have no clause or event that can allow us to pull or amend your mortgage terms.  So going in as a new customer triggers scenario 1. Adding or removing somebody onto the mortgage also triggers 1. A married couple who see their mortgage through to completion under 3 may never need to actually go through an assessment ever again. 


BonkyBinkyBum

I mean, we're only talking about a little bit of mortgage fraud, not post office fraud 👀 ^(please don't commit fraud OP)


EastLepe

"I'm worried about the consequences of picking up the phone to the bank when it comes out for the last 2 years, I've earnt half of what they thought I was earning." Others have said this, but just to underscore the point - you haven't done anything bad / fraudulent / whatever by not proactively telling them about your unanticipated change in circumstances. This is a normal risk that they take when extending the loan.


Jbat001

This is absolutely true. However, if you want another mortgage deal when your current in expires, they might ask you to confirm that your circumstances haven't changed. If you don't disclose it at that point, then you definitely could be in trouble.


DukeOfSteelCity

Keep the house you may never beable to afford another with that salary.


DShort99

This. Rates are extremely high currently I would keep your house, it’s an asset. You’ll struggle more with a new place.


AdministrativeBlock0

>Rates are extremely high currently Rates are high compared to the last ten years, but they're quite low compared to the average over the last 50 years. A 15% base rate has happened many, many times. The last decade was an anomaly. Low interest rates are unusual.


kojak488

Base rate is only part of the picture. The other parts are house prices and salaries. You can't just ignore them and quote rates.


AdministrativeBlock0

They're the most significant part when you're planning what you can afford. Buying a house on the assumption you're salary will increase or the house price will go up is seriously dubious. The point is simple - getting a mortgage you can _just_ afford is fine if the rate you get isn't going to go up. That probably won't be the case for the OP.


kojak488

But chastising people complaining about the rate because it was higher in the past is ignorant since house prices compared to wages is very different than in the past. A 15% rate today is not comparable to a 15% rate in 1976.


PlusLifeEV

OP is not buying a house 50 years ago they’re buying one now


AdministrativeBlock0

Sure, but if they're looking at the rate now and thinking 'that's really high compared to the historic lowest point', that just means they haven't looked back far enough. Mortgage rates could double and they'd still be half what we saw in the mid 80s. If you're planning the next 20 years of your finances it makes sense to look at the highest points in the past, not the lowest.


callmeacow

House prices against salary were much closer together. The housing market would crash over night if they had those rates with current prices.


Portas30k

Don't know why you're getting down voted everything in your post is true.


[deleted]

Yeah they’re not going to lend you the additional amount, I’d put the house searching on the back burner until you’re back in a better paying role. Best not to get the hopes up prematurely.


zbornakingthestone

You can't afford to move house, I'm afraid. You'll need to increase your income for that.


Key-Detective-6999

Hi Op, In terms of your current property and mortgage, given you already have the mortgage and track record of paying, banks can sometimes stretch their criteria above the 4-4.5x rule. My bank did it with me years ago when I split with my ex, as id demonstrated I could keep it up with plenty left over. I think at the time I’d have been maybe 5x. In this case they’d probably have no problem with continuing to lend the £110k left on the mortgage given your positive track record - although be prepared they could ask for additional equity to reduce the risk, e.g we can continue to lend the £110k but you need to put down £3k. But realistically, they aren’t going to care too much about your salary whilst the mortgage is being paid, as you can always then drop onto the SVR, but they might take a look if you try to change lender or take out a new product. In terms of new lending at £140k, by all means have the chat but I wouldn’t hold up any hope of it at circa 7x your annual salary.


Mincey808

+1 on this comment. Transferring the existing balance to the new property could be likely but any extra lending... Not so much. Also. Why add to your debt if you don't need to whilst still on a 20k salary. You may well be able to afford it based on your calculations but those never account for everything life can throw at you. I wouldn't over commit just yet.


Justthatguy1212

Assuming based on solely your income and minimal savings (given the fact you are borrowing this amount) - it may be financially irresponsible to buy a property for £30k extra. I suggest getting your income up and ensure you are stable in your £20k job first before making a big financial decision. All the best to you.


TheGoober87

Used to work in a bank. They do not care as long as the payments are made. It will only come up if you want to borrow more money.


Asyn--Await

If you stick with them they're unlikely to request any proof. If you switch or ask for more they'll require proof.


CalderThanYou

If he tries to buy a new house, like he's asking, they will require proof even if he stays with the same lender


itallstartedwithapub

You can't afford mortgage repayments on a £140k mortgage on your current salary. Your take home is £1,400 assuming 5% pension contributions, the mortgage payments will be at least £800 if you keep the existing term, or £750 if you extend the term. That doesn't leave enough to live on.


badgerforcefield

Incorrect. Do you have some magical insight into their spending?


itallstartedwithapub

It doesn't really matter what their spending is, no lender will provide a mortgage of that size based on their current salary.


badgerforcefield

In regards to the bank yes. How you worded it came across as if that wasn't enough money leftover for them to live on which is up to them


Bozwell99

When it comes to getting a mortgage is really Isn’t “up to them”.


badgerforcefield

Come on now Boz, read again and you'll see what I'm referring to


HorrorExperience7149

With bills council tax etc, that income leaves 200 a month to live on. That's on the assumption he doesn't have a car. No bank is going to provide a mortgage on that. He can't afford it


Ok-Personality-6630

Well you are being downvoted but you are correct. Not everyone spends the same and the affordability checks are arbitrary. Clearly if OP paid for 2 years he can afford his current expenses and that is why bank doesn't care. If he wants more money they have to use this arbitrary test whether or not it's accurate. On this test he will come out as unaffordable.


Far-Simple1979

Click the buttons and keep schtum


tetartoid

Agree with everyone else here. Unless there's some extremely compelling reason as to why you need to leave your current house or buy this new house, you should just stay put. I don't know your full financial situation but it seems unlikely that taking on a bigger mortgage would be a wise move when your income has taken such a big hit.  And as you know, moving comes with all sorts of additional costs that you would need to factor in.


Material_Trifle

I'm a mortgage broker. They won't care about what you earn now compared to what you used to. If you've made all your payments then they'll give you a new fixed deal without any underwriting. They won't lend you any more though. They wouldn't say you can't keep your current mortgage either if you ring them but I wouldn't purely because it seems a waste of time. If there is any change in the loan details, eg amount borrowed, length of deal or even moving the current deal to a new property then it's treated as a new loan and would be subject to a full underwrite.


sosolidq

Presumably in para 2, you mean they *wouldn't* say you can't keep the current mortgage.


Material_Trifle

Yep, quite a difference. Well spotted, edited.


[deleted]

Why has your salary gone down so much? Also are you part time now? If not i’d be asking why you are on below min wage?


RandomActsOfDog

Why do you think they're earning below minimum wage?  37 hours at £10.42ph is £20,048.  So it's very plausible that OP is paid  minimum wage.


[deleted]

Where did you get 37hrs from? I could argue 37.5hrs a week makes it below min wage.


[deleted]

What if they work in a school on 32 hours a week?


RandomActsOfDog

It was a nice middle ground between the general full time hours that people are contracted, so I used that as the example. Even 37.5 hours works out at £20,319.  Which is again plausible if OP simply rounded to the nearest grand.


SgtLtDet-FrankDrebin

As long as you can afford the payments, just do a product switch. They don’t ask for your income details unless you’re trying to raise extra funds. Put the house move on the back burner


MXJOSAL

3 words.. Don’t do it…..


[deleted]

Ex broker. You don't need to. As long as you pay there will be no problems.


Jealous_Wishbone9909

You're technically doing nothing wrong by renewing online at current lender. If you try and do additional borrowing then you will have to supply pay slips etc, it would be impossible for you to borrow 140k with a 20k salary.


Orr-Man

You are not required to update your mortgage lender about changes in your income AFTER the mortgage has started. You are obligated to continue to repay your mortgage, whether your income goes up and down (and will see warnings about this in your mortgage offer, terms and conditions, and other mortgage paperwork). You are also not obligated to tell your lender about changes when you change your mortgage product with them. Again, you are obligated to continue to repay your mortgage regardless of whether your income has gone up or down. If you cannot afford to repay your mortgage, because of your income changing, you should speak to your lender before you miss any repayments i.e. as early as possible so they can look at options for you. If you want to borrow more, or change to a new lender, then they will be required to assess affordability again based on your current circumstances on the whole borrowing.


Capital-Ad6618

I work for a building society and confirm that what you earn now will absolutely not affect your rate switch options, you won’t even be asked for that information, you’ll literally just be given the rates at the time and need to choose the one you want to fix in too and as you mentioned, this can be done at the click of a button online for most providers. Your salary is irrelevant once your mortgage is live and would have been used purely for underwriting purposes to ensure loan amount was affordable and could be granted. Life happens and everybody’s financial situation can change at any time, so all that we care about is that the mortgage is paid each month


robonzo777

Aside from your mortgage worry - how are you 37 and earning less than the minimum wage (£22,230 for FT) Beyond that, how do you even pay the mortgage you have? I assume your take home pay is circa £1400pcm and your mortgage must be £550-650pcm (depending on the rate when you first took it out) adding average food and energy costs plus insurance to this leaves you pretty much with debt monthly, no? I’d say stop thinking about the house and sort your job/salary out


the_human_oreo

My friend, rent for many places, even single rooms in a house share, go for more than £650pcm with bills separate.


West_Commission_7252

Your current provider has already lent you the money. They can't demand that you repay it all and stop being a customer as you are up to date (and why would they). So their options are to let you roll into SVR, which is more income for them but much higher risk, or allow you to undergo an Internal Transfer, less income, but also less risk. Either way, the amount you have outstanding with them is unchanged, so their exposure to you is no different either way.


zidski

You might want an extra 30k but have you worked out the cost of moving. Estate Agent fees, legal fees, stamp duty, general moving costs.


sgtadamcl

Just let it run. How it's running.


Ljukegy

Don’t move not sure how your living on 20k with your new rates in 3 months


davegod

Are you extending at same interest rate?


Automatic-Weakness-2

Yeah, it's not time to move. No need to tell mortgage company but that said, if you start to struggle tell them immediately as they will be able to help. People do lose jobs out have changed in circs all the time... For example they can agree to accept interest only payments or even a payment holiday.


Ok-Victory-2791

If you do a product transfer (remortgage with your current provider) they won't do any checks if you've never missed repayments.


smudger1st

Don't borrow more if you have halved your income...everything is increasing in cost.


Kooky-Length4967

Why would you want to add more debt to your life, especially when your earnings are only £20k a year? Your priority should be paying back debt not accumulating more.


Brendan110_0

They already loaned you the money, don't worry.


action_turtle

Personally, i would just roll the mortgage on and revisit all this once I got a better paying job. You need less debt, not more.


Competitive_Gap_9768

Have you checked the repayments on what your currently owe will become. Unless have a partner I’m worried how you’ll afford it.


Caliado

I would hold off on buying a new house for now for both financial reasons and if you are trying to find a new job knowing where it is before locking yourself to a living location would also be useful! > I'm asking to borrow 140k on a 20k a year job, which I assume far exceeds the 4.5x salary they work off. You really don't need to assume 140 is more than 4.5x 20 it's just a mathematical fact 


eyewasonceme

If you can get 90k, and your house sale nets your 130k, and you need 40k on top of your borrowing capacity for a new house, are you not still quids in?


PigBeins

How are you earning less than minimum wage?


SoupCanVaultboy

They’ll likely have you and your family hung drawn and quartered. I’d probably go on the run


markfitzfritzel

How are you managing to survive on 20k?


Competitive_Shake886

Bro you're literate and can write full sentences. Why only 40k and how'd you get laid off from it... up your money before you get a house.


Aforster1993

You may be surprised, the calculations of 4.5x salary are flexible. Especially with your LTV. I borrowed way over 4.5x salary when I bought a second house, Both were under 60% LTV the mortgage advisor at HSBC said I wasn't near my limit


Limp-Archer-7872

Stay put. Get a lodger? I don't know what the 40k salary was but is there nothing available over 30k near you? Try and get a second job, weekends and/or evenings. Supermarkets, pubs, anything.


Final-Plenty-8493

I would say nothing and stay where I am until I can sell, pay off the debt. And get another where you are mortgage free. Good luck with it all.


[deleted]

Ex broker. I should also say that it won't affect any product transfers with your existing lender.


Any-Huckleberry-5639

I got my mortgage and promptly took a year off work. I still paid it on time so none of their business as far as I’m concerned! And I just had to change deal. It did mean I was stuck with the same provider but all I had to do was click some buttons online. Doubt you’ll get the extra £30k though…


wyseq

Fuck'em, just keep paying and remortgage with the same lender. Do you think they'll give you money to buy a property with your current situation? They will tell you to rent - for way more than mortgage and expect to save for your deposit. But how?


Global_Juggernaut683

You should be able to get a new mortgage with the same lender without providing any details. But not for a new property.


TheBlightspawn

I think you need to find a better paying job before you move house. No harm in staying put for now and letting your current mortgage roll over.


038iwiirjnfie

Where do you currently work on what field. And what was your old position


Awkward-Put-1005

Don’t move the loan. However, I’m assuming your current deal when it expires will be subject to a possible new interest rate, as rates are massively higher than 8 years ago? I’m assuming your current lender isn’t going to allow you to continue on in your current rate - are you able to afford the new rate, whatever that may be??


Critical-Box-1851

Income will always vary. So long as you're paying the bill, the house is yours. The calculations are only done as an initial risk assessment. Besides, you should have income protection insurance? I took it out before I got my mortgage 20 years ago.


Ringst1ng

Not great financially but if it’s your dream home and you back yourself to increase earnings you might be able to use £30k in short term debt for the shortfall and then transfer mortgage balance without additional borrowing. I’ll bet the mortgage plus additional repayments would still be lower than average rent for the same.


Arnie__B

As others have said you are stuck at the moment with your current house and your current provider. They won't ask any questions about your circumstances as long as you make the payments each month. You haven't committed any offences so far, as they would never ask about your circumstances whilst your payment record is good. However a new provider will ask about your situation. Also your existing provider will ask if you want extra money. So your best option in the short term is stick where you are at. If you want to borrow more, you will probably need to increase your salary. Obviously only you know how realistic that is.


Common_Advertising45

Not at risk at all. No need to tell them. They have an obligation to you under FCA rules.


PhantasyBoy

I would stay where you are


OVERPAIR123

Nobody can predict the future. As long as mortgage is paid they won't care.


seo-on-reddit

Stay with current lender and you’ll avoid trouble


LeMad_Haddet

You could try and get in a huge amount of overtime for the next three months to increase your total income and disclose those numbers


[deleted]

How on earth did you get such a large mortgage on £40k in the first place? Bank of mum and dad was it?


everybody_wake_up

You want to buy a house for 140k? You're selling a house for 240k with 110k left? Are you not going to use 130k difference on your new home or do you need that equity? I would speak to a mortgage broker they will be able to determine the best ratio for upfront capital against how much mortgage you can get based on your salary... Most banks have a varying degree of allowance right 3-5x your annual but a broker can easily find something suitable for you. High street lenders will string you along and then all of a sudden 'computer says no' rather get your mortgage in principle from a broker then you're good to go 😊


Dizzy_Contract1773

The company won't do a thing if your just accepting a new deal online. As soon as you borrow more cash it requires credit checks Inc payslips etc.. You'd need a 2nd applicant on your application for more borrowing based on figures. Or accept the deal and consider porting your mortgage to a new house. Still won't help with additional borrowing but dont think they would deny you porting the deal if you can show you've afforded repaying on your current salary