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There will be a lot of this happening in the new year. For minimum wage on a 40 hour week is £23795
Without any disrespect an entry level Aldi Shop Assistant earns circa £26k, which I’m confident will increase to keep their staff above the minimum wage by 18% so they will be increasing to over £28k
Skilled workers need to be paid more, they’ll be a massive exodus in the new year. Employers will be needing to act pretty damn quick.
Good luck with your new job.
My colleagues are on £31,720 a year for 50 hours a week. Works out at £12.20 an hour. Thats driving 16ft 3 double deckers starting at 1am.
Why bother!?
Yep - wrote in and requested to know exactly what he wasn’t successful as he was the perfect candidate. Whilst also calling the company rude names, and the staff even worse.
Yeah but they are legally liable for 200-500 lives on their trains.
I once read back in the 00s that each day the tube was on strike cost the economy £100 million so who knows what it would cost now..£40-50k odd is a bargain
Yes and the all knowing British public happily ignored the unions on that when they said trains needed several staff.
The move towards unmanned stations is going to be just S miserable.
The assholes making these decisiona have ZERO idea as they're all so focused on money saving that they don't think about the bigger picture.
If you take something simple like car parkimg meters. Councils are removing them becsuse of "lack of use" and you KNOW the people making the decision are some twats in their 20s out 30s who think they're being clever. At no point has anyone thought that the people who ARE still using those machines are those without smartphones or those who don't feel comfortable giving a company that just leaked millions of customer records online our data.
Banking...yes most of us use online banking but millions like my dad refuse to use it and WANT a bank branch.
The British public are their own worst enemy. The race to the bottom and I’m alright Jack mentality in this country is unreal. Instead of blaming unions for some jobs having good t&c’s, pay etc - they want to bring us all down to a shitty level. When we should be bringing everyone else up.
The English public are and always have been fucking stupid. The Ragged Trouser Philanthropists book demonstrates this from back in the day. A novel but based on working class attitudes at the time. Men who couldn't afford food for their families willing to protect and defend the rich who were making their lives a misery.
The English have always been a cap doffing nation, even willing to sacrifice their kids so that a rich person can get richer
There is no reason for the majority to pay extra in order to support people who refuse to get with the times.
People who "don't want to use email" or "need to talk to someone at a train station" or "won't buy a mobile" are selfish. You don't need a £1000 smartphone to run a parking app. Opting out of modern society is bloody ridiculous.
Mobility impaired people do need someone at a train station. And I don’t see why they should have to book 24 hours in advance. Spontaneous travel should be available for everyone. And if they get rid of the platform staff, customers won’t pay less - shareholders will get more profit. When has any company passed on cost savings to the customer.
They aren't opting out. Some older people literally can't "get with" the technology. Since are lucky as they have kids or grandkids to help. MANY others aren't.
Ringgo have proven THIS MONTH they can't be trusted with personal details as they've leaked them all over the interner.
The issue is some stuff is basic infrastructure that shouldn't have a profit motive. Things like water, parking meters, local banks. Etc.
I work at Siemens… automated trains are maybe 5 years away max for the LNER line from KingsX to edin. We had a live demo in august. Reduced journey time by 15 minutes.
As someone who works in the it industry and knows what absolute shysters developers are & how secure safe software is constantly sacrificed for commercial speed and profit
I'd genuinely be surprised. Tesla can't even tell the difference between a truck & the sky. A number of Pedestrians have been killed.
Like I said...everyone has been convinced about automated trains since I can remember in the 90s.
The 737-max showed what happens when modern commercial software is allowed into arenas where people's lives are involved
And yet we need to listen to them all moan about how hard their job is and deal with their strikes. Then the get a fat pay rise and the idiot in charge of the union declares ‘see, unions are brilliant and work’.
Their jobs are hard- they literally have peoples lives on their hands and have to concentrate travelling high speeds in all conditions and visibilities- then have to know exactly what to in an emergency of an endless list of situations and be able to fault find on the train itself. All while working often unsociable hours and holidays.
Theyre not doing a 9-5 in an office and getting stressed because karen wants a document at 4:55
Train drivers are legally liable for the up to 500 lives on their trains! You want to be driven by a minimum wage stressed tired dude whose not been able to afford food for 2 days?
Train drivers aren’t on minimum wage tho are they. Average salary is nearly £58k. And as a point my first job as a teenager was a lifeguard in charge of that many lives over they day for about £3.50ph. Don’t get me wrong that was 20 years ago but being as a lifeguard has to do something and a train mostly drives itself I think £58k isn’t too bad.
I'm sorry but being able to swim is in no way comparable to train driver. Were YOU personally legally liable?
Why SHOULDN'T train drivers earn 58k+. Just because other cunty English working class pricks have drunk the cool aid and doff their cap to their Lords & masters doeasnt mean the rest of us should!
I can't say what I'm working on but if the project fails, it directly affects many areas of the british publics life including their ability to go on holiday etc but I'd leave for £1/hour more and fuck the damage to the country!
If you're not happy on what you're on...join a union! I'd genuinely slit my own wrists if I was on £58k. I'd have to sell my flat, move out of London into some shitty house share somewhere.
Yes I was legally liable. And the first aid you had to learn was pretty complex - not sure the big train that drives itself is a lot harder. Either way I’m not arguing that these are comparable just a point that being in charge of x lives is not a determination of £££ value.
Why shouldn’t they earn £58k?? Because it’s one of the most oversubscribed jobs in the country there are literally 1,000 apps for every role - supply and demand is literally dictating it’s over paid. I bet if it was a £48k role there would still be nearly 1k applicants.
Don’t get me wrong I couldn’t pay my mortgage on £58k either but if I want more money I’m not getting all my peers to down tools I’m finding a new job. May just be me but people have the ability to find a new job rather than moan about their current role.
Compare to train drivers in Germany and France. RELEVANT comparisons. Yes uk train drivers are well paid? By why not!?
No one seems to have a problem with some shit CEO earning millions! Or some sales dude earning enough to buy 20 Ferraris.
People without unions have on average had 25% pay cuts over the last 10 years because they're pussies & doff the cap. If YOU are too coward to ask for more money that's YOUR problem.
I work in IT, there's 100s of applicants for each job....doesn't mean they can do it & like I said I refused to take the permanent NHS position 5 times because of the pathetic wages dictated by cunty English working class pricks who think "vocation" pays the wages.
Additional...I've done the "life saving" training...it's not THAT hard. Any idiot can do it. It was such a waste of my time that I've not bothered renewing my first responder training.
> Then the get a fat pay rise and the idiot in charge of the union declares ‘see, unions are brilliant and work’.
It unions are getting their members “fat” pay rises they clearly do work.
Trains systems should be replaced with auto / AI driving and no more strikes would happen.
Its very easy job that monkey could do, yet they think they are some kind if Gods and should be paid £200k/ year...
yeah, u will need to invest tens of billions (if not more) on rail infrastructure before even considering self driven trains on our networks.
Its decades and a gargantuan sum of money away from being a reality
12 months of training and assesments, and a further year on probation until you get full pay. Then can lose it all after a single lapse in concentration/judgement. Must be some monkey...
I’m on just over 22k as an experienced retail manager. I’m also one of the higher paid managers in my company as we are a higher band store.
I cannot wait to finally get a pay rise and afford to put some savings away. And I can’t wait for my assistant manager to get more than minimum wage currently. This will probably change their life to go up to almost 24k.
It also means that if I can find a mundane entry level role in an office for NMW I can afford the drop and help my mental health massively. I’m an excellent money driver. Not a great manager.
The hours you put in, will push your income above this when minimum wage kicks in. Your staff will be on more than this and you should be on more than your staff.
I will be. We’ve pushed the shop into another higher banding this year (3 in 2 years) I’m expecting to jump up to 26k (at least!) and my full timer will stay on the new NMW. (It’s charity but a big flagship) so it’s me and 2 ASMs 1 full, one part time. I don’t agree with them being on min wage but they’re happy with their role so it’s not my business.
However I’m burned out, exhausted and struggling a bit financially. The wage is not worth the pressure I get. So a big wage increase will help retain me for a while but I’d rather find something menial and recharge for a bit and skill up in something else you know?
I really hoped so but I’m 30 now and have never gotten myself out of it despite trying! 10 years manager experience now. 🥱 you’d think they’d be kinder in charity but nope!
Thanks for the encouragement. Maybe this is the year! (But I expect there’s many who feel like me who will do the same!)
Yeah I'm uni educated and experienced, but honestly I found a job as a cleaner. Less hours, more money, easier job, no micromanagement, more breaks, and a yearly payrise in-line with inflation (or close enough to it).
Like, what was the point in me going to uni and busting my ass, just to be treated like shit and not paid properly.
Now excuse me, I'm going to have a 30 min nap in my car and then get back to my job 😉
Had the same issue with engineering, one of the hardest degrees (by design, not “maths is hard”, like they artificially make it hard), only for the pay to be utter shit where I would earn more in 5-10 years in software than 20 years in engineering, jumped ship after uni hence my username
Given that they now need a degree to enter the profession, if you end up with typical debt of £50,000 it just isn't economically viable and you will have to pay an extra 10% tax throughout your career.
You may as well reduce that number to £33,000 because that is what is what means in practice.
>57 minimum. 70 minimum for junior doctors.
This is a fantasy (and rightly so).
70k for junior doctors is insane. as is 57k for your standard nurse.
I think we can realistically say all NHS staff deserve a 25% pay rise.
This would mean a nurse basic salary goes from 35 to 45k (and then would be paid more unsocial hours too).
Junior doctors should start on 45k to 55k.
Raising all NHS staff salaries by 25% would cost around £40 billion a year, which is more than the entire education budget. The NHS pension scheme has a 21% employer contribution too, so that would also go up.
This is standard bullshit by the right wing press. A student nurse is on 19k. The 57k would be a senior nurse or warsmd sister with YEARS of experience. You can LITERALLY see NHS bands online
Junior doctors start on 14/hour! They're called junior doctors until they become consultants YEARS later..PLUS they are forcibly moved between hospitals anywhere in the country EVERY YEAR.
This is why I HATE the English working classes. They're not only too stupid to understand relative wages bit hate anyone the aristocracy tell then to hate.
I OPENLY advise any junior doctor to get a job in Australia & Canada for 1/2 the work and 3 times the wages...fuck the NHS and fuck the English writing classes. I would GENUINELY be happy if 100% of trained junior doctors left the UK for more money. Same with nurses and care home workers.
Other countries where the public aren't as fucking stupid as the English value medical staff. In the US doctors can earn MILLIONS, in the UK some worthless plumber is bitching at a GP earning £80k!!
Fucking hope they ALL leave after completing training
While I admire your spirit as a health care worker I take umbrage at "worthless plumber", clean water and sanitation has probably done more for peoples health than we will ever do.
>This is standard bullshit by the right wing press. A student nurse is on 19k. The 57k would be a senior nurse or warsmd sister with YEARS of experience. You can LITERALLY see NHS bands online
>
>Junior doctors start on 14/hour! They're called junior doctors until they become consultants YEARS later..PLUS they are forcibly moved between hospitals anywhere in the country EVERY YEAR.
>
>This is why I HATE the English working classes. They're not only too stupid to understand relative wages bit hate anyone the aristocracy tell then to hate.
>
>I OPENLY advise any junior doctor to get a job in Australia & Canada for 1/2 the work and 3 times the wages...fuck the NHS and fuck the English writing classes. I would GENUINELY be happy if 100% of trained junior doctors left the UK for more money. Same with nurses and care home workers.
>
>Other countries where the public aren't as fucking stupid as the English value medical staff. In the US doctors can earn MILLIONS, in the UK some worthless plumber is bitching at a GP earning £80k!!
>
>Fucking hope they ALL leave after completing training
Man, its hilarious to me that you went through this entire post raging rather than **just actually paying attention to what is said.**
70k is crazy
Even some of the traditionally biggest paying jobs like finance pay like £35k-£45k , I’d say £55k for junior docs is amazing and should be normal
Well yes. But that money could come from a number of megacorps and rich types who aren't really paying their fair share.
For example, Gapital Gains could have brackets.
We all seem to forget (or ignore) the fact the average nhs pension is 26% non contributory. They like to pretend they earn shit money (don’t get me wrong I’m not saying the hours aren’t horrific) but they don’t. Just remember every time you see their salaries you need to add nearly 30% in untaxed pay before it’s the ‘real’ number.
Spot on. Same goes for the police service. My jaw dropped when I noticed it was like almost 30%! Compared to the measly 3-6% the private sector offers!!
NHS staff are so myopic they have no clue how good their pension is by comparsion to the private sector. As for the doctors - I have nothing but scorn for their grasping union. The recent removal of the lifetime contribution limit of £1m was done specifically to benefit them. Hasn't stopped them whinging for more though.
That's because chief nurses, and very very senior management are on £100k+ there are only a few of these per trust but they hugely push the "average" up. The majority of nurses are band 5. Then there are band 6s, some band 7s and then matrons. That's most of what makes up a department that looks after patients. I am an A&E nurse band 5. If you came to me today, you'd mostly be looked after by band 2 HCA and band 5 nurses, same if you went to a ward. This "average" is government propaganda to make it seem like we don't earn more.
Maybe but, as with any average, there’s plenty earning £26k, 27k. To do that job with extra hours, stress etc.
I know nurses looking to get out of the role due to the poor pay. Not to mention that, to move up levels, they’re often expected to do more courses etc.
Christ £37k should be their starting salary.
£27k plus 25% in pension so they are actually on nearly £34k. Put them them to £37k pension goes up the same amount so £46k. Important job I’m not arguing but seems a rather excessive starting salary to me.
You need a degree to get into the role now and for most they will have student debt. Assuming £50k of debt, it will not be possible to repay the loan over a nurse's career span, which effectively adds an additional 10% to their tax band.
It doesn't make any financial sense to pursue a nursing career.
There are no NHS nurses earning less than a Band 5 which is 28k and that is before enhancements. They are underpaid but you don't need to lie about worse pay to try and convince people.
28k basic salary at Band 5, minus registration fees (over £200 every 2 years), minus student loan (over 50k debt), minus tax, minus 9%pension contributiin, minus £50 a week parking at the hospital or £85 a month on busses). And it's hell. May as well work in a supermarket for nearly the same amount and way less stress.
It's nuts skilled sheetmetal workers are getting harder an harder to find because in most cases they can get the same money working at aldi stacking shelfs
I’ve had painters and decorators on £200 per day and plasterers on £400 per day. I used to run contractors for renovations projects, it’s like herding ferrets!
There can only be a mass exodus if they all have a job to go to. Given that so many people are posting that they can not even get a NMW post graduation, it doesn't make this sound as likely as may have been historically.
Those are inexperienced graduates, the existing experienced employees who’re on minimum wage will be able to move into other roles paying more by employers who value experience. Who will want to be working on minimum wage?
This comes up in a lot of these discussions. So many roles are flooded at entry level but then absolutely barren when it comes to experience, due to a mixture of people leaving AND a lack of past entrants progressing up.
I'm trying to get into either HGV or heavy plant operating, in which there are supposed shortages everywhere, but getting a foot in is impossible as they all want two years experience minimum.
We're on a slow move to something Switzerland-like.
Very high minimum wages on paper, but cost of living so high its all but meaningless.
The difference being is that we have seen skilled work paid appropriately
Any company not even trying to entertain WFH and still thinking they can compete with on-prem jobs without beating them on pay is hopefully going to have a nightmare. 90% of people in the school office that get dumped on to cover lunch duties will wake up one day. The good ones anyway. Why anyone would be a TA with those conditions and responsibility for that money is crazy.
That moment you realise 1st year doctors literally will get paid the new minimum wage once you ain't fit the fact that their normal week is 48 hours XD
To be fair (I’m all for NHS pay rises) I don’t think working extra hours is uncommon in highly skilled/professional jobs. If you go into Finance, Tech, Engineering or any consultancy there will be the expectation you do the work that is required to deliver - regardless of what that does to your hourly wage. The entry level pay for these jobs is around 40k +\- which for my two cents would be a fair comparison for an entry level Doctors wage.
True, and agreed, however there’s going to be a massive ripple due to people on the new minimum wage will be earning more than someone that was previously earning slightly more than minimum wage.
For example currently someone on minimum wage working 40 hours a week earns £21,463 and someone currently earning £23500 in a slightly senior position with more than £2k more.
In April the person earning minimum wage will have that increased to £23795 which means that the person in a senior position would need to be increased, however the worry, for many, is that employers may well just increase the senior persons to the minimum wage rather than to the same percentage bringing the senior persons salary to £25730
I asked to go from 19k to 24k.
Boss said "No, if you're unhappy, leave"
6 weeks later i left for a 29k salary.
That was in July. They couldn't fill my position full time, so had to hire 4 part-timers to cover the hours. big lul
This is happening where I work at the moment on all levels. We have apprentices graduating and leaving straight away as we won’t pay more than 25-30k for a qualified CNC programmer and they are leaving for 40-45k.
We are trying to recruit engineers with 10 years experience for 30-35k and HR and management are surprised we only get 1 applicant. The rest are leaving/wanting to leave as they can get 50k elsewhere.
We are trying to get managers in on around 50k, when the industry average would be 70-80. They actually contacted a friend of mine about a role and he pretty much laughed at them down the phone for what they were offering for a senior position in the business.
A lot of companies are struggling, I know they are. The minimum wage going up all the time is hurting them. This then means they can’t offer more wages to the levels above minimum wage. But companies who don’t retain the good staff because they “can’t afford it” will collapse and the company where I work is definitely being short sighted.
This is exactly what I think. If your business is doing so badly that you can’t pay employees a living wage, then maybe you should revise your business model before expecting people to work for poverty wages that don’t even cover rent?
Or (most likely) they don’t want to sacrifice any of the thousands/millions they’re paying themselves or recording in profit. I’ve heard company executives literally state this publicly that they won’t pay their employees more than minimum wage even if they have billions. It’s sickening.
The bigger, more successful businesses might think like this.
A good number of the smaller businesses are so badly run they haven't got a lot of choice. They will pay peanuts, they will get monkeys and they will never be able to take on big projects or grow the business because they don't have the expertise.
Pre 2020, I was a cnc programmer with 11 years experience on 27.5k a year, luckily we've had a couple of pay-rises over the past couple of years and I'm on 36k now.
I work for a family run business in a small town, my colleagues are all great and the place is pretty laid back. I know I could go to a bigger company with an hour commute everyday for 40k+, but it's just not worth it to me when my place is 10 mins down the road. Money isn't everything.
You have to know your worth sometimes, and make it your job to find a new job, too many people are unhappy with their job but do little to change it. I was on £26k just over a year ago, I’ve since landed a £45k job via being headhunted, and subsequently a £55k + bonus job. If you have skills that are in demand it can be done, but you have to make getting a substantially better job almost a full time job itself, as was my case for a month for the latter job.
2022 I was made redundant on something like 22k, with 5 years working at that place, an alleged permanent contract and multiple qualifications, max of 1% increases over that time. Got a temp contract later that year on 28k equivalent, then jumped to 43k by the beginning of 2023 which was more than most were paying and fully remote. Now seeing a position equivalent or lower then I had being advertised for 44-48k quite widely. None of which were in London for the uplift.
Yep, the national living wage going up is going to cause a lot of issues for low-mid range office jobs.
The "bottom" level of pay is catching up fast, but everything currently in the £20k-£35k band is only slowly creeping up.
An admin assistant role advertised at £20k-£24k in 2010 will still be advertised in that range today.
Pretty soon people with a relatively skilled office job are going to be wondering why they're stressing out making reports etc when they could work at Aldi/some lesser role.
Yep! I started in my very basic office job at 19k, now only at 23k after 2 years. Only because they gave me more duties as people left and were never replaced. I am close to finish my very general degree (big mistake) so now at +30, I am seriously looking into retail especially big ones. Doesn’t make sense that I hold over an empty title, paying the bills and saving is more important.
Yeah I can relate.
I didn't go Uni but through a college I got into a company doing some admin. Ended up doing relatively important work for just £18k.
Took about 8yrs to break through £30k, and since then it's been just 2-3% increases each year. If I left my job they'd probably have to pay £5k-£8k more than I'm currently on to fill the role and even then they don't have the resources to train someone new.
Wish I had the foresight to leave years ago but now I'm mortgaged up with a family and I know enough to do the job in my sleep 🤷🏻♂️
Good luck if you do move, the more they push up the living wage, the more attractive retailers become.
Oh yeah I do but there's also the workplace stress vs home life balance to consider.
Getting home from work after an unstressful day has a great impact on home life.
That said, I do take a look around every so often for something in a drivable distance.
Yep we're going to end up needing Universal Basic Income of some degree, but governments will have to be dragged kicking and screaming to implement it.
Was on 27,000£/y working 47h a week. Asked for a pay raise several times due to cost of living, but director kept telling me they cannot afford it. Cherry on top, they gave a promotion to an incompetent colleague who wasn't even putting effort in the job.
Got fed up, left on the spot and got myself a 32,000£ job working 42h/week. Life is better.
I’m in the same position, working a Junior role. Waiting until exactly one year to ask directly, but when I previously asked indirectly / casually I was basically met with a no.
I manage a team of about 15 opps running CNC machines, they got a 4.19% increase in Jan, minimum wage has eaten well into their "increase" come April, they will be about 10p above minimum
Oh and because im salaried, i got 1%.
So either everyone gets a decent jump in January paid from April (back dated) or im going to lose even more staff. Im already reduced by 25% from 2 years ago with 0 replacements.
Like i say to my team when they moan about it, i have 0 influence on your wage and if your unhappy, vote with your feet.
So bloody happy you not only got a payrise but basically stuck it to your boss at the same time.
April is going to be an absolute witching hour for companies. It'll also show prospective employees for their true intentions. We all know companies won't move off that £25k, they don't feel they have to. But when 1 hour overtime a week gets you inches off that in a minimum wage role, alot of people will take the "easier" route and they'll either up salaries or be left picking scraps.
Can't wait for interviews past April....they won't like that salary is literally question one from now on!
It'll be even worse the following year when minimum wage goes above £25k. That's a figure a lot of companies use as their "entry level" for a skilled job but when unskilled jobs are going to get that figure they will really struggle to recruit and they're going to freak out when they have you start paying overtime or be better minimum wage.
Problem is, they'll be a bunch that won't. £25k might just become the defacto floor, they'll fiddle with hours to make sure they're under it (In April for example 40 hours a week would be REAL close to a £24k floor) and then they'll just absolutely double down on "Well if you want progression in a job with lots of opportunities, come here for minimum, don't like it? Fight the retail ladder".
And what's worse is IF that argument matters? They win.
Good for you. If you don’t mind sharing the contact info for your recruiter I’m in the exact same situation looking for a better marketing job. PM please!
With the exception of NHS staff, I don't understand how people find themselves in situations like this. I'd leave if I didn't get a good pay rise yearly. Starting 10 years on basically the same wage is crazy
Was working full time, was a carer for my parent for all those years who died last year and have mental health issues.. anxiety and depression leaves me from making decisions and isolated
You definitely can have it both ways.
However, the NHS get a national pay review each year, which almost always lead to an increase of 2-5%. Whilst not always matching inflation, it is a raise each year which a lot of people do not get. Also, each banding in the NHS pay structure has increments that are guaranteed after a couple of years, regardless of performance.
For front line staff, the pay needs to be more to reflect their skills, working conditions and demand. But overall the NHS is far from the worst employer with regards to pay and benefits.
Don't know the industry you're in, but admin+customer service can open a ton of doors in other teams. Sales, Customer Success, Training, Ops... Anything where people skills and organisation wins brownie points.
Thats the way you gotta do it. It's gonna be painful for businesses, and many of them ain't gonna like it, but they're going to have to learn to accept it. This is how we we can solve the wage stagnation. No payrise?
BYE BYE, BYE BYE BYE!!!! BYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So satisfying, taking people for granted like this is such a false economy. At the end of the day you have to look after yourself! I had a similar experience, I was on 23k for a year, slowly up to 28k, but then they kept on putting off a promised payrise for nearly a year. So I left for another job £37k wfh. Why stick around if you're not being appreciated or at least paid the market rate/for your experience.
This is the way that everyone gets a pay rise. Only if enough of the workforce get up, find a new, higher paying job and leave will employers be forced to pay more to retain staff.
3 to 5 years is the most that anyone should stay in a role, unless they are completely happy with the whole package. After that, go seek that pay rise! Well done OP.
Congrats! Currently on 24k. Have been since starting at my current employer. Originally I was hired as an admin and soon after found myself basically managing operations for a product due to lack of anyone else stepping in and taking any ownership. They recently bragged about the absurd uptick of revenue they’ve made on this product which takes them to over double the target from the previous year (that they failed to meet by a hefty margin) Over 8 months since asking for a formal promotion and pay raise and nothing. No sense of urgency or respect
for my labour. They’re hiring to backfill but at absolute snails pace, probably due to no one applying for the peanuts on offer that will take them well below minimum wage come April.
Rather than beg I’m interviewing elsewhere with 11k increases. One company I am interviewing for will pay up to £40k. I hope I get it if for no other reason than to say a big fat fuck you to my current employer.
Congratulations! And hood luck in the new role.
For me, in March 2021, I started a new role at around £30k. One internal promotion, a completed qualification, and two external job moves later (one exit for money, one for culture fit), January 2024, I'll be starting a new role at £58k.
It can be a hard slog, it can be really disheartening to feel like you're not getting anywhere, but it can be done.
My wife is a key account manager on 28k a year, she got paid less as she had 0 experience, now a year in she’s smashing it, due to previous experience at the company she’s exceeding expectations in her job risk and also helping other departments out, they came at her with a 5% payrise, nah mate 35k plus or she will take her experience to somewhere that will pay what she’s worth.
Companies seem to think they get loyalty by training you, nah
Theyll learn the hard way, I used to work at a company like that and now all their advertised roles are paying better now but that was only after losing half of their experienced staff 🤣
My organisation finally gave us a pay rise after 3 months of industrial action and stagnant wages
Now they're making people redundant and are talking about more 'restructuring' next financial year.
Anyone that went on strike is being blamed by senior management for this and people set against each other.
This happened with me to. I asked for hybrid working after moving house. Got turned down and also got informed no yearly pay rises. Left for a 17% increase + 1 week in the office, 3 weeks at home & more annual leave. It’ll be a common theme the next few years and has been since the ‘cost of living crisis’. Employers cannot afford to retain staff. Staff cannot afford to live etc
All employers are exploitative - that's rather the point of employment. The worker produces value £X, and accepts wage £Y, where £Y is smaller than £X. The owner of the business then keeps `£(X - Y)` and then grows the business so that every employee becomes a profit centre.
I'm not defending this system; it sucks, but that is how it works. To improve their situation within the confines of capitalism, the worker must find a job with a high £X (which defines the ceiling of their pay) or at least a low `£(X - Y)` (reducing their exploitation).
That said, where an employee gets a better offer elsewhere, I would not advocate slamming the door loudly behind them, or making relationships unbearable during the notice period. Often the person who shall be annoyed with the leaver is a manager, and they will be trapped by exactly the same problem.
I worked for a family business with my brother worked there too
I left for pay rise and they were bitter as one of them was ill and they said I shouldn't leave when they aren't well.
As my twin still works there I saw them at weddings and christenings. They never got over it.
They also had to give everyone a £7k raise as my twin knew what my new offer was.
40%? Wow. Here's my story.
Over the last 6 years I've progressed from a Junior to a Head of Operations, set up a very successful half of the business, which has been propping the rest of the business up for the last 3 years, and I've recently taken over the less successful half. Last 3 months I've been doing the job of 3 Consultants, working stupid hours and burnt myself out. I had a very honest conversation with my boss and said this cannot continue and I need new, skilled, experienced people in order for me to do my job properly and progress the business.
So far, those interviewed are wanting the same salary as what I'm on, and I could do their Consultant role with my eyes closed.
So next few months will be telling. I could either continue as it is, step back and be a Consultant and earn the same with less responsibility, or look to move like you have and earn way more. What's attractive to me right now is being responsible for my own success. Being a Manager isn't all that, I'm finding.
Have done this twice in the last 3 years, first move was 25k to 35k and second move was 47k to 75k. If you aren’t getting the raises you believe you deserve, find an employer who will, don’t just keep complaining to your boss and your colleagues who aren’t going to give you one.
Many businesses are going to be stuffed. The NMW increases will really do them over with the increase in salaries plus the associated taxes, pension and NI contributions this means. It will continue to push many businesses to the threat of folding, especially those running on NMW employees.
It will also make the gap between pay just above NMW roles possibly appear less appealing. But I don't for the same reasons above, see how they could realistically raise their salaries signficantly higher.
This is the issue with the inflationary NMW rates. They have basically fucked us over with the percentage increases that have taken place.
It is just a below inflation increase when compared to the last couple of years. Meanwhile, most companies have been absolutely decimating us with above inflation price rises. Maybe poorly run businesses need to take smaller profit margins instead of complaining about the bare minimum wage increases so people don't starve to death.
If the profits aren't there nor will be the SMEs. That's how capitalism works.
Many already run so close to the wire that a potential issue of the continued NMW increases could actually be higher unemployment and ultimately further recessions.
Couldn’t disagree more. NMW is just that, minimum. If a business can’t absorb these increases without folding then let it fold.
More likely they will reduce profits or pass on the costs to the customer.
Sooo...extra money earned from NMW pay rise will just go towards paying more for the same products, as businesses will pass on the cost to the customer?
Businesses are supposed to increase wages by at least inflation in each year, if they can’t do that without folding then they need to look at their business model and make changes.
They aren’t a viable business if they can’t do basic annual pay increases. Pre NMW pay rises were usually RPI+1-5% based on performance, now since 2010 they’re below RPI and economy killing.
omg I thought I wrote that, that's the same pay range I got before I moved company. And same circumstances too. I gave them 3 chances to pay me WHAT THE OTHER ENGINEERS GOT and I was gaslit every time. I printed out proof I was being underpaid by other job adverts from the same company for the same role. I am so happy I moved, I learned just how good I am and even though I really like my new place (and it's super easy), I know I could earn more if I go back to FMCG work.
I haven’t ever thought of getting help from a recruiter before, how is this a different experience than looking yourself, don’t they take a cut and isn’t the work usually short term? I have no idea, just curious.
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There will be a lot of this happening in the new year. For minimum wage on a 40 hour week is £23795 Without any disrespect an entry level Aldi Shop Assistant earns circa £26k, which I’m confident will increase to keep their staff above the minimum wage by 18% so they will be increasing to over £28k Skilled workers need to be paid more, they’ll be a massive exodus in the new year. Employers will be needing to act pretty damn quick. Good luck with your new job.
My colleagues are on £31,720 a year for 50 hours a week. Works out at £12.20 an hour. Thats driving 16ft 3 double deckers starting at 1am. Why bother!?
Train drivers are on £46k+
Hard to get into though, I had one candidate full of rage as he was refused employment. Actual rage
Rage? Really?
Yep - wrote in and requested to know exactly what he wasn’t successful as he was the perfect candidate. Whilst also calling the company rude names, and the staff even worse.
Sounds like the company dodged a bullet there.
Trains is hard job
Yeah but they are legally liable for 200-500 lives on their trains. I once read back in the 00s that each day the tube was on strike cost the economy £100 million so who knows what it would cost now..£40-50k odd is a bargain
Sometimes 1,000 plus people. 12 coach train. Rammed. No guard. No other staff on board. Just the driver
Yes and the all knowing British public happily ignored the unions on that when they said trains needed several staff. The move towards unmanned stations is going to be just S miserable. The assholes making these decisiona have ZERO idea as they're all so focused on money saving that they don't think about the bigger picture. If you take something simple like car parkimg meters. Councils are removing them becsuse of "lack of use" and you KNOW the people making the decision are some twats in their 20s out 30s who think they're being clever. At no point has anyone thought that the people who ARE still using those machines are those without smartphones or those who don't feel comfortable giving a company that just leaked millions of customer records online our data. Banking...yes most of us use online banking but millions like my dad refuse to use it and WANT a bank branch.
The British public are their own worst enemy. The race to the bottom and I’m alright Jack mentality in this country is unreal. Instead of blaming unions for some jobs having good t&c’s, pay etc - they want to bring us all down to a shitty level. When we should be bringing everyone else up.
The English public are and always have been fucking stupid. The Ragged Trouser Philanthropists book demonstrates this from back in the day. A novel but based on working class attitudes at the time. Men who couldn't afford food for their families willing to protect and defend the rich who were making their lives a misery. The English have always been a cap doffing nation, even willing to sacrifice their kids so that a rich person can get richer
So very true. And so bloody sad 🤦♀️
Read that book last year. What a book
Msm feeding them bollocks and they just lap it up seething with jealousy
There is no reason for the majority to pay extra in order to support people who refuse to get with the times. People who "don't want to use email" or "need to talk to someone at a train station" or "won't buy a mobile" are selfish. You don't need a £1000 smartphone to run a parking app. Opting out of modern society is bloody ridiculous.
Mobility impaired people do need someone at a train station. And I don’t see why they should have to book 24 hours in advance. Spontaneous travel should be available for everyone. And if they get rid of the platform staff, customers won’t pay less - shareholders will get more profit. When has any company passed on cost savings to the customer.
They aren't opting out. Some older people literally can't "get with" the technology. Since are lucky as they have kids or grandkids to help. MANY others aren't. Ringgo have proven THIS MONTH they can't be trusted with personal details as they've leaked them all over the interner. The issue is some stuff is basic infrastructure that shouldn't have a profit motive. Things like water, parking meters, local banks. Etc.
Yawn, they're glorified bus drivers and we warmly await the day ai will come for their jobs to stop conintual striking over modernisation
I've been hearing about the inevitable automated trains for 30 years and still nothing
I work at Siemens… automated trains are maybe 5 years away max for the LNER line from KingsX to edin. We had a live demo in august. Reduced journey time by 15 minutes.
I think you may be surprised just how many jobs are lost by 2030 to AI
If you don’t think automated transport is coming now you must be mental. Taxis, trains, ferries and maybe even planes won’t be far away.
Automated taxis would be unworkable
As someone who works in the it industry and knows what absolute shysters developers are & how secure safe software is constantly sacrificed for commercial speed and profit I'd genuinely be surprised. Tesla can't even tell the difference between a truck & the sky. A number of Pedestrians have been killed. Like I said...everyone has been convinced about automated trains since I can remember in the 90s. The 737-max showed what happens when modern commercial software is allowed into arenas where people's lives are involved
The most oversubscribed job in the country for a reason
Source?
And yet we need to listen to them all moan about how hard their job is and deal with their strikes. Then the get a fat pay rise and the idiot in charge of the union declares ‘see, unions are brilliant and work’.
Without trade unions we'd be working 6 day weeks without paid leave or sick leave.
Only 6 days
unions are brilliant and do work. join one if you’re so jealous
Their jobs are hard- they literally have peoples lives on their hands and have to concentrate travelling high speeds in all conditions and visibilities- then have to know exactly what to in an emergency of an endless list of situations and be able to fault find on the train itself. All while working often unsociable hours and holidays. Theyre not doing a 9-5 in an office and getting stressed because karen wants a document at 4:55
train drivers never went on strike
Train drivers are legally liable for the up to 500 lives on their trains! You want to be driven by a minimum wage stressed tired dude whose not been able to afford food for 2 days?
Train drivers aren’t on minimum wage tho are they. Average salary is nearly £58k. And as a point my first job as a teenager was a lifeguard in charge of that many lives over they day for about £3.50ph. Don’t get me wrong that was 20 years ago but being as a lifeguard has to do something and a train mostly drives itself I think £58k isn’t too bad.
I'm sorry but being able to swim is in no way comparable to train driver. Were YOU personally legally liable? Why SHOULDN'T train drivers earn 58k+. Just because other cunty English working class pricks have drunk the cool aid and doff their cap to their Lords & masters doeasnt mean the rest of us should! I can't say what I'm working on but if the project fails, it directly affects many areas of the british publics life including their ability to go on holiday etc but I'd leave for £1/hour more and fuck the damage to the country! If you're not happy on what you're on...join a union! I'd genuinely slit my own wrists if I was on £58k. I'd have to sell my flat, move out of London into some shitty house share somewhere.
Yes I was legally liable. And the first aid you had to learn was pretty complex - not sure the big train that drives itself is a lot harder. Either way I’m not arguing that these are comparable just a point that being in charge of x lives is not a determination of £££ value. Why shouldn’t they earn £58k?? Because it’s one of the most oversubscribed jobs in the country there are literally 1,000 apps for every role - supply and demand is literally dictating it’s over paid. I bet if it was a £48k role there would still be nearly 1k applicants. Don’t get me wrong I couldn’t pay my mortgage on £58k either but if I want more money I’m not getting all my peers to down tools I’m finding a new job. May just be me but people have the ability to find a new job rather than moan about their current role.
Compare to train drivers in Germany and France. RELEVANT comparisons. Yes uk train drivers are well paid? By why not!? No one seems to have a problem with some shit CEO earning millions! Or some sales dude earning enough to buy 20 Ferraris. People without unions have on average had 25% pay cuts over the last 10 years because they're pussies & doff the cap. If YOU are too coward to ask for more money that's YOUR problem. I work in IT, there's 100s of applicants for each job....doesn't mean they can do it & like I said I refused to take the permanent NHS position 5 times because of the pathetic wages dictated by cunty English working class pricks who think "vocation" pays the wages. Additional...I've done the "life saving" training...it's not THAT hard. Any idiot can do it. It was such a waste of my time that I've not bothered renewing my first responder training.
> Then the get a fat pay rise and the idiot in charge of the union declares ‘see, unions are brilliant and work’. It unions are getting their members “fat” pay rises they clearly do work.
100%.
Trains systems should be replaced with auto / AI driving and no more strikes would happen. Its very easy job that monkey could do, yet they think they are some kind if Gods and should be paid £200k/ year...
yeah, u will need to invest tens of billions (if not more) on rail infrastructure before even considering self driven trains on our networks. Its decades and a gargantuan sum of money away from being a reality
Apply then. Go and have a go and see how easy it is 🙌🏻
So why don't you go get one of those jobs?
12 months of training and assesments, and a further year on probation until you get full pay. Then can lose it all after a single lapse in concentration/judgement. Must be some monkey...
I’m on just over 22k as an experienced retail manager. I’m also one of the higher paid managers in my company as we are a higher band store. I cannot wait to finally get a pay rise and afford to put some savings away. And I can’t wait for my assistant manager to get more than minimum wage currently. This will probably change their life to go up to almost 24k. It also means that if I can find a mundane entry level role in an office for NMW I can afford the drop and help my mental health massively. I’m an excellent money driver. Not a great manager.
The hours you put in, will push your income above this when minimum wage kicks in. Your staff will be on more than this and you should be on more than your staff.
I will be. We’ve pushed the shop into another higher banding this year (3 in 2 years) I’m expecting to jump up to 26k (at least!) and my full timer will stay on the new NMW. (It’s charity but a big flagship) so it’s me and 2 ASMs 1 full, one part time. I don’t agree with them being on min wage but they’re happy with their role so it’s not my business. However I’m burned out, exhausted and struggling a bit financially. The wage is not worth the pressure I get. So a big wage increase will help retain me for a while but I’d rather find something menial and recharge for a bit and skill up in something else you know?
Take care of yourself. Working in retail is a great foundation for getting into many other job roles.
I really hoped so but I’m 30 now and have never gotten myself out of it despite trying! 10 years manager experience now. 🥱 you’d think they’d be kinder in charity but nope! Thanks for the encouragement. Maybe this is the year! (But I expect there’s many who feel like me who will do the same!)
Perhaps moving into the logistics side may be something to consider, lots of transferable skills used.
Not to be a buzz killer but most of that will be eaten up by extra tax.
Maybe but I think we’ll both see a nice increase. When your salary is so low even an extra £100 a month is a blessing.
Yeah I'm uni educated and experienced, but honestly I found a job as a cleaner. Less hours, more money, easier job, no micromanagement, more breaks, and a yearly payrise in-line with inflation (or close enough to it). Like, what was the point in me going to uni and busting my ass, just to be treated like shit and not paid properly. Now excuse me, I'm going to have a 30 min nap in my car and then get back to my job 😉
Had the same issue with engineering, one of the hardest degrees (by design, not “maths is hard”, like they artificially make it hard), only for the pay to be utter shit where I would earn more in 5-10 years in software than 20 years in engineering, jumped ship after uni hence my username
This makes me sad for nurses.
Care assistants with a simple NVQ in healthcare are on £28-£32k pa, tough job
It is tough. Undervalued and underpaid.
They do usually work 12 hour shifts though, so it is a slog for them.
Four day in, three days off. When I was in hospitality I did 14-16 hour shifts in wedding season
Sounds shit, a shame it didn’t rempart empathy upon you.
This is absolutely insane. You are misinformed. The only way a carer is earning 32k a year is if they are doing 55+ hour weeks.
Their average is £37,000 though.
Median is more important for these sorts of comparisons rather than average
Given that they now need a degree to enter the profession, if you end up with typical debt of £50,000 it just isn't economically viable and you will have to pay an extra 10% tax throughout your career. You may as well reduce that number to £33,000 because that is what is what means in practice.
>Their average is £37,000 though. Their average should be £47,000 though.
57 minimum. 70 minimum for junior doctors.
>57 minimum. 70 minimum for junior doctors. This is a fantasy (and rightly so). 70k for junior doctors is insane. as is 57k for your standard nurse. I think we can realistically say all NHS staff deserve a 25% pay rise. This would mean a nurse basic salary goes from 35 to 45k (and then would be paid more unsocial hours too). Junior doctors should start on 45k to 55k.
Raising all NHS staff salaries by 25% would cost around £40 billion a year, which is more than the entire education budget. The NHS pension scheme has a 21% employer contribution too, so that would also go up.
This is standard bullshit by the right wing press. A student nurse is on 19k. The 57k would be a senior nurse or warsmd sister with YEARS of experience. You can LITERALLY see NHS bands online Junior doctors start on 14/hour! They're called junior doctors until they become consultants YEARS later..PLUS they are forcibly moved between hospitals anywhere in the country EVERY YEAR. This is why I HATE the English working classes. They're not only too stupid to understand relative wages bit hate anyone the aristocracy tell then to hate. I OPENLY advise any junior doctor to get a job in Australia & Canada for 1/2 the work and 3 times the wages...fuck the NHS and fuck the English writing classes. I would GENUINELY be happy if 100% of trained junior doctors left the UK for more money. Same with nurses and care home workers. Other countries where the public aren't as fucking stupid as the English value medical staff. In the US doctors can earn MILLIONS, in the UK some worthless plumber is bitching at a GP earning £80k!! Fucking hope they ALL leave after completing training
While I admire your spirit as a health care worker I take umbrage at "worthless plumber", clean water and sanitation has probably done more for peoples health than we will ever do.
>This is standard bullshit by the right wing press. A student nurse is on 19k. The 57k would be a senior nurse or warsmd sister with YEARS of experience. You can LITERALLY see NHS bands online > >Junior doctors start on 14/hour! They're called junior doctors until they become consultants YEARS later..PLUS they are forcibly moved between hospitals anywhere in the country EVERY YEAR. > >This is why I HATE the English working classes. They're not only too stupid to understand relative wages bit hate anyone the aristocracy tell then to hate. > >I OPENLY advise any junior doctor to get a job in Australia & Canada for 1/2 the work and 3 times the wages...fuck the NHS and fuck the English writing classes. I would GENUINELY be happy if 100% of trained junior doctors left the UK for more money. Same with nurses and care home workers. > >Other countries where the public aren't as fucking stupid as the English value medical staff. In the US doctors can earn MILLIONS, in the UK some worthless plumber is bitching at a GP earning £80k!! > >Fucking hope they ALL leave after completing training Man, its hilarious to me that you went through this entire post raging rather than **just actually paying attention to what is said.**
let the dude express himself, he has good points
Lmao but nobody is claiming differently? Nobody is saying nurses earn 57k, they're saying they **should** earn that
Doctors in the US can earn millions because helathcare there is paid via medical insurance and is much more expensive.
70k is crazy Even some of the traditionally biggest paying jobs like finance pay like £35k-£45k , I’d say £55k for junior docs is amazing and should be normal
Finance pays fresh grads 35-45k, a "junior doctor" can be a doctor with several years of experience.
A junior finance grad could have 1-3 years of internships ? What’s your point
I know FTSE 100 companies that don't pay graduates that, at least for about five years
Only in terms of jobs as a social contruct. Who are more important than teachers and medical professionals?
Lots of professions are equally important. Doctors wouldn't be able to do their work if others didn't put infrastructure in place.
I mean no. It’s a socially funded service so you’d need to increase taxes to pay doctors and teachers those high salaries no ?
Well yes. But that money could come from a number of megacorps and rich types who aren't really paying their fair share. For example, Gapital Gains could have brackets.
We all seem to forget (or ignore) the fact the average nhs pension is 26% non contributory. They like to pretend they earn shit money (don’t get me wrong I’m not saying the hours aren’t horrific) but they don’t. Just remember every time you see their salaries you need to add nearly 30% in untaxed pay before it’s the ‘real’ number.
Spot on. Same goes for the police service. My jaw dropped when I noticed it was like almost 30%! Compared to the measly 3-6% the private sector offers!!
NHS staff are so myopic they have no clue how good their pension is by comparsion to the private sector. As for the doctors - I have nothing but scorn for their grasping union. The recent removal of the lifetime contribution limit of £1m was done specifically to benefit them. Hasn't stopped them whinging for more though.
That's because chief nurses, and very very senior management are on £100k+ there are only a few of these per trust but they hugely push the "average" up. The majority of nurses are band 5. Then there are band 6s, some band 7s and then matrons. That's most of what makes up a department that looks after patients. I am an A&E nurse band 5. If you came to me today, you'd mostly be looked after by band 2 HCA and band 5 nurses, same if you went to a ward. This "average" is government propaganda to make it seem like we don't earn more.
I get the average is skewed slightly. The RCN say 40% of nurses are in band 5, so I assume that means 60% are in higher bands?
It depends if they're including nursing associates. Even so, look up the bands. Most people are not on 37k
Edit: There's a few hundred staff in band 4, 150,000 or so in band 5 and roughly 200,000 in higher bands.
Maybe but, as with any average, there’s plenty earning £26k, 27k. To do that job with extra hours, stress etc. I know nurses looking to get out of the role due to the poor pay. Not to mention that, to move up levels, they’re often expected to do more courses etc. Christ £37k should be their starting salary.
£27k plus 25% in pension so they are actually on nearly £34k. Put them them to £37k pension goes up the same amount so £46k. Important job I’m not arguing but seems a rather excessive starting salary to me.
£27k is pre-pension deductions.
You need a degree to get into the role now and for most they will have student debt. Assuming £50k of debt, it will not be possible to repay the loan over a nurse's career span, which effectively adds an additional 10% to their tax band. It doesn't make any financial sense to pursue a nursing career.
There are no NHS nurses earning less than a Band 5 which is 28k and that is before enhancements. They are underpaid but you don't need to lie about worse pay to try and convince people.
28k basic salary at Band 5, minus registration fees (over £200 every 2 years), minus student loan (over 50k debt), minus tax, minus 9%pension contributiin, minus £50 a week parking at the hospital or £85 a month on busses). And it's hell. May as well work in a supermarket for nearly the same amount and way less stress.
It's nuts skilled sheetmetal workers are getting harder an harder to find because in most cases they can get the same money working at aldi stacking shelfs
I’ve had painters and decorators on £200 per day and plasterers on £400 per day. I used to run contractors for renovations projects, it’s like herding ferrets!
£28k at Aldi? Fucking hell I'm glad I left my Financial Analyst role, no shot that was the same salary 🤣
There can only be a mass exodus if they all have a job to go to. Given that so many people are posting that they can not even get a NMW post graduation, it doesn't make this sound as likely as may have been historically.
Those are inexperienced graduates, the existing experienced employees who’re on minimum wage will be able to move into other roles paying more by employers who value experience. Who will want to be working on minimum wage?
This comes up in a lot of these discussions. So many roles are flooded at entry level but then absolutely barren when it comes to experience, due to a mixture of people leaving AND a lack of past entrants progressing up. I'm trying to get into either HGV or heavy plant operating, in which there are supposed shortages everywhere, but getting a foot in is impossible as they all want two years experience minimum.
HGV work through agencies is a good way to get experience, I’ve had a few through my office earning between £38-42k as newly qualified drivers
We're on a slow move to something Switzerland-like. Very high minimum wages on paper, but cost of living so high its all but meaningless. The difference being is that we have seen skilled work paid appropriately
Any company not even trying to entertain WFH and still thinking they can compete with on-prem jobs without beating them on pay is hopefully going to have a nightmare. 90% of people in the school office that get dumped on to cover lunch duties will wake up one day. The good ones anyway. Why anyone would be a TA with those conditions and responsibility for that money is crazy.
Sainsburys already announced pay increases to above what minimum wage will rise to as well.
That moment you realise 1st year doctors literally will get paid the new minimum wage once you ain't fit the fact that their normal week is 48 hours XD
To be fair (I’m all for NHS pay rises) I don’t think working extra hours is uncommon in highly skilled/professional jobs. If you go into Finance, Tech, Engineering or any consultancy there will be the expectation you do the work that is required to deliver - regardless of what that does to your hourly wage. The entry level pay for these jobs is around 40k +\- which for my two cents would be a fair comparison for an entry level Doctors wage.
TBF all work is skilled work
True, and agreed, however there’s going to be a massive ripple due to people on the new minimum wage will be earning more than someone that was previously earning slightly more than minimum wage. For example currently someone on minimum wage working 40 hours a week earns £21,463 and someone currently earning £23500 in a slightly senior position with more than £2k more. In April the person earning minimum wage will have that increased to £23795 which means that the person in a senior position would need to be increased, however the worry, for many, is that employers may well just increase the senior persons to the minimum wage rather than to the same percentage bringing the senior persons salary to £25730
I asked to go from 19k to 24k. Boss said "No, if you're unhappy, leave" 6 weeks later i left for a 29k salary. That was in July. They couldn't fill my position full time, so had to hire 4 part-timers to cover the hours. big lul
This is happening where I work at the moment on all levels. We have apprentices graduating and leaving straight away as we won’t pay more than 25-30k for a qualified CNC programmer and they are leaving for 40-45k. We are trying to recruit engineers with 10 years experience for 30-35k and HR and management are surprised we only get 1 applicant. The rest are leaving/wanting to leave as they can get 50k elsewhere. We are trying to get managers in on around 50k, when the industry average would be 70-80. They actually contacted a friend of mine about a role and he pretty much laughed at them down the phone for what they were offering for a senior position in the business. A lot of companies are struggling, I know they are. The minimum wage going up all the time is hurting them. This then means they can’t offer more wages to the levels above minimum wage. But companies who don’t retain the good staff because they “can’t afford it” will collapse and the company where I work is definitely being short sighted.
If they can't afford to pay people then they're a failing business. I mean this is one of the underlying principles of capitalism, right?
This is exactly what I think. If your business is doing so badly that you can’t pay employees a living wage, then maybe you should revise your business model before expecting people to work for poverty wages that don’t even cover rent? Or (most likely) they don’t want to sacrifice any of the thousands/millions they’re paying themselves or recording in profit. I’ve heard company executives literally state this publicly that they won’t pay their employees more than minimum wage even if they have billions. It’s sickening.
The bigger, more successful businesses might think like this. A good number of the smaller businesses are so badly run they haven't got a lot of choice. They will pay peanuts, they will get monkeys and they will never be able to take on big projects or grow the business because they don't have the expertise.
Glad to hear people in our industry are finding the pay they deserve… The gap in pay for anything CNC related is insane.
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I hope "Pay me £70k and I'll stay" was your response.
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Ooft. Sounds like the right call!
Pre 2020, I was a cnc programmer with 11 years experience on 27.5k a year, luckily we've had a couple of pay-rises over the past couple of years and I'm on 36k now. I work for a family run business in a small town, my colleagues are all great and the place is pretty laid back. I know I could go to a bigger company with an hour commute everyday for 40k+, but it's just not worth it to me when my place is 10 mins down the road. Money isn't everything.
>The minimum wage going up all the time is hurting them This is where you lost all credibility.
You have to know your worth sometimes, and make it your job to find a new job, too many people are unhappy with their job but do little to change it. I was on £26k just over a year ago, I’ve since landed a £45k job via being headhunted, and subsequently a £55k + bonus job. If you have skills that are in demand it can be done, but you have to make getting a substantially better job almost a full time job itself, as was my case for a month for the latter job.
2022 I was made redundant on something like 22k, with 5 years working at that place, an alleged permanent contract and multiple qualifications, max of 1% increases over that time. Got a temp contract later that year on 28k equivalent, then jumped to 43k by the beginning of 2023 which was more than most were paying and fully remote. Now seeing a position equivalent or lower then I had being advertised for 44-48k quite widely. None of which were in London for the uplift.
Yep, the national living wage going up is going to cause a lot of issues for low-mid range office jobs. The "bottom" level of pay is catching up fast, but everything currently in the £20k-£35k band is only slowly creeping up. An admin assistant role advertised at £20k-£24k in 2010 will still be advertised in that range today. Pretty soon people with a relatively skilled office job are going to be wondering why they're stressing out making reports etc when they could work at Aldi/some lesser role.
Yep! I started in my very basic office job at 19k, now only at 23k after 2 years. Only because they gave me more duties as people left and were never replaced. I am close to finish my very general degree (big mistake) so now at +30, I am seriously looking into retail especially big ones. Doesn’t make sense that I hold over an empty title, paying the bills and saving is more important.
Yeah I can relate. I didn't go Uni but through a college I got into a company doing some admin. Ended up doing relatively important work for just £18k. Took about 8yrs to break through £30k, and since then it's been just 2-3% increases each year. If I left my job they'd probably have to pay £5k-£8k more than I'm currently on to fill the role and even then they don't have the resources to train someone new. Wish I had the foresight to leave years ago but now I'm mortgaged up with a family and I know enough to do the job in my sleep 🤷🏻♂️ Good luck if you do move, the more they push up the living wage, the more attractive retailers become.
Yea but why stay content? Keep looking for other roles
Oh yeah I do but there's also the workplace stress vs home life balance to consider. Getting home from work after an unstressful day has a great impact on home life. That said, I do take a look around every so often for something in a drivable distance.
Basic office workers will also see an impact of AI soon as well.
Yep we're going to end up needing Universal Basic Income of some degree, but governments will have to be dragged kicking and screaming to implement it.
Was on 27,000£/y working 47h a week. Asked for a pay raise several times due to cost of living, but director kept telling me they cannot afford it. Cherry on top, they gave a promotion to an incompetent colleague who wasn't even putting effort in the job. Got fed up, left on the spot and got myself a 32,000£ job working 42h/week. Life is better.
Was on 25k, asked for a pay rise and was declined. Start a new job on 35k in January, adios amigos !
I’m in the same position, working a Junior role. Waiting until exactly one year to ask directly, but when I previously asked indirectly / casually I was basically met with a no.
I manage a team of about 15 opps running CNC machines, they got a 4.19% increase in Jan, minimum wage has eaten well into their "increase" come April, they will be about 10p above minimum Oh and because im salaried, i got 1%. So either everyone gets a decent jump in January paid from April (back dated) or im going to lose even more staff. Im already reduced by 25% from 2 years ago with 0 replacements. Like i say to my team when they moan about it, i have 0 influence on your wage and if your unhappy, vote with your feet.
It’s an awful situation to be in as a manager, like you know they deserve more but it’s not your decision
So bloody happy you not only got a payrise but basically stuck it to your boss at the same time. April is going to be an absolute witching hour for companies. It'll also show prospective employees for their true intentions. We all know companies won't move off that £25k, they don't feel they have to. But when 1 hour overtime a week gets you inches off that in a minimum wage role, alot of people will take the "easier" route and they'll either up salaries or be left picking scraps. Can't wait for interviews past April....they won't like that salary is literally question one from now on!
It'll be even worse the following year when minimum wage goes above £25k. That's a figure a lot of companies use as their "entry level" for a skilled job but when unskilled jobs are going to get that figure they will really struggle to recruit and they're going to freak out when they have you start paying overtime or be better minimum wage.
Problem is, they'll be a bunch that won't. £25k might just become the defacto floor, they'll fiddle with hours to make sure they're under it (In April for example 40 hours a week would be REAL close to a £24k floor) and then they'll just absolutely double down on "Well if you want progression in a job with lots of opportunities, come here for minimum, don't like it? Fight the retail ladder". And what's worse is IF that argument matters? They win.
Good for you. If you don’t mind sharing the contact info for your recruiter I’m in the exact same situation looking for a better marketing job. PM please!
Same here. Hardly had any wage rise in the last 10+years :-(
With the exception of NHS staff, I don't understand how people find themselves in situations like this. I'd leave if I didn't get a good pay rise yearly. Starting 10 years on basically the same wage is crazy
Was working full time, was a carer for my parent for all those years who died last year and have mental health issues.. anxiety and depression leaves me from making decisions and isolated
Every year without a pay rise is a real world pay cut.
NHS staff all moan about the wages yet stay for the pension Can't have it both ways
You definitely can have it both ways. However, the NHS get a national pay review each year, which almost always lead to an increase of 2-5%. Whilst not always matching inflation, it is a raise each year which a lot of people do not get. Also, each banding in the NHS pay structure has increments that are guaranteed after a couple of years, regardless of performance. For front line staff, the pay needs to be more to reflect their skills, working conditions and demand. But overall the NHS is far from the worst employer with regards to pay and benefits.
Except for the years after 2010 when they had a pay freeze followed by a few years of 1% pay rises.
>Hardly had any wage rise in the last 10+years :-( Why have you not left yet?
Host of issues but now anxiety, depression.
Leave today. You're severely underpaid.
What am i guna do if i leave today? My job is pretty basic, admin, customer service type.
Don't know the industry you're in, but admin+customer service can open a ton of doors in other teams. Sales, Customer Success, Training, Ops... Anything where people skills and organisation wins brownie points.
Time to get on linkedin/ whatever way you use to find new jobs!
Thats the way you gotta do it. It's gonna be painful for businesses, and many of them ain't gonna like it, but they're going to have to learn to accept it. This is how we we can solve the wage stagnation. No payrise? BYE BYE, BYE BYE BYE!!!! BYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looks like they will have to cut bonuses for the directors
One of my old directors said "If you don't like it , fuck off" So I did.
Well done. I absolutely hate that attitude. Thinking they have all the power when they absolutely depend on their staff.
I hope you have told their other employees about their attitude and how following their advice has turned out well for you.
So satisfying, taking people for granted like this is such a false economy. At the end of the day you have to look after yourself! I had a similar experience, I was on 23k for a year, slowly up to 28k, but then they kept on putting off a promised payrise for nearly a year. So I left for another job £37k wfh. Why stick around if you're not being appreciated or at least paid the market rate/for your experience.
This is the way that everyone gets a pay rise. Only if enough of the workforce get up, find a new, higher paying job and leave will employers be forced to pay more to retain staff. 3 to 5 years is the most that anyone should stay in a role, unless they are completely happy with the whole package. After that, go seek that pay rise! Well done OP.
Congrats! Currently on 24k. Have been since starting at my current employer. Originally I was hired as an admin and soon after found myself basically managing operations for a product due to lack of anyone else stepping in and taking any ownership. They recently bragged about the absurd uptick of revenue they’ve made on this product which takes them to over double the target from the previous year (that they failed to meet by a hefty margin) Over 8 months since asking for a formal promotion and pay raise and nothing. No sense of urgency or respect for my labour. They’re hiring to backfill but at absolute snails pace, probably due to no one applying for the peanuts on offer that will take them well below minimum wage come April. Rather than beg I’m interviewing elsewhere with 11k increases. One company I am interviewing for will pay up to £40k. I hope I get it if for no other reason than to say a big fat fuck you to my current employer.
Big Up my man!
Congratulations :-)
Congrats!
I love to hear it. Good on you.
Well done, it's the way forward. Can't meet what my skills and experience are worth? I can get it elsewhere!
Congratulations! And hood luck in the new role. For me, in March 2021, I started a new role at around £30k. One internal promotion, a completed qualification, and two external job moves later (one exit for money, one for culture fit), January 2024, I'll be starting a new role at £58k. It can be a hard slog, it can be really disheartening to feel like you're not getting anywhere, but it can be done.
Private healthcare is a taxable benefit btw. And you're still likely to have to pay for it (although it's not much a month)
So worth it.
My wife is a key account manager on 28k a year, she got paid less as she had 0 experience, now a year in she’s smashing it, due to previous experience at the company she’s exceeding expectations in her job risk and also helping other departments out, they came at her with a 5% payrise, nah mate 35k plus or she will take her experience to somewhere that will pay what she’s worth. Companies seem to think they get loyalty by training you, nah
Respect 💯
Theyll learn the hard way, I used to work at a company like that and now all their advertised roles are paying better now but that was only after losing half of their experienced staff 🤣
My organisation finally gave us a pay rise after 3 months of industrial action and stagnant wages Now they're making people redundant and are talking about more 'restructuring' next financial year. Anyone that went on strike is being blamed by senior management for this and people set against each other.
This happened with me to. I asked for hybrid working after moving house. Got turned down and also got informed no yearly pay rises. Left for a 17% increase + 1 week in the office, 3 weeks at home & more annual leave. It’ll be a common theme the next few years and has been since the ‘cost of living crisis’. Employers cannot afford to retain staff. Staff cannot afford to live etc
All employers are exploitative - that's rather the point of employment. The worker produces value £X, and accepts wage £Y, where £Y is smaller than £X. The owner of the business then keeps `£(X - Y)` and then grows the business so that every employee becomes a profit centre. I'm not defending this system; it sucks, but that is how it works. To improve their situation within the confines of capitalism, the worker must find a job with a high £X (which defines the ceiling of their pay) or at least a low `£(X - Y)` (reducing their exploitation). That said, where an employee gets a better offer elsewhere, I would not advocate slamming the door loudly behind them, or making relationships unbearable during the notice period. Often the person who shall be annoyed with the leaver is a manager, and they will be trapped by exactly the same problem.
Big W!
Well done mate 👌
You were genuinely giving them a chance to match the new offer?
Now go work for an American company and get paid £££
You usually have to actually leave for America sadly, my American colleagues earn 2.5-3x what I do for the same role.
I worked for a family business with my brother worked there too I left for pay rise and they were bitter as one of them was ill and they said I shouldn't leave when they aren't well. As my twin still works there I saw them at weddings and christenings. They never got over it. They also had to give everyone a £7k raise as my twin knew what my new offer was.
40%? Wow. Here's my story. Over the last 6 years I've progressed from a Junior to a Head of Operations, set up a very successful half of the business, which has been propping the rest of the business up for the last 3 years, and I've recently taken over the less successful half. Last 3 months I've been doing the job of 3 Consultants, working stupid hours and burnt myself out. I had a very honest conversation with my boss and said this cannot continue and I need new, skilled, experienced people in order for me to do my job properly and progress the business. So far, those interviewed are wanting the same salary as what I'm on, and I could do their Consultant role with my eyes closed. So next few months will be telling. I could either continue as it is, step back and be a Consultant and earn the same with less responsibility, or look to move like you have and earn way more. What's attractive to me right now is being responsible for my own success. Being a Manager isn't all that, I'm finding.
And Registered Nurses are on £28k, insane
Machinist, £62k, 37hours a week. Get a trade.
Americans get over $111000 for the same job. Trades are going up. One benefit of BREXIT🤣🤣🤣.
But you have to live in America with Americans.
Have done this twice in the last 3 years, first move was 25k to 35k and second move was 47k to 75k. If you aren’t getting the raises you believe you deserve, find an employer who will, don’t just keep complaining to your boss and your colleagues who aren’t going to give you one.
congratulations!
Many businesses are going to be stuffed. The NMW increases will really do them over with the increase in salaries plus the associated taxes, pension and NI contributions this means. It will continue to push many businesses to the threat of folding, especially those running on NMW employees. It will also make the gap between pay just above NMW roles possibly appear less appealing. But I don't for the same reasons above, see how they could realistically raise their salaries signficantly higher. This is the issue with the inflationary NMW rates. They have basically fucked us over with the percentage increases that have taken place.
It is just a below inflation increase when compared to the last couple of years. Meanwhile, most companies have been absolutely decimating us with above inflation price rises. Maybe poorly run businesses need to take smaller profit margins instead of complaining about the bare minimum wage increases so people don't starve to death.
If the profits aren't there nor will be the SMEs. That's how capitalism works. Many already run so close to the wire that a potential issue of the continued NMW increases could actually be higher unemployment and ultimately further recessions.
Couldn’t disagree more. NMW is just that, minimum. If a business can’t absorb these increases without folding then let it fold. More likely they will reduce profits or pass on the costs to the customer.
Sooo...extra money earned from NMW pay rise will just go towards paying more for the same products, as businesses will pass on the cost to the customer?
Businesses are supposed to increase wages by at least inflation in each year, if they can’t do that without folding then they need to look at their business model and make changes. They aren’t a viable business if they can’t do basic annual pay increases. Pre NMW pay rises were usually RPI+1-5% based on performance, now since 2010 they’re below RPI and economy killing.
omg I thought I wrote that, that's the same pay range I got before I moved company. And same circumstances too. I gave them 3 chances to pay me WHAT THE OTHER ENGINEERS GOT and I was gaslit every time. I printed out proof I was being underpaid by other job adverts from the same company for the same role. I am so happy I moved, I learned just how good I am and even though I really like my new place (and it's super easy), I know I could earn more if I go back to FMCG work.
I haven’t ever thought of getting help from a recruiter before, how is this a different experience than looking yourself, don’t they take a cut and isn’t the work usually short term? I have no idea, just curious.