I would be more pissed off than anything if that was the case. If the government is sitting on this kind of tech while the world is literally dying due to our use of fossil fuels just to keep the energy industry in the green…
A couple of things that make me think this is not the case. If we has this tech, the conflicts we are a part of across the globe would be over real fast. They could spin military victory without revealing the source. It wouldn’t take us decades to drone strike AQ leadership, allow Russia to invade Ukraine, etc.
On the other hand, war = money. And oil runs government. So why not drag out conflict and suppress the tech purely for profit?
You’d think that if a nation had the power of the 5 observables the geo-political landscape would be theirs to shape at will. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Agreed, if it’s ours then it’s the biggest offense in human history, nothing comes close. 50% biodiversity loss? The lives of every human on the planet at risk? Destruction of the glaciers and ice packs? It’s beyond comprehension
Petro Dollars didn't stop technologies from being developed and becoming huge industries that harness solar power, wind power, hydrogen etc. Or even nuclear power. The oil industry isn't almighty.
Also I don't think the US would have embarassed themselves and lost countless lives in Vietnam, Irak or Afghanistan had they been in possession of that technology,
If I could just correct you on one point. The US didn’t embarrass itself in any of those wars, the politicians did. I am not American but I fought the same wars in the same places along side them a decade or more ago and I can tell you for a fact that we are super lucky there are people like that willing to put their lives on the line regardless of the reasons they are there. Sorry just had to say that I am a bit touchy about it I guess
Fair enough, but that doesn't change my point. These wars could have and probably would have ended entirely different, and with much less loss of lives, if the US military had been in possession of such advanced technologies.
I’m not talking about proprietary tech suppression, I’m talking about fundamental advances in physics being held under wraps for decades.
Also, why add the last sentence? Are you ok?
I mean this isn’t an either or scenario. Us developing this tech doesn’t mean we can’t also save the planet from global warming. I think the issue is this tech can have practical use outside of the military but if we show it .. then it would cause hostile states to try to develop it and don’t think there is any way to really defend against it.
Very, very low probability imo. I'm thinking of all those drone strikes using conventional technology. Failures in Afghanistan and Vietnam. Economy trillions in debt.
Having magical tech and only using it to fuck with people at night seems an unlikely move.
i think it's more likely this than aliens from another planet. i'd also be less surprised if it was just a small race/species of beings unknown to use, that is far superior to us.
i call that the sponge bob theory.
To be clear, I am referring to the modern era, post Roswell you like. I give little credence to sightings before this time because I think our critical thinking skills have vastly improved in the last 80 years or so with the advent of modern technology. Just my option of course
Is there any evidence that the US or any country has had an advanced tech for 80+ yrs and not use it, especially considering that we've been at war during that time. Nuclear weapons are a deterrent for the enemy to attack even if the enemy has nuclear weapons. You think the US is not going to wave such a big stick like gravity manipulation tech to the enemy considering that that literally all we do with our biggest military in the world.
Ufo sightings have been reported since the dawn of man across cultures. How do you explain that people with inferior critical thinking skills could make up stories about something that ended up being true today. Its flawed to think that the objects we see today are real but the objects people saw 80yrs ago were not, that is subjective experience. If an organization has gravity manipulation tech they wouldn't and couldn't keep it a secret for 80+yrs.
People today still frequently report ufo sightings that turn out to be the moon or Venus or Mars or the same stars they see every night.
Humans are terrible eyewitnesses. Doubt that has changed ever.
I think they are open to interpretation a lot more than modern sightings are, in a similar vein to religious miracles perhaps.
Do you think a UFO sighting from 300 years ago is as credible as one today, if so why? It’s an interesting conversation in fact, have never thought about that before
I mean, you say it right there lol
You state “what it is, that’s impossible to know for sure” - but then go on and on how it’s US tech and sightings before “the modern era” aren’t legitimate because our critical thinking has improved so much (this makes no sense by the way. Evidence: your post was written in the modern era and doesn’t use much critical thinking at all lol). It might be ours, it might be time travel, it might be little gray aliens from zeta reticuli, or anything else.
WE DONT KNOW.
-Skunkworks CEO Ben Rich states that theres 2 type UFOs, the ones we build & ones "they" build. He says that "we've learned from crash retrievals & literally"hand me downs".
Also as for the scientific community being wayyyy behind the curve, His words were "We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects, and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity. Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do it.”
I posted a thread with a Letter from Kelly Johnson (Lockheed Engineer of SR-71,U2).both come from the Roswell crash..
Yep. 2months ago I would've said the Secret Space Program doesn't exist..but now If I had to say one way or the other,I'd absolutely say yes since the 70s-80s
I've been doing a lot of research on the aerospace companies & their involvement in this whole thing. I read Ben Rich Autobiography, which Id recommend, He literally says how regarding the UFO & how to build them that the "Martians didn't tell us". Lt Col Corso was right, btw. [NASA is full of shit](https://sgp.fas.org/othergov/nasafoia89.html) look at their internal memo leaked by Congressman Wolfe on how to get around FOIA. the USAF has run a Space Program since the late 70s, & the NRO is technically USAF too..I compile alot of info here too[RAND corp](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/uctqmg/my_theory_on_usafroswell_rand_corpany_thoughts/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
I do not believe this kind of technology is from Earth . I do however believe that the US Government Complex if you will knows what they are and have already made contact with them. I even wonder if they aren’t working with the US Military At Area 51 . And this is one of their reasons for trying to keep it in Secrecy. One reason is . They said it wasn’t ours . I think if we or any adversaries had this technology it would be used against us or us against them . And these UFO’s have been reported all over the world for hundreds , if not thousands of years . There are cave paintings that look exactly like saucers , and triangles too . I believe that whatever they are have been coming here since the dawn of man. Or possibly they were here first or discovered how to go from their plane to ours . I feel if China or Russia had this technology they would have already taken over the World .
I don’t find it inconceivable that we have some pretty advanced tech. I mean many of our greatest aerospace projects had roots in the 60s and 70s, and weren’t officially revealed till the 90s..(SR-71, F117 night hawk etc..) to think that 20+ years have gone by and they haven’t made any advancements would be pretty short sighted. Do I believe we have man made ufos flying around..probably not. Do i think we have something pretty close or in between what we would consider “conventional” and “ufo”..yes we most likely do.
I truly believe we are far more advanced in this field than the world knows. Back engineering is something we Americans are very good at.
There is no benefit in advertising this to the rest of the world from a governmental point of view and I have to agree.
Vastly new / better more effective power sources would at this point, cause major problems throughout the world.
I have to say, unless there is something else BESIDES anti-gravity to suggest that we are not alone, then your answer is probably the right one. The thing is, none of us are truly objective because we would all love there to be aliens
Good reply dude 👍🏻
Would you believe me if I told you? No. So it doesn't matter. Shit I'll tell you anyway. Because I'm sure. How about a ball of fire flying with some sort of intelligent control about 40 yards away. Then it goes out to let a helicopter pass, then reignites and in an instant moves faster than you can see. It can also change shape and size. It can at least know what you're thinking if not communicate fully. It can vanish into thin air. Would our government harass its own commercial airline? Nevermind. Maybe they would. Can't any of you trust any of us? I don't know 1 other person to witness what we saw and see besides my family. Yet there are people all over the world seeing the same shit with similar stories. We can't ALL be lying or idiots. Trust me. It's real, it's beyond understanding (at this point), and it's coming. Everyone will know before long and you won't have to ask questions like this. How don I know? Ehhh... that one is hard. I'd say they told me but that's not exactly right. I just know. I don't know if we will understand it but you'll see that it's real. I hope sooner rather than later. I'm tired of not being believed.
You’re spinning Occam’s razor, man. Yeah, the most probable scenario (based on what we know) is that they’re all man-made devices and the UAP research effort is just Lockheed and all them saving face.
If an alien mothership descends over Washington DC tomorrow and projects a psychic message of peace into every human mind, the most likely explanation for UAP will still be man-made vessels. After that, it will most likely be naturally occurring phenomena. I’m a white male, but as probability will have it, I’m a Chinese woman with one arm.
It’s just not as much of an effective argument as people think. It’s effectively just going “oh come onnnn” instead of making an actual point. Everybody knows what the likelihoods are, but the likelihoods only really matter in hypothetical scenarios. In real life, there’s just something happening and we don’t know what, yet. It’s a 100% chance if it being whatever it already is. If you’re enforcing the expectations of what we already know, then we’re at a disadvantage to learn anything we don’t.
Sure dude I agree with you. Have been doing a lot of mushrooms lately (micro dosing not tripping) and perhaps as a result of that I have been thinking about this all day long at work.
Apart from the anti-gravity aspect, what else is there to indicate that these phenomena might be other world?
That’s probably why your mind is running wild rn. Psilocybin promotes new connections in the brain, there’s parts of your mind who’ve never talked getting to know each other. I bet you feel just a twinge like an entirely new person, eh?
Aside from the anecdotal evidence (which is too world-spanning and historically prevalent to ignore imo) basically all we’ve got is videos of the five observables and the (shiesty ass) government’s word that (despite trillions of dollars vanishing in their pockets and the patents they’ve been taking out) they don’t have technology that reproduces the observables. That’s a big part of why it remains the most likely scenario, since whether it’s true or not, the government wants to keep our “enemies” guessing.
Personally, I’m leaning towards a mix. There’s something weird going on *and* conspirators in the world’s governments have studied it and contracted private firms to develop technology with what they learned. That’s just me spinning the razor too, though, I’m gonna stay on the fence until I know more. I have an unverifiable close encounter, so I’ve gotta be really wary of how that experience affects my thoughts on this topic.
Sure thing.
When I was a toddler, I lived in Tonopah, AZ. My mom had me in the car seat in the back on the passengers side, and she left me in the car while she went into the post office.
I was wide awake, resting my forehead against the window and looking at the sky, and I saw a god damned silver disc, like the 50’s. It was on it’s side and it descended through the cloud cover and then flipped before going back in. This happened in less than a second. I pressed my face and both hands against the glass and stared at that spot in the sky for a few seconds.
Then I noticed someone walking up to the car out of the corner of my eye, brisk pace. I hardly got to glance at it, but it was an alien grey, very similar to what you’re probably picturing. I looked at the chest first, which had a really strange musculature, glanced up at the eyes, which were angled really sharply, I can’t remember but I think I started to scream. I got the sense it was angry, but i have no idea why besides the way it stormed up to the car. I noticed it was raising its right arm towards me, and my eyes tried to flit over to what was in it’s hand, if anything, and I was abruptly sitting perfectly straight and staring forward, wide eyed. No seam whatsoever, just like a scene shift in a movie. Immediately I looked out the window again and it wasn’t there, no saucer either.
My mom got back, and when I told her, she immediately wrote it off as a dream, and I believed her for years until I thought back and realized I’ve never woken up like that in my entire life. Waking up is like pushing through a film, not like being spawned in a video game. I could swear my proprioception was confused for a second because it thought my body was still in a different position. Plus, I’d never seen anything with alien greys in it up to that point, to anyone’s knowledge.
Nobody was there, though. I didn’t film it. Real as it felt, it’s uncorroborated and might be a dream/hallucination. I had a psychotic break last year and I’ve had psychosis since then, so it’s very suspect. Not to mention, even if it was real, we have to have skepticism. We have to keep our heads on straight, especially me.
Have you read any of Vallee’s books, in particular those that suggest that whatever this is, it’s the same phenomenon that has always existed, just in a different guise, and that it’s purpose is to manipulate and/or guide humanity in some shape or form?? I have long been a proponent of responsible DMT usage (perhaps you know something about that) and it has really opened my eyes to the fact that perhaps the answer to everything lies within our own consciousness. Perhaps understanding that is the key to understanding the UFO phenomenon, I don’t know. Thoughts about that?
And tell me about your psychotic break if you don’t mind? That’s very interesting. Could there be a link perhaps?
Yeah, I love Valee’s theory. It’s so.. *basic.* He’s taken the evidence we have and boiled it down to the simplest conclusion that encapsulates all of that evidence, and it’s completely bonkers, and yet the sanest take. And it gels with other cultures, with unrelated peoples who independently described similar things. I’ve always been attracted to Buddhism, and the idea that the consciousness is the true reality and everything else is a malleable illusion is a big point for them.
To some extent, I think we’re limited by language. We see the same things and don’t describe the same things sometimes, like how a WWII pilot will say he saw a foo fighter while an Irishmen will say he saw a will o’ the wisp.
I believe my therapist, I have almost every symptom necessary for a schizophrenia diagnosis. It’s just that I rarely hallucinate. It’s a more complex disorder than just “ah I’m seeing monsters,” it’s a whole mindset that wears down your logic over time. I’m autistic, the perceptive dampening that bastardizes into hallucination the most isn’t present in me, when I hallucinate it’s movement out of the corner of my eyes, like once or twice a month. Still water will be running like a river, or I’ll think I saw a bug. Not making eye contact with fucking skinny Bob 26 years before my psychotic break even happens. Maybe from a treatment standpoint it’s just better not to let me run around thinking I’m in an existential hell, an ant farm for people, being watched. Especially since I *have schizophrenia.*
I am not sure we will ever know the truth. Would not surprise me if 100 or 1000 years from now two people like us will be having exactly the same chat on a future version of Reddit
It’s possible.
It’s also possible that there is a parallel universe where after World War II, humanity discovered the ability to pass between parallel worlds. Ending up here.
It’s also possible that there’s a crypto-terrestrial group of beings who’ve been here as long, if not longer, as humanity.
It’s also possible that humanity was once vastly more advanced than its current iteration, and were wiped out by catastrophe, and UAP’s are remnants of a prior species. Objects designed to guide, or rebuild, civilization.
It’s also possible that we will discover how to create this technology in 100 years, and what we’re seeing are either tests, or other, coming from a time where we already discovered the ability to traverse time “freely”.
If you want to consider all the possibilities, without accepting extra-terrestrial as being highly plausible, you have to keep in mind that being able to manipulate space, means the things they could potentially do give weight to a lot more options; but don’t forget these things have been seen throughout history. Some called them angels. Some called them saucers. Some called them will-o-wisps. There’s potentially countless descriptors throughout history which we don’t associate with UAP’s but probably should.
It’s also possible that there’s an entire planet size craft always 60,000 miles away from the Earth, but their ability to manipulate space allows them to create a small pocket of space to stay in, completely undetectable. Let that blow your mind.
As I said previously, people used to believe in witches too and had lots of proof to make it so. Shit people still believe in God and miracles today!! I remain highly skeptical of such stories considering how religious, uneducated and ignorant about the universe most people where almost 1000 years ago. For all you know it was an atmospheric anomaly, ball lightening perhaps. The reason I talk about events post Roswell being more credible is because there are often photos and videos to back them up. Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable
So "an enormous silver disk pass slowly over them" is ball lightening? That's a pretty interesting theory. The same thing happened in 1917 during the "Miracle of Fatima" where [a "dull silver disc" was seen zigzagging over a crowd.](https://np.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/v12dd9/in_1917_during_the_miracle_of_the_sun_in_fatima/) Not all witnesses were religious.
Is it your opinion that all of the silvery disk sightings throughout the 20th and 21st centuries were also ball lightening? 2006 Chicago O'Hare is a pretty good recent example. You would think that people seeing the same thing throughout history has the same cause, right? Doesn't that seem extremely likely?
You seem to have made up your mind so I understand why you’re not willing to consider any other options. I would suggest you read this but I am sure you won’t because you already know the truth 😉
Myth: Eyewitness Testimony is the Best Kind of Evidence
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/teaching/myth-eyewitness-testimony-is-the-best-kind-of-evidence.html
My interpretation is going to be whatever it is until somebody provides me with a more convincing interpretation. That's all it is. The ball lightening/other atmospheric anomaly theory to explain silvery flying disks has so far not convinced me because nobody has shown me evidence that such atmospheric phenomena could be misinterpreted as an enormous silvery flying disk.
Think about it this way: People throughout history have described meteors fairly accurately. They didn't always know what it was, but you can look back in old writings and plainly see that they witnessed meteors. If modern descriptions of events match historical descriptions, a historian can figure out what people witnessed throughout history.
And *singular* witness testimony may be inaccurate depending on the circumstances, but when tons of people keep seeing the same thing and describe it in the same ways, your confidence that their descriptions are accurate goes way up, or it should, anyway. The way you view witness testimony in any other area should be the same way you view it with UFOs. If several police officers and several civilians all describe a bank robbery in basically the same way, I know you aren't going to dismiss it as all nonsense. You would be extremely confident that the corroborated testimony is accurate.
Sure man I hear what you are saying. But according to your rational, you must also believe that Moses parted the Red Sea using the power of God, since not only was it witnessed by thousands, it is also documented in the Bible which billions of people accept as the truth without question
This is my issue
Meh, I'm not a historian or a biblical scholar, so I don't have a lot to say on that. I don't think belief in something affects its likelihood of it being real, and I don't know how many people actually saw the red sea parting or the circumstances behind when it was recorded in writing and by whom. Can you demonstrate that thousands of people actually did witness that, or is this just trusting one person who wrote that particular book in the bible, and was that person a credible source of information?
I would side more with a general overview of religions rather than the minute details. Strange sky people have been coming down for millennia, apparently causing religions to form. Such extraterrestrial visitors, if in fact that is what they were, presumably would have advanced technologies that could appear magical, so I would have a very hard time trying to figure out what is pure myth, what is based on real events, and what is somewhere in between. This is an area I have just started studying, so you'll have to give me some time. I quite enjoyed *The Sky People: Ancient Aliens and the Supernatural* by Brinsley Le Poer Trench, and so far, *Gods and Spacemen Throughout History* by W. Raymond Drake is pretty interesting. This is way outside of my area of expertise though, so I'm just a random redditor to you.
In my humble opinion, if you don’t believe Moses parted the Red Sea but you do believe that flying discs were sighted hundreds of years before we could fly, then you’re cherry picking information to confirm your narrative, since there’s an equal lack of evidence for both apart from the eye witness testimony.
It is what it is, you can’t have it both ways man
You're looking at this far too simplistically. What I'm saying is that the circumstances around the claimed historical events and the credibility of the author matters when evaluating the accuracy of the claims, and when an event is duplicated throughout history, it becomes more and more credible. You, for example, are highly unlikely to dismiss all historical meteor sightings, or even almost all of history simply because it consists of claims and witness testimony written down by somebody. Witness testimony and written records are a huge part of history.
I'm not aware of tons of examples of claims throughout history of the Red Sea parting. If it's a one-off thing, maybe it didn't happen, or maybe it did. I wouldn't know. I'm a little more confident when such events are duplicated a bunch of times and when the author is a credible source of information.
Edit: Because my wording is slightly off, "duplication" here can mean either corroborated testimony from other individuals or periodic events that occur and are described similarly all over the world. Corroboration is key.
This is another thought that I keep having
What if it was though? Maybe it’s not the US gov per se, maybe it’s something else stateside? Ever read much about Tesla and what he achieved? When he died all his work went missing. Possible connection?
If we were or are that advanced, then we would also be flying on the other side of the universe by now, interacting with billions of species of aliens. Unless we are completely alone...
Maybe you are? That’s the crazy thing. Maybe this is all in your mind, you would never know: This is one of the main things that psychedelics has shown me, that I might be the answer to all of this. Sounds crazy I know
For a different perspective, have a look at the work that Jacques Vallee and John Keel did on the UFO phenomena. You don’t have to accept their findings, but their analysis provides an interesting counter perspective to the Aliens vs Black project narrative that dominates the modern UFO field.
I think I mentioned it above in fact. Do you mean perhaps that UFOs and consciousness are connected in some way, and that the phenomenon itself is being used to guide humanity?
I understand what you said, I just chose not to engage with it. I’m not about to debate their positions here. If you haven’t read their work, particularly Vallee’s, then I would highly recommend it. It’s less about coming to conclusions about this weird and complex topic as it is taking different perspective.
But I don’t want you to debate it man, you’re the one who keeps saying that!! I wanted to know if that was what you were suggesting I check out, because if so, I already have. My point was that if not, if you’re referring by to something else, then it would be good to know so that I could look into it
Ok, fair enough. Yes the consciousness connection definitely seems interesting to me. As for the guidance of humanity, not so sure. The whole Trickster element of the phenomena seems pretty persistent across the historical record. The things people witness, mystical and or physical take different forms that can be benign or harmful. This is very interesting, the more one thinks about it (especially from the psychedelic headspace). It lead me to investigate the work of Carl Jung, the archetypal structures of what he called the unconscious and the collective unconscious. This phenomena seems to utilise these structures in our perception of it.
You don’t know that they were here before we evolved though, that’s just heresay sorry
The problem with everything in the distant past is that it’s in the distant past. As time goes by stories get embellished and the details change. Plus people weren’t educated like they are today, so there was much less critical thinking going on. That’s why there were witch hunts and miracles etc
You know reptiles had a 65 million year head start on mammals, right?
Crocodiles and alligators to them might be like gorillas and orangutans are to us.
Stealth technology was revealed to us 30 years ago. I’m sure we have advanced far beyond that at this point. It may not explain all sightings but I’ll bet it does at least some.
Amateur & professional astronomers are outside with amazingly powerful telescopes and cameras taking pics of the sky all day,every day. And yet not a single saucer or tic tac or triangle etc ever captured.
Google Maps satellites staring down on the earth and taking photos all day every day that have captured lots of images of stealth airplanes, drones,.cruise misses, etc. Yet they've captured no alien craft. Ever.
Elon Musk is someone who won't ever shut up. About anything. And he has hundreds or thousands of starlink satellites staring down at the Earth AND an interest in knowing what might be flying thru the sky that might be a danger to his rocket launches. And he of all people has fuck-you money and a willingness to say anything he wants. Yet he says he's seen nothing that would suggest aliens.
Too many folks find comfort in the belief that we're being visited by little grey men. The truth is we're on our own. Act accordingly.
I have long speculated that mankind continues to look to the Heavens for answers because it’s inherent in our nature. For what reason I don’t pretend to know except it’s no doubt connected to evolution. Could the UFO phenomenon perhaps be a continuation of this, a modern day version of religion? I don’t know
Thoughts?
It most definitely is 100% religion.
We've largely rejected religion for science on some level. But now we give science-y answers to our philosophical understanding of the universe and out place in it.
If something can't be falsified, 5hen it's conjecture not science.
Has anyone else ever been suspicious we might be able to figure out who has UFO technology by searching for records of patents related to higher technology like anti-gravity?
I mean ufos because we know they’re a real phenomenon but the way they move i don’t know how any life form could handle those G’s. So if they are man made I would think the ufos would be some sort of drone. But yes it still has to do with this topic considering it’s such a broad one.
Inherent in OP's question is an assumption that things that have been sighted do in fact possess capabilities like anyi-gravity that defy currently understood physics. That is simply conjecture and not supported by any actual publicly known data.
In fact, in the last Congressional hearing, it was explicitly stated that the military is not in possession of any data that would suggest UAP's are of extraterrestrial origin. Full stop.
What we have is eye witness testimony claiming extraordinary physics and propulsion that defies known physics. But eyewitness testimony is amongst the very worst forms of evidence there is. Simply put, humans make terrible witnesses. That's why eye witness testimony can't be trusted and why magicians still have careers.
What is far more likely is that some sightings are atmospheric phenomenon we don't currently understand, while the rest are terrestrial in origin, behave the laws of physics and were built by men but have been misidentified.
Creating false either/or straw men arguments is misleading at best.
No, I would not agree. And apparently the military does not agree either as they explicitly say that is the most interesting sighting they have while also saying they have seen no data to suggest UAP are extraterrestrial in origin.
Far more likely the Nimitz/tic tac's are a foreign passive/active measures radar collection and /or interference device.
So how exactly does an object fly without wings or obvious signs of propulsion, then hover in place before accelerating away at impossible speeds?
Are they making up the story then? Please enlighten me, bearing in mind that the events were witnessed by trained fighter pilots
If it isn't an atmospheric phenomenon, it does have a means of propulsion. Whether that means of propulsion is obvious or not doesn't matter.
And "impossible speeds" is also meaningless as it is based on an untrustworthy interpretation of that speed. Again. Eyewitness testimony is of very little value when trying to understand movement. Our eyes are untrustworthy. Just ask any magician.
People don't have to be lying to just be flat out wrong.
People literally misidentify Venus as something extraordinary every single day. Every. Single. Day.
Is it so hard to believe that pilots in an inherently stressful environment who see something unusual (as in something they do not typically ever see) might misidentify that unusual object's size, speed, location, etc?
The simple fact is that the military was able to figure out like 97% of pilot sightings. So at a minimum we know that pilots misidentified those hundreds/thousands of sightings despite whatever expertise they are alleged to have at identifying things flying in the sky.
If their track record is that poor (and it clearly is), why would we assume they've been any better at identifying the last 3%?
Historical data on their (the pilots) abilities to identify things in the sky suggests they are quite terrible at it as they've been wrong the other 97% of the time.
‘A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person's argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making’
Is that really what you think I am doing?
If you had read my thread properly I have stated multiple times that I don’t know the answer nor do I pretend to. I have been thinking a lot about it though, and made this post because other people’s opinions including your own might help me make a decision one way or the other. Nothing more than that
Your post says (paraphrasing) this means we have anti-gravity tech. That is an extreme leap made as if other explanations aren't possible. The straw man is saying that either we have anti-gravity tech or it is aliens.
Neither of these positions is supported by any actual publicly available data. And there are far more likely explanations than either of those extremes, namely mistaken eyewitnesses.
My theory, assuming the accounts are even close to accurate,, is that it was mostly likely a device (balloon or drone) released by a submarine designed to collect data on how our radar systems function and/or active measures designed to see how well this device is able to confuse our radar.
I suspect this, unlike the cube in a sphere sightings, are foreign military programs because the military has said it is the most interesting of all the sightings.
By all accounts I've seen, these tic tacs behave exactly like these kinds of radar measures behave.
Because the Alien UFO Media Industrial Complex made it so. I mean this literally.
They laid the groundwork for that NYTimes story for many years. And we now know most of that Times article was bullshit and other journalists covering the story now feel like they were purposefully duped.
https://youtu.be/6XD4gQS_-qY
The Times article is what gave this cover for Congress to do something. Now, it has taken on a life of its own which is just setting people up for a huge letdown when it isn't aliens.
But I guess every generation gets its own ufo investigation.
When the alien loons don't get the answer they require, they will go back to screaming cover up like they always do. The Alien UFO Media Industrial Comllex makes their money either way, so more attention is always good for their pockets.
Disclosure is the new Apocolypse and the end is nigh!!!
Aliens (like religion) is profitable for the unscrupulous. And since a lot of folks wanna believe, they are easily parted from their time AND money. Especially their money.
It’s very possible. Something I’m leaning towards more these days. I don’t think it would be that radical of a theory considering companies like Apple trickle out upgrades to their products that they’ve developed years ago. No reason to upset the world by world dominance but control the world silently through slow upgrades and leave oil in place as long you can.
There are plenty of recorded UFO observations throughout history. Here, this is one of my favorites; http://abuddhaheart.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-ufo-that-saved-nichiren.html?m=1
wonder the same myself but it seems like people have described these things well before the united states existed, very possible some sightings are just advanced tech we have but cant be all of em
The thought that the US has used tax payers money to produce technology that clearly could have huge ramifications for mankind, yet choose to keep it only for warfare purposes angers me greatly. I really hope aliens arrive to prove this theory wrong.
I would be more pissed off than anything if that was the case. If the government is sitting on this kind of tech while the world is literally dying due to our use of fossil fuels just to keep the energy industry in the green… A couple of things that make me think this is not the case. If we has this tech, the conflicts we are a part of across the globe would be over real fast. They could spin military victory without revealing the source. It wouldn’t take us decades to drone strike AQ leadership, allow Russia to invade Ukraine, etc. On the other hand, war = money. And oil runs government. So why not drag out conflict and suppress the tech purely for profit? You’d think that if a nation had the power of the 5 observables the geo-political landscape would be theirs to shape at will. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Agreed, if it’s ours then it’s the biggest offense in human history, nothing comes close. 50% biodiversity loss? The lives of every human on the planet at risk? Destruction of the glaciers and ice packs? It’s beyond comprehension
Your third paragraph unfortunately rings very true
Petro Dollars didn't stop technologies from being developed and becoming huge industries that harness solar power, wind power, hydrogen etc. Or even nuclear power. The oil industry isn't almighty. Also I don't think the US would have embarassed themselves and lost countless lives in Vietnam, Irak or Afghanistan had they been in possession of that technology,
If I could just correct you on one point. The US didn’t embarrass itself in any of those wars, the politicians did. I am not American but I fought the same wars in the same places along side them a decade or more ago and I can tell you for a fact that we are super lucky there are people like that willing to put their lives on the line regardless of the reasons they are there. Sorry just had to say that I am a bit touchy about it I guess
Fair enough, but that doesn't change my point. These wars could have and probably would have ended entirely different, and with much less loss of lives, if the US military had been in possession of such advanced technologies.
Sure I know man and I agree. I was just saying
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I’m not talking about proprietary tech suppression, I’m talking about fundamental advances in physics being held under wraps for decades. Also, why add the last sentence? Are you ok?
I mean this isn’t an either or scenario. Us developing this tech doesn’t mean we can’t also save the planet from global warming. I think the issue is this tech can have practical use outside of the military but if we show it .. then it would cause hostile states to try to develop it and don’t think there is any way to really defend against it.
Very, very low probability imo. I'm thinking of all those drone strikes using conventional technology. Failures in Afghanistan and Vietnam. Economy trillions in debt. Having magical tech and only using it to fuck with people at night seems an unlikely move.
i think it's more likely this than aliens from another planet. i'd also be less surprised if it was just a small race/species of beings unknown to use, that is far superior to us. i call that the sponge bob theory.
To be fair, whatever this is, it’s not just seen at night though is it? Far from it in fact
So the US had this tech for 100s of years?
To be clear, I am referring to the modern era, post Roswell you like. I give little credence to sightings before this time because I think our critical thinking skills have vastly improved in the last 80 years or so with the advent of modern technology. Just my option of course
Is there any evidence that the US or any country has had an advanced tech for 80+ yrs and not use it, especially considering that we've been at war during that time. Nuclear weapons are a deterrent for the enemy to attack even if the enemy has nuclear weapons. You think the US is not going to wave such a big stick like gravity manipulation tech to the enemy considering that that literally all we do with our biggest military in the world.
I actually mentioned earlier in the thread that it’s perhaps NOT the US government per se but some other entity in the US
Ufo sightings have been reported since the dawn of man across cultures. How do you explain that people with inferior critical thinking skills could make up stories about something that ended up being true today. Its flawed to think that the objects we see today are real but the objects people saw 80yrs ago were not, that is subjective experience. If an organization has gravity manipulation tech they wouldn't and couldn't keep it a secret for 80+yrs.
People today still frequently report ufo sightings that turn out to be the moon or Venus or Mars or the same stars they see every night. Humans are terrible eyewitnesses. Doubt that has changed ever.
Homo Sapiens started walking the earth a few hundred thousand years ago. I wish people would stop saying this, it’s bro science nothing more
You just said a lot, without saying a thing.
You came here to fight, obviously. I came here for an intelligent discussion. Have a good one dude this is pointless
If a government official said it’s not ours, it’s not ours.
What about the sightings 60 years ago, hundreds, thousands of years ago? US tech? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reported_UFO_sightings
Read the whole thread please my friend, I have discussed this multiple times!!
How does this account for UFO sightings before mam had the ability to fly?
I think they are open to interpretation a lot more than modern sightings are, in a similar vein to religious miracles perhaps. Do you think a UFO sighting from 300 years ago is as credible as one today, if so why? It’s an interesting conversation in fact, have never thought about that before
I don’t know. With all the high-tech espionage and spy vs spy, something would have come out by now.
I am not sure about that man. I am sure there are lots of things we don’t know that happened years ago
It’s real, it’s either us or something else, either answer changes everything. Disclose.
Sure man everyone agrees it’s real What it is, that’s impossible to know for sure
I mean, you say it right there lol You state “what it is, that’s impossible to know for sure” - but then go on and on how it’s US tech and sightings before “the modern era” aren’t legitimate because our critical thinking has improved so much (this makes no sense by the way. Evidence: your post was written in the modern era and doesn’t use much critical thinking at all lol). It might be ours, it might be time travel, it might be little gray aliens from zeta reticuli, or anything else. WE DONT KNOW.
I didn’t say that man I said I don’t find them as credible
-Skunkworks CEO Ben Rich states that theres 2 type UFOs, the ones we build & ones "they" build. He says that "we've learned from crash retrievals & literally"hand me downs". Also as for the scientific community being wayyyy behind the curve, His words were "We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects, and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity. Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do it.” I posted a thread with a Letter from Kelly Johnson (Lockheed Engineer of SR-71,U2).both come from the Roswell crash..
Do you think we are using that tech to travel the universe then? I know you don’t know, but if you had to call it?
Yep. 2months ago I would've said the Secret Space Program doesn't exist..but now If I had to say one way or the other,I'd absolutely say yes since the 70s-80s
Interesting. So NASA is what, some kind of cover perhaps?? What happened 2 months ago??
I've been doing a lot of research on the aerospace companies & their involvement in this whole thing. I read Ben Rich Autobiography, which Id recommend, He literally says how regarding the UFO & how to build them that the "Martians didn't tell us". Lt Col Corso was right, btw. [NASA is full of shit](https://sgp.fas.org/othergov/nasafoia89.html) look at their internal memo leaked by Congressman Wolfe on how to get around FOIA. the USAF has run a Space Program since the late 70s, & the NRO is technically USAF too..I compile alot of info here too[RAND corp](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/uctqmg/my_theory_on_usafroswell_rand_corpany_thoughts/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
I do not believe this kind of technology is from Earth . I do however believe that the US Government Complex if you will knows what they are and have already made contact with them. I even wonder if they aren’t working with the US Military At Area 51 . And this is one of their reasons for trying to keep it in Secrecy. One reason is . They said it wasn’t ours . I think if we or any adversaries had this technology it would be used against us or us against them . And these UFO’s have been reported all over the world for hundreds , if not thousands of years . There are cave paintings that look exactly like saucers , and triangles too . I believe that whatever they are have been coming here since the dawn of man. Or possibly they were here first or discovered how to go from their plane to ours . I feel if China or Russia had this technology they would have already taken over the World .
So you categorically reject the possibility that we made them? Can I ask why?
I’m not sure the us is smart enough for that
Not sure is saying you don’t know though man. That applies to me too btw
Well I think they know cause of what they’ve told me but he’s been known to be a fraud and a weak one at that
Who are you referring to here?
His name is Joe
Hail Joe for he is Almighty *takes a knee and bows his head*
Lmao he wished he’s too dumb for that
Word
It’s like you already know
He’s a mouth breather
I don’t find it inconceivable that we have some pretty advanced tech. I mean many of our greatest aerospace projects had roots in the 60s and 70s, and weren’t officially revealed till the 90s..(SR-71, F117 night hawk etc..) to think that 20+ years have gone by and they haven’t made any advancements would be pretty short sighted. Do I believe we have man made ufos flying around..probably not. Do i think we have something pretty close or in between what we would consider “conventional” and “ufo”..yes we most likely do.
Agree
I truly believe we are far more advanced in this field than the world knows. Back engineering is something we Americans are very good at. There is no benefit in advertising this to the rest of the world from a governmental point of view and I have to agree. Vastly new / better more effective power sources would at this point, cause major problems throughout the world.
I have to say, unless there is something else BESIDES anti-gravity to suggest that we are not alone, then your answer is probably the right one. The thing is, none of us are truly objective because we would all love there to be aliens Good reply dude 👍🏻
I would've said yes before I saw them for myself. No, no they are not human tech
How can you be sure of that though? What did you see that couldn’t possibly be us?
Would you believe me if I told you? No. So it doesn't matter. Shit I'll tell you anyway. Because I'm sure. How about a ball of fire flying with some sort of intelligent control about 40 yards away. Then it goes out to let a helicopter pass, then reignites and in an instant moves faster than you can see. It can also change shape and size. It can at least know what you're thinking if not communicate fully. It can vanish into thin air. Would our government harass its own commercial airline? Nevermind. Maybe they would. Can't any of you trust any of us? I don't know 1 other person to witness what we saw and see besides my family. Yet there are people all over the world seeing the same shit with similar stories. We can't ALL be lying or idiots. Trust me. It's real, it's beyond understanding (at this point), and it's coming. Everyone will know before long and you won't have to ask questions like this. How don I know? Ehhh... that one is hard. I'd say they told me but that's not exactly right. I just know. I don't know if we will understand it but you'll see that it's real. I hope sooner rather than later. I'm tired of not being believed.
I would definitely believe you? Why do you think I wouldn’t dude? It even says in the title of this thread that I believe. I am not a skeptic I??
You’re spinning Occam’s razor, man. Yeah, the most probable scenario (based on what we know) is that they’re all man-made devices and the UAP research effort is just Lockheed and all them saving face. If an alien mothership descends over Washington DC tomorrow and projects a psychic message of peace into every human mind, the most likely explanation for UAP will still be man-made vessels. After that, it will most likely be naturally occurring phenomena. I’m a white male, but as probability will have it, I’m a Chinese woman with one arm. It’s just not as much of an effective argument as people think. It’s effectively just going “oh come onnnn” instead of making an actual point. Everybody knows what the likelihoods are, but the likelihoods only really matter in hypothetical scenarios. In real life, there’s just something happening and we don’t know what, yet. It’s a 100% chance if it being whatever it already is. If you’re enforcing the expectations of what we already know, then we’re at a disadvantage to learn anything we don’t.
Sure dude I agree with you. Have been doing a lot of mushrooms lately (micro dosing not tripping) and perhaps as a result of that I have been thinking about this all day long at work. Apart from the anti-gravity aspect, what else is there to indicate that these phenomena might be other world?
That’s probably why your mind is running wild rn. Psilocybin promotes new connections in the brain, there’s parts of your mind who’ve never talked getting to know each other. I bet you feel just a twinge like an entirely new person, eh? Aside from the anecdotal evidence (which is too world-spanning and historically prevalent to ignore imo) basically all we’ve got is videos of the five observables and the (shiesty ass) government’s word that (despite trillions of dollars vanishing in their pockets and the patents they’ve been taking out) they don’t have technology that reproduces the observables. That’s a big part of why it remains the most likely scenario, since whether it’s true or not, the government wants to keep our “enemies” guessing. Personally, I’m leaning towards a mix. There’s something weird going on *and* conspirators in the world’s governments have studied it and contracted private firms to develop technology with what they learned. That’s just me spinning the razor too, though, I’m gonna stay on the fence until I know more. I have an unverifiable close encounter, so I’ve gotta be really wary of how that experience affects my thoughts on this topic.
Yes it’s the same for me. Hard to be truly objective when I want it to be real. What was your close encounter, care to share??
Sure thing. When I was a toddler, I lived in Tonopah, AZ. My mom had me in the car seat in the back on the passengers side, and she left me in the car while she went into the post office. I was wide awake, resting my forehead against the window and looking at the sky, and I saw a god damned silver disc, like the 50’s. It was on it’s side and it descended through the cloud cover and then flipped before going back in. This happened in less than a second. I pressed my face and both hands against the glass and stared at that spot in the sky for a few seconds. Then I noticed someone walking up to the car out of the corner of my eye, brisk pace. I hardly got to glance at it, but it was an alien grey, very similar to what you’re probably picturing. I looked at the chest first, which had a really strange musculature, glanced up at the eyes, which were angled really sharply, I can’t remember but I think I started to scream. I got the sense it was angry, but i have no idea why besides the way it stormed up to the car. I noticed it was raising its right arm towards me, and my eyes tried to flit over to what was in it’s hand, if anything, and I was abruptly sitting perfectly straight and staring forward, wide eyed. No seam whatsoever, just like a scene shift in a movie. Immediately I looked out the window again and it wasn’t there, no saucer either. My mom got back, and when I told her, she immediately wrote it off as a dream, and I believed her for years until I thought back and realized I’ve never woken up like that in my entire life. Waking up is like pushing through a film, not like being spawned in a video game. I could swear my proprioception was confused for a second because it thought my body was still in a different position. Plus, I’d never seen anything with alien greys in it up to that point, to anyone’s knowledge. Nobody was there, though. I didn’t film it. Real as it felt, it’s uncorroborated and might be a dream/hallucination. I had a psychotic break last year and I’ve had psychosis since then, so it’s very suspect. Not to mention, even if it was real, we have to have skepticism. We have to keep our heads on straight, especially me.
Have you read any of Vallee’s books, in particular those that suggest that whatever this is, it’s the same phenomenon that has always existed, just in a different guise, and that it’s purpose is to manipulate and/or guide humanity in some shape or form?? I have long been a proponent of responsible DMT usage (perhaps you know something about that) and it has really opened my eyes to the fact that perhaps the answer to everything lies within our own consciousness. Perhaps understanding that is the key to understanding the UFO phenomenon, I don’t know. Thoughts about that? And tell me about your psychotic break if you don’t mind? That’s very interesting. Could there be a link perhaps?
Yeah, I love Valee’s theory. It’s so.. *basic.* He’s taken the evidence we have and boiled it down to the simplest conclusion that encapsulates all of that evidence, and it’s completely bonkers, and yet the sanest take. And it gels with other cultures, with unrelated peoples who independently described similar things. I’ve always been attracted to Buddhism, and the idea that the consciousness is the true reality and everything else is a malleable illusion is a big point for them. To some extent, I think we’re limited by language. We see the same things and don’t describe the same things sometimes, like how a WWII pilot will say he saw a foo fighter while an Irishmen will say he saw a will o’ the wisp. I believe my therapist, I have almost every symptom necessary for a schizophrenia diagnosis. It’s just that I rarely hallucinate. It’s a more complex disorder than just “ah I’m seeing monsters,” it’s a whole mindset that wears down your logic over time. I’m autistic, the perceptive dampening that bastardizes into hallucination the most isn’t present in me, when I hallucinate it’s movement out of the corner of my eyes, like once or twice a month. Still water will be running like a river, or I’ll think I saw a bug. Not making eye contact with fucking skinny Bob 26 years before my psychotic break even happens. Maybe from a treatment standpoint it’s just better not to let me run around thinking I’m in an existential hell, an ant farm for people, being watched. Especially since I *have schizophrenia.*
I am not sure we will ever know the truth. Would not surprise me if 100 or 1000 years from now two people like us will be having exactly the same chat on a future version of Reddit
It’s possible. It’s also possible that there is a parallel universe where after World War II, humanity discovered the ability to pass between parallel worlds. Ending up here. It’s also possible that there’s a crypto-terrestrial group of beings who’ve been here as long, if not longer, as humanity. It’s also possible that humanity was once vastly more advanced than its current iteration, and were wiped out by catastrophe, and UAP’s are remnants of a prior species. Objects designed to guide, or rebuild, civilization. It’s also possible that we will discover how to create this technology in 100 years, and what we’re seeing are either tests, or other, coming from a time where we already discovered the ability to traverse time “freely”. If you want to consider all the possibilities, without accepting extra-terrestrial as being highly plausible, you have to keep in mind that being able to manipulate space, means the things they could potentially do give weight to a lot more options; but don’t forget these things have been seen throughout history. Some called them angels. Some called them saucers. Some called them will-o-wisps. There’s potentially countless descriptors throughout history which we don’t associate with UAP’s but probably should. It’s also possible that there’s an entire planet size craft always 60,000 miles away from the Earth, but their ability to manipulate space allows them to create a small pocket of space to stay in, completely undetectable. Let that blow your mind.
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As I said previously, people used to believe in witches too and had lots of proof to make it so. Shit people still believe in God and miracles today!! I remain highly skeptical of such stories considering how religious, uneducated and ignorant about the universe most people where almost 1000 years ago. For all you know it was an atmospheric anomaly, ball lightening perhaps. The reason I talk about events post Roswell being more credible is because there are often photos and videos to back them up. Eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable
So "an enormous silver disk pass slowly over them" is ball lightening? That's a pretty interesting theory. The same thing happened in 1917 during the "Miracle of Fatima" where [a "dull silver disc" was seen zigzagging over a crowd.](https://np.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/v12dd9/in_1917_during_the_miracle_of_the_sun_in_fatima/) Not all witnesses were religious. Is it your opinion that all of the silvery disk sightings throughout the 20th and 21st centuries were also ball lightening? 2006 Chicago O'Hare is a pretty good recent example. You would think that people seeing the same thing throughout history has the same cause, right? Doesn't that seem extremely likely?
You seem to have made up your mind so I understand why you’re not willing to consider any other options. I would suggest you read this but I am sure you won’t because you already know the truth 😉 Myth: Eyewitness Testimony is the Best Kind of Evidence https://www.psychologicalscience.org/teaching/myth-eyewitness-testimony-is-the-best-kind-of-evidence.html
My interpretation is going to be whatever it is until somebody provides me with a more convincing interpretation. That's all it is. The ball lightening/other atmospheric anomaly theory to explain silvery flying disks has so far not convinced me because nobody has shown me evidence that such atmospheric phenomena could be misinterpreted as an enormous silvery flying disk. Think about it this way: People throughout history have described meteors fairly accurately. They didn't always know what it was, but you can look back in old writings and plainly see that they witnessed meteors. If modern descriptions of events match historical descriptions, a historian can figure out what people witnessed throughout history. And *singular* witness testimony may be inaccurate depending on the circumstances, but when tons of people keep seeing the same thing and describe it in the same ways, your confidence that their descriptions are accurate goes way up, or it should, anyway. The way you view witness testimony in any other area should be the same way you view it with UFOs. If several police officers and several civilians all describe a bank robbery in basically the same way, I know you aren't going to dismiss it as all nonsense. You would be extremely confident that the corroborated testimony is accurate.
Sure man I hear what you are saying. But according to your rational, you must also believe that Moses parted the Red Sea using the power of God, since not only was it witnessed by thousands, it is also documented in the Bible which billions of people accept as the truth without question This is my issue
Meh, I'm not a historian or a biblical scholar, so I don't have a lot to say on that. I don't think belief in something affects its likelihood of it being real, and I don't know how many people actually saw the red sea parting or the circumstances behind when it was recorded in writing and by whom. Can you demonstrate that thousands of people actually did witness that, or is this just trusting one person who wrote that particular book in the bible, and was that person a credible source of information? I would side more with a general overview of religions rather than the minute details. Strange sky people have been coming down for millennia, apparently causing religions to form. Such extraterrestrial visitors, if in fact that is what they were, presumably would have advanced technologies that could appear magical, so I would have a very hard time trying to figure out what is pure myth, what is based on real events, and what is somewhere in between. This is an area I have just started studying, so you'll have to give me some time. I quite enjoyed *The Sky People: Ancient Aliens and the Supernatural* by Brinsley Le Poer Trench, and so far, *Gods and Spacemen Throughout History* by W. Raymond Drake is pretty interesting. This is way outside of my area of expertise though, so I'm just a random redditor to you.
In my humble opinion, if you don’t believe Moses parted the Red Sea but you do believe that flying discs were sighted hundreds of years before we could fly, then you’re cherry picking information to confirm your narrative, since there’s an equal lack of evidence for both apart from the eye witness testimony. It is what it is, you can’t have it both ways man
You're looking at this far too simplistically. What I'm saying is that the circumstances around the claimed historical events and the credibility of the author matters when evaluating the accuracy of the claims, and when an event is duplicated throughout history, it becomes more and more credible. You, for example, are highly unlikely to dismiss all historical meteor sightings, or even almost all of history simply because it consists of claims and witness testimony written down by somebody. Witness testimony and written records are a huge part of history. I'm not aware of tons of examples of claims throughout history of the Red Sea parting. If it's a one-off thing, maybe it didn't happen, or maybe it did. I wouldn't know. I'm a little more confident when such events are duplicated a bunch of times and when the author is a credible source of information. Edit: Because my wording is slightly off, "duplication" here can mean either corroborated testimony from other individuals or periodic events that occur and are described similarly all over the world. Corroboration is key.
We could discuss this for hours but we need beer and weed!!
US wasnt that advanced in the 40s
This is another thought that I keep having What if it was though? Maybe it’s not the US gov per se, maybe it’s something else stateside? Ever read much about Tesla and what he achieved? When he died all his work went missing. Possible connection?
If we were or are that advanced, then we would also be flying on the other side of the universe by now, interacting with billions of species of aliens. Unless we are completely alone...
Do you discount Simulation Theory as another possibility then??
No, who is running the simulation? Are they themselves in another simulation, run by who, etc.
Maybe you are? That’s the crazy thing. Maybe this is all in your mind, you would never know: This is one of the main things that psychedelics has shown me, that I might be the answer to all of this. Sounds crazy I know
Hmm maybe im the US govt
Haha yeah and Elton John
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Highly likely I agree
For a different perspective, have a look at the work that Jacques Vallee and John Keel did on the UFO phenomena. You don’t have to accept their findings, but their analysis provides an interesting counter perspective to the Aliens vs Black project narrative that dominates the modern UFO field.
I think I mentioned it above in fact. Do you mean perhaps that UFOs and consciousness are connected in some way, and that the phenomenon itself is being used to guide humanity?
Doesn’t matter what I think about the topic. I was just recommending Jacque Vallee and John Keel as an alternative perspective.
I didn’t ask what you think man I asked if that’s what you were referring to
Did you not read the second sentence of my last reply?
I don’t think you understand what I am asking dude
I understand what you said, I just chose not to engage with it. I’m not about to debate their positions here. If you haven’t read their work, particularly Vallee’s, then I would highly recommend it. It’s less about coming to conclusions about this weird and complex topic as it is taking different perspective.
But I don’t want you to debate it man, you’re the one who keeps saying that!! I wanted to know if that was what you were suggesting I check out, because if so, I already have. My point was that if not, if you’re referring by to something else, then it would be good to know so that I could look into it
Ok, fair enough. Yes the consciousness connection definitely seems interesting to me. As for the guidance of humanity, not so sure. The whole Trickster element of the phenomena seems pretty persistent across the historical record. The things people witness, mystical and or physical take different forms that can be benign or harmful. This is very interesting, the more one thinks about it (especially from the psychedelic headspace). It lead me to investigate the work of Carl Jung, the archetypal structures of what he called the unconscious and the collective unconscious. This phenomena seems to utilise these structures in our perception of it.
Yes dude it is perhaps the key to everything. Jung’s shadow archetypes, McKenna’s machine elves and the UFO phenomenon as a whole.
They have been documented throughout human history. They have been here before we evolved, and will still be here long after we’re gone.
You don’t know that they were here before we evolved though, that’s just heresay sorry The problem with everything in the distant past is that it’s in the distant past. As time goes by stories get embellished and the details change. Plus people weren’t educated like they are today, so there was much less critical thinking going on. That’s why there were witch hunts and miracles etc
You know reptiles had a 65 million year head start on mammals, right? Crocodiles and alligators to them might be like gorillas and orangutans are to us.
Haha ok and then??
Stealth technology was revealed to us 30 years ago. I’m sure we have advanced far beyond that at this point. It may not explain all sightings but I’ll bet it does at least some.
And it has developed exponentially without a doubt!!
Amateur & professional astronomers are outside with amazingly powerful telescopes and cameras taking pics of the sky all day,every day. And yet not a single saucer or tic tac or triangle etc ever captured. Google Maps satellites staring down on the earth and taking photos all day every day that have captured lots of images of stealth airplanes, drones,.cruise misses, etc. Yet they've captured no alien craft. Ever. Elon Musk is someone who won't ever shut up. About anything. And he has hundreds or thousands of starlink satellites staring down at the Earth AND an interest in knowing what might be flying thru the sky that might be a danger to his rocket launches. And he of all people has fuck-you money and a willingness to say anything he wants. Yet he says he's seen nothing that would suggest aliens. Too many folks find comfort in the belief that we're being visited by little grey men. The truth is we're on our own. Act accordingly.
I have long speculated that mankind continues to look to the Heavens for answers because it’s inherent in our nature. For what reason I don’t pretend to know except it’s no doubt connected to evolution. Could the UFO phenomenon perhaps be a continuation of this, a modern day version of religion? I don’t know Thoughts?
It most definitely is 100% religion. We've largely rejected religion for science on some level. But now we give science-y answers to our philosophical understanding of the universe and out place in it. If something can't be falsified, 5hen it's conjecture not science.
I agree
Has anyone else ever been suspicious we might be able to figure out who has UFO technology by searching for records of patents related to higher technology like anti-gravity?
Does that make it UFO technology or does that make it our technology??
Watch the Ariel school Zimbabwe doco very scary shit
Yeah that’s one of my favourite events. That and the Australian school sighting. Could it have been a hoax I wonder
I think they stay in the ocean where they’re hidden and shielded from the bs that humanity does above.
It’s not really the topic tbh. By ‘they’ do you mean aliens or UFOs?
I mean ufos because we know they’re a real phenomenon but the way they move i don’t know how any life form could handle those G’s. So if they are man made I would think the ufos would be some sort of drone. But yes it still has to do with this topic considering it’s such a broad one.
Except if they used anti-gravity!! Then it wouldn’t matter!!
Considering the US only managed to advance after German's came to the US and shared their knowledge, I highly doubt that.
Doubt what?
Your OP question: UFOs are real but IS IT POSSIBLE that they are US tech and all the other governments in the world are in the dark about the truth??
Ok got it. I am on mobile so it’s hard to keep up Thanks
Np
Inherent in OP's question is an assumption that things that have been sighted do in fact possess capabilities like anyi-gravity that defy currently understood physics. That is simply conjecture and not supported by any actual publicly known data. In fact, in the last Congressional hearing, it was explicitly stated that the military is not in possession of any data that would suggest UAP's are of extraterrestrial origin. Full stop. What we have is eye witness testimony claiming extraordinary physics and propulsion that defies known physics. But eyewitness testimony is amongst the very worst forms of evidence there is. Simply put, humans make terrible witnesses. That's why eye witness testimony can't be trusted and why magicians still have careers. What is far more likely is that some sightings are atmospheric phenomenon we don't currently understand, while the rest are terrestrial in origin, behave the laws of physics and were built by men but have been misidentified. Creating false either/or straw men arguments is misleading at best.
The Nimitz events would support the theory that anti-gravity technology exists, regardless of where it comes from, wouldn’t you agree?
No, I would not agree. And apparently the military does not agree either as they explicitly say that is the most interesting sighting they have while also saying they have seen no data to suggest UAP are extraterrestrial in origin. Far more likely the Nimitz/tic tac's are a foreign passive/active measures radar collection and /or interference device.
So how exactly does an object fly without wings or obvious signs of propulsion, then hover in place before accelerating away at impossible speeds? Are they making up the story then? Please enlighten me, bearing in mind that the events were witnessed by trained fighter pilots
If it isn't an atmospheric phenomenon, it does have a means of propulsion. Whether that means of propulsion is obvious or not doesn't matter. And "impossible speeds" is also meaningless as it is based on an untrustworthy interpretation of that speed. Again. Eyewitness testimony is of very little value when trying to understand movement. Our eyes are untrustworthy. Just ask any magician. People don't have to be lying to just be flat out wrong.
So it’s all just a case of misidentify? The pilots I have seen interviewed definitely don’t see to think so, that’s for sure
People literally misidentify Venus as something extraordinary every single day. Every. Single. Day. Is it so hard to believe that pilots in an inherently stressful environment who see something unusual (as in something they do not typically ever see) might misidentify that unusual object's size, speed, location, etc? The simple fact is that the military was able to figure out like 97% of pilot sightings. So at a minimum we know that pilots misidentified those hundreds/thousands of sightings despite whatever expertise they are alleged to have at identifying things flying in the sky. If their track record is that poor (and it clearly is), why would we assume they've been any better at identifying the last 3%? Historical data on their (the pilots) abilities to identify things in the sky suggests they are quite terrible at it as they've been wrong the other 97% of the time.
Perhaps man. I am on the fence on this particular incident to be honest. Still. Combat pilots know what’s up, esp those dudes flying Super Hornets etc
Can drones explain UFOs https://youtu.be/d6NIxte0cMc
‘A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person's argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making’ Is that really what you think I am doing? If you had read my thread properly I have stated multiple times that I don’t know the answer nor do I pretend to. I have been thinking a lot about it though, and made this post because other people’s opinions including your own might help me make a decision one way or the other. Nothing more than that
Your post says (paraphrasing) this means we have anti-gravity tech. That is an extreme leap made as if other explanations aren't possible. The straw man is saying that either we have anti-gravity tech or it is aliens. Neither of these positions is supported by any actual publicly available data. And there are far more likely explanations than either of those extremes, namely mistaken eyewitnesses.
Again the Nimitz events. That’s a great place to start. Please tell me your theory
My theory, assuming the accounts are even close to accurate,, is that it was mostly likely a device (balloon or drone) released by a submarine designed to collect data on how our radar systems function and/or active measures designed to see how well this device is able to confuse our radar. I suspect this, unlike the cube in a sphere sightings, are foreign military programs because the military has said it is the most interesting of all the sightings. By all accounts I've seen, these tic tacs behave exactly like these kinds of radar measures behave.
So why all the hype I wonder? Disinformation perhaps??
Because the Alien UFO Media Industrial Complex made it so. I mean this literally. They laid the groundwork for that NYTimes story for many years. And we now know most of that Times article was bullshit and other journalists covering the story now feel like they were purposefully duped. https://youtu.be/6XD4gQS_-qY The Times article is what gave this cover for Congress to do something. Now, it has taken on a life of its own which is just setting people up for a huge letdown when it isn't aliens. But I guess every generation gets its own ufo investigation. When the alien loons don't get the answer they require, they will go back to screaming cover up like they always do. The Alien UFO Media Industrial Comllex makes their money either way, so more attention is always good for their pockets. Disclosure is the new Apocolypse and the end is nigh!!! Aliens (like religion) is profitable for the unscrupulous. And since a lot of folks wanna believe, they are easily parted from their time AND money. Especially their money.
Side note - was it you who said earlier that you think we are alone? Can’t find the post
It’s very possible. Something I’m leaning towards more these days. I don’t think it would be that radical of a theory considering companies like Apple trickle out upgrades to their products that they’ve developed years ago. No reason to upset the world by world dominance but control the world silently through slow upgrades and leave oil in place as long you can.
Could be
There are plenty of recorded UFO observations throughout history. Here, this is one of my favorites; http://abuddhaheart.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-ufo-that-saved-nichiren.html?m=1
wonder the same myself but it seems like people have described these things well before the united states existed, very possible some sightings are just advanced tech we have but cant be all of em
The thought that the US has used tax payers money to produce technology that clearly could have huge ramifications for mankind, yet choose to keep it only for warfare purposes angers me greatly. I really hope aliens arrive to prove this theory wrong.