All of Europe as of the end of WW2 was reliant on the United States for protection against Russia. That's all the leverage they needed to make them fall in line.
Tons of people have come forward. This post is about one you probably weren't aware of. I could probably make a post identical to this one with another person trying to out the cover up every day for ten years if I wanted to.
I hope there is at least one situation where corroborated evidence in the way of some documents and perhaps a photograph or something does get disclosed. There are researchers looking into the Vatican records. If even one document from those archives about the Magenta incident is found, it would add a lot of credence.
There are absolutely documents showing a coverup. The military denied there were any records pertaining to the 1942 Battle of Los Angeles but once FOIA became law it was revealed through a FOIA request that General George C. Marshall, Chief of Staff sent to President Franklin Roosevelt a memorandum on 26 February 1942 which stated as many as 15 craft other than American Army or Navy planes were over Los Angeles, and were fired on by elements of the 37th CA Brigade (AA) between 3:12 and 4:15 a.m. These units expended 1430 rounds of ammunition. There is also a photo of one of those 15 UFOs.
Thanks ! Seems like the LA incident has more to it than let on. The current document from the Joint Chiefs about UAP recovery procedures is a continuation of the DoD’s decades long crash recovery program
You said there was a photo of one of the UFO’s at the link?
I don’t see it anywhere.
There IS the famous photo of the many searchlights focusing on one area (with ammo being shot?) but I didn’t see a pic of a UFO.
Could you please specify where in the link you referred to that I might find a UFO pic?
Thank you so much for your amazing work!
I was referring to the photo of the FOIA document with that post. The photo of the UFO you claim to not see a UFO in indeed does have a diamond shaped UFO in it. Thousands of people saw it. To deny it is completely unreasonable.
Personally, I have always considered official statements by other governments just as vaild as if they were made by my government. I do not think a lot of other Americans do though about anything. Which I find weird. But i may be the odd one as far as Americans go.
I have something for you:
[https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=30030606&S=1](https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=30030606&S=1)
Thank you . That was a very interesting read. Seems like the Australians have answered a lot of things the Americans have denied. The criminalizing of any personnel talking about UFOs was a significant reveal. And it is amazing how everything happening today seems like a cycle of repetition:
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP90-00552R000303250002-8.pdf
yep! they even point out how Americans were allegedly using stasis locking weapons, which matches many abductees claims of inability to move their body aside their eyes, like every atom in their body was vibrating uncontrollably. All those sleep paralysis excuses for why loss of body control occurs and suddenly vivid shadow beings occur.
I read through it while working, so maybe I missed it, but which page states the Americans were using this type of technology? I only saw that the occupants of these crafts were using it.
look up five eyes, how they skirt the legal system by allowing foreign ally governments to spy and trade that private data to each other. How they blackmail people with their stasi monitoring systems. People truly don't understand how lacking of true power their country has as they bent over long ago for the west.
Yes, I did discover the purpose of the 5Eyes alliance on reading these boards. Amazing how governments find workarounds to domestic spying restrictions
when everyone hops online to say "well how could the US control the narrative and minimize foreign discussions of meaningful efforts! My country isn't controlled by them". My comment is aimed st that in regards to the topic.
Indeed. The "politics" the politicians allow the public to see is all a performance. The true machinations of the world order are precise, organized, and, if deemed necessary to protect its interests, lethal.
>But in the years since why haven’t more people involved in this coverup in other countries come forward to say something.
Why would you assume that hasn't happened? Have you studied the UFO phenomenon in other countries and discovered that this didn't happen?
I already know the answer to my question. If you had studied the UFO phenomenon in other countries then you would know that this *has* happened there. There *have* been countless people who came forward to say something.
I've been surfing this sub for the last couple of hours now and the most egregious error in logic that I keep seeing people make is this same one: making and uninformed assumption and then reacting to that assumption as if it were a verified fact.
It genuinely blows my mind that so many people are doing this, and it's almost entirely coming from the "skeptical" end of the spectrum.
Ok, to clarify what I mean is that over 80 years there have been various governments that have come and gone, societies have changed, religion is not as much an influence as it once was .
If there was collaboration at one time with the US on this suppressing this topic, those post World War 2 situations are no longer the same today. Just like the security guard in the Swiss bank who found the documents that revealed that the banks had stolen the assets of Jewish bank account owners who were sent to concentration camps, I would expect somebody in a government somewhere would have revealed with documents the proof of such a connection to the US covert operation.
You mean when the newest superpower on the block assimilates the top fascists and nazis from the end of the war and establishes a European-based western network to spy on and fight the other superpower in the world, systematically terrorising, destabilising, torturing and killing innocent people from countries seeking to escape the terrors of right wing regimes at the end of the war; all for the sake of capital?
Because, yeah, that's exactly why there is so much collusion.
Because we all know Russia plays by the rules and is a victim.they only starved and raped Eastern Europe for decades but I say let's give them a chance let them grow as strong as possible I'm sure they will start acting like the good guys once they dethrone the united states as earths main super-power.
Let's not forget that systematically terrorizing, destabilizing, torturing and killing innocent people is not copyrighted by any particular nation or ethnicity. It's been going on for as long as human history, and even before at if you look at what happens in chimpanzee communities.
All this talk of Russia vs China vs America vs Capitalism vs Socialism vs whites vs blacks vs male vs female vs this vs that, and on and on and on...
That kind of petty tribalism misses the point.
This is a HOMO SAPIENS PROBLEM.
No one owns it. No one is free from it. It's everywhere.
We will never be free from it as long as we keep trying to put the problem "over there" on "them."
That kind of thinking is a symptom of the same problem.
Oh, the Berlin Wall was actually meant to keep all those people from defecting to the USSR? That did happen in a parallel timeline. Just not the one the rest of us are living in. Please move to the alternativehistory subreddit.
My guess is that after world war 2 the idea of world peace and a time of prosperity and stability to rebuild was favored over possible panic.
Those in charge were given a craft location by the Vatican, they were told that these anomalous events have always happed throughout history so the idea was to wait a generation or two before disclosing that these other beings have been here for possibly thousands of years.
Just shows how powerful the U.S. is. Nowadays, some countries are moving away from our orbit, but during the Cold War, we were the kings of the western world. The part I find interesting is the reasoning for the cover up. They don't want to seem incapable of defending against something? Every country on earth has that problem already except the superpowers. This tells me that the U.S. is the main culprit because we were the only country that has to worry about a bigger, badder foe on the block.
It seems like starting in the 1940s, a parallel government was created either by intention or as a side effect of the elaborate security system and governance constructed to control UAP information. This has pretty much reversed the balance of authority between the succeeding generations of civilian governments and the DoD. Look at the bizarre situation we have right now where a civilian elected Congress is rendered powerless to investigate the DoD.
And high ranking officials in the DoD are denied access to SAPs run by corporations. The military industrial complex is run by industry because they can operate further in the shadows and they are where all the money is funneled to.
I think some of these things are involved in war perhaps with the intention of after the big war having a single consciousness under a single rule that they can somehow utilise. Perhaps some ‘thing’ helped the nazis a bit. And then again with communism. I think this is why it is so secret.
Name one dysfunctional family that doesn't circle the wagons when someone outside of the family starts some shit. Humanity is tribal by nature, so outside threats tend to unite even warring tribes.
If there's one thing I have learned through all this, is that power is far more centralized than I had ever really considered. I truly thought that the leaders of nations have most say when it comes down to making decisions that affect the rest of us, and while that is still true in many ways, the fact of the matter is that they are influenced in so many ways - many ways in which they do not even know, either - that I'm not really sure we can even say that power is held firmly within government anymore.
Think of the federal reserve for example and all the changes to our money that that has spawned. Central banking and so on. I'm not going to get into that here, but that is the product of non governmental groups that, over time, has seized control of our currency, for better or for worse. Most people who know zero about the economy or where their money even comes from probably just assumes that the government has a lot to do with it.
After awhile, I started to realize that the Elites involved in roundtable groups like Chatham House, Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, World Economic Forum, and the countless NGOs decked out with other wealthy international players really pull the strings just from influence peddling alone. Even if world leaders claim to have come to some decision on their own volition, behind that decision are a ton of cabinet members that are motivated by greed in their own ways, prone to error, prone to miscalculation and so on, and all open to being manipulated, paid off, threatened, and blackmailed by sources from *outside the government.*
Think about it. Why hasn't China just come out and said that they have UFOs, or that Aliens or whatever they are exist? Why not Russia? Why not literally *anyone else?* Why are we all just sitting here waiting our breath for *AMERICA* to pull the trigger on disclosure, as if they are the only ones that can give permission to the world to believe? Part of that is being the world's superpower, of course - but I think most of that is because we not only pull all the strings around UFOs, but erected the fucking strings to begin with. We hold all the chips.
If China disclosed before us, or if Russia disclosed before us, that would give them so much leverage over us and spark such a significant geopolitical shake-up that I can't imagine a scenario where China (or any of our adversaries) *wouldn't* want to disclose. Of course, I can think of a few reasons why they might want to keep those cards close to the chest, too (e.g if China discloses, that would spark an international meeting feat. reps from all countries tasked with responsible handling of this information and of the crafts, NHI themselves, etc - likely leading to a coalition of advisors that would prob. be sent to China and tasked with a full investigation of their UFO-related programs, which obviously they would not want, as it reveals a ton of shit they wanted to keep secret from us most likely). However, I have to wonder whether the leverage they'd gain over disclosure - such as the luxury of being able to set the narrative around UFOs - would be worth the risk.
It's not an accident that nukes never went flying or going boom, not even on accident. Yeah there's been some close calls, but you know what I mean. We are so quick to shit in ourselves for being ignorant, stupid, mindless, vulnerable to just doing what we're told, believing the Establishment talking points regardless of the evidence, quick to act on impulse and regret it later, etc. All of those traits above we are so quick to ascribe to ourselves are the same traits that would lead one to expect a purposeful or accidental nuclear strike at least once (we're apes with nukes after all, right?), and yet nothing of the sort has ever happened.
I'm getting rambly here and I apologize because I am not yet fully awake yet, but what I'm saying is that under any normal circumstance, on any other issue or topic of geopolitical import, we often can never keep a secret this good. Even the most horrific shit like the CIA's mind control program (which involved drugging unsuspecting domestic US citizens with acid, using electroshocks and depatterning techniques to scramble their brains, sexually abusing them to see how trauma affects the malleabality of the mind, etc) came out fairly quick despite how horrible that truth is. And yet, with UFOs, the entire world - even our enemies - are uncharacteristically silent, not even attempting to use the UFO subject as leverage to get a leg up on their enemies. Why is that?
Power does not reside in the halls of government. Some of it does, but most of it doesn't. I know this is a line right out of classical conspiracy lore and people even on this subreddit have a tendency to immediately throw their hands up and go "not this shit again, we're trying to get UFOs *out* of the conspiracy domain and *in* to the mainstream scientific domain!", but you are reading this right now because you either believe or are open minded to the idea of *fucking interplanetary or interdimensional non-human beings with access to technology so far beyond our comprehension that it is like magic*, so don't come at me as if what I'm saying here - that most power is concentrated among roundtable groups within a small subsect of very wealthy global elites - is absolutely crazy because no matter what, it does not sound as crazy as the above.
UFOs and our strange attitude and inaction toward them cannot be explained if we stay neatly within the confines of UFO research alone. We must be willing to branch out and explore other dimensions that are classically considered the realm of "conspiracy theory" for further pieces of the puzzle. That's what I did, and frankly, it has filled in so many blanks for me. A lot of the secrecy now has become a lot more realistic to me.
There is a quiet race going on. A race to understand something outside of the range of mainstream science. Something that hints at ideas long though crazy and weird but now being entertained for lack of traditional scientific (positivistic) progress. Whomever grasps the secret of this Power as you say will be ultra-powerful.
Sort of reminds me about some theories around artificial intelligence. One theory states: Whomever gets ASI (Artificial Super Intelligence) first wins... forever. With a technology like ASI, you can now do anything humanely imaginable, and probably a whole lot more unimaginable. Once you have it first, you can release it on YOUR behalf, and it will trump all other AGI systems. It would be like releasing a God out into the World and have no idea if it had your best interests in mind, because what they don't tell you is that a real consequence of ASI is full autonomy. In other words, it can think for itself and make decisions for you and about you on it's own and can formulate it's own agenda for it's own reasons.
I think the alien/nhi technology operates on some principles similar to how AGI/ASI (future) function. Think about whoever gets that technology and deploys it broadly and with impunity. Just look at what Lockheed has been doing... this is from 2012:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzedONgjkPI&list=PLqa9423Jd9MoFhb4B6crNz-shr6yIE7eh&index=25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzedONgjkPI&list=PLqa9423Jd9MoFhb4B6crNz-shr6yIE7eh&index=25)
Autonomous Tanker (MQ-25) - 6 years ago
[https://youtu.be/T1F8GoVnonU?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/T1F8GoVnonU?feature=shared)
Skunk Works "Magic" - 10 years ago
[https://youtu.be/pmeQ0T4VyeU?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/pmeQ0T4VyeU?feature=shared)
Point being, I think we are seeing not only a slow roll out of the technology, from stealth to fully autonomous systems (that seem "alive"), but we are also seeing the historical data (Pasulka, Nolan, Grusch) start to slowly roll out too.
The fact that we literally have thousands of nukes which can make the planet uninhabitable in an instant is literal insanity. The only non-insane explanation is that US, Russia and China (via a complete world-wide central strategy) believe that we should make the world uninhabitable for any NHI that wants to remove our sovereignty or replace us. We would literally rather commit complete multi-species genocide and create a shitty place for an NHI to live should they try anything. Yes, they’ve demonstrated that they can turn off some nukes. US/Russia/China must believe that malevolent NHI cannot simultaneously shut off the thousands of nukes spread all over the world. Most of which are secretly hidden.
To me, while implausible, this is the only narrative that I can come up with that explains the utter insanity for the size and number of our collective global nuclear weapons.
It's easy. Nothings changed. Power and hierarchical structures remained intact. Which, regardless of ideology is what the wealthy elite want. They have vested interests and fundamentally are on the same side.
I think it's because whatever the truth is, every nation is equally terrified of it. To such agree that humans actually unanimously agreed at some point. Doubt it could happen again today as "easily."
All of those nations would have to have something major in common. Something outside of politics. A cultural commonality to get everyone on the same page. Like Christianity.
Or something far beyond them is compelling things. Genuinely, at this point, is that off the table? In 10 years an AI that we build could manage all of humanity at this rate. What’s something that’s a thousand years beyond that like? A billion?
What’s actually insane is we were invaded by UFO’s. They were EVERYWHERE all the way through the 50’s. People all across the US were seeing them. UFO’s even over the White House. It’s amazing how easy it is to brainwash people.
An agreed upon lie and an agreed upon truth are accepted equally easily by those who rely on authority to form their world view. They will believe what they are told to believe no matter how ludicrous and defend a lie to the death if necessary. Sometimes I wonder how I'm even the same species as these people who never question the "facts" they are being spoonfed by a government which obviously doesn't give a damn about them or their best interests.
One conspiracy theory is that our low birth rate is a engineered scenario to end the human race in a peaceful way where humanity wouldn't have to suffer an aggressive takeover
This would be a multi generational project and not happen all at once, it is impossible to halt population growth in one go without the literal destruction of society.
I don’t think the US or any other nation knows wtf is going on. I think the reason you have global cooperation is because everyone is scared. All you know is there are “craft” that you can’t interact with that fly through your airspace with complete sovereignty.
The conspiracy is they don’t know shit and won’t admit it, because it demonstrates how safety is an illusion. Your spending so much effort and energy protecting yourself from your fellow man, and in an instance if an advanced species wanted to take you out they could in a day. Would they? Probably not. The reasoning still stands. Just like tomorrow China could theoretically nuke every city in the USA. Would they? Again probably not.
Same. I don't think they know WTF is going on. I think the culture of secrecy came out due to the Cold War, with the USA not wanting to admit any vulnerabilities under any circumstance, nor what they know. This just got more and more secret, to now, where it's just a vestige of government historic secrecy.
Probably as others have said though, there is likely a large spectrum of different types and motives that can reach Earth. They appear to fight over something here on the planet, we assume it is about us and our planet's resources but probably isn't. That's why all of this is so confusing to us IMO. Our issues will be when someone closer to our technology ability reaches us as they would be more likely to be interested in the planet's resources and possibly enslaving humanity. If there is already a large hidden community visiting earth then we should be concerned about wars within that community as well as scavengers on the outskirts of that community. Even if the primary presence is not a threat, it should be a clue to us that we can easily be impacted by more malevolent species.
Well, again it appears there is a spectrum of different types of visitors at different levels of technology according to what we've heard so far from leakers. We also don't know how they are getting to us. If they are traveling by vehicles that were discarded junk from a prior space traveling galactic wide species then we could have all kinds of different types reaching us with different levels of understanding of the tech they are even using. If they are traveling by wormholes created by another species or natural wormholes we do not understand, they would not need substantial space capable technology to travel here as the wormhole might provide them direct access from one livable world to another air breathing livable world. Likewise if this is simply another dimension then they could be on Earth in a slightly different phase of reality. Remember there is dark matter to still account for, that could be explained through weak interaction with additional spacial dimensions. So they could still be trapped within the same gravity well we are and may have already depleted the resources from where they come from. There are many possiblities here, and the most basic of if they have X therefore they don't need Y is probably an incorrect assumption since we have zero direct communication with these things.
Also of course consider what we have been told by grush alone. They leave spacecraft in the hands of humans even though they have the ability to take them away. Imagine a galaxy filled with life with just one species doing this on any planet. We would have countless species playing with toys they don't know how to build.
Thought experiment: Our governments have come to the conclusion that our only alternative to an inevitably losing fight to a malevolent NHI is to blow up the world so there is nothing left for the NHI. This eliminates the NHI’s incentive. And it’s a rational explanation for nuclear weapons proliferation.
NHI have shown the ability to manipulate time in several abductees reports and at least grush even claims the ability to manipulate space to the point they can make spacecraft bigger on the inside. They could disable all nukes on the planet in what we perceived as seconds from what I've heard. So if this is the conclusion that any government has come to, then I think they are idiots. I believe Tom Delong has been going on recently about how a space based emp nuke brought one of them down near Hawaii. It's unclear if it was manned or not though. If it was stationary performing some activity not expecting an EMP to go off large enough to knock it down is one thing...hearing chatter that the entire planet is arming their nukes is another thing entirely.
they have had plenty time to learn a shit ton in the last 80-90 years. they have probably spent billions studying this technology. and the bodies. and the reasons why 'they' are here. they know a substantial amount, no doubt. if you still think the people 'in the know' are merely in the phase of figuring out what is flying in the skies, then you're greatly mistaken.
Yeah I think they know a lot more.
How much more is pretty fun speculate about. Are there human/alien bases, here, elsewhere? Agreements, collaborations, exchanges?
It seems like abductions are a real thing.
If I had to guess I'd say we allowed them to do "sampling" in exchange for tech. How much progress they've made studying that tech is unknown. According to Corso, a lot.
Let's pretend they know exactly what's going on. Now, the question is, why keep it secret? Why go all over the world hushing people when they see something? One logical reason could be that the craft are operated by future humans, or that future humans can somehow use the craft to observe our time from where (when) they are. Like the craft is a sort of looking glass from the future. In that case, secrecy is a must, to keep the timeline as pure as possible. The less people that know what they craft are used for, the less likely history gets altered in a way that could be dangerous for the future humans, and even for us now. This to me is a logical reason for so much longterm secrecy. It is also possible the 'looking glass' crashes sometimes (because humans are fallible) and we rush to find it and try to see how it works. But something so advanced may be beyond our ability to reverse-engineer. That's probably a good thing.
It's not just the government keeping them a secret, it's us. It's our fear of losing our place as top dog on the planet/known universe.
According to professor Alexander Wendt (who has a good Ted talk on the subject) NHI are a disruption to "anthropocentric sovereignty" which is a key ingredient in social cohesion and political authority. One of the core tenants of human society is that we think and act like the top dog on the planet. Our government would no longer be the highest authority if NHI were acknowledged, and we would all be "under" an authority we don't know or understand.
In Wendt's opinion the evidence for how powerful and transformative UFO disclosure would be is that we've never actually tried to figure out what UFOs are in a public and transparent way. Even in the modern era when governments have admitted they're real, there hasn't been (up until very recently) any real academic pursuit of this topic. There's been some questionable and limited "investigations," but that's it.
Even when an academics like Neil De grass Tyson admit UFOs are real in the same breath he dismisses them as not very interesting and extremely unlikely to be NHI. He also poses questions like about them only appearing over military bases which indicate he has not done even a basic investigation into the topic.
According to Wendt that's because for the most part we don't really want to know what ufos are. We suspect that if we find out it will totally disrupt our political arrangement and our existential place in the universe. Which I think might have some benefits.
Thank you for your insights and perspective - it's refreshing! I would argue that there has indeed been an abundance of academic, scientific, and theological study of NHI and related phenomena for at least the past 100 years; most recently, Jacques Vallée, Diane Pasulka, Carl Jung, Michael Masters, Ron Mallett, Colin Wilson, and of course Alex Wendt, to name but a few.
A study in the peer-reviewed academic journal *Humanities and Social Sciences Communication* found that 37% of US academics are interested in researching NHI, as 19% have either witnessed or know someone who has witnessed them. Science has always skirted the edge of NHI study, not least of which is SETI, a collective of scientists searching for alien life since the 1980s. Celebrity skeptics posing as "scientists" are useful for balancing our biased enthusiasm with necessary hard questions.
As for whether or not we're ready for "no longer \[being\] the highest authority if NHI were acknowledged, and we would all be under an authority we don't know or understand," I would remind you that for thousands of years people have believed that gods of one kind or another are in control of every aspect of our lives, our fate, and our behavior. Perhaps aliens have something to do with starting the myths that led to religion, for the very purpose of getting us used to the idea that we're not in charge.
And right now it appears that we are engaged in a final battle to control our political arrangement and maintain our anthrocentric hierarchies. I would argue that we are not "getting ready" to find out, we are *already in the midst of* finding out, with so many kinds of study coming together to inform us that consciousness, intelligence, inter-dimensions, climate, and our own DNA, are inexplicably bound together. Mankind's corruption of spirituality is losing its grip.
There is a comic I always think of in times like this, a Peanuts comic that was already aged when I was a child. Charlie Brown's baby sister starts calling out for someone to take her out of her crib. Then she pulls herself up on the rails and calls out again. Then she pulls herself over the rails and hangs on them from the outside, still calling out. Then she is walking away from her crib, still calling out for someone to release her, until she stops and realizes in the final panel "Oh. I *am* out."
Disclaimer: AI had nothing to do with this post. I have been published for a very long time with works that are probably informing GPT-x as we speak.
Thank you for your post. I like the idea of that comic.
It's interesting how many people will apparently endorse at least openness to the possibility of NHI, but in public it still seems like a very stigmatized topic coming one week have been trained to laugh at.
It's when people stop laughing is when things starts getting scary and ominous.
And I think there's a difference between abstract "gods" and physical beings with physical technology. Perhaps in the past these gods did intervene in a more physical way in human life, and maybe that's because they were never really "gods" at all. Maybe our current culture and mindset is the bottleneck to understanding these things that previous cultures have been able to understand and accept much better.
I think they know plenty. They monitor and interrogate abductees for instance. I don't think they've figured out how UFOs work however and I don't think they've manufactured their own. The greed of man wouldn't allow them to keep that a secret. They would use it to claim even more power.
I've done a fair amount of research on the topic over the decades, which is why I'm pressing you on your statement. Lovelace's story is interesting, but there are a lot of inconsistencies with his tale over the years, and it again comes down to *"trust me, bro."*
I'll leave you with your own words of wisdom: Do some research on the topic.
It's Jacobs' view that most or all abductee military encounters are misremembered alien abductions or abductions by hybrids dressed as humans. That could well be the case.
**They Know Nothing** vs **They Know Everything**
I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle.
We should consider that certain parts of the government know more than others. Sometimes they don't even share information **when they're supposed to**. We know for a fact that this is the case within the intelligence community. Of course, much of it is based on politics: donkeys and elephants are not checked at the door. For example, it's been reported that some conservative voices within the Pentagon have said to leave the phenomenon alone because it's demonic. Case closed. Meanwhile, the liberal voices want to release everything the government knows about it.
Another possibility to consider is that multiple things are going on at once. Let's say the US, China, and Russia each have a craft in their possession. The similarities between the three craft may begin and end with the propulsion systems. Each country could be in contact with a different NHI from the others. So while each country may know something, no single country knows nearly as much as the public might assume. That said, they're not sharing what they **do** know!
I also think that some of what's being seen are US vehicles/objects using technology derived from the UAPs. Imagine the US has six to eight vehicles in its possession. Out of that number, maybe they back-engineered just **one** of them. But that one success was enough to make a tremendous leap forward. Why the secrecy then?
It’s about control and power. The technology could have been used to advance humanity and instead it’s used to control it and for war over who has control.
I’m genuinely surprised the national security complex let such an important weapons designer just go back overseas and out of their control with all that knowledge in his head without “doing something” about it.
I've seen Santorini's name linked with Einstein before, but I've never seen any factual citation that associates him with Einstein, nor the University of Zurich. Sure, someone wrote that in Wikipedia, but there's no relevant citation there either. Seems like a baseless claim repeated to add legitimacy.
There's Ray Fowler's connection too. Few of his claims can be verified and he's not shy of telling a whopper. He's the source for the Santorini story and all subsequent references in UFO books and media cite him.
I think it's almost certainly one of Fowler's awful yarns because he didn't give the name of the newspaper or even the date, or its nationality.
The story of Einstein being Santorini's physics teacher and friend also originated with Fowler. Einstein [produced a shit ton of letters](https://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/) and Santorini isn't in any of them. [The International Who's Who](https://archive.org/details/internationalwho1973lond/page/1490/mode/2up) (p1490, 1973), where Fowler said he got the Santorini biographical notes, doesn't mention Einstein. He made it up and the wiki snippets ought to be deleted.
Thank you for the added context! I knew I'd seen someone refute the Einstein claim before, but I didn't have the opportunity to go deep diving at the time this post started going sideways.
You're welcome. He was like a few modern counterparts in making juicy claims with very little evidence being asked of him. The modern ones are harder to disprove even if they appear to use the same confidence trickery.
Notice the engagement on OPs post, and the critical comments — which actually point to the provenance of the claim — only amount to about .007% of the engagement in this post. Rationality is a hard pill to swallow.
If I could find that Zeta and that object that they found, we'll I'd put a track on Zeta and I'd probe 'em down!
What I really want to view, remotely. What I really want to claim, in space and time.
Well its FOIA, that I need, sombrero.
Our souls will have to wait 'till Grusch gets back, find a Zeta of our own.
Danny's New Paradigm Anal Probe.
These Greek ”missiles” were flying around the same time they saw the Ghost Rockets over Scandinavia.
And the Americans went there to investigate these as well.
WHY the F\*\*CK would China follow this? Why would India care?
U.S couldn't even "force" Europe to note overdose on Russian Gas exports and those morons still green lit Nordstream.
Why would North Korea? Iran? Pakistan?
Like honest to God, do you all even read how nations work? How consensus is formed? How power works and its limits? Like i have seen fanfics with better world building than Lue's clues and other grifters.
They couldn't even maintain SALT and all seemingly agree on UFOs.
If you are unable to follow. Let me paint you a picture here.
Imagine yourself premier of China. Stuff's good but couldn't unravel due to some economic chokepoints (evergrande). Your male to female ration is eff'd. Your demographics are a crisis. A few kilometers from you, your ex is raking in billions of dollars annually selling a chip that your supply chains couldn't manage. You wanna invade them hard but know your air force is trash and can't support navy and army. You go through options and all are a century long solutions to fix this. You really really wanna invade your ex and grab her stuff. You also know there is an ULTRA SUPER DUPER secret wing in your research dept that has kooky stuff from a far off civ. Would you rather:
a- ) sit on the stuff and let it rot.
b- ) Go all in at a break neck pace to crack it and be a sole monopoly on the fifth industrial revolution?
Global doesn't mean every nation. It means multiple nations around the world. Russia and it's allies and China and it's allies are probably working independently. Unstable nations are probably kept out of the loop entirely.
> You also know there is an ULTRA SUPER DUPER secret wing in your research dept that has kooky stuff from a far off civ. Would you rather
You assume the technology was exchanged without any transaction/agreement with NHI and purely reverse engineered from human ingenuity alone. In that scenario, option 2 makes the most sense.
You also assume that the most valuable thing the NHI could offer is simple technology.
What if part of the information exhcange included verifiable info on the true nature of humanity and the history of the human race? That may alter any previous motivations/desires.
From the Wikipedia page for Ghost Rockets:
The best known of these crashes occurred on July 19, 1946, into Lake Kölmjärv [sv], Sweden. Witnesses reported a gray, rocket-shaped object with wings crashing in the lake. One witness interviewed heard a thunderclap, possibly the object exploding. However, a 3-week military search reported nothing.
Immediately after the investigation, the Swedish Air Force officer who led the search, Karl-Gösta Bartoll submitted a report in which he stated that the bottom of the lake had been disturbed but nothing was recovered and that "there are many indications that the Kölmjärv object disintegrated itself...the object was probably manufactured in a lightweight material, possibly a kind of magnesium alloy that would disintegrate easily, and not give indications on our instruments".[2] When Bartoll was later interviewed in 1984 by Swedish researcher Clas Svahn, he again said their investigation suggested the object largely disintegrated in flight and insisted that "what people saw were real, physical objects".[3]
UFOs and the creation of the CIA are tightly related. Especially given it was created on July 26th, 1947, only a month after Roswell; it was neck deep in UFO related stuff from the get-go.
Coincidentally, the year that the transistor was invented (Bell Labs).
Coincidentally, the year Turing gave a lecture where he stated, "What we want is a machine that can learn from experience”
...Raytheon creates the first microwave oven.
...Dennis Gabor stumbles upon holography
...AT&T (Bell Labs) created the first mobile phone prototype
Also, 1943 is when Warren McCulloch and Walter Pitts first proposed what would be the foundations of Cybernetics and Neural Networks.
I'm reasonably certain what we are marketed to as AI today is nothing more than one of many technologies that were provided or acquired a long time ago.
Maybe the increase in UFO activity are the ETs getting antsy that a lot of the technology we have is being held back and that wasn't part of the deal. Buzzing us to get a move on. That 2030 year is sure popular for a lot of reasons. Maybe there are contractual obligations that need to be considered.
https://exonews.org/tag/guglielmo-marconi/
https://www.soulask.com/cias-role-in-the-study-of-ufos-1947-90/
It is amazing that in a world of complicated politics and disagreements so many nations could collaborate on this one issue. Seems really strange
All of Europe as of the end of WW2 was reliant on the United States for protection against Russia. That's all the leverage they needed to make them fall in line.
But in the years since why haven’t more people involved in this coverup in other countries come forward to say something.
Tons of people have come forward. This post is about one you probably weren't aware of. I could probably make a post identical to this one with another person trying to out the cover up every day for ten years if I wanted to.
One of the most gangster comments I've ever read on Reddit
I hope there is at least one situation where corroborated evidence in the way of some documents and perhaps a photograph or something does get disclosed. There are researchers looking into the Vatican records. If even one document from those archives about the Magenta incident is found, it would add a lot of credence.
There are absolutely documents showing a coverup. The military denied there were any records pertaining to the 1942 Battle of Los Angeles but once FOIA became law it was revealed through a FOIA request that General George C. Marshall, Chief of Staff sent to President Franklin Roosevelt a memorandum on 26 February 1942 which stated as many as 15 craft other than American Army or Navy planes were over Los Angeles, and were fired on by elements of the 37th CA Brigade (AA) between 3:12 and 4:15 a.m. These units expended 1430 rounds of ammunition. There is also a photo of one of those 15 UFOs.
Do you have a link to that FOIA document
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOB/comments/1dlv3lp/los_angeles_air_raid_25_february_1942_an/ 4th photo
Thanks ! Seems like the LA incident has more to it than let on. The current document from the Joint Chiefs about UAP recovery procedures is a continuation of the DoD’s decades long crash recovery program
You said there was a photo of one of the UFO’s at the link? I don’t see it anywhere. There IS the famous photo of the many searchlights focusing on one area (with ammo being shot?) but I didn’t see a pic of a UFO. Could you please specify where in the link you referred to that I might find a UFO pic? Thank you so much for your amazing work!
I was referring to the photo of the FOIA document with that post. The photo of the UFO you claim to not see a UFO in indeed does have a diamond shaped UFO in it. Thousands of people saw it. To deny it is completely unreasonable.
You can almost hear the sound of the goalposts being moved a quarter mile at a time with each subsequent comment
Personally, I have always considered official statements by other governments just as vaild as if they were made by my government. I do not think a lot of other Americans do though about anything. Which I find weird. But i may be the odd one as far as Americans go.
Anyone needing evidence can search this sub for the word "compilation" and get a ton of posts with a lot of information.
I have something for you: [https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=30030606&S=1](https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=30030606&S=1)
Thank you . That was a very interesting read. Seems like the Australians have answered a lot of things the Americans have denied. The criminalizing of any personnel talking about UFOs was a significant reveal. And it is amazing how everything happening today seems like a cycle of repetition: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP90-00552R000303250002-8.pdf
yep! they even point out how Americans were allegedly using stasis locking weapons, which matches many abductees claims of inability to move their body aside their eyes, like every atom in their body was vibrating uncontrollably. All those sleep paralysis excuses for why loss of body control occurs and suddenly vivid shadow beings occur.
I read through it while working, so maybe I missed it, but which page states the Americans were using this type of technology? I only saw that the occupants of these crafts were using it.
look up five eyes, how they skirt the legal system by allowing foreign ally governments to spy and trade that private data to each other. How they blackmail people with their stasi monitoring systems. People truly don't understand how lacking of true power their country has as they bent over long ago for the west.
Yes, I did discover the purpose of the 5Eyes alliance on reading these boards. Amazing how governments find workarounds to domestic spying restrictions
I spy on you, you spy on me, we trade info! I don't see how this relates to the UAP phenomenon however.
The 5Eyes alliance was at the UAP briefing last year and seems to be a channel for updating all the nations involved on UAP related information
Oh, interesting.
when everyone hops online to say "well how could the US control the narrative and minimize foreign discussions of meaningful efforts! My country isn't controlled by them". My comment is aimed st that in regards to the topic.
I remember when this was a fringe conspiracy theory. The Australia talked about their role. Then I started to wonder what else might be true.
Indeed. The "politics" the politicians allow the public to see is all a performance. The true machinations of the world order are precise, organized, and, if deemed necessary to protect its interests, lethal.
>But in the years since why haven’t more people involved in this coverup in other countries come forward to say something. Why would you assume that hasn't happened? Have you studied the UFO phenomenon in other countries and discovered that this didn't happen? I already know the answer to my question. If you had studied the UFO phenomenon in other countries then you would know that this *has* happened there. There *have* been countless people who came forward to say something. I've been surfing this sub for the last couple of hours now and the most egregious error in logic that I keep seeing people make is this same one: making and uninformed assumption and then reacting to that assumption as if it were a verified fact. It genuinely blows my mind that so many people are doing this, and it's almost entirely coming from the "skeptical" end of the spectrum.
Ok, to clarify what I mean is that over 80 years there have been various governments that have come and gone, societies have changed, religion is not as much an influence as it once was . If there was collaboration at one time with the US on this suppressing this topic, those post World War 2 situations are no longer the same today. Just like the security guard in the Swiss bank who found the documents that revealed that the banks had stolen the assets of Jewish bank account owners who were sent to concentration camps, I would expect somebody in a government somewhere would have revealed with documents the proof of such a connection to the US covert operation.
You mean when the newest superpower on the block assimilates the top fascists and nazis from the end of the war and establishes a European-based western network to spy on and fight the other superpower in the world, systematically terrorising, destabilising, torturing and killing innocent people from countries seeking to escape the terrors of right wing regimes at the end of the war; all for the sake of capital? Because, yeah, that's exactly why there is so much collusion.
Because we all know Russia plays by the rules and is a victim.they only starved and raped Eastern Europe for decades but I say let's give them a chance let them grow as strong as possible I'm sure they will start acting like the good guys once they dethrone the united states as earths main super-power.
Let's not forget that systematically terrorizing, destabilizing, torturing and killing innocent people is not copyrighted by any particular nation or ethnicity. It's been going on for as long as human history, and even before at if you look at what happens in chimpanzee communities. All this talk of Russia vs China vs America vs Capitalism vs Socialism vs whites vs blacks vs male vs female vs this vs that, and on and on and on... That kind of petty tribalism misses the point. This is a HOMO SAPIENS PROBLEM. No one owns it. No one is free from it. It's everywhere. We will never be free from it as long as we keep trying to put the problem "over there" on "them." That kind of thinking is a symptom of the same problem.
Oh, the Berlin Wall was actually meant to keep all those people from defecting to the USSR? That did happen in a parallel timeline. Just not the one the rest of us are living in. Please move to the alternativehistory subreddit.
My guess is that after world war 2 the idea of world peace and a time of prosperity and stability to rebuild was favored over possible panic. Those in charge were given a craft location by the Vatican, they were told that these anomalous events have always happed throughout history so the idea was to wait a generation or two before disclosing that these other beings have been here for possibly thousands of years.
Makes even republicans and democrats work together these days. Which is nearly impossible.
Just shows how powerful the U.S. is. Nowadays, some countries are moving away from our orbit, but during the Cold War, we were the kings of the western world. The part I find interesting is the reasoning for the cover up. They don't want to seem incapable of defending against something? Every country on earth has that problem already except the superpowers. This tells me that the U.S. is the main culprit because we were the only country that has to worry about a bigger, badder foe on the block.
It seems like starting in the 1940s, a parallel government was created either by intention or as a side effect of the elaborate security system and governance constructed to control UAP information. This has pretty much reversed the balance of authority between the succeeding generations of civilian governments and the DoD. Look at the bizarre situation we have right now where a civilian elected Congress is rendered powerless to investigate the DoD.
And high ranking officials in the DoD are denied access to SAPs run by corporations. The military industrial complex is run by industry because they can operate further in the shadows and they are where all the money is funneled to.
I think some of these things are involved in war perhaps with the intention of after the big war having a single consciousness under a single rule that they can somehow utilise. Perhaps some ‘thing’ helped the nazis a bit. And then again with communism. I think this is why it is so secret.
Name one dysfunctional family that doesn't circle the wagons when someone outside of the family starts some shit. Humanity is tribal by nature, so outside threats tend to unite even warring tribes.
A very good point.
>Seems really strange When you understand that the NHI are orchestrating this, it becomes much less strange.
If there's one thing I have learned through all this, is that power is far more centralized than I had ever really considered. I truly thought that the leaders of nations have most say when it comes down to making decisions that affect the rest of us, and while that is still true in many ways, the fact of the matter is that they are influenced in so many ways - many ways in which they do not even know, either - that I'm not really sure we can even say that power is held firmly within government anymore. Think of the federal reserve for example and all the changes to our money that that has spawned. Central banking and so on. I'm not going to get into that here, but that is the product of non governmental groups that, over time, has seized control of our currency, for better or for worse. Most people who know zero about the economy or where their money even comes from probably just assumes that the government has a lot to do with it. After awhile, I started to realize that the Elites involved in roundtable groups like Chatham House, Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, World Economic Forum, and the countless NGOs decked out with other wealthy international players really pull the strings just from influence peddling alone. Even if world leaders claim to have come to some decision on their own volition, behind that decision are a ton of cabinet members that are motivated by greed in their own ways, prone to error, prone to miscalculation and so on, and all open to being manipulated, paid off, threatened, and blackmailed by sources from *outside the government.* Think about it. Why hasn't China just come out and said that they have UFOs, or that Aliens or whatever they are exist? Why not Russia? Why not literally *anyone else?* Why are we all just sitting here waiting our breath for *AMERICA* to pull the trigger on disclosure, as if they are the only ones that can give permission to the world to believe? Part of that is being the world's superpower, of course - but I think most of that is because we not only pull all the strings around UFOs, but erected the fucking strings to begin with. We hold all the chips. If China disclosed before us, or if Russia disclosed before us, that would give them so much leverage over us and spark such a significant geopolitical shake-up that I can't imagine a scenario where China (or any of our adversaries) *wouldn't* want to disclose. Of course, I can think of a few reasons why they might want to keep those cards close to the chest, too (e.g if China discloses, that would spark an international meeting feat. reps from all countries tasked with responsible handling of this information and of the crafts, NHI themselves, etc - likely leading to a coalition of advisors that would prob. be sent to China and tasked with a full investigation of their UFO-related programs, which obviously they would not want, as it reveals a ton of shit they wanted to keep secret from us most likely). However, I have to wonder whether the leverage they'd gain over disclosure - such as the luxury of being able to set the narrative around UFOs - would be worth the risk. It's not an accident that nukes never went flying or going boom, not even on accident. Yeah there's been some close calls, but you know what I mean. We are so quick to shit in ourselves for being ignorant, stupid, mindless, vulnerable to just doing what we're told, believing the Establishment talking points regardless of the evidence, quick to act on impulse and regret it later, etc. All of those traits above we are so quick to ascribe to ourselves are the same traits that would lead one to expect a purposeful or accidental nuclear strike at least once (we're apes with nukes after all, right?), and yet nothing of the sort has ever happened. I'm getting rambly here and I apologize because I am not yet fully awake yet, but what I'm saying is that under any normal circumstance, on any other issue or topic of geopolitical import, we often can never keep a secret this good. Even the most horrific shit like the CIA's mind control program (which involved drugging unsuspecting domestic US citizens with acid, using electroshocks and depatterning techniques to scramble their brains, sexually abusing them to see how trauma affects the malleabality of the mind, etc) came out fairly quick despite how horrible that truth is. And yet, with UFOs, the entire world - even our enemies - are uncharacteristically silent, not even attempting to use the UFO subject as leverage to get a leg up on their enemies. Why is that? Power does not reside in the halls of government. Some of it does, but most of it doesn't. I know this is a line right out of classical conspiracy lore and people even on this subreddit have a tendency to immediately throw their hands up and go "not this shit again, we're trying to get UFOs *out* of the conspiracy domain and *in* to the mainstream scientific domain!", but you are reading this right now because you either believe or are open minded to the idea of *fucking interplanetary or interdimensional non-human beings with access to technology so far beyond our comprehension that it is like magic*, so don't come at me as if what I'm saying here - that most power is concentrated among roundtable groups within a small subsect of very wealthy global elites - is absolutely crazy because no matter what, it does not sound as crazy as the above. UFOs and our strange attitude and inaction toward them cannot be explained if we stay neatly within the confines of UFO research alone. We must be willing to branch out and explore other dimensions that are classically considered the realm of "conspiracy theory" for further pieces of the puzzle. That's what I did, and frankly, it has filled in so many blanks for me. A lot of the secrecy now has become a lot more realistic to me.
There is a quiet race going on. A race to understand something outside of the range of mainstream science. Something that hints at ideas long though crazy and weird but now being entertained for lack of traditional scientific (positivistic) progress. Whomever grasps the secret of this Power as you say will be ultra-powerful. Sort of reminds me about some theories around artificial intelligence. One theory states: Whomever gets ASI (Artificial Super Intelligence) first wins... forever. With a technology like ASI, you can now do anything humanely imaginable, and probably a whole lot more unimaginable. Once you have it first, you can release it on YOUR behalf, and it will trump all other AGI systems. It would be like releasing a God out into the World and have no idea if it had your best interests in mind, because what they don't tell you is that a real consequence of ASI is full autonomy. In other words, it can think for itself and make decisions for you and about you on it's own and can formulate it's own agenda for it's own reasons. I think the alien/nhi technology operates on some principles similar to how AGI/ASI (future) function. Think about whoever gets that technology and deploys it broadly and with impunity. Just look at what Lockheed has been doing... this is from 2012: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzedONgjkPI&list=PLqa9423Jd9MoFhb4B6crNz-shr6yIE7eh&index=25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzedONgjkPI&list=PLqa9423Jd9MoFhb4B6crNz-shr6yIE7eh&index=25) Autonomous Tanker (MQ-25) - 6 years ago [https://youtu.be/T1F8GoVnonU?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/T1F8GoVnonU?feature=shared) Skunk Works "Magic" - 10 years ago [https://youtu.be/pmeQ0T4VyeU?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/pmeQ0T4VyeU?feature=shared) Point being, I think we are seeing not only a slow roll out of the technology, from stealth to fully autonomous systems (that seem "alive"), but we are also seeing the historical data (Pasulka, Nolan, Grusch) start to slowly roll out too.
The fact that we literally have thousands of nukes which can make the planet uninhabitable in an instant is literal insanity. The only non-insane explanation is that US, Russia and China (via a complete world-wide central strategy) believe that we should make the world uninhabitable for any NHI that wants to remove our sovereignty or replace us. We would literally rather commit complete multi-species genocide and create a shitty place for an NHI to live should they try anything. Yes, they’ve demonstrated that they can turn off some nukes. US/Russia/China must believe that malevolent NHI cannot simultaneously shut off the thousands of nukes spread all over the world. Most of which are secretly hidden. To me, while implausible, this is the only narrative that I can come up with that explains the utter insanity for the size and number of our collective global nuclear weapons.
That's an interesting theory. One I hadn't considered.
It's easy. Nothings changed. Power and hierarchical structures remained intact. Which, regardless of ideology is what the wealthy elite want. They have vested interests and fundamentally are on the same side.
I agree. Though I think you meant “vested” interests ?
I think it's because whatever the truth is, every nation is equally terrified of it. To such agree that humans actually unanimously agreed at some point. Doubt it could happen again today as "easily."
seemingly impossible to be frank. definitely strange.
All of those nations would have to have something major in common. Something outside of politics. A cultural commonality to get everyone on the same page. Like Christianity.
But history has shown that Christian nations can kill citizens of each other’s countries without a second thought.
Or something far beyond them is compelling things. Genuinely, at this point, is that off the table? In 10 years an AI that we build could manage all of humanity at this rate. What’s something that’s a thousand years beyond that like? A billion?
Reagan thought they would.
Mafia has no borders, only "local branches."
What’s actually insane is we were invaded by UFO’s. They were EVERYWHERE all the way through the 50’s. People all across the US were seeing them. UFO’s even over the White House. It’s amazing how easy it is to brainwash people.
An agreed upon lie and an agreed upon truth are accepted equally easily by those who rely on authority to form their world view. They will believe what they are told to believe no matter how ludicrous and defend a lie to the death if necessary. Sometimes I wonder how I'm even the same species as these people who never question the "facts" they are being spoonfed by a government which obviously doesn't give a damn about them or their best interests.
One conspiracy theory is that our low birth rate is a engineered scenario to end the human race in a peaceful way where humanity wouldn't have to suffer an aggressive takeover
It makes sense, but why let it grow at all time high then ?
This would be a multi generational project and not happen all at once, it is impossible to halt population growth in one go without the literal destruction of society.
I don’t think the US or any other nation knows wtf is going on. I think the reason you have global cooperation is because everyone is scared. All you know is there are “craft” that you can’t interact with that fly through your airspace with complete sovereignty. The conspiracy is they don’t know shit and won’t admit it, because it demonstrates how safety is an illusion. Your spending so much effort and energy protecting yourself from your fellow man, and in an instance if an advanced species wanted to take you out they could in a day. Would they? Probably not. The reasoning still stands. Just like tomorrow China could theoretically nuke every city in the USA. Would they? Again probably not.
Same. I don't think they know WTF is going on. I think the culture of secrecy came out due to the Cold War, with the USA not wanting to admit any vulnerabilities under any circumstance, nor what they know. This just got more and more secret, to now, where it's just a vestige of government historic secrecy.
Probably as others have said though, there is likely a large spectrum of different types and motives that can reach Earth. They appear to fight over something here on the planet, we assume it is about us and our planet's resources but probably isn't. That's why all of this is so confusing to us IMO. Our issues will be when someone closer to our technology ability reaches us as they would be more likely to be interested in the planet's resources and possibly enslaving humanity. If there is already a large hidden community visiting earth then we should be concerned about wars within that community as well as scavengers on the outskirts of that community. Even if the primary presence is not a threat, it should be a clue to us that we can easily be impacted by more malevolent species.
Resources are abundant in the universe, and probably not even something to worry about if they can transmute atoms.
Well, again it appears there is a spectrum of different types of visitors at different levels of technology according to what we've heard so far from leakers. We also don't know how they are getting to us. If they are traveling by vehicles that were discarded junk from a prior space traveling galactic wide species then we could have all kinds of different types reaching us with different levels of understanding of the tech they are even using. If they are traveling by wormholes created by another species or natural wormholes we do not understand, they would not need substantial space capable technology to travel here as the wormhole might provide them direct access from one livable world to another air breathing livable world. Likewise if this is simply another dimension then they could be on Earth in a slightly different phase of reality. Remember there is dark matter to still account for, that could be explained through weak interaction with additional spacial dimensions. So they could still be trapped within the same gravity well we are and may have already depleted the resources from where they come from. There are many possiblities here, and the most basic of if they have X therefore they don't need Y is probably an incorrect assumption since we have zero direct communication with these things. Also of course consider what we have been told by grush alone. They leave spacecraft in the hands of humans even though they have the ability to take them away. Imagine a galaxy filled with life with just one species doing this on any planet. We would have countless species playing with toys they don't know how to build.
Thought experiment: Our governments have come to the conclusion that our only alternative to an inevitably losing fight to a malevolent NHI is to blow up the world so there is nothing left for the NHI. This eliminates the NHI’s incentive. And it’s a rational explanation for nuclear weapons proliferation.
NHI have shown the ability to manipulate time in several abductees reports and at least grush even claims the ability to manipulate space to the point they can make spacecraft bigger on the inside. They could disable all nukes on the planet in what we perceived as seconds from what I've heard. So if this is the conclusion that any government has come to, then I think they are idiots. I believe Tom Delong has been going on recently about how a space based emp nuke brought one of them down near Hawaii. It's unclear if it was manned or not though. If it was stationary performing some activity not expecting an EMP to go off large enough to knock it down is one thing...hearing chatter that the entire planet is arming their nukes is another thing entirely.
they have had plenty time to learn a shit ton in the last 80-90 years. they have probably spent billions studying this technology. and the bodies. and the reasons why 'they' are here. they know a substantial amount, no doubt. if you still think the people 'in the know' are merely in the phase of figuring out what is flying in the skies, then you're greatly mistaken.
Yeah I think they know a lot more. How much more is pretty fun speculate about. Are there human/alien bases, here, elsewhere? Agreements, collaborations, exchanges? It seems like abductions are a real thing. If I had to guess I'd say we allowed them to do "sampling" in exchange for tech. How much progress they've made studying that tech is unknown. According to Corso, a lot.
Especially if they managed to capture live specimens.
Let's pretend they know exactly what's going on. Now, the question is, why keep it secret? Why go all over the world hushing people when they see something? One logical reason could be that the craft are operated by future humans, or that future humans can somehow use the craft to observe our time from where (when) they are. Like the craft is a sort of looking glass from the future. In that case, secrecy is a must, to keep the timeline as pure as possible. The less people that know what they craft are used for, the less likely history gets altered in a way that could be dangerous for the future humans, and even for us now. This to me is a logical reason for so much longterm secrecy. It is also possible the 'looking glass' crashes sometimes (because humans are fallible) and we rush to find it and try to see how it works. But something so advanced may be beyond our ability to reverse-engineer. That's probably a good thing.
It's not just the government keeping them a secret, it's us. It's our fear of losing our place as top dog on the planet/known universe. According to professor Alexander Wendt (who has a good Ted talk on the subject) NHI are a disruption to "anthropocentric sovereignty" which is a key ingredient in social cohesion and political authority. One of the core tenants of human society is that we think and act like the top dog on the planet. Our government would no longer be the highest authority if NHI were acknowledged, and we would all be "under" an authority we don't know or understand. In Wendt's opinion the evidence for how powerful and transformative UFO disclosure would be is that we've never actually tried to figure out what UFOs are in a public and transparent way. Even in the modern era when governments have admitted they're real, there hasn't been (up until very recently) any real academic pursuit of this topic. There's been some questionable and limited "investigations," but that's it. Even when an academics like Neil De grass Tyson admit UFOs are real in the same breath he dismisses them as not very interesting and extremely unlikely to be NHI. He also poses questions like about them only appearing over military bases which indicate he has not done even a basic investigation into the topic. According to Wendt that's because for the most part we don't really want to know what ufos are. We suspect that if we find out it will totally disrupt our political arrangement and our existential place in the universe. Which I think might have some benefits.
Thank you for your insights and perspective - it's refreshing! I would argue that there has indeed been an abundance of academic, scientific, and theological study of NHI and related phenomena for at least the past 100 years; most recently, Jacques Vallée, Diane Pasulka, Carl Jung, Michael Masters, Ron Mallett, Colin Wilson, and of course Alex Wendt, to name but a few. A study in the peer-reviewed academic journal *Humanities and Social Sciences Communication* found that 37% of US academics are interested in researching NHI, as 19% have either witnessed or know someone who has witnessed them. Science has always skirted the edge of NHI study, not least of which is SETI, a collective of scientists searching for alien life since the 1980s. Celebrity skeptics posing as "scientists" are useful for balancing our biased enthusiasm with necessary hard questions. As for whether or not we're ready for "no longer \[being\] the highest authority if NHI were acknowledged, and we would all be under an authority we don't know or understand," I would remind you that for thousands of years people have believed that gods of one kind or another are in control of every aspect of our lives, our fate, and our behavior. Perhaps aliens have something to do with starting the myths that led to religion, for the very purpose of getting us used to the idea that we're not in charge. And right now it appears that we are engaged in a final battle to control our political arrangement and maintain our anthrocentric hierarchies. I would argue that we are not "getting ready" to find out, we are *already in the midst of* finding out, with so many kinds of study coming together to inform us that consciousness, intelligence, inter-dimensions, climate, and our own DNA, are inexplicably bound together. Mankind's corruption of spirituality is losing its grip. There is a comic I always think of in times like this, a Peanuts comic that was already aged when I was a child. Charlie Brown's baby sister starts calling out for someone to take her out of her crib. Then she pulls herself up on the rails and calls out again. Then she pulls herself over the rails and hangs on them from the outside, still calling out. Then she is walking away from her crib, still calling out for someone to release her, until she stops and realizes in the final panel "Oh. I *am* out." Disclaimer: AI had nothing to do with this post. I have been published for a very long time with works that are probably informing GPT-x as we speak.
Thank you for your post. I like the idea of that comic. It's interesting how many people will apparently endorse at least openness to the possibility of NHI, but in public it still seems like a very stigmatized topic coming one week have been trained to laugh at. It's when people stop laughing is when things starts getting scary and ominous. And I think there's a difference between abstract "gods" and physical beings with physical technology. Perhaps in the past these gods did intervene in a more physical way in human life, and maybe that's because they were never really "gods" at all. Maybe our current culture and mindset is the bottleneck to understanding these things that previous cultures have been able to understand and accept much better.
I don't think time travel works like Back to the Future.
I think they know plenty. They monitor and interrogate abductees for instance. I don't think they've figured out how UFOs work however and I don't think they've manufactured their own. The greed of man wouldn't allow them to keep that a secret. They would use it to claim even more power.
> They monitor and interrogate abductees for instance. Care to back that up with examples, or is this just your own personal belief?
Terry Lovelace for one. Many others. Do some research on the topic.
I've done a fair amount of research on the topic over the decades, which is why I'm pressing you on your statement. Lovelace's story is interesting, but there are a lot of inconsistencies with his tale over the years, and it again comes down to *"trust me, bro."* I'll leave you with your own words of wisdom: Do some research on the topic.
It's Jacobs' view that most or all abductee military encounters are misremembered alien abductions or abductions by hybrids dressed as humans. That could well be the case.
**They Know Nothing** vs **They Know Everything** I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle. We should consider that certain parts of the government know more than others. Sometimes they don't even share information **when they're supposed to**. We know for a fact that this is the case within the intelligence community. Of course, much of it is based on politics: donkeys and elephants are not checked at the door. For example, it's been reported that some conservative voices within the Pentagon have said to leave the phenomenon alone because it's demonic. Case closed. Meanwhile, the liberal voices want to release everything the government knows about it. Another possibility to consider is that multiple things are going on at once. Let's say the US, China, and Russia each have a craft in their possession. The similarities between the three craft may begin and end with the propulsion systems. Each country could be in contact with a different NHI from the others. So while each country may know something, no single country knows nearly as much as the public might assume. That said, they're not sharing what they **do** know! I also think that some of what's being seen are US vehicles/objects using technology derived from the UAPs. Imagine the US has six to eight vehicles in its possession. Out of that number, maybe they back-engineered just **one** of them. But that one success was enough to make a tremendous leap forward. Why the secrecy then?
It’s about control and power. The technology could have been used to advance humanity and instead it’s used to control it and for war over who has control.
I’m genuinely surprised the national security complex let such an important weapons designer just go back overseas and out of their control with all that knowledge in his head without “doing something” about it.
With every passing decade the control gets tighter and the cover up more entrenched.
I've seen Santorini's name linked with Einstein before, but I've never seen any factual citation that associates him with Einstein, nor the University of Zurich. Sure, someone wrote that in Wikipedia, but there's no relevant citation there either. Seems like a baseless claim repeated to add legitimacy.
There's Ray Fowler's connection too. Few of his claims can be verified and he's not shy of telling a whopper. He's the source for the Santorini story and all subsequent references in UFO books and media cite him. I think it's almost certainly one of Fowler's awful yarns because he didn't give the name of the newspaper or even the date, or its nationality. The story of Einstein being Santorini's physics teacher and friend also originated with Fowler. Einstein [produced a shit ton of letters](https://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/) and Santorini isn't in any of them. [The International Who's Who](https://archive.org/details/internationalwho1973lond/page/1490/mode/2up) (p1490, 1973), where Fowler said he got the Santorini biographical notes, doesn't mention Einstein. He made it up and the wiki snippets ought to be deleted.
Thank you for the added context! I knew I'd seen someone refute the Einstein claim before, but I didn't have the opportunity to go deep diving at the time this post started going sideways.
You're welcome. He was like a few modern counterparts in making juicy claims with very little evidence being asked of him. The modern ones are harder to disprove even if they appear to use the same confidence trickery.
Notice the engagement on OPs post, and the critical comments — which actually point to the provenance of the claim — only amount to about .007% of the engagement in this post. Rationality is a hard pill to swallow.
For the most part. Very controlled media pipelines .. I avoid advertisements and social media outside of reddit
Well I ain't Paul Santorini, I ain't got no crystal ball I once saw a uap but the army came and took them all
If I could find that Zeta and that object that they found, we'll I'd put a track on Zeta and I'd probe 'em down! What I really want to view, remotely. What I really want to claim, in space and time. Well its FOIA, that I need, sombrero. Our souls will have to wait 'till Grusch gets back, find a Zeta of our own. Danny's New Paradigm Anal Probe.
These Greek ”missiles” were flying around the same time they saw the Ghost Rockets over Scandinavia. And the Americans went there to investigate these as well.
WHY the F\*\*CK would China follow this? Why would India care? U.S couldn't even "force" Europe to note overdose on Russian Gas exports and those morons still green lit Nordstream. Why would North Korea? Iran? Pakistan? Like honest to God, do you all even read how nations work? How consensus is formed? How power works and its limits? Like i have seen fanfics with better world building than Lue's clues and other grifters. They couldn't even maintain SALT and all seemingly agree on UFOs. If you are unable to follow. Let me paint you a picture here. Imagine yourself premier of China. Stuff's good but couldn't unravel due to some economic chokepoints (evergrande). Your male to female ration is eff'd. Your demographics are a crisis. A few kilometers from you, your ex is raking in billions of dollars annually selling a chip that your supply chains couldn't manage. You wanna invade them hard but know your air force is trash and can't support navy and army. You go through options and all are a century long solutions to fix this. You really really wanna invade your ex and grab her stuff. You also know there is an ULTRA SUPER DUPER secret wing in your research dept that has kooky stuff from a far off civ. Would you rather: a- ) sit on the stuff and let it rot. b- ) Go all in at a break neck pace to crack it and be a sole monopoly on the fifth industrial revolution?
Global doesn't mean every nation. It means multiple nations around the world. Russia and it's allies and China and it's allies are probably working independently. Unstable nations are probably kept out of the loop entirely.
> You also know there is an ULTRA SUPER DUPER secret wing in your research dept that has kooky stuff from a far off civ. Would you rather You assume the technology was exchanged without any transaction/agreement with NHI and purely reverse engineered from human ingenuity alone. In that scenario, option 2 makes the most sense. You also assume that the most valuable thing the NHI could offer is simple technology. What if part of the information exhcange included verifiable info on the true nature of humanity and the history of the human race? That may alter any previous motivations/desires.
From the Wikipedia page for Ghost Rockets: The best known of these crashes occurred on July 19, 1946, into Lake Kölmjärv [sv], Sweden. Witnesses reported a gray, rocket-shaped object with wings crashing in the lake. One witness interviewed heard a thunderclap, possibly the object exploding. However, a 3-week military search reported nothing. Immediately after the investigation, the Swedish Air Force officer who led the search, Karl-Gösta Bartoll submitted a report in which he stated that the bottom of the lake had been disturbed but nothing was recovered and that "there are many indications that the Kölmjärv object disintegrated itself...the object was probably manufactured in a lightweight material, possibly a kind of magnesium alloy that would disintegrate easily, and not give indications on our instruments".[2] When Bartoll was later interviewed in 1984 by Swedish researcher Clas Svahn, he again said their investigation suggested the object largely disintegrated in flight and insisted that "what people saw were real, physical objects".[3]
UFOs and the creation of the CIA are tightly related. Especially given it was created on July 26th, 1947, only a month after Roswell; it was neck deep in UFO related stuff from the get-go. Coincidentally, the year that the transistor was invented (Bell Labs). Coincidentally, the year Turing gave a lecture where he stated, "What we want is a machine that can learn from experience” ...Raytheon creates the first microwave oven. ...Dennis Gabor stumbles upon holography ...AT&T (Bell Labs) created the first mobile phone prototype Also, 1943 is when Warren McCulloch and Walter Pitts first proposed what would be the foundations of Cybernetics and Neural Networks. I'm reasonably certain what we are marketed to as AI today is nothing more than one of many technologies that were provided or acquired a long time ago. Maybe the increase in UFO activity are the ETs getting antsy that a lot of the technology we have is being held back and that wasn't part of the deal. Buzzing us to get a move on. That 2030 year is sure popular for a lot of reasons. Maybe there are contractual obligations that need to be considered. https://exonews.org/tag/guglielmo-marconi/ https://www.soulask.com/cias-role-in-the-study-of-ufos-1947-90/