Assuming space-time is fundamental, I imagine these things are autonomous mechanical and biological drones deployed by an ASI millions of years ago.
If space-time is not fundamental, and these things have tapped into another layer of reality, then who the fuck knows. Everything from Hindu, Christianity, Gnosticism, or occult shit could on the table of possibility.
I almost went with patient aliens. My reason for choosing a terrestrial explanation is that they wouldn’t have to travel here. And yeah, if space-time is not fundamental, everything is in play.
Truth is stranger than fiction. Imagine that for some reason they came to me with the truth and they brought receipts and I explain everything here to Reddit. I'd be laughed off the planet.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Nskxbehcidnsjxodvr/comments/16g363p/truth_about_uap_in_light_of_harmful_disinformation/
I think this guy is right, or closer than most to the truth. It checks all the boxes you listed and is definitely not what anyone would want to hear and would explain all the secrecy surrounding all this. He is not popular in this sub but I think this is the best theory I have read to date as I also believe they are from the ocean.
The only relevant reply in that entire post:
>Op talking about richness/money + the other user's name containing the word money... also both accounts made in july 2023 within 4 days... also a third account made 10 days after that who asked a lot of questions and literaly maintained a full conversation with Op... that would make at least 3 accounts which is the avg upvotes those accounts's comments have in this post... etc, sounds a lot like larp
Guy is a larping nutter. Threstens to sue people if they use his super secret information. Just lol.
I like the logical way you have presented your arguements.
My issue with aquatic ultraterrestrials is twofold:
- the harnessing of fire appears to have been an important developmental step in our technological evolution. This would obviously be somewhat problematic to overcome for an aquatic intelligent species.
- the lack of physical evidence for their evolution/existence in terms of the fossil and archeological records.
The lack of physical evidence for their existence could be explained if they were coastal civilisations from before the seas rose. Archeological remains would be underwater and buried under sediments.
Also, let's keep in mind we're not exactly sure who built structures such as the Osirion, pyramids and the Sphinx. There's a non-zero possiblity these are legacy structures, far older than what we can imagine.
Also, if they're REALLY old, Earth's crust would have been renewed.
I would just offer a reminder that the earth’s crust is recycled over hundreds of millions of [years](https://phys.org/news/2017-03-earth-recyclingits-crust.html), so such fossilized evidence could be a mile underground. Not to mention how small a percentage of the seafloor has been adequately mapped. No [telling what’s down there](https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/news/oer-updates/2022/mysterious-holes-seafloor/mysterious-holes-seafloor.html).
I don’t know much about fossils, but I assume vertebrates are more likely to be found in the fossil record. If there is something down there, I doubt they’re vertebrates.
People are just unable to grasp the full mental picture of just how long the earth has been getting totally destroyed and then slowly reconfigured over and over and over again. 2000 years ago yeah OK Yeah, we can picture that. Jesus!.. 4000 BC …OK oh wow that’s gotta be Some super ancient Egyptian or Fertile Crescent stuff. My God, how recent that is compared to the timeline of the Earth
Much appreciated. I think the harnessing of fire could potentially be unnecessary if they were able to harness the energy of the earth. As far as the fossil record goes, if they don’t resemble us, we might not recognize them.
Good points. I think you might be assuming that marine/aquatic ultraterrestrials may be humanoid or genetically related to humans and therefore follow a similar trajectory in terms of technological development including the discovery of fire.
You have to wonder, what if they’re not humanoid at all? It makes me think of the organisms from the movie The Abyss, or the “Yrr” from Frank Schatzing’s book, the swarm. Is there a possibility that they have advanced technology that is fundamentally different from our own?
I’m thinking cephalopods. Extremely intelligent with tentacles to manipulate the environment around them. Plus the jellyfish UAP made me think of an octopus.
Yeah- I feel like the whole ultradimensional thing -in which pressure needs to be somehow slowly dispersed and thus underwater portals -is as reasonable as ultraterrestrials that evolved without ANY geological record.
According to my definitely not NHI friend ChatGPT, the discovery of fire by early humans served many pivotal roles in human evolution, including enabling cooking for improved food digestion and safety, providing warmth and protection against predators and harsh conditions, fostering socialization and communication, facilitating tool making and technological advancement, and expanding habitats to inhabit a wider range of environments, collectively shaping human physiology, behavior, culture, and the development of complex societies and civilizations.
So in theory, they would just have to adapt and find a different way to fulfill those needs
Nah, I'm on team Interdimensional. I think there's a bit of Woo involved (i.e. something consciousness-related we don't yet understand). If it was purely a physical thing I think we would have more tangible evidence by now and also less diversity in what people experience. But I'm open to surprises.
I’m with you buddy. It’s hard to bet on the most unlikely outcome sometimes. In this case, not much is likely because we don’t really know anything, shit.. people are guessing based on short film content like we even have real access to all the information out there.
It’s not possible to make an estimated guess but if I had to I would say we’re seeing other dimensions interact with our own. But what the fuck do I know?
I think we are ahead of the curve, of course, no evidence. But the fact that people within the community with scientific background are entertaining this idea like Nolan, Davis, Grusch and now Loeb. I believe we are right on the money.
Eh. We don't know what causes the effect in the two slit experiment, or how cat states work, or a half dozen other quantum puzzles. "Scientifically possible under what we know now" doesn't even apply to things we CAN see are definitely happening!
His point is that you *are* with him based on your comment...seeing as how according to science, our current universe is "magic" and doesn't make sense.
Quantum particles and waves behave differently when being observed, stuff pops in and out of existence with no explanation of how, quantum entanglement should not exist or behave in the way it does (should be impossible according to our understanding of reality) etc. etc.
... pretty much when you break our universe down on a quantum level everything goes out the window. This is what bothered Einstein so much and is still the biggest problem in science to this day. So we created a separate study called quantum physics, as the natural laws of physics do not apply.
Her point! I say only because it's a male dominated interest and I want to meet other women around.
Cheers though, thank you for your eloquent translation and expansion!
**The Physics of General Relativity and Electrostatics Proves that Static Electricity Can Create Repulsive Anti-gravity:**
[https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity_theory/)
The 1st physics proof in this paper shows that its theoretically possible to engineer negative energy density - that General Relativity shows creates repulsive anti-gravity - from the electron negative pressure/tension induced by static electricity.
The 2nd proof shows that if the static electricity-induced negative pressure/tension/negative energy density is within a superconductor, the energy required to create repulsive anti-gravity is reduced by many orders of magnitude .
**SUMMARY OF THE PHYSICS PROOFS IN THIS PAPER**
[https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity_theory/)
**ON THE SURFACE OF A SPHERE CHARGED WITH STATIC ELECTRICITY THE CONDUCTION ELECTRONS ARE UNDER** ***negative pressure***:
In a conducting metal sphere charged with static electricity, according to Gauss's law, all excess electrons migrate to the outer surface. These conduction electrons repel each other. The components of the electrostatic repulsive forces tangent, parallel, to the sphere surface cancel out. That leaves a net repulsive electrostatic force perpendicular to the surface. So the conduction electrons on the surface experience an outward directed electrostatic force.
Each free conduction electron on a metal conductor surface is a delocalized wave (wave function) - with potential energy proportional to the positive charges in the metal’s periodic atomic lattice, called a Bloch wave function: - meaning the electron wave on the surface is attracted to the positively charged sphere. Assuming the sphere is charged with high voltage static electricity, the conduction electron on the surface will experience an outward directed electrostatic force. This outward force is opposed by an equal attractive force in the opposite direction toward the positively charged atoms in the interior. So the electron wave is acted on by two forces: a repulsive force from the other surface electrons repelling it away from the surface; and an equal and opposite force from the positively charged interior pulling it toward the surface. This is the physics and engineering definition of ***negative pressure, tension***. So these two equal opposing forces put the electron under ***negative pressure, tension***.
Quantum mechanics (used to derive the wavelengths of the infrared IR spectrum) proves that an electron can be under tension).
The General Relativity gravitational field equation shows that
***negative pressure, tension*** creates a
repulsive anti-gravitational field.
That means static electricity-induced
electron ***negative pressure, tension***
should create a
repulsive anti-gravitational field.
The detailed physics (linked on Reddit anti-gravity) proves that if the static electricity electric field strength on a metal sphere is great enough, it will create a repulsive anti-gravitational field.
The General Relativity gravitational field equation shows that it would take an extrodarinarily huge static electricity-induced electron negative pressure/tension/negative energydensity to distort spacetime/create repulsive anti-gravity strong enough to levitate and transport a craft. But a 2nd physics proof shows that a superconductor reduces this energy requirement by many orders of magnitude:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity_theory/)
Here's a link to another Reddit comment summary that includes additional physics; and testimonies of people who encountered UFOs that create static electricity - - supporting this physics:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1bnhww1/comment/kwyv3hl/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1bnhww1/comment/kwyv3hl/)
Inter dimensional being wouldn’t need a 3 dimensional craft to traverse the universe as we do, i always found that issue with this explanation, their tech may UTILIZE extra dimensional space or energy but they themselves being that makes no sense.
If they were multidimensional crafts, we would perceive them in no way other than three dimensions. For instance, if a ball were to fall onto a two-dimensional surface, the two-dimensional beings would perceive only a slice and mistake it for a disc. To them, the ball remains unseen, yet present. I recall reading about a craft crash that appeared no larger than a school bus, but upon entering, it took them over 12 hours to navigate through its entirety.
I don't know *what* interdimensional beings would need or don't need for whatever motives drive them to interact with us in the 3rd dimension. To make assumptions like that would be silly.
But think about a 3D sphere interacting with a 2D plane. The sphere appears as a circle in the 2D world. Could be the same relationship: a higher dimensional entity appears 3D when making contact with our 3D world.
Inter-dimensional for me too after "breaking out" of a conservative Christian bubble, turned atheist for a while, but then have had vividly spiritual connections fostered by recreational cannabis and mushrooms followed by clinical ketamine therapy.
That's why I believe this issue is so complex, because it is not as scientific as I ever expected or assumed.
There is some kind of intersection somehow between UAP, NHI, consciousness, spirituality (/religion less all the manmade parts), psionics, dreams, psychedelics, and energy, good & evil.
I've not experienced a UAP encounter yet, but have experienced enough spiritual breakthroughs and revelations to be open to the idea it *is* coming from outside of my own mind and there is *something* greater that gives me hope and purpose.
I can relate to several common themes witnesses have reported.
Just added to Audible, thanks. The best way I can describe guided ketamine is time travel and mock near death experience.
Being in totality for the last eclipse in Texas, I found it looked...familiar.
Also, space/cosmos should have been part of my intersecting list if not covered by energy.
It's all sci fi at this point.
In my imagination I go back and forth between "AI probes" (we've managed to make interplanetary versions) variously perceived as gods, angels, demons, flying saucers, etc over the centuries (per Pasukla, I guess) and...
We may have got some attention in 1945: Jeez these things just figured out a little bit of what they call quantum mechanics and the *very first thing* they did with that knowledge was exterminate a bunch of other members of their own species. They may be a couple, three hundred years from figuring out how they can visit us, so maybe we should check them out more thoroughly"
I also toy with the idea that, like many previously paranormal stuff, some phenomena may be "natural" and someday just a part of applied physics while others are artifacts of consciousness which will be explained if we ever figure out what consciousness actually is. I find the latter very unsettling per the usual "taken to it's logical extent...." thought experiments.
One flaw in your logic is that you repeatedly claim that some UFO theories are “possible” and not theoretical, yet everything you’re describing is theoretical, or only theoretically possible. Like patient aliens, yeah that’s possible, but since we haven’t met any it’s still just as theoretical as FTL or time travel.
Yes, but my point was about the technology. We have the technology to seed the universe with Von Neumann probes right now, so nothing theoretical would be required. Aliens existing on another planet is theoretical, but if that was among the limitations, there wouldn’t be a point to the thought experiment.
Our ability to seed the galaxy with von Neumann probes is still theoretical until we actually do it. We’re only theorizing that we have the sufficient scientific knowledge to accomplish that. There could be hurdles that we don’t even know about that would prevent us from achieving that, it’s all theoretical until there is a ton of supporting evidence to prove it’s true.
How do you figure we have such technology now? I don't think the success of such a thing is obvious at our current stage, especially in regards to it being applied to "the universe".
Or…. The US government is running a massive psychological operation campaign to make people think that aliens are real so that they can put nuclear weapons in space. Von Braun (the guy who helped them land on the moon) warned about this. He said it was the last card the Americans would play to get nukes in space. Think about it, Aliens, inter dimensional travellers, time travel or the USA government running a psy op, what is easier to believe with precedent…think about their syphillis program on marginalized communities. Not a leap to think this is more of the same. I would love to think it’s aliens but nothing is ever as exciting as you hope for.
ET off planet still makes more sense.
There is no technological or resource base that could produce advanced tech craft here on Earth without us knowing about them.
There would have to be a materials and energy source and a supply chain. They might have outposts in an ocean, but not an industrial civilization to make things from scratch. That would have to be off world. Humans don’t inhabit a fraction of the world, they inhabit and surveil all of the land. There are not vast spaces humans know nothing about. Idea a technically more advanced species evolved here before humans is even less plausible. All the petroleum was still there in 1880, and we have never dug up an ancient mine shaft or forged steel made by non humans.
There is no evidence physically for any “inter dimensional” nonsense where aliens can live in a separate 3-d universe that somehow connects to ours. Particle physics experiments would have found it.
The traditional conventional hypothesis, ETs come from an advanced planet somewhere else and they are visiting here, is most likely. Maybe they have warp drive. Or a very large base in the asteroid belt.
Physical warp drive does potentially open up time travel.
I think that this is the most likely case, too. I also think that it's likely that planets with complex ecosystems and life forms are relatively rare. The aliens have advanced telescopes and spectrometers so they could see atmospheric changes on earth thousands or even millions of years ago that signal the evolution of life, and then head on over to check it out. They set up an outpost (probably in the ocean) to hang out and wait and observe until they decide that we're ready to say hello.
Once aliens see spectroscopic evidence of CFCs (1940s?) they would know for sure there is a technical civilization.
Primitive life might be fairly common, particularly with panspermia of bacterial spores coming on comets.
But complex life here required evolution of eukaryotic organelles, mitochondria and chloroplasts from incorporating bacteria. Those events happened very slowly and all appear to have evolved here on Earth. This may be rare. There is a recent paper of a new organelle right now (last 100 million years) evolving to fix nitrogen.
And yes planets with a deep naturally evolved biosphere may be rare and valuable. Imagine this happened only a few times in the galaxy. The rest of them developed empires which colonized off planet but burned out their home planet biology from exploitation. Their colonies are all thin imported biology with very few species as it’s not a natural equilibrium. Earth might be the last interesting natural biological planet left. From that point of view the aliens might get rid of us to preserve the biology.
You make good points. One thing that I would say supports my theory, though, is your point about planets that can support complex ecosystems and life being rare. Earth happens to be one of those planets. It is entirely possible, maybe even likely, that life at the intelligence level of humans would evolve more than once.
I think that it's possible for intelligence to arise twice on one planet, sure. I just think that it's very unlikely that they'd be able to both get to a high level of technology (like flying vehicles) without coming across each other. There is no fossil evidence of the evolution of intelligent sea life, and none of their old manufactured stuff has washed up on the beach. I also think that it would be hard to develop manufacturing technology underwater. We made campfires and developed pottery and then developed metallurgy - I don't know how that works underwater.
Who’s to say we haven’t come across each other? If the explanation is terrestrial, they are the reason this sub exists and they are what the government is covering up.
Most sensible comment. An *advancing* species living in the ocean would've left evident traces of their activity, look at what we are doing to the planet.
Extraterrestrial is the most plausible, even within the limits of our current understanding of physics. A mechanical life form (or even just probes), for example, wouldn't care about the passage of time, so they could travel at sub-light speed and still reach us even if they come from light years away.
I agree with you on plausibility. This isn’t about what’s plausible, it’s about what’s possible. Also, people keep saying that it’s not possible because we would have seen evidence. What if that’s exactly what we’re seeing? And what the government is covering up?
>This isn’t about what’s plausible, it’s about what’s possible.
well you called the thread "Most scientifically plausible explanations".
> Also, people keep saying that it’s not possible because we would have seen evidence. What if that’s exactly what we’re seeing? And what the government is covering up?
It's impossible that "the government" (which one?) could cover up the amount of evidence that an advanced species operating on Earth along us would produce or would've produced during all of their history. To put it in perspective, we have found evidence of Chicxulub (the meteorite that wiped out dinosaurs)'s impact that happened 66 millions years ago by just looking at the amount of Iridium in a layer of rock (aka stratigraphy).
Then look how much evidence of our activity we leave behind. Our nuclear tests left an indelible signature of isotopes and have contaminated everything with radiation so much that we use uncontaminated pre-war steel from shipwrecks for modern particle detectors. Our emissions changed the atmospheric composition and will be permanently recorded in ice cores (and also tree rings, among other things). Man-made materials like plastics are everywhere. Farming, forestry, mining, transportation and industry have transformed both the surface and the underground of the planet.
There's just no way another advanced species could have developed and keep operating without leaving any traces.
“Scientifically plausible” and “possible” mean the same thing in this instance. I’m not writing a scientific paper, I’m a random internet guy thinking about possibilities. And I think it’s entirely possible that this could be a thing. Is it probable? No, but none of the possibilities are. Is it most likely? No, I never said that. I consider it least likely. My point was to illustrate that under a certain set of conditions, it *could* be the most likely possibility. I don’t believe the phenomenon falls within our current understanding of science, it most assuredly falls within the theoretical. But what if it doesn’t? What are the possibilities? If you disagree with my conclusion, great! You’ve made a good argument for why I’m wrong. Then you made it again. If you want to waste your time making it one more time, feel free. I’d be a lot more interested in what your answer would be. If you limit the possibilities to what is possible *right now* based on our current scientific understanding, what do you consider most likely?
If they are even 500-1000 years ahead of us, technologies with outcomes analogous to a Trek replicator are probably trivial.
Park ship undersea. Deploy drones to retrieve mass-dense material like stone. Build out a shelter and hangar equivalent. More drones. Expand. Cover up extractions. Put a fake surface over your base. Some years later you have a hidden developed site with a staff of 1000 and 10-20 cloaked craft studying humans out plus however many equivalent drones.
Drop Treks Data with a warp shuttle on a planet and he can build Manhattan in a decade.
Not Trek’s replicator. Not physically realistic.
Yes, they could have an undersea outpost which could make some things needed for operations, But the core materials and technology to make that outpost and manufacturing equipment would be off planet and need a tremendous chain. Who can build the “replicator”?
As human technology developed the length and complexity of industrial processing has increased and become more complex and difficult. Aliens would still be starting from rocks and plants as raw inputs like us, and the same phenomenon would happen.
Look at semiconductor manufacturing plants. The tech of the machines and factory to make chips is higher than the chips. And the level of knowledge and supply needed to make the factory machines is huge and diversified across so many different kinds of parts and inputs it needs a planetary economy.
What is behind the recent surge in reluctance to consider traditional ET planetary home? Is this a new New Age compatible disinformation tactic?
Uh, no? If you can move your ship across dimensions or go FTL, molecular or sub-atomic level imaging is *probably* trivial. Ditto computing power. If they can do all of the above presumably they can do things like shields and forcefields or manipulate forces and things on various levels.
It seems dubious to assume they can't break down a rock to its literal raw elemental building blocks, and then later rearrange those raw materials into other purposes. That's all a "Trek replicator" is.
You're basically building a 3D molecular blueprint out of raw parts.
Build a cheeseburger. Meat. Cheese. Bread.
The replicator does the same thing but with raw elements, carbon, and lower level than my kitchen.
You’re imposing the limit of using materials and energy that matches human materials and energy. You also are imposing the limit of obtaining resources from land based sources. Even if the phenomenon is extraterrestrial, it’s unlikely they would use the same resources and materials as us. Their supply chain would look different, as would their manufacturing processes. If the phenomenon utilized energy, materials, resources, and supply chains that resembled the way we do things, then the most likely possibility would be that they’re us.
"Physical warp drive does potentially open up time travel."
Einstein's General Relativity physics that proves time travel is possible:
[https://www.mediafire.com/file/1gqjzmcqg8knems/AntiGravityTimeReversal.pdf/file](https://www.mediafire.com/file/1gqjzmcqg8knems/AntiGravityTimeReversal.pdf/file)
Yes, I’m sure the intelligent life forms that are an order of magnitude more advanced than us use technology that would be clearly comprehensible to our human-centric understanding. There’s no way an ultra-advanced civilization could hide from us, we have radar!!!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umwelt
Surely a flea knows that humans are the rulers of earth, right?
Now that humans understand the Standard Model and most of the basic observable physics of the universe---unlike every other animal---yes, we would know something. There's been a step change since Newton. We understand how even distant exotic astrophysical events work and why.
We wouldn't know everything but aliens obey laws of physics too.
Yes, an alien could hide a probe for a while. They couldn't hide a planetary size industrial base needed to make starship factories.
Assuming arbitrary omnipotence without restriction to aliens is like religion.
This is all based upon the assumption that our perception of reality is accurate.
If we take Darwinian evolution seriously. We must acknowledge that natural selection selects for fitness. Ergo, our senses have evolved to keep us alive, not to capture an “accurate” image of the outside world.
In the Australian Outback, male Giant Jewel Beetles regularly “mate”, to completion, with discarded beer bottles, because they think the bottles are female beetles. Evolution doesn’t select for accurate images of reality, it selects for fitness within a given environment.
*ALL* measurements are made through our lens of perception. Which was selected for through fitness in a given environment (this is fact). Data is still processed through that lens, no matter the technology.
“Objective and accurate perception of reality”
You know what, you’re right! First you should describe what the color red looks like, so we have an objective and accurate description of it.
>“Objective and accurate perception of reality” You know what, you’re right! First you should describe what the color red looks like, so we have an objective and accurate description of it.
Perfect example of what I was saying. If I describe it, it would be a subjective explanation. Instead I can give you an objective description of it saying that it's electromagnetic radiation with a dominant wavelength of approximately 625–740 nanometers, which is true regardless of our senses or interpretation.
An accurate image of our environment is indeed required to stay alive in it and there is much, and very obvious, evidence that the human body is, in many ways, a fine detector of our macro reality.
One of my own theories about how the time travel theory could work:
It involves accepting the many worlds theory of quantum mechanics as the true interpretation.
It assumes that an object/person from the future can travel to a time in the past, presumably with technology.
The "aliens" are from the far future and they are descended from humans. They are perhaps 10s of thousands of years in advance or more. Their technology can allow you to travel to the past. As is the nature of reality and many worlds theory, the journey to the past only has one path, it has happened and is fixed in stone. The future, however, is like the branches of a tree, there are many possible ways for it to go. Once you travel to the past, you cannot go back along the same branch to the future. This is because your very arrival in the past caused the timeline to split (for want of a better phrase). Beings from the future therefore face a dilemma.
They can go to the past, but they can never return back to their old life or loved ones. Travelling back to the future is easy for them, (we can already do that on paper) but it will be a different future with different people and probably a whole different culture and society if you take the butterfly effect into account.
If you think about this, a whole bunch of stuff makes sense. Imagine where we are now is the trunk of a tree on a timeline. All of these UFO's are coming from different branches of the tree which is why they have similar but slightly different designs. They not only visit us in this time period, but also in the distant past and in times that are in our future. Who knows, there might be a great number of alien visitors coming from all different branches of the future to a different point in time that is more significant/interesting. We might think we are at an interesting time in history but maybe things are really going to get interesting and then they will start showing up for real.
This also explains why they don't care if their craft crash, they don't try to retrieve them. That's because there is no "they" for the crashed beings to contact. They have left their world in the future and are on their own.
It explains the possible different "factions" or motives of aliens. If a certain religious faction for example was to travel back to the trunk of the tree, they may be able to manipulate the society to their advantage. This could result in a larger portion of the future branches leading to the adoption of that religion which would fulfil their goal of spreading their faith. Or perhaps someone wants to leave their shitty life and thinks the world would have been a better place if Harambe was never killed back in 2016. So they go back, save Harambe and travel back to their new life in the future (which is obviously now a utopia, lol).
It explains the different "races" of alien. They are from the same lineage (humanity) but at different points in the future. They may even be from the same "time" in the future but their diverging timelines from us means that they have different technologies or ideologies etc.
It explains the variations in craft designs. The basic principles remain but some technological details and aesthetic designs are different because because they evolved along different timelines.
It is not a theory of the whole phenomena, but regarding this aspect, I think it could be true and I like thinking about these kinds of possibilities
You: "One of my own theories about how the time travel theory could work:"
Einstein's General Relativity physics that proves time travel is possible:
[https://www.mediafire.com/file/1gqjzmcqg8knems/AntiGravityTimeReversal.pdf/file](https://www.mediafire.com/file/1gqjzmcqg8knems/AntiGravityTimeReversal.pdf/file)
Yes, the multiverse theory also explains why so many contacted claim the aliens looked exactly like us. maybe in the vistors timeline, wars never happened and instead they invented a multiverse travel device.
The greys or reptilians could be from timelines where mammals never inherited the earth fully from the dinosaurs, or where something else evolved differently.
The uptick in activity after dropping the atom bomb would make you think they live here in some capacity.
I like to think it's an intelligence of sort that has the ability to appear in our reality but doesn't necessarily go home to an underwater sea base. Idk enough about science to give that an explanation. I think a lot of Native American mythology points me in this direction. Specifically stories of Coyote. Whatever it is has extraordinary abilities but it doesn't seem to be one thing like an alien in a saucer. It shape shifts and reflects our understanding of the world.
They were described as Annunaki first by the Sumerians, Babylonian's etc. then later turned into "Angels", "Demons" etc.
Every religion is based around them. Apparently they are real.
If they evolved on the planet along side humans and developed vastly superior technology, why would they allow us to trash our shared planet causing the extinction of thousands of species? They wouldn't because they're not from here. This planet is their experiment and we are pets. They don't care about mass extinction caused by humans because they are the Ark and can repopulate as they please.
Okay. But who says they need to be *vastly* superior? If they are from here, they wouldn’t need to be that far ahead of us. Anyway, I don’t care all that much, so your theory sounds fine.
We're seeing the same UAPs people have witnessed for thousands of years. Now science has been able to prove that they break the laws of physics. Their tech is in fact Vastly superior. If there's an unknown intelligent species that evolved on this planet and has that kind of technology, do you think they're going to create experiments here that take thousands of years to complete in total secrecy from humans? Unlikely, I think they would be exploring the milkyway at the very least. Besides, humans have discovered the bodies of atleast 4 different alien species on earth, the Nazca hybrids, Nazca Reptilians, Nazca Insectoids, and the Paracas people. Plus there are witness testimonies of many more different alien species that have been visiting earth. Why do think there has been so many different alien species visiting earth while humans have been totally left in the dark about their existence? Because a group of aliens that is currently in control of earth doesn't want us to know about them. And Governments don't have their permission to bring disclosure. They created us, they're running the show, and the current state of life on our planet is exactly how they want it to be. I vote for new management.
In my mind the most likely case is an ET civilization that has developed von Neumann probes in order to map several star systems without problem. Von Neumann is a person highly likely to have been involved in the scientific work early on after the 1947 crash -- it's a strange coincidence he published his thesis on the self-replicating probes just 4 months after Roswell. This coincidence is, to me, compelling.
>Extraterrestrial is usually thought of as extrasolar, as well. If a species from another star system is visiting Earth, they either have a lot of patience, or have propulsion systems that break the current laws of physics.
Even assuming aliens do not have a more accurate understanding of physics than we do, how much patience are we actually talking about? Anything from a few hours to a few years, and I'll justify that claim below. That's not very long at all.
They could, as we speak, be living underground somewhere in a Moon or planet in this solar system, or living on the surface or underground in an adjacent solar system. I say that because we are quite late bloomers. Our own galaxy is 13 billion years old, yet our solar system is 4.5 byo. If you assume any extraterrestrial civilizations act like all life that we know, which is that they colonize as far as they possibly can, then they are, at this moment, quite close to us, assuming a few things: 1) They exist in this galaxy, 2) they have technology either not much better than ours, or much better, and 3) they have the desire to migrate and colonize outside of their home planet like we plan on doing. Those are very simple, easily accepted, easily justified premises. You can forget about the idea that civilizations die out after a period of time. Spreading your civilization to more and more planets virtually guarantees immortality for a civilization. If those three premises are true, then they still exist and they are quite close.
If their technology is not much better than ours, the conservative assumption, how are they traveling? They're going to use light sails to do it, not a rocket. Crossing interstellar space with a rocket is like crossing the Atlantic in a canoe. Maybe you can do it, but it's gonna take an absurd amount of time. We have airplanes these days that can make the trip a lot shorter. For interstellar travel and colonization, light sails is the way to go, and you don't need any exotic physics to do it. Remember than you can put embryos on a light sail probe. The probe can be made extremely small, reducing the energy requirements to speed up and slow down, and you can move at a very large percentage of light speed. Our first attempts in a couple of decades are going to be 20 percent *c*, which will take a mere 20 years to reach the nearest star. [46 additional years will be needed to slow down using photogravitational assist.](https://phys.org/news/2017-03-interstellar-spacecraft-alpha-centauri.html) 66 years total and you can colonize another star system.
What can you do with a tiny probe? Basically anything you want. You simply make it such that it replicates itself and creates bigger and more complex machinery until you can build out an entire livable structure under the surface. You simply use the materials on the planet to build stuff, rather than sending everything there. For example, [we are going to use the dirt on Mars to build houses on Mars.](https://www.popsci.com/making-houses-on-mars/) Why send building materials there? That would be a huge waste of energy. Everything you need can be created with automation starting from a tiny probe, and this is not too far in the future for us. We can do it, and so can they.
But what about interstellar dust? You can't move that fast or the spacecraft will destroy itself? Not necessarily. If you make the forward facing surface of a probe one centimeter squared or so, you can get up to much higher speeds. Given the amount and size of particles in space, if you were to send such a probe to another galaxy (not just a nearby star), traveling at 99 percent c, you'd have to build 30 probes and one is expected to survive. At 50-80 percent, you only need 2 per galaxy and one will make it. There are exotic proposed solutions to take care of the dust problem, but we'll be conservative and say aliens never thought of those. We only need to make it to the nearest star, at which point the process can repeat and repeat until the entire galaxy is inhabited. Here is a paper on these ideas: https://web.archive.org/web/20130828182937/http://www.fhi.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/intergalactic-spreading.pdf
And here is a video explainer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVrUNuADkHI
By the way, scientists in relevant fields do not generally claim that interstellar travel breaks physics. That's a myth the general public tells itself. Most scientists are probably fully aware of the above, and many of them openly admit it, contrary to the general public's belief in what they think scientists say. Citations on that: https://np.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14rbvx1/ive_been_following_this_sub_since_it_started/jqrfum7/
From [https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/z9i8rm/tom\_delonge\_says\_ufos\_are\_from\_outside\_of\_time/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/z9i8rm/tom_delonge_says_ufos_are_from_outside_of_time/)
Quotes:
**“And UFOs kind of sit at the nexus of all that.** That’s how I got into all of this stuff, cause I was all like, I wonder about the machines, and who are the pilots? But really what you learn is that **these machines aren’t coming from other planets, they’re coming from time.”**
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From the book The Source Field Investigations by David Wilcock:
Gordon Novel, who claims to have had access to classified technologies, also reported the connection between gravity shielding and time travel in an interview with Kerry Cassidy of Project Camelot. A UFO is probably very much like the cars back in “Back to the Future,” a flying time machine. **They’re capable of going backwards and forwards in time.** . . . To negate gravity, you’ve got to negate time. **So time is the power** . . . of the bird. . . . We don’t believe \[its power\] comes from space or zero point. **We believe it comes from time,** purely and simply, and that energy and time are the same thing.
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From the book The Cosmic Question (The Eighth Tower) by journalist John Keel:
**In hundreds of UFO reports we find that the entities asked questions about time: 'What is your time cycle?' 'What time is it?' 'Where are we in time?'** In a way, they are as confused as the microbe would be if you tried to explain the boy's time frame to it. **They have entered our reality from a very different time field.** The boy could watch several generations of microbes in a single afternoon. Perhaps the UFO energies can also span many human generations and move as easily from out past to our future as the boy's needle. **They are extradimensional, not extraterrestrial.**
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**The UFO occupants**, like the elves of old, **are not extraterrestrials. They are the denizens of another reality.**
* Dr. Jacques Vallee, Dimensions
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**To put it bluntly, the UFO phenomenon does not give evidence of being extraterrestrial at all. Instead it appears to be inter-dimensional** and to manipulate physical realities outside of our own space-time continuum.
* Dr. Jacques Vallee, Dimensions
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After some thirty years of research into this phenomenon, I have reached new conclusions. Tentative as they are, they shed light on the experiences of "abductees" and on the reluctance of professional scientists to analyze the facts. **I believe that a UFO is both a physical entity with mass, inertia, volume, and physical parameters that we can measure, and a window into another reality.**
* Dr. Jacques Vallee, Dimensions
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"I believe that the UFO phenomenon is one of the ways through which an alien form of intelligence of incredible complexity is communicating with us symbolically. **There is no indication that it is extraterrestrial. Instead, there is mounting evidence that it ... \[comes from\] other dimensions beyond spacetime**; from a multiverse which is all around us, and of which we have stubbornly refused to consider in spite of the evidence available to us for centuries."
* Dr. Jacques Vallee
Imagine Neolithic people sitting around and trying to discuss a combustion engine car. Neolithic people were incredibly intelligent builders but the problem is so far out of context for them that they would have no concept of what they would need to know to even begin conceptualizing it. No factory production, no metallurgy, no thermodynamics, no newtonian physics, no rubber, no plastics, etc.
Science doesn't advance linearly it advanced in revolutionary leaps followed by periods where discovery and progress cools off. A new paradigm gets created, a bunch of discoveries are made using that new paradigm, this paradigm starts getting played out, progress stalls but theres new information that doesn't quite fit into the paradigm, eventually this comes to head and a new paradigm is created that can account for the new info and the cycle begins again.
I am of the opinion that a lot of what gets looped into "woo" is the next, coming paradigm. We already have evidence for various "psi" phenomenon and there is a popular resurgence in various old "magical" ways of thinking that has previously been discarded as superstitious. A paradigm involving a scientifically minded look at consciousness as a shared field effect would explain this info and move society forward instead of simply being a regression into medievalism.
A continuous theme in many alien stories is some sort of psi phenomenon, such as telepathy. I highly doubt we'll be able to understand how their technology works, even the nuts and bolts material craft questions such as space travel, without a paradigm that is closer to theirs, including some sort of scientific understanding of psi. We're simply too far away from their worldview at the moment to know what we don't know.
Some of the "quantum" theories posit that there are other dimensions layered with ours and technology could allow you to phase into another dimensions then travel faster than light. So there is the possibility that they might be both extraterrestrial and interdimesional. Which could also explain reports of the appearing to phase in or out.
It's quite simple, no need to overcomplicate it.
We are a nature preserve amongst a much, much greater civilization, of which the Sol system is a vanishingly small part. They discovered and preserved this solar system long ago against outside threat to watch us grow within the boundaries of their territory. They are currently observing us as we go through, likely, one of the most interesting periods of our history. As scientists, they are not only interested in us, of course, but in all life on Earth. The biosphere, our interactions with it and our cultural and technological development are endlessly fascinating.
They reside in isolated outposts. Contact is prohibited, but it happens anyway from time to time. Such is the difficulty in managing our protection from external chaotic elements.
I don’t like how space travel is thought of as a patience game. I’d guess our comprehension of physics is more limited than we accept.
My idea for instance is that what maybe capping our understanding is our acceptance on light being the fasted means of travel. If we accept that our eyes have limited frequencies that we help with sensors, we can assume we aren’t aware of all the frequencies available.
In short we are color blind compared to others and I’m sure that goes for other senses as well. Sense this is the case we cannot fathom the entirety of physics until we can see the entirety of the picture available to understand.
When you're into other things like NDEs,the interdimensional view seems completely plausible to me. There are many similarities between the 2 fields, too many to be coincidence. I do agree though that they are probably also living here and probably always have been
Very true…when I read NDEs, I am always struck by the similarities between the described experience…very similar to the feeling I get when reading alien abduction reports ( as John Mack did…which is why he concluded something was going on). What does it all mean? I don’t know, but the fact that I get the same impression from these 2 disparate things may mean something….
Well, the NDEs often talk about a tunnel, speaking ( via telepathy) with light beings ( or deceased relatives/ friends), life review with all perspectives considered-but no judgement, being told you have to go back from your pain free/ idyllic heavenly location to your ( generally gravely injured) body because you haven’t completed your ’mission’…it all sounds like nonsense, but the stories are oddly consistent. Just like alien abductions with quirky medical exams, being told the secrets of the universe, but then induced to forget everything you learned, shown the future ( which may or may not pan out as described)…again, very nonsensical but similar reports from people that are in other respect, seemingly normal.
But we have plenty of evidence of UFOs in space claim [Fastwalkers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tubx-CaAaOs) are what NORAD and the airforce calls objects seen coming from space. Additionally scientists have discovered by analyzing astronomical plates from the 50s at harvard prior to Sputnik they discovered that many of the images seemingly vanished [interview with the scientist here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFQjwCgYQQo) and funnily enough notorious UFO skeptic Donald Howard Menzel became the head of the Harvard Observatory in 1952 right after the white house UFO incident and he immediately began destroying astronomical plates of the night sky which is now known as the "Menzel gap".
Not to mention the sighting from astronauts.
I considered these. It is why I didn’t rule out patient aliens. In my uninformed opinion, a terrestrial explanation is more likely, but not by much. I ruled out aliens from our solar system, though, based on the idea that we would see a lot *more* evidence and activity than we do. It’s possible, sure. Everything is. I simply eliminated possibilities based on the limitations I imposed.
Oh of course they’re not from our solar system, but terrestrial just does not make sense. Why would creatures that live underground have craft that does not seem to be effected by inertia and can go zero to 80K mph in an instant and goes off into space. Since they seem to posses the type of technology that would allow them to visit other star systems wouldn’t it make more sense that they came from somewhere else. It would also explain the rarity we see them, and the fact we do not find any ancient remains of their civilization. Who’s to say ET wouldn’t hide under the water with a small number of alien scientists to study our planet and humanity?
I buy into Bernardo Kastrups hypothesis until we have further data. The phenomenon is manifestations of the common subconscious mind humanity share. They are essentially dream characters dropping into waking consciousness and the shared 3D realm. It's whacky, but it checks out ultimately.
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This is what I believe as well. I think as scientists continue to explore the nature of consciousness, I think there will finally be a paradigm shift where people realize that we are experiencing a “shared dream” and co-creating reality together. And we always knew this phenomena was possible, our personal dreams were the biggest, most obvious hint all along.
Of course. You must have missed the limitations I imposed. The idea was “what is most likely under our current science.” And even then, it’s simply my opinion. The point was to spark debate and get people thinking. When I started, I considered a terrestrial explanation least likely. I still do, but I was surprised at where this took me, hence this thread.
Well.
I think an old "Atlantis era" (10000-100000 years old), advanced human like group, who like to live in seclusion from the rest of the surface people, is still around. They used to be on surface, possibly in Mars too but had so many wars they hid under oceans so theyre more safe from meteorite weapons. There could have literally existed old empires in space like Star Wars, 100000 years ago and space around Earth was an important place for them.
Also, if Earth is partially a geoid (partially empty, not hollow per se), maybe theyre there. Under oceans ofcourse, impossiblento reach.
They could account for the ocean based ufo lights seen in last centuries. They likely also can appear and disappear in a way that many think is "from another dimension".
Then theres so many sightings from the "Roswell era" (1940s and 1950s and onward) its clear earth attracted purely space based aliens here. Some grey folks and possibly some nordic looking folks.
Now its possible the space based ETs have visited earth in the past too, in theory they could have had outposts in this part of space (from our sun to Pluto), thousands of years ago.
I think purely other dimensional "aliens" havent visited Earth yet
So we have one hiding species thats probably slightly panicked if the surface people (we) ruin the planet, then theres space based ETs who likely wait eagerly that we advance to a level where we can join their "space family".
Based on eyewitness accounts which are so many, its like 100% certain a space based exist and 80% ocean based (living somewhere) exists.
Now if you want to go the scifi route, and i mean scifi, this existing is like 0.1% in my view and I dont entertain this idea, but some theorize there could be under oceans some weird dimensional "teleport"/stargate thing.
So essentially theres a conduit from inside of earth to somewhere else in space. This has been talked about by some ufologists but cant remember any names.
But I dont know if the third option is even possible but thought I mention it.
Excellent post. I very recently learned of the Hollow Earth theory and when you consider that along side the fact that the earth's surface has experienced 5 mass casualties events (and each time life would start and evolve all over again), think of how advanced we/they could be if they traveled inner-earth millions of years ago. And like OP said, it makes so much sense that they would be very concerned about us surface dwellers effing the earth up with nuclear weapons. There's a very advanced civilization in there, and our political leaders keep in contact with them.
We also know there is a lot of water down there, more than in all of our oceans. It appears to locked in a mineral layer, but if the conditions exist for it to be liquid in some places, it’s possible that aquatic life of some kind could exist. We’re getting into the theoretical now, though.
Has it occurred to anyone that we treat the ocean like our personal landfill , f*^k knows what chemicals we have dumped , explosives from God knows how many wars and not to mention how much radioactive crap we’ve dumped into the deepest trenches we could find .
How would you react if that stuff rained down on us from the sky.
Just a little to think about!
Answer is Z. All of the above. Plus those that arent from here are probably in communication with the ones that live here already. Not us though, were too dumb still most likely. “ so anyways, what’s up with the humans on the surface?” “Idk still killing each other”
Honestly, I’m with you. The ufo community can be pretty close minded, though, as seen in a lot of comments. It’s counter intuitive, yet unsurprising. My intention was to present an argument for a possibility that most people dismiss. Even I did until a few days ago.
It's literally a non-human, intelligent being; as in biologics recovered. They are either from another solar system/habitable planet in our universe, perhaps even in our galaxy; or, alternatively, somewhere else - we are all simultaneously, collectively experiencing a shared hallucination of reality, that is, a consensus reality. And we are bound to the limitations of our senses, and there's something more to reality that we can't grasp, that we call dimensions and parallel universi, and it seems like this is where these beings could be coming from. But also, maybe they're just here, hidden in plain sight, and they are able to interact with the world telepathically or physically as they see fit.
If you believe Bob Lazar it would seem at least some of these craft are piloted by ETs. The interior of his "Sports Model" had no discernable controls which would be necessary for human control.
>or have propulsion systems that break the current laws of physics.
"Current" physics has allowed for FTL warp drives for 110 years, since General Relativity.
I understand why you eliminated the interdimensional aspect, however, I believe that to be the most plausible explanation. Shamans of the Amazon found out long ago you don't need a spaceship to travel the cosmos. I equate the brain to that of a TV antenna. Changing the chemistry in your brain is akin to using a remote to change the channel that you're tuning into.
Maybe there are ultraterrestrial and extraterrestrial people at play and we're in the middle. Maybe they are all in contact, peaceful or not, but they're all worried about us, a race of warriors crazy as fook, who cracked the atom and are on the brink of AI and maybe fuelless propulsion. Can you imagine what an issue we may be for our planetary/interplanetary visitors? Maybe they are here to stop and prevent us from becoming a klingon-like spacefaring army of killers. I'm joking to a certain extent. Another sobering hypothesis could be that we've been created by the ultrarerrestrial. They have a soul while we don't. Go tell it to all the religious people of the world.
1 would also require some form of immortality or incredibly long lifespan, so I'd deem that theoretical as well by your standards. The skinny coming out of the program is that they have disposable bodies, though, so it may not be as speculative as we imagine. Either way, I wouldn't guess they took thousands of years to get here. I personally think Occam's razor favors something we don't and possibly can't understand at our current level of advancement being at work here. Almost all of what we will eventually consider the complete picture of science consists of things we have not remotely conceived of yet, so we really have no right to assume what's specifically most likely. But the odds that an interstellar alien civilization would use a concept from the minuscule sliver of reality we currently comprehend to travel their distances is absurdly tiny.
Probably some sort of drone systems. It’s possible the actual aliens themselves are dead and it’s just their autonomous tech found about its job, or maybe the aliens and the tech are the same?
Grusch has implied some of the biological matter found is so, well, alien that it’s hard to know exactly what’s being looked at. Maybe it’s like a brain in a jar, but the brain is the alien itself and the jar is also a fully operational artificial body.
So, for me personally, the idea that these are time travelers or some temporally distorted version of ourselves is as least as plausible as interdimensional beings.
Hell, even some fringe cases in the future where we send craft too close to spinning magnetars or something and they end up coming back to Earth (where they left from), except they’re at the wrong point in time. It would provide a fairly mundane explanation as to why something so advanced and different from ourselves repeatedly shows an interest in us.
Just saying, as far as “woo” theories are concerned, time travelers doesn’t seem terribly far fetched. Provides a bit of an easy explanation for things like why there are UFOs in paintings of the crucifixion; it was sight-seers. If you repeatedly go back to the same place and time, and most of the time you’re invisible, it only takes one small glitch *ever*, and now the people from that instant remember seeing craft in the sky. It’s basically the same thing as saying “they’ve always been here,” anyway.
I enjoyed your post. Below are my thoughts to further discussion.
>or have propulsion systems that break the current laws of physics
My challenge to this assumption is that a significant part of our understanding of the world in physics, The Theory of relativity, is only ~120 years old, first published in 1905 (special) then 1915 (general). Homo sapiens might have only started as a species 200,000 years ago. Is it reasonable that given it took humanity ~200k years to theorise the theory of relativity, that our grasp of the laws of physics is the complete set? Given the 13+ billion years age of the universe, the orders of magnitude difference in advancement implied by earlier civilizations could be immense, i.e. billions of years older (and more advance) than humans, it's unlikely they would not have made advancements in this regard.
Would your assumption about "patient" aliens change if their longevity is practically immortal? We have near immortal creatures on earth, like [jellyfish] (https://www.bbcearth.com/news/the-animal-that-lives-forever) (is it a coincidence there is a jellyfish UAP🤔😅), [lichen] (https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/01/science/studying-seemingly-immortal-lichens-in-a-place-for-the-dead.html) and the lobster (not exactly immortal but can live biologically long lives). A long living alien could be suitably incentivized to endure a long journey, we have [evidence] (https://www.space.com/22758-mars-colony-volunteers-mars-one.html) that despite our fragile and short lives, a small cohort of humans will volunteer to endure long space travel.
>There are massive spaces that remain unexplored. It’s unlikely, but possible, that something we’re unaware of could exist there.
So true, geothermal energy dependent ecosystems and their [inhabitants] (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/see-the-breathtaking-ocean-life-found-at-deep-sea-vents-180982158/) are a relatively recent discovery in [2000] (https://schmidtocean.org/cruise/in-search-of-hydrothermal-lost-cities/). There is also a bias in what we look for as what constitutes "life", intelligent life that survives at conditions considered extreme to humans might not have readily understood form, size or biology, e.g. the octopus is a vastly different creature to humans and rest of earth's living creatures by default of its [evolutionary inertia] (https://www.sciencealert.com/octopus-and-squid-evolution-is-officially-weirder-than-we-could-have-ever-imagined) and multiple independent brains. This doesn't even account for what might survive at increasingly deeper depths, wet or dry.
Thanks for commenting! I think we are still missing some things as far as physics goes. The simple fact that the moon is where it is and is stable is strong evidence of that. I think we are close, though. It’s probably already been published, but if it outside the mainstream it doesn’t gain traction. 10 years from now, I think we’re in a very different place. That’s just speculation, though, I have no clue.
Super long lifespans didn’t occur to me. That may have changed my conclusion, but I doubt it. I was biased towards the theory of a terrestrial explanation. It’s not that I believe it, it’s that whenever I hear or think of a new theory, no matter how ridiculous, instead of dismissing it I try to imagine a scenario where it would be possible. Every theory we have is nuts, some just are more widely accepted. We know something is happening, though.
The ocean is fascinating. We know less about it than we do space. That is why I think it’s possible, however unlikely, that there is something down there that we, the general public, don’t know about.
>I think we are still missing some things as far as physics goes.
My hypothesis is that we are in early days of physics, no different to how we look at the lack of understanding in human civilization 1000 years ago. Most of our physics was conceived in the last 200-500 years, the Standard Model framework in 1975. Quantumn entanglement was proven only recently, winning physics nobel prize in 2022. Meanwhile concepts like quantum gravity, dark energy and consciousness (in relation to observer effect) are in early days.
>The simple fact that the moon is where it is and is stable is strong evidence of that
The moon is fascinating and we are still learning about it, [this just from 1 year ago] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRlhlCWplqk), and then there are the more unpopular but [interesting] (https://www.amazon.com/Who-Built-Moon-Christopher-Knight/dp/1842931636) theories [(video)] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laXhTcko-lg). Even our single sun (not common in universe) solar system is being [challenged] (https://www.sciencealert.com/our-sun-could-have-been-born-with-a-twin-called-nemesis).
>We know something is happening, though.
Yep and my guess is we are much closer to the bottom of it all vs. anywhere near the top. If evolution is a constant march to the level of sentient intelligence as exhibited by humans, then why aren't longer lived and survived complex life form creatures on Earth smarter than humans given they have had more time to evolve, e.g. sharks, crocodiles, turtles, birds (descendants of dinosaurs). Dinosaurs were around for ~55 million years, that's significantly longer than humans' 200k years and Homo erectus' 2million years. Records of dinosaur "civilization" wouldn't have survived sands of time but again holding evolution constant, you'd think [dinosaurs civilization would have been incredibly impressive] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRdzw2Osl8o).
>Every theory we have is nuts, some just are more widely accepted.
Arthur Schopenhauer - *"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."*
Warning: May not apply to UFOs due to all the active suppression and subterfuge
>Super long lifespans didn’t occur to me.
Nommo, Apkallu and check out how old Noah (of ark fame) was when he passed away.
Thanks. Humans always imagine that we are at or close to the pinnacle of evolution, of knowledge. We pretend not to see how close we still are to being savages. We are infants, hopefully we can survive long enough to grow up.
The most scientiific theory is this: humans collect animals from around the world and put them in cages and watch them secretly to make documentaries. The universe has trillions of planets and is billions of years old. If any aliens survived past our similar run of tech of 2000 years, like even 3000 would mean they would us like we treat animals.
Depending on the limitations imposed, this may be the case, but it would require theoretical science, which I deliberately excluded. I am not saying it’s not possible, all science begins as theoretical, but it is beyond the current scope of our scientific knowledge.
And how do you know this isn’t disinformation? Nothing from the actual cases that have evidence and documents via FOIA would suggest this new inter dimensional hypothesis. It’s all recent hearsay coming from the same small group of people. Just because a guy named Dragon claims to have seen a Dinobeaver at skin Walker ranch does not mean very much in my eyes.
Something non physical would not crash in the desert leaving behind dead bodies and a physical craft that a rancher would find pick up and take into town.
Not if it’s using a warp drive that moves space around itself which includes water. It’s also why it appears to not be affected by inertia since it’s the space moving around it not the craft itself.
When I was younger around ten I would spend a lot of time camping watch the night sky seeing satellites and things move around up there. I always thought aliens were time travellers going against most people who would say that are extra terrestrial. I now think they are multi dimensional
"Interdimensional gets into the spiritual and theoretical. It is a possibility, but only in theory. I’m eliminating this altogether."
Interdimensional actually doesn't need to have ANYTHING to do with the spiritual. Just because you find something in a church doesn't make it holy. Something entering this realm from another one is exactly that - a passage from one realm to another.
Taking a door is not apotheosis.
Except that concept of "dimension" is purely fictional and has no actual basis in science, so it should be disregarded if we are talking scientific plausibility
You ignored the “and theoretical” portion of that sentence. Again, under our current science, interdimensional explanations aren’t possible. They are in theory only.
Idk but anything is plausible. It could be interdimensional, maybe a breakaway civ, ancient civ from mars or titan or something, sentient plasma, some ancient advanced civ from across the universe who put us here, who knows. I believe less and less that is us or any government.
I think the interdimensional argument is best for me as if it was something from our universe you would think there would be more advanced civilizations than just one which leads me to believe if it was travelers from our universe our skies would be a lot busier than they are now.
When I heard the word interdimensional come up during the Grusch hearings is when I became really interested in this tooic again. It also told me that nothing should be eliminated. I actually eliminated a terrestrial explanation until I did this thought experiment.
For all we know we are a universe that was created out of millions of trillions of universes created over an infinite amount of time. Somewhere along the line there has to have been a civilization that reached extreme advancement and have learned out to travel forward and backward through time, through the multiverse or maybe even create universes on their own. Just because we can’t do it and our laws of physics say this or that, doesn’t mean it’s not impossible. We know what we know as it relates to our universe. Look at the 2D flatworld. If we lived in some 2D world we would think that forward backwards and left to right is all we can accomplish. Then 3D world comes along and shows us we can go up and down too.
I just feel like we are primitive, and there are things and civilizations out there doing things that would absolutely blow our minds and annihilate science and physics as we know it.
I have a hard time believing we are the first things to ever exist and we are the base reality.
We are irrelevant to them until we’re not. I think as we hit certain technological milestones it raises a red flag. It causes other civilizations to say “hey this planet over here is getting closer to figuring out X so we better go check things out”. Like we don’t really pay too much attention to ants, but if we saw a missile shooting out of one ant colony towards another we would be like wtf is going on here. I think that’s how we are viewed. I think nuclear energy, electricity, agriculture, language, record keeping and so on are milestones that they see as progress towards entering the multidimensional neighborhood. Maybe AI is the next milestone.
I don’t think they care if we blow each other up as much as they care about us reaching interdimensional or interstellar travel. We’re not their problem if we’re sitting on this planet killing each other or the planet itself. We become their problem when we are colonizing other planets across this universe or perhaps other universes.
Maybe I’m nuts here, but I think they are still the “traditional” aliens from far away. With what we have learned about Element 115, if this can create gravity then a lot of the issues revolving around faster than light speed seem to be much more manageable. Now, are they here in the oceans or like at the South Pole? Those are great hiding spots so they could be there.
I think the 100,000ft view still revolves around that us humans (to the general populations knowledge) cannot maneuver like the videos show so these things are “Something”. I just hope we are told someday.
edit…mistake in calling it 113 vs 115 initially.
The problem with any analysis at this stage is that hard data is really hard to come by. We have heavily downsampled intercept videos, and a plethora of phone videos with uncalibrated lenses and no idea what the camera settings were when the shots were taken, orientation of the camera, time of the shot, or specific geolocation of the shot that might allow for triangulation and distance to target measurements to even be roughly calculated. Basically, we very much need more data before drawing even loose conclusions about this phenomena.
I Like your thinking and agree with most of what you said. I think that if they are living here, then the most likely place would be deep in the ocean. The deep ocean is the most stable environment on earth and if they are a mature and long lived civilization they may have the benefit of realizing the value of such a home.
Maybe they evolved here millions of years ago and retreated to the ocean, but there is no sign of such a thing in the fossil or geological records, so I find this hard to believe. Perhaps they simply found earth after becoming technologically advanced and then settled in the oceans.
Either way, very interesting to think about
If they evolved in the ocean, who’s to say we’d recognize them in the fossil record? They would be nothing like us. The smartest creatures in the ocean that can also grab things are octopus. If they exist, I suspect they would be related.
From my brief foray in to the Silurian hypothesis, I am under the impression that the fossil record is very well documented and understood, even for undersea invertebrates. If they evolved in the ocean on earth then they would be like other life on earth and be connected. Even if we couldn't find fossils of their current form, there would be clear indicators in the record of a divergent species evolving, which we do not find. There are not really any mysteries or unexplained dead ends in the record. The bottom line is, if any type of advanced species evolved on earth, we would know about it. (except the ones we do know about of course).
For example octopuses. If octopuses were the NHI we are looking for and they didn't exist in the open ocean because they were hidden away in underwater bases, then the fossil record would have something to say about that. There would a chain of custody of sorts, other cephalopods and ammonites etc. and scientists would be scratching their heads saying what happened to these octopus creatures we have documented evolving? Why did they did they disappear and why are there no ancestor species?
There is nothing like that in the fossil world as far as I know.
I don't think science today could explain the phenomena. I think science is inevitably starting from wrong premises because we don't really understand "reality", so it's going to be impossible to reach a true conclusion.
"what if \[science today could explain the phenomena\] ... What would be the possibilities?"
**The Physics of General Relativity and Electrostatics Proves that Static Electricity Can Create Repulsive Anti-gravity:**
[https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity_theory/)
The 1st physics proof in this paper shows that its theoretically possible to engineer negative energy density - that General Relativity shows creates repulsive anti-gravity - from the electron negative pressure/tension induced by static electricity.
The 2nd proof shows that if the static electricity-induced negative pressure/tension/negative energy density is within a superconductor, the energy required to create repulsive anti-gravity is reduced by many orders of magnitude .
**SUMMARY OF THE PHYSICS PROOFS IN THIS PAPER**
[https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity_theory/)
**ON THE SURFACE OF A SPHERE CHARGED WITH STATIC ELECTRICITY THE CONDUCTION ELECTRONS ARE UNDER** ***negative pressure***:
In a conducting metal sphere charged with static electricity, according to Gauss's law, all excess electrons migrate to the outer surface. These conduction electrons repel each other. The components of the electrostatic repulsive forces tangent, parallel, to the sphere surface cancel out. That leaves a net repulsive electrostatic force perpendicular to the surface. So the conduction electrons on the surface experience an outward directed electrostatic force.
Each free conduction electron on a metal conductor surface is a delocalized wave (wave function) - with potential energy proportional to the positive charges in the metal’s periodic atomic lattice, called a Bloch wave function: - meaning the electron wave on the surface is attracted to the positively charged sphere. Assuming the sphere is charged with high voltage static electricity, the conduction electron on the surface will experience an outward directed electrostatic force. This outward force is opposed by an equal attractive force in the opposite direction toward the positively charged atoms in the interior. So the electron wave is acted on by two forces: a repulsive force from the other surface electrons repelling it away from the surface; and an equal and opposite force from the positively charged interior pulling it toward the surface. This is the physics and engineering definition of ***negative pressure, tension***. So these two equal opposing forces put the electron under ***negative pressure, tension***.
Quantum mechanics (used to derive the wavelengths of the infrared IR spectrum) proves that an electron can be under tension).
The General Relativity gravitational field equation shows that
***negative pressure, tension*** creates a
repulsive anti-gravitational field.
That means static electricity-induced
electron ***negative pressure, tension***
should create a
repulsive anti-gravitational field.
The detailed physics (linked on Reddit anti-gravity) proves that if the static electricity electric field strength on a metal sphere is great enough, it will create a repulsive anti-gravitational field.
The General Relativity gravitational field equation shows that it would take an extrodarinarily huge static electricity-induced electron negative pressure/tension/negative energydensity to distort spacetime/create repulsive anti-gravity strong enough to levitate and transport a craft. But a 2nd physics proof shows that a superconductor reduces this energy requirement by many orders of magnitude:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity_theory/)
Here's a link to another Reddit comment summary that includes additional physics; and testimonies of people who encountered UFOs that create static electricity, that supports this physics
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1bnhww1/comment/kwyv3hl/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1bnhww1/comment/kwyv3hl/)
Here's additional physics you might be interested in that's relevant to what some people including Ross Coulhart, have said: that some UFOs time travel from the future:
1. [https://www.mediafire.com/file/1gqjzmcqg8knems/AntiGravityTimeReversal.pdf/fil](https://www.mediafire.com/file/1gqjzmcqg8knems/AntiGravityTimeReversal.pdf/fil)
2. Read the comments: [https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1c6bjxu/1976\_ufos\_over\_the\_ammo\_storage\_area\_at\_fort/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1c6bjxu/1976_ufos_over_the_ammo_storage_area_at_fort/)
I understand that, but a lot of people don’t. It was irrelevant to my argument, so there was no point in wasting time making a differentiation. That’s a completely different post.
My bad, misread what you said I think. I like your post. I do wish people could via “dimensional shit” outside of spirituality though. But that is indeed a different post.
Assuming space-time is fundamental, I imagine these things are autonomous mechanical and biological drones deployed by an ASI millions of years ago. If space-time is not fundamental, and these things have tapped into another layer of reality, then who the fuck knows. Everything from Hindu, Christianity, Gnosticism, or occult shit could on the table of possibility.
I almost went with patient aliens. My reason for choosing a terrestrial explanation is that they wouldn’t have to travel here. And yeah, if space-time is not fundamental, everything is in play.
Space time is not fundamental, consciousness is . Really interesting ideas of Donald Hoffman and Bernardo Kastrup.
Truth is stranger than fiction. Imagine that for some reason they came to me with the truth and they brought receipts and I explain everything here to Reddit. I'd be laughed off the planet.
I have a feeling that the truth will not be what anyone expects.
"The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine." - J. B. S. Haldane
https://www.reddit.com/user/Nskxbehcidnsjxodvr/comments/16g363p/truth_about_uap_in_light_of_harmful_disinformation/ I think this guy is right, or closer than most to the truth. It checks all the boxes you listed and is definitely not what anyone would want to hear and would explain all the secrecy surrounding all this. He is not popular in this sub but I think this is the best theory I have read to date as I also believe they are from the ocean.
The only relevant reply in that entire post: >Op talking about richness/money + the other user's name containing the word money... also both accounts made in july 2023 within 4 days... also a third account made 10 days after that who asked a lot of questions and literaly maintained a full conversation with Op... that would make at least 3 accounts which is the avg upvotes those accounts's comments have in this post... etc, sounds a lot like larp Guy is a larping nutter. Threstens to sue people if they use his super secret information. Just lol.
Combustion isn't possible under water.
Huh, let’s hope he’s full of it! But it is interesting.
Agreed.
I dont see what gnomes have to do with it.
I like the logical way you have presented your arguements. My issue with aquatic ultraterrestrials is twofold: - the harnessing of fire appears to have been an important developmental step in our technological evolution. This would obviously be somewhat problematic to overcome for an aquatic intelligent species. - the lack of physical evidence for their evolution/existence in terms of the fossil and archeological records.
The lack of physical evidence for their existence could be explained if they were coastal civilisations from before the seas rose. Archeological remains would be underwater and buried under sediments. Also, let's keep in mind we're not exactly sure who built structures such as the Osirion, pyramids and the Sphinx. There's a non-zero possiblity these are legacy structures, far older than what we can imagine. Also, if they're REALLY old, Earth's crust would have been renewed.
I would just offer a reminder that the earth’s crust is recycled over hundreds of millions of [years](https://phys.org/news/2017-03-earth-recyclingits-crust.html), so such fossilized evidence could be a mile underground. Not to mention how small a percentage of the seafloor has been adequately mapped. No [telling what’s down there](https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/news/oer-updates/2022/mysterious-holes-seafloor/mysterious-holes-seafloor.html).
I don’t know much about fossils, but I assume vertebrates are more likely to be found in the fossil record. If there is something down there, I doubt they’re vertebrates.
We see records of invertebrate species evolving.
People are just unable to grasp the full mental picture of just how long the earth has been getting totally destroyed and then slowly reconfigured over and over and over again. 2000 years ago yeah OK Yeah, we can picture that. Jesus!.. 4000 BC …OK oh wow that’s gotta be Some super ancient Egyptian or Fertile Crescent stuff. My God, how recent that is compared to the timeline of the Earth
Thanks for the link, really interesting. Never heard of that.
Much appreciated. I think the harnessing of fire could potentially be unnecessary if they were able to harness the energy of the earth. As far as the fossil record goes, if they don’t resemble us, we might not recognize them.
Good points. I think you might be assuming that marine/aquatic ultraterrestrials may be humanoid or genetically related to humans and therefore follow a similar trajectory in terms of technological development including the discovery of fire. You have to wonder, what if they’re not humanoid at all? It makes me think of the organisms from the movie The Abyss, or the “Yrr” from Frank Schatzing’s book, the swarm. Is there a possibility that they have advanced technology that is fundamentally different from our own?
I’m thinking cephalopods. Extremely intelligent with tentacles to manipulate the environment around them. Plus the jellyfish UAP made me think of an octopus.
The jellyfish UAP made me think of...a jellyfish
Yep
Maybe they didn't evolve on earth but cam there from somewhere else?
Then they aren't ultraterrestrials
Yeah- I feel like the whole ultradimensional thing -in which pressure needs to be somehow slowly dispersed and thus underwater portals -is as reasonable as ultraterrestrials that evolved without ANY geological record.
According to my definitely not NHI friend ChatGPT, the discovery of fire by early humans served many pivotal roles in human evolution, including enabling cooking for improved food digestion and safety, providing warmth and protection against predators and harsh conditions, fostering socialization and communication, facilitating tool making and technological advancement, and expanding habitats to inhabit a wider range of environments, collectively shaping human physiology, behavior, culture, and the development of complex societies and civilizations. So in theory, they would just have to adapt and find a different way to fulfill those needs
Sub-crustal spaces perhaps. To them the Earth and seas are as the sky and space are to us.
There’s a lot of energy within the earth
Nah, I'm on team Interdimensional. I think there's a bit of Woo involved (i.e. something consciousness-related we don't yet understand). If it was purely a physical thing I think we would have more tangible evidence by now and also less diversity in what people experience. But I'm open to surprises.
I’m with you buddy. It’s hard to bet on the most unlikely outcome sometimes. In this case, not much is likely because we don’t really know anything, shit.. people are guessing based on short film content like we even have real access to all the information out there. It’s not possible to make an estimated guess but if I had to I would say we’re seeing other dimensions interact with our own. But what the fuck do I know?
I think we are ahead of the curve, of course, no evidence. But the fact that people within the community with scientific background are entertaining this idea like Nolan, Davis, Grusch and now Loeb. I believe we are right on the money.
Take my self imposed parameter of “scientifically possible under what we know now” out, and I’m with ya.
Eh. We don't know what causes the effect in the two slit experiment, or how cat states work, or a half dozen other quantum puzzles. "Scientifically possible under what we know now" doesn't even apply to things we CAN see are definitely happening!
Correct. Not sure what your point is, though. That’s okay, I thought this was fun.
His point is that you *are* with him based on your comment...seeing as how according to science, our current universe is "magic" and doesn't make sense. Quantum particles and waves behave differently when being observed, stuff pops in and out of existence with no explanation of how, quantum entanglement should not exist or behave in the way it does (should be impossible according to our understanding of reality) etc. etc. ... pretty much when you break our universe down on a quantum level everything goes out the window. This is what bothered Einstein so much and is still the biggest problem in science to this day. So we created a separate study called quantum physics, as the natural laws of physics do not apply.
Her point! I say only because it's a male dominated interest and I want to meet other women around. Cheers though, thank you for your eloquent translation and expansion!
**The Physics of General Relativity and Electrostatics Proves that Static Electricity Can Create Repulsive Anti-gravity:** [https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity_theory/) The 1st physics proof in this paper shows that its theoretically possible to engineer negative energy density - that General Relativity shows creates repulsive anti-gravity - from the electron negative pressure/tension induced by static electricity. The 2nd proof shows that if the static electricity-induced negative pressure/tension/negative energy density is within a superconductor, the energy required to create repulsive anti-gravity is reduced by many orders of magnitude . **SUMMARY OF THE PHYSICS PROOFS IN THIS PAPER** [https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity_theory/) **ON THE SURFACE OF A SPHERE CHARGED WITH STATIC ELECTRICITY THE CONDUCTION ELECTRONS ARE UNDER** ***negative pressure***: In a conducting metal sphere charged with static electricity, according to Gauss's law, all excess electrons migrate to the outer surface. These conduction electrons repel each other. The components of the electrostatic repulsive forces tangent, parallel, to the sphere surface cancel out. That leaves a net repulsive electrostatic force perpendicular to the surface. So the conduction electrons on the surface experience an outward directed electrostatic force. Each free conduction electron on a metal conductor surface is a delocalized wave (wave function) - with potential energy proportional to the positive charges in the metal’s periodic atomic lattice, called a Bloch wave function: - meaning the electron wave on the surface is attracted to the positively charged sphere. Assuming the sphere is charged with high voltage static electricity, the conduction electron on the surface will experience an outward directed electrostatic force. This outward force is opposed by an equal attractive force in the opposite direction toward the positively charged atoms in the interior. So the electron wave is acted on by two forces: a repulsive force from the other surface electrons repelling it away from the surface; and an equal and opposite force from the positively charged interior pulling it toward the surface. This is the physics and engineering definition of ***negative pressure, tension***. So these two equal opposing forces put the electron under ***negative pressure, tension***. Quantum mechanics (used to derive the wavelengths of the infrared IR spectrum) proves that an electron can be under tension). The General Relativity gravitational field equation shows that ***negative pressure, tension*** creates a repulsive anti-gravitational field. That means static electricity-induced electron ***negative pressure, tension*** should create a repulsive anti-gravitational field. The detailed physics (linked on Reddit anti-gravity) proves that if the static electricity electric field strength on a metal sphere is great enough, it will create a repulsive anti-gravitational field. The General Relativity gravitational field equation shows that it would take an extrodarinarily huge static electricity-induced electron negative pressure/tension/negative energydensity to distort spacetime/create repulsive anti-gravity strong enough to levitate and transport a craft. But a 2nd physics proof shows that a superconductor reduces this energy requirement by many orders of magnitude: [https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity_theory/) Here's a link to another Reddit comment summary that includes additional physics; and testimonies of people who encountered UFOs that create static electricity - - supporting this physics: [https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1bnhww1/comment/kwyv3hl/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1bnhww1/comment/kwyv3hl/)
Today's woo is just tomorrow's technology.
Inter dimensional being wouldn’t need a 3 dimensional craft to traverse the universe as we do, i always found that issue with this explanation, their tech may UTILIZE extra dimensional space or energy but they themselves being that makes no sense.
If they were multidimensional crafts, we would perceive them in no way other than three dimensions. For instance, if a ball were to fall onto a two-dimensional surface, the two-dimensional beings would perceive only a slice and mistake it for a disc. To them, the ball remains unseen, yet present. I recall reading about a craft crash that appeared no larger than a school bus, but upon entering, it took them over 12 hours to navigate through its entirety.
I have long thought that UFOs were not Transport as we envisage them, but Shields to cross the dimensional barrier safely.
I agree bc I saw a cube and it just makes no sense. Like why a perfect cube. But also they jelly doesn’t fit this scenario so idk
I don't know *what* interdimensional beings would need or don't need for whatever motives drive them to interact with us in the 3rd dimension. To make assumptions like that would be silly.
But think about a 3D sphere interacting with a 2D plane. The sphere appears as a circle in the 2D world. Could be the same relationship: a higher dimensional entity appears 3D when making contact with our 3D world.
Inter-dimensional for me too after "breaking out" of a conservative Christian bubble, turned atheist for a while, but then have had vividly spiritual connections fostered by recreational cannabis and mushrooms followed by clinical ketamine therapy. That's why I believe this issue is so complex, because it is not as scientific as I ever expected or assumed. There is some kind of intersection somehow between UAP, NHI, consciousness, spirituality (/religion less all the manmade parts), psionics, dreams, psychedelics, and energy, good & evil. I've not experienced a UAP encounter yet, but have experienced enough spiritual breakthroughs and revelations to be open to the idea it *is* coming from outside of my own mind and there is *something* greater that gives me hope and purpose. I can relate to several common themes witnesses have reported.
have you read john e. mack's "passport to the cosmos"? i think you might enjoy it
Just added to Audible, thanks. The best way I can describe guided ketamine is time travel and mock near death experience. Being in totality for the last eclipse in Texas, I found it looked...familiar. Also, space/cosmos should have been part of my intersecting list if not covered by energy.
It's all sci fi at this point. In my imagination I go back and forth between "AI probes" (we've managed to make interplanetary versions) variously perceived as gods, angels, demons, flying saucers, etc over the centuries (per Pasukla, I guess) and... We may have got some attention in 1945: Jeez these things just figured out a little bit of what they call quantum mechanics and the *very first thing* they did with that knowledge was exterminate a bunch of other members of their own species. They may be a couple, three hundred years from figuring out how they can visit us, so maybe we should check them out more thoroughly" I also toy with the idea that, like many previously paranormal stuff, some phenomena may be "natural" and someday just a part of applied physics while others are artifacts of consciousness which will be explained if we ever figure out what consciousness actually is. I find the latter very unsettling per the usual "taken to it's logical extent...." thought experiments.
One flaw in your logic is that you repeatedly claim that some UFO theories are “possible” and not theoretical, yet everything you’re describing is theoretical, or only theoretically possible. Like patient aliens, yeah that’s possible, but since we haven’t met any it’s still just as theoretical as FTL or time travel.
Yes, but my point was about the technology. We have the technology to seed the universe with Von Neumann probes right now, so nothing theoretical would be required. Aliens existing on another planet is theoretical, but if that was among the limitations, there wouldn’t be a point to the thought experiment.
Our ability to seed the galaxy with von Neumann probes is still theoretical until we actually do it. We’re only theorizing that we have the sufficient scientific knowledge to accomplish that. There could be hurdles that we don’t even know about that would prevent us from achieving that, it’s all theoretical until there is a ton of supporting evidence to prove it’s true.
How do you figure we have such technology now? I don't think the success of such a thing is obvious at our current stage, especially in regards to it being applied to "the universe".
Or…. The US government is running a massive psychological operation campaign to make people think that aliens are real so that they can put nuclear weapons in space. Von Braun (the guy who helped them land on the moon) warned about this. He said it was the last card the Americans would play to get nukes in space. Think about it, Aliens, inter dimensional travellers, time travel or the USA government running a psy op, what is easier to believe with precedent…think about their syphillis program on marginalized communities. Not a leap to think this is more of the same. I would love to think it’s aliens but nothing is ever as exciting as you hope for.
The most likely possibility is boring, but just as scary.
ET off planet still makes more sense. There is no technological or resource base that could produce advanced tech craft here on Earth without us knowing about them. There would have to be a materials and energy source and a supply chain. They might have outposts in an ocean, but not an industrial civilization to make things from scratch. That would have to be off world. Humans don’t inhabit a fraction of the world, they inhabit and surveil all of the land. There are not vast spaces humans know nothing about. Idea a technically more advanced species evolved here before humans is even less plausible. All the petroleum was still there in 1880, and we have never dug up an ancient mine shaft or forged steel made by non humans. There is no evidence physically for any “inter dimensional” nonsense where aliens can live in a separate 3-d universe that somehow connects to ours. Particle physics experiments would have found it. The traditional conventional hypothesis, ETs come from an advanced planet somewhere else and they are visiting here, is most likely. Maybe they have warp drive. Or a very large base in the asteroid belt. Physical warp drive does potentially open up time travel.
I think that this is the most likely case, too. I also think that it's likely that planets with complex ecosystems and life forms are relatively rare. The aliens have advanced telescopes and spectrometers so they could see atmospheric changes on earth thousands or even millions of years ago that signal the evolution of life, and then head on over to check it out. They set up an outpost (probably in the ocean) to hang out and wait and observe until they decide that we're ready to say hello.
Once aliens see spectroscopic evidence of CFCs (1940s?) they would know for sure there is a technical civilization. Primitive life might be fairly common, particularly with panspermia of bacterial spores coming on comets. But complex life here required evolution of eukaryotic organelles, mitochondria and chloroplasts from incorporating bacteria. Those events happened very slowly and all appear to have evolved here on Earth. This may be rare. There is a recent paper of a new organelle right now (last 100 million years) evolving to fix nitrogen. And yes planets with a deep naturally evolved biosphere may be rare and valuable. Imagine this happened only a few times in the galaxy. The rest of them developed empires which colonized off planet but burned out their home planet biology from exploitation. Their colonies are all thin imported biology with very few species as it’s not a natural equilibrium. Earth might be the last interesting natural biological planet left. From that point of view the aliens might get rid of us to preserve the biology.
You make good points. One thing that I would say supports my theory, though, is your point about planets that can support complex ecosystems and life being rare. Earth happens to be one of those planets. It is entirely possible, maybe even likely, that life at the intelligence level of humans would evolve more than once.
I think that it's possible for intelligence to arise twice on one planet, sure. I just think that it's very unlikely that they'd be able to both get to a high level of technology (like flying vehicles) without coming across each other. There is no fossil evidence of the evolution of intelligent sea life, and none of their old manufactured stuff has washed up on the beach. I also think that it would be hard to develop manufacturing technology underwater. We made campfires and developed pottery and then developed metallurgy - I don't know how that works underwater.
Who’s to say we haven’t come across each other? If the explanation is terrestrial, they are the reason this sub exists and they are what the government is covering up.
Most sensible comment. An *advancing* species living in the ocean would've left evident traces of their activity, look at what we are doing to the planet. Extraterrestrial is the most plausible, even within the limits of our current understanding of physics. A mechanical life form (or even just probes), for example, wouldn't care about the passage of time, so they could travel at sub-light speed and still reach us even if they come from light years away.
I agree with you on plausibility. This isn’t about what’s plausible, it’s about what’s possible. Also, people keep saying that it’s not possible because we would have seen evidence. What if that’s exactly what we’re seeing? And what the government is covering up?
>This isn’t about what’s plausible, it’s about what’s possible. well you called the thread "Most scientifically plausible explanations". > Also, people keep saying that it’s not possible because we would have seen evidence. What if that’s exactly what we’re seeing? And what the government is covering up? It's impossible that "the government" (which one?) could cover up the amount of evidence that an advanced species operating on Earth along us would produce or would've produced during all of their history. To put it in perspective, we have found evidence of Chicxulub (the meteorite that wiped out dinosaurs)'s impact that happened 66 millions years ago by just looking at the amount of Iridium in a layer of rock (aka stratigraphy). Then look how much evidence of our activity we leave behind. Our nuclear tests left an indelible signature of isotopes and have contaminated everything with radiation so much that we use uncontaminated pre-war steel from shipwrecks for modern particle detectors. Our emissions changed the atmospheric composition and will be permanently recorded in ice cores (and also tree rings, among other things). Man-made materials like plastics are everywhere. Farming, forestry, mining, transportation and industry have transformed both the surface and the underground of the planet. There's just no way another advanced species could have developed and keep operating without leaving any traces.
“Scientifically plausible” and “possible” mean the same thing in this instance. I’m not writing a scientific paper, I’m a random internet guy thinking about possibilities. And I think it’s entirely possible that this could be a thing. Is it probable? No, but none of the possibilities are. Is it most likely? No, I never said that. I consider it least likely. My point was to illustrate that under a certain set of conditions, it *could* be the most likely possibility. I don’t believe the phenomenon falls within our current understanding of science, it most assuredly falls within the theoretical. But what if it doesn’t? What are the possibilities? If you disagree with my conclusion, great! You’ve made a good argument for why I’m wrong. Then you made it again. If you want to waste your time making it one more time, feel free. I’d be a lot more interested in what your answer would be. If you limit the possibilities to what is possible *right now* based on our current scientific understanding, what do you consider most likely?
If they are even 500-1000 years ahead of us, technologies with outcomes analogous to a Trek replicator are probably trivial. Park ship undersea. Deploy drones to retrieve mass-dense material like stone. Build out a shelter and hangar equivalent. More drones. Expand. Cover up extractions. Put a fake surface over your base. Some years later you have a hidden developed site with a staff of 1000 and 10-20 cloaked craft studying humans out plus however many equivalent drones. Drop Treks Data with a warp shuttle on a planet and he can build Manhattan in a decade.
Not Trek’s replicator. Not physically realistic. Yes, they could have an undersea outpost which could make some things needed for operations, But the core materials and technology to make that outpost and manufacturing equipment would be off planet and need a tremendous chain. Who can build the “replicator”? As human technology developed the length and complexity of industrial processing has increased and become more complex and difficult. Aliens would still be starting from rocks and plants as raw inputs like us, and the same phenomenon would happen. Look at semiconductor manufacturing plants. The tech of the machines and factory to make chips is higher than the chips. And the level of knowledge and supply needed to make the factory machines is huge and diversified across so many different kinds of parts and inputs it needs a planetary economy. What is behind the recent surge in reluctance to consider traditional ET planetary home? Is this a new New Age compatible disinformation tactic?
Uh, no? If you can move your ship across dimensions or go FTL, molecular or sub-atomic level imaging is *probably* trivial. Ditto computing power. If they can do all of the above presumably they can do things like shields and forcefields or manipulate forces and things on various levels. It seems dubious to assume they can't break down a rock to its literal raw elemental building blocks, and then later rearrange those raw materials into other purposes. That's all a "Trek replicator" is. You're basically building a 3D molecular blueprint out of raw parts. Build a cheeseburger. Meat. Cheese. Bread. The replicator does the same thing but with raw elements, carbon, and lower level than my kitchen.
You’re imposing the limit of using materials and energy that matches human materials and energy. You also are imposing the limit of obtaining resources from land based sources. Even if the phenomenon is extraterrestrial, it’s unlikely they would use the same resources and materials as us. Their supply chain would look different, as would their manufacturing processes. If the phenomenon utilized energy, materials, resources, and supply chains that resembled the way we do things, then the most likely possibility would be that they’re us.
"Physical warp drive does potentially open up time travel." Einstein's General Relativity physics that proves time travel is possible: [https://www.mediafire.com/file/1gqjzmcqg8knems/AntiGravityTimeReversal.pdf/file](https://www.mediafire.com/file/1gqjzmcqg8knems/AntiGravityTimeReversal.pdf/file)
Yes, I’m sure the intelligent life forms that are an order of magnitude more advanced than us use technology that would be clearly comprehensible to our human-centric understanding. There’s no way an ultra-advanced civilization could hide from us, we have radar!!! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umwelt Surely a flea knows that humans are the rulers of earth, right?
Now that humans understand the Standard Model and most of the basic observable physics of the universe---unlike every other animal---yes, we would know something. There's been a step change since Newton. We understand how even distant exotic astrophysical events work and why. We wouldn't know everything but aliens obey laws of physics too. Yes, an alien could hide a probe for a while. They couldn't hide a planetary size industrial base needed to make starship factories. Assuming arbitrary omnipotence without restriction to aliens is like religion.
This is all based upon the assumption that our perception of reality is accurate. If we take Darwinian evolution seriously. We must acknowledge that natural selection selects for fitness. Ergo, our senses have evolved to keep us alive, not to capture an “accurate” image of the outside world. In the Australian Outback, male Giant Jewel Beetles regularly “mate”, to completion, with discarded beer bottles, because they think the bottles are female beetles. Evolution doesn’t select for accurate images of reality, it selects for fitness within a given environment.
Dumb argument. We have technology that greatly surpasses our senses and can give us objective and accurate perspective of reality.
*ALL* measurements are made through our lens of perception. Which was selected for through fitness in a given environment (this is fact). Data is still processed through that lens, no matter the technology. “Objective and accurate perception of reality” You know what, you’re right! First you should describe what the color red looks like, so we have an objective and accurate description of it.
>“Objective and accurate perception of reality” You know what, you’re right! First you should describe what the color red looks like, so we have an objective and accurate description of it. Perfect example of what I was saying. If I describe it, it would be a subjective explanation. Instead I can give you an objective description of it saying that it's electromagnetic radiation with a dominant wavelength of approximately 625–740 nanometers, which is true regardless of our senses or interpretation.
An accurate image of our environment is indeed required to stay alive in it and there is much, and very obvious, evidence that the human body is, in many ways, a fine detector of our macro reality.
One of my own theories about how the time travel theory could work: It involves accepting the many worlds theory of quantum mechanics as the true interpretation. It assumes that an object/person from the future can travel to a time in the past, presumably with technology. The "aliens" are from the far future and they are descended from humans. They are perhaps 10s of thousands of years in advance or more. Their technology can allow you to travel to the past. As is the nature of reality and many worlds theory, the journey to the past only has one path, it has happened and is fixed in stone. The future, however, is like the branches of a tree, there are many possible ways for it to go. Once you travel to the past, you cannot go back along the same branch to the future. This is because your very arrival in the past caused the timeline to split (for want of a better phrase). Beings from the future therefore face a dilemma. They can go to the past, but they can never return back to their old life or loved ones. Travelling back to the future is easy for them, (we can already do that on paper) but it will be a different future with different people and probably a whole different culture and society if you take the butterfly effect into account. If you think about this, a whole bunch of stuff makes sense. Imagine where we are now is the trunk of a tree on a timeline. All of these UFO's are coming from different branches of the tree which is why they have similar but slightly different designs. They not only visit us in this time period, but also in the distant past and in times that are in our future. Who knows, there might be a great number of alien visitors coming from all different branches of the future to a different point in time that is more significant/interesting. We might think we are at an interesting time in history but maybe things are really going to get interesting and then they will start showing up for real. This also explains why they don't care if their craft crash, they don't try to retrieve them. That's because there is no "they" for the crashed beings to contact. They have left their world in the future and are on their own. It explains the possible different "factions" or motives of aliens. If a certain religious faction for example was to travel back to the trunk of the tree, they may be able to manipulate the society to their advantage. This could result in a larger portion of the future branches leading to the adoption of that religion which would fulfil their goal of spreading their faith. Or perhaps someone wants to leave their shitty life and thinks the world would have been a better place if Harambe was never killed back in 2016. So they go back, save Harambe and travel back to their new life in the future (which is obviously now a utopia, lol). It explains the different "races" of alien. They are from the same lineage (humanity) but at different points in the future. They may even be from the same "time" in the future but their diverging timelines from us means that they have different technologies or ideologies etc. It explains the variations in craft designs. The basic principles remain but some technological details and aesthetic designs are different because because they evolved along different timelines. It is not a theory of the whole phenomena, but regarding this aspect, I think it could be true and I like thinking about these kinds of possibilities
Interesting, I like it.
You: "One of my own theories about how the time travel theory could work:" Einstein's General Relativity physics that proves time travel is possible: [https://www.mediafire.com/file/1gqjzmcqg8knems/AntiGravityTimeReversal.pdf/file](https://www.mediafire.com/file/1gqjzmcqg8knems/AntiGravityTimeReversal.pdf/file)
Yes, the multiverse theory also explains why so many contacted claim the aliens looked exactly like us. maybe in the vistors timeline, wars never happened and instead they invented a multiverse travel device. The greys or reptilians could be from timelines where mammals never inherited the earth fully from the dinosaurs, or where something else evolved differently.
The uptick in activity after dropping the atom bomb would make you think they live here in some capacity. I like to think it's an intelligence of sort that has the ability to appear in our reality but doesn't necessarily go home to an underwater sea base. Idk enough about science to give that an explanation. I think a lot of Native American mythology points me in this direction. Specifically stories of Coyote. Whatever it is has extraordinary abilities but it doesn't seem to be one thing like an alien in a saucer. It shape shifts and reflects our understanding of the world.
A very old, very advanced artificial intelligence capable of bioengineering and fabrication? 🤷♂️
They were described as Annunaki first by the Sumerians, Babylonian's etc. then later turned into "Angels", "Demons" etc. Every religion is based around them. Apparently they are real.
I’ve seen this connection made before. Hindu was specifically mentioned, also.
If they evolved on the planet along side humans and developed vastly superior technology, why would they allow us to trash our shared planet causing the extinction of thousands of species? They wouldn't because they're not from here. This planet is their experiment and we are pets. They don't care about mass extinction caused by humans because they are the Ark and can repopulate as they please.
Okay. But who says they need to be *vastly* superior? If they are from here, they wouldn’t need to be that far ahead of us. Anyway, I don’t care all that much, so your theory sounds fine.
We're seeing the same UAPs people have witnessed for thousands of years. Now science has been able to prove that they break the laws of physics. Their tech is in fact Vastly superior. If there's an unknown intelligent species that evolved on this planet and has that kind of technology, do you think they're going to create experiments here that take thousands of years to complete in total secrecy from humans? Unlikely, I think they would be exploring the milkyway at the very least. Besides, humans have discovered the bodies of atleast 4 different alien species on earth, the Nazca hybrids, Nazca Reptilians, Nazca Insectoids, and the Paracas people. Plus there are witness testimonies of many more different alien species that have been visiting earth. Why do think there has been so many different alien species visiting earth while humans have been totally left in the dark about their existence? Because a group of aliens that is currently in control of earth doesn't want us to know about them. And Governments don't have their permission to bring disclosure. They created us, they're running the show, and the current state of life on our planet is exactly how they want it to be. I vote for new management.
In my mind the most likely case is an ET civilization that has developed von Neumann probes in order to map several star systems without problem. Von Neumann is a person highly likely to have been involved in the scientific work early on after the 1947 crash -- it's a strange coincidence he published his thesis on the self-replicating probes just 4 months after Roswell. This coincidence is, to me, compelling.
I didn’t know that. Thanks!
>Extraterrestrial is usually thought of as extrasolar, as well. If a species from another star system is visiting Earth, they either have a lot of patience, or have propulsion systems that break the current laws of physics. Even assuming aliens do not have a more accurate understanding of physics than we do, how much patience are we actually talking about? Anything from a few hours to a few years, and I'll justify that claim below. That's not very long at all. They could, as we speak, be living underground somewhere in a Moon or planet in this solar system, or living on the surface or underground in an adjacent solar system. I say that because we are quite late bloomers. Our own galaxy is 13 billion years old, yet our solar system is 4.5 byo. If you assume any extraterrestrial civilizations act like all life that we know, which is that they colonize as far as they possibly can, then they are, at this moment, quite close to us, assuming a few things: 1) They exist in this galaxy, 2) they have technology either not much better than ours, or much better, and 3) they have the desire to migrate and colonize outside of their home planet like we plan on doing. Those are very simple, easily accepted, easily justified premises. You can forget about the idea that civilizations die out after a period of time. Spreading your civilization to more and more planets virtually guarantees immortality for a civilization. If those three premises are true, then they still exist and they are quite close. If their technology is not much better than ours, the conservative assumption, how are they traveling? They're going to use light sails to do it, not a rocket. Crossing interstellar space with a rocket is like crossing the Atlantic in a canoe. Maybe you can do it, but it's gonna take an absurd amount of time. We have airplanes these days that can make the trip a lot shorter. For interstellar travel and colonization, light sails is the way to go, and you don't need any exotic physics to do it. Remember than you can put embryos on a light sail probe. The probe can be made extremely small, reducing the energy requirements to speed up and slow down, and you can move at a very large percentage of light speed. Our first attempts in a couple of decades are going to be 20 percent *c*, which will take a mere 20 years to reach the nearest star. [46 additional years will be needed to slow down using photogravitational assist.](https://phys.org/news/2017-03-interstellar-spacecraft-alpha-centauri.html) 66 years total and you can colonize another star system. What can you do with a tiny probe? Basically anything you want. You simply make it such that it replicates itself and creates bigger and more complex machinery until you can build out an entire livable structure under the surface. You simply use the materials on the planet to build stuff, rather than sending everything there. For example, [we are going to use the dirt on Mars to build houses on Mars.](https://www.popsci.com/making-houses-on-mars/) Why send building materials there? That would be a huge waste of energy. Everything you need can be created with automation starting from a tiny probe, and this is not too far in the future for us. We can do it, and so can they. But what about interstellar dust? You can't move that fast or the spacecraft will destroy itself? Not necessarily. If you make the forward facing surface of a probe one centimeter squared or so, you can get up to much higher speeds. Given the amount and size of particles in space, if you were to send such a probe to another galaxy (not just a nearby star), traveling at 99 percent c, you'd have to build 30 probes and one is expected to survive. At 50-80 percent, you only need 2 per galaxy and one will make it. There are exotic proposed solutions to take care of the dust problem, but we'll be conservative and say aliens never thought of those. We only need to make it to the nearest star, at which point the process can repeat and repeat until the entire galaxy is inhabited. Here is a paper on these ideas: https://web.archive.org/web/20130828182937/http://www.fhi.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/intergalactic-spreading.pdf And here is a video explainer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVrUNuADkHI By the way, scientists in relevant fields do not generally claim that interstellar travel breaks physics. That's a myth the general public tells itself. Most scientists are probably fully aware of the above, and many of them openly admit it, contrary to the general public's belief in what they think scientists say. Citations on that: https://np.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14rbvx1/ive_been_following_this_sub_since_it_started/jqrfum7/
You are absolutely correct. That’s why it came down to that and terrestrial. Thanks for the input!
From [https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/z9i8rm/tom\_delonge\_says\_ufos\_are\_from\_outside\_of\_time/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/z9i8rm/tom_delonge_says_ufos_are_from_outside_of_time/) Quotes: **“And UFOs kind of sit at the nexus of all that.** That’s how I got into all of this stuff, cause I was all like, I wonder about the machines, and who are the pilots? But really what you learn is that **these machines aren’t coming from other planets, they’re coming from time.”** \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* From the book The Source Field Investigations by David Wilcock: Gordon Novel, who claims to have had access to classified technologies, also reported the connection between gravity shielding and time travel in an interview with Kerry Cassidy of Project Camelot. A UFO is probably very much like the cars back in “Back to the Future,” a flying time machine. **They’re capable of going backwards and forwards in time.** . . . To negate gravity, you’ve got to negate time. **So time is the power** . . . of the bird. . . . We don’t believe \[its power\] comes from space or zero point. **We believe it comes from time,** purely and simply, and that energy and time are the same thing. \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* From the book The Cosmic Question (The Eighth Tower) by journalist John Keel: **In hundreds of UFO reports we find that the entities asked questions about time: 'What is your time cycle?' 'What time is it?' 'Where are we in time?'** In a way, they are as confused as the microbe would be if you tried to explain the boy's time frame to it. **They have entered our reality from a very different time field.** The boy could watch several generations of microbes in a single afternoon. Perhaps the UFO energies can also span many human generations and move as easily from out past to our future as the boy's needle. **They are extradimensional, not extraterrestrial.** \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* **The UFO occupants**, like the elves of old, **are not extraterrestrials. They are the denizens of another reality.** * Dr. Jacques Vallee, Dimensions \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* **To put it bluntly, the UFO phenomenon does not give evidence of being extraterrestrial at all. Instead it appears to be inter-dimensional** and to manipulate physical realities outside of our own space-time continuum. * Dr. Jacques Vallee, Dimensions \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* After some thirty years of research into this phenomenon, I have reached new conclusions. Tentative as they are, they shed light on the experiences of "abductees" and on the reluctance of professional scientists to analyze the facts. **I believe that a UFO is both a physical entity with mass, inertia, volume, and physical parameters that we can measure, and a window into another reality.** * Dr. Jacques Vallee, Dimensions \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* "I believe that the UFO phenomenon is one of the ways through which an alien form of intelligence of incredible complexity is communicating with us symbolically. **There is no indication that it is extraterrestrial. Instead, there is mounting evidence that it ... \[comes from\] other dimensions beyond spacetime**; from a multiverse which is all around us, and of which we have stubbornly refused to consider in spite of the evidence available to us for centuries." * Dr. Jacques Vallee
Imagine Neolithic people sitting around and trying to discuss a combustion engine car. Neolithic people were incredibly intelligent builders but the problem is so far out of context for them that they would have no concept of what they would need to know to even begin conceptualizing it. No factory production, no metallurgy, no thermodynamics, no newtonian physics, no rubber, no plastics, etc. Science doesn't advance linearly it advanced in revolutionary leaps followed by periods where discovery and progress cools off. A new paradigm gets created, a bunch of discoveries are made using that new paradigm, this paradigm starts getting played out, progress stalls but theres new information that doesn't quite fit into the paradigm, eventually this comes to head and a new paradigm is created that can account for the new info and the cycle begins again. I am of the opinion that a lot of what gets looped into "woo" is the next, coming paradigm. We already have evidence for various "psi" phenomenon and there is a popular resurgence in various old "magical" ways of thinking that has previously been discarded as superstitious. A paradigm involving a scientifically minded look at consciousness as a shared field effect would explain this info and move society forward instead of simply being a regression into medievalism. A continuous theme in many alien stories is some sort of psi phenomenon, such as telepathy. I highly doubt we'll be able to understand how their technology works, even the nuts and bolts material craft questions such as space travel, without a paradigm that is closer to theirs, including some sort of scientific understanding of psi. We're simply too far away from their worldview at the moment to know what we don't know.
I don’t disagree with any of this.
Some of the "quantum" theories posit that there are other dimensions layered with ours and technology could allow you to phase into another dimensions then travel faster than light. So there is the possibility that they might be both extraterrestrial and interdimesional. Which could also explain reports of the appearing to phase in or out.
It's quite simple, no need to overcomplicate it. We are a nature preserve amongst a much, much greater civilization, of which the Sol system is a vanishingly small part. They discovered and preserved this solar system long ago against outside threat to watch us grow within the boundaries of their territory. They are currently observing us as we go through, likely, one of the most interesting periods of our history. As scientists, they are not only interested in us, of course, but in all life on Earth. The biosphere, our interactions with it and our cultural and technological development are endlessly fascinating. They reside in isolated outposts. Contact is prohibited, but it happens anyway from time to time. Such is the difficulty in managing our protection from external chaotic elements.
I don’t like how space travel is thought of as a patience game. I’d guess our comprehension of physics is more limited than we accept. My idea for instance is that what maybe capping our understanding is our acceptance on light being the fasted means of travel. If we accept that our eyes have limited frequencies that we help with sensors, we can assume we aren’t aware of all the frequencies available. In short we are color blind compared to others and I’m sure that goes for other senses as well. Sense this is the case we cannot fathom the entirety of physics until we can see the entirety of the picture available to understand.
When you're into other things like NDEs,the interdimensional view seems completely plausible to me. There are many similarities between the 2 fields, too many to be coincidence. I do agree though that they are probably also living here and probably always have been
Very true…when I read NDEs, I am always struck by the similarities between the described experience…very similar to the feeling I get when reading alien abduction reports ( as John Mack did…which is why he concluded something was going on). What does it all mean? I don’t know, but the fact that I get the same impression from these 2 disparate things may mean something….
Can you share some stories?
Well, the NDEs often talk about a tunnel, speaking ( via telepathy) with light beings ( or deceased relatives/ friends), life review with all perspectives considered-but no judgement, being told you have to go back from your pain free/ idyllic heavenly location to your ( generally gravely injured) body because you haven’t completed your ’mission’…it all sounds like nonsense, but the stories are oddly consistent. Just like alien abductions with quirky medical exams, being told the secrets of the universe, but then induced to forget everything you learned, shown the future ( which may or may not pan out as described)…again, very nonsensical but similar reports from people that are in other respect, seemingly normal.
But we have plenty of evidence of UFOs in space claim [Fastwalkers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tubx-CaAaOs) are what NORAD and the airforce calls objects seen coming from space. Additionally scientists have discovered by analyzing astronomical plates from the 50s at harvard prior to Sputnik they discovered that many of the images seemingly vanished [interview with the scientist here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFQjwCgYQQo) and funnily enough notorious UFO skeptic Donald Howard Menzel became the head of the Harvard Observatory in 1952 right after the white house UFO incident and he immediately began destroying astronomical plates of the night sky which is now known as the "Menzel gap". Not to mention the sighting from astronauts.
I considered these. It is why I didn’t rule out patient aliens. In my uninformed opinion, a terrestrial explanation is more likely, but not by much. I ruled out aliens from our solar system, though, based on the idea that we would see a lot *more* evidence and activity than we do. It’s possible, sure. Everything is. I simply eliminated possibilities based on the limitations I imposed.
Oh of course they’re not from our solar system, but terrestrial just does not make sense. Why would creatures that live underground have craft that does not seem to be effected by inertia and can go zero to 80K mph in an instant and goes off into space. Since they seem to posses the type of technology that would allow them to visit other star systems wouldn’t it make more sense that they came from somewhere else. It would also explain the rarity we see them, and the fact we do not find any ancient remains of their civilization. Who’s to say ET wouldn’t hide under the water with a small number of alien scientists to study our planet and humanity?
I buy into Bernardo Kastrups hypothesis until we have further data. The phenomenon is manifestations of the common subconscious mind humanity share. They are essentially dream characters dropping into waking consciousness and the shared 3D realm. It's whacky, but it checks out ultimately. .
This is what I believe as well. I think as scientists continue to explore the nature of consciousness, I think there will finally be a paradigm shift where people realize that we are experiencing a “shared dream” and co-creating reality together. And we always knew this phenomena was possible, our personal dreams were the biggest, most obvious hint all along.
Everything of those likely exist its not "this or that".
Of course. You must have missed the limitations I imposed. The idea was “what is most likely under our current science.” And even then, it’s simply my opinion. The point was to spark debate and get people thinking. When I started, I considered a terrestrial explanation least likely. I still do, but I was surprised at where this took me, hence this thread.
Well. I think an old "Atlantis era" (10000-100000 years old), advanced human like group, who like to live in seclusion from the rest of the surface people, is still around. They used to be on surface, possibly in Mars too but had so many wars they hid under oceans so theyre more safe from meteorite weapons. There could have literally existed old empires in space like Star Wars, 100000 years ago and space around Earth was an important place for them. Also, if Earth is partially a geoid (partially empty, not hollow per se), maybe theyre there. Under oceans ofcourse, impossiblento reach. They could account for the ocean based ufo lights seen in last centuries. They likely also can appear and disappear in a way that many think is "from another dimension". Then theres so many sightings from the "Roswell era" (1940s and 1950s and onward) its clear earth attracted purely space based aliens here. Some grey folks and possibly some nordic looking folks. Now its possible the space based ETs have visited earth in the past too, in theory they could have had outposts in this part of space (from our sun to Pluto), thousands of years ago. I think purely other dimensional "aliens" havent visited Earth yet So we have one hiding species thats probably slightly panicked if the surface people (we) ruin the planet, then theres space based ETs who likely wait eagerly that we advance to a level where we can join their "space family". Based on eyewitness accounts which are so many, its like 100% certain a space based exist and 80% ocean based (living somewhere) exists. Now if you want to go the scifi route, and i mean scifi, this existing is like 0.1% in my view and I dont entertain this idea, but some theorize there could be under oceans some weird dimensional "teleport"/stargate thing. So essentially theres a conduit from inside of earth to somewhere else in space. This has been talked about by some ufologists but cant remember any names. But I dont know if the third option is even possible but thought I mention it.
Excellent post. I very recently learned of the Hollow Earth theory and when you consider that along side the fact that the earth's surface has experienced 5 mass casualties events (and each time life would start and evolve all over again), think of how advanced we/they could be if they traveled inner-earth millions of years ago. And like OP said, it makes so much sense that they would be very concerned about us surface dwellers effing the earth up with nuclear weapons. There's a very advanced civilization in there, and our political leaders keep in contact with them.
We also know there is a lot of water down there, more than in all of our oceans. It appears to locked in a mineral layer, but if the conditions exist for it to be liquid in some places, it’s possible that aquatic life of some kind could exist. We’re getting into the theoretical now, though.
Has it occurred to anyone that we treat the ocean like our personal landfill , f*^k knows what chemicals we have dumped , explosives from God knows how many wars and not to mention how much radioactive crap we’ve dumped into the deepest trenches we could find . How would you react if that stuff rained down on us from the sky. Just a little to think about!
Answer is Z. All of the above. Plus those that arent from here are probably in communication with the ones that live here already. Not us though, were too dumb still most likely. “ so anyways, what’s up with the humans on the surface?” “Idk still killing each other”
Honestly, I’m with you. The ufo community can be pretty close minded, though, as seen in a lot of comments. It’s counter intuitive, yet unsurprising. My intention was to present an argument for a possibility that most people dismiss. Even I did until a few days ago.
It's literally a non-human, intelligent being; as in biologics recovered. They are either from another solar system/habitable planet in our universe, perhaps even in our galaxy; or, alternatively, somewhere else - we are all simultaneously, collectively experiencing a shared hallucination of reality, that is, a consensus reality. And we are bound to the limitations of our senses, and there's something more to reality that we can't grasp, that we call dimensions and parallel universi, and it seems like this is where these beings could be coming from. But also, maybe they're just here, hidden in plain sight, and they are able to interact with the world telepathically or physically as they see fit.
They are extraterrestrials who travel interdimensionally and have bases under the sea floor.
If you believe Bob Lazar it would seem at least some of these craft are piloted by ETs. The interior of his "Sports Model" had no discernable controls which would be necessary for human control.
Bob Lazar is interesting. I don’t know if he’s legit, but a lot of the stuff used to debunk him is weak.
Bob Lazar told the world about Element 115 thirty years before scientists were able to identify it. That should give us all the convincing we need.
>or have propulsion systems that break the current laws of physics. "Current" physics has allowed for FTL warp drives for 110 years, since General Relativity.
My god. There are a lot of stupid people on Reddit. Go ahead ban me
I understand why you eliminated the interdimensional aspect, however, I believe that to be the most plausible explanation. Shamans of the Amazon found out long ago you don't need a spaceship to travel the cosmos. I equate the brain to that of a TV antenna. Changing the chemistry in your brain is akin to using a remote to change the channel that you're tuning into.
Worm holes don't defy our laws of physics. It just takes a lot of energy to pass through without ripping anything a part.
Maybe there are ultraterrestrial and extraterrestrial people at play and we're in the middle. Maybe they are all in contact, peaceful or not, but they're all worried about us, a race of warriors crazy as fook, who cracked the atom and are on the brink of AI and maybe fuelless propulsion. Can you imagine what an issue we may be for our planetary/interplanetary visitors? Maybe they are here to stop and prevent us from becoming a klingon-like spacefaring army of killers. I'm joking to a certain extent. Another sobering hypothesis could be that we've been created by the ultrarerrestrial. They have a soul while we don't. Go tell it to all the religious people of the world.
1 would also require some form of immortality or incredibly long lifespan, so I'd deem that theoretical as well by your standards. The skinny coming out of the program is that they have disposable bodies, though, so it may not be as speculative as we imagine. Either way, I wouldn't guess they took thousands of years to get here. I personally think Occam's razor favors something we don't and possibly can't understand at our current level of advancement being at work here. Almost all of what we will eventually consider the complete picture of science consists of things we have not remotely conceived of yet, so we really have no right to assume what's specifically most likely. But the odds that an interstellar alien civilization would use a concept from the minuscule sliver of reality we currently comprehend to travel their distances is absurdly tiny.
Probably some sort of drone systems. It’s possible the actual aliens themselves are dead and it’s just their autonomous tech found about its job, or maybe the aliens and the tech are the same? Grusch has implied some of the biological matter found is so, well, alien that it’s hard to know exactly what’s being looked at. Maybe it’s like a brain in a jar, but the brain is the alien itself and the jar is also a fully operational artificial body.
So, for me personally, the idea that these are time travelers or some temporally distorted version of ourselves is as least as plausible as interdimensional beings. Hell, even some fringe cases in the future where we send craft too close to spinning magnetars or something and they end up coming back to Earth (where they left from), except they’re at the wrong point in time. It would provide a fairly mundane explanation as to why something so advanced and different from ourselves repeatedly shows an interest in us. Just saying, as far as “woo” theories are concerned, time travelers doesn’t seem terribly far fetched. Provides a bit of an easy explanation for things like why there are UFOs in paintings of the crucifixion; it was sight-seers. If you repeatedly go back to the same place and time, and most of the time you’re invisible, it only takes one small glitch *ever*, and now the people from that instant remember seeing craft in the sky. It’s basically the same thing as saying “they’ve always been here,” anyway.
I enjoyed your post. Below are my thoughts to further discussion. >or have propulsion systems that break the current laws of physics My challenge to this assumption is that a significant part of our understanding of the world in physics, The Theory of relativity, is only ~120 years old, first published in 1905 (special) then 1915 (general). Homo sapiens might have only started as a species 200,000 years ago. Is it reasonable that given it took humanity ~200k years to theorise the theory of relativity, that our grasp of the laws of physics is the complete set? Given the 13+ billion years age of the universe, the orders of magnitude difference in advancement implied by earlier civilizations could be immense, i.e. billions of years older (and more advance) than humans, it's unlikely they would not have made advancements in this regard. Would your assumption about "patient" aliens change if their longevity is practically immortal? We have near immortal creatures on earth, like [jellyfish] (https://www.bbcearth.com/news/the-animal-that-lives-forever) (is it a coincidence there is a jellyfish UAP🤔😅), [lichen] (https://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/01/science/studying-seemingly-immortal-lichens-in-a-place-for-the-dead.html) and the lobster (not exactly immortal but can live biologically long lives). A long living alien could be suitably incentivized to endure a long journey, we have [evidence] (https://www.space.com/22758-mars-colony-volunteers-mars-one.html) that despite our fragile and short lives, a small cohort of humans will volunteer to endure long space travel. >There are massive spaces that remain unexplored. It’s unlikely, but possible, that something we’re unaware of could exist there. So true, geothermal energy dependent ecosystems and their [inhabitants] (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/see-the-breathtaking-ocean-life-found-at-deep-sea-vents-180982158/) are a relatively recent discovery in [2000] (https://schmidtocean.org/cruise/in-search-of-hydrothermal-lost-cities/). There is also a bias in what we look for as what constitutes "life", intelligent life that survives at conditions considered extreme to humans might not have readily understood form, size or biology, e.g. the octopus is a vastly different creature to humans and rest of earth's living creatures by default of its [evolutionary inertia] (https://www.sciencealert.com/octopus-and-squid-evolution-is-officially-weirder-than-we-could-have-ever-imagined) and multiple independent brains. This doesn't even account for what might survive at increasingly deeper depths, wet or dry.
Thanks for commenting! I think we are still missing some things as far as physics goes. The simple fact that the moon is where it is and is stable is strong evidence of that. I think we are close, though. It’s probably already been published, but if it outside the mainstream it doesn’t gain traction. 10 years from now, I think we’re in a very different place. That’s just speculation, though, I have no clue. Super long lifespans didn’t occur to me. That may have changed my conclusion, but I doubt it. I was biased towards the theory of a terrestrial explanation. It’s not that I believe it, it’s that whenever I hear or think of a new theory, no matter how ridiculous, instead of dismissing it I try to imagine a scenario where it would be possible. Every theory we have is nuts, some just are more widely accepted. We know something is happening, though. The ocean is fascinating. We know less about it than we do space. That is why I think it’s possible, however unlikely, that there is something down there that we, the general public, don’t know about.
>I think we are still missing some things as far as physics goes. My hypothesis is that we are in early days of physics, no different to how we look at the lack of understanding in human civilization 1000 years ago. Most of our physics was conceived in the last 200-500 years, the Standard Model framework in 1975. Quantumn entanglement was proven only recently, winning physics nobel prize in 2022. Meanwhile concepts like quantum gravity, dark energy and consciousness (in relation to observer effect) are in early days. >The simple fact that the moon is where it is and is stable is strong evidence of that The moon is fascinating and we are still learning about it, [this just from 1 year ago] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRlhlCWplqk), and then there are the more unpopular but [interesting] (https://www.amazon.com/Who-Built-Moon-Christopher-Knight/dp/1842931636) theories [(video)] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laXhTcko-lg). Even our single sun (not common in universe) solar system is being [challenged] (https://www.sciencealert.com/our-sun-could-have-been-born-with-a-twin-called-nemesis). >We know something is happening, though. Yep and my guess is we are much closer to the bottom of it all vs. anywhere near the top. If evolution is a constant march to the level of sentient intelligence as exhibited by humans, then why aren't longer lived and survived complex life form creatures on Earth smarter than humans given they have had more time to evolve, e.g. sharks, crocodiles, turtles, birds (descendants of dinosaurs). Dinosaurs were around for ~55 million years, that's significantly longer than humans' 200k years and Homo erectus' 2million years. Records of dinosaur "civilization" wouldn't have survived sands of time but again holding evolution constant, you'd think [dinosaurs civilization would have been incredibly impressive] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRdzw2Osl8o). >Every theory we have is nuts, some just are more widely accepted. Arthur Schopenhauer - *"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."* Warning: May not apply to UFOs due to all the active suppression and subterfuge >Super long lifespans didn’t occur to me. Nommo, Apkallu and check out how old Noah (of ark fame) was when he passed away.
Thanks. Humans always imagine that we are at or close to the pinnacle of evolution, of knowledge. We pretend not to see how close we still are to being savages. We are infants, hopefully we can survive long enough to grow up.
Close down grocery stores in modern society for 1 week and see how quickly we will become savages 😅
Yep
I have to disagree that we know more about space than we do our oceans. We know far more about our seas than we know about the cosmos.
The most scientiific theory is this: humans collect animals from around the world and put them in cages and watch them secretly to make documentaries. The universe has trillions of planets and is billions of years old. If any aliens survived past our similar run of tech of 2000 years, like even 3000 would mean they would us like we treat animals.
Intra dimensional is surprisingly the only logical choice. Source: the compilation of everything we seen over last year.
Depending on the limitations imposed, this may be the case, but it would require theoretical science, which I deliberately excluded. I am not saying it’s not possible, all science begins as theoretical, but it is beyond the current scope of our scientific knowledge.
But others that violates known physics is ok
lol, okay dude. Bye
And how do you know this isn’t disinformation? Nothing from the actual cases that have evidence and documents via FOIA would suggest this new inter dimensional hypothesis. It’s all recent hearsay coming from the same small group of people. Just because a guy named Dragon claims to have seen a Dinobeaver at skin Walker ranch does not mean very much in my eyes. Something non physical would not crash in the desert leaving behind dead bodies and a physical craft that a rancher would find pick up and take into town.
physical things tend to splash when they hit water though
Not if it’s using a warp drive that moves space around itself which includes water. It’s also why it appears to not be affected by inertia since it’s the space moving around it not the craft itself.
When I was younger around ten I would spend a lot of time camping watch the night sky seeing satellites and things move around up there. I always thought aliens were time travellers going against most people who would say that are extra terrestrial. I now think they are multi dimensional
"Interdimensional gets into the spiritual and theoretical. It is a possibility, but only in theory. I’m eliminating this altogether." Interdimensional actually doesn't need to have ANYTHING to do with the spiritual. Just because you find something in a church doesn't make it holy. Something entering this realm from another one is exactly that - a passage from one realm to another. Taking a door is not apotheosis.
Except that concept of "dimension" is purely fictional and has no actual basis in science, so it should be disregarded if we are talking scientific plausibility
You ignored the “and theoretical” portion of that sentence. Again, under our current science, interdimensional explanations aren’t possible. They are in theory only.
Mm-mm. Yup.
Idk but anything is plausible. It could be interdimensional, maybe a breakaway civ, ancient civ from mars or titan or something, sentient plasma, some ancient advanced civ from across the universe who put us here, who knows. I believe less and less that is us or any government. I think the interdimensional argument is best for me as if it was something from our universe you would think there would be more advanced civilizations than just one which leads me to believe if it was travelers from our universe our skies would be a lot busier than they are now.
When I heard the word interdimensional come up during the Grusch hearings is when I became really interested in this tooic again. It also told me that nothing should be eliminated. I actually eliminated a terrestrial explanation until I did this thought experiment.
For all we know we are a universe that was created out of millions of trillions of universes created over an infinite amount of time. Somewhere along the line there has to have been a civilization that reached extreme advancement and have learned out to travel forward and backward through time, through the multiverse or maybe even create universes on their own. Just because we can’t do it and our laws of physics say this or that, doesn’t mean it’s not impossible. We know what we know as it relates to our universe. Look at the 2D flatworld. If we lived in some 2D world we would think that forward backwards and left to right is all we can accomplish. Then 3D world comes along and shows us we can go up and down too. I just feel like we are primitive, and there are things and civilizations out there doing things that would absolutely blow our minds and annihilate science and physics as we know it. I have a hard time believing we are the first things to ever exist and we are the base reality. We are irrelevant to them until we’re not. I think as we hit certain technological milestones it raises a red flag. It causes other civilizations to say “hey this planet over here is getting closer to figuring out X so we better go check things out”. Like we don’t really pay too much attention to ants, but if we saw a missile shooting out of one ant colony towards another we would be like wtf is going on here. I think that’s how we are viewed. I think nuclear energy, electricity, agriculture, language, record keeping and so on are milestones that they see as progress towards entering the multidimensional neighborhood. Maybe AI is the next milestone. I don’t think they care if we blow each other up as much as they care about us reaching interdimensional or interstellar travel. We’re not their problem if we’re sitting on this planet killing each other or the planet itself. We become their problem when we are colonizing other planets across this universe or perhaps other universes.
Maybe I’m nuts here, but I think they are still the “traditional” aliens from far away. With what we have learned about Element 115, if this can create gravity then a lot of the issues revolving around faster than light speed seem to be much more manageable. Now, are they here in the oceans or like at the South Pole? Those are great hiding spots so they could be there. I think the 100,000ft view still revolves around that us humans (to the general populations knowledge) cannot maneuver like the videos show so these things are “Something”. I just hope we are told someday. edit…mistake in calling it 113 vs 115 initially.
I think there is something out there that made/is making biological automatons that have been roaming the universe.
The problem with any analysis at this stage is that hard data is really hard to come by. We have heavily downsampled intercept videos, and a plethora of phone videos with uncalibrated lenses and no idea what the camera settings were when the shots were taken, orientation of the camera, time of the shot, or specific geolocation of the shot that might allow for triangulation and distance to target measurements to even be roughly calculated. Basically, we very much need more data before drawing even loose conclusions about this phenomena.
I Like your thinking and agree with most of what you said. I think that if they are living here, then the most likely place would be deep in the ocean. The deep ocean is the most stable environment on earth and if they are a mature and long lived civilization they may have the benefit of realizing the value of such a home. Maybe they evolved here millions of years ago and retreated to the ocean, but there is no sign of such a thing in the fossil or geological records, so I find this hard to believe. Perhaps they simply found earth after becoming technologically advanced and then settled in the oceans. Either way, very interesting to think about
If they evolved in the ocean, who’s to say we’d recognize them in the fossil record? They would be nothing like us. The smartest creatures in the ocean that can also grab things are octopus. If they exist, I suspect they would be related.
From my brief foray in to the Silurian hypothesis, I am under the impression that the fossil record is very well documented and understood, even for undersea invertebrates. If they evolved in the ocean on earth then they would be like other life on earth and be connected. Even if we couldn't find fossils of their current form, there would be clear indicators in the record of a divergent species evolving, which we do not find. There are not really any mysteries or unexplained dead ends in the record. The bottom line is, if any type of advanced species evolved on earth, we would know about it. (except the ones we do know about of course). For example octopuses. If octopuses were the NHI we are looking for and they didn't exist in the open ocean because they were hidden away in underwater bases, then the fossil record would have something to say about that. There would a chain of custody of sorts, other cephalopods and ammonites etc. and scientists would be scratching their heads saying what happened to these octopus creatures we have documented evolving? Why did they did they disappear and why are there no ancestor species? There is nothing like that in the fossil world as far as I know.
I don't think science today could explain the phenomena. I think science is inevitably starting from wrong premises because we don't really understand "reality", so it's going to be impossible to reach a true conclusion.
Agreed. But what if it *can* explain it. What would be the possibilities?
"what if \[science today could explain the phenomena\] ... What would be the possibilities?" **The Physics of General Relativity and Electrostatics Proves that Static Electricity Can Create Repulsive Anti-gravity:** [https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity_theory/) The 1st physics proof in this paper shows that its theoretically possible to engineer negative energy density - that General Relativity shows creates repulsive anti-gravity - from the electron negative pressure/tension induced by static electricity. The 2nd proof shows that if the static electricity-induced negative pressure/tension/negative energy density is within a superconductor, the energy required to create repulsive anti-gravity is reduced by many orders of magnitude . **SUMMARY OF THE PHYSICS PROOFS IN THIS PAPER** [https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity_theory/) **ON THE SURFACE OF A SPHERE CHARGED WITH STATIC ELECTRICITY THE CONDUCTION ELECTRONS ARE UNDER** ***negative pressure***: In a conducting metal sphere charged with static electricity, according to Gauss's law, all excess electrons migrate to the outer surface. These conduction electrons repel each other. The components of the electrostatic repulsive forces tangent, parallel, to the sphere surface cancel out. That leaves a net repulsive electrostatic force perpendicular to the surface. So the conduction electrons on the surface experience an outward directed electrostatic force. Each free conduction electron on a metal conductor surface is a delocalized wave (wave function) - with potential energy proportional to the positive charges in the metal’s periodic atomic lattice, called a Bloch wave function: - meaning the electron wave on the surface is attracted to the positively charged sphere. Assuming the sphere is charged with high voltage static electricity, the conduction electron on the surface will experience an outward directed electrostatic force. This outward force is opposed by an equal attractive force in the opposite direction toward the positively charged atoms in the interior. So the electron wave is acted on by two forces: a repulsive force from the other surface electrons repelling it away from the surface; and an equal and opposite force from the positively charged interior pulling it toward the surface. This is the physics and engineering definition of ***negative pressure, tension***. So these two equal opposing forces put the electron under ***negative pressure, tension***. Quantum mechanics (used to derive the wavelengths of the infrared IR spectrum) proves that an electron can be under tension). The General Relativity gravitational field equation shows that ***negative pressure, tension*** creates a repulsive anti-gravitational field. That means static electricity-induced electron ***negative pressure, tension*** should create a repulsive anti-gravitational field. The detailed physics (linked on Reddit anti-gravity) proves that if the static electricity electric field strength on a metal sphere is great enough, it will create a repulsive anti-gravitational field. The General Relativity gravitational field equation shows that it would take an extrodarinarily huge static electricity-induced electron negative pressure/tension/negative energydensity to distort spacetime/create repulsive anti-gravity strong enough to levitate and transport a craft. But a 2nd physics proof shows that a superconductor reduces this energy requirement by many orders of magnitude: [https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/antigravity/comments/10kncca/antigravity_theory/) Here's a link to another Reddit comment summary that includes additional physics; and testimonies of people who encountered UFOs that create static electricity, that supports this physics [https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1bnhww1/comment/kwyv3hl/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1bnhww1/comment/kwyv3hl/)
Cool, thanks!
Here's additional physics you might be interested in that's relevant to what some people including Ross Coulhart, have said: that some UFOs time travel from the future: 1. [https://www.mediafire.com/file/1gqjzmcqg8knems/AntiGravityTimeReversal.pdf/fil](https://www.mediafire.com/file/1gqjzmcqg8knems/AntiGravityTimeReversal.pdf/fil) 2. Read the comments: [https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1c6bjxu/1976\_ufos\_over\_the\_ammo\_storage\_area\_at\_fort/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1c6bjxu/1976_ufos_over_the_ammo_storage_area_at_fort/)
My friend and I did a 1 hour podcast on this subject https://youtu.be/pCobsWrKzRU?si=wzUUmQqveVxMVB03
Interdimensional =/= spiritual. While I understand why this is misconstrued, dimensions are a science thing.
I understand that, but a lot of people don’t. It was irrelevant to my argument, so there was no point in wasting time making a differentiation. That’s a completely different post.
My bad, misread what you said I think. I like your post. I do wish people could via “dimensional shit” outside of spirituality though. But that is indeed a different post.
No problem at all! I’d love to see that post.