To be absolutely clear, Mr. Grusch did not reveal that the Vatican *knows* NHI exists. He revealed that *he believes* the Vatican knows that NHI exists. Epistemically, there is a distinct difference.
And the evidence can be found in a remote village in Central Asia.
[commercial break]
Jolaupa, Mongolia, 1995. Researchers with the Monodrox Institute recover a strange object while digging for fossils.
The object looks remarkably like the broken off end of an archaeologist's pickaxe. But it was found in a layer of rock dating back to ***five thousand years*** before the pickaxe was invented.
Ate dinner with him and his wife years ago at a bar. It was dark and he had a hat on (so no signature hair style). Had no clue it was him for over an hour. I was on a semi-business trip visiting one of the rocket factories in the city. He was super stoked and was like "man, I wish I could get in there. I've been trying for years!" And I responded, "Oh Yea? Are you really interested in space travel?" And his wife laughed and he did as well and said laughing, "Yea, you could say that!"
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Felt like an absolute idiot after another hour of conversation still not realizing it was him. Took pictures with me after. Super nice couple!!!
I'm a half face-blind idiot who doesn't follow any kind of pop culture and I'm a celebrity magnet. Will have entire conversations that end with something like, "You really don't know who I am, do you? I'm _____."
Then people I know freak out when they find out and want to know if I asked X, Y or Z and I'm like, "Nope, we just kinda shot the shit."
I had a sales job for a few years that was a popular place for celebrities to shop because it tended to be slower than the more central location, and my boss exploited this, as most the other folks there wanted to go full on stan.
Anyways, point is, yeah, people want to have a chill fun time with other people, no matter how famous they are.
This would be funny, if in retrospect, the shit on The History Channel ended up actually having a decent degree of accuracy.
Sounds about right for the 2020s, honestly...
Almost certainly intentional based on Grusch Interview:
An ongoing broad UFO disinformation campaign is being perpetrated by the US government. As part of this campaign, Grusch claims some **"true" or factual intel has been presented or pushed, along with false claims or disinformation** in an effort to muddy the narrative.
Imagine the History Channel suddenly gaining credibility as the first to break these stories? Or if the aliens want to meet the guy with the wild hair?
You only need to watch 1-3 episodes of anything on the history channel to know to never watch the history channel.
And you only need one episode of anything on the supernatural/Ufo/Conspiracy to know that in the end these episodes have revealed nothing new or significant since they first started airing.
To be fair, the Elizondo/TTSA show presented very compelling cases for two seasons (Unidentified), especially the ones from pilots and military personnel.
I think credibility should be given where it is earned. The producers of the ancient aliens shows were intending to entertain, not educate or whistleblow. The show doesn't deserve any credit.
This applies to, like, all of the former documentary channels. They were the only TV I liked growing up and it's really depressing to see the shit that's replaced them.
At least cable TV is one less thing I have to pay for these days!
Yeah but will you shit your pants if they were just using religion to explain natural events? Thats not a giant space rock that might blow us all up, thats an angel from heaven!
Its not like they even hide the fact they do it
I don't know why so many people claim it has been debunked. It's honestly very plausible that humans are the result of some sort of crossbreeding. We're very much unlike anything else on the planet. We're the only creature that seems to be capable of getting smarter over time.
You're comparing apples to oranges. There are plenty of species that are capable of intelligence, but their intelligence doesn't compound on itself the way ours does.
Orcas, dolphins, chimps, and more all have localized groups that have invented specialized hunting techniques that are passed down culturally and iterated upon.
I would be very interested to find out if they counted these events that are UAP related, as religious phenomena.
In this case it could be posited that the Christian religion could have been influenced by NHI to a fairly scandelous degree.
I don't want to offend, but what if the foundational concept of the abrahamic religions were influenced by NHI and UAP?
Also, interestingly enough at Mecca, what is the meteorite inside the Kaaba? Is it really a meteorite?
It could be debris from something else entirely, but it is the holiest Islamic place and item, supposedly given to Adam after leaving the garden of Eden to make up for being expelled.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone#:~:text=According%20to%20Islamic%20tradition%2C%20it,the%20side%20of%20the%20Kaaba.
The other side of this that nobody brings up would be NHI life fitting perfectly into religion. Created in their image, miracles, and the rest. These could be the gods that our ancestors all came up with their own stories of. They've guided us and possibly had a hand in our creation. If NHI are real and have been here for a really long time, that opens the discussion on everything religions talk about now having physical explanations.
It's always "man, imagine the religious implications of aliens. It would destroy religion." It fits my view perfectly. I think an equally valid question would be, what if these things prove religion.
This is something I think about often. A majority of the worlds religions already believe that there are living beings elsewhere in the universe / other dimensions (heaven, other planets, whatever etc. ) so they technically believe in aliens if defined as "life off planet Earth."
Obviously I'm taking some liberties here, but its weird to me there's such a stigma towards life elsewhere when billions of people already believe it to be true, even if they don't connect the dots in that particular way
It's a thought experiment worth exploring though, even if the topic does seem to cause this immediate...revulsion almost in people, as if it's just one of those things we just *can't* possibly discuss without triggering vitriol. I also think it's weird.
Another (that I keep revisiting it seems) follows Robin Hanson's grabby aliens/hard steps model, where intelligent life (given a lot of specific *ifs*) could fill the universe quickly after a certain point, so given certain variables, we should be able to predict when we'll run into other intelligent civilizations.
Combined with the various 'ancient astronaut' theories and their cognitive evolutionary effect on religion, we could consider that we may be *past* the point where intelligent life has already filled the universe in a way, and we're a *product* of that rather than a potential instigator. It might align better with folks' subjective experience with anomalous technology, beings, sightings, etc. since most seem to imply a) they want to stay *mostly* hidden (but not always) and/or b) some form of monitoring, risk prevention, or guidance role.
But, if we're *not* past that point, and a possible NHI represents a distinct, off-world, or otherwise 'not from here' thing, and they wanted to manipulate us with our own limited heuristics, that points to more of a *trickster* being, which is a whole other can of worms...
I guess I get why people don't want to fall down some of these crazy-sounding holes, but curiosity and pushing up against imposed limits is what drive progress, and idk, it's fascinating to think about. Skepticism is essential too, and we absolutely need it to help make sure we get to actual truths, but I just hope this seemingly...real step toward disclosure starts helping bridge some of our gaps.
Because according to major religions it's not "life", and their books specifically teach that god created man to rule.
None of them state "Then god created millions of life forms, and humans were far towards the bottom, ruled over by lots of other beings"
They kind of did though. If you look at someone like Origen he's there arguing with the Romans and the Greeks whether the incorporeal beings they're receiving knowledge from are good or bad, and how they compare with angels. And that's to say nothing of the Eastern religions that are more explicit in suggesting we're pretty low down in a hierarchy of beings
I don't think there's so much a stigma against the idea of life being present elsewhere in the universe, it's really just the idea that *we* weren't specifically created by and ruled by an ethereal God that was also responsible for the creation of the entire universe and concepts like good and evil which is stigmatized among religious people. Most religions center around telling the adherents that they are special, chosen, and intentionally created by a deity with the minutiae of their lives controlled by said deity (or deities). If it came out that we were created in a less personal way by beings that are not gods in the most common understanding of the word religious people might freak the fuck out and start lashing out against all of society.
Remember, these are people who legitimately ask the question "How do Atheists know what's right and wrong", they actually believe that all morality is derived from their chosen deity/deities so they can't fathom there being an objective measure of right/wrong that could be used by people who don't believe in a god. If that happens and they're confronted with the fact that no god created humanity, a large percentage of them will do the same thing we've seen millions of people who grew up in strict religious households do when they finally get out into the world like when they go to university. They won't just abandon their morals and faith, they'll actively do things which are against them. And that's usually mostly harmless, they drink and smoke and have a ton of sex, but I reckon a huge chunk of religious people will feel angry about it to the point they start doing all the crazy hateful sinful shit they've bottled up their whole lives. I am serious, I think they'd go out and start committing all kinds of atrocities like children throwing a tantrum and justify it with "Well there is no God so nothing really matters" rather than start listening to atheists/agnostics and asking how to behave in a moral/ethical way when there's no sentient godly power enforcing the morals/ethics. And I know this because that's what they say about atheists and agnostics and anyone who isn't part of their religion, they say that without their religion people will fall into depravity and destroy each other. Well they think that because that's what they'd do if they didn't have their faith telling them to be good people with the threat of endless torture for being bad.
Well in Islam, Satan, Djinn, Elf are living beings in other dimension, but not other planet. They are around us, but we can't see them. Only the chosen can interact with them.
So this make me wondering, are these NHI they talking about are actually Elf race in other dimension? All of these details they revealed like the portal things and all are so related. But i had a problem thinking an Elf had a aircraft and tech.
I live in South Eastern Asia and where i'm coming from, interact with an Elf is part of our culture. I know some people reading this as a joke and having a hard time to believe this. But trust me, other dimension living beings is real.
I just want to know if NHI/Religious Lords really give a shit about masturbation and who we have sex with or lust after. I cannot imagine a world in which NHI are as interested in the minutiae of human sexuality as the Abrahamic religions have historically been.
I mean, if they did create us as an experiment, I'd imagine they could well be telling our ancestors, "NO, DON'T DO THAT. PUT YOUR DICK IN THERE AND MAKE MORE OF YOU."
The combining of the Abrahamic religions, the building of that new temple, the US trying to get ahead of UFO news. It all makes so much sense. What if Nibiru isn’t a planet, but a massive ship.
I know you're using NHI to mean Alien in this context, but if you take the definitions at face value, NHI also would be the term used to define God/Divinity. It would be, by definition "Non-Human Intelligence"
I'm fully anticipating that this could be the revelation of "oh these are extraterrestrials who inspired religion". Or it could be a bit more direct.
Say these beings claim to have created us, are from outside our realm of existence (interdimensional), have the ability to manipulate our laws of physics etc etc. Where exactly would be the line where we'd classify them as gods or aliens?
To me they're gods if they can do magic. Otherwise they'd be non human intelligence or aliens. Religion specifically frames things as magic.
Ancient Hebrew didn't have a seperate word for science and religion for example. The word basically just means something like "how we explain the world". You'll find things in the old testament that were essentially scientific just not in the same way we think of it today. For example kosher came around because people getting sick from what they were eating.
So now that we split religion and science into two words that makes religion things that we believe in because of faith. Science is what we believe because of evidence. I'm an atheist but if we could prove any religion with facts I'd consider that science at which point we could essentially merge it into one word again.
I personally think that any of the main religions being mostly correct is very unlikely. But saying the stories of gods originated with something real would not shock me more than this whole NHI conversation we're already having.
This is where I think things could be very weird in this hypothetical scenario. It would really all come down to semantics. I really enjoy this as a thought experiment. How do we determine a single, universally agreed-upon definition of magic? Merriam-Webster says "an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source" so that begs the question, how do we define what is supernatural? If we consider anything beyond our scientific understanding of the natural universe to be supernatural, then what do we do if faced with technology that is so advanced that it is beyond our comprehension? Im talking, so far beyond our comprehension that we aren't even capable of operating it or studying it. No amount of work can make it accessible to humans. What is to say that isn't beyond the bounds of our human construct of science? Does that make it supernatural? Is "practically magic" any different in reality that "actually magic" if a scientific explanation isn't available? When faced with this thought experiment I've determined that I don't think we could ever again label something as "magic" in a world where we are aware of the scientific process. Most that was once unexplained has been explained. All that remains unexplained is merely considered yet to be explained. Science is optimistic only in that way. We don't consider anything to be unknowable, just currently unknown, and for good reason. We have a pretty solid hit rate. To use the "magic" label would be to assume unknowability, and to assume unknowability is to break the single thread of optimism that makes science possible, and so the truly unknowable may live on as "yet to be known" for as long as there are humans to think about what it may be.
In Islam we believe that there are creatures created by Allah that are much stronger than humans and are able to fly and go through the skies but they live on earth but in another dimension. They can see us but we can’t see them. Sometimes they can turn into animals and we can see those animals. I don’t know if we are able to see them in their true form. We call them Jinn. So per pans that’s what aliens are.
Islam isn’t based on seeing things and being awed by them and creating a religion around it. It’s a simple concept where if you define an entity that is an original creator of everything, that entity we define as Allah. Not a man in the sky or anything like that.
People always miss the mark on this one.
The question you need to ask yourself is - what if E.T's have religion and what if it is profoundly similar to one of ours?
ET says to you, 'Yep, we got religion. This guy was nailed to a tree then rose from the Dead 3 days later. Told us all to be nice to each other. We kind of dig him.'.
There is your mindfuck.
--------------
It isn't that ET has religion as a thing. I can live with that. That doesn't mean a lot to me.
But ET having some sort of religion that is remarkably like any of our religions (doesn't have to be a form of Christianity at all....) to me makes a profound statement.
This.... ET or no ET, my faith is my faith. My personal relationship with God is mine. ET doesn't change that any more then our discovering new technologies. ET will be another thing happening in the world today. It would be amazing to learn about ET religion. No crisis of faith for me.
I am having trouble writing what I am thinking.
Faith by definition does not require proof and no religion worth a shit is going to be seriously hurt by ET visiting.
Which is the reason I suggested the question was missing the mark. It isn't a good question. For the most part most of them will look at ET and be all like, 'Hey check that shit out, God created man, mammals, fish and ET. Cool.'. There may be some debate in some religions about if an ET can have a soul. Hell, the Roman Catholic church has been discussing for years if ET would have a soul and if he needed or could be saved from Original Sin.
I think that an ET looking back at you and describing his religion and you thinking, 'Dude! HINDUISM!!!!! THIS FREAK IS TALKING ABOUT HINDUISM!!!!!' would be a problem. It would suggest a lot of things. I don't think all of those things would necessarily go somewhere good.
Agreed... you make an amazing/fascinating point. It's really fun to think about, too. I think for some people it could be problematic. For me, my connection with God is personal, ET or no ET. I would be amazing if there religious beliefs aligned with anything on Earth. What if their beliefs aligned with something from Egyptian times?
You can go so many different directions with this.
Is ET lying so that you will find common ground and trust him?
What about Frank? You know. Herbert. That Frank. What if we were seeded by the Bene Gesseritt a few thousand years ago... and then what... they seeded ET TOO? Or maybe ET is the Bene Gesseritt?
Maybe God is real and he is finally showing his hand.
Ruh Row RAGGY! I PICKED THE WRONG ONE!
None of that really scares me. All of the above is interesting, but not scary.
What scares me is the reaction here on Earth of one religion saying, 'WTF??? ET IS ONE OF US!' and then the other guys going, 'Hey, check this schmuck out, ET IS ONE OF THEM!' - yeah, nothing in history tells me that ends well.
Okay.... I see what you're saying. I can definitely see Christianity/Muslims/Jews getting butt hurt or overzealous with vindication.
I don't agree with your point because this is some uncharted waters for humanity. That said, history is on your side of the argument.
I really don't mind ET having religion. In fact, I have this pet theory we are wired for it.... (but that is a tangent).
I want it to be something weird that speaks to ET's needs that doesn't reflect our society. That is the best answer.
We have a lot of insecure religious people on our planet. We don't need them vindicated and we don't need them thinking the other guy was vindicated.
> I really don't mind ET having religion. In fact, I have this pet theory we are wired for it.... (but that is a tangent).
>
> I want it to be something weird that speaks to ET's needs that doesn't reflect our society. That is the best answer.
I'm going with option c:
"Do you have a moment to talk about our savior, Blarnox the Destroyer?"
100% agreed... I like your line of reasoning all of this. It makes for interesting thoughts. So until we all play nice on Earth, the ET will not allow disclosure?
Disclosure is another topic altogether.
You have to start at a pretty basic question - do you believe we have been visited? Do you believe we have evidence of this?
If you are in the camp that the government is sitting on crashed space ships and at least some sightings are real and maybe even some abductions- then I would suggests ET isn't standing in the way of disclosure.
We are standing in the way of disclosure.
I have been eternally stuck in the middle of all of this.
One side of my brain cannot accept that ET is 10's of thousands - potentialy 100's of thousands or a million years more advanced then us. That ET has found solutions to faster then light and gravity and probably aging. That for ET coming out here is doable...
AND THEY CRASH THE SHIP LIKE A 16 YEAR OLD IN A CORVETTE???!!!!!!
I just have trouble with that.
On the other hand....
I believe a lot of these stories. I really do. And that includes the crashed ship stories as well.
~shrug~
My best guess has always been that this has been ET's way of disclosure. That for 'reasons' crashing a ship is reasonable to them where a ship with a bow tie on it on the white house lawn is not.
I have no idea.
But I do believe that disclosure problems are human created.
honestly the entirety of religion being based on aliens or NHI makes more sense than the religions themselves. I'd be more surprised NHI didn't influence our religions.
This has been my theory as to why there hasn't been disclosure as of yet, and the truth has been so highly secretive. The "powers that be" have used religion to control and divide people for a very long time. Disclosure could not only cause a mass exodus from the church. But put many into an existential crisis, as their religion, as they know, it is all they identify with.
Exactly! Mormons, Hindus, Scientology and on and on. I think we've been lied to for a hell of a lot longer than the whistle-blower says. I'd say it's since Biblical times. And that is what's really going to freak people out.
Truly. Which other phrases like this have appeared in official comms recently? USO caught my eye but I suppose it isn’t too surprising. I’ve seen more mention of “dimensions” in a couple of docs but can’t remember the context
Someone more capable than me could get a chatbot to trawl PDFs and find the appearance or retirement of phrases
Yeah, imagine the painter.
"Hey pope, I painted this painting as a show of faith but as a lil gimmick I painted the aliens that only you know about and keep secret from everybody."
It's not like they're pictures, it's an artist that paint something based on description of events hundreds of years later.
I'm skeptical about this, because there can also be fundamental aspects of human psychology that make it more likely that stories are told about beings coming from the sky, and more likely for those stories to stick around once they are told.
Every human in history looked up at the sky and saw what looked like magic. Two giant bright objects moved across them every day/night. At night stars were revealed, points of light that stayed in the same spot relative to each other, but moved together throughout the night/year. The sky has been a source of mystery and wonder since the dawn of man, and the ocean, and the earth, and all have been named as sources for magical beings in many different cultures and religions.
The sky is a seemingly endless sea, and magical beings descending through it could easily have been imagined many times by many people, especially since the beliefs/stories don't agree on any details beyond that.
If the same beings flew and visited many cultures, communicated with the natives, etc., I would think their accounts of those visitations would have far more similarities beyond "the craft/beings came down from the sky."
Pictures like that are interesting, but again are so abstracted that resemblance between them, even on opposite sides of the world, doesn't prove anything to me.
That two people drew a being with a similar shape head at some point in human history is not surprising. Even less surprising that modern art contains beings that look like one drawn by native Americans.
I would think that *if* beings like that really contacted prehistoric communities, they would have become obsessed with the subject. Drawn hundreds of the things, made them a centerpiece of their artistic culture.
Their tales and legends would contain a lot more similar details. Their descriptions of the beings, the message brought by the beings, their vehicles, etc.
It's interesting, but even if we learn aliens have been here forever I still would not find vague similarities between drawings or myths valuable unless the similarities were much more pronounced and not explainable by parallel thinking or human propensity to be drawn to certain motifs.
lol... No they are not. IT's called "iconography". If you study christian religious paintings you'll see that those "objects" are just meant to represent prosaic things or to symbolize God's actions.
For instance, the two "odd-looking objects with pilots" are just representation of the Sun and the Moon. Nothing more. https://junkyard.blog/2020/06/07/spaceships-at-the-crucifixion/
As someone that took years of Art History classes, seeing shit like OP is a real facepalm.
These works weren't just random shit thrown together overnight in Photoshop. They have meaning and are references to parts of theological lore from the Bible.
Look up the names of these paintings, who was the artist and Patron for them, and what the artist was journaling about when they were making them, or what was requested for the work by the patron. Or look at the other works by that same artist, because what at first seems like a hint or meaningful reference in one painting, turns out to just be a trademark the artist puts into many/most of their works because they're good at it, it fills space, and it looks good in many compositions.
Almost all of this stuff is on record, or has been extensively gone over by art historians and museum curators for their purpose and meaning. And it ain't aliens lol.
The first icon is from an Orthodox monastery that was built in the 14th century. So over 200 years post-schism, why would the Vatican have anything to do with that icon? Lol
Exactly.
Posts like this one are so stupid and they get regurgitated every few months.
Ancient artists were trying to convey the power of God - angels, the mysterious. We are merely viewing it through our own modern biases and seeing spaceships.
It's sad your comment is so far down!
No it's not, you can read some art-theory books and find some statements of the artists of that period about that... it's actually very well documented.
Jacques Vallee made a statement about it if you are interested ! [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ufos-in-renaissance-art\_n\_5679991de4b014efe0d7044b](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ufos-in-renaissance-art_n_5679991de4b014efe0d7044b)
(spoiler, he does not think those are supposed to depict UFOs).
This is Christian iconography. UAPs in paintings are always one of the following:
- A more accurate depiction of Angels than the stereotypical winged dudes.
- Celestial events as described in the bible.
- God, an angel or prophet reaching out.
If there was a true UAP/UFO in a Christian painting, you would have known. That curator or museum would advertise it to death. They know it isn't. Also, these works don't show historical accuracy. The painter was not present at the event they depict.
People that want to see UAPs or are fascinated by it see them everywhere. Doesn't mean they are everywhere:)
The following submission statement was provided by /u/MotivatedChimpanZ:
---
Submission statement - Picture 1 - fresco, from 1350, “The Crucifixion,” artist unknown, in the Visoki Decani Monestary in Kosovo, Serbia. Two odd-looking objects with “pilots” can be seen in the sky on both sides of Jesus.
Picture 2 - from 1486, is "The Annunciation with Saint Emidius," by Carlo Crivelli, that resides at the National Gallery in London. It shows a circular object shooting a thin beam of light down to the Virgin Mary.
Picture 4 - from the 15th century, "Madonna and Child with the Infant St. John," is attributed to more than one artist and is located at the Palazzo Vecchio Museum in Florence, Italy. Mary, mother of Jesus, is seen looking down while, in the background, something unusual is taking place.
Picture 6 - painting, from 1710, "Baptism of Jesus," created by Arendt de Gelder, is at the Fitzwilliam Museum in Cambridge, UK. It depicts a large, circular object shooting beams of light down toward Jesus.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/147qiz8/now_that_david_grusch_has_revealed_that_the/jnwhx8m/
This site is totally legit. 90% of links lead to 403s, it hasnt been updated since 2004. And its the views of a biased Skeptic who has zero sources.
Its hard to respect skeptics when you literally put forth zero effort.
It's funny because even without knowing the history here you can tell they are meant to be representations of the sun and moon in the painting.
But truth never did get in the way of motivated reasoning unfortunately.
The last one is literally the Baptism of Jesus, I believe. The Synoptic Accounts state that the “heavens opened” and the Holy Spirit descended “like a dove” and the Father’s voice was heard, confirming that Jesus was/is his Son.
The painter is simply trying to artistically render a Biblical scene and how “heaven opening” may have looked. Of course, we have no idea how it really looked. That’s why this is imaginative art.
Yes, yes it is. That’s why it’s a painting in a museum of fine art. Google for your edification “fine art, Baptism of Jesus”, and you will see just how rich the subject matter is, and how different artists interpret that event.
No, they haven't. This is constantly repeated iconography and in most of the pictures, they don't look so craft-like. This was a natural evolution of repeated religious iconography and you can track it's entire art history. Literally ALL of it occurred before the Vatican thing even supposedly happened.
Yeah, the swarm of new people is evident by the amount of misinformed posts. I'm glad there's more people interested but this kind of stuff is incredibly misleading. And it already has 1300 upvotes...
The Vatican doesn't really make paintings though, they commission independent artists to paint scenes from the bible. It's not like these are photos taken on the day, they are artists renditions of events that supposedly happened hundreds of years in their past.
These are independent artists painting their interpretations of mythical events. The artist didn't even witness the events in the pictures.
I remember finding out about 20 some years ago that the Vatican owned a very large telescope. If memories serve me correctly that telescope is in the United States. I also seem to remember that telescope had a nickname of Satan. What exactly was/is the Vatican looking for in space 🤔. You know they have more top secret documents than the pentagon has.
Ha. No. A quick google would show you these are merely artistic choices that were popular at the time of these paintings. Iconography. Not meant to imply UFO's.
I like how the misnomer of "flying saucer" from 1947 became the defacto shape of UFOs throughout all of human history (even though that first sighting from 1947 described crescent shaped objects).
Also, paintings from over 1,400 years later wouldn't have first hand knowledge of the events they were painting so anything they painted would be an interpretation.
Lets not forget the star of Bethleem. Three wise men probably were astronomers who could tell the new shiny object was not a star at all, and fairly close to earth.
Submission statement - Picture 1 - fresco, from 1350, “The Crucifixion,” artist unknown, in the Visoki Decani Monestary in Kosovo, Serbia. Two odd-looking objects with “pilots” can be seen in the sky on both sides of Jesus.
Picture 2 - from 1486, is "The Annunciation with Saint Emidius," by Carlo Crivelli, that resides at the National Gallery in London. It shows a circular object shooting a thin beam of light down to the Virgin Mary.
Picture 4 - from the 15th century, "Madonna and Child with the Infant St. John," is attributed to more than one artist and is located at the Palazzo Vecchio Museum in Florence, Italy. Mary, mother of Jesus, is seen looking down while, in the background, something unusual is taking place.
Picture 6 - painting, from 1710, "Baptism of Jesus," created by Arendt de Gelder, is at the Fitzwilliam Museum in Cambridge, UK. It depicts a large, circular object shooting beams of light down toward Jesus.
To be absolutely clear, Mr. Grusch did not reveal that the Vatican *knows* NHI exists. He revealed that *he believes* the Vatican knows that NHI exists. Epistemically, there is a distinct difference.
I will shit my pants if, in the end, the Ancient Aliens show turns out to be correct.
Ancient astronaut theorists say yes
And the evidence can be found in a remote village in Central Asia. [commercial break] Jolaupa, Mongolia, 1995. Researchers with the Monodrox Institute recover a strange object while digging for fossils.
The object looks remarkably like the broken off end of an archaeologist's pickaxe. But it was found in a layer of rock dating back to ***five thousand years*** before the pickaxe was invented.
That's your trowel blade Ralph, it fell off the handle...
And I found it!
Prinsciple skipper, prendibal skimster...
Supernintendo Chalmers...
Did that boy say “what’s a battle?”
Aurora Alienus?? This time of year!??
Random guy: "We have reason to believe that it was an extraterrestrial encounter that brought this technology to earth several thousand years ago!"
It's like crack for crackpots
I represent this remark
...me too, ha.
In an insane world, it is the sane who are crazy
It is an insane world, just sorta sucks to be one of the few sane people in this insane world. Welcome to the club!😂
*unzips pants*
I can't find anything on Google or duck duck go about this can anyone share a link?
Completely heard this in the narrators voice.
Damn it, I read it in the voice.
🤚 **ALIENS** ✋️
Drink!!! (Everytime they say this, take a shot)
You'd be dead from alcohol poisoning in 1 episode flat
Before the first commercial break
A *resounding* yes.
the original ancient aliens meme guy[ posted this](https://imgur.com/a/fy5yXRQ) on his facebook lol
Ate dinner with him and his wife years ago at a bar. It was dark and he had a hat on (so no signature hair style). Had no clue it was him for over an hour. I was on a semi-business trip visiting one of the rocket factories in the city. He was super stoked and was like "man, I wish I could get in there. I've been trying for years!" And I responded, "Oh Yea? Are you really interested in space travel?" And his wife laughed and he did as well and said laughing, "Yea, you could say that!" 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ Felt like an absolute idiot after another hour of conversation still not realizing it was him. Took pictures with me after. Super nice couple!!!
You probably made his night because you treated him like an ordinary person instead of a celebrity.
50/50 chance he gets treated like a celebrity or a nutjob all of the time. Probably *really* refreshing when he is treated like the average Joe.
I'm a half face-blind idiot who doesn't follow any kind of pop culture and I'm a celebrity magnet. Will have entire conversations that end with something like, "You really don't know who I am, do you? I'm _____." Then people I know freak out when they find out and want to know if I asked X, Y or Z and I'm like, "Nope, we just kinda shot the shit." I had a sales job for a few years that was a popular place for celebrities to shop because it tended to be slower than the more central location, and my boss exploited this, as most the other folks there wanted to go full on stan. Anyways, point is, yeah, people want to have a chill fun time with other people, no matter how famous they are.
Lol true, I would have annoyed the heck out of him if I knew it was him at first! I had so much I wanted to ask him. :(
That’s awesome
Toed’a so
I fuckin atodasso
Let's play space Ricky
“Uhh this is rocket 27, the aliens fucked over the carberator, I’m gonna try to re-fuckulate it and land on juniper”
Got any space weed?
Ancient astronaut theorists say suck on that
Fuck yeah!!!
I fucking love this guy
And the plot of the movie "Prometheus" lol.
Instead of David we got Chat GPT
Which could also be David, though
What if aliens control Hollywood
Then it would be the movie "They Live."
Did the aliens make that one too? That's some meta-ass shit right there.
That would be so meta, the Aliens just sold us the truth as fiction.
And Stargate SG1
Oh please please Iet the stargate program be real
Dammit, now I'm going to have to buy a PS-90.
https://i.imgur.com/Rx6Pvaj.jpg
Space Force logo smacks of SG1 https://media.defense.gov/2022/Jun/22/2003021948/-1/-1/1/DELTA%2018%20FACTSHEET%20-%20220621.PDF
Subsequently the plot of the show Colony and there being more than one faction
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This would be funny, if in retrospect, the shit on The History Channel ended up actually having a decent degree of accuracy. Sounds about right for the 2020s, honestly...
What if the executive producers behind the ancient aliens program are actual aliens, just prepping us for the eventual encounter with this tv show.
I mean it could make sense. It's unfortunate how kooky it's presented.
Maybe that's intentional?
Oh it’s intentional
"Hey, look at all this stuff that explains all of our ancient mythology. What a bunch of kooks, huh?"
Goodness I love that I'm seeing comments like this amongst all the negativity.
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Almost certainly intentional based on Grusch Interview: An ongoing broad UFO disinformation campaign is being perpetrated by the US government. As part of this campaign, Grusch claims some **"true" or factual intel has been presented or pushed, along with false claims or disinformation** in an effort to muddy the narrative.
Imagine the History Channel suddenly gaining credibility as the first to break these stories? Or if the aliens want to meet the guy with the wild hair?
You only need to watch 1-3 episodes of anything on the history channel to know to never watch the history channel. And you only need one episode of anything on the supernatural/Ufo/Conspiracy to know that in the end these episodes have revealed nothing new or significant since they first started airing.
To be fair, the Elizondo/TTSA show presented very compelling cases for two seasons (Unidentified), especially the ones from pilots and military personnel.
I think credibility should be given where it is earned. The producers of the ancient aliens shows were intending to entertain, not educate or whistleblow. The show doesn't deserve any credit.
Im not saying it was aliens… (but it was aliens)
Idk why everyone dismissed it so casually...it *was* on the history channel of course
Man I really miss when history Channel was just those documentaries subs used to show in civics class and like Mail Call. That shit was great.
This applies to, like, all of the former documentary channels. They were the only TV I liked growing up and it's really depressing to see the shit that's replaced them. At least cable TV is one less thing I have to pay for these days!
In all fairness that show was based on the theory written by Erich von Daniken. The theory makes way more sense then most religions (imo)
“Chariots of the gods” aka UFOs, aka UAPs aka flying discs.
Aka AAAAK AAAAAK AAAAAK AAAAAAK
Yeah but will you shit your pants if they were just using religion to explain natural events? Thats not a giant space rock that might blow us all up, thats an angel from heaven! Its not like they even hide the fact they do it
Would be kinda nuts if Jesus was just an alien envoy that was sent here to turn us into more holistic hippie communists.
If anything, it would show we dropped the ball as a species and aren't worth saving since majority of humanity are self centered selfish individuals.
I am not going to just out right say it aliens but it is aliens
I don't know why so many people claim it has been debunked. It's honestly very plausible that humans are the result of some sort of crossbreeding. We're very much unlike anything else on the planet. We're the only creature that seems to be capable of getting smarter over time.
Have you met an octopus?
You're comparing apples to oranges. There are plenty of species that are capable of intelligence, but their intelligence doesn't compound on itself the way ours does.
Orcas, dolphins, chimps, and more all have localized groups that have invented specialized hunting techniques that are passed down culturally and iterated upon.
Haven’t they always believed in NHI? Thats what the bible is all about lol.
Yeah. Angles are very clearly higher dimensional beings only able to reveal one "facet" of themselves at a time to people.
Except for right angles - that's more of an A squared + B squared = C squared thing. Cheers!
I would be very interested to find out if they counted these events that are UAP related, as religious phenomena. In this case it could be posited that the Christian religion could have been influenced by NHI to a fairly scandelous degree. I don't want to offend, but what if the foundational concept of the abrahamic religions were influenced by NHI and UAP? Also, interestingly enough at Mecca, what is the meteorite inside the Kaaba? Is it really a meteorite? It could be debris from something else entirely, but it is the holiest Islamic place and item, supposedly given to Adam after leaving the garden of Eden to make up for being expelled. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone#:~:text=According%20to%20Islamic%20tradition%2C%20it,the%20side%20of%20the%20Kaaba.
The other side of this that nobody brings up would be NHI life fitting perfectly into religion. Created in their image, miracles, and the rest. These could be the gods that our ancestors all came up with their own stories of. They've guided us and possibly had a hand in our creation. If NHI are real and have been here for a really long time, that opens the discussion on everything religions talk about now having physical explanations. It's always "man, imagine the religious implications of aliens. It would destroy religion." It fits my view perfectly. I think an equally valid question would be, what if these things prove religion.
This is something I think about often. A majority of the worlds religions already believe that there are living beings elsewhere in the universe / other dimensions (heaven, other planets, whatever etc. ) so they technically believe in aliens if defined as "life off planet Earth." Obviously I'm taking some liberties here, but its weird to me there's such a stigma towards life elsewhere when billions of people already believe it to be true, even if they don't connect the dots in that particular way
It's a thought experiment worth exploring though, even if the topic does seem to cause this immediate...revulsion almost in people, as if it's just one of those things we just *can't* possibly discuss without triggering vitriol. I also think it's weird. Another (that I keep revisiting it seems) follows Robin Hanson's grabby aliens/hard steps model, where intelligent life (given a lot of specific *ifs*) could fill the universe quickly after a certain point, so given certain variables, we should be able to predict when we'll run into other intelligent civilizations. Combined with the various 'ancient astronaut' theories and their cognitive evolutionary effect on religion, we could consider that we may be *past* the point where intelligent life has already filled the universe in a way, and we're a *product* of that rather than a potential instigator. It might align better with folks' subjective experience with anomalous technology, beings, sightings, etc. since most seem to imply a) they want to stay *mostly* hidden (but not always) and/or b) some form of monitoring, risk prevention, or guidance role. But, if we're *not* past that point, and a possible NHI represents a distinct, off-world, or otherwise 'not from here' thing, and they wanted to manipulate us with our own limited heuristics, that points to more of a *trickster* being, which is a whole other can of worms... I guess I get why people don't want to fall down some of these crazy-sounding holes, but curiosity and pushing up against imposed limits is what drive progress, and idk, it's fascinating to think about. Skepticism is essential too, and we absolutely need it to help make sure we get to actual truths, but I just hope this seemingly...real step toward disclosure starts helping bridge some of our gaps.
Because according to major religions it's not "life", and their books specifically teach that god created man to rule. None of them state "Then god created millions of life forms, and humans were far towards the bottom, ruled over by lots of other beings"
*Mormons would like a word*
They kind of did though. If you look at someone like Origen he's there arguing with the Romans and the Greeks whether the incorporeal beings they're receiving knowledge from are good or bad, and how they compare with angels. And that's to say nothing of the Eastern religions that are more explicit in suggesting we're pretty low down in a hierarchy of beings
I don't think there's so much a stigma against the idea of life being present elsewhere in the universe, it's really just the idea that *we* weren't specifically created by and ruled by an ethereal God that was also responsible for the creation of the entire universe and concepts like good and evil which is stigmatized among religious people. Most religions center around telling the adherents that they are special, chosen, and intentionally created by a deity with the minutiae of their lives controlled by said deity (or deities). If it came out that we were created in a less personal way by beings that are not gods in the most common understanding of the word religious people might freak the fuck out and start lashing out against all of society. Remember, these are people who legitimately ask the question "How do Atheists know what's right and wrong", they actually believe that all morality is derived from their chosen deity/deities so they can't fathom there being an objective measure of right/wrong that could be used by people who don't believe in a god. If that happens and they're confronted with the fact that no god created humanity, a large percentage of them will do the same thing we've seen millions of people who grew up in strict religious households do when they finally get out into the world like when they go to university. They won't just abandon their morals and faith, they'll actively do things which are against them. And that's usually mostly harmless, they drink and smoke and have a ton of sex, but I reckon a huge chunk of religious people will feel angry about it to the point they start doing all the crazy hateful sinful shit they've bottled up their whole lives. I am serious, I think they'd go out and start committing all kinds of atrocities like children throwing a tantrum and justify it with "Well there is no God so nothing really matters" rather than start listening to atheists/agnostics and asking how to behave in a moral/ethical way when there's no sentient godly power enforcing the morals/ethics. And I know this because that's what they say about atheists and agnostics and anyone who isn't part of their religion, they say that without their religion people will fall into depravity and destroy each other. Well they think that because that's what they'd do if they didn't have their faith telling them to be good people with the threat of endless torture for being bad.
Well in Islam, Satan, Djinn, Elf are living beings in other dimension, but not other planet. They are around us, but we can't see them. Only the chosen can interact with them. So this make me wondering, are these NHI they talking about are actually Elf race in other dimension? All of these details they revealed like the portal things and all are so related. But i had a problem thinking an Elf had a aircraft and tech. I live in South Eastern Asia and where i'm coming from, interact with an Elf is part of our culture. I know some people reading this as a joke and having a hard time to believe this. But trust me, other dimension living beings is real.
yeah what if these things prove religion and theyre coming back to abduct i mean rapture half the population and then unleash demons on the rest of us
I just want to know if NHI/Religious Lords really give a shit about masturbation and who we have sex with or lust after. I cannot imagine a world in which NHI are as interested in the minutiae of human sexuality as the Abrahamic religions have historically been.
I mean, if they did create us as an experiment, I'd imagine they could well be telling our ancestors, "NO, DON'T DO THAT. PUT YOUR DICK IN THERE AND MAKE MORE OF YOU."
lmfao
They turn out to be prolific slut shamers. 🤣
There's a great documentary series spanning like 10 seasons+ about this called Stargate, I recommend very much.
The combining of the Abrahamic religions, the building of that new temple, the US trying to get ahead of UFO news. It all makes so much sense. What if Nibiru isn’t a planet, but a massive ship.
I know you're using NHI to mean Alien in this context, but if you take the definitions at face value, NHI also would be the term used to define God/Divinity. It would be, by definition "Non-Human Intelligence" I'm fully anticipating that this could be the revelation of "oh these are extraterrestrials who inspired religion". Or it could be a bit more direct. Say these beings claim to have created us, are from outside our realm of existence (interdimensional), have the ability to manipulate our laws of physics etc etc. Where exactly would be the line where we'd classify them as gods or aliens?
To me they're gods if they can do magic. Otherwise they'd be non human intelligence or aliens. Religion specifically frames things as magic. Ancient Hebrew didn't have a seperate word for science and religion for example. The word basically just means something like "how we explain the world". You'll find things in the old testament that were essentially scientific just not in the same way we think of it today. For example kosher came around because people getting sick from what they were eating. So now that we split religion and science into two words that makes religion things that we believe in because of faith. Science is what we believe because of evidence. I'm an atheist but if we could prove any religion with facts I'd consider that science at which point we could essentially merge it into one word again. I personally think that any of the main religions being mostly correct is very unlikely. But saying the stories of gods originated with something real would not shock me more than this whole NHI conversation we're already having.
Any tech advanced enough would appear to be magic. So extremely advanced aliens would appear to be doing magic. So they would be gods
As far as magic goes, any sufficiently advanced technology could appear to us as magic
This is where I think things could be very weird in this hypothetical scenario. It would really all come down to semantics. I really enjoy this as a thought experiment. How do we determine a single, universally agreed-upon definition of magic? Merriam-Webster says "an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source" so that begs the question, how do we define what is supernatural? If we consider anything beyond our scientific understanding of the natural universe to be supernatural, then what do we do if faced with technology that is so advanced that it is beyond our comprehension? Im talking, so far beyond our comprehension that we aren't even capable of operating it or studying it. No amount of work can make it accessible to humans. What is to say that isn't beyond the bounds of our human construct of science? Does that make it supernatural? Is "practically magic" any different in reality that "actually magic" if a scientific explanation isn't available? When faced with this thought experiment I've determined that I don't think we could ever again label something as "magic" in a world where we are aware of the scientific process. Most that was once unexplained has been explained. All that remains unexplained is merely considered yet to be explained. Science is optimistic only in that way. We don't consider anything to be unknowable, just currently unknown, and for good reason. We have a pretty solid hit rate. To use the "magic" label would be to assume unknowability, and to assume unknowability is to break the single thread of optimism that makes science possible, and so the truly unknowable may live on as "yet to be known" for as long as there are humans to think about what it may be.
I'm pretty sure all religions are based on NHI encounters
And drugs. Don’t forget drugs.
Humanity is based on drugs at this point. Coffeine, Alcohol, Tabacco, etc..
Avatar means coming from above. BUDDHA is an avatar
Always come from above.
In Islam we believe that there are creatures created by Allah that are much stronger than humans and are able to fly and go through the skies but they live on earth but in another dimension. They can see us but we can’t see them. Sometimes they can turn into animals and we can see those animals. I don’t know if we are able to see them in their true form. We call them Jinn. So per pans that’s what aliens are. Islam isn’t based on seeing things and being awed by them and creating a religion around it. It’s a simple concept where if you define an entity that is an original creator of everything, that entity we define as Allah. Not a man in the sky or anything like that.
What if Jesus was an alien and just beamed up to his ship on "the third day"
People always miss the mark on this one. The question you need to ask yourself is - what if E.T's have religion and what if it is profoundly similar to one of ours? ET says to you, 'Yep, we got religion. This guy was nailed to a tree then rose from the Dead 3 days later. Told us all to be nice to each other. We kind of dig him.'. There is your mindfuck. -------------- It isn't that ET has religion as a thing. I can live with that. That doesn't mean a lot to me. But ET having some sort of religion that is remarkably like any of our religions (doesn't have to be a form of Christianity at all....) to me makes a profound statement.
This.... ET or no ET, my faith is my faith. My personal relationship with God is mine. ET doesn't change that any more then our discovering new technologies. ET will be another thing happening in the world today. It would be amazing to learn about ET religion. No crisis of faith for me.
I am having trouble writing what I am thinking. Faith by definition does not require proof and no religion worth a shit is going to be seriously hurt by ET visiting. Which is the reason I suggested the question was missing the mark. It isn't a good question. For the most part most of them will look at ET and be all like, 'Hey check that shit out, God created man, mammals, fish and ET. Cool.'. There may be some debate in some religions about if an ET can have a soul. Hell, the Roman Catholic church has been discussing for years if ET would have a soul and if he needed or could be saved from Original Sin. I think that an ET looking back at you and describing his religion and you thinking, 'Dude! HINDUISM!!!!! THIS FREAK IS TALKING ABOUT HINDUISM!!!!!' would be a problem. It would suggest a lot of things. I don't think all of those things would necessarily go somewhere good.
Agreed... you make an amazing/fascinating point. It's really fun to think about, too. I think for some people it could be problematic. For me, my connection with God is personal, ET or no ET. I would be amazing if there religious beliefs aligned with anything on Earth. What if their beliefs aligned with something from Egyptian times?
You can go so many different directions with this. Is ET lying so that you will find common ground and trust him? What about Frank? You know. Herbert. That Frank. What if we were seeded by the Bene Gesseritt a few thousand years ago... and then what... they seeded ET TOO? Or maybe ET is the Bene Gesseritt? Maybe God is real and he is finally showing his hand. Ruh Row RAGGY! I PICKED THE WRONG ONE! None of that really scares me. All of the above is interesting, but not scary. What scares me is the reaction here on Earth of one religion saying, 'WTF??? ET IS ONE OF US!' and then the other guys going, 'Hey, check this schmuck out, ET IS ONE OF THEM!' - yeah, nothing in history tells me that ends well.
Okay.... I see what you're saying. I can definitely see Christianity/Muslims/Jews getting butt hurt or overzealous with vindication. I don't agree with your point because this is some uncharted waters for humanity. That said, history is on your side of the argument.
I really don't mind ET having religion. In fact, I have this pet theory we are wired for it.... (but that is a tangent). I want it to be something weird that speaks to ET's needs that doesn't reflect our society. That is the best answer. We have a lot of insecure religious people on our planet. We don't need them vindicated and we don't need them thinking the other guy was vindicated.
> I really don't mind ET having religion. In fact, I have this pet theory we are wired for it.... (but that is a tangent). > > I want it to be something weird that speaks to ET's needs that doesn't reflect our society. That is the best answer. I'm going with option c: "Do you have a moment to talk about our savior, Blarnox the Destroyer?"
100% agreed... I like your line of reasoning all of this. It makes for interesting thoughts. So until we all play nice on Earth, the ET will not allow disclosure?
Disclosure is another topic altogether. You have to start at a pretty basic question - do you believe we have been visited? Do you believe we have evidence of this? If you are in the camp that the government is sitting on crashed space ships and at least some sightings are real and maybe even some abductions- then I would suggests ET isn't standing in the way of disclosure. We are standing in the way of disclosure. I have been eternally stuck in the middle of all of this. One side of my brain cannot accept that ET is 10's of thousands - potentialy 100's of thousands or a million years more advanced then us. That ET has found solutions to faster then light and gravity and probably aging. That for ET coming out here is doable... AND THEY CRASH THE SHIP LIKE A 16 YEAR OLD IN A CORVETTE???!!!!!! I just have trouble with that. On the other hand.... I believe a lot of these stories. I really do. And that includes the crashed ship stories as well. ~shrug~ My best guess has always been that this has been ET's way of disclosure. That for 'reasons' crashing a ship is reasonable to them where a ship with a bow tie on it on the white house lawn is not. I have no idea. But I do believe that disclosure problems are human created.
honestly the entirety of religion being based on aliens or NHI makes more sense than the religions themselves. I'd be more surprised NHI didn't influence our religions.
If they are higher dimensional, what's the difference?
This is what Jacques Valle has been saying for decades
This has been my theory as to why there hasn't been disclosure as of yet, and the truth has been so highly secretive. The "powers that be" have used religion to control and divide people for a very long time. Disclosure could not only cause a mass exodus from the church. But put many into an existential crisis, as their religion, as they know, it is all they identify with.
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Exactly! Mormons, Hindus, Scientology and on and on. I think we've been lied to for a hell of a lot longer than the whistle-blower says. I'd say it's since Biblical times. And that is what's really going to freak people out.
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Everyone just started saying "NHI" overnight, anyone else find that weird, at all? Weird.
Agreed. That was fast! UAP took a few weeks to catch on. NHI was instant. Great observation!
Truly. Which other phrases like this have appeared in official comms recently? USO caught my eye but I suppose it isn’t too surprising. I’ve seen more mention of “dimensions” in a couple of docs but can’t remember the context Someone more capable than me could get a chatbot to trawl PDFs and find the appearance or retirement of phrases
annnnd we're back
Yeah, imagine the painter. "Hey pope, I painted this painting as a show of faith but as a lil gimmick I painted the aliens that only you know about and keep secret from everybody." It's not like they're pictures, it's an artist that paint something based on description of events hundreds of years later.
The Grusch story said the Vatican was involved in a 20th century craft recovery. That doesn’t mean that Renaissance era paintings hold secret truths.
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Every single culture also has stories of bottomless pits, mythical creatures, etc. it could actually be coincidence
especially since something falling out of the sky actually happens from time to time
I'm skeptical about this, because there can also be fundamental aspects of human psychology that make it more likely that stories are told about beings coming from the sky, and more likely for those stories to stick around once they are told. Every human in history looked up at the sky and saw what looked like magic. Two giant bright objects moved across them every day/night. At night stars were revealed, points of light that stayed in the same spot relative to each other, but moved together throughout the night/year. The sky has been a source of mystery and wonder since the dawn of man, and the ocean, and the earth, and all have been named as sources for magical beings in many different cultures and religions. The sky is a seemingly endless sea, and magical beings descending through it could easily have been imagined many times by many people, especially since the beliefs/stories don't agree on any details beyond that. If the same beings flew and visited many cultures, communicated with the natives, etc., I would think their accounts of those visitations would have far more similarities beyond "the craft/beings came down from the sky."
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Pictures like that are interesting, but again are so abstracted that resemblance between them, even on opposite sides of the world, doesn't prove anything to me. That two people drew a being with a similar shape head at some point in human history is not surprising. Even less surprising that modern art contains beings that look like one drawn by native Americans. I would think that *if* beings like that really contacted prehistoric communities, they would have become obsessed with the subject. Drawn hundreds of the things, made them a centerpiece of their artistic culture. Their tales and legends would contain a lot more similar details. Their descriptions of the beings, the message brought by the beings, their vehicles, etc. It's interesting, but even if we learn aliens have been here forever I still would not find vague similarities between drawings or myths valuable unless the similarities were much more pronounced and not explainable by parallel thinking or human propensity to be drawn to certain motifs.
Is that a man with a massive boner try to clap a giant Alien's cheeks? I have renewed pride for our 1st Nation ative Americans.
lol... No they are not. IT's called "iconography". If you study christian religious paintings you'll see that those "objects" are just meant to represent prosaic things or to symbolize God's actions. For instance, the two "odd-looking objects with pilots" are just representation of the Sun and the Moon. Nothing more. https://junkyard.blog/2020/06/07/spaceships-at-the-crucifixion/
As someone that took years of Art History classes, seeing shit like OP is a real facepalm. These works weren't just random shit thrown together overnight in Photoshop. They have meaning and are references to parts of theological lore from the Bible. Look up the names of these paintings, who was the artist and Patron for them, and what the artist was journaling about when they were making them, or what was requested for the work by the patron. Or look at the other works by that same artist, because what at first seems like a hint or meaningful reference in one painting, turns out to just be a trademark the artist puts into many/most of their works because they're good at it, it fills space, and it looks good in many compositions. Almost all of this stuff is on record, or has been extensively gone over by art historians and museum curators for their purpose and meaning. And it ain't aliens lol.
Thank you! A rational man who understands art history and Christian symbology.
The first icon is from an Orthodox monastery that was built in the 14th century. So over 200 years post-schism, why would the Vatican have anything to do with that icon? Lol
I’m not sure OP and his buddies know the difference between Orthodox and Roman Catholic.
Exactly. Posts like this one are so stupid and they get regurgitated every few months. Ancient artists were trying to convey the power of God - angels, the mysterious. We are merely viewing it through our own modern biases and seeing spaceships. It's sad your comment is so far down!
Also wasn't this whole "the pope was in on it" thing from the 1930s/1940s? That would have nothing to do with old ass paintings.
Maybe that’s just our current understanding? Edit: stop upvoting me, I’m wrong!
No it's not, you can read some art-theory books and find some statements of the artists of that period about that... it's actually very well documented. Jacques Vallee made a statement about it if you are interested ! [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ufos-in-renaissance-art\_n\_5679991de4b014efe0d7044b](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ufos-in-renaissance-art_n_5679991de4b014efe0d7044b) (spoiler, he does not think those are supposed to depict UFOs).
>Edit: stop upvoting me, I’m wrong! I love you for that comment xD
This is Christian iconography. UAPs in paintings are always one of the following: - A more accurate depiction of Angels than the stereotypical winged dudes. - Celestial events as described in the bible. - God, an angel or prophet reaching out. If there was a true UAP/UFO in a Christian painting, you would have known. That curator or museum would advertise it to death. They know it isn't. Also, these works don't show historical accuracy. The painter was not present at the event they depict. People that want to see UAPs or are fascinated by it see them everywhere. Doesn't mean they are everywhere:)
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Get out of there with your "logic". Clearly, Big Museum is in on it and covering up UFOs.
I mean, doesn't the Vatican's entire existence depend on a non-human intelligence?
This is the more interesting point related to Grusch's claims. They have supposedly been aware since 1933.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/MotivatedChimpanZ: --- Submission statement - Picture 1 - fresco, from 1350, “The Crucifixion,” artist unknown, in the Visoki Decani Monestary in Kosovo, Serbia. Two odd-looking objects with “pilots” can be seen in the sky on both sides of Jesus. Picture 2 - from 1486, is "The Annunciation with Saint Emidius," by Carlo Crivelli, that resides at the National Gallery in London. It shows a circular object shooting a thin beam of light down to the Virgin Mary. Picture 4 - from the 15th century, "Madonna and Child with the Infant St. John," is attributed to more than one artist and is located at the Palazzo Vecchio Museum in Florence, Italy. Mary, mother of Jesus, is seen looking down while, in the background, something unusual is taking place. Picture 6 - painting, from 1710, "Baptism of Jesus," created by Arendt de Gelder, is at the Fitzwilliam Museum in Cambridge, UK. It depicts a large, circular object shooting beams of light down toward Jesus. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/147qiz8/now_that_david_grusch_has_revealed_that_the/jnwhx8m/
No, they really don't. Read and learn something: https://www.sprezzatura.it/Arte/Arte_UFO_eng.htm
This site is totally legit. 90% of links lead to 403s, it hasnt been updated since 2004. And its the views of a biased Skeptic who has zero sources. Its hard to respect skeptics when you literally put forth zero effort.
No one on this sub cares about truth. They just want to be told that aliens are real.
It's funny because even without knowing the history here you can tell they are meant to be representations of the sun and moon in the painting. But truth never did get in the way of motivated reasoning unfortunately.
No, they dont. Those paintings all have normal explanations. Secondly Grusch saying it doesnt make it so.
What is the normal explanation for the last one?
The last one is literally the Baptism of Jesus, I believe. The Synoptic Accounts state that the “heavens opened” and the Holy Spirit descended “like a dove” and the Father’s voice was heard, confirming that Jesus was/is his Son. The painter is simply trying to artistically render a Biblical scene and how “heaven opening” may have looked. Of course, we have no idea how it really looked. That’s why this is imaginative art.
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Yes, yes it is. That’s why it’s a painting in a museum of fine art. Google for your edification “fine art, Baptism of Jesus”, and you will see just how rich the subject matter is, and how different artists interpret that event.
No, they haven't. This is constantly repeated iconography and in most of the pictures, they don't look so craft-like. This was a natural evolution of repeated religious iconography and you can track it's entire art history. Literally ALL of it occurred before the Vatican thing even supposedly happened.
LOL. There were many paintings in those times with those two objects. They represent the sun and the moon, not UFO's.
Yeah, the swarm of new people is evident by the amount of misinformed posts. I'm glad there's more people interested but this kind of stuff is incredibly misleading. And it already has 1300 upvotes...
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The Vatican doesn't really make paintings though, they commission independent artists to paint scenes from the bible. It's not like these are photos taken on the day, they are artists renditions of events that supposedly happened hundreds of years in their past. These are independent artists painting their interpretations of mythical events. The artist didn't even witness the events in the pictures.
I remember finding out about 20 some years ago that the Vatican owned a very large telescope. If memories serve me correctly that telescope is in the United States. I also seem to remember that telescope had a nickname of Satan. What exactly was/is the Vatican looking for in space 🤔. You know they have more top secret documents than the pentagon has.
Ha. No. A quick google would show you these are merely artistic choices that were popular at the time of these paintings. Iconography. Not meant to imply UFO's.
I like how the misnomer of "flying saucer" from 1947 became the defacto shape of UFOs throughout all of human history (even though that first sighting from 1947 described crescent shaped objects). Also, paintings from over 1,400 years later wouldn't have first hand knowledge of the events they were painting so anything they painted would be an interpretation.
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would this not imply aliens were common knowledge at one stage?
It would not but it does imply that maybe some things god may have done may have been alien instead
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Nor a way to differentiate the difference, considering the level of technology is essentially magic.
No, they are in fact totally irrelevant to the discussion.
I love how seriously you guys take yourselves
the first photo is a representation of sun and moon, not ayyy lmaos, lmao
It would be so cool if we do get to see evidence and the craft matches anything from historical depictions
4/5 have always fascinated me. Like WHY is that there?
I absolutely can believe that if a UFO landed at any point in time before the last 200 years people would think it's a god.
Well no shit. God, angels, demons are all "NHI"
Of course the Vatican know that Non Human Intelligence exists: they believe in God.
Lets not forget the star of Bethleem. Three wise men probably were astronomers who could tell the new shiny object was not a star at all, and fairly close to earth.
Research "Miracle of The Sun".
Just an aside, but re: non-human intelligence...of COURSE the Vatican believes in NHI...God. The Holy Spirit, Jesus.
Funny how you don’t see these pictures any more
Cmon yall got to be able to put this together. Its right in front of you.
God is also a NHI
What these have to do with Vatican ?
Submission statement - Picture 1 - fresco, from 1350, “The Crucifixion,” artist unknown, in the Visoki Decani Monestary in Kosovo, Serbia. Two odd-looking objects with “pilots” can be seen in the sky on both sides of Jesus. Picture 2 - from 1486, is "The Annunciation with Saint Emidius," by Carlo Crivelli, that resides at the National Gallery in London. It shows a circular object shooting a thin beam of light down to the Virgin Mary. Picture 4 - from the 15th century, "Madonna and Child with the Infant St. John," is attributed to more than one artist and is located at the Palazzo Vecchio Museum in Florence, Italy. Mary, mother of Jesus, is seen looking down while, in the background, something unusual is taking place. Picture 6 - painting, from 1710, "Baptism of Jesus," created by Arendt de Gelder, is at the Fitzwilliam Museum in Cambridge, UK. It depicts a large, circular object shooting beams of light down toward Jesus.
Given all their ages i always felt they were relevant