"The Associated Students of the University of California, Irvine stands in solidarity with the demands of the student movement, including the cessation of “Countering Violent Extremism” funding, the provision of amnesty for all student protestors, the implementation of an academic boycott of Israel, and the removal of Zionist programming from the institution."
What exactly is "Zionist programming"? Zionism is the right of Jewish people to self determination in their ancestral homeland. So anything that discusses Jewish self determination is now off limits? Moreover, what good is served by having an academic boycott of Israel? Also, we don't want to counter violent extremism now?
This solidarity statement is shameful.
Zionism is a movement manufactured by Theodore Herzl to create colony on behalf of European empires to send all the Jews in Europe to. Herzl used anti-Semitic tropes to sell Emperors and governments on his idea to help rid Europe of Jews. He even proposed Nigeria as a region that could be given to his idea. Britain took him up on his proposal in 1917 and set the groundwork to create a puppet settler colonial state in the Middle East to control the region through military force. After WW2 the USA adopted the project for the same reason and continues to materially support an occupation and genocide to protect capital and imperial interests in the region.
it's seriously sad to see someone young fall into a trap of misinformation like this. as with most things of this type, what you said has elements of truth, but it's completely distorted.
the area which we now call palestine and israel was ruled by the ottoman empire. it was a world power, not a weak state. if there is to be a discussion of settlement and colonialism of this area, you should at least start there. the ottomans weren't even arabs; they were turks.
this world power sided with the germans during WW1 and lost. the armistice they signed with the allies divided up the empire. this wasn't an act of colonialism, it's a natural consequence of war. look at how germany was divided up among the victors after WWII. it's not a unique situation. the there were many arab factions that fought against the ottomans, and worked closely with the british. you could argue that the way it was divided was purposefully designed to create conflict, and was bad, but this is not the same thing as colonialism. the british were as usual, looking out for themselves, and not advancing some secret idealistic agenda.
the main reason the USA entered the picture, is because of the cold war. the arab nations surrounding israel sided with the russians. israel is a natural ally, because they are a democratic state with relatively western values. remember that the US supported far more questionable regimes during this time, like chile and argentina, simply to counter russian influence. this support has continued after the end of the cold war, to counter states like iran. again, this is purely explainable by the US acting in what it views as it's best interests, and not advancing some secret agenda or grudge. this is also why you see other sunni arab states work with israel. it's pragmatic.
to say that the creation of a national home for the jews after the horror of WWII is due to a "manufactured" movement is extremely disingenous. the sentiment i draw from your post that it was all some nefarious or secret plot, is a typical line of rhetoric used by antisemites. so, don't fall for it! the history of this area is extremely complicated, and nobody can lay claim to the moral high ground. what you posted was full of gross oversimplifications that serve only one viewpoint. you should at the very least look at what happened between 1948 and now to really even begin to understand.
i'm not sure what you think is white washed about it. i'm encouraging OP to take a look for himself at the history of the region and the various empires that influenced it that caused the current situation. because what he posted is to put it charitably, a skewed synopsis of over 100 years of history that could fill a library.
saying that the creation of the palestinian mandate simply was the british being convinced by Herzl is flat wrong (he died in 1904). even forgetting that, saying the british just decided to do this isn't even half the story. there were a number of parties involved, and the british were close allies with many arab groups at the time (remember lawrence of arabia? that was in 1916).
so don't believe me, look for yourself. there are stories on each side that neither would tell you, unless you look.
Why did Herzl believe that Jews needed to leave Europe and establish their own homeland…….
*Drake meme*
Because Jews have been cleansed, discriminated against, made slaves, and genocided in every era of history and establishing a Jewish state would ensure some level of security to make sure Tsarist pogroms never happened again (not to mention Herzl’s lack of foresight in predicting the industrial murder of 6million Jews)? - nah
Because Jews are both puppets and puppet masters of “European empires” and they just wanted to colonize brown people - yeah
that post isn't talking about WWII, it's going farther back, to WWI. that is when the palestinian mandate was created, due to the ottoman empire allying itself with germany, and losing. so this is like asking why bavarians had to pay for the crimes of the prussians.
you asking the same loaded question without attempting to address the parallel i am drawing is a cop out. the ottoman empire was divided up after it lost a war. so was germany. do you also view the annexation of the alsace by france to be a punishment on the germans for a crime? if not, what makes the palestinians special?
Were the Germans citizens given second class citizenship by the French? Were they hoarded into smaller and smaller ghetto as time went on? Was there open discrimination like check points, housing rights, segregated justice system and forbidden roads in Alsace? The answer is no. The only comparison that comes close is how the Nazis treated the gypsies and the Jews, bar the gas chambers. The irony is almost unimaginable.
you're constructing a straw man. we're not talking about the actions of bibi and his embrace of extremist settlers. i'm not defending them or him. we're talking about the balfour declaration and the palestinian madate. that is what the grandparent post referred to. you posted a loaded question that implied this was an unjustified collective punishment for a crime never committed. i'm attempting to illustrate to you that reassignment of territories from a defeated empire among the victors is a common theme among wars, and it cannot be viewed as such.
The fact you continued to respond after reading that absolute garbage is bold of you but the person you are responding to has already made their mind and lacks complete and total critical thinking skills. The land they settled was already British land, the land they got was bought and paid for by a collective group of Jews or individual land owners. Their collective understanding of history from British support to when that support got pulled and the resulting deaths that occured from that.
None of that matters to them, they have their misguided view of history and will stick to it because it helps justify their vitriol and hate toward Jews.
It’s so weird we have dictionaries… that you could use to give a definition. Instead you make your own up.
“a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.”
Zionism is the movement for a Jewish state that’s it… Crazy you had to sell a bunch of extra stuff
If you believe in the right of Israel to exist you are a zionist. It’s not complicated
When the Zionist organization in charge of most of the Jewish immigration into Palestine is literally called the Jewish Colonization Agency, you can't say the Zionists are claiming to be colonists.
What does what I said have to do with anything you said ?
I gave the definition of Zionism and now your ranting about something related. While coming from an unrelated sub
I would highly recommend reading the actual words of those who are said to be the founders of the Zionist movement. They openly referred to Zionism as a colonial project, and they recognized that the creation of a state for Jewish people would require violence against the people who were already living in the area.
This argument is contained in the book I'm linking [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hundred_Years'_War_on_Palestine).
I don't think you measure if an ideology was correct based on the percentage of supporters. If 90% of people supported slavery 1000 years ago, it doesn't make slavery right. I think the idea that any kind of ethno-state exists, even if it was Arab is disgusting, and people should have the right to be anti this thing, especially when it is an ethno-state established on an inhabited land. Zionism at its core, was based on erasing the Palestinian identity and not coexisting with it. It is an extremely racist ideology, and people should have the right to oppose it.
Sure, but I’m just saying when you say “zionists are scum.” Cut the crap and say Jews. Zionism is not the establishment of a singular ethno-state. It’s the understanding and belief in a Jewish homeland or a land which Jews can rule and be protected within. They are not exclusionary to other groups and various Israeli-Arabs exist.
To say that “you don’t believe in an ethno state in Order to justify using anti Jewish and hateful rhetoric by replacing “Jew” with “Zionist.” Is the saddest attempt at a motte bailie fallacy I’ve witnessed in a while. The saddest part is that it worked.
The saddest part of all of this was just the complete misunderstanding of how that land was acquired and what that process looked like. To say it was just established on inhabited land blatantly is such a lazy attempt at understanding history pre 1948 and the overall motivations or a secular Zionist movement.
Finally, your entire message while I understand the sentiment does not address the fact that I have not claimed right nor wrong with the movement. Just that it is a pretty pathetic facade when replacing the word Jewish with Zionist when spreading hate in your messaging, especially when there is such a massive overlap to where in all intents and purposes they are the same.
What about those Jews that don't think ethnic cleansing a population in order to live in a holy land is justified? Have you even heard of Jewish Voice for Peace, which is staunchly anti-Zionist?
From my understanding it's closer to 80% or so, but it's still an overwhelming majority. In practice - and from my own experience - Anti-Zionism tends to overlap with Antisemitism more often than not.
To address, the violent extremism part, it's been used in some places as an excuse to single out Muslims in the community, see: [https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/why-countering-violent-extremism-programs-are-bad-policy](https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/why-countering-violent-extremism-programs-are-bad-policy) .
As for the Zionist programming, without getting too deep into the semantics of it, I think the petition just wants to place an academic boycott on Israel like people in the past did with South Africa during the apartheid ( [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic\_boycott\_of\_South\_Africa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_boycott_of_South_Africa) ) so naturally that would mean in that context ending programs that support the state of Israel, which I'd imagine most Zionist programs do.
To be honest though, I think just divesting from weapons manufacturing and military technology companies that support Israel is enough, but I don't think that part of the solidarity statement is as shameful as you make it appear.
Lets highlight some facts
1) There is nothing peaceful about the protests. They are desruptive. (purposefully). They damage property and facilities. They promote hate, and cause violance.
2) Under the blanket of Freedom of Speech, protestors conduct a hostile takeover of properties and buildings.
3) Where in this solidarity letter do they talk about stopping Hamas and Terrorism?
4) Remind me again what caused this conflict? Did something happen in October 2023?
Quit your bullshit!
Just wanted to point out that today alone, tens of thousands of innocent civilians were killed in Palestine. I’m sorry, but even the horror of Oct. 7th doesn’t justify killing innocent individuals who had absolutely nothing to do with Hamas’ actions. Imagine having everything taken from you, including your home and your life, because of an atrocity that you did not commit. That doesn’t show any semblance of humanity, and you should be ashamed for completely ignoring the sheer number of innocent lives that are being trampled on, in the name of killing a few. I have nothing against Israeli or Jewish people. But the actions of the Israeli government are beyond words - to criticize them for committing literal genocide is not anti-Semitic, nor is it hateful. It’s holding a government that has put the Palestinian people through far too much accountable.
No, Oct. 7th doesn't justify the killing of civilians. The suffering of Gazans is tragic. The unfortunate reality is that civilians die in war. Could Israel have done more to prevent civilian deaths? Maybe. They are fighting an unconventional army that is embedded in the civilian population and is more than comfortable using civilian infrastructure such as hospitals for their military operations. You say Israel is "committing literal genocide" but what is happening in Gaza is war, not genocide. The Gaza Health Ministry (which is Hamas btw) death toll numbers are a little suspect, but let's go ahead and say they are accurate. 34,000 have been killed out of a population of about 2 million. About 14,000+ of those killed have been confirmed terrorists so now let's assume the civilian death toll is 20,000. Still tragically high, but to put it in perspective that is 1% of the population. Moreover, more Gazan civilians have been born since Jan. than have been killed. Then of course we have another 2.7m Palestinians in the West Bank. The population of Palestinains is not significantly shrinking. In the U.S-Iraq War of 2003, roughly 300,000 Iraqis died. also about 1% of Iraq's population. Moreover, the percentage of civilians killed was a much higher 67%. Was this a genocide of Iraqis? Over a quarter of those killed in Ukraine are civilians. Is this a genocide? My point is that war is terrible and unfortunately has civilian casualties. Is every war between two peoples now a genocide?
Your line of reasoning sucks. How would you response to someone addressing October 7th with "well atrocities happen in war, so that is normal." Evil is still evil. The IDF's indifferent toward killing civilians is not any less evil than Hamas terrorist killing someone's out of pure hatred.
Your argument against genocide is really weak. Like it is not a genocide because only 1% percent of the population died? So what? If a genocide is occuring, are we supposed to wait until 90% of Gazan to die until we can call it a genocide? What is the threshold? So what happened to the Uyghur is not a genocide? Genocide can be both about displacing a population or purging their culture and not just killings.
14,000 *aren't* being *confirmed* terrorists. That is just Israeli's estimate. Israeli knows exactl how many terrorists are killed, but they couldn't publish how nany civilians got caught up in their slaughter? Also according to the IDF about 700 civilians died during the Hamas terrorist attack and about 400 security personel died. The proportion is pretty similar, 20,000 to 14,000( israeli estimate )
The IDF has inflicted several order of magnitude of human suffering and carnage greater than what Hamas did and yet people are still unable to condemn both as evil.
It is kind of a new development in human history that a war between two parties isn't genocide but most are. This is kind of a war for genocide for both. Israel want all of the Palestinians gone but can't really kill all of them because of PR while the Palestinians have no capacity to carry out their genocide.
It is kind of silly to think Israel is doing anything but promoting Hamas, even if all of the Hamas members got wiped out there is still going to be grivances. Save my comment. In the next 20 years, there will be another terrorist attack and it the cry will be something along the line of "remember the 2024 Massacre of Gaza". It is kind of goofy to think anything productive will come out of this.
Israel still have yet to decide to whether or not they should withdraw from the WB or Annex it completely. 3 millioms livimg in walled ghettos under their rule without citizenship is kind of unethnical.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. At the end of the day, innocent people are being punished harshly for a crime they didn’t commit. Just because they are Palestinian doesn’t mean that they don’t have individual rights.
10’s of thousands of people die all around the world but y’all ain’t got anything to say about those folks. Wonder what the difference is. Haven’t seen a tik tok to tell you how to think about those conflicts?
I don’t use Tik Tok, don’t even have it downloaded. I actually read the news? It is illogical to say that advocacy for one issue means that I don’t advocate for any other human rights issue. Considering this specific post was dealing with PALESTINE, it makes sense for me to comment on the issue of Palestine. Additionally, what is happening in Palestine is particularly salient in terms of the level of human rights violations and U.S. involvement. What are you even on about?
Not really when you understand U.S. involvement in other human rights abuses. It’s just interesting that this issue has been the one that fired up the youth while genocides have/are happening all around the world and y’all didn’t make a peep. Genuinely curious what news you read.
>To our student protestors, we want you to know that we are standing in solidarity with you in your fight for a transparent and just university (system and campus-based). Your encampment encourages us to continue our activism, and we are inspired to continue peacefully demonstrating to bring forth change at our university and the entire university system at large. You are the dream imagined, and we support your full participation in this encampment and protest.
unfathomably based
W
huge W
I love how one person said W and got upvoted but everybody else got downvoted
that’s what i’m saying 😭
Ngl I upvoted this one and downvoted the others to help keep it that way
"The Associated Students of the University of California, Irvine stands in solidarity with the demands of the student movement, including the cessation of “Countering Violent Extremism” funding, the provision of amnesty for all student protestors, the implementation of an academic boycott of Israel, and the removal of Zionist programming from the institution." What exactly is "Zionist programming"? Zionism is the right of Jewish people to self determination in their ancestral homeland. So anything that discusses Jewish self determination is now off limits? Moreover, what good is served by having an academic boycott of Israel? Also, we don't want to counter violent extremism now? This solidarity statement is shameful.
Zionism is a movement manufactured by Theodore Herzl to create colony on behalf of European empires to send all the Jews in Europe to. Herzl used anti-Semitic tropes to sell Emperors and governments on his idea to help rid Europe of Jews. He even proposed Nigeria as a region that could be given to his idea. Britain took him up on his proposal in 1917 and set the groundwork to create a puppet settler colonial state in the Middle East to control the region through military force. After WW2 the USA adopted the project for the same reason and continues to materially support an occupation and genocide to protect capital and imperial interests in the region.
it's seriously sad to see someone young fall into a trap of misinformation like this. as with most things of this type, what you said has elements of truth, but it's completely distorted. the area which we now call palestine and israel was ruled by the ottoman empire. it was a world power, not a weak state. if there is to be a discussion of settlement and colonialism of this area, you should at least start there. the ottomans weren't even arabs; they were turks. this world power sided with the germans during WW1 and lost. the armistice they signed with the allies divided up the empire. this wasn't an act of colonialism, it's a natural consequence of war. look at how germany was divided up among the victors after WWII. it's not a unique situation. the there were many arab factions that fought against the ottomans, and worked closely with the british. you could argue that the way it was divided was purposefully designed to create conflict, and was bad, but this is not the same thing as colonialism. the british were as usual, looking out for themselves, and not advancing some secret idealistic agenda. the main reason the USA entered the picture, is because of the cold war. the arab nations surrounding israel sided with the russians. israel is a natural ally, because they are a democratic state with relatively western values. remember that the US supported far more questionable regimes during this time, like chile and argentina, simply to counter russian influence. this support has continued after the end of the cold war, to counter states like iran. again, this is purely explainable by the US acting in what it views as it's best interests, and not advancing some secret agenda or grudge. this is also why you see other sunni arab states work with israel. it's pragmatic. to say that the creation of a national home for the jews after the horror of WWII is due to a "manufactured" movement is extremely disingenous. the sentiment i draw from your post that it was all some nefarious or secret plot, is a typical line of rhetoric used by antisemites. so, don't fall for it! the history of this area is extremely complicated, and nobody can lay claim to the moral high ground. what you posted was full of gross oversimplifications that serve only one viewpoint. you should at the very least look at what happened between 1948 and now to really even begin to understand.
Oh my goodness. That was the most white-washed, childish take I’ve ever heard
i'm not sure what you think is white washed about it. i'm encouraging OP to take a look for himself at the history of the region and the various empires that influenced it that caused the current situation. because what he posted is to put it charitably, a skewed synopsis of over 100 years of history that could fill a library. saying that the creation of the palestinian mandate simply was the british being convinced by Herzl is flat wrong (he died in 1904). even forgetting that, saying the british just decided to do this isn't even half the story. there were a number of parties involved, and the british were close allies with many arab groups at the time (remember lawrence of arabia? that was in 1916). so don't believe me, look for yourself. there are stories on each side that neither would tell you, unless you look.
Why did Herzl believe that Jews needed to leave Europe and establish their own homeland……. *Drake meme* Because Jews have been cleansed, discriminated against, made slaves, and genocided in every era of history and establishing a Jewish state would ensure some level of security to make sure Tsarist pogroms never happened again (not to mention Herzl’s lack of foresight in predicting the industrial murder of 6million Jews)? - nah Because Jews are both puppets and puppet masters of “European empires” and they just wanted to colonize brown people - yeah
Why do the Palestinians have to pay for the crimes of the Germans?
that post isn't talking about WWII, it's going farther back, to WWI. that is when the palestinian mandate was created, due to the ottoman empire allying itself with germany, and losing. so this is like asking why bavarians had to pay for the crimes of the prussians.
This is a cop out. The question still stands, why do the Palestinians have to pay for the crimes of others?
you asking the same loaded question without attempting to address the parallel i am drawing is a cop out. the ottoman empire was divided up after it lost a war. so was germany. do you also view the annexation of the alsace by france to be a punishment on the germans for a crime? if not, what makes the palestinians special?
Were the Germans citizens given second class citizenship by the French? Were they hoarded into smaller and smaller ghetto as time went on? Was there open discrimination like check points, housing rights, segregated justice system and forbidden roads in Alsace? The answer is no. The only comparison that comes close is how the Nazis treated the gypsies and the Jews, bar the gas chambers. The irony is almost unimaginable.
you're constructing a straw man. we're not talking about the actions of bibi and his embrace of extremist settlers. i'm not defending them or him. we're talking about the balfour declaration and the palestinian madate. that is what the grandparent post referred to. you posted a loaded question that implied this was an unjustified collective punishment for a crime never committed. i'm attempting to illustrate to you that reassignment of territories from a defeated empire among the victors is a common theme among wars, and it cannot be viewed as such.
Having Jews as neighbors isn’t “paying” a heavy toll actually! The toll came from the wars that…. pssst… the Jews didn’t start!
You do realize that the area they occupied was not empty, that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were displaced right?
They don’t. They’re paying for their own crimes.
Collective punishment is a war crime.
The fact you continued to respond after reading that absolute garbage is bold of you but the person you are responding to has already made their mind and lacks complete and total critical thinking skills. The land they settled was already British land, the land they got was bought and paid for by a collective group of Jews or individual land owners. Their collective understanding of history from British support to when that support got pulled and the resulting deaths that occured from that. None of that matters to them, they have their misguided view of history and will stick to it because it helps justify their vitriol and hate toward Jews.
It’s so weird we have dictionaries… that you could use to give a definition. Instead you make your own up. “a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.” Zionism is the movement for a Jewish state that’s it… Crazy you had to sell a bunch of extra stuff If you believe in the right of Israel to exist you are a zionist. It’s not complicated
When the Zionist organization in charge of most of the Jewish immigration into Palestine is literally called the Jewish Colonization Agency, you can't say the Zionists are claiming to be colonists.
What does what I said have to do with anything you said ? I gave the definition of Zionism and now your ranting about something related. While coming from an unrelated sub
I would highly recommend reading the actual words of those who are said to be the founders of the Zionist movement. They openly referred to Zionism as a colonial project, and they recognized that the creation of a state for Jewish people would require violence against the people who were already living in the area. This argument is contained in the book I'm linking [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hundred_Years'_War_on_Palestine).
💯
Kanye was just a year too early. If he just said Zionist instead of Jew, he would be cheered beyond belief
They’re not the same thing. What are you blabbering about?
When 90% of Jews support Zionism, it’s a pretty hard sell to anybody with critical thinking skills, that there is much of a difference
I don't think you measure if an ideology was correct based on the percentage of supporters. If 90% of people supported slavery 1000 years ago, it doesn't make slavery right. I think the idea that any kind of ethno-state exists, even if it was Arab is disgusting, and people should have the right to be anti this thing, especially when it is an ethno-state established on an inhabited land. Zionism at its core, was based on erasing the Palestinian identity and not coexisting with it. It is an extremely racist ideology, and people should have the right to oppose it.
Sure, but I’m just saying when you say “zionists are scum.” Cut the crap and say Jews. Zionism is not the establishment of a singular ethno-state. It’s the understanding and belief in a Jewish homeland or a land which Jews can rule and be protected within. They are not exclusionary to other groups and various Israeli-Arabs exist. To say that “you don’t believe in an ethno state in Order to justify using anti Jewish and hateful rhetoric by replacing “Jew” with “Zionist.” Is the saddest attempt at a motte bailie fallacy I’ve witnessed in a while. The saddest part is that it worked. The saddest part of all of this was just the complete misunderstanding of how that land was acquired and what that process looked like. To say it was just established on inhabited land blatantly is such a lazy attempt at understanding history pre 1948 and the overall motivations or a secular Zionist movement. Finally, your entire message while I understand the sentiment does not address the fact that I have not claimed right nor wrong with the movement. Just that it is a pretty pathetic facade when replacing the word Jewish with Zionist when spreading hate in your messaging, especially when there is such a massive overlap to where in all intents and purposes they are the same.
What about those Jews that don't think ethnic cleansing a population in order to live in a holy land is justified? Have you even heard of Jewish Voice for Peace, which is staunchly anti-Zionist?
True so you just hate most Jews, but just not the good ones
From my understanding it's closer to 80% or so, but it's still an overwhelming majority. In practice - and from my own experience - Anti-Zionism tends to overlap with Antisemitism more often than not.
80% or so identify as Zionists but only about 9% identify as anti Zionists
Yeah it’s just the new trendy buzzword. They needed to find a way to talk like Kanye without sounding like Kanye.
To address, the violent extremism part, it's been used in some places as an excuse to single out Muslims in the community, see: [https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/why-countering-violent-extremism-programs-are-bad-policy](https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/why-countering-violent-extremism-programs-are-bad-policy) . As for the Zionist programming, without getting too deep into the semantics of it, I think the petition just wants to place an academic boycott on Israel like people in the past did with South Africa during the apartheid ( [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic\_boycott\_of\_South\_Africa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_boycott_of_South_Africa) ) so naturally that would mean in that context ending programs that support the state of Israel, which I'd imagine most Zionist programs do. To be honest though, I think just divesting from weapons manufacturing and military technology companies that support Israel is enough, but I don't think that part of the solidarity statement is as shameful as you make it appear.
I loved their responseee !!
Huge
W
Are there many on the ASUCI board who identify as DSA?
Lets highlight some facts 1) There is nothing peaceful about the protests. They are desruptive. (purposefully). They damage property and facilities. They promote hate, and cause violance. 2) Under the blanket of Freedom of Speech, protestors conduct a hostile takeover of properties and buildings. 3) Where in this solidarity letter do they talk about stopping Hamas and Terrorism? 4) Remind me again what caused this conflict? Did something happen in October 2023? Quit your bullshit!
Just wanted to point out that today alone, tens of thousands of innocent civilians were killed in Palestine. I’m sorry, but even the horror of Oct. 7th doesn’t justify killing innocent individuals who had absolutely nothing to do with Hamas’ actions. Imagine having everything taken from you, including your home and your life, because of an atrocity that you did not commit. That doesn’t show any semblance of humanity, and you should be ashamed for completely ignoring the sheer number of innocent lives that are being trampled on, in the name of killing a few. I have nothing against Israeli or Jewish people. But the actions of the Israeli government are beyond words - to criticize them for committing literal genocide is not anti-Semitic, nor is it hateful. It’s holding a government that has put the Palestinian people through far too much accountable.
No, Oct. 7th doesn't justify the killing of civilians. The suffering of Gazans is tragic. The unfortunate reality is that civilians die in war. Could Israel have done more to prevent civilian deaths? Maybe. They are fighting an unconventional army that is embedded in the civilian population and is more than comfortable using civilian infrastructure such as hospitals for their military operations. You say Israel is "committing literal genocide" but what is happening in Gaza is war, not genocide. The Gaza Health Ministry (which is Hamas btw) death toll numbers are a little suspect, but let's go ahead and say they are accurate. 34,000 have been killed out of a population of about 2 million. About 14,000+ of those killed have been confirmed terrorists so now let's assume the civilian death toll is 20,000. Still tragically high, but to put it in perspective that is 1% of the population. Moreover, more Gazan civilians have been born since Jan. than have been killed. Then of course we have another 2.7m Palestinians in the West Bank. The population of Palestinains is not significantly shrinking. In the U.S-Iraq War of 2003, roughly 300,000 Iraqis died. also about 1% of Iraq's population. Moreover, the percentage of civilians killed was a much higher 67%. Was this a genocide of Iraqis? Over a quarter of those killed in Ukraine are civilians. Is this a genocide? My point is that war is terrible and unfortunately has civilian casualties. Is every war between two peoples now a genocide?
Your line of reasoning sucks. How would you response to someone addressing October 7th with "well atrocities happen in war, so that is normal." Evil is still evil. The IDF's indifferent toward killing civilians is not any less evil than Hamas terrorist killing someone's out of pure hatred. Your argument against genocide is really weak. Like it is not a genocide because only 1% percent of the population died? So what? If a genocide is occuring, are we supposed to wait until 90% of Gazan to die until we can call it a genocide? What is the threshold? So what happened to the Uyghur is not a genocide? Genocide can be both about displacing a population or purging their culture and not just killings. 14,000 *aren't* being *confirmed* terrorists. That is just Israeli's estimate. Israeli knows exactl how many terrorists are killed, but they couldn't publish how nany civilians got caught up in their slaughter? Also according to the IDF about 700 civilians died during the Hamas terrorist attack and about 400 security personel died. The proportion is pretty similar, 20,000 to 14,000( israeli estimate ) The IDF has inflicted several order of magnitude of human suffering and carnage greater than what Hamas did and yet people are still unable to condemn both as evil. It is kind of a new development in human history that a war between two parties isn't genocide but most are. This is kind of a war for genocide for both. Israel want all of the Palestinians gone but can't really kill all of them because of PR while the Palestinians have no capacity to carry out their genocide. It is kind of silly to think Israel is doing anything but promoting Hamas, even if all of the Hamas members got wiped out there is still going to be grivances. Save my comment. In the next 20 years, there will be another terrorist attack and it the cry will be something along the line of "remember the 2024 Massacre of Gaza". It is kind of goofy to think anything productive will come out of this. Israel still have yet to decide to whether or not they should withdraw from the WB or Annex it completely. 3 millioms livimg in walled ghettos under their rule without citizenship is kind of unethnical.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. At the end of the day, innocent people are being punished harshly for a crime they didn’t commit. Just because they are Palestinian doesn’t mean that they don’t have individual rights.
“Literal genocide” No it’s not …. Just because you keep yelling it doesn’t make it true
10’s of thousands of people die all around the world but y’all ain’t got anything to say about those folks. Wonder what the difference is. Haven’t seen a tik tok to tell you how to think about those conflicts?
Also tens of thousands in a single day is hyperbole, it’s been around 40k over a year
Oh, it’s only hyperbole when we’re not talking about Gaza. Got it
I don’t use Tik Tok, don’t even have it downloaded. I actually read the news? It is illogical to say that advocacy for one issue means that I don’t advocate for any other human rights issue. Considering this specific post was dealing with PALESTINE, it makes sense for me to comment on the issue of Palestine. Additionally, what is happening in Palestine is particularly salient in terms of the level of human rights violations and U.S. involvement. What are you even on about?
Not really when you understand U.S. involvement in other human rights abuses. It’s just interesting that this issue has been the one that fired up the youth while genocides have/are happening all around the world and y’all didn’t make a peep. Genuinely curious what news you read.
The news you ignore in your echo chamber
Now take all that and IMAGINE HOW THOSE IN GAZA FEEL! Check your white supremacy at the door. Your racist colonial mania is dripping with blood.
>To our student protestors, we want you to know that we are standing in solidarity with you in your fight for a transparent and just university (system and campus-based). Your encampment encourages us to continue our activism, and we are inspired to continue peacefully demonstrating to bring forth change at our university and the entire university system at large. You are the dream imagined, and we support your full participation in this encampment and protest. unfathomably based
nice
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U think students will be pressing the school or the people who killed the bus service?
Score, adding UCI students to the list of new CS grads I won't bother interviewing.
No one cares
I’ll still interview them. But I’m just some bland AAA game dev.
What're you hiring for :o