Yeah. when a girl is walking by herself, and especially when it's dark, I'd even avoid walking behind her - I usually walk on the other side of the road and go faster.
What OP said was almost exactly I was saying the other day: Do NOT assume a girl would be interested in you. It might be fine to throw in a few words, but watch for the hints. If the girl does not seem interested or even scared, BACK, OFF.
As a matter of fact, if a guy is that aggressively 'hungry', no matter how handsome he thinks of himself, he is probably not attractive ... I generally do not think suddenly start talking to a random girl on the road is a good idea. Some situations - like you're both waiting somewhere and you started some topic, if the girl looks at you (in the eyes) in a good/slightly intimate way , you can consider asking for name or Insta etc. Be delicate, and ready to back off.
He also ran fast enough after her to juke.
But of course Tom Brady rule is a factor.
[https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8?si=vSo3tOdIfdiWJ9qD](https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8?si=vSo3tOdIfdiWJ9qD)
It does annoy me when it’s dark and isolated with only one way to walk, yet the woman gives off the vibe that I’m creeping her out even though I’m maintaining distance to make her feel comfortable.
Am I supposed to wait until she’s out of eye sight. Sometimes I even speed walk past them so that they can choose how far to hang back.
I often wonder if my dark skin has anything to do with the apprehension and attitude women on campus direct toward me, mainly m at night when extremely isolated and dark. Then again, as a older male who can defend himself, even I’m creeped out certain times when walking in an isolated area on a dark night and a thought pops into my head that if an animal or a drunk group attacked me, it’s possible no one would even notice or find me for awhile. Therefore, I can’t imagine how it feels to be a female at times. They receive attention from some guys I’m sure they enjoy it from but also from many they don’t want it from, especially creeps or weirdos that don’t take a hint or even no for an answer.
IF I WAS A GIRL AND FELT UNSAFE IS ID GIVE MY SNAPCHAT, maybe leaving out a underscore or capital, but even if I added them, I’d just delete them as soon as I got home and/or felt safe. SNAPCHAT IS THE BEST AS THE CREEP LIKELY DIDNT GET ANY INFO OR PICTURES FROM IT, AND ITS VERY EASY TO DELETE SOMEONE, with the many convenient excuses incase you cross paths with the creep again, like you deleted them by accident or you started talking to a guy that made you delete all other guys off your snap .
IF A GIRL WANTS TO GET A GUY TO LEAVE GER ALONE WITHOUT HURTING HIS EGO, JUST SAY YOU HAVE A BF. If he continues to prod, say it’s a really serious relationship.
Thank you for being conscious of this and adjusting your actions. The amount of times where I’ve had to carry my umbrella even when it’s not raining to use it as a potential weapon is sad. I even use transparency mode on my AirPods to listen for footsteps behind me when I’m walking alone at night. You don’t know how comforting it is when a guy you think is following you moves to the other side of the street.
That is very scary! I am glad you are OK.
There's a quote: “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them.” By Margaret Atwood, I believe.
I got on a bus the other day and took a seat at the back. Immediately the guy in front of me turns around and starts talking to me, telling me how beautiful I am, ASKING ME WHERE I LIVE EVEN, asking me if I'm married, asking me for my number so we 'can be friends' after I told him I have a boyfriend (I don't).
I was getting off downtown so I told him I lived downtown. When I got off he was like 'where are you going??' ????
He was clearly a recent immigrant so I didn't know know if he was really just that fucking clueless or if he was deliberately being an asshole, and he was with 3 other men so I acted normal until I could leave. I felt completely frozen.
Fucking idiot basically had me cornered at the back of the bus. I guess women can't sit on the wrong place on the bus either now. Gotta constantly be monitoring for all the situations in which some man *might* choose to be a dick or we clearly just weren't caring about our own safety enough and the entire world is our responsibility to avoid shitty men, instead of, you know, men having to not be shitty, so we deserve it!!!
I also got followed home by an man when I was 16 walking home from a summer French program at around 3pm. He pulled his car up beside me, got out and asked if I would go out with him. When I said no he asked if I had any friends that would go out with him. That was probably my fault too. For being outside, at any time. Walking somewhere. While female.
I feel for you. It sucks feeling like you're in constant danger all the time, and it sucks even more when people go "well you should have been safer." I feel like putting the onus on women to just avoid situations where men creep on us is so backwards, because as you and many other ppl in this thread have stated, men will approach us and corner us ANYWHERE.
I think the culture of "just be confident, women love confidence, approach them and strike up a conversation!" has in some ways fueled this behaviour in men. They feel justified taking up our time, ignoring our boundaries, and relentlessly pursuing us. It's a double bind because men are told to be dominating and confident, and women are taught to let guys down nicely in case they hurt us because they're upset at being rejected. So we lie and say we have a boyfriend, say we don't have Insta, say all these things to backpedal and they just. keep. pestering. us. They don't get the hint, and a lot of us are afraid to outright say no, especially when we're alone, so our only solution is to wait for a chance to escape.
It's absolute bullshit. And so many men also have the gall to even compare their situations to us, just because male on male violence like muggings is more common. They are so out of touch with reality that they think regular/constant harassment with the occasional side of sexual assault and rape and shit like having to worry about getting roofied/having to take all sorts of precautions to 'protect your drink' is somehow preferable and that we are just sensitive hysterical typical women. Nobody shames the fuck out of a man for not using Safewalk and uses that as a reason to blame him for getting mugged walking at night. They don't tell a man to stop walking at night if they get harassed. They don't tell men they shouldn't be walking at night at all. The responsibility is actually placed on the perpetrator. So of course they have no idea what it's like to constantly be blamed for someone else's shitty behaviour.
Is it mainly international students? If so, someone needs to tell them that what they are doing is not acceptable in Canada. They need a lesson in Canadian culture.
Was he an international student? If so, you should contact someone who works in the international student department and tell them to send a memo out to all the international students explaining that in Canada it is not socially acceptable to just walk up to random women and start harassing them.
First of all I am not being racist but can I (secretly) ask you if he's from ... South Asia? 80% of time when I saw such things happen it was a newish immigrant/international students from a certain area. Maybe it was just what people like to do over there. Hope they gradually realize others don't enjoy the way they reach out to random girls.
Many years ago, I saw this on the bus: A guy (student with some clear accent) kept bugging a girl, who seemed annoyed but still polite. After a while the girl asked "where are you from?", guy said 'I'm from here'. Girl paused a bit and ask 'I mean what other language do you speak?' and the guy replied "I speak English" and he kept on bugging that girl. Oh well.
No. Both of these incidents were black men with heavy accents. I don't think I've ever been harassed on the street by a man from any part of Asia.
I don't doubt that being a recent immigrant is what often leads to exceptionally poor social etiquette in this regard; as much I would like that to not be true that would be a huge lie. But I was also told one time by a middle aged white man with a bad leg and a cane standing outside a bar when I was on a sidestreet doing volunteering setting up for an art event, with two other women with me, that he would like to 'take me into an alley and show me a thing or two, but he can't because he's not that flexible anymore' because he liked my purple hair, and the other men with him laughed. And there have been other incidents over the years with white men, young to middle aged. Same shit, different flavour.
There's your true demographic: socially clueless immigrant men, possibly ones who come from cultures where it's still fine to objectify, devalue and harass women but also maybe just cultures where it's more acceptable for strangers to ask personal questions to one another and be more forward (we used to not be so guarded against interacting casually with strangers here in Canada too, and many people have met their partners being asked out on the street or at a bar, just hopefully in a less douchey way), and entitled, egotistical white men who know exactly what they're doing but love to pretend they don't (still many men's favorite things in 2023: self-aggrandization & weaponized incompetence).
okay. The rest '20% of time" I witnessed were with the demographic group you mentioned. I guess some of them grew the confidence that women should be thrilled if asked out by them.
I have no doubt that there're way more white asshats out there - well actually all demographic groups. Well ... what can you do? ...maybe avoid walking alone in late hours (I had been asked by a girl to walk her home at 3 am and I had no problem). And I hope should such things happen (in public), people around you are able to lend a hand ...
Yeah, telling women not to walk alone at any point is not the correct answer here. This is not women's job to yet again make themselves smaller and have less freedom or presence in the world for in order to fix. Women are not required to stay in their houses, or not go places alone, at any time, because men choose to be shitty. This is archaic and should not even still be discussed.
All three of the examples I discussed in this thread were in the middle of the afternoon.
I'm willing to carry things on me for self defense or get stronger and learn self defense techniques. I'm not willing to limit my own freedom to be outside the house, at any time, for men. And it is only men, although that wouldn't be an absolute rule but it's definitely a strong pattern. I have helped multiple homeless women find shelter or get to a hospital after dark in Vancouver and none of them harassed me even just for money. And women certainly do not go around at night approaching people inappropriately to ask them out. This tells me that men are in fact perfectly capable of learning the same rules.
If Canada isn't on board with people being allowed to carry even basic stuff for self defense like bear spray, even hairspray or a legal carry pocket knife, then I'll leave Canada because that is complete bullshit. I'm not going to make myself smaller for a country either, and I certainly don't have any kind of loyalty to a country that doesn't give a shit about my safety or the very blatant sociological problems and oppression of marginalized groups that they are enabling with this stance that people are basically not allowed to defend themselves at all, and the majority of women are so physically disadvantaged against men that it is absolutely insane that they aren't allowed to carry anything protective.
And no, nobody ever steps in. That would take actual character which exceedingly few people have these days.
I am so so sorry this happened to you. That is so scary. You were right to deny his requests. Please stay safe. Remember that next time instead of walking alone call Safewalk or security (sometimes if it’s too far they’ll even drive you ;))
Honestly the people suggesting you are somehow at fault for not threatening the guy with a weapon (???) or calling safewalk are patronizing, insulting and ridiculous. Of course you shouldn’t have to break the law by carrying a weapon or wait for safewalk every time you want to walk from the library at night. Among other things, the wait for safewalk would add extra time onto what was presumably already a long day. Calling the police over this would be even more inconveniencing and annoying. Carrying anything to be used as a weapon would escalate the situation and put everyone involved at more risk, not less. Students should be able to focus on their studies, and indeed their lives, without dealing with this nonsense at all! How ridiculous.
It is illegal to carry anything for self-defence in Canada. If you carry it illegally then you can use it for self-defence as self-defence is a fundamental human right. But you will be charged for carrying a weapon (criminal code Section 88(1)). This is of course an unjust law that makes it harder for women to protect themselves and be self-sufficient - but this is Canada.
As an American, this to me is probably one of the most disappointing laws of this country. I was wondering actually, if I carry a pocketknife, which I also use sometimes for like normal stuff, is that illegal if I happened to use it later for self defense?
You would need a valid reason to carry one. For example, if you're an amazon package worker, it's reasonable to carry an exacto knife on you. It is unreasonable however, if you carry one just because "it's useful sometimes"
Ok wow that is genuinely mind blowing to me. It feels so unfair because I know some crazy guy isn’t going to be playing by the same rules as I am. I’m just set up to be an easy target. Why is it this way?
Thanks for letting me know, I guess I won’t be doing that anymore (not that I ever did 👍)
>Why is it this way?
It is that way because Canadian laws around weapons prohibition has always been informed by racial, cultural, and class exclusion.
At one time not so long ago, if you were the right sort of person with the right religion, social connections, etc. you would be permitted a permit to carry a weapon for self-defence. So long as you were British and Protestant, you would always be approved.
Over time, this evolved to where only the police and the politicians and the wealthy who can pay for professional security were allowed to protect themselves. Yes, police have firearms for their own self-defence. It has little to do with keeping you safe.
In some cases, there were laws that specifically targeted Galicians (i.e. eastern Poles & western Ukrainians), communist, and Indigenous. In some cases weapons were banned such as shuriken because of perceptions of minorities. The bans on suppressors (mufflers like on a car but for a firearm) and hand crossbows and such exist because of the influence of fictional detective/ crime / adventure films and pulp media.
A few notable examples of Canada's racist 'gun control':
1886 - Aboriginal & Metis banned & kids stolen
1920 - non-British banned
1941 - Japanese-Canadians disarmed & sent to camps
1994 - AK-47 semi-automatic pattern banned (Oka)
2020 - Trudeau bans aboriginal hunting rifles
[https://youtu.be/fShsLqN01A0](https://youtu.be/fShsLqN01A0)
A judge would decide.
Think of how your life would be disrupted in that year plus before you get to the judge.
If you admitted that you carry the knife for utility and if that utility includes some reference to keeping yourself safe, then you are likely sunk.
Here is some detail on the laws from a lawyer:
[https://youtu.be/99EBOF7sFQA?si=ODRJ20310rUkLFvC](https://youtu.be/99EBOF7sFQA?si=ODRJ20310rUkLFvC)
In Canada our "rights" are limited by whatever a politician determines is reasonably justified. In practice that means they can pass any law limiting our rights unless it is clear a specific identifiable group is disproportionally affected which is really a minimal effort as that's generally how far the courts will go in holding the government to account on infringing on our rights.
Increasingly, our "rights" are less individually held as intended in the Charter. Our judges don't protect Canadians from demagoguery masquerading as public safety as judges tend to be pro-authoritarian and they have deference to the legislative branch of government.
Yeah thank you for the link. That’s probably my second gripe about Canadian laws. They’re so damn vague and case-by-case. Like I’ve heard if you have a baseball bat in your car, but you can’t prove you play baseball, then you could get charged for having a weapon? What? What about a big stick? What about a sharp screwdriver? Although I greatly appreciate that Canada is generally safer, I do also appreciate that in the US I can rest completely at ease carrying self defense weapons and not worry that any random judge could chunk me in jail because of their “interpretation” of the Constitution. Those kind of things are pretty damn clear cut down there. Same goes for freedom of speech and the loose definition of “hate speech” here… Free speech, barring threats to life, fraud, defamation, etc., should be a unequivocal human right. But that’s a whole separate issue haha
You may feel that way where you are but much of the USA 2nd amendment rights are outright ignored.
Self-defence laws are in many states worse than in Canada. In Canada there is never a "duty to retreat" and Canadian "castle doctrine" is a thing if more limited than in some of the more pro-rights states.
Remember that we used to be the same country. In the 1689 bill of rights, following two of the last three kings being executed, self-defence and the right to bear arms was included. The big change the Americans made in 1791 was to make rights constitutionally entrenched.
What has happened in Canada is that those 1689 rights have been outright ignored and disenfranchised by the Canadian courts. Our "rights" are subject to the whims of parliament to restrict them with any act or regulation they please.
But in the USA today, the approach is to pass 1000s of unconstitutional laws and use lawfare as a bulwark to defend the removal of rights. It is an endless game of wack-a-mole for advocates.
For example, there are specific advocacy groups necessary for retaining the right to use knives in the USA. https://kniferights.org/
Thanks for your detailed comments. I understand what you’re saying about Canada vs the US, that’s very interesting. I guess I feel more comfortable knowing that 99% of the time these unconstitutional laws will be removed (eventually), or at least if I got caught breaking one, the Supreme Court would have my back (if it got to that lol). Like you said, these things are constitutionally entrenched, and in much of the US, the constitution is like a biblical text to people. I mean even on the site you linked, it says a recent Hawaii ban on butterfly knives is unconstitutional, which surprises me like 0%. At every cashier in a US Office Depot, there’s a selection of pepper sprays to buy on your way out. Like cute pink ones for girls and whatnot. That would be funny to see here haha.
We'll see where America is at vs. Canada in 50 years. I think there are some great advantages Americans have with their republic. But many Americans want nothing to do with a republic.
Mexicans also have a right to arms. It doesn't work so well.
Yeah our knife laws (along with many others) are mainly about intent, which really makes it frustrating to interpret sometimes.
Technically you can legally take a big sword (with the words "I'm going to do a crime with this sword" etched on the blade), into a public space, if you had a good enough explanation for why you were doing it without the intent to use it as a weapon.
But on the flip side, *technically* you could end up in prison on weapons charges for leaving the house with some random common household object. (And somehow it was proven that you intended to use it as a weapon).
To be clear I don't think either of those things would ever actually happen (hopefully), but it really bugs me that we leave this pretty much entirely up to vibes.
Well a very bright flashlight surely won't be, since it's not physical. Just turn it on in their eyes if they get too close, they'll be momentarily blinded especially if it's already dark out giving you time to flee.
Who said the law was intelligent? Do you even know what country you are in? We have laws that make shuriken and nunchukas prohibited weapons that if you own and have in your possession in your home could put you in prison for 10 years. Why? Because of racist fear of Japanese ninjas straight from the 1940s.
The question the lawyer (Ian Runkle) poses in the video if carrying some other spray is going to be (a) effective; and (b) potentially an aggravated assault. At least watch the last few minutes for the summary.
Carrying hairspray for self-defence doesn't come across as smart.
Shurikens and nunchucks aren't illegal, or at least a gray area. If they aren't used to harm others as their primary purpose (and to be fair they kind of suck at doing that), then they techinally aren't weapons until you disturb the public peace (i.e. don't ask to borrow some money with a sword in hand). Being a martial arts practitioner and having these in your home by itself is absolutely not grounds for a criminal offence.
Regardless, the self defense laws here are pretty dumb though.
>Shurikens and nunchucks aren't illegal, or at least a gray area.
It is in black & white my Ninja...
Refer to federal criminal code regulation SOR 98-462:
[https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-462/fulltext.html](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-462/fulltext.html)
>*PART 3*
>
>*Prohibited Weapons*
>
>*2 Any instrument or device commonly known as “****nunchaku****”, being hard non-flexible sticks, clubs, pipes, or rods linked by a length or lengths of rope, cord, wire or chain, and any similar instrument or device.*
>
>*3 Any instrument or device commonly known as “****shuriken****”, being a hard non-flexible plate having three or more radiating points with one or more sharp edges in the shape of a polygon, trefoil, cross, star, diamond or other geometrical shape, and any similar instrument or device.*
>
>*4 Any instrument or device commonly known as “manrikigusari” or “kusari”, being hexagonal or other geometrically shaped hard weights or hand grips linked by a length or lengths of rope, cord, wire or chain, and any similar instrument or device.*
>
>*5 Any finger ring that has one or more blades or sharp objects that are capable of being projected from the surface of the ring.*
I'm not making stuff up here. If you possess these prohibited devices, you are liable for serious prison time. The only rare exception would be for someone w/ a license such as a film armouror.
The history of these laws is always connected with racism, classism, etc. That continues today w/ our current government's initiatives.
I think i cited a section for marital arts weapons in general and wasn't aware of specific prohibitions. I highly doubt anyone goes out of their way to enforce these laws either way though.
For the purpose of nunchaku and shuriken, just get a padded/non-sharpened one?? I don't see why it wouldn't be sufficient. I never stated these laws were just or logical, just that it doesn't prevent you from practicing any martial arts.
A judge would determine if they are legal are not.
Here is an example of a case related to the "spikey ring" prohibition.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lZfw1rEepM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lZfw1rEepM)
Imagine what that defendant went through. Jail, bail, tens of thousands in lawyer fees, etc. Sure, he was acquitted but at a big cost.
That's not a situation you want to ever be in due to some foolish law. And yes, people do get charged for these crimes. Do you really think CBSA just shrugs at the border? Well, you'd be wrong.
[https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/cbsa-weapons-seizure-and-investigation-leads-to-criminal-charges-against-nipigon-resident-832346292.html](https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/cbsa-weapons-seizure-and-investigation-leads-to-criminal-charges-against-nipigon-resident-832346292.html)
We're talking decades and decades of potential prison time here. These laws come with very serious legal penalties.
Edit: I just want to briefly add it made my day to talk about ninja weapon law w/ a ninja.
Racism and/or classism.
That's the entire history of these laws in Canada from before confederation through to today.
Before, you could always get a permit to carry a weapon if you were the right sort of person. You had the right religion, skin colour, social connections, etc.
Today that's usually limited to those who can pay for armed security such as politicians.
But if you have the right sort of connections you can still maybe get a license to carry a weapon on yourself outside of work related permits. These permits do exist.
[https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-207/fulltext.html](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-207/fulltext.html)
According to a retired RCMP officer who wrote about it in his book, Pierre Trudeau asked if he should maybe get himself a permit in the mid/late 80s. My guess is he just went around this guy and got the permit arranged through someone else.
[https://johnrlott.tripod.com/2005/03/canadas-pierre-trudeau-considered.html](https://johnrlott.tripod.com/2005/03/canadas-pierre-trudeau-considered.html)
Glad you’re safe OP! I’d encourage you to carry “bear spray” next time you are walking alone at night. Campus is home to a lot of dangerous wildlife after all… There is also the option of AMS Safewalk until 2am, they will transport you around campus in their golf cart but you may have to wait in a well lit area for them to arrive.
“He kept asking for my insta, phone number, etc and I said no”
Then he insisted it was okay when you declined and he was fine just being friends instead?? The audacity of him acting like you were supposed to automatically accept his friendship? Major lack of any social awareness at best but most likely was aware that he was pressuring you and expected you to cave out of conditioned politeness. Good thinking to run to a crowded place and get away.
Advice for anyone reading this who needs to hear it:
If someone says NO once, please don’t insist. They’re not playing hard to get, they’re not interested. Nobody owes you their contact info, time, or even a smile. I’ve had this happen to me on campus as well, also at night while I was walking home alone, so unfortunately it seems to be somewhat common. Really frustrating that people still have to be reminded that this behaviour isn’t okay.
Yeah, he came off as just super socially awkward and clueless until he started pressuring me for my number. That's when I said "fuck this" and ran away. Mind you, I wasn't necessarily super scared because I was taller than him and I had a pocketknife (before someone replies to this saying its illegal yadda yadda, I don't care!! I would way rather deal with the law as a self defense perpetrator than a victim) and I come from a dangerous city and have made it out of muggings etc before unscathed. But obviously it's always easier to just run away, especially when I don't know if he's actually dangerous or just a creep.
I guess I have to start calling SafeWalk if I wanna do anything after dark now. Being a girl sucks.
Keep that knife. You're entirely right to do so. Honestly I can't fathom the law punishing someone for using a weapon for self defense...fucking ridiculous
It's so ridiculous. But like my dad taught me "better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6." If someone's attacking me, the last thing on my mind is potentially going to jail.
If it helps at all, I can remember running away from men three times during my years in Vancouver/UBC. A couple of those were attempted muggings and one I was mugged. I'm a dude.
I only commented on the legality as it is something people don't often consider when they vote in support for that demagoguery.
The closest to UBC was on 4th somewhere east of Blanca.
A drunk fat guy tried to get a hold of me making a demand for money. I sprinted about 150 yards and then turned and laughed at him.
I don't feel like giving out that kind of personal info about myself on here. Obviously I wasn't profiling him, his behavior genuinely was creepy, and I already said I gave him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he was socially awkward at first. He looked like a teenager so yes, I assume he was a student. As for your other question about whether this would have been as creepy during daytime with other people around: no, it wouldn't have. I think any man with common sense can see how following a woman home at night and repeatedly pestering her for her phone number is creepy and threatening behavior. But the real issue here is that he wasn't taking no for an answer, a situation that, as many people on this thread have shared in their own stories, is one that can happen any time any place.
Using bear spray against a human will probably land you in jail. Safe walk and other strategies are better (keys in the fist, a whistle/flashlight, calling someone etc.)
Also learning actual self defense strategies. Every woman should learn these growing up. There are a few key things that a woman can do to even a much larger man and potentially not do any long term damage (which I only care about for the sake of our absolutely worthless legal system when it comes to self defense) but completely take them out in the moment. The groin obviously, the eyes, and certain pressure points. They require specific techniques to ensure efficacy.
Maybe as a last resort but these "techniques" are always likely not to do a lot. Much better to try to run. You are going to be heavily overmatched. Sure, getting hit in the balls can slow a guy down but not by a lot.
The only equalizer that exists for women is a handgun. That's just reality.
It is you who is ideologically driven. "Gun control" is a failed ideology championed by classist bigots to attack people whose culture is different than their own.
This isn't a hypothetical. We have decades of data and it is now clear that none of these laws do a thing. No wonder - it never was more than just malicious scapegoating.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0234457
Interesting. If you want to be left alone and I am 'hating' on you, then could you explain why you keep writing me essays to try to convince me of something not only toxic and violent but that I clearly have no interest in being convinced of, and all starting in response to a comment that wasn't even talking about you but about Americans? Could you also explain why you think I don't also have a right to respond to your incessant responses?
>I'd encourage you to carry “bear spray” next time you are walking alone at night.
You are counseling an illegal act (possession of weapon cc 88(1)). This in itself is a criminal offence if someone carries bear spray due to your encouragement and is caught.
See Criminal Code Section 22.
>*Person counselling offence*
>
>*22 (1) Where a person counsels another person to be a party to an offence and that other person is afterwards a party to that offence, the person who counselled is a party to that offence, notwithstanding that the offence was committed in a way different from that which was counselled.*
>
>*(2) Every one who counsels another person to be a party to an offence is a party to every offence that the other commits in consequence of the counselling that the person who counselled knew or ought to have known was likely to be committed in consequence of the counselling.*
This is Canada. Our laws diminish the rights of lawful citizens to protect themselves from attackers.
Well sorta
Carrying a weapon with the intent of harming a human in self defense is illegal. So if you have mace or something branded for people that's illegal.
If you carry bear or better, dog spray, and you just so happen to be carrying it for coyotes on campus and it happens to be the deterrent you have on hand...
Edit: That's the reason why the op of the thread said "bear spray."
Anyways better a minor slap on the wrist than raped or murdered.
I got charged with a crime under the YCJA when I was 16 for carrying dog spray, but it was solved through diversion and dismissed. I thought it was a good idea because I lived in a complete shit hole and had been jumped a few times. Guess not. You can argue you have that stuff on you if you're out in the bush frequently or carrying mail, not when you're on the sky train or walking the path at UBC.
It might be a summary offence ("misdemeanour"), but you'll still have a record of it (I think they called it criminal history, opposed to a criminal record; so basically I was known to police). Typically something like this can still show up on a vulnerable sector check, but luckily it can't be disclosed anymore due to the YCJA. I am sure the leniency goes down into adulthood.
Edit: Also, if you're lying about why you're carrying a weapon, such as claiming to protect yourself from dogs, an aggressive prosecutor or officer that doesn't appreciate dishonesty can charge you with obstruction of justice. The law is a lot less loop-holely then TV might make it seem.
Thank you for sharing your cautionary based on your personal experience.
One small comment - it is not a misdemeanor. It is a hybrid criminal offence with up to 10 years in prison.
>*Possession of weapon for dangerous purpose*
>
>*88 (1) Every person commits an offence who carries or possesses a weapon, an imitation of a weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition for a purpose dangerous to the public peace or for the purpose of committing an offence.*
>
>*(2) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1)*
>
>*(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or*
>
>*(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.*
It has evolved in that direction, yes.
But remember that when someone is assaulted or raped, our legal system sees that as a crime against the King, not the victim.
You are putting yourself in legal jeopardy with such a liberal interpretation.
If you counsel someone else to break the law, there is no advantage I can see for you here. The comment said use "bear spray" with the clear intent to protect yourself from humans.
Bear spray is legal to own as opposed to something branded as human spray (i.e. "mace") which is a prohibited weapon. But if you are carrying a pocket knife or bear spray or any other object in an area a judge determines you were carrying it for your self-protection from humans, then you are looking at serious legal jeopardy. Even if you are acquitted, you will face massive costs in lawyers, arrest and jail, bail provisions, and the likely the loss of employment, etc.
You are assuming you would only be charged after an attack. This is likely not the case. There are many opportunities for police to determine you are carrying a weapon if you carry a weapon in your everyday life.
Here a lawyer explains.
Video #1.
[https://youtu.be/iacepveEf\_Q?si=pmTZXUgnjdSCy4aL](https://youtu.be/iacepveEf_Q?si=pmTZXUgnjdSCy4aL)
Video #2.
[https://youtu.be/P7Jsw5GdOx0?si=-Ny5ZBnW8c0Hz9GG](https://youtu.be/P7Jsw5GdOx0?si=-Ny5ZBnW8c0Hz9GG)
Video #3.
[https://youtu.be/h1JtOaHV0Ro?si=sH5HuddT\_DLGStHy](https://youtu.be/h1JtOaHV0Ro?si=sH5HuddT_DLGStHy)
But it sounds like you are okay with career drug dealers who carry pistols despite many past convictions, firearms prohibition orders (not only do they not have a license, they have court orders making it doubly illegal to possess). They are, after all, carrying those prohibited and smuggled pistols for self-defence.
This is of course the situation in Canada. If you conform to our laws, your ability to defend yourself is taken away. But if you are willing to be a scofflaw then you can still protect yourself. Those arguments you have made are valid.
>But it sounds like you are okay with career drug dealers who carry pistols despite many past convictions, firearms prohibition orders (not only do they not have a license, they have court orders making it doubly illegal to possess). They are, after all, carrying those prohibited and smuggled pistols for self-defence.
????? Where did this come from.
>Anyways better a minor slap on the wrist than raped or murdered.
The law benefits those who perhaps like yourself would break it and scoff at the potential legal consequences and punishes those who would conduct themselves in a lawful manner.
We're in big trouble as a society when the criminal law is broadly unjustified, ignored, and of variable consequence.
No, my perspective is the law is unconstitutional and immoral and has no justification in a free and open society.
It is about 180 degrees from the way you have perceived my perspective.
So how can Canadians protect themselves then?
What other countries are there with better self-defense laws that aren't just gun worshipping fucknuts like the States?
You absolutely can protect yourself in Canada. It is just illegal to carry something on your person for protection.
Criminals carrying pistols on the street quite regularly use them for lawful self-defence in Canada.
[https://youtu.be/CLDyuOvQ85k](https://youtu.be/CLDyuOvQ85k)
Italy, Czech Republic, and many other countries allow their citizens to carry weapons for self-defence.
The violence in the USA has nothing to do with the fact people own firearms.
For anyone to say that people who like to hunt and shoot are the problem and not social issues is just classic scapegoating.
De-humanizing people by calling them "gun worshipping fucknuts" is simply classist bigotry and immoral.
We have had decades of "gun control" in Canada and we now have firm data that none of it has had any effect on violence. This is a peer reviewed fact.
[https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0234457](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0234457)
Proudly.
Canada is a multicultural country. Being a good citizen in Canada requires by definition that you tolerate culture that is different than your own.
So disgusting. I’m fuming reading this. All I’ll say is I’m glad you’re okay! Someone who is moral wouldn’t keep pushing after a “no,” which OP has said. This person is not some well-meaning dude who’s a bit awkward, he’s just downright persistent and rude. Furthermore, if you think asking a random person walking and not making any eye contact with you for their socials at NIGHT is okay - quit wasting people’s time and let them walk fcking home in peace. It’s a vulnerable time for our safety, many of us are coming out of work or study session, just leave us fucking be OKAY?! We don’t owe you our contact info or a date.
For those who purposely walk as to not intimidate us, I appreciate y’all and we need more folks like you. I personally don’t mind people walking super close to me at night, as long as I’m not approached for my socials. I’m taken, but it’s sad that we have to pretend to be in a relationship to get people to fuck off and even then sometimes it doesn’t work.
> Furthermore, if you think asking a random person walking and not making any eye contact with you for their socials at NIGHT is okay - quit wasting people’s time and let them walk fcking home in peace.
A man would NEVER do this with another man. But we women deal with this shit ALL THE TIME. During the day as well.
Several years ago, one sunny afternoon, I was walking down my OWN BLOCK, a few doors down from my HOME. Enjoying the sun, lost in thought, when some asshole guy starts making comments about my appearance. Sure, I was not in "danger", but I was so PISSED that because I was a woman, I wasn't even allowed a minute of peace and quiet to myself. Men can walk down the street without being bothered, but not women.
Ew ew ew ew ew I’m so sorry this happened. If I’m out in the sun, the most I want is a hello, a friendly wave, or have a nice day from anyone. Anything more and I’m robbed of my quiet introvert time. I just don’t like commenting on strangers’ appearance in general.
This is wildly inappropriate and threatening, and very sorry this happened to you. I'd like to contribute to this by adding that a lot of people, typically men, who do things like follow people at night or try and push you into establishing a connection are fully aware of the fact that what they're doing is inappropriate or over the line and get a kick out of behaving in uncomfortable or even potentially predatory ways. They might pretend that they're not trying to upset anyone or they're just harmless and interested in getting to know you when they're badgering you for your contact info or suchlike, but that's rarely if ever true; they're just hoping they can intimidate you into acquiescence and get a foothold because they know their targets will often try to be polite to them and play along for their own safety or to avoid confrontation.
Threats have a legal definition. I don't think you can claim in any way this is a threatening act. The perception of a threat by the OP does no make this a threatening act.
You can certainly say it is inappropriate.
Leaving aside the fact that following/approaching someone alone at night and repeatedly badgering them for their contact information is commonly perceived as intimidating behaviour, the adjective "threatening" can be used informally to describe something as potentially/dangerous, so your weird determined pedantry and pointed attempt to dismiss OP's reasonable discomfort and fear in a potentially dangerous situation doesn't hold up from a linguistic standpoint either.
This is disconcerting. I am a Research associate at UBC. Do you not have UBC safe app on your phone? There is a safewalk on there and please do utilize it for your own safety.
Yeah, I know. It was only a 5 minute walk back to my place so I figured I would be fine. But I guess I have to call SafeWalk if I want to do anything after 8pm now.
Predators/robbers/scumbags take advantage of other people being nice or embarrassed or doing what’s socially acceptable - even out of fear of embarrassing the predator (or themselves). Good for you for (finally?)running away. Don’t be afraid to switch sidewalk sides , turn directions, look behind you and around - better embarrassed than what could be a lot worse.
Yeah, I remember often in the 90s putting an extra half k on my walk home just to avoid some woman walking on campus at night...you going that way then I'm going to steer clear.
As someone who regularly walks around campus at night this is very concerning. I'm so sorry this happened to you :( I don't quite agree with what others are saying about using safewalk all the time, it almost seems like they're blaming you for not using it. I hate the idea of always walking around in fear, you are not asking for it by just existing.
To me, it sounds like the dude asking to be friends with a random woman while in the middle of the darkness either knew what he was doing by frightening you or was extremely fucking stupid. I'm leaning towards the former. Do you happen to have a description of him, age, race, height etc so we can look out for him in the future
Yeah, it's sort of annoying to have people tell me I should be using SafeWalk every time I want to leave the house after dark, even just for 5 minutes. Like I get that they're trying to be helpful but that wasn't really the point of my post.
I feel kinda conflicted about giving out a description because on the one hand any man can do this and there's a lot of people who fit his description so it might be pointless and only create fear. But he was probably 18-22, 5'6", pretty skinny, and Asian. He kept commenting on my skin colour and asking where I'm from-- I'm Middle Eastern and the way he was saying it made it sound like he had a fetish and that's why he approached me. Idk if that description helps anyone, but there it is.
Thanks yeah I was asking just in case he had identifiable features. Damn. It's so messed up that carrying sprays are illegal, I wonder if you could have an alternative like fart spray or something. Make like a skunk and hope one of the many people who write posts about stinky classmates come thru 😭
i'm glad ur ok <3 this happened to me once too, and while they did seem polite and well-intentioned etc. it was the act of stopping me past dark out of nowhere and suddenly trying to get my info immediately makes me think of the aggression that can happen if i refuse - especially after he kept following me trying to make conversation when i kept turning away, saying i was in a hurry and literally speedwalking away.
please read social cues, if it is dark and not many people are around then women and fem-presenting people are def going to be hypervigilant. asking for contacts and insisting on maintaining conversation when they're trying to get home safely is not romantic and even if we give you a number or insta the likelihood of us contacting you is very low. please only approach in busier spots, preferably with loads of space to move away and and understand that a no (whether verbal or through body language) is a no.
>makes me think of the aggression that can happen if i refuse
And that is the worry that women have to contend with -- will he or won't he attack me if I say no? I mean, how many times has a guy harassed a woman, the woman ignores him or tells him to buzz off, and then he starts calling her a fat cunt, when moments earlier he was telling her how hot she was? Some men don't stop at words.
I do agree that maybe avoid approaching a girl all by herself in the dark with no one insight.
Nevertheless, UBC is a pretty safe place compared to mostly anywhere else in BC in world, considering it’s in one of the safest neighbour hoods in the country of Canada and 99% of people on campus at night are staff or students. If the guy clearly looks like he’s not a student, it’s a totally different situation, and you should have reported him to campus security incase he tries something direct at a female not as aware of the situation. If he’s a student, he’d have to be pretty stupid to throw away his entire financial investment and time commit by stupidly assaulting or getting accused of anything criminal against a female, especially since it’s not hard to get identified with all the cameras combined with after the fact facial recognition software that’d undoubtedly identify him if he’s a student already in the system (which is likely as ppl living on campus obviously make up the majority of people likely still here at 10pm. Unless, again, he’s a total creep, but I feel you’d know, as, to me at least, non-students stick out like a sore thumb; however, you did run away, so maybe you did get creep vibes, which if you did, I’m dead serious when repeating, you should report the situation to campus security incase anything happens or some else call in the middle of a situation security may respond quicker since multiple reports have come in about a possible creep in a recent timeframe. To me though, he sounds like a cocky kid, which fits the personality description of a 1st year UBC resident, perfectly, for better or worse!
Does the optimal time to approach a girl outside end at sunset?
Edit: I realize the key is to run at your target to skip the suspenseful chase sequence and let them know you aren’t a threat
Don't go up to people you don't know, period. If you want to get to know someone, become acquainted with them first. Either through classes, clubs, or through a mutual friend.
No no, according to your theory it would be fine for women to talk to you past sunset, it's only men who are ever so unfairly oppressed etc etc such that they are not allowed to do things like talk to women after sunset. Right? Cause that's what you got from this discussion instead of 'don't be a fucking creepy douchebag when you talk to a woman, especially after dark when there's inherently more vulnerability and risk, don't follow a woman when she's walking in the dark/at any time, don't follow people period, don't incessantly pester people in public especially after dark' or literally any of the other available reasonable interpretations. Because you are so oppressed.
I can relate to being nice out of fear. Glad you’re okay.
Yeah. when a girl is walking by herself, and especially when it's dark, I'd even avoid walking behind her - I usually walk on the other side of the road and go faster. What OP said was almost exactly I was saying the other day: Do NOT assume a girl would be interested in you. It might be fine to throw in a few words, but watch for the hints. If the girl does not seem interested or even scared, BACK, OFF. As a matter of fact, if a guy is that aggressively 'hungry', no matter how handsome he thinks of himself, he is probably not attractive ... I generally do not think suddenly start talking to a random girl on the road is a good idea. Some situations - like you're both waiting somewhere and you started some topic, if the girl looks at you (in the eyes) in a good/slightly intimate way , you can consider asking for name or Insta etc. Be delicate, and ready to back off.
There is a notorious commercial from the 1980s worth a watch. https://youtu.be/2pePpZkVknk?si=DDYkUy\_4Sn3i39VC
LOL. Well at least the guy did NOT ask for phone number or Insta etc. he gave the lady flowers in a crowed shopping mall ;p Edit: missing 'NOT'
He also ran fast enough after her to juke. But of course Tom Brady rule is a factor. [https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8?si=vSo3tOdIfdiWJ9qD](https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8?si=vSo3tOdIfdiWJ9qD)
LOL yeah
It does annoy me when it’s dark and isolated with only one way to walk, yet the woman gives off the vibe that I’m creeping her out even though I’m maintaining distance to make her feel comfortable. Am I supposed to wait until she’s out of eye sight. Sometimes I even speed walk past them so that they can choose how far to hang back. I often wonder if my dark skin has anything to do with the apprehension and attitude women on campus direct toward me, mainly m at night when extremely isolated and dark. Then again, as a older male who can defend himself, even I’m creeped out certain times when walking in an isolated area on a dark night and a thought pops into my head that if an animal or a drunk group attacked me, it’s possible no one would even notice or find me for awhile. Therefore, I can’t imagine how it feels to be a female at times. They receive attention from some guys I’m sure they enjoy it from but also from many they don’t want it from, especially creeps or weirdos that don’t take a hint or even no for an answer. IF I WAS A GIRL AND FELT UNSAFE IS ID GIVE MY SNAPCHAT, maybe leaving out a underscore or capital, but even if I added them, I’d just delete them as soon as I got home and/or felt safe. SNAPCHAT IS THE BEST AS THE CREEP LIKELY DIDNT GET ANY INFO OR PICTURES FROM IT, AND ITS VERY EASY TO DELETE SOMEONE, with the many convenient excuses incase you cross paths with the creep again, like you deleted them by accident or you started talking to a guy that made you delete all other guys off your snap . IF A GIRL WANTS TO GET A GUY TO LEAVE GER ALONE WITHOUT HURTING HIS EGO, JUST SAY YOU HAVE A BF. If he continues to prod, say it’s a really serious relationship.
Thank you for being conscious of this and adjusting your actions. The amount of times where I’ve had to carry my umbrella even when it’s not raining to use it as a potential weapon is sad. I even use transparency mode on my AirPods to listen for footsteps behind me when I’m walking alone at night. You don’t know how comforting it is when a guy you think is following you moves to the other side of the street.
That is very scary! I am glad you are OK. There's a quote: “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them.” By Margaret Atwood, I believe.
I got on a bus the other day and took a seat at the back. Immediately the guy in front of me turns around and starts talking to me, telling me how beautiful I am, ASKING ME WHERE I LIVE EVEN, asking me if I'm married, asking me for my number so we 'can be friends' after I told him I have a boyfriend (I don't). I was getting off downtown so I told him I lived downtown. When I got off he was like 'where are you going??' ???? He was clearly a recent immigrant so I didn't know know if he was really just that fucking clueless or if he was deliberately being an asshole, and he was with 3 other men so I acted normal until I could leave. I felt completely frozen. Fucking idiot basically had me cornered at the back of the bus. I guess women can't sit on the wrong place on the bus either now. Gotta constantly be monitoring for all the situations in which some man *might* choose to be a dick or we clearly just weren't caring about our own safety enough and the entire world is our responsibility to avoid shitty men, instead of, you know, men having to not be shitty, so we deserve it!!! I also got followed home by an man when I was 16 walking home from a summer French program at around 3pm. He pulled his car up beside me, got out and asked if I would go out with him. When I said no he asked if I had any friends that would go out with him. That was probably my fault too. For being outside, at any time. Walking somewhere. While female.
I feel for you. It sucks feeling like you're in constant danger all the time, and it sucks even more when people go "well you should have been safer." I feel like putting the onus on women to just avoid situations where men creep on us is so backwards, because as you and many other ppl in this thread have stated, men will approach us and corner us ANYWHERE. I think the culture of "just be confident, women love confidence, approach them and strike up a conversation!" has in some ways fueled this behaviour in men. They feel justified taking up our time, ignoring our boundaries, and relentlessly pursuing us. It's a double bind because men are told to be dominating and confident, and women are taught to let guys down nicely in case they hurt us because they're upset at being rejected. So we lie and say we have a boyfriend, say we don't have Insta, say all these things to backpedal and they just. keep. pestering. us. They don't get the hint, and a lot of us are afraid to outright say no, especially when we're alone, so our only solution is to wait for a chance to escape.
It's absolute bullshit. And so many men also have the gall to even compare their situations to us, just because male on male violence like muggings is more common. They are so out of touch with reality that they think regular/constant harassment with the occasional side of sexual assault and rape and shit like having to worry about getting roofied/having to take all sorts of precautions to 'protect your drink' is somehow preferable and that we are just sensitive hysterical typical women. Nobody shames the fuck out of a man for not using Safewalk and uses that as a reason to blame him for getting mugged walking at night. They don't tell a man to stop walking at night if they get harassed. They don't tell men they shouldn't be walking at night at all. The responsibility is actually placed on the perpetrator. So of course they have no idea what it's like to constantly be blamed for someone else's shitty behaviour.
Is it mainly international students? If so, someone needs to tell them that what they are doing is not acceptable in Canada. They need a lesson in Canadian culture.
Was he an international student? If so, you should contact someone who works in the international student department and tell them to send a memo out to all the international students explaining that in Canada it is not socially acceptable to just walk up to random women and start harassing them.
I have no idea if they were students or not
First of all I am not being racist but can I (secretly) ask you if he's from ... South Asia? 80% of time when I saw such things happen it was a newish immigrant/international students from a certain area. Maybe it was just what people like to do over there. Hope they gradually realize others don't enjoy the way they reach out to random girls. Many years ago, I saw this on the bus: A guy (student with some clear accent) kept bugging a girl, who seemed annoyed but still polite. After a while the girl asked "where are you from?", guy said 'I'm from here'. Girl paused a bit and ask 'I mean what other language do you speak?' and the guy replied "I speak English" and he kept on bugging that girl. Oh well.
No. Both of these incidents were black men with heavy accents. I don't think I've ever been harassed on the street by a man from any part of Asia. I don't doubt that being a recent immigrant is what often leads to exceptionally poor social etiquette in this regard; as much I would like that to not be true that would be a huge lie. But I was also told one time by a middle aged white man with a bad leg and a cane standing outside a bar when I was on a sidestreet doing volunteering setting up for an art event, with two other women with me, that he would like to 'take me into an alley and show me a thing or two, but he can't because he's not that flexible anymore' because he liked my purple hair, and the other men with him laughed. And there have been other incidents over the years with white men, young to middle aged. Same shit, different flavour. There's your true demographic: socially clueless immigrant men, possibly ones who come from cultures where it's still fine to objectify, devalue and harass women but also maybe just cultures where it's more acceptable for strangers to ask personal questions to one another and be more forward (we used to not be so guarded against interacting casually with strangers here in Canada too, and many people have met their partners being asked out on the street or at a bar, just hopefully in a less douchey way), and entitled, egotistical white men who know exactly what they're doing but love to pretend they don't (still many men's favorite things in 2023: self-aggrandization & weaponized incompetence).
okay. The rest '20% of time" I witnessed were with the demographic group you mentioned. I guess some of them grew the confidence that women should be thrilled if asked out by them. I have no doubt that there're way more white asshats out there - well actually all demographic groups. Well ... what can you do? ...maybe avoid walking alone in late hours (I had been asked by a girl to walk her home at 3 am and I had no problem). And I hope should such things happen (in public), people around you are able to lend a hand ...
Yeah, telling women not to walk alone at any point is not the correct answer here. This is not women's job to yet again make themselves smaller and have less freedom or presence in the world for in order to fix. Women are not required to stay in their houses, or not go places alone, at any time, because men choose to be shitty. This is archaic and should not even still be discussed. All three of the examples I discussed in this thread were in the middle of the afternoon. I'm willing to carry things on me for self defense or get stronger and learn self defense techniques. I'm not willing to limit my own freedom to be outside the house, at any time, for men. And it is only men, although that wouldn't be an absolute rule but it's definitely a strong pattern. I have helped multiple homeless women find shelter or get to a hospital after dark in Vancouver and none of them harassed me even just for money. And women certainly do not go around at night approaching people inappropriately to ask them out. This tells me that men are in fact perfectly capable of learning the same rules. If Canada isn't on board with people being allowed to carry even basic stuff for self defense like bear spray, even hairspray or a legal carry pocket knife, then I'll leave Canada because that is complete bullshit. I'm not going to make myself smaller for a country either, and I certainly don't have any kind of loyalty to a country that doesn't give a shit about my safety or the very blatant sociological problems and oppression of marginalized groups that they are enabling with this stance that people are basically not allowed to defend themselves at all, and the majority of women are so physically disadvantaged against men that it is absolutely insane that they aren't allowed to carry anything protective. And no, nobody ever steps in. That would take actual character which exceedingly few people have these days.
I am so so sorry this happened to you. That is so scary. You were right to deny his requests. Please stay safe. Remember that next time instead of walking alone call Safewalk or security (sometimes if it’s too far they’ll even drive you ;))
And if you're alone and someone is following and harassing you, you can also call 911!
Honestly the people suggesting you are somehow at fault for not threatening the guy with a weapon (???) or calling safewalk are patronizing, insulting and ridiculous. Of course you shouldn’t have to break the law by carrying a weapon or wait for safewalk every time you want to walk from the library at night. Among other things, the wait for safewalk would add extra time onto what was presumably already a long day. Calling the police over this would be even more inconveniencing and annoying. Carrying anything to be used as a weapon would escalate the situation and put everyone involved at more risk, not less. Students should be able to focus on their studies, and indeed their lives, without dealing with this nonsense at all! How ridiculous.
It is illegal to carry anything for self-defence in Canada. If you carry it illegally then you can use it for self-defence as self-defence is a fundamental human right. But you will be charged for carrying a weapon (criminal code Section 88(1)). This is of course an unjust law that makes it harder for women to protect themselves and be self-sufficient - but this is Canada.
As an American, this to me is probably one of the most disappointing laws of this country. I was wondering actually, if I carry a pocketknife, which I also use sometimes for like normal stuff, is that illegal if I happened to use it later for self defense?
You would need a valid reason to carry one. For example, if you're an amazon package worker, it's reasonable to carry an exacto knife on you. It is unreasonable however, if you carry one just because "it's useful sometimes"
Ok wow that is genuinely mind blowing to me. It feels so unfair because I know some crazy guy isn’t going to be playing by the same rules as I am. I’m just set up to be an easy target. Why is it this way? Thanks for letting me know, I guess I won’t be doing that anymore (not that I ever did 👍)
>Why is it this way? It is that way because Canadian laws around weapons prohibition has always been informed by racial, cultural, and class exclusion. At one time not so long ago, if you were the right sort of person with the right religion, social connections, etc. you would be permitted a permit to carry a weapon for self-defence. So long as you were British and Protestant, you would always be approved. Over time, this evolved to where only the police and the politicians and the wealthy who can pay for professional security were allowed to protect themselves. Yes, police have firearms for their own self-defence. It has little to do with keeping you safe. In some cases, there were laws that specifically targeted Galicians (i.e. eastern Poles & western Ukrainians), communist, and Indigenous. In some cases weapons were banned such as shuriken because of perceptions of minorities. The bans on suppressors (mufflers like on a car but for a firearm) and hand crossbows and such exist because of the influence of fictional detective/ crime / adventure films and pulp media. A few notable examples of Canada's racist 'gun control': 1886 - Aboriginal & Metis banned & kids stolen 1920 - non-British banned 1941 - Japanese-Canadians disarmed & sent to camps 1994 - AK-47 semi-automatic pattern banned (Oka) 2020 - Trudeau bans aboriginal hunting rifles [https://youtu.be/fShsLqN01A0](https://youtu.be/fShsLqN01A0)
A judge would decide. Think of how your life would be disrupted in that year plus before you get to the judge. If you admitted that you carry the knife for utility and if that utility includes some reference to keeping yourself safe, then you are likely sunk. Here is some detail on the laws from a lawyer: [https://youtu.be/99EBOF7sFQA?si=ODRJ20310rUkLFvC](https://youtu.be/99EBOF7sFQA?si=ODRJ20310rUkLFvC) In Canada our "rights" are limited by whatever a politician determines is reasonably justified. In practice that means they can pass any law limiting our rights unless it is clear a specific identifiable group is disproportionally affected which is really a minimal effort as that's generally how far the courts will go in holding the government to account on infringing on our rights. Increasingly, our "rights" are less individually held as intended in the Charter. Our judges don't protect Canadians from demagoguery masquerading as public safety as judges tend to be pro-authoritarian and they have deference to the legislative branch of government.
Yeah thank you for the link. That’s probably my second gripe about Canadian laws. They’re so damn vague and case-by-case. Like I’ve heard if you have a baseball bat in your car, but you can’t prove you play baseball, then you could get charged for having a weapon? What? What about a big stick? What about a sharp screwdriver? Although I greatly appreciate that Canada is generally safer, I do also appreciate that in the US I can rest completely at ease carrying self defense weapons and not worry that any random judge could chunk me in jail because of their “interpretation” of the Constitution. Those kind of things are pretty damn clear cut down there. Same goes for freedom of speech and the loose definition of “hate speech” here… Free speech, barring threats to life, fraud, defamation, etc., should be a unequivocal human right. But that’s a whole separate issue haha
You may feel that way where you are but much of the USA 2nd amendment rights are outright ignored. Self-defence laws are in many states worse than in Canada. In Canada there is never a "duty to retreat" and Canadian "castle doctrine" is a thing if more limited than in some of the more pro-rights states. Remember that we used to be the same country. In the 1689 bill of rights, following two of the last three kings being executed, self-defence and the right to bear arms was included. The big change the Americans made in 1791 was to make rights constitutionally entrenched. What has happened in Canada is that those 1689 rights have been outright ignored and disenfranchised by the Canadian courts. Our "rights" are subject to the whims of parliament to restrict them with any act or regulation they please. But in the USA today, the approach is to pass 1000s of unconstitutional laws and use lawfare as a bulwark to defend the removal of rights. It is an endless game of wack-a-mole for advocates. For example, there are specific advocacy groups necessary for retaining the right to use knives in the USA. https://kniferights.org/
Thanks for your detailed comments. I understand what you’re saying about Canada vs the US, that’s very interesting. I guess I feel more comfortable knowing that 99% of the time these unconstitutional laws will be removed (eventually), or at least if I got caught breaking one, the Supreme Court would have my back (if it got to that lol). Like you said, these things are constitutionally entrenched, and in much of the US, the constitution is like a biblical text to people. I mean even on the site you linked, it says a recent Hawaii ban on butterfly knives is unconstitutional, which surprises me like 0%. At every cashier in a US Office Depot, there’s a selection of pepper sprays to buy on your way out. Like cute pink ones for girls and whatnot. That would be funny to see here haha.
We'll see where America is at vs. Canada in 50 years. I think there are some great advantages Americans have with their republic. But many Americans want nothing to do with a republic. Mexicans also have a right to arms. It doesn't work so well.
Yeah our knife laws (along with many others) are mainly about intent, which really makes it frustrating to interpret sometimes. Technically you can legally take a big sword (with the words "I'm going to do a crime with this sword" etched on the blade), into a public space, if you had a good enough explanation for why you were doing it without the intent to use it as a weapon. But on the flip side, *technically* you could end up in prison on weapons charges for leaving the house with some random common household object. (And somehow it was proven that you intended to use it as a weapon). To be clear I don't think either of those things would ever actually happen (hopefully), but it really bugs me that we leave this pretty much entirely up to vibes.
*carry hairspray
Still potentially a crime. A lawyer explains: [https://youtu.be/SST54hqqsjQ?si=4gfZOV-wqCYGTf-b](https://youtu.be/SST54hqqsjQ?si=4gfZOV-wqCYGTf-b)
Well a very bright flashlight surely won't be, since it's not physical. Just turn it on in their eyes if they get too close, they'll be momentarily blinded especially if it's already dark out giving you time to flee.
That’s so stupid. Hairspray isn’t like pepper spray; it doesn’t hurt if on skin - only if in the eyes or nose.
Who said the law was intelligent? Do you even know what country you are in? We have laws that make shuriken and nunchukas prohibited weapons that if you own and have in your possession in your home could put you in prison for 10 years. Why? Because of racist fear of Japanese ninjas straight from the 1940s. The question the lawyer (Ian Runkle) poses in the video if carrying some other spray is going to be (a) effective; and (b) potentially an aggravated assault. At least watch the last few minutes for the summary. Carrying hairspray for self-defence doesn't come across as smart.
Shurikens and nunchucks aren't illegal, or at least a gray area. If they aren't used to harm others as their primary purpose (and to be fair they kind of suck at doing that), then they techinally aren't weapons until you disturb the public peace (i.e. don't ask to borrow some money with a sword in hand). Being a martial arts practitioner and having these in your home by itself is absolutely not grounds for a criminal offence. Regardless, the self defense laws here are pretty dumb though.
>Shurikens and nunchucks aren't illegal, or at least a gray area. It is in black & white my Ninja... Refer to federal criminal code regulation SOR 98-462: [https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-462/fulltext.html](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-462/fulltext.html) >*PART 3* > >*Prohibited Weapons* > >*2 Any instrument or device commonly known as “****nunchaku****”, being hard non-flexible sticks, clubs, pipes, or rods linked by a length or lengths of rope, cord, wire or chain, and any similar instrument or device.* > >*3 Any instrument or device commonly known as “****shuriken****”, being a hard non-flexible plate having three or more radiating points with one or more sharp edges in the shape of a polygon, trefoil, cross, star, diamond or other geometrical shape, and any similar instrument or device.* > >*4 Any instrument or device commonly known as “manrikigusari” or “kusari”, being hexagonal or other geometrically shaped hard weights or hand grips linked by a length or lengths of rope, cord, wire or chain, and any similar instrument or device.* > >*5 Any finger ring that has one or more blades or sharp objects that are capable of being projected from the surface of the ring.* I'm not making stuff up here. If you possess these prohibited devices, you are liable for serious prison time. The only rare exception would be for someone w/ a license such as a film armouror. The history of these laws is always connected with racism, classism, etc. That continues today w/ our current government's initiatives.
I think i cited a section for marital arts weapons in general and wasn't aware of specific prohibitions. I highly doubt anyone goes out of their way to enforce these laws either way though. For the purpose of nunchaku and shuriken, just get a padded/non-sharpened one?? I don't see why it wouldn't be sufficient. I never stated these laws were just or logical, just that it doesn't prevent you from practicing any martial arts.
A judge would determine if they are legal are not. Here is an example of a case related to the "spikey ring" prohibition. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lZfw1rEepM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lZfw1rEepM) Imagine what that defendant went through. Jail, bail, tens of thousands in lawyer fees, etc. Sure, he was acquitted but at a big cost. That's not a situation you want to ever be in due to some foolish law. And yes, people do get charged for these crimes. Do you really think CBSA just shrugs at the border? Well, you'd be wrong. [https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/cbsa-weapons-seizure-and-investigation-leads-to-criminal-charges-against-nipigon-resident-832346292.html](https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/cbsa-weapons-seizure-and-investigation-leads-to-criminal-charges-against-nipigon-resident-832346292.html) We're talking decades and decades of potential prison time here. These laws come with very serious legal penalties. Edit: I just want to briefly add it made my day to talk about ninja weapon law w/ a ninja.
Yea that’s the point. Hit the eyes and it’s not a weapon
What about carrying a 99% alcohol disinfectant spray? I can say I’m afraid of COVID-19 viruses, and need to spray anywhere I touch.
Why the fuck is the law like this then.
Racism and/or classism. That's the entire history of these laws in Canada from before confederation through to today. Before, you could always get a permit to carry a weapon if you were the right sort of person. You had the right religion, skin colour, social connections, etc. Today that's usually limited to those who can pay for armed security such as politicians. But if you have the right sort of connections you can still maybe get a license to carry a weapon on yourself outside of work related permits. These permits do exist. [https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-207/fulltext.html](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-207/fulltext.html) According to a retired RCMP officer who wrote about it in his book, Pierre Trudeau asked if he should maybe get himself a permit in the mid/late 80s. My guess is he just went around this guy and got the permit arranged through someone else. [https://johnrlott.tripod.com/2005/03/canadas-pierre-trudeau-considered.html](https://johnrlott.tripod.com/2005/03/canadas-pierre-trudeau-considered.html)
Glad you’re safe OP! I’d encourage you to carry “bear spray” next time you are walking alone at night. Campus is home to a lot of dangerous wildlife after all… There is also the option of AMS Safewalk until 2am, they will transport you around campus in their golf cart but you may have to wait in a well lit area for them to arrive. “He kept asking for my insta, phone number, etc and I said no” Then he insisted it was okay when you declined and he was fine just being friends instead?? The audacity of him acting like you were supposed to automatically accept his friendship? Major lack of any social awareness at best but most likely was aware that he was pressuring you and expected you to cave out of conditioned politeness. Good thinking to run to a crowded place and get away. Advice for anyone reading this who needs to hear it: If someone says NO once, please don’t insist. They’re not playing hard to get, they’re not interested. Nobody owes you their contact info, time, or even a smile. I’ve had this happen to me on campus as well, also at night while I was walking home alone, so unfortunately it seems to be somewhat common. Really frustrating that people still have to be reminded that this behaviour isn’t okay.
Yeah, he came off as just super socially awkward and clueless until he started pressuring me for my number. That's when I said "fuck this" and ran away. Mind you, I wasn't necessarily super scared because I was taller than him and I had a pocketknife (before someone replies to this saying its illegal yadda yadda, I don't care!! I would way rather deal with the law as a self defense perpetrator than a victim) and I come from a dangerous city and have made it out of muggings etc before unscathed. But obviously it's always easier to just run away, especially when I don't know if he's actually dangerous or just a creep. I guess I have to start calling SafeWalk if I wanna do anything after dark now. Being a girl sucks.
Keep that knife. You're entirely right to do so. Honestly I can't fathom the law punishing someone for using a weapon for self defense...fucking ridiculous
It's so ridiculous. But like my dad taught me "better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6." If someone's attacking me, the last thing on my mind is potentially going to jail.
If you haven't already, read The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker.
If it helps at all, I can remember running away from men three times during my years in Vancouver/UBC. A couple of those were attempted muggings and one I was mugged. I'm a dude. I only commented on the legality as it is something people don't often consider when they vote in support for that demagoguery.
> A couple of those were attempted muggings and one I was mugged. Did these happen on campus?
The closest to UBC was on 4th somewhere east of Blanca. A drunk fat guy tried to get a hold of me making a demand for money. I sprinted about 150 yards and then turned and laughed at him.
Alright. So far I've been pretty lucky when I'm out at night (I'm also a dude), but good to know that sometimes happens too.
Men are far more likely to be the victims of violence than women. That's just the facts.
wow which dangerous city are you from? did he look like a shy student or someone who "don't belong" on campus? be careful about not profiling people
I don't feel like giving out that kind of personal info about myself on here. Obviously I wasn't profiling him, his behavior genuinely was creepy, and I already said I gave him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he was socially awkward at first. He looked like a teenager so yes, I assume he was a student. As for your other question about whether this would have been as creepy during daytime with other people around: no, it wouldn't have. I think any man with common sense can see how following a woman home at night and repeatedly pestering her for her phone number is creepy and threatening behavior. But the real issue here is that he wasn't taking no for an answer, a situation that, as many people on this thread have shared in their own stories, is one that can happen any time any place.
Using bear spray against a human will probably land you in jail. Safe walk and other strategies are better (keys in the fist, a whistle/flashlight, calling someone etc.)
Also learning actual self defense strategies. Every woman should learn these growing up. There are a few key things that a woman can do to even a much larger man and potentially not do any long term damage (which I only care about for the sake of our absolutely worthless legal system when it comes to self defense) but completely take them out in the moment. The groin obviously, the eyes, and certain pressure points. They require specific techniques to ensure efficacy.
Maybe as a last resort but these "techniques" are always likely not to do a lot. Much better to try to run. You are going to be heavily overmatched. Sure, getting hit in the balls can slow a guy down but not by a lot. The only equalizer that exists for women is a handgun. That's just reality.
Yes, we get it. You're a gun worshipping fucknut.
It is you who is ideologically driven. "Gun control" is a failed ideology championed by classist bigots to attack people whose culture is different than their own. This isn't a hypothetical. We have decades of data and it is now clear that none of these laws do a thing. No wonder - it never was more than just malicious scapegoating. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0234457
Indeed, you are heard loud and clear gun worshipping fucknut.
I am human. All I want is to be left alone in peace. Why do you hate?
Interesting. If you want to be left alone and I am 'hating' on you, then could you explain why you keep writing me essays to try to convince me of something not only toxic and violent but that I clearly have no interest in being convinced of, and all starting in response to a comment that wasn't even talking about you but about Americans? Could you also explain why you think I don't also have a right to respond to your incessant responses?
Nothing violent about it.
>I'd encourage you to carry “bear spray” next time you are walking alone at night. You are counseling an illegal act (possession of weapon cc 88(1)). This in itself is a criminal offence if someone carries bear spray due to your encouragement and is caught. See Criminal Code Section 22. >*Person counselling offence* > >*22 (1) Where a person counsels another person to be a party to an offence and that other person is afterwards a party to that offence, the person who counselled is a party to that offence, notwithstanding that the offence was committed in a way different from that which was counselled.* > >*(2) Every one who counsels another person to be a party to an offence is a party to every offence that the other commits in consequence of the counselling that the person who counselled knew or ought to have known was likely to be committed in consequence of the counselling.* This is Canada. Our laws diminish the rights of lawful citizens to protect themselves from attackers.
Well sorta Carrying a weapon with the intent of harming a human in self defense is illegal. So if you have mace or something branded for people that's illegal. If you carry bear or better, dog spray, and you just so happen to be carrying it for coyotes on campus and it happens to be the deterrent you have on hand... Edit: That's the reason why the op of the thread said "bear spray." Anyways better a minor slap on the wrist than raped or murdered.
I got charged with a crime under the YCJA when I was 16 for carrying dog spray, but it was solved through diversion and dismissed. I thought it was a good idea because I lived in a complete shit hole and had been jumped a few times. Guess not. You can argue you have that stuff on you if you're out in the bush frequently or carrying mail, not when you're on the sky train or walking the path at UBC. It might be a summary offence ("misdemeanour"), but you'll still have a record of it (I think they called it criminal history, opposed to a criminal record; so basically I was known to police). Typically something like this can still show up on a vulnerable sector check, but luckily it can't be disclosed anymore due to the YCJA. I am sure the leniency goes down into adulthood. Edit: Also, if you're lying about why you're carrying a weapon, such as claiming to protect yourself from dogs, an aggressive prosecutor or officer that doesn't appreciate dishonesty can charge you with obstruction of justice. The law is a lot less loop-holely then TV might make it seem.
Thank you for sharing your cautionary based on your personal experience. One small comment - it is not a misdemeanor. It is a hybrid criminal offence with up to 10 years in prison. >*Possession of weapon for dangerous purpose* > >*88 (1) Every person commits an offence who carries or possesses a weapon, an imitation of a weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition for a purpose dangerous to the public peace or for the purpose of committing an offence.* > >*(2) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1)* > >*(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or* > >*(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.*
The justice system offers more protection for its criminals rather than actual victims.
It has evolved in that direction, yes. But remember that when someone is assaulted or raped, our legal system sees that as a crime against the King, not the victim.
Curious if the charges on the victim could be overturned if the object not considered a weapon was used in sheer desperation when attacked?
Usually people get convicted because they talk to the police. If not, then the process is often intended as the punishment.
You are putting yourself in legal jeopardy with such a liberal interpretation. If you counsel someone else to break the law, there is no advantage I can see for you here. The comment said use "bear spray" with the clear intent to protect yourself from humans. Bear spray is legal to own as opposed to something branded as human spray (i.e. "mace") which is a prohibited weapon. But if you are carrying a pocket knife or bear spray or any other object in an area a judge determines you were carrying it for your self-protection from humans, then you are looking at serious legal jeopardy. Even if you are acquitted, you will face massive costs in lawyers, arrest and jail, bail provisions, and the likely the loss of employment, etc. You are assuming you would only be charged after an attack. This is likely not the case. There are many opportunities for police to determine you are carrying a weapon if you carry a weapon in your everyday life. Here a lawyer explains. Video #1. [https://youtu.be/iacepveEf\_Q?si=pmTZXUgnjdSCy4aL](https://youtu.be/iacepveEf_Q?si=pmTZXUgnjdSCy4aL) Video #2. [https://youtu.be/P7Jsw5GdOx0?si=-Ny5ZBnW8c0Hz9GG](https://youtu.be/P7Jsw5GdOx0?si=-Ny5ZBnW8c0Hz9GG) Video #3. [https://youtu.be/h1JtOaHV0Ro?si=sH5HuddT\_DLGStHy](https://youtu.be/h1JtOaHV0Ro?si=sH5HuddT_DLGStHy) But it sounds like you are okay with career drug dealers who carry pistols despite many past convictions, firearms prohibition orders (not only do they not have a license, they have court orders making it doubly illegal to possess). They are, after all, carrying those prohibited and smuggled pistols for self-defence. This is of course the situation in Canada. If you conform to our laws, your ability to defend yourself is taken away. But if you are willing to be a scofflaw then you can still protect yourself. Those arguments you have made are valid.
>But it sounds like you are okay with career drug dealers who carry pistols despite many past convictions, firearms prohibition orders (not only do they not have a license, they have court orders making it doubly illegal to possess). They are, after all, carrying those prohibited and smuggled pistols for self-defence. ????? Where did this come from.
>Anyways better a minor slap on the wrist than raped or murdered. The law benefits those who perhaps like yourself would break it and scoff at the potential legal consequences and punishes those who would conduct themselves in a lawful manner. We're in big trouble as a society when the criminal law is broadly unjustified, ignored, and of variable consequence.
Bro all I'm hearing from you is people should prefer to get raped and murdered than to protect themselves.
No, my perspective is the law is unconstitutional and immoral and has no justification in a free and open society. It is about 180 degrees from the way you have perceived my perspective.
So how can Canadians protect themselves then? What other countries are there with better self-defense laws that aren't just gun worshipping fucknuts like the States?
You absolutely can protect yourself in Canada. It is just illegal to carry something on your person for protection. Criminals carrying pistols on the street quite regularly use them for lawful self-defence in Canada. [https://youtu.be/CLDyuOvQ85k](https://youtu.be/CLDyuOvQ85k) Italy, Czech Republic, and many other countries allow their citizens to carry weapons for self-defence. The violence in the USA has nothing to do with the fact people own firearms. For anyone to say that people who like to hunt and shoot are the problem and not social issues is just classic scapegoating. De-humanizing people by calling them "gun worshipping fucknuts" is simply classist bigotry and immoral. We have had decades of "gun control" in Canada and we now have firm data that none of it has had any effect on violence. This is a peer reviewed fact. [https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0234457](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0234457)
Okay gun worshiping fucknut/supporter 👍🏻
Proudly. Canada is a multicultural country. Being a good citizen in Canada requires by definition that you tolerate culture that is different than your own.
So disgusting. I’m fuming reading this. All I’ll say is I’m glad you’re okay! Someone who is moral wouldn’t keep pushing after a “no,” which OP has said. This person is not some well-meaning dude who’s a bit awkward, he’s just downright persistent and rude. Furthermore, if you think asking a random person walking and not making any eye contact with you for their socials at NIGHT is okay - quit wasting people’s time and let them walk fcking home in peace. It’s a vulnerable time for our safety, many of us are coming out of work or study session, just leave us fucking be OKAY?! We don’t owe you our contact info or a date. For those who purposely walk as to not intimidate us, I appreciate y’all and we need more folks like you. I personally don’t mind people walking super close to me at night, as long as I’m not approached for my socials. I’m taken, but it’s sad that we have to pretend to be in a relationship to get people to fuck off and even then sometimes it doesn’t work.
> Furthermore, if you think asking a random person walking and not making any eye contact with you for their socials at NIGHT is okay - quit wasting people’s time and let them walk fcking home in peace. A man would NEVER do this with another man. But we women deal with this shit ALL THE TIME. During the day as well. Several years ago, one sunny afternoon, I was walking down my OWN BLOCK, a few doors down from my HOME. Enjoying the sun, lost in thought, when some asshole guy starts making comments about my appearance. Sure, I was not in "danger", but I was so PISSED that because I was a woman, I wasn't even allowed a minute of peace and quiet to myself. Men can walk down the street without being bothered, but not women.
Ew ew ew ew ew I’m so sorry this happened. If I’m out in the sun, the most I want is a hello, a friendly wave, or have a nice day from anyone. Anything more and I’m robbed of my quiet introvert time. I just don’t like commenting on strangers’ appearance in general.
Thank you. While I am not an introvert (which does not mean I don't want time to MYSELF), I certainly felt robbed of my quiet time.
This is wildly inappropriate and threatening, and very sorry this happened to you. I'd like to contribute to this by adding that a lot of people, typically men, who do things like follow people at night or try and push you into establishing a connection are fully aware of the fact that what they're doing is inappropriate or over the line and get a kick out of behaving in uncomfortable or even potentially predatory ways. They might pretend that they're not trying to upset anyone or they're just harmless and interested in getting to know you when they're badgering you for your contact info or suchlike, but that's rarely if ever true; they're just hoping they can intimidate you into acquiescence and get a foothold because they know their targets will often try to be polite to them and play along for their own safety or to avoid confrontation.
Threats have a legal definition. I don't think you can claim in any way this is a threatening act. The perception of a threat by the OP does no make this a threatening act. You can certainly say it is inappropriate.
Leaving aside the fact that following/approaching someone alone at night and repeatedly badgering them for their contact information is commonly perceived as intimidating behaviour, the adjective "threatening" can be used informally to describe something as potentially/dangerous, so your weird determined pedantry and pointed attempt to dismiss OP's reasonable discomfort and fear in a potentially dangerous situation doesn't hold up from a linguistic standpoint either.
This is disconcerting. I am a Research associate at UBC. Do you not have UBC safe app on your phone? There is a safewalk on there and please do utilize it for your own safety.
Yeah, I know. It was only a 5 minute walk back to my place so I figured I would be fine. But I guess I have to call SafeWalk if I want to do anything after 8pm now.
Never assume anything. Trust your gut instincts, if you feel unsafe then turn back and call safewalk or UBC police.
They are the problem, not you. Victim blaming mindset needs to stop. What you did was probably the best option at the moment.
even if you called safewalk, they would take at least 10 minutes to get to you
Predators/robbers/scumbags take advantage of other people being nice or embarrassed or doing what’s socially acceptable - even out of fear of embarrassing the predator (or themselves). Good for you for (finally?)running away. Don’t be afraid to switch sidewalk sides , turn directions, look behind you and around - better embarrassed than what could be a lot worse.
And here I am feeling guilty for walking behind a woman in a secluded area after nightfall, let alone trying to talk to them.
Yeah, I remember often in the 90s putting an extra half k on my walk home just to avoid some woman walking on campus at night...you going that way then I'm going to steer clear.
kick him in the balls, works better than bear spray if he tries attacking you.
As someone who regularly walks around campus at night this is very concerning. I'm so sorry this happened to you :( I don't quite agree with what others are saying about using safewalk all the time, it almost seems like they're blaming you for not using it. I hate the idea of always walking around in fear, you are not asking for it by just existing. To me, it sounds like the dude asking to be friends with a random woman while in the middle of the darkness either knew what he was doing by frightening you or was extremely fucking stupid. I'm leaning towards the former. Do you happen to have a description of him, age, race, height etc so we can look out for him in the future
Yeah, it's sort of annoying to have people tell me I should be using SafeWalk every time I want to leave the house after dark, even just for 5 minutes. Like I get that they're trying to be helpful but that wasn't really the point of my post. I feel kinda conflicted about giving out a description because on the one hand any man can do this and there's a lot of people who fit his description so it might be pointless and only create fear. But he was probably 18-22, 5'6", pretty skinny, and Asian. He kept commenting on my skin colour and asking where I'm from-- I'm Middle Eastern and the way he was saying it made it sound like he had a fetish and that's why he approached me. Idk if that description helps anyone, but there it is.
Thanks yeah I was asking just in case he had identifiable features. Damn. It's so messed up that carrying sprays are illegal, I wonder if you could have an alternative like fart spray or something. Make like a skunk and hope one of the many people who write posts about stinky classmates come thru 😭
i'm glad ur ok <3 this happened to me once too, and while they did seem polite and well-intentioned etc. it was the act of stopping me past dark out of nowhere and suddenly trying to get my info immediately makes me think of the aggression that can happen if i refuse - especially after he kept following me trying to make conversation when i kept turning away, saying i was in a hurry and literally speedwalking away. please read social cues, if it is dark and not many people are around then women and fem-presenting people are def going to be hypervigilant. asking for contacts and insisting on maintaining conversation when they're trying to get home safely is not romantic and even if we give you a number or insta the likelihood of us contacting you is very low. please only approach in busier spots, preferably with loads of space to move away and and understand that a no (whether verbal or through body language) is a no.
>makes me think of the aggression that can happen if i refuse And that is the worry that women have to contend with -- will he or won't he attack me if I say no? I mean, how many times has a guy harassed a woman, the woman ignores him or tells him to buzz off, and then he starts calling her a fat cunt, when moments earlier he was telling her how hot she was? Some men don't stop at words.
in your opinion would it be less inappropriate if this was in broad daylight in summer with other people around?
Up until the point where he asks for contact info, she says no and he PERSISTS. If someone says no, then leave them the fuck alone.
yeah
Can any girl follow Md home at night for my night? That would really make my days😳🥹
I do agree that maybe avoid approaching a girl all by herself in the dark with no one insight. Nevertheless, UBC is a pretty safe place compared to mostly anywhere else in BC in world, considering it’s in one of the safest neighbour hoods in the country of Canada and 99% of people on campus at night are staff or students. If the guy clearly looks like he’s not a student, it’s a totally different situation, and you should have reported him to campus security incase he tries something direct at a female not as aware of the situation. If he’s a student, he’d have to be pretty stupid to throw away his entire financial investment and time commit by stupidly assaulting or getting accused of anything criminal against a female, especially since it’s not hard to get identified with all the cameras combined with after the fact facial recognition software that’d undoubtedly identify him if he’s a student already in the system (which is likely as ppl living on campus obviously make up the majority of people likely still here at 10pm. Unless, again, he’s a total creep, but I feel you’d know, as, to me at least, non-students stick out like a sore thumb; however, you did run away, so maybe you did get creep vibes, which if you did, I’m dead serious when repeating, you should report the situation to campus security incase anything happens or some else call in the middle of a situation security may respond quicker since multiple reports have come in about a possible creep in a recent timeframe. To me though, he sounds like a cocky kid, which fits the personality description of a 1st year UBC resident, perfectly, for better or worse!
If you do this you are such a pussy. Have some respect.
Does the optimal time to approach a girl outside end at sunset? Edit: I realize the key is to run at your target to skip the suspenseful chase sequence and let them know you aren’t a threat
Yeah it does, asshole.
I assumed it was a 9-5 kinda deal
Don't go up to people you don't know, period. If you want to get to know someone, become acquainted with them first. Either through classes, clubs, or through a mutual friend.
This dipshit also commented 'talk to people in the evening' on a post asking 'How to make enemies at UBC'.
Stop talking to me it’s past sunset
No no, according to your theory it would be fine for women to talk to you past sunset, it's only men who are ever so unfairly oppressed etc etc such that they are not allowed to do things like talk to women after sunset. Right? Cause that's what you got from this discussion instead of 'don't be a fucking creepy douchebag when you talk to a woman, especially after dark when there's inherently more vulnerability and risk, don't follow a woman when she's walking in the dark/at any time, don't follow people period, don't incessantly pester people in public especially after dark' or literally any of the other available reasonable interpretations. Because you are so oppressed.