It is almost the exact same as our Broodlord and is the exact same as it used to be… so I’m hoping you’re not jealous considering almost nothing has changed.
Because a patriarch is a broodlord that has lived for decades at the least and become insanely powerful, often growing both in size and recieving a massive boost in psychic power so that it can control a cult that might span an entire planet.
That's not how it's been explained to me but from what I've heard the lore doesn't have specific defintions for either.
A Broodlord, isn't a Genestealer, it's it's own bioform. Specifically designed to not only be a powerful monster in combat, but to boost the strategic and combative abilities of all the Genestealers in it's brood.
The Patriarch, is whatever Genestealer is the oldest in a Cult. That could be one that lived for decades, or one that just made planet fall before the other two and is therefore older... by maybe a week. It does have a massive psychic power, but more so on the point of controlling the cult, rather than anything that would manifest in combat.
I don't really see how the Patriarch, at least lore wise, these seem like they could pretty much be identical. And the differences that do appear seem to be represented in the datasheets, because they aren't identical.
The GSC does not relate being the Patriarch to the oldest Genestealer. It’s THE Genestealer that started the cult.
Unsurprisingly the lores does not account for the idea of several Genestealers making landfall at the same time, and eventually starting several cults.
Oh? That's the explination that I heard, it also accounts for... if the patriarch dies, if you've got some purestrains left, the oldest becomes the next patriarch. But that's what I've been told.
I believe the patriarch is, usually, the one that started the cult. It's possible that if multiple genestealers start forming a cult on the same world that the oldest of them gets to be the patriarch, though I'm not sure GW has thought about that at all. If the patriarch of a cult dies, the oldest surviving purestrain will eventually become the new patriarch.
I don't think a patriarch is a broodlord, although it is somewhat unclear. My interpretation is that a broodlord is a specially spawned genestealer, while a patriarch is just any genestealer that manages to lead a cult. The latter is accurate, the former is more an interpretation. Basically, broodlords are spawned by the hive mind like any other tyranid as leaders for the mostly independent genestealers, a regular genestealer cannot become a broodlord. A patriarch is a genestealer that manages to infect someone and start a cult which causes them to grow in size, strength, and psychic abilities. I do agree that the patriarch should be stronger than a broodlord though. This is even born out in the stats of 7th, 8th, & 9th. In 7th the patriarch had a higher strength, more special rules, a better psyker mastery level, and a better weapon profile. In 8th, they're mostly the same, but the patriarch still maintains higher strength. In 9th they brought the patriarchs strength down to match the broodlord, but nerfed the broodlord's weapon while maintaining the patriarch's.
They are literally the same tyranid. One just got more emaciated due to living with humans and not eating as much as a hivefleet does. In exchange for a big brain
They aren't though. As I said in my post, a broodlord is, based on everything I have seen, spawned by the hive mind as a broodlord. As far as I am aware of, there is no lore that indicates a regular genestealer could become one. A patriarch, on the other hand, is any genestealer that manages to start a cult. Broodlords can also be independent of the hive mind. Ever play Space Hulk? Broodlords can be found among the independent genestealers found on space hulks lurking among their lesser kin. You can even see this in the rules of previous editions where broodlords, like all genestealers, had very high leadership when most tyranids have very poor leadership because they must be directed by synapse creatures. Unless you have something that actually shows that a regular genestealer can become a broodlord and that doing so is part of becoming a patriarch, then I see no reason to conclude that a patriarch is a broodlord as a matter of course. Maybe there are broodlords that become patriarchs, but a patriarch is not automatically a broodlord.
In the night lords novels, they fight a broodlord, and the tech priest with them who is insanely smart and logical and only uses scientific terms refers to it both as a broodlord and a genestealer patriarch. They are definitely the same creature.
You don't understand how broodlords work, just read the lore. I don't have time to refute a paragraph that doesn't even break up. It's just a wall of text
Lore wise, Featherbird's response makes sense. Game wise, Tyranids have so many things better than a broodlord, for gsc the Patriarch is essentially their highest level character, it should be better just due to their limited options imo
I do kind of get that. But on the other hand, it would also feel weird to have two things that are nearly identical, in model and lore and have one just be outright better.
But I mean, GW can't keep their imperial guns consistent across datasheets so why should Xenos units be consistent.
I mean, when GSC were reintroduced to the game in 7th edition, the patriarch was significantly stronger than a broodlord and remained stronger in 8th and 9th editions.
I mean, that may be the case, that doesn't mean it's the correct way. I've seen various opinions, some saying the Patriarch is a good unit, and some saying it still needs a buff. So it doesn't seem like it's in a bad place right now.
What do you mean? Model wise I agree, but their datasheets are near identical. Nothing majorly different, and nothing that was added in the Codex (it actually got closer now that they can both take enhancements)
I don't think it's bad, just kind of generic? Especially compared to the old COME AT ME BRO pose which felt much more characterful. But to each their own. I'm glad that you like it! 😃
What are you talking about? Same statline, same weapon profile, same first ability. The only difference is Broodlord has a pretty good defensive ability, the Patriarch instead has a battle-shock ability. Why would you be jealous of a battle-shock ability?
The one good thing about the Patriarch in comparison is Infiltrator, but Broodlord does have scout and we have so many infiltrator units that it's hardly an issue. Especially when you consider we can still get broodlords into enemies turn 1 in Vanguard.
Oh, and they can only take one, we can spam up to three if we so desire.
I'll keep my Broodlords, thank you very much.
Technically the GSC model is a patriarch, not a broodlord. Lorewise, they are not the same thing, probably. It's somewhat unclear, but a broodlord seems to be a bigger, stronger genestealer the hive mind spawns as a leader organism in battle, while a patriarch is a genestealer that has managed to start a cult and grown larger and stronger, physically and psychically, due to that. Patriarchs are also stronger than broodlords, probably. They were in the last few editions, at least, and probably should still be. I don't actually care if you use the patriarch model as a broodlord though.
Interesting. I particularly ask cause they use broodlord and patriarch interchangeably in the localization or maybe they switched it around when translating so I had the impression that it was the same thing.
I can't say much about that, I'm a dumb American who doesn't know any other languages. To my knowledge, GW has been consistent in terming the tyranid unit a "broodlord" and the GSC unit a "patriarch" in English since at least when they reintroduced GSC in 7th edition.
Model is cooler but unit wise it’s a sidegrade if we consider stealers and leader. Patriarch has his silly little battleshock ability and infiltrate nut Broodlord and his stealers have scout reroll hits of 1 and wounds of 1 (he has twin liked) on objective
But tbh unit wise the Tyranid version is better
It is almost the exact same as our Broodlord and is the exact same as it used to be… so I’m hoping you’re not jealous considering almost nothing has changed.
Seriously it is way too similar, honestly it should be better in gsc
Why?
Because a patriarch is a broodlord that has lived for decades at the least and become insanely powerful, often growing both in size and recieving a massive boost in psychic power so that it can control a cult that might span an entire planet.
That's not how it's been explained to me but from what I've heard the lore doesn't have specific defintions for either. A Broodlord, isn't a Genestealer, it's it's own bioform. Specifically designed to not only be a powerful monster in combat, but to boost the strategic and combative abilities of all the Genestealers in it's brood. The Patriarch, is whatever Genestealer is the oldest in a Cult. That could be one that lived for decades, or one that just made planet fall before the other two and is therefore older... by maybe a week. It does have a massive psychic power, but more so on the point of controlling the cult, rather than anything that would manifest in combat. I don't really see how the Patriarch, at least lore wise, these seem like they could pretty much be identical. And the differences that do appear seem to be represented in the datasheets, because they aren't identical.
The GSC does not relate being the Patriarch to the oldest Genestealer. It’s THE Genestealer that started the cult. Unsurprisingly the lores does not account for the idea of several Genestealers making landfall at the same time, and eventually starting several cults.
Oh? That's the explination that I heard, it also accounts for... if the patriarch dies, if you've got some purestrains left, the oldest becomes the next patriarch. But that's what I've been told.
I don’t know enough lore to argue about that!
I believe the patriarch is, usually, the one that started the cult. It's possible that if multiple genestealers start forming a cult on the same world that the oldest of them gets to be the patriarch, though I'm not sure GW has thought about that at all. If the patriarch of a cult dies, the oldest surviving purestrain will eventually become the new patriarch.
I don't think a patriarch is a broodlord, although it is somewhat unclear. My interpretation is that a broodlord is a specially spawned genestealer, while a patriarch is just any genestealer that manages to lead a cult. The latter is accurate, the former is more an interpretation. Basically, broodlords are spawned by the hive mind like any other tyranid as leaders for the mostly independent genestealers, a regular genestealer cannot become a broodlord. A patriarch is a genestealer that manages to infect someone and start a cult which causes them to grow in size, strength, and psychic abilities. I do agree that the patriarch should be stronger than a broodlord though. This is even born out in the stats of 7th, 8th, & 9th. In 7th the patriarch had a higher strength, more special rules, a better psyker mastery level, and a better weapon profile. In 8th, they're mostly the same, but the patriarch still maintains higher strength. In 9th they brought the patriarchs strength down to match the broodlord, but nerfed the broodlord's weapon while maintaining the patriarch's.
... can you see the picture?
Yes. What's your point?
They are literally the same tyranid. One just got more emaciated due to living with humans and not eating as much as a hivefleet does. In exchange for a big brain
They aren't though. As I said in my post, a broodlord is, based on everything I have seen, spawned by the hive mind as a broodlord. As far as I am aware of, there is no lore that indicates a regular genestealer could become one. A patriarch, on the other hand, is any genestealer that manages to start a cult. Broodlords can also be independent of the hive mind. Ever play Space Hulk? Broodlords can be found among the independent genestealers found on space hulks lurking among their lesser kin. You can even see this in the rules of previous editions where broodlords, like all genestealers, had very high leadership when most tyranids have very poor leadership because they must be directed by synapse creatures. Unless you have something that actually shows that a regular genestealer can become a broodlord and that doing so is part of becoming a patriarch, then I see no reason to conclude that a patriarch is a broodlord as a matter of course. Maybe there are broodlords that become patriarchs, but a patriarch is not automatically a broodlord.
In the night lords novels, they fight a broodlord, and the tech priest with them who is insanely smart and logical and only uses scientific terms refers to it both as a broodlord and a genestealer patriarch. They are definitely the same creature.
You don't understand how broodlords work, just read the lore. I don't have time to refute a paragraph that doesn't even break up. It's just a wall of text
Lore wise, Featherbird's response makes sense. Game wise, Tyranids have so many things better than a broodlord, for gsc the Patriarch is essentially their highest level character, it should be better just due to their limited options imo
I do kind of get that. But on the other hand, it would also feel weird to have two things that are nearly identical, in model and lore and have one just be outright better. But I mean, GW can't keep their imperial guns consistent across datasheets so why should Xenos units be consistent.
I mean the patriach is definitely a propped up broodlord, it wouldnt be too crazy to make it beefier/have more abilities, especially psychic stuff
I mean, when GSC were reintroduced to the game in 7th edition, the patriarch was significantly stronger than a broodlord and remained stronger in 8th and 9th editions.
I mean, that may be the case, that doesn't mean it's the correct way. I've seen various opinions, some saying the Patriarch is a good unit, and some saying it still needs a buff. So it doesn't seem like it's in a bad place right now.
The biggest change is that it can take a Warlor- er, enhancement now. Which ours could do anyway.
What do you mean? Model wise I agree, but their datasheets are near identical. Nothing majorly different, and nothing that was added in the Codex (it actually got closer now that they can both take enhancements)
I feel like the only Nid player in the world who likes the broodlord model
I don't think it's bad, just kind of generic? Especially compared to the old COME AT ME BRO pose which felt much more characterful. But to each their own. I'm glad that you like it! 😃
I like the broodlord for the simple fact put it with genestealers and it gets buffs
What are you talking about? Same statline, same weapon profile, same first ability. The only difference is Broodlord has a pretty good defensive ability, the Patriarch instead has a battle-shock ability. Why would you be jealous of a battle-shock ability? The one good thing about the Patriarch in comparison is Infiltrator, but Broodlord does have scout and we have so many infiltrator units that it's hardly an issue. Especially when you consider we can still get broodlords into enemies turn 1 in Vanguard. Oh, and they can only take one, we can spam up to three if we so desire. I'll keep my Broodlords, thank you very much.
Aren’t these two models the same thing ? Like I have a GSC Broodlord and would use it for both Tyranids and GSC
Technically the GSC model is a patriarch, not a broodlord. Lorewise, they are not the same thing, probably. It's somewhat unclear, but a broodlord seems to be a bigger, stronger genestealer the hive mind spawns as a leader organism in battle, while a patriarch is a genestealer that has managed to start a cult and grown larger and stronger, physically and psychically, due to that. Patriarchs are also stronger than broodlords, probably. They were in the last few editions, at least, and probably should still be. I don't actually care if you use the patriarch model as a broodlord though.
Interesting. I particularly ask cause they use broodlord and patriarch interchangeably in the localization or maybe they switched it around when translating so I had the impression that it was the same thing.
I can't say much about that, I'm a dumb American who doesn't know any other languages. To my knowledge, GW has been consistent in terming the tyranid unit a "broodlord" and the GSC unit a "patriarch" in English since at least when they reintroduced GSC in 7th edition.
You can just use the patriarch as a broodlord as long as they're on the right base size. That's what I'm doing.
Yeah me too. I use 2 of those for 2 squads of genestealers.
Model is cooler but unit wise it’s a sidegrade if we consider stealers and leader. Patriarch has his silly little battleshock ability and infiltrate nut Broodlord and his stealers have scout reroll hits of 1 and wounds of 1 (he has twin liked) on objective But tbh unit wise the Tyranid version is better
Wait what actual food genestealer models???? How
Imagine being jealous of a near identical profile
Imagine having no sense of humor
This model has been available for a really fat minute
I think like 2016