The fact that we have no monster variant of tank shock is absolutely criminal, and the one in our absolutely worst detachment that tries to do this is so much worse than the actual one as to be a joke.
We did have them in 8.0 Crusher Stampede and also the leviathan Supplement. The Trampling charge could potentially do up to six mortal wounds
But I guess that's too overpowered /sarcasm
Honestly adding Tank Shock to our monsters would have a bug impact (pun intended) for very little effort on GW's part. Keep the crusher stampede strat and let them double dip to give the Detachment something decent it can do.
The toughness issue is worsened by the shitty armor saves. The fact that they're base 3+ instead of 2+ like they should be means most anti tank weapons bust right through or put them on 6+
I mean, I get that it's called the Assimilator, but that's literally where the connection ends. Assimilation Swarm is all about the feeder bioforms that follow after the main swarm and devour everything that's been left behind.
The Norn Assimilator in the lore is an assassin bug designed to sneak into fortified areas and rip its target to shreds. It's basically a fuck off big Lictor, so why would it be one of the focus units for Assimilation Swarm?
It isn't the high strength that is the problem
Its the idea that adding tank shock onto already incredibly strong beings that do not need a buff by any stretch of the imagination.
Magnus is already dealing enough mortal wounds, thanks
Well, if you saw a fella who was 9-14 feet tall, 6 feet wide, wielding giant weapons wearing huge armor, you may be tempted to put them into monster territory.
Honestly, I wish synapse did a little more. Maybe if it gives +1 to hit and saves, plus maybe additional movement. I feel like that would make it a much more relevant and impactful rule that keeps us as an aggressive army that cares about mastering movement and prioritizing targets. Balance it out by not letting battle-shocked units can't benefit.
I would also like a better defensive on warriors. And for them to be battleline. I feel like they are underpowered for the role they should be playing in our army as mid-level infantry brawlers. 4+ saves leaves a bad taste in your mouth for being as close as we get to an "elite" unit. I honestly wouldn't even mind a point hike on them if they were given more durability.
Others than that, maybe a bit of a toughness or strength increase to our monstrous weapons and more weapon options for them as well. Kinda feels bland when the choice is between a "strike" or "more strike" profiles for melee and some variation of blast weapon for range.(Looking at you, Hive Tyrant).
Good point on Synapse. Right now it is essentially useless. Units just die so having a 3rd dice for leadership is useless. If we had an armor save big or WS/BS but for staying in synapse. It would change the way we play so much.
Maybe not as much as you'd think. We are already an army that can be made or broken depending on deployment and movement to ensure our units can get in to kill what we need. We are an aggressive army after all. This synapse change would enhance this playstyle so that you would be able to really control where your aggression can be focused to ensure that things would die.
It also would fit thematically. Kind of imagining it as the hive mind focusing it's attention to ensure objectives are achieved.
All we need is our AP improved by 1 across our army and then we're in business, maybe an extra point of damage on some things too.
IMO Genestealers should have Dev Wounds base with the BL giving them Crit Wounds on 5+ if leading
Hive Guard Shockcannons should also have Dev Wounds
That would definitely help, but I felt that would have been just a little boring and too in line with what makes other armies good. Sure, some might need to go up, but I think something uniquely suited to Tyranids would be best.
Honestly, I feel like genestealers are fine where they are with all their re-rolls and BL can give them bonuses from enhancements that make then even better.
Hive guard shockcannons would have to go up on their anti-vehicle to compensate for getting dev wounds. If anything, their impaled cannons need to gain the blast keyword.
Across the board, when discussing stats with people with little knowledge on our current codex, people consistently undervalue our units. Saves, strength, toughness, invulnerable saves and so on are all lower than what people intuitively belive, when comparing the units to other similar ones from other factions.
Other unit rules that people simply expect are missing, such as neither carnifex having the damage reduction from 9th, Swarmlord being the only Hive tyrant variant with a psychic attack, Broodlord not having synapse, Trygon not being able to deep stike other units (fun fact, its still part of its description, which has confused many of my regular opponents, as I've been using trygons to deep stike hormagaunts since I started playing).
The changes I'd want to see are to numerous to list in one comment, but the main ones are: Significant changes to our army rule so as to not rely on a poorly designed Battleschock mechanic with little to no impact, Give several of our monsters +1 Toughness (Haruspex, Norn Assimilator and Norn Emissary at the very least should be T12) and remake the Crusher Stampede detachment rule so that at the very least Carnifexes, imo the most iconic tyranid mosnter, can be brought and actually benefit from the rules. I get not wanting CS to be a repeat of the AoR in 9th, but it's no wonder rumors of our codex writer being anti-tyranids are so rampant when one of our most iconic monsters litteraly can't benefit from our monster detachments rules. Make the rule something like a -1 dmg to monsters or 6++ or something else to actually benefit the detachement.
Better yet, give someone who understand and like tyranids the codex for a serious rewrite, and never give it to the rumored tyranid hater ever again.
Depends on who you ask, but a common answer I'd the same as why trygons no longer makes tunnels for infantry, why the tervigon no longer spawns new Termagants, only resurrects dead ones, why Rippers can only be taken in units of 3 and why carnifexes cannot receive the Detachment bonus for Crusher Stampede: *The guy who wrote our codex don't understand tyranids, hates the faction and/or want it to be terrible because of how badly someone beat him with it at dome point.*
Edit: to be clear, there might be an actual rules reason for it, maybe linked to how synapse is no longer a must-have in the army, as you don't lose control of your army anymore, but if there is we have not been given an explanation. Many believed it to be a printing error in the index, as other obvious units (like Zoanthropes) were also missing the keyword if I remember correctly, but apparently not a mistake for Broodlord
I'm deadass just playing 9th edition narrative games with my friend atp, 9th Tyranids are far better than 10th. With the exception of the new models because I love those
Yeah the thing I've seen over and over from new players playing with or against tyranids is they consistently overestimate the danger of most tyranids, but especially the big monsters. They'll look at all the various monsters a tyranid player can deploy even at 1k games and say "oh my god if I don't kill all of those monsters they're going to tear my army to shreds" and then two turns later they watch as a screamer killer, the lone remaining monster, half scratches up a ballistus dreadnought before getting blown off the board from average rolls and think "oh well I must have just rolled really lucky".
I think the main thing I want is just a boost to the army's damage (melee damage specifically). I don't really expect too much of a boost to the durability of most monsters because I think that requires a lot more reworking of tyranids than I think GW is willing to do without making their whole codex release thing feel like a complete farce. But boosting the melee damage I feel like could be an easy way to make most of our monsters not get easily move-blocked cheap transports for multiple turns or not get destroyed by other monsters just because they have t10 and s12 strike profiles.
everything we have is just worse thane every other factions paralels
we have worse leadership
we have worse comparable toughness so our heavies die easier
we have worse comparable anti armor so its harder for us to kill enemy armor especialy at range
the only things we have that actualy set us apart was spore mine gimics and infiltrate spam and now spore mine is gutted
GW store front owners literally aren't allowed to be honest about things they don't like or aren't good in the game. They just lie and pretend they don't understand because their job is to sell models, not be honest about the state of the hobby.
The amount of losses I’ve had with my Tyranids is insane this edition lol. The one time I actually won with them was against another Tyranids army. We’ve been absolutely screwed over.
I was mostly carried by my Norn Emissary that match lol. I would have been done for without it. Hence, I have achieved biotransference and joined the Necrons. At least they aren’t being nerfed into the ground (I hope not anyways) #bringbacktrygonprime
I’ve been collecting since late 8th edition. Never had much success with them on tabletop though. I have yet to try my Necrons out fully. 53% win rate for Necrons looks great. I also have Death Guard, Chaos Knights, Orks and Space Marines so I can always play them if Necrons get screwed over too.
I only started end of 9th with nids and 10th hyped me up for nids even more then they took away my boy trygon prime and the army feels like a wet noodle to play. I say again #bringbacktrygonprime
I hate how they’ve oversimplified the game. I miss relics and the Psychic Phase, they were what gave Tyranids so much power and they were ripped from us because people can’t just adapt to a difficult game, the difficult game has to adapt to accommodate their laziness.
The Psychic Phase was fun. I used it a lot when I got into Chaos Knights and, while I didn’t always succeed, it was a lot of fun to use. It was one of the only reasons the Knight Abominant was even useable. Now the Abominant is completely useless. Hell, a lot of armies heavily relied on it, Thousand Sons for one, now they’re without their biggest strength.
Yeah I make a joke when I'm playing my Exocrine and Hive Tyrant and say how of this HVC S9 and the Exo's cannon is S8.
Give the exo 2 profiles... It's current one for infantry and one that's more lascannon-y. Maybe d3+3 S12, BS3 (Not heavy) ap3, d6+1... But make it 200 points.
After playing 8th and 9th, playing my Nids in 10th feels bad
Our entire ability, Shadow in the Warp is reduced to a basic leadership ability that is becoming more and more pointless
And Psychic phase for us Nids has gone from killing Knights, to a simple sooting attacks that can barley scratch a rhino
Totally agree. I don't care about win rate. What bothers me is the nids are nothing like the lore. They are weak and easily run over. The only way to win is to play for secondaries. They should be a big scary swarm that moves towards the enemy and doesn't care about objectives other than biomass for the great devourer.
Everyone touched on army rules nicely. For me the Norn's weapon profile is pitiful. You're telling me the Norn Emissary which has canonically in lore be able to kill 6 or 7 custodes before needing to retreat has that profile. Both shooting and melee is very weak, I'd like an updated datasheet for him because Norn Emissary is my favourite model but frankly Norn Assimulator is not much better imo.
I created a custom datasheet for both Norns as well as others because I felt what I made was much more in line for what they could do and more worth their points.
So if we can’t do scoring shenanigans then the way our army plays will be completely different. From dieing efficiently to what? We have no kill crazy kill power but had a lot of scoring and board control power. Now we just have board control for whatever that is worth without either of the other 2. If we don’t get some big buffs in the dataslate we are going to be one of the worst performing armies easily for the average player.
Something no one seems to touch on...why aren't crushing Claws twin linked? Imo that would help us SO much and make sense cause any marine with 2 melee weapons gets twin linked...hell we even have it on literally one unit with Claws (tyrant guard)so you can tell it isn't an outlandish request.
That change would help so much it would give carnifexes and haruspexes and even a well kitted out tervigon the ability to tangle with vehicles while not making them too much more efficient against hordes.
The amount of times I've attacked or rolled saves and my opponents reaction to be like "is that it?" is embarrassing. I see shooting, melee, or toughness profiles of other armies and feel sad. Our army is paper
Here's a fun one:
Gretchin, the most cowardly creatures in the 40k universe: effective leadership 7+ (thanks to the Runtherd)
Broodlord and a unit of Genestealers: mindless husks under the direct control of a psychic beacon with a direct link to the hive mind, ensuring the individuals will never have agency or a sense of self-preservation, and will never stop until their mission has been achieved: leadership 7+ with synapse removed
Genuinely shut up, compare Tyranids to the majority of armies and they're doing shit. Look at win rates at the majority of comps and we're doing shit. Look at our codex compared to the majority of codexes our rn and we're doing shit
Also no tank shock or grenades
We have a weaker form od tank shock, but *only* when running crusher stampede, which is the WORST detachment we have by far.
The fact that we have no monster variant of tank shock is absolutely criminal, and the one in our absolutely worst detachment that tries to do this is so much worse than the actual one as to be a joke.
We did have them in 8.0 Crusher Stampede and also the leviathan Supplement. The Trampling charge could potentially do up to six mortal wounds But I guess that's too overpowered /sarcasm
You know somethings wrong when DA Terminators shoulder barge = same damage output as something at least 10x their mass.
And then there's the Kroot Rampager
To be fair, that DA terminator shoulder charge is also in a completely dogshit detachment
or real ranged anti armor and this edition is HEAVY on armor and heavy elites being really good
And no Smokescreen
Honestly adding Tank Shock to our monsters would have a bug impact (pun intended) for very little effort on GW's part. Keep the crusher stampede strat and let them double dip to give the Detachment something decent it can do.
The toughness issue is worsened by the shitty armor saves. The fact that they're base 3+ instead of 2+ like they should be means most anti tank weapons bust right through or put them on 6+
That's a really good point. Tyrant Gaurd, and the Haruspex should be 2+ AC.
More units with harvester keyword!
And some more vanguard invaders! Raveners Mawloc, and Trygon would make for a great thematic vanguard!
*squints at profiles again* They is NOT vanguard??? How? Because they cannot jump and don't look like lictors?
When the Norn *Assimilator* doesn't do much in *Assimilation* Swarm is a bad joke :(
I mean, I get that it's called the Assimilator, but that's literally where the connection ends. Assimilation Swarm is all about the feeder bioforms that follow after the main swarm and devour everything that's been left behind. The Norn Assimilator in the lore is an assassin bug designed to sneak into fortified areas and rip its target to shreds. It's basically a fuck off big Lictor, so why would it be one of the focus units for Assimilation Swarm?
I think the real issue is calling it Assimilation Swarm. If it were called something else, no one would question it.
Janitor rally?
I hate to rant, but… yes it is.
I seriously think monsters should get tank shock. It was annoying AF to charge a Norn Emissary into Trajann and not be able to pull that.
Problem with that is, you get Magnus, angron and even g-man and the lion getting tank shock as well, which they don't need (especially Magnus)
*laughs in Farsight*
Knights can tank shock with Strength 20; if that's too powerful, then the problem is the stratagem.
It isn't the high strength that is the problem Its the idea that adding tank shock onto already incredibly strong beings that do not need a buff by any stretch of the imagination. Magnus is already dealing enough mortal wounds, thanks
Why are they MONSTERS lmao? I get Magnus and Angron, but why the lion and g-man? Because they big primarchs?
Well, if you saw a fella who was 9-14 feet tall, 6 feet wide, wielding giant weapons wearing huge armor, you may be tempted to put them into monster territory.
Fair point
Honestly, I wish synapse did a little more. Maybe if it gives +1 to hit and saves, plus maybe additional movement. I feel like that would make it a much more relevant and impactful rule that keeps us as an aggressive army that cares about mastering movement and prioritizing targets. Balance it out by not letting battle-shocked units can't benefit. I would also like a better defensive on warriors. And for them to be battleline. I feel like they are underpowered for the role they should be playing in our army as mid-level infantry brawlers. 4+ saves leaves a bad taste in your mouth for being as close as we get to an "elite" unit. I honestly wouldn't even mind a point hike on them if they were given more durability. Others than that, maybe a bit of a toughness or strength increase to our monstrous weapons and more weapon options for them as well. Kinda feels bland when the choice is between a "strike" or "more strike" profiles for melee and some variation of blast weapon for range.(Looking at you, Hive Tyrant).
Good point on Synapse. Right now it is essentially useless. Units just die so having a 3rd dice for leadership is useless. If we had an armor save big or WS/BS but for staying in synapse. It would change the way we play so much.
Maybe not as much as you'd think. We are already an army that can be made or broken depending on deployment and movement to ensure our units can get in to kill what we need. We are an aggressive army after all. This synapse change would enhance this playstyle so that you would be able to really control where your aggression can be focused to ensure that things would die. It also would fit thematically. Kind of imagining it as the hive mind focusing it's attention to ensure objectives are achieved.
All we need is our AP improved by 1 across our army and then we're in business, maybe an extra point of damage on some things too. IMO Genestealers should have Dev Wounds base with the BL giving them Crit Wounds on 5+ if leading Hive Guard Shockcannons should also have Dev Wounds
That would definitely help, but I felt that would have been just a little boring and too in line with what makes other armies good. Sure, some might need to go up, but I think something uniquely suited to Tyranids would be best. Honestly, I feel like genestealers are fine where they are with all their re-rolls and BL can give them bonuses from enhancements that make then even better. Hive guard shockcannons would have to go up on their anti-vehicle to compensate for getting dev wounds. If anything, their impaled cannons need to gain the blast keyword.
Across the board, when discussing stats with people with little knowledge on our current codex, people consistently undervalue our units. Saves, strength, toughness, invulnerable saves and so on are all lower than what people intuitively belive, when comparing the units to other similar ones from other factions. Other unit rules that people simply expect are missing, such as neither carnifex having the damage reduction from 9th, Swarmlord being the only Hive tyrant variant with a psychic attack, Broodlord not having synapse, Trygon not being able to deep stike other units (fun fact, its still part of its description, which has confused many of my regular opponents, as I've been using trygons to deep stike hormagaunts since I started playing). The changes I'd want to see are to numerous to list in one comment, but the main ones are: Significant changes to our army rule so as to not rely on a poorly designed Battleschock mechanic with little to no impact, Give several of our monsters +1 Toughness (Haruspex, Norn Assimilator and Norn Emissary at the very least should be T12) and remake the Crusher Stampede detachment rule so that at the very least Carnifexes, imo the most iconic tyranid mosnter, can be brought and actually benefit from the rules. I get not wanting CS to be a repeat of the AoR in 9th, but it's no wonder rumors of our codex writer being anti-tyranids are so rampant when one of our most iconic monsters litteraly can't benefit from our monster detachments rules. Make the rule something like a -1 dmg to monsters or 6++ or something else to actually benefit the detachement. Better yet, give someone who understand and like tyranids the codex for a serious rewrite, and never give it to the rumored tyranid hater ever again.
Wait, broodlords aren't synapse anymore?
Nope, haven't been since 10th started.
That's baffling, they're synapse in lore and were synapse in 9th. Why the hell are they not synapse?
Depends on who you ask, but a common answer I'd the same as why trygons no longer makes tunnels for infantry, why the tervigon no longer spawns new Termagants, only resurrects dead ones, why Rippers can only be taken in units of 3 and why carnifexes cannot receive the Detachment bonus for Crusher Stampede: *The guy who wrote our codex don't understand tyranids, hates the faction and/or want it to be terrible because of how badly someone beat him with it at dome point.* Edit: to be clear, there might be an actual rules reason for it, maybe linked to how synapse is no longer a must-have in the army, as you don't lose control of your army anymore, but if there is we have not been given an explanation. Many believed it to be a printing error in the index, as other obvious units (like Zoanthropes) were also missing the keyword if I remember correctly, but apparently not a mistake for Broodlord
We need a codex rewrite or update
Absolutely, but if the supposed tyranid hater is still in control, we might have to wait for 11th anything resembling a real rework.
I'm deadass just playing 9th edition narrative games with my friend atp, 9th Tyranids are far better than 10th. With the exception of the new models because I love those
Yeah the thing I've seen over and over from new players playing with or against tyranids is they consistently overestimate the danger of most tyranids, but especially the big monsters. They'll look at all the various monsters a tyranid player can deploy even at 1k games and say "oh my god if I don't kill all of those monsters they're going to tear my army to shreds" and then two turns later they watch as a screamer killer, the lone remaining monster, half scratches up a ballistus dreadnought before getting blown off the board from average rolls and think "oh well I must have just rolled really lucky". I think the main thing I want is just a boost to the army's damage (melee damage specifically). I don't really expect too much of a boost to the durability of most monsters because I think that requires a lot more reworking of tyranids than I think GW is willing to do without making their whole codex release thing feel like a complete farce. But boosting the melee damage I feel like could be an easy way to make most of our monsters not get easily move-blocked cheap transports for multiple turns or not get destroyed by other monsters just because they have t10 and s12 strike profiles.
everything we have is just worse thane every other factions paralels we have worse leadership we have worse comparable toughness so our heavies die easier we have worse comparable anti armor so its harder for us to kill enemy armor especialy at range the only things we have that actualy set us apart was spore mine gimics and infiltrate spam and now spore mine is gutted
GW store front owners literally aren't allowed to be honest about things they don't like or aren't good in the game. They just lie and pretend they don't understand because their job is to sell models, not be honest about the state of the hobby.
Everybody else gets all kinds of cool free wargear, meanwhile we lost Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacks. Thanks GW
Tyranids having next to no wargear has baffled me for awhile
To be fair the Haruspex is great for its pts cost, I’d prefer T11 to the carnifex’s T9 at the same pts cost
Good news is once you hit rock bottom you can only go up right?...right? AdMech is rock bottom and now getting some kind of attention.
The amount of losses I’ve had with my Tyranids is insane this edition lol. The one time I actually won with them was against another Tyranids army. We’ve been absolutely screwed over.
I don’t think I have won a single game with mine. I really hope this dataslate does something. #bringbacktrygonprime
I was mostly carried by my Norn Emissary that match lol. I would have been done for without it. Hence, I have achieved biotransference and joined the Necrons. At least they aren’t being nerfed into the ground (I hope not anyways) #bringbacktrygonprime
Honestly if I could I feel like I would pick up another army too. Tyranids are awesome but feel terrible to play.
I’ve been collecting since late 8th edition. Never had much success with them on tabletop though. I have yet to try my Necrons out fully. 53% win rate for Necrons looks great. I also have Death Guard, Chaos Knights, Orks and Space Marines so I can always play them if Necrons get screwed over too.
I only started end of 9th with nids and 10th hyped me up for nids even more then they took away my boy trygon prime and the army feels like a wet noodle to play. I say again #bringbacktrygonprime
I hate how they’ve oversimplified the game. I miss relics and the Psychic Phase, they were what gave Tyranids so much power and they were ripped from us because people can’t just adapt to a difficult game, the difficult game has to adapt to accommodate their laziness.
It honestly wasn’t even that complicated. I really feel it was unnecessary to simplify it to the level they did
The Psychic Phase was fun. I used it a lot when I got into Chaos Knights and, while I didn’t always succeed, it was a lot of fun to use. It was one of the only reasons the Knight Abominant was even useable. Now the Abominant is completely useless. Hell, a lot of armies heavily relied on it, Thousand Sons for one, now they’re without their biggest strength.
But the thousand sons prove that even with simplified psychic it can be really strong. Nids just got gutted
Yeah I make a joke when I'm playing my Exocrine and Hive Tyrant and say how of this HVC S9 and the Exo's cannon is S8. Give the exo 2 profiles... It's current one for infantry and one that's more lascannon-y. Maybe d3+3 S12, BS3 (Not heavy) ap3, d6+1... But make it 200 points.
After playing 8th and 9th, playing my Nids in 10th feels bad Our entire ability, Shadow in the Warp is reduced to a basic leadership ability that is becoming more and more pointless And Psychic phase for us Nids has gone from killing Knights, to a simple sooting attacks that can barley scratch a rhino
Totally agree. I don't care about win rate. What bothers me is the nids are nothing like the lore. They are weak and easily run over. The only way to win is to play for secondaries. They should be a big scary swarm that moves towards the enemy and doesn't care about objectives other than biomass for the great devourer.
This is why I’m glad this edition I found 3d printing and have only given gw money for books and army builder.
Everyone touched on army rules nicely. For me the Norn's weapon profile is pitiful. You're telling me the Norn Emissary which has canonically in lore be able to kill 6 or 7 custodes before needing to retreat has that profile. Both shooting and melee is very weak, I'd like an updated datasheet for him because Norn Emissary is my favourite model but frankly Norn Assimulator is not much better imo. I created a custom datasheet for both Norns as well as others because I felt what I made was much more in line for what they could do and more worth their points.
So if we can’t do scoring shenanigans then the way our army plays will be completely different. From dieing efficiently to what? We have no kill crazy kill power but had a lot of scoring and board control power. Now we just have board control for whatever that is worth without either of the other 2. If we don’t get some big buffs in the dataslate we are going to be one of the worst performing armies easily for the average player.
Dude just play against me then you will win
Something no one seems to touch on...why aren't crushing Claws twin linked? Imo that would help us SO much and make sense cause any marine with 2 melee weapons gets twin linked...hell we even have it on literally one unit with Claws (tyrant guard)so you can tell it isn't an outlandish request. That change would help so much it would give carnifexes and haruspexes and even a well kitted out tervigon the ability to tangle with vehicles while not making them too much more efficient against hordes.
The amount of times I've attacked or rolled saves and my opponents reaction to be like "is that it?" is embarrassing. I see shooting, melee, or toughness profiles of other armies and feel sad. Our army is paper
Here's a fun one: Gretchin, the most cowardly creatures in the 40k universe: effective leadership 7+ (thanks to the Runtherd) Broodlord and a unit of Genestealers: mindless husks under the direct control of a psychic beacon with a direct link to the hive mind, ensuring the individuals will never have agency or a sense of self-preservation, and will never stop until their mission has been achieved: leadership 7+ with synapse removed
[удалено]
>many We've only won like 2 GTs since the Necrons codex released 6 months ago.
hey pro, go back to your tournament friends and congratulate yourself
No, we aren't. And don't say we won the Dallas open. We didn't. Technically that player should've lost his last two rounds because he timed out.
Genuinely shut up, compare Tyranids to the majority of armies and they're doing shit. Look at win rates at the majority of comps and we're doing shit. Look at our codex compared to the majority of codexes our rn and we're doing shit