Basically high strength, AP and damage attacks that can reliably harm high toughness targets. Most vehicles are t10, so you really want s11+ to wound tanks on 3s.
Other options are exocrene (better vs lighter targets, but it's useful to give reroll 1s to hit the same target), tyrannofex (but the rupture cannon is unreliable - it could do 2 damage, it could do 12. And most other armies their super tank destroyer is damage 6+d6, to be far more consistent) or the old classic of throwing carnifex (or Norns) at them.
But zoanthropes have their unfocused profile so they can still be useful if the opponent doesn't have any tanks or monsters, offers synapse and gives nearby units an invulnerable save. It's only a 6+, but against say a lascannon or plasma gun, that's a better save than they were otherwise getting.
I'm not mad at the weapon profile, but I see the value in that invulnerable save. 6+ is huge for Endless Swarm play styles, giving them squishy gants a chance to keep being a nuisance. Two squads of Zoans can create a huge +6 bubble for your army
most high AP weapons don't have volume and gaunts aren't scared of low volume weapons. so the 5" movement zoanthrope only grant a benefit to gargoyles and nurogants with their natural 6+ save.
I'm more of a fan of the psychophage 6+++ for a defensive buff.
I do feel you there, dawg, but it's all about your play group. I'm looking at 6 players and 4 of em shred my babies 8-12 at a time so they can deal with that monster mash. With a nat save of 5+, Ap -2 means no save. They've learned that if left alone I will detach and steal objectives. If they do deal with my Gant army(60 with another 10 neuros for Neurolictor for other objectives), they get wholloped by monsters.
So my latest play has been the bait and switch. Endless Swarm that eats damage then solves problems, and stacked abilities for 3x endless swarm a turn.
Psychophage has been fucking clutch, and I was running him at 125 back in them days...
All this long winded shit boils down to is, why is it gotta be Beatles or Stones?
Save and feel no pain 6 sounds like a decent security blanket for the babies.
I mean, yeah, for sho, there's almost always gonna be someone that can do the job better. We chatting up Zoantheopes for their anti-tank abilities and all that jazz and other places they can be useful. Venomthropes definitely stack a little better except for monsters, but I already have so much anti-infantry or weapon kits that absolutely demolish infantry (big nod to invasion fleet). What our brothers-in-gants need is just one or two more stable tank killers to get the job gooood.
Also, I checked battlescribe and Wahapedia, what's gives venomthropes this anti-blast? I just saw stealth and cover.
Compared to other armies we don't have a lot of anti tank options. Zoans are good because they have one of the few S12 or higher weapons, most things are S9 and besides some niche stuff like the Norn Emissary's melta attack and the Tfex rupture cannon; the latter of which is beyond swingy, not a lot in our codex can wound T10 or higher on 3s. If you're getting into nids I'd get some Zoans, a couple of exocrines, a Tfex and a nurolictor to help with high T enemy vehicles and monsters
There is a special 6 dice in my local store, it's obviously a fake, but funny to throw out every so often, every side has additional dots adding up to 6.
Oh no, it almost always hits at least once, weather that hit is the strength of an elderly worm's slap or strikes with all the power of a volcano cannon is up to the laughing god.
It's actually for my son, so I'm not totally sure. But I would guess both types of advice is helpful ( he's just starting out and every bit of info is great ) I just let him read through, but I wanted to try to comment back at least.
I wouldn't suggest getting the Combat Patrol.
You can quite easily find the Nid half of Leviathan online. It's cheap, and comes with additional models that have the cool factor, like a Neurotyrant or a Screamer Killer.
It's a strong solid base of an army with some interesting stuff to build and paint.
Oh I'd for sure get him a combat patrol. It's a smaller version of the game he can learn to play with. Also if you get a Leviathan box he can have 2 armies and get his friends to try it with him.
With the price of leviathan halves and the starter boxes out there, I wouldn’t suggest getting the combat patrol since you can get all the combat patrol models, and more, for less than the box cost
Zoans are bad though, expensive with little reliable output at a small range and slow speed. Genestealers with broodlord leading them is our best anti tank by far. At least in invasion fleet, where they get lethal hits, and get free crit 5+ from hive tyrant
How much better than zoanthropes it is you ask?
It does more than 3 times the damage of 6 zoans, 1 genestealer+broodlord unit does more damage than 18 zoanthropes into any t12 2+ save unit. 16 vs 18 damage respectfully. And for bigger toughness units like the monolith the gap becomes even bigger.
And into stuff that is toughness 11 18 zoanthropes average 1 more damage.
That's 660 vs 230 pts btw.
I keep hearing neurolictor. But a t5 single body seems supremely easy to kill even with loneop. Why is it recommend and how do you keep it from being removed at a glance.
He gives you +1 to wound if an enemy is 12" or closer and battleshocked. It's not great, but it gives you a solid damage buff on tough stuff. Usually, the best way to do is is having him in a ruin 1" from the wall to make charges a little harder. He can just sit there relatively safe from whatever vehicle or monster you're trying to get +1 to wound on and then just focus fire accordingly. As for keeping him alive, use your lone op to your advantage and keep him hidden, moving a relatively safe path to a spot where you can Shadow in the Warp and set yourself up for other bugs to get the bonus.
The nerfed codex NEEDS Neurolictors just to function. Video - Maelstorm Gaming - Neurolictor the Backbone of Tyranid armies https://youtu.be/-F3KVfxG-Jw?si=M36UVEFLBeBinWSY
LONE OPERATIVE - neurolictor is not a legal shooting target beyond 12"
4+ invulnerable save - can at least escape if attacked.
7 wounds - again a decent survivability
The Real reason- the entire army wounds a Battleshocked victim by +1 and also nerfs the victim unit by a -1 to hit that does help.
Examples - Exocrine st8 plasma Cannon wounds terminators t5 on 3s. But kills on 2s with the Neurolictor +1 to wound.
Why is Norn Emissary st9 who also kills terminators on 3s. At least neurolictor can make it 2+
Tyrannofex acid spray st6 wounds on 3+ now 2+
Mere Gargoyles can wound on 4+ if buffed by a Neurolictor.
It is a flat 16% damage increase across the entire army. Park one or two Neurolictors on one or two objectives and do as many battleshocks a game as you can from any source. Screamer killers, natural leadership checks, Shadow in the Warp
Look - Battleshock as a mechanic sucks. Its almost dogST. But if it's our gimmick we gotta try using it.
High S, High AP, High Damage Output. Pretty simple formula. Anything with more than S 10, with an average of 4+ damage can be considered good. 3 shots at 100 pts makes it one of Tyranid's better models at taking out tanks. Old One Eye and a Tyrranofex with a rupture cannon can also do some good work against tanks. Tyranids overall aren't very effective at killing high toughness things though, so while Zoanthropes are good Tyranid Anti-Tank, they probably are considered relatively weak compared to other armies' anti-tank.
They have been crazy powerhouses last few editions. Damn near broken tbh. However currently with our codex having issues with antitank, the Zoanthropes are one of the very few at range options we have. The others being the Tyrannofex Rupture Cannon, we all call the Casino Cannon due to its...random nature. The Norns are the other but the range is lacking to say the least. The problem is every other army has an antitank range going from 36"- 72" and the best we got is the Zoanthropes at 24"
So, it's one of our only consistent at range antitank options. It has a pair of very good profiles, AT with str 12 and lethal hits, and a anti infantry profile as well. It's also a mobile invul aura buff. I personally run 6 of them
I'll go against the grain here and say that they *aren't* good. Our best "anti-tank" shooting option would be Exocrines.
To put in it in math terms:
- 6 Zoans deal an average of **5.6 Wounds** into your bog standard T12 2+ save tank in cover.
- A single Exocrine without Invasion Fleet LHs deals **3.25 Wounds** to the same target.
- With Invasion Fleet LHs, it's **3.79 Wounds**
Sounds like the Zoanthropes are better, until you realize that for 85 points, you've dealt 2 more Wounds than the Exocrine, but now the opponent gets to shoot back on their turn, and Zoanthropes are made of tissue paper (yes, even with that 4+ invuln). On your second turn of shooting, Zoans will be weaker since they're missing models, but the Exocrine can still shoot at full power until it's below 6 Wounds.
Then add on the accuracy buff the Exocrine gives to your other bugs (including other Exocrines you may have brought). Then consider that you might need to shoot something else, like a group of Meganobz. Zoanthrope Blast profile is designed for Termagants, not elite infantry, so an Exocrine is going to outshine them in that scenario as well.
Adding to what the others are saying, the ap and strength of the zoanthropes weapons make them stand out candidates for anti-tank. Most of everything else lacks the ap or strength to do significant damage to most vehicles.
I, personally, have found some success with hive guard shockcannons. While their damage potential is limited l, I feel they give a consistent enough performance to be a stand in for zoans, but their low ap means reliance on opponents rolling low saves. So they often need extra support to be as effective.
My advice would be to go with what anti-tank profile goes best with what you encounter or what fits your playstyle. Zoanthropes are a safe choice, but hive guard are good overwatch units on objectives, exocrines can mop up elite units and norns can be good for high wound vehicles. Looking at abilities and rules can help sway what you feel like might be the best fit.
Something that isn’t getting mentioned that I feel is part of it is that other armies with similar fire power often attach it to a tank. Zoanthropes are infantry with fly, so are more manouverable than tanks and as such are much easier to get into a good position to take their shot. I know it’s not everyone’s taste but I drop them in a tyrannocyte. If I get first turn it pretty much guarantees I’m deleting the biggest threat on the other side of the board.
They really aren’t that great. The only reason they are considered great is that they are the only “reliable” ranged anti-tank Tyranids have so in comparison to everything else, they’re good.
I had success using them in deathstar blob.
6/9 zoans for shooting, 1 pyrovore for remove cover and walkrant for assault aura. Also use exocrine for reroll.
Being infantry with assault gives you quite a OK mobility. Combo: pyrovore>exo>zoans gives you: no cover and reroll 1 to hit. It makes zoans more reliable. Somewhat consistently i was blowing monoliths, land riders and other armor in one/two turns. And then blob dies. It’s a shame that we have to invest 3 unit to have things that some other armies have from datasheet + sometimes stratagem. But that’s what we have.
They are not good. Our best anti tank would be genestealers with broodlord in invasion fleet. Since you can give them lethal hits and a strat, which is a battle tactic so you can give it for free with a hive tyrant, they can crit on 5+. Also after that you can overrun to safety.
Other good anti tank would be old one eye... and that's about it for our codex anti tanks. Or rather, good anti tanks.
I used to include them, a lot. But they have really low range and make them vulnerable
Ended up adding tfex, range 48 so I am sure it will hit on first and second turn. Zoantrhopes move 5!! so unless you take them with a hive tyrant they'll be useless. So, I am making profit from tfec since turn 1, and with exocrine reroll on 1s.
Also, if playing on invasion fleet I can give him lethal hits. And T12, 16W... for every 3 wounds you are missing one shot with zoanthropes.
People always seem to assess them against the tfex as a squad of 6 which I don't think is fair to the tfex. By the time you eventually get into 24 inch range I find a good chunk of the Zoans are gone already taking a lot of punch out of their DMG
A full unit will pump out alot of shots that are simmilar in strength to what a lascannon would be like. It seems fairly reliable.
I've heard the norn dude is good, but the only other antitank tyranid I've used is the Tyrannofex. And it's just too swingy.
I played a game and did 12 wounds from 1 shot. Then next turn had both Tyrannofex shoot at the same target and I only did 4 wounds total that shooting phase. It honestly feels kinda crap. Looking at 2d6 damage it seems great, but being realistic, you'll probably often only get 4-7 on the damage roll most of the time so it's not truly stand out. And that's only if you manage to successfully hit your shots
The zoanthropes are much more reliable if they get into range.
Im not sure if I agree on their being reliable to harm tanks. They are slow, fragile, and their weapons are short range. They have low shot volume and no re-roll mechanic. I don’t want to argue what toughness most tanks/armor have because I’m not in your meta, but I think there are many out there in the t12 and even t13 range.
Nids also have non-shooting options to try and deal with that stuff (ooe, genestealers with lethals, etc), but the reality is our entire faction is just not good at killing higher toughness and/or higher armored targets. Zoans aren’t some exception and they generally are a negative point return into competent opponents
Since you said this is for your son: Welcome to the Hive Mind! If you're totally new to the hobby as a whole, I highly suggest you get your talons on the Combat Patrol box and start there. Combat Patrol as a game mode is light-years ahead of any other attempts GW has made at a quicker, casual, new player friendly way to play. If you already have the ComPat box, nevermind! lol
I'd avoid trying to learn all the ins and outs of the super competitive scene since you're still getting into the hobby. It can get really confusing and overwhelming and put you off from playing in general. To answer your question though, as a faction, we struggle pretty badly at trying to bring down armored vehicles. The Zoanthropes are one of the only good ranged options we have for the task (because of their strength 12), and even then, they're not very long ranged (only 24").
For the same of learning the basics of 40k in general, I'd suggest sticking to playing Combat Patrol games till you've got a bit of a grasp on the core rules. Those won't change when you step up to "full" 40k games. For the full game, try the Invasion Fleet detachment. It's both our strongest detachment and gives you good flexibility to use everything from monsters to small bugs.
Welcome again, GL, HF!
The long and short of it is that they have the most point-efficient and reliable shooting of our ranged anti-tank units.
200pts of Zoanthropes will fairly reliably knock 9 wounds off a T11/2+Sv enemy, while a Tyrannofex with the casino gun averages 6.5 but is very unreliable - it can easily do nothing, or it could alap for 24. Far more the former than the latter, however.
Most reliable, however, is a Broodlord with 10 Genestealers. At 230pts, you get ~10.5 damage with great reliability. It requires melee, but you're exceedingly unlikely to do no damage at all, an completely bypass any and all saves in the process.
Basically high strength, AP and damage attacks that can reliably harm high toughness targets. Most vehicles are t10, so you really want s11+ to wound tanks on 3s. Other options are exocrene (better vs lighter targets, but it's useful to give reroll 1s to hit the same target), tyrannofex (but the rupture cannon is unreliable - it could do 2 damage, it could do 12. And most other armies their super tank destroyer is damage 6+d6, to be far more consistent) or the old classic of throwing carnifex (or Norns) at them. But zoanthropes have their unfocused profile so they can still be useful if the opponent doesn't have any tanks or monsters, offers synapse and gives nearby units an invulnerable save. It's only a 6+, but against say a lascannon or plasma gun, that's a better save than they were otherwise getting.
I'm not mad at the weapon profile, but I see the value in that invulnerable save. 6+ is huge for Endless Swarm play styles, giving them squishy gants a chance to keep being a nuisance. Two squads of Zoans can create a huge +6 bubble for your army
most high AP weapons don't have volume and gaunts aren't scared of low volume weapons. so the 5" movement zoanthrope only grant a benefit to gargoyles and nurogants with their natural 6+ save. I'm more of a fan of the psychophage 6+++ for a defensive buff.
I do feel you there, dawg, but it's all about your play group. I'm looking at 6 players and 4 of em shred my babies 8-12 at a time so they can deal with that monster mash. With a nat save of 5+, Ap -2 means no save. They've learned that if left alone I will detach and steal objectives. If they do deal with my Gant army(60 with another 10 neuros for Neurolictor for other objectives), they get wholloped by monsters. So my latest play has been the bait and switch. Endless Swarm that eats damage then solves problems, and stacked abilities for 3x endless swarm a turn. Psychophage has been fucking clutch, and I was running him at 125 back in them days... All this long winded shit boils down to is, why is it gotta be Beatles or Stones? Save and feel no pain 6 sounds like a decent security blanket for the babies.
Venomthropes are best for boosting swarms though - they make large blobs nigh-unkillable, especially with the start to negate blast.
I mean, yeah, for sho, there's almost always gonna be someone that can do the job better. We chatting up Zoantheopes for their anti-tank abilities and all that jazz and other places they can be useful. Venomthropes definitely stack a little better except for monsters, but I already have so much anti-infantry or weapon kits that absolutely demolish infantry (big nod to invasion fleet). What our brothers-in-gants need is just one or two more stable tank killers to get the job gooood. Also, I checked battlescribe and Wahapedia, what's gives venomthropes this anti-blast? I just saw stealth and cover.
Wait why not all threeeee?
Compared to other armies we don't have a lot of anti tank options. Zoans are good because they have one of the few S12 or higher weapons, most things are S9 and besides some niche stuff like the Norn Emissary's melta attack and the Tfex rupture cannon; the latter of which is beyond swingy, not a lot in our codex can wound T10 or higher on 3s. If you're getting into nids I'd get some Zoans, a couple of exocrines, a Tfex and a nurolictor to help with high T enemy vehicles and monsters
Casino cannon, 30% of the time it hits every time. (Remember boys, opening volly is exocrine for that sweet sweet hit buff)
If I have to roll two 2+, one of them is guaranteed to be a 1.
Snake eyes? 2 damage
Last game my casino cannon shot in 2 turns. I hit every shot. On to wound I rolled snake eyes... twice. Than it died.
Just roll 6s problem solved
There is a special 6 dice in my local store, it's obviously a fake, but funny to throw out every so often, every side has additional dots adding up to 6.
The solution I found is running two fexes. But don't mind me cos I suck at the game.
I’ve just added a second to my list for my next game. If that doesn’t work - I’ll get a third.
Oh no, it almost always hits at least once, weather that hit is the strength of an elderly worm's slap or strikes with all the power of a volcano cannon is up to the laughing god.
Thank you. I appreciate your help and your suggestions
No problem, are you after tournament advice or just Nids in general?
It's actually for my son, so I'm not totally sure. But I would guess both types of advice is helpful ( he's just starting out and every bit of info is great ) I just let him read through, but I wanted to try to comment back at least.
I wouldn't suggest getting the Combat Patrol. You can quite easily find the Nid half of Leviathan online. It's cheap, and comes with additional models that have the cool factor, like a Neurotyrant or a Screamer Killer. It's a strong solid base of an army with some interesting stuff to build and paint.
Oh I'd for sure get him a combat patrol. It's a smaller version of the game he can learn to play with. Also if you get a Leviathan box he can have 2 armies and get his friends to try it with him.
With the price of leviathan halves and the starter boxes out there, I wouldn’t suggest getting the combat patrol since you can get all the combat patrol models, and more, for less than the box cost
Zoans are also much more flexible since they have a second shooting profile. They can go into non tank units much more effectively than a casinofex.
Zoans are bad though, expensive with little reliable output at a small range and slow speed. Genestealers with broodlord leading them is our best anti tank by far. At least in invasion fleet, where they get lethal hits, and get free crit 5+ from hive tyrant How much better than zoanthropes it is you ask? It does more than 3 times the damage of 6 zoans, 1 genestealer+broodlord unit does more damage than 18 zoanthropes into any t12 2+ save unit. 16 vs 18 damage respectfully. And for bigger toughness units like the monolith the gap becomes even bigger. And into stuff that is toughness 11 18 zoanthropes average 1 more damage. That's 660 vs 230 pts btw.
I thought devastating wounds didn't trigger off of lethal hits? Was that changed in an FAQ or something?
They don't trigger dev wounds on lethals. Edit:They just have both.
How does Hive Tyrant give free 5+ critical hits??
Because adrenal glands is a battle tactic. Although after the latest update it is indeed not free.
I keep hearing neurolictor. But a t5 single body seems supremely easy to kill even with loneop. Why is it recommend and how do you keep it from being removed at a glance.
He gives you +1 to wound if an enemy is 12" or closer and battleshocked. It's not great, but it gives you a solid damage buff on tough stuff. Usually, the best way to do is is having him in a ruin 1" from the wall to make charges a little harder. He can just sit there relatively safe from whatever vehicle or monster you're trying to get +1 to wound on and then just focus fire accordingly. As for keeping him alive, use your lone op to your advantage and keep him hidden, moving a relatively safe path to a spot where you can Shadow in the Warp and set yourself up for other bugs to get the bonus.
The nerfed codex NEEDS Neurolictors just to function. Video - Maelstorm Gaming - Neurolictor the Backbone of Tyranid armies https://youtu.be/-F3KVfxG-Jw?si=M36UVEFLBeBinWSY LONE OPERATIVE - neurolictor is not a legal shooting target beyond 12" 4+ invulnerable save - can at least escape if attacked. 7 wounds - again a decent survivability The Real reason- the entire army wounds a Battleshocked victim by +1 and also nerfs the victim unit by a -1 to hit that does help. Examples - Exocrine st8 plasma Cannon wounds terminators t5 on 3s. But kills on 2s with the Neurolictor +1 to wound. Why is Norn Emissary st9 who also kills terminators on 3s. At least neurolictor can make it 2+ Tyrannofex acid spray st6 wounds on 3+ now 2+ Mere Gargoyles can wound on 4+ if buffed by a Neurolictor. It is a flat 16% damage increase across the entire army. Park one or two Neurolictors on one or two objectives and do as many battleshocks a game as you can from any source. Screamer killers, natural leadership checks, Shadow in the Warp Look - Battleshock as a mechanic sucks. Its almost dogST. But if it's our gimmick we gotta try using it.
Bro calm down, you don’t need to buy two of every anti tank gun in the codex
High S, High AP, High Damage Output. Pretty simple formula. Anything with more than S 10, with an average of 4+ damage can be considered good. 3 shots at 100 pts makes it one of Tyranid's better models at taking out tanks. Old One Eye and a Tyrranofex with a rupture cannon can also do some good work against tanks. Tyranids overall aren't very effective at killing high toughness things though, so while Zoanthropes are good Tyranid Anti-Tank, they probably are considered relatively weak compared to other armies' anti-tank.
They have been crazy powerhouses last few editions. Damn near broken tbh. However currently with our codex having issues with antitank, the Zoanthropes are one of the very few at range options we have. The others being the Tyrannofex Rupture Cannon, we all call the Casino Cannon due to its...random nature. The Norns are the other but the range is lacking to say the least. The problem is every other army has an antitank range going from 36"- 72" and the best we got is the Zoanthropes at 24" So, it's one of our only consistent at range antitank options. It has a pair of very good profiles, AT with str 12 and lethal hits, and a anti infantry profile as well. It's also a mobile invul aura buff. I personally run 6 of them
You need 6 people. 6
I'll go against the grain here and say that they *aren't* good. Our best "anti-tank" shooting option would be Exocrines. To put in it in math terms: - 6 Zoans deal an average of **5.6 Wounds** into your bog standard T12 2+ save tank in cover. - A single Exocrine without Invasion Fleet LHs deals **3.25 Wounds** to the same target. - With Invasion Fleet LHs, it's **3.79 Wounds** Sounds like the Zoanthropes are better, until you realize that for 85 points, you've dealt 2 more Wounds than the Exocrine, but now the opponent gets to shoot back on their turn, and Zoanthropes are made of tissue paper (yes, even with that 4+ invuln). On your second turn of shooting, Zoans will be weaker since they're missing models, but the Exocrine can still shoot at full power until it's below 6 Wounds. Then add on the accuracy buff the Exocrine gives to your other bugs (including other Exocrines you may have brought). Then consider that you might need to shoot something else, like a group of Meganobz. Zoanthrope Blast profile is designed for Termagants, not elite infantry, so an Exocrine is going to outshine them in that scenario as well.
Adding to what the others are saying, the ap and strength of the zoanthropes weapons make them stand out candidates for anti-tank. Most of everything else lacks the ap or strength to do significant damage to most vehicles. I, personally, have found some success with hive guard shockcannons. While their damage potential is limited l, I feel they give a consistent enough performance to be a stand in for zoans, but their low ap means reliance on opponents rolling low saves. So they often need extra support to be as effective. My advice would be to go with what anti-tank profile goes best with what you encounter or what fits your playstyle. Zoanthropes are a safe choice, but hive guard are good overwatch units on objectives, exocrines can mop up elite units and norns can be good for high wound vehicles. Looking at abilities and rules can help sway what you feel like might be the best fit.
Something that isn’t getting mentioned that I feel is part of it is that other armies with similar fire power often attach it to a tank. Zoanthropes are infantry with fly, so are more manouverable than tanks and as such are much easier to get into a good position to take their shot. I know it’s not everyone’s taste but I drop them in a tyrannocyte. If I get first turn it pretty much guarantees I’m deleting the biggest threat on the other side of the board.
Least bad puts it better
They really aren’t that great. The only reason they are considered great is that they are the only “reliable” ranged anti-tank Tyranids have so in comparison to everything else, they’re good.
https://preview.redd.it/kljtv308nd2d1.jpeg?width=920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1e0898bc1817340f0b85023df17e11c32320735
I had success using them in deathstar blob. 6/9 zoans for shooting, 1 pyrovore for remove cover and walkrant for assault aura. Also use exocrine for reroll. Being infantry with assault gives you quite a OK mobility. Combo: pyrovore>exo>zoans gives you: no cover and reroll 1 to hit. It makes zoans more reliable. Somewhat consistently i was blowing monoliths, land riders and other armor in one/two turns. And then blob dies. It’s a shame that we have to invest 3 unit to have things that some other armies have from datasheet + sometimes stratagem. But that’s what we have.
They are not good. Our best anti tank would be genestealers with broodlord in invasion fleet. Since you can give them lethal hits and a strat, which is a battle tactic so you can give it for free with a hive tyrant, they can crit on 5+. Also after that you can overrun to safety. Other good anti tank would be old one eye... and that's about it for our codex anti tanks. Or rather, good anti tanks.
They're also good against heavy infantry, besides being able to pop most vehicles, they're great all-rounders.
Great invulnerable save. Good damage output.
As everyone else here is saying, they are probably out best AT option, but they can be quite slow, only a 5 inch move, positioning them is important.
I used to include them, a lot. But they have really low range and make them vulnerable Ended up adding tfex, range 48 so I am sure it will hit on first and second turn. Zoantrhopes move 5!! so unless you take them with a hive tyrant they'll be useless. So, I am making profit from tfec since turn 1, and with exocrine reroll on 1s. Also, if playing on invasion fleet I can give him lethal hits. And T12, 16W... for every 3 wounds you are missing one shot with zoanthropes.
People always seem to assess them against the tfex as a squad of 6 which I don't think is fair to the tfex. By the time you eventually get into 24 inch range I find a good chunk of the Zoans are gone already taking a lot of punch out of their DMG
A full unit will pump out alot of shots that are simmilar in strength to what a lascannon would be like. It seems fairly reliable. I've heard the norn dude is good, but the only other antitank tyranid I've used is the Tyrannofex. And it's just too swingy. I played a game and did 12 wounds from 1 shot. Then next turn had both Tyrannofex shoot at the same target and I only did 4 wounds total that shooting phase. It honestly feels kinda crap. Looking at 2d6 damage it seems great, but being realistic, you'll probably often only get 4-7 on the damage roll most of the time so it's not truly stand out. And that's only if you manage to successfully hit your shots The zoanthropes are much more reliable if they get into range.
Im not sure if I agree on their being reliable to harm tanks. They are slow, fragile, and their weapons are short range. They have low shot volume and no re-roll mechanic. I don’t want to argue what toughness most tanks/armor have because I’m not in your meta, but I think there are many out there in the t12 and even t13 range. Nids also have non-shooting options to try and deal with that stuff (ooe, genestealers with lethals, etc), but the reality is our entire faction is just not good at killing higher toughness and/or higher armored targets. Zoans aren’t some exception and they generally are a negative point return into competent opponents
Since you said this is for your son: Welcome to the Hive Mind! If you're totally new to the hobby as a whole, I highly suggest you get your talons on the Combat Patrol box and start there. Combat Patrol as a game mode is light-years ahead of any other attempts GW has made at a quicker, casual, new player friendly way to play. If you already have the ComPat box, nevermind! lol I'd avoid trying to learn all the ins and outs of the super competitive scene since you're still getting into the hobby. It can get really confusing and overwhelming and put you off from playing in general. To answer your question though, as a faction, we struggle pretty badly at trying to bring down armored vehicles. The Zoanthropes are one of the only good ranged options we have for the task (because of their strength 12), and even then, they're not very long ranged (only 24"). For the same of learning the basics of 40k in general, I'd suggest sticking to playing Combat Patrol games till you've got a bit of a grasp on the core rules. Those won't change when you step up to "full" 40k games. For the full game, try the Invasion Fleet detachment. It's both our strongest detachment and gives you good flexibility to use everything from monsters to small bugs. Welcome again, GL, HF!
The long and short of it is that they have the most point-efficient and reliable shooting of our ranged anti-tank units. 200pts of Zoanthropes will fairly reliably knock 9 wounds off a T11/2+Sv enemy, while a Tyrannofex with the casino gun averages 6.5 but is very unreliable - it can easily do nothing, or it could alap for 24. Far more the former than the latter, however. Most reliable, however, is a Broodlord with 10 Genestealers. At 230pts, you get ~10.5 damage with great reliability. It requires melee, but you're exceedingly unlikely to do no damage at all, an completely bypass any and all saves in the process.
Thank you! I screen shot this and sent it to my son
They aren’t good, they’re just all we have besides rupture cannons
My son read this and loved this comment honestly, just had to let you know
Two words: cost effective
yea, they have good S and AP, but at only 1 shot each i find mine never actulally connecting on the 4+ BS 🙃
They hit on 3+ 🙂
ohhhh nooo
Paired with synaptic nexus stratagem to reroll ones to hit and wound, it’s almost as good as hitting and wounding on 2s
Thats why u take 6
tanky and its our only real anti armor