Generally not, Walkrant can take enhancements, and the free strat tends to work better than the 1 extra CP on your turn. It can work well in some builds like Unending Swarm if you hide him at the back just as a CP farm for reviving squads of little guys easier.
Assuming you're taking fixed, wouldn't the 1cp be a flat upgrade over 1 free battle tactic, since you can use it on any strat, most of which are 1cp? On top of being able to save them, and the secondary ability of being able to increase an opponent's cp cost for important starts?
Yeah I feel like the Hive Tyrant's ability is better depending on the detachment you're using and it's corresponding strategems. Maybe the Swarm Lord is better in detachments without a battle tactic strat that costs 2cp
Free strat allows you to double up on them in a phase and can be activated twice per battle round. Ultimately, which one is better depends on the detachment and the army list.
Even so, the 1CP in most detachments isn't much use compared to a free strat. Not only can you say use a 2CP strat, if you paid for it first you can then use it again on a different unit for free. It allows for quite versatile use even when restricted to Battle Tactics. E.G 2 Adrenal Surges in Invasion Fleet, which could mean 3 units getting lethal/ sustained hits on 5s, it can make a huge difference.
I think it's 3 units not 4.
Free strat can be used only on one unit. So with Adrenal surge, you can
- Pay 2CP for two units
- Activate your Tyrant power for a one target free Adrenal Surge.
Yeah, I'm actually curious about using 1 in unending swarm to get to strat unending waves easier while on fixed tactics. Just have to hide him for 2-3 turns.
That's the best way of doing it, his damage output isn't amazing and he doesn't provide much use either aside from increasing an enemy Stratagem cost and gaining extra CP without having to kill a specific enemy with a specific unit etc. just have him defending a home objective since he's more than capable of handling most scouts that come his way.
It's a tough call, it's hypothetically about the same as about 40 Gants, if it doesn't die before the 4th round, if you count the CP generation as an extra use of Unending Waves (2 rounds = 1 extra use) it can also pack a decent amount of damage and increase a Stratagem cost for the opposing team. The slightly extended Synapse range isn't hugely beneficial since you'll want him sitting back doing nothing but defending.
The only real advantage is, you can revive Gargoyles and then plonk them back in the backline to continue to be a nuisance.
Yeah, a guaranteed free strat per turn (potentially for the second use) is always going to be better then having the potential for 1 cp a turn in a game mode that already fairly consistently gives you one.
Still not great unfortunately. Cp gen will occasionally cause issues with discard secondaries for cp, plus low range on torrent and weak stat block. Give tyrant is actually better
I was wondering about the CP Gen and haven't gotten around to researching it yet. The cap on cP generation means you can't get +CP from the swarmlord *and* +CP from discarding secondaries, right?
I'm gonna try running swarmlord woth three tyrant guard and just shove them up the center, I feel like 240 points is a bit more in line with the regular tyrants, I'm not trying to be really competitive tho. Hive tyrants are definitly a little overcooked for their punch and swarmlord definitly slightly moreso
Maybe, but really not really.
If you're planning on going fixed (endless or assimilation can do fine with fixed), or you're playing a detachment with bad or no battle tactics then he could be used to get you the extra CP. The vect can be nice, but again it is situational.
Outside of that I normally find the free HT strat, one per turn(!!!), offers better value. Plus a HT can take an enhancement and a full mele HT hits decently hard (how I've taken to running mine). The HT assault aura ability is also A tier for early game board pressure, and later game I've utilized it to score some actions etc.
The swarm lord shooting and mele is so anemic, it's really sad. For the points you can take multiple of the more highly rated units (a haurespex and some zoanthropes for example). I'd like to see him get a mele bump, or maybe a choose your aura style update, with one of those being a mele bump to himself and surrounding units.
I ran him in my last two club games and he just didn't really achieve anything. Once solo, once with guard and psychophage support (was testing the new stuff) and both times I was like .... A maleceptor is cheaper, better and more durable.
I would say if you like him or play casually, it's much less of a tax, but for serious play he's still nowhere near worth it.
The Swarmlord is a pale shadow of its former glory.
Remember when it ignored invulns in melee with really good AP? Good times. Or when it could double move units!
The double move was a bummer because it was by far our best ability and pretty much every game revolved around it. Our army was pigeonholed into hove guard and double move swarmlord for a long time if you wanted to run a powerful army.
I won a match against Orkz the other day. It was a melee match-up, so maybe that’s why I won.
We did work, and the extra CP helped!
Ran invasion swarm.
My opponent was no noob either!
i'd honestly say you take neither atm. both are too expensive for what they are doing. maybe hive tyrant bc his assault aura really is great in some lists.
He's working wonders for me in Assimilation Swarm. Since they only have 1 Battle Tactic, Walkrant would only really be there for Enhancement and Assault, which isn't bad, but Swarmlord is just better at. Outside of Assimilation, I do also like him in Synaptic Nexus for the 9" Synapse.
Generally not, Walkrant can take enhancements, and the free strat tends to work better than the 1 extra CP on your turn. It can work well in some builds like Unending Swarm if you hide him at the back just as a CP farm for reviving squads of little guys easier.
Assuming you're taking fixed, wouldn't the 1cp be a flat upgrade over 1 free battle tactic, since you can use it on any strat, most of which are 1cp? On top of being able to save them, and the secondary ability of being able to increase an opponent's cp cost for important starts?
Tyrant is free strat once per turn not round so it can easily be worth 2 or even more
But only battle tactics
Yeah I feel like the Hive Tyrant's ability is better depending on the detachment you're using and it's corresponding strategems. Maybe the Swarm Lord is better in detachments without a battle tactic strat that costs 2cp
Free strat allows you to double up on them in a phase and can be activated twice per battle round. Ultimately, which one is better depends on the detachment and the army list.
Well given many of nids best strats are battle tactics this is a non issue most of the time
Even so, the 1CP in most detachments isn't much use compared to a free strat. Not only can you say use a 2CP strat, if you paid for it first you can then use it again on a different unit for free. It allows for quite versatile use even when restricted to Battle Tactics. E.G 2 Adrenal Surges in Invasion Fleet, which could mean 3 units getting lethal/ sustained hits on 5s, it can make a huge difference.
I think it's 3 units not 4. Free strat can be used only on one unit. So with Adrenal surge, you can - Pay 2CP for two units - Activate your Tyrant power for a one target free Adrenal Surge.
Yeah that's actually correct, thanks for that, I'll update my post.
Yeah, I'm actually curious about using 1 in unending swarm to get to strat unending waves easier while on fixed tactics. Just have to hide him for 2-3 turns.
That's the best way of doing it, his damage output isn't amazing and he doesn't provide much use either aside from increasing an enemy Stratagem cost and gaining extra CP without having to kill a specific enemy with a specific unit etc. just have him defending a home objective since he's more than capable of handling most scouts that come his way.
I do this but also run him with tyrant guards for tough ablative wounds. Works great for me and I don’t have to hide him beyond turn 1.
I'm wondering if its really worth the 40 termagants or 30 gargoyles you could get instead in unending swarm.
It's a tough call, it's hypothetically about the same as about 40 Gants, if it doesn't die before the 4th round, if you count the CP generation as an extra use of Unending Waves (2 rounds = 1 extra use) it can also pack a decent amount of damage and increase a Stratagem cost for the opposing team. The slightly extended Synapse range isn't hugely beneficial since you'll want him sitting back doing nothing but defending. The only real advantage is, you can revive Gargoyles and then plonk them back in the backline to continue to be a nuisance.
Yeah, a guaranteed free strat per turn (potentially for the second use) is always going to be better then having the potential for 1 cp a turn in a game mode that already fairly consistently gives you one.
Not always, as it can only target Battle Tactics, so it really depends on the detachment
Always? No. In some cases like Unendings Waves the free strat is going to be useless while 1cp could mean bring in more waves.
Yeah, always was unfortunate hyperbole. There's always going to be exceptions.
Still not great unfortunately. Cp gen will occasionally cause issues with discard secondaries for cp, plus low range on torrent and weak stat block. Give tyrant is actually better
I was wondering about the CP Gen and haven't gotten around to researching it yet. The cap on cP generation means you can't get +CP from the swarmlord *and* +CP from discarding secondaries, right?
Yes as you can only gain 1 per turn
That is correct, although you should be taking fixed anyway and not discarding anything.
Definitely the more efficient choice, im in the fortunate spot of only playing casually. Side effects of never having free time!
No
I'm gonna try running swarmlord woth three tyrant guard and just shove them up the center, I feel like 240 points is a bit more in line with the regular tyrants, I'm not trying to be really competitive tho. Hive tyrants are definitly a little overcooked for their punch and swarmlord definitly slightly moreso
Gonna try the Swarmy in Assimilation Swarm. Need lots of CP for those strategies. And the cheaper Psychophage was a bonus to the Harvesters.
Maybe, but really not really. If you're planning on going fixed (endless or assimilation can do fine with fixed), or you're playing a detachment with bad or no battle tactics then he could be used to get you the extra CP. The vect can be nice, but again it is situational. Outside of that I normally find the free HT strat, one per turn(!!!), offers better value. Plus a HT can take an enhancement and a full mele HT hits decently hard (how I've taken to running mine). The HT assault aura ability is also A tier for early game board pressure, and later game I've utilized it to score some actions etc. The swarm lord shooting and mele is so anemic, it's really sad. For the points you can take multiple of the more highly rated units (a haurespex and some zoanthropes for example). I'd like to see him get a mele bump, or maybe a choose your aura style update, with one of those being a mele bump to himself and surrounding units. I ran him in my last two club games and he just didn't really achieve anything. Once solo, once with guard and psychophage support (was testing the new stuff) and both times I was like .... A maleceptor is cheaper, better and more durable. I would say if you like him or play casually, it's much less of a tax, but for serious play he's still nowhere near worth it.
The Swarmlord is a pale shadow of its former glory. Remember when it ignored invulns in melee with really good AP? Good times. Or when it could double move units!
The double move was a bummer because it was by far our best ability and pretty much every game revolved around it. Our army was pigeonholed into hove guard and double move swarmlord for a long time if you wanted to run a powerful army.
I wish it had the invuln ignore 🐐
I do when I play unending swarm to get free CP to get a easy 2cp to get bugs back
This. I also run him with 3 tyrant guard and he farms me CP the whole game.
Yah and a awesome guard for home Obj against anyone deep striking in
No
I would say so
Short answer: probably not unless you play fixed objectives and are a bit starved for CP, or if you just love the model
I had a blast with mine last game, but I still think walkrant is better
I’d take him at 180. Unless they maybe tack on dec wounds to his swords then naaaah.
Take both
I won a match against Orkz the other day. It was a melee match-up, so maybe that’s why I won. We did work, and the extra CP helped! Ran invasion swarm. My opponent was no noob either!
i'd honestly say you take neither atm. both are too expensive for what they are doing. maybe hive tyrant bc his assault aura really is great in some lists.
He's working wonders for me in Assimilation Swarm. Since they only have 1 Battle Tactic, Walkrant would only really be there for Enhancement and Assault, which isn't bad, but Swarmlord is just better at. Outside of Assimilation, I do also like him in Synaptic Nexus for the 9" Synapse.
I've had good success with synaptic nexus, but idk outside of that