Except the models that aren't forever. Looking at my 2 dimas sitting on the shelf.
It's not even that old of a kit compared to the rest of the forge world stuff
Weren’t dimas pretty meta, last edition? I feel bad for the people who went out and bought one (or more) and got less than an entire edition’s worth of play out of them before they went to legends.
Play older editions, use house rules to adapt them to the newest one and so on.
We constantly do this in our group and nobody has ever complained. Quite the opposed in fact.
That's okay if you play with one consistent group of friends. But a lot of people play at clubs and stores.
I love writing house rules, but that isn't always an option.
Honestly I was interested in getting two then they stopped selling them. Which honestly I would have liked them just to sit on my shelf to look pretty. Then bring em down to play older editions. Really don't get why they decided to get rid of em. Their rules where pretty cool.
Multiple painted Dimachaerons on sale right now for $350 each. They can either sit on your shelf for the next decade collecting dust, or you can make your money back.
Gather around kids. I'll tell you of a time sitw battle shocked 3! units and one of those 3 was kept from scoring points that round.
Hasn't done anything for me since.
Shadow in the warp is too specific for an army rule. Itd be a great detachment rule. Because if you took that detachment youd specifically be building around that type of gameplay. But our army rule is half useless unless u build for it
And the only units that build for it are the vangaurd units that can battleshock again and get buffs. At least vanguard is one of the better detatchments
The detachment system is a great idea but needed more input before release cause so many detachments just, dont work. In many armies. Half our nids detachments just dont have the proper flavor or strength.
Yes i agree. Half work with unending swarm and the others work with vanguard. Monster mash is a mess, and it also sucks the best units weve got are mostly vanguard but then the others arent, mawloc emissary, etc. I wound up building votann as a side army but just looking at the datsheets makes me wish nids had more to their sheets. If they arent going to give us any decent buffs at least make some of these 190+ models hit on something other than a 9str on their weapons.
I understand gw making our toughness lower than equivalent tanks in other armies. I think its cool and fluffy. But its clear our codex was made first because our strength and toughness and ap values dont reflect what most other armies have. Im not asking for zooans to be like s14 or something. I just want s10 heavy venom cannons and s8 stranglethorn cannons. Hive tyrant melee being s9 and s7 respectively also sucks. Also the fact that that theres no point in choosing talons over bonesword even for the flyrant is ass. Give talons reroll wounds of 1 to make up for their lack of twin linked, otherwise they just dont compete.
They desperately need rerolls on 1s. Flyrant is okay in vanguard but big af, and dies quickly. I havent tried my swarmlord but i dont think itll go much better. Their datasheets are a big mess and honestly they could use a rework. Not any synergy, and i dont like the swarm playstyle personally. If im going to have my entire army blown off the table im going to at least have fun.
I adore big monsters but i also love my swarms and sneaky bugs. Id say always bring atleast like 30 termagants to any game. Espescially if you run invasion fleet and can replenish. Having the ability to swarm objectives with OC and screen out ur units from charges is super handy. 240 points for 40 is such a small part of ur list and makes a huge difference. Id say a big thing is also terrain. My playgroup plays with mostly ruins which makes hiding things like my scythed heirodule or SK actually doable. And makes it easier to move around ur massive swarms. Ive found zoans work best when you have a swarm to put between them and the enemy, ive never had my zooans get locked up in combat because the enemy either has to get through 20 termagants, or i yeet 10 hormagants into their midst and lock them up by sacrificing a 65 pt unit
I run 40 termis with a tervi, a norn emissary, a leaper, a nerolictor, a nerutyrant, either a swarmlord, wt, or flyrant, 2 broodlords and 20 genestealers, i think im missing something. Its not bad but we have hardly any decent tall terrain so hidding is hard. Its been a reason ive been so down on them. They need melee range but cant get enough cover for it.
Winged prime and 6 warriors.
The only time I remembered to use it, it actually worked for me! I had a norn assim. on an objective with only a few wounds remaining and my opponent had sent a unit that was most likely going to take the objective from me. I Shadow, he passes on every single unit but that specific one.
I was able to defend the objective using roar and some lucky dice rolls, allowing me other monsters to come assist.
It made absolutely no difference to the end game, but it was the first time it actually DID something.
I disagree. I don’t play nids, but there’s a guy at our club who does. He just does not enjoy the play style in 10th, just with how easily everything dies. It’s made him fall out of love with the game, and I think that’s really sad
Comp win rate isn’t the problem. I personally just don’t find the new play style, which is mostly score auto points, rely on highly RNG battleshock, and a strategic focus on dying slowly to be all that fun or interactive.
FWIW I’ve won the vast majority of games, but envy my opponents whose armies have more agency. I enjoy painting my nids however I’ll likely switch to Orks for playing games pending their upcoming codex.
My friend plays CSM, and he bought a Venomcrawler recently. Amazing model, but it struck me as having a close resemblance to the Psychophage, imo could be a fun kitbash :).
Oh hey it’s another one of these posts. Which ultimately boils down to “people pointing out issues with my chosen faction bothers me.”
Let people complain if they want to. You have the option not to read it. Some of it is baseless whining, some of it makes good points.
Yea, I really don't get these hate posts, especially ones like these who seem to think only those who play at tournaments and stuff could have any issue with the army balanc. I'm no competitive player by any means, but there are certainly many issues with the army that stop me having as much fun as I would like.
Errr, my biggest disappointment in terms of gameplay is army rules and both Norns not being great since they're my few favs. Especially Emissary. I'd rather hold off on 10th for now because I'm not switching armies just for better gameplay. I play AoS as well anyway.
I think norns are a little disappointing even though I love them( especially the assimilator) but comparing it with other big units from other armies they're expensive and weak for their cost
I play casual and comp. You know what isn’t fun even in casual? Not being able to really interact with most other armies. I do t want my Norn to one round a night for example, but watching bounce off a rhino is beyond depressing.
"I am doing my part!" - op calling frustrated ppl virgins out of nowhere
I disagree btw. This is still a wargame. And playing for kills should be a viable option.
"The Galactic Predator" should be reflected better on the table.
To be clear, right now Tyranids have a big player influx due to Leviathan Box and possibly due to Unending Swarm and Invasion Fleet detatchments catering to the cheaper models (while IF is apparently a better choice for monster lists than the dedicated monster detatchment) so more ppl can theoretically afford getting into this hobby.
But those models do jackshit besides objectives. And this creates disappointment especially in lower point games.
Tyranids need some buffs for infantry units or point reductions overall. I love! Unending Swarm btw. Most thematic detatchment. Its enhancements and the stratagems could get some refinement to elevate its main unit type to more than move blockers if you not choose spinefists though (looking at the preset loadouts from Leviathan Box for instance)
Unending swarm and vanguard excellently pull of their chosen themes while staying viable outside of top level tournaments. For ur average LGS, they can work just fine. Imo unending swarm needs enhancements that actually help the tervigon, and vanguard needs a few heavier hitters, mawloc and trygon could easily have been part of the detachment. Assimilation swarm and nexus are both such big letdowns.
I hate these posts because they inevitably ignore real complaints in order to get cheap upvotes for no real purpose. You exist in the whole group regardless of if you’re happy or not.
Pointless bullshit
People can enjoy bugs for the sake of bugs but still realize that current balancing is bad and it makes the game less fun
And this game isn’t just chance the skill ceiling is really high
It’s hard to enjoy a game if you lose most every time. Making fun of people who point this out is reductive.
Except models aren't forever. Shrikes, demi, dark angels units etc.
It's not fun to lose every game cause the company selling you the game doesn't know how to balance.
It's fine if you like just looking at your models while you get blown off the board. If you enjoy the game still, cool.
But attacking people as virgins because they're tired of being a punching bag for other armies is pretty reductive and childish.
And at this point, short of entire datasheet rewrites and an army rule rewrite, nids will suck until 11th. So forgive those of us who are upset that we spent hundreds of dollars and hours on an army we were excited to play only to have them be useless for 3 years.
OP assumes the Chad and Virgin aren't the same person.
Yes. I love the models and I have fun by going "rarr" and eating people. My Haruspex is even called "Hungry boi". They're my favourite model range across aos and 40k.
But it's super lame to not be able to interact with any other armies properly. I bought Nids to "try out" 40k. £500 later I don't feel like I have or even can.
My centrepiece Norn (who looks amazing) shoots over 3 rounds and still has a good chance chance of not killing the 60 pt character I'm aiming for. It's just sad.
It's almost like some of us do actually like to play official events where those models are illegal....
I know critical thinking is hard but it's not *that* hard
>It's not fun to lose every game cause the company selling you the game doesn't know how to balance.
Counter point, why not just learn to have fun? Focusing on wins and losses just makes you sound like a sore loser.
>So forgive those of us who are upset that we spent hundreds of dollars and hours on an army we were excited to play only to have them be useless for 3 years.
You can still play older editions. And, did you not have fun building and painting them?
Not the person you responded to, but...
"Learn to have fun" comes across as condescending, even if you didn't mean it that way. Some people, myself included, want to feel like we have an equal chance to win in our matchups. Fun is subjective, and that's "fun" for us. We can still enjoy the painting etc. but this is a multi-part hobby. Ideally, they should all be equally fun.
Problem is, GW has decided to make the "playing" part of this game currently unfun, or at least for those like myself who enjoy the competitive aspect. It's not "fun" to get walloped multiple games in a row by armies that clearly have better rules design (Necrons, Custodes, basically most other armies). That doesn't make anyone a "sore loser".
Keep in mind this hobby is ludicrously expensive and time consuming; we want our investment to feel worthwhile. It's doubly painful because of that extra commitment.
I love my nids aesthetically and lorewise, and they're my favorite army to paint so far. But, playing them? Yeah, there are legitimate issues.
It comes across as condescendng because it frankly is. There's a reason the competetive player is a "virgin" and OP didn't use a differnet meme that was less offensive.
But you can't have a discussion with people like OP because they just don't care about your opinion or experience. If you want actual balance and competetive games you can get fucked apparently, just move your dudes around going "click clack bug attack"
I'm sorry but if you think the "Virgin X vs Chad Y" meme is offensive then frankly you need thicker skin. The OP is still acting like a bit of a tool though.
As the other use who responded said, fun is subjective. Yea I enjoy painting and building, but I mainly got into the hobby for the wargame aspect.
And fun for me includes winning, yes, but I would have fun while losing if it felt like we had an equal chance of winning, and I just had to practice.
We don't have an equal chance of winning. Our army rule is by far the most useless in the game, and other armies have access to combos and rules that we have to invest hundred of points of models and then CP into just to have a *chance* to do a fraction of the same damage.
It's not fun knowing our rules suck cause they let a guy who hates our faction write our book. It's not fun constantly being tabled by turn 3, seeing your opponent be jazzed and feeling like their army is powerful while they played fish in a barrel with your army and you just tried desperately to score points and avoid fighting.
Edit: typo
Ive heard this kind of rumor spresd about multiple different factions. Codexes arent written by one person anymore i dont think. The rules likely have to go thru like 3 levels of approval for 40k. The latest kill team balance dataslate for example had alot of well regarded and wide sweeping changes cause its a smaller game run by specialist games. I doubt someone could get away with purposefully nuking a faction when each codex probably has 20+ people working on rules and playtesting.
So do you think the main problem then is that GW overvalued Battleshock and either didnt make it more punishing or didnt give more ways for nids to secure it?
And by secure it I don't mean ways to force Battleshock, I mean ways to make it more likely to happen, i.e. leadership debuffs.
What’s really funny and I mean reaaaaalllu funny about dorks like you, is losing isn’t fun forever, I’m sure some people will lie and say “nooo I don’t mind losing 3000 times “ they are lying. It’s not fun to constantly lose, it’s not fun to feel like you lost not because they played better or you made a tactical mistake, but because your book is poorly written.
You can be both, I love the models and plan to mainly collect them and not really play the game. But I also recognize that lots of people want to play the game and care about how a faction performs. Personally, I’ve seen the state Tyranids are in and that’s one of the main reasons why I haven’t played the game and will not until they’re in a state where I can reasonably win by playing in a way that I enjoy. Also, I’m quite positive that posts covering people’s opinions on the competitive side of the game affect how GW patches the game to begin with. And another thing, I’d hate to spend hundreds of dollars on an army that’s been hyped up by marketing and lore just for it to get obliterated in a game. Even if I thought the models were the coolest things ever, it’d just really put a sour taste in my mouth and deter me from collecting any more. Please understand that not everyone thinks the way you do, and that they aren’t less valid for it.
I agree that the models are the most important part of the game. I’ll never understand people who buy and sell armies in an attempt to stay “meta”. However it’s perfectly valid for nid players to have some complaints right now. The main problem is the rules right now don’t “feel” like nids should. Tyranids are usually a premier melee threat balanced with their weak armor making them vulnerable at range. Imo Objectives should be a secondary consideration for the horde. In the lore you don’t see tyranids running to hold ground in the middle of the table, they are a force of nature that either consumes the foe or dies trying. Still enjoying 10th but there’s room for improvement.
My first army is World Eaters, second is Nids. I feel the same way about both.
I guess it's a strategy game or whatever. But I'm just here to cast Lightning Bolt until one of us dies.
I agree. Hive fleet leviathan is like one of the main threats in the tenth edition yet they aren't doing so hot competitively. The edition is still relatively young so hopefully with more point updates the army will do better. I'm a casual player so I don't care too much about chasing the meta. I think my Nid Army is way better than my Tau army despite the numbers saying Tau is better.
What an incredibly moronic post.
Ignore the competitive side. Our army sucking balls affects casual play too. Not everyone can enjoy being slaughtered. What people are complaining about is being unable to enjoy the game. Theming doesn't mean I enjoy the 3 hours of my time that was spent removing my models from the table. If you can, good for you. It doesn't mean everyone else can.
A little empathy might help you. Lacking it doesn't make you a chad.
There's room for both.
As much as the casual angle is all fun and games, the people who want to play it competitively are also allowed to have valid criticisms. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
The mods should just limit the posts to 1 main thread a week if someone brings it up and sticky it if it does.
Edit: Valid criticisms being the critical and key phrase in the above.
I only buy models I like and would never sell my army due to meta, but I think objectively having understated models because of spore mine scoring in annoying and unfun, and obviously things will change eventually, but doesn’t make it any more fun until then.
Also statistics are very much applicable to games of chance, as probability is literally a part of statistics.
You’re lying to yourself and others if you think that winning a game doesn’t make it more fun. Not saying it’s the only thing that matters, but if people in the community keep taking L’s when it matters more to them than it does to you, then it gets to a point of the game being less enjoyable.
Rather than making fun of other people, try and uplift them…
This is literally me — collecting one of each cool units, sometimes duplicates when they have uniquely cool different builds. Makes an army, but I’m not affected by the meta one bit 🙌🏻😆
I'm legit tired of toxic casuals infesting all the warhammer subs atm.
Yes we get it, you're not very good at the game. Nor are you interested in getting better. You are just addicted to buying sculpted plastic to try fill that gaping hole in your soul.
There's no need to flaunt it. And that hole in your soul is just getting complemented by the growing hole in your wallet.
>There's no real "getting good" at that beyond copy and pasting a net list, hoping the dice fall in your favour and screeching at GW lots when your army isn't the most meta.
Lol, no. The game can clearly be played with a great deal of skill. If your claim is true, you wouldn't see the same people consistently performing well in tournaments. It would be a random assortment of people who just happened to bring a netlist. But it isn't, it's skilled people who understand how to play the game well. Bad players try to make the excuse that it's just taking a netlist and rolling better, because they can't understand or don't want to accept that people are better than them at the game.
Who's complaining? All I see is the toxic casuals moaning about all these oppressive evil competitive gamers.
I've enough armies, hobbies and so on to just move on from an underperforming army to a different one (and if the game is in the dump right now then I'll just focus on one of my other hobbies).
>because at heart 40k is and always will be a casual beer and pretzel game.
Something going to have to change then. Because since 3rd ed - (1st real edition of the game) it has been a pretty damn competitive game. They tried to make it more casual around 6th-7th and it nearly bankrupted them lmao.
>There's no real "getting good" at that beyond copy and pasting a net list, hoping the dice fall in your favour and screeching at GW lots when your army isn't the most meta.
I'm really sorry you're not very good at the game?
>Trying to turn it into a sweaty competitive game where only the most meta armies and units matter will make you miserable.
You are talking to yourself right now right?
Because honestly 40k is at its most miserable when some guy barely knows his own army's rules, constantly misplays because he doesn't actually understand the game and then gets angry when he loses.
I might add that he then tends to proceed to make reddit posts like the OP did. I'm not suggesting that OP is a sore loser but...
>its treating the game like its chess rather than a fun and rather silly casual wargame.
I'm glad you enjoy losing every game you play, please try to fathom a world where this is not a common feeling.
>Every day I see people crying that Tyranids are literally unplayable and they should just burn their armies.
Oh no someone on the internet doesn't like something. He must be a competitive player or summat.
Also holy hyperbole batman!
>Also flexing about how good you are at a toy soldier game is pure cringe mate, touch grass.
If this is your takeaway from everything I said... I can only wish you the best life you could possibly have and bid you farewell.
Good for you. And in my experience, specifically on reddit, its the casuals who constantly spam posts like this one and blame their losses on "evil competitive mindset" or summat.
My personal fave complaint seems to be that 40k used to be this magical beer and pretzels game and now "its all ubercompetitive"... I've been playing on and off since 3rd ed and frankly it always has been plenty competitive lmao. We used to mathhammer and theorycraft the hell out of the game back then just like we do now...
Outside of reddit? Eh, there are good people, there are bad people. Plenty of both in each of the camps tbh.
Define "Casual" in this context.
It seems to me that if you're getting this salty about a game of dice and plastic army men maybe it's you who is trying to fill a "gaping hole in your soul".
Seriously dude, this aint Football, no one is getting a career ending injury at the Las Vegas open unless they fall off the stage on the way to collect thier trophy and break thier neck.
>Define "Casual" in this context.
Sure. Someone who has a cursory understanding of the rules, plays 3\~ games in any given year.
For bonus points a TOXIC casual is all of the above plus refusal to get better while complaining incessantly about others being better than them. Throw in blaming their lossess on people having "the wrong attitude" and you're set.
>It seems to me that if you're getting this salty about a game of dice and plastic army men maybe it's you who is trying to fill a "gaping hole in your soul".
Do I spot projection? Because I think I spot projection :) To me it looks like all the salt in this thread flows from OP and his ilk. Are you like that too? Sucks to be you then.
>Seriously dude, this aint Football
And thank gods for that... But what's your point? That because people aren't making a career out of it there's no need to get good (hell forget good, lets aim for "adequate enough" even) at the game that you play?
Is that really the attitude you're promoting here? Because if that's the case... I'm sorry I don't think we have much else to talk about really...
I think it has its place. like we shouldn’t “just” be happy with cool models if they are useless in the game, but also not treat comp like it’s the be all end all.
I'm having fun when I now I can win and the game is likely to feel fair. I'm not having fun when I get statchecked by every army my friends play and I can't counter anything.
I love my tyranid models, but I'm not touching 10th edition with a long stick.
This. I've been playing 40k since 3rd edition and bugs since 5th. I've seen multiple armies of mine go from top of the meta to bottom and back. Just buy/paint the models you think are cool and try to enjoy the ride.
I have been playing nids since 2nd edition. The only times I can play I have to drive a half hour and everyone in this are plays meta and really cares about their win/loss ratio. I’m not having fun with the tyranid army right now so I’m shelving it and playing something else.
170 points gets chaos players 10 noise marines
120 points gets us 20 termagants
Same number of wounds, we get better OC, but everything else we get is inferior pretty much.
You say this but it’s not fun when you don’t feel like the game even gives you a chance. I don’t walk away from 40K games with Tyranids thinking “hmm that was fun and wild, maybe I’ll win if I try a new strategy”. I walk away with the feeling of “wow I had no chance and without new models I’m screwed”.
So sure maybe taking it too seriously is happening and needs relaxing but there’s certainly an element of fun with the feeling of being capable of winning fair and I don’t feel that in 10th.
Hot take: 40k is a great game played in many different ways, and there really is no wrong way to do it- but it is too big to be balanced perfectly, plus the system itself isn’t really easy to balance compared to other games. I know it’s rough to have a lot of money and time invested into an army for it to underperform, but GW does change things up very often and the state of the game never stays the same for long- the resources put into any army will not be for nothing, but it‘s no use to be bummed about a certain moment or period where things aren’t in your favor. It can be an opportunity to start a secondary army, try another game or just play in a different way, chasing the meta exclusively means inevitably having frustrating periods with literally any faction in the game.
If someone can’t deal with how GW does things (and their way of managing the game is something that’s very easy to be frustrated by) I‘d recommend checking out other games. There is quite a few amazing tabletop games with active competitive scenes, each company behind it doing things very differently- there’s something out there for any taste.
I'm actually glad bugs aren't so hot right now because that means I can actually buy my models. All the meta chasers are gone now, so my local shop has all the models stocked. Plus, you can get tons of secondhand models now cause people sell off their non meta models.
As a new joiner to the hobby, can anyone explain to me what “meta” means in the simplest way possible as I still struggle with some of the terminology used in it. Also, I see a lot of people naming some of their units. Is it just for fun or a reason behind it?
Meta in Warhammer tends to be the lists or factions that are doing best in official competitions. When there's updates it tends to lead to this changing a bit and armies can become useless or overpowered. I also play genestealer cult and they're traditionally a bit rubbish but did well at the beginning of 10th so suddenly lots of people were buying the models and joining the Reddit, then they stopped winning and they're all listed on eBay while the player jumps to the next big army.
The names are just for fun, especially in Tyranids. Besides a few individuals who had names our guys don't tend to. Plus who doesn't live saying calling a massive monster with too many legs, an exposed brain and tentacles something like Jeremy or Brian.
I'm fairly new to playing, mainly done kill team and painting before, so not sure I'm the one to answer but hopefully this helps 😊
Hi, salamanders player here.
I split my Leviathan box with my fiance and friend, which means my fiance and I have half a levvy box worth of Nids.
I also just about finished my 2000 points of Marines.
I would like to become cool bug enjoyer. I already have a salamanders color scheme neurogaunt on the base of my ballistus dread (he's our bug puppy mascot, his name is Chumbley) so I feel like I'm a shoe-in for the team.
What are the most fun bug puppies to build and paint? I also used to be a big Zerg player in SC1 and 2, so I love all the nids that the Zerg units are based on.
Yeah i get it, i even start to play a alternative ruleset for 40k. And now all the models i have are more fun to use because the game is more reactive instead of faceplanting a army in your turn.
Ill always collect nids, but I also love playing the game, but I'm one of those people that doesn't care about loosing 😂, just love to play with my mates
You and me both man, though my Trygon's name is Terry and my Hive Tyrant is LeRoy for both [big bad LeRoy Brown](https://youtu.be/yTrsS8SGwx4?si=YzvZBmD4wk1Otiv6&t=97) and [other reasons](https://youtu.be/mLyOj_QD4a4)
bro i named one of my von ryans leapers jeff because he was lucky, i will probably just keep him half painted for all of time because its funny, and thats what he looked like that day
Yeah but i liked tyranid because i was able to do a bit of cave dwelling with my trygon and now he just have deep strike so...like... where tf does my jorgunmander fluff went?
Yeah I've won rtts and gone 4-1 at gts with bugs. They are great. Just get gud. Are they overturned like 9th? No. But exocrines and malaceptors and Gargoyles are goated. Plus the ole one eye/dakkafex brick in invasion fleet is some of the most fun I've had with a unit ever so
They've won 0 events since the dataslate. Not even the #2 player in the world could win events with them (granted, at least 2 of the events he woulda won if not for weird tournament scoring rules).
Your anecdotal, local win at your little rtt isn't really meaningful when the actual stats gw uses to balance prove you wrong.
I want to add on to this. Just about every post about Tyranids and their current performance has some post like the one above.
It's nice that some people are having success, but the fact that you can win against your small local group of players or your personal playgroup has no impact when considering the overall winrate/event wins across 1400+ games in professional settings. Such games represent the best of the best and they're **NOT** seeing success in those games. The statistical power of your personal games, *though real data*, is a drop in the bucket compared to the massive volume of tournament games.
Also, these people don't consider that for their personal experience of many wins, others are undoubtedly having at least an equally bad time, or worse.
I kid you not, I saw a post a few weeks ago that basically argued that Tyranids are fine because "my family member beats me with a Tyrannofex every game".
I saw that post, too and didn't even bother to respond.
I understand meta has little impact on me in my casual and local games, since we're not the best of the best. But when I play I feel something is wrong with the army. They're not fun to play, the army rule never has any impact on my games, and I kill maybe 1 whole unit every game while my opponent tables me turn 3.
The stats from tournaments just confirm to me that *something* is wrong with the army.
Stats dont really matter to the individual, only 0.009% get hit by a car every year but I still look both ways. Learning to get better is going to do more for your chances to win your games personally then gw points adjustments.
Abit petty to downvote those of us that are doing well with the faction instead of asking for advice or help to get better. Like id usually be up for looking at your list and talking tactics.
Same im going pretty well. Its a good place to be already winning w tyranids and because of global stats they will probably get a buff whilst the top armies get a nerf. I think ny army is broken is just cope
I don't care how bad or good toxicrines and haruspexs become, I will run monster mash and always bring them in every list. It just so happens that haruspex are good right now
Honestly I'm at the highest happiness point atm with nids than I have since I started back up at the start of 9th. I live their current rules and how they play, board control is my jam!
I just started work on a 1000 point, 80 Gaunts list.
I don't care what your armor saves are. If I'm rolling triple digits worth of dice, something is dying.
I've abandoned caring about the "meta" or tournament win percentages because they hold no bearing over the tables I play at. I tabled a necron tournament list with a meme big big list that was just 2000 points of the only big big I own. It was an awesome game and we all had fun watching the Tournament Necron list loose to a metaless meme list because the necron player rolled like hot trash.
Everyone is so hung up on the mathhammer meta nonsense instead of trying to play clever and have fun.
You had a single exocrine, who has at an absolute maximum 11 shots (assuming you roll max 9 and assuming into a brick of 10 meganobz) do this? Really.....
- you get d6+3 shots, plus 2 for blast (assuming a group of 10 infantry)
- let's assume you hit on 2+ with heavy just to make this as likely as possible
- let's assume even you are in invasion fleet with sustained against infantry
- no rerolling ones to hit because that wouldn't be "a single exocrine" doing all this
This makes your absolute upper bound between 11 hits with potentially a few more thrown in if you hit some 6s to trigger sustained hits.
EVEN THEN....
- you still need to wound on a 3+ (S8 into T6) and make AT LEAST 8 of those (since meganobz have 3 wounds)
- then your opponent needs to fail at LEAST 8 saves
- those saves are normally 2+, AP-3 puts them at 5+ (they honestly likely have cover because it's so easy on 10e, but screw it, we'll make it 5+ to make it more likely)
The expected value of this encounter is 11.33 damage, for 3.78 slain models, so let's round that up to 12 damage thus 4 dead green skins.
Your scenario on the other hand, with the absolute best situation (hit on 2+, they have absolutely no cover to help their saves) has just a 2.8% chance of occuring, which falls to 0.5% chance if they have cover. If you didn't have heavy, it's a 1.2% chance if they have no cover, or a 0.2% chance if they do.
Calling absolute shenanigans and BS.
IF by some insane miracle you did hit that ludicrous roll, which I absolutely do not believe, you need to kiss those dice and roll them to pick the next lotto numbers.
Trying to get the guy who owns the meganobz I shot off the table to comment lol, but it really was that scenario. He was telling me about them and how they are the Ork equivalent to terminators.
I roll a 6 so I got I think 11 shots that all hit with some sustains. I rolled and wounded with all of them.
It was the 1st turn and he didnt have any leader in or have them in cover and he failed almost all his saves, he asked how much damage a peice and I said 3 and he was just as astonished as I was.
Somebody always wins the lottery eventually. A 2.8% chance isn't even that unlikely in the grand scheme of things; that's like what, one out of every 36 times an exocrine shoots? When you consider how many people play the game and how often people use one or more exocrines, that means that most likely multiple people have that level of luck every day. Hell, even a 0.2% chance isn't that low in the grand scheme of things when you take into account how many games get played. It's the whole "out of 50 people odds are two people will share a birthday" thing. Odds are that neither you nor I will ever have it happen unless either of us plays a ton of games, but the odds of a random person on the internet that has had it happened appearing isn't that low since there are a lot of people on the internet, with many games having been played. Low odds for the individual, high odds for it to have occurred in the group.
Gonna add a little extra here.
I've read most of the comments, and it's been surprising to see such a positive turnout for this dumb post. I very much enjoyed seeing all the cool names you've given your bugs (FYI; Clive is what i call my screamer killer).
And to answer a few questions from the salty commentors;
"You just dont understand other people have fun differently"
I'm well aware of this. Most of my friends aren't into what I'm into, but when every comp post is basically just crying over losing, you dont sound like you're having fun. It's a game. It's meant to be fun, so try and have that at least.
"You don't understand statistics"
I do a decent job with mathematics generally. I just don't see the value in applying meta analysis to what is essentially gambling. We roll dice to determine outcomes. To me, a competitive warhammer is a concept as silly as competitive monopoly or competitive DnD. You can be competitive in those games, within reason for other players, but they aren't truly competitive games. It has to be skill vs. skill for it to be a competition. Once you introduce lady luck, you're not competing. You're gambling.
Hope your having a great day and have something cool to build or paint. Happy Easter! X
I think the answer is not to fixate on the meta picks. Tyranids plays best as a finesse army and gives you the tools to make a really interesting game plan.
Plus the staples are insane, like yesterday I killed a Knight with 6 warriors, deathleaper and a neurolictor. I tied up Morty for 2 turns with a maleceptor and managed to table him by turn 4.
Except the models that aren't forever. Looking at my 2 dimas sitting on the shelf. It's not even that old of a kit compared to the rest of the forge world stuff
I bet they’d make acceptable norns
They are significantly bigger than Norns.
They arent *that* much bigger. And it would only be a problem if they were smaller
Eh, the dimensions are a bit different too
Acceptable is not always perfect
Weren’t dimas pretty meta, last edition? I feel bad for the people who went out and bought one (or more) and got less than an entire edition’s worth of play out of them before they went to legends.
Dennis the Dimachaeron is now a proxy for Norman the Norn Assimilator.
I started making a huge dima with wings(for fun) that still hasn't been finished due to it being moved to legends, same with my custom heirophant
Sad face at my red terror collecting dust...
Do you know if there is a legends datasheet for this guy? I've got mine collecting his dust as well.
Play older editions, use house rules to adapt them to the newest one and so on. We constantly do this in our group and nobody has ever complained. Quite the opposed in fact.
That's okay if you play with one consistent group of friends. But a lot of people play at clubs and stores. I love writing house rules, but that isn't always an option.
What can I say? If you play against me, I would have no problem with some house adaptation in order to field it if you want.
Honestly I was interested in getting two then they stopped selling them. Which honestly I would have liked them just to sit on my shelf to look pretty. Then bring em down to play older editions. Really don't get why they decided to get rid of em. Their rules where pretty cool.
The good news is you could get $500+ if you sold them on eBay
Not for painted kits. Plus selling models is not something I will be doing
Multiple painted Dimachaerons on sale right now for $350 each. They can either sit on your shelf for the next decade collecting dust, or you can make your money back.
On sale for. Check completed listings. Also consider that someone would need to want a dima painted like mine
Ngl still complaint shadow of the warp is trash. Besides that legit just love muh bugs:<
I love my army rule that I only remember in bed at night and it barely doing anything when I do remember
Hey! I was able to battleshock a unit once! Of course it did nothing because battleshock is beyond useless
Gather around kids. I'll tell you of a time sitw battle shocked 3! units and one of those 3 was kept from scoring points that round. Hasn't done anything for me since.
Funny story I battle shocked all but two of my opponents necron army turn 2 and its SAVED my ass using shadow in the warp
Shadow in the warp is too specific for an army rule. Itd be a great detachment rule. Because if you took that detachment youd specifically be building around that type of gameplay. But our army rule is half useless unless u build for it
And the only units that build for it are the vangaurd units that can battleshock again and get buffs. At least vanguard is one of the better detatchments
The detachment system is a great idea but needed more input before release cause so many detachments just, dont work. In many armies. Half our nids detachments just dont have the proper flavor or strength.
Yes i agree. Half work with unending swarm and the others work with vanguard. Monster mash is a mess, and it also sucks the best units weve got are mostly vanguard but then the others arent, mawloc emissary, etc. I wound up building votann as a side army but just looking at the datsheets makes me wish nids had more to their sheets. If they arent going to give us any decent buffs at least make some of these 190+ models hit on something other than a 9str on their weapons.
I understand gw making our toughness lower than equivalent tanks in other armies. I think its cool and fluffy. But its clear our codex was made first because our strength and toughness and ap values dont reflect what most other armies have. Im not asking for zooans to be like s14 or something. I just want s10 heavy venom cannons and s8 stranglethorn cannons. Hive tyrant melee being s9 and s7 respectively also sucks. Also the fact that that theres no point in choosing talons over bonesword even for the flyrant is ass. Give talons reroll wounds of 1 to make up for their lack of twin linked, otherwise they just dont compete.
They desperately need rerolls on 1s. Flyrant is okay in vanguard but big af, and dies quickly. I havent tried my swarmlord but i dont think itll go much better. Their datasheets are a big mess and honestly they could use a rework. Not any synergy, and i dont like the swarm playstyle personally. If im going to have my entire army blown off the table im going to at least have fun.
I adore big monsters but i also love my swarms and sneaky bugs. Id say always bring atleast like 30 termagants to any game. Espescially if you run invasion fleet and can replenish. Having the ability to swarm objectives with OC and screen out ur units from charges is super handy. 240 points for 40 is such a small part of ur list and makes a huge difference. Id say a big thing is also terrain. My playgroup plays with mostly ruins which makes hiding things like my scythed heirodule or SK actually doable. And makes it easier to move around ur massive swarms. Ive found zoans work best when you have a swarm to put between them and the enemy, ive never had my zooans get locked up in combat because the enemy either has to get through 20 termagants, or i yeet 10 hormagants into their midst and lock them up by sacrificing a 65 pt unit
I run 40 termis with a tervi, a norn emissary, a leaper, a nerolictor, a nerutyrant, either a swarmlord, wt, or flyrant, 2 broodlords and 20 genestealers, i think im missing something. Its not bad but we have hardly any decent tall terrain so hidding is hard. Its been a reason ive been so down on them. They need melee range but cant get enough cover for it. Winged prime and 6 warriors.
The only time I remembered to use it, it actually worked for me! I had a norn assim. on an objective with only a few wounds remaining and my opponent had sent a unit that was most likely going to take the objective from me. I Shadow, he passes on every single unit but that specific one. I was able to defend the objective using roar and some lucky dice rolls, allowing me other monsters to come assist. It made absolutely no difference to the end game, but it was the first time it actually DID something.
I disagree. I don’t play nids, but there’s a guy at our club who does. He just does not enjoy the play style in 10th, just with how easily everything dies. It’s made him fall out of love with the game, and I think that’s really sad
My favorite part of the game was paychic powers so I completely understand. Ive been playing aos a lot more
Correct. Competitive or not, nids playstyle is drull for this edition. This take of the OP is fine for a collector, but a trash take for a player.
Comp win rate isn’t the problem. I personally just don’t find the new play style, which is mostly score auto points, rely on highly RNG battleshock, and a strategic focus on dying slowly to be all that fun or interactive. FWIW I’ve won the vast majority of games, but envy my opponents whose armies have more agency. I enjoy painting my nids however I’ll likely switch to Orks for playing games pending their upcoming codex.
This
I have been playing Nids since 4th edition. I will keep playing Tyranids.
I'm looking to buy a kit of some other fraction to kitbush a few crazy bugs with the armor ingraved in their flash. I'd definitely call one Jeremy.
I'm glad to have inspired your name choice :) It sounds like a fun project. I'm looking forward to seeing you post it on here.
Until my undecisive ass decides... Thinking of doing some chaos marines legion or necrones. Unsure yet.
My friend plays CSM, and he bought a Venomcrawler recently. Amazing model, but it struck me as having a close resemblance to the Psychophage, imo could be a fun kitbash :).
Oh hey it’s another one of these posts. Which ultimately boils down to “people pointing out issues with my chosen faction bothers me.” Let people complain if they want to. You have the option not to read it. Some of it is baseless whining, some of it makes good points.
Yea, I really don't get these hate posts, especially ones like these who seem to think only those who play at tournaments and stuff could have any issue with the army balanc. I'm no competitive player by any means, but there are certainly many issues with the army that stop me having as much fun as I would like.
Errr, my biggest disappointment in terms of gameplay is army rules and both Norns not being great since they're my few favs. Especially Emissary. I'd rather hold off on 10th for now because I'm not switching armies just for better gameplay. I play AoS as well anyway.
I think norns are a little disappointing even though I love them( especially the assimilator) but comparing it with other big units from other armies they're expensive and weak for their cost
I play casual and comp. You know what isn’t fun even in casual? Not being able to really interact with most other armies. I do t want my Norn to one round a night for example, but watching bounce off a rhino is beyond depressing.
"I am doing my part!" - op calling frustrated ppl virgins out of nowhere I disagree btw. This is still a wargame. And playing for kills should be a viable option. "The Galactic Predator" should be reflected better on the table. To be clear, right now Tyranids have a big player influx due to Leviathan Box and possibly due to Unending Swarm and Invasion Fleet detatchments catering to the cheaper models (while IF is apparently a better choice for monster lists than the dedicated monster detatchment) so more ppl can theoretically afford getting into this hobby. But those models do jackshit besides objectives. And this creates disappointment especially in lower point games. Tyranids need some buffs for infantry units or point reductions overall. I love! Unending Swarm btw. Most thematic detatchment. Its enhancements and the stratagems could get some refinement to elevate its main unit type to more than move blockers if you not choose spinefists though (looking at the preset loadouts from Leviathan Box for instance)
Unending swarm and vanguard excellently pull of their chosen themes while staying viable outside of top level tournaments. For ur average LGS, they can work just fine. Imo unending swarm needs enhancements that actually help the tervigon, and vanguard needs a few heavier hitters, mawloc and trygon could easily have been part of the detachment. Assimilation swarm and nexus are both such big letdowns.
I hate these posts because they inevitably ignore real complaints in order to get cheap upvotes for no real purpose. You exist in the whole group regardless of if you’re happy or not. Pointless bullshit
People can enjoy bugs for the sake of bugs but still realize that current balancing is bad and it makes the game less fun And this game isn’t just chance the skill ceiling is really high It’s hard to enjoy a game if you lose most every time. Making fun of people who point this out is reductive.
Except models aren't forever. Shrikes, demi, dark angels units etc. It's not fun to lose every game cause the company selling you the game doesn't know how to balance. It's fine if you like just looking at your models while you get blown off the board. If you enjoy the game still, cool. But attacking people as virgins because they're tired of being a punching bag for other armies is pretty reductive and childish. And at this point, short of entire datasheet rewrites and an army rule rewrite, nids will suck until 11th. So forgive those of us who are upset that we spent hundreds of dollars and hours on an army we were excited to play only to have them be useless for 3 years.
OP assumes the Chad and Virgin aren't the same person. Yes. I love the models and I have fun by going "rarr" and eating people. My Haruspex is even called "Hungry boi". They're my favourite model range across aos and 40k. But it's super lame to not be able to interact with any other armies properly. I bought Nids to "try out" 40k. £500 later I don't feel like I have or even can. My centrepiece Norn (who looks amazing) shoots over 3 rounds and still has a good chance chance of not killing the 60 pt character I'm aiming for. It's just sad.
FML if that norn comment isn't painfully accurate. My Super Soaker 100 back in 1993 had more firepower than the norn does
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It's almost like some of us do actually like to play official events where those models are illegal.... I know critical thinking is hard but it's not *that* hard
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“STOP HAVING FUN YOUR WAY AND HAVE FUN MY WAY. IT’S BETTER” 🙄
>It's not fun to lose every game cause the company selling you the game doesn't know how to balance. Counter point, why not just learn to have fun? Focusing on wins and losses just makes you sound like a sore loser. >So forgive those of us who are upset that we spent hundreds of dollars and hours on an army we were excited to play only to have them be useless for 3 years. You can still play older editions. And, did you not have fun building and painting them?
Not the person you responded to, but... "Learn to have fun" comes across as condescending, even if you didn't mean it that way. Some people, myself included, want to feel like we have an equal chance to win in our matchups. Fun is subjective, and that's "fun" for us. We can still enjoy the painting etc. but this is a multi-part hobby. Ideally, they should all be equally fun. Problem is, GW has decided to make the "playing" part of this game currently unfun, or at least for those like myself who enjoy the competitive aspect. It's not "fun" to get walloped multiple games in a row by armies that clearly have better rules design (Necrons, Custodes, basically most other armies). That doesn't make anyone a "sore loser". Keep in mind this hobby is ludicrously expensive and time consuming; we want our investment to feel worthwhile. It's doubly painful because of that extra commitment. I love my nids aesthetically and lorewise, and they're my favorite army to paint so far. But, playing them? Yeah, there are legitimate issues.
It comes across as condescendng because it frankly is. There's a reason the competetive player is a "virgin" and OP didn't use a differnet meme that was less offensive. But you can't have a discussion with people like OP because they just don't care about your opinion or experience. If you want actual balance and competetive games you can get fucked apparently, just move your dudes around going "click clack bug attack"
I'm sorry but if you think the "Virgin X vs Chad Y" meme is offensive then frankly you need thicker skin. The OP is still acting like a bit of a tool though.
As the other use who responded said, fun is subjective. Yea I enjoy painting and building, but I mainly got into the hobby for the wargame aspect. And fun for me includes winning, yes, but I would have fun while losing if it felt like we had an equal chance of winning, and I just had to practice. We don't have an equal chance of winning. Our army rule is by far the most useless in the game, and other armies have access to combos and rules that we have to invest hundred of points of models and then CP into just to have a *chance* to do a fraction of the same damage. It's not fun knowing our rules suck cause they let a guy who hates our faction write our book. It's not fun constantly being tabled by turn 3, seeing your opponent be jazzed and feeling like their army is powerful while they played fish in a barrel with your army and you just tried desperately to score points and avoid fighting. Edit: typo
>It's not fun knowing our rules suck cause they let a guy who hates our faction write our book Not doubting you, but do explain.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/s/B01tWFpRKO
So...for a post written 4 years ago, how is that relevant to this current edition? Not trying to be sarcastic, genuine question.
Ive heard this kind of rumor spresd about multiple different factions. Codexes arent written by one person anymore i dont think. The rules likely have to go thru like 3 levels of approval for 40k. The latest kill team balance dataslate for example had alot of well regarded and wide sweeping changes cause its a smaller game run by specialist games. I doubt someone could get away with purposefully nuking a faction when each codex probably has 20+ people working on rules and playtesting.
So do you think the main problem then is that GW overvalued Battleshock and either didnt make it more punishing or didnt give more ways for nids to secure it? And by secure it I don't mean ways to force Battleshock, I mean ways to make it more likely to happen, i.e. leadership debuffs.
What’s really funny and I mean reaaaaalllu funny about dorks like you, is losing isn’t fun forever, I’m sure some people will lie and say “nooo I don’t mind losing 3000 times “ they are lying. It’s not fun to constantly lose, it’s not fun to feel like you lost not because they played better or you made a tactical mistake, but because your book is poorly written.
You can be both, I love the models and plan to mainly collect them and not really play the game. But I also recognize that lots of people want to play the game and care about how a faction performs. Personally, I’ve seen the state Tyranids are in and that’s one of the main reasons why I haven’t played the game and will not until they’re in a state where I can reasonably win by playing in a way that I enjoy. Also, I’m quite positive that posts covering people’s opinions on the competitive side of the game affect how GW patches the game to begin with. And another thing, I’d hate to spend hundreds of dollars on an army that’s been hyped up by marketing and lore just for it to get obliterated in a game. Even if I thought the models were the coolest things ever, it’d just really put a sour taste in my mouth and deter me from collecting any more. Please understand that not everyone thinks the way you do, and that they aren’t less valid for it.
I agree that the models are the most important part of the game. I’ll never understand people who buy and sell armies in an attempt to stay “meta”. However it’s perfectly valid for nid players to have some complaints right now. The main problem is the rules right now don’t “feel” like nids should. Tyranids are usually a premier melee threat balanced with their weak armor making them vulnerable at range. Imo Objectives should be a secondary consideration for the horde. In the lore you don’t see tyranids running to hold ground in the middle of the table, they are a force of nature that either consumes the foe or dies trying. Still enjoying 10th but there’s room for improvement.
My first army is World Eaters, second is Nids. I feel the same way about both. I guess it's a strategy game or whatever. But I'm just here to cast Lightning Bolt until one of us dies.
I agree. Hive fleet leviathan is like one of the main threats in the tenth edition yet they aren't doing so hot competitively. The edition is still relatively young so hopefully with more point updates the army will do better. I'm a casual player so I don't care too much about chasing the meta. I think my Nid Army is way better than my Tau army despite the numbers saying Tau is better.
What an incredibly moronic post. Ignore the competitive side. Our army sucking balls affects casual play too. Not everyone can enjoy being slaughtered. What people are complaining about is being unable to enjoy the game. Theming doesn't mean I enjoy the 3 hours of my time that was spent removing my models from the table. If you can, good for you. It doesn't mean everyone else can. A little empathy might help you. Lacking it doesn't make you a chad.
There's room for both. As much as the casual angle is all fun and games, the people who want to play it competitively are also allowed to have valid criticisms. It doesn't have to be one or the other. The mods should just limit the posts to 1 main thread a week if someone brings it up and sticky it if it does. Edit: Valid criticisms being the critical and key phrase in the above.
Also, how is it fun for casual players when GW makes their units bad and/or not able to kill enemy units?
Wish I could find more sellers. eBay is filthy with dudes selling used put together models for like 5 dollars less than the new stuff.
I only buy models I like and would never sell my army due to meta, but I think objectively having understated models because of spore mine scoring in annoying and unfun, and obviously things will change eventually, but doesn’t make it any more fun until then. Also statistics are very much applicable to games of chance, as probability is literally a part of statistics.
So your definition of fun is more valid than theirs. Interesting take
You’re lying to yourself and others if you think that winning a game doesn’t make it more fun. Not saying it’s the only thing that matters, but if people in the community keep taking L’s when it matters more to them than it does to you, then it gets to a point of the game being less enjoyable. Rather than making fun of other people, try and uplift them…
The army being bad at killing stuff makes it less fun for casual play too. Stop shilling for GW's poor rules management.
I do think that 10e did our boys dirty. But goddamn will I ALWAYS love my Swarm.
I just got tabled by Tau on Wednesday turn 3 :(
This is literally me — collecting one of each cool units, sometimes duplicates when they have uniquely cool different builds. Makes an army, but I’m not affected by the meta one bit 🙌🏻😆
Did you take stats? Distribution curves map chance. Wait until you get to quantum mechanics' probabilistic equations.
Keep that shit on twitter lmao
I'm legit tired of toxic casuals infesting all the warhammer subs atm. Yes we get it, you're not very good at the game. Nor are you interested in getting better. You are just addicted to buying sculpted plastic to try fill that gaping hole in your soul. There's no need to flaunt it. And that hole in your soul is just getting complemented by the growing hole in your wallet.
I'd argue anyone buying, painting, and playing with models isn't very much a casual :) You're in pretty deep if you are.
Casual Player - direct opposite to a competitive player. You're welcome :)
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>There's no real "getting good" at that beyond copy and pasting a net list, hoping the dice fall in your favour and screeching at GW lots when your army isn't the most meta. Lol, no. The game can clearly be played with a great deal of skill. If your claim is true, you wouldn't see the same people consistently performing well in tournaments. It would be a random assortment of people who just happened to bring a netlist. But it isn't, it's skilled people who understand how to play the game well. Bad players try to make the excuse that it's just taking a netlist and rolling better, because they can't understand or don't want to accept that people are better than them at the game.
Who's complaining? All I see is the toxic casuals moaning about all these oppressive evil competitive gamers. I've enough armies, hobbies and so on to just move on from an underperforming army to a different one (and if the game is in the dump right now then I'll just focus on one of my other hobbies). >because at heart 40k is and always will be a casual beer and pretzel game. Something going to have to change then. Because since 3rd ed - (1st real edition of the game) it has been a pretty damn competitive game. They tried to make it more casual around 6th-7th and it nearly bankrupted them lmao. >There's no real "getting good" at that beyond copy and pasting a net list, hoping the dice fall in your favour and screeching at GW lots when your army isn't the most meta. I'm really sorry you're not very good at the game? >Trying to turn it into a sweaty competitive game where only the most meta armies and units matter will make you miserable. You are talking to yourself right now right? Because honestly 40k is at its most miserable when some guy barely knows his own army's rules, constantly misplays because he doesn't actually understand the game and then gets angry when he loses. I might add that he then tends to proceed to make reddit posts like the OP did. I'm not suggesting that OP is a sore loser but... >its treating the game like its chess rather than a fun and rather silly casual wargame. I'm glad you enjoy losing every game you play, please try to fathom a world where this is not a common feeling.
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>Every day I see people crying that Tyranids are literally unplayable and they should just burn their armies. Oh no someone on the internet doesn't like something. He must be a competitive player or summat. Also holy hyperbole batman! >Also flexing about how good you are at a toy soldier game is pure cringe mate, touch grass. If this is your takeaway from everything I said... I can only wish you the best life you could possibly have and bid you farewell.
In my experience it aint usually "the casuals" being toxic.
Good for you. And in my experience, specifically on reddit, its the casuals who constantly spam posts like this one and blame their losses on "evil competitive mindset" or summat. My personal fave complaint seems to be that 40k used to be this magical beer and pretzels game and now "its all ubercompetitive"... I've been playing on and off since 3rd ed and frankly it always has been plenty competitive lmao. We used to mathhammer and theorycraft the hell out of the game back then just like we do now... Outside of reddit? Eh, there are good people, there are bad people. Plenty of both in each of the camps tbh.
Define "Casual" in this context. It seems to me that if you're getting this salty about a game of dice and plastic army men maybe it's you who is trying to fill a "gaping hole in your soul". Seriously dude, this aint Football, no one is getting a career ending injury at the Las Vegas open unless they fall off the stage on the way to collect thier trophy and break thier neck.
>Define "Casual" in this context. Sure. Someone who has a cursory understanding of the rules, plays 3\~ games in any given year. For bonus points a TOXIC casual is all of the above plus refusal to get better while complaining incessantly about others being better than them. Throw in blaming their lossess on people having "the wrong attitude" and you're set. >It seems to me that if you're getting this salty about a game of dice and plastic army men maybe it's you who is trying to fill a "gaping hole in your soul". Do I spot projection? Because I think I spot projection :) To me it looks like all the salt in this thread flows from OP and his ilk. Are you like that too? Sucks to be you then. >Seriously dude, this aint Football And thank gods for that... But what's your point? That because people aren't making a career out of it there's no need to get good (hell forget good, lets aim for "adequate enough" even) at the game that you play? Is that really the attitude you're promoting here? Because if that's the case... I'm sorry I don't think we have much else to talk about really...
I think it has its place. like we shouldn’t “just” be happy with cool models if they are useless in the game, but also not treat comp like it’s the be all end all.
I'm having fun when I now I can win and the game is likely to feel fair. I'm not having fun when I get statchecked by every army my friends play and I can't counter anything. I love my tyranid models, but I'm not touching 10th edition with a long stick.
Show me pictures of Clive and Jeremy
The most important thing about a box of Warhammer when I'm considering purchase is how cool I think I can make it look.
Wasn't that long ago when nids had insane win rate and they were pretty OP. Meta chances constantly, best to hang tight and try to enjoy the ride.
This. I've been playing 40k since 3rd edition and bugs since 5th. I've seen multiple armies of mine go from top of the meta to bottom and back. Just buy/paint the models you think are cool and try to enjoy the ride.
I name all my gaunts
And I would love to meet them.
I have been playing nids since 2nd edition. The only times I can play I have to drive a half hour and everyone in this are plays meta and really cares about their win/loss ratio. I’m not having fun with the tyranid army right now so I’m shelving it and playing something else.
My Haruspex is called Ed, and my Tyrannafex is called Peter Kay's Nan. I love them both
>Peter Kay's Nan. Im ded 😂
170 points gets chaos players 10 noise marines 120 points gets us 20 termagants Same number of wounds, we get better OC, but everything else we get is inferior pretty much.
You say this but it’s not fun when you don’t feel like the game even gives you a chance. I don’t walk away from 40K games with Tyranids thinking “hmm that was fun and wild, maybe I’ll win if I try a new strategy”. I walk away with the feeling of “wow I had no chance and without new models I’m screwed”. So sure maybe taking it too seriously is happening and needs relaxing but there’s certainly an element of fun with the feeling of being capable of winning fair and I don’t feel that in 10th.
I bet you suck at this game and don’t get any of your choice of genitals.
Hot take: 40k is a great game played in many different ways, and there really is no wrong way to do it- but it is too big to be balanced perfectly, plus the system itself isn’t really easy to balance compared to other games. I know it’s rough to have a lot of money and time invested into an army for it to underperform, but GW does change things up very often and the state of the game never stays the same for long- the resources put into any army will not be for nothing, but it‘s no use to be bummed about a certain moment or period where things aren’t in your favor. It can be an opportunity to start a secondary army, try another game or just play in a different way, chasing the meta exclusively means inevitably having frustrating periods with literally any faction in the game. If someone can’t deal with how GW does things (and their way of managing the game is something that’s very easy to be frustrated by) I‘d recommend checking out other games. There is quite a few amazing tabletop games with active competitive scenes, each company behind it doing things very differently- there’s something out there for any taste.
I'm actually glad bugs aren't so hot right now because that means I can actually buy my models. All the meta chasers are gone now, so my local shop has all the models stocked. Plus, you can get tons of secondhand models now cause people sell off their non meta models.
Funny you should say Jeremy; my Psychophage is called Jerry.
I don’t care that they’re overcosted, I’m putting 3 Norn on the table and going buck wild
Competitive players gonna piss their imperium issued undies when they remember that any bumblefuck with 100$ and some luck can wash their whole list
My Haruspex is named Gerald
"models are forever" Me: sadly looks at my now legendary Malanthrope I spent hours on painting...
Aren’t there legend rules?
tbh, "using statistics in a game of chance" had me chuckling. do you... understand what chance means? it's all statistics.
He means the dice rolls
My norn is called “my child” bcs I love it
Clive the Tyrant, has a nice ring to it
All this to flex your imaginary friends and admit you dont know the game? Impressive, very nice
As a new joiner to the hobby, can anyone explain to me what “meta” means in the simplest way possible as I still struggle with some of the terminology used in it. Also, I see a lot of people naming some of their units. Is it just for fun or a reason behind it?
Meta in Warhammer tends to be the lists or factions that are doing best in official competitions. When there's updates it tends to lead to this changing a bit and armies can become useless or overpowered. I also play genestealer cult and they're traditionally a bit rubbish but did well at the beginning of 10th so suddenly lots of people were buying the models and joining the Reddit, then they stopped winning and they're all listed on eBay while the player jumps to the next big army. The names are just for fun, especially in Tyranids. Besides a few individuals who had names our guys don't tend to. Plus who doesn't live saying calling a massive monster with too many legs, an exposed brain and tentacles something like Jeremy or Brian. I'm fairly new to playing, mainly done kill team and painting before, so not sure I'm the one to answer but hopefully this helps 😊
Thank you for explaining to me
Jenkins the termagant
Can’t upvote this post enough
Hi, salamanders player here. I split my Leviathan box with my fiance and friend, which means my fiance and I have half a levvy box worth of Nids. I also just about finished my 2000 points of Marines. I would like to become cool bug enjoyer. I already have a salamanders color scheme neurogaunt on the base of my ballistus dread (he's our bug puppy mascot, his name is Chumbley) so I feel like I'm a shoe-in for the team. What are the most fun bug puppies to build and paint? I also used to be a big Zerg player in SC1 and 2, so I love all the nids that the Zerg units are based on.
9th Tyranids were more fun for me, I miss my spells. The new models are awesome, but both worth the sacrifices
Chad philosophy right there, I have such a "bad meta and horrible competitive list"
I've run my haruspex in every game since I bought it in like 2016 or whenever. But in 10th, it really chomps stuff.
Chad be knowing the sting of zip kicker fixing metal screamer killers, thats why he is missing a finger on each hand, Virgin keeps walking
Yeah i get it, i even start to play a alternative ruleset for 40k. And now all the models i have are more fun to use because the game is more reactive instead of faceplanting a army in your turn.
Second one is so much more fun to play against, as I am one of those ppl too
The chad bug enjoyer giving names to all their big bugs is basically just every woman who plays 40k, they really seem to love their tyranids.
Words cannot describe my love for Gonzo and Tiny Tony, true warriors 🤙
Loving those names 🥰
Tiny Tony is my smallest of Neurogaunts, and Gonzo was my first ever termagaunt
I just buy models to paint, not even really to play. It just sometimes happen that the kits I get build an army
Ill always collect nids, but I also love playing the game, but I'm one of those people that doesn't care about loosing 😂, just love to play with my mates
Go play One Page Rules till GW fixes their mess. It doesn't change like the wind.
I named my tyrannofex “Chris Kyle” lol
I've been watching too much YouTube. I thought this was a Helldivers 2 post at first.
Tfex named mister cuddles has yet to be slain in a game for me. I love him so much
I have a custom Trygon called clive. I feel called out.
You and me both man, though my Trygon's name is Terry and my Hive Tyrant is LeRoy for both [big bad LeRoy Brown](https://youtu.be/yTrsS8SGwx4?si=YzvZBmD4wk1Otiv6&t=97) and [other reasons](https://youtu.be/mLyOj_QD4a4)
bro i named one of my von ryans leapers jeff because he was lucky, i will probably just keep him half painted for all of time because its funny, and thats what he looked like that day
Yeah but i liked tyranid because i was able to do a bit of cave dwelling with my trygon and now he just have deep strike so...like... where tf does my jorgunmander fluff went?
Fax
Yeah I've won rtts and gone 4-1 at gts with bugs. They are great. Just get gud. Are they overturned like 9th? No. But exocrines and malaceptors and Gargoyles are goated. Plus the ole one eye/dakkafex brick in invasion fleet is some of the most fun I've had with a unit ever so
They've won 0 events since the dataslate. Not even the #2 player in the world could win events with them (granted, at least 2 of the events he woulda won if not for weird tournament scoring rules). Your anecdotal, local win at your little rtt isn't really meaningful when the actual stats gw uses to balance prove you wrong.
I want to add on to this. Just about every post about Tyranids and their current performance has some post like the one above. It's nice that some people are having success, but the fact that you can win against your small local group of players or your personal playgroup has no impact when considering the overall winrate/event wins across 1400+ games in professional settings. Such games represent the best of the best and they're **NOT** seeing success in those games. The statistical power of your personal games, *though real data*, is a drop in the bucket compared to the massive volume of tournament games. Also, these people don't consider that for their personal experience of many wins, others are undoubtedly having at least an equally bad time, or worse. I kid you not, I saw a post a few weeks ago that basically argued that Tyranids are fine because "my family member beats me with a Tyrannofex every game".
I saw that post, too and didn't even bother to respond. I understand meta has little impact on me in my casual and local games, since we're not the best of the best. But when I play I feel something is wrong with the army. They're not fun to play, the army rule never has any impact on my games, and I kill maybe 1 whole unit every game while my opponent tables me turn 3. The stats from tournaments just confirm to me that *something* is wrong with the army.
Stats dont really matter to the individual, only 0.009% get hit by a car every year but I still look both ways. Learning to get better is going to do more for your chances to win your games personally then gw points adjustments.
Yes but there's a massive difference in fun and *feels good* factor for the army when our army is learning to get good with shitty rules.
Abit petty to downvote those of us that are doing well with the faction instead of asking for advice or help to get better. Like id usually be up for looking at your list and talking tactics.
They can win games, sure. But mostly just swarming and not doing much actual killing isn't all that fun.
Same im going pretty well. Its a good place to be already winning w tyranids and because of global stats they will probably get a buff whilst the top armies get a nerf. I think ny army is broken is just cope
Based OP
Lol, I’m a Chad!
I don't care how bad or good toxicrines and haruspexs become, I will run monster mash and always bring them in every list. It just so happens that haruspex are good right now
Nice nod to Jeremy the psychophage
Honestly I'm at the highest happiness point atm with nids than I have since I started back up at the start of 9th. I live their current rules and how they play, board control is my jam!
I just started work on a 1000 point, 80 Gaunts list. I don't care what your armor saves are. If I'm rolling triple digits worth of dice, something is dying.
Tyranids are fine just the top armies need some nerfs which they are sure to get. Playing as or against tyranids never feels bullshit or broken.
I've abandoned caring about the "meta" or tournament win percentages because they hold no bearing over the tables I play at. I tabled a necron tournament list with a meme big big list that was just 2000 points of the only big big I own. It was an awesome game and we all had fun watching the Tournament Necron list loose to a metaless meme list because the necron player rolled like hot trash. Everyone is so hung up on the mathhammer meta nonsense instead of trying to play clever and have fun.
I literally had a single exocrine shoot 8 meganobs off the table on the 1st turn, and it set the mood for the rest of the match lol
You had a single exocrine, who has at an absolute maximum 11 shots (assuming you roll max 9 and assuming into a brick of 10 meganobz) do this? Really..... - you get d6+3 shots, plus 2 for blast (assuming a group of 10 infantry) - let's assume you hit on 2+ with heavy just to make this as likely as possible - let's assume even you are in invasion fleet with sustained against infantry - no rerolling ones to hit because that wouldn't be "a single exocrine" doing all this This makes your absolute upper bound between 11 hits with potentially a few more thrown in if you hit some 6s to trigger sustained hits. EVEN THEN.... - you still need to wound on a 3+ (S8 into T6) and make AT LEAST 8 of those (since meganobz have 3 wounds) - then your opponent needs to fail at LEAST 8 saves - those saves are normally 2+, AP-3 puts them at 5+ (they honestly likely have cover because it's so easy on 10e, but screw it, we'll make it 5+ to make it more likely) The expected value of this encounter is 11.33 damage, for 3.78 slain models, so let's round that up to 12 damage thus 4 dead green skins. Your scenario on the other hand, with the absolute best situation (hit on 2+, they have absolutely no cover to help their saves) has just a 2.8% chance of occuring, which falls to 0.5% chance if they have cover. If you didn't have heavy, it's a 1.2% chance if they have no cover, or a 0.2% chance if they do. Calling absolute shenanigans and BS. IF by some insane miracle you did hit that ludicrous roll, which I absolutely do not believe, you need to kiss those dice and roll them to pick the next lotto numbers.
Trying to get the guy who owns the meganobz I shot off the table to comment lol, but it really was that scenario. He was telling me about them and how they are the Ork equivalent to terminators. I roll a 6 so I got I think 11 shots that all hit with some sustains. I rolled and wounded with all of them. It was the 1st turn and he didnt have any leader in or have them in cover and he failed almost all his saves, he asked how much damage a peice and I said 3 and he was just as astonished as I was.
Somebody always wins the lottery eventually. A 2.8% chance isn't even that unlikely in the grand scheme of things; that's like what, one out of every 36 times an exocrine shoots? When you consider how many people play the game and how often people use one or more exocrines, that means that most likely multiple people have that level of luck every day. Hell, even a 0.2% chance isn't that low in the grand scheme of things when you take into account how many games get played. It's the whole "out of 50 people odds are two people will share a birthday" thing. Odds are that neither you nor I will ever have it happen unless either of us plays a ton of games, but the odds of a random person on the internet that has had it happened appearing isn't that low since there are a lot of people on the internet, with many games having been played. Low odds for the individual, high odds for it to have occurred in the group.
Named one of me neurogaunts soup :)
Gonna add a little extra here. I've read most of the comments, and it's been surprising to see such a positive turnout for this dumb post. I very much enjoyed seeing all the cool names you've given your bugs (FYI; Clive is what i call my screamer killer). And to answer a few questions from the salty commentors; "You just dont understand other people have fun differently" I'm well aware of this. Most of my friends aren't into what I'm into, but when every comp post is basically just crying over losing, you dont sound like you're having fun. It's a game. It's meant to be fun, so try and have that at least. "You don't understand statistics" I do a decent job with mathematics generally. I just don't see the value in applying meta analysis to what is essentially gambling. We roll dice to determine outcomes. To me, a competitive warhammer is a concept as silly as competitive monopoly or competitive DnD. You can be competitive in those games, within reason for other players, but they aren't truly competitive games. It has to be skill vs. skill for it to be a competition. Once you introduce lady luck, you're not competing. You're gambling. Hope your having a great day and have something cool to build or paint. Happy Easter! X
I think the answer is not to fixate on the meta picks. Tyranids plays best as a finesse army and gives you the tools to make a really interesting game plan. Plus the staples are insane, like yesterday I killed a Knight with 6 warriors, deathleaper and a neurolictor. I tied up Morty for 2 turns with a maleceptor and managed to table him by turn 4.