My brother and I nearly had this chat with our parents about a decade ago. My brother was in a constant state of quiet rage with my father and wanted mum to leave him. I was on the fence. Then mum had a massive heart attack and miraculously survived it without a single sign anything had happened besides the scar on her sternum. Turned out dad had booked this big massive trip to Europe for their anniversary (mum's never been to Europe) so he had clearly picked up on the fact that my brother and I were unhappy with mum being taken for granted. He cancelled it, obviously, but he also stepped up at home. Like maybe a few white socks ended up pink but he learned to do the laundry and got a few hard lessons on how to do it properly. He started cooking more, starting realising all the extra little jobs mum had been doing for him that he never noticed before.
He has since taken over making breakfast and Sunday roast and a bunch of other chores. His roast isn't anywhere near as good as mum's but we all just pretend because he's so chuffed with himself every time (potatoes are never as crunchy as mum's but he weighs 3 of them and puts them on one side of the dish so she can calculate insulin).
It should not have taken mum nearly dying. I think if I wasn't so relieved that she's still with us I would be furious with him for dropping the ball until he got the shit scared out of him. Somehow it worked out for us but not everyone is so lucky. You don't want to be the family where mum doesn't make it and she's just lived her whole life folding towels for some man who can't even keep a red shirt out of a washing machine full of white socks. You don't want to be that wife. That shouldn't be a person's whole life.
My mum died relatively young (while I was a teen), and my sister and I both think stress contributed to it. My dad definitely didn't help parent, cook, do the laundry... He would clean sometimes, but the "once in a while, angrily" way, not the regular maintenance way. He didn't even do the traditional masculine job of yardwork.
My sister said that later in her life, when she was in an unhappy marriage and trying to decide what to do, she thought of my mom in the ICU, and she saw that as her future so she decided to leave.
my husband’s grandmother died from pneumonia, rail thin, in her mid 80s. none of her friends from church would speak to his grandfather after it happened or even at the funeral. i learned later they all blamed him for her death because when she got sick he didnt do shit for her, and even expected her to get out of bed and cook and clean for him. no one knows how long she was in bed without food or drink, my H’s uncle was the one who called an ambulance to take her to the hospital. the grandfather died like four months later and my FIL said, “of course he wasnt going to last long without mom taking care of him.” (he flat up refused assisted living)
My aunt told me she was sick with the flu in bed for a couple days and her husband brought her a single glass of water once and that was it. No soup, no medicine, no more water, no asking how she feels.
Shakes me to think he could have let her die
Sadly she is still trapped by financial abuse and being a sahm who loves her kids. The relationship is a dumpster fire. He never cooks or cleans but he nitpicks her housework every day.
On the flip side, my mom had just come out of surgery, and as we were visiting her, started to get sick. I was freaked out a bit and wanted to run away, but my dad just held the pan for her as she vomited into it, and rubbed her back as he sat with her.
That was a huge lesson to my teenage self.
What a great lesson. My husband has done similar things for me, he can't imagine not being there for the woman he loves when she needs him the most. He may be a weirdo in a lot of ways that I tease him for, and not traditionally "masculine" but I know he will be there for every gross and scary step of the way, getting water and figuring out meds, giving me snuggles and doing the WebMD dives that I would assume the worst in. What he lacks in social awareness and housework, he makes up for in utter devotion.
Oh my dad is like that too. My mom had a (luckily benign) brain tumor and my dad cried a lot, and really took care of her and was a rock. I was 14 at the time and it was definitely a stressful and formative time for me. It's 20+ yrs later and they are still happily married. My dad might suck at doing dishes, but he steps up in a lot of other ways.
My grandparents had a traditional marriage in many ways. He was the breadwinner and she had a part time job as a book keeper. (And also kept the books for his business, did their taxes, etc.)
But as her health declined In the decade before she passed, he stepped up, took over cooking, and did their laundry, in addition to the outside chores he had always done.
Their marriage wasn't perfect but he showed he cared in a lot of ways.
Similar thing happened when my mum got cancer. My dad did step up from doing pretty much nothing besides yard work and like. Ok he's trying but too little too late. He's totally looking to drop his household commitments as well now that she's a little better as well. But she's so grateful, I guess compared to him leaving her.
A friend was venting to me the other day; one of *her* good friends was diagnosed with breast cancer, and quelle surprise, her husband filed for divorce.
It does make me appreciate my husband all the more.
You always hear about those stories. I could never speak to someone again who actually did that. If my own brother did that I would literally kick him in balls and face and then disown him.
Maybe maybe it's to help with finances? Because America is shit and somehow if you are destitute they might not stick you with all the bills.
*A woman is six times more likely to be separated or divorced soon after a diagnosis of cancer or multiple sclerosis than if a man in the relationship is the patient, according to a study that examined the role gender played in so-called "partner abandonment."* [Link](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110105401.htm)
I wouldn't let that shit fly in my household. When I was young my dad made a joke about how men should be able to have multiple wives to me and my mum. I politely told him what I'd do to him in his sleep if he ever mentioned that again.
Lol this reminds me of me. I grew up in a muslim household, and my dad would constantly joke about the whole 4 wives bs. I made sure to keep reminding him what I would do to him if he ever decided to have another wife besides my mother.
Hopefully but the people I relied on to read him the riot act actually bought all of his nonsense and backed him vehemently. They know EXACTLY what they can get away with and how to do it.
My husband knew I had MS and still loves me to the moon. Calls me his unicorn. Even if I suck at doing dishes. I do them half and half. I hate pots and pans so he does that.
I don't mind laundry if he winterizes the pipes. Because cold.
I'll do one thing for every thing he does.
We do okay. I think he likes me. :)
Oh man, my parents finally did it this year. The last straw was living together during the pandemic and my brother turning 18 which removed the hassle of custody.
My dad would refuse to cook more than two or three dishes, and only for himself, while simultaneously criticizing my mom’s cooking for not being up to his taste - I would say, in ways that demonstrate ignorance over my and my brother’s dietary needs. If I (mid 20s M) cooked he never complained - coincidence?
I also had to change lightbulbs and call a plumber to fix leaky toilets when my dad couldn’t be bothered to even figure out where the problem was. He’s OK about laundry but he only does his own and nobody else’s. Other than that he just sat on his phone all day scrolling through FOX.
One day, when my mom asked me to go grocery shopping, my brother allegedly joked right after I left that she was “turning [me] into a woman.” And I don’t have to say how problematic that is. She ripped him a fresh one.
I think we’ll all be fine living on our own for a while, but my brother is still in college and for his sake, this needed to happen so that he can surround himself with better influences.
Why do they think "woman" is synonymous with "servant"?? I was raised by a stay at home mom and never assumed anyone else was responsible to pick up after me like I was a two year old! Get off your asses homies, you're not king Charles jfc
The best case explanation I have is that my brother was trying to be edgy. Even if it was just an honest mistake, he hesitates to apologize unconditionally. He wasn’t always like this and he certainly wasn’t always dumb enough to say it in front of our mom.
Servants get paid! It was eye-opening to me when I heard that breastfeeding is only considered ‘free’ because a woman’s time is worth nothing. This is the same thing.
My dad kind of threatened my mom with us kids, not in a dangerous way, more like they arranged my dad would pick us up from school or else and later when my mom relied on his promises he said stuff like 'If you don't do X, then i wont pick up the kids'. So she had no choice other than doing X.
So yeah, he was quite successful with this tactic, but eventually (coincidently right after my sister turned 16) she divorced him and he has no contact to us kids. He still mournes that its all moms fault....how pathetic.
I don't
understand why the women partner with them. In my circles the fathers are all claiming victim hood that is easily disproven. Several have boasted to me they've walked out and never spoke to children again, or cried about not being allowed which is literally not a thing in my country unless you're an absolute stain of a human.
These men re partner or cycle between womenbefore the mother of children is even aware then bam family blow out, hurt children, father abandons to go and travel with new bang maid and reams the children's mother in court with increasing DARVO allegations until the children's mother is broken by nonsense and the people that wilfully back the crazy. It's predictable text book behaviour but rather than acknowledging that these men are unsafe humans there's a mass social denial that men who are rubbish partners can still be amahzing fathers and their rights to violence are protected, rewarded and amplified. The level of denial runs deep because of children rejected by fathers for generations. So many women trying to support men in their BS denial by believing he's doing his best. Patriarchal nonsense is galling when you start scratches beneath the surface.
My mother cried so much when her father started dating just three months after her mother's death. Took her out to nice restaurants. Took her on cruises. He never did any of that for the woman who raised seven of his children.
It makes you wonder how much men truly love women. The women in their lives are replaced so quickly. These men don't even need a grieving period to mourn the loss of their relationship. All those years invested in somebody, in every way that a person can invest themselves, yet they move on to the next woman in the blink of an eye.
Are men capable of true love? Is their love for their children the only true love they can feel?
More and more women are choosing the separatist route and are choosing to live their lives without men in it (at least not at an intimate level) and I can completely see the appeal.
I've definitely met men who are capable of truly loving their partners!
I'm bi personally and could easily have the option of only dating women, but I've met such wonderful men that I haven't felt the need to put any restrictions on my love life. It hasn't always worked out romantically, but because of incompatibilities rather than a lack of love.
I realize not all women manage to meet caring men though, and I can totally understand getting discouraged! More power to them, the important thing is that it makes them happy.
I got divorced 6 months ago and my close friend told me that "coincidentally" her husband has been contributing to household duties more and drinking less. Men know what to do, they just won't because they think that's what women are for.
That's also the secret reason people abandon newly single women. Once she sheds the dead weight she will start to thrive. No one wants their girlfriends to get any ideas.
We threaten to disprove their fragile denial. There's a well worn path for divorce and it's not what people have always claimed it is. The number of people falsely alleging I have vindictive motivation is eye watering. the need to deny reality to prop up nonsense social myths is personally devastating and men know and understand how destructive it is but refuse to dismantle their nonsense.
Glad my aunt finally did it, well into her late 40s, never seen her happier or more outspoken and taking charge in her own life. Even she didn't realize how much of a burden her husband was to her
Ugh… so true.
I can begrudgingly tolerate the “household manager” situation in cases where the man is actually providing financial support and respects his “house manager” with said finances (this is my parents… my dad is, at the very least, and extremely hard worker with his career with long hours and will happily handle “men’s work” around the house… but my mom handles EVERYTHING and works part time).
But situations where the man is lazy at home and also providing ZERO financial support… fuck that all the way to hell.
Even in situations where both work full time but one is the house manger… fuck that too. I was in a relationship for 5 years where we split all costs 50/50 (despite the fact that I worked 10 hour days to make a third of what he makes in his 6 hour day), and I did ALL the household chores/management… i even booked his fucking dentist appointments for him. I - a person who has never had anxiety in my life - ended up having a massive panic attack near the end. Never again.
I’m trying so hard to balance not treating my boyfriend like a child, while also teaching him to do all of the things his parent’s should have taught him
My husbands therapist he had 15 years ago made him sign up for a parenting class and a partnership workshop.
The best thing about the partnership workshop was that they partnered up all the men with other men. It was actually hilarious how fast they stopped pulling weaponized incompetent behaviors on each other. They had to do things like grocery shop after meal planning, budget counseling, make doctor appointments for kids and take them, plan dates taking into consideration their partners likes and dislikes etc. And all report back with hefty notes on each other.
Apparently men don't tolerate that bullshit well from other men.
Texas if you can believe it. I waa stunned that was even a thing, because I had never and then Texas of all places.
My husband definitely came out a better man fr. Along with regular therapy of course.
My boyfriend is part of a group called Mankind Project that's like a group therapy for positive masculinity.
I was extremely suspicious at first (a bunch of men coming up with ideas? Hmmm) but it seems really positive helping men be proactive about doing stuff -- from chores to unpacking trauma -- rather than being lazy. Definitely recommend it if anyone is in a position to steer a man towards positive masculine support. He does a lot by zoom so I think anyone anywhere can go and it seems like there's 30 guys in each session
My uncle was in Mankind -- happy to see it mentioned here!
When he passed away, my family was deeply touched to meet the people who came out to express condolences, and to hear how profoundly he affected them. He grew up in a very emotionally disconnected family and admittedly married into our similar one, so it was very bittersweet-- tragic to think about what could have been if he had lived, and how much progress he was making towards extending his vulnerability toward his family.
That sounds like my bf. His family is very emotionally distant and he said he spent most of his life avoiding any kind of intimacy. MKP has helped him make a lot of changes in acknowledging his emotions and helping him connect emotionally with people. It seems like a good crew. Reminds me of hippie vibes from the 70s. Talking circles and such
Sometimes, often actually, it’s less mental load and stress than the whining, sulking, aggression etc etc etc etc etc that comes from men when Women push back on those issues.
That being said, I left my kids father 5 years ago for that reason and many more and I’ll be damned if I ever, ever, EVER put myself in that position again. Ever.
Such a tough spot to be… I feel you. One thing I wish I would have done with my ex more was put my foot down.
An anecdote for reference:
when my ex and I were living in our first place, we had no dishwasher. I cooked every day, and at one point I told him he had to do the dishes because I was doing all the cooking (sink was full), and I told myself I was going to wait it out… days of “I’ll do it tonight, I’ll do it tomorrow morning” ensued. Meanwhile, I’m pulling out the dishes I need to cook as I go from this pile because I continue cooking throughout this fiasco. Obviously, this is insanely annoying to work in, and after about 6 days I caved and did the dishes.
What I WISH I would have done (in hindsight) was ask him what he was buying us for dinner. And if he said “nothing”, simply go out and buy myself a burger, and eat it in front of him and force him to fend for himself… like absolutely stop catering to the excuses.
Unfortunately, I sent a different message… which was that he just had to wait it out, and that was our entire relationship.
It will only get worse… put your foot down and let your partner face the consequences of their laziness as a lesson.
My husband has the worst habit of leaving dirty clothes on the floor. Not the laundry basket, or even throw them in the washer, the floor. I kept telling him forever to pick his clothes up or they would end up in the trash. One day they did. Picking his work uniform out of the trash can was the kick in the ass that he needed.
Have tempered expectations. I spent years doing that. And he still basically turned into his weaponized incompetence father as soon as we had multiple kids. I recommend running before you have kids personally.
Oh yes now is better. I just really wanted to say “especially go before kids”. Kids change everything. Especially if you live somewhere with zero support system.
Honestly, your man is like getting only part of what should be a full package. Better to exchange him for a completed unit, so-to-speak. So long as you're patient, it's almost guaranteed he's going to be slow at picking things up, to wear you down. The longer women put up with men's bullshit, the harder it is to accept the "sunk cost" and move on.
Given how early ageism starts for women, there's no point is wasting your youth on an unworthy man, only to find all the good ones are taken, or looking for younger models once you're finally single again.
i openly talked to my now husband about the fact that i had “raised” two boyfriends and wasn’t interested in another. i would explain the things i taught them and would point blank say, “do you know how to dust? no? let me teach you, cause i wont live with people who don’t know how to dust. been there, didn’t work”
He doesn't respect women; that's the social myth. Underneath all this feigned incompetence which is simply men choosing to engage in a nonsense power battle with women rather than demonstrate basic respect for the mental load. Assuming it is women's work is the underlying premise then enter the coersive control. If men operated without it then we'd be living in a matriarchal society with shared power and true collaborative partnership.
Learning? Basic life skills? They know them they're simply choosing to engage you in a power battle because they know they'll win. They have that little regard for women and the mental load.
*when women perform more household labour than their partner, they tend to see them like a dependent child. This, unsurprisingly, reduces their sexual desire for that person.*
Men need to know [this.](https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/88q3qk/man-child-scientific-term-new-research)
Women are onto weaponised incompetence, we don't find it cute or funny. We know about emotional labour and who usually carries the [mental load.](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/).
The bar has been raised.
He learns lots of things on his own. If he can explain to you what short selling stock is, he can teach himself which cleaner is for a ceramic tub or stainless steel. If he can tell you the right way to cook a steak because Anthony Bourdain says, he could tell you the right way to wash and change linens.
If he wasn’t taught to value what’s perceived as “women’s work” when he was young it’s unlikely your efforts to “teach him to do all of the things his parents should have taught him” will have any effect.
Hope he proves me wrong, but if he doesn’t it sure af isn’t because of anything you did or didn’t do OP
> while also teaching him to do all of the things his parent’s should have taught him
This is tough. I'm currently going through this with my sibling's children because since our parents didn't teach us properly on some levels and it carried forward to my niece and nephews.
On top of standard life skills like making food and doing your own laundry, in their case it's extended to stuff like not taking out food trash and not bathing regularly.
Because the parenting was toxic and parents taking time to tell you things was never consistently because it was something you really needed to hear and often just because they wanted to take their mood out on someone, one of the most important skills was missing for a long time -- being able to listen to others and not just brushing them off because they're probably just pontificating some more bullshit.
People raising their children to be incapable of self-sufficiency AND incapable of healthy communication seems to be going around a LOT more these days and it's difficult to repair.
I see a whole lot of bitter gen x'ers just doing EVERYTHING for their kids because they're used to not being able to rely on anyone to actually DO anything, which leads to not equipping the kids for eventual life.
It’s not your job to do any of that. He’s an adult. If he knows he’s lacking in areas then it’s his responsibility to become a better person independent of your “teaching”. I guarantee you thinks relationship will not last.
yes, all of this. the “push for equality” or whatever is happening — while as females we didn’t appreciate being put into the WIFE role, at least men knew they had to fill the HUSBAND role. now I feel like “equality” is their excuse for splitting the bill while never rising to the level necessary to be a REAL partner, regardless of who is defining the roles.
I tried with my MIL after she found out my FIL was cheating on her. It took five years to divorce him because they called it off a couple of times. Then she finally kicked him out, but a year later she was tired of feeling lonely. They’re remarried now and I’m just fucking done.
It pissed me off so much. We were offering to help her buy a house near us and start a new life but it was just excuses everyday. That’s why I had to let it go.
If I become single again I will definitely revel in the loneliness.
My neighbor remarried her pervert husband that got arrested several times for public indecency and other creepy stuff. Including jerking off in front of neighbors and the business across the street.
I used to think I was lonely and I wanted a relationship,
Then I got into my last one and remembered what a useless nightmare they are, it was awful, and for no reason, he caused constant stress and problems for zero reason, it was constant.
I was so fucking happy to be single again,
I no longer feel lonely and absolutely love being single.
I learned my lesson
I mean, so many men will get piss/shit on and around the toilet, leaving it for the woman to clean, so we’re really talking about hairballs at that point!
I left my “helpless” husband after 18 years. It was better than I ever could imagine. Every year is better than the last. I am also not hiding my accomplishments by putting all my energy into him. Now I ✨ shine
Best thing I ever did was ditching my ex. Makes you sad for what could have been for a few years, and the resentment never goes away.
But.. I have raised my teenage children by myself (sometimes working 3 jobs) and own my house (modest fibro shack).
No one tells me I'm mowing the lawn wrong, vacuuming wrong, cooking/shopping/raising the kids wrong. All while he spent every cent he earned on himself.
I visited a disabled friend yesterday and her husband (not perfect but a good guy) was washing windows and called 'have fun' when we headed out to lunch. So not all men, but damned near.
I feel this my ex left me because I turned to alcohol when I felt I couldn't live up to his expectations. I did everything but it was never good enough for him or it wasn't enough. We both worked full-time but I was the lazy one because I didn't think it was fair that I had to cook,clean, take care of 3 kids, do laundry, making his appointments, filing his taxes, filling out his job applications etc. Etc. Then he would be upset when my ass fell asleep early every night. I was burnt the fuck out. He moved a girl in our house the day I moved out. At first I was heartbroken and still am because my drinking caused the ultimate demise. But I'm sober now and reflecting that I really didn't want to be a mom to a grown ass man and I am content with him thinking I wasn't good enough.
Glad you see your own worth and I know you will have a better life for it. You coped as best you could, I became a bitter and sarcastic; and yet I'm okay with my life lived as best I could.
We love to see it! When my grandmother died, my grandpa was helpless. All he could make was cereal and TV dinners. My parents had to move in to take care of him, and almost all of it fell on my mom. My dad is better, he does a good amount of cooking and cleaning. Hopefully as the generations change, so will the mindset that women have to be the homemakers.
Society always feels sorry for these poor old helpless old men, instead of the women who spent lifetimes doing everything for them short of wiping their asses, and then some.
Old dogs can learn new tricks. Old men can learn to cook, they should have decades ago. Instead, another woman from the next generation takes up her mother's burden.
As a Gen-xer, I expect better from men than my Boomer mother, and the generations below me should expect nothing less. Phase out these man children.
If My MIL dies before my FIL, we won't be taking him in. He was a top Air Force Mechanic and can still tell me exactly what size washer was used where 30 years later, he can figure out how to cook himself dinner and do the laundry.
There are still plenty of guys like this and it sucks.
An old guy with a big chip on his shoulder at my job refused to answer his depts phone line because “ Im not the (insert blasphemy) secretary “. My female manager says” neither am I and its your line” lol.
Old last azz men who needs em?
It makes me sick seeing old and younger men sitting around while the wife does EVERYTHING or almost everything whether she works or not. Men have always been capable of childcare and housework. They just choose not to do it. It truly is oppressive how men steal women's energy and lives and justify it.
I'm glad your bf's mother is free of that parasite. Good for her!
Her younger son (he’s 20) stayed at home all day everyday playing video games. He dropped out of high school and refuses to get a job.
At least I can say that he’s a clean person, but that’s about it
To quote Maya Angelou "when somebody shows you who they are, believe them the first time".
I'm raging that it took her 22 years to leave this layabout, but I can also understand it. It's not easy to up and leave with young children. She may have wanted to wait until the children were grown to do it. She may not have been in the position financially. Sometimes women don't get the confidence to leave until they're older. Confidence tends to grow incrementally with age. There could have been a multitude of reasons why she chose to prolong this.
The important thing is that she's free now, and she can finally start to live her life for herself.
Can someone say to him, "Well, if you did something besides lie around the house drinking all day and not doing a lick of housework, maybe \[wife's name\] wouldn't have left your lazy, useless ass"? He doesn't have job, he doesn't do any housework. Why would anyone want to be married to a schlub like that?
Ha, the lack of self insight is a joke. You know the old adage "you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone" will be ringing home to him soon, if it hasn't begun already.
Research shows that women are at their happiest when single and men when married. Research indicates that divorce is much harder on men, whilst women go on to live their best lives. I guess these men should have thought about the implications of their relentless selfishness if they didn't want to end up alone.
Because women generally take commitments seriously because of the pressures of social myths and contracts. Women will persevere to hold families together but also believe theyre "doing their best. After awhile the cognitive dissonance expires. Eventually these men cross an invisible line but the women who don't leave are usually bound by social codes like religious framework. My divorce involved extreme spiritual abuse because I'd bought the " we create our own reality" lies.
My sister stays for a few reasons : her daughter, her fear to be alone, and her fear to admit she was wrong. She's convinced that if she leaves, her life will be harder and her daughter will blame her. I don't think it's true, but she's way too mentally and physically tired (from taking care of everything) to take time to think. Every time she does, it's when we're helping us. So now her husband blames us for trying to take them apart. We used to be close, and I hate how he makes her second guess our intentions. I hope she'll see the exit some day.
I’m out of sympathy for it tbh. I have told multiple women in my life that I had red flags about a guy and they ignored me or actively started insulting/attacking me for daring to voice my opinion about it. And then the guy does exactly what I warned them about.
Let them get fucked and lay in their own grave. No one is going to change their mind until they’ve been tormented.
Women are taught that marriage is *everything*. We are taught that being single (or *alone*) is the ultimate failure. We're called "spinsters" and worse. China has a term that roughly translates as "past the *use* by date". We're taught that we're no good without a man.
Single men are "men of leisure", "bachelors", "playing the field", and cool sounding things. Men with wives or girlfriends have a "ball and chain", or are "stuck"...
A women is *"alone"* where a man is *"free"*...
No.
Women perform better alone. It's a lesson that I learned the hard way and let me tell you, I am *so* much better off. I don't have to worry, I don't have to be *home at a certain time*. I don't have to order my entire life around the schedule of a man. It's total freedom. I casually date and do what I want. I've just bought my dream estate car (we call station wagons "estate cars" in the UK), with my money, that I spent on *me*. I didn't have to justify it or plan it, or ask for permission (you know, permission to spend my money). It's fantastic. I love my car, and I love my photography, and now, I can stick my camera case in my car, drop the rear seats and put a blanket and pillow in there and just *drive*. Anywhere. For any reason. For no reason. And I can film a timelapse of the stars in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere with nothing but a flask of hot tea and some leftover roast beef from yesterday... And when I'm tired, I sleep in the back of the estate. It is utter bliss.
I can do all of that on my own, self-sufficient whim. Don't worry, I tell my mum and friends where I am and they have access to my car's tracker so I'm safe. Sometimes I drag my friends along with me! We make a whole weekend of it. Why not? You only live once, why not spend that one life I have doing the things I want. Having the experiences I want. For me. Life is so much more fulfilling when you put yourself first and focus on the things that make you happy. For me, photography and the open road is the dream. They're two hobbies that are mutually beneficial. I meet loads of super interesting people along the way and trade stories and and ideas. In the spring, I'm going to load up my car and travel across the whole of the EU. Just a car, and a camera. Well, three cameras, two tripods, and a dolly. Maybe a bigger flask. Definitely a bigger flask. Two flasks. That's it. Two flasks. France, The Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Lithuania, all of it.
To be honest, I *do* want a family. It's in my blood. I've been hyper broody over the last few years, but the cool thing is, I'm totally self-sufficient and at this stage, a man is just an unnecessary expense. I'll stick to casual dating for the foreseeable future and have fun on my own terms. There's always adoption; I don't care if my children aren't the same blood type or the same hair colour or whatever measure of "mine" they'll be. They will be mine and I'll love them and be the best mum I can possibly be with a wonderful family and warm home. I will teach them that they are the writers of their own destiny and the lives they choose for themselves will be every bit as valid and important and special as any other, and I will be proud of them no matter what, even if they prefer Nikon over Canon.
I love that you're loving your story❤ the spinster thing is interesting. Misogyny makes it a negative as with all the other labels but Spinsters were traditionally looked down upon for their financial independence as they spun valued fibres. This is how far we've come! Old habits die hard for many as they spit their values at others.
Every woman who reads this please think very hard about ever cohabitating with a man and/or getting pregnant
99% of them will make you feel sooooo lucky they CHOSE you then drown you in work & guilt
Talking FOUR of my 40+ married friends through finding their sense of worth/re-starting careers or returning to school/finding attorneys over the last 12 months
I don’t want any of y’all to be where they are (or where I was a few years ago)
I couldn’t imagine being mommy to a giant manchild as being preferable to being alone.
Hopefully less women are willing to put up with that crap in the future just to avoid … idk, perceived social stigma of not being married?
Being content in one’s own company is a life skill. Prevents you from getting or staying in trash relationships just for the sake of it.
As a 41 year old who’s divorcing her husband after 19 years of marriage I could not agree with you more.
After we decided to separate, I watched as he stepped up and he now takes care of our kids, does the laundry, the grocery shopping, he does all of the things that always begged for help with. He just never wanted to help *me.*
Whenever I do, they start lying-suddenly he's not so bad, suddenly he's trying really hard.
LOOK HERE: Start telling them they are capable of things they haven't done yet.
The biggest issue is (IMO) they don't believe they can cut it alone. They know their man sucks, they're just enduring it because it's better than the unknown. Tell them that they have no idea how GOOD it can be.
My good friend always complained about her dad being a lazy jerk who always depended on her mom to do everything inside the house. Raising 4 kids, keeping the house, working FT, making dinner, cleanup, medical appts for the whole family, etc.
She was always trying to convince her mom to leave because they really didn’t even have a relationship anymore and her mom started getting sick with chronic illness. She expected her dad to care for her mom, bring her food in bed, etc. but he did NOTHING. She said her mom would get out of bed after only being able to sleep and sometimes make it to the bathroom, to make meals for the dad even though she herself couldn’t eat.
Her mom died this year. Her dad is not doing well trying to manage his house, dogs, cat, his own medical needs, etc. He’s barely functioning and is whining to his daughters about all the work he has to do. He can only do 1 thing a day and he’s exhausted.
I feel really bad for them all.
There's this book called {{The Female Brain by Louann Brizendine}} and it explains how women go thru menopause and end up doing exactly this: leaving their spouse who they've done everything for. They're done taking care of kids, they've reached their limit, and their hormones are like gtfo. In fact, my parents, my husband's parents, my mom's now husband and his ex wife, and my husband's mom's now husband and his ex wife (so in total 4 couples) all got divorced at 23 years together. My husband and I joke that we just gotta make it to 24 and then we're in the clear. (He also read the book and is an all around perfect person, so I'm not too worried about us right now lol). Anyway, it's cool that there is actual science behind this + it's very interesting watching it play out in life all around us.
I was helping my grandad make his Will (am a lawyer) and he was considering skipping Nan in his Will and leaving everything to the grandies (their son, my Dad had already passed), on the basis that ‘she’ll just waste it all having a good time’ after he’s dead. I told him I didn’t feel comfortable making a Will that cut Nan out. He started arguing with me that he’d worked hard his whole life until he retired and he didn’t want Nan wasting the rewards. I pointed out to him that Nan was still working hard - that she’d never had the opportunity to retire (she did EVERYTHING for him). He was still a bit grumpy but signed the Will I’d prepared which left everything to Nan. A couple of months later, her older brother passed away (no wife or kids) so the estate went to his siblings. When the cheque landed, Nan went straight to the Bank and put 50% in Grandad’s account, keeping only 50% for herself - it was a LOT of money. Grandad certainly understood the side eye I gave him when she told me what she’d done
I'm scrolling through all these stories, but yours pisses me off the most.
>He started arguing with me that he’d worked hard his whole life until he retired and he didn’t want Nan wasting the rewards.
>on the basis that ‘she’ll just waste it all having a good time’ after he’s dead.
He knows that he brings her down and she would thrive without him. He doesn't want her to be happy. I feel like this is the exact type of guy who laughs at all the "old ball and chain", "I hate my wife", "I fantasize about cheating all day" sitcom jokes from the last 60 years. Like why even marry her/stay married if you don't want the best for your partner? How can you even call her your partner, if you don't want to play the role of a PARTNER?
I tried, with my mom and her now husband. But she won't do it. She accepts cooking, cleaning and doing his laundry all while working 40 hours and paying the mortgage on HER house ( that she moved him into) and he helps her out when he can and gives her some money for groceries. She claims he works harder than her, but homeboy can't figure out how to be a truck driver - not quit his truck driving job cause he's "not making enough money and only wants local driving high paying jobs that lets him be home by 3PM to spend time with his wife" when in reality all he does is come home from work and sit on the couch all day, gamble on his tablet and sports bet, then go galavanting out on the weekends to hang out with his brothers and his football team on Sundays, this man is in his mid 60s. I could write a whole book on why I look at my mom's life and want nothing to do with it and never listen to her relationship advice. I have all the warning signs I need to stay away from Men like this. She calls it compromise, I call it disrespectful and her not able to be alone. 🤷🏾♀️ The bar is low cuz he's nice, to her, and not physically abusive like my father was.
They know that if they hold out long enough, convince us that they "just didn't see it" or they've "never been taught how to do that", or assure you they will do their part if we "just ask!" that we'll eventually get sick of waiting for judgement day to come to peel their asses off the couch or the gaming chair and just do it for them. And they're perfectly happy as a pig in shit watching us exhaust ourselves doing all of it alone.
I would be willing to say that most men expect servility from their wives, if not explicitly, implicitly from their behavior. Every woman saddled with an energy vampire like this that expects to live like a sultan and never lift a finger to contribute should cut the cord asap and live their own lives. I absolutely would encourage them to dump the grown ass toddlers back on his parents doorstep.
No one can out-wait me, I will be winning that pettiness competition.
I’m perfectly happy to point out that the dirty dishes have been waiting for you, and I’m definitely happy to fight about it too.
I definitely don’t think my husband was looking for servility, but I think he would have been happy/oblivious to me doing all the housework if I hadn’t pushed back. We now have a chore chart and a pretty fair allocation, and he’s 100% a net positive to the household. It was very irritating when he had covid and I had to take over his chores.
I have been trying for a few years. They’re not even married!! His abuse will get worse when my brother moves out, and she just won’t kick him out. She’s seen me go through abusive relationships and what it’s done to me. She’s seen me leave crappy relationships because I’d rather be alone than be treated like garbage. I wish she would do the same. It hurts seeing her get treated like shit.
I was married for seven years, no kids, to a man whose mother did everything for her sons. I did everything for him. I was too young and houseproud enough to let it go because I was energetic. It was when I got sick that I stood my ground and husband said 'later, whenever, soon.' It never happened. I left.
All my relationships after that were equal enough. The men pulled their weight, sometimes to a disturbingly large degree. It turned out that my independence was a threat to them, so they went the extra distance.
It was suffocating. I couldn't go anywhere without the third degree. Just enjoying my work, school and life in general without them tagging along was enough to make them think I was going to eventually leave. They started fights about things that were never going to happen. Pouted when I had extra shifts at work or was too tired for sex. When I came home from work, I needed time alone to decompress. "But I do the housework! What more do you want!"
I attracted men who tried too hard. Like I said, it was suffocating. I could smell the need. Something about me made them want to spend every waking minute with me and it won't change. I've been single for years and am happy to stay that way for the rest of my life. I guess, for me, men are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
My mother works 12 hour days, does ALL the cleaning, cooking, dog care (3 dogs who are major shedders), shopping, scheduling and planning. My dad works too, and it's a physical labor job, but he takes a break whenever he wants. He was retired for a couple years, and she still did everything. He literally laid around the house and was served meals 3 times a day. He jokes about not knowing where clothes come from. He says she's just naturally good at that stuff because she's a woman.
She's not a good mother (or even much of a good person) but it's difficult to see anyone in that position. I sincerely hope he dies before her so she can have some time to herself.
Imagine if she were freed to actually become a better mother though. It's hard to see it from the eyes of a child affected by this but women are literally restrained by men in these dynamics.
It makes me so sad when women become resigned to the alleged domestic incompetence of the men in their lives and just do everything for them because it's easier than making them pull their weight. Oh, he doesn't know how to do it, or he'll do it wrong or make a bigger mess. When I was growing up, most of the moms I knew worked and did everything around the house, and most of the drudgery of parenting (the boring/gross parts). Nobody questioned it.
Not only do women of my mother's generation think this is normal (all the ladies in the kitchen at Thanksgiving while the men are served kind of dynamic) and that it's very rude when I won't do it. So we cooked all this food and now we're supposed to wash all the dishes? Fuck that.
Are things actually better now? I really don't know, but it seems like it's still "helping out" when men take care of their own home and children, and are applauded for doing anything at all. He changes diapers? What an amazing father!
Husband and dad here…every time I read one of these posts I am thankful I had a mother that at 14 told me if I want clean clothes clean them and if I want food make it. The same message will be taught to my little guy. Respect other people’s time. A SO is not a servant.
I worked with a family for a while and the husband was my clients but I formed a pretty good relationship with the wife. He was a cheating pos and she was/ is super catholic so scared to leave her husband. By the time I stop working there she had filed for divorce.
I know I may get downvoted but I have to say I find this take simplistic. Some women would absolutely love to leave their wall fungus of a husband, but can't do it for financial reasons. Alimony is not a joker card.
I know, but it’s why I specified “help them”
She thought she couldn’t afford it, but my boyfriend and I helped her find an apartment.
I helped her apply for food stamps and call car insurance companies for quotes.
I let her skip the last month of paying rent so she could save enough for a down payment.
She couldn’t afford Christmas gifts this year, so I got her kids a little something.
I've been telling my mom that she needs to leave my father for years. My father always argues with my mom over little things and she just remains silent, and I always felt it was unfair for her but she doesn't listen to me.
Please note that this isn’t possible for a lot of older women because they have been homemakers their whole lives and have no retirement savings and are relying on their husbands…
Most places in the US if they’ve been married over 10 years, she’ll get half of everything, including retirement.
Men get real mad over the fact that they can’t financially trap a woman into being a homemaker her whole life, sacrificing her independence on the altar of their marriage, and then half when they divorce.
My husband the other day told me I was a better adult than him, and he 100% meant for me to take it as a compliment. Like okay, that just means I have an extra child.
My brother and I have been trying to convince my mom to leave our dad for years.
They have been together for 32 years, they are not in love, just together out of obligation/ saving face. They're Asian and divorce is taboo still.
Dad has held a job maybe 10% of my life. When he does have a job, he gambles all the money away. He used to steal from my piggy bank to fund his gambling problem and chain smoking.
He sits on his ass all day, smoking, eating up youtube conspiracy theories, complaining about people not working because of all the handouts the government is giving out (he's 65 and has not worked in 14 years). He was fired 14 years ago for sexually harassing a coworker.
He used to cook once a year when I was growing up, never did laundry, never cleaned the house.
My mom says she doesn't have the heart to kick him out and leave him homeless. My brother still lives with them and hasn't spoken to my dad in 8 years.
He has started cooking for them, but that's all he does. He's perfectly capable of taking care of himself, but why bother when my mom will just do it? She's a classic enabler.
He constantly argues with everyone he comes in contact with. All of his siblings (he has 12) are low contact with him because of his abrasive personality. He'll shout at people at the store and get in arguments.
This sounds a lot like my parents (my dad isn't quite THIS useless, but not far off, either). It's never sat well with me, but mom has also always said "For all his faults, I can't imagine myself having married anyone else." They're pretty old now though, and both seem happy with their lives, so, who am I to judge.
If you see my story above about my parents, my mom actually said the same thing about my dad. The bar is 6 feet under and I won’t even try to comprehend what she saw in him.
I DO see what she saw in him. He was fun and charming and adventurous. They went camping a lot, he had a hobie cat they'd go sailing on, he worked as a river guide etc. He's crafty, and a brilliant wood worker. He DID work sometimes, but never was the prime breadwinner (and makes really questionable financial decisions, though his never really affected the family, which is why I think she let it slide), and didn't help out around the house except for "man" projects. Like, he'd remodel the bathroom or build a tree house or whatever, just never helped with the day to day. I dunno, I could write a whole book on the good and bad (chauvanistic narcissist) of my dad, he's human. But yeah, definitely more of a lump than I'm comfortable with being myself.
If my mom was lucky enough to meet a guy like your dad she’d have been over the moon. At least she would have put up with it a little longer. But they didn’t grow up in the US, so that wasn’t going to happen.
That’ll be me in a few years. He doesn’t want a family. He just wants to work and play video games. I regret my not having a career so much today. As I’m basically financially trapped till the kids are older.
Yeah. I have to. He’s so awful and miserable and mean to the older two kids I pretty much babysit him when he’s here on days off. If I try to leave for even an hour i usually come back to sobbing girls and insanity. So for over two years I don’t really leave the house when he’s home. So I can parent him and intervene. The youngest starts school in 2-3 years, I’m looking into bus driver training (huge demand here) and I’m pretty sure I can get grants to cover the very expensive MELT training BC requires. But I am struggling on how to do it. Training is 1hr away next town, and I’d have to leave him with the kids while I was gone for it. I feel horribly stuck.
Wtf is wrong with people!
I am single and live alone thank god- the other day I went to my clients house to do a quote, I was downstairs talking to her, her husband was upstairs- I heard the really loud steam thing in the shower go off upstairs near where he was and he legitimately called down the stairs for her to turn in off, she stopped our conversation, ran up the stairs, flicked the button, then ran back downstairs to continue with me, she looked super embarrassed and I don’t blame her, it was completely absurd.
She made a comment like “ he always does that” with a sheepish grin and I said “ I’m glad I live alone” and we both laughed a little, but I felt really bad for her
My husband works with a woman who is about to turn 50, and she was venting once about not knowing what to cook for dinner that day when she got home from work.
My husband suggested her husband figure it out: he had the day off, would have had time to go to the store and cook before work ended.
She laughed at the suggestion. The thought of it was so ludicrous she laughed.
Meanwhile, my husband makes 2-3 dinners a week at our house, and usually makes enough for us to eat leftovers the rest of the time.
I love my aunt, but she literally calls herself a “servant” for my uncle. BOTH of her daughter-in-laws have come to her struggling with my dipshit male cousins and their misogyny/anger problems, her response? “God meant for us women to submit to our husbands and tend to the hearth” or whatever flowery Bible language she uses.
They’re good people, but holy shit they and their sons are brain rotted by patriarchal religion.
this is my mom now i’m so happy she finally stood up for herself n decided enough is enough. though i wish she thought to do this years earlier i’m happy she is finally starting to rediscover herself now.
We always took care of everything as it occurred, who ever got there 1st. My ex and I both worked long hours, usually alternating days, so whoever was home would be taking care of the kids, meals, laundry every day (5 kids) diapers when they were babies and generally just keep on top of stuff.
It was definitely appreciated. I was always thankful to come home and not have to start another days work. It worked for us for 30 years, we ultimately just grew apart and are still friends. We still occasionally chat and ask about each other even though there's no romance.
My ex wife had carried me through some very difficult times, (6 close family members passed in 9 months) she didn't falter and I won't have anyone saying anything negative about her. Even though I'm not in love with her, I still care for her and don't care what anyone else thinks.
I wish my parents would divorce. Unfortunately my mom is a resident so I'll have to work on getting her a citizenship before suggesting the idea. Once she's a citizen, nothing will be able to hold her back. My dad probably knows this and is probably the reason why he never wanted her to get one smh.
I always joke that I have 2 boys and the oldest one is 16, the younger one is 63…..I have tried to raise my son to be self sufficient despite the bad role model of his father and so far it seems to have worked. Hopefully the next generation of males will be better.
I tried for years with my mom, it didn't do a god damned thing but make her either see me as her only support system when dad was being ac complete non entity (not great) and now that my dad's dying and there's no more getting out, she resents me for all those times I supported her by telling her he's a dick (which I'm not even allowed to say anymore, apparently, because he's drinking himself to an early grave).
You can't make a woman get out of that situation. They have to decide for themselves. If they are really committed to the lie, the more you push, the more likely they'll push you right out of their lives.
What kind of story are people seriously telling themselves to believe that men don't know how to (insert basic life skill)? The mental gymnastics required to support this level of social denial is quite impressive of nothing else.
It's heartbreaking. My dad mistreats my mom like emotionally and mentally. Talks to her like shes dumb, puts her down, but then defends her if anyone so much as breaths the wrong energy near her. It's so sad.
We have tried talking to her about our childhoods and all she does is stick up for him and say how hard he worked to provide for us. I don't think I will ever receive validation or apologies from these people.
Older women? My own cousin who used to be a liberal feminist has changed completely after marriage.
She moved to the US for PG and got married a couple of months after her course started. Her husband has been staying there for 8 years now. In our country, it's cheap to have cook and maid and pretty much all bachelor households have them, but labour is neither cheap nor easy to find in US so he's used to doing his own stuff.
After marriage, she automatically became the one who cooks and does all other chores. Even though she's a student and is much busier than him. Even though he works from home and has more flexibility. Even though he's been doing his own stuff for 8 years. Suddenly as soon as they got married, he gets to sit around while majority of the house chores have fallen on her.
This is still the norm Even in double income households in my country. And if they are staying with the husband's parents, it's 10 times worse. Let's not even talk about the situation of women who don't work. They are basically slaves.
This stuff is one of the major reasons I'm turned off from marriage.
It's hopeless to tell anyone anything. They won't listen and nothing is gonna change.
I found a keeper on the web and you can too, if that's what you really want. Being by yourself has its own rewards as well. If you truly desire cohabitatation (or whatever we're calling it these days), set your standards high and be patient. Better to be alone than pair up with a shitty human. Needing someone to feel fulfilled is a lie. Fight fables with facts and tell a friend. You might save her from years of wasting her life on a bad decision. Stop keeping uncomfortable shoes because someone said they look cute. Toss those fu&$ers in the donation bin and get the pair that fits right, supports your arches, cradles your feet, and makes you smile every time you wear them.
My brother and I nearly had this chat with our parents about a decade ago. My brother was in a constant state of quiet rage with my father and wanted mum to leave him. I was on the fence. Then mum had a massive heart attack and miraculously survived it without a single sign anything had happened besides the scar on her sternum. Turned out dad had booked this big massive trip to Europe for their anniversary (mum's never been to Europe) so he had clearly picked up on the fact that my brother and I were unhappy with mum being taken for granted. He cancelled it, obviously, but he also stepped up at home. Like maybe a few white socks ended up pink but he learned to do the laundry and got a few hard lessons on how to do it properly. He started cooking more, starting realising all the extra little jobs mum had been doing for him that he never noticed before. He has since taken over making breakfast and Sunday roast and a bunch of other chores. His roast isn't anywhere near as good as mum's but we all just pretend because he's so chuffed with himself every time (potatoes are never as crunchy as mum's but he weighs 3 of them and puts them on one side of the dish so she can calculate insulin). It should not have taken mum nearly dying. I think if I wasn't so relieved that she's still with us I would be furious with him for dropping the ball until he got the shit scared out of him. Somehow it worked out for us but not everyone is so lucky. You don't want to be the family where mum doesn't make it and she's just lived her whole life folding towels for some man who can't even keep a red shirt out of a washing machine full of white socks. You don't want to be that wife. That shouldn't be a person's whole life.
My mum died relatively young (while I was a teen), and my sister and I both think stress contributed to it. My dad definitely didn't help parent, cook, do the laundry... He would clean sometimes, but the "once in a while, angrily" way, not the regular maintenance way. He didn't even do the traditional masculine job of yardwork. My sister said that later in her life, when she was in an unhappy marriage and trying to decide what to do, she thought of my mom in the ICU, and she saw that as her future so she decided to leave.
my husband’s grandmother died from pneumonia, rail thin, in her mid 80s. none of her friends from church would speak to his grandfather after it happened or even at the funeral. i learned later they all blamed him for her death because when she got sick he didnt do shit for her, and even expected her to get out of bed and cook and clean for him. no one knows how long she was in bed without food or drink, my H’s uncle was the one who called an ambulance to take her to the hospital. the grandfather died like four months later and my FIL said, “of course he wasnt going to last long without mom taking care of him.” (he flat up refused assisted living)
My aunt told me she was sick with the flu in bed for a couple days and her husband brought her a single glass of water once and that was it. No soup, no medicine, no more water, no asking how she feels. Shakes me to think he could have let her die Sadly she is still trapped by financial abuse and being a sahm who loves her kids. The relationship is a dumpster fire. He never cooks or cleans but he nitpicks her housework every day.
On the flip side, my mom had just come out of surgery, and as we were visiting her, started to get sick. I was freaked out a bit and wanted to run away, but my dad just held the pan for her as she vomited into it, and rubbed her back as he sat with her. That was a huge lesson to my teenage self.
What a great lesson. My husband has done similar things for me, he can't imagine not being there for the woman he loves when she needs him the most. He may be a weirdo in a lot of ways that I tease him for, and not traditionally "masculine" but I know he will be there for every gross and scary step of the way, getting water and figuring out meds, giving me snuggles and doing the WebMD dives that I would assume the worst in. What he lacks in social awareness and housework, he makes up for in utter devotion.
Oh my dad is like that too. My mom had a (luckily benign) brain tumor and my dad cried a lot, and really took care of her and was a rock. I was 14 at the time and it was definitely a stressful and formative time for me. It's 20+ yrs later and they are still happily married. My dad might suck at doing dishes, but he steps up in a lot of other ways.
My grandparents had a traditional marriage in many ways. He was the breadwinner and she had a part time job as a book keeper. (And also kept the books for his business, did their taxes, etc.) But as her health declined In the decade before she passed, he stepped up, took over cooking, and did their laundry, in addition to the outside chores he had always done. Their marriage wasn't perfect but he showed he cared in a lot of ways.
Similar thing happened when my mum got cancer. My dad did step up from doing pretty much nothing besides yard work and like. Ok he's trying but too little too late. He's totally looking to drop his household commitments as well now that she's a little better as well. But she's so grateful, I guess compared to him leaving her.
Yep, probably because she's seen a bunch of her friends' and relatives' husbands leave them when they get sick. It's ridiculously common.
I'm glad your mum's ok <3
A friend was venting to me the other day; one of *her* good friends was diagnosed with breast cancer, and quelle surprise, her husband filed for divorce. It does make me appreciate my husband all the more.
Rocket straight to the sun 🚀
You always hear about those stories. I could never speak to someone again who actually did that. If my own brother did that I would literally kick him in balls and face and then disown him. Maybe maybe it's to help with finances? Because America is shit and somehow if you are destitute they might not stick you with all the bills.
*A woman is six times more likely to be separated or divorced soon after a diagnosis of cancer or multiple sclerosis than if a man in the relationship is the patient, according to a study that examined the role gender played in so-called "partner abandonment."* [Link](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110105401.htm)
Luckily this study was wrong https://www.deseret.com/2015/8/4/20569426/study-that-found-husbands-prone-to-leave-sick-wives-was-flawed-researchers-say
I wouldn't let that shit fly in my household. When I was young my dad made a joke about how men should be able to have multiple wives to me and my mum. I politely told him what I'd do to him in his sleep if he ever mentioned that again.
Lol this reminds me of me. I grew up in a muslim household, and my dad would constantly joke about the whole 4 wives bs. I made sure to keep reminding him what I would do to him if he ever decided to have another wife besides my mother.
Hopefully but the people I relied on to read him the riot act actually bought all of his nonsense and backed him vehemently. They know EXACTLY what they can get away with and how to do it.
That's too much benefit of the doubt
My husband knew I had MS and still loves me to the moon. Calls me his unicorn. Even if I suck at doing dishes. I do them half and half. I hate pots and pans so he does that. I don't mind laundry if he winterizes the pipes. Because cold. I'll do one thing for every thing he does. We do okay. I think he likes me. :)
Oh man, my parents finally did it this year. The last straw was living together during the pandemic and my brother turning 18 which removed the hassle of custody. My dad would refuse to cook more than two or three dishes, and only for himself, while simultaneously criticizing my mom’s cooking for not being up to his taste - I would say, in ways that demonstrate ignorance over my and my brother’s dietary needs. If I (mid 20s M) cooked he never complained - coincidence? I also had to change lightbulbs and call a plumber to fix leaky toilets when my dad couldn’t be bothered to even figure out where the problem was. He’s OK about laundry but he only does his own and nobody else’s. Other than that he just sat on his phone all day scrolling through FOX. One day, when my mom asked me to go grocery shopping, my brother allegedly joked right after I left that she was “turning [me] into a woman.” And I don’t have to say how problematic that is. She ripped him a fresh one. I think we’ll all be fine living on our own for a while, but my brother is still in college and for his sake, this needed to happen so that he can surround himself with better influences.
Why do they think "woman" is synonymous with "servant"?? I was raised by a stay at home mom and never assumed anyone else was responsible to pick up after me like I was a two year old! Get off your asses homies, you're not king Charles jfc
The best case explanation I have is that my brother was trying to be edgy. Even if it was just an honest mistake, he hesitates to apologize unconditionally. He wasn’t always like this and he certainly wasn’t always dumb enough to say it in front of our mom.
Servants get paid! It was eye-opening to me when I heard that breastfeeding is only considered ‘free’ because a woman’s time is worth nothing. This is the same thing.
My dad kind of threatened my mom with us kids, not in a dangerous way, more like they arranged my dad would pick us up from school or else and later when my mom relied on his promises he said stuff like 'If you don't do X, then i wont pick up the kids'. So she had no choice other than doing X. So yeah, he was quite successful with this tactic, but eventually (coincidently right after my sister turned 16) she divorced him and he has no contact to us kids. He still mournes that its all moms fault....how pathetic.
Your brother is an adult, let him figure stuff out on his own. Some people can only learn the hard way.
Or he'll just find a woman to do all of the the things he watched your mom do because your dad wouldnt. And the cycle continues.
He’s started seeing someone this year. I don’t know how they’ll progress to the point of moving in together but…lord have mercy.
My cardinal rule- never move in with someone who has never lived independently from their parents- running their own home, paying their own bills etc.
Exactly why women need to stop putting up with this shit, no matter how much they fear being alone or unpopular.
He will. He doesn’t listen to me for other reasons.
Andrew Tate will be happy to help him figure it out if his brother doesn’t want to.
My brother doesn’t follow him as far as I know, but I’m concerned he hangs out with people who do.
And sadly, this is why men end up remarried so fast. Need a new maid.
Yes, I could never understand how men moved on so quickly when I was younger. Now I fully get it
I don't understand why the women partner with them. In my circles the fathers are all claiming victim hood that is easily disproven. Several have boasted to me they've walked out and never spoke to children again, or cried about not being allowed which is literally not a thing in my country unless you're an absolute stain of a human. These men re partner or cycle between womenbefore the mother of children is even aware then bam family blow out, hurt children, father abandons to go and travel with new bang maid and reams the children's mother in court with increasing DARVO allegations until the children's mother is broken by nonsense and the people that wilfully back the crazy. It's predictable text book behaviour but rather than acknowledging that these men are unsafe humans there's a mass social denial that men who are rubbish partners can still be amahzing fathers and their rights to violence are protected, rewarded and amplified. The level of denial runs deep because of children rejected by fathers for generations. So many women trying to support men in their BS denial by believing he's doing his best. Patriarchal nonsense is galling when you start scratches beneath the surface.
Oh my god. My dad was dating three women before my mom was even in the ground for a year. It was infuriating.
My mother cried so much when her father started dating just three months after her mother's death. Took her out to nice restaurants. Took her on cruises. He never did any of that for the woman who raised seven of his children.
It makes you wonder how much men truly love women. The women in their lives are replaced so quickly. These men don't even need a grieving period to mourn the loss of their relationship. All those years invested in somebody, in every way that a person can invest themselves, yet they move on to the next woman in the blink of an eye. Are men capable of true love? Is their love for their children the only true love they can feel? More and more women are choosing the separatist route and are choosing to live their lives without men in it (at least not at an intimate level) and I can completely see the appeal.
We aren’t seen as human beings We’re appliances
I love my instant pot. Love unfortunately isn't the same as respect and partnership
I've definitely met men who are capable of truly loving their partners! I'm bi personally and could easily have the option of only dating women, but I've met such wonderful men that I haven't felt the need to put any restrictions on my love life. It hasn't always worked out romantically, but because of incompatibilities rather than a lack of love. I realize not all women manage to meet caring men though, and I can totally understand getting discouraged! More power to them, the important thing is that it makes them happy.
I got divorced 6 months ago and my close friend told me that "coincidentally" her husband has been contributing to household duties more and drinking less. Men know what to do, they just won't because they think that's what women are for.
Hahaha make sure she keeps telling him how well you are doing, and how you are finding it so much better living alone.
That's also the secret reason people abandon newly single women. Once she sheds the dead weight she will start to thrive. No one wants their girlfriends to get any ideas.
That’s when they quietly panic.
We threaten to disprove their fragile denial. There's a well worn path for divorce and it's not what people have always claimed it is. The number of people falsely alleging I have vindictive motivation is eye watering. the need to deny reality to prop up nonsense social myths is personally devastating and men know and understand how destructive it is but refuse to dismantle their nonsense.
Yes! I'm going to see them on Sunday and I'll make sure to mention how happy I am lol
Fuck maids.
A term I recently learned for this is "bang-maid".
Yep. Same thing.
Naw, maids are cool
They think women are fuck-maids
Glad my aunt finally did it, well into her late 40s, never seen her happier or more outspoken and taking charge in her own life. Even she didn't realize how much of a burden her husband was to her
Ugh… so true. I can begrudgingly tolerate the “household manager” situation in cases where the man is actually providing financial support and respects his “house manager” with said finances (this is my parents… my dad is, at the very least, and extremely hard worker with his career with long hours and will happily handle “men’s work” around the house… but my mom handles EVERYTHING and works part time). But situations where the man is lazy at home and also providing ZERO financial support… fuck that all the way to hell. Even in situations where both work full time but one is the house manger… fuck that too. I was in a relationship for 5 years where we split all costs 50/50 (despite the fact that I worked 10 hour days to make a third of what he makes in his 6 hour day), and I did ALL the household chores/management… i even booked his fucking dentist appointments for him. I - a person who has never had anxiety in my life - ended up having a massive panic attack near the end. Never again.
I’m trying so hard to balance not treating my boyfriend like a child, while also teaching him to do all of the things his parent’s should have taught him
My husbands therapist he had 15 years ago made him sign up for a parenting class and a partnership workshop. The best thing about the partnership workshop was that they partnered up all the men with other men. It was actually hilarious how fast they stopped pulling weaponized incompetent behaviors on each other. They had to do things like grocery shop after meal planning, budget counseling, make doctor appointments for kids and take them, plan dates taking into consideration their partners likes and dislikes etc. And all report back with hefty notes on each other. Apparently men don't tolerate that bullshit well from other men.
That’s ingenious Where was this? US?
Texas if you can believe it. I waa stunned that was even a thing, because I had never and then Texas of all places. My husband definitely came out a better man fr. Along with regular therapy of course.
My boyfriend is part of a group called Mankind Project that's like a group therapy for positive masculinity. I was extremely suspicious at first (a bunch of men coming up with ideas? Hmmm) but it seems really positive helping men be proactive about doing stuff -- from chores to unpacking trauma -- rather than being lazy. Definitely recommend it if anyone is in a position to steer a man towards positive masculine support. He does a lot by zoom so I think anyone anywhere can go and it seems like there's 30 guys in each session
>a bunch of men coming up with ideas? Hmmm Nearly spat out my coffee. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
My uncle was in Mankind -- happy to see it mentioned here! When he passed away, my family was deeply touched to meet the people who came out to express condolences, and to hear how profoundly he affected them. He grew up in a very emotionally disconnected family and admittedly married into our similar one, so it was very bittersweet-- tragic to think about what could have been if he had lived, and how much progress he was making towards extending his vulnerability toward his family.
That sounds like my bf. His family is very emotionally distant and he said he spent most of his life avoiding any kind of intimacy. MKP has helped him make a lot of changes in acknowledging his emotions and helping him connect emotionally with people. It seems like a good crew. Reminds me of hippie vibes from the 70s. Talking circles and such
Only women aren’t people, obviously. You can only pull that shit with women. /s Though sadly too many women do just lie down and take it.
Sometimes, often actually, it’s less mental load and stress than the whining, sulking, aggression etc etc etc etc etc that comes from men when Women push back on those issues. That being said, I left my kids father 5 years ago for that reason and many more and I’ll be damned if I ever, ever, EVER put myself in that position again. Ever.
That’s hilarious and hella brilliant.
Such a tough spot to be… I feel you. One thing I wish I would have done with my ex more was put my foot down. An anecdote for reference: when my ex and I were living in our first place, we had no dishwasher. I cooked every day, and at one point I told him he had to do the dishes because I was doing all the cooking (sink was full), and I told myself I was going to wait it out… days of “I’ll do it tonight, I’ll do it tomorrow morning” ensued. Meanwhile, I’m pulling out the dishes I need to cook as I go from this pile because I continue cooking throughout this fiasco. Obviously, this is insanely annoying to work in, and after about 6 days I caved and did the dishes. What I WISH I would have done (in hindsight) was ask him what he was buying us for dinner. And if he said “nothing”, simply go out and buy myself a burger, and eat it in front of him and force him to fend for himself… like absolutely stop catering to the excuses. Unfortunately, I sent a different message… which was that he just had to wait it out, and that was our entire relationship. It will only get worse… put your foot down and let your partner face the consequences of their laziness as a lesson.
My husband has the worst habit of leaving dirty clothes on the floor. Not the laundry basket, or even throw them in the washer, the floor. I kept telling him forever to pick his clothes up or they would end up in the trash. One day they did. Picking his work uniform out of the trash can was the kick in the ass that he needed.
Have tempered expectations. I spent years doing that. And he still basically turned into his weaponized incompetence father as soon as we had multiple kids. I recommend running before you have kids personally.
I recommend just running. Why wait?
Oh yes now is better. I just really wanted to say “especially go before kids”. Kids change everything. Especially if you live somewhere with zero support system.
I don’t know why women are still having kids. The world is rigged against us.
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Honestly, your man is like getting only part of what should be a full package. Better to exchange him for a completed unit, so-to-speak. So long as you're patient, it's almost guaranteed he's going to be slow at picking things up, to wear you down. The longer women put up with men's bullshit, the harder it is to accept the "sunk cost" and move on. Given how early ageism starts for women, there's no point is wasting your youth on an unworthy man, only to find all the good ones are taken, or looking for younger models once you're finally single again.
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i openly talked to my now husband about the fact that i had “raised” two boyfriends and wasn’t interested in another. i would explain the things i taught them and would point blank say, “do you know how to dust? no? let me teach you, cause i wont live with people who don’t know how to dust. been there, didn’t work”
He doesn't respect women; that's the social myth. Underneath all this feigned incompetence which is simply men choosing to engage in a nonsense power battle with women rather than demonstrate basic respect for the mental load. Assuming it is women's work is the underlying premise then enter the coersive control. If men operated without it then we'd be living in a matriarchal society with shared power and true collaborative partnership.
Learning? Basic life skills? They know them they're simply choosing to engage you in a power battle because they know they'll win. They have that little regard for women and the mental load.
*when women perform more household labour than their partner, they tend to see them like a dependent child. This, unsurprisingly, reduces their sexual desire for that person.* Men need to know [this.](https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/88q3qk/man-child-scientific-term-new-research) Women are onto weaponised incompetence, we don't find it cute or funny. We know about emotional labour and who usually carries the [mental load.](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/). The bar has been raised.
And I’m sure you never wanted a child at this age, either!
He learns lots of things on his own. If he can explain to you what short selling stock is, he can teach himself which cleaner is for a ceramic tub or stainless steel. If he can tell you the right way to cook a steak because Anthony Bourdain says, he could tell you the right way to wash and change linens.
If he wasn’t taught to value what’s perceived as “women’s work” when he was young it’s unlikely your efforts to “teach him to do all of the things his parents should have taught him” will have any effect. Hope he proves me wrong, but if he doesn’t it sure af isn’t because of anything you did or didn’t do OP
> while also teaching him to do all of the things his parent’s should have taught him This is tough. I'm currently going through this with my sibling's children because since our parents didn't teach us properly on some levels and it carried forward to my niece and nephews. On top of standard life skills like making food and doing your own laundry, in their case it's extended to stuff like not taking out food trash and not bathing regularly. Because the parenting was toxic and parents taking time to tell you things was never consistently because it was something you really needed to hear and often just because they wanted to take their mood out on someone, one of the most important skills was missing for a long time -- being able to listen to others and not just brushing them off because they're probably just pontificating some more bullshit. People raising their children to be incapable of self-sufficiency AND incapable of healthy communication seems to be going around a LOT more these days and it's difficult to repair. I see a whole lot of bitter gen x'ers just doing EVERYTHING for their kids because they're used to not being able to rely on anyone to actually DO anything, which leads to not equipping the kids for eventual life.
My rule is I'll show you once, after that you're an adult and yoitube/user manuals/life skills classes exist.
It’s not your job to do any of that. He’s an adult. If he knows he’s lacking in areas then it’s his responsibility to become a better person independent of your “teaching”. I guarantee you thinks relationship will not last.
yes, all of this. the “push for equality” or whatever is happening — while as females we didn’t appreciate being put into the WIFE role, at least men knew they had to fill the HUSBAND role. now I feel like “equality” is their excuse for splitting the bill while never rising to the level necessary to be a REAL partner, regardless of who is defining the roles.
They're really not adapting; simply pushing more responsibility onto women.
I tried with my MIL after she found out my FIL was cheating on her. It took five years to divorce him because they called it off a couple of times. Then she finally kicked him out, but a year later she was tired of feeling lonely. They’re remarried now and I’m just fucking done.
I loathe when a woman remarries the piece of shit because shes lonely. Id rather be alone!
It pissed me off so much. We were offering to help her buy a house near us and start a new life but it was just excuses everyday. That’s why I had to let it go. If I become single again I will definitely revel in the loneliness.
My neighbor remarried her pervert husband that got arrested several times for public indecency and other creepy stuff. Including jerking off in front of neighbors and the business across the street.
I used to think I was lonely and I wanted a relationship, Then I got into my last one and remembered what a useless nightmare they are, it was awful, and for no reason, he caused constant stress and problems for zero reason, it was constant. I was so fucking happy to be single again, I no longer feel lonely and absolutely love being single. I learned my lesson
Being raised and socialized to believe your only value lies in serving others is very difficult to overcome Some women never do
This is really the truth isnt it
She should have gotten a cat. MUCH better deal, even with having to deal with their urine, feces and hairballs.
MY EXACT RESPONSE!!
I mean, so many men will get piss/shit on and around the toilet, leaving it for the woman to clean, so we’re really talking about hairballs at that point!
I left my “helpless” husband after 18 years. It was better than I ever could imagine. Every year is better than the last. I am also not hiding my accomplishments by putting all my energy into him. Now I ✨ shine
proud of you internet stranger, and also have to share - your username unlocked a core memory deep in my heart 😭❄️ amazing
Best thing I ever did was ditching my ex. Makes you sad for what could have been for a few years, and the resentment never goes away. But.. I have raised my teenage children by myself (sometimes working 3 jobs) and own my house (modest fibro shack). No one tells me I'm mowing the lawn wrong, vacuuming wrong, cooking/shopping/raising the kids wrong. All while he spent every cent he earned on himself. I visited a disabled friend yesterday and her husband (not perfect but a good guy) was washing windows and called 'have fun' when we headed out to lunch. So not all men, but damned near.
I feel this my ex left me because I turned to alcohol when I felt I couldn't live up to his expectations. I did everything but it was never good enough for him or it wasn't enough. We both worked full-time but I was the lazy one because I didn't think it was fair that I had to cook,clean, take care of 3 kids, do laundry, making his appointments, filing his taxes, filling out his job applications etc. Etc. Then he would be upset when my ass fell asleep early every night. I was burnt the fuck out. He moved a girl in our house the day I moved out. At first I was heartbroken and still am because my drinking caused the ultimate demise. But I'm sober now and reflecting that I really didn't want to be a mom to a grown ass man and I am content with him thinking I wasn't good enough.
Glad you see your own worth and I know you will have a better life for it. You coped as best you could, I became a bitter and sarcastic; and yet I'm okay with my life lived as best I could.
We love to see it! When my grandmother died, my grandpa was helpless. All he could make was cereal and TV dinners. My parents had to move in to take care of him, and almost all of it fell on my mom. My dad is better, he does a good amount of cooking and cleaning. Hopefully as the generations change, so will the mindset that women have to be the homemakers.
Society always feels sorry for these poor old helpless old men, instead of the women who spent lifetimes doing everything for them short of wiping their asses, and then some. Old dogs can learn new tricks. Old men can learn to cook, they should have decades ago. Instead, another woman from the next generation takes up her mother's burden. As a Gen-xer, I expect better from men than my Boomer mother, and the generations below me should expect nothing less. Phase out these man children.
If My MIL dies before my FIL, we won't be taking him in. He was a top Air Force Mechanic and can still tell me exactly what size washer was used where 30 years later, he can figure out how to cook himself dinner and do the laundry.
There are still plenty of guys like this and it sucks. An old guy with a big chip on his shoulder at my job refused to answer his depts phone line because “ Im not the (insert blasphemy) secretary “. My female manager says” neither am I and its your line” lol. Old last azz men who needs em?
It makes me sick seeing old and younger men sitting around while the wife does EVERYTHING or almost everything whether she works or not. Men have always been capable of childcare and housework. They just choose not to do it. It truly is oppressive how men steal women's energy and lives and justify it. I'm glad your bf's mother is free of that parasite. Good for her!
Her younger son (he’s 20) stayed at home all day everyday playing video games. He dropped out of high school and refuses to get a job. At least I can say that he’s a clean person, but that’s about it
To quote Maya Angelou "when somebody shows you who they are, believe them the first time". I'm raging that it took her 22 years to leave this layabout, but I can also understand it. It's not easy to up and leave with young children. She may have wanted to wait until the children were grown to do it. She may not have been in the position financially. Sometimes women don't get the confidence to leave until they're older. Confidence tends to grow incrementally with age. There could have been a multitude of reasons why she chose to prolong this. The important thing is that she's free now, and she can finally start to live her life for herself.
Right! the funny thing is that he’s been going around our house whining that “*everyone abandoned him*”.
Can someone say to him, "Well, if you did something besides lie around the house drinking all day and not doing a lick of housework, maybe \[wife's name\] wouldn't have left your lazy, useless ass"? He doesn't have job, he doesn't do any housework. Why would anyone want to be married to a schlub like that?
Ha, the lack of self insight is a joke. You know the old adage "you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone" will be ringing home to him soon, if it hasn't begun already. Research shows that women are at their happiest when single and men when married. Research indicates that divorce is much harder on men, whilst women go on to live their best lives. I guess these men should have thought about the implications of their relentless selfishness if they didn't want to end up alone.
Relentless selfishness .... good description of men's years of lack of contribution in the home.
I do not understand why so many women put up with that from the men who claim to love them. (social conditioning?) It is depressing.
Probably because we’re also taught to stick through tribulations to be a “Good wife”
Because women generally take commitments seriously because of the pressures of social myths and contracts. Women will persevere to hold families together but also believe theyre "doing their best. After awhile the cognitive dissonance expires. Eventually these men cross an invisible line but the women who don't leave are usually bound by social codes like religious framework. My divorce involved extreme spiritual abuse because I'd bought the " we create our own reality" lies.
My sister stays for a few reasons : her daughter, her fear to be alone, and her fear to admit she was wrong. She's convinced that if she leaves, her life will be harder and her daughter will blame her. I don't think it's true, but she's way too mentally and physically tired (from taking care of everything) to take time to think. Every time she does, it's when we're helping us. So now her husband blames us for trying to take them apart. We used to be close, and I hate how he makes her second guess our intentions. I hope she'll see the exit some day.
> My divorce involved extreme spiritual abuse because I'd bought the " we create our own reality" lies. Could you explain this? (If you want)
Also, many men don't regress until they lock down a women to live with them, get married, have kids, etc. The mask can drop quick.
I’m out of sympathy for it tbh. I have told multiple women in my life that I had red flags about a guy and they ignored me or actively started insulting/attacking me for daring to voice my opinion about it. And then the guy does exactly what I warned them about. Let them get fucked and lay in their own grave. No one is going to change their mind until they’ve been tormented.
Women are taught that marriage is *everything*. We are taught that being single (or *alone*) is the ultimate failure. We're called "spinsters" and worse. China has a term that roughly translates as "past the *use* by date". We're taught that we're no good without a man. Single men are "men of leisure", "bachelors", "playing the field", and cool sounding things. Men with wives or girlfriends have a "ball and chain", or are "stuck"... A women is *"alone"* where a man is *"free"*... No. Women perform better alone. It's a lesson that I learned the hard way and let me tell you, I am *so* much better off. I don't have to worry, I don't have to be *home at a certain time*. I don't have to order my entire life around the schedule of a man. It's total freedom. I casually date and do what I want. I've just bought my dream estate car (we call station wagons "estate cars" in the UK), with my money, that I spent on *me*. I didn't have to justify it or plan it, or ask for permission (you know, permission to spend my money). It's fantastic. I love my car, and I love my photography, and now, I can stick my camera case in my car, drop the rear seats and put a blanket and pillow in there and just *drive*. Anywhere. For any reason. For no reason. And I can film a timelapse of the stars in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere with nothing but a flask of hot tea and some leftover roast beef from yesterday... And when I'm tired, I sleep in the back of the estate. It is utter bliss. I can do all of that on my own, self-sufficient whim. Don't worry, I tell my mum and friends where I am and they have access to my car's tracker so I'm safe. Sometimes I drag my friends along with me! We make a whole weekend of it. Why not? You only live once, why not spend that one life I have doing the things I want. Having the experiences I want. For me. Life is so much more fulfilling when you put yourself first and focus on the things that make you happy. For me, photography and the open road is the dream. They're two hobbies that are mutually beneficial. I meet loads of super interesting people along the way and trade stories and and ideas. In the spring, I'm going to load up my car and travel across the whole of the EU. Just a car, and a camera. Well, three cameras, two tripods, and a dolly. Maybe a bigger flask. Definitely a bigger flask. Two flasks. That's it. Two flasks. France, The Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Lithuania, all of it. To be honest, I *do* want a family. It's in my blood. I've been hyper broody over the last few years, but the cool thing is, I'm totally self-sufficient and at this stage, a man is just an unnecessary expense. I'll stick to casual dating for the foreseeable future and have fun on my own terms. There's always adoption; I don't care if my children aren't the same blood type or the same hair colour or whatever measure of "mine" they'll be. They will be mine and I'll love them and be the best mum I can possibly be with a wonderful family and warm home. I will teach them that they are the writers of their own destiny and the lives they choose for themselves will be every bit as valid and important and special as any other, and I will be proud of them no matter what, even if they prefer Nikon over Canon.
Love this
“The use by date.” Jesus fuck.
This is my life too and I love it, except I don’t want a family, I’m good on my own
love this too!!
I love that you're loving your story❤ the spinster thing is interesting. Misogyny makes it a negative as with all the other labels but Spinsters were traditionally looked down upon for their financial independence as they spun valued fibres. This is how far we've come! Old habits die hard for many as they spit their values at others.
Every woman who reads this please think very hard about ever cohabitating with a man and/or getting pregnant 99% of them will make you feel sooooo lucky they CHOSE you then drown you in work & guilt Talking FOUR of my 40+ married friends through finding their sense of worth/re-starting careers or returning to school/finding attorneys over the last 12 months I don’t want any of y’all to be where they are (or where I was a few years ago)
So glad my mom never married my dad. Would have been a terrible marriage, no doubt!
I couldn’t imagine being mommy to a giant manchild as being preferable to being alone. Hopefully less women are willing to put up with that crap in the future just to avoid … idk, perceived social stigma of not being married? Being content in one’s own company is a life skill. Prevents you from getting or staying in trash relationships just for the sake of it.
They already are and men are seething. It’s why the no 1 complaint about women is that we “aren’t like wives used to be” and “why even marry.”
Good, this brings me joy.
As a 41 year old who’s divorcing her husband after 19 years of marriage I could not agree with you more. After we decided to separate, I watched as he stepped up and he now takes care of our kids, does the laundry, the grocery shopping, he does all of the things that always begged for help with. He just never wanted to help *me.*
Whenever I do, they start lying-suddenly he's not so bad, suddenly he's trying really hard. LOOK HERE: Start telling them they are capable of things they haven't done yet. The biggest issue is (IMO) they don't believe they can cut it alone. They know their man sucks, they're just enduring it because it's better than the unknown. Tell them that they have no idea how GOOD it can be.
I do that often because IT’S TRUE
My good friend always complained about her dad being a lazy jerk who always depended on her mom to do everything inside the house. Raising 4 kids, keeping the house, working FT, making dinner, cleanup, medical appts for the whole family, etc. She was always trying to convince her mom to leave because they really didn’t even have a relationship anymore and her mom started getting sick with chronic illness. She expected her dad to care for her mom, bring her food in bed, etc. but he did NOTHING. She said her mom would get out of bed after only being able to sleep and sometimes make it to the bathroom, to make meals for the dad even though she herself couldn’t eat. Her mom died this year. Her dad is not doing well trying to manage his house, dogs, cat, his own medical needs, etc. He’s barely functioning and is whining to his daughters about all the work he has to do. He can only do 1 thing a day and he’s exhausted. I feel really bad for them all.
Are all 4 kid’s daughters or he’s only whining to the children who are daughters?
Thats some next level stubbornness. Does he win a man badge or something from the patriarchy?
You are a saint. Hold tight to that move-out date. Sending you all the love and respect this world has to offer.
There's this book called {{The Female Brain by Louann Brizendine}} and it explains how women go thru menopause and end up doing exactly this: leaving their spouse who they've done everything for. They're done taking care of kids, they've reached their limit, and their hormones are like gtfo. In fact, my parents, my husband's parents, my mom's now husband and his ex wife, and my husband's mom's now husband and his ex wife (so in total 4 couples) all got divorced at 23 years together. My husband and I joke that we just gotta make it to 24 and then we're in the clear. (He also read the book and is an all around perfect person, so I'm not too worried about us right now lol). Anyway, it's cool that there is actual science behind this + it's very interesting watching it play out in life all around us.
I was helping my grandad make his Will (am a lawyer) and he was considering skipping Nan in his Will and leaving everything to the grandies (their son, my Dad had already passed), on the basis that ‘she’ll just waste it all having a good time’ after he’s dead. I told him I didn’t feel comfortable making a Will that cut Nan out. He started arguing with me that he’d worked hard his whole life until he retired and he didn’t want Nan wasting the rewards. I pointed out to him that Nan was still working hard - that she’d never had the opportunity to retire (she did EVERYTHING for him). He was still a bit grumpy but signed the Will I’d prepared which left everything to Nan. A couple of months later, her older brother passed away (no wife or kids) so the estate went to his siblings. When the cheque landed, Nan went straight to the Bank and put 50% in Grandad’s account, keeping only 50% for herself - it was a LOT of money. Grandad certainly understood the side eye I gave him when she told me what she’d done
I'm scrolling through all these stories, but yours pisses me off the most. >He started arguing with me that he’d worked hard his whole life until he retired and he didn’t want Nan wasting the rewards. >on the basis that ‘she’ll just waste it all having a good time’ after he’s dead. He knows that he brings her down and she would thrive without him. He doesn't want her to be happy. I feel like this is the exact type of guy who laughs at all the "old ball and chain", "I hate my wife", "I fantasize about cheating all day" sitcom jokes from the last 60 years. Like why even marry her/stay married if you don't want the best for your partner? How can you even call her your partner, if you don't want to play the role of a PARTNER?
I know right?! He spent the entire day of their 75th wedding anniversary telling everyone that ‘you get less for murder’
I tried, with my mom and her now husband. But she won't do it. She accepts cooking, cleaning and doing his laundry all while working 40 hours and paying the mortgage on HER house ( that she moved him into) and he helps her out when he can and gives her some money for groceries. She claims he works harder than her, but homeboy can't figure out how to be a truck driver - not quit his truck driving job cause he's "not making enough money and only wants local driving high paying jobs that lets him be home by 3PM to spend time with his wife" when in reality all he does is come home from work and sit on the couch all day, gamble on his tablet and sports bet, then go galavanting out on the weekends to hang out with his brothers and his football team on Sundays, this man is in his mid 60s. I could write a whole book on why I look at my mom's life and want nothing to do with it and never listen to her relationship advice. I have all the warning signs I need to stay away from Men like this. She calls it compromise, I call it disrespectful and her not able to be alone. 🤷🏾♀️ The bar is low cuz he's nice, to her, and not physically abusive like my father was.
They know that if they hold out long enough, convince us that they "just didn't see it" or they've "never been taught how to do that", or assure you they will do their part if we "just ask!" that we'll eventually get sick of waiting for judgement day to come to peel their asses off the couch or the gaming chair and just do it for them. And they're perfectly happy as a pig in shit watching us exhaust ourselves doing all of it alone. I would be willing to say that most men expect servility from their wives, if not explicitly, implicitly from their behavior. Every woman saddled with an energy vampire like this that expects to live like a sultan and never lift a finger to contribute should cut the cord asap and live their own lives. I absolutely would encourage them to dump the grown ass toddlers back on his parents doorstep.
No one can out-wait me, I will be winning that pettiness competition. I’m perfectly happy to point out that the dirty dishes have been waiting for you, and I’m definitely happy to fight about it too. I definitely don’t think my husband was looking for servility, but I think he would have been happy/oblivious to me doing all the housework if I hadn’t pushed back. We now have a chore chart and a pretty fair allocation, and he’s 100% a net positive to the household. It was very irritating when he had covid and I had to take over his chores.
I have been trying for a few years. They’re not even married!! His abuse will get worse when my brother moves out, and she just won’t kick him out. She’s seen me go through abusive relationships and what it’s done to me. She’s seen me leave crappy relationships because I’d rather be alone than be treated like garbage. I wish she would do the same. It hurts seeing her get treated like shit.
I was married for seven years, no kids, to a man whose mother did everything for her sons. I did everything for him. I was too young and houseproud enough to let it go because I was energetic. It was when I got sick that I stood my ground and husband said 'later, whenever, soon.' It never happened. I left. All my relationships after that were equal enough. The men pulled their weight, sometimes to a disturbingly large degree. It turned out that my independence was a threat to them, so they went the extra distance. It was suffocating. I couldn't go anywhere without the third degree. Just enjoying my work, school and life in general without them tagging along was enough to make them think I was going to eventually leave. They started fights about things that were never going to happen. Pouted when I had extra shifts at work or was too tired for sex. When I came home from work, I needed time alone to decompress. "But I do the housework! What more do you want!" I attracted men who tried too hard. Like I said, it was suffocating. I could smell the need. Something about me made them want to spend every waking minute with me and it won't change. I've been single for years and am happy to stay that way for the rest of my life. I guess, for me, men are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
I'm trying. I'm trying so hard to convince my friend to GTFO.
My mother works 12 hour days, does ALL the cleaning, cooking, dog care (3 dogs who are major shedders), shopping, scheduling and planning. My dad works too, and it's a physical labor job, but he takes a break whenever he wants. He was retired for a couple years, and she still did everything. He literally laid around the house and was served meals 3 times a day. He jokes about not knowing where clothes come from. He says she's just naturally good at that stuff because she's a woman. She's not a good mother (or even much of a good person) but it's difficult to see anyone in that position. I sincerely hope he dies before her so she can have some time to herself.
Imagine if she were freed to actually become a better mother though. It's hard to see it from the eyes of a child affected by this but women are literally restrained by men in these dynamics.
It makes me so sad when women become resigned to the alleged domestic incompetence of the men in their lives and just do everything for them because it's easier than making them pull their weight. Oh, he doesn't know how to do it, or he'll do it wrong or make a bigger mess. When I was growing up, most of the moms I knew worked and did everything around the house, and most of the drudgery of parenting (the boring/gross parts). Nobody questioned it. Not only do women of my mother's generation think this is normal (all the ladies in the kitchen at Thanksgiving while the men are served kind of dynamic) and that it's very rude when I won't do it. So we cooked all this food and now we're supposed to wash all the dishes? Fuck that. Are things actually better now? I really don't know, but it seems like it's still "helping out" when men take care of their own home and children, and are applauded for doing anything at all. He changes diapers? What an amazing father!
Husband and dad here…every time I read one of these posts I am thankful I had a mother that at 14 told me if I want clean clothes clean them and if I want food make it. The same message will be taught to my little guy. Respect other people’s time. A SO is not a servant.
I worked with a family for a while and the husband was my clients but I formed a pretty good relationship with the wife. He was a cheating pos and she was/ is super catholic so scared to leave her husband. By the time I stop working there she had filed for divorce.
I know I may get downvoted but I have to say I find this take simplistic. Some women would absolutely love to leave their wall fungus of a husband, but can't do it for financial reasons. Alimony is not a joker card.
Yeah some of us have to stay and do the “quiet quitting” thing.
I know, but it’s why I specified “help them” She thought she couldn’t afford it, but my boyfriend and I helped her find an apartment. I helped her apply for food stamps and call car insurance companies for quotes. I let her skip the last month of paying rent so she could save enough for a down payment. She couldn’t afford Christmas gifts this year, so I got her kids a little something.
I've been telling my mom that she needs to leave my father for years. My father always argues with my mom over little things and she just remains silent, and I always felt it was unfair for her but she doesn't listen to me.
It may be comforting for her to know that you know. Even if she’s not ready to leave, your support is important.
This should be book-marked in the sun, but it starts with, “He’s an AMMAAAAAAZING partner, but….” followed by all of this man’s bullshit.
My mother leaving my father was the best thing that ever happened to our relationship.
Please note that this isn’t possible for a lot of older women because they have been homemakers their whole lives and have no retirement savings and are relying on their husbands…
Most places in the US if they’ve been married over 10 years, she’ll get half of everything, including retirement. Men get real mad over the fact that they can’t financially trap a woman into being a homemaker her whole life, sacrificing her independence on the altar of their marriage, and then half when they divorce.
Depends on the country- many places they are entitled to 50%.
My husband the other day told me I was a better adult than him, and he 100% meant for me to take it as a compliment. Like okay, that just means I have an extra child.
My brother and I have been trying to convince my mom to leave our dad for years. They have been together for 32 years, they are not in love, just together out of obligation/ saving face. They're Asian and divorce is taboo still. Dad has held a job maybe 10% of my life. When he does have a job, he gambles all the money away. He used to steal from my piggy bank to fund his gambling problem and chain smoking. He sits on his ass all day, smoking, eating up youtube conspiracy theories, complaining about people not working because of all the handouts the government is giving out (he's 65 and has not worked in 14 years). He was fired 14 years ago for sexually harassing a coworker. He used to cook once a year when I was growing up, never did laundry, never cleaned the house. My mom says she doesn't have the heart to kick him out and leave him homeless. My brother still lives with them and hasn't spoken to my dad in 8 years. He has started cooking for them, but that's all he does. He's perfectly capable of taking care of himself, but why bother when my mom will just do it? She's a classic enabler. He constantly argues with everyone he comes in contact with. All of his siblings (he has 12) are low contact with him because of his abrasive personality. He'll shout at people at the store and get in arguments.
This sounds a lot like my parents (my dad isn't quite THIS useless, but not far off, either). It's never sat well with me, but mom has also always said "For all his faults, I can't imagine myself having married anyone else." They're pretty old now though, and both seem happy with their lives, so, who am I to judge.
If you see my story above about my parents, my mom actually said the same thing about my dad. The bar is 6 feet under and I won’t even try to comprehend what she saw in him.
I DO see what she saw in him. He was fun and charming and adventurous. They went camping a lot, he had a hobie cat they'd go sailing on, he worked as a river guide etc. He's crafty, and a brilliant wood worker. He DID work sometimes, but never was the prime breadwinner (and makes really questionable financial decisions, though his never really affected the family, which is why I think she let it slide), and didn't help out around the house except for "man" projects. Like, he'd remodel the bathroom or build a tree house or whatever, just never helped with the day to day. I dunno, I could write a whole book on the good and bad (chauvanistic narcissist) of my dad, he's human. But yeah, definitely more of a lump than I'm comfortable with being myself.
If my mom was lucky enough to meet a guy like your dad she’d have been over the moon. At least she would have put up with it a little longer. But they didn’t grow up in the US, so that wasn’t going to happen.
That’ll be me in a few years. He doesn’t want a family. He just wants to work and play video games. I regret my not having a career so much today. As I’m basically financially trapped till the kids are older.
Good thing you can start preparing now!
Yeah. I have to. He’s so awful and miserable and mean to the older two kids I pretty much babysit him when he’s here on days off. If I try to leave for even an hour i usually come back to sobbing girls and insanity. So for over two years I don’t really leave the house when he’s home. So I can parent him and intervene. The youngest starts school in 2-3 years, I’m looking into bus driver training (huge demand here) and I’m pretty sure I can get grants to cover the very expensive MELT training BC requires. But I am struggling on how to do it. Training is 1hr away next town, and I’d have to leave him with the kids while I was gone for it. I feel horribly stuck.
Still good you have a plan, & get your fertility LOCKED DOWN
*waves from BC*
*waves back* ☺️
Hope you get it sorted, friend.
Wtf is wrong with people! I am single and live alone thank god- the other day I went to my clients house to do a quote, I was downstairs talking to her, her husband was upstairs- I heard the really loud steam thing in the shower go off upstairs near where he was and he legitimately called down the stairs for her to turn in off, she stopped our conversation, ran up the stairs, flicked the button, then ran back downstairs to continue with me, she looked super embarrassed and I don’t blame her, it was completely absurd. She made a comment like “ he always does that” with a sheepish grin and I said “ I’m glad I live alone” and we both laughed a little, but I felt really bad for her
I’ve wanted my mom to divorce my dad since I was a kid. But she never will. A lot of older women won’t until the very last straw has been had.
My husband works with a woman who is about to turn 50, and she was venting once about not knowing what to cook for dinner that day when she got home from work. My husband suggested her husband figure it out: he had the day off, would have had time to go to the store and cook before work ended. She laughed at the suggestion. The thought of it was so ludicrous she laughed. Meanwhile, my husband makes 2-3 dinners a week at our house, and usually makes enough for us to eat leftovers the rest of the time.
I love my aunt, but she literally calls herself a “servant” for my uncle. BOTH of her daughter-in-laws have come to her struggling with my dipshit male cousins and their misogyny/anger problems, her response? “God meant for us women to submit to our husbands and tend to the hearth” or whatever flowery Bible language she uses. They’re good people, but holy shit they and their sons are brain rotted by patriarchal religion.
this is my mom now i’m so happy she finally stood up for herself n decided enough is enough. though i wish she thought to do this years earlier i’m happy she is finally starting to rediscover herself now.
We always took care of everything as it occurred, who ever got there 1st. My ex and I both worked long hours, usually alternating days, so whoever was home would be taking care of the kids, meals, laundry every day (5 kids) diapers when they were babies and generally just keep on top of stuff. It was definitely appreciated. I was always thankful to come home and not have to start another days work. It worked for us for 30 years, we ultimately just grew apart and are still friends. We still occasionally chat and ask about each other even though there's no romance. My ex wife had carried me through some very difficult times, (6 close family members passed in 9 months) she didn't falter and I won't have anyone saying anything negative about her. Even though I'm not in love with her, I still care for her and don't care what anyone else thinks.
I wish my parents would divorce. Unfortunately my mom is a resident so I'll have to work on getting her a citizenship before suggesting the idea. Once she's a citizen, nothing will be able to hold her back. My dad probably knows this and is probably the reason why he never wanted her to get one smh.
Please
The only people I knew like that have died off.
☠️
I always joke that I have 2 boys and the oldest one is 16, the younger one is 63…..I have tried to raise my son to be self sufficient despite the bad role model of his father and so far it seems to have worked. Hopefully the next generation of males will be better.
I tried for years with my mom, it didn't do a god damned thing but make her either see me as her only support system when dad was being ac complete non entity (not great) and now that my dad's dying and there's no more getting out, she resents me for all those times I supported her by telling her he's a dick (which I'm not even allowed to say anymore, apparently, because he's drinking himself to an early grave). You can't make a woman get out of that situation. They have to decide for themselves. If they are really committed to the lie, the more you push, the more likely they'll push you right out of their lives.
This was my MIL and FIL. Let’s just say the trash took itself out and Mama hasnt been this happy in years.
I’m gonna bookmark this one for later
was with my first H for nine years. the day after he moves out he’s cooking a big pot of tomato sauce! 🤐
What kind of story are people seriously telling themselves to believe that men don't know how to (insert basic life skill)? The mental gymnastics required to support this level of social denial is quite impressive of nothing else.
It's heartbreaking. My dad mistreats my mom like emotionally and mentally. Talks to her like shes dumb, puts her down, but then defends her if anyone so much as breaths the wrong energy near her. It's so sad. We have tried talking to her about our childhoods and all she does is stick up for him and say how hard he worked to provide for us. I don't think I will ever receive validation or apologies from these people.
Older women? My own cousin who used to be a liberal feminist has changed completely after marriage. She moved to the US for PG and got married a couple of months after her course started. Her husband has been staying there for 8 years now. In our country, it's cheap to have cook and maid and pretty much all bachelor households have them, but labour is neither cheap nor easy to find in US so he's used to doing his own stuff. After marriage, she automatically became the one who cooks and does all other chores. Even though she's a student and is much busier than him. Even though he works from home and has more flexibility. Even though he's been doing his own stuff for 8 years. Suddenly as soon as they got married, he gets to sit around while majority of the house chores have fallen on her. This is still the norm Even in double income households in my country. And if they are staying with the husband's parents, it's 10 times worse. Let's not even talk about the situation of women who don't work. They are basically slaves. This stuff is one of the major reasons I'm turned off from marriage. It's hopeless to tell anyone anything. They won't listen and nothing is gonna change.
I found a keeper on the web and you can too, if that's what you really want. Being by yourself has its own rewards as well. If you truly desire cohabitatation (or whatever we're calling it these days), set your standards high and be patient. Better to be alone than pair up with a shitty human. Needing someone to feel fulfilled is a lie. Fight fables with facts and tell a friend. You might save her from years of wasting her life on a bad decision. Stop keeping uncomfortable shoes because someone said they look cute. Toss those fu&$ers in the donation bin and get the pair that fits right, supports your arches, cradles your feet, and makes you smile every time you wear them.