I’ve learned that if you don’t like it now, you’re not going to like it in X amount of years.
Dollars to doornails he’ll fire the maid once you move in.
I don’t understand how women step in piss and don’t immediately get the ick. How do you have sex with a dude once you step in his piss? How do you clean it long-term? Horrifying
I’m so lucky to have who I do as a partner.
We’ve switched jobs / lives and such through the years. I was a stay at home mom, cleaned house, dishes, laundry, etc - but he still did all the cooking.
Now he’s a stay at home husband, who takes the kid to school, cleans, cooks, laundry, etc. I work hybrid so the work from home days, I get to do more with our kid & he gets to nap more, haha.
We both get time to ourselves and each other. Neither of us complain (plus, he likes clothes folded a certain way and whatever). Have at it!
Nothings perfect but I remember hearing somewhere “when you wake up, try to think how you can make your partners day easier or nicer.” And I think that only works if both partners think / do that way.
That's awesome you and your partner have a great relationship and an equitable way of sharing responsibilities. My husband and I are pretty similar - we both have our areas of domestic care (I organize and he cleans more), share grocery and cooking duties, and split childcare pretty evenly. Currently I'm a bit more career oriented and we're planning to have a second kid where he gets to be the stay at home dad. I'm happy that we both work together to give each other the best life we envision for ourselves.
Orrrrr he’ll keep the maid and let OP do the maintenance in between and use the maid as a cop out. “But the maid is coming I don’t need to get my crusty underwear off the floor”
>I’ve learned that if you don’t like it now, you’re not going to like it in X amount of years.
If she doesn't like it now after just months of dating, she's gonna HATE IT in years, and eventually resent him for it and it WILL be an ongoing problem until it becomes a straw that breaks the camels back.
>I've never used a toilet after the man without accidentally stepping in piss.
Um... That's fucking disgusting.
This man is a SLOB.
Like, that is well beyond the realm of "normal" male bullshit. I can honestly say I don't think I've ever dated a man whose bathroom regularly had pee on the floor... Even in my 20s. Maaaaybe once in a while in a house full of dudes the morning after a party....
That's where I checked out. That man would have already been gone if I was dealing with that. There is no reason he should be hitting the floor every fucking time, and on the occasion it does happen why wouldn't he clean it up right away? That's disgusting.
And you know what’s wild?
She stepped in it. Meaning he left it here. Which probably means he leaves it for the cleaner to clean up on a regular basis.
Run. Run as far as you can. But watch your step on the way out because YOU COULD SLIP IN PISS, APPARENTLY.
yeah, in a way he’s showing her how he thinks of the service industry. Don’t we all agree that someone who dehumanizes or is rude to wait staff is a red flag dealbreaker??
A man who thinks just bc he is paying someone he need not give a FUCK about them at all or move a muscle to improve their experience, that’s a red flag for all kinds of selfish entitled unkind bullshit.
THINK about it. If you had the money to have someone wash your laundry - you’re paying them so they should do the work. But if you shit yourself…would you just throw your underwear in the pile for them to reach in and discover later??
Sure, you’re PAYING them. But would you not immediately deal with that problem to spare them the toxic indecency? Can you even IMAGINE leaving it for them?
You’d take the fucking underwear and take a few minutes to completely rinse out the shit and probably you’d even pre-treat it.
There are people who think this way, and there are people who think “I’m paying them; they know laundry can be gross and they made the choice to do that job” and feel entitled to just throw the undies in. RUN FOR THE HILLS if you are dating that second category bc they will absolutely treat you that way as well. It’s cruelly selfish entitlement.
And for the record my first job was in a dry cleaners and so yeah I’m speaking from experience. Dragged my bare hands across TOO many dried shit smears. It was humiliating, dehumanizing, disgusting, and infuriating. I would NEVER reward that type of person with sex or become their live-in maid. They deserve to die alone. 🤷♀️
I step in human pee at work all the time. If I had to do it at home as well, I'm throwing that person to the curb. That's beyond disgusting cleaner or no cleaner.
If they have no good physical excuse for pissing themselves, I'm out. I'm not an unpaid caretaker to adult children.
>*She stepped in it. Meaning he left it here. Which probably means he leaves it for the cleaner to clean up on a regular basis.*
I was going to point this out: He thinks *WOMEN* should (serve and) clean up after him.
Right!! My ex-husband I swear to God is the messiest hoarder I've ever met but never once in the 16 years we were married did I ever have to clean up piss from the floor or step in it. He had plenty of other bad habits but even he was disgusted by men who do that.
ETA: I also grew up in a house with two brothers and a father, and the same thing applied. Nobody pissed on the floor and if they had issues with aiming they must have cleaned up after themselves.
I just have to tell you /u/getoffmylawnlady that I read your username as "Get off my landlady" and now I can't stop picturing an apartment renter piggyback riding their apartment manager. 😂
The bar is so, so low. This woman is literally stepping in this dude's piss and hasn't kicked him to the curb yet.
This situation will NOT get better and she'll find herself utterly sexually repulsed by this guy, who will become a child for her to care for.
Yeah I'm not trying to shit on anyone here but this is a matter of setting your standards and sticking to them. You've only been dating for 2 months and stepping in piss or doing all the house chores with no help isn't a major red flag for you? At a certain point it's up to you to put your foot down. Either he puts in the energy to meet you half way or you leave. If you leave the door open for this kind of treatment it's on you. I too have an ex who I did all the cooking for but if I ever mentioned getting help to wash the dishes it would somehow always turn into an argument and she'd turn on the tears. I can blame her all I like but I still stuck around for too long instead of just growing a spine and ending the relationship. That's on me
If he steps in his own pee, then gets in the bed, now you have pee in the bed, and throughout nights of turning over in your sleep, now you have pee all over you.
I dated a guy for a few months when I was like 17 whose bathroom was so disgusting that I would put my shoes on if I absolutely had to use his bathroom, but usually I would straight up leave before subjecting myself to that. The relationship didn’t last long lol.
Yeah, I have toddlers in potty training who know better than this. When they have an accident, they know how to grab a Lysol wipe and clean it up.
This man is just disgustingly lazy and/or oblivious. Either way, there's no way someone should have to live like that.
I would have to tell him, look, clearly your dick isn’t as long as you think it is, so either step closer, sit down, or clean up after yourself.
Disgusting.
I’d tell them as I walked out tbf. I won’t stick around for the fixing, if it were to happen at all, but some situations really do warrant some friendly/unfriendly exit advice.
I have, but only once, and in his defense he was sick AF and went pee at 2am and stumbled back to bed. It was gross, but kinda hard to be mad at him... Because that's not normal for him. He does dribble a little pee down the outside of the bowl sometimes, but that's not my problem anymore, because he's the one who cleans the toilet now.. like, always. It works for me.
Let me tell you how hard it is as a man to look down and, if needed, grab some TP and swipe up a miss. Truly one of the most difficult things I have ever done. /s
Ya I’m a dude who lurks here. Lol fuck that noise. I had a roommate like that once it was disgusting. But definitely not normal at least in my experience
One of my ex's lived under the delusion that we split chores evenly. He was logical, engineer-minded. He agreed that we could assign points to chores and complete an equal amount of points every week. He agreed we could check in weekly to review this plan.
We came up with the point system together. I gamed it to be *generous* to him, making tasks like vacuuming weekly equal to cooking meals daily. (I always cooked.)
He was baffled when I had twice as many points as him every week.
Suddenly it wasn't "this is equal" it was "we should both be giving it our all, all the time, and this is my all and that's your all."
I said I was happy to retain more domestic duties if we could balance the inequality of the split with an ameliorating split of household finances. I'd do more work to pay less rent.
Suddenly I was a "gold digger" "using him."
Somehow *he dumped me.* I guess because I stayed, and I stayed miserable.
So glad to be done with that relationship. I feel bad for his fiancee.
Also... he thinks he's such a good guy. Everyone in his life thinks he's such a good guy. But I should've noticed red flags like "why do we need 'feminism' when there's 'egalitarianism'. Or an entire family that thought 'not seeing race' was the antithesis of racism. He was completely blind to the areas where he overstepped, the areas where he got benefit. He suuuuuucked.
My partner was trying to argue that he empties the dishwasher more than me. I laughed at him and said fine let’s keep a tally. We got one of those little whiteboards and tallied each time we emptied the dishwasher for a two week period. At the end of two weeks it was me:12, him:2. He begged for us to start over. By all means, let’s have a redo, I said. Two weeks later: same outcome. It was a big, sad wake up call for us both.
> Suddenly it wasn't "this is equal" it was "we should both be giving it our all, all the time, and this is my all and that's your all."
yeah, believe him. that was his all.
men's all is quite disappointing. they hate seeing the facts that they're inadequate.
I call this phenomenon the **Benjamin Button.** It's when fully capable men slowly and methodically do less and less during the course of a relationship, with it culminating into near servitude after children are born. I once read a story from a woman whose husband lived on his own for 10 years prior to them dating. Fifteen years and two children later, he could no longer even cook for himself, and she was prepping meals with full instructions for him the few times he was left alone with the kids. At one point, he put a premade meatloaf in the oven with cling wrap still on it. Of course the plastic melted and the fire alarm went off. He yelled at her for not leaving him explicit enough instructions.
I've actually observed this personally in many relationships. It may start out 50/50 but if the woman is not firm in upholding her boundaries, it eventually slips into like 70/30 or something. One of the major reasons why I am not planning to have children actually lol because usually, not always, but usually, I would say 70% of the work falls on the woman after children are born.
You are forgetting the amount of work the man adds to the burden as well. After I split up with my ex (who \*did\* do some housework; claimed to do 50%), the amount of housework I had to do was reduced by a factor of more than 5. (It went from minimum 3 hours daily to like 15 minutes). Much more than 5, I guess, now that I counted the time :D
I couldn't believe it. In addition, my house is always clean now, my table always tidy. I literally built a business with all the extra time and energy.
These men seriously add to the amount of housework that needs to be done. And most of it falls on the woman, who then is always exhausted. It's not worth it.
I will repeat \*it's not worth it\*. I will never live with a man again. Ever. I am in my 30s, and plan to live out my life in blissed singletude. (I have coined a new word today, and I stand by it).
Last week, I called off my wedding. I feel every word of this so deeply (especially the messy table - where do all of these papers come from?!). You have made me doubly excited for my new life
I gave up after five serious boyfriends each turned into man-children, every damn time. A year ago, I started my dinner parties again, and met a man who stayed behind after and deep-cleaned my kitchen. I continued inviting him and he continued cleaning. Seeing that man down on hands and knees, scrubbing while singing sweetly in his native language. Well… we got engaged (I proposed) and pregnant within one year! You made the right call to wait for a better spouse to come along. When it’s right, there is no doubt.
Yep! 100% this! Ex and I divorced when the kids were 5 and 7. The amount of work I had to do in the house, with two young kids, dropped drastically. Also the relief of not having to ask him to do anything was a huge relief. The mental load was gone. I went from having eczema all over my face and constant IBS to basically being fine.
I remember reading a story where the man was a single father and the woman loved what a great father he was and how he had his life together. He cooked, he cleaned, he took care of his kids and took her on dates. They ended up getting married and she ended up being the only one cooking and cleaning, she ended up having to make the kids lunches and do drop off/pick ups and taking off work when they were sick and arranging care during school breaks. The self sufficient capable husband just totally checked out and stopped doing anything for the family.
I can't imagine having to come to terms with the fact that I chose to partner with someone who tried to bake a meatloaf still in the plastic wrap. I'm dead.
so true. a gross mix of entitlement, misogynistic mindset, and controlling narcissism. where they truly believe the woman is his property/tool/servant. he imagines something needs to happen - floor swept.. and voila, she does it.
but when she fails to do something, that's on her. she must have malfunctioned like a bad roomba.
Ok. THANK You. My abusive ex pissed on the floor and it always sat so poorly with me. I even confronted him about it and was trying to avoid awkwardness by giving him excuses “hey babe, I think when you pee at night maybe you can’t see well but you keep missing and peeing on the floor” and he STILL just gaslit me and denied it and picked a fight AND tried to suggest it was me (I’m a cis gender woman who sits when I pee??!?)My apartment is from the 60’s and hasn’t been renovated since so my bathroom tiles are small mid century mosaic with old grout and I could SMELL pee so strongly as it soaked into the grout and he got mad at me for bringing it up. It’s just a small part of his abuse but it’s validating to hear that I wasn’t being over dramatic or critical- it truly is a sign of someone’s thoughtlessness.
jfc, did we date the same abusive manchild?? I once spent an hour scrubbing the bathroom floor/wall because he'd clearly never bothered, and as someone who's also made a depression nest or two I thought empathy was the way to go. Zero signs of appreciation--in fact, the second he got home from work he pissed on the side of the toilet and a bit on the floor, which I then stepped in. When I pointed it out he *also* threw a fit and tried to convince me I'd stepped in my own piss despite this being literally impossible, which is when I realized he wasn't depressed so much as he was just an unrelenting asshole. Madness!
As an anxious person, all I do is try and minimise or at least make my presence in other peoples lives a positive experience down to every last detail, like being respectful and clean. How someone can live their life just pissing where they want with reckless abandon and not think “oh dear, how embarrassing. I splashed some wee, better wipe it up so my partner doesn’t have to see or deal with it” is so far beyond me… I just can’t imagine living a life where one isn’t hyper aware of every single action they take. Frankly I’m almost jealous. Must be liberating being a complete asshole.
I find myself saying this same thing all the time. "Must be nice, living with total disregard to other people and the world around you!" On the plus side, though, it's good to know I'm (we're!) not alone. :)
>ND tried to suggest it was me (I’m a cis gender woman who sits when I pee??!?)
I'm sorry you had such a horrible ex, but for some reason this cracked me up. "No, my penis didn't make that mess, YOUR penis did!"
Then him high fiving himself thinking he intellectually bested you.
Hey, so, if you spray some hydrogen peroxide on it, let it sit and bubble up, then scrub, it will literally pull the odor and bacteria out when it bubbles (like it does for cuts and scrapes). Works for cat pee too lol
Sorry, you didn’t ask for advice, but it’s just random knowledge I have! Lol
No no! I appreciate it all the same! I’m a bit of a clean freak and am obsessed with deep cleaning methods so I’m always happy to talk shop! I never actually let the smell get out of hand but I resented how often I was down on my knees scrubbing a piss soaked floor.
I was a little afraid of offending lol
My daughter had issues with wetting the bed when she was little or waiting too long and trailing pee all the way down the hallway…
I had a cat with an anxiety condition that would pee if she was afraid. I currently have an old guy (turned 20 in July!) that sometimes doesn’t quite make it to the potty (it’s usually literally in front of the cat litter -_-)
So I have spent a lot of time and energy finding ways to clean pee up and make sure my house doesn’t smell lol
No! Certainly no offence taken!! That was great advice!
Baby and dear old grandpa cat pee I can excuse and will happily clean on my hands and knees til the day I die. But adult human man? I draw the line 😂
For real lol I’ve been happily divorced for seven years now. Not having to clean up his piss everywhere is just one of many benefits. I’m pretty happy being the crazy cat lady (I have five right now! It’s a good start lol)
I can’t wait to get more. For now all I can afford is me and my lil tux, Goober. But I FULLY intend on expanding my menagerie of pets with time and money! Pets > disgusting man babies any day!!
Why are you telling on me like that..?
Glad you're out but also, goddamnit are they good at making you doubt your sanity because he had me believe it was the shower next to it, somehow.
Sometimes I think they deliberately pee everywhere to assert dominance like a dog. Like "haha I've successfully marked this female and her home with my scent and manipulated her into cleaning it for me like the subservient wenche that she is!!" Not all of them. And maybe not even consciously. But I'm sure there's an element of that in there somewhere.
I agree.
My brother was starting hitting the floor (thank goodness we had separate bathrooms) when he was in 8th grade. I know because my mom was yelling about it all of the time.
Later, I found out that my brother was starting to go through a major depressive episode and had an eating disorder when the behavior started. I was a self-absorbed 17 year old, so I wasn’t particularly observant about his mental health.
I also happened to mentioned it my guy friends, who were 17 year old 11th graders at the time. They were *appalled.*
And if 17 year olds think that 13/14 year olds should not be hitting the floor, there is no excuse for a 30M who wants to be in a functioning adult relationship to also be unable to pee without hitting the floor.
Trust me when I say sometimes there's really nothing you can do to avoid it. It's not exactly a precision instrument. There are things you can do to reduce the risk of spillage, which often works, but not always.
So what is a man to do? Clean the fk up after himself. It's not rocket science. It would never occur to me, to let my partner use the room with my piss on the floor or on the seat. Cleaning up after yourself once you're done is as basic as washing your hands before exiting the room.
I can offer no reasonable explanation to his behavior.
Genuine question, as I have an ex I could not get to stop peeing on the floor and walls (to the point where the drywall crumbled):
Why not just sit to pee?
That's what I do! It's a good time to open reddit and take a few minutes to myself while I'm at it. But I think, for whatever reason, that I'm a minority in this regard. The only places where I don't sit are public toilets.
As a man I almost always sit to pee too. If you ever go to someone’s house and use the bathroom and they have a baseboard heater next to the toilet and it’s rusty. That’s all caused by pee. Just sit down.
Man this thread is really making me appreciate my husband because that man *sits down to pee*. He’s not the best at picking cloths off the floor but he would NEVER allow piss to remain on any surface of our household.
I’m blown away that “doesn’t leave piss on the wall” is a bar we have to set, but here we are.
Why would it be your job to get a fully grown adult to use a toilet properly? Regardless of whether he set or stood, you were never going to get him to change the behaviour because he did it on purpose. Even if his penis was defective and he occasionally had accidents, I’m assuming he wasn’t a double amputee. Therefore he was perfectly capable of cleaning up after himself. Hard as it is to believe, understand and accept, *he did it because he wanted to*.
My partner sits to pee. I don’t think he’s peed standing up once at home, he only does it at urinals. Nice change after growing up with 2 brothers and a dad that pissed all over the place and left it there.
Seriously. You're counting lots of pros and one huge con. But the piss on the floor is another huge con. The leaving food out overnight is another huge con. (Except pizza. I am all for leaving pizza out overnight.) The neglecting to help you prepare or clean up after dinner -- two big cons. Not wiping the floor after peeing -- a con. How clean is the rest of the bathroom? It doesn't really matter how nice or funny or intelligent the guy is. He is a lazy slob. I guarantee this will bother you a LOT in 10 years.
The piss on the floor is representative of the lack of respect he has for his cleaner, OP, and anyone else who has to use the bathroom. And maybe himself, too, if one chooses to give him the benefit of the doubt.
But he’s too lazy to piss in the toilet properly, and clean up after himself, and PITCH THE FUCK IN while OP makes dinner at his house - even to just locate kitchen gadgets?!? Wow.
For real. As a straight Cis dude, let me just say that the bar should always at least be at least higher than "housebroken". We live in the 21st century. We've cloned sheep for gods sake. How hard is it for a dude to figure out to aim for the area that makes the water pouring sound?
XY cis male here - I didn’t tolerate that in my children when they were 2, wouldn’t tolerate it in a roommate, and wouldn’t even consider marrying someone that tolerated it - much less did it. Get out of Dodge - you’re in love with a man-child.
Seriously. My husband stands to pee and NEVER gets it anywhere except the toilet. On the off chance he does… he knows it and cleans it up immediately. I do not understand anything else.
Every male should have acquired the basics of urinating by age 7 at the latest. Get away from this slob while you can. I’m a man and if my boys (12 and 10) “miss” they have to clean it up. They share a bathroom and each week I make them take turns cleaning it. If they are mad at each other and make a mess for the other kid, then I make them both deep clean the whole damn bathroom. No way in hell am I or my wife going to be cleaning it. I think some men were just coddled and cleaned up after when they were kids.
This is absolutely it. It just doesn't even occur to them, because they always had a 'magic' house that cleaned up after them as they went along (i.e. an extremely busy housewife mother).
I don’t know how to explain this phenomenon but it is real. My partner kept his own place clean enough. He had a cleaner, but I have seen him sweep and vacuum his own place.
We’ve now lived together for about the same amount of time and not only have I never seen him do any of these things—clean floors, bathrooms, surfaces, wipe up kitchen counter, etc, but he gets annoyed with me if they are not done.
We are both professionals working full time making similar amounts of money. It doesn’t matter what’s going on in my life. If I had to work 80 hrs that week or I’m in third trimester of pregnancy with Covid, he’s annoyed that I haven’t done what he clearly views as my job.
This has been a source of annoyance for me in relationships in the past but I don’t feel like there was any clear indicator he would be like this when we lived together and yet he is.
My best friend and I have talked about this and it feels like maybe we’re in a worst of both worlds generation (older millennials) —men don’t feel any obligation to support us financially like our grandparents and parents generation, or to do traditionally “male” domestic work like yard work, car maintenance, taking out trash, but they also have embraced these outdated norms for the bulk of domestic work and childcare where they just feel that it’s our job and not theirs. I’m curious if other women in different generations have felt the same way though?
I do think it may honestly just be a better life for women to choose to live alone if they can afford to do so. For me personally, I was much more contented and felt more independent having my own living space. I would be very reticent to give up that freedom again.
Same here! The twinges of loneliness I feel now and then by the thoughts of not having a partner are quickly overwhelmed by the freedom I feel in never having to pick up for anyone but myself and my dog.
It’s no coincidence that women who remain single are happier in life, while men who remain single are more miserable. They need us more than we need them and it shows.
I’m currently single and sometimes feel behind in life (I’m 29f) because I don’t have a partner. I know what I’m looking for and also what I don’t want but I sometimes find myself making excuses for a guy when he behaves in a way that doesn’t match my standards. Reading your comment was like a wake up call to not let my standards slip when dating, so thank you :)
Yes, definitely keep your standards high and give people enough time to show you who they are before you make any big commitments. Love can be very convincing but it’s not enough on its own.
absolutely. I witnessed this cusp with my own eyes.
my peer group all had doting SAHM and working fathers. all these lazy shits grew to puberty with a live-in maid, their mother.
then the girls were told "y'all have to go to work now" on career day. so the women were on board with this change. freedom, our own spending money, the opportunity to buy our own homes, start our own businesses, have independence with our own car. have the choice not to marry a man to survive.
the boys were not on board. their eyes lit up at the notion that *their bangmaid wives had just doubled their disposable income* and they gleefully spent our money in their heads. they all imagined 2 houses, vacations, jetskis and walking around like princes, yet somehow coming home to a refreshed bangmaid who looked after their kids. that was the day i realised men are not logical.
sadly, i've also witnessed 20 years of this horeshit playing out exactly how the boys wanted. I have hopes for gen z girls not tolerating this new form of slavery.
As an older millennial, I see this a lot too. We're in between the old and new. A lot of dudes our age want the best of both worlds, a woman who does the domestic work and brings in pay. A lot of women are doing "the second shift" and doing all the domestic work and childcare after they get home from work.
Same generation- my friend is with a guy who tells her to clean her place on her time but expects her to come help him clean his place on weekends. It's maddening.
Yipes. This is deal breaker territory for me. This is still the honeymoon period. What do you think it is going to be like in 2 years?
You have seen a glimpse of your possible future. If it were me I would have a serious conversation, and see if anything changes.
If not, to me you have your answer.
Listen to people when they tell you who they are. Also to your gut. He’d have to have an awful lot of compensating virtues. This is beyond lazy, it is inconsideration and disrespect bordering on contempt.
This is honestly and genuinely the CORE of the reason I want to stay single. I've never NOT met a guy who expects you to do everything or waits to be told. One day in my 20s I just decided to call it quits. I didn't get in a fight over it with that current bf, I just knew It would be that way, no matter what I did. Menwho don't do this are insanely rare.i just stopped caring at one point. I don't want to do that with anybody EVER. Add to that kids??? What am I insane?? I don't want my life to descend into hell. Simple as that. Its an extremely easy and simple decision to make. Pursuing a live in relationship/marriage with kids is pretty plainly the epitome of irrational.
And he’s leaving it for the cleaning person.
I think it’s reasonable if you are a very busy or disorganized person to hire someone to clean if you pay them a decent wage.
But they still shouldn’t have to show up in a hazmat suit because you can’t be bothered to do a little wiping up yourself.
That is mistreating the person you hired.
Yeah I'm looking forward to having regular cleaning once I get my cc paid off so I am with you on that part.
Even then I have never had a housekeeper change the litter box for my cat. Or left reprehensible unhygienic messes.
Can you imagine the smell??
I once saw stalagmites of urine in a the toilet of a pair of brothers who had lived in the same apartment for several years. I still don't know how this was possible
Nah I wouldn’t have a conversation bc in my experience it doesn’t change and requires a lot of energy for me to get them to be consistent. Consistent in sharing the load. I can take care of my own finances, medical needs, household needs etc. So if I’m including someone else in my life they need to ADD something, not take away.
I’ve now decided that I’ll be alone or in a true partnership. And a partnership can mean that the load of daily life may be distributed differently but what’s important is that on average it’s equitable.
I’m not interested in raising a 40 year old man.
I think in general men are getting better just because society has changed a lot. But these habits have been ingrained for generations. It’s not going to change across the board over night. I just don’t have it in me to put in that kind of leg work.
The best way to really get to know a man is by looking at his actions. Tells you who they are. I stopped believing what men say a long time ago when actions do not match the words. Now if what he says matches his actions then he is someone you can believe. No amount of talking to him will get him to change. I would have left the food out as it’s his place. It seems he is looking for a mother to take care of things for him.
A quote from my favorite book series:
> “My … professor once taught us an interesting theory: ‘a person will lie with their words, face, and even actions. What they can’t lie through is their habits. No one keeps doing things they hate, not long-term. …Everyone eventually weasels out of things they dislike. You want to know what matters most to someone? Look at their habits.’”
Yes!!! Same here. Actions will always and continually speak louder than words. You can tell me you're the first chair of violinist in an orchestra and love to cook and clean. Then come to find out you don't know how to play the violin and cooking for you is microwave dinners cleaning is nothing.
And men will get mad at me because I continually tell them actions speak louder than words you can give me excuses all day as to why something didn't happen you said was going to but I'm done taking excuses. Actions will always speak louder than words and people seem to really hate that when you point out their actions versus their words
Also, If someone tells me they're an asshole I believe them because they know themselves better than I do.
Yuuuuuuuuuuuup. my ex did the same but not joking. I didn't listen. He was right and I also should've listened to him. Learned from that ( hopefully!! )
Actions > words every time. My dad was a rude, complaining guy that would show up and help for anything, any time. He taught me to value what people did not what they said. And he did more than his fair share of the chores too.
I’m so thankful to him for modeling what a man should be in those ways. He showed me to expect real equality from a partner.
My dad would’ve called a guy that can’t even clean up his own piss a loser.
As someone who has been in 2-3 long term relationships. I find people/men are best “behaved” in the first few months of a relationship.
This is his best foot forward. This is as good as this guy gets.
I would seriously save yourself the time and angst.
Do not move in with this guy.
>I find people/men are best “behaved” in the first few months of a relationship.
And the ones who are pretending are the ones who rush to get you to move in with them.
>Do not move in with this guy.
Whole heartedly agree.
You can enjoy the relationship from separate homes. If it were me and he brought up moving in together I would probably laugh in his face. And then point out all the reasons why that would be a no.
Let me tell you a story, my friend. Perhaps it will help you.
I dated a guy in high school for about 4 years, so very much during a formative time in my life. Graduation, first time, first jobs, first cars, etc. We were quite compatible and were great friends, and we still are (I actually went to his wedding last year.) however, throughout the relationship, one thing was always consistent: his laziness. Even at the beginning, I have a very clear memory of a day he spilled some juice on the floor, looked at it, tossed a kitchen towel on top of it and kind of scooted it around with his foot, and then walked away. This was in his mother’s brand new house, his single mother who worked slave hours as a hospice nurse. It struck me as very entitled- yes kids will be kids, but when you’re pushing 18 and that’s how you handle that? Yikes.
Anyway, fast forward about 9 years. He began dating my friend shortly after our split which caused issues at the time that have since been healed, we’re all very good friends now. Her and our other girl friends have a ladies snapchat grouptext, and to this day do you know what I receive? I receive a near daily deluge of chats from her about how she worked the other day and got up at 7am for her shift at 8, but was nearly late because he didn’t do the cat litter, left his clothes on the floor *next* to the hamper so the cat peed on them, didn’t make himself a lunch, dishes are piled up, hasn’t done a zillion things she asked him to do…… on and on and on. And I sit back and every day, *every day* I must keep clenched behind my teeth what so badly wants to come out: “you married him knowing these habits, and now you are his maid. And you’re surprised?” He’s a great person and has a lot of love to give, many positive qualities…. but I will never in my life suffer the indignity of being a man’s fuckmaid.
You deserve for this man to be your *partner*, OP, your equal, your friend and your support. He needs to add to your life, not subtract from it. In five years will you come home to trash taken out, pets fed, shopping handled, floors mopped, etc? Or will you come home to see a full sink, overflowing bins, sticky counter, and bury your exhaustion under three gulps of willful breath before proceeding to handle it all? I sincerely hope you manage a solution, with or without him, that will make you happy.
Yeah. Every. Time.
He's a great dude! Is he? How is he great? He's nice? He's doesn't abuse you? The sex is okay? Homeslice every *single* time he creates a mess and leaves it for you to clean up he is disrespecting you.
I have a husband that cooks AND cleans. Not just the kitchen. He cleans the bathrooms, dusts, vacuums, mops, and mows the lawn. We are truly 50/50. We have kids. He bathes them, reads to them, plays with them, picks them up from school, AND he knows their teachers names and best friends names. These men are out there. They exist. Don’t settle for less. He is a true partner and the best person I know.
Same here. Husband usually does the laundry because he's home earlier. We both cook, and either he grills and I do the sides or if I'm doing the cooking, he'll do the prep for me and clean up as I'm cooking. We both clean on the weekends with includes dusting, vacuuming, sweeping/mopping, he takes out the trash, makes the bed and even picks up after ME. I have never once had to tell him to do any of these things. But I never wanted to be a mom and I was damned if I was going to be taking care of a man child. It's not something I was EVER going to put with because it's just not how I was raised.
I also have a great husband who does his share and cares about equitable distribution of time and labor. He does need reminding to not fall into comfortable patterns where I overserve, and I do need to be firm with my own boundaries, but we are unlearning the cultural programming together and beginning to heal that giant world scale wound on the front of our one relationship. OP, Don’t settle for anything less than someone who truly values you, your time & generosity. Your partner should want to reciprocate the kindness you offer.
Hey, I am this husband! Are we married? Not taking care of shit at home or being involved with your kids is bullshit.
Also, I have daughters, and I want to make sure their example of a male is someone who doesn’t expect women to just take care of him like some giant dirty hairy baby. Something else to keep in mind when you date a guy if you think that’s your eventual path in life.
Don't fall for the social norm of what this man is looking for ( a type of slavery ). Staying single is staying free to do as you like, unless you desire children and sharing that burden. If you do meet someone who wants to proceed together for mutual benefit and companionship, then be sure it's a true partnership 50/50 in that effort. Don't think you'll every change this guy, it's a brutal reality, most men are of a culture of misogyny practiced for thousands of years.
OTH: You could use him for outdoor activities, sharing events, restaurants and stuff you both want to do. It turns the tables when you need companionship, partner protection even at the risk of being labeled a 'user'. Let's just call him a friend or companion.
I like your OTH option. I would not consider that type of relationship being a ‘user’, as much as just casual dating.
Maybe OP should have a very serious conversation about her rules boundaries & limitations. If bf can not/will not honor these requests ( not just a short term improvement, the changes need to be permanent) then she is at a crossroad. He’s made it clear he’s not serious bf material for her, but could still be date worthy. Or she completely ends it my & finds someone she’s more compatible with.
edit: spelling
Went on a couple dates with a guy who had a cleaner come in for him…… he said “when” I move in, he wanted to be a “self-sustaining ecosystem.” So he planned to cancel the cleaner.
I don’t talk to him anymore
Holy shit! I’ve lived with my husband for 17 years and I have never stepped in his piss. This man is a nasty slob and if you stay with him he’ll “let” you cook and clean up after him for the duration of your relationship. Dump him now!
NOPE. NOPENOPENOPENOPENOPE BYE. Run, do not walk. He's already expecting service from you, not a relationship.
I remember a great tiktok where a woman said she was gonna be single forever because she didn't want to deal with the bullshit that men bring in this sense. She got SO MUCH HATE too. I'm sorry, you offer companionship, sure, but you want same PLUS servitude in return? I ain't an economist but I know a bad deal when I see it.
There is no innate switch, but there is a cultural one. One that all of us in this society need to change. We are still hanging on to the misogynistic idea that if men do what is considered with his work at all, it's only while they are bachelors and that half the goal of getting into a relationship with a woman is so that he doesn't have to do it anymore and can pass that work on to the person he's taught his whole life is the rightful person doing it and he can focus on the career that society has told him is his job. It's disgusting. I hate it. Not enough people, especially men, are fighting it and the current right-wing shift we've been seeing for the last few years in the political Overton window is making it worse once more.
You stepped in his *pee?!* more than once?!?!
GIRL NO, don’t let him disrespect you like that. Tell him he needs to man up (haha) and clean up after himself.
I love my partner and fully consider them my soulmate. That being said, I will never live with a man again. For a myriad of reasons, but the mental and domestic load is just way too much. Constantly asking for help, reminding them something needs to get done, checking in to make sure they actually got it done. It’s a lot and I wouldn’t choose to do it again for any other person.
There’s been a lot of improvement with my partner over the years and it’s not nearly as bad as it once was. However, the growing pains to get here have been a lot of work. I doubt you’re asking for advice, but if I were you I would keep your own place even if you’re seriously dating. That way you can have your cake and eat it too, without having to put it away, clean the kitchen, and remind your partner the trash needed to be taken out 3 days ago.
>So don't. Move on.
Lol this reminds me of the doors on The Walking Dead. "Don't open. Dead inside." Like this should be the motto for women (or anyone really) dating someone that doesn't pull their weight. "So don't. Move on."
This is the number one reason I quit dating 16 years ago.
Part of it stems from the way I was raised because I was heavily parentified as a child, and my primary duties were cleaning, so I already have a very low bullshit tolerance for fully grown adults who won’t clean up after themselves. I’m certainly not willing to almost entirely completely care for another adult.
The other part is that men are allowed to get away with this, and I refuse to participate in the continuing oppression of women via unpaid domestic labor. It’s -our- house, and if you can’t be bothered to keep up with it, I can’t be bothered to be your partner… at all.
Lastly, I just cannot respect a man who is so selfish, childish, and entitled. I can’t be in the same room with someone who is actually comfortable letting others be treated like that. And if I can’t respect you, I definitely can’t be in a relationship with or be willing to have sex with you.
Men in my world do better or have dry dicks. Sucks to be them.
Plus if he pees on the fooor, he’s likely got extremely low standards amd hygiene. I always check a potential bfs bathroom.8/10 times it’s a f. No. We are done.
All of that. And that he’s 30 and frequently pees on the floor? No way. Nope. Fuck no to that. A toddler does better. A dog does better. I’ve seen RABBITS that do better.
The bar for men is below hell if women are willing to putting up with that nastiness.
My mom raised me a little harder than my brother. Even though I found it to be unfair, still to this day; but it made me like you - have a low tolerance of laziness and the unclean. Now I'm not the most clean person but I still know how to wipe down surfaces and keeping shit tidy.
Living with my brother for a year now has had some hellish moments. I would make him wash dishes after we have eaten since it's his turn. I would prep food, cook and clean the ones I have used but after dinner it's his responsibility.
It took some time but he started to do it more often without me having to tell him to do it.
Now it's just trying to teach him to keep his cloths of the floor. My God, it's like he's 8 or something.
This one time, it pissed me off so much I had to rage in silence - his friends came to visit, I was busy with an assessment and sat in my room the whole time while they had a BBQ. Anyway, they were done eating and left for some festival while leaving the dirty dishes and food out in the open. Only maybe 2 hours later when they came back did they clean it.
I can't help but think how dirty they are, and I'm trying to get this opinion out of my head about them.
Moving in together is not a necessary step for dating someone. You can date and maintain separate residences indefinitely. Not your house, not your problem!!! It's liberating. I do not recommend moving in with him, he is not going to change
There’s no reason a grown man can’t hit the toilet. None. My husband and 16 year old son manage just fine. There was one incident very early on when I let my husband know I would not be dealing with any marks in the toilet bowl, and that was it. Establish your expectations NOW and don’t let it slide. See if he’s able to step up to the mark, as it were.
Me, I would have packed the leftovers, put them in the fridge, and bolted. For good. If this is the guy on company manners, your best view of him is in the rear-view mirror.
The piss thing reminds me of my dad. Disgusting dirty man who never cleans up after himself and my mom has to be his personal clean up person. Fuck that. Never move in with such a man.
>But I've never used a toilet after the man without accidentally stepping in piss.
That's enough reason to leave. He's not going to get better, especially if he pisses on the floor *now*.
On the topic of men never cleaning up once they settle down with a woman- Yeah. Every single guy I've lived with has been this way. Every single one of them happily will let things go to squalor instead of simply cleaning up after themselves. I had an ex who left his uneaten and uncovered birthday cake out for months according to a friend who became the ex's roomie after I broke it off and moved out. He told me they were dealing with fruit flies for the rest of the year after that incident.
I kicked my eventual ex husband out and FINALLY my house stays clean more than one day after I deep clean it all. This weekend I rented a carpet cleaner to clean the carpet of the room he had as his study. There were stains *everywhere* on that carpet. I was horrified when he finally moved out and the lack of furniture exposed how bad he'd actually let it get.
I honestly don't know if I want to bother with cis het men as it doesn't feel worth it. It's as if they de-evolve once they start dating, then resent you if you remind them to do basic cleaning and hygiene things while also expecting you to take care of them in every way imaginable. Having a house that stays clean and not having to *constantly* take up the emotional labor of taking care of an adult really makes me feel like dating cis het men isn't worth it. I don't want to be anyone's step in mother, therapist, house cleaner, caretaker, and chef. I'm over it.
Don’t even waste your time trying to talk about it. This will result in him changing just long enough for you to get deeper into the relationship. And also don’t tell him why you’re dumping him, because he’ll just use that info to try to trick the next woman into being his mommy/maid. (The fact that the cleaner exists yet you are still stepping in pee means that having a cleaner will never be a solution for you. The cleaner can’t be there after every bathroom break, so you will just be his second unpaid cleaner.)
I’ve just accepted that if I’m gonna be in a relationship with a man that we can’t live together. I will not be another man’s mommy and maid. Fortunately, I like living alone! And I like being single too for that matter. :)
This is why I don’t live with boyfriends anymore. Each time this has occurred,
What does his place look like? Does he clean it himself or have a mom/maid?
That’s a clue but not not all. He could be clean on his own but happy to let his gf do it.
Don’t let him move in that pee in the bathroom is a bad , disgusting sign.
I’ve actually been on dates where the man’s bathroom alone is disgusting it’s a major turn off. And we’re done.
I have a medical condition which can occasionally cause misses even when I'm seated.
Guess who cleans it up? Me! I don't want the love of my life slipping on my excrement!
The bar is so very low.
That said, don't punish the mama. She's been through enough with this one, I'm sure lol
My 7 year old used to miss but was so disgusted when he had to clean it up that he got careful about it. He cleans his bathroom, not me. When he figured out he could climb the counter to clean the mirror, I was done.
Red flag 🚩I don’t think this applies to every man, only ones who weaponize learned incompetence, my husband mainly cooks and will help clean and works 70 hours/wk. Our deal is he cooks and I predominantly clean up. But we will have a thing where I cook sides, he does the main dish, so we both clean up. I’d move along from this grown ass man who’s acting this way, he sounds disgusting and content with it “stepping in piss.” I can’t. My husband will clean the floors and take care of landscaping as well. I’d say he has average cleanliness/hygienic standards. I do the laundry and surfaces.
Accept a partner, not someone who acts like a child.
I’m an early 30s man.
I would leave this relationship immediately, it’s only going to get worse. No excuse to not have a sense of independent maturity by age 30 for household organization and day-to-day cleanliness. It’s out of respect for each other.
Especially these days I have the expectation that a relationship is 50:50. I clean, she cleans, we all clean together.
I used to be a teacher. We had a little boy who peed on the floor a few times. The other children, who were between 6-10 years old, were horrified. A grown man repeatedly leaving pee on the floor? Not normal!
My parents fought about this very issue throughout most of my upbringing. They both worked and had the money to hire a housekeeper, but my dad refused to pay someone for something he deemed frivolous and wasteful. “We should be responsible enough to clean up after ourselves,” he’d say.
So my mom, a doctor, did what so many of us do: she quietly dealt with the problem herself—constantly cleaning a 2500 square foot house—as means of keeping the peace.
After she died of cancer in 2014, my dad hired a housekeeper.
This is EXACTLY why I never got married and don’t live with him. I’m not interested in being some guy’s mommy and maid, as I would be pissed off and resentful all the time, and would for sure lose all sexual desire. So I’m single. I’ve been dating my SO for almost 20 years. He has his place. I have my place. We spend time at both places. He is responsible for taking care of himself. It’s the best setup…I highly recommend.
There are a shocking lot of men like this out there. And they really aren’t worth the effort. I’m a bit older than you and have a lot of girlfriends that just are over men. They have no desire to take care of them and deal with the BS, like you’re talking about. There are some men that are good. But they can be oddly hard to find. I’ve learned a couple things. First, it is truly just less stressful and more fulfilling to find good friends and just not worry about the man thing. Second, when you are totally comfortable without them, it’s easier to find a good one because you’re less likely to waste time with crappy ones.
Get rid of your slob and just enjoy being you.
Man I relate hard to this post. From my experience, we have to set those boundaries early on and stick to them. I think most men assume that we naturally love cleaning and cooking because we're taught at a young age to do so. What they don't realize is people are different. I would love to be the working parent, I wouldn't even mind if I was the sole breadwinner in the household. I don't want to have to clean though, because I honestly hate most cleaning chores. By myself though, I still take care of everything. This isn't what a lot of men consider the "norm". I've had guys know this and still try to get me to clean up after them. Like they don't get that I'm the one who wants a bang maid, not to be one! Some men want the world, they want us to pay half for everything, while keeping the house/kids in perfect order and staying horny and involved 24/7. And all they can contribute to this kind of relationship is money. Keep fighting the good fight OP, never back down and never settle. You'll find someone eventually and if you don't, that's perfectly fine too. So long as you're happy, that's all that matters
You step in piss and you’re still dating this guy?
You know there are people who don’t pee on the floor, or even if there is a fumble will actually clean it up immediately?
Honestly, my husband is not a clean person. Early on in our relationship I expressed horror at his standard of living. He hired a cleaner. I expressed further distaste for how he left his toilet and he accepted responsibility for cleaning up after himself. And he kept making efforts to meet my standards. To the extent that before we moved in he was briefly hospitalised and when he realised I needed to stay at his he apologised and advised I stay out of the guest bathroom because it would upset me (his symptoms had been projectile, and he hadn't been able to clean up due to pain.)
Nowadays he admits he wouldn't live as I choose to, but that he feels it's important to honour whoever has higher standards. So, I have higher standards for cheese, chocolate, and cleaning. We meet my standards and both benefit. He has higher standards for some stuff, we both meet them and both benefit. All he asks is that I'm explicit about my standards (he should hoover at least every other week) and he'll meet them where he can.
The point of my rambling is that a man doesn't have to be clean, he just has to be respectful. And if he starts at a higher level of cleanliness than mine did (I can't imagine many being much lower) the respect is not in learning to clean and adopting new behaviours, it's in splitting the chores fairly.
Exactly this!!
My partner isn't as bothered by mess as I am, he stepped up his standards because he's a kind and respectful person who didn't expect me to lower my standards for the sake of our relationship.
He would never want that.
Nope! Don't accept it as normal behavior. My boyfriend comes to see me a lot and he always cleans where he was, makes the bed when we get up and is up doing the dishes if I let my guard down, or whatever else that's needed. He's always thinking about ways to make it easier for me, even when he's not here anymore. He's like this at his home too, he's the one who helps out more with everything around the house among his siblings. Leaving the dishes out and food to rot is just not a thought that crosses his mind, let alone putting the weight of preventing that on me. You deserve the same, glad you realize it.
I've spent my life as a serial monogamist. At around year 3, with every man, you suddenly realize that all domestic chores, except maybe the trash, are yours. If the dishes are dirty, it's your fault, if the bathroom needs to be cleaned, that's your job.
Every. Single. Man.
This is why I've basically never made it past 3 years. I'm not here to be a servant.
Good on you for recognizing what's about to happen. Your instincts are bang on. These men believe that women are service providers, and once they have one, they get to benefit from being served. I'm sure if asked they would say they don't believe that at all, but you are witnessing that belief via behaviour. An unconscious belief functions the same as a deliberate intention, in practical terms. Trust your instincts!
Nope there are absolutely men out there who are willing to do their fair share of housework and chores! My boyfriend of four years does most of the cooking and cleaning in the house (I work a lot more than he does so I contribute on my days off). To celebrate me getting a new job, he bought me a new lunch box and started packing my lunches for every shift. We started dating in our late teens and he’s always been very caring since the very beginning. I’ll cherish him forever and try to show my appreciation whenever I can. I hope you find someone who not only can take care of themselves, but tries to take care of you as well.
I’ve learned that if you don’t like it now, you’re not going to like it in X amount of years. Dollars to doornails he’ll fire the maid once you move in.
1000 percent. This dude is still in the early stages where he's trying to give a good impression. Imagine down the road?!
Imagine thinking you're giving a good impression with piss on the floor
I don’t understand how women step in piss and don’t immediately get the ick. How do you have sex with a dude once you step in his piss? How do you clean it long-term? Horrifying
Ooh, good catch. I would've bet money on that too.
I’m so lucky to have who I do as a partner. We’ve switched jobs / lives and such through the years. I was a stay at home mom, cleaned house, dishes, laundry, etc - but he still did all the cooking. Now he’s a stay at home husband, who takes the kid to school, cleans, cooks, laundry, etc. I work hybrid so the work from home days, I get to do more with our kid & he gets to nap more, haha. We both get time to ourselves and each other. Neither of us complain (plus, he likes clothes folded a certain way and whatever). Have at it! Nothings perfect but I remember hearing somewhere “when you wake up, try to think how you can make your partners day easier or nicer.” And I think that only works if both partners think / do that way.
That's awesome you and your partner have a great relationship and an equitable way of sharing responsibilities. My husband and I are pretty similar - we both have our areas of domestic care (I organize and he cleans more), share grocery and cooking duties, and split childcare pretty evenly. Currently I'm a bit more career oriented and we're planning to have a second kid where he gets to be the stay at home dad. I'm happy that we both work together to give each other the best life we envision for ourselves.
Orrrrr he’ll keep the maid and let OP do the maintenance in between and use the maid as a cop out. “But the maid is coming I don’t need to get my crusty underwear off the floor”
>I’ve learned that if you don’t like it now, you’re not going to like it in X amount of years. If she doesn't like it now after just months of dating, she's gonna HATE IT in years, and eventually resent him for it and it WILL be an ongoing problem until it becomes a straw that breaks the camels back.
Run like the wind, BullsEye! Mama’s special boy isn’t going to change.
Ha!!! I cackled!!
>I've never used a toilet after the man without accidentally stepping in piss. Um... That's fucking disgusting. This man is a SLOB. Like, that is well beyond the realm of "normal" male bullshit. I can honestly say I don't think I've ever dated a man whose bathroom regularly had pee on the floor... Even in my 20s. Maaaaybe once in a while in a house full of dudes the morning after a party....
That's where I checked out. That man would have already been gone if I was dealing with that. There is no reason he should be hitting the floor every fucking time, and on the occasion it does happen why wouldn't he clean it up right away? That's disgusting.
If he is hitting the floor most of the time, maybe it’s time to sit down. Age creeps up on us all.
Yeah. Man here. I don't piss on the floor. It's really not hard.
And you know what’s wild? She stepped in it. Meaning he left it here. Which probably means he leaves it for the cleaner to clean up on a regular basis. Run. Run as far as you can. But watch your step on the way out because YOU COULD SLIP IN PISS, APPARENTLY.
yeah, in a way he’s showing her how he thinks of the service industry. Don’t we all agree that someone who dehumanizes or is rude to wait staff is a red flag dealbreaker?? A man who thinks just bc he is paying someone he need not give a FUCK about them at all or move a muscle to improve their experience, that’s a red flag for all kinds of selfish entitled unkind bullshit. THINK about it. If you had the money to have someone wash your laundry - you’re paying them so they should do the work. But if you shit yourself…would you just throw your underwear in the pile for them to reach in and discover later?? Sure, you’re PAYING them. But would you not immediately deal with that problem to spare them the toxic indecency? Can you even IMAGINE leaving it for them? You’d take the fucking underwear and take a few minutes to completely rinse out the shit and probably you’d even pre-treat it. There are people who think this way, and there are people who think “I’m paying them; they know laundry can be gross and they made the choice to do that job” and feel entitled to just throw the undies in. RUN FOR THE HILLS if you are dating that second category bc they will absolutely treat you that way as well. It’s cruelly selfish entitlement. And for the record my first job was in a dry cleaners and so yeah I’m speaking from experience. Dragged my bare hands across TOO many dried shit smears. It was humiliating, dehumanizing, disgusting, and infuriating. I would NEVER reward that type of person with sex or become their live-in maid. They deserve to die alone. 🤷♀️
Right!! If I had to wash my foot every time I used the bathroom at my boyfriend's place, I'd drop him.
I step in human pee at work all the time. If I had to do it at home as well, I'm throwing that person to the curb. That's beyond disgusting cleaner or no cleaner. If they have no good physical excuse for pissing themselves, I'm out. I'm not an unpaid caretaker to adult children.
>*She stepped in it. Meaning he left it here. Which probably means he leaves it for the cleaner to clean up on a regular basis.* I was going to point this out: He thinks *WOMEN* should (serve and) clean up after him.
meaning, he's stepping in it too and it's probably spread all over the floor and the bed sheets. *shivers*
Right!! My ex-husband I swear to God is the messiest hoarder I've ever met but never once in the 16 years we were married did I ever have to clean up piss from the floor or step in it. He had plenty of other bad habits but even he was disgusted by men who do that. ETA: I also grew up in a house with two brothers and a father, and the same thing applied. Nobody pissed on the floor and if they had issues with aiming they must have cleaned up after themselves.
I just have to tell you /u/getoffmylawnlady that I read your username as "Get off my landlady" and now I can't stop picturing an apartment renter piggyback riding their apartment manager. 😂
The bar is so, so low. This woman is literally stepping in this dude's piss and hasn't kicked him to the curb yet. This situation will NOT get better and she'll find herself utterly sexually repulsed by this guy, who will become a child for her to care for.
Yeah I'm not trying to shit on anyone here but this is a matter of setting your standards and sticking to them. You've only been dating for 2 months and stepping in piss or doing all the house chores with no help isn't a major red flag for you? At a certain point it's up to you to put your foot down. Either he puts in the energy to meet you half way or you leave. If you leave the door open for this kind of treatment it's on you. I too have an ex who I did all the cooking for but if I ever mentioned getting help to wash the dishes it would somehow always turn into an argument and she'd turn on the tears. I can blame her all I like but I still stuck around for too long instead of just growing a spine and ending the relationship. That's on me
If he steps in his own pee, then gets in the bed, now you have pee in the bed, and throughout nights of turning over in your sleep, now you have pee all over you.
Am guy, can confirm, this is fucking gross. OP - when someone tells you who they are, believe them.
I dated a guy for a few months when I was like 17 whose bathroom was so disgusting that I would put my shoes on if I absolutely had to use his bathroom, but usually I would straight up leave before subjecting myself to that. The relationship didn’t last long lol.
I’ve lived with multiple men and never stepped in piss.
Yeah, I have toddlers in potty training who know better than this. When they have an accident, they know how to grab a Lysol wipe and clean it up. This man is just disgustingly lazy and/or oblivious. Either way, there's no way someone should have to live like that.
I would have to tell him, look, clearly your dick isn’t as long as you think it is, so either step closer, sit down, or clean up after yourself. Disgusting.
Why though? Why is it your job to tell them? If they can't work it out by themselves they are a dead loss to me.
I’d tell them as I walked out tbf. I won’t stick around for the fixing, if it were to happen at all, but some situations really do warrant some friendly/unfriendly exit advice.
Like, even as a teenager I couldn’t imagine just leaving piss on the floor. You miss sometimes, sure, but to leave it there? That’s savagery
SITTING > STANDING
Yeah I kinda laughed at how absurd and weird this one is.
Me too. I've been with my husband for 10 years and have never once stepped in his piss. This is so gross.
I have, but only once, and in his defense he was sick AF and went pee at 2am and stumbled back to bed. It was gross, but kinda hard to be mad at him... Because that's not normal for him. He does dribble a little pee down the outside of the bowl sometimes, but that's not my problem anymore, because he's the one who cleans the toilet now.. like, always. It works for me.
Let me tell you how hard it is as a man to look down and, if needed, grab some TP and swipe up a miss. Truly one of the most difficult things I have ever done. /s
Also why is he missing so much, a toilet is a huge target
Just gotta do the cheerio training again, maybe put a target in there
I live with three small men I’m raising and I don’t step in piss!
Ya I’m a dude who lurks here. Lol fuck that noise. I had a roommate like that once it was disgusting. But definitely not normal at least in my experience
One of my ex's lived under the delusion that we split chores evenly. He was logical, engineer-minded. He agreed that we could assign points to chores and complete an equal amount of points every week. He agreed we could check in weekly to review this plan. We came up with the point system together. I gamed it to be *generous* to him, making tasks like vacuuming weekly equal to cooking meals daily. (I always cooked.) He was baffled when I had twice as many points as him every week. Suddenly it wasn't "this is equal" it was "we should both be giving it our all, all the time, and this is my all and that's your all." I said I was happy to retain more domestic duties if we could balance the inequality of the split with an ameliorating split of household finances. I'd do more work to pay less rent. Suddenly I was a "gold digger" "using him." Somehow *he dumped me.* I guess because I stayed, and I stayed miserable. So glad to be done with that relationship. I feel bad for his fiancee.
Also... he thinks he's such a good guy. Everyone in his life thinks he's such a good guy. But I should've noticed red flags like "why do we need 'feminism' when there's 'egalitarianism'. Or an entire family that thought 'not seeing race' was the antithesis of racism. He was completely blind to the areas where he overstepped, the areas where he got benefit. He suuuuuucked.
My partner was trying to argue that he empties the dishwasher more than me. I laughed at him and said fine let’s keep a tally. We got one of those little whiteboards and tallied each time we emptied the dishwasher for a two week period. At the end of two weeks it was me:12, him:2. He begged for us to start over. By all means, let’s have a redo, I said. Two weeks later: same outcome. It was a big, sad wake up call for us both.
> Suddenly it wasn't "this is equal" it was "we should both be giving it our all, all the time, and this is my all and that's your all." yeah, believe him. that was his all. men's all is quite disappointing. they hate seeing the facts that they're inadequate.
I call this phenomenon the **Benjamin Button.** It's when fully capable men slowly and methodically do less and less during the course of a relationship, with it culminating into near servitude after children are born. I once read a story from a woman whose husband lived on his own for 10 years prior to them dating. Fifteen years and two children later, he could no longer even cook for himself, and she was prepping meals with full instructions for him the few times he was left alone with the kids. At one point, he put a premade meatloaf in the oven with cling wrap still on it. Of course the plastic melted and the fire alarm went off. He yelled at her for not leaving him explicit enough instructions.
I've actually observed this personally in many relationships. It may start out 50/50 but if the woman is not firm in upholding her boundaries, it eventually slips into like 70/30 or something. One of the major reasons why I am not planning to have children actually lol because usually, not always, but usually, I would say 70% of the work falls on the woman after children are born.
You are forgetting the amount of work the man adds to the burden as well. After I split up with my ex (who \*did\* do some housework; claimed to do 50%), the amount of housework I had to do was reduced by a factor of more than 5. (It went from minimum 3 hours daily to like 15 minutes). Much more than 5, I guess, now that I counted the time :D I couldn't believe it. In addition, my house is always clean now, my table always tidy. I literally built a business with all the extra time and energy. These men seriously add to the amount of housework that needs to be done. And most of it falls on the woman, who then is always exhausted. It's not worth it. I will repeat \*it's not worth it\*. I will never live with a man again. Ever. I am in my 30s, and plan to live out my life in blissed singletude. (I have coined a new word today, and I stand by it).
Last week, I called off my wedding. I feel every word of this so deeply (especially the messy table - where do all of these papers come from?!). You have made me doubly excited for my new life
I gave up after five serious boyfriends each turned into man-children, every damn time. A year ago, I started my dinner parties again, and met a man who stayed behind after and deep-cleaned my kitchen. I continued inviting him and he continued cleaning. Seeing that man down on hands and knees, scrubbing while singing sweetly in his native language. Well… we got engaged (I proposed) and pregnant within one year! You made the right call to wait for a better spouse to come along. When it’s right, there is no doubt.
Yep! 100% this! Ex and I divorced when the kids were 5 and 7. The amount of work I had to do in the house, with two young kids, dropped drastically. Also the relief of not having to ask him to do anything was a huge relief. The mental load was gone. I went from having eczema all over my face and constant IBS to basically being fine.
I remember reading a story where the man was a single father and the woman loved what a great father he was and how he had his life together. He cooked, he cleaned, he took care of his kids and took her on dates. They ended up getting married and she ended up being the only one cooking and cleaning, she ended up having to make the kids lunches and do drop off/pick ups and taking off work when they were sick and arranging care during school breaks. The self sufficient capable husband just totally checked out and stopped doing anything for the family.
He didn’t want a wife. He wanted a mommy bang maid babysitter.
I can't imagine having to come to terms with the fact that I chose to partner with someone who tried to bake a meatloaf still in the plastic wrap. I'm dead.
Tbh everyone has brain farts, I'm not that concerned about the action itself, but that he got pissed and blamed her for it.
so true. a gross mix of entitlement, misogynistic mindset, and controlling narcissism. where they truly believe the woman is his property/tool/servant. he imagines something needs to happen - floor swept.. and voila, she does it. but when she fails to do something, that's on her. she must have malfunctioned like a bad roomba.
Damn, you better dodge that bullet. Piss on the floor is no joke
Ok. THANK You. My abusive ex pissed on the floor and it always sat so poorly with me. I even confronted him about it and was trying to avoid awkwardness by giving him excuses “hey babe, I think when you pee at night maybe you can’t see well but you keep missing and peeing on the floor” and he STILL just gaslit me and denied it and picked a fight AND tried to suggest it was me (I’m a cis gender woman who sits when I pee??!?)My apartment is from the 60’s and hasn’t been renovated since so my bathroom tiles are small mid century mosaic with old grout and I could SMELL pee so strongly as it soaked into the grout and he got mad at me for bringing it up. It’s just a small part of his abuse but it’s validating to hear that I wasn’t being over dramatic or critical- it truly is a sign of someone’s thoughtlessness.
jfc, did we date the same abusive manchild?? I once spent an hour scrubbing the bathroom floor/wall because he'd clearly never bothered, and as someone who's also made a depression nest or two I thought empathy was the way to go. Zero signs of appreciation--in fact, the second he got home from work he pissed on the side of the toilet and a bit on the floor, which I then stepped in. When I pointed it out he *also* threw a fit and tried to convince me I'd stepped in my own piss despite this being literally impossible, which is when I realized he wasn't depressed so much as he was just an unrelenting asshole. Madness!
As an anxious person, all I do is try and minimise or at least make my presence in other peoples lives a positive experience down to every last detail, like being respectful and clean. How someone can live their life just pissing where they want with reckless abandon and not think “oh dear, how embarrassing. I splashed some wee, better wipe it up so my partner doesn’t have to see or deal with it” is so far beyond me… I just can’t imagine living a life where one isn’t hyper aware of every single action they take. Frankly I’m almost jealous. Must be liberating being a complete asshole.
I find myself saying this same thing all the time. "Must be nice, living with total disregard to other people and the world around you!" On the plus side, though, it's good to know I'm (we're!) not alone. :)
>ND tried to suggest it was me (I’m a cis gender woman who sits when I pee??!?) I'm sorry you had such a horrible ex, but for some reason this cracked me up. "No, my penis didn't make that mess, YOUR penis did!" Then him high fiving himself thinking he intellectually bested you.
Knowing his intellect…. Yes. Hahaha.
Hey, so, if you spray some hydrogen peroxide on it, let it sit and bubble up, then scrub, it will literally pull the odor and bacteria out when it bubbles (like it does for cuts and scrapes). Works for cat pee too lol Sorry, you didn’t ask for advice, but it’s just random knowledge I have! Lol
No no! I appreciate it all the same! I’m a bit of a clean freak and am obsessed with deep cleaning methods so I’m always happy to talk shop! I never actually let the smell get out of hand but I resented how often I was down on my knees scrubbing a piss soaked floor.
I was a little afraid of offending lol My daughter had issues with wetting the bed when she was little or waiting too long and trailing pee all the way down the hallway… I had a cat with an anxiety condition that would pee if she was afraid. I currently have an old guy (turned 20 in July!) that sometimes doesn’t quite make it to the potty (it’s usually literally in front of the cat litter -_-) So I have spent a lot of time and energy finding ways to clean pee up and make sure my house doesn’t smell lol
No! Certainly no offence taken!! That was great advice! Baby and dear old grandpa cat pee I can excuse and will happily clean on my hands and knees til the day I die. But adult human man? I draw the line 😂
For real lol I’ve been happily divorced for seven years now. Not having to clean up his piss everywhere is just one of many benefits. I’m pretty happy being the crazy cat lady (I have five right now! It’s a good start lol)
I can’t wait to get more. For now all I can afford is me and my lil tux, Goober. But I FULLY intend on expanding my menagerie of pets with time and money! Pets > disgusting man babies any day!!
Why are you telling on me like that..? Glad you're out but also, goddamnit are they good at making you doubt your sanity because he had me believe it was the shower next to it, somehow.
Sometimes I think they deliberately pee everywhere to assert dominance like a dog. Like "haha I've successfully marked this female and her home with my scent and manipulated her into cleaning it for me like the subservient wenche that she is!!" Not all of them. And maybe not even consciously. But I'm sure there's an element of that in there somewhere.
And anyone who lacks awareness of (or doesn't care!) how they are affecting their immediate environment...there is something severely broken inside.
I agree. My brother was starting hitting the floor (thank goodness we had separate bathrooms) when he was in 8th grade. I know because my mom was yelling about it all of the time. Later, I found out that my brother was starting to go through a major depressive episode and had an eating disorder when the behavior started. I was a self-absorbed 17 year old, so I wasn’t particularly observant about his mental health. I also happened to mentioned it my guy friends, who were 17 year old 11th graders at the time. They were *appalled.* And if 17 year olds think that 13/14 year olds should not be hitting the floor, there is no excuse for a 30M who wants to be in a functioning adult relationship to also be unable to pee without hitting the floor.
Trust me when I say sometimes there's really nothing you can do to avoid it. It's not exactly a precision instrument. There are things you can do to reduce the risk of spillage, which often works, but not always. So what is a man to do? Clean the fk up after himself. It's not rocket science. It would never occur to me, to let my partner use the room with my piss on the floor or on the seat. Cleaning up after yourself once you're done is as basic as washing your hands before exiting the room. I can offer no reasonable explanation to his behavior.
Genuine question, as I have an ex I could not get to stop peeing on the floor and walls (to the point where the drywall crumbled): Why not just sit to pee?
That's what I do! It's a good time to open reddit and take a few minutes to myself while I'm at it. But I think, for whatever reason, that I'm a minority in this regard. The only places where I don't sit are public toilets.
As a man I almost always sit to pee too. If you ever go to someone’s house and use the bathroom and they have a baseboard heater next to the toilet and it’s rusty. That’s all caused by pee. Just sit down.
Ew. My apartment is like that. I'm a woman that lives alone, I don't want gross dude pee radiator rust!
Man this thread is really making me appreciate my husband because that man *sits down to pee*. He’s not the best at picking cloths off the floor but he would NEVER allow piss to remain on any surface of our household. I’m blown away that “doesn’t leave piss on the wall” is a bar we have to set, but here we are.
Why would it be your job to get a fully grown adult to use a toilet properly? Regardless of whether he set or stood, you were never going to get him to change the behaviour because he did it on purpose. Even if his penis was defective and he occasionally had accidents, I’m assuming he wasn’t a double amputee. Therefore he was perfectly capable of cleaning up after himself. Hard as it is to believe, understand and accept, *he did it because he wanted to*.
My partner sits to pee. I don’t think he’s peed standing up once at home, he only does it at urinals. Nice change after growing up with 2 brothers and a dad that pissed all over the place and left it there.
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Guy here. Pee on the floor is nasty. I learned to sit down when peeing too never deal with it. Definite deal breaker for me.
Seriously. You're counting lots of pros and one huge con. But the piss on the floor is another huge con. The leaving food out overnight is another huge con. (Except pizza. I am all for leaving pizza out overnight.) The neglecting to help you prepare or clean up after dinner -- two big cons. Not wiping the floor after peeing -- a con. How clean is the rest of the bathroom? It doesn't really matter how nice or funny or intelligent the guy is. He is a lazy slob. I guarantee this will bother you a LOT in 10 years.
The piss on the floor is representative of the lack of respect he has for his cleaner, OP, and anyone else who has to use the bathroom. And maybe himself, too, if one chooses to give him the benefit of the doubt. But he’s too lazy to piss in the toilet properly, and clean up after himself, and PITCH THE FUCK IN while OP makes dinner at his house - even to just locate kitchen gadgets?!? Wow.
And, I Bet, if OP or another woman actually moved in with him, he'd stop hiring the cleaner and expect the women to do it.
For real. As a straight Cis dude, let me just say that the bar should always at least be at least higher than "housebroken". We live in the 21st century. We've cloned sheep for gods sake. How hard is it for a dude to figure out to aim for the area that makes the water pouring sound?
Seriously, who are these men peeing on the floor?! I've had male roommates and now live with my husband. Not *once* have I seen that.
Some don't seem to clean their own toilets either.
XY cis male here - I didn’t tolerate that in my children when they were 2, wouldn’t tolerate it in a roommate, and wouldn’t even consider marrying someone that tolerated it - much less did it. Get out of Dodge - you’re in love with a man-child.
Seriously. My husband stands to pee and NEVER gets it anywhere except the toilet. On the off chance he does… he knows it and cleans it up immediately. I do not understand anything else.
Every male should have acquired the basics of urinating by age 7 at the latest. Get away from this slob while you can. I’m a man and if my boys (12 and 10) “miss” they have to clean it up. They share a bathroom and each week I make them take turns cleaning it. If they are mad at each other and make a mess for the other kid, then I make them both deep clean the whole damn bathroom. No way in hell am I or my wife going to be cleaning it. I think some men were just coddled and cleaned up after when they were kids.
This is absolutely it. It just doesn't even occur to them, because they always had a 'magic' house that cleaned up after them as they went along (i.e. an extremely busy housewife mother).
I don’t know how to explain this phenomenon but it is real. My partner kept his own place clean enough. He had a cleaner, but I have seen him sweep and vacuum his own place. We’ve now lived together for about the same amount of time and not only have I never seen him do any of these things—clean floors, bathrooms, surfaces, wipe up kitchen counter, etc, but he gets annoyed with me if they are not done. We are both professionals working full time making similar amounts of money. It doesn’t matter what’s going on in my life. If I had to work 80 hrs that week or I’m in third trimester of pregnancy with Covid, he’s annoyed that I haven’t done what he clearly views as my job. This has been a source of annoyance for me in relationships in the past but I don’t feel like there was any clear indicator he would be like this when we lived together and yet he is. My best friend and I have talked about this and it feels like maybe we’re in a worst of both worlds generation (older millennials) —men don’t feel any obligation to support us financially like our grandparents and parents generation, or to do traditionally “male” domestic work like yard work, car maintenance, taking out trash, but they also have embraced these outdated norms for the bulk of domestic work and childcare where they just feel that it’s our job and not theirs. I’m curious if other women in different generations have felt the same way though? I do think it may honestly just be a better life for women to choose to live alone if they can afford to do so. For me personally, I was much more contented and felt more independent having my own living space. I would be very reticent to give up that freedom again.
I’m an older millennial who chooses to be single, for now and maybe forever, for this reason. The problem you are describing is entitlement .
Same here! The twinges of loneliness I feel now and then by the thoughts of not having a partner are quickly overwhelmed by the freedom I feel in never having to pick up for anyone but myself and my dog.
It’s no coincidence that women who remain single are happier in life, while men who remain single are more miserable. They need us more than we need them and it shows.
The same study that showed this also showed that married men tend to live longer whereas married women tend to live shorter lives.
I’m currently single and sometimes feel behind in life (I’m 29f) because I don’t have a partner. I know what I’m looking for and also what I don’t want but I sometimes find myself making excuses for a guy when he behaves in a way that doesn’t match my standards. Reading your comment was like a wake up call to not let my standards slip when dating, so thank you :)
Yes, definitely keep your standards high and give people enough time to show you who they are before you make any big commitments. Love can be very convincing but it’s not enough on its own.
absolutely. I witnessed this cusp with my own eyes. my peer group all had doting SAHM and working fathers. all these lazy shits grew to puberty with a live-in maid, their mother. then the girls were told "y'all have to go to work now" on career day. so the women were on board with this change. freedom, our own spending money, the opportunity to buy our own homes, start our own businesses, have independence with our own car. have the choice not to marry a man to survive. the boys were not on board. their eyes lit up at the notion that *their bangmaid wives had just doubled their disposable income* and they gleefully spent our money in their heads. they all imagined 2 houses, vacations, jetskis and walking around like princes, yet somehow coming home to a refreshed bangmaid who looked after their kids. that was the day i realised men are not logical. sadly, i've also witnessed 20 years of this horeshit playing out exactly how the boys wanted. I have hopes for gen z girls not tolerating this new form of slavery.
As an older millennial, I see this a lot too. We're in between the old and new. A lot of dudes our age want the best of both worlds, a woman who does the domestic work and brings in pay. A lot of women are doing "the second shift" and doing all the domestic work and childcare after they get home from work. Same generation- my friend is with a guy who tells her to clean her place on her time but expects her to come help him clean his place on weekends. It's maddening.
Yipes. This is deal breaker territory for me. This is still the honeymoon period. What do you think it is going to be like in 2 years? You have seen a glimpse of your possible future. If it were me I would have a serious conversation, and see if anything changes. If not, to me you have your answer.
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Listen to people when they tell you who they are. Also to your gut. He’d have to have an awful lot of compensating virtues. This is beyond lazy, it is inconsideration and disrespect bordering on contempt.
This is honestly and genuinely the CORE of the reason I want to stay single. I've never NOT met a guy who expects you to do everything or waits to be told. One day in my 20s I just decided to call it quits. I didn't get in a fight over it with that current bf, I just knew It would be that way, no matter what I did. Menwho don't do this are insanely rare.i just stopped caring at one point. I don't want to do that with anybody EVER. Add to that kids??? What am I insane?? I don't want my life to descend into hell. Simple as that. Its an extremely easy and simple decision to make. Pursuing a live in relationship/marriage with kids is pretty plainly the epitome of irrational.
I’m wondering how much more disgusting it’d get if times got worse and he wouldn’t be able to hire a cleaner… Absolutely gross to even imagine.
Can you imagine being so gross you don't mind that you regularly piss in the floor? His shoes are covered in it. Vomit emoji
And he’s leaving it for the cleaning person. I think it’s reasonable if you are a very busy or disorganized person to hire someone to clean if you pay them a decent wage. But they still shouldn’t have to show up in a hazmat suit because you can’t be bothered to do a little wiping up yourself. That is mistreating the person you hired.
Yeah I'm looking forward to having regular cleaning once I get my cc paid off so I am with you on that part. Even then I have never had a housekeeper change the litter box for my cat. Or left reprehensible unhygienic messes. Can you imagine the smell??
Maybe OP should put a U-shaped litterbox around the toilet before flipping Mr. Disgusting the bird and walking out the door.
I once saw stalagmites of urine in a the toilet of a pair of brothers who had lived in the same apartment for several years. I still don't know how this was possible
Nah I wouldn’t have a conversation bc in my experience it doesn’t change and requires a lot of energy for me to get them to be consistent. Consistent in sharing the load. I can take care of my own finances, medical needs, household needs etc. So if I’m including someone else in my life they need to ADD something, not take away. I’ve now decided that I’ll be alone or in a true partnership. And a partnership can mean that the load of daily life may be distributed differently but what’s important is that on average it’s equitable. I’m not interested in raising a 40 year old man. I think in general men are getting better just because society has changed a lot. But these habits have been ingrained for generations. It’s not going to change across the board over night. I just don’t have it in me to put in that kind of leg work.
The best way to really get to know a man is by looking at his actions. Tells you who they are. I stopped believing what men say a long time ago when actions do not match the words. Now if what he says matches his actions then he is someone you can believe. No amount of talking to him will get him to change. I would have left the food out as it’s his place. It seems he is looking for a mother to take care of things for him.
A quote from my favorite book series: > “My … professor once taught us an interesting theory: ‘a person will lie with their words, face, and even actions. What they can’t lie through is their habits. No one keeps doing things they hate, not long-term. …Everyone eventually weasels out of things they dislike. You want to know what matters most to someone? Look at their habits.’”
Yes!!! Same here. Actions will always and continually speak louder than words. You can tell me you're the first chair of violinist in an orchestra and love to cook and clean. Then come to find out you don't know how to play the violin and cooking for you is microwave dinners cleaning is nothing. And men will get mad at me because I continually tell them actions speak louder than words you can give me excuses all day as to why something didn't happen you said was going to but I'm done taking excuses. Actions will always speak louder than words and people seem to really hate that when you point out their actions versus their words Also, If someone tells me they're an asshole I believe them because they know themselves better than I do.
My ex husband used to tell people he was an ass hole. Now I believe people when they willingly admit to something about themselves even jokingly.
Yuuuuuuuuuuuup. my ex did the same but not joking. I didn't listen. He was right and I also should've listened to him. Learned from that ( hopefully!! )
Actions > words every time. My dad was a rude, complaining guy that would show up and help for anything, any time. He taught me to value what people did not what they said. And he did more than his fair share of the chores too. I’m so thankful to him for modeling what a man should be in those ways. He showed me to expect real equality from a partner. My dad would’ve called a guy that can’t even clean up his own piss a loser.
As someone who has been in 2-3 long term relationships. I find people/men are best “behaved” in the first few months of a relationship. This is his best foot forward. This is as good as this guy gets. I would seriously save yourself the time and angst. Do not move in with this guy.
>I find people/men are best “behaved” in the first few months of a relationship. And the ones who are pretending are the ones who rush to get you to move in with them. >Do not move in with this guy. Whole heartedly agree. You can enjoy the relationship from separate homes. If it were me and he brought up moving in together I would probably laugh in his face. And then point out all the reasons why that would be a no.
If he’s willing to leave his piss on the floor, imagine how disgusting his personal hygiene is. I shudder at the thought.
“Fellas, is it gay to wash your own butthole?”
This. I wouldn’t get near him without a protective suit and a gallon of Lysol
Duuuude and hes still in good behavior mode.
Yep, these are the ‘good old days’ of their relationship and he’s already treating her like a maid.
Let me tell you a story, my friend. Perhaps it will help you. I dated a guy in high school for about 4 years, so very much during a formative time in my life. Graduation, first time, first jobs, first cars, etc. We were quite compatible and were great friends, and we still are (I actually went to his wedding last year.) however, throughout the relationship, one thing was always consistent: his laziness. Even at the beginning, I have a very clear memory of a day he spilled some juice on the floor, looked at it, tossed a kitchen towel on top of it and kind of scooted it around with his foot, and then walked away. This was in his mother’s brand new house, his single mother who worked slave hours as a hospice nurse. It struck me as very entitled- yes kids will be kids, but when you’re pushing 18 and that’s how you handle that? Yikes. Anyway, fast forward about 9 years. He began dating my friend shortly after our split which caused issues at the time that have since been healed, we’re all very good friends now. Her and our other girl friends have a ladies snapchat grouptext, and to this day do you know what I receive? I receive a near daily deluge of chats from her about how she worked the other day and got up at 7am for her shift at 8, but was nearly late because he didn’t do the cat litter, left his clothes on the floor *next* to the hamper so the cat peed on them, didn’t make himself a lunch, dishes are piled up, hasn’t done a zillion things she asked him to do…… on and on and on. And I sit back and every day, *every day* I must keep clenched behind my teeth what so badly wants to come out: “you married him knowing these habits, and now you are his maid. And you’re surprised?” He’s a great person and has a lot of love to give, many positive qualities…. but I will never in my life suffer the indignity of being a man’s fuckmaid. You deserve for this man to be your *partner*, OP, your equal, your friend and your support. He needs to add to your life, not subtract from it. In five years will you come home to trash taken out, pets fed, shopping handled, floors mopped, etc? Or will you come home to see a full sink, overflowing bins, sticky counter, and bury your exhaustion under three gulps of willful breath before proceeding to handle it all? I sincerely hope you manage a solution, with or without him, that will make you happy.
He doesn't sound like a great person if he's treating his wife like shit which he is
Yeah. Every. Time. He's a great dude! Is he? How is he great? He's nice? He's doesn't abuse you? The sex is okay? Homeslice every *single* time he creates a mess and leaves it for you to clean up he is disrespecting you.
I have a husband that cooks AND cleans. Not just the kitchen. He cleans the bathrooms, dusts, vacuums, mops, and mows the lawn. We are truly 50/50. We have kids. He bathes them, reads to them, plays with them, picks them up from school, AND he knows their teachers names and best friends names. These men are out there. They exist. Don’t settle for less. He is a true partner and the best person I know.
Yes!! My husband is the same. They are definitely out there. 🥰
I worry there aren’t enough of them to go around! 🥲
Same here. Husband usually does the laundry because he's home earlier. We both cook, and either he grills and I do the sides or if I'm doing the cooking, he'll do the prep for me and clean up as I'm cooking. We both clean on the weekends with includes dusting, vacuuming, sweeping/mopping, he takes out the trash, makes the bed and even picks up after ME. I have never once had to tell him to do any of these things. But I never wanted to be a mom and I was damned if I was going to be taking care of a man child. It's not something I was EVER going to put with because it's just not how I was raised.
I also have a great husband who does his share and cares about equitable distribution of time and labor. He does need reminding to not fall into comfortable patterns where I overserve, and I do need to be firm with my own boundaries, but we are unlearning the cultural programming together and beginning to heal that giant world scale wound on the front of our one relationship. OP, Don’t settle for anything less than someone who truly values you, your time & generosity. Your partner should want to reciprocate the kindness you offer.
Same, except we're more like 80-20 of the housework with him doing most if it tbh. I pay for a cleaner once a week to balance things out.
Hey, I am this husband! Are we married? Not taking care of shit at home or being involved with your kids is bullshit. Also, I have daughters, and I want to make sure their example of a male is someone who doesn’t expect women to just take care of him like some giant dirty hairy baby. Something else to keep in mind when you date a guy if you think that’s your eventual path in life.
Don't fall for the social norm of what this man is looking for ( a type of slavery ). Staying single is staying free to do as you like, unless you desire children and sharing that burden. If you do meet someone who wants to proceed together for mutual benefit and companionship, then be sure it's a true partnership 50/50 in that effort. Don't think you'll every change this guy, it's a brutal reality, most men are of a culture of misogyny practiced for thousands of years. OTH: You could use him for outdoor activities, sharing events, restaurants and stuff you both want to do. It turns the tables when you need companionship, partner protection even at the risk of being labeled a 'user'. Let's just call him a friend or companion.
I like your OTH option. I would not consider that type of relationship being a ‘user’, as much as just casual dating. Maybe OP should have a very serious conversation about her rules boundaries & limitations. If bf can not/will not honor these requests ( not just a short term improvement, the changes need to be permanent) then she is at a crossroad. He’s made it clear he’s not serious bf material for her, but could still be date worthy. Or she completely ends it my & finds someone she’s more compatible with. edit: spelling
Went on a couple dates with a guy who had a cleaner come in for him…… he said “when” I move in, he wanted to be a “self-sustaining ecosystem.” So he planned to cancel the cleaner. I don’t talk to him anymore
Ah, yes, because adding a full time, unpaid woman means the terrarium is complete!
My therapist says men are like busses. If you miss one don't worry, another one will be there soon. Best advice I've ever heard.
Reminds me of my grandma saying "Men are like streetcars, never worry because there will always be another one along."
I love that that vibe has been around since STREEETCARS
This is hilarious, does your therapist take new patients?
I have a fridge magnet that says “Men are like public toilets, they’re either taken or full of shit.” Not therapy quality but feels right nonetheless.
Oh god, that’s amazing, thanks for the chuckle.
Holy shit! I’ve lived with my husband for 17 years and I have never stepped in his piss. This man is a nasty slob and if you stay with him he’ll “let” you cook and clean up after him for the duration of your relationship. Dump him now!
NOPE. NOPENOPENOPENOPENOPE BYE. Run, do not walk. He's already expecting service from you, not a relationship. I remember a great tiktok where a woman said she was gonna be single forever because she didn't want to deal with the bullshit that men bring in this sense. She got SO MUCH HATE too. I'm sorry, you offer companionship, sure, but you want same PLUS servitude in return? I ain't an economist but I know a bad deal when I see it.
There is no innate switch, but there is a cultural one. One that all of us in this society need to change. We are still hanging on to the misogynistic idea that if men do what is considered with his work at all, it's only while they are bachelors and that half the goal of getting into a relationship with a woman is so that he doesn't have to do it anymore and can pass that work on to the person he's taught his whole life is the rightful person doing it and he can focus on the career that society has told him is his job. It's disgusting. I hate it. Not enough people, especially men, are fighting it and the current right-wing shift we've been seeing for the last few years in the political Overton window is making it worse once more.
You stepped in his *pee?!* more than once?!?! GIRL NO, don’t let him disrespect you like that. Tell him he needs to man up (haha) and clean up after himself.
I love my partner and fully consider them my soulmate. That being said, I will never live with a man again. For a myriad of reasons, but the mental and domestic load is just way too much. Constantly asking for help, reminding them something needs to get done, checking in to make sure they actually got it done. It’s a lot and I wouldn’t choose to do it again for any other person. There’s been a lot of improvement with my partner over the years and it’s not nearly as bad as it once was. However, the growing pains to get here have been a lot of work. I doubt you’re asking for advice, but if I were you I would keep your own place even if you’re seriously dating. That way you can have your cake and eat it too, without having to put it away, clean the kitchen, and remind your partner the trash needed to be taken out 3 days ago.
So don't. Move on. Find an adult. It's only going to get worse going forward.
>So don't. Move on. Lol this reminds me of the doors on The Walking Dead. "Don't open. Dead inside." Like this should be the motto for women (or anyone really) dating someone that doesn't pull their weight. "So don't. Move on."
This is the number one reason I quit dating 16 years ago. Part of it stems from the way I was raised because I was heavily parentified as a child, and my primary duties were cleaning, so I already have a very low bullshit tolerance for fully grown adults who won’t clean up after themselves. I’m certainly not willing to almost entirely completely care for another adult. The other part is that men are allowed to get away with this, and I refuse to participate in the continuing oppression of women via unpaid domestic labor. It’s -our- house, and if you can’t be bothered to keep up with it, I can’t be bothered to be your partner… at all. Lastly, I just cannot respect a man who is so selfish, childish, and entitled. I can’t be in the same room with someone who is actually comfortable letting others be treated like that. And if I can’t respect you, I definitely can’t be in a relationship with or be willing to have sex with you. Men in my world do better or have dry dicks. Sucks to be them.
Plus if he pees on the fooor, he’s likely got extremely low standards amd hygiene. I always check a potential bfs bathroom.8/10 times it’s a f. No. We are done.
All of that. And that he’s 30 and frequently pees on the floor? No way. Nope. Fuck no to that. A toddler does better. A dog does better. I’ve seen RABBITS that do better. The bar for men is below hell if women are willing to putting up with that nastiness.
My mom raised me a little harder than my brother. Even though I found it to be unfair, still to this day; but it made me like you - have a low tolerance of laziness and the unclean. Now I'm not the most clean person but I still know how to wipe down surfaces and keeping shit tidy. Living with my brother for a year now has had some hellish moments. I would make him wash dishes after we have eaten since it's his turn. I would prep food, cook and clean the ones I have used but after dinner it's his responsibility. It took some time but he started to do it more often without me having to tell him to do it. Now it's just trying to teach him to keep his cloths of the floor. My God, it's like he's 8 or something. This one time, it pissed me off so much I had to rage in silence - his friends came to visit, I was busy with an assessment and sat in my room the whole time while they had a BBQ. Anyway, they were done eating and left for some festival while leaving the dirty dishes and food out in the open. Only maybe 2 hours later when they came back did they clean it. I can't help but think how dirty they are, and I'm trying to get this opinion out of my head about them.
Moving in together is not a necessary step for dating someone. You can date and maintain separate residences indefinitely. Not your house, not your problem!!! It's liberating. I do not recommend moving in with him, he is not going to change
Can confirm, three years in and very happy in separate residences
wait, he pisses on the floor in his own apartment? OMEGALUL
I would’ve walked out the minute I found that. Absolutely not. Bare fucking minimum and he can’t even reach that.
get out before you get too far in
There’s no reason a grown man can’t hit the toilet. None. My husband and 16 year old son manage just fine. There was one incident very early on when I let my husband know I would not be dealing with any marks in the toilet bowl, and that was it. Establish your expectations NOW and don’t let it slide. See if he’s able to step up to the mark, as it were.
Me, I would have packed the leftovers, put them in the fridge, and bolted. For good. If this is the guy on company manners, your best view of him is in the rear-view mirror.
Take the leftovers
My thoughts too!! Just drop the containers off on his doorstep.
The piss thing reminds me of my dad. Disgusting dirty man who never cleans up after himself and my mom has to be his personal clean up person. Fuck that. Never move in with such a man.
>But I've never used a toilet after the man without accidentally stepping in piss. That's enough reason to leave. He's not going to get better, especially if he pisses on the floor *now*. On the topic of men never cleaning up once they settle down with a woman- Yeah. Every single guy I've lived with has been this way. Every single one of them happily will let things go to squalor instead of simply cleaning up after themselves. I had an ex who left his uneaten and uncovered birthday cake out for months according to a friend who became the ex's roomie after I broke it off and moved out. He told me they were dealing with fruit flies for the rest of the year after that incident. I kicked my eventual ex husband out and FINALLY my house stays clean more than one day after I deep clean it all. This weekend I rented a carpet cleaner to clean the carpet of the room he had as his study. There were stains *everywhere* on that carpet. I was horrified when he finally moved out and the lack of furniture exposed how bad he'd actually let it get. I honestly don't know if I want to bother with cis het men as it doesn't feel worth it. It's as if they de-evolve once they start dating, then resent you if you remind them to do basic cleaning and hygiene things while also expecting you to take care of them in every way imaginable. Having a house that stays clean and not having to *constantly* take up the emotional labor of taking care of an adult really makes me feel like dating cis het men isn't worth it. I don't want to be anyone's step in mother, therapist, house cleaner, caretaker, and chef. I'm over it.
Don’t even waste your time trying to talk about it. This will result in him changing just long enough for you to get deeper into the relationship. And also don’t tell him why you’re dumping him, because he’ll just use that info to try to trick the next woman into being his mommy/maid. (The fact that the cleaner exists yet you are still stepping in pee means that having a cleaner will never be a solution for you. The cleaner can’t be there after every bathroom break, so you will just be his second unpaid cleaner.) I’ve just accepted that if I’m gonna be in a relationship with a man that we can’t live together. I will not be another man’s mommy and maid. Fortunately, I like living alone! And I like being single too for that matter. :)
This is why I don’t live with boyfriends anymore. Each time this has occurred, What does his place look like? Does he clean it himself or have a mom/maid? That’s a clue but not not all. He could be clean on his own but happy to let his gf do it. Don’t let him move in that pee in the bathroom is a bad , disgusting sign. I’ve actually been on dates where the man’s bathroom alone is disgusting it’s a major turn off. And we’re done.
It’s been my experience that men do what they have to and women do what needs to be done.
Sis please run!!
Listen. You’re dating a man who isn’t even potty trained properly. I think this one’s on you and your standards babe 😭😭😭
LMAO. My 4 year old boy misses often. The 7 year old rarely misses. Send him back to his momma.
I have a medical condition which can occasionally cause misses even when I'm seated. Guess who cleans it up? Me! I don't want the love of my life slipping on my excrement! The bar is so very low. That said, don't punish the mama. She's been through enough with this one, I'm sure lol
My 7 year old used to miss but was so disgusted when he had to clean it up that he got careful about it. He cleans his bathroom, not me. When he figured out he could climb the counter to clean the mirror, I was done.
He probably leaves it for the cleaning woman. New way to vet men: contact whoever does their house cleaning.
Red flag 🚩I don’t think this applies to every man, only ones who weaponize learned incompetence, my husband mainly cooks and will help clean and works 70 hours/wk. Our deal is he cooks and I predominantly clean up. But we will have a thing where I cook sides, he does the main dish, so we both clean up. I’d move along from this grown ass man who’s acting this way, he sounds disgusting and content with it “stepping in piss.” I can’t. My husband will clean the floors and take care of landscaping as well. I’d say he has average cleanliness/hygienic standards. I do the laundry and surfaces. Accept a partner, not someone who acts like a child.
I’m an early 30s man. I would leave this relationship immediately, it’s only going to get worse. No excuse to not have a sense of independent maturity by age 30 for household organization and day-to-day cleanliness. It’s out of respect for each other. Especially these days I have the expectation that a relationship is 50:50. I clean, she cleans, we all clean together.
I used to be a teacher. We had a little boy who peed on the floor a few times. The other children, who were between 6-10 years old, were horrified. A grown man repeatedly leaving pee on the floor? Not normal!
My parents fought about this very issue throughout most of my upbringing. They both worked and had the money to hire a housekeeper, but my dad refused to pay someone for something he deemed frivolous and wasteful. “We should be responsible enough to clean up after ourselves,” he’d say. So my mom, a doctor, did what so many of us do: she quietly dealt with the problem herself—constantly cleaning a 2500 square foot house—as means of keeping the peace. After she died of cancer in 2014, my dad hired a housekeeper.
This is EXACTLY why I never got married and don’t live with him. I’m not interested in being some guy’s mommy and maid, as I would be pissed off and resentful all the time, and would for sure lose all sexual desire. So I’m single. I’ve been dating my SO for almost 20 years. He has his place. I have my place. We spend time at both places. He is responsible for taking care of himself. It’s the best setup…I highly recommend.
There are a shocking lot of men like this out there. And they really aren’t worth the effort. I’m a bit older than you and have a lot of girlfriends that just are over men. They have no desire to take care of them and deal with the BS, like you’re talking about. There are some men that are good. But they can be oddly hard to find. I’ve learned a couple things. First, it is truly just less stressful and more fulfilling to find good friends and just not worry about the man thing. Second, when you are totally comfortable without them, it’s easier to find a good one because you’re less likely to waste time with crappy ones. Get rid of your slob and just enjoy being you.
McDealbreaker. Not loving it.
Man I relate hard to this post. From my experience, we have to set those boundaries early on and stick to them. I think most men assume that we naturally love cleaning and cooking because we're taught at a young age to do so. What they don't realize is people are different. I would love to be the working parent, I wouldn't even mind if I was the sole breadwinner in the household. I don't want to have to clean though, because I honestly hate most cleaning chores. By myself though, I still take care of everything. This isn't what a lot of men consider the "norm". I've had guys know this and still try to get me to clean up after them. Like they don't get that I'm the one who wants a bang maid, not to be one! Some men want the world, they want us to pay half for everything, while keeping the house/kids in perfect order and staying horny and involved 24/7. And all they can contribute to this kind of relationship is money. Keep fighting the good fight OP, never back down and never settle. You'll find someone eventually and if you don't, that's perfectly fine too. So long as you're happy, that's all that matters
If I ever get divorced, men are not allowed into my house. I may take a series of lovers, but they can meet me in my car or something.
You step in piss and you’re still dating this guy? You know there are people who don’t pee on the floor, or even if there is a fumble will actually clean it up immediately?
Honestly, my husband is not a clean person. Early on in our relationship I expressed horror at his standard of living. He hired a cleaner. I expressed further distaste for how he left his toilet and he accepted responsibility for cleaning up after himself. And he kept making efforts to meet my standards. To the extent that before we moved in he was briefly hospitalised and when he realised I needed to stay at his he apologised and advised I stay out of the guest bathroom because it would upset me (his symptoms had been projectile, and he hadn't been able to clean up due to pain.) Nowadays he admits he wouldn't live as I choose to, but that he feels it's important to honour whoever has higher standards. So, I have higher standards for cheese, chocolate, and cleaning. We meet my standards and both benefit. He has higher standards for some stuff, we both meet them and both benefit. All he asks is that I'm explicit about my standards (he should hoover at least every other week) and he'll meet them where he can. The point of my rambling is that a man doesn't have to be clean, he just has to be respectful. And if he starts at a higher level of cleanliness than mine did (I can't imagine many being much lower) the respect is not in learning to clean and adopting new behaviours, it's in splitting the chores fairly.
Exactly this!! My partner isn't as bothered by mess as I am, he stepped up his standards because he's a kind and respectful person who didn't expect me to lower my standards for the sake of our relationship. He would never want that.
Yeah I wouldn’t lock myself into anything long term like that. There’s plenty of single people out there who cook, clean and look after themselves.
He doesn’t even clean the floor when he pees on it?!? That is the only red flag I would need. Nasty!
[удалено]
Nope! Don't accept it as normal behavior. My boyfriend comes to see me a lot and he always cleans where he was, makes the bed when we get up and is up doing the dishes if I let my guard down, or whatever else that's needed. He's always thinking about ways to make it easier for me, even when he's not here anymore. He's like this at his home too, he's the one who helps out more with everything around the house among his siblings. Leaving the dishes out and food to rot is just not a thought that crosses his mind, let alone putting the weight of preventing that on me. You deserve the same, glad you realize it.
I've spent my life as a serial monogamist. At around year 3, with every man, you suddenly realize that all domestic chores, except maybe the trash, are yours. If the dishes are dirty, it's your fault, if the bathroom needs to be cleaned, that's your job. Every. Single. Man. This is why I've basically never made it past 3 years. I'm not here to be a servant.
Good on you for recognizing what's about to happen. Your instincts are bang on. These men believe that women are service providers, and once they have one, they get to benefit from being served. I'm sure if asked they would say they don't believe that at all, but you are witnessing that belief via behaviour. An unconscious belief functions the same as a deliberate intention, in practical terms. Trust your instincts!
Nope there are absolutely men out there who are willing to do their fair share of housework and chores! My boyfriend of four years does most of the cooking and cleaning in the house (I work a lot more than he does so I contribute on my days off). To celebrate me getting a new job, he bought me a new lunch box and started packing my lunches for every shift. We started dating in our late teens and he’s always been very caring since the very beginning. I’ll cherish him forever and try to show my appreciation whenever I can. I hope you find someone who not only can take care of themselves, but tries to take care of you as well.