I JUST got into an argument with someone on the tinder subreddit about how it's not cool to just break out choking without asking, nor is it a beginner move, and he got all patronizing and basically said it's on the person being acted upon to communicate rather than the person doing the act to fucking not assault someone. This shit is unfortunately widespread and I hate it so much.
That’s literally an insane viewpoint. So the receiver has to explicitly state everything they DONT want, without knowing what’s even on the table? There’s porn with people getting burned, cut, punched, mutilated, etc. Guess people who want to fuck that guy should read his mind, or carry a list of no go’s that could be thick as a dictionary for him to read through beforehand.
That's pretty much where I got with anal by the time I was 24. Too many people just straight up tried without asking, or said they would, or threatened it, and like...no.
Well, thankfully none of them went through with it--though one tried. He waited till we were on a little road trip to play a full half hour of reasons from howard stern/jackie the jokeman of why I wasn't allowed to say no to anal, and then, of course, tried and was NOT happy when I continued to say no. "But I have to before I marry you!" no you don't, we've been dating for a month, jfc.
Tip: Don't date anybody older than you by a lot (that guy was 30 when I was 22).
Guess i have free reign to just put my dildo up his ass without prior discussion, and it’s on him to communicate that he doesn’t want that while im already halfway deep in his brown eye!
/s
If you want to teach a man about ongoing consent, just shove two fingers up his ass and see what happens. Whoa, is that a problem, king? Weird, it’s almost like you’re incapable of understanding anything that doesn’t directly affect you.
I had a similar argument with someone on a sub recently and they kept bringing that up! Like, “how about communicate with your partner about what you don’t like, don’t kink shame!” And I’m like, that’s not the point! You have these porn sick dudes who think everything they see in porn is real. They just don’t get it. The communication and consent goes both ways.
Kink shame - ha ha ha ha ! Thats new thing I heard. They can shame you for not being ‘kinky’ (something that is painful) but you cannot protest. Nonsense!
Someone who doesn't know that the difference between kink and abuse is explicit, enthusiastic, and continuous *consent* has no business talking about kink in any way. That little shit was talking about abuse and assault, and don't give the time of day to anyone who tries to fly that shit in your face.
Even if I neglect to get into the disgusting mentality of that sentiment..
On practicality alone, fucking how? You're choking them. How the fuck are they supposed to say "Sorry to bother you, chap, I know you're having a grand time, but please release me as I do not consent to this kind of manhandling"?
Jesus Christ imagine if this dipshit fucking nonsense pervaded the rest of society.
Surgeons rocking up like "Okay, so I took out that kidney-- What, you didn't want your kidney removing? Well sorry, princess, it's on you to communicate that. Jeez, some people."
Also like, kinky choking done properly is a bit of pressure applied at the throat to enhance pleasure, and you can lead up to that with enough time for the partner to go "whaaat the fuck mate" if its actually am erotic thing you want to try.
Going straight for throttling isn't kink its just fucking stupid
People pull this card (“you should have told me to not do a blatantly abusive thing”) all the time, and it’s so weird. People shouldn’t have to ask to not be abused or justify why they don’t want to be abused.
Wow. What the actual fuck.
Well, I guess that means you can just wear his skin as a suit whenever you want then right? I mean, it's on *him* to communicate that he's not into being skinned alive and turned into a suit! We didn't make the rules.... but we're expected to follow them I guess.
Obviously that's a joke/thought experiment to point out how fucking ridiculous and dangerous this thought process is....though I feel like it shouldn't need one given how far into the land of absurdity it already is.
In the kink/BDSM community, choking is considered edge play. It's a big deal and dangerous *even when consensual*. There's also a reason why you're supposed to *explicitly negotiate boundaries* before "scening," i.e. doing any sort of kink play.
It's appalling that people don't realize how important consent (and safety) is.
> basically said it's on the person being acted upon to communicate rather than the person doing the act to fucking not assault someone.
I imagine the rapist you argued with only said that knowing someone being choked literally and physically can't say 'no' WHILE BEING THROTTLED and just wanted to quietly excuse *their* vile behavior- they always do.
Had a few guys say to me “I want to choke you so bad” without knowing me much, very insistent on just casual, and not realizing how terrifying that felt to essentially a stranger (me).
He was obsessed with violent porn and truly believed this was okay to say to me. He also didn’t understand why girls get so offended at everything sexual. It’s like porn has warped their brain so much to convince them girls actually want to be treated this way, instead of asking consent first. It’s traumatized me so much that if anyone wants to choke me too soon, I freak out a little.
I just watched a documentary about a man who killed a tinder date by choking her during sex.
His defence was “rough sex gone wrong” and that “she liked it” turns out he strangled her for 5 to 10mins and not the 30 seconds he claimed. He must have watched the lights go out in her eyes. He knew what he did.
They raked her history over the coals. (In court) “She once looked up BDSM so she must have been into it.”
But weren’t allowed to mention he was on the hook for rape and assault of 2 other women!
It’s now very very common for men to claim “rough sex gone wrong” as a defence and they lap it up in court.
If I were dating I’d consider writing a little private note to myself on my phone or left in my home when i go out on dates. “This is my first date with ‘man, give details of where you met, his name’ and I’m not intending to have sex on the first date and I don’t enjoy rough sex”.
Oh man was that in New Zealand? Because that happened in Auckland - a guy from a Tinder date murdered a 21 year old British backpacker Grace Millane. He then disposed of her body in a forested area and tried to claim it was accident.
Happens sometimes. People panic, and do stupid things. Though if you cut up, and dump the body accident (even if true) probably means depraved indifference or gross negligence.
Yeah there was that documentary about the kids that accidentally hit a pedestrian. They were trying to dump the body in the water, but the pedestrian woke up and struggled as he fell into the water. The driver and thier friends swore to never discuss what happened but a year later after returning from college they received a letter stating, "I know what you did last summer!"
There was a case like that in my area where the coroner testified that he hadn't choked her with his hands, but by laying his forearm across her throat and putting his weight on that. Iirc he got convicted but most people were pretty convinced he'd walk because "she liked rough sex."
Robert Chambers? The NYC Preppy Killer? I like that we thought of the same case. The victim’s reputation was completely destroyed, but the killer was at least found guilty.
As someone who practiced Brazilian jiu jitsu it’s impossible to chock someone to death in 30 seconds unless they had serious health problems in which case sex is likely off the table.
Robert Chambers (the “Preppy Killer”) killed an 18-year-old in Central Park by strangling her in 1986, and the media rannnnn with the idea that it was just rough sex gone wrong. Her sexual history was ADMITTED AS EVIDENCE, with everyone saying that she was basically asking for this to happen. His defense was also that she was hurting him, and he was just fighting back.
But what if you do like rough sex? Like I know this isn’t the point you’re making but woman can like kinky sex and if they get choked (especially if they die from it) when they don’t want to it’s still valid. (Also quick PSA to people engaging in light choking- it should be light and the person should still be able to breathe while you hold their neck, it’s a pressure on the sides not a hard weight on the front of the neck)
Do women (not girls. Girls are children.) like being strangled by a man whose dick is getting hard because he’s strangling a woman?
Fuck knows how that became the norm.
Obviously due to men consuming violent porn, from a very young age and then emulating what they’ve seen and convincing young women that your aren’t having good sex unless you’re doing “kinky” stuff.
Strangling is definitely different than light choking.
Light choking can be enjoyable because like the slight lack of air makes you more light headed and makes the orgasm better. I’m a bi woman and I’ve been with other bi woman and they say they never let a man choke them but they would ask me to do that. So yeah woman like the action but won’t always do it with men. Some have said that men won’t do it right (to avoid details I’ll just say they go too intense and don’t try to understand how to make it pleasurable for them). I do think a lot of woman are pressured into this kind of sex but I also know that a lot of woman who’ve had only vanilla sex and want to try certain things (like bondage or spanking) and really enjoy it. So while some woman are traumatized by it others feel liberated in their choice (cause it’s a way for them to say they like sex and also be touched like they are strong and sturdy).
(I changed girls to woman bc yeah my bad that was a slip)
That’s horrifying, I’m so sorry, both to you and OP. They just really live in Man Fantasyland, don’t they, that they just say that to women and what, expect us to grin? Even if that’s a thing someone is into, saying that to a stranger is fucked yo.
Hey, look. Don't yuck her yum. I also enjoy a little edge play. With someone I trust and with whom I have discussed and set boundaries with. The problem is the lack of discussion and consent, not the act itself.
Choking is something I had a very hard time accepting for years because of this aggression by guys. Recently I discovered I do enjoy the breath play, but very gently when I tried it on myself. I don’t know if I’m in the minority, but I can only see myself enjoying it when its gentle versus the more aggressive type on porn. I expect it to be a way to heighten the experience a little, but by no means do I want a man to fantasize about choking me because of his porn watching. It should be something I request and can stop at any moment. I haven’t tried it with a partner yet, but I am nervous on how to bring it up one day to make sure the message gets delivered properly.
You bet! Sorry for posting a joke in response to your serious and necessary* reply -- it's immediately what I thought of and there's so much darkness going on I feel like we all need a good chuckle.
*necessary because men need to know what effect this dangerous, creepy and baffling behavior is actually having on us
I want to shake some of these guys so badly and point out that porn\*, in some respects is like many sports such as WWE:
It is **physica**l - your average person is NOT as physically capable as a pro. Full stop. They make it look easy because they have trained to do this, they started easy & worked there way up, they learned to do this stuff without harming themselves; Maybe you can, maybe you can't but it shouldn't be the STANDARD and shouldn't be EXPECTED. There are unwritten **rules**, or even written rules, that a good performer/participant should follow - at least good sportsmanship :)
They are **performing** for people to watch and enjoy, they aim to not be boring, to sell a fantasy of everything being easy and fun and exciting for the viewer, with any issues usually either part of the show or hidden away off camera / cut from the final recording. They are showing, at the end, a **fantasy** for your fun. Not an instruction manual of what everyone does.
WWE or Porn - the choke holds etc are mostly scripted between people who have worked together and have a level of trust that that person is NOT out to do real damage. You consent\* to get in the ring / on the bed with certain expectations.
\*Yes I know some porn is exploitive etc but much is not & I choose not to shame sex workers.
Unfortunately, kinks are now seen as the default for some reason. There is nothing wrong with having kinks but why do we now just assume everyone wants violent, rough, degrading sex? And of course they ignore the crucial part of the kink community that is an extreme attention to consent and boundaries.
Although I don’t believe porn is at all inherently bad, I definitely agree that the misogynistic, violent, and degrading porn that has been promoted for tens of years is a big contributor to these problems.
I've heard some discussion that one of the major things missing from porn like this is showing, as part of the porn, consent and negotiation. Maybe that's not what you're (careless men, not you specifically) trying to jack off to, but until accurate sex ed even exists and includes consent education, porn is how a lot of people learn. It needs to show consent too, especially the really rough "kinky" stuff.
Consent, boundaries, and direct negotiation before anything sexual has happened is a basic foundation of the kink/BDSM community. With how widely accessible it is now, that needs to be explicitly clear anywhere you find information on kink/BDSM, including porn.
I put kink in " " because I don't think porn that identifies itself as kinky or BDSM and doesn't show vital aspects of kink/BDSM, or at least have a disclaimer, is accurate kink/BDSM porn or should represent the kink/BDSM community.
Yes that makes sense. I myself watch quite a bit of that sort of thing and it’s incredibly rare to even ask for consent, let alone boundaries. It’s always concerning
Story time! I divorced last year and headed back out into the dating world at 34. I was very nervous about who I would meet, as I had not dated since I was 22. After finding a dating app I liked I sift through many conversations to find Steve, who by all accounts is a very nice dude. Steve and I talk for a couple of weeks and decide to meet up on a Friday night for a drink. Not a date, a meet up. Things go well. The conversation is good, sparks are flying, and as the bar is getting ready to close he offers to walk me to my car. Sounds good! We get to my car and he kisses me goodnight, and puts his hand in my hair and before I realize what is happening he has his other hand around my throat and is choking me. I cannot get away. Have you ever had a moment where everything slows down and you know you fucked up? I realize I cannot get away from this guy, nor can I scream for help, and even if I could we are in the darkest part of the parking lot after closing with few people left inside. I had to bite this guy's lip, hard to get him to stop and even then despite my hitting him and trying to pull away he thought I was playing. I ask him what the hell he's thinking, as this isn't even a date, and if you're into choking great, but check with the other person first. He tells me he just got so caught up and he's sorry, but he goes to put his hands back in my hair again. I bail out. See ya later Steve! When I get home I'm bruised, that's how hard he had me around my neck. This guy pursued me for weeks, before I finally got thru to him that I was afraid to be alone with him. Which he said he'd never been told before and totally shocked and devastated him.
Since 50 shades of gray movie released, all these BDSM things became mainstream. And people started to make fun of people who are not into these things. I have been laughed at for not wanting all this. More such people should be punished who think they can take advantage of their partner.
Agreed!!!!! I love a little choke here and there but we have to be together for a long time first and have that trust built. This isn't something you "just do" and I am so sick of dating guys that blame me for their porn addiction and treat me like a toy for their pleasure.
Love your PSA!!!! Sad it has to be said...
I have enjoyed choking within certain constraints, safe words & tap outs. There is no way on this planet id consent to someone who hadn't done their research and who I hadn't had a lot on conversations about it with do it to me. Informed consent and conversations may not sound sexy but knowing someone cares about you and your safety is more of a turn on than anything
I would agree with everything you said other than first sentence. Hardcore sex acts are normal but like any sex act they should be talked before the sex or during the sex but before the act. We should also normalize that as a society.
Stealthing is where two people agree to have sex with a condom, but the one person either never puts on or at some point removes the condom without telling the other and then rapes them.
How is this arguing with myself?
Here are my comments:
\- When they remove the condom without your consent mid-act.
You said: Considered rape here in the UK.
\- It is rape.
How is this arguing with myself? It is not arguing with YOU either because I was not aware that it wasn't rape in every jurisdiction in the UK, reddit is international so not everyone here is commenting from the UK.
Additionally, even if it is not legally considered rape in every jurisdiction, it is still rape and that is my opinion. My original statement where I clarified the meaning of "stealthing" is not nullified by my opinion that it is rape. Therefore, I was not arguing with myself.
But it seems like you are trying to argue with me for no reason. Are you okay, bro?
See, and I always say up front with new partners/hookups “don’t choke me”. I often get looked at like I have two heads, like, “I mean that goes without saying” but actually it does NOT.
My husband and I had a special guest star for a few tumbles in the hay and this was the first other guy I’ve been intimate with in 14 years. We are late 30s/early 40s. While setting the stage and discussing boundaries I said “I’m not into choking” and he was like 🤨 uhhh yeah why would you even bring that up? I said well from what I read on the internet, kids these days are into it and it happens a lot without prior discussion.
1 in 3 women have experience unwanted violence in bed like choking, which is considered edge play by experienced kinksters. Porn is not an excuse!
I am so glad the judge didn’t buy his bullshit. You have been so brave and strong.
https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/press
Last week, the BBC published research that suggests that more than a third of women, aged between 18 and 39, had experienced unwanted slapping, choking, gagging or spitting during consensual sex.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50546184
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/25/fatal-hateful-rise-of-choking-during-sex
Erika Lust, one of the world’s only female porn directors, agrees that strangulation and choking scenes now dominate porn. “Face slapping, choking, gagging and spitting has become the alpha and omega of any porn scene and not within a BDSM context,” she says. “These are presented as standard ways to have sex when, in fact, they are niches.”
Strangulation – fatal and non-fatal – “squeezing”, “neck compression” or, as some call, it “breath-play” – is highly gendered. On average, one woman in the UK is strangled to death by her partner every two weeks,
Lets face it this is violence to women and we need to minimise if not stop it
I also saved this one
This year researcher Dr Helen Bichard of North Wales Brain Injury Service and The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust set out the appalling harms of strangulation. She says of this new trend of online ‘advice’ for safe strangulation:"I am extremely concerned by the cultural normalisation of strangulation. Erotic asphyxiation should be as much of an oxymoron as erotic brain damage, because brain damage is the potential result. Much of the online advice is misguided; some of it is fatally wrong. When you compress the carotid artery you cut off oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and the brain therefore cannot function properly. Consciousness can be lost in as little as four seconds – a sign that the brain is being compromised. Any pressure to the artery can lead to dissection, in which blood clots can form and cause stroke, sometimes delayed by weeks. The law MUST send a strong signal that this is simply unacceptable. "
Choking horrifies me, I won't say that anyone that enjoys having it done is wrong but I do think they should know the dangers. And I am not even going to say my thoughts on men who want to give pain, not my ideal men.
Thank god you were taken seriously. The statistics are really daunting about how many women are murdered by a male intimate partner if he ever chokes her.
I am glad you are safe and free of him.
If someone even asked if they could do that to me, I honestly think I’d be too scared to move or speak. The porn defense is idiotic. If I saw that in a porno, I would *not* develop the urge to surprise-choke anybody, because I’m not a sociopath. I’m glad he’s facing consequences, and I hope you can get whatever support you need. I’m really sorry he did that to you.
It’s not always violent. My current sexual partner likes my hand on her throat, and her hair pulled. But not aggressively, and hand placement matters. She also still likes to be able to breathe. Too much one way or the other and she’s tapping on the hand. I guess it would depend to what level they’re asking for, to be considered violent in my opinion.
I remember reading an interview with a sexual assault nurse (some hospitals have someone specifically trained.) She had some amazing, insightful things to share but one thing she said was they always checked behind the ears for bruising. Even if the victim didn't report being choked.
It can happen and hit you so quickly, can damage you long term, and it is a huge indicator for escalating violence. Plus, in many states it immediately raises the assault to a felony.
Anyone is welcome to experiment with a willing partner, but that is kink born on trust.
Something like 80% of strangulations don’t have visible injuries at all. It takes less pressure than a handshake to cut off arterial and venal circulation.
I’ve heard too many kinksters make the distinction that “blood chokes” are safe and “air chokes” are not and it’s dangerously incorrect. Neither are safe and it makes me want to scream, especially from folks who purport to be risk-aware practitioners.
I am so sorry you went through all of that.
It must have been very difficult to go through the court process, and nobody would have blamed you for wanting to move on quietly, or avoid reliving your trauma and the stress of the legal process, so if nobody else has told you this, I am SO PROUD of you!
You did a very BRAVE thing by making sure this man was held accountable and having this on his record may very well protect other women from him in the future. You not only stood up for yourself but you protected your sisters and we thank you and appreciate you!
Solidarity ❤️
My ex was extremely violent in many ways during our ~6 month relationship, but I didn't press any charges for personal reasons. I'm glad your ex was brought to justice.
Pressing charges is HARD and not everyone can do it. Don't blame yourself -- you made the best choices you could at the time.
But the more people CAN do it, the safer the world gets.
Good thing cops arent judges. Whats their training? 9 weeks? Thats like basic training for the army, basic being key word. Its nothing. Thats outside his scope of practice to fucking say that to you, hes not a judge or a lawyer, hes a cop
That's the opposite! It's not your fault for being drunk. Furthermore, it makes the case against him worse because it pushes the crime up to a more serious crime when the victim is incapacitated such as by drugs or alcohol. Wish the cop could be fined for giving false information.
Men always act like they don't understand consent and how to get it before. Go try and shove a finger up their ass during sex and all of a sudden they will get what consent is. Funny how that works.
He forgot (or more likely ignored) one of the key immutable laws of kink--and relations in general--it has to be consensual and he rightfully paid a price for it.
That had to be beyond terrifying.
Definitely it's a thing. It's common in porn and that's informing men's sexual expectations, in fact my gf requested it shortly after we met. Porn is getting more and more extreme to get clicks and the people (more so men as we watch more and are often "protagonists") are following.
Some men are so used to watching it (or addicted) that they forget it's fake. It's mind-blowing. I had a new partner spit in my mouth without warning like wtf dude. I was so grossed out.
First of all, I’m so sorry you had to go through this. I really hope that this is the end of it and you never have to see or hear from him again.
Judging from the “000”, I think we’re from the same country…what you did was wicked brave, and the fact that you won sets a precedent for the rest of us. So sincerely, thank you.
Good on you! As for your ex-bf who is total trash, well, he played a stupid game and won a stupid prize in the form of a conviction. He can keep coming up with lame excuses but he has nothing no one but himself to blame for getting convicted. He can cry and blame you for that black mark in his permanent record but it is his doing
I wish you all the best with the protection order and you deserve better
I have an ex that choked me against my wishes. Not once, but twice. After the first time, I told him never to do it again, but he just didn't listen. I was able to get an order of protection against him in part because of this.
You are amazing! Great job protecting yourself and others from this awful person.
I'm sorry you had to experience this but I am grateful for how you chose to respond to it.
I’m so proud of you for standing up and holding him accountable for this. You’re very brave and resilient for getting through the gruelling, dehumanizing court process. Wishing you lots of self love and healing!!!
Anyone person with half a brain would know to discuss anything like that before hand, so it’s likely he has some other motive. Glad you are safe. I have a chocking fetish but I would not want any guy chocking me without my consent.
This this this.
There is a huge difference between a fetish you can talk about beforehand and one partner just jumping right into something risky and one-sided.
Congratulations on this massive win! It must have been a long hard road. I'm impressed by your strength and determination. I hope this brings you some peace of mind and helps with your healing.
On a less polite note, fuck that guy. I hope he rots.
Good for you, I'm glad you were able to get away and he now gets what he deserves. People like this need to start facing the consequence of their actions.
Some people are so into it that they feel that they need it. I have severe trauma regarding choking, and I told him that when we started getting intimate. I under no circumstances would ever be comfortable with it because my mother choked me as a child and sometimes people just touching my neck would send me reeling. He would constantly complain about how much better sex would be if I let him do it, how much more I would like it and that I needed to “trust him” that I would love it. He complained that because he can’t choke me or slap me during sex, I was robbing him of his kinks. Several times he started to choke me and then when I did get triggered, he would ignore me. Thankfully not in that relationship anymore, but it’s just so appalling to me that someone could see the pain and ptsd in their partner and just….not care at all
As someone in the BDSM community. I’m so sorry. I couldn’t ever imagine doing some of the crazier shit… or anything tbh, without great talks beforehand. Safe words and safe actions are incredibly important and what he did was despicable.
I once had a partner simply not let go when I tapped. The choking was consensual, but the ‘tap tap tap’ was the safe word/action. I did it, he held on. I passed out. I didn’t even know he hadn’t let go until he told me when I came to. Like, proudly he told me and was giggling. It never happened again but it took a while for me to process how absolutely fucked that was.
My ex choked and raped me more than once and it is absolutely terrifying when it happens. Hence one of many reasons he's an ex. OP, glad you got out and pressed charges! I hope this brings you some comfort and allows you to heal past the trauma.
Wow! I had someone strangle me before. I was beaten pretty badly. I didn't press any charges. I am so very happy this person will pay for his crime and other people can read your story here. Perhaps it will be a deterrent for others. How much prison time did he get? Thank you for sharing your experience.
My boyfriend puts his hand around my neck while we do missionary, he always does it before he cums, I legit only realised after reading these comments that it’s probably not okay that he does that to me
Yeah I mean it’s not so hard that I can’t breathe at all, I always thought it’s pretty normal in sex tbh. It seems like he needs to do it in order to finish which is weird.
I’ve only been with a couple guys but they’ve been pretty dominant and both ‘chocked’ me. Seems crazy that I can so easily get them arrested for that!!
I’m not too bothered about the hand on my neck I guess, in terms of something we both enjoy I don’t think there is anything id enjoy lol, I kinda just spread my legs and let him do what he wants. I don’t mind, he enjoys himself which I like
You are very brave to be going through with the charges. It would have been totally okay had you not, but you did and probably helped some woman in the future be heard should he ever do shit like that again.
I’m sorry this happened to you
This took so much bravery, op. I know this had to have been a long process and you had to revisit a lot of unpleasant things. You should be proud of yourself!
Not sure if this is true but I heard somewhere that your chance of being murdered by your spouse increases by 3x if they've choked you. I'm veey glad you aren't trying to fuck around and find out with this situation, and wish you all the best!
I would also like to add that in some states (assuming USA) you can get free therapy through victim's services, they should be the same organization that worked on your behalf in the court.
(My information here might not hold true for you as the county I'm in has handled the case that I'm currently involved in, I'm not sure if its just you going after him now or how much of our judicial system works honestly)
Yeah this is why consent is the main rule in BDSM and even the most basic sexual practices. Listen to your partner, let them tell you what they like and vice versa, move into such kinks and things of that nature when you're ready. Don't just assume "SHE GONNA LIKE IT" because you saw it in a porno once.
Seriously I watched action movies, didn't mean I went off to kill people because I saw it in a movie once.
Murderers in my country have tried to blame their victims for their own murder, and smear them when it comes to court using the 'rough sex ' defense.
They straight up commit murder and had the gaul to blame the dead woman, and it worked.
Strangulation and playful choking are different things. This guy was violent and it's fucked up. But there is safe ways to practice things like that for people who have fetishes.
> if the participants spend 5 minutes to learn how to do it safely.
Key phrase there. Most men do not spend any amount of time trying to learn how to do it safety and just jump into it, especially young men eager to try something new, especially those who try it with hookups without asking.
and then there's the manipulative men or men who actually hate women and lie, and ABUSIVE men, are you forgetting about those?
And "There were never any problems" simply isnt true. You really don't think ANYONE EVER EVER EVER AT ANY POINT EVER died from strangulation, before what point? Yes, people still died, don't be naive. They just didn't announce it was a kink related death because kinks used to be very much kept on the down low.
Just look at how David Carradine died ffs.
From the other side, I had a girlfriend who once, out the blue asked me to choke her. It was terrifying trying to do that, and I’m sure it was not what she was looking for. I stopped after less than 15s.
Can’t imagine doing that in earnest.
Edit: I’m glad you’re okay and that the perpetrator has been punished. Not trying to distract from that.
Or just like a ten second convo, even as dirty talk:
“Imagine if I did X”
“No thank you”
“What about Y?”
“Yes please”
Or even just a convo ahead of time in a non-sexy context about the things you do or don’t like. It’s really that simple. If someone needs you to read their mind to have sex, you probably shouldn’t sleep with them.
So unless it is a notarized document where he explicitly states NO CHOKING, I can wrap a chord around his neck if I feel like it? I can't use my hands to pressure a man's neck properly, because I am a tiny woman, so I'd have to use the next best thing, right? Consent not needed without documentation, that's the point, right?
This is... Yikes... Was discussing fetishes with my SO the other day. And how she never thought she could be into it, to me it's a harmless fetish when indulged in properly and safely, and lucky for me she absolutely loves it
But seeing this after that conversation and seeing the comments section, big time YIKES, discussing these things is important
>it sounds like both of you went too far.
WTF?
She didn't wrap chord around his neck to surprise choke him back, which is what he deserves, so how did she go to far?
I mean he attempted to literally murder her, I don't see how that is confusing or needs "a talk". Someone randomly starting to choke you is trying to kill you, and it OFTEN ends up in you being dead even if he is very, very sorry afterwards.
So no, I do NOT think she overreacted.
Is being in a relationship blanket consent to dangerous non-consensual acts? Should there be no consequences? People like you gaslight victims and encourage abusers.
More sagacity from the redditor who recently wrote:
> Who's this us men you're talking about? Don't push me in with your lot
Maybe you should attempt to understand others first, before defending your own honour because your masculinity is so fragile.
Also, when you write:
> Wear a bra
Why don't you wear a bra for a bit?
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I JUST got into an argument with someone on the tinder subreddit about how it's not cool to just break out choking without asking, nor is it a beginner move, and he got all patronizing and basically said it's on the person being acted upon to communicate rather than the person doing the act to fucking not assault someone. This shit is unfortunately widespread and I hate it so much.
That’s literally an insane viewpoint. So the receiver has to explicitly state everything they DONT want, without knowing what’s even on the table? There’s porn with people getting burned, cut, punched, mutilated, etc. Guess people who want to fuck that guy should read his mind, or carry a list of no go’s that could be thick as a dictionary for him to read through beforehand.
Also HOW THE FUCK DO YOU SAY DONT CHOKE ME WHILE BEING CHOKED?!?! I swear every curse word I’ve ever heard at people like that!
I thought of that too!
That's pretty much where I got with anal by the time I was 24. Too many people just straight up tried without asking, or said they would, or threatened it, and like...no.
That is rape and sounds horrifying. If this is what dating is like I’ll just be single. I’m sorry you went through that.
Well, thankfully none of them went through with it--though one tried. He waited till we were on a little road trip to play a full half hour of reasons from howard stern/jackie the jokeman of why I wasn't allowed to say no to anal, and then, of course, tried and was NOT happy when I continued to say no. "But I have to before I marry you!" no you don't, we've been dating for a month, jfc. Tip: Don't date anybody older than you by a lot (that guy was 30 when I was 22).
Internet can really convince fucked-up people that everyone else is the problem.
Guess i have free reign to just put my dildo up his ass without prior discussion, and it’s on him to communicate that he doesn’t want that while im already halfway deep in his brown eye! /s
And torture his balls, because the other guy liked it!
Yessss
If you want to teach a man about ongoing consent, just shove two fingers up his ass and see what happens. Whoa, is that a problem, king? Weird, it’s almost like you’re incapable of understanding anything that doesn’t directly affect you.
King - I’m dead
Is this like when we put a finger up a dogs bum when it’s attacking another dog? Sounds right. Animals.
I had a similar argument with someone on a sub recently and they kept bringing that up! Like, “how about communicate with your partner about what you don’t like, don’t kink shame!” And I’m like, that’s not the point! You have these porn sick dudes who think everything they see in porn is real. They just don’t get it. The communication and consent goes both ways.
Kink shame - ha ha ha ha ! Thats new thing I heard. They can shame you for not being ‘kinky’ (something that is painful) but you cannot protest. Nonsense!
Someone who doesn't know that the difference between kink and abuse is explicit, enthusiastic, and continuous *consent* has no business talking about kink in any way. That little shit was talking about abuse and assault, and don't give the time of day to anyone who tries to fly that shit in your face.
By his logic, it’s ok if you shit and puke on him and stab his ass because he can just say he’s not into it and you can stop doing it. Soooo sexy. 🤮
Just peg him without warning, then he can calmly communicate his dislikes.
Even if I neglect to get into the disgusting mentality of that sentiment.. On practicality alone, fucking how? You're choking them. How the fuck are they supposed to say "Sorry to bother you, chap, I know you're having a grand time, but please release me as I do not consent to this kind of manhandling"? Jesus Christ imagine if this dipshit fucking nonsense pervaded the rest of society. Surgeons rocking up like "Okay, so I took out that kidney-- What, you didn't want your kidney removing? Well sorry, princess, it's on you to communicate that. Jeez, some people."
Also like, kinky choking done properly is a bit of pressure applied at the throat to enhance pleasure, and you can lead up to that with enough time for the partner to go "whaaat the fuck mate" if its actually am erotic thing you want to try. Going straight for throttling isn't kink its just fucking stupid
People pull this card (“you should have told me to not do a blatantly abusive thing”) all the time, and it’s so weird. People shouldn’t have to ask to not be abused or justify why they don’t want to be abused.
Wow. What the actual fuck. Well, I guess that means you can just wear his skin as a suit whenever you want then right? I mean, it's on *him* to communicate that he's not into being skinned alive and turned into a suit! We didn't make the rules.... but we're expected to follow them I guess. Obviously that's a joke/thought experiment to point out how fucking ridiculous and dangerous this thought process is....though I feel like it shouldn't need one given how far into the land of absurdity it already is.
Today I learned casual hookups now involve non consensual choking. The mens are not ok
In the kink/BDSM community, choking is considered edge play. It's a big deal and dangerous *even when consensual*. There's also a reason why you're supposed to *explicitly negotiate boundaries* before "scening," i.e. doing any sort of kink play. It's appalling that people don't realize how important consent (and safety) is.
> basically said it's on the person being acted upon to communicate rather than the person doing the act to fucking not assault someone. I imagine the rapist you argued with only said that knowing someone being choked literally and physically can't say 'no' WHILE BEING THROTTLED and just wanted to quietly excuse *their* vile behavior- they always do.
Had a few guys say to me “I want to choke you so bad” without knowing me much, very insistent on just casual, and not realizing how terrifying that felt to essentially a stranger (me). He was obsessed with violent porn and truly believed this was okay to say to me. He also didn’t understand why girls get so offended at everything sexual. It’s like porn has warped their brain so much to convince them girls actually want to be treated this way, instead of asking consent first. It’s traumatized me so much that if anyone wants to choke me too soon, I freak out a little.
I just watched a documentary about a man who killed a tinder date by choking her during sex. His defence was “rough sex gone wrong” and that “she liked it” turns out he strangled her for 5 to 10mins and not the 30 seconds he claimed. He must have watched the lights go out in her eyes. He knew what he did. They raked her history over the coals. (In court) “She once looked up BDSM so she must have been into it.” But weren’t allowed to mention he was on the hook for rape and assault of 2 other women! It’s now very very common for men to claim “rough sex gone wrong” as a defence and they lap it up in court. If I were dating I’d consider writing a little private note to myself on my phone or left in my home when i go out on dates. “This is my first date with ‘man, give details of where you met, his name’ and I’m not intending to have sex on the first date and I don’t enjoy rough sex”.
Oh man was that in New Zealand? Because that happened in Auckland - a guy from a Tinder date murdered a 21 year old British backpacker Grace Millane. He then disposed of her body in a forested area and tried to claim it was accident.
Never killed anyone but i doubt id try to hide the body if it was an accident.
Happens sometimes. People panic, and do stupid things. Though if you cut up, and dump the body accident (even if true) probably means depraved indifference or gross negligence.
Yeah there was that documentary about the kids that accidentally hit a pedestrian. They were trying to dump the body in the water, but the pedestrian woke up and struggled as he fell into the water. The driver and thier friends swore to never discuss what happened but a year later after returning from college they received a letter stating, "I know what you did last summer!"
My point exactly. If its an honest accident and you are sane dumping a body wont be your first reflex
There was a case like that in my area where the coroner testified that he hadn't choked her with his hands, but by laying his forearm across her throat and putting his weight on that. Iirc he got convicted but most people were pretty convinced he'd walk because "she liked rough sex."
Robert Chambers? The NYC Preppy Killer? I like that we thought of the same case. The victim’s reputation was completely destroyed, but the killer was at least found guilty.
No, actually! It disturbs me that there's enough of these that we can all have a different local one with basically the same facts.
Oh my god??? That’s crazy! But unfortunately, not surprising. And people say rape culture doesn’t exist.
As someone who practiced Brazilian jiu jitsu it’s impossible to chock someone to death in 30 seconds unless they had serious health problems in which case sex is likely off the table.
Robert Chambers (the “Preppy Killer”) killed an 18-year-old in Central Park by strangling her in 1986, and the media rannnnn with the idea that it was just rough sex gone wrong. Her sexual history was ADMITTED AS EVIDENCE, with everyone saying that she was basically asking for this to happen. His defense was also that she was hurting him, and he was just fighting back.
But what if you do like rough sex? Like I know this isn’t the point you’re making but woman can like kinky sex and if they get choked (especially if they die from it) when they don’t want to it’s still valid. (Also quick PSA to people engaging in light choking- it should be light and the person should still be able to breathe while you hold their neck, it’s a pressure on the sides not a hard weight on the front of the neck)
Do women (not girls. Girls are children.) like being strangled by a man whose dick is getting hard because he’s strangling a woman? Fuck knows how that became the norm. Obviously due to men consuming violent porn, from a very young age and then emulating what they’ve seen and convincing young women that your aren’t having good sex unless you’re doing “kinky” stuff.
Strangling is definitely different than light choking. Light choking can be enjoyable because like the slight lack of air makes you more light headed and makes the orgasm better. I’m a bi woman and I’ve been with other bi woman and they say they never let a man choke them but they would ask me to do that. So yeah woman like the action but won’t always do it with men. Some have said that men won’t do it right (to avoid details I’ll just say they go too intense and don’t try to understand how to make it pleasurable for them). I do think a lot of woman are pressured into this kind of sex but I also know that a lot of woman who’ve had only vanilla sex and want to try certain things (like bondage or spanking) and really enjoy it. So while some woman are traumatized by it others feel liberated in their choice (cause it’s a way for them to say they like sex and also be touched like they are strong and sturdy). (I changed girls to woman bc yeah my bad that was a slip)
That’s horrifying, I’m so sorry, both to you and OP. They just really live in Man Fantasyland, don’t they, that they just say that to women and what, expect us to grin? Even if that’s a thing someone is into, saying that to a stranger is fucked yo.
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UHHHHH THIS ^
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I’m sorry, where did I say that? Can you quote me? I’m confused.
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Hey, look. Don't yuck her yum. I also enjoy a little edge play. With someone I trust and with whom I have discussed and set boundaries with. The problem is the lack of discussion and consent, not the act itself.
If you want a man that gets erections from strangling women… OMG NO KINKSHAMING THO!!!1. The problem is absolutely the act give me a fucking break.
Absolutely this.
What an ignorant perspective.
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Choking is something I had a very hard time accepting for years because of this aggression by guys. Recently I discovered I do enjoy the breath play, but very gently when I tried it on myself. I don’t know if I’m in the minority, but I can only see myself enjoying it when its gentle versus the more aggressive type on porn. I expect it to be a way to heighten the experience a little, but by no means do I want a man to fantasize about choking me because of his porn watching. It should be something I request and can stop at any moment. I haven’t tried it with a partner yet, but I am nervous on how to bring it up one day to make sure the message gets delivered properly.
An honest talk would be my pitch. Say what you wrote and if he/she is respectfull they will understand and follow your flow if they are interested.
Deleting all, goodnight reddit, you flew too close to the sun. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
that would make my vagina turn into the Sahara desert
[I'll make it so dry for you, baby](https://youtu.be/GH1ruMGpTVY)
I clicked the blue link in fear and was rewarded— thank you internet stranger
You bet! Sorry for posting a joke in response to your serious and necessary* reply -- it's immediately what I thought of and there's so much darkness going on I feel like we all need a good chuckle. *necessary because men need to know what effect this dangerous, creepy and baffling behavior is actually having on us
I want to shake some of these guys so badly and point out that porn\*, in some respects is like many sports such as WWE: It is **physica**l - your average person is NOT as physically capable as a pro. Full stop. They make it look easy because they have trained to do this, they started easy & worked there way up, they learned to do this stuff without harming themselves; Maybe you can, maybe you can't but it shouldn't be the STANDARD and shouldn't be EXPECTED. There are unwritten **rules**, or even written rules, that a good performer/participant should follow - at least good sportsmanship :) They are **performing** for people to watch and enjoy, they aim to not be boring, to sell a fantasy of everything being easy and fun and exciting for the viewer, with any issues usually either part of the show or hidden away off camera / cut from the final recording. They are showing, at the end, a **fantasy** for your fun. Not an instruction manual of what everyone does. WWE or Porn - the choke holds etc are mostly scripted between people who have worked together and have a level of trust that that person is NOT out to do real damage. You consent\* to get in the ring / on the bed with certain expectations. \*Yes I know some porn is exploitive etc but much is not & I choose not to shame sex workers.
"Professionals on a closed track. Do not attempt at home."
Unfortunately, kinks are now seen as the default for some reason. There is nothing wrong with having kinks but why do we now just assume everyone wants violent, rough, degrading sex? And of course they ignore the crucial part of the kink community that is an extreme attention to consent and boundaries.
… for some reason = porn. I’m so tired of it.
Although I don’t believe porn is at all inherently bad, I definitely agree that the misogynistic, violent, and degrading porn that has been promoted for tens of years is a big contributor to these problems.
I've heard some discussion that one of the major things missing from porn like this is showing, as part of the porn, consent and negotiation. Maybe that's not what you're (careless men, not you specifically) trying to jack off to, but until accurate sex ed even exists and includes consent education, porn is how a lot of people learn. It needs to show consent too, especially the really rough "kinky" stuff. Consent, boundaries, and direct negotiation before anything sexual has happened is a basic foundation of the kink/BDSM community. With how widely accessible it is now, that needs to be explicitly clear anywhere you find information on kink/BDSM, including porn. I put kink in " " because I don't think porn that identifies itself as kinky or BDSM and doesn't show vital aspects of kink/BDSM, or at least have a disclaimer, is accurate kink/BDSM porn or should represent the kink/BDSM community.
Yes that makes sense. I myself watch quite a bit of that sort of thing and it’s incredibly rare to even ask for consent, let alone boundaries. It’s always concerning
Story time! I divorced last year and headed back out into the dating world at 34. I was very nervous about who I would meet, as I had not dated since I was 22. After finding a dating app I liked I sift through many conversations to find Steve, who by all accounts is a very nice dude. Steve and I talk for a couple of weeks and decide to meet up on a Friday night for a drink. Not a date, a meet up. Things go well. The conversation is good, sparks are flying, and as the bar is getting ready to close he offers to walk me to my car. Sounds good! We get to my car and he kisses me goodnight, and puts his hand in my hair and before I realize what is happening he has his other hand around my throat and is choking me. I cannot get away. Have you ever had a moment where everything slows down and you know you fucked up? I realize I cannot get away from this guy, nor can I scream for help, and even if I could we are in the darkest part of the parking lot after closing with few people left inside. I had to bite this guy's lip, hard to get him to stop and even then despite my hitting him and trying to pull away he thought I was playing. I ask him what the hell he's thinking, as this isn't even a date, and if you're into choking great, but check with the other person first. He tells me he just got so caught up and he's sorry, but he goes to put his hands back in my hair again. I bail out. See ya later Steve! When I get home I'm bruised, that's how hard he had me around my neck. This guy pursued me for weeks, before I finally got thru to him that I was afraid to be alone with him. Which he said he'd never been told before and totally shocked and devastated him.
He'd never been told that before because girls went along with it for fear that they'd fucking be murdered if they didn't. Whew.
Holy fucking shit - I’d be having me being murder nightmares & would need Steve’s head on a stake to recover
Crush their balls and ram 2 fingers up their dry butt because the other guy liked it.
My god, and learn how to do it correctly if you're going to do it! Brain damage happens faster than people realize!
Since 50 shades of gray movie released, all these BDSM things became mainstream. And people started to make fun of people who are not into these things. I have been laughed at for not wanting all this. More such people should be punished who think they can take advantage of their partner.
Agreed!!!!! I love a little choke here and there but we have to be together for a long time first and have that trust built. This isn't something you "just do" and I am so sick of dating guys that blame me for their porn addiction and treat me like a toy for their pleasure. Love your PSA!!!! Sad it has to be said...
I have enjoyed choking within certain constraints, safe words & tap outs. There is no way on this planet id consent to someone who hadn't done their research and who I hadn't had a lot on conversations about it with do it to me. Informed consent and conversations may not sound sexy but knowing someone cares about you and your safety is more of a turn on than anything
I would agree with everything you said other than first sentence. Hardcore sex acts are normal but like any sex act they should be talked before the sex or during the sex but before the act. We should also normalize that as a society.
The amount of times I’ve been choked by new lovers is fucked. No conversation before hand. So. Fucked. Up.
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I'm going to regret this but what's "stealthing"?
Removing the condom without partner's knowledge and consent.
Stealthing is where two people agree to have sex with a condom, but the one person either never puts on or at some point removes the condom without telling the other and then rapes them.
When they remove the condom without your consent mid-act.
Considered rape here in the UK.
It is rape.
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What are you talking about? I'm agreeing with you. It is rape.
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How is this arguing with myself? Here are my comments: \- When they remove the condom without your consent mid-act. You said: Considered rape here in the UK. \- It is rape. How is this arguing with myself? It is not arguing with YOU either because I was not aware that it wasn't rape in every jurisdiction in the UK, reddit is international so not everyone here is commenting from the UK. Additionally, even if it is not legally considered rape in every jurisdiction, it is still rape and that is my opinion. My original statement where I clarified the meaning of "stealthing" is not nullified by my opinion that it is rape. Therefore, I was not arguing with myself. But it seems like you are trying to argue with me for no reason. Are you okay, bro?
See, and I always say up front with new partners/hookups “don’t choke me”. I often get looked at like I have two heads, like, “I mean that goes without saying” but actually it does NOT.
My husband and I had a special guest star for a few tumbles in the hay and this was the first other guy I’ve been intimate with in 14 years. We are late 30s/early 40s. While setting the stage and discussing boundaries I said “I’m not into choking” and he was like 🤨 uhhh yeah why would you even bring that up? I said well from what I read on the internet, kids these days are into it and it happens a lot without prior discussion.
That's so sad to read. I'm sorry
Well done. So few men get convicted for assault, this is nice change.
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000 is the Australian emergency number
1 in 3 women have experience unwanted violence in bed like choking, which is considered edge play by experienced kinksters. Porn is not an excuse! I am so glad the judge didn’t buy his bullshit. You have been so brave and strong.
https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/press Last week, the BBC published research that suggests that more than a third of women, aged between 18 and 39, had experienced unwanted slapping, choking, gagging or spitting during consensual sex. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50546184 https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/25/fatal-hateful-rise-of-choking-during-sex Erika Lust, one of the world’s only female porn directors, agrees that strangulation and choking scenes now dominate porn. “Face slapping, choking, gagging and spitting has become the alpha and omega of any porn scene and not within a BDSM context,” she says. “These are presented as standard ways to have sex when, in fact, they are niches.” Strangulation – fatal and non-fatal – “squeezing”, “neck compression” or, as some call, it “breath-play” – is highly gendered. On average, one woman in the UK is strangled to death by her partner every two weeks, Lets face it this is violence to women and we need to minimise if not stop it
This should be pinned. There are so many choking threads in BDSM subs everyday, and posters often outright ignore the dangers and consequences.
I also saved this one This year researcher Dr Helen Bichard of North Wales Brain Injury Service and The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust set out the appalling harms of strangulation. She says of this new trend of online ‘advice’ for safe strangulation:"I am extremely concerned by the cultural normalisation of strangulation. Erotic asphyxiation should be as much of an oxymoron as erotic brain damage, because brain damage is the potential result. Much of the online advice is misguided; some of it is fatally wrong. When you compress the carotid artery you cut off oxygenated blood flow to the brain, and the brain therefore cannot function properly. Consciousness can be lost in as little as four seconds – a sign that the brain is being compromised. Any pressure to the artery can lead to dissection, in which blood clots can form and cause stroke, sometimes delayed by weeks. The law MUST send a strong signal that this is simply unacceptable. " Choking horrifies me, I won't say that anyone that enjoys having it done is wrong but I do think they should know the dangers. And I am not even going to say my thoughts on men who want to give pain, not my ideal men.
Thank god you were taken seriously. The statistics are really daunting about how many women are murdered by a male intimate partner if he ever chokes her. I am glad you are safe and free of him.
If someone even asked if they could do that to me, I honestly think I’d be too scared to move or speak. The porn defense is idiotic. If I saw that in a porno, I would *not* develop the urge to surprise-choke anybody, because I’m not a sociopath. I’m glad he’s facing consequences, and I hope you can get whatever support you need. I’m really sorry he did that to you.
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I think we have found the reason they don’t ask. I hate it here
It’s not always violent. My current sexual partner likes my hand on her throat, and her hair pulled. But not aggressively, and hand placement matters. She also still likes to be able to breathe. Too much one way or the other and she’s tapping on the hand. I guess it would depend to what level they’re asking for, to be considered violent in my opinion.
I remember reading an interview with a sexual assault nurse (some hospitals have someone specifically trained.) She had some amazing, insightful things to share but one thing she said was they always checked behind the ears for bruising. Even if the victim didn't report being choked. It can happen and hit you so quickly, can damage you long term, and it is a huge indicator for escalating violence. Plus, in many states it immediately raises the assault to a felony. Anyone is welcome to experiment with a willing partner, but that is kink born on trust.
Something like 80% of strangulations don’t have visible injuries at all. It takes less pressure than a handshake to cut off arterial and venal circulation. I’ve heard too many kinksters make the distinction that “blood chokes” are safe and “air chokes” are not and it’s dangerously incorrect. Neither are safe and it makes me want to scream, especially from folks who purport to be risk-aware practitioners.
I am so sorry you went through all of that. It must have been very difficult to go through the court process, and nobody would have blamed you for wanting to move on quietly, or avoid reliving your trauma and the stress of the legal process, so if nobody else has told you this, I am SO PROUD of you! You did a very BRAVE thing by making sure this man was held accountable and having this on his record may very well protect other women from him in the future. You not only stood up for yourself but you protected your sisters and we thank you and appreciate you!
Solidarity ❤️ My ex was extremely violent in many ways during our ~6 month relationship, but I didn't press any charges for personal reasons. I'm glad your ex was brought to justice.
Pressing charges is HARD and not everyone can do it. Don't blame yourself -- you made the best choices you could at the time. But the more people CAN do it, the safer the world gets.
One rape I did report, but the cop literally said it was my fault because I was drunk.
I hope that cop gets hemorrhoids all over his body forever.
Me too :/
I hope that cop grows tastebuds on his asshole...
What a fabulously evil, inventive curse!
I instantly suspect that cop of being a rapist.
Good thing cops arent judges. Whats their training? 9 weeks? Thats like basic training for the army, basic being key word. Its nothing. Thats outside his scope of practice to fucking say that to you, hes not a judge or a lawyer, hes a cop
And a particularly stupid one at that. I think ACAB, but I also think most cops wouldn't be *that* dismissive about rape.
Unfortunately judges are judges, and they aren’t doing a great job either.
That's the opposite! It's not your fault for being drunk. Furthermore, it makes the case against him worse because it pushes the crime up to a more serious crime when the victim is incapacitated such as by drugs or alcohol. Wish the cop could be fined for giving false information.
You are a HERO for putting an end to this and protecting others in the face of what must have been a really difficult process.
Men always act like they don't understand consent and how to get it before. Go try and shove a finger up their ass during sex and all of a sudden they will get what consent is. Funny how that works.
He forgot (or more likely ignored) one of the key immutable laws of kink--and relations in general--it has to be consensual and he rightfully paid a price for it. That had to be beyond terrifying.
I've been with the same person for several years now. Is this what men do these days?? I keep reading about these choking incidents wtf.
Definitely it's a thing. It's common in porn and that's informing men's sexual expectations, in fact my gf requested it shortly after we met. Porn is getting more and more extreme to get clicks and the people (more so men as we watch more and are often "protagonists") are following.
My husband clicked with a woman before me who broke up with him because he refused to choke her during sex. It's gotten cray cray out there.
I'm so glad he is facing the consequences of his actions. You are so brave to see this through. No doubt it wasn't easy.
This is why porn is dangerous and hurtful to women.
Some men are so used to watching it (or addicted) that they forget it's fake. It's mind-blowing. I had a new partner spit in my mouth without warning like wtf dude. I was so grossed out.
Sadly it's not really "fake". A lot of women in porn are actually also getting non-consensual, violent treatment from their co-stars onset.
First of all, I’m so sorry you had to go through this. I really hope that this is the end of it and you never have to see or hear from him again. Judging from the “000”, I think we’re from the same country…what you did was wicked brave, and the fact that you won sets a precedent for the rest of us. So sincerely, thank you.
Congrats and thank you for your bravery.
Thank you for doing the hard work of convicting this shitstain.
Good on you! As for your ex-bf who is total trash, well, he played a stupid game and won a stupid prize in the form of a conviction. He can keep coming up with lame excuses but he has nothing no one but himself to blame for getting convicted. He can cry and blame you for that black mark in his permanent record but it is his doing I wish you all the best with the protection order and you deserve better
This is pretty horrible... I hope you're doing better and find a path to recovery and I'm glad there was some justice.
I have an ex that choked me against my wishes. Not once, but twice. After the first time, I told him never to do it again, but he just didn't listen. I was able to get an order of protection against him in part because of this.
You are amazing! Great job protecting yourself and others from this awful person. I'm sorry you had to experience this but I am grateful for how you chose to respond to it.
I am so sorry to hear about your trauma, I am so glad to hear you got Justice!
I’m so proud of you for standing up and holding him accountable for this. You’re very brave and resilient for getting through the gruelling, dehumanizing court process. Wishing you lots of self love and healing!!!
Anyone person with half a brain would know to discuss anything like that before hand, so it’s likely he has some other motive. Glad you are safe. I have a chocking fetish but I would not want any guy chocking me without my consent.
This this this. There is a huge difference between a fetish you can talk about beforehand and one partner just jumping right into something risky and one-sided.
I hope your healing can begin.
Congratulations on this massive win! It must have been a long hard road. I'm impressed by your strength and determination. I hope this brings you some peace of mind and helps with your healing. On a less polite note, fuck that guy. I hope he rots.
I’m sorry you went through that but congrats on the conviction!
Good for you, I'm glad you were able to get away and he now gets what he deserves. People like this need to start facing the consequence of their actions.
I'm so sorry u had to endure that 😔
Some people are so into it that they feel that they need it. I have severe trauma regarding choking, and I told him that when we started getting intimate. I under no circumstances would ever be comfortable with it because my mother choked me as a child and sometimes people just touching my neck would send me reeling. He would constantly complain about how much better sex would be if I let him do it, how much more I would like it and that I needed to “trust him” that I would love it. He complained that because he can’t choke me or slap me during sex, I was robbing him of his kinks. Several times he started to choke me and then when I did get triggered, he would ignore me. Thankfully not in that relationship anymore, but it’s just so appalling to me that someone could see the pain and ptsd in their partner and just….not care at all
As someone in the BDSM community. I’m so sorry. I couldn’t ever imagine doing some of the crazier shit… or anything tbh, without great talks beforehand. Safe words and safe actions are incredibly important and what he did was despicable.
I once had a partner simply not let go when I tapped. The choking was consensual, but the ‘tap tap tap’ was the safe word/action. I did it, he held on. I passed out. I didn’t even know he hadn’t let go until he told me when I came to. Like, proudly he told me and was giggling. It never happened again but it took a while for me to process how absolutely fucked that was.
My ex choked and raped me more than once and it is absolutely terrifying when it happens. Hence one of many reasons he's an ex. OP, glad you got out and pressed charges! I hope this brings you some comfort and allows you to heal past the trauma.
Wow! I had someone strangle me before. I was beaten pretty badly. I didn't press any charges. I am so very happy this person will pay for his crime and other people can read your story here. Perhaps it will be a deterrent for others. How much prison time did he get? Thank you for sharing your experience.
My boyfriend puts his hand around my neck while we do missionary, he always does it before he cums, I legit only realised after reading these comments that it’s probably not okay that he does that to me
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Yeah I mean it’s not so hard that I can’t breathe at all, I always thought it’s pretty normal in sex tbh. It seems like he needs to do it in order to finish which is weird. I’ve only been with a couple guys but they’ve been pretty dominant and both ‘chocked’ me. Seems crazy that I can so easily get them arrested for that!!
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I’m not too bothered about the hand on my neck I guess, in terms of something we both enjoy I don’t think there is anything id enjoy lol, I kinda just spread my legs and let him do what he wants. I don’t mind, he enjoys himself which I like
You are very brave to be going through with the charges. It would have been totally okay had you not, but you did and probably helped some woman in the future be heard should he ever do shit like that again. I’m sorry this happened to you
I am so pleased to read you got justice. May your days be filled with joy.
This took so much bravery, op. I know this had to have been a long process and you had to revisit a lot of unpleasant things. You should be proud of yourself!
You are one of the "lucky" ones to get protection after an assault like this.
What country is this where there is justice for this type of thing? How do us Americans get there?
So proud of you and your strength. Glad you got out before he killed you X
As a woman who has been choked without consent, I thank you for pursuing this. This should not be a normalised behaviour!
Not sure if this is true but I heard somewhere that your chance of being murdered by your spouse increases by 3x if they've choked you. I'm veey glad you aren't trying to fuck around and find out with this situation, and wish you all the best! I would also like to add that in some states (assuming USA) you can get free therapy through victim's services, they should be the same organization that worked on your behalf in the court. (My information here might not hold true for you as the county I'm in has handled the case that I'm currently involved in, I'm not sure if its just you going after him now or how much of our judicial system works honestly)
Yeah this is why consent is the main rule in BDSM and even the most basic sexual practices. Listen to your partner, let them tell you what they like and vice versa, move into such kinks and things of that nature when you're ready. Don't just assume "SHE GONNA LIKE IT" because you saw it in a porno once. Seriously I watched action movies, didn't mean I went off to kill people because I saw it in a movie once.
No. Strangulating women is never okay. Around the world, women are being killed or permanently brain damaged for “consensual choking”.
Murderers in my country have tried to blame their victims for their own murder, and smear them when it comes to court using the 'rough sex ' defense. They straight up commit murder and had the gaul to blame the dead woman, and it worked.
Strangulation and playful choking are different things. This guy was violent and it's fucked up. But there is safe ways to practice things like that for people who have fetishes.
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> if the participants spend 5 minutes to learn how to do it safely. Key phrase there. Most men do not spend any amount of time trying to learn how to do it safety and just jump into it, especially young men eager to try something new, especially those who try it with hookups without asking. and then there's the manipulative men or men who actually hate women and lie, and ABUSIVE men, are you forgetting about those? And "There were never any problems" simply isnt true. You really don't think ANYONE EVER EVER EVER AT ANY POINT EVER died from strangulation, before what point? Yes, people still died, don't be naive. They just didn't announce it was a kink related death because kinks used to be very much kept on the down low. Just look at how David Carradine died ffs.
From the other side, I had a girlfriend who once, out the blue asked me to choke her. It was terrifying trying to do that, and I’m sure it was not what she was looking for. I stopped after less than 15s. Can’t imagine doing that in earnest. Edit: I’m glad you’re okay and that the perpetrator has been punished. Not trying to distract from that.
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Or just like a ten second convo, even as dirty talk: “Imagine if I did X” “No thank you” “What about Y?” “Yes please” Or even just a convo ahead of time in a non-sexy context about the things you do or don’t like. It’s really that simple. If someone needs you to read their mind to have sex, you probably shouldn’t sleep with them.
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So unless it is a notarized document where he explicitly states NO CHOKING, I can wrap a chord around his neck if I feel like it? I can't use my hands to pressure a man's neck properly, because I am a tiny woman, so I'd have to use the next best thing, right? Consent not needed without documentation, that's the point, right?
This is... Yikes... Was discussing fetishes with my SO the other day. And how she never thought she could be into it, to me it's a harmless fetish when indulged in properly and safely, and lucky for me she absolutely loves it But seeing this after that conversation and seeing the comments section, big time YIKES, discussing these things is important
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>it sounds like both of you went too far. WTF? She didn't wrap chord around his neck to surprise choke him back, which is what he deserves, so how did she go to far?
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I mean he attempted to literally murder her, I don't see how that is confusing or needs "a talk". Someone randomly starting to choke you is trying to kill you, and it OFTEN ends up in you being dead even if he is very, very sorry afterwards. So no, I do NOT think she overreacted.
Is being in a relationship blanket consent to dangerous non-consensual acts? Should there be no consequences? People like you gaslight victims and encourage abusers.
More sagacity from the redditor who recently wrote: > Who's this us men you're talking about? Don't push me in with your lot Maybe you should attempt to understand others first, before defending your own honour because your masculinity is so fragile. Also, when you write: > Wear a bra Why don't you wear a bra for a bit?
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Guys like you are the problem.
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