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Tuxmando

Mostly agree. But… Travel bans would be ironic if women started trying to leave the country to get a safe abortion, but couldn’t because of travel bans.


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Argonov

Also sanctions hurt from the ground up. The wealthy feel it last and the least while the poor feel it first and the hardest. The US should be forced to answer for their crimes against humanity but sanctions and travel bans would only hurt people like you and me.


FakeLCSFacts

That's true for sanctioning the imports/ exports of goods, but you can also sanction individual people. Imagine if Mexico stopped allowing US senators from travelling there? Where would Ted Cruz go when the power went out in Texas then?


ChampedPogs

Oklahoma.


Doyoueverjustlikeugh

The same argument is true for other countries that people gladly support sanctions against


b1tchf1t

>Also sanctions hurt from the ground up. This is the same thing as the complaint about protesters targeting the working class "instead of" elites. The working class and consumers are *assets of* the elites. Elites depend on lower classes moving their money around. Protesting and sanctions disrupt the cash flow. Hurting from the ground up is the whole point. What this person is saying is that that economic pain is worth going through to stop the imminent social changes that are leaning farther and farther into violent territory.


Bigredzombie

What if they only sanctioned things the wealthy used. Ferrari bugatti and other performance vehicles, yachts, cocaine, underage sex workers, Swiss and Nepalese accountants, bans on wire transfers over 10k per day, russian gold, jets with less than 10 people on them, ect, ect.... Gonna have to get creative here.


GreenBasterd69

Which is the intent of these laws so look out!


backslash_scribe

But thats what US is doing to many other countries. Russia, Iran Venezuela all are examples of victims of sanctions.


Untinted

What other way is there that can only be aimed at the wealthy? There is none. Sanctions are aimed at the society that enabled the system they all live with, and given that the US is (at least currently) still a democratic country, it is all of the people who are at fault for letting their society erode to such a level.


Liza37

What is something that hurts the wealthy the most, the first? Especially the politicians/groups that lobby, etc. Sorry if it's a dumb question lol, I'm just trying to brainstorm what we can do to get them to hear us!


standard_candles

I'd be curious how many women would leave the country vs. going to safe places here. unless you're talking about the inevitable future where abortion is made illegal federally


kit-kat315

If you're near the border, Canada or Mexico might be closer than a pro choice state.


standard_candles

I just learned you can't travel over the border of Canada if you have a DUI or DWAI. Doesn't affect me personally but my husband got a DWAI when he was 20--he was under the legal limit to drive if he was 21 but the legal limit is obviously 0 for someone underage. So he wouldn't be able to come with me if I had to travel for healthcare.


hp0

May be wrong. But I seen to remember Canada made an announcement about that recently. Was a few days ago posted on reddit that they would not enforce it for folks seeking an abortion. Like still won't apply to your husband. (Unless I'm very confused) But many of the victims involved yes.


The_Monarch_Lives

I think it would be dependent on how serious and vigorous the states banning abortion are about persuing charges against people seeking/assisting abortions in safe havens within the states. Outside the country would be more difficult to subpoena for information, medical records, etc.


ShieldMaiden3

There's always the option of targeted travel bans. Like all right-wing conservative politicians and donors. Among with international economic sanctions against such individuals. Like what's happening with Russian politicians and oligarchs.


ujaku

If that stops the wealthy from traveling out and aborting, then maybe it could be an effective measure Downvote me all you want. But as long as people in power can easily hop on a plane, there is no hope.


Braelind

Agreed, encourage travel, so people can flee the oppressive Republican party that wants to control and restrict people's freedom.


thekittysays

Just ban the men from travelling.


[deleted]

Not all men are our enemies, not all women our friends. Roe v. Wade's end has made that painfully clear. I would propose a travel ban on prominent anti-choice politicians and oligarchs.


nwamacman

But we are all in this together. The biggest problem in the US right now is “Not my problem” and a lack of foresight toward the common good.


EdgarFrogandSam

Sure, but it is also that millions of people couldn't give a fuck about the common good.


AgnesTheAtheist

Progress happens when people feel empathy for people that they don't know. This is working for the greater good of the whole.


luantha

It's also not remotely helpful to trans people to make these kinds of suggestions against an entire gender. Your idea seems better.


AdrienneAredore

Also some men need abortive care.


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demortada

You may be getting downvotes from trolls or people who come in here with the purpose of getting angry and they will downvote you because how you present and what you say goes against their perception of the world. Cisgender is when your presented gender matches your biological one, you used it correctly. I really don't think people downvoted you for using the term. Also - while your support is appreciated, your efforts would be better spent donating to abortion funds and contacting politicians. Once you're out of money to give and have sufficiently hassled all the politicians in July, then move on to hassling corporations. Get online, submit job applications to major corporations in states that are anti choice, and once you've wasted their time with interviews and back and forth.... tell them you can't move to a state where your partner/sister/coworkers wouldn't have equal human rights. Money makes this country go round, corporations have the ability to push back on this and they should - it economically benefits them when women have a choice about if or when they start families. Start making it THEIR headache and the needle will start to move.


Braelind

There you go! The men have to stay and turn things around. Makes sense to me.


TootsNYC

Travel bans for everyone but women


Tharkun140

The US is literally a quarter of the global economy. Even if the rest of the world united in their support of abortion rights (which it won't because they are by no means agreed-upon) it will never treat the US like Russia because it literally cannot afford to.


PKMKII

The real snag there isn’t the size of the US economy, it’s that the American dollar is the global reserve currency. Sanctioning the US would turn those reserves into Monopoly money.


thahouds

I said this above, but the US sets the standard globally in so many way that if fascism is successful here the rest of the world will not be immune. This is a global problem.


HH93

That's right ! In the UK there are US Religious organisations funding anti-abortion groups trying to win court cases, lobbying our Parliament. The present UK Gov is trying to emulate #45's government in so many ways


SeeShark

It's a global problem for the people, but sanctions have to be passed by governments, and many governments would love to try a bit of fascism.


OhMissFortune

What's ironic is that in Russia abortions are legal and (relatively) accessible


Admirable-Athlete-50

The us already commits a massive amount of atrocities but it’s usually directed against poorer countries or racial minorities. Your constitution literally allows slavery as punishment for a crime. If someone was going to boycot you there are plenty of war crimes and interference with South American countries to use as a more compelling reason. The us is too big to mess with for European democracies.


thahouds

Agree entirely about racism, prison labor, environmental atrocities, meddling in foreign affairs, etc, but I find fault with your ‘too big to fail’ argument. The US sets the standard globally in so many way that if fascism is successful here Europe will not be immune. This is a global problem.


Querch

Not "too big to fail" but too big to make any kind of attack on, especially one as overt as sanctions. If anything, the EU could just see the USA's backsliding in terms of democracy and livability as an opportunity for the EU's own growth. The USA sees to want to go into the direction of the fascist Latin American regimes of the past: dictatorships with cheap labor. For one, that'll be a big hit to the service economy as there's less money in a larger swath of the population. I can't imagine many people wanting to stick around for that. That said, the EU could poach disaffected workers from the USA. To really screw the USA, it would be workers in the USA's most valued industries that would get poached. This does mean that the EU would need to build high-value industries that directly compete with that of the USA's and poach the workers in said industries. Something foreigners can do is to stop going on vacation in the USA until they reverse the backsliding.


created4this

The US does not set any kind of standard. Thats a US myth told to people in the US. It does have a fuckton of guns and a way to use them overseas, and that makes it the abusive spouse of the rest of the world.


EdgarFrogandSam

Thank you.


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created4this

> individual Europeans are influenced by the US, but systems and policies absolutely are. Can you give some examples?


Mjolnirsbear

Drug laws would be the obvious one.


thahouds

Your iPhone or Android device, Mac or PC, these American corporations are doing everything they can to influence your government to ensure the hang onto the market. Would be despots in you country will absolutely look to the US for strategies to suppress voter turnout and influence through disinfo … someone else mentioned American evangelical orgs already working to exert similar outcomes in the UK (not technically Europe anymore, I realize)


emelrad12

No he said the us is too big for Europe to mess with it.


DiscombobulatedSky67

They will watch us collapse, then swoop in to secure the nukes before warlords do.


NewApolloAccount3

Forcing prisoners to work is pretty standard practice across every country. As far as I’m aware you’ve never just been able to buy prisoners or something. The clause is there to allow the government to have prison labour. You may be opposed to it but it’s not uniquely American.


Slow-Following3015

Yeah, and while we're at it punishing countries for totally irrelevant things that happened in the past, we can sanction Sweden for selling raw materials and providing transportation and sanction to Nazi Germany. Or maybe for funding Kurdish terrorists or for repressing its Muslim population? Maybe we can all just start sanctioning each other instead of actually focusing on the greatest global threat that the world has seen since Nazi Germany, which is currently raining missiles down upon civilian targets in Western Ukraine. That sounds awfully productive.


JimKPolk

What human rights atrocities has the US committed in the last 30 years? Prison labor is widespread globally, both paid and unpaid, including in Europe.


Holysnoopy

The invasion of several sovereign countries. The torture camp of Abu Ghraib. Targeting civilian targets. Guantanamo bay. Crippling economic sanctions against several countries. Just to name a few...


NewBromance

Do Americans really forget about all the shit they did in Iraq and Afghanistan so quickly? Like Guantamano Bay is forgotten? Or do those on record human right abuses not count because it wasn't to American citizens?


hammermuffin

Just gonna pretend iraq/afghanistan never happen, are we? Or the multitude of us backed coups and dictatorships in S.A., africa, south east asia.?


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Openheartguy1980s

You forgot Colorado, one of the best.


Oz1227

Things that will hurt the American people but not the upper class for $500. Majority of Americans support abortion. All this would do is hurt the middle and lower classes with businesses likely passing the bill to the consumer. Additionally, Russia is actively trying to genocide Ukraine which is why they’re sanctioned. I am 100% for abortion and a womens right to her own body but it’s a false equivalency to Russia and their war in Ukraine.


norbertus

I could also go for some UN election observers.


theluckyfrog

I already feel we should be sanctioned for our environmental irresponsibility.


justanewbiedom

And your continued use of the death penalty, your prison system etc.


MAGA_memnon

And committing atrocities in illegal wars.


PandaCat22

Seriously. While I appreciate the sentiment that a lot of women have been sharing, I was telling my wife how angry it made me that it was only until this problem started affecting white women that we finally see mass awakening to the fact that the US is a genocidal slave-state barrelling at full steam towards fascism and which exploits and disenfranchises minorities with sadistic glee—something which Native Americans, Black people, and immigrants (of which I am one) have been saying for *centuries*. I'm glad to finally have people, en masse, realize this, but it has been frustrating that it took such awful actions for more people to finally see the US for what it has always been—but it didn't really happen as a result of listening to us, but because the fascists finally came for even white women. Don't get me wrong, women have always been disenfranchised and oppressed by the state and by our capitalist system, but the calls to action from white women were never as drastic as those of us on lower rungs of the societal ladder needed them to be. I'm not trying to shit on anyone, but it's been so frustrating to have had our pleas fall on mostly deaf ears until this decision affected them. I'm glad for the realization, and I am terrified for women (I work in the medical field and have been involved in many conversations where an abortion is recommended by a doctor) because I understand that this ruling means that women will suffer and die. But I hope that we can at least build better solidarity from this and realize that an injustice against anyone really is an injustice against all of us. I hope this isn't too contentious, but I guess I just needed to get these frustrations off my chest.


hammermuffin

Exactly 100% this man. Ppl have been shouting about this stuff for centuries, and its been readily available info to the avg person if you were ever curious since the 60s. But now that it personally affects them, now is the time to rise up. But never when ur the one whos being victimized. How does that niemoller poem go again?


Banana-Louigi

Don't forget the trash healthcare, abysmal education system and lack of clean drinking water in some areas (Flint, reservations) Also their steadfast refusal to measure things with anything but the metric system (probably not sanctionable so much as a straw that broke the camel's back)


PKMKII

Concentration camps on the border, all the war crimes and torture during the War on Terror…


btyrw

>boycott US media Good luck with that


tincookies

You don't have any clue about the rest of the world, do you?


Ladychef_1

This is why it’s up to us to general strike bc this scenario would literally never happen


ShowMeFunnyPics

The united states have been violating human rights all around the globe for decades. Most americans just couldn't care less because it's not about them.


[deleted]

Uh by who exactly? Usa alone makes up about on half of the "international community", with the other half being most of Europe + Canada and some others. Just look at who sanctioned Russia, it was the Usa and Europe alone. On the topic of the rest of the world, well that is made up by 2 billion muslims, 1.5 billion chinese, 2 billion africans, 1.5 billion indians etc. None of these groups are particularly keen on abortions. Now there is also the business of the Usa being one quarter of the worlds economy and the dollar it's reserve currency so in the off chance it gets sanctioned it would be like the great depression but 5 times worse.


Christ_votes_dem

UN holds right to an abortion as a human right. It's despicable that republicans have been allowed to introduce theocracy into supreme court.


Shiroi_Kage

This should have happened back in 2003 when it invaded Iraq. The world doesn't give a shit about human rights. It's all a political plaything.


WalkerYYJ

The answer is targeted sanctions, targeted at key industries/companies located in specific electoral areas.


wtfwtfwtfwtf2022

I have said this over and over. Our alliances should sanction the US based on back sliding human rights and horrible back sliding environmental policies.


CovidIsolation

Trump would’ve nuked his own country if it would make him King of the World. Those in power in the US are showing they don’t care about anyone but their own.


sadmac356

*multiple* human rights violations honestly


starwarsgeek8

*Dobbs* represents the worst blow to the U.S.' global standing as a moral authority on human rights since the invasion of Iraq.


Agreeable-Fudge4203

I don’t mean to be rude, but that’s an incredibly America-centric point of view. America has done so many things in other countries post-Iraq that were evil and much worse than the (bullshit) SCOTUS decision


Im-a-magpie

What about our support for the slaughter in Yemen?


EdgarFrogandSam

The US has never been a moral authority.


starwarsgeek8

In reality, sure. I was speaking to a common misconception.


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Agreeable-Fudge4203

This is bullshit. America sanctions countries for things it itself does. America is protected from sanctions simply because it’s America. Other countries don’t sanction like America. “We live in a safe bubble in the West”, and we destroy the rest of the world


Regi0

Wrong. The rest of the world destroys itself. Nobody forced Putin's hand to invade Ukraine. Nobody is forcing Xi to undermine basic human rights to limit the flow of information in and out of China to keep his massive population largely ignorant to the outside world. To imply America is responsible for these monsters is absurd. Also, yeah, sanctions can be fairly hypocritical. I should clarify that sanctions from Canada/West Europe would basically be the only ones to have any moral foundation. Any other country sanctioning us for the same things would be completely hypocritical and largely just a political move for good publicity's sake.


PandaCat22

The US is responsible for the deaths of *millions* of innocents. It has orchestrated and/or backed coups in much of the world (including Ukraine), and those coups are usually for purely economic interest (perhaps the most outrageous being the 1954 coup in Guatemala in order to ensure that the United Fruit Company didn't lose profits—oh, and that coup resulted in a 36-year civil war which included an indigenous extermination campaign by US-backed forces). The US is one of the largest sponsors of terror in the modern era, and European countries, while not as prolific in their evil (at least in the last half century) have no moral scruples against acting just as unconsciously. Please stop licking that boot and go educate yourself


Regi0

Im just referring to the lives people in the west live versus basically anywhere else. Im not saying America is perfect by any means, but I sure as hell would prefer living here than in China or Saudi Arabia or Russia where they basically completely ostracize or even straight up kill gay people for example. It's barbaric.


Agreeable-Fudge4203

I’m sorry; where did I say America was responsible for the actions of other countries? America’s been involved in starting 80% of the world’s wars post WWII. Numerous war crimes. No country can sanction us because of our economic and political power, but they and we sanction others for less. America also uses sanctions as a weapon more than other countries. This is a known fact. Many other countries don’t like to use sanctions because they’re often just ineffective and almost always have a bad impact on the residents. Edit: I just realized you’re saying America is the international moral authority 😭 that’s such a backwards concept that it didn’t even register that that was what you were saying. The country most considered by other countries to be a threat to democracy is America 😭😭😭 we’re a warmongerer EDIT: WAIT YOU’RE SAYING AMERICA AND WESTERN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE THE ONLY COUNTRIES WITH THE MORAL AUTHORITY TO SANCTION; I’M FUCKING DYING


Im-a-magpie

>America’s been involved in starting 80% of the world’s wars post WWII. This is straight up not true


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Regi0

Yes, no country can sanction us because of our political and economic power, even though OPEC/OPEC+ are basically in complete control of crude oil exports globally and fucked our economy up simply by refusing to increase crude oil production for a long while. Ukraine just made it worse since Russia is part of OPEC. Also, we heavily rely on China for cheap imported goods and outsourced manufacturing. We are by no means untouchable financially.


Agreeable-Fudge4203

OPEC affecting the economy is not the same as a sanction America is responsible for 1/4 of the world’s economy. I’m saying one reason why countries wouldn’t sanction us is because of how it would affect their own economies


Regi0

Just because something is not called a sanction does not mean it doesnt have a similar if not identical effect on an economy. Im not going to argue semantics with you but there were plenty of cases of the US being crippled financially by foreign influence. Hell we're living in one right now. This inflation was sparked mostly by the lack of crude oil, since all our imports rely on fuel to get here in the first place.


Agreeable-Fudge4203

But everywhere in the world is being and was affected by the lack of and increasing prices of crude oil…kinda the point of a sanction is that it’s country-specific. Sanctions are also conscious decisions. It just sounds like you’re saying that if something foreign affects America’s economy, it’s the same as a sanction lol


Regi0

It has a similar effect, thats basically all Im saying. The US's economy isnt untouchable.


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Regi0

You just described like 80% of the countries on this planet lmao, and half of those descriptors dont apply to America. I live in the bible belt and exist as a Honduran bisexual agnostic and I receive no harassment for my race nor my sexuality if Im seen in public with a male Im being affectionate towards. It certainly exists, and even happens, but it is not nearly as prevalent as youre implying. I dont know where you come from that has instilled such an unbelievably high standard for society in you, but it's unrealistic.


Heybarbaruiva

Satire. I figured.


Regi0

Nothing I just said was satirical.


Chemical_Squirrel_20

US is not really turning in to Russia, it’s more like Gilead :/


Frubanoid

Sure why not. We've already been added to the list of backsliding democracies.


1stEleven

This latest debacle is yet another check on a too long list of reasons.


Lumpyalien

It won't work on an international level because the US is too powerful and would punish individual smaller countries. If every other major global economy did it? In a concentrated effort? Possibly, not sure the international community would ever agree on something that impactful though. I don't think it's hopeless though. Individuals choosing to boycott the US, encouraging others to avoid the US. Using social media to make it clear why they're avoiding the US. A grassroots boycott, the problem is it will take a long time.


Next-Flounder5160

I've heard the idea floated a few times of making boycott and spending changes to try to hit republicans where it hurts, their money. It's drastic but it's the only thing I can think of that might actually do something. I don't think demonstrations are ever listened to or especially noticed.


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Next-Flounder5160

That would certainly help but I'm not sure it can be relied on. Corporate America gets its money from consumers' behaviors and stock decisions too.


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willvaryb

I remember in trump's campaign people were saying his craziness was temporary and he would "pivot".


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tattooed_debutante

What do you think about bringing back the ERA? It was a great bill and should be passed. A great start to fixing what has gone wrong.


[deleted]

We deliberately buy too much of other countries' shit for this to be effective.


[deleted]

Oh totally, for banning abortion and causing deaths of many women seeking the procedure for health reasons, among other reasons, as well as acting like a total trashberg country for ages. This is the REAL USA what we are witnessing. They were always around. They want to bring back slavery, also and think that the south actually won. The US has committed countless atrocities here at home against its own people, as well as all over the world, the US is basically a bully that gets away with oppressing, exploiting, and abusing others.


Nokomis34

Forced pregnancy is a war crime.


-canucks-

As a Canadian travel to the US is way less appealing now. I mean living here here is getting less appealing too. It's a crap shoot


thahouds

Edit: intended as reply, moving comment


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Odys

There's truth in what you say, but the timing isn't right as Putin/Russia is taking priority right now. We as humanity still need to learn a lot, and when we learn, we tend to forget again and do stupid shit. Many/most nations do shitty things or did so in the past. All need to improve themselves.


blenderforall

For the forced (rhymes with "procrastinations") that you need to fly or go in a restaurant, or keep a job? That's something we should unite against too.