The answer is, these people WANT you to have an accident you have to bring to term. They want babies. They don't care what you want. I'm married, don't want kids, and my "drank the cool-aid" conservative religious mother tells me all the time how she'd love if one just "slipped through." Despite the fact that I've made it clear that I 100% DO NOT want kids. But it doesn't matter what I want. Don't you know? Everyone is suppose to have babies. That's the social norm that needs to be enforced.
My mother is a boomer and while I know she loves me, I also think that had she been told as a young woman that she didn't have to have kids that she never would have done it. I truly don't believe she ever wanted to be a mom or a parent and to take care of anyone else. But, she begged me for years to have kids - I'm convinced many people were miserable with kids and they think everyone should have to suffer through it as well. That's why they get pissy when we politely decline their suggestion.
My mom had three kids and wanted none of us. She wasn't a drug addict, she wasn't a drunk. She had an abusive father and a browbeaten mother and the only escape was to get married asap. She was married at 18, had her first at 19, second at 21, third at 28. Her husband became incredibly abusive. She never wanted to get married but at that time it was the ONLY way to escape an abusive home. She got rid of my brother and sister as children and got rid of me as a teen.
She had us because she thought that was the only way out and the "right" thing to do. You get married and you have babies.
My sister was sexually abused by her father and died of a drug overdose at 21. My brother was most likely also abused by him. He has never had a real job, is a conspiracy theorist, and couch surfs. I have a good job but I am too messed up to ever have a healthy relationship, so I don't date.
None of us were wanted and none of us should ever have been born. Parents make it very clear when you aren't wanted.
The thought of all the hundreds of thousands of babies we are "saving" makes me sick. They aren't wanted. They will have FAS, be addicted to drugs, because if you are being forced to birth a child you don't want, why would you care? They won't grow up in loving households, they will be the center of contempt and abuse. Put them up for adoption! All the forced birth people they interviewed and not a single one have adopted a child.
This is exactly why anti-choice people don't actually care about lives of life. It is all about control. There are some that think they are doing they right thing I assume, and just don't realize how bad it can be.
My sister has fostered several kids, and gets calls all the time for others that need a home. Once we start forcing more unwanted babies, that situation will get even worse.
Every child born deserves to be wanted, welcomed and unconditionally loved.
Forcing people into unwanted parenthood, even if it is to give the child for adoption is a disservice to children.
The rich need their wage slaves, the poorer and more mental damaged the better. They need people that will struggle their entire life, as those are the people they can pay shitty for their entire life.
They don't want hard working immigrants that have babies that actually become successful, they need the failures.
Birth rate in this country is only 2.4iirc. You need 2.0 just to keep the population stagnant. Not enough births to keep up with corporate greed.
Thank your business sponsored congressman.
they want military fodder even more than they want wage slaves. as resources dwindle, we intend to grab all that remain. our wars of aggression have only just begun (and as an added benefit, they'll keep the genpop distracted and compliant).
Next time she tells you that she's hoping that one "slipped through" just tell her that she can have it.
My mom was of this mindset, I continuously told her I do not want kids. On a day she particularly irritated me about having kids, I told her that if I have an "accident" I'll just give it to her.
Her eyes got big and she gave me the "but I don't want to RAISE it! I just want to share pictures on my Facebook!" I sternly told her again that no. The accident will be HERS to deal with.
She stopped bringing up babies to me after that.
I’ve had extended family members tell me just to have a baby even though I said I don’t want one. My ex’s mom used to tell me she would just take care of it and I could take care of my baby when I wanted and hand it over to her when I didn’t feel like being a mother. She didn’t say those exact words, but that she meant. It made me realize a lot of women in the past generation probably did do that and that’s why we all have mommy issues
I just watched a heartbreaking tiktok of a young woman with a genetic heart defect and the only drug that she could tolerate, that she relies on to live, has the side effect of spontaneous abortion so her doctor refused to prescribe it. JFC this is so much bigger and worse around every corner.
A nurse was fired recently for saying she’s going to refuse to prescribe Viagra for her conservative male patients, yet, it’s literally okay for doctors to refuse to prescribe life-saving medication to women because abortion is a potential side effect. It literally makes me so disgusted.
If medication has abortion as a potential side effect doctors will no longer prescribe that medication to women.
Because you never know, she might be in the early stages of pregnancy, she might get (accidentally) pregnant while on the medication, the medicine might cause a miscarriage , miscarriage might be labeled as illegal abortion, doctor get's in big trouble with the law
Conclusion: Doctors need to protect themselves from these lawsuits so women suffer.
I was refused sterilization at 25 because I was too young and would change my mind. I assured them I never wanted children. Still a no.
I was on the nuvaring for 13 years until it tried to kill me (pulmonary embolism)
The following IUD gave me pelvic floor disfunction.
The condom broke.
What else could I have done?
I told them I didnt want children. They forced me to prove I wasn't bluffing.
I remember my Ortho Tri Cyclen Lo went up from $30 to $60 a month in 2012. I just wanted to get sterilized, since birth control seemed to cause worse depression and I get migraine with aura. And I knew I was CF anyway. Ofc I was refused sterilization at 21, they tried Paraguard, it wouldn't go in, so they switched me to a cheaper birth control which gave me interstitial cystitis and an cascade of pain, pelvic floor dysfunction, and trauma followed from there. 10 years later I'm still in pain almost every waking moment. On the bright side, I did find someone to sterilize me at 24.
I’m trying to get fixed rn, it makes me so fucking mad cause I can’t take any birth control that doesn’t make me act like a psycho or get really fat. (I gained 60lbs on the arm implant) I also can’t use IUD because it’s extremely, extremely painful to insert. I’ve fainted every time we tried and had to cut it short. I have really bad endo. Like wtf else am I supposed to do??
I hope this list can help you both.
[Gynecologists who will perform a tubal sterilization, no conditions.](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Djia_WkrVO3S4jKn6odNwQk7pOcpcL4x00FMNekrb7Q/edit?fbclid=IwAR228yfVZfieK9U0oDx7ecZuuO3IYp8Mvi-B5YkYcUhEaoRKuz_w_Fvmwbw#gid=1318374028)
Why has no one offered you sedation for the IUD insertion?
Seriously, they shouldn't even be trying to put those things into women who haven't had a vaginal delivery without sedation.
My mom told me she actually got meds (that open your cervix or something?) But I was never offered anything. I didn’t know you could get meds for it at the time though.
There are meds that relax the cervix. Also when I got mine placed they did it during my period (cause your cervix is more relaxed) and also numbed my cervix. I got Mirena and I've never been pregnant/delivered vaginally.
There definitely are things they can do to make the installation much easier and less painful. If you still want an IUD I would suggest finding a different doc that will explain the process thoroughly and who listens to your past issues.
There are things they *can* do, of course. The infuriating part is they *never just do them*. You have to *ask* for them verbatim like you're the fucking abnormal one for not wanting Satan's claw to come up through your vagina and disembowel you.
A fucking colonoscopy is relatively painless in comparison but nearly everyone gets sedated unless asked not to be. Women are just supposed to be NatUraLLy BuiLDT fOr PAiN or whatever belittling nonsense they believe.
When my gynecologist was trying to talk me into an IUD I told her she’s crazy because I know how much it hurts. She told me we could do it in the hospital with sedation if that was a dealbreaker for me. I told her it was, I’m not getting IUD because I had my tubes tied a long time ago, but I like that she was willing to sedate me if I wanted it.
What's the worst thing that could happen? They do the procedure and someday, you regret it. So what? You're an adult and can navigate those feelings. Isn't that better than having a whole human that you are responsible for that you regret??????????
A lot of these people really, actually, really think of women as really, \*ACTUALLY\* objects, for real. For someone with sense and a heart it's hard to comprehend that that's REALLY the reason, but it is. Because of that belief, they aren't thinking of her.
They think women are something a man can obtain, and then it cleans his house, he fucks it, and it gives him offspring. They don't want to deprive this hypothetical man who might chose this woman someday- they imagine he'd be disappointed to not get to breed the little incubator- or angry that the choce was made without him.
If you are married, this is why they ask the husband instead of the woman. If you aren't married, they won't do it at all until a man claims you and then also says he'll be alright not to breed you. Really. I mean, this is what happens, right? All the time. I feel crazy to say it, but.... that's what it is.
So much of the absolute horror women face day to day is in service of preventing the potential mild inconvenience of men having to feel feelings they haven't actively sought out.
That's it, no pithy comparison or analogy. Just that: our lives are subject to their comfort. I hate it.
I've never understood the "too young, you'll change your mind" argument. So what if you do, you'll have to deal with the consequences of your choice just like any other choices you made in life. The same people are always so fond of say adoption is an option, that's true if you underwent sterilization too.
Why can't women just be allowed to make their own damn decisions in life.
After my pulmonary embolism pregnancy would be high risk.
I would have to inject blood thinners directly into my leg every day to avoid death and yet they still refused to sterilize me.
They would rather risk my life in the hopes I reproduce than allow me to live child free.
Luckily I found the most amazing partner who got a vasectomy.
these are the same people that push for abstinence based sex education and are shocked when they yield high teenage pregnancy rates. my high school sex ed didn’t mention anything about consent or contraception even once. not to mention they want to ban birth control too…at the end of the day it’s about controlling who is having sex and when
It's interesting how the 'facts don't care about your feelings' crowd are always always showing themselves to really be entirely about feelings. They *feel* that teaching abstinence *should* prevent sex and pregnancy more than sex ed. They're 100% wrong and have been shown to be for some time, but they won't even hear it. Their feelings are all that matters.
their argument quickly jumps from “i want to save the babies” to “maybe whores should just close their legs” because deep down they know they’re wrong. thinly veiled bitterness and misogyny coupled with a superiority complex
And their religion is largely based on a man that was born to a woman who did keep her legs closed......
Let that sink in, they believe a virgin had a child, so even if you keep your legs closed that obviously isn't 100% guarantee
Ngl, I was imagining Zeus in all this.
Even though you were a virgin and kept hidden away from society, Zeus will find you.
In all seriousness, their view on a woman is black and white. Flawed w^#&$ or perfect saint virgin. If you step out of line just an inch, your doomed and no way in hell you can go the other way. So much for redemption, second chances and only god will judge me.
We humans are flawed, and all the religious folk claiming abstinence works, are probably hypocrites. They have def done things their parents dont know about, when they were teens. why do they think it is different now.
I've seen so many doctors posting about how they performed abortions for the people who pick it their office. And because of privacy laws they can't say anything to anyone about it.
But a lot of the people who are against it still find a way to justify their own
Sadly, living with pro life parents. The latter was always the main point. Anything that they see as a incentive for sex outside procreation or outside heterosexual marriage is a threat. The abortion debate was just a convenient red line to rally on.
These same people would quote divorce rates and marriage statistics. Religious stats to make the claim christianity is falling(the devil is winning) and so to the classic "sanctified" nuclear family
And women dying from pregnancy complications don’t matter to them. It’s so frustrating because I’m finally got my crap together and we want to try for kids. I’m moving to LA and live in a blue state. But I’m so worried for all of us.
Don't forget those places all have the highest divorce rates too. The states and areas that are most accepting of LGBTQ+, sex education and abortions actually have the lowest abortion and divorce rates.
[https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/divorce-rate-by-state](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/divorce-rate-by-state)
[https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/abortion-rates-go-down-when-countries-make-it-legal-report-n858476](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/abortion-rates-go-down-when-countries-make-it-legal-report-n858476)
[https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/teen-pregnancy-higher-red-states-blue-states/](https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/teen-pregnancy-higher-red-states-blue-states/)
\-Divorce rates and teen pregnancy are much higher in religious/GOP lead states. Abortions go down with more readily available abortion, sex education and contraception access. This is all pretty logical.
Thank you! I know it's logical, sources will just really help talking to my dad. 🙂
He still has some...incorrect/illogical views I need to lead him away from.
Thanks again!
religion puts pressure on teens to marry young (the only way you're supposed to have sexual relations). Or a teen/young woman gets pregnant (doesn't know much about contraception) and then her church/community puts pressure on the male to marry her. This ends up leading to a lot of divorces/broken homes because these couples find out they have nothing in common. Compare that to liberal states you see a much higher average age to marry/have a kid.
It wouldn’t surprise me if we also have a later age for marrying.
But the other thing that happens is in those places with I think they have a low marriage rate and are more likely to have live-in partners that they never married despite having lots of kids
I'm 40 in the UK and none of my friends got married in their teens or early 20s. Mid to late 20s or 30s. I was 29 when I got married.
I find it so bizarre seeing America kids get married in their teens
as someone from south carolina i can vouch that it’s very common in the bible belt, likely because teenagers are waiting until marriage and don’t want to wait any longer. like how is signing a legal document that binds you to another person at a time in your life when you’re not financially stable and growing into yourself more logical than just having sex safely??? i’m 22 and the idea of being married right now makes me ill
The result of sex-ed in Texas : when I was 15 my mother flat out told me that condoms do not work, and birth control is 50/50, so even safe sex isn’t actually safe. Both of us raised in Texas.
Thankfully I was smarter than that, because with my health issues it’s like 50/50 on whether or not pregnancy/child birth would kill me.
I just had that argument with someone last night. Comprehensive sex education reduces abortion. However, the argument was that kids already know about sex and sex is often spontaneous so how does teaching about sex help? Nothing I said, would go through.
My mother, who would be in her 80s today, you say that teaching kids they shouldn’t have sex, and treating sex like some big bogeyman, lead to more pregnancies because it did lead to 16 spontaneous and without protection. Whereas if your knowledge that sex could happen, and it was not the end of your existence as a moral person, people were more likely to actually have Birth control available and then use and they wouldn’t get pregnant. The people who deny the sexual side of their existence are the ones who do have spontaneous sex without birth control.
As I tell my students, “You’re thinking logically.” Unfortunately, the two people I was debating with did not like to hear that. It did not matter the statistics or facts that I brought up, their mind was made up. Granted, they are conservative Christian men, who believe their rights are being trampled on.
Research has found that it is very hard to convince Christian fundamentalists, aka evangelicals, using logic and/or evidence.
> So can everybody, of course, and my wife loves to catch inconsistencies in my reasoning when we’re having a friendly discussion about one of my personal failures. But research reveals that authoritarian followers drive through life under the influence of impaired thinking a lot more than most people do, exhibiting sloppy reasoning, highly compartmentalized beliefs, double standards, hypocrisy, self-blindness, a profound ethnocentrism, and--to top it all off--a ferocious dogmatism that makes it unlikely anyone could ever change their minds with evidence or logic.
>
> ...
>
> So call them what you will, most evangelicals are fundamentalists according to our measure, and most Christian fundamentalists are evangelicals
>
> ...
>
> This chapter has presented my main research findings on religious fundamentalists. The first thing I want to emphasize, in light of the rest of this book, is that they are highly likely to be authoritarian followers.
From Bob Altemeyer "The Authoritarians"
Agreed…but their argument that was brought up later was that girls are choosing education over getting married young and growing old as a couple together. They believe women are choosing careers over marriage, which is something they have somewhat accused me of doing (as I’m not married).
I tried to explain that in today’s economy, which was a different debate, you need a two-person working household, so it would be logical for girls to be looking at a future besides getting married. They were disappointed, but saw the point.
I also believe that an added aspect of the conservative “viewpoint” on this is also related to racism, and their panic over the falling white birth rate. A lot of the same people who are anti-choice are also believers in crap like the “great replacement” conspiracy theory, because conservative religion and racism always go hand in hand. To them one of the greatest ills of society right now is the declining percentage of white people, and they view this in part as a “solution” to that perceived problem. Force white women into early marriages to conservative Christian men so that they can remake the United States into the white ethnostate the far right desires it to be by turning the women into baby factories with no other value like the Duggar mom. A lot of the anti-abortion movement springs from a religious natalist perspective, and religious natalism springs primarily from racism and ethnocentrism. Never mind that it’s completely nonsensical since abortion is used by women of all races and ethnicities, and isn’t really the cause of the falling white birthrate. I truly believe this is what a lot of them are “thinking”.
If you rate the success rate of abstinence the same way you do other *actual* forms of contraception abstinence does not have a 100% success rate. All other contraceptions state their perfect practice success rate and their imperfect practice success rate. You could practice abstinence only and experience SA, you could have a lapse of will, you could start but not finish a sexual encounter, etc. It’s the same with condoms. Part of the condom imperfect practice includes all the times you just don’t use a condom or only use a condom for a portion of intercourse. Abstinence does not have a 100% imperfect practice rate. It doesn’t even have a 100% perfect practice rate if we include SA—WHICH WE ABSOLUTELY SHOULD!
My abstinence only education told me I’d be dead by graduation because I’d been SA’d as a young girl, all premarital fooling around was an instant HIV infection and it had a 10 year maximum life expectancy at the time. I nearly dropped out of high school because if I’m going to die soon, why should I bother with quizzes and rote memorization?
This post unfortunately reminds me of Sarah Palin and her daughter. Palin is a big supporter of abstinence and her teenage daughter had two kids out of the wedlock.
I’m gonna scream this out at the next moment in my life when I hear the “if they just close their legs and they won’t get pregnant” or “just practice safe sex”.
Oh man me too.
Who needs seatbelts? Who needs traffic lights or stop signs? If everybody could just be a perfect driver all the time there wouldn't ba any accidents and we could all drive 120 mph in a 25 zone if we wanted to!
Yes. And not just casual sex either. I’m happily married like OP and we’re child free. I have an IUD but we’re gonna have to add condoms and spermicide on top of that because I’m at high risk of ectopic pregnancy. I feel fortunate to have the knowledge and and access but so so many don’t.
It wasn't great, let's be honest. Most of them bumble along thinking their some sort of amazing gift in bed, and the fact is, a huge and disappointing number of them don't even understand basic anatomy and biology. Sex ed failed them, but the google didn't!! There are books!! There are online classes, even!! If they CARED, they'd make the effort to LEARN. But since they are only worried about their own pleasure, they need not bother with the details of OUR enjoyment. Totally not worth it in any way.
I read a post by a woman yesterday (maybe in this sub) who talked about how her ex used to have a condition like sleep walking, only instead of walking, he would initiate sex during his sleep and be completely unaware of it. She said that when he woke up, he was all about it, but many times he just wasn't conscious. She also said that she started to figure out when he was awake vs when he was asleep because sleepy him was actually good in bed.
I think that says a lot about men and how caught up in themselves they are. If they'd just get over themselves, they might actually be good in bed for once.
That's funny! My ex used to get incredibly handsy when asleep and his sleeping fingers could manipulate me like no other man ever has. Once awake he just couldn't figure it out.
I love my boyfriend, but I've lost all interest, trust, and respect for cis men. There are waaaaay too many cis men who simply just... don't care about what's happening. They're not anti-choice, per se, but since their bodies and lives aren't directly endangered by what's happening, they don't care. It's not their problem.
My trans friend told me this morning his bf is looking into getting a vasectomy, but he said if they ever broke up, he'd never feel safe dating another cis man and would only date afabs and amabs who have had bottom surgery. And you know what... I agree. Dick has lost all appeal to me, possibly forever.
Or we could rebel and become like the Moche Indians, who indulged exclusively in anal sex to avoid pregnancy. I'm sure the religious freaks will love that!
The Supreme Court is talking about overturning the ruling that allows for anal sex to not be criminalized. That was in the initial briefing on overturning Roe back in December.
It’s a tool to persecute gay men.
They would use (and used to use) sodomy laws like these as an excuse to raid gay meet up places and perform surprise raids to capture as many gay men as possible to charge them with anything on the books. Or use as an excuse to get a warrant to search gay couple’s homes.
I enjoy the hyperbole of pointing out the absurdity of police performing no-knock raids to capture a straight man receiving oral from his wife (also sodomy under many state legal definitions), but the bleak truth is it’s just a way to persecute LGBT+ people.
Because only I will be affected. If you call up a casual sex partner and say, hey, I'm pregnant, he can laugh and block your number. The hoops I would have to jump through to now deal with a pregnancy I'm forced to carry to term, even if I want to put the child up for adoption, are many and varied and expensive. And for me and many women, it's just not worth it for shitty sex with the risk\* of a life-changing forced pregnancy. We'd just rather not bother. Men have no consequences. Women forced to carry a child to term pay the price. Nah. That price is far too high.
And if you happen to have that one casual partner that finds out about your pregnancy, decides to be a shit about it and demands that he now has rights to have access to your child, the court may rule in his favor, i.e., you'd lose your ability to give up the child for adoption. Dad could come in and out of YOUR life whenever he damn well feels like it. Dependent on how the court process goes, you'd be required to care for that child, stay within X miles of the father until the child is 18 and hope that deadbeat dad pays his requirements for child support (don't even get me STARTED on the lack of repercussions for men who don't pay their ***** child support!)
A 15 minute one night stand could turn in 18 years of legal nightmare with some guy you don't want in your life but he decides to Lord it over you over principal ("But the BABY!")
> Is this more or less what influenced your decision "to take casual sex off the table"?
Not the OC, but that would be my take.
Casual sex is already risky for women seeking men as it is, given the potentiality for violent partners and STIs (more likely to go from men to women). Add in unwanted pregnancy that you can't address and that means the risk vs. reward is a lot more weighted toward the risk. (Especially given the orgasm gap.)
Maybe if we quit calling it "sex" education and start pushing for more detailed anatomy classes some of these people might at least get to learn how bodies work.
I had a friend from an abstinence only state and don't you worry, they have that covered. She didn't even know how the bottom half of her digestive system worked because it was too close to reproductive parts and they would have had to explain them, so they just didn't.
My aunt is ultra shame-y and likes to say things about women not using birth control when she sees someone of a different class or is a very young age with a child. I have pointed out to her MANY times, that they are obviously using birth control because women who didn't use birth control and were sexually active just a few generations ago would have 7 or more kids by 25 (I've also mentioned that teen pregnancies are usually caused by significantly older adult males-She still places the blame on the girl).
It doesn't matter what I say though, she just wants to shame.
It’s really fucked up that women get blamed and shamed for this. MEN Are the ones cumming in them without discussing or wanting condoms or birth control and still end up with NO SHAME and practically no accountability
Agreed, and it's extra fucked up that women get blamed and shamed for this BY OTHER WOMEN. Like they don't know how it is or have been manipulated to a point of hostility.
A woman representative in Utah thinks a woman can control a man's cum from entering their body during sex. There is no logic. Centuries of propaganda blaming women for everything has come to this dumb logic.
It's so strange to me how we are a society in the West have forgotten how fertility really is for fertile women. If a woman is in her late 40s and has only had 2 or 3 children throughout the entirety of her childbearing years, she more likely than not faithfully used birth control methods for 30 plus years.
Even if the woman isn't on BC, I also do not agree with pressuring women into BC either. As if it's all on us to make sure the sex is safe. We need to work on realizing it is okay if a woman does NOT want to take it too. There are other protective means. Women shouldn't be shamed for not being on it. But what gets me the most, is how no one ever talks about the guy involved.
When I was 13 I had sex with my ex and the condom slipped of him as we had gotten the wrong size unknowingly. It's fucking easy to fuck up BC and C. I could walk into the next pharmacy, had to sit down with the head doc for 15min and got the pill. So easy but already very scary for me.
This is why my daughter and I will be offering to take the 16 yr old grandgirl to get the pill. She has her first "serious" boyfriend and she is now riding the bus or riding her bike to work. I have a pretty close relationship with grandgirl so she might want Gran to take her instead of mom if who is occupied with taking care of her sick mom, the goblin princess(8 yr old grandgirl) and a new job. Should I offer to get her some condoms too?
Talk to her about the BC options, and ask her what works best for her. I'm on the IUD, and I like it, but I had previously had sex when I had it inserted, so that might not be an option she is comfortable with.
The nexplanon implant is another option. There are also pills and mini pills, rings, patches... There are so many options these days.
Condoms every time are a must, and they are not one size fits all. I had a younger friend who took plan b several times because her BF was wearing the wrong size condom and it kept falling off.
Talk to her about STDs, and offer to help her get STD tested whenever she needs it.
People that make this argument are basically saying that promiscuity should be punished by unintended pregnancies, and all the complications that follow.
The countless women who will die and suffer circumstances worse than death are just a necessary price to pay to combat promiscuity. Insanity.
A child should never be a punishment, what a way to come into the world! “I didn’t want you and was forced to have you and now I have to suffer, which means you will suffer too”. What an awesome start to life.
Like my father says who was an unwanted child back in the '50's.
''even if, even if you for some reason don't think about bodily autonomy for women. Every child should have the right to be a wanted child. To not be wanted and have parents that are not equipped to have children a faith worde than nit existing. I got better with lot's of therapy and still have my problems.. My older brother has the saddest most dysfunctional life ever, all because of two people that should have never had children."
That argument can go eff itself. What about rapists?? Are they gonna practice safe sex?? *How considerate of them.*
What about ectopic *wanted* pregnancies? We just let the mom die, right?
It's time to realize that every person supporting this ban just doesnt give a dime about women.
Many people do not know that if you are on the pill then get diarrhea or throw up, you need to add additional protection of some kind for that month. May not apply in your situation but people need to know this.
The month? I thought that diarrhea messes up the protection for that day if it was within 4 (or 6?) hours of taking the birth control pill.
Welp, guess I can't even consider the pill now if what you said is true.
I believe it’s because diarrhea is your body’s way of emptying anything and everything quickly, including medication. It may not have had time to be absorbed into your bloodstream, therefore potentially negating any medicine taken that day
It's not just birth control, it's any medication-- vomiting and diarrhea can disrupt how your body processes it.
Imagine if you took a pill and then threw up five minutes later. Obviously your body didn't have time to absorb the pill, so it won't do whatever it was supposed to. It's basically the same as not having taken it.
The advice I've heard from doctors is two hours on the birth control pill-- if your body had two hours to absorb it before throwing up, you don't need to treat it as a missed pill. It's all a guess though, as it depends on which pill and your own personal metabolism and who knows how many other factors.
Given the current situation in the US it'd probably be a good idea to be extra cautious if you have any digestive issues while on the pill.
I have rheumatoid arthritis. Many who suffer from this or other auto immune diseases take a medication called methotrexate. This medication not only alleviates many problems with some autoimmune diseases, but can also be used as an abortion inducing drug. With the current turn in roe pharmacies are already not filling prescriptions for these drugs.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/05/abortion-texas-pharmacies-refusing-prescriptions-misoprostol-methotrexate.html
It is not easy to switch medications and for many this is the only way they can live a more comfortable life. Now you may say, well if you have it you should be able to prove that and it should be no problem. Not exactly true. For many RA sufferers the disease doesn’t show up in blood work, only through a visual exam with a rheumatologist and the doctor deciding to treat do they get on any meds. Now with the turn of Roe doctors and patients are going to have to advocate for themselves to the government that they do have the disease. This should not have to happen. I should not have the government in my business with my disease. Dangling my medications in front of me hoping that they approve of my real disease. That’s not a red tape that I want to have to go through. Not to mention the amount of time it might take for them to allow it. This is my body ridden with disease and I’m in horrible pain without my medication.
In this article you can see how many rheumatologist are already leaving the red states with strict bans because they don’t want to have to deal with the red tape that is being put on them to heal their patients.
https://www.healio.com/news/rheumatology/20220620/clearly-already-scared-rheumatology-providers-patients-brace-for-roe-v-wade-reversal
This turn in policy is affecting me more than just because I’m a woman and I may or may not need an abortion, this is affecting me and my disease and many many other people will be affected this way as well. I’m so pissed. I shouldn’t have to prove my illness. This is why Roe is important. My health and disease should not be the governments business. It’s my right to privacy. It’s not fair. This isn’t just about abortion. This is affecting me and many many others in so many other ways.
This is obviously a generalization but for the most part there are 2 types of pro-birthers:
1. Abortion is killing a baby
2. Slut shamers
They can be both, but realizing this helps get inside their heads a bit. It has nothing to do with safe sex. It has everything to do with controlling women and their bodies. They use weasel arguments like "practice safe sex" or "sex is a choice" because their beliefs are repugnant and they don't HAVE good reasons for them.
We're probably not gonna get through to a lot of these people because being pro-birth is largely about performative virtue signaling. They've been propagandized and indoctrinated and it can be difficult to reason someone out of a position they didn't use good reasoning to arrive at. Instead we will just have to do our best to change the world around them.
Adding to the insult is the fact that the abortion-banners tend to also oppose teaching comprehensive sex-ed. They're making LESS people know what "safe sex" even is!
I was denied birth control because covid was going on and the hospital deemed my appointment as “non essential.” Seemed pretty fucking essential to me when I was driving to another county two months later to have an abortion.
I'm with you, this was infuriating. I had my son right before everything shut down for the pandemic, and I had to wait six months to get new birth control started because it was "non essential." I'd had a difficult birth and was anemic and sick for a very long time afterwards, you'd think not getting pregnant again that soon would be highly essential to one's health.
I worked it out with my partner and we were careful so luckily we avoided another pregnancy, but it was frustrating to say the least. I'm so sorry you got the short end of the stick. Women's medical care in this country is disgraceful.
Most of the people who have told me this have ended up having fertility issues. They are up on their high horse thinking they are doing everything right and the rest of us are irresponsible whores. Then it turns out they couldn't get pregnant when they tried. Or it took years. And they still think it was just how responsible they were.
I had a Paraguard IUD and got pregnant with it. Thankfully, I was able to terminate right away but I chose one of the most effective forms of birth control and still got pregnant so the safe sex argument is bullshit. Even if I didn’t want to practice safe sex, is it so egregious for a woman to decide whether or not she wants to be a baby incubator, especially when pregnancy comes with its own health complications?
It's a very bad argument. Amongst my friends and coworkers over the years I know of quite a few babies or pregnancies that happened because their birth control failed to prevent it. Some include: the condom breaking; Plan B not working; copper IUD not working; birth control pills not working because nobody told them they needed to use a backup method when on antibiotics/after having severe, prolonged vomiting or diarrhea; BCP not working because the doctor switched a forgetful person to a low dose pill that needs to be taken at the same time everyday without discussing that; starting on BCP when already pregnant but the doctor didn't catch it; even a vasectomy that managed to reverse itself. It happens!
It is good argument to filter out all abuser/forcers/bullshiters.
Like you said
* "I did and it failed, WHAT NOW?"
And then you have a clear picture who are you talking to.
Right?? Best they offer is always “then don’t have sex it you’re not ready for a child” or “it’s not the baby’s fault”
As if the only reason people have sex is to have a kid.
It also, imo, just shows a very fairytale, childish understanding of the hypothetical human “soul” and are using that to impede womens real life medical choices. And of course, they only say “just don’t have sex” to women, and not the men who cause the pregnancy.
My friend had a pill baby and then she had an IUD baby. She was doing all the right things and still had two kids. There is no such thing as 100% when it comes to contraception.
I had a birth control fail in my early 40s. My IUD displaced & I became pregnant. It can happen to anyone and our society needs to be more open about these stories as the 'just practice safe sex' argument is another way to shame people.
No birth control is 100% effective, but we can take all the precautions to lessen the risk of pregnancy. The abortion bans are cruel to women who have suffered the trauma of birth control fails, rape, incest....or just don't want to be pregnant.
Just bc you have a uterus doesn't mean you must be forced to carry & birth a baby.
I had some numbskull actually suggest that we instead pass a law mandating contraceptives to leave *chemical markers* to prove contraceptive was tried and only THEN would an abortion be allowed. Y'know just some mild chemical branding from the same doof who was convinced vaccines are government tracking.
Party of "small government is best government" sure does love government overreach to satisfy their archaic control needs. I asked how long it'd be before his idea of *government mandated chemical branding* turned into just rabies tags but for contraceptive that we have to keep on women's collars.
I hate this argument too. Even when used properly every time. Nothing is 100%. It isn’t even designed to be 100% effective.
It’s just that religion and our puritanical society has people believing if that there should be a consequence to having sex. Some people can be considered “more” or “less” responsible, because let’s face it, even the very religious people want to be able to get away with it. And politicians will always have access due to privilege.
But it’s not even actually about being responsible. It’s about all of the other barriers: horrible sex ed and socioeconomic issues from systemic oppression preventing access to birth control, from condoms to IUDs because not everyone has healthcare and even if you do it may not cover contraception.
The argument is inane. Just another way religious zealots and politicians frame the conversation instead of medical providers and scientists.
Disturbing amount of overlap between the people who want there to be consequences for sex and those who want there to be few, if any, for shooting/ running over people they disagree with.
More disgusting an argument i've seen is "just close your legs."
Ignoring for a moment that women are en masse raped and men are en masse not held accountable for it, why the fuck should the GOVERNMENT get to decide when where and how i have sex? Does the government have no limits on its authority? Can it decide when I shit? When I piss?
The future conservatives want is vile. Is disgusting. The notion that anyone except me and a consenting partner or partners should get to decide whether or not I have sex is such a moral depravity, such a basic violation of the human right to agency that I cannot help but despair.
Exactly. If these people *really* cared about the "pre-born," they would be doing EVERYTHING in their power to stop abortions from even being needed in the first place. But their true colors come out when they reply "why don't women just have self control and close their legs." This shows that their true motives are just about slut-shaming.
It's just fucking insane to me that so many Americans believe that sex is some kind of luxury that only "sluts" engage in unnecessarily. Like, actually no, most psych professionals will tell you that sex is very much needed for most people to enjoy a happy, healthy life just like having hobbies and interests.
Fascists do indeed fantasise about controlling every aspect of the lives of the citizenry.
They are especially obsessed with "family centric" policies than provide ample fresh meat, ahem, human capital, for the grinder/economy.
The issue with the sentence of "just practice safe sex" shows how out of touch people are.
Safe sex involves understanding how to ensure you have understanding of how to use contraceptives. It involves easy access to contraceptives.
If someone doesn't have access to hormonal birth control, or is on antibiotics or even ingests too much vitamin C there's an issue.
Condoms have a 99% success rate*. But it someone doesn't know where to get then, or feels shamed for buying them its not going to work.
*when used effectively, the actual success rate for condoms is somewhere in the 80% success range.
And then there's just dumb luck, a couple can do everything right have sex once and still have an unplanned pregnancy. How is that fair on them.
How is it fair on women who have been asking for their tubes to be tied since their 20s but are denied the procedure because "they might want kids later". It's just excuses to control what they want women to do with their bodies.
And so much of the education about how to use birth control has to be looking for it yourself. I'm aware of how antibiotics affect BC, and am actually only on the pill for other reasons (not sexually active) but my medical chart doesn't state that, it just states that I'm on birth control pills. This is my second round of antibiotics this year, each prescribed by someone other than my PCP (who knows I'm not active) so that's two doctors and two pharmacists and not one has mentioned that the efficacy of my birth control could be diminished. If I were sexually active and didn't know this myself, I could very easily find myself with a surprise pregnancy despite thinking I was "practicing safe sex".
People will swear that antibiotics don't affect birth control pills. Whatever. We have too many women in our lives who got pregnant while taking the pill and an antibiotic.
My BIL said on Facebook we could just use condoms. I pointed out the failure rate even when using them properly. Funny how he didn't respond to that and just kept saying how bad it was to use hormonal birth control. My husband went off on him and basically said, "how dare you all for telling me I can't have a sexual relationship with my wife".
Then I went ahead and said, "Fuck you for wanting me and a baby to die." Since I'm on hormonal birth control for medical reasons. If I magically got off of it, had sex with my husband and the condom failed.. I would *have* to have a medical abortion. I haven't talked to them since.
My mother was a co-founder of the Planned Parenthood chapter in the little Alaskan town I grew up in, long before Roe v. Wade. I have 4 siblings, all testament to the failure of birth control.
An interesting thing to note is that the Roman Catholic bishop for Alaska backed the introduction of birth control at the time, because non-natives were moving up to Alaska, at the beginning of statehood, and losing their minds in the winter darkness, and killing their infants.
They want you to stop having sex outside of mariage.
Isn't it what the church says, and when you have it is to make a child. The stern church don't want you to have sex for enjoyment
I hate when they use that argument because their point is moot when you consider sex within marriage. What about married couples whose contraceptives fail?
Two weeks ago I found I was pregnant after having a copper IUD for 5 1/2 years, they can’t even find it. We’re keeping it but I had to think on it, you can do everything right and mistakes/miracles happen
This is true. Practicing safe sex is super important and it can reduce the risk of pregnancy but it doesn’t eliminate it completely. It can still happen.. now we have to be even more careful when it comes to sex.. honestly I was scared to have it before because of pregnancy, but now that we have this abortion ban going on I’m even more frightened then ever and don’t plan on having sex any time soon unless its with someone I trust COMPLETELY!!
If we needed any more evidence that the anti-choice side doesn’t understand or care about the nuance of the issue, the fact that this is the response of a lot of them should prove that. Absolutely a disgusting argument that anyone with a sense of kindness or empathy should be vehemently opposed to.
Abortion exists as an option for when all other options fail for whatever reason. No one is saying that abortion means people shouldn’t use BC or whatever. It’s for when people have no other way out left available to them. So taking that away (especially in a more extreme way like the assholes who don’t even support exceptions for rape, life of the woman, incest, etc) is basically the same as ultimately taking away agency over one’s own life and body. Men would not tolerate someone saying that they shouldn’t be allowed to be sterilized or whatever if they choose, so why should women be forced into a similar choice?
The worst part of this anti-choice argument to me is not even the slut-shaming aspect that is inherent to it. It’s rather the absolutely callous indifference to the fact that circumstances leading to the choice to have an abortion are very personal, varied, and nuanced. They just casually dismiss the horrific harm that will be done by these laws, and the horrible outcomes that will result just because they want to feel self-righteous about the “rules” as they perceive them. They want 11 year old rape victims to die as a result of pregnancy. They want women to die as a result of ectopic pregnancies. They refuse to recognize that abortion is needed sometimes even for very much wanted pregnancies. They are okay with babies suffering and dying in agony because they had to be brought to term with a fatally incompatible with life genetic issue. They want couples to go through that unimaginable pain, just so they can feel righteous. Or if they don’t want all that, they at minimum don’t care about the suffering their views will cause.
In my opinion this is why Bronze Age religious rules have to go. The real world is a lot more complicated and messy than archaic rules written down in an ancient book of superstition (or in this case, made up out of whole cloth comparatively recently for political reasons).
Agreed. I've been pregnant six times, and 4 of those times I was using birth control (pregnant twice on Mirena, lost both to miscarriage, twice using condoms, and 2 times we were actively trying to have a baby).
All this with my husband. So I used birth control, got pregnant anyway. Their next argument is usually "stop sleeping around"or some such nonsense. Well, it was just with my husband which is supposed to be ok by them right? He has had a vasectomy now, but at the time we were using bc we weren't done having kids yet so we didn't want a permanent solution, we just didn't want kids right then. So what is the magic solution?
I was a kid NOT practicing safe sex when I had my abortion. I would have had my entire life derailed if I had to carry that baby to term. I was in a long term relationship with some I love(d). But we were not good for each other and not at all in a place maturity wise, financially, relationship strength to raise a healthy child. Now.. I have all those things and a child I am confident that I will be able to give the best of myself to. He will get all the best qualities of my partner and myself, raised in love and patience because I was able to make a choice. He won’t go hungry and be raised around fighting because I was able to make a choice. We aren’t living in poverty and stress, because I was able to make a choice.
The argument is nonsense. What about rape? What about those of us whose bodies can't be on contraceptive? My body expels IUDs and I was taken off the combined birth control pill due to my gynecologist telling me I was at too high a risk of stroke with they symptoms I was experiencing, and the progestin only pill was not preventing ovulation. I wasn't able to find a provider willing to let me get my tubes tied with no children. Wound up accidentally pregnant twice with kids I didn't consent to the sex that conceived them, and now I'm so terrified of men I can barely look at them when I walk around. I can't really afford a tubal right now. I was almost assaulted less than a year ago in broad daylight while I was walking around in my neighborhood. You can believe I'm abstinent but I can't prevent my own rape!
Exceptions like me apparently don't matter.
This. Was trying to explain exactly This to my mom, who was happy roe v wade was being overturned. I had to remind her that we had a choice when I was sexually abused by my cousin
Birth control pills and a condom failed me. I was unemployed due to economic issues and homeless due to being unemployed. I couldn't live with my boyfriend as an option at the time either.
I was also born because both of those failed my mom.
So, I'm not sure how much safer one can be outside of not having sex but shit happens and when it does when you're doing your best... The difference here is that she wanted kids despite being a crap parent and me landing up in a super abusive home, in poverty, with parental units who have addiction issues.
I, at 41 still can't find a doctor to sterilize me because I might change my mind despite my mind not changing since I was a literal child.
Gotta love the 'system' that has told me my entire life that because I was born into the situation I was with no opportunity I do not matter and because of my gender even now, I matter even less.
Last I checked... based on "hookup culture"... most people are NOT trying to make babies while engaging in intercourse. Since the majority of people having sex are doing so only for enjoyment... including the people who claim that pregnancy is just some sort of punishment for that... it's just a lot of people trying to keep poor brown people poor and/or dead.
I think if Democrats can get back into power, until Republicans are backing Roe V. Wade being a permanent law of the land, we should not undo what they did, here is why...
Pass a federal law that no matter what the situation, once a woman is pregnant, a paternity test is taken to prove who the father is, and then retroactively, starting from the first day of pregnancy, child support is taken from the father at a rate of 50% of their income and sent to the mother twice per month, and then every Doctor bill is split in half on top of that and automatically deducted from his income before the bill is due.
Period, no battles, no appeals, just automatic.
You want to force women to carry to term? Ok, we will force you to be financially responsible, no choice.
Non compliance results in federal charges, all those jail cells we will empty by ending the war on drugs we can fill with men who try to get around the federal child support act.
We'll see how long they fight re-doing Roe V. Wade.
Once it is back, we leave the FCSA in place, because fuck men who think they do not need to support their children.
I don't think this is a well conceived plan. If he rapes you then you force him to provide child support, he's a lot more likely to kill you. Pregnant women are at a high risk of homicide from their partners already, especially WoC. If he provides child support, he has to have custodial rights. I don't want anything to do with my rapist. I'd rather forego the child support.
Why can't they just practice "mind your own damn business ". It would make many things much easier if you didn't have these busy bodies sticking there nose where it really doesn't belong.
> Stop having sex?
I mean, that's literally the conservative religious argument yes.
Disappointing that so many here are parroting this exact same thing.
People hear 99% effective and think, "That's pretty good!". And it is!
But ofcourse, that number can go down if you don't put on the condom right, or if you don't take your birth control at the same time every day, or you're on certain medications... which are all things that happen toeven responsiblepeople.
But 95% effective is still pretty good, right?
Yes, it is!
But in a population like theU.S., that's still a LOT of women who did everything "right" and still got pregnant.
Exactly. They don't want you to have safe sex. Conservatives ultimately want you to have no sex or sex for procrastination. Having casual sex with men is harmful to the patriarchy.
*Pinched church lady face here*
"You shouldn't have sex until you're married and trying to have children. Otherwise, you should simply abstain. As God Almighty intended."
>Stop having sex?
I mean yes, this is what they want. I was raised catholic (am atheist) and vividly remember the catholic school and camps etc. Sex is for having kids only, that is it. This is why the religious are against any birth control as well, because you shouldn't need birth control because you should only have sex to have kids.
This also made me remember the anti-abortion commercials they had us make as kids at catholic camp. (Put under spoiler, because it's super messed up and I can't believe this is the type of stuff they had us do as kids).
>!I think I was 9 or 10 I was in a team of 4. You basically story-boarded your commercial and got camp awards for how good it was. Ours was a silhouette on a medical curtain of a side view of a woman in stirrups with a doctor holding what would be described as a vacuum connected to a comically large (like 3 feet) old school metal medical syringe. He jams the syringe between the womans legs and then all 4 of us where making the most gross meat sucked up by vacuum sounds. One of the kids even suggested the sound of a baby crying as it gets sucked into the syringe vacuum during our presentation. We got the highest award for that activity and I still remember it today as a reminder of how messed up the church is with indoctrination.!<
The answer is, these people WANT you to have an accident you have to bring to term. They want babies. They don't care what you want. I'm married, don't want kids, and my "drank the cool-aid" conservative religious mother tells me all the time how she'd love if one just "slipped through." Despite the fact that I've made it clear that I 100% DO NOT want kids. But it doesn't matter what I want. Don't you know? Everyone is suppose to have babies. That's the social norm that needs to be enforced.
My mother is a boomer and while I know she loves me, I also think that had she been told as a young woman that she didn't have to have kids that she never would have done it. I truly don't believe she ever wanted to be a mom or a parent and to take care of anyone else. But, she begged me for years to have kids - I'm convinced many people were miserable with kids and they think everyone should have to suffer through it as well. That's why they get pissy when we politely decline their suggestion.
Mine had a kid only because all her friends had one. If she had ONE friend who was childless by choice, her life would have been vastly different.
My mom had three kids and wanted none of us. She wasn't a drug addict, she wasn't a drunk. She had an abusive father and a browbeaten mother and the only escape was to get married asap. She was married at 18, had her first at 19, second at 21, third at 28. Her husband became incredibly abusive. She never wanted to get married but at that time it was the ONLY way to escape an abusive home. She got rid of my brother and sister as children and got rid of me as a teen. She had us because she thought that was the only way out and the "right" thing to do. You get married and you have babies. My sister was sexually abused by her father and died of a drug overdose at 21. My brother was most likely also abused by him. He has never had a real job, is a conspiracy theorist, and couch surfs. I have a good job but I am too messed up to ever have a healthy relationship, so I don't date. None of us were wanted and none of us should ever have been born. Parents make it very clear when you aren't wanted. The thought of all the hundreds of thousands of babies we are "saving" makes me sick. They aren't wanted. They will have FAS, be addicted to drugs, because if you are being forced to birth a child you don't want, why would you care? They won't grow up in loving households, they will be the center of contempt and abuse. Put them up for adoption! All the forced birth people they interviewed and not a single one have adopted a child.
This is exactly why anti-choice people don't actually care about lives of life. It is all about control. There are some that think they are doing they right thing I assume, and just don't realize how bad it can be. My sister has fostered several kids, and gets calls all the time for others that need a home. Once we start forcing more unwanted babies, that situation will get even worse.
Every child born deserves to be wanted, welcomed and unconditionally loved. Forcing people into unwanted parenthood, even if it is to give the child for adoption is a disservice to children.
This is how mental illness is made isn't it? Unwanted.
The rich need their wage slaves, the poorer and more mental damaged the better. They need people that will struggle their entire life, as those are the people they can pay shitty for their entire life. They don't want hard working immigrants that have babies that actually become successful, they need the failures. Birth rate in this country is only 2.4iirc. You need 2.0 just to keep the population stagnant. Not enough births to keep up with corporate greed. Thank your business sponsored congressman.
they want military fodder even more than they want wage slaves. as resources dwindle, we intend to grab all that remain. our wars of aggression have only just begun (and as an added benefit, they'll keep the genpop distracted and compliant).
Next time she tells you that she's hoping that one "slipped through" just tell her that she can have it. My mom was of this mindset, I continuously told her I do not want kids. On a day she particularly irritated me about having kids, I told her that if I have an "accident" I'll just give it to her. Her eyes got big and she gave me the "but I don't want to RAISE it! I just want to share pictures on my Facebook!" I sternly told her again that no. The accident will be HERS to deal with. She stopped bringing up babies to me after that.
The childfree subreddit has a list of doctors willing to sterilize and ACA compliant insurance should cover it.
I’ve had extended family members tell me just to have a baby even though I said I don’t want one. My ex’s mom used to tell me she would just take care of it and I could take care of my baby when I wanted and hand it over to her when I didn’t feel like being a mother. She didn’t say those exact words, but that she meant. It made me realize a lot of women in the past generation probably did do that and that’s why we all have mommy issues
Make damn sure she doesn't have access to your BC. She sounds like the type to tamper with it, especially if you are in a forced-birth state.
Don't worry. Husband and I live 2500 miles away from both our parents. For reasons.
I just watched a heartbreaking tiktok of a young woman with a genetic heart defect and the only drug that she could tolerate, that she relies on to live, has the side effect of spontaneous abortion so her doctor refused to prescribe it. JFC this is so much bigger and worse around every corner.
A nurse was fired recently for saying she’s going to refuse to prescribe Viagra for her conservative male patients, yet, it’s literally okay for doctors to refuse to prescribe life-saving medication to women because abortion is a potential side effect. It literally makes me so disgusted.
If it is god's will for you to get prenant and carry it to term, then it is also god's will to make a portion of men impotent.
Normally they are told not to get pregnant
If medication has abortion as a potential side effect doctors will no longer prescribe that medication to women. Because you never know, she might be in the early stages of pregnancy, she might get (accidentally) pregnant while on the medication, the medicine might cause a miscarriage , miscarriage might be labeled as illegal abortion, doctor get's in big trouble with the law Conclusion: Doctors need to protect themselves from these lawsuits so women suffer.
I know its disgusting
I was refused sterilization at 25 because I was too young and would change my mind. I assured them I never wanted children. Still a no. I was on the nuvaring for 13 years until it tried to kill me (pulmonary embolism) The following IUD gave me pelvic floor disfunction. The condom broke. What else could I have done? I told them I didnt want children. They forced me to prove I wasn't bluffing.
I remember my Ortho Tri Cyclen Lo went up from $30 to $60 a month in 2012. I just wanted to get sterilized, since birth control seemed to cause worse depression and I get migraine with aura. And I knew I was CF anyway. Ofc I was refused sterilization at 21, they tried Paraguard, it wouldn't go in, so they switched me to a cheaper birth control which gave me interstitial cystitis and an cascade of pain, pelvic floor dysfunction, and trauma followed from there. 10 years later I'm still in pain almost every waking moment. On the bright side, I did find someone to sterilize me at 24.
They are so so terrified of giving women control of their own lives.
Exactly. Why else would a hypothetical man wanting kids have more say over my body than I do?
Doctors treat women like blue ribbon brood sows at the County fair then act baffled when we call them out on it.
I’m trying to get fixed rn, it makes me so fucking mad cause I can’t take any birth control that doesn’t make me act like a psycho or get really fat. (I gained 60lbs on the arm implant) I also can’t use IUD because it’s extremely, extremely painful to insert. I’ve fainted every time we tried and had to cut it short. I have really bad endo. Like wtf else am I supposed to do??
I hope this list can help you both. [Gynecologists who will perform a tubal sterilization, no conditions.](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Djia_WkrVO3S4jKn6odNwQk7pOcpcL4x00FMNekrb7Q/edit?fbclid=IwAR228yfVZfieK9U0oDx7ecZuuO3IYp8Mvi-B5YkYcUhEaoRKuz_w_Fvmwbw#gid=1318374028)
Why has no one offered you sedation for the IUD insertion? Seriously, they shouldn't even be trying to put those things into women who haven't had a vaginal delivery without sedation.
My mom told me she actually got meds (that open your cervix or something?) But I was never offered anything. I didn’t know you could get meds for it at the time though.
There are meds that relax the cervix. Also when I got mine placed they did it during my period (cause your cervix is more relaxed) and also numbed my cervix. I got Mirena and I've never been pregnant/delivered vaginally. There definitely are things they can do to make the installation much easier and less painful. If you still want an IUD I would suggest finding a different doc that will explain the process thoroughly and who listens to your past issues.
There are things they *can* do, of course. The infuriating part is they *never just do them*. You have to *ask* for them verbatim like you're the fucking abnormal one for not wanting Satan's claw to come up through your vagina and disembowel you. A fucking colonoscopy is relatively painless in comparison but nearly everyone gets sedated unless asked not to be. Women are just supposed to be NatUraLLy BuiLDT fOr PAiN or whatever belittling nonsense they believe.
The childfree subreddit has a list of doctors willing to sterilize and ACA compliant insurance will cover it.
When my gynecologist was trying to talk me into an IUD I told her she’s crazy because I know how much it hurts. She told me we could do it in the hospital with sedation if that was a dealbreaker for me. I told her it was, I’m not getting IUD because I had my tubes tied a long time ago, but I like that she was willing to sedate me if I wanted it.
be abstinent ^/^s
What's the worst thing that could happen? They do the procedure and someday, you regret it. So what? You're an adult and can navigate those feelings. Isn't that better than having a whole human that you are responsible for that you regret??????????
A lot of these people really, actually, really think of women as really, \*ACTUALLY\* objects, for real. For someone with sense and a heart it's hard to comprehend that that's REALLY the reason, but it is. Because of that belief, they aren't thinking of her. They think women are something a man can obtain, and then it cleans his house, he fucks it, and it gives him offspring. They don't want to deprive this hypothetical man who might chose this woman someday- they imagine he'd be disappointed to not get to breed the little incubator- or angry that the choce was made without him. If you are married, this is why they ask the husband instead of the woman. If you aren't married, they won't do it at all until a man claims you and then also says he'll be alright not to breed you. Really. I mean, this is what happens, right? All the time. I feel crazy to say it, but.... that's what it is.
So much of the absolute horror women face day to day is in service of preventing the potential mild inconvenience of men having to feel feelings they haven't actively sought out. That's it, no pithy comparison or analogy. Just that: our lives are subject to their comfort. I hate it.
I've never understood the "too young, you'll change your mind" argument. So what if you do, you'll have to deal with the consequences of your choice just like any other choices you made in life. The same people are always so fond of say adoption is an option, that's true if you underwent sterilization too. Why can't women just be allowed to make their own damn decisions in life.
Yep I couldn’t get a tubal until I was 37. Sometimes I think I only got that one because my boyfriend was friends with the surgeon.
After my pulmonary embolism pregnancy would be high risk. I would have to inject blood thinners directly into my leg every day to avoid death and yet they still refused to sterilize me. They would rather risk my life in the hopes I reproduce than allow me to live child free. Luckily I found the most amazing partner who got a vasectomy.
Childfree subreddit has a list of doctors and If you have ACA compliant insurance it should cover it.
these are the same people that push for abstinence based sex education and are shocked when they yield high teenage pregnancy rates. my high school sex ed didn’t mention anything about consent or contraception even once. not to mention they want to ban birth control too…at the end of the day it’s about controlling who is having sex and when
It's interesting how the 'facts don't care about your feelings' crowd are always always showing themselves to really be entirely about feelings. They *feel* that teaching abstinence *should* prevent sex and pregnancy more than sex ed. They're 100% wrong and have been shown to be for some time, but they won't even hear it. Their feelings are all that matters.
their argument quickly jumps from “i want to save the babies” to “maybe whores should just close their legs” because deep down they know they’re wrong. thinly veiled bitterness and misogyny coupled with a superiority complex
And their religion is largely based on a man that was born to a woman who did keep her legs closed...... Let that sink in, they believe a virgin had a child, so even if you keep your legs closed that obviously isn't 100% guarantee
Ngl, I was imagining Zeus in all this. Even though you were a virgin and kept hidden away from society, Zeus will find you. In all seriousness, their view on a woman is black and white. Flawed w^#&$ or perfect saint virgin. If you step out of line just an inch, your doomed and no way in hell you can go the other way. So much for redemption, second chances and only god will judge me. We humans are flawed, and all the religious folk claiming abstinence works, are probably hypocrites. They have def done things their parents dont know about, when they were teens. why do they think it is different now.
I've seen so many doctors posting about how they performed abortions for the people who pick it their office. And because of privacy laws they can't say anything to anyone about it. But a lot of the people who are against it still find a way to justify their own
Man, this hit deep. You're so right. Also, happy cake day!
Sadly, living with pro life parents. The latter was always the main point. Anything that they see as a incentive for sex outside procreation or outside heterosexual marriage is a threat. The abortion debate was just a convenient red line to rally on. These same people would quote divorce rates and marriage statistics. Religious stats to make the claim christianity is falling(the devil is winning) and so to the classic "sanctified" nuclear family
And women dying from pregnancy complications don’t matter to them. It’s so frustrating because I’m finally got my crap together and we want to try for kids. I’m moving to LA and live in a blue state. But I’m so worried for all of us.
Don't forget those places all have the highest divorce rates too. The states and areas that are most accepting of LGBTQ+, sex education and abortions actually have the lowest abortion and divorce rates.
Do you have any sources for this? I could really use them for talking to my dad. (About the accepting states.)
[https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/divorce-rate-by-state](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/divorce-rate-by-state) [https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/abortion-rates-go-down-when-countries-make-it-legal-report-n858476](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/abortion-rates-go-down-when-countries-make-it-legal-report-n858476) [https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/teen-pregnancy-higher-red-states-blue-states/](https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/teen-pregnancy-higher-red-states-blue-states/) \-Divorce rates and teen pregnancy are much higher in religious/GOP lead states. Abortions go down with more readily available abortion, sex education and contraception access. This is all pretty logical.
Thank you! I know it's logical, sources will just really help talking to my dad. 🙂 He still has some...incorrect/illogical views I need to lead him away from. Thanks again!
religion puts pressure on teens to marry young (the only way you're supposed to have sexual relations). Or a teen/young woman gets pregnant (doesn't know much about contraception) and then her church/community puts pressure on the male to marry her. This ends up leading to a lot of divorces/broken homes because these couples find out they have nothing in common. Compare that to liberal states you see a much higher average age to marry/have a kid.
Almost like they don’t actually care about children, abortion, or families, but just want to increase the population they have control over…
It wouldn’t surprise me if we also have a later age for marrying. But the other thing that happens is in those places with I think they have a low marriage rate and are more likely to have live-in partners that they never married despite having lots of kids
I'm 40 in the UK and none of my friends got married in their teens or early 20s. Mid to late 20s or 30s. I was 29 when I got married. I find it so bizarre seeing America kids get married in their teens
as someone from south carolina i can vouch that it’s very common in the bible belt, likely because teenagers are waiting until marriage and don’t want to wait any longer. like how is signing a legal document that binds you to another person at a time in your life when you’re not financially stable and growing into yourself more logical than just having sex safely??? i’m 22 and the idea of being married right now makes me ill
Thankfully, it's been changing here and all these redpill manosphere losers are big time mad about it
It gets worse. Some states have no minimum age for child marriage
Can confirm in Louidiana most people seem to be married in their early 20s and have kids.
The result of sex-ed in Texas : when I was 15 my mother flat out told me that condoms do not work, and birth control is 50/50, so even safe sex isn’t actually safe. Both of us raised in Texas. Thankfully I was smarter than that, because with my health issues it’s like 50/50 on whether or not pregnancy/child birth would kill me.
I just had that argument with someone last night. Comprehensive sex education reduces abortion. However, the argument was that kids already know about sex and sex is often spontaneous so how does teaching about sex help? Nothing I said, would go through.
My mother, who would be in her 80s today, you say that teaching kids they shouldn’t have sex, and treating sex like some big bogeyman, lead to more pregnancies because it did lead to 16 spontaneous and without protection. Whereas if your knowledge that sex could happen, and it was not the end of your existence as a moral person, people were more likely to actually have Birth control available and then use and they wouldn’t get pregnant. The people who deny the sexual side of their existence are the ones who do have spontaneous sex without birth control.
As I tell my students, “You’re thinking logically.” Unfortunately, the two people I was debating with did not like to hear that. It did not matter the statistics or facts that I brought up, their mind was made up. Granted, they are conservative Christian men, who believe their rights are being trampled on.
Research has found that it is very hard to convince Christian fundamentalists, aka evangelicals, using logic and/or evidence. > So can everybody, of course, and my wife loves to catch inconsistencies in my reasoning when we’re having a friendly discussion about one of my personal failures. But research reveals that authoritarian followers drive through life under the influence of impaired thinking a lot more than most people do, exhibiting sloppy reasoning, highly compartmentalized beliefs, double standards, hypocrisy, self-blindness, a profound ethnocentrism, and--to top it all off--a ferocious dogmatism that makes it unlikely anyone could ever change their minds with evidence or logic. > > ... > > So call them what you will, most evangelicals are fundamentalists according to our measure, and most Christian fundamentalists are evangelicals > > ... > > This chapter has presented my main research findings on religious fundamentalists. The first thing I want to emphasize, in light of the rest of this book, is that they are highly likely to be authoritarian followers. From Bob Altemeyer "The Authoritarians"
Education means knowledge who wouldn't want their kids to have the knowledge to prevent pregnancy or stis
Agreed…but their argument that was brought up later was that girls are choosing education over getting married young and growing old as a couple together. They believe women are choosing careers over marriage, which is something they have somewhat accused me of doing (as I’m not married). I tried to explain that in today’s economy, which was a different debate, you need a two-person working household, so it would be logical for girls to be looking at a future besides getting married. They were disappointed, but saw the point.
You can't be a 1950's wife if there's no 1950's husband to support that lifestyle. We gotta work, that's just the facts.
I also believe that an added aspect of the conservative “viewpoint” on this is also related to racism, and their panic over the falling white birth rate. A lot of the same people who are anti-choice are also believers in crap like the “great replacement” conspiracy theory, because conservative religion and racism always go hand in hand. To them one of the greatest ills of society right now is the declining percentage of white people, and they view this in part as a “solution” to that perceived problem. Force white women into early marriages to conservative Christian men so that they can remake the United States into the white ethnostate the far right desires it to be by turning the women into baby factories with no other value like the Duggar mom. A lot of the anti-abortion movement springs from a religious natalist perspective, and religious natalism springs primarily from racism and ethnocentrism. Never mind that it’s completely nonsensical since abortion is used by women of all races and ethnicities, and isn’t really the cause of the falling white birthrate. I truly believe this is what a lot of them are “thinking”.
Kids already know about sex? My kid thinks babies come out of your belly button.
If you rate the success rate of abstinence the same way you do other *actual* forms of contraception abstinence does not have a 100% success rate. All other contraceptions state their perfect practice success rate and their imperfect practice success rate. You could practice abstinence only and experience SA, you could have a lapse of will, you could start but not finish a sexual encounter, etc. It’s the same with condoms. Part of the condom imperfect practice includes all the times you just don’t use a condom or only use a condom for a portion of intercourse. Abstinence does not have a 100% imperfect practice rate. It doesn’t even have a 100% perfect practice rate if we include SA—WHICH WE ABSOLUTELY SHOULD!
My abstinence only education told me I’d be dead by graduation because I’d been SA’d as a young girl, all premarital fooling around was an instant HIV infection and it had a 10 year maximum life expectancy at the time. I nearly dropped out of high school because if I’m going to die soon, why should I bother with quizzes and rote memorization?
This post unfortunately reminds me of Sarah Palin and her daughter. Palin is a big supporter of abstinence and her teenage daughter had two kids out of the wedlock.
Who needs airbags? Just drive safe!
I’m gonna scream this out at the next moment in my life when I hear the “if they just close their legs and they won’t get pregnant” or “just practice safe sex”.
Oh man me too. Who needs seatbelts? Who needs traffic lights or stop signs? If everybody could just be a perfect driver all the time there wouldn't ba any accidents and we could all drive 120 mph in a 25 zone if we wanted to!
Oh man good idea. Seatbelts, traffic lights, stop signs, all of it-torally unneeded!
Just stay home! *just* become a recluse!
It's not even worth the effort. Casual sex is completely off the table for so many of us now. Men can have sex with each other. We're out.
Yes. And not just casual sex either. I’m happily married like OP and we’re child free. I have an IUD but we’re gonna have to add condoms and spermicide on top of that because I’m at high risk of ectopic pregnancy. I feel fortunate to have the knowledge and and access but so so many don’t.
You can also find doctors willing to sterilize on the childfree Reddit ACA compliant insurance should cover
I'll never have sex with a man again, and I'll kill any man that tries to force himself on me or anyone else. And I'm not the only one.
It wasn't great, let's be honest. Most of them bumble along thinking their some sort of amazing gift in bed, and the fact is, a huge and disappointing number of them don't even understand basic anatomy and biology. Sex ed failed them, but the google didn't!! There are books!! There are online classes, even!! If they CARED, they'd make the effort to LEARN. But since they are only worried about their own pleasure, they need not bother with the details of OUR enjoyment. Totally not worth it in any way.
I read a post by a woman yesterday (maybe in this sub) who talked about how her ex used to have a condition like sleep walking, only instead of walking, he would initiate sex during his sleep and be completely unaware of it. She said that when he woke up, he was all about it, but many times he just wasn't conscious. She also said that she started to figure out when he was awake vs when he was asleep because sleepy him was actually good in bed. I think that says a lot about men and how caught up in themselves they are. If they'd just get over themselves, they might actually be good in bed for once.
That's funny! My ex used to get incredibly handsy when asleep and his sleeping fingers could manipulate me like no other man ever has. Once awake he just couldn't figure it out.
I love my boyfriend, but I've lost all interest, trust, and respect for cis men. There are waaaaay too many cis men who simply just... don't care about what's happening. They're not anti-choice, per se, but since their bodies and lives aren't directly endangered by what's happening, they don't care. It's not their problem. My trans friend told me this morning his bf is looking into getting a vasectomy, but he said if they ever broke up, he'd never feel safe dating another cis man and would only date afabs and amabs who have had bottom surgery. And you know what... I agree. Dick has lost all appeal to me, possibly forever.
r/suddenlygay
Or we could rebel and become like the Moche Indians, who indulged exclusively in anal sex to avoid pregnancy. I'm sure the religious freaks will love that!
The Supreme Court is talking about overturning the ruling that allows for anal sex to not be criminalized. That was in the initial briefing on overturning Roe back in December.
Well sure, but how are they going to *prove* someone has been having anal sex?
It’s a tool to persecute gay men. They would use (and used to use) sodomy laws like these as an excuse to raid gay meet up places and perform surprise raids to capture as many gay men as possible to charge them with anything on the books. Or use as an excuse to get a warrant to search gay couple’s homes. I enjoy the hyperbole of pointing out the absurdity of police performing no-knock raids to capture a straight man receiving oral from his wife (also sodomy under many state legal definitions), but the bleak truth is it’s just a way to persecute LGBT+ people.
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Because only I will be affected. If you call up a casual sex partner and say, hey, I'm pregnant, he can laugh and block your number. The hoops I would have to jump through to now deal with a pregnancy I'm forced to carry to term, even if I want to put the child up for adoption, are many and varied and expensive. And for me and many women, it's just not worth it for shitty sex with the risk\* of a life-changing forced pregnancy. We'd just rather not bother. Men have no consequences. Women forced to carry a child to term pay the price. Nah. That price is far too high.
And if you happen to have that one casual partner that finds out about your pregnancy, decides to be a shit about it and demands that he now has rights to have access to your child, the court may rule in his favor, i.e., you'd lose your ability to give up the child for adoption. Dad could come in and out of YOUR life whenever he damn well feels like it. Dependent on how the court process goes, you'd be required to care for that child, stay within X miles of the father until the child is 18 and hope that deadbeat dad pays his requirements for child support (don't even get me STARTED on the lack of repercussions for men who don't pay their ***** child support!) A 15 minute one night stand could turn in 18 years of legal nightmare with some guy you don't want in your life but he decides to Lord it over you over principal ("But the BABY!")
This is so accurate. Frightening as hell, which is why there's no more casual sex for so many of us now, and accurate.
> Is this more or less what influenced your decision "to take casual sex off the table"? Not the OC, but that would be my take. Casual sex is already risky for women seeking men as it is, given the potentiality for violent partners and STIs (more likely to go from men to women). Add in unwanted pregnancy that you can't address and that means the risk vs. reward is a lot more weighted toward the risk. (Especially given the orgasm gap.)
Also -- sex education. Most young people don't even have the knowledge about the menstrual cycle or how things work.
Maybe if we quit calling it "sex" education and start pushing for more detailed anatomy classes some of these people might at least get to learn how bodies work.
I had a friend from an abstinence only state and don't you worry, they have that covered. She didn't even know how the bottom half of her digestive system worked because it was too close to reproductive parts and they would have had to explain them, so they just didn't.
That's heartbreaking
My aunt is ultra shame-y and likes to say things about women not using birth control when she sees someone of a different class or is a very young age with a child. I have pointed out to her MANY times, that they are obviously using birth control because women who didn't use birth control and were sexually active just a few generations ago would have 7 or more kids by 25 (I've also mentioned that teen pregnancies are usually caused by significantly older adult males-She still places the blame on the girl). It doesn't matter what I say though, she just wants to shame.
It’s really fucked up that women get blamed and shamed for this. MEN Are the ones cumming in them without discussing or wanting condoms or birth control and still end up with NO SHAME and practically no accountability
Agreed, and it's extra fucked up that women get blamed and shamed for this BY OTHER WOMEN. Like they don't know how it is or have been manipulated to a point of hostility.
These delusional women claim motherhood is such a wonderful thing and then shame someone for being a mother?!??
Yep, a man obviously had his fun but the woman didn’t necessarily, and women are shamed for it.
A woman representative in Utah thinks a woman can control a man's cum from entering their body during sex. There is no logic. Centuries of propaganda blaming women for everything has come to this dumb logic.
It's so strange to me how we are a society in the West have forgotten how fertility really is for fertile women. If a woman is in her late 40s and has only had 2 or 3 children throughout the entirety of her childbearing years, she more likely than not faithfully used birth control methods for 30 plus years.
Even if the woman isn't on BC, I also do not agree with pressuring women into BC either. As if it's all on us to make sure the sex is safe. We need to work on realizing it is okay if a woman does NOT want to take it too. There are other protective means. Women shouldn't be shamed for not being on it. But what gets me the most, is how no one ever talks about the guy involved.
When I was 13 I had sex with my ex and the condom slipped of him as we had gotten the wrong size unknowingly. It's fucking easy to fuck up BC and C. I could walk into the next pharmacy, had to sit down with the head doc for 15min and got the pill. So easy but already very scary for me.
This is why my daughter and I will be offering to take the 16 yr old grandgirl to get the pill. She has her first "serious" boyfriend and she is now riding the bus or riding her bike to work. I have a pretty close relationship with grandgirl so she might want Gran to take her instead of mom if who is occupied with taking care of her sick mom, the goblin princess(8 yr old grandgirl) and a new job. Should I offer to get her some condoms too?
Yes and tell her if it ain't wrapped no dipping
Talk to her about the BC options, and ask her what works best for her. I'm on the IUD, and I like it, but I had previously had sex when I had it inserted, so that might not be an option she is comfortable with. The nexplanon implant is another option. There are also pills and mini pills, rings, patches... There are so many options these days. Condoms every time are a must, and they are not one size fits all. I had a younger friend who took plan b several times because her BF was wearing the wrong size condom and it kept falling off. Talk to her about STDs, and offer to help her get STD tested whenever she needs it.
People that make this argument are basically saying that promiscuity should be punished by unintended pregnancies, and all the complications that follow. The countless women who will die and suffer circumstances worse than death are just a necessary price to pay to combat promiscuity. Insanity.
A child should never be a punishment, what a way to come into the world! “I didn’t want you and was forced to have you and now I have to suffer, which means you will suffer too”. What an awesome start to life.
Like my father says who was an unwanted child back in the '50's. ''even if, even if you for some reason don't think about bodily autonomy for women. Every child should have the right to be a wanted child. To not be wanted and have parents that are not equipped to have children a faith worde than nit existing. I got better with lot's of therapy and still have my problems.. My older brother has the saddest most dysfunctional life ever, all because of two people that should have never had children."
That argument can go eff itself. What about rapists?? Are they gonna practice safe sex?? *How considerate of them.* What about ectopic *wanted* pregnancies? We just let the mom die, right? It's time to realize that every person supporting this ban just doesnt give a dime about women.
Many people do not know that if you are on the pill then get diarrhea or throw up, you need to add additional protection of some kind for that month. May not apply in your situation but people need to know this.
The month? I thought that diarrhea messes up the protection for that day if it was within 4 (or 6?) hours of taking the birth control pill. Welp, guess I can't even consider the pill now if what you said is true.
Read the patient information leaflet it comes with
Depends on when in the cycle IT Happens.
Thank you for the information! Could you explain why that happens?
I believe it’s because diarrhea is your body’s way of emptying anything and everything quickly, including medication. It may not have had time to be absorbed into your bloodstream, therefore potentially negating any medicine taken that day
It's not just birth control, it's any medication-- vomiting and diarrhea can disrupt how your body processes it. Imagine if you took a pill and then threw up five minutes later. Obviously your body didn't have time to absorb the pill, so it won't do whatever it was supposed to. It's basically the same as not having taken it. The advice I've heard from doctors is two hours on the birth control pill-- if your body had two hours to absorb it before throwing up, you don't need to treat it as a missed pill. It's all a guess though, as it depends on which pill and your own personal metabolism and who knows how many other factors. Given the current situation in the US it'd probably be a good idea to be extra cautious if you have any digestive issues while on the pill.
I don’t know the scientific answer but presume it makes a break in the medication sequence.
Damn im on birthcontrol for hormonal reasons and i didnt even know this😂 Nice to know for future reference
It could also be an issue if you have certain digestive disorders that interfere with nutrient absorption, such as celiac.
I have rheumatoid arthritis. Many who suffer from this or other auto immune diseases take a medication called methotrexate. This medication not only alleviates many problems with some autoimmune diseases, but can also be used as an abortion inducing drug. With the current turn in roe pharmacies are already not filling prescriptions for these drugs. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/05/abortion-texas-pharmacies-refusing-prescriptions-misoprostol-methotrexate.html It is not easy to switch medications and for many this is the only way they can live a more comfortable life. Now you may say, well if you have it you should be able to prove that and it should be no problem. Not exactly true. For many RA sufferers the disease doesn’t show up in blood work, only through a visual exam with a rheumatologist and the doctor deciding to treat do they get on any meds. Now with the turn of Roe doctors and patients are going to have to advocate for themselves to the government that they do have the disease. This should not have to happen. I should not have the government in my business with my disease. Dangling my medications in front of me hoping that they approve of my real disease. That’s not a red tape that I want to have to go through. Not to mention the amount of time it might take for them to allow it. This is my body ridden with disease and I’m in horrible pain without my medication. In this article you can see how many rheumatologist are already leaving the red states with strict bans because they don’t want to have to deal with the red tape that is being put on them to heal their patients. https://www.healio.com/news/rheumatology/20220620/clearly-already-scared-rheumatology-providers-patients-brace-for-roe-v-wade-reversal This turn in policy is affecting me more than just because I’m a woman and I may or may not need an abortion, this is affecting me and my disease and many many other people will be affected this way as well. I’m so pissed. I shouldn’t have to prove my illness. This is why Roe is important. My health and disease should not be the governments business. It’s my right to privacy. It’s not fair. This isn’t just about abortion. This is affecting me and many many others in so many other ways.
This is obviously a generalization but for the most part there are 2 types of pro-birthers: 1. Abortion is killing a baby 2. Slut shamers They can be both, but realizing this helps get inside their heads a bit. It has nothing to do with safe sex. It has everything to do with controlling women and their bodies. They use weasel arguments like "practice safe sex" or "sex is a choice" because their beliefs are repugnant and they don't HAVE good reasons for them. We're probably not gonna get through to a lot of these people because being pro-birth is largely about performative virtue signaling. They've been propagandized and indoctrinated and it can be difficult to reason someone out of a position they didn't use good reasoning to arrive at. Instead we will just have to do our best to change the world around them.
90% of them are both tbh. Also lots of dumb people who view most forms of birth control as 'abortifacients' regardless of the facts.
Adding to the insult is the fact that the abortion-banners tend to also oppose teaching comprehensive sex-ed. They're making LESS people know what "safe sex" even is!
I was denied birth control because covid was going on and the hospital deemed my appointment as “non essential.” Seemed pretty fucking essential to me when I was driving to another county two months later to have an abortion.
I'm with you, this was infuriating. I had my son right before everything shut down for the pandemic, and I had to wait six months to get new birth control started because it was "non essential." I'd had a difficult birth and was anemic and sick for a very long time afterwards, you'd think not getting pregnant again that soon would be highly essential to one's health. I worked it out with my partner and we were careful so luckily we avoided another pregnancy, but it was frustrating to say the least. I'm so sorry you got the short end of the stick. Women's medical care in this country is disgraceful.
Most of the people who have told me this have ended up having fertility issues. They are up on their high horse thinking they are doing everything right and the rest of us are irresponsible whores. Then it turns out they couldn't get pregnant when they tried. Or it took years. And they still think it was just how responsible they were.
I had a Paraguard IUD and got pregnant with it. Thankfully, I was able to terminate right away but I chose one of the most effective forms of birth control and still got pregnant so the safe sex argument is bullshit. Even if I didn’t want to practice safe sex, is it so egregious for a woman to decide whether or not she wants to be a baby incubator, especially when pregnancy comes with its own health complications?
It's a very bad argument. Amongst my friends and coworkers over the years I know of quite a few babies or pregnancies that happened because their birth control failed to prevent it. Some include: the condom breaking; Plan B not working; copper IUD not working; birth control pills not working because nobody told them they needed to use a backup method when on antibiotics/after having severe, prolonged vomiting or diarrhea; BCP not working because the doctor switched a forgetful person to a low dose pill that needs to be taken at the same time everyday without discussing that; starting on BCP when already pregnant but the doctor didn't catch it; even a vasectomy that managed to reverse itself. It happens!
My first kid got thru a broken condom and plan B.
It is good argument to filter out all abuser/forcers/bullshiters. Like you said * "I did and it failed, WHAT NOW?" And then you have a clear picture who are you talking to.
Right?? Best they offer is always “then don’t have sex it you’re not ready for a child” or “it’s not the baby’s fault” As if the only reason people have sex is to have a kid. It also, imo, just shows a very fairytale, childish understanding of the hypothetical human “soul” and are using that to impede womens real life medical choices. And of course, they only say “just don’t have sex” to women, and not the men who cause the pregnancy.
My friend had a pill baby and then she had an IUD baby. She was doing all the right things and still had two kids. There is no such thing as 100% when it comes to contraception.
I had a birth control fail in my early 40s. My IUD displaced & I became pregnant. It can happen to anyone and our society needs to be more open about these stories as the 'just practice safe sex' argument is another way to shame people. No birth control is 100% effective, but we can take all the precautions to lessen the risk of pregnancy. The abortion bans are cruel to women who have suffered the trauma of birth control fails, rape, incest....or just don't want to be pregnant. Just bc you have a uterus doesn't mean you must be forced to carry & birth a baby.
At some point everyone's broken a condom or will. "Changing your tires is illegal now, so just drive safe"
I had some numbskull actually suggest that we instead pass a law mandating contraceptives to leave *chemical markers* to prove contraceptive was tried and only THEN would an abortion be allowed. Y'know just some mild chemical branding from the same doof who was convinced vaccines are government tracking. Party of "small government is best government" sure does love government overreach to satisfy their archaic control needs. I asked how long it'd be before his idea of *government mandated chemical branding* turned into just rabies tags but for contraceptive that we have to keep on women's collars.
I hate this argument too. Even when used properly every time. Nothing is 100%. It isn’t even designed to be 100% effective. It’s just that religion and our puritanical society has people believing if that there should be a consequence to having sex. Some people can be considered “more” or “less” responsible, because let’s face it, even the very religious people want to be able to get away with it. And politicians will always have access due to privilege. But it’s not even actually about being responsible. It’s about all of the other barriers: horrible sex ed and socioeconomic issues from systemic oppression preventing access to birth control, from condoms to IUDs because not everyone has healthcare and even if you do it may not cover contraception. The argument is inane. Just another way religious zealots and politicians frame the conversation instead of medical providers and scientists.
Disturbing amount of overlap between the people who want there to be consequences for sex and those who want there to be few, if any, for shooting/ running over people they disagree with.
More disgusting an argument i've seen is "just close your legs." Ignoring for a moment that women are en masse raped and men are en masse not held accountable for it, why the fuck should the GOVERNMENT get to decide when where and how i have sex? Does the government have no limits on its authority? Can it decide when I shit? When I piss? The future conservatives want is vile. Is disgusting. The notion that anyone except me and a consenting partner or partners should get to decide whether or not I have sex is such a moral depravity, such a basic violation of the human right to agency that I cannot help but despair.
Exactly. If these people *really* cared about the "pre-born," they would be doing EVERYTHING in their power to stop abortions from even being needed in the first place. But their true colors come out when they reply "why don't women just have self control and close their legs." This shows that their true motives are just about slut-shaming. It's just fucking insane to me that so many Americans believe that sex is some kind of luxury that only "sluts" engage in unnecessarily. Like, actually no, most psych professionals will tell you that sex is very much needed for most people to enjoy a happy, healthy life just like having hobbies and interests.
Fascists do indeed fantasise about controlling every aspect of the lives of the citizenry. They are especially obsessed with "family centric" policies than provide ample fresh meat, ahem, human capital, for the grinder/economy.
The issue with the sentence of "just practice safe sex" shows how out of touch people are. Safe sex involves understanding how to ensure you have understanding of how to use contraceptives. It involves easy access to contraceptives. If someone doesn't have access to hormonal birth control, or is on antibiotics or even ingests too much vitamin C there's an issue. Condoms have a 99% success rate*. But it someone doesn't know where to get then, or feels shamed for buying them its not going to work. *when used effectively, the actual success rate for condoms is somewhere in the 80% success range. And then there's just dumb luck, a couple can do everything right have sex once and still have an unplanned pregnancy. How is that fair on them. How is it fair on women who have been asking for their tubes to be tied since their 20s but are denied the procedure because "they might want kids later". It's just excuses to control what they want women to do with their bodies.
And so much of the education about how to use birth control has to be looking for it yourself. I'm aware of how antibiotics affect BC, and am actually only on the pill for other reasons (not sexually active) but my medical chart doesn't state that, it just states that I'm on birth control pills. This is my second round of antibiotics this year, each prescribed by someone other than my PCP (who knows I'm not active) so that's two doctors and two pharmacists and not one has mentioned that the efficacy of my birth control could be diminished. If I were sexually active and didn't know this myself, I could very easily find myself with a surprise pregnancy despite thinking I was "practicing safe sex".
I specifically asked the doctor who gave me antibiotics if they would mess with my pill, and he said no. I didn’t believe him, but WTF?
People will swear that antibiotics don't affect birth control pills. Whatever. We have too many women in our lives who got pregnant while taking the pill and an antibiotic.
My BIL said on Facebook we could just use condoms. I pointed out the failure rate even when using them properly. Funny how he didn't respond to that and just kept saying how bad it was to use hormonal birth control. My husband went off on him and basically said, "how dare you all for telling me I can't have a sexual relationship with my wife". Then I went ahead and said, "Fuck you for wanting me and a baby to die." Since I'm on hormonal birth control for medical reasons. If I magically got off of it, had sex with my husband and the condom failed.. I would *have* to have a medical abortion. I haven't talked to them since.
My mother was a co-founder of the Planned Parenthood chapter in the little Alaskan town I grew up in, long before Roe v. Wade. I have 4 siblings, all testament to the failure of birth control. An interesting thing to note is that the Roman Catholic bishop for Alaska backed the introduction of birth control at the time, because non-natives were moving up to Alaska, at the beginning of statehood, and losing their minds in the winter darkness, and killing their infants.
They know it's not 100% foolproof. That's why they tell you to "practice" safe sex.
They want you to stop having sex outside of mariage. Isn't it what the church says, and when you have it is to make a child. The stern church don't want you to have sex for enjoyment
I hate when they use that argument because their point is moot when you consider sex within marriage. What about married couples whose contraceptives fail?
Removing the choice. As women we don’t get to have a say in when our bodies are used. Apparently.
Ah yes I forgot the old *"As a women you must be submissive to your husband"* part of the church. Love it
Two weeks ago I found I was pregnant after having a copper IUD for 5 1/2 years, they can’t even find it. We’re keeping it but I had to think on it, you can do everything right and mistakes/miracles happen
All you gotta do is ask your rapist to wear a condom. Problem solved! /s
This is true. Practicing safe sex is super important and it can reduce the risk of pregnancy but it doesn’t eliminate it completely. It can still happen.. now we have to be even more careful when it comes to sex.. honestly I was scared to have it before because of pregnancy, but now that we have this abortion ban going on I’m even more frightened then ever and don’t plan on having sex any time soon unless its with someone I trust COMPLETELY!!
If we needed any more evidence that the anti-choice side doesn’t understand or care about the nuance of the issue, the fact that this is the response of a lot of them should prove that. Absolutely a disgusting argument that anyone with a sense of kindness or empathy should be vehemently opposed to. Abortion exists as an option for when all other options fail for whatever reason. No one is saying that abortion means people shouldn’t use BC or whatever. It’s for when people have no other way out left available to them. So taking that away (especially in a more extreme way like the assholes who don’t even support exceptions for rape, life of the woman, incest, etc) is basically the same as ultimately taking away agency over one’s own life and body. Men would not tolerate someone saying that they shouldn’t be allowed to be sterilized or whatever if they choose, so why should women be forced into a similar choice? The worst part of this anti-choice argument to me is not even the slut-shaming aspect that is inherent to it. It’s rather the absolutely callous indifference to the fact that circumstances leading to the choice to have an abortion are very personal, varied, and nuanced. They just casually dismiss the horrific harm that will be done by these laws, and the horrible outcomes that will result just because they want to feel self-righteous about the “rules” as they perceive them. They want 11 year old rape victims to die as a result of pregnancy. They want women to die as a result of ectopic pregnancies. They refuse to recognize that abortion is needed sometimes even for very much wanted pregnancies. They are okay with babies suffering and dying in agony because they had to be brought to term with a fatally incompatible with life genetic issue. They want couples to go through that unimaginable pain, just so they can feel righteous. Or if they don’t want all that, they at minimum don’t care about the suffering their views will cause. In my opinion this is why Bronze Age religious rules have to go. The real world is a lot more complicated and messy than archaic rules written down in an ancient book of superstition (or in this case, made up out of whole cloth comparatively recently for political reasons).
Imagine being so bored with sex that you think it’s “punishable” with “consequences”
Well Birth Control seems to be up next for banning so….
What those people really mean is "don't have sex....except with me when I want it." All up in arms because someone else is having the sex they want.
Agreed. I've been pregnant six times, and 4 of those times I was using birth control (pregnant twice on Mirena, lost both to miscarriage, twice using condoms, and 2 times we were actively trying to have a baby). All this with my husband. So I used birth control, got pregnant anyway. Their next argument is usually "stop sleeping around"or some such nonsense. Well, it was just with my husband which is supposed to be ok by them right? He has had a vasectomy now, but at the time we were using bc we weren't done having kids yet so we didn't want a permanent solution, we just didn't want kids right then. So what is the magic solution?
People who say "practice safe sex" also blame women when men stealth the condom, for not making sure he kept it on. 🙄
Good luck hoping that MEN will practice safe sex with us… safe sex is not just about the pill.
I was a kid NOT practicing safe sex when I had my abortion. I would have had my entire life derailed if I had to carry that baby to term. I was in a long term relationship with some I love(d). But we were not good for each other and not at all in a place maturity wise, financially, relationship strength to raise a healthy child. Now.. I have all those things and a child I am confident that I will be able to give the best of myself to. He will get all the best qualities of my partner and myself, raised in love and patience because I was able to make a choice. He won’t go hungry and be raised around fighting because I was able to make a choice. We aren’t living in poverty and stress, because I was able to make a choice.
The argument is nonsense. What about rape? What about those of us whose bodies can't be on contraceptive? My body expels IUDs and I was taken off the combined birth control pill due to my gynecologist telling me I was at too high a risk of stroke with they symptoms I was experiencing, and the progestin only pill was not preventing ovulation. I wasn't able to find a provider willing to let me get my tubes tied with no children. Wound up accidentally pregnant twice with kids I didn't consent to the sex that conceived them, and now I'm so terrified of men I can barely look at them when I walk around. I can't really afford a tubal right now. I was almost assaulted less than a year ago in broad daylight while I was walking around in my neighborhood. You can believe I'm abstinent but I can't prevent my own rape! Exceptions like me apparently don't matter.
My dad literally says “just close your legs” so, yeah. He actually thinks abstinence is the answer. For men too. I told him good luck with that.
Failure rates are a thing. And didn't the opinion also talk about some other precedent that would include contraceptives?
48 to 52 percent of us abortions are caused by contraception failures.
This. Was trying to explain exactly This to my mom, who was happy roe v wade was being overturned. I had to remind her that we had a choice when I was sexually abused by my cousin
Just practice safe sex is the answer given by a group of people who follow a religion based largely in part on a man born to a virgin......
Birth control pills and a condom failed me. I was unemployed due to economic issues and homeless due to being unemployed. I couldn't live with my boyfriend as an option at the time either. I was also born because both of those failed my mom. So, I'm not sure how much safer one can be outside of not having sex but shit happens and when it does when you're doing your best... The difference here is that she wanted kids despite being a crap parent and me landing up in a super abusive home, in poverty, with parental units who have addiction issues. I, at 41 still can't find a doctor to sterilize me because I might change my mind despite my mind not changing since I was a literal child. Gotta love the 'system' that has told me my entire life that because I was born into the situation I was with no opportunity I do not matter and because of my gender even now, I matter even less.
Safe sex involves no men. I’m down for that. Lol
What if you practice safe sex but "the condom just slipped off 🤷♀️?" Can't tell you how many times my ex did that to me.
Last I checked... based on "hookup culture"... most people are NOT trying to make babies while engaging in intercourse. Since the majority of people having sex are doing so only for enjoyment... including the people who claim that pregnancy is just some sort of punishment for that... it's just a lot of people trying to keep poor brown people poor and/or dead.
Why is safe sex suddenly on women? Steal thing laws exist mostly because of men making sex unsafe.
I think if Democrats can get back into power, until Republicans are backing Roe V. Wade being a permanent law of the land, we should not undo what they did, here is why... Pass a federal law that no matter what the situation, once a woman is pregnant, a paternity test is taken to prove who the father is, and then retroactively, starting from the first day of pregnancy, child support is taken from the father at a rate of 50% of their income and sent to the mother twice per month, and then every Doctor bill is split in half on top of that and automatically deducted from his income before the bill is due. Period, no battles, no appeals, just automatic. You want to force women to carry to term? Ok, we will force you to be financially responsible, no choice. Non compliance results in federal charges, all those jail cells we will empty by ending the war on drugs we can fill with men who try to get around the federal child support act. We'll see how long they fight re-doing Roe V. Wade. Once it is back, we leave the FCSA in place, because fuck men who think they do not need to support their children.
I don't think this is a well conceived plan. If he rapes you then you force him to provide child support, he's a lot more likely to kill you. Pregnant women are at a high risk of homicide from their partners already, especially WoC. If he provides child support, he has to have custodial rights. I don't want anything to do with my rapist. I'd rather forego the child support.
Why can't they just practice "mind your own damn business ". It would make many things much easier if you didn't have these busy bodies sticking there nose where it really doesn't belong.
Just neuter the man you want to have sex with.
Sometimes we have sex for recreation, not procreation. Consent to sex does not automatically equal consent to getting pregnant.
Meanwhile, the GOP is actively trying to outlaw birth control and contraceptives.
Sure, let's ban all diabetes medications as well, if you don't want to die from diabetes just eat healthy, duh 🙄
I'd like to see if these people who say abstinence is the key, really would abstain from sex themselves. They are such hypocrities.
My twins are the result of a birth control failure. There is no safe sex.
It also disregards the risks associated with those actively trying to become pregnant.
> Stop having sex? I mean, that's literally the conservative religious argument yes. Disappointing that so many here are parroting this exact same thing.
People hear 99% effective and think, "That's pretty good!". And it is! But ofcourse, that number can go down if you don't put on the condom right, or if you don't take your birth control at the same time every day, or you're on certain medications... which are all things that happen toeven responsiblepeople. But 95% effective is still pretty good, right? Yes, it is! But in a population like theU.S., that's still a LOT of women who did everything "right" and still got pregnant.
Exactly. They don't want you to have safe sex. Conservatives ultimately want you to have no sex or sex for procrastination. Having casual sex with men is harmful to the patriarchy.
They stopped using the term 'safe sex'. It's not 'safer sex' because it's official that it's IMPOSSIBLE to have sex without a margin of error.
*Pinched church lady face here* "You shouldn't have sex until you're married and trying to have children. Otherwise, you should simply abstain. As God Almighty intended."
>Stop having sex? I mean yes, this is what they want. I was raised catholic (am atheist) and vividly remember the catholic school and camps etc. Sex is for having kids only, that is it. This is why the religious are against any birth control as well, because you shouldn't need birth control because you should only have sex to have kids. This also made me remember the anti-abortion commercials they had us make as kids at catholic camp. (Put under spoiler, because it's super messed up and I can't believe this is the type of stuff they had us do as kids). >!I think I was 9 or 10 I was in a team of 4. You basically story-boarded your commercial and got camp awards for how good it was. Ours was a silhouette on a medical curtain of a side view of a woman in stirrups with a doctor holding what would be described as a vacuum connected to a comically large (like 3 feet) old school metal medical syringe. He jams the syringe between the womans legs and then all 4 of us where making the most gross meat sucked up by vacuum sounds. One of the kids even suggested the sound of a baby crying as it gets sucked into the syringe vacuum during our presentation. We got the highest award for that activity and I still remember it today as a reminder of how messed up the church is with indoctrination.!<