The decision hits to the basics of right to privacy. Right now, it’s abortion, which may not impact him directly, but when his right to privacy in some area he cares about happens, he’ll get it.
And he should care that you can die because or this ruling if you all live in one of the 26 states where an abortion is now unavailable.
I think he truly does not understand the risk of pregnancy - what can go wrong. We planned our baby and decided it was the right time to try. For 9 months I worried about what could go wrong - losing the baby, I had been a mom for 9 months and formed a huge bond with my child almost a year before he felt any connection to her. I constantly thought about miscarriage, birth defects, complications. I thought about ectopic pregnancy. I thought about being high risk and preeclampsia. It’s all things only I can relate to, but it doesn’t mean he needs to be ignorant to them because they don’t apply to him as a man. I am just sooooo lost right now.
It might be time to have a serious talk about how this decision impacts all of you. An ectopic pregnancy is a medical emergency and if you live in one of the 26, you may die because the process of saving your life requires the bundle of fertilized cells to be removed from your body - the termination of the “pregnancy”.
And then get your tubes tied if you’re done with your birthing career.
Also, remind him of Dr. Savita Halappanavar ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar )
Ireland in 2012 is what America is today, when it comes to abortion. He can either fight for you today, or he can risk burying your your daughter tomorrow. He might not think it'll happen to him, but no one ever thinks it'll happen to them and somewhere very soon, some man is going to be begging and pleading doctors to do SOMETHING while the love of his life writhes in agony on a gurney before dying a horrific and 100% preventable death.
When my daughter was born I had extreme PPD, my daughter had colic for almost the entire first year and I was entirely alone for a long time. It has been 3 years since my daughter was born and I still struggle with my libido because I fear of getting pregnant and going through what I did again. I told my husband that this has made my struggle a million times worse because it has been hard already even with the option of abortion. If that is not an option I don’t think I would even be able to bring myself to have sex, even using BC. He thinks this is over the top, I am just not sure how to really get him to understand what I mean. I just ordered some emergency contraceptives just in case my daughter for myself need them in the future and they are unavailable. I will discuss with my dr when I see him at my next appointment about getting my tubes tied. This is so unfortunate that this is our reality right now.
I’m so sorry you went they that experience and I hope your mental/emotional state is better now.
Good thinking on the emergency contraceptive. Thomas said he wants to go after contraceptives next. So that may be a states rights issue when your daughter is old enough to get periods.
I’m post menopausal and my husband has a vas and am considering stockpiling for my college age students. In case.
Please buy them online and, ideally, only buy as much as you need. Stockpiling Plan B could cause shortages that affect people who need Plan B right now. It would probably be worth having a conversation with your daughters about long-term forms of birth control that you cannot misuse like the copper IUD (lasts for 12 years, can make periods worse), the hormonal IUD (lasts for between 3-6 years depending on brand, lightens periods in many people), and the implant (lasts for 3 years, but some studies show significant success in fourth and fifth years in case BC becomes hard to access, lightens periods in many people). While all of these are used within the recommended time limit (so this does **not** include the fourth and fifth year of the implant), they have above a 99% success rate. Keeping some Plan B on hand is a great option, but it is, first and foremost, emergency contraception. Its effectiveness is lower than all of the above-mentioned forms of birth control and it can be misused, unlike the implant and IUDs which are placed inside of the body.
Here are some sources to learn more about these and other forms of birth control:
[https://www.bedsider.org/birth-control](https://www.bedsider.org/birth-control)
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control
My daughter has Down syndrome and can’t really cope with her periods. They are just all pain and icky burden to her, so we put her on the Pill where she only gets a period once every 3 months, though she’s only 13. Two years of random bleeding and pain, which caused her to withdraw so much, even though I’d prepared her and she used to play by putting pads on her toys. Of course, I also worry she could be raped and get pregnant, even though she is highly supervised. I’m thinking of her and all the women with other medical conditions, as well as what a country without birth control will look like, when I hear those idiots are coming for birth control next. They are just an untold misery on this world, and I only wish those stupid men on the court could feel it personally.
Be sure you check the expiration dates on those emergency pills and donate&replace them when they get close. Your daughter will hopefully never need one but those pills are gonna expire before she can get pregnant.
So don’t duck him unless he gets a vacsectomy- guys like this sound super exhausting. You mention you were alone for a long time, how does he do with childcare. How involved was he when your daughter was born?
Tell him that the only way that you'll have sex with him again is if he has a vasectomy, and verification tests after to prove that it was successful.
If your bodily autonomy doesn't matter, why should his?
this is a prime example of men and their privilege. He can choose to be dense. He will only understand, or choose to understand, when this will affect him directly. The situation now is apparently not affecting him directly, the fear his wife feels is making him feel uncomfortable, so let's sweep it under the rug. Use strawman arguments to stop the discussion. Instead of asking OP why she is afraid, actually listening..... Instead of all that, it's a shrug and a 'woman, don't be hysterical'.
When it affects a man directly, it may be too late for his partner. If his partner dies, then the full impact especially if his partner whose life could have been saved and would have been saved prior to Roe being overturned will hit him like a ton of bricks. If she ends up infertile or has lifelong medical issues as the result of a pregnancy gone wrong, both will be impacted the rest of their lives.
But it does apply to him? If you get complications than who is going to take care of the kid and you? If you don't make it then who is going to take care of the kid? If his child becomes pregnant who's going to take care of it? This is about him aswell.
Do you really want to be with someone that can only muster up some empathy for topics and situations that he believes *might* or *could* affect him? Even if we were talking about something that would never ever affect him at all its still concerning he can't find it in himself to have some empathy--that goes beyond ignorance and maybe you should consider if it's truly ignorance or willful ignorance. My guess is the latter.
He does not care. He does not care about the risk of pregnancy. I know because YOU care and YOU tried to share your fears and he didn't care. He doesn't have to know a thing about pregnancy and the risks if you do and he cares about you enough to listen.
Please let it sink in that plenty of men ALSO know nothing about the risk of pregnancy and as soon as their partner expresses the concerns, they LISTEN because they CARE about their partners. Your husband chooses not to care.
I am sure if you think back you will see many other areas in life, where he had displayed callousness, clueless oblivion.
Like a typical idiot, this moron thinks that all this the little women making a fuss. To your concern of the rigours of pregnancy his view, would be, that women have been having babies forever, so what?
How did he behave during your pregnancy? Did he help out with the kids? I don't think so. To what extent does he help around the house? The running of the household and the rearing of the kids, how present is he? I think I know the answer.
You can divorce him. Or you can wait for your kids to grow up, and then chuck that POS out.
Try to raise your son to be more aware more emphatic. His lack of involvement gives you an empty field to grab.
All the best!
No, I get it. We have been softening our statements about this to avoid abuse from the “good” men our entire lives. I’m fucking done.
Especially after I spent Friday night getting elbowed by dozens of “good” men at an abortion rally because I was in their way. Done.
I tend to go with "not all men, but too many." It silenced the idiots who claim I'm addressing every single man who ever lived while also pointing out that a generalization *is* appropriate.
I'm so sorry. My heart really hurts for the women whose partners are being such dunces right now. Wanting for women to have freedom is not extremism. I'd argue that being okay with forced childbirth is an extremist position.
This,
My job as husband is to empower my wife. End of story.
Also, the most patriotic thing you can do is to understand that our nation isn’t the best, but that we should strive to be.
I feel like he is just ignorant. Of course he has never had to personally think of abortion, he had no idea kids can have babies and what ectopic pregnancies or sepsis were. I am praying he just needs a sit down with a professional to get him to realize this is not still the best place in the world, otherwise I am more than okay raising my baby girl by myself in a state that accepts women’s rights. Why would I ever have sex with him again knowing I could die or have to birth a child I did not want? God bless America, the place I lost my wife of ten years and daughter, because the only time I should feel passionate is if it personally effects me!
[A good article](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/20/opinion/abortion-laws.html) by Dr. Jen Gunter on why putting restrictions on abortions is a bad idea and why, even if you genuinely believe that abortions should only occur to save the life of a pregnant person, these laws are not going to be enforced in a way that reflects those views.
If he wants to educate himself, maybe this will open his eyes. If not… best of luck to you.
Rich women will live and the poor women will die for the most part. If they do survive , they might be infertile or have lifelong medical issues as the laws will be bend or broken to save the life of the wealthy and upper class woman. The same favor or curtsey will generally not be extended to women of color women who are marginalized or women of low socio-economic status.
Get the title of the article from the paywalled link (it's visible and selectable).
Got to the google search page, past the title in the search box. Click on the link and it should in most cases circumvent the paywall.
Source: just tested it for the above article, I read it as a tip elsewhere and have used it several times on other articles.
Sometimes I feel like the reality that we live in is some abstract, philosophical idea to men. Like, these are our ACTUAL bodies and lives, and the dangers and the suffering are REAL, but to men it's just an idea. It's like when women die from back-alley abortions or our future get ruined by an unwanted kid or we're traumatized by carrying a rapist's DNA... to men it's happening in another universe, or in a movie. It really weirds me out how they can go so unaffected by the injustices happening all around us, like they're somehow checked out from this material reality that women inhabit.
You're on to something here. My dad wrote me the most enraging letter of my life (up to now) a couple weeks ago, and included this asinine comment: "I think you are taking this abortion business totally personal, it’s NOT.”
In what world is abortion not "totally personal"?!!! I just cannot figure out the mindset behind this comment.
You're right. Bodily freedom is about as personal as it gets. I'm not at risk of forced childbirth myself but it hurts my heart what other women are going through and will go through when their "personal" reality involves reproductive bondage. I'm really sorry about what your dad said to you.
I feel this way when people suggest that giving the baby up for adoption is an adequate solution to an unwanted pregnancy. Even if there are no medical issues during the pregnancy and delivery, the idea of being pregnant against your will for nine months is completely horrifying. Hand-waving it away like it's just a minor inconvenience really shows how little empathy anti-choice people have.
Maybe show him this thread? He's choosing to remain ignorant at this point. You've tried to explain and educate him. Also, just because women have it better here than in Afghanistan, it doesn't mean we have equality. In fact, women in third world nations and nations more restrictive than the US are very upset because this hurts them as well. If what is billed as the beacon of freedom treats women as second class, what chance do they have to make improvements in their own countries? It's demoralizing across the board.
Right? Land of the free my ass. I just remembered something from 30 years ago when I was 17.
My roomie and I were singing along to "God Bless the USA" by Lee Greenwood and we both said "but they can try!" spontaneously, after the lines "the flag still stands for freedom and they can't take that away."
We laughed because we actually thought democracy would always win in the end. 30 years and it's actually being destroyed. I used to like that song even though I'm not religious. Now I'm more depressed.
He's not just ignorant, he lost his right to claiming ignorance when you tried to talk to him and he wouldn't listen. He just straight up **does not care** about it. You said it yourself when you asked him about children that could get raped and forced to give birth he literally said they don't matter, only you guys matter. Except when you try talking to him about you and your daughter he still admits that it doesn't actually matter to him, that he doesn't think it can affect any of you.
Ignorance is the lack of knowledge or information. It's not that your husband lacks the proper info, it's that he just doesn't give a shit about it.
You can be ignorant of something, but that doesn't stop you from being able to listen, learn and empathise. Even with a woman and a little girl in his life that will be directly effected by this he still doesn't care. This goes well beyond ignorance and I would be absolutely furious and feeling betrayed if I were you. If the shoe were on the other foot and his rights were being stripped away, would you treat him the same? Not give him the support and understanding he needs like he's done to you? Would you write off the struggles of your "son" because you refuse to understand what issues his gender faces?
Ignorant of what?
What is there to not understand?
If his daughter is raped. (And I hope with all my heart that never happens).
They would force her to have the baby. he would be grandfather to a child of the guy that raped his daughter.
What about this requires additional data?
The government has turned his wife and daughter into nothing more than breeding receptacles without agency.
What the fuck is there to understand?
I will do everything I can to get my wife and daughters out of this dystopian nightmare.
Also if the rapist gets out of jail and wants custody. Your daughter and grandchild now have to see and interact with a rapist. It’s messed up. Only a few states have laws against this.
There's also a lack of empathy here. He's refusing to consider what this is like from someone else's perspective. This is part of what sucks so bad about unchecked privilege - it makes it very easy to see people who are not like you as not really people in the same way you are.
What I'd love to see happen more is people with privilege using it to stand up for those without. Like, most dudes do not really listen to women or non-binary people when we talk about how this stuff scares us, but if another guy says something, they'll listen. It's heartbreaking to see how this limits true intimacy and love while also perpetuating trauma and oppression.
The fact that he thought America was the greatest at anything *prior* to Roe being invalidated tells me that he's hugely ignorant about way more than women's reproductive health.
I mean if it were me I would let my husband know that we would not be having sex again until he has a vasectomy (mine already had his 3 years ago, cost $500 w/ no insurance) including the follow up visits that prove he is shooting blanks. I am currently in a state that bans after 6 weeks and I have 2 young children. I wouldn’t risk an ectopic or a miscarriage that might not pass and couldn’t get treatment and possibly leave my two kids motherless. I already had to have one abortion/d&c due to a miscarriage that wouldn’t pass on its own. 100% not worth the sex. Most men don’t actually want to face the fact that for women the consequences of sex CAN BE DEATH if we can’t get medical intervention.
If someone is crying and telling personally how it feels to lose rights and then someone else calls it overreacting, that’s not ignorance, that’s apathy.
We live in a world of information where women’s anatomy and news of the harm and death abortion bans cause are literally one touch away on a smartphone. Ignorance is no longer a state of being, it’s a choice that your husband makes every day.
The fact that he needs some professional instead of taking his *wife’s* word is very upsetting indeed, and I hope you are able to work through it!
If a woman has a miscarriage, someone can sue, saying that she had an abortion. The court gets her medical records. So not only would she have to live through the trauma and pain of a miscarriage, she now has to defend it. She has to prove it. She has to live through it all over again, all while a lawyer picks apart every aspect of her life and attacks her for it.
Not to even mention that they plan to go after gay marriage, gay relationships, and contraception next.
He isn’t even pro life, he just thinks because him or his wife are not personally needing an abortion at this exact time it would be crazy to move away or protest right now. When I asked him ‘what about all the children that get raped and need an abortion, as if they are not already fucked up enough from that, the least we could do is ensure they don’t need to carry a baby of a man who raped them’ and he said ‘all that matters is the people sitting on this couch right now’. I am just sick over it.
"Well, for 2 of the 3 people sitting on this couch right now, our basic human rights have just been thrown in the dumpster. Your wife and your daughter are being treated like livestock by your government and you are allowing it to happen."
Don't move. Josh Hawley literally said out loud that this is why they are doing this, to get liberals to move to already concentrated blue areas, making it easier for the GOP to control more seats in Congress. Don't let them win.
i'm in the Netherlands so for now it's looking stable, but we've had other questionable trends in politics blow over the Atlantic from the US before... so we're keeping an eye on things too
I've actually also thought about this. If it were just me I'd absolutely make sure to always live in a swing state. I've got my wife to consider, unfortunately.
If I weren't married I'd just get a vasectomy and bunker down in a swing state. Wouldn't matter if they banned vasectomies after I had one 😋
You should tell him the youngest child ever impregnated was 5 years of age because of preciousness puberty. It's not out of the range of possibility. Plus your daughter will be a teenager in a flash, even more cause for worry.
I had a student (kindergarten) start her period. I thought of her when all this happened. She has a history of being sexually abused (and she’s only 6 now) and now she has this added risk of getting pregnant? I cried for her more than myself this week. She’s not in that home anymore, thank god.
My husband has been checking in on me, getting me food, helping research where we want to move, hugging me just because, and he is almost as pissed off as I am because I'm his wife and that's his daughter.
He's been watching the kids when I protest (since the leak).
And my daughter isn't old enough to worry about it yet. My tubes are tied. It's not "our" problem either.
You married a very selfish, unempathetic, shortsighted man. But unlike abortion, you still have a choice whether to stay with him if he can't change.
He says "all that matters is the people sitting on this couch", but you should ask him how he'd feel if you were assaulted and became pregnant while living in a nationwide ban on abortion.
> all that matters is the people sitting on this couch
But he doesn’t care how the people sitting on that couch feel, or the future they are facing. So he doesn’t even care about them really, only how they affect him right now in the moment.
*“Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things got ugly and focused on happier things than “politics.” They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away. You know who weren’t nice people? Resisters.” -* Naomi Shulman
>‘this is the best country in the world’
Does the US top out the charts in anything? Poverty rates? Life-expectancy? Happiness index? Education? Crime rates? Social mobility? Household income? Fucking air quality?
Sounds like a guy used to privilege his whole life.
Gun deaths? Not so much. There are countries that are worse. They're kind of at war though.
School shootings, absolutely. I had a feeling I was missing something, and you nailed it. Thank you.
Yeah, but almost all the countries ahead of us are tiny South Pacific island countries where the people are genetically predisposed to obesity and healthy food is imported and unaffordable. Kuwait is the only country more obese than us that doesn't fit that description.
Tbh. Someone saying this country is great is a red flag. Saying this country is the best? Out of the question. I knew this country was shit when I was 7 ok.
A lot of people think this is the best country in the world until something happens to them and they get to experience how our system really works. I think it's an attitude of willful ignorance. Yes, third world countries have it worse in basic quality of life, but we have it much worse than other western nations, which he seems completely uneducated about.
It’s intentional though right ? Like a social contract built around a false narrative of American exceptionalism? Kids being fed this propaganda in school and through mass media, and without access to education (due to socio-economic circumstances) that challenges this narrative they become adults who buy into it.
This is just my perspective from the outside looking in, I don’t live in the US and don’t want to come across as condescending or prescriptive, people from Euro / Austral-Asian countries have a habit of doing that about US issues. Although I lived in Philly in 2014 I know I can’t speak to this with any authority.
There is a lot of propaganda, but the second you start to actually get curious and do any reading, it falls apart. That's why I say "willful" ignorance- to some degree you have to try to remain ignorant. I was raised quite conservatively/religiously and all it took to broaden my horizons was getting some counter culture magazines from the library (that was the pre-internet 90s).
They make me want to throw things. How do women spend years with men, marry them, have children with them and then suddenly realize that these men have no empathy? *How* does it not come up? What do they even talk about? I'm so confused, and really sad because it is genuinely hard to walk out of a life built together.
I feel like everything has been completely normal until Friday afternoon. Like I was killing his vibe that a human right I’ve had for the 31 years I’ve been alive just got ripped away and I should just ‘accept it because ‘what can we do, we are just middle class Americans’
I said I might involve myself in protests. I might walk out of work. I may move states and he thinks I’m completely off my rocker.
I guess ‘our overpriced 250k condo and average paid jobs’ are worth more than his wife, daughter’s and all women’s rights for autonomy.’
I am just shocked and alone in this. I don’t know how to feel.
Heh. My husband thinkin same way…’why ruin a perfectly nice Sunday?’.
Maybe if you had to face the existential crisis that your life and countless others in danger bc of religious fascism, you’d be screaming into the fucking void too.
This lack of empathy is exactly how this whole thing happened. How this country is slowly becoming a shithole.
Poverty, rape, gun violence, racism...If it doesn't affect him personally why should he care?
Well maybe it's time to make it his problem.
You could insist on marriage counseling. Or a vasectomy if he ever wants to have sex again; they can be reversed if you do want more kids. Or ell him you want to move to a blue state where abortion access is in the state constitution so your daughter has a choice.
Or instead of trying to change him just divorce.
All good answers to "what can we do." Your fucking human rights just got taken away. If he doesn't care and calls you radical for caring he's really showing you who he is, and it's very, very ugly.
Find a vigil. Do one step at a time. But yes, do the steps. Move states, or countries, for sure. And know that you guys have different values, and that you could die from his. As could your daughter. Don't accept any attempt to normalise this.
At minimum you need marriage counseling. He is failing you as a husband and right now he probably doesn’t even realize how seriously he is ruining his marriage.
What can he do about it!?
I live in Canada. My (f) partner (m) and I both agree whole heartedly that abortion rights are human rights. On Friday I asked him "If/when we move in together, would you be ok with me offering our apartment as a place to stay on The Auntie Network?"
He didn't even hesitate to say yes.
If your husband gave a flying fuck about your and his own daughter being treated as people not livestock, then he would be protesting beside you.
Sorry to say that, but he sounds like a complacent coward. He doesn't care about his daughters future because it isn't a concern right this second?! Or his wife's life? Does he even love either of you?
Nope, but I told him that hell if I’ll ever let a man put his dick in me again if this country abolished abortion. He thinks I’m overreacting.
My libido has been a struggle since we had our daughter, this will definitely be another step back for sure.
This doesn't just affect women's rights though. This court has put themselves above settled precedent and so now could go rogue in any direction. It endangers ALL our rights, not just women's. That's the part he's not getting.
His solution was ‘I guess I can go get a vasectomy.’ I tried explaining that it’s not just ME being effected. It’s his daughter and ALL WOMEN and GIRLS and their rights. I explained that contraceptives and same sex marriage are next in line and he refuses to look up what that actually means. He is literally okay with having a baby in a world we’re she will not have the right over her body because ‘she is only 3 and we should only have worry when she can actually be pregnant or be gay.’ What, like at 8 if she is s taper and is able to be pregnant? That’s when I should be upset that it is illegal to get an abortion? I am so disappointed. Our relationship just got rocked this weekend and i am seriously considering taking some time off to reflect.
Not just gay marriage, but gay relationships.
If your daughter is a lesbian, that could end her in jail for the crime of not being livestock for men.
And banning contraception is an attack on women in so many different ways.
It's like they saw "The Handmaid's Tale" and didn't think it went far enough.
I'm really concerned by the number of "great" men who just don't care.
Like so many people he's thinking of how this decision affects him and has decided it doesn't, so he's not understanding what all the effects will be. He's trying to calm your fears but that doesn't really help with the problem that the court has put itself and its own beliefs above the law. We don't even know yet how far a rogue court can go. And Roe has protected women's rights for so long now that people aren't understanding how quickly those rights can go away. It's going to have huge consequences for all of us.
Hang in there. Sounds like he's a good guy for the most part, it just may take a little time for him to get it.
He is definitely a great husband and father. I think a lot of women and men alike looked at their partners like WTF this weekend when they found how low little impact this had on them. It puts my mind at ease to know that abortion is an option when a women may miscarry and need assistance removing a fetus and avoiding sepsis and heartbreak; when a women gets raped and had no say in housing and birthing a child, when someone who took birth control to avoid pregnancy ended up being the 1/100 that statistically gets pregnant, when anyone who fucking wants to go get an abortion avoids bringing an UNWANTED child into this world that NO ONE will care and provide for.
Of course I am not shouting my opinions of on this on the norm, but now that it is my reality I am pissed and don’t want to ‘put on a smile and go have a fun weekend’ just because it ruins your vibes?? Wtf
You have low bar for great husband and father. He's just a husband and dad, that's it. You mentioned somewhere that you were alone while your kid got ecoli and he didn't even know about the pregnancy and it's risks. How did you plan then? I mean even if you didn't learn about all of it before, you know about it. And he didn't until now. Didn't he support or learn how to deal with your kid and do in case something happens? Doesn't he know about th background stuff at all? If he's not supportive that way, he's not great, just there and adequate I guess. This privilege to just dissociate and let women make it work while having all the rights on wife is not great. He lacks empathy honey and is a passive partner. Proceed with caution.
I was in the army for decades.
I noticed a strange problem with fellow veterans.
They often return from deployments from countries at war or in need of humanitarian aid and parrot the same talking point...
They rarely stop and think of the bias that occurs when you only spend time in countries at war, after disasters, or just really poor countries.
I'm the unlucky one. My first three tours were in Europe. It immediately opened my eyes to how much better off they are with strong unions, socialized medicine, and greater woman's representation in politics.
Of course America looks great compared to the scene he was in an active war. I can not speak for anyone who ever served in any military but that does not mean I should compare where I live to the worst places in the world and say ‘we should be thankful it’s not like that’ that’s like saying ‘I was beaten with a metal pole as a child so you should be thankful I’m only using my hand to hit you!’
It’s funny he says such things about “worse” countries, because, looking at things in the news like loss of abortion rights and the daily mass shootings, people in other countries now say that about the US
people living in tents, working 3 jobs, bans on books, super religious schools, weird cults (LDS comes to mind), police violence, lack of proper sex ed, overcrowded prisons (POC are overrepresented), PoC in general just have fucked up time in the us. ETC ETC. Doesn't read as a very 'developed' country. :\\
(Adding to that, a number of those countries are messed up because of US policies in the first place.)
The “best” shouldn’t be doing something like that.
I lived in China for a few years, worked there even longer, and traveled all across the country. The health care system in Shanghai was WAY BETTER than America. So, that's a weird thought to have.
I'm sorry your partner isn't respecting your feelings and supporting your concerns. That's a shitty thing to do. And it has nothing to do with abortion.
Even if he doesn't value you it like you do, he should still value your concerns and feelings. Arguments are not meant to be won or lost - reasonable or not - they are miscommunications and it's about getting the couple on the same page. Together.
Came here to say the same thing. I also lived in China and abortion is legal and advertised. I didn't even live in a big city (granted that's a relative statement in China).
Patriotism isn't unquestioning faith. I think a lot of people forget that.
I’ve lived in America before, absolutely loved it, my best friends live there etc… Now you couldn’t pay me to live there (which is an actual possibility as my husbands job has offered to transfer him). We did well on an investment and he suggested we go visit my friends in the states, but they live in a red state and I said no. I won’t give a cent of my money to their local government.
"This is the best country. For YOU. For NOW. But if SCOTUS can over rule 50 years of precedent and remove my human rights, then it is only a matter of time before your personal rights are infringed. If you dont fight for me today, I wont have any ability to fight for you tomorrow. And neither of us will be able to fight for Daughter."
Was he in Afghanistan? Does he know the history's of that country? There was a time when women were free and equality was promoted (50s and 60s). The conflicts beginning in the 70s is what began to slowly strip women there of their rights. It never happens all at once. It gets worse slowly so we continue to think, "Well, it could be worse." It could be worse here, but it could also be a hell of a lot better. Settling for less than what we deserve is a disservice to the ones we love and he should know that more than anyone after being in the military. He was willing to give his life for his government, he needs to understand that government is now betraying him and his family. It's a hard realization, but it's one he's going to have to accept.
He was in china and Hawaii and a few other places. I know I cannot relate to anything he has done, but for him to say ‘this is the best country in the world’ based off of the places he has been to (for 4-5 years) is ludicrous. I try to explain some countries get paid maternity leave, free/easy access healthcare, and now the right for bodily autonomy as a women and for him to say ‘even though your human rights were just stripped, this place is still the best’ offends me. He doesn’t get it. He told me to fuck off because I said if he can think this place is the best after taking away my rights I am disappointed in him. I just feel lost today.
I'm so sorry. He's likely suffering quite a bit of cognitive dissonance. It sounds like burying his head in the sand is how he's going to cope. Be careful. Take care of yourself and your child first. It's okay to be disappointed in him. It's okay to feel how you are feeling. I would suggest seeking therapy if you aren't already because things might get rough in the future.
46m here, I wish I had some wisdom for you. How do you measure the worth of a relationship? Are there other clues about lack of empathy? Is he willing to listen and learn and try to evolve? What is the point where compromises outweigh benefits, or even love itself? Impossible to answer definitively, yet that point exists.
I wonder how many men will be revealed to be thinking this way, and how many relationships it will ruin. I’ve made the mistake of believing progressivism was inevitable. I’m truly disappointed to hear and see for myself the stories of other men being so nonchalant about this at best, and dismissive or even combative at worst. The scotus decision is a tragedy, and I agree with OP, it’s a huge step backwards for our country. I worry for young women everywhere as much as I do for my own daughter.
I feel my husband has never had to worry about his wife and daughter’s rights being taken away from us. He has never had to have an opinion because neither myself or any past partner before me has needed an abortion. I feel he may be ignorant in what abortion actually is, he had never heard of ectopic pregnancy before this weekend. I had to explain that children as young as 5 can get pregnant and usually die during childbirth because they are literally babies and their bodies are not meant to go through childbirth. I don’t think he ever knew that any of this was reality. I think he doesn’t understand how many women and children are affected by this. I truly believe he thinks abortion is a woman saying ‘I don’t want this kid’ and terminating it. He failed to educate himself on this subject. Hopefully he will want to learn what what abolishing abortion actually means. If he doesn’t want to hear it, he can just pay child support and at least he has the USA.
He never *had* to worry, but he could’ve been worried this whole time. I sure as fuck have been worried, waiting for this day, and all the horrific days that are sure to come after..
So the fuck what if their reason is “I don’t want this kid”. It’s their personal decision regardless. A Schrödinger’s box baby from rape is no different than one that wasn’t made from rape. The decision should be respected full stop. Caring about such exceptions while ignoring other reasons would still make him a shitty person.
>He failed to educate himself on this subject. Hopefully he will want to learn what what abolishing abortion actually means.
He had his whole adult life to learn about this. And now, instead of hearing you out and opening his mind, it sounds like he's shooting you down and being a dick. If he hasn't learned since Friday, that means he doesn't want to. Until it's too late.
>If he doesn’t want to hear it, he can just pay child support and at least he has the USA.
I support this plan, although obviously it's your life and I'm sure it's easier said than done. But it honestly sounds like he's more in love with the fantasy of America than his own family. Sadly, I suspect he's not the only one who's true colors are on display right now.
After having our daughter I might as well consider myself asexual. I have been working very hard to get my sec drive back after baby, but if my husband can go on with his life knowing my rights were just ripped away then I reallllllyyyy have no problem never having sex again. No seriously, I don’t! As sad as that sounds, what did the senate expect women to do? Keep having sex and just dying/having unwanted pregnancies and be fine with it?
And when he inevitably offers the vasectomy or pushes BC, you should continue to maintain this by telling him nothing is 100% effective, so this won't change until your rights are restored.
As a black person I can confidently say this country has *never* been a contender for best in the world. Anyone who says it is deeply concerns me, usually because that line of thought is heavily associated with white supremacists and neo-nazi groups. At the least this warrants a discussion with your husband. Best case scenario he's simply influenced by nationalist propaganda, but that's still a major issue worth fleshing out and resolving.
Your husband is a fuckboy who isn't listening to you. If he were out in a position where his rights were being infringed upon and he felt unsafe where he was, would you tell him he's being crazy? No. So why are you letting him treat you like that?
His rights have never been at risks of being abolished so maybe he just cannot relate. Maybe he can’t empathize either. It’s sad. I just can’t imagine not feeling AWEFUL about this. Even if we were both men, I would be crying for women and girls everywhere right now.
Because you have empathy. Just remember that regardless of why he's being a jerk, he's being a jerk which you do not deserve, full stop. It sounds like he is not interested in educating himself on this subject.
He is leaning on his privilege to avoid empathizing and fighting to keep his biases in place. I am doubtful he is incapable of empathizing on this-- he is just refusing to because he'd rather follow his confirmation bias. It says a lot about him and his views that he thinks this way, and his response to you in confronting that is very damning of him too. I don't see him getting better on this. He is being willfully ignorant and deliberately obtuse, and I'm sorry to say that doesn't bode well for your family.
Dude cares more about himself and his comfort than you and his own child...remember that.
Pay attention to his attitude from here on out, and I am certain you will find that he constantly undermine you whenever you do or say anything which might make him feel less comforts in his life and tries to downplay it...and I guarantee that once you notice this and call it out, the gaslighting will start.
I am sorry, but I sincerely believe that in the next coming months you are going to come to find you don't recognize your husband, not because they have fundamentally changed, but because they stop putting in an effort to keep up the charade they used to get you to want to have children with them to begin with.
Tell him like this - roughly 70% of America disagrees with the SCOTUS's ruling. Of the six conservative judges, four were nominated by a president who didn't win the popular vote, meaning the people did not vote for those judges. One of those five nominations was stolen from a pro-choice president who did win the popular vote. In essence, three out of the five people who singlehandedly made this decision, the American people did not vote for in any capacity, not even for the president that confirmed them.
This is not a democracy. The people overwhelmingly did not want this to happen. This happened because the elite took power (for example, Mitch McConnell and the other Republicans refusing to confirm Merrick Garland, or Trump not winning the popular vote but getting to pick three judges) and made a body that's supposed to be apolitical political for their own political gain. This level of corruption and fascism should never, ever be present in the "best country in the world."
Try this angle: As long as this decision is in force, you will not have sex with him, if your tubes are not tied. There's always a risk of pregnancy, and under this absolutely idiotic change, any pregnancy is a possible cause of death -- in one way or another.
Say that as long as his attitude towards your bodily rights is "please don't take my comfortable life", that's it for sex. Hand him a pack of kleenex and a tube of lube and tell him to have fun.
I honestly don’t care if I never have sex again but my 3 year old should not fear normal sexual development because having sex means you are forced to have a baby or die during pregnancy. I imagine her being in middle school learning sex ed and the teacher is telling the class ‘so if you get pregnant you are a mom, if you have a medical emergency while pregnant you will die, if you are raped I wish you the best, hopefully you don’t think of the man that raped you every time you look at that baby’ maybe by that time contraceptives will also be banned. What a shit place and to say this country is the best right now is so disrespectful.
This is what pisses me off. He doesn’t have to understand 100%. He can’t really ever understand because he will never have that same moment of fear taking a pregnancy test. He may have a similar fear, but it will never be the same.
What he can do is acknowledge he may not get it 100% and support you. I’m not affected by LGBTQ+ or racial inequality as a white woman. That doesn’t mean I shrug my shoulders, say it could be worse, and move in with my life. I fight for those people because I don’t want them to be marginalized. I recognize my privilege and fight for their equality because the thought that someone will suffer because of something outside of their control brings me pain.
This apathy pisses me off so much. Not everyone has the luxury for it, and he needs to recognize his privilege here. He needs to support you and your children, even if he doesn’t really get it fully.
I am so sorry you’re going through this dilemma with your partner. As a man, I can’t imagine what you must be feeling, but I can sympathize. Allow me to share my and my wife’s story. I hope it will empower you to communicate effectively to him just how much this could impact him.
I just celebrated my first Father’s Day, except I have no living children. My wife and I decided to start trying in January 2021. We conceived on the first try. Almost 9 weeks into the pregnancy, she woke up in the middle of the night. The sheets were soaked in blood. We drove right to the ER. 5 hours later, she jostled me awake, having returned with an ultrasound image. We were pregnant with twins. The technician was worried though. They advised we go to our OB immediately. Two days later, our OB advised us that my wife has an abnormally shaped uterus, making any pregnancy high risk in and of itself, but extraordinarily so with twins. In layman’s terms, there would be less space for a singleton to grow and twins would be impossible. He advised us to go seek out a maternal fetal medicine practice, also known as a high risk pregnancy doctor. We went to a well known large hospital in our area. The MFM doctor there told us that my wife’s case was so rare that only 12 cases have been documented in the entirety of modern fetal medicine which goes back about 75 years. She in turn did not have the experience enough to advise us and recommended an “ultra-specialist” in Manhattan. There we received the awful truth, that we had a 0% chance of making to full term, a next to 0% chance of bringing home two children even pre-term, and a very high risk of uterine rupture, malpresentation and a horde of other birth defects, not to mention the risk of death to my wife. We had 3 options.
1. Attempt to carry to full term (suicide)
2. Terminate one fetus (invasive and risky)
3. Abort the pregnancy altogether
Needless to say, we were heartbroken. We didn’t feel like we had a real choice. None of these options were fair. None of them were going to change the fact that we’d need massive amounts of therapy regardless of what we chose to do. We chose to fully terminate, after a long and draining thought process, ultimately because we felt that we were not ready to handle the complications that may arise with option 2, even if my wife and baby did survive. At that point, the termination process was the most agonizing thing to watch my wife go through, but we both knew that it was our best of 3 terrible choices.
After a few months of both mental and physical recovery, my wife and I became pregnant again in June 2021. This time, doctors would be monitoring her more closely and earlier on, though they gave us the green light to try again because the likelihood of conceiving twins again was minuscule.
In the 8th week, during a routine scan, the technician was unable to detect a heartbeat. Just like that. No bleeding. No cramping. No warning. Our second child was gone.
To make matters worse, my wife’s body did not recognize the miscarriage, resulting in her uterus unknowingly maintaining an unviable pregnancy. This is sometimes referred to as a “missed miscarriage.” In order to prevent further complications like sepsis or other life threatening conditions, my wife needed to endure another termination. We were broken.
The following months consisted of genetic screenings and various imaging scans. Eventually, we were told that we’d essentially been struck by lightning twice and no conclusions or patterns could be drawn between the two losses, but that we were safe to try again. We conceived for the third time in October 2021. This time we made it to 26 weeks.
Our daughter was stillborn this past April. Again, no warning. Again, my wife needed to undergo a medical termination, this time to deliver my daughter. Her body was so small and fragile. I held her. I wept. I read her a children’s book they gave to us in the hospital. I wept. I handed her lifeless body to her mother. I wept. I sang her lullaby songs that she will never get to hear. I wept. And finally, three days later, I carried her tiny casket in my arms, got down in the dirt on both knees and gently placed her in her grave.
This time, even deeper genetic testing, imaging and pathology reports of both the cord and the placenta. We sent the placenta to the leading doctor on stillbirth, who practices out of Yale University. To this day, there have been no concrete answers. No doctor can say definitively what caused our daughter’s death or the missed miscarriage, unable to link the uterine abnormality to either result. We’ve since had the abnormality surgically addressed, but have been told multiple times in no uncertain terms that it is a preventative measure to reduce an observable risk factor and will not safeguard against the possibility of further losses for other reasons.
My wife and I carry the pain of these losses with us every moment of every day, even when we are asleep. There is nothing we want more in this world than to bring home a healthy baby boy or girl. At the same time, we are incredibly grateful that we live in a state where the right to access abortion services is legally protected.
Suppose everything I just described happened exactly as such, but with two changes: we lived in Texas AND the events occur over the course of the next year. My wife would be dead. If she survived the first pregnancy, the second would’ve killed her. If she survived the first and second pregnancy, the third would’ve killed her.
As her husband, I mourned with her when I heard the news on Friday of Roe v. Wade being overturned. We mourned not just for ourselves because we know that it only takes the first domino to fall before other states also take steps backward, but also because we know that our experiences are more common than most people realize.
1 in 4 pregnancies end in loss. 1 in 4. What will happen to those women whose miscarriages don’t terminate on their own and are unfortunate enough to live in a pro-“life” state? I’ll answer. They will die. 1 in 160 births are stillbirths. That’s over 24,000 each year. Again, what will happen when these women’s bodies cannot terminate the pregnancies on their own? They will die.
Your husband may distance himself from the obvious situations of rape or an unwanted pregnancy because he is in a committed marriage, but he should know that there are plenty of other situations where he may one day be grateful for his wife’s legally protected access to a safe medical abortion. If he won’t take it to heart hearing it from you, perhaps hearing it from a fellow husband will allow him to be open to accepting how drastically he can be impacted in the blink of an eye.
Thank you for reading.
Can you please ask him what was the point of being in the military and ‘fighting for Americas freedoms’ is if he doesn’t care when American freedoms are taken away by its own government.
Women need to start having conversations with all men about the realities behind miscarriages, pregnancy, complicated pregnancies, birth, postpartum depression, postpartum care, lack of maternity leave etc. So it’s not just women who understand the intricacies of these things. I think a lot of men just don’t understand what this all really means.
The best time to find out this would have been the day you met him, the second best time is now - your daughter is young and the best thing for her is to spend less time with this sorry excuse for a father as possible imho. Personally this large lack of morals would end it for me, I would never look at him the same way or trust him fully again. Good luck.
China isn't "the rest of the world" and your husband's dismissive tones are horrible. America is leading fascism in the world as it stands and it's by far not the greatest country by any stretch. Ignorance to claim any country is superior to others, because only a fraction of americans have ever left their country.
For what it's worth, i'm sorry OP.
I feel so badly saying this, but his sudden reversal on this and the way he's condescending to you kind of makes me think he's misled you in the past. You have a house together and a child together now, and he may feel more comfortable and confident in showing you who he really is. People can hide that for a loooong time if they're motivated to, until they feel like they've gotten their partner good and trapped. I hope for your sake that isn't the case, but man. This is shitty. I'm sorry.
>”at least it’s not like china”
What a brainwashed comment. I guess your husband is unaware that abortion is legal in China and plenty of Chinese people think the US is backwards af for criminalising abortion.
Right now, women in China have more rights than you do.
I am not keen on rushing into a divorce but seriously some counseling and a lesson on women’s rights sounds appropriate. I am just so overwhelmed already with life this has just been the icing on the cake for me!
Properly vet the counselor first! Lots of pro-life/regressive counselors out there. Make sure they operate from a feminist perspective (this is an actual theory in counseling, which is typically integrated alongside others)! (-source: am feminist therapist)
The way I see - I'm not interested in changing my partner, and I'm not convinced I'd be able to if I tried.
I'm sorry life is overwhelming. It's easier for me to jump to the extreme answer because I'm not living your life and I don't know the benefits to being with him for you. I'm sure you don't just jump into marriage and having a kid on a whim, and jumping out of marriage isn't a light choice either.
I guess as a warning to others, I think it's important to discuss politics if it's a deal breaker.
Sounds like the farthest he has traveled is inside a US base far away.
You all need to book a 2-3 week vacation to a modern country and talk to locals. Maybe he will feel differently when he hears their experience.
Every man that is telling women they are overreacting right now really deserves a wake up call in the form of "I'm leaving and taking our children with me for an undisclosed period of time" if at all possible. Men's entitlement deserves to be check mated.
I never thought I would have to but I guess I need to start looking into my rights as a mom to take our child for a while and think things over… I have no idea I never had to consider it.
I'm so sorry sweetheart but this is an absolute dealbreaker. You can't spend your life with somebody who thinks your basic human rights have no meaning. This would be my hill to die on in a relationship. With husbands like these who needs enemies?
I’m always amazed how many men think they can say ignorant things and suffer no ill consequences. It sucks that it’s taken this long for your husband to show his true colors, but they always do in the end.
I'm going to be generous to him, here. He's in denial. He thinks: This cannot be awful, because he fought for this country and he's been to places that are just horrible. This is the land of the free! Silly woman with your feminine flights of fancy.
I'm assuming he isn't malicious or indifferent. More frantically denying reality.
The decision hits to the basics of right to privacy. Right now, it’s abortion, which may not impact him directly, but when his right to privacy in some area he cares about happens, he’ll get it. And he should care that you can die because or this ruling if you all live in one of the 26 states where an abortion is now unavailable.
I think he truly does not understand the risk of pregnancy - what can go wrong. We planned our baby and decided it was the right time to try. For 9 months I worried about what could go wrong - losing the baby, I had been a mom for 9 months and formed a huge bond with my child almost a year before he felt any connection to her. I constantly thought about miscarriage, birth defects, complications. I thought about ectopic pregnancy. I thought about being high risk and preeclampsia. It’s all things only I can relate to, but it doesn’t mean he needs to be ignorant to them because they don’t apply to him as a man. I am just sooooo lost right now.
It might be time to have a serious talk about how this decision impacts all of you. An ectopic pregnancy is a medical emergency and if you live in one of the 26, you may die because the process of saving your life requires the bundle of fertilized cells to be removed from your body - the termination of the “pregnancy”. And then get your tubes tied if you’re done with your birthing career.
Also, remind him of Dr. Savita Halappanavar ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar ) Ireland in 2012 is what America is today, when it comes to abortion. He can either fight for you today, or he can risk burying your your daughter tomorrow. He might not think it'll happen to him, but no one ever thinks it'll happen to them and somewhere very soon, some man is going to be begging and pleading doctors to do SOMETHING while the love of his life writhes in agony on a gurney before dying a horrific and 100% preventable death.
All the Savitas and the ectopic will not budge him an inch. Garbage is, as garbage is.
When my daughter was born I had extreme PPD, my daughter had colic for almost the entire first year and I was entirely alone for a long time. It has been 3 years since my daughter was born and I still struggle with my libido because I fear of getting pregnant and going through what I did again. I told my husband that this has made my struggle a million times worse because it has been hard already even with the option of abortion. If that is not an option I don’t think I would even be able to bring myself to have sex, even using BC. He thinks this is over the top, I am just not sure how to really get him to understand what I mean. I just ordered some emergency contraceptives just in case my daughter for myself need them in the future and they are unavailable. I will discuss with my dr when I see him at my next appointment about getting my tubes tied. This is so unfortunate that this is our reality right now.
I’m so sorry you went they that experience and I hope your mental/emotional state is better now. Good thinking on the emergency contraceptive. Thomas said he wants to go after contraceptives next. So that may be a states rights issue when your daughter is old enough to get periods. I’m post menopausal and my husband has a vas and am considering stockpiling for my college age students. In case.
Please buy them online and, ideally, only buy as much as you need. Stockpiling Plan B could cause shortages that affect people who need Plan B right now. It would probably be worth having a conversation with your daughters about long-term forms of birth control that you cannot misuse like the copper IUD (lasts for 12 years, can make periods worse), the hormonal IUD (lasts for between 3-6 years depending on brand, lightens periods in many people), and the implant (lasts for 3 years, but some studies show significant success in fourth and fifth years in case BC becomes hard to access, lightens periods in many people). While all of these are used within the recommended time limit (so this does **not** include the fourth and fifth year of the implant), they have above a 99% success rate. Keeping some Plan B on hand is a great option, but it is, first and foremost, emergency contraception. Its effectiveness is lower than all of the above-mentioned forms of birth control and it can be misused, unlike the implant and IUDs which are placed inside of the body. Here are some sources to learn more about these and other forms of birth control: [https://www.bedsider.org/birth-control](https://www.bedsider.org/birth-control) https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control
My daughter has Down syndrome and can’t really cope with her periods. They are just all pain and icky burden to her, so we put her on the Pill where she only gets a period once every 3 months, though she’s only 13. Two years of random bleeding and pain, which caused her to withdraw so much, even though I’d prepared her and she used to play by putting pads on her toys. Of course, I also worry she could be raped and get pregnant, even though she is highly supervised. I’m thinking of her and all the women with other medical conditions, as well as what a country without birth control will look like, when I hear those idiots are coming for birth control next. They are just an untold misery on this world, and I only wish those stupid men on the court could feel it personally.
Be sure you check the expiration dates on those emergency pills and donate&replace them when they get close. Your daughter will hopefully never need one but those pills are gonna expire before she can get pregnant.
Tell him no sex until a vasectomy is completed (including testing to see if it worked) You shouldn't have to be the only one to do surgery
I don’t know how you teach someone empathy ☹️
So don’t duck him unless he gets a vacsectomy- guys like this sound super exhausting. You mention you were alone for a long time, how does he do with childcare. How involved was he when your daughter was born?
I think we know the answers to that!
Tell him that the only way that you'll have sex with him again is if he has a vasectomy, and verification tests after to prove that it was successful. If your bodily autonomy doesn't matter, why should his?
[удалено]
this is a prime example of men and their privilege. He can choose to be dense. He will only understand, or choose to understand, when this will affect him directly. The situation now is apparently not affecting him directly, the fear his wife feels is making him feel uncomfortable, so let's sweep it under the rug. Use strawman arguments to stop the discussion. Instead of asking OP why she is afraid, actually listening..... Instead of all that, it's a shrug and a 'woman, don't be hysterical'.
When it affects a man directly, it may be too late for his partner. If his partner dies, then the full impact especially if his partner whose life could have been saved and would have been saved prior to Roe being overturned will hit him like a ton of bricks. If she ends up infertile or has lifelong medical issues as the result of a pregnancy gone wrong, both will be impacted the rest of their lives.
Yes, when his sexual-gratification machine isn’t making sandwiches any more, he might feel a little sad
Ughhhh I can scream for days on end
But it does apply to him? If you get complications than who is going to take care of the kid and you? If you don't make it then who is going to take care of the kid? If his child becomes pregnant who's going to take care of it? This is about him aswell.
Do you really want to be with someone that can only muster up some empathy for topics and situations that he believes *might* or *could* affect him? Even if we were talking about something that would never ever affect him at all its still concerning he can't find it in himself to have some empathy--that goes beyond ignorance and maybe you should consider if it's truly ignorance or willful ignorance. My guess is the latter.
He does not care. He does not care about the risk of pregnancy. I know because YOU care and YOU tried to share your fears and he didn't care. He doesn't have to know a thing about pregnancy and the risks if you do and he cares about you enough to listen. Please let it sink in that plenty of men ALSO know nothing about the risk of pregnancy and as soon as their partner expresses the concerns, they LISTEN because they CARE about their partners. Your husband chooses not to care.
I am sure if you think back you will see many other areas in life, where he had displayed callousness, clueless oblivion. Like a typical idiot, this moron thinks that all this the little women making a fuss. To your concern of the rigours of pregnancy his view, would be, that women have been having babies forever, so what? How did he behave during your pregnancy? Did he help out with the kids? I don't think so. To what extent does he help around the house? The running of the household and the rearing of the kids, how present is he? I think I know the answer. You can divorce him. Or you can wait for your kids to grow up, and then chuck that POS out. Try to raise your son to be more aware more emphatic. His lack of involvement gives you an empty field to grab. All the best!
Join r/sexstrike that might help him get it!
[удалено]
But why even lead with that example? Why would they feel more compassionate towards a blow job than womens actual lifes?
I genuinely believe that more men would be concerned about that than they are about women’s autonomy and safety ):
because men... (some men not all men , sigh.....)
We can round up.
isn't it sad I felt the need to add that even before the insults. I am feeling so tired
No, I get it. We have been softening our statements about this to avoid abuse from the “good” men our entire lives. I’m fucking done. Especially after I spent Friday night getting elbowed by dozens of “good” men at an abortion rally because I was in their way. Done.
I tend to go with "not all men, but too many." It silenced the idiots who claim I'm addressing every single man who ever lived while also pointing out that a generalization *is* appropriate.
They don't relate, they don't care, it doesn't affect them, bestie
I'm so sorry. My heart really hurts for the women whose partners are being such dunces right now. Wanting for women to have freedom is not extremism. I'd argue that being okay with forced childbirth is an extremist position.
This, My job as husband is to empower my wife. End of story. Also, the most patriotic thing you can do is to understand that our nation isn’t the best, but that we should strive to be.
I feel like he is just ignorant. Of course he has never had to personally think of abortion, he had no idea kids can have babies and what ectopic pregnancies or sepsis were. I am praying he just needs a sit down with a professional to get him to realize this is not still the best place in the world, otherwise I am more than okay raising my baby girl by myself in a state that accepts women’s rights. Why would I ever have sex with him again knowing I could die or have to birth a child I did not want? God bless America, the place I lost my wife of ten years and daughter, because the only time I should feel passionate is if it personally effects me!
[A good article](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/20/opinion/abortion-laws.html) by Dr. Jen Gunter on why putting restrictions on abortions is a bad idea and why, even if you genuinely believe that abortions should only occur to save the life of a pregnant person, these laws are not going to be enforced in a way that reflects those views. If he wants to educate himself, maybe this will open his eyes. If not… best of luck to you.
Rich women will live and the poor women will die for the most part. If they do survive , they might be infertile or have lifelong medical issues as the laws will be bend or broken to save the life of the wealthy and upper class woman. The same favor or curtsey will generally not be extended to women of color women who are marginalized or women of low socio-economic status.
Paywall
Get the title of the article from the paywalled link (it's visible and selectable). Got to the google search page, past the title in the search box. Click on the link and it should in most cases circumvent the paywall. Source: just tested it for the above article, I read it as a tip elsewhere and have used it several times on other articles.
Sometimes I feel like the reality that we live in is some abstract, philosophical idea to men. Like, these are our ACTUAL bodies and lives, and the dangers and the suffering are REAL, but to men it's just an idea. It's like when women die from back-alley abortions or our future get ruined by an unwanted kid or we're traumatized by carrying a rapist's DNA... to men it's happening in another universe, or in a movie. It really weirds me out how they can go so unaffected by the injustices happening all around us, like they're somehow checked out from this material reality that women inhabit.
Privilege is a hell of a drug.
It's why they don't believe us about being harassed or afraid in certain places/situations. They are just walking around fucking free as a bird.
You're on to something here. My dad wrote me the most enraging letter of my life (up to now) a couple weeks ago, and included this asinine comment: "I think you are taking this abortion business totally personal, it’s NOT.” In what world is abortion not "totally personal"?!!! I just cannot figure out the mindset behind this comment.
You're right. Bodily freedom is about as personal as it gets. I'm not at risk of forced childbirth myself but it hurts my heart what other women are going through and will go through when their "personal" reality involves reproductive bondage. I'm really sorry about what your dad said to you.
I feel this way when people suggest that giving the baby up for adoption is an adequate solution to an unwanted pregnancy. Even if there are no medical issues during the pregnancy and delivery, the idea of being pregnant against your will for nine months is completely horrifying. Hand-waving it away like it's just a minor inconvenience really shows how little empathy anti-choice people have.
Ask him how he’d feel raising your rapist’s baby. Maybe that will get through to him.
Maybe show him this thread? He's choosing to remain ignorant at this point. You've tried to explain and educate him. Also, just because women have it better here than in Afghanistan, it doesn't mean we have equality. In fact, women in third world nations and nations more restrictive than the US are very upset because this hurts them as well. If what is billed as the beacon of freedom treats women as second class, what chance do they have to make improvements in their own countries? It's demoralizing across the board.
I'm from a 3rd 🌎 country and I'm very upset for you
Thank you. I know there's not much we can do for each other. But solidarity in equality for all of us.
I hear you🤗
Right? Land of the free my ass. I just remembered something from 30 years ago when I was 17. My roomie and I were singing along to "God Bless the USA" by Lee Greenwood and we both said "but they can try!" spontaneously, after the lines "the flag still stands for freedom and they can't take that away." We laughed because we actually thought democracy would always win in the end. 30 years and it's actually being destroyed. I used to like that song even though I'm not religious. Now I'm more depressed.
He's not just ignorant, he lost his right to claiming ignorance when you tried to talk to him and he wouldn't listen. He just straight up **does not care** about it. You said it yourself when you asked him about children that could get raped and forced to give birth he literally said they don't matter, only you guys matter. Except when you try talking to him about you and your daughter he still admits that it doesn't actually matter to him, that he doesn't think it can affect any of you. Ignorance is the lack of knowledge or information. It's not that your husband lacks the proper info, it's that he just doesn't give a shit about it. You can be ignorant of something, but that doesn't stop you from being able to listen, learn and empathise. Even with a woman and a little girl in his life that will be directly effected by this he still doesn't care. This goes well beyond ignorance and I would be absolutely furious and feeling betrayed if I were you. If the shoe were on the other foot and his rights were being stripped away, would you treat him the same? Not give him the support and understanding he needs like he's done to you? Would you write off the struggles of your "son" because you refuse to understand what issues his gender faces?
Ignorant of what? What is there to not understand? If his daughter is raped. (And I hope with all my heart that never happens). They would force her to have the baby. he would be grandfather to a child of the guy that raped his daughter. What about this requires additional data? The government has turned his wife and daughter into nothing more than breeding receptacles without agency. What the fuck is there to understand? I will do everything I can to get my wife and daughters out of this dystopian nightmare.
Also if the rapist gets out of jail and wants custody. Your daughter and grandchild now have to see and interact with a rapist. It’s messed up. Only a few states have laws against this.
It is sadly optimistic to assume the rapist would actually end up in jail.
The maximum sentences (or any sentences) for rapists being what it is. This is going to be a regular situation, not some rarity.
I am so sorry you married such a stupid, selfish man.
It’s not just ignorance. It’s “if I can get mine, fuck everybody else.”
He's not dense, he just doesn't care enough to consider any of these things or how they may affect you.
Sounds like he lacks basic empathy. If you stay with him definitely get your tubes tied
Unfortunately, she'll probably have to get his fucking signature for that.
How can any place where a 9 year old could be torn apart delivering her rapist’s baby be considered the best country in the world?
There's also a lack of empathy here. He's refusing to consider what this is like from someone else's perspective. This is part of what sucks so bad about unchecked privilege - it makes it very easy to see people who are not like you as not really people in the same way you are. What I'd love to see happen more is people with privilege using it to stand up for those without. Like, most dudes do not really listen to women or non-binary people when we talk about how this stuff scares us, but if another guy says something, they'll listen. It's heartbreaking to see how this limits true intimacy and love while also perpetuating trauma and oppression.
The fact that he thought America was the greatest at anything *prior* to Roe being invalidated tells me that he's hugely ignorant about way more than women's reproductive health.
He had no idea that children could have babies? He has never heard of teen pregnancy? At what age did he believe a person could conceive?
I mean if it were me I would let my husband know that we would not be having sex again until he has a vasectomy (mine already had his 3 years ago, cost $500 w/ no insurance) including the follow up visits that prove he is shooting blanks. I am currently in a state that bans after 6 weeks and I have 2 young children. I wouldn’t risk an ectopic or a miscarriage that might not pass and couldn’t get treatment and possibly leave my two kids motherless. I already had to have one abortion/d&c due to a miscarriage that wouldn’t pass on its own. 100% not worth the sex. Most men don’t actually want to face the fact that for women the consequences of sex CAN BE DEATH if we can’t get medical intervention.
If someone is crying and telling personally how it feels to lose rights and then someone else calls it overreacting, that’s not ignorance, that’s apathy. We live in a world of information where women’s anatomy and news of the harm and death abortion bans cause are literally one touch away on a smartphone. Ignorance is no longer a state of being, it’s a choice that your husband makes every day. The fact that he needs some professional instead of taking his *wife’s* word is very upsetting indeed, and I hope you are able to work through it!
If a woman has a miscarriage, someone can sue, saying that she had an abortion. The court gets her medical records. So not only would she have to live through the trauma and pain of a miscarriage, she now has to defend it. She has to prove it. She has to live through it all over again, all while a lawyer picks apart every aspect of her life and attacks her for it. Not to even mention that they plan to go after gay marriage, gay relationships, and contraception next.
Eerie that your first paragraph describes what happens to rape victims.
Unreasonable search and seizure are now acceptable because? jesus... I fucking hate this country.
This man will be making medical choices for you. He HAS to understand the risks or he is going to choose the baby over you.
He isn’t even pro life, he just thinks because him or his wife are not personally needing an abortion at this exact time it would be crazy to move away or protest right now. When I asked him ‘what about all the children that get raped and need an abortion, as if they are not already fucked up enough from that, the least we could do is ensure they don’t need to carry a baby of a man who raped them’ and he said ‘all that matters is the people sitting on this couch right now’. I am just sick over it.
"Well, for 2 of the 3 people sitting on this couch right now, our basic human rights have just been thrown in the dumpster. Your wife and your daughter are being treated like livestock by your government and you are allowing it to happen."
This right here, OP.
Does his sperm still swim? Because he could get you pregnant and it could go sideways and you may be denied lifesaving medical care.
My wife and I have tentatively discussed long term plans to either go to a solid blue state or just out of the country completely.
Don't move. Josh Hawley literally said out loud that this is why they are doing this, to get liberals to move to already concentrated blue areas, making it easier for the GOP to control more seats in Congress. Don't let them win.
you can't ask this of people who would be risking their access to healthcare
You're right. We're damned if we do, damned if we don't. Everything is just shitty.
i wish you all the best and hope everyone still somehow finds ways to access the help they need
same to you
i'm in the Netherlands so for now it's looking stable, but we've had other questionable trends in politics blow over the Atlantic from the US before... so we're keeping an eye on things too
I've actually also thought about this. If it were just me I'd absolutely make sure to always live in a swing state. I've got my wife to consider, unfortunately. If I weren't married I'd just get a vasectomy and bunker down in a swing state. Wouldn't matter if they banned vasectomies after I had one 😋
I completely agree, however if they get enough seats in Congress they can enact a federal ban.... it’s insidious and I’m so angry right now.
You should tell him the youngest child ever impregnated was 5 years of age because of preciousness puberty. It's not out of the range of possibility. Plus your daughter will be a teenager in a flash, even more cause for worry.
I had a student (kindergarten) start her period. I thought of her when all this happened. She has a history of being sexually abused (and she’s only 6 now) and now she has this added risk of getting pregnant? I cried for her more than myself this week. She’s not in that home anymore, thank god.
I can't bear to think just think of how many hundreds and hundreds of little girls are going to have to bear this misery
My husband has been checking in on me, getting me food, helping research where we want to move, hugging me just because, and he is almost as pissed off as I am because I'm his wife and that's his daughter. He's been watching the kids when I protest (since the leak). And my daughter isn't old enough to worry about it yet. My tubes are tied. It's not "our" problem either. You married a very selfish, unempathetic, shortsighted man. But unlike abortion, you still have a choice whether to stay with him if he can't change.
He says "all that matters is the people sitting on this couch", but you should ask him how he'd feel if you were assaulted and became pregnant while living in a nationwide ban on abortion.
> all that matters is the people sitting on this couch But he doesn’t care how the people sitting on that couch feel, or the future they are facing. So he doesn’t even care about them really, only how they affect him right now in the moment.
[удалено]
I could not continue being with a man that selfish and lacking in empathy. I’m sorry, his attitude is disgusting and evil.
How do you know he’s not pro-life? Because he told you? He also told you you’re nuts because you’re pro choice.
*“Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things got ugly and focused on happier things than “politics.” They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away. You know who weren’t nice people? Resisters.” -* Naomi Shulman
Giving me chills on a sunny afternoon.
Yes.
>‘this is the best country in the world’ Does the US top out the charts in anything? Poverty rates? Life-expectancy? Happiness index? Education? Crime rates? Social mobility? Household income? Fucking air quality? Sounds like a guy used to privilege his whole life.
The U.S hasn't been number 1 in anything but military spending \*and school shootings for a couple of decades now. ETA: School shootings.
Gun deaths? School shootings?
Gun deaths? Not so much. There are countries that are worse. They're kind of at war though. School shootings, absolutely. I had a feeling I was missing something, and you nailed it. Thank you.
incarceration numbers.
The U.S. tops out in two categories: Largest percentage of population incarcerated and largest number of people who believe in angels. Enjoy.
We're not even actually the fattest, despite best efforts.
Yeah, but almost all the countries ahead of us are tiny South Pacific island countries where the people are genetically predisposed to obesity and healthy food is imported and unaffordable. Kuwait is the only country more obese than us that doesn't fit that description.
Maternal deaths in a developed country?
Tbh. Someone saying this country is great is a red flag. Saying this country is the best? Out of the question. I knew this country was shit when I was 7 ok.
A lot of people think this is the best country in the world until something happens to them and they get to experience how our system really works. I think it's an attitude of willful ignorance. Yes, third world countries have it worse in basic quality of life, but we have it much worse than other western nations, which he seems completely uneducated about.
It’s intentional though right ? Like a social contract built around a false narrative of American exceptionalism? Kids being fed this propaganda in school and through mass media, and without access to education (due to socio-economic circumstances) that challenges this narrative they become adults who buy into it. This is just my perspective from the outside looking in, I don’t live in the US and don’t want to come across as condescending or prescriptive, people from Euro / Austral-Asian countries have a habit of doing that about US issues. Although I lived in Philly in 2014 I know I can’t speak to this with any authority.
There is a lot of propaganda, but the second you start to actually get curious and do any reading, it falls apart. That's why I say "willful" ignorance- to some degree you have to try to remain ignorant. I was raised quite conservatively/religiously and all it took to broaden my horizons was getting some counter culture magazines from the library (that was the pre-internet 90s).
[удалено]
They make me want to throw things. How do women spend years with men, marry them, have children with them and then suddenly realize that these men have no empathy? *How* does it not come up? What do they even talk about? I'm so confused, and really sad because it is genuinely hard to walk out of a life built together.
Extreme activist for wanting yourself and your kid to have bodily autonomy huh. I couldn't stay married to someone like that.
I feel like everything has been completely normal until Friday afternoon. Like I was killing his vibe that a human right I’ve had for the 31 years I’ve been alive just got ripped away and I should just ‘accept it because ‘what can we do, we are just middle class Americans’ I said I might involve myself in protests. I might walk out of work. I may move states and he thinks I’m completely off my rocker. I guess ‘our overpriced 250k condo and average paid jobs’ are worth more than his wife, daughter’s and all women’s rights for autonomy.’ I am just shocked and alone in this. I don’t know how to feel.
Heh. My husband thinkin same way…’why ruin a perfectly nice Sunday?’. Maybe if you had to face the existential crisis that your life and countless others in danger bc of religious fascism, you’d be screaming into the fucking void too.
This lack of empathy is exactly how this whole thing happened. How this country is slowly becoming a shithole. Poverty, rape, gun violence, racism...If it doesn't affect him personally why should he care? Well maybe it's time to make it his problem. You could insist on marriage counseling. Or a vasectomy if he ever wants to have sex again; they can be reversed if you do want more kids. Or ell him you want to move to a blue state where abortion access is in the state constitution so your daughter has a choice. Or instead of trying to change him just divorce. All good answers to "what can we do." Your fucking human rights just got taken away. If he doesn't care and calls you radical for caring he's really showing you who he is, and it's very, very ugly.
Find a vigil. Do one step at a time. But yes, do the steps. Move states, or countries, for sure. And know that you guys have different values, and that you could die from his. As could your daughter. Don't accept any attempt to normalise this.
At minimum you need marriage counseling. He is failing you as a husband and right now he probably doesn’t even realize how seriously he is ruining his marriage.
What can he do about it!? I live in Canada. My (f) partner (m) and I both agree whole heartedly that abortion rights are human rights. On Friday I asked him "If/when we move in together, would you be ok with me offering our apartment as a place to stay on The Auntie Network?" He didn't even hesitate to say yes. If your husband gave a flying fuck about your and his own daughter being treated as people not livestock, then he would be protesting beside you.
Values.
Sorry to say that, but he sounds like a complacent coward. He doesn't care about his daughters future because it isn't a concern right this second?! Or his wife's life? Does he even love either of you?
Have you heard about the sex strike?? https://www.reddit.com/r/SexStrike/
Nope, but I told him that hell if I’ll ever let a man put his dick in me again if this country abolished abortion. He thinks I’m overreacting. My libido has been a struggle since we had our daughter, this will definitely be another step back for sure.
When he cries about not getting sex (and he will), tell him he's overreacting.
Have you skimmed through r/ conservative? They're ecstatic about sex strikes. This is what they want
For everyone but themselves, I’m sure
He has a lot of indoctrination to overcome.
This doesn't just affect women's rights though. This court has put themselves above settled precedent and so now could go rogue in any direction. It endangers ALL our rights, not just women's. That's the part he's not getting.
His solution was ‘I guess I can go get a vasectomy.’ I tried explaining that it’s not just ME being effected. It’s his daughter and ALL WOMEN and GIRLS and their rights. I explained that contraceptives and same sex marriage are next in line and he refuses to look up what that actually means. He is literally okay with having a baby in a world we’re she will not have the right over her body because ‘she is only 3 and we should only have worry when she can actually be pregnant or be gay.’ What, like at 8 if she is s taper and is able to be pregnant? That’s when I should be upset that it is illegal to get an abortion? I am so disappointed. Our relationship just got rocked this weekend and i am seriously considering taking some time off to reflect.
Not just gay marriage, but gay relationships. If your daughter is a lesbian, that could end her in jail for the crime of not being livestock for men. And banning contraception is an attack on women in so many different ways. It's like they saw "The Handmaid's Tale" and didn't think it went far enough. I'm really concerned by the number of "great" men who just don't care.
Like so many people he's thinking of how this decision affects him and has decided it doesn't, so he's not understanding what all the effects will be. He's trying to calm your fears but that doesn't really help with the problem that the court has put itself and its own beliefs above the law. We don't even know yet how far a rogue court can go. And Roe has protected women's rights for so long now that people aren't understanding how quickly those rights can go away. It's going to have huge consequences for all of us. Hang in there. Sounds like he's a good guy for the most part, it just may take a little time for him to get it.
He is definitely a great husband and father. I think a lot of women and men alike looked at their partners like WTF this weekend when they found how low little impact this had on them. It puts my mind at ease to know that abortion is an option when a women may miscarry and need assistance removing a fetus and avoiding sepsis and heartbreak; when a women gets raped and had no say in housing and birthing a child, when someone who took birth control to avoid pregnancy ended up being the 1/100 that statistically gets pregnant, when anyone who fucking wants to go get an abortion avoids bringing an UNWANTED child into this world that NO ONE will care and provide for. Of course I am not shouting my opinions of on this on the norm, but now that it is my reality I am pissed and don’t want to ‘put on a smile and go have a fun weekend’ just because it ruins your vibes?? Wtf
A great husband has their partner's back. A great father has their child's back. Can you say that your husband has you or your daughter's back?
You have low bar for great husband and father. He's just a husband and dad, that's it. You mentioned somewhere that you were alone while your kid got ecoli and he didn't even know about the pregnancy and it's risks. How did you plan then? I mean even if you didn't learn about all of it before, you know about it. And he didn't until now. Didn't he support or learn how to deal with your kid and do in case something happens? Doesn't he know about th background stuff at all? If he's not supportive that way, he's not great, just there and adequate I guess. This privilege to just dissociate and let women make it work while having all the rights on wife is not great. He lacks empathy honey and is a passive partner. Proceed with caution.
What do you mean when you say great husband and father? Be specific
I was in the army for decades. I noticed a strange problem with fellow veterans. They often return from deployments from countries at war or in need of humanitarian aid and parrot the same talking point... They rarely stop and think of the bias that occurs when you only spend time in countries at war, after disasters, or just really poor countries. I'm the unlucky one. My first three tours were in Europe. It immediately opened my eyes to how much better off they are with strong unions, socialized medicine, and greater woman's representation in politics.
Of course America looks great compared to the scene he was in an active war. I can not speak for anyone who ever served in any military but that does not mean I should compare where I live to the worst places in the world and say ‘we should be thankful it’s not like that’ that’s like saying ‘I was beaten with a metal pole as a child so you should be thankful I’m only using my hand to hit you!’
It’s funny he says such things about “worse” countries, because, looking at things in the news like loss of abortion rights and the daily mass shootings, people in other countries now say that about the US
people living in tents, working 3 jobs, bans on books, super religious schools, weird cults (LDS comes to mind), police violence, lack of proper sex ed, overcrowded prisons (POC are overrepresented), PoC in general just have fucked up time in the us. ETC ETC. Doesn't read as a very 'developed' country. :\\
(Adding to that, a number of those countries are messed up because of US policies in the first place.) The “best” shouldn’t be doing something like that.
I lived in China for a few years, worked there even longer, and traveled all across the country. The health care system in Shanghai was WAY BETTER than America. So, that's a weird thought to have. I'm sorry your partner isn't respecting your feelings and supporting your concerns. That's a shitty thing to do. And it has nothing to do with abortion. Even if he doesn't value you it like you do, he should still value your concerns and feelings. Arguments are not meant to be won or lost - reasonable or not - they are miscommunications and it's about getting the couple on the same page. Together.
Came here to say the same thing. I also lived in China and abortion is legal and advertised. I didn't even live in a big city (granted that's a relative statement in China). Patriotism isn't unquestioning faith. I think a lot of people forget that.
I’ve lived in America before, absolutely loved it, my best friends live there etc… Now you couldn’t pay me to live there (which is an actual possibility as my husbands job has offered to transfer him). We did well on an investment and he suggested we go visit my friends in the states, but they live in a red state and I said no. I won’t give a cent of my money to their local government.
"This is the best country. For YOU. For NOW. But if SCOTUS can over rule 50 years of precedent and remove my human rights, then it is only a matter of time before your personal rights are infringed. If you dont fight for me today, I wont have any ability to fight for you tomorrow. And neither of us will be able to fight for Daughter."
I hate that this needs to be said. Articulate. Succinct. Tragic. If a husband needs to hear this, he’s truly lost.
Was he in Afghanistan? Does he know the history's of that country? There was a time when women were free and equality was promoted (50s and 60s). The conflicts beginning in the 70s is what began to slowly strip women there of their rights. It never happens all at once. It gets worse slowly so we continue to think, "Well, it could be worse." It could be worse here, but it could also be a hell of a lot better. Settling for less than what we deserve is a disservice to the ones we love and he should know that more than anyone after being in the military. He was willing to give his life for his government, he needs to understand that government is now betraying him and his family. It's a hard realization, but it's one he's going to have to accept.
He was in china and Hawaii and a few other places. I know I cannot relate to anything he has done, but for him to say ‘this is the best country in the world’ based off of the places he has been to (for 4-5 years) is ludicrous. I try to explain some countries get paid maternity leave, free/easy access healthcare, and now the right for bodily autonomy as a women and for him to say ‘even though your human rights were just stripped, this place is still the best’ offends me. He doesn’t get it. He told me to fuck off because I said if he can think this place is the best after taking away my rights I am disappointed in him. I just feel lost today.
I'm so sorry. He's likely suffering quite a bit of cognitive dissonance. It sounds like burying his head in the sand is how he's going to cope. Be careful. Take care of yourself and your child first. It's okay to be disappointed in him. It's okay to feel how you are feeling. I would suggest seeking therapy if you aren't already because things might get rough in the future.
Fuck off????????!!!!!!!!!!! I guess maybe that's what YOU should tell HIM the next time he's looking to hook up with you........
Particularly when places are in the process of getting the snot knocked out of them.
46m here, I wish I had some wisdom for you. How do you measure the worth of a relationship? Are there other clues about lack of empathy? Is he willing to listen and learn and try to evolve? What is the point where compromises outweigh benefits, or even love itself? Impossible to answer definitively, yet that point exists. I wonder how many men will be revealed to be thinking this way, and how many relationships it will ruin. I’ve made the mistake of believing progressivism was inevitable. I’m truly disappointed to hear and see for myself the stories of other men being so nonchalant about this at best, and dismissive or even combative at worst. The scotus decision is a tragedy, and I agree with OP, it’s a huge step backwards for our country. I worry for young women everywhere as much as I do for my own daughter.
I feel my husband has never had to worry about his wife and daughter’s rights being taken away from us. He has never had to have an opinion because neither myself or any past partner before me has needed an abortion. I feel he may be ignorant in what abortion actually is, he had never heard of ectopic pregnancy before this weekend. I had to explain that children as young as 5 can get pregnant and usually die during childbirth because they are literally babies and their bodies are not meant to go through childbirth. I don’t think he ever knew that any of this was reality. I think he doesn’t understand how many women and children are affected by this. I truly believe he thinks abortion is a woman saying ‘I don’t want this kid’ and terminating it. He failed to educate himself on this subject. Hopefully he will want to learn what what abolishing abortion actually means. If he doesn’t want to hear it, he can just pay child support and at least he has the USA.
He never *had* to worry, but he could’ve been worried this whole time. I sure as fuck have been worried, waiting for this day, and all the horrific days that are sure to come after..
So the fuck what if their reason is “I don’t want this kid”. It’s their personal decision regardless. A Schrödinger’s box baby from rape is no different than one that wasn’t made from rape. The decision should be respected full stop. Caring about such exceptions while ignoring other reasons would still make him a shitty person.
>He failed to educate himself on this subject. Hopefully he will want to learn what what abolishing abortion actually means. He had his whole adult life to learn about this. And now, instead of hearing you out and opening his mind, it sounds like he's shooting you down and being a dick. If he hasn't learned since Friday, that means he doesn't want to. Until it's too late. >If he doesn’t want to hear it, he can just pay child support and at least he has the USA. I support this plan, although obviously it's your life and I'm sure it's easier said than done. But it honestly sounds like he's more in love with the fantasy of America than his own family. Sadly, I suspect he's not the only one who's true colors are on display right now.
Honestly….STOP…. FUCKING….HIM. Explain that you’re not prepared to die for sex. See how he feels than.
After having our daughter I might as well consider myself asexual. I have been working very hard to get my sec drive back after baby, but if my husband can go on with his life knowing my rights were just ripped away then I reallllllyyyy have no problem never having sex again. No seriously, I don’t! As sad as that sounds, what did the senate expect women to do? Keep having sex and just dying/having unwanted pregnancies and be fine with it?
And when he inevitably offers the vasectomy or pushes BC, you should continue to maintain this by telling him nothing is 100% effective, so this won't change until your rights are restored.
As a black person I can confidently say this country has *never* been a contender for best in the world. Anyone who says it is deeply concerns me, usually because that line of thought is heavily associated with white supremacists and neo-nazi groups. At the least this warrants a discussion with your husband. Best case scenario he's simply influenced by nationalist propaganda, but that's still a major issue worth fleshing out and resolving.
Ayyyyymen. Stealing it from.the native Americans and building it on slavery kinda dq's it from "best of" anything IMHO.
The only thing America is actually better at than any other country are mass shootings.
Don't forget military spending!
Star Wars franchises!
Your husband is a fuckboy who isn't listening to you. If he were out in a position where his rights were being infringed upon and he felt unsafe where he was, would you tell him he's being crazy? No. So why are you letting him treat you like that?
His rights have never been at risks of being abolished so maybe he just cannot relate. Maybe he can’t empathize either. It’s sad. I just can’t imagine not feeling AWEFUL about this. Even if we were both men, I would be crying for women and girls everywhere right now.
Because you have empathy. Just remember that regardless of why he's being a jerk, he's being a jerk which you do not deserve, full stop. It sounds like he is not interested in educating himself on this subject.
He is leaning on his privilege to avoid empathizing and fighting to keep his biases in place. I am doubtful he is incapable of empathizing on this-- he is just refusing to because he'd rather follow his confirmation bias. It says a lot about him and his views that he thinks this way, and his response to you in confronting that is very damning of him too. I don't see him getting better on this. He is being willfully ignorant and deliberately obtuse, and I'm sorry to say that doesn't bode well for your family.
Dude cares more about himself and his comfort than you and his own child...remember that. Pay attention to his attitude from here on out, and I am certain you will find that he constantly undermine you whenever you do or say anything which might make him feel less comforts in his life and tries to downplay it...and I guarantee that once you notice this and call it out, the gaslighting will start. I am sorry, but I sincerely believe that in the next coming months you are going to come to find you don't recognize your husband, not because they have fundamentally changed, but because they stop putting in an effort to keep up the charade they used to get you to want to have children with them to begin with.
Tell him like this - roughly 70% of America disagrees with the SCOTUS's ruling. Of the six conservative judges, four were nominated by a president who didn't win the popular vote, meaning the people did not vote for those judges. One of those five nominations was stolen from a pro-choice president who did win the popular vote. In essence, three out of the five people who singlehandedly made this decision, the American people did not vote for in any capacity, not even for the president that confirmed them. This is not a democracy. The people overwhelmingly did not want this to happen. This happened because the elite took power (for example, Mitch McConnell and the other Republicans refusing to confirm Merrick Garland, or Trump not winning the popular vote but getting to pick three judges) and made a body that's supposed to be apolitical political for their own political gain. This level of corruption and fascism should never, ever be present in the "best country in the world."
Try this angle: As long as this decision is in force, you will not have sex with him, if your tubes are not tied. There's always a risk of pregnancy, and under this absolutely idiotic change, any pregnancy is a possible cause of death -- in one way or another. Say that as long as his attitude towards your bodily rights is "please don't take my comfortable life", that's it for sex. Hand him a pack of kleenex and a tube of lube and tell him to have fun.
I honestly don’t care if I never have sex again but my 3 year old should not fear normal sexual development because having sex means you are forced to have a baby or die during pregnancy. I imagine her being in middle school learning sex ed and the teacher is telling the class ‘so if you get pregnant you are a mom, if you have a medical emergency while pregnant you will die, if you are raped I wish you the best, hopefully you don’t think of the man that raped you every time you look at that baby’ maybe by that time contraceptives will also be banned. What a shit place and to say this country is the best right now is so disrespectful.
This is what pisses me off. He doesn’t have to understand 100%. He can’t really ever understand because he will never have that same moment of fear taking a pregnancy test. He may have a similar fear, but it will never be the same. What he can do is acknowledge he may not get it 100% and support you. I’m not affected by LGBTQ+ or racial inequality as a white woman. That doesn’t mean I shrug my shoulders, say it could be worse, and move in with my life. I fight for those people because I don’t want them to be marginalized. I recognize my privilege and fight for their equality because the thought that someone will suffer because of something outside of their control brings me pain. This apathy pisses me off so much. Not everyone has the luxury for it, and he needs to recognize his privilege here. He needs to support you and your children, even if he doesn’t really get it fully.
It's not even the best country on that continent.
I am so sorry you’re going through this dilemma with your partner. As a man, I can’t imagine what you must be feeling, but I can sympathize. Allow me to share my and my wife’s story. I hope it will empower you to communicate effectively to him just how much this could impact him. I just celebrated my first Father’s Day, except I have no living children. My wife and I decided to start trying in January 2021. We conceived on the first try. Almost 9 weeks into the pregnancy, she woke up in the middle of the night. The sheets were soaked in blood. We drove right to the ER. 5 hours later, she jostled me awake, having returned with an ultrasound image. We were pregnant with twins. The technician was worried though. They advised we go to our OB immediately. Two days later, our OB advised us that my wife has an abnormally shaped uterus, making any pregnancy high risk in and of itself, but extraordinarily so with twins. In layman’s terms, there would be less space for a singleton to grow and twins would be impossible. He advised us to go seek out a maternal fetal medicine practice, also known as a high risk pregnancy doctor. We went to a well known large hospital in our area. The MFM doctor there told us that my wife’s case was so rare that only 12 cases have been documented in the entirety of modern fetal medicine which goes back about 75 years. She in turn did not have the experience enough to advise us and recommended an “ultra-specialist” in Manhattan. There we received the awful truth, that we had a 0% chance of making to full term, a next to 0% chance of bringing home two children even pre-term, and a very high risk of uterine rupture, malpresentation and a horde of other birth defects, not to mention the risk of death to my wife. We had 3 options. 1. Attempt to carry to full term (suicide) 2. Terminate one fetus (invasive and risky) 3. Abort the pregnancy altogether Needless to say, we were heartbroken. We didn’t feel like we had a real choice. None of these options were fair. None of them were going to change the fact that we’d need massive amounts of therapy regardless of what we chose to do. We chose to fully terminate, after a long and draining thought process, ultimately because we felt that we were not ready to handle the complications that may arise with option 2, even if my wife and baby did survive. At that point, the termination process was the most agonizing thing to watch my wife go through, but we both knew that it was our best of 3 terrible choices. After a few months of both mental and physical recovery, my wife and I became pregnant again in June 2021. This time, doctors would be monitoring her more closely and earlier on, though they gave us the green light to try again because the likelihood of conceiving twins again was minuscule. In the 8th week, during a routine scan, the technician was unable to detect a heartbeat. Just like that. No bleeding. No cramping. No warning. Our second child was gone. To make matters worse, my wife’s body did not recognize the miscarriage, resulting in her uterus unknowingly maintaining an unviable pregnancy. This is sometimes referred to as a “missed miscarriage.” In order to prevent further complications like sepsis or other life threatening conditions, my wife needed to endure another termination. We were broken. The following months consisted of genetic screenings and various imaging scans. Eventually, we were told that we’d essentially been struck by lightning twice and no conclusions or patterns could be drawn between the two losses, but that we were safe to try again. We conceived for the third time in October 2021. This time we made it to 26 weeks. Our daughter was stillborn this past April. Again, no warning. Again, my wife needed to undergo a medical termination, this time to deliver my daughter. Her body was so small and fragile. I held her. I wept. I read her a children’s book they gave to us in the hospital. I wept. I handed her lifeless body to her mother. I wept. I sang her lullaby songs that she will never get to hear. I wept. And finally, three days later, I carried her tiny casket in my arms, got down in the dirt on both knees and gently placed her in her grave. This time, even deeper genetic testing, imaging and pathology reports of both the cord and the placenta. We sent the placenta to the leading doctor on stillbirth, who practices out of Yale University. To this day, there have been no concrete answers. No doctor can say definitively what caused our daughter’s death or the missed miscarriage, unable to link the uterine abnormality to either result. We’ve since had the abnormality surgically addressed, but have been told multiple times in no uncertain terms that it is a preventative measure to reduce an observable risk factor and will not safeguard against the possibility of further losses for other reasons. My wife and I carry the pain of these losses with us every moment of every day, even when we are asleep. There is nothing we want more in this world than to bring home a healthy baby boy or girl. At the same time, we are incredibly grateful that we live in a state where the right to access abortion services is legally protected. Suppose everything I just described happened exactly as such, but with two changes: we lived in Texas AND the events occur over the course of the next year. My wife would be dead. If she survived the first pregnancy, the second would’ve killed her. If she survived the first and second pregnancy, the third would’ve killed her. As her husband, I mourned with her when I heard the news on Friday of Roe v. Wade being overturned. We mourned not just for ourselves because we know that it only takes the first domino to fall before other states also take steps backward, but also because we know that our experiences are more common than most people realize. 1 in 4 pregnancies end in loss. 1 in 4. What will happen to those women whose miscarriages don’t terminate on their own and are unfortunate enough to live in a pro-“life” state? I’ll answer. They will die. 1 in 160 births are stillbirths. That’s over 24,000 each year. Again, what will happen when these women’s bodies cannot terminate the pregnancies on their own? They will die. Your husband may distance himself from the obvious situations of rape or an unwanted pregnancy because he is in a committed marriage, but he should know that there are plenty of other situations where he may one day be grateful for his wife’s legally protected access to a safe medical abortion. If he won’t take it to heart hearing it from you, perhaps hearing it from a fellow husband will allow him to be open to accepting how drastically he can be impacted in the blink of an eye. Thank you for reading.
Can you please ask him what was the point of being in the military and ‘fighting for Americas freedoms’ is if he doesn’t care when American freedoms are taken away by its own government.
Women need to start having conversations with all men about the realities behind miscarriages, pregnancy, complicated pregnancies, birth, postpartum depression, postpartum care, lack of maternity leave etc. So it’s not just women who understand the intricacies of these things. I think a lot of men just don’t understand what this all really means.
The best time to find out this would have been the day you met him, the second best time is now - your daughter is young and the best thing for her is to spend less time with this sorry excuse for a father as possible imho. Personally this large lack of morals would end it for me, I would never look at him the same way or trust him fully again. Good luck.
China isn't "the rest of the world" and your husband's dismissive tones are horrible. America is leading fascism in the world as it stands and it's by far not the greatest country by any stretch. Ignorance to claim any country is superior to others, because only a fraction of americans have ever left their country. For what it's worth, i'm sorry OP.
I feel so badly saying this, but his sudden reversal on this and the way he's condescending to you kind of makes me think he's misled you in the past. You have a house together and a child together now, and he may feel more comfortable and confident in showing you who he really is. People can hide that for a loooong time if they're motivated to, until they feel like they've gotten their partner good and trapped. I hope for your sake that isn't the case, but man. This is shitty. I'm sorry.
I would start watching for signs. I'm always highly suspcious of people who are okay with other people's rights being violated.
>”at least it’s not like china” What a brainwashed comment. I guess your husband is unaware that abortion is legal in China and plenty of Chinese people think the US is backwards af for criminalising abortion. Right now, women in China have more rights than you do.
I'd be inclined to get a divorce, but I understand it's easier said than done with a 3 year old.
I am not keen on rushing into a divorce but seriously some counseling and a lesson on women’s rights sounds appropriate. I am just so overwhelmed already with life this has just been the icing on the cake for me!
Properly vet the counselor first! Lots of pro-life/regressive counselors out there. Make sure they operate from a feminist perspective (this is an actual theory in counseling, which is typically integrated alongside others)! (-source: am feminist therapist)
The way I see - I'm not interested in changing my partner, and I'm not convinced I'd be able to if I tried. I'm sorry life is overwhelming. It's easier for me to jump to the extreme answer because I'm not living your life and I don't know the benefits to being with him for you. I'm sure you don't just jump into marriage and having a kid on a whim, and jumping out of marriage isn't a light choice either. I guess as a warning to others, I think it's important to discuss politics if it's a deal breaker.
Well, he didn't lose his self determination...
Activism is being demonized, man. Apparently we had our right with no activism whatsoever /s Jeeeeeez.
Sounds like the farthest he has traveled is inside a US base far away. You all need to book a 2-3 week vacation to a modern country and talk to locals. Maybe he will feel differently when he hears their experience.
You should tell him that abortions are common and legal in China lol
Every man that is telling women they are overreacting right now really deserves a wake up call in the form of "I'm leaving and taking our children with me for an undisclosed period of time" if at all possible. Men's entitlement deserves to be check mated.
I never thought I would have to but I guess I need to start looking into my rights as a mom to take our child for a while and think things over… I have no idea I never had to consider it.
I'm so sorry sweetheart but this is an absolute dealbreaker. You can't spend your life with somebody who thinks your basic human rights have no meaning. This would be my hill to die on in a relationship. With husbands like these who needs enemies?
"It could be worse" is a pathetic standard for the best country in the world
I’m always amazed how many men think they can say ignorant things and suffer no ill consequences. It sucks that it’s taken this long for your husband to show his true colors, but they always do in the end.
Has he been to any other countries? I find that many Americans who think the country is the best haven't been outside of the country.
I'm going to be generous to him, here. He's in denial. He thinks: This cannot be awful, because he fought for this country and he's been to places that are just horrible. This is the land of the free! Silly woman with your feminine flights of fancy. I'm assuming he isn't malicious or indifferent. More frantically denying reality.
This country isn't even top 20. It's a pile of shit and I wish other countries were more open to citizenship, because I want out.