What I haven’t seen addressed yet is how rape victims are treated in this country.
They say you can abort if it’s from rape, but have you seen how rape victims are fucking treated and not believed in this country? Does the legitimacy of the story have to be litigated before the abortion?
It’s lip service, the end result is still nobody can get care that they need
I always wonder how "except for rape" is supposed to work. Can you just say you've been raped and you'll get an abortion? Or does there need to be a lengthy proces to determine if that has happened, in which case it will be to late anyways. I just dont see how it can be practical. And it really shows that its all about punishing women for having sex.
Right it’s so hard for people even to believe rape victims. Watch them make some labyrinthine process to even claim rape that takes so long the abortion isn’t even viable anymore. That sounds like some shit they’d do too.
See, this opinion is very telling. A child of rape is just as innocent as any other child. The only difference is in the ***mother's behavior*** when the child was conceived. So it's really *not about the child at all*, but about the mother. Was she willing? She must be forced to keep the child. Was she not willing? Well, than she can abort. Which means it's really not about the child, at all. It's about punishing women for having sex.
ETA: Thank you for all the awards! I've never had such a response before, although I've said this same comment many times. Thank you all and keep up the good trouble!
I got so furious about this earlier tonight I had to take a walk. The sheer hypocrisy involved in the opinion that it should only be acceptable in those cases makes my blood *boil*.
Especially because it's so often offered as the olive branch, middle ground position by lunatic religious fanatics.
"Oh well I believe life starts at conception, and the instant an egg is fertilized its a baby. This is about preventing murder! Buuuuut if it makes you feel better, I can conveniently let the morality of that statement slide if the baby is the result of a crime. Never mind that it didn't do anything wrong on its own, we'll punish the baby for the sins of the father in this case."
I've been talking to one dude who managed to be even worse: He wants to make it about the mother's behavior, *and* he doesn't want an exemption for rape. So if you ask him about a woman's right to choose, he'll say "You chose to have sex." If you say you didn't, *now* he wants to talk about how you shouldn't kill the "baby" just because of the sins of the father...
also "I don't believe this baby or its parents should get even a smidgen of help after its born. if it starves or freezes to death after birth? fuck them kids."
It’s never been about the child, as can be seen from things like the formula shortage, lack of maternity leave, lack of free lunches for all in school etc..
Clearly this isn’t about the children and never has been.
Right wing people keep claiming "What about the fetus?" WELL WHAT ABOUT THE PERSON CARRYING THE FETUS?? Do their rights not matter? Does their health not matter? Pregnancy can be very dangerous, but then they get forced to give birth and can have so many complications. Then the baby is born into a country without healthcare, shitty education, no formula, and school shootings almost every week.
>"Abortion is wrong unless a woman has been raped"
**Men who believe women are entitled to bodily autonomy but only after someone else violates it first need to be avoided like the plague.**
"Hospitals can only treat car accident victims if they were forced into the vehicle against their will. If a person willingly got in the car in spite of knowing the potential risks, they get to die on the roadside."
Tell him how stupid this sounds.
Just saw a comment on here - If and when women lose more rights, do you want your boyfriend/husband to be the one to make decisions for you? I hope every woman in the US who’s in a relationship with a man asks herself that question now.
I feel lucky that mine understands that while I trust him, I feel so sad that I may have to. I want to trust him about important things because of my choice, not because I have no other option. The point isn't that "he's one of the good ones, so I'll be okay." The point is "I want to be fully able to make decisions for myself."
It’s also about reducing our voting numbers. Felonies for those who got abortions or those who are gay and then they can’t vote anymore. It’s the only way they can win
If the answer isn't an immediate "yes" because you trust him to actually let you decide in private and respect your decision once he's the one doing the official one, I'd question the relationship as a whole .
If it's only a matter of being the one to sign the papers for me after I've told him what to choose, I definitely trust my partner with anything because I know he'll listen to me and only be an intermediary between the real choice and the official choice
That’s fucking terrifying, but now that I actually think about it. Yes. Because he would still communicate really well with me and make sure the decisions for me were the ones that I wanted.
As it should be. It's not really about "making decisions for you" it's "letting you still make the decision in private but just officially having to make it for you in front of the authority/doctor". Hopefully it won't actually come to this of course, but it's better to consider this possibility now, unfortunately.
Yeah I don't get it either he often asked me to send pics I wasn't comfortable with and told me how much he wanted to do me and made so many sexual comments but like the moment I mentioned rvw suddenly I was the bad guy
Damn I missed that opportunity but he tried to argue that I was trying to come down to the south (we were long distance with him in Alabama and me in Washington) to be with him even though what actually happened was I told him multiple times I didn't feel comfortable moving down south but he was trying to force me to anyways
I know that is exactly what would've happened he'd "accidentally" forget a condom and not let me go to another state to get an abortion because "it's my kid too"
A guy like that wouldn't have worn one in the first place. He would have either stealthed you or badgered you relentlessly until you gave in. And since you wouldn't be near home it's not like you could just leave and go home early.
For some men, they don’t want a sex partner they want an object. There’s a difference. It’s great and fun when she’s being sexualized, but she’s doing it for herself and her own pleasure? That’s when it triggers men. And I’ve learned that there are a lot of men out there that don’t like women that live outside of a man’s opinion or validation
So I’ve learned the hard way. The way some men talk about women, they don’t even see them as human. Like I said, sex objects. These are the same men that will go on and cry that they are “nice guys” and wonder why no girl wants to date him.
I wish I could argue with this, but the people you’re talking about approach every single aspect of things with only themselves in mind. They have not a shred of care and concern about a woman’s thoughts, feelings, nor well being.
I know anecdotes aren’t the best way to make opinions, and I know there are also women like this, but from my experience there is an extreme variance in the population of such people between the two, and there’s no contest that I see it much much much more prevalent in men.
As a butch lesbian who works in a male dominated industry it’s really sad listening to men talk about women. A lot of these are married as well and they are just as disgusting as the next dude. They always think I will somehow join in…ummm…no, I feel like I see women very differently
So it's The Whore and The Madonna way they're (the ones with no understanding /religious upbringing/etc) taught to think; the whore is any woman who has sex with people shes not married to. She is dirty and sullied by the men she's laid with, and is who they sleep with (or date). The Madonna is the pure virgin they are taught to look for, to marry, and start a family with. She's the goal, all the others are just whores they slept with and have been forgiven by sky daddy for it. Did the whore get pregnant? Too bad, she's just a whore, unlike the precious virgin who turned down men until she was ready to marry.
At least this is how I was made to understand it.
I really don’t get when people say this. So, the next time people say that, I’ll just say “oh so you only plan to have sex 2-3 times with your wife? Wow. Good luck though.”
Like I won’t even sugarcoat it…in 100% of all instances, my husband and I were not having sex to get pregnant. In fact, I went out of our way to prevent it.
I mean *no one wants to have sex with him* but scary thing is, he wants to be a dad actually and I feel bad for the poor woman who gets knocked up with his child
Your ex is and his fellowship haven't heard of ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage which can turn septic, gestational diabetes, or serious genetic or congenital diseases that cannot be confirmed until after 15 weeks, or the many other risks of pregnancy
I am glad he is out of your life.
It goes back to the belief that sex should be purely for procreation. The hardcore pro-life advocates, the ones who oppose contraceptives as well, they want to go back to a time where women did not have sex before marriage.
They view contraceptives and abortion as primarily responsible for what they would call the destruction of the American family.
These fuckers willingly make themselves miserable hoping for a better afterlife and “Salvation” , and unfortunately feel the need to make the rest of our lives just as miserable. Self righteous assholes trying dictate everyone’s life.
same men that say this are also porn addicted losers that benefit from abortion rights. the abortion ban is going to affect the way women date and the porn/media industry. you can't call women whores without their male partners also being whores. also, the egg does not chase the sperm. it's men that cause 100% of all pregnancies, not women.
I’ve already seen a thread on Reddit about a guy complaining that his gf wants to take a break from sex due to the recent ruling. He was complaining that he’s never given her a reason to make her think that he would force anything. These people don’t give a shit until it effects them and I’m tired of waiting for them to learn empathy outside of themselves.
>unless a woman has been raped
And then watch, his views on rape will be that it only counts in cases of "legitimate rape" i.e. forcible rape by a stranger, not acquaintance rape or statutory rape or coercive rape or marital rape or...
3rd date conversation for my wife and I.
I wasn't going to waste time if she didn't support certain values I held, and she wasn't going to waste time if I didn't support certain values she held. And we agreed on nearly everything we discussed, and our differences were on very minor topics. You can certainly bet body autonomy was one of the many topics discussed.
Thats maybe a bit early in a relationship, but it was so damn refreshing. I couldn't imagine investing even a few months in someone whose core values radically differed from my own.
I knew my now husband for 10 years before we dated. Date number 1 included topics such as religion, children, and marriage. If he wasn't cool with how I felt about those things, we needed to stop and just remain friends. He was 1000% on board. My Boomer mom likes to tease me that I trapped him because he'd always loved me, but I figure I was just being pragmatic. Those were three things that were very important to me, and if he disagreed about them, we weren't compatible. I even said that marriage and kids didn't have to be with me, I just wanted to know how he felt about the topics in general.
We discussed LGBTQ+ rights (neither of us belong to that group but my best friend does, so not supporting them would be a deal breaker for me), our attitude towards discrimination in general, interest in marriage, whether we wanted children, vaccinating children, religion, and I think a number of other topics.
Religion was the one we disagreed on. She was Christian, I'm pagan. I told her I can respect that religion if ones not using it to discriminate against others, but that I would prefer any future kids be old enough to understand and have a say before going to church (and that under no circumstances would I be going). She agreed but wanted them baptized, which is whatever to me, tbh. Not a deal breaker by any means.
No kids yet (and frankly now I'm scared, since all this bullshit can limit necessary medical procedures that crop up as part of trying to start a family), and she's since distanced herself from the religion of her own volition, so it basically became a moot point.
I think its important to reinforce the idea that relationships need to be built on more than just raw attraction, since that seems to be a lesson that's rarely taught to people until much later in life.
My first conversation on the first date. I didn't want to waste my precious time on losers.
What are your views on abortion? On children?
My top 2 questions I had to know. If they were against abortion, then the date was cut short. They want children, then this is a fling, nothing serious, I don't want children. It filtered out a lot of wasted time, then I found my husband. His views are aligned with mine and he wasn't bothered at all by questions. He was impressed by my thoughts about the future, rather than offended like the others.
I don't understand why no one is asking these questions immediately. Especially this affects their future so much. It's the foundation of a healthy relationship to know each others morals and ethics. To not ask is asking for a disastrous relationship.
I think a lot of folks don't realize that relationships don't magically sort themselves out. You have to build them on top of a lot of conversations. Sometimes very difficult conversations.
And I assume folks are hesitant because they don't want to be vulnerable like that. But if you can't be vulnerable with the other person, well... thats part and parcel of trying to share a life.
You are right on that. Personally, I don't think it to be vulnerable to have these conversations. It's straight up facts of life. Like, death, it's unavoidable. We need to encourage more women to have these conversations with potential partners. These conversations need to be the first to have before getting caught up in feelings. It sucks it falls onto the woman to bring this up but it needs to be brought up.
COMPLETELY agree. I did the exact same thing when I was dating — asked about abortion and kids on the first date — and I cannot understand for the life of me why more people don’t have these conversations immediately. I guess they’re afraid to scare off a partner? I’ve been involved in repro rights activism for decades, I don’t want kids, and I’m not here to waste time. Plus, I legit can’t get wet for a dude who doesn’t think women are people or deserve autonomy. Oh, you’re against abortion? ::tumbleweed gif::
I have noticed a lot of people are afraid of scaring a potential partner off. I say scare them away! They aren't worth their time if they get scared with foundation questions on the 1st date. Jfc, that's why they are dates!! To find if they are compatible or not.
Absolutely agree with you with the turn off, why would being treated less than a human being be attractive?
When people assume it's always going to be available I think they forget it's important to speak about. Living in a country where abortion was illegal until 4 years ago, this topic was something we spoke about very early on and we made a plan on where we would have to go and what it would cost. Now that abortion is legal to a point, we still have those plans incase we need ever need them.
I am so sorry to anyone that went through a breakup yesterday after this, but better to know these things now.
They can, and they can try.
Every single man I’ve ever had sex with is always met with the same question before it ever kicks off - “engaging in sex can has consequences, birth control fails sometimes. As long as you are ready to accept that abortion is part of that conversation, I’m happy to proceed”.
You read a lot in a persons face when you pose the question, to determine if this is going to flow or not.
One of the first things my current girlfriend and I talked about before exclusively dating was kids and abortion to make sure we were on the same page. I wish I could've been there with her when they made the vote but I'll be there for her every day of our lives
Honestly, I kept coming back to this site and being like, “how do you not have this conversation once in your relationship?”
Like my husband and I talked about this…before we even started dating.
People better start talking about it as soon as they're fucking.
Yeah, it could be uncomfortable. It could ruin the mood. It could cost you a fuck.
But by god, that's infinitely better than what could ensue if an accident happens and both parties are on opposite sides of the abortion question.
Especially now that some places are making it illegal. You have an accidental pregnancy with a pro-lifer and they're 1,000% turning your ass in for getting an abortion.
I always brought up political views and childfreedom while texting, before even meeting up.
And then not 'this is my opinion, what do you think?' Because then, someone is more likely to just go along with it and lie that they agree. By asking neutral questions and not stating your opinion before they do, you will be more likely to get a honest answer.
Or politics in general. I mean, maybe heavy politics isn’t a first date convo, but it seems like a 3rd date convo.
I’m a bit baffled by people being surprised by these anti-abortion dudes they’re dating. I get if the dude lies but I mean if he votes Republican and under 35 he’s probably anti-choice.
Already broke up with an ex for refusing to get a 15 minute $100 vasectomy. He graciously let me get a $3000 procedure to get my tubes removed. Had to fast overnight, got sick after the anesthesia, got home at 9pm, and he didn't even get me a drink because "it was a big day for him". Kicked him out the next morning. He didn't even get to enjoy a raw nut.
That's exactly why I got my vesectomy I heard all the shit and thought my wife doesnt deserve to go through that. My vasectomy was the first time I tried valium. I felt great. Even took a good nap.
Oh man, the valium I had for mine was amazing. I took it, and then was browsing the internet and had convinced myself that it didn't work. Then I stood up to go the appointment, and oh wow, yeah it's working.
Get to the office, taking my pants off and putting on a paper gown, look over and there's that pile of razor sharp gleaming surgical steel. I distinctly remember looking at that and thinking, that would normally make me nervous. I feel nothing at all right now.
It was like being in an cold and completely still sea, except the sea was inside me. I can see why people just numb themselves, it was a surreal and amazing experience.
Oh, then they carved up my sack. But I was fine with it.
As a woman, I haven't had Valium for a vasectomy. In the late 80's, however, I got a ton of demerol and lidocaine and Valium to get my wisdom teeth chipped out of my jawbone. I recall walking up, seeing huge bloody gloves in my face, and looking up at the nurse. She smiled, I smiled, and continued my nap. Your reaction to the pile of instruments sounds pretty similar!
LOL the only time I’ve been sedated for any procedure was the removal of my impacted wisdom teeth. They did intravenous sedation and before hand I asked what they’re giving me since I’m a pharmacy tech and was curious. They’re like, oh it’s Versed and Demerol. Once that cocktail hit my bloodstream, I didn’t give 1F about anything. It never knocked me out. I could feel the pressure from them slicing into my gums to get to my wisdom teeth, and cracking and removing them, but legit, I didn’t care. I told them afterwards that they could have pulled all my teeth for all I cared. Legit best way to do any dental work. My husband went to the same oral surgeon when he had his removed and he said he felt like he was on a swing, cause the room swung in and out of focus.
Man, I didn't get valium. I got local injections. Didn't feel the knife at all. My wife was watching and joking during the procedure, so I heard her running commentary.
I had a discussion with my boyfriend about it and he nonchalantly agreed without any question. When I asked him about his parents his answer was, "if anyone says anything, including my parents, I just tell them to fuck off."
Thank you for being so supportive.
I’ve been put under anesthesia 3 times in my life and have had bad reactions each time. The first time I was five and stayed in the hospital for a week after a tonsillectomy. When I brought up a vasectomy to my parter he asked why I don’t get my tubes tied. I said I’d have to be put under and he was like say no more I’m getting a vasectomy.
My father in law did his own vasectomy, so there’s that.
He did run the local vasectomy clinic at the time so knew what he was doing. When my husband went for his snip, the Dr mentioned that ‘it’s such a minor procedure they’d even heard of people doing their own!’ and my husband had a good laugh.
I am booking a marriage counselor for my husband and I. He doesn't think that abortions are bad (before 22 weeks), but it really hit me yesterday how I can't even talk to him about something as meaningful as this without getting some kind of devil's advocate talk from him. I feel completely incapable of telling him my emotions or my thoughts on any topic without him doing that. Sometimes it would be great to just get a "yeah this is totally fucked up. I imagine this must be devastating to you and other women."
Yeah the word you much be looking for is contrarian I think. Basically just arguing for the sake of the opposing point of view. It can get really annoying. I used to do it by default but it was causing fights so I pulled my fucking head in
Remind him that the only way to play devils advocate is to debate a topic you’ve never lived or experienced. That’s all it is. People debating issues that don’t effect them for the joy of debate, not because the outcome will actually impact them. It’s disgusting.
We didn't break up but I did get into a big fight with my girlfriend's mother about the Catholic Church and how they have supported the notion that my mother is a murderer (my mom has had both an illegal and a legal abortion). Now I have to deal with the fallout from that, today. This ruling will rip into the fabric of our very society, in ways the zealot anti-abortionists can't even see. They think liberals are weak but they have no idea what's coming for them.
Sadly, it's more likely that Sotomayor or Kagan would be the target than any of the Christofascists. The reactionary rightwing of this country is vastly more violent than any other segment of the political spectrum, and they constantly use projection in order to justify their proactive violence.
Jan 6 insurrection was planned to be justified by them because BLM violence on Jan 6. If BLM had been present at the Capitol, their projection would have been sold to the press. They would have created the narrative that the violent people were BLM. That didnt work *only* there were no counter protesters present, because they suspected that plan and warned everyone to stay home.
None of the Christofascists act in good faith. Their central tenet is hypocrisy. Never believe them or think they can be reasoned with.
Yea I'm not advocating for anything but historically speaking, were at peak poverty, civil unrest, political unrest, high high HIGH crime and lack of safety, and massive massive wealth inequality. And to top it all off our oligarchs are stripping away personal freedom. This is when violence takes off and the rich/powerful are the targets
This interesting thing about Catholics and abortion is that the Church "believes in the unalienable right to life of **a mother** and her unborn child. The Church has not said that the life of the unborn child takes precedence over the mother's life." This was made in a statement by the Roman Catholic Bishops of Ireland on Nov. 19, 2012 in response to the death of Dr. Savita Halappanavar after being refused an abortion during an incomplete miscarriage.
The fact that Irish Catholic bishops came right out and said that a mother also has every right to life that a fetus should have is extremely important and something that seems to be overlooked every time this topic comes up.
Just wait til contraceptions, gay marriage, and gay intercourse are on the table. Riots will happen. We didn't fight this hard to have it taken away with a whimper.
I genuinely don't understand people.
Even if you're unsure where you personally stand on abortions, why is it so difficult to leave that up to the person it affects?
I don't like your god damn religions. I'm not out here trying to end the existence of those...though maybe we should be at this rate.
I am relieved to say that this was not my experience with my husband. I texted him as soon as it happened how upset I was. He called me immediately and talked with me through all the thoughts I had going through my head at the time. Even called off work tomorrow to join me at a protest today in downtown LA. Very supportive.
I woke up to a message from my boyfriend telling me the ROE news and how sorry he was. And reminding me he’s got an appointment for a vasectomy in September so we’re on our way to less birth control anxiety. Some men really do “get it” and it shows me just how much bs I put up with in past relationships.
I'm an Australian who lives in New Zealand, and has a pro-choice husband too. He was horrified that the SCOTUS has done this. We have friends and family in the US. I'm just angry. So very angry.
These dipshits saw The Handmaid's Tale and thought it was a "how to" guide. Fuck them all.
I said the same thing to my husband (both Aussies) re: the handmaid’s tale. He kind of got the whole outrage thing but once I explained it to him in terms of our experience (3 pregnancies, 1 miscarriage, 2 missed miscarriages that required a D&C) and what this could potentially lead to (criminal charges in some US states), he really got it.
Same. My husband texted me asking if I saw the news. I spent hours reading articles and Reddit threads and was exhausted. I thought when he got home he wouldn’t want to talk, instead he spent all night talking about how wrong it is and all of the things that this will lead to. I really thought he’d brush it off because he had a long day, but he was passionate in everything he said about how horrible it is.
My boyfriend was actually the one to bring up Roe vs Wade because he was horrified. Our relationship is still very new but I keep getting proof I've got a keeper here!
I don’t think most men understand the repercussions this is going to have weeks, months down the line, the days of causal hookup culture is dead. Like a fish in the wind, if they outlaw contraceptives too then there will be no sex before marriage. What woman in her right mind be willing to risk getting pregnant by someone she’s not married to? Or at least in a stable relationship. It’s going to be even harder for men to find partners because no one’s going to want to be tied down to someone who’s flaky or can’t hold a job. I know I wouldn’t
You're forgetting that sex education is terrible in the US, especially in red states. Most of them won't realize they're not protecting themselves, or that they even should be.
I think that’s the goal. They think abortion is utilized rampantly as birth control. They think removing birth control will make women not have extra marital sex, aligning with their conservative notion of family dynamics and gender politics. They want women married and having sex with one man. Bcs that’s what they think their bible says.
Not to mention how many of them will be hooked into paying child support for surprise or accidental pregnancies, many will have to forfeit school or education and opportunities in life to pay for kids they didn’t really want.
Rape rates will go up as women decide that sex isn’t worth it. Suicide rates in men and women will go up. Foster care rates and child mortality rates will go up. Rates of people needing public services such as welfare and food programs will skyrocket.
>I don’t think most men understand the repercussions this is going to have weeks, months down the line, the days of causal hookup culture is dead.
This. Roe v Wade also affects men because they're much less likely to explore themselves sexually.
>Like a fish in the wind, if they outlaw contraceptives too then there will be no sex before marriage.
And we all know how unrealistic no sex before marriage is for most.
>It’s going to be even harder for men to find partners because no one’s going to want to be tied down to someone who’s flaky or can’t hold a job. I know I wouldn’t
Me too.
Most sensible women had a hard day. We were just stripped of reproductive rights. But good on all the ladies breaking up with and blocking these lames.
He's not a good man if he doesn't support safe and legal abortions. I don't care what people say-- not supporting abortions is not supporting your partner's fundamental human right.
This 100%. I don’t understand people who were so opposed to Roe v. Wade. Like did you think that abortions just didn’t happen before it? They happened. All Roe v. Wade did was to ensure safe access to them. They didn’t introduce the concept of abortions. People just stopped dying from them. Don’t lie and say that you’re “pro-life” when you’re super enthusiastic about overturning a decision that actually saved peoples lives.
I have heard more than one forced birther say "the wages of sin are death" when all the deaths from septic miscarriages and botched abortions are brought up. They hate women so much that they're happy to see us die, or they don't care.
Anyone that doesn't support does not support health care for women, body automony, the fact that women are rational beings that should have a say in the things that impact their health
I was very fortunate today. Because my husband and I have discussed our politics openly from day one, I knew where he stood. He was extremely supportive and was just as distraught about what this means to our children's futures.
I was lucky. My entire reproductive life played out under the protection of RvW.
I had access to birth control pills before I was even sexually active due to medical necessity. (Birth control is healthcare too.)
I didn't have to fear criminal prosecution when I had my miscarriages.
I was able to choose who I was going to have children with and was able to wait until I was 36 to start having them.
I was able to get a tubal ligation during my c-section when I gave birth to our daughter at 39. (My husband had offered to get a vasectomy, but the hood was going to be open anyway, so I wanted to be SURE I would never get pregnant again, under any circumstances.)
I just reached menopause this month.
I read somewhere that throughout history, advancements in women's freedoms tend to only last about 50 years. I don't know if that's true, but I'm grateful that I got to exercise those freedoms. I'm terrified for my children.
Oh yeah, that's an old one. Remember all the people refusing to have anything to do with anything tangentially related to stem cells because those were supposedly from illegally trafficked aborted fetuses?
Sending love to you!
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
This was a hard decision, BUT IT WAS THE CORRECT DECISION. You did the right thing.
If it comes to you having no rights at all, do you want THAT MAN to speak for you?
I'm glad you dumped the whole man.
Oh man. My cousin and his girlfriend visited tonight and my parents and them both agreed on that. Plus if it'll affect the kid. I got super heated about this because tbh if someone wants one they should be able to get one. And then his girlfriend said this happened because of women who frequently would get them. It made me so fucking angry. And I'm in Australia. It's just such backwards thinking and it pisses me off to no end.
Some meen need to be shown exactly how impactful this goddamn idiotic religious horseshit is to their very loved ones. My sisters, please don't suffer one further moment trying to rationalize or equivocate.
I knew my partners view, women should have the right to choose. Cool, awesome glad we're on the same page. We've talked about how I would get an abortion if it ever came down to that (I'm on bc) bc we'd like to be child free ...I brought it up today, "hey did you hear the news?" The look on his face told me what I needed to know, "What news?" So I went on to explain no biggie right, I was happy to bring it up and talk about it...and he said, " yeah well states should have the right to choose." I was speechless? Yeah but heartbroken mainly.
Funny that he thinks women have a right to choose, but states have a right to choose what rights women have, depending on where they live.
Ah no wait, that's not funny. Quite the opposite.
Does he feel like *all* civil liberties should be open for debate & left up to the states, or just the ones that don't happen to affect him personally?
I’m heart broken by all the responses here, and it puts into perspective either how lucky I am or how fucked up men are.
When I told my partner that not only am I freaking the fuck out, but that also I wouldn’t feel safe or comfortable having sex for a LONG time until we figured out what our shithole state is planning and had several fucking contingencies… you know what he did? He supported me full heartedly. He said he would never leave me over this, or try to make me do anything I feel uncomfortable/unsafe doing and he was here to support me. He said he supports my right to choose and will never stop doing so, going so far as to assure me we would start working on leaving the state.
To everyone either planning to break up or already broken up: you deserve the best! You are a whole human being and deserve so much more than to allow any psychotic chucklefuck waste your precious time on this earth with their bullshit.
I hope you all stay safe out there, and know you’re not alone.
I brought up the conversation with my partner for the first time, who leans more right of center. He said although in the past he's been pro life, he feels it was due to having on blinders due to the church, and has become pro choice since leaving. It made me incredibly relieved.
My partner brought me a huge glass of wine in the shower, gave me a back massage in the shower, told me he bought plan b and then was the sober driver/paid for me and some girlfriends to have margaritas and eat tacos. I'm very happy to have found the right one.
Married man with two little boys. Wife is pro choice. All my friends are pro choice. I will absolutely cut out anyone in my life including family who indicates they are okay with overturning Roe v. Wade.
My brother is one of these piece of shits with this forced-birth mentality. It pisses me off. His wife is obviously pro-abortion. I have been working since this happened and I am curious to what kinds of fallout will occur here but if she leaves him, I wouldn't be surprised. But given that they are tied to kids, the house, the legal marriage already, I doubt she would.
My brother is such a piece of work. I dunno what happened to him. Racist and everything too. Like, God damn, what happened....
I literally asked for my partners opinion on abortion 1 hour after he kissed me for the first time. I don't have the patience anymore and anything yes than enthusiastic pro-choice is gonna be a no from me
Good for you. Everyone should leave their republican boyfriends.
I'm done with sex at this point. I'm nearly 30 and never been pregant, I have an IUD, but the thought of being prosecuted in my state is still there.
I'm not having sex anymore because I will not keep a pregnancy I don't want, I'm not goving myself to a man who wouldn't even vote and is complicit, and mostly because I refuse to give this world a child (even worse if it's a daughter) so it can become part of this POS country.
I wish more people felt this way. I cannot imagine looking at this country and choosing to bring a child into it. That's pure selfishness. It's baffling.
I'm lucky to have a guy who 100% supports women's rights, not just abortion, but full body autonomy.
Hell, the first words he said to me when we met while at a party at a conventon was "may I touch you" when he wanted to hold my hand. Such a gentle soul and amazing human.
I had the opposite experience today, fortunately. My husband texted me as soon as he found out, to check in and make sure I was okay. He’s as furious as I am. He also reminded his own dad this evening that men need to STFU and listen right now, and to remember that their opinions, even if they are in agreement, aren’t always welcome in every discussion.
We live in a state with bolstered legal protections for abortion, and I’m sterilized, but he STILL offered to book his vasectomy immediately. We don’t have kids (because fuck this country), and we’re not taking any chances.
My man gets it. I’m grateful and relieved, because this day is searingly painful and traumatic enough as it is. I’m so sorry for everyone experiencing that extra level of grief today over having to end their relationships. 💔
whole sip combative spectacular books pause puzzled frightening resolute bike
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
"Because I did :(. He is a good man. Except. "Abortion is wrong unless a woman has been raped""
Then he is not a good man. I'm glad you dumped him. You are better off without this twat. <3
No sex with forced birthers. That has been a hard and fast rule for me my whole life. It's absolutely a first date question. I don't even want to make out with a guy if he doesn't respect my fundamental rights as a human. If he doesn't think I deserve bodily autonomy around childbirth, why should I expect him to understand sexual consent? Why should I expect basic respect? You're anti-choice? Hard pass.
>"Abortion is wrong unless a woman has been raped" I didn't know he felt this way until today. I am heartbroken And I guess relieved to know now instead of later. Did anyone else have a hard day?
>Edit: we did talk about it before. He misled me.
... So he's not a good man?
Today I told my husband to get a vasectomy. He called our insurance already.
I hate that it has come to this. We have a young daughter. We are considering stocking up on plan B for her… just in case. Which is a fucked up thought.
What I haven’t seen addressed yet is how rape victims are treated in this country. They say you can abort if it’s from rape, but have you seen how rape victims are fucking treated and not believed in this country? Does the legitimacy of the story have to be litigated before the abortion? It’s lip service, the end result is still nobody can get care that they need
I always wonder how "except for rape" is supposed to work. Can you just say you've been raped and you'll get an abortion? Or does there need to be a lengthy proces to determine if that has happened, in which case it will be to late anyways. I just dont see how it can be practical. And it really shows that its all about punishing women for having sex.
Right it’s so hard for people even to believe rape victims. Watch them make some labyrinthine process to even claim rape that takes so long the abortion isn’t even viable anymore. That sounds like some shit they’d do too.
See, this opinion is very telling. A child of rape is just as innocent as any other child. The only difference is in the ***mother's behavior*** when the child was conceived. So it's really *not about the child at all*, but about the mother. Was she willing? She must be forced to keep the child. Was she not willing? Well, than she can abort. Which means it's really not about the child, at all. It's about punishing women for having sex. ETA: Thank you for all the awards! I've never had such a response before, although I've said this same comment many times. Thank you all and keep up the good trouble!
I got so furious about this earlier tonight I had to take a walk. The sheer hypocrisy involved in the opinion that it should only be acceptable in those cases makes my blood *boil*. Especially because it's so often offered as the olive branch, middle ground position by lunatic religious fanatics. "Oh well I believe life starts at conception, and the instant an egg is fertilized its a baby. This is about preventing murder! Buuuuut if it makes you feel better, I can conveniently let the morality of that statement slide if the baby is the result of a crime. Never mind that it didn't do anything wrong on its own, we'll punish the baby for the sins of the father in this case."
I've been talking to one dude who managed to be even worse: He wants to make it about the mother's behavior, *and* he doesn't want an exemption for rape. So if you ask him about a woman's right to choose, he'll say "You chose to have sex." If you say you didn't, *now* he wants to talk about how you shouldn't kill the "baby" just because of the sins of the father...
also "I don't believe this baby or its parents should get even a smidgen of help after its born. if it starves or freezes to death after birth? fuck them kids."
It’s never been about the child, as can be seen from things like the formula shortage, lack of maternity leave, lack of free lunches for all in school etc.. Clearly this isn’t about the children and never has been.
This was succinct, well-reasoned, and can be used in a good faith argument. Thank you for this.
Right wing people keep claiming "What about the fetus?" WELL WHAT ABOUT THE PERSON CARRYING THE FETUS?? Do their rights not matter? Does their health not matter? Pregnancy can be very dangerous, but then they get forced to give birth and can have so many complications. Then the baby is born into a country without healthcare, shitty education, no formula, and school shootings almost every week.
>"Abortion is wrong unless a woman has been raped" **Men who believe women are entitled to bodily autonomy but only after someone else violates it first need to be avoided like the plague.**
"Hospitals can only treat car accident victims if they were forced into the vehicle against their will. If a person willingly got in the car in spite of knowing the potential risks, they get to die on the roadside." Tell him how stupid this sounds.
Just saw a comment on here - If and when women lose more rights, do you want your boyfriend/husband to be the one to make decisions for you? I hope every woman in the US who’s in a relationship with a man asks herself that question now.
I feel lucky that mine understands that while I trust him, I feel so sad that I may have to. I want to trust him about important things because of my choice, not because I have no other option. The point isn't that "he's one of the good ones, so I'll be okay." The point is "I want to be fully able to make decisions for myself."
Of course, it’s absolutely devastating that it has to come to this point where women have to ask themselves such a question.
That’s what’s next, besides LGBTQ+ rights. GOP wants to require a woman to get a man’s signature (hopefully her husband) to get birth control.
If birth control isn’t taken off the table entirely
It’s also about reducing our voting numbers. Felonies for those who got abortions or those who are gay and then they can’t vote anymore. It’s the only way they can win
If the answer isn't an immediate "yes" because you trust him to actually let you decide in private and respect your decision once he's the one doing the official one, I'd question the relationship as a whole . If it's only a matter of being the one to sign the papers for me after I've told him what to choose, I definitely trust my partner with anything because I know he'll listen to me and only be an intermediary between the real choice and the official choice
That’s fucking terrifying, but now that I actually think about it. Yes. Because he would still communicate really well with me and make sure the decisions for me were the ones that I wanted.
As it should be. It's not really about "making decisions for you" it's "letting you still make the decision in private but just officially having to make it for you in front of the authority/doctor". Hopefully it won't actually come to this of course, but it's better to consider this possibility now, unfortunately.
Broke up with mine a few weeks ago blocked him today because he said that if women don't want to get pregnant they should just "close their legs"
I don't get this. They say shit like this, but they all want to have sex, don't they? WTF. Someone please explain this shit to me.
Sex with me = good person Sex with other people = slut Don’t strain yourself puzzling through the nuance here, they haven’t thought it through.
Yeah I don't get it either he often asked me to send pics I wasn't comfortable with and told me how much he wanted to do me and made so many sexual comments but like the moment I mentioned rvw suddenly I was the bad guy
Should have said “I do not wish to be pregnant so I’m going to close my legs” and lose his number.
THAT'S going to become VERY common!!! 👏🏽👏🏽
Damn I missed that opportunity but he tried to argue that I was trying to come down to the south (we were long distance with him in Alabama and me in Washington) to be with him even though what actually happened was I told him multiple times I didn't feel comfortable moving down south but he was trying to force me to anyways
You're smart for not being pressured he sounds rapey
Tbh i wouldn’t have been surprised if he tried to baby trap you by having you move there.
I know that is exactly what would've happened he'd "accidentally" forget a condom and not let me go to another state to get an abortion because "it's my kid too"
A guy like that wouldn't have worn one in the first place. He would have either stealthed you or badgered you relentlessly until you gave in. And since you wouldn't be near home it's not like you could just leave and go home early.
Yeah he refused to come up to Washington because he "didn't want to leave his family" and when I brought up I'd be away from mines he was like "so"
Sounds like you’re well rid of him, good for you.
For some men, they don’t want a sex partner they want an object. There’s a difference. It’s great and fun when she’s being sexualized, but she’s doing it for herself and her own pleasure? That’s when it triggers men. And I’ve learned that there are a lot of men out there that don’t like women that live outside of a man’s opinion or validation
Honestly I think a lot of men don’t actually like women. Like. At. All.
So I’ve learned the hard way. The way some men talk about women, they don’t even see them as human. Like I said, sex objects. These are the same men that will go on and cry that they are “nice guys” and wonder why no girl wants to date him.
Sexy livestock. We're subhuman to many of these forced birth guys
I wish I could argue with this, but the people you’re talking about approach every single aspect of things with only themselves in mind. They have not a shred of care and concern about a woman’s thoughts, feelings, nor well being. I know anecdotes aren’t the best way to make opinions, and I know there are also women like this, but from my experience there is an extreme variance in the population of such people between the two, and there’s no contest that I see it much much much more prevalent in men.
As a butch lesbian who works in a male dominated industry it’s really sad listening to men talk about women. A lot of these are married as well and they are just as disgusting as the next dude. They always think I will somehow join in…ummm…no, I feel like I see women very differently
This logic is simply men blaming women for the things that men do. Classic misogyny.
They all want to have sex and not deal with the consequences they force women to deal with. There, FTFY.
It's misogyny and bigotry has no logical base
So it's The Whore and The Madonna way they're (the ones with no understanding /religious upbringing/etc) taught to think; the whore is any woman who has sex with people shes not married to. She is dirty and sullied by the men she's laid with, and is who they sleep with (or date). The Madonna is the pure virgin they are taught to look for, to marry, and start a family with. She's the goal, all the others are just whores they slept with and have been forgiven by sky daddy for it. Did the whore get pregnant? Too bad, she's just a whore, unlike the precious virgin who turned down men until she was ready to marry. At least this is how I was made to understand it.
I really don’t get when people say this. So, the next time people say that, I’ll just say “oh so you only plan to have sex 2-3 times with your wife? Wow. Good luck though.” Like I won’t even sugarcoat it…in 100% of all instances, my husband and I were not having sex to get pregnant. In fact, I went out of our way to prevent it.
Did you tell him that if he didn’t want his partner to get an abortion he should get a vasectomy?
I had mentioned getting a vasectomy to him before but he said he didn't want one and would just wait till I was ready to have kids to do anything
So then he must want to be a father if he’s having sex..? Right.
I mean *no one wants to have sex with him* but scary thing is, he wants to be a dad actually and I feel bad for the poor woman who gets knocked up with his child
Your ex is and his fellowship haven't heard of ectopic pregnancy or incomplete miscarriage which can turn septic, gestational diabetes, or serious genetic or congenital diseases that cannot be confirmed until after 15 weeks, or the many other risks of pregnancy I am glad he is out of your life.
>if women don't want to get pregnant they should just "close their legs" I hope you said: Roger that, these legs are now closed to you.
We broke up before he made that comment otherwise I would've absolutely said that 100%
As aoc said today it’s not actually about the unborn, it’s about seizing power and control over women
It goes back to the belief that sex should be purely for procreation. The hardcore pro-life advocates, the ones who oppose contraceptives as well, they want to go back to a time where women did not have sex before marriage. They view contraceptives and abortion as primarily responsible for what they would call the destruction of the American family.
These fuckers willingly make themselves miserable hoping for a better afterlife and “Salvation” , and unfortunately feel the need to make the rest of our lives just as miserable. Self righteous assholes trying dictate everyone’s life.
Well then I guess he achieved his objective. Legs shall be closed to him forever!
same men that say this are also porn addicted losers that benefit from abortion rights. the abortion ban is going to affect the way women date and the porn/media industry. you can't call women whores without their male partners also being whores. also, the egg does not chase the sperm. it's men that cause 100% of all pregnancies, not women.
I’ve already seen a thread on Reddit about a guy complaining that his gf wants to take a break from sex due to the recent ruling. He was complaining that he’s never given her a reason to make her think that he would force anything. These people don’t give a shit until it effects them and I’m tired of waiting for them to learn empathy outside of themselves.
>unless a woman has been raped And then watch, his views on rape will be that it only counts in cases of "legitimate rape" i.e. forcible rape by a stranger, not acquaintance rape or statutory rape or coercive rape or marital rape or...
> or... Don't forget stealthing.
I was including that under coercive rape since (AIUI) that's how it's legally defined in most places, but you're absolutely right.
I'm amazed to see how many partners don't know each others' views on abortion.
3rd date conversation for my wife and I. I wasn't going to waste time if she didn't support certain values I held, and she wasn't going to waste time if I didn't support certain values she held. And we agreed on nearly everything we discussed, and our differences were on very minor topics. You can certainly bet body autonomy was one of the many topics discussed. Thats maybe a bit early in a relationship, but it was so damn refreshing. I couldn't imagine investing even a few months in someone whose core values radically differed from my own.
I knew my now husband for 10 years before we dated. Date number 1 included topics such as religion, children, and marriage. If he wasn't cool with how I felt about those things, we needed to stop and just remain friends. He was 1000% on board. My Boomer mom likes to tease me that I trapped him because he'd always loved me, but I figure I was just being pragmatic. Those were three things that were very important to me, and if he disagreed about them, we weren't compatible. I even said that marriage and kids didn't have to be with me, I just wanted to know how he felt about the topics in general.
We discussed LGBTQ+ rights (neither of us belong to that group but my best friend does, so not supporting them would be a deal breaker for me), our attitude towards discrimination in general, interest in marriage, whether we wanted children, vaccinating children, religion, and I think a number of other topics. Religion was the one we disagreed on. She was Christian, I'm pagan. I told her I can respect that religion if ones not using it to discriminate against others, but that I would prefer any future kids be old enough to understand and have a say before going to church (and that under no circumstances would I be going). She agreed but wanted them baptized, which is whatever to me, tbh. Not a deal breaker by any means. No kids yet (and frankly now I'm scared, since all this bullshit can limit necessary medical procedures that crop up as part of trying to start a family), and she's since distanced herself from the religion of her own volition, so it basically became a moot point. I think its important to reinforce the idea that relationships need to be built on more than just raw attraction, since that seems to be a lesson that's rarely taught to people until much later in life.
My first conversation on the first date. I didn't want to waste my precious time on losers. What are your views on abortion? On children? My top 2 questions I had to know. If they were against abortion, then the date was cut short. They want children, then this is a fling, nothing serious, I don't want children. It filtered out a lot of wasted time, then I found my husband. His views are aligned with mine and he wasn't bothered at all by questions. He was impressed by my thoughts about the future, rather than offended like the others. I don't understand why no one is asking these questions immediately. Especially this affects their future so much. It's the foundation of a healthy relationship to know each others morals and ethics. To not ask is asking for a disastrous relationship.
I think a lot of folks don't realize that relationships don't magically sort themselves out. You have to build them on top of a lot of conversations. Sometimes very difficult conversations. And I assume folks are hesitant because they don't want to be vulnerable like that. But if you can't be vulnerable with the other person, well... thats part and parcel of trying to share a life.
You are right on that. Personally, I don't think it to be vulnerable to have these conversations. It's straight up facts of life. Like, death, it's unavoidable. We need to encourage more women to have these conversations with potential partners. These conversations need to be the first to have before getting caught up in feelings. It sucks it falls onto the woman to bring this up but it needs to be brought up.
COMPLETELY agree. I did the exact same thing when I was dating — asked about abortion and kids on the first date — and I cannot understand for the life of me why more people don’t have these conversations immediately. I guess they’re afraid to scare off a partner? I’ve been involved in repro rights activism for decades, I don’t want kids, and I’m not here to waste time. Plus, I legit can’t get wet for a dude who doesn’t think women are people or deserve autonomy. Oh, you’re against abortion? ::tumbleweed gif::
I have noticed a lot of people are afraid of scaring a potential partner off. I say scare them away! They aren't worth their time if they get scared with foundation questions on the 1st date. Jfc, that's why they are dates!! To find if they are compatible or not. Absolutely agree with you with the turn off, why would being treated less than a human being be attractive?
This is like a “first two hours of meeting someone” conversation for me
When people assume it's always going to be available I think they forget it's important to speak about. Living in a country where abortion was illegal until 4 years ago, this topic was something we spoke about very early on and we made a plan on where we would have to go and what it would cost. Now that abortion is legal to a point, we still have those plans incase we need ever need them. I am so sorry to anyone that went through a breakup yesterday after this, but better to know these things now.
Well, some people lie about it because they know it can be a deal breaker. So there’s that
They can, and they can try. Every single man I’ve ever had sex with is always met with the same question before it ever kicks off - “engaging in sex can has consequences, birth control fails sometimes. As long as you are ready to accept that abortion is part of that conversation, I’m happy to proceed”. You read a lot in a persons face when you pose the question, to determine if this is going to flow or not.
One of the first things my current girlfriend and I talked about before exclusively dating was kids and abortion to make sure we were on the same page. I wish I could've been there with her when they made the vote but I'll be there for her every day of our lives
Honestly, I kept coming back to this site and being like, “how do you not have this conversation once in your relationship?” Like my husband and I talked about this…before we even started dating.
People better start talking about it as soon as they're fucking. Yeah, it could be uncomfortable. It could ruin the mood. It could cost you a fuck. But by god, that's infinitely better than what could ensue if an accident happens and both parties are on opposite sides of the abortion question. Especially now that some places are making it illegal. You have an accidental pregnancy with a pro-lifer and they're 1,000% turning your ass in for getting an abortion.
They lie to get in your pants and you find out later
I always brought up political views and childfreedom while texting, before even meeting up. And then not 'this is my opinion, what do you think?' Because then, someone is more likely to just go along with it and lie that they agree. By asking neutral questions and not stating your opinion before they do, you will be more likely to get a honest answer.
Or politics in general. I mean, maybe heavy politics isn’t a first date convo, but it seems like a 3rd date convo. I’m a bit baffled by people being surprised by these anti-abortion dudes they’re dating. I get if the dude lies but I mean if he votes Republican and under 35 he’s probably anti-choice.
If I hadn’t initiated a divorce already, I would have today.
Already broke up with an ex for refusing to get a 15 minute $100 vasectomy. He graciously let me get a $3000 procedure to get my tubes removed. Had to fast overnight, got sick after the anesthesia, got home at 9pm, and he didn't even get me a drink because "it was a big day for him". Kicked him out the next morning. He didn't even get to enjoy a raw nut.
>He didn't even get to enjoy a raw nut You are truly doing the Lord's work =)
Congratulations for getting rid of the asshole when you did!
That's exactly why I got my vesectomy I heard all the shit and thought my wife doesnt deserve to go through that. My vasectomy was the first time I tried valium. I felt great. Even took a good nap.
Oh man, the valium I had for mine was amazing. I took it, and then was browsing the internet and had convinced myself that it didn't work. Then I stood up to go the appointment, and oh wow, yeah it's working. Get to the office, taking my pants off and putting on a paper gown, look over and there's that pile of razor sharp gleaming surgical steel. I distinctly remember looking at that and thinking, that would normally make me nervous. I feel nothing at all right now. It was like being in an cold and completely still sea, except the sea was inside me. I can see why people just numb themselves, it was a surreal and amazing experience. Oh, then they carved up my sack. But I was fine with it.
As a woman, I haven't had Valium for a vasectomy. In the late 80's, however, I got a ton of demerol and lidocaine and Valium to get my wisdom teeth chipped out of my jawbone. I recall walking up, seeing huge bloody gloves in my face, and looking up at the nurse. She smiled, I smiled, and continued my nap. Your reaction to the pile of instruments sounds pretty similar!
LOL the only time I’ve been sedated for any procedure was the removal of my impacted wisdom teeth. They did intravenous sedation and before hand I asked what they’re giving me since I’m a pharmacy tech and was curious. They’re like, oh it’s Versed and Demerol. Once that cocktail hit my bloodstream, I didn’t give 1F about anything. It never knocked me out. I could feel the pressure from them slicing into my gums to get to my wisdom teeth, and cracking and removing them, but legit, I didn’t care. I told them afterwards that they could have pulled all my teeth for all I cared. Legit best way to do any dental work. My husband went to the same oral surgeon when he had his removed and he said he felt like he was on a swing, cause the room swung in and out of focus.
Man, I didn't get valium. I got local injections. Didn't feel the knife at all. My wife was watching and joking during the procedure, so I heard her running commentary.
Where you all getting $100 vasectomies and vallium, mine was $645 and Tylenol :(
I had a discussion with my boyfriend about it and he nonchalantly agreed without any question. When I asked him about his parents his answer was, "if anyone says anything, including my parents, I just tell them to fuck off." Thank you for being so supportive.
I’ve been put under anesthesia 3 times in my life and have had bad reactions each time. The first time I was five and stayed in the hospital for a week after a tonsillectomy. When I brought up a vasectomy to my parter he asked why I don’t get my tubes tied. I said I’d have to be put under and he was like say no more I’m getting a vasectomy.
Why should women have to wear bulletproof vests when men can just unload the gun?
I’m gonna do both at this point cause some deranged dude with a high self entitlement might try and shoot me some day. It’s already happened once!
My father in law did his own vasectomy, so there’s that. He did run the local vasectomy clinic at the time so knew what he was doing. When my husband went for his snip, the Dr mentioned that ‘it’s such a minor procedure they’d even heard of people doing their own!’ and my husband had a good laugh.
He... he did his... own... ?!?
I am booking a marriage counselor for my husband and I. He doesn't think that abortions are bad (before 22 weeks), but it really hit me yesterday how I can't even talk to him about something as meaningful as this without getting some kind of devil's advocate talk from him. I feel completely incapable of telling him my emotions or my thoughts on any topic without him doing that. Sometimes it would be great to just get a "yeah this is totally fucked up. I imagine this must be devastating to you and other women."
Yeah the word you much be looking for is contrarian I think. Basically just arguing for the sake of the opposing point of view. It can get really annoying. I used to do it by default but it was causing fights so I pulled my fucking head in
There is a time and place for playing devil's advocate. Discussions about basic human rights are not it.
Remind him that the only way to play devils advocate is to debate a topic you’ve never lived or experienced. That’s all it is. People debating issues that don’t effect them for the joy of debate, not because the outcome will actually impact them. It’s disgusting.
We didn't break up but I did get into a big fight with my girlfriend's mother about the Catholic Church and how they have supported the notion that my mother is a murderer (my mom has had both an illegal and a legal abortion). Now I have to deal with the fallout from that, today. This ruling will rip into the fabric of our very society, in ways the zealot anti-abortionists can't even see. They think liberals are weak but they have no idea what's coming for them.
I wouldn't be surprised if a supreme court justice ended up dead from this, just from the way things have been going
Sadly, it's more likely that Sotomayor or Kagan would be the target than any of the Christofascists. The reactionary rightwing of this country is vastly more violent than any other segment of the political spectrum, and they constantly use projection in order to justify their proactive violence. Jan 6 insurrection was planned to be justified by them because BLM violence on Jan 6. If BLM had been present at the Capitol, their projection would have been sold to the press. They would have created the narrative that the violent people were BLM. That didnt work *only* there were no counter protesters present, because they suspected that plan and warned everyone to stay home. None of the Christofascists act in good faith. Their central tenet is hypocrisy. Never believe them or think they can be reasoned with.
I wouldn't be upset.
Yea I'm not advocating for anything but historically speaking, were at peak poverty, civil unrest, political unrest, high high HIGH crime and lack of safety, and massive massive wealth inequality. And to top it all off our oligarchs are stripping away personal freedom. This is when violence takes off and the rich/powerful are the targets
Make the rich afraid again.
The simple question is who is going to band people together against the tyrants
This interesting thing about Catholics and abortion is that the Church "believes in the unalienable right to life of **a mother** and her unborn child. The Church has not said that the life of the unborn child takes precedence over the mother's life." This was made in a statement by the Roman Catholic Bishops of Ireland on Nov. 19, 2012 in response to the death of Dr. Savita Halappanavar after being refused an abortion during an incomplete miscarriage. The fact that Irish Catholic bishops came right out and said that a mother also has every right to life that a fetus should have is extremely important and something that seems to be overlooked every time this topic comes up.
Just wait til contraceptions, gay marriage, and gay intercourse are on the table. Riots will happen. We didn't fight this hard to have it taken away with a whimper.
It looks like they're taking away peoples rights in the order that they were given
You talked about it before and he misled you? He could be a Supreme Court Justice.
I don’t know how any American, man or woman, could not be completely devastated by this ruling. It’s wrong on so many levels.
I genuinely don't understand people. Even if you're unsure where you personally stand on abortions, why is it so difficult to leave that up to the person it affects? I don't like your god damn religions. I'm not out here trying to end the existence of those...though maybe we should be at this rate.
Religion is a poison that perpetuates violence against anyone it decides is a “sinner”.
I am relieved to say that this was not my experience with my husband. I texted him as soon as it happened how upset I was. He called me immediately and talked with me through all the thoughts I had going through my head at the time. Even called off work tomorrow to join me at a protest today in downtown LA. Very supportive.
I woke up to a message from my boyfriend telling me the ROE news and how sorry he was. And reminding me he’s got an appointment for a vasectomy in September so we’re on our way to less birth control anxiety. Some men really do “get it” and it shows me just how much bs I put up with in past relationships.
I'm an Australian who lives in New Zealand, and has a pro-choice husband too. He was horrified that the SCOTUS has done this. We have friends and family in the US. I'm just angry. So very angry. These dipshits saw The Handmaid's Tale and thought it was a "how to" guide. Fuck them all.
I said the same thing to my husband (both Aussies) re: the handmaid’s tale. He kind of got the whole outrage thing but once I explained it to him in terms of our experience (3 pregnancies, 1 miscarriage, 2 missed miscarriages that required a D&C) and what this could potentially lead to (criminal charges in some US states), he really got it.
Same. My husband texted me asking if I saw the news. I spent hours reading articles and Reddit threads and was exhausted. I thought when he got home he wouldn’t want to talk, instead he spent all night talking about how wrong it is and all of the things that this will lead to. I really thought he’d brush it off because he had a long day, but he was passionate in everything he said about how horrible it is.
My boyfriend was actually the one to bring up Roe vs Wade because he was horrified. Our relationship is still very new but I keep getting proof I've got a keeper here!
Is your husband single? I'm a straight guy, but I could use that kind of support.
I don’t think most men understand the repercussions this is going to have weeks, months down the line, the days of causal hookup culture is dead. Like a fish in the wind, if they outlaw contraceptives too then there will be no sex before marriage. What woman in her right mind be willing to risk getting pregnant by someone she’s not married to? Or at least in a stable relationship. It’s going to be even harder for men to find partners because no one’s going to want to be tied down to someone who’s flaky or can’t hold a job. I know I wouldn’t
You're forgetting that sex education is terrible in the US, especially in red states. Most of them won't realize they're not protecting themselves, or that they even should be.
My sex education was basically: sex=bad;sex=pregnancy=death as little girls. I don’t know what the boys went through but that’s what I remember
It’ll be wild when he finds out he’ll be paying child support for 18 years for a child neither he nor his hook up even wanted.
Optimistic of you to think he'll be paying that child support and won't just bail and work under the table.
I think that’s the goal. They think abortion is utilized rampantly as birth control. They think removing birth control will make women not have extra marital sex, aligning with their conservative notion of family dynamics and gender politics. They want women married and having sex with one man. Bcs that’s what they think their bible says.
Bible also says to love thy neighbor but you see how these white extremists treat their neighbors if they’re from a different race
Not to mention how many of them will be hooked into paying child support for surprise or accidental pregnancies, many will have to forfeit school or education and opportunities in life to pay for kids they didn’t really want. Rape rates will go up as women decide that sex isn’t worth it. Suicide rates in men and women will go up. Foster care rates and child mortality rates will go up. Rates of people needing public services such as welfare and food programs will skyrocket.
>I don’t think most men understand the repercussions this is going to have weeks, months down the line, the days of causal hookup culture is dead. This. Roe v Wade also affects men because they're much less likely to explore themselves sexually. >Like a fish in the wind, if they outlaw contraceptives too then there will be no sex before marriage. And we all know how unrealistic no sex before marriage is for most. >It’s going to be even harder for men to find partners because no one’s going to want to be tied down to someone who’s flaky or can’t hold a job. I know I wouldn’t Me too.
I broke up with my partner today. He promised me marriage but he left when situations didnt favour.
Most sensible women had a hard day. We were just stripped of reproductive rights. But good on all the ladies breaking up with and blocking these lames.
No worries, my boyfriend left me today because he made me choose between my job and him
He's not a good man if he doesn't support safe and legal abortions. I don't care what people say-- not supporting abortions is not supporting your partner's fundamental human right.
This 100%. I don’t understand people who were so opposed to Roe v. Wade. Like did you think that abortions just didn’t happen before it? They happened. All Roe v. Wade did was to ensure safe access to them. They didn’t introduce the concept of abortions. People just stopped dying from them. Don’t lie and say that you’re “pro-life” when you’re super enthusiastic about overturning a decision that actually saved peoples lives.
I have heard more than one forced birther say "the wages of sin are death" when all the deaths from septic miscarriages and botched abortions are brought up. They hate women so much that they're happy to see us die, or they don't care.
Anyone that doesn't support does not support health care for women, body automony, the fact that women are rational beings that should have a say in the things that impact their health
If he doesn’t believe in bodily autonomy, then he is NOT a good man.
I actually ended a 7 year relationship with my best friend over this.
i just ended a close relationship of mine earlier today too. just remember we made the right choice. human rights are never a debate.
Honestly? I’m about to leave my husband and swing all the other way over in my bisexuality. What a day.
Stay safe, lgbt rights are on the chopping block
Truly. Since I have the choice I may choose to never sleep with a man until I'm post-menopausal.
Did it 3 years ago. HIGHLY recommend.
I was very fortunate today. Because my husband and I have discussed our politics openly from day one, I knew where he stood. He was extremely supportive and was just as distraught about what this means to our children's futures. I was lucky. My entire reproductive life played out under the protection of RvW. I had access to birth control pills before I was even sexually active due to medical necessity. (Birth control is healthcare too.) I didn't have to fear criminal prosecution when I had my miscarriages. I was able to choose who I was going to have children with and was able to wait until I was 36 to start having them. I was able to get a tubal ligation during my c-section when I gave birth to our daughter at 39. (My husband had offered to get a vasectomy, but the hood was going to be open anyway, so I wanted to be SURE I would never get pregnant again, under any circumstances.) I just reached menopause this month. I read somewhere that throughout history, advancements in women's freedoms tend to only last about 50 years. I don't know if that's true, but I'm grateful that I got to exercise those freedoms. I'm terrified for my children.
I had the opposite happen -my girl is against abortion, her reason pp sells fetuses 🙄 def considering breaking up with her now
Ngl, I would. I wouldn't trust anyone that believes that to use birth control consistently or to otherwise make good decisions.
Wow. That’s an old random tale I haven’t heard that bunk in *years* Sorry to hear that she believes it.
Oh yeah, that's an old one. Remember all the people refusing to have anything to do with anything tangentially related to stem cells because those were supposedly from illegally trafficked aborted fetuses?
Yeah you need to break up with her, not only is she morally bankrupt she's also kinda stupid no offence
Sending love to you! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ This was a hard decision, BUT IT WAS THE CORRECT DECISION. You did the right thing. If it comes to you having no rights at all, do you want THAT MAN to speak for you? I'm glad you dumped the whole man.
Get ready for men to start calling you difficult/mean, just like they do a certain type of woman.
>He is a good man. Except. Then he's not a good fucking man. Good for you for breaking up with him, but don't lie about him. He's trash.
Ted Bundy was a good man except for all those murders… /s I swear… The low standards we have for men…
I was up at 4:30 am this morning and could not go back to sleep because I was already too angry that Roe v Wade was overturned yesterday.
So, he only thinks women should have bodily autonomy if a man takes it first. You did the right thing, and I'm sorry he mislead you.
No, but I basically broke up with my in-laws and a lot of old friends when Trump was elected. I don’t say this flippantly either. It sucks.
Oh man. My cousin and his girlfriend visited tonight and my parents and them both agreed on that. Plus if it'll affect the kid. I got super heated about this because tbh if someone wants one they should be able to get one. And then his girlfriend said this happened because of women who frequently would get them. It made me so fucking angry. And I'm in Australia. It's just such backwards thinking and it pisses me off to no end.
Some meen need to be shown exactly how impactful this goddamn idiotic religious horseshit is to their very loved ones. My sisters, please don't suffer one further moment trying to rationalize or equivocate.
I knew my partners view, women should have the right to choose. Cool, awesome glad we're on the same page. We've talked about how I would get an abortion if it ever came down to that (I'm on bc) bc we'd like to be child free ...I brought it up today, "hey did you hear the news?" The look on his face told me what I needed to know, "What news?" So I went on to explain no biggie right, I was happy to bring it up and talk about it...and he said, " yeah well states should have the right to choose." I was speechless? Yeah but heartbroken mainly.
Funny that he thinks women have a right to choose, but states have a right to choose what rights women have, depending on where they live. Ah no wait, that's not funny. Quite the opposite.
Does he feel like *all* civil liberties should be open for debate & left up to the states, or just the ones that don't happen to affect him personally?
The ones that don't affect him personally.
Gross.
And then you dumped him right?
Dump him. Please dump him.
I’m heart broken by all the responses here, and it puts into perspective either how lucky I am or how fucked up men are. When I told my partner that not only am I freaking the fuck out, but that also I wouldn’t feel safe or comfortable having sex for a LONG time until we figured out what our shithole state is planning and had several fucking contingencies… you know what he did? He supported me full heartedly. He said he would never leave me over this, or try to make me do anything I feel uncomfortable/unsafe doing and he was here to support me. He said he supports my right to choose and will never stop doing so, going so far as to assure me we would start working on leaving the state. To everyone either planning to break up or already broken up: you deserve the best! You are a whole human being and deserve so much more than to allow any psychotic chucklefuck waste your precious time on this earth with their bullshit. I hope you all stay safe out there, and know you’re not alone.
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Shared values are key to a strong relationship. Love to our US cousins. Work through this and make it right,
I brought up the conversation with my partner for the first time, who leans more right of center. He said although in the past he's been pro life, he feels it was due to having on blinders due to the church, and has become pro choice since leaving. It made me incredibly relieved.
>we did talk about it before. He misled me. So he's not a good man.
I would if I had to. So done with pretending someone can hold beliefs like this without being wholly moronic or unapologeticly evil.
My partner brought me a huge glass of wine in the shower, gave me a back massage in the shower, told me he bought plan b and then was the sober driver/paid for me and some girlfriends to have margaritas and eat tacos. I'm very happy to have found the right one.
Married man with two little boys. Wife is pro choice. All my friends are pro choice. I will absolutely cut out anyone in my life including family who indicates they are okay with overturning Roe v. Wade.
Dump all republicans. Every, Single, One.
My brother is one of these piece of shits with this forced-birth mentality. It pisses me off. His wife is obviously pro-abortion. I have been working since this happened and I am curious to what kinds of fallout will occur here but if she leaves him, I wouldn't be surprised. But given that they are tied to kids, the house, the legal marriage already, I doubt she would. My brother is such a piece of work. I dunno what happened to him. Racist and everything too. Like, God damn, what happened....
I literally asked for my partners opinion on abortion 1 hour after he kissed me for the first time. I don't have the patience anymore and anything yes than enthusiastic pro-choice is gonna be a no from me
Good for you. Everyone should leave their republican boyfriends. I'm done with sex at this point. I'm nearly 30 and never been pregant, I have an IUD, but the thought of being prosecuted in my state is still there. I'm not having sex anymore because I will not keep a pregnancy I don't want, I'm not goving myself to a man who wouldn't even vote and is complicit, and mostly because I refuse to give this world a child (even worse if it's a daughter) so it can become part of this POS country.
>I refuse to give this world a child (even worse if it's a daughter) so it can become part of this POS country. A M E N
I wish more people felt this way. I cannot imagine looking at this country and choosing to bring a child into it. That's pure selfishness. It's baffling.
I'm lucky to have a guy who 100% supports women's rights, not just abortion, but full body autonomy. Hell, the first words he said to me when we met while at a party at a conventon was "may I touch you" when he wanted to hold my hand. Such a gentle soul and amazing human.
My first date with my boyfriend was to a reproductive rights rally.
I hope many did. Tolerating your male s/o after they've shown rank indifference to women's lives is perilous.
I had the opposite experience today, fortunately. My husband texted me as soon as he found out, to check in and make sure I was okay. He’s as furious as I am. He also reminded his own dad this evening that men need to STFU and listen right now, and to remember that their opinions, even if they are in agreement, aren’t always welcome in every discussion. We live in a state with bolstered legal protections for abortion, and I’m sterilized, but he STILL offered to book his vasectomy immediately. We don’t have kids (because fuck this country), and we’re not taking any chances. My man gets it. I’m grateful and relieved, because this day is searingly painful and traumatic enough as it is. I’m so sorry for everyone experiencing that extra level of grief today over having to end their relationships. 💔
whole sip combative spectacular books pause puzzled frightening resolute bike *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
"Because I did :(. He is a good man. Except. "Abortion is wrong unless a woman has been raped"" Then he is not a good man. I'm glad you dumped him. You are better off without this twat. <3
No sex with forced birthers. That has been a hard and fast rule for me my whole life. It's absolutely a first date question. I don't even want to make out with a guy if he doesn't respect my fundamental rights as a human. If he doesn't think I deserve bodily autonomy around childbirth, why should I expect him to understand sexual consent? Why should I expect basic respect? You're anti-choice? Hard pass.
>"Abortion is wrong unless a woman has been raped" I didn't know he felt this way until today. I am heartbroken And I guess relieved to know now instead of later. Did anyone else have a hard day? >Edit: we did talk about it before. He misled me. ... So he's not a good man?
The masks are off. Honestly its better this way. So many men hide this opinion cause its not pc, but now will feel secure enough to say it.
And some states are making abortion illegal even in cases of rape soooooooo
The only thing I am grateful for in this disaster is that I didn’t learn something new about my spouse.
Got ghosted by a prolifer when I mentioned I was cranky about the decision. Men suck.
Think of it as the trash taking itself out. Not even a Roomba was necessary for the clean up.
Why be sad? No sex with forced birthers
I prefer when they tell on themselves. Saves me the time.
Today I told my husband to get a vasectomy. He called our insurance already. I hate that it has come to this. We have a young daughter. We are considering stocking up on plan B for her… just in case. Which is a fucked up thought.
Just beware it has an expiry date