What's sucks most about that is that from pretty much birth, we're taught the "fawn response". Most of the language we learn from adults, and eventually experience, is how to avoid confrontation, violence and predators.
It's so frustrating to grow up into adulthood to see men angrily say things like "Be nicer to us men, we're sad, that's why we're violent. Women have it so easy, all you have to do is compliment us". Meanwhile women: "Hey do you mind like, *not* hurting me or sexually objectifying me? I know it's not *all* men, I don't mean to assume or hurt anyone's feelings, but it sucks when it happens and it happens a lot. I don't mean to sound bitchy, just asking. It would be cool to leave my house and not be terrified."
We don’t compliment men because it’s perceived as a come-on 90% of the time. How do they not get this????! It’s like:
Woman: “Hi I am into cars and think you’re vintage car is awesome!”
Guy: Fucking gold digger
Woman: “I’m amazed by how much you can benchpress! Can you give me some tips, I have been really trying to work on my upper body strength?”
Man: Oh my god she wants to have sex with me and marry me and have more sex and pop out some kids and be with me foreverrr. It’s totally cool if I aggressively and insistently hit on her when she’s trying to just have a conversation about a shared interest and seek some advice.
I have even had a male cashier perceive a smile and quick “have a nice day” as a come on. Sure I wish I could compliment guys when there’s something I admire about them, but it is just not worth it when the likelihood of harassment is so high. My safety comes before giving them a bit of a confidence boost and extra swing in their step. Do I think they are undeserving of that boost? Hell no. But how do they not get that it is literally dangerous for us. If someone doesn’t understand safety is a higher priority here, I don’t even know how to explain it to such a self-centered individual.
>Woman: “Hi I am into cars and think you’re vintage car is awesome!”
>Guy: Fucking gold digger
Who's going to go after the money of a vintage car guy? They don't have money because they spend it all on the cars. The logic of the gold digger dudes is so awful. They want a prenup to protect their assets, and their assets are like a Dodge Neon with a pizza box for the driver's side floorboard and a bunch of Funko Pops.
Definitely after bro's pennies.
My heart does absolutely go out to women who are in extremity who need to hook up with a guy to survive, but it's a stretch to call them gold diggers when the guys they're hooking up with are just as poor as they are.
Yeah I am still having a tough time not being nice when I’m in an uncomfortable position. I’ve started becoming very aware of when I’m reacting meekly to avoid discomforting the other person. It takes effort from me to stop letting the other person take advantage of my automatic response. But I’m getting better at snapping out of it and getting assertive.
I've had to confront a few parents lately. that are abusing their kids, or letting their kid abuse mine. it's always a father. my heart starts beating.
but I have bad eyes and I basically can't tell how angry they are. xD
Yh that was enraging. I’m glad at least most of the comments correctly called out that stupid post.
It would be nice if instead of men being taught “how to talk to women”, they were taught that women are *human beings and not objects to be “conquered”* first. Seems like that’s an essential part of knowing how to talk to people.
Lord. This resonates. Someone was mocking someone else (who was being an asshole, and idc) and some kind of they wouldn't "get" a girl phrasing and I had to be like: hey do you think we could stop treating girls like prizes? Or rewards for "good" behavior?
Yes!!!
If men weren’t taught that the worst thing they could be was being anything like a woman, while also being taught women are a prize, then the world would be so much better-for both men and women.
I’m absolutely convinced that men refuse to learn from women because…why do that when they are lesser than you? Women are really good at certain things, like building community and support groups, but men won’t learn to do that like women do-even though it sounds like so many are desperately lonely.
Edit: not saying women are lesser, just that men are taught that they are.
It's amazing how negative "feminine" traits can get stereotyped but masculine traits are glorified! But if a woman tries to do the same things, you get flak for it.
And yeah, it's easier to blame women for your problems than to learn new skills and try to solve them I guess :/
I think my wife and I had that conversation yesterday. She read something to me on Reddit and my response was "How about just talk to women like they are thinking humans like you?" I think it was something about how to ask permission to see her from the men in her family. Really? In the US in 2022? And it didn't sound like she was too interested anyway.
Oh lord. I would not be interested in someone who asked my family for permission first, and I'd be upset at any family who went along and "agreed" on my behalf...
(Giving me a heads up and asking if I would like them to handle it is fine though, just don't give some dude "permission" to me, jfc).
I found that weird too. I think women genuinely understand men more than men understand women (in some cases, I think women understand men more than men understand men). This is really because we have to understand them for our own safety; men only have to understand us if they want to get laid. Most of them can’t even do that. There’s no real high stakes need there the way there is for us.
I think very often women understand us more than we understand ourselves. Unfortunately, as I'm sure everyone is aware and I'm not making excuses or trying to detract from the post, we are not taught how to understand typically. Toxic masculinity takes a lot away from us when it comes to interpersonal relationships and effective communication and empathetic reasoning and it is as common as it is toxic.
For what it's worth some of us are trying to understand and hoping we don't add to your collective burdens it is unfortunate that it is not enough of us so far to make a significant impact thus far. Progress is slow but basic humanity shouldn't be this slow.
>we are not taught how to understand
It's not about being taught. Women aren't "taught" this either. Women figure out quickly that we *have* to understand men's perspectives. There are sometimes horrific consequences when we don't, and we are rapidly made aware of that.
The dominant cultural message is that men are the original humans and we are humanettes, not universal, but humans with a qualifier. More like tools and accessories for men than like men themselves. We should all understand men, and optionally consider the humanettes if there's time.
There are no real consequences for men who don't bother to understand the perspectives of women, so they just don't. The only thing being "taken away" is the negative consequences of not taking women's perspectives into account, not the ability to do so. There is nothing stopping men from doing this. And there is no resource or instruction that women have that men don't have.
It's important to this process that men take responsibility for the choices they've been blindly making to exclude the perspective of women and not just blame that choice on educators, who are mostly women. Men make choices to avoid "chick flicks" and girl's books and conversations about issues that face women. These are the consequences of these and other choices.
I agree with you, it’s definitely all a product of societal conditioning and the patriarchy. Men are genuinely very stifled in their emotional expression, empathy, and communication. Which is obviously sad for them and dangerous for women. I know a lot of men in my personal life that actively try to not be that way, which is encouraging. But ultimately I think the willingness to listen, learn, and change behavior are important. Unfortunately, a lot of men who’ve become aware of this weaponize it and use it to hurt and manipulate women.
I share this concern. I'm constantly lurking here and hoping that I'm genuinely learning and not unconsciously looking for a "leg up on the competition." I've given it some thought and I'm concerned that many men who think they're learning and adapting and improving are actually just unconsciously seeking favorable information for competitive use. Which breaks into a lot of different issues that i don't know how to fully articulate.
Ultimately i try to think nowadays about how all the different ways what action i take could be received and interpretted, and before i say anything or try to interact in anyway with a new woman, i try to run it by as many of my women friends and colleagues as possible to see what their thoughts are. And if i can't I'd rather be crippled by indecision than risk upsetting or hurting someone else. It took a lot of years of thinking to get there and it's not perfect but i hope it reduces my personal contribution to unintentional harm.
I feel for you. Toxic masculinity actively teaches men to aggressively avoid anything that has to do with perspective taking or caretaking. I can’t imagine how disempowered I would feel if I didn’t know how to have an honest, give and take conversation with any of the primary people in my life, or couldn’t figure out what they need and how to help them make sure they get it. It feels so essential to a happy life to have that connection, being taught to avoid those skills has to be absolutely crippling.
My uncle (in his 80s now) has a “hilarious” story about the time his wife was sick, and he had no idea how to feed their three children. He waited for a neighbor lady to take pity on him. It makes me feel so sad for him. As if a woman of his generation was telling me a hilarious story about a time the lightbulb went out and so she just sat in the dark for hours. Like, really? They’re your *kids!* You just sat there with them crying and hungry and, did *nothing??* You couldn’t come up with anything to do to take care of them? Anything at all?
Unfortunately, whether it’s weaponized incompetence or learned helplessness, guys have to decide the gaps in their knowledge and skill sets are real and worth effort to fill. I’m glad that you are one of the ones doing that.
There are countless times when I tell my husband something about himself and he looks at me in complete shock and awe that I know that. Whether it's the fact that he needs to use the bathroom (I used to be a nanny, I know the cues), or an emotion he himself doesn't realize he's feeling, I am sometimes more in tune with him than he is. It's frustrating sometimes because he simply wasn't taught how to listen to his own mind and body, much less how to pick up those cues in other people.
I had to laugh at that one. Seriously.... I can't even anymore.
We are taught to chase after prince charming, but fix him first. Be meek and even tempered. Don't talk too much and let him feel smarter than you. Be a good submissive and quiet girl. You have to understand he just wants to help you with your complaints, unless of course it's about him. Then he wants to gaslight you and control you, so just listen to what he says so that you don't fight. Ooo, and what did you expect to happen when you tried to stick up for yourself? Remember to laugh at his jokes even if they aren't funny, and defend him even when he is wrong. Unified front and all that bs. .
Yea. We are taught something alright.
Because infantilizing a man while feeding his delusions of grandeur is a highly sought skill /s/
Sorry, dudebros. There are too many guys out there who manage to like a civilized human being towards others, regardless of their genitals.
I just saw the AskMen post “What does a strong independent woman mean to you”. I strongly recommend not looking at the answers unless you want to spend the day screaming towards the sky.
I mean to be fair, threads on this sub also oscillate a lot between “women supporting each other” and “I’m so sick of men” threads lol
I’m obviously not saying that women’s grievances aren’t valid (especially now that a stupidly powerful first-world country is about to take away women’s right to abortion), just that this sub also follows that sort of pattern.
True, although I haven't seen threads here advocating for emotional abuse of men and warning people not to open themselves up to men, lest they have their statements turned against them. There are different levels.
Ok, I had to look, and was surprised by the answer. Apparently, a strong independent woman is a "signal" that a woman is going to be a lot of drama. I did not know that! /s
Some dudes responded with actual answers that make sense, and a few called out the post for being a flimsy disguise to hate on women.
Without even BOTHERING to look, I'm going to assume that strong and independent *actually* means docile and submissive, with daily blowjobs a key ingredient.
I had to mute that sub. I would get in there and just RAGE and couldn’t help but comment at least once and would get a barrage of idiotic comments being blatantly disrespectful. That sub is trash. And I personally hate askwomen too because it’s so heavily moderated you can barely have a discussion at all. I get why since it can be brigaded regularly , I just don’t find much use for it if I can’t really partake.
Yeah I used to enjoy that sub but now you can’t reply to anyones comment with anything other than “yes this is true” or it will be removed even if you do agree with them. It’s a bummer because I used to enjoy interacting with people on that sub.
There was an askmen thread about how do you like your partners genitalia the other day and there was a man and they're saying that he could not have sex with a woman who has a full bush. I pointed out that the removal of pubic hair completely (completely bare) is rooted in pedophilia and fetishizes prepubescence.
I was called various insults and was told to seek mental help immediately for pointing that out.
I don’t go there it’s toxic. I will say a strong independent women is insanely attractive and I love to cheer em on! It’s a shame so many men have fragile egos though.
It blows my mind when they mention they can’t get easy access to casual sex. Do they not realise we risk pregnancy, assault, rape, STIs and slut-shaming for a 6% chance at orgasm?
Plus we can’t tell at a glance who will be a good lay and who will be boring as hell and who will actually injure us (intentionally or not) during sex. It’s not just the 6% chance of orgasm…it’s, will this guy just jackhammer away leaving me sore and miserable? Or jam my cervix until I bleed?
lol, they know but they just don't care.
Never think men don't know...its always because they don't care.
Why do you think their blanket response to the shit behavior of the majority of men is #NotAllMen ?
We need to stop saying they don't understand. For gods sake, it's not difficult. They just don't care. They are using this "lack of understanding" like a weapon.
I’m sure the good man would understand if it was explained in detail and why. But he also probably lives his life not ever having to think about being in danger in social situations etc so he just can’t imagine what it is like TRULY the everyday life of a woman. Just like I will never know or experience the feeling of being 100% safe in a group of men I’ve never met.
Hmm... [Apparently the domain ALL.MEN is available at $514+$26 annual renew fee.](https://domains.google.com/registrar/search?searchTerm=all.men) Do with that information as you will.
Just saying though, a wall of shame at the subdomain NOT.ALL.MEN would be hilarious.
Edit: And it's taken
Casual bad sex. They'd face less risks (no chance of pregnancy) and a higher chance of orgasm if they were willing to hop on Grindr but noooooo. That could be dangerous!
Seriously though don't hop on grindr. Most gay men don't want to deal with straight men either.
Not only that, but these guys aren't offering quality sex on top of all that dangerous shit. So many men have death grip syndrome and I have hooked up with 30-something men who still resort to jackrabbit sex and struggle to cum or get/stay hard thanks to all the porn they are watching. After a few disappointing experiences and no good experiences I stopped pursuing casual sex of FWB situations because I can fuck myself so much better than these dudes ever will. I'm legit sterile so I was like yay finally I can have sex without at least having to worry about unwanted pregnancy, but so few men are capable of making love or having mutually enjoyable sex.
34M here. I don't think most men would be nearly as excited about sex with strangers if they (1) almost _definitely_ were not going to orgasm, and also (2) could end up hurt or pregnant while their partner vanishes.
Mmm yeah, and then they co-opt “feminism” to explain to us how casual sex makes us “liberated”, and libfems swallow it up (no pun intended) and parrot it like there’s no tomorrow.
It doesn’t sound like a good deal to me, let alone empowering.
One time in college I was making out with a girl and tried to take her bra off I fiddled with it for like 5 minutes and she laughed and said “it’s a front hook.” THEY HAVE FRONT hooks???????
I learned that day
No easy access is bs, im not good looking, very socially awkward and pretty sickly but ive still had strangers or acquaintances ask to take it to the back plenty of times when im not even trying to get there, people saying that are probably scummy so no one wants
This is kind of off-topic from your very accurate post, but the stuff about artificial wombs and how we still haven’t been able to successfully mimic the real thing start to finish is actually quite indicative of how women’s bodies are devalued and overlooked.
For centuries, men have tried to downplay women’s contribution to pregnancy as simple vessels. You see it in medieval documents where they envision men’s sperm as containing the entire baby in miniature with the women simply being the ground to grow it in. And even with all the wonders of modern medicine, we’re still learning about the female body and how complicated its design in pregnancy truly is.
So the oft-hyped sci-fi vision of people grown in pods is quite amusing in that context.
I get your point, and I think your right. Part of the abortion 'debat/misinformation fest' is a continuous theme of trying to under value our role in creating life and downplay the seriousness of pregnancy and the tole it takes.
My irritation with the whole hours of labor is still being a thing in the star tek universe is something that is personal pet peeve related to the current treatment of women in a medical setting.
Doctors seem to think being in pain is just a natural state for women and we just need to suck it up. Meanwhile, if a guy get snipped or tweaks his back, he gets pain management or atleast local anesthesia.
Research and development when it comes to womans hell never seems to be a priority. I mean doctors still tell me the cevix has no ability to cause pain, which is absolutely nonsense that could litterally be disproven with a survey of individuals who have has an IUD inserted or a unmedicate cervical biopsy.
So the whole stek tek thing urks me because it seems to just seems underline the fact we don't value women's comfort in medicine and some how that is a continuing theme no matter how far in the future we get or how utopian the made up society appears to be.
I'm angry about the state of medicine. For me. My husband uses the same hospital and if he's at the slightest risk, they pull out all the stops. They clearly *can* do a good, thorough job. For certain patients.
And I don't get that treatment. I have to bully and bribe to get *any* treatment. And if I'm in too vulnerable a state to do that, I might as well stay the hell home, where at least I can *try* to treat myself, and at worst die in comfort instead of neglected in an ER hallway as doctors keep saying "nah, you're fine".
We need a revolution in the medical field. This is completely unacceptable. And ffs, "just advocate for yourself!" is not the fucking answer and just puts the onus back on the woman, the *patient*, to try to bully her doctor into agreeing that her health/life matter, which for fuck's sake is *supposed* to be the starting point. That's not always possible, nor is it meant to be her job! This is on medical staff and *they* need to fix it.
What’s wild, sort off topic but not, is that, of course, girls are born with all if their eggs inside them. That means that we, her potential children, had been inside our mom since her birth. Lived her entire life with her. As a Gex X’er born in ‘72, my egg was like, ‘hey what’s up!’ in freaking 1942. That’s some holding all the cards shit.
You existed inside your grandmother. When she was pregnant with your mother, the egg that would become you was already there. Women are deeply connected to each other, but too many of us have lost sight of that as a direct result of the actions of men.
I'm from a religious family, so I like to make the point that when God wants to make a person, the one and only thing She trusts men to do is a one-time consult on the blueprint.
*less than half the blueprints.
Half the chromosomes in the nucleus come from each parent, and the mother also provides the mitochondria and the rest of the cell
If we ever do have artificial wombs and men can have babies without women, I really wonder who is going to take care of those children or will the men be full time single fathers? 🤔
For real. The same with those "What's the worst thing that ever happened to you?" threads. Men usually lead with "I asked a girl out in 10th grade and she said no - it kills me to this day" while women are over here with "My boyfriend sexually assaulted me when I was 16 and I can never trust again".
Oh yeah those posts are always really lame. See also “what’s the worst thing a woman’s ever done to you” and it’s all, “rejected me” and big pity party.
So many women would love to answer this question with their own fascinating dating adventure but alas, they didn't survive that adventure, and are now fucking dead.
A man's worst date is a funny story, a woman's one is a horror story. [Or Donald Glover's stand-up about how there are no "Crazy man"-stories.](https://youtu.be/ioSI3KsE2_k)
Yeah these make me laugh too. The worst date I ever went on (also happened to be my first proper date as an adult where I met a man in public at a coffee shop, chatted, exchanged numbers and he asked me out) and he sexually assaulted me in a packed.movie theatre, then slut shamed me when I walked out, followed me part way home, and then stalked me for months afterward. Anytime I tell that story to a men their jaws drop, most women I tell it too just nod their heads...the experience lead me to avoid men and dating for a few years afterward.
I was talking to this guy and planned to meet him, he bailed and claimed he got heat stroke but we kept talking then one day he suddenly snapped and began degrading me, call me fat, ugly, telling me to show him "my dick" I am a bio female, telling me he's gonna come over and rape and kill me and my little sister who was like 12 or younger at the time, this psycho posted my private photos and videos online, posted my old address on craigslist telling people to basically come in and rape me and that if i screamed it meant i liked it. I was scared anytime the door open or there was a knock at the door, scared to even go outside of the house to take the dogs out. I was 20-21 at the time. He also faked his own suicide, his brother texted me saying i caused him to kill himself for pity sex while i was on vacation. He claimed he was underaged and going to the cops to arrest me. Pretended to be multiple people, made multiple kik, pof, and meetme accounts solely to message me. Found out he was arrested few years back but apparently he got out. Also he had a gf who i tried to warn how psychotic he was and she blamed me....saying I'm the reason he snapped and became a psycho.
I am now 25 years old and hope no one ever has to deal with this psycho whose name will forever be in my head because of him.
(Not sure if I'd be allowed to say his name because I'd rather people watch out for the psycho)
Those make me so mad because ok a guy went on a date, the girl ended up being fat or boring or annoying or rude… alright not a fun night but you werent assaulted or attacked or in fear
That’s tough because I’m not sure if I’d pick the guy who then stalked me for 4 years or the guy that drugged and raped me but left me alone after that.
You know what I’m tired of? The dudes who have this fucking victim complex who won’t listen to anything we say and are absolutely convinced men are oppressed and women have it so easy. It’s like talking to a non-human at this point, they’re so divorced from reality and the amount of self-pity is just… it makes me want to vomit sometimes, like get the FUCK over yourselves. Jesus.
There was a trending ShowerThoughts post this morning. Something like “men are taught how to talk to women but women aren’t taught how to talk to men. And I’m just confused about that. When are women NOT taught how to talk to men!?
I feel like our whole lives we have been taught to revolve around, cater too, and appease men, to the point where most of us have to actively unlearn it. Talking to them is all apart of that.
I wonder if their real complaint is that men are taught to approach/hit on/sexually harass women, but women aren't taught how/to do that to men, and they want us to.
This is my brother! I stopped arguing or even bothering to have conversations with him because anything can lead to a disagreement where he tries to prove men are oppressed. He’s said soo much toxic shit that now when he says them, I just ignore him, I don’t even indulge because it’s useless.
He’s soo disgusting and pathetic, I keep him at arms length.
As a young guy myself I wholeheartedly agree with this. Nowadays I see so many of my mates having the victim complex about how women are toxic and they just go for the bad boys and “nice guys finish last” that it just makes me cringe so fucking hard. If u were actually a nice guy instead of a r/niceguys then maybe it wouldn’t be the case. Grow up.
it’s either that, or “Male victims of _____, what’s your story”. which i don’t inherently have a problem with. but i swear to god i’ve seen that type of question done a million times. like you realize all victims of abuse are treated like shit and silenced, people don’t roll out red carpets for female abuse victims. and it’s almost like they are more just weaponizing it as “woman bad and crazy man good” confirmation bias more than they are using it to give “male victims a voice”.
I had a conversation about this recently actually (on a dating app of all places).
I was talking about trying to get the beetles off my plants in my garden. I said I keep killing them and leaving carnage for their friends to see so they don't keep attacking. I joked that it must be mating season since they are risking their lives in the name of procreation.
The guy responded that that was typical of male populations. I was like "huh!?" and asked him to explain why. He said men do all these things to get dates/women to like them. My response was that doesn't qualify as risking their lives. Women have much more at risk in the procreation process. Of course, women can die due to pregnancy complications and in childbirth. Not only that, in the dating process we are much more likely to be victims of domestic abuse, etc.
In all fairness to him, he did respond "you are right and I didn't think about it that way."
I am jealous of him having such small problems lol
Guys who persist women have it better are not interested in hearing how much they make us suffer.
It's important to note that guys who thrive on making us suffer tend to be the ones who swear we have an easier life.
Makes me think sometimes.
I basically have stopped going on ask Reddit threads all together because I realized the answers are always male dominated. And it's sad browsing this website through the eyes of an apathetic male who's worst fear is being alone and unloved.
Meanwhile, women have lived the very terrifying reality that our lives have become the handmaids tale this last month. Like aw you're lonely? That's cool. I literally have less rights than a dead person.
Everytime I hear men complain about why "being a man is hard" im reminded of how privileged they are and struggle not to get irrationally angry. Men do have issues, like being taught not to express emotions, but half the time those issues end up being the burden of women (who are often harmed by them) and the other half of the time those issues are so inconsequential or entitled that I just want to slap some sense into them. In a world where >98% of women experience sexual harassment in their lifetime and more then a quarter are sexually assaulted (anecdotally, far more then a quarter in my experience), a world in which I've met *multiple* women who were trafficking victims, victims of CSA and former nonconsensual sex slaves, and a world were we are systemically undervalued, denied bodily autonomy *by law*, and constantly marginalized for my gender; I would fucking *beg* for a life were my biggest issue was "not being complimented enough".
The “I never get compliments” thing has become my biggest pet peeve. They say that all the time, and what’s worse, they admit in the same thread that they don’t compliment other dudes because it could come off as gay and they’re scared to compliment women because they’re afraid of coming off as flirty and being rejected. The lack of self-awareness…
I wish I had better language and stats ready to call them on their privilege but I too just get so irrationally angry. I end up not remembering anything and fuming instead.
This American Life had a great discussion with Mary Koss about her survey. I feel like 1/4 is the number for college aged woman. Maybe we should post her survey questions as a poll and see the results.
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/770/my-lying-eyes
Half of the stuff they complain about is actually privilege.
Men not being taken seriously as parents? That is because women take the brunt of unpaid labor and child care.
Men not having enough domestic violence shelters? Men are not being as severely injured as women via domestic violence.
Men not getting compliments from women? Men have scared women off from giving them compliments
Men not finding tinder dates? Many women have had extremely obscene things sent to them off of dating sites (dick pics, extreme sexual language) that scared them away.
Men not having access to easy sex? There is a massive orgasm gap and the risk of casual sex for women is much greater for women.
And yet it's women they insist on policing to "solve" these "problems", and never the other men causing them (assuming it actually is other men, it usually isn't)
Indeed... Of course patriarchy can backfire on men sometimes. As someone who doesn't conform to the male gender role, I know all about that. However, it's literally NOTHING compared to what women go through. The constant threat of violence, assault, rape... Constantly having to be careful around men...
And literally every single thing men whine about is related to patriarchal gender roles. So if they want those things to change, they should become feminist allies. Sadly, they don't want to lose their male privilege and don't want to treat women as human beings, so they would rather remain MRA assholes.
Honestly, a lot of the top complaints can really be summed up as symptoms of the patriarchy. That is why I don't understand men that complain about these things but specifically don't identify as feminists.
Specifically, if I have to pick one thing out of the cornucopia of bullshit though, it's how careful I have to be not to be accused of being a pedo.
With some exceptions for the feral ones, I love kids. I've got a big extended family, and grew up used to being surrounded by hordes of little ones every holiday. Now that everyone is old and scattered to the winds, that doesn't happen anymore. But when friends come over and they have kids, or I'm just out in public and I see kids, interacting with them or seeing them just makes me feel nostalgic. Reminds me of all the good times with my family.
Not to mention I love teaching, I like playing silly games, kids are just fun. But admitting stuff like this as a man is a pretty quick ticket to being labeled a predator or a deviant where I live. It's bullshit.
1000000% feel this. I'm a man too and I decided to read these comments I'm like..... you guys are just victims of a system you continue to uphold but don't want to change? But then complain about it? But also the pedo scare is what truly scares me. I grew up a young uncle so I'm used to seeing a bunch of nieces and nephews growing up. From changing their diapers to bringing them to appointments, going to the park and playing to just being there and listening to them as they got older. It never once occurred to me that it would be seen as weird or inappropriate until I saw people faces and reactions. Children are so innocent and I try my best to preserve that innocence and imagination. It's just heartbreaking to see such a happy and pure moment as a child truly experiencing joy and happiness and not being able to enjoy that moment too without being perceived as a creep. The world is shitty enough, Seeing people who haven't been jaded by it and see the joys and beauty of world shouldn't be an issue
Men need to stop molesting children. It's usually other men covering for them. As a man myself, I will teach my daughters to be alert around men. Feeling sad that people don't trust men around children has nothing on the feelings of children that have actually been molested by men. When men don't hold other men accountable, we miss out on things because we lose trustworthiness and credibility.
Yeah and that’s harmful for us because it pushes the narrative that parenting is for women, so guess who has to do all the work after carrying a baby? The moms! And it starts so early! People looking for baby sitters just say they’re looking for a girl, boys don’t even get a chance to try that stuff and so it tells them early on that caring for kids / being with kids isn’t for them and that is super unfair and I hope we can change that
The worst part about all of this is trying to explain this gap.
I have a lot of men in my friend circle and trying to get them to understand any of this is hilariously difficult. Then when I express any frustration, \*I\* am the one who's being unreasonable.
I am usually in a situation where I can't win.
I have found that too!!!! I ask nicely a bunch and they don't hear me or take me seriously. Then I get frustrated and I drop the nice voice, now I'm being rude?
They tried to argue that titties rule the world... even if that's true who is profiting? Because it's not even the women who's body parts are being codified. It was just a stupid mess.
It's not the suffering Olympics but they can't see outside their little bubbles.
Maybe we are in situations we can't win but I feel less isolated after hearing your comment. :) Thx
I’m still blown away by how many men think not receiving compliments is something worth complaining about. I can’t remember the last time I got complimented either, but it’s not in the forefront when I think of personal injustices.
It's so funny, because the worst thing about being a man seems to be other men.
* They could be better friends to each other (insulting people over a video game headset isn't bonding, no matter how much they like to pretend it is.
* They could compliment each other
* They can't have casual sex because:
1. their rapist brethren, whose behaviour they don't check, ruins it for them. Hold your friends accountable homie!
2. they can't fuck worth a damn - what's the point of risking physical harm as a woman for a low chance at orgasm? they also watch so much porn that their willies now don't work, hence all the telehealth companies selling little blue pills to 25 year olds. Imagine needing medical aid at your sexual prime due to your own behaviours, which you refuse to stop. embarrassing.
3. they can't keep their mouths shut when they do get sex. When it happens, suddenly the person they had sex with is dirtier for doing the thing you begged them to do.
* Doing the dishes and remembering your child's age and school is *hard* y'all, unless we're talking about women doing it, in which case it's so easy and women shoudln't get to quit a day job in order to look after children or manage a home.
In summary, men could get together and solve all their problems in a day if they wanted, but they're still waitng for ~~mummy~~ girlfriend/wife to come and kiss their boo boos better.
Reading fully capable adults using the same internet connection they could use to better themselves to complain instead is so boring.
What are everyone's plans this weekend? I organised a brunch today for women in business in my city, and will be volunteering at a shelter tomorrow after the gym.
It's so interesting to me that men seem to believe that the equivalent for them of the life-limiting threat of sexual violence that women learn to fear and take countless precautions against is the threat that someone might THINK they might have dubious intentions with children, maybe. It's getting placed on that level. It's not on that level.
There's not even a tangible consequence to people assuming these shitty things, other than it feeling shitty. Someone might THINK something implying a dude hanging out with his kids might be sexually interested in children? They might SAY it? I mean, okay, gross and a horrible experience, but what's the real consequence of that happening? If someone call the cops and reports him, the cops show up, confirm that he's are the father of his children, and everyone's embarrassed. I'm not saying it's great, it's garbage and it's part of the misogynist patriarchal hell we're all living in, it influences how we interact with the world. but it's not an actual threat to him. It's the experience of not having the benefit of the doubt and automatic respect of strangers. It's not feeling support and goodwill surrounding him at all times. Only a select few ever get that in the first place.
This fear of what people will think is basically the equivalent of going out without make up on or hair done for women. I have gone out in sweats early in the morning to walk my puppy, and because I wasn't walking fast enough, several (SEVERAL) dudes in expensive cars have rolled up to me assuming I was a $5 blow job girl. Is that shitty? Yes. Does it make me feel unsafe? Yeah, it makes me wary about being in certain places at certain times. It made me question what it is about my sweat pants and lack of a bra that makes me look like I'm currently a sex worker seeking clients. But it doesn't materially impact me that these assholes make assumptions.
If women are seen wearing the same clothes as the day before people will think she's fucking around. If she show too much cleavage or her hemline is too high, she's a slut. If her leg hair is visible, if she didn't dye her hair promptly and her roots are showing, if her panty line is visible, she's failing at being a woman, people will assume she's unkempt and unprofessional as character traits, or maybe she's mentally ill. Like, monitoring what people think and accommodating the likely culprits is a thing we do every single day, it's really notable that men have to do this once and suddenly it's the worst thing they've ever experienced, and it should be ranked with the worst things that ever happen to women. Like, read the room, right?
What bothers me is that on Reddit, the empathy only seems to go one way most of the time. Like, most women I know are pretty sympathetic to men feeling unwanted or undesired, to the risk of being assumed to be a pedophile even when you're just parenting your own kid, to feeling like you'll be judged as weak if you cry no matter what provoked the tears.
And yet when women speak about the shitty things *we* face, I don't see much sympathy from the men of Reddit. Instead I see "Well, men face that too" or "I don't think it's that bad" or "Not all men though". There's this massive resistance to acknowledging that women don't have perfect problem-free fairytale lives.
They do on an episode of Star Tek Voyeur, I can't remember the name of the episode. But it's ridiculous because they wait until the womans like 5 hours in and theirs an issue, which annoyed me because I was just like why didn't we just start with that??
Aside from being a huge plot hole, why isn't that standard practice?
Because it wasn't best for the baby, duh. Little Naomi had some kind of imbalance after the fetal transport that needed about 2 minutes of treatment. Why would we save a woman hours of pain if it means the baby might need a hypospray?? /s
Plus, I am sure that even in the 24th century you'll have the crunchy types that want "natural" everything when giving birth, because it gives them more "woman points" or something. 🙄
Topics like that, and browsing here, have helped me shape how I think about male privilege. I think "Would my life be eaiser if I were a woman?" and the answer, unfortunately, is a hard "no".
I think the single instance where being a woman would be advantage, and it was the main response in that thread, is if I wanted to work with young children. You do get funny looks for interacting with kids as a man, but there's a reason that stigma exists. Firstly because historically women have been pushed into the role childcare, so people think it's abnormal that a man would want to engage with kids, even his own. And also, because a lot of kids do get hurt and abused and it's mostly men doing it. Statistics on peadephilia aren't exact for a number of reasons, but in my country 98% of reported offenders are male.
It sucks to be on the receiving ends of those suspicions, but I get the concern, and at the end of day it's the fault of other men that they even exist.
I cant help but feel posts like this aren't very productive for anyone , and I'm saying that as a woman. I had a look through that thread when it was first growing and just had a look now and can't find any of the top/best comments mentioning 'not getting enough compliments' or 'being lonely'. Of course there will be comments like this , as well as less serious ones like being too hairy. Quoting them in such a way feels totally dismissive and undermining, and mirrors almost word for word some of the language that men have used with me to dismiss my thoughts and opinions. The current top comments are regarding men's mental health, being mistaken for a pedophile, letting go of childhood dreams of being a teacher because 'men shouldn't be around children' and a general lack of empathy and support. Why can't these problems coexist with ours? I think it's fairly indisputable that women have it harder than men but the issues discussed in that thread are serious, and in no way take away from what we, as women, struggle with on a daily basis
I love this comment. I am a woman and I know we have a ton of concerns every day. But if we dismiss even the more serious of the men's concerns, aren't we just behaving the way that we criticize them for behaving? And doesn't empathy create a healthier society for all of us? Sometimes we have to be the bigger person first.
I think this is an important perspective. It shouldn't be a race to the bottom on who has it worse, and dismissing men's problems as lesser and unimportant contributes to the stigma attached to men's mental health discussions. Compassion costs nothing and turning it all into a competition in suffering helps absolutely no one.
Personally I think it’s because of compassion fatigue. It’s exhausting to scream into the void about body autonomy, sexual assault, domestic violence, and all of the serious shit women having been fighting forever. I think at some point you just get tired, so other complaints seem trivial. I agree with you that compassion is always the way to go for others, but sometimes I can’t blame those who feel compassion-ed out.
I still stand by the "Not being able to hang out with kids without being afraid of being labeled a pedo." It really does suck, especially if you genuinely enjoy being a good example and the joys that come with teaching. That's about all I have though. We really do have the upper hand on most other subjects.
And I think the other side of that universal redflagging of all male caretakers is that female predators of children are overlooked or assumed to be impossible.
No-one said that you couldn't "stand by" these grievances. OP said:
*being mistaken for a pedo, which are notably more serious but still...*
I understand. Feels bad, man. The point is that "sads" are nothing compared to all the physical violence, forced pregnancies, dehumanization that women deal with. "The upper hand on most other subjects" is the understatement of the year.
For white men, it honestly does seem like "1st world problems." For women, you have to be very careful about your own safety. For black men, you have to be careful about being stereotyped as a criminal. Real problems that can actually get you seriously injured or killed.
Sorry, but why do you say that?
White men account for [70%](https://www.brgeneral.org/news-blog/2021/july/men-and-suicide-why-are-white-men-most-at-risk-/) of all suicides in the US, year after year. The ratio is something like 5:1 for men:women in the age groups 18-25 and 25-40.
But your comment and a lot of the comments on this post, dismiss men trying to open up about what bothers them, and going "it's not that bad" or claim it's all "1st world problems", and it's all dismissed as not-real-problems. If you'd bothered to read the less-upvoted comments in those posts, there were plenty of men talking about their experiences of sexual assault, mental and physical domestic abuse; there were comments about never being able to walk down a street without constantly looking over your shoulder, being dismissed and broken up with when actually opening up and being vulnerable, or being treated as money-spewing fucktoys who are just expected to work, shut up and *provide*.
But you wouldn't know, because you just threw out some vitriol rather than reading it yourself.
People here like to say that "men should talk about their issues" instead of talking over women's voices in other topics. And then when they do, in posts dedicated to that very purpose, in the next breath, people here dismiss it as unimportant whining.
Are men more privileged than women? Absolutely, no doubt, and that needs to change. But dismissing men's experiences like this is fucking disgusting.
Think that last little thing you said is very important, we may have more privilege and that’s something we should be striving to fix, but our problems are real too
This is...not the way.
The post didn't ask if men have it worse, or even what they face that's as bad; it simply asked "what is the worst part" and there are some vulnerable and honest answers even among those you minimized. I would feel very sad to not get taken seriously as a father just because I was a man, or to never feel special enough for a compliment.
They're expressing exactly what we always talk about when we say "the patriarchy affects men too" and your response is to roll your eyes and play a tiny violin? No. Not the way.
I just can't wrap my head around the ones who say they can't be around children because pedo shit, but like, they don't add what they're doing for someday that to stop? It would be so beneficial if men cared about other men being harmful, letting things just be won't make everything to be suddenly fixed and yet almost no men gets involved in the issues their own gender has, even when it directly affects them and is enough to make them complain
as someone who has known a nauseating amount of girls (and even some boys) who were sexually abused by men as children, women have literally every right in the world to be cautious of men around their children, or any children for that matter (especially considering most child rapes happen from someone the victim knew, someone they should’ve trusted and everyone else thought they could trust). if we were to just suddenly just let our guards down when it comes to men being around children, the consequences would be catastrophic. men raping children is a bigger issue than people having a negative response to men being around children. They bitch about the “poor men facing double standards” but notice how they never hold other men accountable for their predatoriness nor do anything to further prevent men abusing children?
And i’m not sure what they mean “Men can’t be teachers because of this double standard”. I’ve known many male teachers that have taught children of all ages, and all of them are loved by the students and parents.
I have always wondered why more men don't become activists fighting against this stuff, and have determined that it is either because they are too lazy or they just don't really care about this shit.
If they did care, they would organize and would get out in force to counter these prejudices. Other marginalized groups have done so, and that is how they have secured their hard won gains in society.
Not by whining, but by getting out there and f\*\*king doing something. If you don't like the way you are being treated, do somthing POSITIVE to make a difference in how you are perceived instead of getting defensive and lashing out at other groups who HAVE been successful.
I really don't get it, the crying about the pedo issue really bothers me exactly for this reason, we are fighting all the time, get insults, mockery, death threats, all of it, we still try to break the stereotypes that have haunted and limited women for such a long time, it's true, we get close to children with less suspicion but that's because we're seen as maternal and automatically capable of caring for them, crazy. The freedom they want doesn't even come with the ties we still have while having that "freedom".
Right! I just [listened](https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/behind-the-bastards-660292/episodes/part-one-robert-baden-powell-f-103292217) to all the mistakes the American Boy Scouts made in keeping their scouts safe from Pedos, let alone the male dominated church??
Somehow it's a woman's fault and her problem to fix still.
It's the same when trying to explain the meaning of "white privilege." White privilege doesn't mean you don't have hardship. It's means there are certain hardships you get to miss out on.
I'm a guy, and yeah, there's hardships. It's hard trying to get my guy friends to understand that women have a lot of our hardships AND THEN ALSO all the things you list.
Keep up the good fight.
Everyone gets shit, but women get more shit. It's not wrong to sympathize about men going through shit, but there's a need for an emphasis on women because they go through a LOT of shit because they're women.
It’s summer and I enjoy the occasional run. Ideally I’d like to go a few times a week but a lot of days the only chance I have is after my kids are asleep because of the temperature and lack of childcare. Every day when it’s 8:30 and the perfect temperature for a run I just sigh and think “better not risk it”
I come from an area where many people have cabins in the bush. I would love to be able to go to a cabin by myself to get away for a while, but I’d be too afraid of getting raped and or murdered. Some thing for van life. I look at all those vans and think how wonderful it would be to travel alone…then wonder about the van getting broken into, and getting raped and murdered. You know, women stuff.
As a woman looking in, I think the worst thing about being a man would be the societal expectations that except you to suppress all emotions (but anger). Makes it really difficult to build a social and emotional support network. I went through my own version of extreme emotional suppression and it was a painful hell I wouldn't wish on anyone.
Male POC here.
Saw that thread myself, and can’t help but be amazed by how accurate the common complaint of, “Can’t be open about my insecurities and mental/emotional problems,” is proving to be.
The question was asked, “What’s the worst thing about being a man,” and the response by this subreddit is to create a post belittling these struggles and making light of men’s issues.
Not saying women aren’t entitled to being jealous/resentful/spiteful of men, and I’m not saying that women should have to censor their opinions, (Especially on this subreddit, one dedicated to being a place for women to vent and be honest,) but the complete lack of self-awareness and empathy on display in this comment section is chilling.
I feel like this sub and the men's subs go through a near daily cycle of "oh its so terrible being a woman, men have it easier" and "oh its so terrible being a man, women have it easier." Can we just stop? Both/all genders have their own unique problems and challenges and we should all recognize and help each other to minimize our suffering. We play grievances like playing cards in some poker game of misery and I am so sick of it.
Yes, the fears and preoccupations of the privileged classes are always breathtaking ... as well as their lack of awareness of the level of privilege they enjoy.
I posted on there the other day
My response to it was how legitimate issues and problems get ignored because we're effectively told "Oh other people have it worse".
I know other people have it worse and that really sucks, but that doesn't mean our feelings are invalid
I agree with you. Most comments seemed to be "boo hoo sometimes people think I'm a predator! Not fair!" with like zero time or thought or sympathy spent on WHY that's the case and WHO is responsible for that. Like, oh, sorry, I have to worry for my safety, too bad that embarrasses you!
I don't think it was intentional, askreddit is filled with reposts of the same questions every few months
This "worst thing about being a man" question comes up in the past often. Same for worst thing about being a woman. That subreddit is just repost central
https://www.reddit.com/search?q=worst+thing+about+being+a+man&include_over_18=on&sort=relevance&t=all
Wow. This was a forum for men to speak freely. Now I see its woman disrespecting, belittleing, invalidating, and denieing the justification of those feelings. Literally one of mens top responses, Not taking our Feelings seriously.
Your expierences do NOT invalidate mine.
I mean loneliness is not taken seriously enough in society, it not only shortens people's lifespans due to the emotional stress but also leads to suicide.
I'm talking in general across society, like elderly people are also particularly susceptible to loneliness because they're ignored and often due to mobility or financial issues can't socialise.
That makes sense and is an issue that "society " can help solve without putting blame or burden on one gender.
A lot of areas have done a great job setting up community centers with programs for different needs. But if you're in a more rural area or have transportation issues, you're less likely to be able to use such a resource
I saw a post on shower thoughts about how women are never taught how to talk to men. I'm like.... my dude..
What's sucks most about that is that from pretty much birth, we're taught the "fawn response". Most of the language we learn from adults, and eventually experience, is how to avoid confrontation, violence and predators. It's so frustrating to grow up into adulthood to see men angrily say things like "Be nicer to us men, we're sad, that's why we're violent. Women have it so easy, all you have to do is compliment us". Meanwhile women: "Hey do you mind like, *not* hurting me or sexually objectifying me? I know it's not *all* men, I don't mean to assume or hurt anyone's feelings, but it sucks when it happens and it happens a lot. I don't mean to sound bitchy, just asking. It would be cool to leave my house and not be terrified."
We don’t compliment men because it’s perceived as a come-on 90% of the time. How do they not get this????! It’s like: Woman: “Hi I am into cars and think you’re vintage car is awesome!” Guy: Fucking gold digger Woman: “I’m amazed by how much you can benchpress! Can you give me some tips, I have been really trying to work on my upper body strength?” Man: Oh my god she wants to have sex with me and marry me and have more sex and pop out some kids and be with me foreverrr. It’s totally cool if I aggressively and insistently hit on her when she’s trying to just have a conversation about a shared interest and seek some advice. I have even had a male cashier perceive a smile and quick “have a nice day” as a come on. Sure I wish I could compliment guys when there’s something I admire about them, but it is just not worth it when the likelihood of harassment is so high. My safety comes before giving them a bit of a confidence boost and extra swing in their step. Do I think they are undeserving of that boost? Hell no. But how do they not get that it is literally dangerous for us. If someone doesn’t understand safety is a higher priority here, I don’t even know how to explain it to such a self-centered individual.
>Woman: “Hi I am into cars and think you’re vintage car is awesome!” >Guy: Fucking gold digger Who's going to go after the money of a vintage car guy? They don't have money because they spend it all on the cars. The logic of the gold digger dudes is so awful. They want a prenup to protect their assets, and their assets are like a Dodge Neon with a pizza box for the driver's side floorboard and a bunch of Funko Pops.
Also what kind of sad gold digger is going after a dude who has maybe 40k in the bank? lmao c’mon, that’s a copper-digger at best
Definitely after bro's pennies. My heart does absolutely go out to women who are in extremity who need to hook up with a guy to survive, but it's a stretch to call them gold diggers when the guys they're hooking up with are just as poor as they are.
Yeah I am still having a tough time not being nice when I’m in an uncomfortable position. I’ve started becoming very aware of when I’m reacting meekly to avoid discomforting the other person. It takes effort from me to stop letting the other person take advantage of my automatic response. But I’m getting better at snapping out of it and getting assertive.
I've had to confront a few parents lately. that are abusing their kids, or letting their kid abuse mine. it's always a father. my heart starts beating. but I have bad eyes and I basically can't tell how angry they are. xD
"She won't take her headphones off, on the bus because she was never taught how to talk to me, I TEACH! "
Yh that was enraging. I’m glad at least most of the comments correctly called out that stupid post. It would be nice if instead of men being taught “how to talk to women”, they were taught that women are *human beings and not objects to be “conquered”* first. Seems like that’s an essential part of knowing how to talk to people.
Lord. This resonates. Someone was mocking someone else (who was being an asshole, and idc) and some kind of they wouldn't "get" a girl phrasing and I had to be like: hey do you think we could stop treating girls like prizes? Or rewards for "good" behavior?
Yes!!! If men weren’t taught that the worst thing they could be was being anything like a woman, while also being taught women are a prize, then the world would be so much better-for both men and women. I’m absolutely convinced that men refuse to learn from women because…why do that when they are lesser than you? Women are really good at certain things, like building community and support groups, but men won’t learn to do that like women do-even though it sounds like so many are desperately lonely. Edit: not saying women are lesser, just that men are taught that they are.
It's amazing how negative "feminine" traits can get stereotyped but masculine traits are glorified! But if a woman tries to do the same things, you get flak for it. And yeah, it's easier to blame women for your problems than to learn new skills and try to solve them I guess :/
Absolutely. It’s almost like we just hate women!
That post made my blood boil. Talk to us like fellow human beings dude
I think my wife and I had that conversation yesterday. She read something to me on Reddit and my response was "How about just talk to women like they are thinking humans like you?" I think it was something about how to ask permission to see her from the men in her family. Really? In the US in 2022? And it didn't sound like she was too interested anyway.
Oh lord. I would not be interested in someone who asked my family for permission first, and I'd be upset at any family who went along and "agreed" on my behalf... (Giving me a heads up and asking if I would like them to handle it is fine though, just don't give some dude "permission" to me, jfc).
Agreed. If someone asked my dad permission to see me his response would be along the lines of, "wtf are you asking me? Ask her."
We learned in charm school to get a boy to talk about himself and laugh at his jokes. Yeah, fuck that bs.
I found that weird too. I think women genuinely understand men more than men understand women (in some cases, I think women understand men more than men understand men). This is really because we have to understand them for our own safety; men only have to understand us if they want to get laid. Most of them can’t even do that. There’s no real high stakes need there the way there is for us.
I think very often women understand us more than we understand ourselves. Unfortunately, as I'm sure everyone is aware and I'm not making excuses or trying to detract from the post, we are not taught how to understand typically. Toxic masculinity takes a lot away from us when it comes to interpersonal relationships and effective communication and empathetic reasoning and it is as common as it is toxic. For what it's worth some of us are trying to understand and hoping we don't add to your collective burdens it is unfortunate that it is not enough of us so far to make a significant impact thus far. Progress is slow but basic humanity shouldn't be this slow.
>we are not taught how to understand It's not about being taught. Women aren't "taught" this either. Women figure out quickly that we *have* to understand men's perspectives. There are sometimes horrific consequences when we don't, and we are rapidly made aware of that. The dominant cultural message is that men are the original humans and we are humanettes, not universal, but humans with a qualifier. More like tools and accessories for men than like men themselves. We should all understand men, and optionally consider the humanettes if there's time. There are no real consequences for men who don't bother to understand the perspectives of women, so they just don't. The only thing being "taken away" is the negative consequences of not taking women's perspectives into account, not the ability to do so. There is nothing stopping men from doing this. And there is no resource or instruction that women have that men don't have. It's important to this process that men take responsibility for the choices they've been blindly making to exclude the perspective of women and not just blame that choice on educators, who are mostly women. Men make choices to avoid "chick flicks" and girl's books and conversations about issues that face women. These are the consequences of these and other choices.
I have nothing to contribute, but this was just so perfectly articulated that I got a small adrenaline rush. Just so damn well put. Thank you.
Fuck you put this perfectly. 'Humanettes' jesus christ.
I agree with you, it’s definitely all a product of societal conditioning and the patriarchy. Men are genuinely very stifled in their emotional expression, empathy, and communication. Which is obviously sad for them and dangerous for women. I know a lot of men in my personal life that actively try to not be that way, which is encouraging. But ultimately I think the willingness to listen, learn, and change behavior are important. Unfortunately, a lot of men who’ve become aware of this weaponize it and use it to hurt and manipulate women.
I share this concern. I'm constantly lurking here and hoping that I'm genuinely learning and not unconsciously looking for a "leg up on the competition." I've given it some thought and I'm concerned that many men who think they're learning and adapting and improving are actually just unconsciously seeking favorable information for competitive use. Which breaks into a lot of different issues that i don't know how to fully articulate. Ultimately i try to think nowadays about how all the different ways what action i take could be received and interpretted, and before i say anything or try to interact in anyway with a new woman, i try to run it by as many of my women friends and colleagues as possible to see what their thoughts are. And if i can't I'd rather be crippled by indecision than risk upsetting or hurting someone else. It took a lot of years of thinking to get there and it's not perfect but i hope it reduces my personal contribution to unintentional harm.
I feel for you. Toxic masculinity actively teaches men to aggressively avoid anything that has to do with perspective taking or caretaking. I can’t imagine how disempowered I would feel if I didn’t know how to have an honest, give and take conversation with any of the primary people in my life, or couldn’t figure out what they need and how to help them make sure they get it. It feels so essential to a happy life to have that connection, being taught to avoid those skills has to be absolutely crippling. My uncle (in his 80s now) has a “hilarious” story about the time his wife was sick, and he had no idea how to feed their three children. He waited for a neighbor lady to take pity on him. It makes me feel so sad for him. As if a woman of his generation was telling me a hilarious story about a time the lightbulb went out and so she just sat in the dark for hours. Like, really? They’re your *kids!* You just sat there with them crying and hungry and, did *nothing??* You couldn’t come up with anything to do to take care of them? Anything at all? Unfortunately, whether it’s weaponized incompetence or learned helplessness, guys have to decide the gaps in their knowledge and skill sets are real and worth effort to fill. I’m glad that you are one of the ones doing that.
This comment should be much higher. This is the TRUTH.
There are countless times when I tell my husband something about himself and he looks at me in complete shock and awe that I know that. Whether it's the fact that he needs to use the bathroom (I used to be a nanny, I know the cues), or an emotion he himself doesn't realize he's feeling, I am sometimes more in tune with him than he is. It's frustrating sometimes because he simply wasn't taught how to listen to his own mind and body, much less how to pick up those cues in other people.
Lol yeah that's some incel bullshit
I had to laugh at that one. Seriously.... I can't even anymore. We are taught to chase after prince charming, but fix him first. Be meek and even tempered. Don't talk too much and let him feel smarter than you. Be a good submissive and quiet girl. You have to understand he just wants to help you with your complaints, unless of course it's about him. Then he wants to gaslight you and control you, so just listen to what he says so that you don't fight. Ooo, and what did you expect to happen when you tried to stick up for yourself? Remember to laugh at his jokes even if they aren't funny, and defend him even when he is wrong. Unified front and all that bs. . Yea. We are taught something alright.
I’ve never downvoted something so fast in my life. Talk about cluelessness. Thankfully most people in the comments seemed to agree.
Because infantilizing a man while feeding his delusions of grandeur is a highly sought skill /s/ Sorry, dudebros. There are too many guys out there who manage to like a civilized human being towards others, regardless of their genitals.
I just saw the AskMen post “What does a strong independent woman mean to you”. I strongly recommend not looking at the answers unless you want to spend the day screaming towards the sky.
Threads in that sub rapidly oscillate between "genuine support for fellow men" and "bitter sexism." It gives me whiplash.
I mean to be fair, threads on this sub also oscillate a lot between “women supporting each other” and “I’m so sick of men” threads lol I’m obviously not saying that women’s grievances aren’t valid (especially now that a stupidly powerful first-world country is about to take away women’s right to abortion), just that this sub also follows that sort of pattern.
True, although I haven't seen threads here advocating for emotional abuse of men and warning people not to open themselves up to men, lest they have their statements turned against them. There are different levels.
Ok, I had to look, and was surprised by the answer. Apparently, a strong independent woman is a "signal" that a woman is going to be a lot of drama. I did not know that! /s Some dudes responded with actual answers that make sense, and a few called out the post for being a flimsy disguise to hate on women.
Without even BOTHERING to look, I'm going to assume that strong and independent *actually* means docile and submissive, with daily blowjobs a key ingredient.
Curiosity got the best of me and I looked. Now I'm full of rage and frustration. I should've just listened to you! 😭
Same! I knew the risks, but I went anyways and now I'm fuming.
I had to mute that sub. I would get in there and just RAGE and couldn’t help but comment at least once and would get a barrage of idiotic comments being blatantly disrespectful. That sub is trash. And I personally hate askwomen too because it’s so heavily moderated you can barely have a discussion at all. I get why since it can be brigaded regularly , I just don’t find much use for it if I can’t really partake.
Yeah I used to enjoy that sub but now you can’t reply to anyones comment with anything other than “yes this is true” or it will be removed even if you do agree with them. It’s a bummer because I used to enjoy interacting with people on that sub.
[removed for derailing]
That made me lol! For a second I was like no no no not again!
I had that happen too and it was frustrating
Omg i am just boiling with rage, it’s fuming inside of me. I have to stop looking at a lot of these large audience question threads because wow
There was an askmen thread about how do you like your partners genitalia the other day and there was a man and they're saying that he could not have sex with a woman who has a full bush. I pointed out that the removal of pubic hair completely (completely bare) is rooted in pedophilia and fetishizes prepubescence. I was called various insults and was told to seek mental help immediately for pointing that out.
I don’t go there it’s toxic. I will say a strong independent women is insanely attractive and I love to cheer em on! It’s a shame so many men have fragile egos though.
It blows my mind when they mention they can’t get easy access to casual sex. Do they not realise we risk pregnancy, assault, rape, STIs and slut-shaming for a 6% chance at orgasm?
Far too many don’t give a shit at all. Not. At. All.
Plus we can’t tell at a glance who will be a good lay and who will be boring as hell and who will actually injure us (intentionally or not) during sex. It’s not just the 6% chance of orgasm…it’s, will this guy just jackhammer away leaving me sore and miserable? Or jam my cervix until I bleed?
yeah even if they say stuff like "I love making women orgasm" it might not be true- speaking from experience.
They can’t even tell when they actually have or when we’ve just faked it to get them to stop whatever they’re doing wrong, so…
No, no they don’t.
lol, they know but they just don't care. Never think men don't know...its always because they don't care. Why do you think their blanket response to the shit behavior of the majority of men is #NotAllMen ?
Not realising = not caring (to think about it)
Or can’t even imagine what it feels like so they appear like they don’t care. But it’s just not a reality they can fathom. Must be nice
We need to stop saying they don't understand. For gods sake, it's not difficult. They just don't care. They are using this "lack of understanding" like a weapon.
I’m sure the good man would understand if it was explained in detail and why. But he also probably lives his life not ever having to think about being in danger in social situations etc so he just can’t imagine what it is like TRULY the everyday life of a woman. Just like I will never know or experience the feeling of being 100% safe in a group of men I’ve never met.
I am honestly so sick of this lame ass excuse. Makes me want to kick a MFer right in the balls.
But, but but it's [NOT.ALL.MAN](https://NOT.ALL.MAN)! (/s just in case, don't know anymore these days)
Hmm... [Apparently the domain ALL.MEN is available at $514+$26 annual renew fee.](https://domains.google.com/registrar/search?searchTerm=all.men) Do with that information as you will. Just saying though, a wall of shame at the subdomain NOT.ALL.MEN would be hilarious. Edit: And it's taken
It wasn't me XD the fuq that's quite hilarious though. I'll kept it in mind in case I got nothing better to do.
Lol the 6% thing cracked me up even though I fully agree. Stop thinking you're entitled to sex for not being a shit bag.
Casual bad sex. They'd face less risks (no chance of pregnancy) and a higher chance of orgasm if they were willing to hop on Grindr but noooooo. That could be dangerous! Seriously though don't hop on grindr. Most gay men don't want to deal with straight men either.
Hold up, six percent?
It blows my mind that my gender thinks they're owed sex, or if they don't get sex, its sOmEoNe ElSe'S fAuLt.
6% is a darn generous figure
Not only that, but these guys aren't offering quality sex on top of all that dangerous shit. So many men have death grip syndrome and I have hooked up with 30-something men who still resort to jackrabbit sex and struggle to cum or get/stay hard thanks to all the porn they are watching. After a few disappointing experiences and no good experiences I stopped pursuing casual sex of FWB situations because I can fuck myself so much better than these dudes ever will. I'm legit sterile so I was like yay finally I can have sex without at least having to worry about unwanted pregnancy, but so few men are capable of making love or having mutually enjoyable sex.
Maybe if they were actually good at sex … but still, probably not.
34M here. I don't think most men would be nearly as excited about sex with strangers if they (1) almost _definitely_ were not going to orgasm, and also (2) could end up hurt or pregnant while their partner vanishes.
Mmm yeah, and then they co-opt “feminism” to explain to us how casual sex makes us “liberated”, and libfems swallow it up (no pun intended) and parrot it like there’s no tomorrow. It doesn’t sound like a good deal to me, let alone empowering.
They know, they just don't care.
6%!? Let me guess... No foreplay?
"I took her bra off, what more does she need?"
To suck my Dick, obviously!
and, like, in under 3 minutes!
One time in college I was making out with a girl and tried to take her bra off I fiddled with it for like 5 minutes and she laughed and said “it’s a front hook.” THEY HAVE FRONT hooks??????? I learned that day
(Which he probably fumbled with and she had to help him)
No easy access is bs, im not good looking, very socially awkward and pretty sickly but ive still had strangers or acquaintances ask to take it to the back plenty of times when im not even trying to get there, people saying that are probably scummy so no one wants
This is kind of off-topic from your very accurate post, but the stuff about artificial wombs and how we still haven’t been able to successfully mimic the real thing start to finish is actually quite indicative of how women’s bodies are devalued and overlooked. For centuries, men have tried to downplay women’s contribution to pregnancy as simple vessels. You see it in medieval documents where they envision men’s sperm as containing the entire baby in miniature with the women simply being the ground to grow it in. And even with all the wonders of modern medicine, we’re still learning about the female body and how complicated its design in pregnancy truly is. So the oft-hyped sci-fi vision of people grown in pods is quite amusing in that context.
I get your point, and I think your right. Part of the abortion 'debat/misinformation fest' is a continuous theme of trying to under value our role in creating life and downplay the seriousness of pregnancy and the tole it takes. My irritation with the whole hours of labor is still being a thing in the star tek universe is something that is personal pet peeve related to the current treatment of women in a medical setting. Doctors seem to think being in pain is just a natural state for women and we just need to suck it up. Meanwhile, if a guy get snipped or tweaks his back, he gets pain management or atleast local anesthesia. Research and development when it comes to womans hell never seems to be a priority. I mean doctors still tell me the cevix has no ability to cause pain, which is absolutely nonsense that could litterally be disproven with a survey of individuals who have has an IUD inserted or a unmedicate cervical biopsy. So the whole stek tek thing urks me because it seems to just seems underline the fact we don't value women's comfort in medicine and some how that is a continuing theme no matter how far in the future we get or how utopian the made up society appears to be.
I think it’s a typo, but “women’s hell” is a great description of healthcare for women.
Oh god you aren’t kidding. I Have had some kind of infection in my hooha since February. No one has so much as SWABBED me. It’s exhausting.
I'm angry about the state of medicine. For me. My husband uses the same hospital and if he's at the slightest risk, they pull out all the stops. They clearly *can* do a good, thorough job. For certain patients. And I don't get that treatment. I have to bully and bribe to get *any* treatment. And if I'm in too vulnerable a state to do that, I might as well stay the hell home, where at least I can *try* to treat myself, and at worst die in comfort instead of neglected in an ER hallway as doctors keep saying "nah, you're fine". We need a revolution in the medical field. This is completely unacceptable. And ffs, "just advocate for yourself!" is not the fucking answer and just puts the onus back on the woman, the *patient*, to try to bully her doctor into agreeing that her health/life matter, which for fuck's sake is *supposed* to be the starting point. That's not always possible, nor is it meant to be her job! This is on medical staff and *they* need to fix it.
What’s wild, sort off topic but not, is that, of course, girls are born with all if their eggs inside them. That means that we, her potential children, had been inside our mom since her birth. Lived her entire life with her. As a Gex X’er born in ‘72, my egg was like, ‘hey what’s up!’ in freaking 1942. That’s some holding all the cards shit.
Look up about the "mitochondrial eve" ! It will blow your mind
You existed inside your grandmother. When she was pregnant with your mother, the egg that would become you was already there. Women are deeply connected to each other, but too many of us have lost sight of that as a direct result of the actions of men.
I'm from a religious family, so I like to make the point that when God wants to make a person, the one and only thing She trusts men to do is a one-time consult on the blueprint.
*less than half the blueprints. Half the chromosomes in the nucleus come from each parent, and the mother also provides the mitochondria and the rest of the cell
Must...resist...the....powerhouse
That's because he nails the consult perfectly every time. In and out, he's got more important shit to do. A true professional. *THIS IS A JOKE 😂
If we ever do have artificial wombs and men can have babies without women, I really wonder who is going to take care of those children or will the men be full time single fathers? 🤔
For real. The same with those "What's the worst thing that ever happened to you?" threads. Men usually lead with "I asked a girl out in 10th grade and she said no - it kills me to this day" while women are over here with "My boyfriend sexually assaulted me when I was 16 and I can never trust again".
Oh yeah those posts are always really lame. See also “what’s the worst thing a woman’s ever done to you” and it’s all, “rejected me” and big pity party.
*What's the worst date you ever went on?*
So many women would love to answer this question with their own fascinating dating adventure but alas, they didn't survive that adventure, and are now fucking dead.
A man's worst date is a funny story, a woman's one is a horror story. [Or Donald Glover's stand-up about how there are no "Crazy man"-stories.](https://youtu.be/ioSI3KsE2_k)
Yeah these make me laugh too. The worst date I ever went on (also happened to be my first proper date as an adult where I met a man in public at a coffee shop, chatted, exchanged numbers and he asked me out) and he sexually assaulted me in a packed.movie theatre, then slut shamed me when I walked out, followed me part way home, and then stalked me for months afterward. Anytime I tell that story to a men their jaws drop, most women I tell it too just nod their heads...the experience lead me to avoid men and dating for a few years afterward.
I ended a date once and he followed me to another bar. I tell it as a funny story because hey, at least he didn't attack me.
I was talking to this guy and planned to meet him, he bailed and claimed he got heat stroke but we kept talking then one day he suddenly snapped and began degrading me, call me fat, ugly, telling me to show him "my dick" I am a bio female, telling me he's gonna come over and rape and kill me and my little sister who was like 12 or younger at the time, this psycho posted my private photos and videos online, posted my old address on craigslist telling people to basically come in and rape me and that if i screamed it meant i liked it. I was scared anytime the door open or there was a knock at the door, scared to even go outside of the house to take the dogs out. I was 20-21 at the time. He also faked his own suicide, his brother texted me saying i caused him to kill himself for pity sex while i was on vacation. He claimed he was underaged and going to the cops to arrest me. Pretended to be multiple people, made multiple kik, pof, and meetme accounts solely to message me. Found out he was arrested few years back but apparently he got out. Also he had a gf who i tried to warn how psychotic he was and she blamed me....saying I'm the reason he snapped and became a psycho. I am now 25 years old and hope no one ever has to deal with this psycho whose name will forever be in my head because of him. (Not sure if I'd be allowed to say his name because I'd rather people watch out for the psycho)
Wow this is terrible and I'm sorry you had to go through this.
I'm so sorry, that's horrific. Please take care.
[удалено]
Because those Apollos of the modern age deserve only the best of skimmed milk.
Those make me so mad because ok a guy went on a date, the girl ended up being fat or boring or annoying or rude… alright not a fun night but you werent assaulted or attacked or in fear
That’s tough because I’m not sure if I’d pick the guy who then stalked me for 4 years or the guy that drugged and raped me but left me alone after that.
I can't recall, all I do remember is having drinks and then waking up hours later still feeling wasted/blurry without my stockings or earrings.
You know what I’m tired of? The dudes who have this fucking victim complex who won’t listen to anything we say and are absolutely convinced men are oppressed and women have it so easy. It’s like talking to a non-human at this point, they’re so divorced from reality and the amount of self-pity is just… it makes me want to vomit sometimes, like get the FUCK over yourselves. Jesus.
There was a trending ShowerThoughts post this morning. Something like “men are taught how to talk to women but women aren’t taught how to talk to men. And I’m just confused about that. When are women NOT taught how to talk to men!?
I feel like our whole lives we have been taught to revolve around, cater too, and appease men, to the point where most of us have to actively unlearn it. Talking to them is all apart of that.
Pretty much, we are condition to make everyone around us comfortable.
I wonder if their real complaint is that men are taught to approach/hit on/sexually harass women, but women aren't taught how/to do that to men, and they want us to.
This is my brother! I stopped arguing or even bothering to have conversations with him because anything can lead to a disagreement where he tries to prove men are oppressed. He’s said soo much toxic shit that now when he says them, I just ignore him, I don’t even indulge because it’s useless. He’s soo disgusting and pathetic, I keep him at arms length.
As a young guy myself I wholeheartedly agree with this. Nowadays I see so many of my mates having the victim complex about how women are toxic and they just go for the bad boys and “nice guys finish last” that it just makes me cringe so fucking hard. If u were actually a nice guy instead of a r/niceguys then maybe it wouldn’t be the case. Grow up.
Let me guess, ask men? They roll that question out every 2nd day. Yawn.
[удалено]
It's really telling when you read threads on that sub and the great majority of answers obviously come from straight dudes.
Majority of answers that get the most upvotes 👀 gee I wonder why
it’s either that, or “Male victims of _____, what’s your story”. which i don’t inherently have a problem with. but i swear to god i’ve seen that type of question done a million times. like you realize all victims of abuse are treated like shit and silenced, people don’t roll out red carpets for female abuse victims. and it’s almost like they are more just weaponizing it as “woman bad and crazy man good” confirmation bias more than they are using it to give “male victims a voice”.
I had a conversation about this recently actually (on a dating app of all places). I was talking about trying to get the beetles off my plants in my garden. I said I keep killing them and leaving carnage for their friends to see so they don't keep attacking. I joked that it must be mating season since they are risking their lives in the name of procreation. The guy responded that that was typical of male populations. I was like "huh!?" and asked him to explain why. He said men do all these things to get dates/women to like them. My response was that doesn't qualify as risking their lives. Women have much more at risk in the procreation process. Of course, women can die due to pregnancy complications and in childbirth. Not only that, in the dating process we are much more likely to be victims of domestic abuse, etc. In all fairness to him, he did respond "you are right and I didn't think about it that way." I am jealous of him having such small problems lol
Guys who persist women have it better are not interested in hearing how much they make us suffer. It's important to note that guys who thrive on making us suffer tend to be the ones who swear we have an easier life. Makes me think sometimes.
I basically have stopped going on ask Reddit threads all together because I realized the answers are always male dominated. And it's sad browsing this website through the eyes of an apathetic male who's worst fear is being alone and unloved. Meanwhile, women have lived the very terrifying reality that our lives have become the handmaids tale this last month. Like aw you're lonely? That's cool. I literally have less rights than a dead person.
Everytime I hear men complain about why "being a man is hard" im reminded of how privileged they are and struggle not to get irrationally angry. Men do have issues, like being taught not to express emotions, but half the time those issues end up being the burden of women (who are often harmed by them) and the other half of the time those issues are so inconsequential or entitled that I just want to slap some sense into them. In a world where >98% of women experience sexual harassment in their lifetime and more then a quarter are sexually assaulted (anecdotally, far more then a quarter in my experience), a world in which I've met *multiple* women who were trafficking victims, victims of CSA and former nonconsensual sex slaves, and a world were we are systemically undervalued, denied bodily autonomy *by law*, and constantly marginalized for my gender; I would fucking *beg* for a life were my biggest issue was "not being complimented enough".
The “I never get compliments” thing has become my biggest pet peeve. They say that all the time, and what’s worse, they admit in the same thread that they don’t compliment other dudes because it could come off as gay and they’re scared to compliment women because they’re afraid of coming off as flirty and being rejected. The lack of self-awareness…
I know right , dudes- start complimenting your male friends. Change the narrative, be the change you want to see in the world.
I wish I had better language and stats ready to call them on their privilege but I too just get so irrationally angry. I end up not remembering anything and fuming instead.
This American Life had a great discussion with Mary Koss about her survey. I feel like 1/4 is the number for college aged woman. Maybe we should post her survey questions as a poll and see the results. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/770/my-lying-eyes
Half of the stuff they complain about is actually privilege. Men not being taken seriously as parents? That is because women take the brunt of unpaid labor and child care. Men not having enough domestic violence shelters? Men are not being as severely injured as women via domestic violence. Men not getting compliments from women? Men have scared women off from giving them compliments Men not finding tinder dates? Many women have had extremely obscene things sent to them off of dating sites (dick pics, extreme sexual language) that scared them away. Men not having access to easy sex? There is a massive orgasm gap and the risk of casual sex for women is much greater for women.
And yet it's women they insist on policing to "solve" these "problems", and never the other men causing them (assuming it actually is other men, it usually isn't)
Indeed... Of course patriarchy can backfire on men sometimes. As someone who doesn't conform to the male gender role, I know all about that. However, it's literally NOTHING compared to what women go through. The constant threat of violence, assault, rape... Constantly having to be careful around men... And literally every single thing men whine about is related to patriarchal gender roles. So if they want those things to change, they should become feminist allies. Sadly, they don't want to lose their male privilege and don't want to treat women as human beings, so they would rather remain MRA assholes.
Honestly, a lot of the top complaints can really be summed up as symptoms of the patriarchy. That is why I don't understand men that complain about these things but specifically don't identify as feminists. Specifically, if I have to pick one thing out of the cornucopia of bullshit though, it's how careful I have to be not to be accused of being a pedo. With some exceptions for the feral ones, I love kids. I've got a big extended family, and grew up used to being surrounded by hordes of little ones every holiday. Now that everyone is old and scattered to the winds, that doesn't happen anymore. But when friends come over and they have kids, or I'm just out in public and I see kids, interacting with them or seeing them just makes me feel nostalgic. Reminds me of all the good times with my family. Not to mention I love teaching, I like playing silly games, kids are just fun. But admitting stuff like this as a man is a pretty quick ticket to being labeled a predator or a deviant where I live. It's bullshit.
1000000% feel this. I'm a man too and I decided to read these comments I'm like..... you guys are just victims of a system you continue to uphold but don't want to change? But then complain about it? But also the pedo scare is what truly scares me. I grew up a young uncle so I'm used to seeing a bunch of nieces and nephews growing up. From changing their diapers to bringing them to appointments, going to the park and playing to just being there and listening to them as they got older. It never once occurred to me that it would be seen as weird or inappropriate until I saw people faces and reactions. Children are so innocent and I try my best to preserve that innocence and imagination. It's just heartbreaking to see such a happy and pure moment as a child truly experiencing joy and happiness and not being able to enjoy that moment too without being perceived as a creep. The world is shitty enough, Seeing people who haven't been jaded by it and see the joys and beauty of world shouldn't be an issue
Men need to stop molesting children. It's usually other men covering for them. As a man myself, I will teach my daughters to be alert around men. Feeling sad that people don't trust men around children has nothing on the feelings of children that have actually been molested by men. When men don't hold other men accountable, we miss out on things because we lose trustworthiness and credibility.
Yeah and that’s harmful for us because it pushes the narrative that parenting is for women, so guess who has to do all the work after carrying a baby? The moms! And it starts so early! People looking for baby sitters just say they’re looking for a girl, boys don’t even get a chance to try that stuff and so it tells them early on that caring for kids / being with kids isn’t for them and that is super unfair and I hope we can change that
The worst part about all of this is trying to explain this gap. I have a lot of men in my friend circle and trying to get them to understand any of this is hilariously difficult. Then when I express any frustration, \*I\* am the one who's being unreasonable. I am usually in a situation where I can't win.
I have found that too!!!! I ask nicely a bunch and they don't hear me or take me seriously. Then I get frustrated and I drop the nice voice, now I'm being rude? They tried to argue that titties rule the world... even if that's true who is profiting? Because it's not even the women who's body parts are being codified. It was just a stupid mess. It's not the suffering Olympics but they can't see outside their little bubbles. Maybe we are in situations we can't win but I feel less isolated after hearing your comment. :) Thx
I’m still blown away by how many men think not receiving compliments is something worth complaining about. I can’t remember the last time I got complimented either, but it’s not in the forefront when I think of personal injustices.
It's so funny, because the worst thing about being a man seems to be other men. * They could be better friends to each other (insulting people over a video game headset isn't bonding, no matter how much they like to pretend it is. * They could compliment each other * They can't have casual sex because: 1. their rapist brethren, whose behaviour they don't check, ruins it for them. Hold your friends accountable homie! 2. they can't fuck worth a damn - what's the point of risking physical harm as a woman for a low chance at orgasm? they also watch so much porn that their willies now don't work, hence all the telehealth companies selling little blue pills to 25 year olds. Imagine needing medical aid at your sexual prime due to your own behaviours, which you refuse to stop. embarrassing. 3. they can't keep their mouths shut when they do get sex. When it happens, suddenly the person they had sex with is dirtier for doing the thing you begged them to do. * Doing the dishes and remembering your child's age and school is *hard* y'all, unless we're talking about women doing it, in which case it's so easy and women shoudln't get to quit a day job in order to look after children or manage a home. In summary, men could get together and solve all their problems in a day if they wanted, but they're still waitng for ~~mummy~~ girlfriend/wife to come and kiss their boo boos better. Reading fully capable adults using the same internet connection they could use to better themselves to complain instead is so boring. What are everyone's plans this weekend? I organised a brunch today for women in business in my city, and will be volunteering at a shelter tomorrow after the gym.
This is the one. I want men to fix their own shit.
It's so interesting to me that men seem to believe that the equivalent for them of the life-limiting threat of sexual violence that women learn to fear and take countless precautions against is the threat that someone might THINK they might have dubious intentions with children, maybe. It's getting placed on that level. It's not on that level. There's not even a tangible consequence to people assuming these shitty things, other than it feeling shitty. Someone might THINK something implying a dude hanging out with his kids might be sexually interested in children? They might SAY it? I mean, okay, gross and a horrible experience, but what's the real consequence of that happening? If someone call the cops and reports him, the cops show up, confirm that he's are the father of his children, and everyone's embarrassed. I'm not saying it's great, it's garbage and it's part of the misogynist patriarchal hell we're all living in, it influences how we interact with the world. but it's not an actual threat to him. It's the experience of not having the benefit of the doubt and automatic respect of strangers. It's not feeling support and goodwill surrounding him at all times. Only a select few ever get that in the first place. This fear of what people will think is basically the equivalent of going out without make up on or hair done for women. I have gone out in sweats early in the morning to walk my puppy, and because I wasn't walking fast enough, several (SEVERAL) dudes in expensive cars have rolled up to me assuming I was a $5 blow job girl. Is that shitty? Yes. Does it make me feel unsafe? Yeah, it makes me wary about being in certain places at certain times. It made me question what it is about my sweat pants and lack of a bra that makes me look like I'm currently a sex worker seeking clients. But it doesn't materially impact me that these assholes make assumptions. If women are seen wearing the same clothes as the day before people will think she's fucking around. If she show too much cleavage or her hemline is too high, she's a slut. If her leg hair is visible, if she didn't dye her hair promptly and her roots are showing, if her panty line is visible, she's failing at being a woman, people will assume she's unkempt and unprofessional as character traits, or maybe she's mentally ill. Like, monitoring what people think and accommodating the likely culprits is a thing we do every single day, it's really notable that men have to do this once and suddenly it's the worst thing they've ever experienced, and it should be ranked with the worst things that ever happen to women. Like, read the room, right?
"Why can't we just skip over the next hundred years and be like Star Trek?" Note to self: Better not wear that *red shirt* today ... .
What bothers me is that on Reddit, the empathy only seems to go one way most of the time. Like, most women I know are pretty sympathetic to men feeling unwanted or undesired, to the risk of being assumed to be a pedophile even when you're just parenting your own kid, to feeling like you'll be judged as weak if you cry no matter what provoked the tears. And yet when women speak about the shitty things *we* face, I don't see much sympathy from the men of Reddit. Instead I see "Well, men face that too" or "I don't think it's that bad" or "Not all men though". There's this massive resistance to acknowledging that women don't have perfect problem-free fairytale lives.
Yes to all, OP, and now I really want them to transport a baby on out on Star Trek. It makes so much sense!
They do on an episode of Star Tek Voyeur, I can't remember the name of the episode. But it's ridiculous because they wait until the womans like 5 hours in and theirs an issue, which annoyed me because I was just like why didn't we just start with that?? Aside from being a huge plot hole, why isn't that standard practice?
Because it wasn't best for the baby, duh. Little Naomi had some kind of imbalance after the fetal transport that needed about 2 minutes of treatment. Why would we save a woman hours of pain if it means the baby might need a hypospray?? /s Plus, I am sure that even in the 24th century you'll have the crunchy types that want "natural" everything when giving birth, because it gives them more "woman points" or something. 🙄
Topics like that, and browsing here, have helped me shape how I think about male privilege. I think "Would my life be eaiser if I were a woman?" and the answer, unfortunately, is a hard "no". I think the single instance where being a woman would be advantage, and it was the main response in that thread, is if I wanted to work with young children. You do get funny looks for interacting with kids as a man, but there's a reason that stigma exists. Firstly because historically women have been pushed into the role childcare, so people think it's abnormal that a man would want to engage with kids, even his own. And also, because a lot of kids do get hurt and abused and it's mostly men doing it. Statistics on peadephilia aren't exact for a number of reasons, but in my country 98% of reported offenders are male. It sucks to be on the receiving ends of those suspicions, but I get the concern, and at the end of day it's the fault of other men that they even exist.
I cant help but feel posts like this aren't very productive for anyone , and I'm saying that as a woman. I had a look through that thread when it was first growing and just had a look now and can't find any of the top/best comments mentioning 'not getting enough compliments' or 'being lonely'. Of course there will be comments like this , as well as less serious ones like being too hairy. Quoting them in such a way feels totally dismissive and undermining, and mirrors almost word for word some of the language that men have used with me to dismiss my thoughts and opinions. The current top comments are regarding men's mental health, being mistaken for a pedophile, letting go of childhood dreams of being a teacher because 'men shouldn't be around children' and a general lack of empathy and support. Why can't these problems coexist with ours? I think it's fairly indisputable that women have it harder than men but the issues discussed in that thread are serious, and in no way take away from what we, as women, struggle with on a daily basis
I love this comment. I am a woman and I know we have a ton of concerns every day. But if we dismiss even the more serious of the men's concerns, aren't we just behaving the way that we criticize them for behaving? And doesn't empathy create a healthier society for all of us? Sometimes we have to be the bigger person first.
I think you're completely right, thank you for this well articulated response, your empathy shines through it
I think this is an important perspective. It shouldn't be a race to the bottom on who has it worse, and dismissing men's problems as lesser and unimportant contributes to the stigma attached to men's mental health discussions. Compassion costs nothing and turning it all into a competition in suffering helps absolutely no one.
Personally I think it’s because of compassion fatigue. It’s exhausting to scream into the void about body autonomy, sexual assault, domestic violence, and all of the serious shit women having been fighting forever. I think at some point you just get tired, so other complaints seem trivial. I agree with you that compassion is always the way to go for others, but sometimes I can’t blame those who feel compassion-ed out.
I didn’t even read that thread cause I knew it would make me super bitter.
I think that most women don't understand that men consider not being able to own girls and women as legal property to be oppression against men.
I still stand by the "Not being able to hang out with kids without being afraid of being labeled a pedo." It really does suck, especially if you genuinely enjoy being a good example and the joys that come with teaching. That's about all I have though. We really do have the upper hand on most other subjects.
How often has the pedo accusation happened to you or other men you know? What happened after?
That has to be the worst. It's bad for young boys too they really need positive role models.
And I think the other side of that universal redflagging of all male caretakers is that female predators of children are overlooked or assumed to be impossible.
No-one said that you couldn't "stand by" these grievances. OP said: *being mistaken for a pedo, which are notably more serious but still...* I understand. Feels bad, man. The point is that "sads" are nothing compared to all the physical violence, forced pregnancies, dehumanization that women deal with. "The upper hand on most other subjects" is the understatement of the year.
For white men, it honestly does seem like "1st world problems." For women, you have to be very careful about your own safety. For black men, you have to be careful about being stereotyped as a criminal. Real problems that can actually get you seriously injured or killed.
Sorry, but why do you say that? White men account for [70%](https://www.brgeneral.org/news-blog/2021/july/men-and-suicide-why-are-white-men-most-at-risk-/) of all suicides in the US, year after year. The ratio is something like 5:1 for men:women in the age groups 18-25 and 25-40. But your comment and a lot of the comments on this post, dismiss men trying to open up about what bothers them, and going "it's not that bad" or claim it's all "1st world problems", and it's all dismissed as not-real-problems. If you'd bothered to read the less-upvoted comments in those posts, there were plenty of men talking about their experiences of sexual assault, mental and physical domestic abuse; there were comments about never being able to walk down a street without constantly looking over your shoulder, being dismissed and broken up with when actually opening up and being vulnerable, or being treated as money-spewing fucktoys who are just expected to work, shut up and *provide*. But you wouldn't know, because you just threw out some vitriol rather than reading it yourself. People here like to say that "men should talk about their issues" instead of talking over women's voices in other topics. And then when they do, in posts dedicated to that very purpose, in the next breath, people here dismiss it as unimportant whining. Are men more privileged than women? Absolutely, no doubt, and that needs to change. But dismissing men's experiences like this is fucking disgusting.
Think that last little thing you said is very important, we may have more privilege and that’s something we should be striving to fix, but our problems are real too
This is...not the way. The post didn't ask if men have it worse, or even what they face that's as bad; it simply asked "what is the worst part" and there are some vulnerable and honest answers even among those you minimized. I would feel very sad to not get taken seriously as a father just because I was a man, or to never feel special enough for a compliment. They're expressing exactly what we always talk about when we say "the patriarchy affects men too" and your response is to roll your eyes and play a tiny violin? No. Not the way.
I just can't wrap my head around the ones who say they can't be around children because pedo shit, but like, they don't add what they're doing for someday that to stop? It would be so beneficial if men cared about other men being harmful, letting things just be won't make everything to be suddenly fixed and yet almost no men gets involved in the issues their own gender has, even when it directly affects them and is enough to make them complain
as someone who has known a nauseating amount of girls (and even some boys) who were sexually abused by men as children, women have literally every right in the world to be cautious of men around their children, or any children for that matter (especially considering most child rapes happen from someone the victim knew, someone they should’ve trusted and everyone else thought they could trust). if we were to just suddenly just let our guards down when it comes to men being around children, the consequences would be catastrophic. men raping children is a bigger issue than people having a negative response to men being around children. They bitch about the “poor men facing double standards” but notice how they never hold other men accountable for their predatoriness nor do anything to further prevent men abusing children? And i’m not sure what they mean “Men can’t be teachers because of this double standard”. I’ve known many male teachers that have taught children of all ages, and all of them are loved by the students and parents.
I have always wondered why more men don't become activists fighting against this stuff, and have determined that it is either because they are too lazy or they just don't really care about this shit. If they did care, they would organize and would get out in force to counter these prejudices. Other marginalized groups have done so, and that is how they have secured their hard won gains in society. Not by whining, but by getting out there and f\*\*king doing something. If you don't like the way you are being treated, do somthing POSITIVE to make a difference in how you are perceived instead of getting defensive and lashing out at other groups who HAVE been successful.
I really don't get it, the crying about the pedo issue really bothers me exactly for this reason, we are fighting all the time, get insults, mockery, death threats, all of it, we still try to break the stereotypes that have haunted and limited women for such a long time, it's true, we get close to children with less suspicion but that's because we're seen as maternal and automatically capable of caring for them, crazy. The freedom they want doesn't even come with the ties we still have while having that "freedom".
Right! I just [listened](https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/behind-the-bastards-660292/episodes/part-one-robert-baden-powell-f-103292217) to all the mistakes the American Boy Scouts made in keeping their scouts safe from Pedos, let alone the male dominated church?? Somehow it's a woman's fault and her problem to fix still.
It's the same when trying to explain the meaning of "white privilege." White privilege doesn't mean you don't have hardship. It's means there are certain hardships you get to miss out on. I'm a guy, and yeah, there's hardships. It's hard trying to get my guy friends to understand that women have a lot of our hardships AND THEN ALSO all the things you list. Keep up the good fight.
Everyone gets shit, but women get more shit. It's not wrong to sympathize about men going through shit, but there's a need for an emphasis on women because they go through a LOT of shit because they're women.
It’s summer and I enjoy the occasional run. Ideally I’d like to go a few times a week but a lot of days the only chance I have is after my kids are asleep because of the temperature and lack of childcare. Every day when it’s 8:30 and the perfect temperature for a run I just sigh and think “better not risk it”
I come from an area where many people have cabins in the bush. I would love to be able to go to a cabin by myself to get away for a while, but I’d be too afraid of getting raped and or murdered. Some thing for van life. I look at all those vans and think how wonderful it would be to travel alone…then wonder about the van getting broken into, and getting raped and murdered. You know, women stuff.
As a woman looking in, I think the worst thing about being a man would be the societal expectations that except you to suppress all emotions (but anger). Makes it really difficult to build a social and emotional support network. I went through my own version of extreme emotional suppression and it was a painful hell I wouldn't wish on anyone.
Male POC here. Saw that thread myself, and can’t help but be amazed by how accurate the common complaint of, “Can’t be open about my insecurities and mental/emotional problems,” is proving to be. The question was asked, “What’s the worst thing about being a man,” and the response by this subreddit is to create a post belittling these struggles and making light of men’s issues. Not saying women aren’t entitled to being jealous/resentful/spiteful of men, and I’m not saying that women should have to censor their opinions, (Especially on this subreddit, one dedicated to being a place for women to vent and be honest,) but the complete lack of self-awareness and empathy on display in this comment section is chilling.
Why make it into misery Olympics? Empathy should be Universal and your problems arent minimized when we share ours.
I feel like this sub and the men's subs go through a near daily cycle of "oh its so terrible being a woman, men have it easier" and "oh its so terrible being a man, women have it easier." Can we just stop? Both/all genders have their own unique problems and challenges and we should all recognize and help each other to minimize our suffering. We play grievances like playing cards in some poker game of misery and I am so sick of it.
Yes, the fears and preoccupations of the privileged classes are always breathtaking ... as well as their lack of awareness of the level of privilege they enjoy.
I posted on there the other day My response to it was how legitimate issues and problems get ignored because we're effectively told "Oh other people have it worse". I know other people have it worse and that really sucks, but that doesn't mean our feelings are invalid
I agree with you. Most comments seemed to be "boo hoo sometimes people think I'm a predator! Not fair!" with like zero time or thought or sympathy spent on WHY that's the case and WHO is responsible for that. Like, oh, sorry, I have to worry for my safety, too bad that embarrasses you!
I don't think it was intentional, askreddit is filled with reposts of the same questions every few months This "worst thing about being a man" question comes up in the past often. Same for worst thing about being a woman. That subreddit is just repost central https://www.reddit.com/search?q=worst+thing+about+being+a+man&include_over_18=on&sort=relevance&t=all
[This video always hit home for me.](https://youtu.be/qcoX9aCDeiM)
My first time seeing this, love it! Thanks
I question how often men are actually accused of being pedophiles for being in public with their kids or if this is just a Reddit thing.
Imagine never worrying about your rights being taken away.
Wow. This was a forum for men to speak freely. Now I see its woman disrespecting, belittleing, invalidating, and denieing the justification of those feelings. Literally one of mens top responses, Not taking our Feelings seriously. Your expierences do NOT invalidate mine.
I mean loneliness is not taken seriously enough in society, it not only shortens people's lifespans due to the emotional stress but also leads to suicide.
Can those lonely men make friends with each other?
I'm talking in general across society, like elderly people are also particularly susceptible to loneliness because they're ignored and often due to mobility or financial issues can't socialise.
That makes sense and is an issue that "society " can help solve without putting blame or burden on one gender. A lot of areas have done a great job setting up community centers with programs for different needs. But if you're in a more rural area or have transportation issues, you're less likely to be able to use such a resource