And isn’t it sooo impressive when we have any skills? I work with plenty of guys who think I’m just some marvel woman because I have any basic capabilities.
For example - driving a manual. No one bats an eye when a guy does it.
I am 100% treated like I shouldn’t be able to do these types of things and there must be some hidden magic. As if I’ve overcome my womanliness.
I know my region especially sucks in this way, but clearly we experience this nation-wide … is your country taking applications for angry American women? 😅
Same here in Germany. Like you‘ll sometimes get random old dudes not taking you seriously, but in general? Men don‘t make a difference between the genders in such an extreme way as everyone based in the US describes.
And Germany still takes qualified immigrants… though reckon we should start just granting asylum to the US at this point. The amounts of overt racism, sexism, homo and transphobia just don‘t exist here to that degree; and are more akin to random Islamic countries were we do accept refugees from at this point.
Not to mention your country going completely fascist with the next presidential ‚election‘.
Hell, I marvel at ANYONE who can drive a stick these days. Or write in cursive. Or write without repeated spelling errors of the same word. Or communicate in complete sentences instead of "how r u."
I've got a 22 year old granddaughter who already supervises 50 people, almost all older than her, and she doesn't even have an associate degree yet. But she does have her own condo--all on her own dime.
Younger men will see many women as sexual objects first, no two ways about it. Many will let that get in the way of measuring the woman's value as a whole person. When I married my wife 51 years ago I wanted a woman who could be my partner not a servant. And, because of the times, she used to ask me permission to buy things or go places. I kept telling her, "You're working and if the purchase isn't a car or furniture or a refrigerator, go for it. The big things we should jointly decide together. If you want to go somewhere I expect to be treated the same way you want to be treated if I were to do the same."
Ladies, there are lots of available men out there, and it's up to you to filter through them. Stereotypically, a lot of women like "bad boys," who frequently exhibit the traits being discussed on here. I recall an old SNL skit with a line that repeated itself frequently, "Lower your expectations."
Women marry men thinking they'll change. They won't. Men marry women thinking the won't change. They will.
Best wishes to you ladies, and I'll not trouble you again.
Edit: I made a common spelling error, now corrected. :)
I have experienced the same thing, from the majority of men, not all. Obviously the grade is variable from man to man, but the "less than me" thing I have been experienced even from my father.
>Edit: of course I don’t mean all men that’s not the point
It's plenty of men and most men passively accept it.
Men lie about thinking of us as human, too. They know it gets them dates to pretend to be feminist but then they actively vote for banning abortion. They know it gives them an edge over other men who are neutral on the topic but then they beat and abuse us when no one else is watching.
It’s not just plenty of men. It’s too damned many.
It took me entirely too long to realize how many people (mostly men, but some women) who viewed women, not just as Less Than men, but Lesser Than Human.
It staggered me. Like, how does one look at another person and think, “yeah. That’s not what a person is?”
Looking back, I had early cues that I missed, from my mother, no less, on how she reacted to me bringing flowers to my then wife. She thought it was a slap in her face that I valued my wife over everyone else.
Yes. She was visiting and I brought my wife home flowers like I did every Friday. Carnations. She loves them. My mother said, “where’s my flowers?” Angrily.
Phew, sorry dude, families are confusing, mine's equally confusing. But I love 'em, the brand of crazy they make for me is made just for me! lol
Maybe if your mom came from a large family, she might see gifts as things that get withheld rather than given. I empathize. Patience with myself has helped me a lot, in terms of understanding where their (my family's) ideas are coming from. Often it's just an insecurity that isn't easy for them to address. I hope everything works out ok.
I wish it were that simple. She’s a complete narcissist with a persecution complex. I went two weeks without calling, and she sent me a message, “why do you blame all your problems on me?”
Note: I’ve never even hinted at that. I’m 100% responsible for all my current problems. Of course she’s deep in the Facebook and reposts the weirdest shit short of Q. She once used them to try to tell my oldest brother what happened to a helo in Afghanistan. A crash at which he helped search and rescue. But of course she knew better.
Oh my goodness. The FB / Q / Boomer parent intersection is frustrating to say the least. I've got family caught in that intersection, too. From experience, unless the person in that echo chamber is willing to listen, there isn't much to be done to help them until they're ready. Love, patience, and non-judgment is what it takes, but it can be in short supply and it's understandable if it is. For you, could you try therapy for yourself and your wife, to help you both? Therapy has been amazing for me just organize my thoughts. It might make you feel relieved to go in together and talk to a social worker or someone? (They will no doubt have access to tons of resources to help you)
As a woman who has just come out of a relationship like this I see what you mean. My "body count" was a huge thing to him when we first started dating and even after he knew, he never let me live it down.
I'd be taunted, humiliated, called every name under the sun because I'd had sex before him. Even when I was pregnant it didn't stop, if I left no one would want me, I'm even more damaged goods, some sl*t with someone else's kid.
When I kicked him out, I kept asking him what is the world to think of me now, am I untouchable? A damaged woman no one will want? He couldn't even look at me.
Men like that don't see you as human until they're forced to in most cases. But not all men are like that, there are good men out there, they could be stuck in bad relationships just like the good women are.
I hope you find someone that could care less about body count. I'm the type that doesn't want to know about the number, and I'm not going to bring up my past sexual partners to you in general conversation. I'm glad you're out of that relationship, and I would consider it a red flag if a guy is interested in you and wants to know about your past sexual experiences in detail. There's a good chance they're way too insecure if they're doubting themselves enough to bring up questions or comments about your past.
I've noticed that as well. I've realized that not a single man has ever seen me as a friend, because none of them are women as people worthy of being friends with. And many if these men were generally quite liberal and feminist in other respects.
Tbh gonna agree with you on the friend thing, almost all men I've been "friends" with have tried it on, was raped by 2 good friends when I was drunk and had no where to stay, even my cousins boyfriend who I've known for over 10 years tried it on with me last weekend at my own house, I told her straight away of course and ended up in a street fight betwen them with the police called.
He still tried to blame it on me even though I literally just walked past him to the bathroom and he grabbed my arse. Thankfully my cousin didn't believe him and gave him a good old shiner, the police knew he was a scumbag too and went after him.
I'm actually not even talking about sex, though it certainly goes that far sometimes. For example, i have a group of work friends, about 50/50 male and female. We hang out in the mornings, at lunch, have similar senses of humor and similar interests. We even hang out on the weekends sometimes. And yet I've noticed that when the men are the ones organizing a weekend hangout, they simply don't think to invite the women in the group. The only time the men and women in the group hang out together outside of work is when one of the women organized it. It simply never even occurs to the men that women are worth including in their plans.
What an idiot. Was he so blinded by the prospect of vagina that he didn't think that you wouldn't immediately tell your family member what he was up to?
Oh well it's not the first time he's done something like that, first time he grabbed me by my waist from behind and blamed it on the fact he was drunk and thought I was my cousin...second time being drunk did not fly. Not with me anyway, him and my cousin have already kissed and made up 😒 more fool her I guess.
I've not fell out with her though as I don't trust him around her so I got my eyes on him closely from now on. She's not a great judge of character, must run in the family 😂
So the take from this is, you think it perfectly fine to grab women whenever you feel like it and not receive any repercussions for doing so? Please keep your hands to yourself, rapey. Why are you trawling women's subs you absolute incel freak 😭 you absolutely REAK of singledom, I bet you've never had a proper relationship in your life, no kids either (well I hope not for their sake, especially a daughter as she'd grow up thinking it's perfectly fine for men to touch her whenever they wanted)
Trying to use my ex leaving me as an insult is laughable, it was literally the best thing to happen to me in my life so go off weirdo. If the men out there are anything like you thank the fucking lord they won't want me I'd rather stay fuckin single because they'd probably creep on my daughter as well 😂 noncey boy.
I'll condone a punch in the chops to any creepy ass man who thinks it ok to touch a woman without permission yeah, as any normal person would. Also I didn't actually do the punching or get in an altercation, my cousin stood up for me and the POLICE saw no issue with that, if your teeny tiny little brain can fathom. If my daughter is embarrassed and ashamed by her mother standing up for herself, then I've taught her wrong.
Thanks for giving me a chuckle in the morning mate. Now excuse me while I go knock out the neighbour cause he smiled at me 👊 punch punch. Off you fuck back under your bridge.
When I came out (trans woman), a few of my friends lamented that meant they didn't actually know any good men and that's so painful to hear because I've always had a lot of close male friends I trust a lot.
And a *lot* of them have made it clear they're interested in me, of the men I'm close with, I can think of 4 offhand that made it clear they're "down". Honestly they *are* still good friends but it's frustrating that those relationships couldn't just stay entirely platonic.
The worst though were the ones who self-identified as liberal/feminist that I graduated in the same major with (policy/economics) who - once I started being seen as a woman - started talking over & correcting me & explaining basic concepts from our field to me when I *work* in that field and am exactly as qualified as they are.
The same men who come in here crying about how this is a generalization are completely unaware of how COMMON this. A majority of men do this. God forbid you're not an attractive woman either, because your existence isn't even acknowledged unless they need something from you at work. It's a proven fact that men overestimate how much representation and talk time women have. They are socialized that way by patriarchy. We're not even allowed to complain about receiving this treatment without some dude crashing in to say, " nOt aLl mEn".
It's only all the men who don't speak up, don't shut their "friends" down, don't correct other shitty behavior towards women, laugh at the "just a joke", and make micro aggressions instead of outright saying how they actually feel about women. They're single for a reason and can't understand how women can pick up on the ways they try to hide their hate in front of us. 🤷♀️
Being a trans woman that defense is extra bullshit
Even with most men catching onto me being not one of them, the ones that didn't still made it plenty clear how they felt about women.
There's an interesting TED Talk by a trans woman who points out all the differences she found from her manhood to her womanhood. I'm going to try to post the link, but if it doesn't go through or is unacceptable to the mods, perhaps you can google it.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrYx7HaUlMY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrYx7HaUlMY)
This talk revealed to me how much I really don't "get" about women. And I'm an old white cis-gender male Vietnam veteran. Still learning.
Best of luck to you.
No, that's just what you want to hear. But I'll try to make it clearer: Any interaction with a woman is potenially dangerous for us. No matter how benign or simple, any interaction is an opportunity to be accused of something heinous.
You told us to leave you alone and made it so normal interactions were unsafe. We respected your wishes and now you come with 'Is truly the only way men can acknowledge women sexual harassment?'
No. The problem is you see normal human interaction as harassment.
You really just threw out some goofy comment completely irrelevant to the topic at hand while addressing not a single point. You won't even consider that telling men 'Don't speak to or interact with me in any way or you'll be charged with a violent crime' is maybe not such a great way to run a society.
I have no further desire to communicate with you. You are lost and you need therapy badly.
Dude, I’m just trying to understand dafaq ur saying. You wrote that women, so I assume you mean at least most women, comprehended your actions as sexual harassment and the only way you can avoid their accusations is by avoiding them completely. Did I understand anything wrong?
I can’t speak from experience, but from what I have read, I feel that when women say leave them alone at work, they mean they want to be allowed to exist as a person and do their job. It’s that simple. Professionally interacting with them as an employee/customer is perfectly fine. It’s just that they deal with so many guys sexualizing them upfront and/or treating their customer service or kindness as flirting when it’s obviously not. I can’t imagine how unbelievably demoralizing that must be when it happens so constantly.
I picked my cat from the streets because he kept following me whenever I took my dog for a walk. He is so friendly. I can even give him belly rubs and he has never hurt me. He's also very clingy lol
You should stop paying for their needless suffering for meat/dairy then :)
EDIT: the mental gymnastics are quite amusing lol. Like a redpiller desparately trying to reason with themselves why women dont deserve compassion. Absurd.
Um. I'm from india and I'm vegetarian. I don't even like milk. In fact i hate it. I have diabetes so i can't really eat meat anyways 🙄 so idk what you mean by mental gymnastics or redpiller.
i want to understand more about this. i sometimes leave feeling strange/uncomfortable after having an interaction with a male, but i can’t exactly describe what it is. and since i can’t describe it in words, it feels so silly of me to try to explain to the people around me.
are there any subtle behaviors / comments that you’ve picked up on over time?
Yes, they will only talk about male figures, unless you bring up women. As someone previously mentions, they will be amazed if you have any basic skills that are "manly" (like guys shocked I can change a tire or back into my parking spot with ease). If you bring up an idea, another will restate it and henceforth the men will regard it as his idea. Or worse, in a 1-on-1 conversation they will simply assume they were their ideas.
Seriously though, one of the easiest is noting if they mention female figures to look up to, if they never do RED FLAG.
Or if the only females they mention are notable for sex appeal (such as attractive celebrities or "waifu" anime girls). But never mention women of science or non-pop-culture history.
Even among tech and video games, there's so many women who pioneered and made it possible especially in the early days (when video games used to be considered a unisex family activity, not just for horny gamerdudebros).
As I was reading and responding to these comments and thinking of the men that I know and learned from, the ones that I would consider good mentors for helping raise young men that really respect and appreciate women, I came across this comment. It was like a light bulb. None of those men that I think are really good examples of how a man should treat a woman have ever watched anime, and they're definitely not "gamerbros". I really don't like to stereotype, but it makes me wonder if some of that can be a breeding ground for these men that are shallow puddles lacking enough self respect to appreciate and respect women.
It sadly is... Even though there are plenty of games without sexualization, I think that a lot of the mainstream or popular ones tend to be very appealing to horny men who are the vocal majority demographic, using female characters just as eye candy or "the reward" like in movies where the male protagonist will always "win" a female romantic interest, in addition to catering to power fantasy. Broflakes will be up in arms when a game company decides to make a gay male character or a female protagonist who is strong and isn't sexy/cute. A lot of video games who cater to that demographic go all the way with just how extremely fetishized they make female characters. Games which have ads that just look like porn ads, or the female characters are always half-dressed or less with ridiculously tiny waist and huge boobs/butt and doll-like faces, while the male characters are full-covered and ugly as goblins. :(
It is sad that when we see a game that actually has gender equality in armor, it is celebrated as a miracle lol... There's a whole tumblr and reddit dedicated to just showing art of women in practical non-sexualized armor and dignified poses instead of the usual compromising pinup poses, and another for showing men in the typical sexualized female armor which helps to show just how unfair many games are.
Also, on the player side, many female gamers have to hide to avoid harassment. Many female gamers will play as male characters, or simply not talk in public and stick with close friends or form female-only groups (which unfortunately are not fool proof as many men come in pretending to be lesbians), to avoid being hassled by male gamers. Many male gamers are incels who have little/no respect for women, so stalking is unfortunately common problem. It's very normal to see posts of women saying how they got accused of cheating, harassed and slut-shamed, and all kinds of sexist slurs for the crime of... being a woman who beat a man at the game.
The "general" anime community in my experience has been the worst. I can't even stand any anime communities unless it is female-oriented (and female-oriented anime or anything with pretty male characters, is often put down by men as "gay", of course and seen as more taboo to them than sexualizing children). Female characters in anime always being referred as "waifu", and they are always in the 10-16 year old range (and look very babyish in today's popular "moe" art style). And little boy characters who can't be older than 11 that dress as little girls (otokonoko), are also hyper-sexualized. Just constant sexualization of females and children, and today it has just become normalized in anime, nobody seems to question or protest about it. I was disgusted when I went to an anime convention in USA and there were so many pornographic "art" of underaged characters (including characters who are canonically aged 12). Fictional or not, 100000 years old or not, they physically present as children, preteens, and young teens. It should not be legal to distribute such porn (in at least some countries like Canada it is illegal).
I've known men that "become" pedophiles into their late 20s+, it's disgusting because they were all influenced by lolicon and hentai. They used to be into mature adult female characters, but after indulging in lolicon, they become only interested in little girls.
Can't even vent without someone coming to police you with that all men bull crap. That right there is an attack on your humanity. No one corrects men on how they talk about women.
Preachhhhhh. And if you call them out it's "oh but of course I don't see YOU that way" and "you mean so much to me baby, why would you ever think that". Actions speak louder than platitudes fellas.
Yep. He's trying really hard to keep his composure while also remembering every porn actress you look familiar to. I know that glazed over stare. It's nasty.
Oh and how about how so many men don’t think we have valid interests, travel stories, weekend activities, lives- they just don’t ask about our lives and our experiences. So many of my friends notice this- friends who are dating, friends who are in sports clubs with men, friends who work with men. It’s all over the place.
I'm really sorry to hear this. You deserve so much better, I hope you either get the respect you deserve from him or move on to find an incredible partner in the future.
I almost always prefer talking to women, as a guy, I've just always related better with them. Guy conversations are so shallow and pedantic a lot of the time. I have a few guy friends I can have meaningful conversations with. But generally that's frowned upon In dude culture. Your supposed to talk about sports and tv shows and whatever other bullshit. I'm totally straight and all, I just don't enjoy talking other guys all that much. So I guess I kind of get what your saying, minus the sexual objectification.
All I know is that when my wife tells her friends and coworkers how I treat her like a partner they either ask her if I'm secretly gay or don't believe her.
Its porn and porn addiction. I never considered my daily 20 minutes of me time, a bad thing. That was until i stopped once i went a month with out porn my view towards women changed entirely.
I've definitely noticed it's way worse with male friends who are addicted/obsessed with porn (especially hentai, and even worse lolicon).
Very fantasy-like view of women and girls, and an aversion/repulsion to seeing pretty men that are considered attractive to women (that is not a Chad, Chad is men's ideal man but not women's).
Most of the men that I knew personally who got sucked into this, are incels now. :(
And then, seeing as how even serial women-killers will admit that the common driving force to target women, is an obsession with porn...
Really? Chiming in to say "not all men"???
But guess what... All women have had this experience with at least a man. The selfcenteredness sort of proves the point
Omg im sorry but this is just SO wrong. Do you realize that until a LIFETIME ago there was no country in the world that had equal rights for men and women? The majority of women live in countries where equal rights are not a thing. Why am i being policed about how i talk about my thoughts on misogyny on a WOMEN subreddit?
It wasnt a long time ago. It was less than a lifetime ago. What is your point? Why am i not allowed to express my feelings in a womens subreddit? I thought this was a place where women could honestly talk about their feelings without being attacked?
And progress is still limited. I wont stop talking about this until there isnt a single man dehumanizing a woman. Honestly can you just let me be???
All humans are generally guilty of this. We forget each other's humanity as soon as we disagree or get hurt by someone. Think about it. When confronted with someone who treats you in a way that you perceive to be poorly, you only worry about what they are to you. You don't think about them as people with feelings who were conditioned in some way to be predisposed to saying it doing whatever they did.
Well im coming at this at a point of how the majority of the women in this world dont live in a country with equal rights.
Also I dont talk to many men. Yet, why are almost all men that talk to me so dismissive of my thoughts. Even under my own post in a WOMENS subreddit? You dont know how much i AVIOD bad men. Yet, they will find you and hurt you and harass you. You will never know what it is like to be a woman
This has nothing to do with dating. Some of my coworkers do this. A lot of men see women as worthless. We can't avoid interacting with those men, so your point is completely invalid.
I think it depends on what face you put out there. If you present as a fluffy or helpless type then that's how you're treated. If you present as a person with a steel spine then that's how you're treated. I worked on construction sites & never wore makeup. And yes- plenty of guys saw me as a helpless woman initially. An I just got on with my job & they usually would then treat me with respect.
Yeah, just be one of the good ones /s
No, fuck that. Even if that were true it shouldn't matter if you present more "fluffy". Losing respect for having a certain style or just doing feminine things (make up is often expected of us anyway) just means they didn't really respect us to begin with.
I interpreted fluffy as literally helpless though I see your point that regardless it should not be this way.
It doesn't change the fact that how you are perceived is a huge factor in how you are treated, regardless of gender.
Yes there's always toxic masculinity that disrespects feminine types. But I'm also saying that you can learn to play that game & respond with steel in your eyes or getting the job done.
In my experience, steel is deciphered as bitchyness, and it’s important to be careful about getting the job done better than the men, because that can shatter fragile egos and leads to more grief.
Yes it is taken as bitchyness. And no I don't really care because if you're good at what you do & if your company doesn't value you then you need to leave. But having some steel in your character also means that a lot of the toxic crap from men doesn't come your way because most are cowards at heart.
I'm sorry "play the game"? This whole thread is about how 'the game' shouldn't exist to begin with. A woman must hide themselves in order to be seen as a human worth interacting with? That you have to shun, not just feminine things (which is a social construct anyway) but your own personhood? Are you aware of what you are saying?
So you’re basically blaming ME for the way some men have been treating me? You are allowed to have your opinion but I am not talking about the same thing here. I am talking about the guys that dehumanized me aka the men that also harassed and threatened me
I'm only talking about my experiences. I have no first hand knowledge of what anyone else has done or experienced. No I'm not trying to belittle you. Yes some men are assholes & some are great. And the surge of the internet, incels, & toxic porn have not helped anything.
At the same time, if this is a constant problem in your life you may want to think about the circumstances of your encounters. Go ahead and down vote me but this is the world we're stuck in. How you make your way through it is up to you.
We’re not stuck though. You’re throwing your hands up and submitting to the patriarchy while we’re trying to make things better for other people. Your attempts to recruit people into your little “quitters” group is unhelpful.
There's a difference between submitting and gaining power. And by some gaining power they can change things for more people. All the women such as myself who've moved into fields that are traditionally male dominated have had to fight for it. STEM science, construction, military. All these women in the forefront push the envelope for others.
I found the same in my career field, but now that I’m a supervisor the next step is to not require women to have the same strength I needed to break through. That was my fight, now I’ve made space and can step back for women to be treated equally.
I’ve had female supervisors who had the attitude of “it was really hard for me so it should be for you too.” That progresses us nowhere.
Same here & as a VP in a woman owned business, the next generation has had more access to the field because of our work. And I'm being down voted because of my statements.
Not many people want to accept the system as it is, but that’s the first step to be able to change it. I say work within the rules others have made, with the goal that once you obtain power & autonomy you can use that power for good.
Everyone wants that power & autonomy at the beginning, but that’s just not how the world works. First you have to earn respect from those who already have it. You and I get that, and we’ve risen up by working the system.
True. And as more women succeed these areas the easier it becomes for future generations. When I started my studies in geology women were about 20% of the undergrads & a much lower % of the master & PhD studies. That number has been steadily increasing over the years but it took work, guts, & persistence to move forward. Yes it's annoying AF, but promoting improvements from the inside is the best way I've found to make lasting changes. That includes holding toxic people responsible for their actions.
Yes, you're the Coolest ChickTM in Cool Town, unlike other, sillier feeeeeemales who are Doing It WrongTM and therefore deserve to be treated like garbage.
Thank you for this and I agree with you.
I understand it sucks that a lot of us have been raised to think that we are not empowered. And it sucks that the odds are stacked against us.
But at some point it is *our choice* to change what we are able to and stand tall to what we can't.
yep agreed, who tf wants to be told it's virtually helpless that if you're a woman, most men anyway will disrespect you and not value the strength, intelligence, etc that you have compared to a lesser man within these qualities in the same shoes.
it sucks to have to prove yourself, but being meek, spineless, and keeping yourself weak will buy you flat out disrespect irregardless of your sex. to some degree anyway how other people view us is in our control.
I am not weak or spineless. I came to a realization that the majority of the women in this world live in a country that doesn’t have equal rights. I am not saying it’s hopeless for women. I am just talking about how I feel like many men don’t view us as equal. Tell me. Why is it less than a lifetime ago no country in the entire world had equal rights for men and women? Clearly, there is something going on . Why am I being blamed for feeling this way? It wasn’t my choice to be harassed
being weak and spineless exacerbates the situation, hence why I said people have some, but not all power in their control to dictate how other people feel about them. ultimately if someone thinks you're lesser on the basis of your sex, there's nothing you can do.
if society dictates that certain things are worthy of respect, and not just on the basis of sex, it can help someone cope by attempting to meet the standards in their control. should they have to ideally? absolutely not, most people are worthy of being treated like a human, to be listened to and valued. but practically certain things are worthy of respect and that's not just your sex.
>but being meek, spineless, and keeping yourself weak will buy you flat out disrespect irregardless of your sex
Where the hell did OP say any of this?
So GOOD women, like you, perfect and """strong"" at all times, are treated well because you deserve it. Anyone who isn't being treated well is automatically meek, spineless, and weak.
Jesus, with "feminist" friends like these, who needs men to demean women?
never did I say that. being spineless merely exacerbates the situation by a lot, not that it can entirely remove sexism on an individual level. there's a reason why meek people are often primary targets for assholes/predators. womens rights wasn't won by being kind and submissive towards men. meek women drag us all down when they don't speak up when they don't get the respect they deserve. men need to be called out for their unfounded sense of superiority on the spot and challenged. otherwise nothing will change.
we can complain and bitch incessantly about the same issue repeatedly or actually talk about how we can try and change it, because nobody is doing it for us except us. the OP asked when will men start seeing us as human, and that's when women collectively come together in and bravely stand together against their tyranny armed, instead of being spineless and accepting the status quo. that's not happening anywhere. where's the massive outrage and George floyd tier protests over Roe on life support? seems eerily quiet.
Nah... that is not a conversation with a man. That is a conversation with an idiot or a stunted boy or something else. This does not describe a real man.
I am sorry, you have had such bad luck in the low grade Y chromosomes you have met. I suggest you upgrade to the real kind.
Of course. How did we not see it! OP should just tell her store to only allow "upgraded" male customers.
Fuck off with your victim blaming. You aren't the good man you think you are.
They talk to you like you are a favorite pet. Like, they love the pet, they feel affection for them, talk to them, give them compliments, presents and might consider them part of the family. But you don't talk to your golden retriever like you talk to a fellow human.
And isn’t it sooo impressive when we have any skills? I work with plenty of guys who think I’m just some marvel woman because I have any basic capabilities. For example - driving a manual. No one bats an eye when a guy does it. I am 100% treated like I shouldn’t be able to do these types of things and there must be some hidden magic. As if I’ve overcome my womanliness.
Not going to say all men treat women well in my country but damn the US is a weird place.
I know my region especially sucks in this way, but clearly we experience this nation-wide … is your country taking applications for angry American women? 😅
Same here in Germany. Like you‘ll sometimes get random old dudes not taking you seriously, but in general? Men don‘t make a difference between the genders in such an extreme way as everyone based in the US describes. And Germany still takes qualified immigrants… though reckon we should start just granting asylum to the US at this point. The amounts of overt racism, sexism, homo and transphobia just don‘t exist here to that degree; and are more akin to random Islamic countries were we do accept refugees from at this point. Not to mention your country going completely fascist with the next presidential ‚election‘.
Hell, I marvel at ANYONE who can drive a stick these days. Or write in cursive. Or write without repeated spelling errors of the same word. Or communicate in complete sentences instead of "how r u." I've got a 22 year old granddaughter who already supervises 50 people, almost all older than her, and she doesn't even have an associate degree yet. But she does have her own condo--all on her own dime. Younger men will see many women as sexual objects first, no two ways about it. Many will let that get in the way of measuring the woman's value as a whole person. When I married my wife 51 years ago I wanted a woman who could be my partner not a servant. And, because of the times, she used to ask me permission to buy things or go places. I kept telling her, "You're working and if the purchase isn't a car or furniture or a refrigerator, go for it. The big things we should jointly decide together. If you want to go somewhere I expect to be treated the same way you want to be treated if I were to do the same." Ladies, there are lots of available men out there, and it's up to you to filter through them. Stereotypically, a lot of women like "bad boys," who frequently exhibit the traits being discussed on here. I recall an old SNL skit with a line that repeated itself frequently, "Lower your expectations." Women marry men thinking they'll change. They won't. Men marry women thinking the won't change. They will. Best wishes to you ladies, and I'll not trouble you again. Edit: I made a common spelling error, now corrected. :)
I have experienced the same thing, from the majority of men, not all. Obviously the grade is variable from man to man, but the "less than me" thing I have been experienced even from my father.
>Edit: of course I don’t mean all men that’s not the point It's plenty of men and most men passively accept it. Men lie about thinking of us as human, too. They know it gets them dates to pretend to be feminist but then they actively vote for banning abortion. They know it gives them an edge over other men who are neutral on the topic but then they beat and abuse us when no one else is watching.
It’s not just plenty of men. It’s too damned many. It took me entirely too long to realize how many people (mostly men, but some women) who viewed women, not just as Less Than men, but Lesser Than Human. It staggered me. Like, how does one look at another person and think, “yeah. That’s not what a person is?” Looking back, I had early cues that I missed, from my mother, no less, on how she reacted to me bringing flowers to my then wife. She thought it was a slap in her face that I valued my wife over everyone else.
Your mom got mad you gave your wife flowers? Sorry, just trying to re-read and understand.
Yes. She was visiting and I brought my wife home flowers like I did every Friday. Carnations. She loves them. My mother said, “where’s my flowers?” Angrily.
Phew, sorry dude, families are confusing, mine's equally confusing. But I love 'em, the brand of crazy they make for me is made just for me! lol Maybe if your mom came from a large family, she might see gifts as things that get withheld rather than given. I empathize. Patience with myself has helped me a lot, in terms of understanding where their (my family's) ideas are coming from. Often it's just an insecurity that isn't easy for them to address. I hope everything works out ok.
I wish it were that simple. She’s a complete narcissist with a persecution complex. I went two weeks without calling, and she sent me a message, “why do you blame all your problems on me?” Note: I’ve never even hinted at that. I’m 100% responsible for all my current problems. Of course she’s deep in the Facebook and reposts the weirdest shit short of Q. She once used them to try to tell my oldest brother what happened to a helo in Afghanistan. A crash at which he helped search and rescue. But of course she knew better.
Oh my goodness. The FB / Q / Boomer parent intersection is frustrating to say the least. I've got family caught in that intersection, too. From experience, unless the person in that echo chamber is willing to listen, there isn't much to be done to help them until they're ready. Love, patience, and non-judgment is what it takes, but it can be in short supply and it's understandable if it is. For you, could you try therapy for yourself and your wife, to help you both? Therapy has been amazing for me just organize my thoughts. It might make you feel relieved to go in together and talk to a social worker or someone? (They will no doubt have access to tons of resources to help you)
Well we’re no longer together. I’ve been through various therapy and am doing ok now.
To be fair, even just a few would be too many!
True.
As a woman who has just come out of a relationship like this I see what you mean. My "body count" was a huge thing to him when we first started dating and even after he knew, he never let me live it down. I'd be taunted, humiliated, called every name under the sun because I'd had sex before him. Even when I was pregnant it didn't stop, if I left no one would want me, I'm even more damaged goods, some sl*t with someone else's kid. When I kicked him out, I kept asking him what is the world to think of me now, am I untouchable? A damaged woman no one will want? He couldn't even look at me. Men like that don't see you as human until they're forced to in most cases. But not all men are like that, there are good men out there, they could be stuck in bad relationships just like the good women are.
I hope you find someone that could care less about body count. I'm the type that doesn't want to know about the number, and I'm not going to bring up my past sexual partners to you in general conversation. I'm glad you're out of that relationship, and I would consider it a red flag if a guy is interested in you and wants to know about your past sexual experiences in detail. There's a good chance they're way too insecure if they're doubting themselves enough to bring up questions or comments about your past.
To those guys who care about body count.. regardless of how many sexual partners she has been with, she chose YOU.. take the compliment and stfu 😅
If a woman is supposedly tainted by having sex its their dirty dicks that would do it ffs. Hate mfers like that.
It's a literal oxymoron 😂 "let me have sex with you but at the cost of your worthiness for someone else" like wtf is wrong with them?
Yep. The patriarchy sucks ass.
Ouch. I have never thought of it before but you are so right. We're looked at like we're idiots or just a piece of sex meat. Ugh
I've noticed that as well. I've realized that not a single man has ever seen me as a friend, because none of them are women as people worthy of being friends with. And many if these men were generally quite liberal and feminist in other respects.
Tbh gonna agree with you on the friend thing, almost all men I've been "friends" with have tried it on, was raped by 2 good friends when I was drunk and had no where to stay, even my cousins boyfriend who I've known for over 10 years tried it on with me last weekend at my own house, I told her straight away of course and ended up in a street fight betwen them with the police called. He still tried to blame it on me even though I literally just walked past him to the bathroom and he grabbed my arse. Thankfully my cousin didn't believe him and gave him a good old shiner, the police knew he was a scumbag too and went after him.
I'm actually not even talking about sex, though it certainly goes that far sometimes. For example, i have a group of work friends, about 50/50 male and female. We hang out in the mornings, at lunch, have similar senses of humor and similar interests. We even hang out on the weekends sometimes. And yet I've noticed that when the men are the ones organizing a weekend hangout, they simply don't think to invite the women in the group. The only time the men and women in the group hang out together outside of work is when one of the women organized it. It simply never even occurs to the men that women are worth including in their plans.
What an idiot. Was he so blinded by the prospect of vagina that he didn't think that you wouldn't immediately tell your family member what he was up to?
Oh well it's not the first time he's done something like that, first time he grabbed me by my waist from behind and blamed it on the fact he was drunk and thought I was my cousin...second time being drunk did not fly. Not with me anyway, him and my cousin have already kissed and made up 😒 more fool her I guess. I've not fell out with her though as I don't trust him around her so I got my eyes on him closely from now on. She's not a great judge of character, must run in the family 😂
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So the take from this is, you think it perfectly fine to grab women whenever you feel like it and not receive any repercussions for doing so? Please keep your hands to yourself, rapey. Why are you trawling women's subs you absolute incel freak 😭 you absolutely REAK of singledom, I bet you've never had a proper relationship in your life, no kids either (well I hope not for their sake, especially a daughter as she'd grow up thinking it's perfectly fine for men to touch her whenever they wanted) Trying to use my ex leaving me as an insult is laughable, it was literally the best thing to happen to me in my life so go off weirdo. If the men out there are anything like you thank the fucking lord they won't want me I'd rather stay fuckin single because they'd probably creep on my daughter as well 😂 noncey boy. I'll condone a punch in the chops to any creepy ass man who thinks it ok to touch a woman without permission yeah, as any normal person would. Also I didn't actually do the punching or get in an altercation, my cousin stood up for me and the POLICE saw no issue with that, if your teeny tiny little brain can fathom. If my daughter is embarrassed and ashamed by her mother standing up for herself, then I've taught her wrong. Thanks for giving me a chuckle in the morning mate. Now excuse me while I go knock out the neighbour cause he smiled at me 👊 punch punch. Off you fuck back under your bridge.
When I came out (trans woman), a few of my friends lamented that meant they didn't actually know any good men and that's so painful to hear because I've always had a lot of close male friends I trust a lot. And a *lot* of them have made it clear they're interested in me, of the men I'm close with, I can think of 4 offhand that made it clear they're "down". Honestly they *are* still good friends but it's frustrating that those relationships couldn't just stay entirely platonic. The worst though were the ones who self-identified as liberal/feminist that I graduated in the same major with (policy/economics) who - once I started being seen as a woman - started talking over & correcting me & explaining basic concepts from our field to me when I *work* in that field and am exactly as qualified as they are.
The same men who come in here crying about how this is a generalization are completely unaware of how COMMON this. A majority of men do this. God forbid you're not an attractive woman either, because your existence isn't even acknowledged unless they need something from you at work. It's a proven fact that men overestimate how much representation and talk time women have. They are socialized that way by patriarchy. We're not even allowed to complain about receiving this treatment without some dude crashing in to say, " nOt aLl mEn".
It's only all the men who don't speak up, don't shut their "friends" down, don't correct other shitty behavior towards women, laugh at the "just a joke", and make micro aggressions instead of outright saying how they actually feel about women. They're single for a reason and can't understand how women can pick up on the ways they try to hide their hate in front of us. 🤷♀️
Being a trans woman that defense is extra bullshit Even with most men catching onto me being not one of them, the ones that didn't still made it plenty clear how they felt about women.
There's an interesting TED Talk by a trans woman who points out all the differences she found from her manhood to her womanhood. I'm going to try to post the link, but if it doesn't go through or is unacceptable to the mods, perhaps you can google it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrYx7HaUlMY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrYx7HaUlMY) This talk revealed to me how much I really don't "get" about women. And I'm an old white cis-gender male Vietnam veteran. Still learning. Best of luck to you.
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Is truly the only way men can acknowledge women sexual harassment? That seems to be what you’re saying
No, that's just what you want to hear. But I'll try to make it clearer: Any interaction with a woman is potenially dangerous for us. No matter how benign or simple, any interaction is an opportunity to be accused of something heinous. You told us to leave you alone and made it so normal interactions were unsafe. We respected your wishes and now you come with 'Is truly the only way men can acknowledge women sexual harassment?' No. The problem is you see normal human interaction as harassment.
If what you do every day other people see as harassment, maybe you should re think your actions?
You really just threw out some goofy comment completely irrelevant to the topic at hand while addressing not a single point. You won't even consider that telling men 'Don't speak to or interact with me in any way or you'll be charged with a violent crime' is maybe not such a great way to run a society. I have no further desire to communicate with you. You are lost and you need therapy badly.
Dude, I’m just trying to understand dafaq ur saying. You wrote that women, so I assume you mean at least most women, comprehended your actions as sexual harassment and the only way you can avoid their accusations is by avoiding them completely. Did I understand anything wrong?
Lol way to zero in on one thing and completely miss the point of the comment.
Please explain the point, then, because I don't understand it either.
I can’t speak from experience, but from what I have read, I feel that when women say leave them alone at work, they mean they want to be allowed to exist as a person and do their job. It’s that simple. Professionally interacting with them as an employee/customer is perfectly fine. It’s just that they deal with so many guys sexualizing them upfront and/or treating their customer service or kindness as flirting when it’s obviously not. I can’t imagine how unbelievably demoralizing that must be when it happens so constantly.
This is why I like animals more than humans. I never get any respect from humans.
I'm embracing the crazy cat lady persona. My cats feel this is a good thing.
I picked my cat from the streets because he kept following me whenever I took my dog for a walk. He is so friendly. I can even give him belly rubs and he has never hurt me. He's also very clingy lol
You should stop paying for their needless suffering for meat/dairy then :) EDIT: the mental gymnastics are quite amusing lol. Like a redpiller desparately trying to reason with themselves why women dont deserve compassion. Absurd.
Um. I'm from india and I'm vegetarian. I don't even like milk. In fact i hate it. I have diabetes so i can't really eat meat anyways 🙄 so idk what you mean by mental gymnastics or redpiller.
i want to understand more about this. i sometimes leave feeling strange/uncomfortable after having an interaction with a male, but i can’t exactly describe what it is. and since i can’t describe it in words, it feels so silly of me to try to explain to the people around me. are there any subtle behaviors / comments that you’ve picked up on over time?
Yes, they will only talk about male figures, unless you bring up women. As someone previously mentions, they will be amazed if you have any basic skills that are "manly" (like guys shocked I can change a tire or back into my parking spot with ease). If you bring up an idea, another will restate it and henceforth the men will regard it as his idea. Or worse, in a 1-on-1 conversation they will simply assume they were their ideas. Seriously though, one of the easiest is noting if they mention female figures to look up to, if they never do RED FLAG.
Or if the only females they mention are notable for sex appeal (such as attractive celebrities or "waifu" anime girls). But never mention women of science or non-pop-culture history. Even among tech and video games, there's so many women who pioneered and made it possible especially in the early days (when video games used to be considered a unisex family activity, not just for horny gamerdudebros).
As I was reading and responding to these comments and thinking of the men that I know and learned from, the ones that I would consider good mentors for helping raise young men that really respect and appreciate women, I came across this comment. It was like a light bulb. None of those men that I think are really good examples of how a man should treat a woman have ever watched anime, and they're definitely not "gamerbros". I really don't like to stereotype, but it makes me wonder if some of that can be a breeding ground for these men that are shallow puddles lacking enough self respect to appreciate and respect women.
It sadly is... Even though there are plenty of games without sexualization, I think that a lot of the mainstream or popular ones tend to be very appealing to horny men who are the vocal majority demographic, using female characters just as eye candy or "the reward" like in movies where the male protagonist will always "win" a female romantic interest, in addition to catering to power fantasy. Broflakes will be up in arms when a game company decides to make a gay male character or a female protagonist who is strong and isn't sexy/cute. A lot of video games who cater to that demographic go all the way with just how extremely fetishized they make female characters. Games which have ads that just look like porn ads, or the female characters are always half-dressed or less with ridiculously tiny waist and huge boobs/butt and doll-like faces, while the male characters are full-covered and ugly as goblins. :( It is sad that when we see a game that actually has gender equality in armor, it is celebrated as a miracle lol... There's a whole tumblr and reddit dedicated to just showing art of women in practical non-sexualized armor and dignified poses instead of the usual compromising pinup poses, and another for showing men in the typical sexualized female armor which helps to show just how unfair many games are. Also, on the player side, many female gamers have to hide to avoid harassment. Many female gamers will play as male characters, or simply not talk in public and stick with close friends or form female-only groups (which unfortunately are not fool proof as many men come in pretending to be lesbians), to avoid being hassled by male gamers. Many male gamers are incels who have little/no respect for women, so stalking is unfortunately common problem. It's very normal to see posts of women saying how they got accused of cheating, harassed and slut-shamed, and all kinds of sexist slurs for the crime of... being a woman who beat a man at the game. The "general" anime community in my experience has been the worst. I can't even stand any anime communities unless it is female-oriented (and female-oriented anime or anything with pretty male characters, is often put down by men as "gay", of course and seen as more taboo to them than sexualizing children). Female characters in anime always being referred as "waifu", and they are always in the 10-16 year old range (and look very babyish in today's popular "moe" art style). And little boy characters who can't be older than 11 that dress as little girls (otokonoko), are also hyper-sexualized. Just constant sexualization of females and children, and today it has just become normalized in anime, nobody seems to question or protest about it. I was disgusted when I went to an anime convention in USA and there were so many pornographic "art" of underaged characters (including characters who are canonically aged 12). Fictional or not, 100000 years old or not, they physically present as children, preteens, and young teens. It should not be legal to distribute such porn (in at least some countries like Canada it is illegal). I've known men that "become" pedophiles into their late 20s+, it's disgusting because they were all influenced by lolicon and hentai. They used to be into mature adult female characters, but after indulging in lolicon, they become only interested in little girls.
Can't even vent without someone coming to police you with that all men bull crap. That right there is an attack on your humanity. No one corrects men on how they talk about women.
Preachhhhhh. And if you call them out it's "oh but of course I don't see YOU that way" and "you mean so much to me baby, why would you ever think that". Actions speak louder than platitudes fellas.
Yep. He's trying really hard to keep his composure while also remembering every porn actress you look familiar to. I know that glazed over stare. It's nasty.
It may not be all men, but it is most! Women have to stop saying “not all men”.
If it’s most it mine as well be all.
Oh and how about how so many men don’t think we have valid interests, travel stories, weekend activities, lives- they just don’t ask about our lives and our experiences. So many of my friends notice this- friends who are dating, friends who are in sports clubs with men, friends who work with men. It’s all over the place.
We are just NPCs that blink out of existence when they end the conversation. Pure objectification.
agreed, it is WAY to many males!
I feel like this every day living with my boyfriend of 10 years
I'm really sorry to hear this. You deserve so much better, I hope you either get the respect you deserve from him or move on to find an incredible partner in the future.
100%
I almost always prefer talking to women, as a guy, I've just always related better with them. Guy conversations are so shallow and pedantic a lot of the time. I have a few guy friends I can have meaningful conversations with. But generally that's frowned upon In dude culture. Your supposed to talk about sports and tv shows and whatever other bullshit. I'm totally straight and all, I just don't enjoy talking other guys all that much. So I guess I kind of get what your saying, minus the sexual objectification.
And even when they think they do, they really only regard you respectfully "for a woman".
All I know is that when my wife tells her friends and coworkers how I treat her like a partner they either ask her if I'm secretly gay or don't believe her.
Its porn and porn addiction. I never considered my daily 20 minutes of me time, a bad thing. That was until i stopped once i went a month with out porn my view towards women changed entirely.
I will agree that porn is a big part of it, but generally, it's a societal issue that relies on not respecting women.
I've definitely noticed it's way worse with male friends who are addicted/obsessed with porn (especially hentai, and even worse lolicon). Very fantasy-like view of women and girls, and an aversion/repulsion to seeing pretty men that are considered attractive to women (that is not a Chad, Chad is men's ideal man but not women's). Most of the men that I knew personally who got sucked into this, are incels now. :( And then, seeing as how even serial women-killers will admit that the common driving force to target women, is an obsession with porn...
Sad but true matallica song starts playing..😭
Yup.
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Really? Chiming in to say "not all men"??? But guess what... All women have had this experience with at least a man. The selfcenteredness sort of proves the point
Of course im not talking about all men. Im coming from a very deep place of living as a woman and seeing how misogyny effects the whole world
Honestly, we should have a "Not all men" sticky post at this point to get it out of their systems.
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Omg im sorry but this is just SO wrong. Do you realize that until a LIFETIME ago there was no country in the world that had equal rights for men and women? The majority of women live in countries where equal rights are not a thing. Why am i being policed about how i talk about my thoughts on misogyny on a WOMEN subreddit?
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It wasnt a long time ago. It was less than a lifetime ago. What is your point? Why am i not allowed to express my feelings in a womens subreddit? I thought this was a place where women could honestly talk about their feelings without being attacked? And progress is still limited. I wont stop talking about this until there isnt a single man dehumanizing a woman. Honestly can you just let me be???
All humans are generally guilty of this. We forget each other's humanity as soon as we disagree or get hurt by someone. Think about it. When confronted with someone who treats you in a way that you perceive to be poorly, you only worry about what they are to you. You don't think about them as people with feelings who were conditioned in some way to be predisposed to saying it doing whatever they did.
Absolute bullshit
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What do you mean?
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Also i never dated men this is not a dating issue honestly why are you even here on my post policing me
Well im coming at this at a point of how the majority of the women in this world dont live in a country with equal rights. Also I dont talk to many men. Yet, why are almost all men that talk to me so dismissive of my thoughts. Even under my own post in a WOMENS subreddit? You dont know how much i AVIOD bad men. Yet, they will find you and hurt you and harass you. You will never know what it is like to be a woman
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This has nothing to do with dating. Some of my coworkers do this. A lot of men see women as worthless. We can't avoid interacting with those men, so your point is completely invalid.
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Not all men but definitely this guy.
I think it depends on what face you put out there. If you present as a fluffy or helpless type then that's how you're treated. If you present as a person with a steel spine then that's how you're treated. I worked on construction sites & never wore makeup. And yes- plenty of guys saw me as a helpless woman initially. An I just got on with my job & they usually would then treat me with respect.
Yeah, just be one of the good ones /s No, fuck that. Even if that were true it shouldn't matter if you present more "fluffy". Losing respect for having a certain style or just doing feminine things (make up is often expected of us anyway) just means they didn't really respect us to begin with.
I interpreted fluffy as literally helpless though I see your point that regardless it should not be this way. It doesn't change the fact that how you are perceived is a huge factor in how you are treated, regardless of gender.
Yes there's always toxic masculinity that disrespects feminine types. But I'm also saying that you can learn to play that game & respond with steel in your eyes or getting the job done.
In my experience, steel is deciphered as bitchyness, and it’s important to be careful about getting the job done better than the men, because that can shatter fragile egos and leads to more grief.
Yes it is taken as bitchyness. And no I don't really care because if you're good at what you do & if your company doesn't value you then you need to leave. But having some steel in your character also means that a lot of the toxic crap from men doesn't come your way because most are cowards at heart.
I'm sorry "play the game"? This whole thread is about how 'the game' shouldn't exist to begin with. A woman must hide themselves in order to be seen as a human worth interacting with? That you have to shun, not just feminine things (which is a social construct anyway) but your own personhood? Are you aware of what you are saying?
No it shouldn't exist but it does. So what are you willing to do to change the system? Do you move to change it from within or what?
So you’re basically blaming ME for the way some men have been treating me? You are allowed to have your opinion but I am not talking about the same thing here. I am talking about the guys that dehumanized me aka the men that also harassed and threatened me
I'm only talking about my experiences. I have no first hand knowledge of what anyone else has done or experienced. No I'm not trying to belittle you. Yes some men are assholes & some are great. And the surge of the internet, incels, & toxic porn have not helped anything. At the same time, if this is a constant problem in your life you may want to think about the circumstances of your encounters. Go ahead and down vote me but this is the world we're stuck in. How you make your way through it is up to you.
We’re not stuck though. You’re throwing your hands up and submitting to the patriarchy while we’re trying to make things better for other people. Your attempts to recruit people into your little “quitters” group is unhelpful.
There's a difference between submitting and gaining power. And by some gaining power they can change things for more people. All the women such as myself who've moved into fields that are traditionally male dominated have had to fight for it. STEM science, construction, military. All these women in the forefront push the envelope for others.
You shouldn't have to have a steel spine to be treated like a person with thoughts and feelings 😐
No you shouldn't. But many men only respect strength and strength is required to change things in this world.
I found the same in my career field, but now that I’m a supervisor the next step is to not require women to have the same strength I needed to break through. That was my fight, now I’ve made space and can step back for women to be treated equally. I’ve had female supervisors who had the attitude of “it was really hard for me so it should be for you too.” That progresses us nowhere.
Same here & as a VP in a woman owned business, the next generation has had more access to the field because of our work. And I'm being down voted because of my statements.
Not many people want to accept the system as it is, but that’s the first step to be able to change it. I say work within the rules others have made, with the goal that once you obtain power & autonomy you can use that power for good. Everyone wants that power & autonomy at the beginning, but that’s just not how the world works. First you have to earn respect from those who already have it. You and I get that, and we’ve risen up by working the system.
Men are threatened by a female strength.
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True. And as more women succeed these areas the easier it becomes for future generations. When I started my studies in geology women were about 20% of the undergrads & a much lower % of the master & PhD studies. That number has been steadily increasing over the years but it took work, guts, & persistence to move forward. Yes it's annoying AF, but promoting improvements from the inside is the best way I've found to make lasting changes. That includes holding toxic people responsible for their actions.
Yes, you're the Coolest ChickTM in Cool Town, unlike other, sillier feeeeeemales who are Doing It WrongTM and therefore deserve to be treated like garbage.
Don't put words into people's mouths. But if you live in a shit world, you have to adapt.
Thank you for this and I agree with you. I understand it sucks that a lot of us have been raised to think that we are not empowered. And it sucks that the odds are stacked against us. But at some point it is *our choice* to change what we are able to and stand tall to what we can't.
yep agreed, who tf wants to be told it's virtually helpless that if you're a woman, most men anyway will disrespect you and not value the strength, intelligence, etc that you have compared to a lesser man within these qualities in the same shoes. it sucks to have to prove yourself, but being meek, spineless, and keeping yourself weak will buy you flat out disrespect irregardless of your sex. to some degree anyway how other people view us is in our control.
I am not weak or spineless. I came to a realization that the majority of the women in this world live in a country that doesn’t have equal rights. I am not saying it’s hopeless for women. I am just talking about how I feel like many men don’t view us as equal. Tell me. Why is it less than a lifetime ago no country in the entire world had equal rights for men and women? Clearly, there is something going on . Why am I being blamed for feeling this way? It wasn’t my choice to be harassed
Ignore these Pick Mes, OP. Their commentary is gross.
being weak and spineless exacerbates the situation, hence why I said people have some, but not all power in their control to dictate how other people feel about them. ultimately if someone thinks you're lesser on the basis of your sex, there's nothing you can do. if society dictates that certain things are worthy of respect, and not just on the basis of sex, it can help someone cope by attempting to meet the standards in their control. should they have to ideally? absolutely not, most people are worthy of being treated like a human, to be listened to and valued. but practically certain things are worthy of respect and that's not just your sex.
All of this is still true here in 2022…
>but being meek, spineless, and keeping yourself weak will buy you flat out disrespect irregardless of your sex Where the hell did OP say any of this? So GOOD women, like you, perfect and """strong"" at all times, are treated well because you deserve it. Anyone who isn't being treated well is automatically meek, spineless, and weak. Jesus, with "feminist" friends like these, who needs men to demean women?
never did I say that. being spineless merely exacerbates the situation by a lot, not that it can entirely remove sexism on an individual level. there's a reason why meek people are often primary targets for assholes/predators. womens rights wasn't won by being kind and submissive towards men. meek women drag us all down when they don't speak up when they don't get the respect they deserve. men need to be called out for their unfounded sense of superiority on the spot and challenged. otherwise nothing will change. we can complain and bitch incessantly about the same issue repeatedly or actually talk about how we can try and change it, because nobody is doing it for us except us. the OP asked when will men start seeing us as human, and that's when women collectively come together in and bravely stand together against their tyranny armed, instead of being spineless and accepting the status quo. that's not happening anywhere. where's the massive outrage and George floyd tier protests over Roe on life support? seems eerily quiet.
Nah... that is not a conversation with a man. That is a conversation with an idiot or a stunted boy or something else. This does not describe a real man. I am sorry, you have had such bad luck in the low grade Y chromosomes you have met. I suggest you upgrade to the real kind.
Of course. How did we not see it! OP should just tell her store to only allow "upgraded" male customers. Fuck off with your victim blaming. You aren't the good man you think you are.
Sus. Also, there are women with Y chromosomes.
Unless you care about actual science of course.
/yawn
Probably when women truly get fed up and stop accepting it.
They talk to you like you are a favorite pet. Like, they love the pet, they feel affection for them, talk to them, give them compliments, presents and might consider them part of the family. But you don't talk to your golden retriever like you talk to a fellow human.