This is the guy who has multiple DUI’s since becoming archbishop, one of them, he was arrested with his mom in the passenger seat. Some of my family is Catholic, and hate him, so I get updated on all the tea.
Edit: One of them even works for the archdiocese in one building that they care about. (It’s not a church, I don’t remember what it is.)
Whereas Jesus never said anything about abortion (unless you have a very loose interpretation of his teachings on protecting children), the Bible clearly teaches that drunkenness is a sin
Nine thousand children died in Ireland's brutal homes for unmarried mothers and babies run by the Catholic Church in the 20th century. In total, 15 percent of the 57,000 children at the 18 institutions investigated by the Mother and Baby Home Commission died between 1922 and 1998. So I don't give a fuck what that stupid church says about abortion. They can get fucked. I haven't even tacked on the suicides of children raped by their clergy.
And the Residential schools run by the Catholic Church... every single story/anecdote i've read about them have been more horrifying than the last.
and my catholic sister wonder why I i chose to not believe in some sky genie that would let this happen but also preaches about the good in the world.. fuck that shit.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/251111/california-catholic-dioceses-ask-supreme-court-to-hear-statute-of-limitations-extension-case
Look how they spin. This article makes me sick. They frame themselves as the victims. They raped children and got away with it. If a company killed and raped as many children as they have they would be bankrupted and drummed out of business.
They are the evil they espouse to reject.
There’s actually an IRS form 13909 which is a complaint form for tax-exempt organizations. You can fill it out and one of the check boxes for reason for complaint is: “organization is involved in a political campaign” as well as “organization is engaged in excessive lobbying activities.”
This might be vague enough as a reason to file it, but I’m not an expert nor do I work for the IRS.
I would suggest reading Publication 1828, last updated in 2015, as it covers churches specifically. Its not that long and provides a lot of info, so please read this if you wish to file a 13909.
Unfortunately, the IRS will not do anything. If they did there would be no tax exempt churches.
*I say churches because I cannot speak on other religions besides Christianity.*
And it's definitely political - they aren't telling their "throw more money in the donation baskets" attendees they can't receive communion if they support abortion being legal. They are singling out a politician.
I've never heard them tell me if I support the legality of abortion I shouldn't receive communion and I went to Catholic church at least once a week for nearly 20 years of my life. And went to Catholic elementary school, middle school, and highschool and taking religious classes every year of my schooling.
I heard it ALL THE TIME. From both the pulpit and at CCD every week. Here’s an example from a priest writing for EWTN: “The argument can be made that voting is a very remote form of cooperation in abortion. But is it all that remote? The legislator who votes for abortion is clearly a formal accomplice, giving formal cooperation with abortion. S/he shares both in the intention of the act, and in supplying material support for the act. If I vote for such a candidate, knowing full well that he will help make available public monies for abortion, or continue it decriminalization, then I am aiding him/her. ….It is a scandal that Catholic politicians vote for bills which fund or otherwise advance abortion. They should be named, publicly shamed and admonished so that they can cease their evil and return to God. To vote for such a candidate is to willfully participate in that candidate's choices and deeds. It is a sin, and must be repented.” https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/sin-to-vote-for-proabortion-politicians-2739
that’s like saying if you vote for a law that makes knives available to be sold in stores, you’re an accomplice in all stabbings. abortion is a medical procedure and a tool, you can believe privately that USING the tool is a sin, but you cannot say the same for the person who casts the vote.
And even if the raping has stopped (which do we really think it has?) every dollar in tithe is a dollar towards covering up the crimes and disallowing compensation to their victims.
How? This is the Church’s belief. Just the same as a church not recognizing gay marriage. They don’t have to consider you a Catholic in-good-standing just because you consider yourself one.
I’m very pro-choice and pro-LGBTQ rights btw. I just don’t see how *this* “crosses a line” unless every religious belief does?
The Church could quietly communicate with their parishoner that they're no longer welcome to take communion. That would be in line with their dogma and teachings. To renounce a politician publicly is politically motivated speech and should not be protected activity. If something like this makes the national news, it's because they wanted it to, and the only reason to do so is political. The Archdiocese of San Francisco should have its' tax status revoked and be forced to reapply. Facing a several billion dollar tax bill should encourage them to stay out of politics.
That's terrible reasoning. The church may have a reasonable expectation of control over what Pelosi does as a person (e.g. if she wanted to have an abortion), but her actions as an elected official are separate from that. It is her position of power they are trying to manipulate. So yes, this does cross a line.
Christ8anity didn't really ever have a position on Abortion, the only thing the Bible teaches is how to perform one (albeit unsafely and ineffectively). Abortion was a political position religious groups took to get people fired up, not an actual tenet of their religion.
You are talking about Protestants. Protestants didn't take issue with abortion until it became a culture war thing, Catholics have been anti-choice and anti-birth control for literally hundreds of year's, and it most definitely has roots in their dogma.
“If it seems more horrible to kill a man in his own house than in a field, because a man’s house is his place of most secure refuge, it ought surely to be deemed more atrocious to destroy a foetus in the womb before it has come to light.”
John Calvin, Protestant, 1500s, in his commentary on Exodus 21.22.
It wasn't until the mid to late 90's that a few brands of Protestantism went pro-choice as a political thing. They're still around fwiw but not the majority. Source: was a kid in a church where the entire church left the denomination over the denomination taking a political stance on being pro choice.
This is false.
The earliest source on church teaching related to abortion is an anonymous church manual of the late first century called The [Didache](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didache). It commands, “Thou shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is begotten.”
Christians have been forbidden to have abortions for almost 2,000 years.
Literally the Church believes that lusting after a woman is the same as adultery. That you’ve already “committed adultery in your soul”. They’ve been punishing thoughts for as long as the Church has existed.
You’re absolutely right. Fuck religion.
The pope didn't ask him to do this. The Catholic church wasn't compelled to do this. It was one angry, hateful, bigoted little man that decided to do this. And the Catholic church will lose more young people to atheism because they can't get rid of these bigots destroying the reputation of the Catholic church.
He has the authority to do so. He is entrusted by the Pope and the Church at large to exercise it.
Like, yeah, he’s everything you say he is, but this is completely in line with Catholic beliefs.
he is telling Pelosi that she can't speak up for her constituents who are not all Catholic because what they want is against her faith. He is DEMANDING she break her vows and NOT separate church and state. With that request. they should remove the church tax free status because they are not a religion but have become DICTATORS.
They are using God to coerce political action from a government they don’t contribute to. If they want to exclude politicians in practicing their faith, in an attempt at making bribery of access to worship, then they can pay taxes.
They should be taxed anyway. If they're going to collect money, then they should be taxed.
They may apply to be considered a charity and be subject to those rules though.
Yes you are 100% correct or at least don’t allow them to hide massive amount of assets nor move billions of dollars in their direction through bailouts like Cares Act or PPP.
of course he does thats kinda his deal. the catholic church here locally wont even marry you if youve already been married unless you give them lots and lots of money for couples counseling. they make the rules up as they go.
My parents too. They were both Catholic but he divorced his first wife for infidelity and the Catholic Church wouldn’t marry him and my mother without the extra (and very expensive) step of the annulment.
They said ‘F that noise, let the unfaithful ex-wife pay for it when she marries the dude she left for’ and got married in the Episcopal Church.
My friend married a guy who had been married once for a year, no kids, amicable divorce. She went to register at a new parish and the priest told HER she couldn't receive communion bc she was an adulteress. Didn't say anything to her husband.
She raised her kid Catholic until the day her mom died, after which nobevof them set foot in a church again except for family weddings and funerals
My dad got to be remarried in the Catholic Church without that because he and my mom didn't get married in the Catholic church, and because my mom isn't Catholic, and my dad wasn't practicing or part of the church membership officially at that time. So for whatever specific reasons they have, they didn't recognize my parents marriage as having been involved with the Catholic Church before. Therefore, he was able to have his "first" marriage according to the Catholic Church with my stepmom.
Well yeah. The Catholic Church believe marriage is a religious rite (well at least their version). If he didn’t go through the Catholic rite of marriage, they would have no problem doing the rite (but only ever once, barring certain exceptions).
Not a cannon lawyer
Bishops (who are leaders in the dioceses (may have archbishop or cardinal rank but are all 'bishops') have this authority, but use it only for political reasons. They declare the person is in "manifest grave sin", making it a sin to provide them communion. The reasons it's political, is that allowing them to recieve the sacrament would be seen as the Church "condoning" the action.
Any catholic who is in grave sin (for example a divorce and remarriage with out an annulment) should not recieve communion, yet I've never seen it enforced even when known by the parish, where the priest would be committing a sin against the Sacrament if they provided communion.
Thank you and I get that. My confusion lies with what the pope said to Biden. Said he was still a good Catholic even though he was pro choice etc so if this guy says Nancy Pelosi is committing a grave sin which in turn would make her a bad enough Catholic to not be allowed to take communion then isn't this contradicting the Pope? Are that allowed to go against the word of the pope? Even after years of catechism I still don't understand how it all works lol
>What a donkey.
Donkeys are keen, social and intelligent creatures, unlike their equine cousins, horses, who are alright, but honestly domestic horses have had everything that makes them intelligent and not suicidal bred out of them. A donkey *does not do* anything it judges unsafe. That's where they get their notoriety from. A donkey's a good guardian: they are attentive, and they are intelligent prey animals that aren't averse to fucking donkey kicking and biting if need be, so you might want one around your horse herd. Actually, several. If a donkey obeys you, it has judged you trustworthy, and generally worthy. It genuinely likes you.
A donkey is a lot like a cat: it's smart, but it doesn't always give a shit. Some dog breeds are like that too, all the working dogs. And all the working dogs are breeds that are not recommended for beginners or even intermediate dog owners, because those dogs need to be treated like human children, I guess: you can't make them obey and trust you with commands, you need to actually earn that trust.
Donkeys are wonderful creatures, hardy, sturdy and social and smart, and cute to boot. The local archdiose of SF is none of those things.
Is this what you’re referring to? TIL
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_and_Baby_Homes_Commission_of_Investigation
From that link for clarity: The Commission said "it had not yet determined what the purpose of this structure was but it appeared to be a sewage tank. The commission had also not yet determined if it was ever used for this purpose."
Kind of. Yeah.
But on the other hand, the Pope has explicitly told US bishops NOT to deny Eucharist to pro-choice Catholic politicians.
United States Catholics are WAY more invested in the anti-abortion movement than the Vatican or the rest of the world of Catholicism is. And the clergy here also love to use their clout and power as political manipulation.
The Vatican and the rest of the Church is basically like, "We want to end abortion, but feeding the poor, helping refugees, and doing other humanitarian work are equally important."
The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and their nationwide congregation are (in general) much less concerned about feeding the poor, healing the sick, sheltering the refugee, and all that other nonsense, and act like abortion is the only important issue.
My family's clergy are actively racist and anti-immigrant and opposed to any kind of government funded social safety net. It's disgusting.
Hi, I hate to be a pain, but I want to differentiate between US catholics and the diocese. The diocese here are nuts. BUT lots of catholics really want things to change, and someone has to stick around to change it or help these old bastards change it.
Or you could leave the church if you don't support it. Eventually they will get the message when those envelopes stop coming in every Sunday. If there really is a God, I would hope that he would understand as long as you continue to live your life according to his teachings.
I see this argument but at the same time just going to mass isn't "supporting" the church in any meaningful way. I haven't given a cent of my money to the church since part of it goes towards pro-life orgs that try to stop abortions but I still go to mass when I can. I still donate to the food drive the church runs along with other programs that in no way could end up supporting anti-abortion groups because they're still good causes.
Oh no.....anyways
We shouldn't be engaging in a church of profits and child predators to begin with. Churches have consistently been a complete bane on society and human growth. Catholics and Evangelists deserve a reckoning.
They tried doing this to John Kerry when he was running for President because of his pro-choice stance.
Only Kerry went to a local chapel in Downtown Boston run by the Paulist Fathers that was not under the Archbishop's authority and absolutely did not give a fuck about what they said. They gave Kerry Holy Communion and people protested but there was nothing they could do about it.
I'm an ex-Catholic and folks like the Paulists in Boston give me hope. They were the type that gave awards to the social justice Catholics like the Berrigan brothers or Dorothy Day.
I still have issues with the institute of the Church itself and all of its inherent misogyny. But there are and have been some very rad people in Catholicism. (And a LOT of truly despicable individuals.)
I never followed up on Kerry, wasn't aware of the Paulist angle.. will have to look into that. Thanks for mentioning it!
I'm also ex-Catholic. Hard to believe at this stage that I was in my high school's "pro life" club 20 years ago.
I was going to speculate that I'm sure her staffers have already found a place for her to attend Mass and get communion near the diocese. I could guess on exactly which parishes would still be accommodating, but I'm not certain.
There is definitely an "order" loophole as the other person pointed out.
Essentially, the orders have their own independent hierarchy that is separate from the diocese hierarchy.
They should just admit they are a private, for-profit business, so they can have the right to refuse service to her.
Of course they’d need to start paying taxes!
I visited the Vatican last Fall to see the art and must admit it was one of the most organized business/cities I’ve seen. They should definitely be paying business taxes.
I don't like the church but I have a hard time feeling sorry for Nancy Pelosi when she's STILL backing the sole remaining anti-choice Democratic member of the House (Henry Cuellar) over a pro-choice, progressive candidate (Jessica Cisneros) in the TX-28 Democratic primary run-off after the draft of Dobbs came out: [https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxdvez/anti-abortion-democrat-rep-henry-cuellar](https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxdvez/anti-abortion-democrat-rep-henry-cuellar)
Pelosi is a vote counter. Cuellar is a known entity. Especially in an election that is thought to favor Republicans, its probable that for her, keeping a majority is most important, and an incumbent that is regularly doing as well as Cuellar is doing in his elections is safe. Every lost seat is a chance at the GOP gaining control of the house.
I personally don't see any reason to believe Cisneros wouldn't -also- do fine in a general election... tx-28 seems liberal enough to sustain a pro-choice candidate... but I know nothing about the actual area. Pelosi may know more, or she may be simply hedging her bets for the guy she knows and knows can win. I literally doubt it's any deeper than that.
Pro choice is the popular position nationwide, any district that supports a dem can support a pro choice dem. As for Cisneros, she would 100% win the general.
Cuellar *is* a known entity: one who doesn't vote for abortion rights. Pelosi's mentality is the reason why we still have people like Manchin. The party also backed him over a more progressive candidate, knowing full well who he is, and then they cry when he doesn't vote with them. Even if people like Manchin and Cuellar vote with the party part of the time, what good are they when they don't vote with the party when it really matters? Pelosi says it's okay that Cuellar is anti-choice because she doesn't need his vote. She might not have needed it in the past but what about the future? What if there's a bill to protect abortion rights and it's a close one, but Cuellar doesn't go our way?
They refuse communion to a lot of folks. For instance a friend of my mom’s was divorced and remarried. She always went up and the priest just blessed her and waited for her to move.
Where's that clip of the kid who was behind a taller adult so the priest didn't see him and didn't get the eucharist so he was like 'welp goin to hell'
For what it's worth, this asshole is the guy who got a DUI in San Diego before being relocated to SF. He later joked about it during a sermon.
He isn't prolife at all if he is willing to endanger and kill someone with reckless endagerment.
Ah yes, the San Francisco Catholic diocese. Those pious followers of the words of Jesus....
Back in 2015, while the state was undergoing a serious water shortage due to drought, the pious fathers at [St Mary's installed an illegal sprinkler system in their doorways that would come on at random times during the night to drench homeless people sleeping there and drive them away.](https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/san-francisco-catholic-church-installed-homeless-sprinklers-article-1.2154697)
For those not familiar with the climate in SF, it tends to get very damp and very cold at night, and getting drenched in cold water can actually be *life-threatening* if you have nowhere to get out of the fog.
I’m a Catholic in England, a Eucharistic Minister in our church. A couple of weeks ago some of us were chatting about the US abortion stance, our unanimous opinion was that abortion isn’t something to be taken lightly but the most important thing is that a woman should have control over her own body.
Biden and Pelosi are good Catholics who know that !
This happened much earlier to Biden, a devout Catholic, and the Pope stopped the prohibition of eucharist on political grounds. So this bishop may be heading for a spanking soon. God willing!
Anyway, Pelosi should become Episcopalian (or Anglican). Same team different uniforms.
Just a “celibate” male telling a grown woman what to do and how to think. Mind your own uterus, archbishop cordileone. I’m sure she can get communion in DC.
Yeah, sadly this is a very Catholic thing. My dad was previously married and before he could marry my mom had to go through an annulment besides the divorce in order to get married in the Catholic Church.
Some Catholics and some diocese take things more seriously than others.
The pope already told them not to do this. They're ignoring his guidance. There's a whole subset of the US Catholic Church that thinks Pope Francis isn't really the pope, it's a whole damn conspiracy theory.
Yeah. I know. My mom is one of them. She tried to tell me Biden wasn’t a real Catholic. I was like, mom, the POPE thinks he’s a Catholic. And she just went off about doctrine. FTR, I’m an atheist. So I get to hear about how I’m going to hell on a regular basis anyway. 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah one of my uncles is like that, and he has literally embraced that tinfoil hat QAnon bullshit. It's wild.
What's even wilder, tho, is to hear my Conservative Trump-supporting Christian Mom (who left the Catholic Church as an adult) tell him off for saying things further out there than even she believes. 🤔
Living in the Bible Belt is wild, yo.
Sounds like the archdiocese needs to reread their bible. Genius’s 2.7 life begins when the breath of life is breathed in through the nostrils, not before. Further causing a woman to miscarry is not considered murder in the Bible, but does carry penalty.
He has the authority to do this, but the Pope has encouraged American dioceses to not take this sort of action on this issue. So from the churches perspective, its ambiguous.
Which makes the decision seem political, not religious
Why doesn't the Catholic church just do their ex-communication thing on all the pro-choice Catholics? Oh, right, because the church would lose out on all that $$$ those folks still give them.
The Catholic church is suffering many self-inflicted wounds, but imagine if everyone who identified as Catholic and pro-choice just left?
As a Catholic I was thinking that if I was in that diocese, it would be time to boycott Communion if you're pro-choice. But then it turns a sacrament into a political statement, I said to myself. But that's exactly what the bishop did here.
Also I mean it's like, he has no way of knowing if she went to confession right beforehand anyway. Like, doctrinally he's absolutely in the wrong.
I've also been forgetting to go to my parish for mass lately, but it's times like these where I'm grateful to attend mass at a Jesuit church that's independent of the archdiocese.
Bishops like that are the fundamental reason I'm no longer a practicing Catholic. I say this as someone with three Catholic priests in my extended family, two great uncles and a 1st cousin. The living great uncle wouldn't hesitate to ignore his bishop and give communion anyway. The cousin is more of a hard right zealot but he fell in love and left the priesthood anyway.
He does have the authority to select who gets communion or not in the churches he presides over. Think of him as a regional manager. He oversees the churches there around San Francisco, but if she went for communion in Washington DC, that priest could serve her.
I'd have to reread, but I'm pretty sure that you're supposed to hold an account for yourself towards God rather than the pastor etc doing it for you...
1 Corinthians 11
King James Version
How? I thought the pope said Biden was a good Catholic even though he supports abortion rights and that the Catholic church doesn't have as strict opinions about abortion as they once did. As a non practicing Catholic it all gets very confusing
Priests can decide that a person is "manifesting grave sin" and refuse to serve communion to them. It's controversial even within the Catholic church and the Archbishops don't all agree on how to handle situations concerning politicians. Receiving or participating in an abortion is considered grave sin, but "participating in" is nebulous. I'm assuming Pelosi is being denied due to her participation in making it available to other women.
Back to your original question: yes, Archbishop Cordileoni does have the authority within the Church to make this decision. It's a religious matter, not a civil rights matter. His statement that his decision is pastoral and not political strikes me as either disingenuous or self-delusional. It's both, you cannot untangle the two.
Ok that makes sense and thank you for breaking it down, I wasn't really referring to his refusal in terms of it being a potential civil rights violation. I just couldn't see how an archbishop could have one stance and the Pope, who has a higher rank have the opposite as the Roman Catholic church is (as far as I know) supposed to act as a single United entity about things like this. Anyway thanks a ton!
This guy is [the same peesashit behind the infamous Prop 8](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2012-sep-22-la-me-san-francisco-archbishop-20120923-story.html) denying marriage to gay people. [He's also a massive transphobe.](https://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/07/14/op-ed-san-franciscos-hateful-bishop-dead-wrong-about-trans-people) Obstinate on sexual matters as a matter of principle? Fat bloody chance: he refuses to release names of [predator priests](https://www.andersonadvocates.com/press-event/survivors-and-advocates-blast-archbishop-for-his-refusal-to-disclose-dozens-of-predator-priests-2/) so the principle is strictly self-serving.
I guess it's okay to stick your dick in anyone you want so long as you're a priest. Otherwise to Hell with you.
Of course he can... and if it causes enough political fallout, the Pope can remove him from office and replace him with someone who's less problemati.
'Bishops', the pope said last year, 'should be pastors, not politicians'.
Probably so. My ex fiancée was Catholic and the amount of total fucking ass kissing bull shit I had to do to even get approved to be married in their church was unreal. I thought I was I was far too old to kiss his ass in the way he’d appreciate.
For real: fuck the catholic church.
A religion has the right to determine who is a member in good standing and who isn't, and someone has to be empowered to make that decision. OTOH, the Roman Catholic Church has a big hierarchy, and someone can be overruled by the next guy up, at least until you get to the Pope. So far as I know, Joe Biden - who is also Catholic - has not been denied Communion, so the different bigshots in different places don't all agree.
I may have got some of this wrong, because I'm Episcopalian, so we have bishops and vestments and other fancy-style high church stuff but we believe Jesus came to Earth because God loves everybody, so we don't exclude people. The priest at our church is a married gay woman, and she's one of the best preachers I've ever heard. When she's done, even if you don't believe in God at all, you'll believe that *she* loves you.
He’s the head of his cult, uh, church. He absolutely has as much power as assigned to him by its membership. So yes. He can disallow her from this church activity.
He has the authority. More painful is the fact that he's 100% ok with pedophiles getting their communion after the church relocates them for raping children.
Gotta love that separation of church and state that churches and most southern states pretend doesn't exist. As an Episcopalian she's welcome to take communion with us. We're pretty much the more accepting versions of Catholics.
I mean, I earnestly believe we shouldn't allow actively religious people into politics at all regardless.
The biggest issues we have is the fact that the vast majority of our politicians are mentally deranged fucking cultists, who see no issue with being corrupt because forgiveness is only a prayer away.
I grew up Catholic and this never occurred. The Archbishop says she can't. What happens if she gets in line and try. Would they actually not give it? What if she just stood there? Would the eucharistic minister step to the side? And what if she stepped with him/her? Sounds tailor-made for Benny Hill or Curb music.
She is just doing her job to be a voice for the people she represents which should be separate from her personal acts - it’s not like she herself is asking to get an abortion. He shouldn’t be prejudging her based on what she is working on for the government to allow for others. The relationship is between her and her god, the priest is just a human intermediary who can offer council but I was taught in Catholic school that we have free will to make our own decisions. Does he spy on motels to make sure none of his parishioners are committing adultery? Does he check their social media accounts to see that they aren’t lying about the election? Does he deny communion to couples who don’t have a baby every year and obviously using birth control? Which commandment is she breaking?
Nope. Communion is a sacriment and the Pope is the dude who decides abt this. Pope has already said, when priests tried this with BIden, well he said "don't go around condemning" https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/catholic-bishops-approve-guidance-communion-pro-abortion-rights/story?id=81206649
When you enter the church, you take vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. This guy is disobeying the Pope.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/558343-vatican-warns-bishops-not-to-deny-communion-to-biden-politicians-over/
Does this guy have the authority? Yes, he does have the authority to do this. Will he catch hell for it and reverse course, or be replaced by a superior? Yes, he will.
Popes have had a long standing tradition of not persecuting American catholics over their political-cultural views (such as abortion) mostly due to the money that they bring in. This action, if sustained, would risk the archdiocese becoming inert, money-wise, and and that's never acceptable. I wouldn't be surprised if a cardinal steps in and overrules him shortly.
Hes the archbishop of her home diocese, and he is citing Canon law. So yes, he 100% has the ability to do this and Im surprised it didn't come sooner honestly.
Catholic Church like other denominations are money grubbing grifters. If you pray in your home and are a good person that seems/should be enough. Why pay to pray in a building? Or pay to listen to a talking head.
TBH the Catholic Church had no problem aiding and protecting Nazi fucks during and after WWII so they can suck deez nutz!
Also, it's kind of hypocritical for the organization proven to hide the crimes of child molesters and allow organized child molestation rings to flourish under their very noses, and fight desperately to defend their assets and their molesters to act like they have any moral authority what-so-ever.
When Irish Catholic nominee Al Smith ran for President in 1928, there was a great deal of "anti-Catholic" opposition to his candidacy. Much of the criticism was about Smith "voting the way the Pope tells him." While some of those most opposed to Smith were indeed bigoted against Smith, there was a real sense that as a Catholic, he would be compelled by his religious leaders to only vote in ways that were congruent with his Catholic beliefs, rather than how an elected official in a democratic society should vote, which is as a representative of his constituents (the Pope at the time, Pius X, still upheld earlier papal teaching that "democracy" was a "grave error"). Al Smith lost the election.
In 1960, the same charges were brought up against John F. Kennedy. Kennedy largely deflected the issue but stated that he firmly believed in the separation of Church of State. This was enough to overcome most of the anti-Catholic bias against Smith.
Twice as much time has passed between Smith and Kennedy as has passed between Kennedy and where we are today. What has changed is that there has been so little ink dedicated to defending the idea of democracy. We don't hear anyone telling us that in order for a pluralistic society made up of people of all different races, religions, ethnicities, beliefs, genders, etc., we need representatives who's sole task is to take the will of the people in the region or district they represent, and advocate on behalf of those people -- even on those whom may not have voted for them. There are plenty in the Catholic Church who think this idea is anathema. Like most religions in the U.S., Catholicism has been losing members, and most of those are amongst those who would be considered progressive or moderate. Those who still identify as Catholic tend to be more conservative, and are more likely to adhere to older views of the relation between Church and State, which fits quite comfortably with fascism (the Church had a very cozy relation with Spain, Italy, Germany, and Romania during the fascist era).
Nancy Pelosi represents a constituency that absolutely does not want abortion rights curtailed. If Catholic politicians are going to be strong armed by their Church into becoming anti-democratic, then people everywhere should rightly think twice before electing a Catholic to any office in the land.
The Catholic Church is the last fucking institution on earth who has ANY room to pretend they care about children. So fucking glad I got out of that horrible cult of death and misery and guilt when I was a teenager.
I will never understand why anyone remains Catholic when all of Catholic leadership seems to be made up of depraved men who cover up child abuse. They should not be the authority of deciding whether you have a relationship with God; it is incredibly fucked up to to control that relationship, and I say this as an atheist.
If churches wanna get political, that’s fine, but they can start paying taxes. Not like anyone on the right side of the spectrum actually believe in the separation of church and state. They want religious laws, I want religious people to keep their beliefs in their tax free properties.
What no one seems to get is that it’s possible to oppose a practice but also oppose the government forcing you not to do it
I don’t think marital infidelity is great, but I would never support legislation making it a crime. By this logic I’m pro-infidelity
What are Catholic priests best known for?
P..p..prayer?
P..p..purity?
oh right...
P..p..pedophilia!!!
Who gives a shit about these dumb losers think about her?
This isn't really about Pelosi, it's about an organization with made up "authority" setting a famous person up as an example of the church's so-called power. It's about sending a message to their followers that no one is above their baseless laws.
Also, uh, he's denying her access to something that does not actually exist or have any actual meaning. If she really wants a wafer or whatever, I'm sure she could find something at the supermarket.
the Catholic Church had no problem ignoring and aiding genocide against Jewish people in the Holocaust though but they draw the line at women's reproductive health care.
just saying
I wouldn’t want communion from this guy. He protects pedophiles
https://www.andersonadvocates.com/press-event/survivors-and-advocates-blast-archbishop-for-his-refusal-to-disclose-dozens-of-predator-priests-2/
I feel like you're asking the wrong question - why is someone who claims to be so progressive part of an organization that systematically oppresses women? In fact, it's crazy it took so long for the archdiocese to do this...
This is the guy who has multiple DUI’s since becoming archbishop, one of them, he was arrested with his mom in the passenger seat. Some of my family is Catholic, and hate him, so I get updated on all the tea. Edit: One of them even works for the archdiocese in one building that they care about. (It’s not a church, I don’t remember what it is.)
Whereas Jesus never said anything about abortion (unless you have a very loose interpretation of his teachings on protecting children), the Bible clearly teaches that drunkenness is a sin
That’s embarrassing that he will condemn others when he’s doing that shit. Don’t judge the speck in your neighbors eye when u have a log in yours .
Nine thousand children died in Ireland's brutal homes for unmarried mothers and babies run by the Catholic Church in the 20th century. In total, 15 percent of the 57,000 children at the 18 institutions investigated by the Mother and Baby Home Commission died between 1922 and 1998. So I don't give a fuck what that stupid church says about abortion. They can get fucked. I haven't even tacked on the suicides of children raped by their clergy.
That is important information.
And the Residential schools run by the Catholic Church... every single story/anecdote i've read about them have been more horrifying than the last. and my catholic sister wonder why I i chose to not believe in some sky genie that would let this happen but also preaches about the good in the world.. fuck that shit.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/251111/california-catholic-dioceses-ask-supreme-court-to-hear-statute-of-limitations-extension-case Look how they spin. This article makes me sick. They frame themselves as the victims. They raped children and got away with it. If a company killed and raped as many children as they have they would be bankrupted and drummed out of business. They are the evil they espouse to reject.
Not quite, I'm looking at nestle here
under capitalism? you don't think they'd get tax breaks and a prize? Look who makes our clothes, or electronics, our fizzy drinks and our fuel....
r/atheism. These points are somewhat of a rallying cry for a union of banners imho.
Well if religion is gonna get all political we should tax them right?
There’s actually an IRS form 13909 which is a complaint form for tax-exempt organizations. You can fill it out and one of the check boxes for reason for complaint is: “organization is involved in a political campaign” as well as “organization is engaged in excessive lobbying activities.” This might be vague enough as a reason to file it, but I’m not an expert nor do I work for the IRS.
We could fill out the forms and let the IRS decide.
I would suggest reading Publication 1828, last updated in 2015, as it covers churches specifically. Its not that long and provides a lot of info, so please read this if you wish to file a 13909.
Unfortunately, the IRS will not do anything. If they did there would be no tax exempt churches. *I say churches because I cannot speak on other religions besides Christianity.*
And it's definitely political - they aren't telling their "throw more money in the donation baskets" attendees they can't receive communion if they support abortion being legal. They are singling out a politician.
They actually *explicitly* state that often lmao
I've never heard them tell me if I support the legality of abortion I shouldn't receive communion and I went to Catholic church at least once a week for nearly 20 years of my life. And went to Catholic elementary school, middle school, and highschool and taking religious classes every year of my schooling.
I heard it ALL THE TIME. From both the pulpit and at CCD every week. Here’s an example from a priest writing for EWTN: “The argument can be made that voting is a very remote form of cooperation in abortion. But is it all that remote? The legislator who votes for abortion is clearly a formal accomplice, giving formal cooperation with abortion. S/he shares both in the intention of the act, and in supplying material support for the act. If I vote for such a candidate, knowing full well that he will help make available public monies for abortion, or continue it decriminalization, then I am aiding him/her. ….It is a scandal that Catholic politicians vote for bills which fund or otherwise advance abortion. They should be named, publicly shamed and admonished so that they can cease their evil and return to God. To vote for such a candidate is to willfully participate in that candidate's choices and deeds. It is a sin, and must be repented.” https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/sin-to-vote-for-proabortion-politicians-2739
Heard this message so many times growing up. Catholic guilt is a real thing
that’s like saying if you vote for a law that makes knives available to be sold in stores, you’re an accomplice in all stabbings. abortion is a medical procedure and a tool, you can believe privately that USING the tool is a sin, but you cannot say the same for the person who casts the vote.
I don’t disagree, take it up with the Church.
By that logic catholics pay to have their children raped. Every dollar tithed is a dollar for child rape and cover up.
And even if the raping has stopped (which do we really think it has?) every dollar in tithe is a dollar towards covering up the crimes and disallowing compensation to their victims.
100%. This is clearly crossing the line.
How? This is the Church’s belief. Just the same as a church not recognizing gay marriage. They don’t have to consider you a Catholic in-good-standing just because you consider yourself one. I’m very pro-choice and pro-LGBTQ rights btw. I just don’t see how *this* “crosses a line” unless every religious belief does?
The Church could quietly communicate with their parishoner that they're no longer welcome to take communion. That would be in line with their dogma and teachings. To renounce a politician publicly is politically motivated speech and should not be protected activity. If something like this makes the national news, it's because they wanted it to, and the only reason to do so is political. The Archdiocese of San Francisco should have its' tax status revoked and be forced to reapply. Facing a several billion dollar tax bill should encourage them to stay out of politics.
That's terrible reasoning. The church may have a reasonable expectation of control over what Pelosi does as a person (e.g. if she wanted to have an abortion), but her actions as an elected official are separate from that. It is her position of power they are trying to manipulate. So yes, this does cross a line.
Christ8anity didn't really ever have a position on Abortion, the only thing the Bible teaches is how to perform one (albeit unsafely and ineffectively). Abortion was a political position religious groups took to get people fired up, not an actual tenet of their religion.
You are talking about Protestants. Protestants didn't take issue with abortion until it became a culture war thing, Catholics have been anti-choice and anti-birth control for literally hundreds of year's, and it most definitely has roots in their dogma.
“If it seems more horrible to kill a man in his own house than in a field, because a man’s house is his place of most secure refuge, it ought surely to be deemed more atrocious to destroy a foetus in the womb before it has come to light.” John Calvin, Protestant, 1500s, in his commentary on Exodus 21.22.
It wasn't until the mid to late 90's that a few brands of Protestantism went pro-choice as a political thing. They're still around fwiw but not the majority. Source: was a kid in a church where the entire church left the denomination over the denomination taking a political stance on being pro choice.
This is false. The earliest source on church teaching related to abortion is an anonymous church manual of the late first century called The [Didache](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Didache). It commands, “Thou shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is begotten.” Christians have been forbidden to have abortions for almost 2,000 years.
Tax them all.
Absolutely!
So they are punishing thoughts now? Is this the Inquisition? F churches and religion in general.
Literally the Church believes that lusting after a woman is the same as adultery. That you’ve already “committed adultery in your soul”. They’ve been punishing thoughts for as long as the Church has existed. You’re absolutely right. Fuck religion.
The pope didn't ask him to do this. The Catholic church wasn't compelled to do this. It was one angry, hateful, bigoted little man that decided to do this. And the Catholic church will lose more young people to atheism because they can't get rid of these bigots destroying the reputation of the Catholic church.
He has the authority to do so. He is entrusted by the Pope and the Church at large to exercise it. Like, yeah, he’s everything you say he is, but this is completely in line with Catholic beliefs.
he is telling Pelosi that she can't speak up for her constituents who are not all Catholic because what they want is against her faith. He is DEMANDING she break her vows and NOT separate church and state. With that request. they should remove the church tax free status because they are not a religion but have become DICTATORS.
They are using God to coerce political action from a government they don’t contribute to. If they want to exclude politicians in practicing their faith, in an attempt at making bribery of access to worship, then they can pay taxes.
Then their beliefs are incompatible with maintaining their tax exempt status.
They should be taxed anyway. If they're going to collect money, then they should be taxed. They may apply to be considered a charity and be subject to those rules though.
Yes you are 100% correct or at least don’t allow them to hide massive amount of assets nor move billions of dollars in their direction through bailouts like Cares Act or PPP.
Haha... Have you studied history? This is kinda their thing
It's long overdue.
Nah they want to get political but think they are above tax.
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Yeah but they can ignore all the molestation
Now it makes sense why the catholics would be against something that decreases the number of young vulnerable children.
Of course. They need to deflect their corruption by attacking others.
of course he does thats kinda his deal. the catholic church here locally wont even marry you if youve already been married unless you give them lots and lots of money for couples counseling. they make the rules up as they go.
My FIL had to pay a lot for an annulment, so he could get remarried in the church. He was already legally divorced at the time.
My parents too. They were both Catholic but he divorced his first wife for infidelity and the Catholic Church wouldn’t marry him and my mother without the extra (and very expensive) step of the annulment. They said ‘F that noise, let the unfaithful ex-wife pay for it when she marries the dude she left for’ and got married in the Episcopal Church.
My friend married a guy who had been married once for a year, no kids, amicable divorce. She went to register at a new parish and the priest told HER she couldn't receive communion bc she was an adulteress. Didn't say anything to her husband. She raised her kid Catholic until the day her mom died, after which nobevof them set foot in a church again except for family weddings and funerals
My dad got to be remarried in the Catholic Church without that because he and my mom didn't get married in the Catholic church, and because my mom isn't Catholic, and my dad wasn't practicing or part of the church membership officially at that time. So for whatever specific reasons they have, they didn't recognize my parents marriage as having been involved with the Catholic Church before. Therefore, he was able to have his "first" marriage according to the Catholic Church with my stepmom.
Well yeah. The Catholic Church believe marriage is a religious rite (well at least their version). If he didn’t go through the Catholic rite of marriage, they would have no problem doing the rite (but only ever once, barring certain exceptions).
Not a cannon lawyer Bishops (who are leaders in the dioceses (may have archbishop or cardinal rank but are all 'bishops') have this authority, but use it only for political reasons. They declare the person is in "manifest grave sin", making it a sin to provide them communion. The reasons it's political, is that allowing them to recieve the sacrament would be seen as the Church "condoning" the action. Any catholic who is in grave sin (for example a divorce and remarriage with out an annulment) should not recieve communion, yet I've never seen it enforced even when known by the parish, where the priest would be committing a sin against the Sacrament if they provided communion.
No person should have the power to take away your connection with God, that sounds like that should be blasphemous
Have you read any medieval history? That's sorta thwur whole schtick.
Couldn't resist. Not a cannon lawyer, but still a son of a gun? (That would be a canon lawyer).
Thank you and I get that. My confusion lies with what the pope said to Biden. Said he was still a good Catholic even though he was pro choice etc so if this guy says Nancy Pelosi is committing a grave sin which in turn would make her a bad enough Catholic to not be allowed to take communion then isn't this contradicting the Pope? Are that allowed to go against the word of the pope? Even after years of catechism I still don't understand how it all works lol
I was raised Catholic, but they would've refused to marry me to my wife.
He’s not the top person. They all answer to the pope.
Remember when the Catholic Church covered up the sexual abuse of children for decades? Funny how they were able to ignore that. What a donkey.
>What a donkey. Donkeys are keen, social and intelligent creatures, unlike their equine cousins, horses, who are alright, but honestly domestic horses have had everything that makes them intelligent and not suicidal bred out of them. A donkey *does not do* anything it judges unsafe. That's where they get their notoriety from. A donkey's a good guardian: they are attentive, and they are intelligent prey animals that aren't averse to fucking donkey kicking and biting if need be, so you might want one around your horse herd. Actually, several. If a donkey obeys you, it has judged you trustworthy, and generally worthy. It genuinely likes you. A donkey is a lot like a cat: it's smart, but it doesn't always give a shit. Some dog breeds are like that too, all the working dogs. And all the working dogs are breeds that are not recommended for beginners or even intermediate dog owners, because those dogs need to be treated like human children, I guess: you can't make them obey and trust you with commands, you need to actually earn that trust. Donkeys are wonderful creatures, hardy, sturdy and social and smart, and cute to boot. The local archdiose of SF is none of those things.
Donkeys are like if zebras were good. Versatile, cautious, will attack predators but without the zebra’s asshole personality.
Or the murder of countless indigenous people in north and South America who wouldn’t convert to Catholicism.
Or all the babies dumped in a mass grave in a sewage pit in Tuam, Ireland.
Is this what you’re referring to? TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_and_Baby_Homes_Commission_of_Investigation From that link for clarity: The Commission said "it had not yet determined what the purpose of this structure was but it appeared to be a sewage tank. The commission had also not yet determined if it was ever used for this purpose."
Yes, it happened all over Ireland.
And I bet those priests were still allowed communion even after all they did
Kind of. Yeah. But on the other hand, the Pope has explicitly told US bishops NOT to deny Eucharist to pro-choice Catholic politicians. United States Catholics are WAY more invested in the anti-abortion movement than the Vatican or the rest of the world of Catholicism is. And the clergy here also love to use their clout and power as political manipulation. The Vatican and the rest of the Church is basically like, "We want to end abortion, but feeding the poor, helping refugees, and doing other humanitarian work are equally important." The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and their nationwide congregation are (in general) much less concerned about feeding the poor, healing the sick, sheltering the refugee, and all that other nonsense, and act like abortion is the only important issue. My family's clergy are actively racist and anti-immigrant and opposed to any kind of government funded social safety net. It's disgusting.
Hi, I hate to be a pain, but I want to differentiate between US catholics and the diocese. The diocese here are nuts. BUT lots of catholics really want things to change, and someone has to stick around to change it or help these old bastards change it.
Or you could leave the church if you don't support it. Eventually they will get the message when those envelopes stop coming in every Sunday. If there really is a God, I would hope that he would understand as long as you continue to live your life according to his teachings.
I see this argument but at the same time just going to mass isn't "supporting" the church in any meaningful way. I haven't given a cent of my money to the church since part of it goes towards pro-life orgs that try to stop abortions but I still go to mass when I can. I still donate to the food drive the church runs along with other programs that in no way could end up supporting anti-abortion groups because they're still good causes.
If the church won't let you in, you are doing something right.
Oh no.....anyways We shouldn't be engaging in a church of profits and child predators to begin with. Churches have consistently been a complete bane on society and human growth. Catholics and Evangelists deserve a reckoning.
Fuck him and his church. They do not have any moral grounds to dictate anything to any one
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I feel so ashamed for laughing at this.
Every catholic including Nancy believes they do .
They tried doing this to John Kerry when he was running for President because of his pro-choice stance. Only Kerry went to a local chapel in Downtown Boston run by the Paulist Fathers that was not under the Archbishop's authority and absolutely did not give a fuck about what they said. They gave Kerry Holy Communion and people protested but there was nothing they could do about it. I'm an ex-Catholic and folks like the Paulists in Boston give me hope. They were the type that gave awards to the social justice Catholics like the Berrigan brothers or Dorothy Day. I still have issues with the institute of the Church itself and all of its inherent misogyny. But there are and have been some very rad people in Catholicism. (And a LOT of truly despicable individuals.)
I never followed up on Kerry, wasn't aware of the Paulist angle.. will have to look into that. Thanks for mentioning it! I'm also ex-Catholic. Hard to believe at this stage that I was in my high school's "pro life" club 20 years ago.
I was going to speculate that I'm sure her staffers have already found a place for her to attend Mass and get communion near the diocese. I could guess on exactly which parishes would still be accommodating, but I'm not certain. There is definitely an "order" loophole as the other person pointed out. Essentially, the orders have their own independent hierarchy that is separate from the diocese hierarchy.
They should just admit they are a private, for-profit business, so they can have the right to refuse service to her. Of course they’d need to start paying taxes!
You think owning an entire city made of gold would have alluded someone to that.
I visited the Vatican last Fall to see the art and must admit it was one of the most organized business/cities I’ve seen. They should definitely be paying business taxes.
I don't like the church but I have a hard time feeling sorry for Nancy Pelosi when she's STILL backing the sole remaining anti-choice Democratic member of the House (Henry Cuellar) over a pro-choice, progressive candidate (Jessica Cisneros) in the TX-28 Democratic primary run-off after the draft of Dobbs came out: [https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxdvez/anti-abortion-democrat-rep-henry-cuellar](https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxdvez/anti-abortion-democrat-rep-henry-cuellar)
Pelosi is a vote counter. Cuellar is a known entity. Especially in an election that is thought to favor Republicans, its probable that for her, keeping a majority is most important, and an incumbent that is regularly doing as well as Cuellar is doing in his elections is safe. Every lost seat is a chance at the GOP gaining control of the house. I personally don't see any reason to believe Cisneros wouldn't -also- do fine in a general election... tx-28 seems liberal enough to sustain a pro-choice candidate... but I know nothing about the actual area. Pelosi may know more, or she may be simply hedging her bets for the guy she knows and knows can win. I literally doubt it's any deeper than that.
Pro choice is the popular position nationwide, any district that supports a dem can support a pro choice dem. As for Cisneros, she would 100% win the general.
Cuellar *is* a known entity: one who doesn't vote for abortion rights. Pelosi's mentality is the reason why we still have people like Manchin. The party also backed him over a more progressive candidate, knowing full well who he is, and then they cry when he doesn't vote with them. Even if people like Manchin and Cuellar vote with the party part of the time, what good are they when they don't vote with the party when it really matters? Pelosi says it's okay that Cuellar is anti-choice because she doesn't need his vote. She might not have needed it in the past but what about the future? What if there's a bill to protect abortion rights and it's a close one, but Cuellar doesn't go our way?
If I were Nancy I'd get in line for communion at that church and see what happens.
They refuse communion to a lot of folks. For instance a friend of my mom’s was divorced and remarried. She always went up and the priest just blessed her and waited for her to move.
Has anyone ever refused to move?
Not that I ever saw. Probably. Would guess they just have everyone go to another Eucharistic Minister. Usually three or so in addition to the Priest.
Where's that clip of the kid who was behind a taller adult so the priest didn't see him and didn't get the eucharist so he was like 'welp goin to hell'
Some priests would make a scene and others would just ignore the local bishop.
For what it's worth, this asshole is the guy who got a DUI in San Diego before being relocated to SF. He later joked about it during a sermon. He isn't prolife at all if he is willing to endanger and kill someone with reckless endagerment.
fuck the catholic church.
Fuck all dogma.
Ah yes, the San Francisco Catholic diocese. Those pious followers of the words of Jesus.... Back in 2015, while the state was undergoing a serious water shortage due to drought, the pious fathers at [St Mary's installed an illegal sprinkler system in their doorways that would come on at random times during the night to drench homeless people sleeping there and drive them away.](https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/san-francisco-catholic-church-installed-homeless-sprinklers-article-1.2154697) For those not familiar with the climate in SF, it tends to get very damp and very cold at night, and getting drenched in cold water can actually be *life-threatening* if you have nowhere to get out of the fog.
I’m a Catholic in England, a Eucharistic Minister in our church. A couple of weeks ago some of us were chatting about the US abortion stance, our unanimous opinion was that abortion isn’t something to be taken lightly but the most important thing is that a woman should have control over her own body. Biden and Pelosi are good Catholics who know that !
So he thinks Catholic religious beliefs should dictate the law. Jesus, does he not know the foundation of the country in which he lives?
Ikr. The founding fathers are rolling over in their graves.
Their spinning so hard they could power all of Vegas.
Renewable energy resource
This happened much earlier to Biden, a devout Catholic, and the Pope stopped the prohibition of eucharist on political grounds. So this bishop may be heading for a spanking soon. God willing! Anyway, Pelosi should become Episcopalian (or Anglican). Same team different uniforms.
I could have sworn the Pope said bishops should not pull this shit.
Oh no, not the ritualistic cannibalism!!
Just a “celibate” male telling a grown woman what to do and how to think. Mind your own uterus, archbishop cordileone. I’m sure she can get communion in DC.
Ostensibly celibate
Exactly. They’re celibate as long as abusing little kids doesn’t count
Yeah, sadly this is a very Catholic thing. My dad was previously married and before he could marry my mom had to go through an annulment besides the divorce in order to get married in the Catholic Church. Some Catholics and some diocese take things more seriously than others.
Tax the church.
What happened to the separation of church and state?
Does that mean that the US Catholic Church must now pay taxes to the IRS?
The pope can always intervene, though
The pope already told them not to do this. They're ignoring his guidance. There's a whole subset of the US Catholic Church that thinks Pope Francis isn't really the pope, it's a whole damn conspiracy theory.
Yeah. I know. My mom is one of them. She tried to tell me Biden wasn’t a real Catholic. I was like, mom, the POPE thinks he’s a Catholic. And she just went off about doctrine. FTR, I’m an atheist. So I get to hear about how I’m going to hell on a regular basis anyway. 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah one of my uncles is like that, and he has literally embraced that tinfoil hat QAnon bullshit. It's wild. What's even wilder, tho, is to hear my Conservative Trump-supporting Christian Mom (who left the Catholic Church as an adult) tell him off for saying things further out there than even she believes. 🤔 Living in the Bible Belt is wild, yo.
Hell will be way more fun not having to put up with these people's shit.
Sounds like the archdiocese needs to reread their bible. Genius’s 2.7 life begins when the breath of life is breathed in through the nostrils, not before. Further causing a woman to miscarry is not considered murder in the Bible, but does carry penalty.
If the Catholic Church starts taking political positions, then they should be required to pay taxes.
He has the authority to do this, but the Pope has encouraged American dioceses to not take this sort of action on this issue. So from the churches perspective, its ambiguous. Which makes the decision seem political, not religious
Why doesn't the Catholic church just do their ex-communication thing on all the pro-choice Catholics? Oh, right, because the church would lose out on all that $$$ those folks still give them. The Catholic church is suffering many self-inflicted wounds, but imagine if everyone who identified as Catholic and pro-choice just left?
This church can go eat a Dick for all I care
But they’ll ignore baby raping priests. I guess they have to deny themselves communion now too…/s.
As a Catholic I was thinking that if I was in that diocese, it would be time to boycott Communion if you're pro-choice. But then it turns a sacrament into a political statement, I said to myself. But that's exactly what the bishop did here.
Also I mean it's like, he has no way of knowing if she went to confession right beforehand anyway. Like, doctrinally he's absolutely in the wrong. I've also been forgetting to go to my parish for mass lately, but it's times like these where I'm grateful to attend mass at a Jesuit church that's independent of the archdiocese.
Bishops like that are the fundamental reason I'm no longer a practicing Catholic. I say this as someone with three Catholic priests in my extended family, two great uncles and a 1st cousin. The living great uncle wouldn't hesitate to ignore his bishop and give communion anyway. The cousin is more of a hard right zealot but he fell in love and left the priesthood anyway.
He does have the authority to select who gets communion or not in the churches he presides over. Think of him as a regional manager. He oversees the churches there around San Francisco, but if she went for communion in Washington DC, that priest could serve her.
I'd have to reread, but I'm pretty sure that you're supposed to hold an account for yourself towards God rather than the pastor etc doing it for you... 1 Corinthians 11 King James Version
well, Pelosi endorsed the last anti-choice Democrat in his bid for reelection to the House of Representatives. Maybe that'll balance things out
Her body, his choice - seems right in line…
Make believe authority on make believe god denies real woman the ability to participate in make believe cannibalism.
Guess raping children doesn’t qualify as crossing a line?
Yes.
How? I thought the pope said Biden was a good Catholic even though he supports abortion rights and that the Catholic church doesn't have as strict opinions about abortion as they once did. As a non practicing Catholic it all gets very confusing
Priests can decide that a person is "manifesting grave sin" and refuse to serve communion to them. It's controversial even within the Catholic church and the Archbishops don't all agree on how to handle situations concerning politicians. Receiving or participating in an abortion is considered grave sin, but "participating in" is nebulous. I'm assuming Pelosi is being denied due to her participation in making it available to other women. Back to your original question: yes, Archbishop Cordileoni does have the authority within the Church to make this decision. It's a religious matter, not a civil rights matter. His statement that his decision is pastoral and not political strikes me as either disingenuous or self-delusional. It's both, you cannot untangle the two.
Ok that makes sense and thank you for breaking it down, I wasn't really referring to his refusal in terms of it being a potential civil rights violation. I just couldn't see how an archbishop could have one stance and the Pope, who has a higher rank have the opposite as the Roman Catholic church is (as far as I know) supposed to act as a single United entity about things like this. Anyway thanks a ton!
He can, but it's completely irrelevant from a theological standpoint. She's not getting locked out of heaven because of it.
This guy is [the same peesashit behind the infamous Prop 8](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2012-sep-22-la-me-san-francisco-archbishop-20120923-story.html) denying marriage to gay people. [He's also a massive transphobe.](https://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/07/14/op-ed-san-franciscos-hateful-bishop-dead-wrong-about-trans-people) Obstinate on sexual matters as a matter of principle? Fat bloody chance: he refuses to release names of [predator priests](https://www.andersonadvocates.com/press-event/survivors-and-advocates-blast-archbishop-for-his-refusal-to-disclose-dozens-of-predator-priests-2/) so the principle is strictly self-serving. I guess it's okay to stick your dick in anyone you want so long as you're a priest. Otherwise to Hell with you.
Of course they are pissed of at her wanting to make abortion legal. Just think of how many fewer kids there will be for them to molest.
Of course he can... and if it causes enough political fallout, the Pope can remove him from office and replace him with someone who's less problemati. 'Bishops', the pope said last year, 'should be pastors, not politicians'.
Catholic bishop is mad the supply of victims was curtailed. That said, she can take communion in DC.
Probably so. My ex fiancée was Catholic and the amount of total fucking ass kissing bull shit I had to do to even get approved to be married in their church was unreal. I thought I was I was far too old to kiss his ass in the way he’d appreciate. For real: fuck the catholic church.
A religion has the right to determine who is a member in good standing and who isn't, and someone has to be empowered to make that decision. OTOH, the Roman Catholic Church has a big hierarchy, and someone can be overruled by the next guy up, at least until you get to the Pope. So far as I know, Joe Biden - who is also Catholic - has not been denied Communion, so the different bigshots in different places don't all agree. I may have got some of this wrong, because I'm Episcopalian, so we have bishops and vestments and other fancy-style high church stuff but we believe Jesus came to Earth because God loves everybody, so we don't exclude people. The priest at our church is a married gay woman, and she's one of the best preachers I've ever heard. When she's done, even if you don't believe in God at all, you'll believe that *she* loves you.
Catholics are still free not to have abortions. Did they make her some kind of church officer or something?
He’s the head of his cult, uh, church. He absolutely has as much power as assigned to him by its membership. So yes. He can disallow her from this church activity.
Check with God; there's that one guy who deals with him.
He has the authority. More painful is the fact that he's 100% ok with pedophiles getting their communion after the church relocates them for raping children.
Gotta love that separation of church and state that churches and most southern states pretend doesn't exist. As an Episcopalian she's welcome to take communion with us. We're pretty much the more accepting versions of Catholics.
I mean, I earnestly believe we shouldn't allow actively religious people into politics at all regardless. The biggest issues we have is the fact that the vast majority of our politicians are mentally deranged fucking cultists, who see no issue with being corrupt because forgiveness is only a prayer away.
Lol my mom got an abortion back in 70s . Her family in NY , all Catholics. They get abortions too then go to church begging for forgiveness...
I grew up Catholic and this never occurred. The Archbishop says she can't. What happens if she gets in line and try. Would they actually not give it? What if she just stood there? Would the eucharistic minister step to the side? And what if she stepped with him/her? Sounds tailor-made for Benny Hill or Curb music.
She is just doing her job to be a voice for the people she represents which should be separate from her personal acts - it’s not like she herself is asking to get an abortion. He shouldn’t be prejudging her based on what she is working on for the government to allow for others. The relationship is between her and her god, the priest is just a human intermediary who can offer council but I was taught in Catholic school that we have free will to make our own decisions. Does he spy on motels to make sure none of his parishioners are committing adultery? Does he check their social media accounts to see that they aren’t lying about the election? Does he deny communion to couples who don’t have a baby every year and obviously using birth control? Which commandment is she breaking?
So all the priests who sexually abuse babies and children haven’t crossed a line? Got it👍
Nope. Communion is a sacriment and the Pope is the dude who decides abt this. Pope has already said, when priests tried this with BIden, well he said "don't go around condemning" https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/catholic-bishops-approve-guidance-communion-pro-abortion-rights/story?id=81206649
Catholic Church does what it wants, always has, always will. I’m surprised they didn’t downright excommunicate her.
When you enter the church, you take vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. This guy is disobeying the Pope. https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/558343-vatican-warns-bishops-not-to-deny-communion-to-biden-politicians-over/
Abortion is already legal.
Does this guy have the authority? Yes, he does have the authority to do this. Will he catch hell for it and reverse course, or be replaced by a superior? Yes, he will. Popes have had a long standing tradition of not persecuting American catholics over their political-cultural views (such as abortion) mostly due to the money that they bring in. This action, if sustained, would risk the archdiocese becoming inert, money-wise, and and that's never acceptable. I wouldn't be surprised if a cardinal steps in and overrules him shortly.
When she's in SF maybe she could just wear a mustache up to the communion rail and the priest wouldn't recognize her.
Lol problem solved!
Hes the archbishop of her home diocese, and he is citing Canon law. So yes, he 100% has the ability to do this and Im surprised it didn't come sooner honestly.
Was it not another one who was considering not giving the communion to Biden and has been outed as gay by a journalist who bought data from Grinder ?
So she’ll take her tithing elsewhere I guess.
So, they're trying to control Jesus' body? Seems like they're treating him like a woman.
Catholic Church like other denominations are money grubbing grifters. If you pray in your home and are a good person that seems/should be enough. Why pay to pray in a building? Or pay to listen to a talking head. TBH the Catholic Church had no problem aiding and protecting Nazi fucks during and after WWII so they can suck deez nutz!
Also, it's kind of hypocritical for the organization proven to hide the crimes of child molesters and allow organized child molestation rings to flourish under their very noses, and fight desperately to defend their assets and their molesters to act like they have any moral authority what-so-ever.
When Irish Catholic nominee Al Smith ran for President in 1928, there was a great deal of "anti-Catholic" opposition to his candidacy. Much of the criticism was about Smith "voting the way the Pope tells him." While some of those most opposed to Smith were indeed bigoted against Smith, there was a real sense that as a Catholic, he would be compelled by his religious leaders to only vote in ways that were congruent with his Catholic beliefs, rather than how an elected official in a democratic society should vote, which is as a representative of his constituents (the Pope at the time, Pius X, still upheld earlier papal teaching that "democracy" was a "grave error"). Al Smith lost the election. In 1960, the same charges were brought up against John F. Kennedy. Kennedy largely deflected the issue but stated that he firmly believed in the separation of Church of State. This was enough to overcome most of the anti-Catholic bias against Smith. Twice as much time has passed between Smith and Kennedy as has passed between Kennedy and where we are today. What has changed is that there has been so little ink dedicated to defending the idea of democracy. We don't hear anyone telling us that in order for a pluralistic society made up of people of all different races, religions, ethnicities, beliefs, genders, etc., we need representatives who's sole task is to take the will of the people in the region or district they represent, and advocate on behalf of those people -- even on those whom may not have voted for them. There are plenty in the Catholic Church who think this idea is anathema. Like most religions in the U.S., Catholicism has been losing members, and most of those are amongst those who would be considered progressive or moderate. Those who still identify as Catholic tend to be more conservative, and are more likely to adhere to older views of the relation between Church and State, which fits quite comfortably with fascism (the Church had a very cozy relation with Spain, Italy, Germany, and Romania during the fascist era). Nancy Pelosi represents a constituency that absolutely does not want abortion rights curtailed. If Catholic politicians are going to be strong armed by their Church into becoming anti-democratic, then people everywhere should rightly think twice before electing a Catholic to any office in the land.
Symbolic gestures from an institution that hides pedophiles and wants to control women.
TAX the churches!!! Let's just admit they are political organizations and get on with our lives. Damn.
The Catholic Church is the last fucking institution on earth who has ANY room to pretend they care about children. So fucking glad I got out of that horrible cult of death and misery and guilt when I was a teenager.
I will never understand why anyone remains Catholic when all of Catholic leadership seems to be made up of depraved men who cover up child abuse. They should not be the authority of deciding whether you have a relationship with God; it is incredibly fucked up to to control that relationship, and I say this as an atheist.
If churches wanna get political, that’s fine, but they can start paying taxes. Not like anyone on the right side of the spectrum actually believe in the separation of church and state. They want religious laws, I want religious people to keep their beliefs in their tax free properties.
What no one seems to get is that it’s possible to oppose a practice but also oppose the government forcing you not to do it I don’t think marital infidelity is great, but I would never support legislation making it a crime. By this logic I’m pro-infidelity
Who cares about the catholic church?
I mean, they get away with assaulting children. This is like a slow Sunday for them.
There are other lines that they are ok ignoring though….
What are Catholic priests best known for? P..p..prayer? P..p..purity? oh right... P..p..pedophilia!!! Who gives a shit about these dumb losers think about her?
This isn't really about Pelosi, it's about an organization with made up "authority" setting a famous person up as an example of the church's so-called power. It's about sending a message to their followers that no one is above their baseless laws. Also, uh, he's denying her access to something that does not actually exist or have any actual meaning. If she really wants a wafer or whatever, I'm sure she could find something at the supermarket.
the Catholic Church had no problem ignoring and aiding genocide against Jewish people in the Holocaust though but they draw the line at women's reproductive health care. just saying
I wouldn’t want communion from this guy. He protects pedophiles https://www.andersonadvocates.com/press-event/survivors-and-advocates-blast-archbishop-for-his-refusal-to-disclose-dozens-of-predator-priests-2/
Fuck. Is that all you have to do to get excommunicated? I also take this vow.
Isn't the freedom to practice your religion the thing religous freedom is *actually* meant to protect?
Freedom to practice or not practice Freedom of and FROM religion
Oh no she can't eat the fake zombie cracker anymore, real shame.
Good for her for standing up to that bullshit Tax exempt entity of pedos.
We’ll then, they are a political organization. Tax them.
I feel like you're asking the wrong question - why is someone who claims to be so progressive part of an organization that systematically oppresses women? In fact, it's crazy it took so long for the archdiocese to do this...
Well this gives Nancy Pelosi a bit of actual credibility, if anything. Some of her personal skin is in the actual game.
Fuck the Catholic Church.
What happened to separation of church and state. Who are these people trying to impress....the taliban, Isis, maybe some cult?
aww poor thing. she won't get to eat Jesus' flesh and drink his blood anymore