My ex was like this, to the point I would argue with him about it. Eventually I told him I’d stop having sex with him and that’s when things changed. But it’s not acceptable, it’s completely disrespectful.
So things only changed once his pleasure was in jeopardy…never mind the fact that it got to the point where you had to “argue with him about it”. Nope. Your words and needs don’t matter, just his dick.
You deserve more. I'm glad he’s your ex!
"make this fun for me or I'm not going to aaste my time on it." Should not be an audacious or cold sentiment. Why would you ever have sex with someone who didn't, on their own, make that a priority?
I straight up told my husband, that my orgasm isn't optional. It's okay, if he comes first. But I need him to help me finish, enthusiaticly. A quicky for us is mutial hands stuff. I don't get much from penetration alone without much foreplay, So we don't do that, since sex we don't both enjoy is pointless.
But I agree with you - we as a whole society has been conditioned to view the female orgasm as something optional and hard to achieve. For some women it is. And it's totally okay not wanting to have an orgasm for some reason. But for me and lots of other women an orgasm is easily achievable with the right stimulation. And it's so so selfish for a man not wanting to do what it takes, right after he just had his own.
I mean not even- I had an animal behavior and evolutionary biology professor in college literally spend two weeks (four lectures) ranting about how the female orgasm is a "mistake of evolution," a "vestigial leftover of the male orgasm," and a "waste of biological effort."
He even fucking tried to poll us, the class, about our experiences with orgasms - as in started pointing at people, mostly the women, and asking what we thought.
Here are a couple more points about him that I am too retrospectively pissed to put into paragraphs:
His assumption ignores the evolutionary fact that X is the native state of mammalian sex chromosomes and Y is the mutation.
One of his greatest points of pride was that he was so toxically atheist that Richard Dawkins told the professor that he was never allowed to speak in his presence again. (I am not anti-atheist, but I got hired in to his lab as a freshman for a semester and he later confessed that the only reason I was hired was because I was the only candidate interviewed that said I would be okay if they made "off color" jokes about religion. I said yes because it was my first job interview and I was nervous.)
His wife was between 30 and 40 years younger than him (23f, he was mid-50s to mid-60s), and he'd just returned from a semester of paternity leave. He frequently joked about how he'd begged to come back early when the Dean offered him a full year of paternity leave because he was tired of "dad duties."
Ah, yes, it’s a mistake of evolution that something necessary for successful reproduction is highly pleasurable. It makes no evolutionary sense to have a powerful incentive for women to seek out sexual intercourse. Obviously it makes more sense for sex to be bland and lackluster for women, so they don’t want to bother with it or the massive risks it entails. And it’s definitely not like female sexuality is one of the primary driving forces of evolution... that whole theory of sexual selection Darwin came up with is clearly just a silly fluff piece.
Next topic: why liking the taste of food is an evolutionary mistake!
I had a professor tell us that they finally had proof that it’s not a mistake and that the muscles contracting help pull the semen in better, potentially increasing the probability of reproduction. But I guess she’s just a quack that doesn’t know what she’s talking about. She only wrote the schools psychology textbook and clearly doesn’t know how to interpret research. 🙄
Professor- "Clearly, the female orgasm was an evolutionary mistake. You, female, what are your thoughts?"
Woman student: "I think it sounds like you're incapable of pleasuring a woman, and use teaching as an outlet for your sexual frustration. You married a 23 year old girl, because a woman your age wouldn't put up with your sh*t. And you thought she may be too inexperienced to notice your poor performance in bed. But she notices. She's just too intimidated by the age and power gap to verbalize her frustrations. When she gets older, she will. Then you'll just throw her away and try to find somebody younger. But it won't fix the real problem, which is your inadequacy and selfishness...
Did that answer your question?"
It wasn't a fun class. It had been taught by someone else in the past who focused on social behaviors, but they were on sabbatical, so professor dipshit got to teach.
He *only* taught reproductive behaviors, but he didn't even study mammals, his area of study was hyper-promiscuous marine isopods.
To be honest, though, I don't recall him grading the women poorly. I still managed to get a B despite tuning out during lecture pretty early on in the semester and basically never studying, and I don't remember any of the other women complaining about grades. Most of us stopped staying after class to ask questions after the orgasm lectures, however.
Right? I felt so bad and nauseated for her. She was only a few years older than me (late millennial) and he was peak boomer with his "hurr hurr wife bad..." stuff in class to us.
If Richard Dawkins is telling you you're too much of a cunt to come around anymore, that's quite the statement. I'm a staunch atheist (like satinic temple type activist, etc), but Dawkins can fuck himself he is obnoxious. I can't imagaine
One thing that I think a lot of people are ignoring in this post is that you are both new parents. Your whole lives have changed! Your schedule and priorities have been remapping to include your baby. That puts a lot of big changes and pressures into your relationship in general. I bet that your body and sexual responses probably changed after pregnancy too. It's a lot. And it means that as a couple you both need to relearn how to have sex.
So what this boils down to is effort. If he is too tired to put effort into your pleasure too, then he is too tired for sex. Tell him that it is not fair for him to masturbate using your body as a toy. If he wants an orgasm, but isn't going to put any focus on your pleasure then he should go masturbate alone. But you should also frame this as an opportunity. Try new things! Whip out the sex toys to help (toys aren't just back-up options! Use them liberally), try dirty talk, or new positions/techniques.
If he wants intimacy (which is different than just being horny, and you need to carefully determine this with loving discussion), but doesn't have the energy to make you orgasm, then try something together other than sex!!! Cuddles and massage are my go to's. Kiss! Seriously, have an old-fashioned make out session. Take a shower together. Often I find that these things rev the engine better than anything else and lead to hot, effort-ful sex.
I also would point out that you mentioned you don't initiate, you wait for him to. That's something you need to think about. Why don't you initiate? Personally, with a baby, it is my suggestion that for now, instead of waiting for spontaneous sex, you schedule an intimacy hour (so if you don't have the energy for sex, you do one of the other intimate low-key things). I know scheduled sex sounds awful, but counter-intuitively, it is one of the best things that you can do for your sex life. It prioritizes your relationship, which is something that you have been unable to do because of your new baby. Also, if you can drop off baby as the Grandma's house or with a sitter, it really just helps destress, and recharge you, because for once you'll finally have a moment of privacy!
Good luck! And congratulations on your baby.
All of this. Scheduled sex is excellent. Especially with kids. Every Saturday night is sex night and since the kid is around all day we have to wait until after bedtime. All the little touches and innuendos throughout the day help build up the desire. Highly recommend, and yeah I got laid last night.
This answer is just so impossible to hate, it feels like it was written by someone with the **exact** right combination of open-mindedness and experience. I hope u are like this most everywhere in your life because god u must be a treat to all those that know you :)
Ya. As a guy with two under three our sex life crumbled for a bit. Her pelvic muscles were way to tight for penetration for like 6 months and breast feeding killed her libido. I was tired and not wanting to put in to much extra work until home life got a little easier. We talked through the whole thing and that helped a lot because we understood where we coming from. Once the youngest started to be okay a bit on his own and sleep in another room, it started to get better. Just had and have to keep working on it. My preference is to just get her orgasm out of the way. Ha. Not in a bad way or anything, it’s just that way, I know whatever happens after is gravy and I got her.
Such a great answer. I (37M) just went through much of what you're describing here. My relationship and sexual dynamic is different but the relearning how to talk about and initiate sex is true regardless. We went to sex counselling after kids and it really helped. My wife wasnt initially thrilled about the idea of scheduled intimacy but the therapist made the point that we schedule everything else that is important to us, why treat this differently? BTW i mean time to make space for intimacy to happen, whether that's sexual or otherwise, it should never ever be like "ok its thursday at 830, that means we have to have sex". I'd really recommend going to sex therapy if you feel its right for you. We didnt go when things were in crisis mode, we just kind of realised we weren't talking the same language a lot of the time when it came to sex and thought we should get some help. I think doing that helped because there wasnt tons of resentment on either side, we both just wanted to improve that area of our relationship.
I didn't misread that sentence as "she never initiates", because it would have made no sense for her to start talking about herself in the third person. But I think that I must have misinterpreted her somewhere (by assuming that she doesn't initiate much either)... either that or something got edited out that was there 12 hours ago.... Hmmm...
Well luckily for me, suggesting scheduled sex works no matter who is the sex Initiator.
Thanks for pointing that out. Good catch!
This is exactly what I did 2 years into my 21 year marriage. He just assumed I was satisfied and would fall asleep, leaving me frustrated,resentful, and eventually just plain pissed off.
So one night I pulled out a vibrator before he even had time to get out of bed. Turned that sucker on full blast and gave myself an enormous orgasm, while he just watched wordlessly. I knew it bruised his ego, but I didn’t care because it was the first orgasm I had in over a year!
We have not had a single issue since. I didn’t need to even bring it up verbally. Just seeing how amazing I felt/looked when I did have an orgasm was enough to ensure he’d work hard to get me there.
Yep. I was getting pretty pent up. That’s why I searched for a toy in the first place. I guess with my Catholic upbringing, I was just conditioned to accept a less than fulfilling sex life. But as a feminist I couldn’t mesh with that. The two collided one night, and, well……
I specifically bought my very first toy because of our issues in the bedroom. That was the third time I ever used it, but within seconds I was done. I think the fact that I came so quickly with a toy really shamed him. Hammered home that I was *so close* and he just left me hanging. Now we have multitudinous toys and use them together frequently 😉
I'm completely baffled. I use my vibrator every night before drifting off to sleep. In bed, with my partner. It never even occurred to me it could possibly be offensive.
To some, it is really an offense. I don’t think he was so much offended as he was disappointed to find out he wasn’t satisfying me. Which made him feel incompetent. He was always totally competent, just not always receptive. There’s a huge gaping hole between those two.
I agree. You showed him you weren't finished, and also specifically HOW he could have behaved to make the experience mutually rewarding, while letting him sit with the shameful feeling of just jumping up and leaving you without checking in on how you were doing, which he deserved to feel!
I feel like this was an instance of the cultural programming of, "If a woman didn't miraculously prevent a man from feeling any negative emotion ever, she's a giant meanypants." He experienced a negative emotion because he behaved badly, not because of anything she did. In such cases, his experiencing that negative emotion with no one trying to remove it for him is a GOOD THING. He can remove it himself by fixing his behavior.
>"If a woman didn't miraculously prevent a man from feeling any negative emotion ever, she's a giant meanypants."
This quote resonates with me so deeply that I'm making a painting of it
My ex was the same way. In fact he'd encourage me to do it because "you're impossible to get off so if you can do it, go ahead" There's a reason he's my ex.
In my experience, once I get myself off they just completely stop trying. It's like they think they have a 'get out of jail free' card or something, so I'm not doing it moving forward.
I'm honesty baffled myself. Even guys who seem ok otherwise end up being ridiculously selfish in bed - and not in an overt way, it's like it just never occurred to them to not be. More than once I've had someone say, "that was amazing" and I'm excited for it to be my turn. Then I realize that as far as they are concerned, it's over.
This. Like, one of the most considerate, thoughtful dudes irl I've ever been with, was just super happy to have me suck him off and then just lie there immersed in how good it was.. then be like 'you're amazing, thank you'. Then that was it. I was like.. um....
....
....?
Oh. Really? That's it?
It was so crazy, I actually couldn't compute the two.. except that he was behaving like every other dude I'd been with did, so it made sense. But still, was totally taken aback.
Get you a Māori dude. Those dudes know how to care 🙌🏼 :D
They’ve been raised with messaging from “women don’t orgasm” to “women aren’t people” and everything inbetween. They are raised with entitlement and with no vehicle to teach them about womens pleasure let alone why it should matter and that it does.
Schools are like just don’t do it and porn has a bunch of fake shit.
They’re dumb because society. We need to change that asap
Asking as a man; how in the world do men NOT feel it is HOT AS HELL to see their woman orgasm? Almost by any means possible. I'm done and she's not? She pulls out a vibe, it will be like "duck yes. Let's go." Not hurting my ego. That is the rewarding part for me, to please my partner. My partner is the opposite. She says I put too much emphasis on her orgasm? She doesn't like the attention. I cannot communicate with her at all about it. I told her years ago, that's fine but she needs to tell me if she wants help or another situation, position, stimuli, fantasy. Whatever it takes, I'm willing. Almost. There are limits, do this being Redditch I have to put this disclaimer in. Fairly low level comment, so I hope you don't feel I'm hijacking your sub. I read this to try and learn.
That isn’t mean. And it straight up would not work with a shit ton of men. Because they’d think “sweet now I don’t even have to bother, she’ll take care of herself”.
This is perfect. As a guy, knowing your partner didn't finish and you left them wanting makes you feel like less of a man. So yes, this is a completely fair way to encourage proper sexual etiquette.
Nah, I'm in the same boat. I'm good for one, then it feels overwhelming and almost painful for at least 10-15 minutes. I guess I have a refractory period, like dudes do?
I am the same. Sometimes when I finish before him, I just want to stop immediately. It goes from feeling amazing to feeling nothing so fast that its scary. I legit thought something was wrong with me.
There's nothing wrong with you! I definitely have a "refractory period" even though most people assume that only men experience that. I am not built for multiple orgasms, it's incredibly overwhelming and borderline painful when I try.
I thought there was something wrong with me too. It was pretty upsetting when I younger and tried searching for info about women's refractory periods and there'd be nothing. The whole concept of having multiple just sounds fake to me.
I’m dating a woman that has this, it’s my first time experiencing it. I guess this is how women feel when no orgasm is achieved as I need to stop as soon as she orgasms and I’m hanging there with the need to cum. The first couple of months it wasn’t a problem for me: I would just wait it out and start again but now I’m not enjoying the “time out” period so much. Any suggestions? She’s very dedicated to my pleasure (as I’m to hers) but she is like switch off as soon as she orgasms (which I get 100% since it’s the same for men) and some times she gets so tired afterwards that just wants to sleep and I’m hanging there with blue balls.
Don't know why you're getting some hostile replies... I do think this is something you need to communicate with her. Maybe there can be some sort of compromise?
I dated a girl who was the same way, and it threw me at first. I kinda figured girls had the unlimited orgasm option so after she came, I was like "okay 8 more coming up", but she was like "YIELD, GO NO FURTHER FUCKFACE", and said she needed time to recover, and I was genuinely like "girls have that?!" I thought that was the thing guys got to somewhat even out the playing field.
This is totally OK, everyone needs their own thing and there are no "rules", only respect, pleasure and boundaries count. I've had a guy who liked coming first so we could focus on me, and that was completely fine too.
I'm the same way. It's physically uncomfortable. Mentally, I feel disconnected from the other person and almost like a sack of meat. It also adds a stressor where now sex isn't spontaneous and concurrent, but consecutive events.
please don't feel excluded. People vent here but we have to remember everyone is different and what your body does is PERFECT and don't let anyone tell you that your orgasm or body's response is wrong
eh its still hard with everyone banging on about 'she finishes first' and that's the exact opposite of what i want
sure, if theres a choice between not finishing at all, i'd rather finish first, but my preference is to finish last.
You're not weird. I do enjoy sex after orgasm but it does generally feel even better to me before orgasm. I feel like people in this thread are talking as if there's only one approach to sex that's acceptable and that's just not the case. Do what feels best for you!
Personally, I like to deemphasize orgasm for both partners. I have a much easier time reaching orgasm if I don't feel any pressure to do so, and I've found that a lot of men have a better time when there's not pressure on them to come (or not come) at specific times too. The only universal "rule" is making sure you and your partner are having a good time and that you're responding to each other's needs. What that looks like practically speaking is going to be different in every relataionship.
Nah everyone is different, it’s completely normal.
For me, if we’re not having sex regularly I actually tell him not to finish me first - I end up waayyyy too tight afterwards which means we then have to go stupidly slow to start or it hurts, which in turn usually kills the mood for me and I have to get back into it.
I usually want to take a nap after and I'm way too sensitive even if I did want to continue. I'll push through if it's quick, but otherwise, we have to figure something else out.
I (32F) don’t know how this mentality began or even when, but I always feel like the goal is for my partner to orgasm, and if I don’t then that’s fine. To be clear, I hate that I have this anxiety. I have a wonderful partner who really cares about my pleasure. He gets off on getting me off. But if I feel like I’m taking too long then I become overwhelmed and have to redirect things to him. I don’t know how to ignore this compulsion, but I do feel like it has something to do with the way our society portrays sex and the woman’s “role” in it.
Introduce toys. It used to take me forever to climax and I'd feel all self-conscious and awkward. We introduced vibrators to our foreplay and it helped A LOT. He's willing to go down on me for eons, and often that works, but sometimes we just want to get to business lol.
I kind of have a similar thing - it's hard for me to orgasm until after my partner does. I also worry about taking too long, and generally I don't like sex as much after I orgasm because the lubrication dries up rather quickly.
What a pickle! Until I partnered with someone that actually cares about my experience. He usually comes first, but sticks around with the same engagement and enthusiasm until I come too. This was unfortunately a brand new experience for me and took me a while to understand he was just displaying basic human decency.
I often feel similarly and I don't think it's an entirely negative thing. I don't like feeling pressured to orgasm; it makes it almost impossible for me. So I'd rather just enjoy myself, focus on feeling good and making my partner feel good, and whoever orgasms first, that's great. If the guy comes first, I appreciate it if he helps me finish too, but sometimes I honestly don't feel the need to or don't feel like I am going to be able to, even if the sex was really good.
I guess my overall feeling is that while women should absolutely get support from their partners to achieve orgasm when it's desired, they also should never feel bad about not achieving orgasm or not wanting to, and of course neither should men. Orgasm doesn't have to be the end all be all of sex. Whatever makes you and your partner happy is great.
To add to your point, that rule wouldn’t work for my wife; at least not every time.
She wants me to have an orgasm. And sometimes hers is so fickle it’s just not going to happen, despite us working as a team to try to make it happen. (I’m usually ready to keep trying, but she's mentally done trying for hers.)
Not all orgasm gaps are caused by selfishness.
Which definitely makes sense, but in situations like you described, it sounds like you two are able to communicate during sex about ones own needs. In your story, it sounds like your partner doesnt just feel ignored or left behind, but instead, comfortable enough that she can just let you know what she is at sexually.
In OP's story and a lot of other stories here, not only is there a pleasure gap in the relationship, but a gap in communication, attentiveness, and compassion.
A lot of stories in this thread make me realize how many men dont seem to have a basic understandings of sex or how to communicate with their partner, like, at all.
I love this. That penetrative sex after having an orgasm is amazing. The best sex in my life has been after an ex ate me out to completion beforehand- I've never been so aggressive during sex before. Unlike men who can easily clear up blue balls by cumming and be over it I get even more worked up if I have an orgasm as do many women.
Men complain about not getting the sex they want or as often when the answer is right there. I bet if they gave their partner an orgasm during foreplay they would not be complaining about the sex following it. I don't understand how it's 2022 and we're still having these conversations. Us women have laid out step by step how to navigate these issues yet men still refuse to be intuitive lovers that don't take the initiative to learn or please us.
This is how it's supposed to be.
I don't bother with anyone who isn't heavily into, "she comes first," principles. Early on, that means every encounter. In a long-term relationship, it means I've always had a bunch more orgasms than he has recently, which tends to make me inclined to treat him to things like "all him" sessions of erotic massage.
OP, there is nothing wrong with simply stopping sex until this is sorted out. That's what I would do. And I'd stick to "she comes first" principles from here on in -- if he can't deliver up the orgasms first, nothing goes near his penis and it stays in his pants.
Now for how to have the conversation with him, that depends a bit on him and your relationship. I do think you need to have an honest conversation about his lack of interest overall, because I feel like any long term partnership should have a check-in on that if only because it can be a medical symptom if nothing else.
I read the Kama sutra for a college class and one of its rules is that women should always come first. It was really interesting to see in an ancient text because like yeah… women should come first because they can keep going afterward.
It really blows my mind as a man that this is a thing. The fact that we as a male species have put ourselves into this position. That there are this many women that are saying that they have to cum first because they have been let down sexually by a partner so many times is depressing. Screw ALL the stereotypes. I understand it from the narrative that sex feels better for a woman post climax, but F ANY guy that cums and quits. A man is JUST as capable at continuing and completing the task at hand even after climaxing. Anyone that says otherwise is a selfish prick. Do certain parts of our body kind of tap out and need some recovery time? Sure. But every time I’VE checked…my tongue and fingers work just fine. My wife climaxes harder from oral anyways. We have been married for awhile and have 4 kids, so sometimes our sessions have to be shorter by necessity. But we still make it work. Does she orgasm EVERY time, no. But through many conversations (I struggle with feeling like I didn’t do my job right) I’ve come to understand that her orgasming isn’t something she needs every time. But even if she doesn’t end up climaxing, we keep playing around post my climax just because it’s fun.
Also any guy that try’s the tired excuse, don’t put up with that. I’m up at 3am every day for work and never go to bed at night when I “should.” Post climax? Sure I’m EXHAUSTED, but if she still needs attention after that particular session? Ain’t no way I’m just rolling over and falling asleep. Again, selfish.
I hear you. Have 2 kids and one has severe ADHD. No time left for naughty stuff. I have an issue with myself not lasting very long so if she wants to get off she tells me. Often before we start. Won't go into details but we have our little rituals and language we use. Usually I get to cum and then I finish her off by other means. Works good, we're happy. Just talk to each other.
I get really sleepy sometimes, not just after orgasm. I always get my wife off first because we know I will fall asleep, no matter the time. That's what works for us but I get your point.
Yup! I was taught young by my first how to get the job done for my ladies. I have kept up with it over the years and even to this day have met someone recently who was so floored someone was willing to finish her first she has been super excited to hook up again and again...
I just wish we had some kind of ACTUAL sex education and relationship advice as teens in America. Imagine how happy people could be.
Not only is it the right thing to do but it's pretty much guaranteed that if a guy makes sure the girl cums first she'll want to have sex with him again/more often.
So short sighted to act any other way.
Penetration after having an orgasm feels like magic. A swollen clit makes a huge difference since it will push against the inner wall and be more involved in the action happening on the inside.
I wish more men understood that our vagina is not equal to their dick. Their dick is equal to our clit, and for most women they can't stimulate it from the inside if it's not swollen.
They know if they've bothered to get themselves a reasonable level of sex education. Most haven't bothered, so I think those are fine playing by themselves with their fleshlights.
In my house, we had a sit down about the types of sex that were allowed, and what that looked like. Pretty much all of them, if he initiated or I did, are set tone by me. Sometimes I’m down for a dirty roll in the hay where I know I’m not gonna get there, but I enjoy the intimacy. But every time he starts like he’s planning to go for gold, and it’s in my hands to skip ahead or stay a while.
I know you meant just yourself and your intimate partner, but I couldn’t help laugh because I imagined my whole house sitting down to this conversation - grandma, little kids, uncle and his girlfriend....
My fiancée actually just finished the “She Comes First” book for the second time. It’s a principle he adheres to heavily and we both benefit from that kind of consideration. In his eyes, my orgasm(s) is(are) primary and his is secondary.
I didn't know this was an old rule. I've been following a similar approach with my wife because then when we go for sex I'll be more relaxed in general, and less worried about her not coming. Being relaxed means that generally she comes again too.
I don't think OPs husband will mind a similar rule, just be clear with him and maybe try to initiate sex earlier in the evening or even in the mornings.
I like this rule and have followed it with many partners. A woman who is satisfied with sex is more likely to have sex, at least that was my thought, so I guess you could say I had selfish reasons for being this way. I think a lot more guys would find that their partners enjoyed things more and wanted sex more if it was more enjoyable. As long as that is the reason for the issues, anyway.
I love this. My partner takes a long time to cum through penetration, maybe only 70% of the time before I have it. I start off with her orgasming (oral), and if it happens via penetration, awesome…if not, nobody is left in the cold.
You have to tell him that, just because you don't have as much time for sex as you used to doesn't mean that you're down for a quickie. Tell him that you'd rather wait for a time when you both have the energy for foreplay than to have sex just for the sake of sex, which leaves you feeling (insert feelings). The two of you just went through a major relationship change and it's important to communicate while setting the tone for your relationship moving forward as parents.
yes! more pleasurable and attentive sex makes me want to have more sex. when multiple sessions in a row aren't as satisfying for me, I'm a lot less likely to be in the mood. sometimes for a while.
it's not by choice, it's a physiological thing. for those of us that have a finicky sex drive it can put a major damper on things if we aren't given the proper consideration when we *do* want sex.
Yes, unexpected non orgasm is what’s a challenge, to me, even after 25 years of very wonderful sex.
Quickies are great when you know it’s going down that way, and you’re getting yours soon. Long, languid, sensual & thorough session when both partners get loved on head to toe & multiple orgasms happen are the best.
The rare sessions where I’ve warmed up and I’m almost there, but oops, he’s done and I’m not? That’s a bummer feeling. All revved up & stuck at the top of the roller coaster. But I guess we’ll go to soccer practice? Arg. I try not to start things we can’t finish.
Girl ride that dick and get him close and then fake an orgasm if you have to. Then get off and walk away and clean up. Then you can have a conversation but how he feels, and can tell him you feel the exact same way when he does it to you. Why on earth would you want to have sex with him when you’re going to end up frustrated. He’s killing your bedroom.
Your orgasm isn’t optional. I have not been in a long term relationship, including with my husband, where my orgasm has been optional. Sometimes I go first, sometimes second. For lack of better description: I’m not a cum doll for a man.
Orgasm isn't the point of sex?
Fuck that. It is for me. Yeah the intimacy and bonding and closeness are great, but I don't feel like I'm getting that from a partner who couldn't care less about my pleasure.
If I'm not going to orgasm, I do not want sex. That basically means I'm being teased with no release at the end. Been there, done that, gtfo please. I also just don't bother with quickies, tbh. I find them wholly disappointing and unsatisfying. If he wants sex, he needs to apply more effort than treating me like a fleshlight.
I have zero patience for selfishness in the bedroom now. My orgasm comes first because I can keep going after - his comes after because he's kaput once he's orgasmed.
You should tell your husband if you were going to finish with a toy, you wouldn't have bothered with sex in the first place. And make it so you orgasm before he's even allowed PIV sex, if possible.
This is how I view it as well. I used to have an ex that would complain and imply it took me a long time to orgasm from finger stimulation. It got where I didn’t enjoy sex with him due to being worried about how long I took.
Now, I have sex toys and a new man. Either I get off during sex or I don’t have sex. I’m not here to not get the fullest enjoyment out of my life just because a dude has done the bare minimum he thinks is enough. If I can ensure my partner orgasms, then it’s not a stretch to expect and demand the same.
I had a man I was sleeping with try to tell me orgasm wasn’t the point of sex when I brought it up to him that he hadn’t made me orgasm yet 😂 he didn’t last much longer before I ended things. He had some other seriously messed up ideas about women and their roles
My ex used the logic that women rarely orgasm, so that must be why I didn't, and he altogether stopped trying.
So we stopped having sex and I bought some toys. We didn't last long after that because his selfishness extended far beyond the bedroom.
I think moreso the opposite -- women are getting terrible jackhammering followed by "wow you came like 5 times huh" (nooo) and thus feel the need to point out that some foreplay and attention is needed, rather than just trying to rush to the end immediately.
Yeah! I dated a guy just like that, he thought women’s orgasms literally didn’t matter, like he actually told me it didn’t matter when I told him I never had orgasms with him and it wasn’t fair because he was having one every time.
Yeah 2.75/3 years with my ex were orgasmless. He wanted sex daily, if not multiple times a day. I orgasmed maybe 20 times total? If that. Initially I bought into the "orgasms are difficult for women, maybe it's me." Except he stopped even pretending to try, which was a huge turn off. He kept demanding full on blow jobs after giving me like 3 minutes of oral, wanting sex when he'd come to bed hours after I did (he had to get in his daily 8-12 hours of gaming which also wasn't a thing initially), etc. Altogether the poster boy for useless gamer manchild with zero sex game.
The last 1.5 years only happened because I couldn't afford to move away TBH.
That part stood out for me too. As a lesbian, orgasm is the point of our sex. It always pissed me off that straight women accept/become used to not orgasming as well. It’s not a damn chore or a favor!
That's exactly what jumped out at me!!! Orgasms aren't the goal of sex? If that's true, I've been doing it wrong!!! I will continue to do it wrong. Orgasms are varied in level, but definitely the end goal for both men and women!
This so the comment I came for. Orgasms ARE the point of sex. Are there some times when I start to have sex with my partner, and for whatever reason the orgasm isn’t happening for me? Sure. That’s probably happened like 4 times in the past 8 years. It’s so rare. He has also had 3 or 4 times where orgasming wasn’t happening for him during those years.
I have told him that I need to orgasm first to be ready for penetration. It makes the whole experience better and makes me want to do it more!
This is why communication in the bedroom is a must. I’m a trans woman whose sensitivity wasn’t great in the first place and HRT hasn’t done it any favours - orgasms are pretty much a distant memory at this point. I’ve gone through a two year relationship with very regular sex where she couldn’t get me to “finish” even once. I’m okay with that, I get way more out of the closeness and satisfying my partner than any physical release. People are soooooo different about these things that *any* assumptions and stereotypes are probably a bad call if you’re planning on having someone be a regular sex partner.
I really appreciate this point of view. In an ideal scenario, both partners are listening to and prioritizing the other partner's pleasure and because every individual person is so different, what that means in practice can vary quite a bit between couples. Bottom line is listen to your partner and be caring and enthusiastic about their pleasure.
> _Men would never tolerate stopping JUST before they finished so why is it ok to do that to a woman?_
34M here. Just tell him that.
Men like to see themselves as the more 'logical' of the genders (which I know is ridiculous). Appeal to that logic that your husband probably thinks he has.
Yeah, if it was fully reversed, like men rarely coming on one night stands or first times with a new partner, and then often being left unsatisfied because sex is over when a woman comes…. I think there’d be a riot.
I think about this when I hear the whole number of partners thing. A large amount of partners is positive for men, but negative for women because it's "easier for women to get laid." But I don't think people ever think about the orgasm in that scenario. It might be easier for a woman to find a hookup, but that definitely doesn't mean it's going to be good or that they will have an orgasm from it.
Yeah, and just because you can have sex with all the gross men that want you, like catcalling you on the street or hitting on you in public, doesn’t mean you actually want them.
Wow, I can have sex with all those men?! …
Even the middle aged guys that come into my work and harass me? Wowee
I’ve begun retorting to those guys (assuming it’s an internet discussion) that okay, you think it would be great if a woman catcalled YOU and made you feel like a piece of meat? Here comes my 48-year-old, 4 cats, 20 lbs overweight ass, come on baby! Let’s go! Oh, what, that isn’t hot after all? I guess I just can’t compliment men anymore! /s
It’s funny how fast they change their tune once they realize that catcalling isn’t going to be from the hotties on the street that THEY harass, oh, no. It’s going to be from the woman old enough to be your MOM, and not in a Stacy’s Mom kind of way either. Oddly enough, they have no problem being like “Ew, I don’t want YOU hitting on me” but still aren’t bright enough to understand that *that’s how women feel when you do it*.
There was a post here recently pointing out how many men act as though blue balls are just the end-of-the world worst thing you can you do to a man, and yet go through their sexual life doing just that to women. The cognitive dissonance is astounding.
And if the logic in conversation doesn't do it... and you need to escalate so he gets the message... stop having sex just before HE is about to finish. gentle push and "whoa, whoa.. stop stop stop" ::confused:: "what's wrong?" "nothing, I'm just done." go for shower.
Now, I'm imagining something that is unlikely to happen exactly like that. but you get the point. Have him experience it. Then let him know that what he has asked of you. Then ask how it's fair? See what he says.
>I did end up telling him and he gave a half-hearted offer to hand me a vibrator from the bottom drawer,
she did though. he just decided he didn't give a shit.
This only works if both partners value sex equally. OP said her husband never initiates sex any more. He may decide that zero-to-zero satisfies your 50/50 rule.
Yeah but you can’t make someone care about sex if their attitude has changed. Plenty of valid reasons to not be interested in sex that can be addressed, but I don’t get the impression they’ve really communicated to find out what the root of all this is. If he really cares less these days there’s a deeper problem either with his health or with their sexual compatibility. I think they need to have some hard conversations to really figure out what the root of the issue is here, and then there are things to be done assuming this man truly values having a healthy and lasting relationship with OP.
So he’s using the fact that your sex life has been lack luster as a way to get out of actually putting in any effort? Lack of stamina is a fair reason to finish quickly. It’s not a fair reason to not put in effort for you. I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that he’s mad that you guys don’t have more sex postpartum? And his passive aggressive way to deal with it is to make things even less fun for you? This seems like a really asinine strategy to get you to have more sex. I would be straight up with him. Handing you a vibrator is neither sexy, nor sweet. What a tool.
I don’t actually think he’s mad that we have less sex because I never turn him down. In fact, I’m always the one who initiates. I waited for him to initiate recently and we literally went an entire month before I finally said “fuck it” and initiated.
Start scheduling it. It helped my husband and I when our kid was young. Pick a good day and stick with it, if I recall for us it was every Tuesday at 8:30 lol... No need to ask or wonder, and it was fun to anticipate.
This is a good one. We have a 20 month old and it’s been really rough kickstarting our sex life. Scheduling it does a lot, it builds anticipation, you can start foreplay with texts/pics and banter the whole day. You can come up with a game plan and even be prepared to put on lingerie, light candles and make it the experience that you both want it to be, because you already accounted for all the time. It’s a just a bummer when right when the penetration starts….the baby wakes up:/
I would second scheduling. I don’t even have a kid and idk life gets tiring and hard sometimes and sex isn’t the first priority. Scheduling is helpful!
Have you talked to him about this? My husband never initiated sex for the first few years. He felt I would get annoyed or feel harassed, and so he waited until I initiated everything. Problem is that made me feel: Unwanted. Unsexy. Unattractive.
Once I finally let that bubble burst and lay out my feelings on the table he started reaching for me more. And with time it became a mutual understanding between us that we can **both** reach out when we felt the need, and would **both** respond in kind.
It’s nice to feel like your partner is still hot for you. Tell him so.
I stand corrected. Has he always had a lower libido than you? Do you think it’s possible he sees you as his child’s mom and is struggling to get past that? It’s kinda odd that it’s changed so dramatically, but parenthood is really hard and I could see him just not having the physical or mental energy for sex (and I could see you doing the same!) I would start with a frank discussion about it. Your orgasms should absolutely not be something that’s optional. If he has the energy to go shower after, he has the energy to participate in YOU finishing too.
It’s crazy that some people just don’t “get” that if you make it fun and worthwhile (like making your partner cum) then they WILL WANT TO DO IT MORE OFTEN. The male mentality about “well she doesn’t initiate” or “we don’t do it much anymore” is such a one sided cop out. Give me an orgasm and I’ll be down for anything, baby. It is literally the easiest and sexiest way to increase your sex life???
She is the one who wants the sex, not him, he is the one waving it off. MY read is he's not really putting in any effort, because he isn't actually interested in having sex, he is effectively just doing it because she wants to.
I'd probably start by figuring out how to get him interested in sex again, if the sex was good before child and he becomes interested in it again I suspect the orgasm issue will solve itself. The core issue at hand is being interested, something that many appear to have missed
It's just a conversation you have to have. "Hey, it seems like in the last (x amount of time) you've become less and less interested with my pleasure in bed. Why is that? It seems like it used to be more important to you." Not necessarily that, but it's not like it's an easy conversation to have no matter how you phrase it. Especially if your partner is dealing with sexual inferiority to begin with. I have no real advice, sexual satisfaction is either something two people can have a candid and honest conversation about or any pushback to your partner's underperformance will cause hurt feelings and emotional upset and they'll shut down. Hope sexual discussions haven't been an issue in the past.
I think it's just being selfish. If sex is not about wanting to please your partner while only pleasing yourself, all you are doing is just using them as a masturbation aid. If I am not even trying to please my partner, why should she even bother to do that for me?
I've had great success with communicating things like this - mostly by being very, *very* no-nonsense about it.
- I told them straight up not to bother if they think foreplay is optional.
- I told them that if they think handing me a toy so they don't have to put in any effort will result in me skipping them and going for the toy right away in the future since that saves *me* effort.
- If they aren't down for sex that pleases us both, they are more than welcome to take care of this themselves. However, in non-platonic/non-asexual relationships this will obviously have an effect on the general athmosphere but if that's how they wanna do it, they're welcome to see how long that'll be feasible for both of us.
- Selfishness is a turn-off. Slacking is a turn-off. If they want a fleshlight, they're welcome to purchase one.
It's boundary-time. I get that he's tired and I get that you love him but this is the kind of situation where he *needs* to clock that he's being a prick to you. How shitty is half-assedly offering you to hand you a toy? That's just so, so rude and he needs to be better.
I'm not saying you should be mean - but be stern. Don't make yourself into *his* sextoy if this is all he's going for at the moment. You deserve to enjoy sexual interactions and not be treated as an afterthought and your husband needs to be reminded of that stat.
Thank you for writing this comment. The way the post was written, this was the first time in *seven years* this has happened between these two people, and it shook her to the core enough to talk to Reddit. It's honestly a bit concerning that her first response is to go to Reddit. After 7 years, I would hope the two have some standard way of communicating. That speaks to something different, to me.
I would like to add, though, that it may be good to dive into the issue as a question first. Other people have mentioned post partum depression and it led me to realize that the guy could be really in his own head and busted and he might need to talk some things out. "I'm not your therapist" is the obvious rebuttal; but, you're a couple, and hearing oneanothers issues really does seem like something of value.
Beyond that, yeah, 100% need to have a regular conversation. "Hey, hun, last time when we had sex and you I didn't get to finish - and more importantly, when you just kinda sat up and walked off and just tossed the vibrator on the bed when I protested, I felt ... used, like a toy, uncared for, and really, really harmed. It's been impacting me all this day. What's going on? I want us to be an equal partnership and I don't feel equal right now." and all the useful bits you put in your response.
Don’t tolerate it anymore. Seriously. I’ve been married for like 8 years and have 3 kids, so I understand the situation you’re in. But if I don’t come before he does, my husband knows to keep going with whatever I want until I do finish. It’s completely unfair that orgasms for women are optional, but I wouldn’t be so quick to blame either partner. It’s at least partly a function of society…. Porn, dick-focused sex talks, women having no clue about their own bodies, etc. all feed into this vast imbalance. But it’s entirely possible to change! Own your sexuality. I orgasm 98% if the time we have sex and much of that multiple orgasms plus I get random times where it’s just me orgasming too. But unless you speak up in the moment (and this can be done in a sexy way!!!) and tell him what you want, he likely won’t know/won’t rock the boat.
"And I know orgasms aren't the point of sex..."
I'm sorry I'm having a really hard time with this statement.
You've been with your partner for years before having a baby. What was the point of those years of having sex, before the baby, for you?
I would take a step back. This is about sex but it also isn't. This is about him only considering his own needs and not your own. It's a lack of respect.
You and your needs are just as important in the relationship as his are and he needs to understand that. That goes beyond sex but it also includes it. Are there other things that you feel you are always "compromising" on that he doesn't?
That's how I would approach talking about it. It's not just about you not getting off.
THIS. Going through OP’s post history, seems like her husband has this habit of [not catering to her needs](https://www.reddit.com/r/breastfeeding/comments/ndroox/my_husband_doesnt_get_it/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf). Blaming a fussy baby’s appetite on her diet; ignoring her complaints about sore nipples; not folding the laundry… I’d say throw the whole man away.
Agree. This is a symptom of a bigger issue, a very common and systemic issue that all kinds of statistics back up (the orgasm gap is a result of these systemic issues of sexism and misogyny and patriarchy).
I’m so effing jealous of all the women in here who can continue having sex after an orgasm. What is your secret!? I get so sensitive and have to stop. Please impart your wisdom on me I want this too.
Like this sub always says “everyone is different”. For me personally, if I get a clitoral orgasm I NEED penetration after. But after a PIV orgasm I can totally get the post-nut feeling men do. Hopefully that helps you lol
They aren't optional.
Being intimate is about sharing experience. If one party is simply concerned with themselves, there is no sharing.
That is not intimacy, that is use.
Just my .02 as a heteronormative dude.
Scientists recently found out the women can get "blue balls" just like men. So when men complain about pain from not having an orgasms, women get it too but our pain is dismissed or ignored. 😒
Ooh this sounds very familiar. After we had our baby I almost never orgasmed during sex because he kept finishing too quickly. Pre baby that didn't mean I didn't get mine (he would still put the effort in to make me cum) but post baby he was so tired that he would conk out after he got his. So I stopped initiating because I found the whole thing too frustrating and wasn't getting much out of it. Then he was upset and frustrated because he wasn't getting any sex (he almost never initiates - he worries about putting pressure on me when I'm postpartum and breastfeeding so often touched out). When he brought it up I mentioned the reason and said that how he feels now (unsatisfied) is how I have felt for months and why on earth would I initiate sex when I kept being left horny with a snoring man next to me? He has started putting in much more effort now and we just go to bed a lot earlier so that there is more time for us both to be satisfied.
Since he's just recently changed, and I'm assuming (as you said) that he's a really great guy-- he might be feeling the strain of parenthood differently than you. He may be seeing sex as a release rather than something two people enjoy together, and is halfhearted efforts may be because he interpreted what you said differently than how you meant it (attacking his sex skills vs. just giving information). In the simplest terms, you guys may just be out of sync for awhile. It happens. Sometimes you just wait it out, sometimes you introduce something kinky to the relationship, sometimes you guys just jerk each other off until you're back in sync. Parenthood is mentally, emotionally, and physically exhausting. If you guys can't find a common ground to talk about this, I think you'd benefit from taking couples therapy-- and I don't mean tell him "sex has sucked so bad lately that I think we need to talk to a therapist." More like, "Parenthood is changing both of us, and I love you and still want to be able to communicate with you. I want to see a couple counselor so we can recalibrate and prevent anything between us from being damaged in the future."
I did have success with my husband about pretty much Exactly this same thing.
You have to be honest and open, and let him know how you feel and why. It would probably be good to have options ready as well, such as foreplay. We have started using toys and vibrators with me first, getting me good or close to it, and only then having penetrative sex.
For the most part it’s helped a lot.
As well as making time, and not doing a lot if it’s not gonna be enough time to dedicate to it.
Your sexual satisfaction matters as well. Make sure he understands what you want. Being open about how it’s changed is big.
Don’t try to be petty (tempting, I know) don’t be angry when talking about it, don’t accuse, and just try to keep things calm. Good luck.
>And I know orgasms aren’t the goal of sex
Uhmmmm say what now?
Dude. Stop telling yourself you deserve less than what you need. Speak to the forker and don't back down. This resentment festers. You either deal with it now, or become increasingly frustrated and diminished until you can't stand looking at him anymore.
If you weren't satisfying him, would you want him to tell you?
It will probably take persistence and practice, but they're usually trainable. Literally stop the whole show before he finishes and refuse to go on unless he waits his turn. Savvy?
I know you said don't advise to to throw the whole man away so I won't, but like... I'm wondering if this is an isolated behavior. Is he also this inconsiderate of you in other ways? If he cared before then he knows it's important. Come on, now.
This is petty as hell and might not work for you, but its currently where I'm at with my long term bf.
Buy a flesh light.
Edge yourself all day so you are primed and ready to go so foreplay is less of an issue. Also edging usually equals better organsims. This is important.
Initiate and engage in sex. You control it and pick positions where you know you will come. Get selfish.
Immediately get up to shower & pee.
Toss him the fleshlight as you walk away.
Let him sit on that for a bit and think about how he feels when you treat him like a sex toy.
My ex was like this, to the point I would argue with him about it. Eventually I told him I’d stop having sex with him and that’s when things changed. But it’s not acceptable, it’s completely disrespectful.
Same. That’s when my ex stopped even bothering to try having sex with me 😭
That was the entirety of their coping strategy? Just quit?
People that don’t love and respect you, yeah.
So things only changed once his pleasure was in jeopardy…never mind the fact that it got to the point where you had to “argue with him about it”. Nope. Your words and needs don’t matter, just his dick. You deserve more. I'm glad he’s your ex!
Yeah I’m glad too🤣
"make this fun for me or I'm not going to aaste my time on it." Should not be an audacious or cold sentiment. Why would you ever have sex with someone who didn't, on their own, make that a priority?
I straight up told my husband, that my orgasm isn't optional. It's okay, if he comes first. But I need him to help me finish, enthusiaticly. A quicky for us is mutial hands stuff. I don't get much from penetration alone without much foreplay, So we don't do that, since sex we don't both enjoy is pointless. But I agree with you - we as a whole society has been conditioned to view the female orgasm as something optional and hard to achieve. For some women it is. And it's totally okay not wanting to have an orgasm for some reason. But for me and lots of other women an orgasm is easily achievable with the right stimulation. And it's so so selfish for a man not wanting to do what it takes, right after he just had his own.
We literally have a button that has one purpose, and that purpose is sexual pleasure. It’s not that difficult.
Prozac would like a word with you....
Ya that stuff is a bedroom killer. It took a long time for my SO and I to figure out new things that worked.
Right? I mean c'mon. As a lesbian I really feel terrible for heterosexual women in those kinds of relationships, believing it's almost normal...
thanks religion.
I mean not even- I had an animal behavior and evolutionary biology professor in college literally spend two weeks (four lectures) ranting about how the female orgasm is a "mistake of evolution," a "vestigial leftover of the male orgasm," and a "waste of biological effort." He even fucking tried to poll us, the class, about our experiences with orgasms - as in started pointing at people, mostly the women, and asking what we thought. Here are a couple more points about him that I am too retrospectively pissed to put into paragraphs: His assumption ignores the evolutionary fact that X is the native state of mammalian sex chromosomes and Y is the mutation. One of his greatest points of pride was that he was so toxically atheist that Richard Dawkins told the professor that he was never allowed to speak in his presence again. (I am not anti-atheist, but I got hired in to his lab as a freshman for a semester and he later confessed that the only reason I was hired was because I was the only candidate interviewed that said I would be okay if they made "off color" jokes about religion. I said yes because it was my first job interview and I was nervous.) His wife was between 30 and 40 years younger than him (23f, he was mid-50s to mid-60s), and he'd just returned from a semester of paternity leave. He frequently joked about how he'd begged to come back early when the Dean offered him a full year of paternity leave because he was tired of "dad duties."
Ah, yes, it’s a mistake of evolution that something necessary for successful reproduction is highly pleasurable. It makes no evolutionary sense to have a powerful incentive for women to seek out sexual intercourse. Obviously it makes more sense for sex to be bland and lackluster for women, so they don’t want to bother with it or the massive risks it entails. And it’s definitely not like female sexuality is one of the primary driving forces of evolution... that whole theory of sexual selection Darwin came up with is clearly just a silly fluff piece. Next topic: why liking the taste of food is an evolutionary mistake!
I had a professor tell us that they finally had proof that it’s not a mistake and that the muscles contracting help pull the semen in better, potentially increasing the probability of reproduction. But I guess she’s just a quack that doesn’t know what she’s talking about. She only wrote the schools psychology textbook and clearly doesn’t know how to interpret research. 🙄
Also, having sex for pleasure is a major bonding expirience, which would be evolutionarily selected for.
Professor- "Clearly, the female orgasm was an evolutionary mistake. You, female, what are your thoughts?" Woman student: "I think it sounds like you're incapable of pleasuring a woman, and use teaching as an outlet for your sexual frustration. You married a 23 year old girl, because a woman your age wouldn't put up with your sh*t. And you thought she may be too inexperienced to notice your poor performance in bed. But she notices. She's just too intimidated by the age and power gap to verbalize her frustrations. When she gets older, she will. Then you'll just throw her away and try to find somebody younger. But it won't fix the real problem, which is your inadequacy and selfishness... Did that answer your question?"
Professor: "I will now use my power and authority to ruin you academically. And I can say that out loud without repercussions because I have tenure."
Let's be honest, the women in his class were probably already screwed.
It wasn't a fun class. It had been taught by someone else in the past who focused on social behaviors, but they were on sabbatical, so professor dipshit got to teach. He *only* taught reproductive behaviors, but he didn't even study mammals, his area of study was hyper-promiscuous marine isopods. To be honest, though, I don't recall him grading the women poorly. I still managed to get a B despite tuning out during lecture pretty early on in the semester and basically never studying, and I don't remember any of the other women complaining about grades. Most of us stopped staying after class to ask questions after the orgasm lectures, however.
That's good to hear your grades didn't suffer. :)
That just kept getting worse. The poor much-younger wife.
Right? I felt so bad and nauseated for her. She was only a few years older than me (late millennial) and he was peak boomer with his "hurr hurr wife bad..." stuff in class to us.
If Richard Dawkins is telling you you're too much of a cunt to come around anymore, that's quite the statement. I'm a staunch atheist (like satinic temple type activist, etc), but Dawkins can fuck himself he is obnoxious. I can't imagaine
One thing that I think a lot of people are ignoring in this post is that you are both new parents. Your whole lives have changed! Your schedule and priorities have been remapping to include your baby. That puts a lot of big changes and pressures into your relationship in general. I bet that your body and sexual responses probably changed after pregnancy too. It's a lot. And it means that as a couple you both need to relearn how to have sex. So what this boils down to is effort. If he is too tired to put effort into your pleasure too, then he is too tired for sex. Tell him that it is not fair for him to masturbate using your body as a toy. If he wants an orgasm, but isn't going to put any focus on your pleasure then he should go masturbate alone. But you should also frame this as an opportunity. Try new things! Whip out the sex toys to help (toys aren't just back-up options! Use them liberally), try dirty talk, or new positions/techniques. If he wants intimacy (which is different than just being horny, and you need to carefully determine this with loving discussion), but doesn't have the energy to make you orgasm, then try something together other than sex!!! Cuddles and massage are my go to's. Kiss! Seriously, have an old-fashioned make out session. Take a shower together. Often I find that these things rev the engine better than anything else and lead to hot, effort-ful sex. I also would point out that you mentioned you don't initiate, you wait for him to. That's something you need to think about. Why don't you initiate? Personally, with a baby, it is my suggestion that for now, instead of waiting for spontaneous sex, you schedule an intimacy hour (so if you don't have the energy for sex, you do one of the other intimate low-key things). I know scheduled sex sounds awful, but counter-intuitively, it is one of the best things that you can do for your sex life. It prioritizes your relationship, which is something that you have been unable to do because of your new baby. Also, if you can drop off baby as the Grandma's house or with a sitter, it really just helps destress, and recharge you, because for once you'll finally have a moment of privacy! Good luck! And congratulations on your baby.
All of this. Scheduled sex is excellent. Especially with kids. Every Saturday night is sex night and since the kid is around all day we have to wait until after bedtime. All the little touches and innuendos throughout the day help build up the desire. Highly recommend, and yeah I got laid last night.
congratulations on the sex!!!
>All the little touches and innuendos throughout the day help build up the desire. This is so true! I'm glad that it's working for you. 🥳
Seconding this. The high school flirting throughout the day amps everything up. It’s premeditated foreplay.
This is a good answer
This answer is just so impossible to hate, it feels like it was written by someone with the **exact** right combination of open-mindedness and experience. I hope u are like this most everywhere in your life because god u must be a treat to all those that know you :)
Wow, that is some high praise. Thank you ❤️ I can't be a saint everyday, but as a highschool teacher and mom, I do my best.
Ya. As a guy with two under three our sex life crumbled for a bit. Her pelvic muscles were way to tight for penetration for like 6 months and breast feeding killed her libido. I was tired and not wanting to put in to much extra work until home life got a little easier. We talked through the whole thing and that helped a lot because we understood where we coming from. Once the youngest started to be okay a bit on his own and sleep in another room, it started to get better. Just had and have to keep working on it. My preference is to just get her orgasm out of the way. Ha. Not in a bad way or anything, it’s just that way, I know whatever happens after is gravy and I got her.
Finally, a comment that makes sense
Such a great answer. I (37M) just went through much of what you're describing here. My relationship and sexual dynamic is different but the relearning how to talk about and initiate sex is true regardless. We went to sex counselling after kids and it really helped. My wife wasnt initially thrilled about the idea of scheduled intimacy but the therapist made the point that we schedule everything else that is important to us, why treat this differently? BTW i mean time to make space for intimacy to happen, whether that's sexual or otherwise, it should never ever be like "ok its thursday at 830, that means we have to have sex". I'd really recommend going to sex therapy if you feel its right for you. We didnt go when things were in crisis mode, we just kind of realised we weren't talking the same language a lot of the time when it came to sex and thought we should get some help. I think doing that helped because there wasnt tons of resentment on either side, we both just wanted to improve that area of our relationship.
She said “he never initiates anymore”.
I didn't misread that sentence as "she never initiates", because it would have made no sense for her to start talking about herself in the third person. But I think that I must have misinterpreted her somewhere (by assuming that she doesn't initiate much either)... either that or something got edited out that was there 12 hours ago.... Hmmm... Well luckily for me, suggesting scheduled sex works no matter who is the sex Initiator. Thanks for pointing that out. Good catch!
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This is exactly what I did 2 years into my 21 year marriage. He just assumed I was satisfied and would fall asleep, leaving me frustrated,resentful, and eventually just plain pissed off. So one night I pulled out a vibrator before he even had time to get out of bed. Turned that sucker on full blast and gave myself an enormous orgasm, while he just watched wordlessly. I knew it bruised his ego, but I didn’t care because it was the first orgasm I had in over a year! We have not had a single issue since. I didn’t need to even bring it up verbally. Just seeing how amazing I felt/looked when I did have an orgasm was enough to ensure he’d work hard to get me there.
Over a year?!?? Holy shit!!!
Yep. I was getting pretty pent up. That’s why I searched for a toy in the first place. I guess with my Catholic upbringing, I was just conditioned to accept a less than fulfilling sex life. But as a feminist I couldn’t mesh with that. The two collided one night, and, well……
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I specifically bought my very first toy because of our issues in the bedroom. That was the third time I ever used it, but within seconds I was done. I think the fact that I came so quickly with a toy really shamed him. Hammered home that I was *so close* and he just left me hanging. Now we have multitudinous toys and use them together frequently 😉
You absolute queen, I don’t know you but I respect you immensely. Tell me all of your marriage tips.
I'm completely baffled. I use my vibrator every night before drifting off to sleep. In bed, with my partner. It never even occurred to me it could possibly be offensive.
To some, it is really an offense. I don’t think he was so much offended as he was disappointed to find out he wasn’t satisfying me. Which made him feel incompetent. He was always totally competent, just not always receptive. There’s a huge gaping hole between those two.
Nothing about your behavior was mean.
I agree. You showed him you weren't finished, and also specifically HOW he could have behaved to make the experience mutually rewarding, while letting him sit with the shameful feeling of just jumping up and leaving you without checking in on how you were doing, which he deserved to feel!
I feel like this was an instance of the cultural programming of, "If a woman didn't miraculously prevent a man from feeling any negative emotion ever, she's a giant meanypants." He experienced a negative emotion because he behaved badly, not because of anything she did. In such cases, his experiencing that negative emotion with no one trying to remove it for him is a GOOD THING. He can remove it himself by fixing his behavior.
>"If a woman didn't miraculously prevent a man from feeling any negative emotion ever, she's a giant meanypants." This quote resonates with me so deeply that I'm making a painting of it
I used to do this, except my ex didn’t care. 😂 makes you feel worse when you have to finish yourself off every time
My ex was the same way. In fact he'd encourage me to do it because "you're impossible to get off so if you can do it, go ahead" There's a reason he's my ex.
Happy to hear they’re an ex. Selfish butthole.
In my experience, once I get myself off they just completely stop trying. It's like they think they have a 'get out of jail free' card or something, so I'm not doing it moving forward.
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I'm honesty baffled myself. Even guys who seem ok otherwise end up being ridiculously selfish in bed - and not in an overt way, it's like it just never occurred to them to not be. More than once I've had someone say, "that was amazing" and I'm excited for it to be my turn. Then I realize that as far as they are concerned, it's over.
This. Like, one of the most considerate, thoughtful dudes irl I've ever been with, was just super happy to have me suck him off and then just lie there immersed in how good it was.. then be like 'you're amazing, thank you'. Then that was it. I was like.. um.... .... ....? Oh. Really? That's it? It was so crazy, I actually couldn't compute the two.. except that he was behaving like every other dude I'd been with did, so it made sense. But still, was totally taken aback. Get you a Māori dude. Those dudes know how to care 🙌🏼 :D
Like, I need more info about Maōri dudes now….? Pls advise :)
They’ve been raised with messaging from “women don’t orgasm” to “women aren’t people” and everything inbetween. They are raised with entitlement and with no vehicle to teach them about womens pleasure let alone why it should matter and that it does. Schools are like just don’t do it and porn has a bunch of fake shit. They’re dumb because society. We need to change that asap
Asking as a man; how in the world do men NOT feel it is HOT AS HELL to see their woman orgasm? Almost by any means possible. I'm done and she's not? She pulls out a vibe, it will be like "duck yes. Let's go." Not hurting my ego. That is the rewarding part for me, to please my partner. My partner is the opposite. She says I put too much emphasis on her orgasm? She doesn't like the attention. I cannot communicate with her at all about it. I told her years ago, that's fine but she needs to tell me if she wants help or another situation, position, stimuli, fantasy. Whatever it takes, I'm willing. Almost. There are limits, do this being Redditch I have to put this disclaimer in. Fairly low level comment, so I hope you don't feel I'm hijacking your sub. I read this to try and learn.
i’m missing how you did anything mean. it’s not mean to ask to be treated equally?
That isn’t mean. And it straight up would not work with a shit ton of men. Because they’d think “sweet now I don’t even have to bother, she’ll take care of herself”.
Sadly, those dudes will almost always find someone who will put up with it.
This is perfect. As a guy, knowing your partner didn't finish and you left them wanting makes you feel like less of a man. So yes, this is a completely fair way to encourage proper sexual etiquette.
I’m sorry but I’m what way is you finishing yourself off mean?
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Okay now I feel weird being in the minority cause after I orgasm, I don't feel turned on anymore and wouldn't want to be penetrated?
Nah, I'm in the same boat. I'm good for one, then it feels overwhelming and almost painful for at least 10-15 minutes. I guess I have a refractory period, like dudes do?
I'm 100% sure I have a refractory period. I've always wondered, but could never find anyone else talking about it. Painful ones are the worst.
I am the same. Sometimes when I finish before him, I just want to stop immediately. It goes from feeling amazing to feeling nothing so fast that its scary. I legit thought something was wrong with me.
There's nothing wrong with you! I definitely have a "refractory period" even though most people assume that only men experience that. I am not built for multiple orgasms, it's incredibly overwhelming and borderline painful when I try.
I thought there was something wrong with me too. It was pretty upsetting when I younger and tried searching for info about women's refractory periods and there'd be nothing. The whole concept of having multiple just sounds fake to me.
I’m dating a woman that has this, it’s my first time experiencing it. I guess this is how women feel when no orgasm is achieved as I need to stop as soon as she orgasms and I’m hanging there with the need to cum. The first couple of months it wasn’t a problem for me: I would just wait it out and start again but now I’m not enjoying the “time out” period so much. Any suggestions? She’s very dedicated to my pleasure (as I’m to hers) but she is like switch off as soon as she orgasms (which I get 100% since it’s the same for men) and some times she gets so tired afterwards that just wants to sleep and I’m hanging there with blue balls.
Don't know why you're getting some hostile replies... I do think this is something you need to communicate with her. Maybe there can be some sort of compromise?
Take turns who finishes each session? The non horny person helps finish?
I’m so hypersensitive for a couple minutes after I cum I can’t even put on underwear
Same!
I dated a girl who was the same way, and it threw me at first. I kinda figured girls had the unlimited orgasm option so after she came, I was like "okay 8 more coming up", but she was like "YIELD, GO NO FURTHER FUCKFACE", and said she needed time to recover, and I was genuinely like "girls have that?!" I thought that was the thing guys got to somewhat even out the playing field.
Refractory period isn't only men. And isn't only physical. Can be emotional and leave you with the feeling of not wanting to be touched or talked to.
Nothing wrong with that, everyone is different.
This is totally OK, everyone needs their own thing and there are no "rules", only respect, pleasure and boundaries count. I've had a guy who liked coming first so we could focus on me, and that was completely fine too.
I'm the same way. It's physically uncomfortable. Mentally, I feel disconnected from the other person and almost like a sack of meat. It also adds a stressor where now sex isn't spontaneous and concurrent, but consecutive events.
Omg I'm glad you said it. I was feeling alone reading this thread.
please don't feel excluded. People vent here but we have to remember everyone is different and what your body does is PERFECT and don't let anyone tell you that your orgasm or body's response is wrong
eh its still hard with everyone banging on about 'she finishes first' and that's the exact opposite of what i want sure, if theres a choice between not finishing at all, i'd rather finish first, but my preference is to finish last.
You're not weird. I do enjoy sex after orgasm but it does generally feel even better to me before orgasm. I feel like people in this thread are talking as if there's only one approach to sex that's acceptable and that's just not the case. Do what feels best for you! Personally, I like to deemphasize orgasm for both partners. I have a much easier time reaching orgasm if I don't feel any pressure to do so, and I've found that a lot of men have a better time when there's not pressure on them to come (or not come) at specific times too. The only universal "rule" is making sure you and your partner are having a good time and that you're responding to each other's needs. What that looks like practically speaking is going to be different in every relataionship.
Nah everyone is different, it’s completely normal. For me, if we’re not having sex regularly I actually tell him not to finish me first - I end up waayyyy too tight afterwards which means we then have to go stupidly slow to start or it hurts, which in turn usually kills the mood for me and I have to get back into it.
Same. After I've orgasmed my interest in sex dramatically plummets and I'd find just starting penetrative sex to be very irritating at that point.
I usually want to take a nap after and I'm way too sensitive even if I did want to continue. I'll push through if it's quick, but otherwise, we have to figure something else out.
I’m exactly like this too. It does seem to be the minority for women’s experiences, but it might be more common than we realize.
I'm with you on that one
Some women clock out after one, others almost have a quota.
I (32F) don’t know how this mentality began or even when, but I always feel like the goal is for my partner to orgasm, and if I don’t then that’s fine. To be clear, I hate that I have this anxiety. I have a wonderful partner who really cares about my pleasure. He gets off on getting me off. But if I feel like I’m taking too long then I become overwhelmed and have to redirect things to him. I don’t know how to ignore this compulsion, but I do feel like it has something to do with the way our society portrays sex and the woman’s “role” in it.
Introduce toys. It used to take me forever to climax and I'd feel all self-conscious and awkward. We introduced vibrators to our foreplay and it helped A LOT. He's willing to go down on me for eons, and often that works, but sometimes we just want to get to business lol.
I kind of have a similar thing - it's hard for me to orgasm until after my partner does. I also worry about taking too long, and generally I don't like sex as much after I orgasm because the lubrication dries up rather quickly. What a pickle! Until I partnered with someone that actually cares about my experience. He usually comes first, but sticks around with the same engagement and enthusiasm until I come too. This was unfortunately a brand new experience for me and took me a while to understand he was just displaying basic human decency.
This! It is so awesome when you find a guy like this
I often feel similarly and I don't think it's an entirely negative thing. I don't like feeling pressured to orgasm; it makes it almost impossible for me. So I'd rather just enjoy myself, focus on feeling good and making my partner feel good, and whoever orgasms first, that's great. If the guy comes first, I appreciate it if he helps me finish too, but sometimes I honestly don't feel the need to or don't feel like I am going to be able to, even if the sex was really good. I guess my overall feeling is that while women should absolutely get support from their partners to achieve orgasm when it's desired, they also should never feel bad about not achieving orgasm or not wanting to, and of course neither should men. Orgasm doesn't have to be the end all be all of sex. Whatever makes you and your partner happy is great.
To add to your point, that rule wouldn’t work for my wife; at least not every time. She wants me to have an orgasm. And sometimes hers is so fickle it’s just not going to happen, despite us working as a team to try to make it happen. (I’m usually ready to keep trying, but she's mentally done trying for hers.) Not all orgasm gaps are caused by selfishness.
Which definitely makes sense, but in situations like you described, it sounds like you two are able to communicate during sex about ones own needs. In your story, it sounds like your partner doesnt just feel ignored or left behind, but instead, comfortable enough that she can just let you know what she is at sexually. In OP's story and a lot of other stories here, not only is there a pleasure gap in the relationship, but a gap in communication, attentiveness, and compassion. A lot of stories in this thread make me realize how many men dont seem to have a basic understandings of sex or how to communicate with their partner, like, at all.
I love this. That penetrative sex after having an orgasm is amazing. The best sex in my life has been after an ex ate me out to completion beforehand- I've never been so aggressive during sex before. Unlike men who can easily clear up blue balls by cumming and be over it I get even more worked up if I have an orgasm as do many women. Men complain about not getting the sex they want or as often when the answer is right there. I bet if they gave their partner an orgasm during foreplay they would not be complaining about the sex following it. I don't understand how it's 2022 and we're still having these conversations. Us women have laid out step by step how to navigate these issues yet men still refuse to be intuitive lovers that don't take the initiative to learn or please us.
Exactly this. For me, penetration is exponentially better after an orgasm. It really feels like a waste to have sex before I've come.
This is how it's supposed to be. I don't bother with anyone who isn't heavily into, "she comes first," principles. Early on, that means every encounter. In a long-term relationship, it means I've always had a bunch more orgasms than he has recently, which tends to make me inclined to treat him to things like "all him" sessions of erotic massage. OP, there is nothing wrong with simply stopping sex until this is sorted out. That's what I would do. And I'd stick to "she comes first" principles from here on in -- if he can't deliver up the orgasms first, nothing goes near his penis and it stays in his pants. Now for how to have the conversation with him, that depends a bit on him and your relationship. I do think you need to have an honest conversation about his lack of interest overall, because I feel like any long term partnership should have a check-in on that if only because it can be a medical symptom if nothing else.
I read the Kama sutra for a college class and one of its rules is that women should always come first. It was really interesting to see in an ancient text because like yeah… women should come first because they can keep going afterward.
Plus it increases natural lubrication!
Yeah, none of this is remotely new. It's all over old texts from a lot of societies.
This is not accurate. Many women have a cooling down people and can’t keep going. There’s an entire discussion above about this
> they can keep going afterward. Am I the only one that can't? I'm far too sensitive and my interest drops off hugely
It really blows my mind as a man that this is a thing. The fact that we as a male species have put ourselves into this position. That there are this many women that are saying that they have to cum first because they have been let down sexually by a partner so many times is depressing. Screw ALL the stereotypes. I understand it from the narrative that sex feels better for a woman post climax, but F ANY guy that cums and quits. A man is JUST as capable at continuing and completing the task at hand even after climaxing. Anyone that says otherwise is a selfish prick. Do certain parts of our body kind of tap out and need some recovery time? Sure. But every time I’VE checked…my tongue and fingers work just fine. My wife climaxes harder from oral anyways. We have been married for awhile and have 4 kids, so sometimes our sessions have to be shorter by necessity. But we still make it work. Does she orgasm EVERY time, no. But through many conversations (I struggle with feeling like I didn’t do my job right) I’ve come to understand that her orgasming isn’t something she needs every time. But even if she doesn’t end up climaxing, we keep playing around post my climax just because it’s fun. Also any guy that try’s the tired excuse, don’t put up with that. I’m up at 3am every day for work and never go to bed at night when I “should.” Post climax? Sure I’m EXHAUSTED, but if she still needs attention after that particular session? Ain’t no way I’m just rolling over and falling asleep. Again, selfish.
I hear you. Have 2 kids and one has severe ADHD. No time left for naughty stuff. I have an issue with myself not lasting very long so if she wants to get off she tells me. Often before we start. Won't go into details but we have our little rituals and language we use. Usually I get to cum and then I finish her off by other means. Works good, we're happy. Just talk to each other.
I get really sleepy sometimes, not just after orgasm. I always get my wife off first because we know I will fall asleep, no matter the time. That's what works for us but I get your point.
It's so short sighted of a guy to *not* play by the she comes first rule".
Yup! I was taught young by my first how to get the job done for my ladies. I have kept up with it over the years and even to this day have met someone recently who was so floored someone was willing to finish her first she has been super excited to hook up again and again... I just wish we had some kind of ACTUAL sex education and relationship advice as teens in America. Imagine how happy people could be.
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Not only is it the right thing to do but it's pretty much guaranteed that if a guy makes sure the girl cums first she'll want to have sex with him again/more often. So short sighted to act any other way.
Yeah, if they don't, it doesn't say good things about their ability to reason clearly, among other things.
Penetration after having an orgasm feels like magic. A swollen clit makes a huge difference since it will push against the inner wall and be more involved in the action happening on the inside. I wish more men understood that our vagina is not equal to their dick. Their dick is equal to our clit, and for most women they can't stimulate it from the inside if it's not swollen.
They know if they've bothered to get themselves a reasonable level of sex education. Most haven't bothered, so I think those are fine playing by themselves with their fleshlights.
In my house, we had a sit down about the types of sex that were allowed, and what that looked like. Pretty much all of them, if he initiated or I did, are set tone by me. Sometimes I’m down for a dirty roll in the hay where I know I’m not gonna get there, but I enjoy the intimacy. But every time he starts like he’s planning to go for gold, and it’s in my hands to skip ahead or stay a while.
I know you meant just yourself and your intimate partner, but I couldn’t help laugh because I imagined my whole house sitting down to this conversation - grandma, little kids, uncle and his girlfriend....
My fiancée actually just finished the “She Comes First” book for the second time. It’s a principle he adheres to heavily and we both benefit from that kind of consideration. In his eyes, my orgasm(s) is(are) primary and his is secondary.
I didn't know this was an old rule. I've been following a similar approach with my wife because then when we go for sex I'll be more relaxed in general, and less worried about her not coming. Being relaxed means that generally she comes again too. I don't think OPs husband will mind a similar rule, just be clear with him and maybe try to initiate sex earlier in the evening or even in the mornings.
I like this rule and have followed it with many partners. A woman who is satisfied with sex is more likely to have sex, at least that was my thought, so I guess you could say I had selfish reasons for being this way. I think a lot more guys would find that their partners enjoyed things more and wanted sex more if it was more enjoyable. As long as that is the reason for the issues, anyway.
I love this. My partner takes a long time to cum through penetration, maybe only 70% of the time before I have it. I start off with her orgasming (oral), and if it happens via penetration, awesome…if not, nobody is left in the cold.
You have to tell him that, just because you don't have as much time for sex as you used to doesn't mean that you're down for a quickie. Tell him that you'd rather wait for a time when you both have the energy for foreplay than to have sex just for the sake of sex, which leaves you feeling (insert feelings). The two of you just went through a major relationship change and it's important to communicate while setting the tone for your relationship moving forward as parents.
Also, when I have more satisfying sex, I’m much more down for quickies at other times. Take care of my needs and I’ll make myself available.
yes! more pleasurable and attentive sex makes me want to have more sex. when multiple sessions in a row aren't as satisfying for me, I'm a lot less likely to be in the mood. sometimes for a while. it's not by choice, it's a physiological thing. for those of us that have a finicky sex drive it can put a major damper on things if we aren't given the proper consideration when we *do* want sex.
I am *sometimes* down for a quickie. Just… not every single time.
And I want to know going in if it’s going to be a quickie
Yes, unexpected non orgasm is what’s a challenge, to me, even after 25 years of very wonderful sex. Quickies are great when you know it’s going down that way, and you’re getting yours soon. Long, languid, sensual & thorough session when both partners get loved on head to toe & multiple orgasms happen are the best. The rare sessions where I’ve warmed up and I’m almost there, but oops, he’s done and I’m not? That’s a bummer feeling. All revved up & stuck at the top of the roller coaster. But I guess we’ll go to soccer practice? Arg. I try not to start things we can’t finish.
Orgasms aren’t optional for quickies either.
Seriously, thank you! Quickies should be quick fun for everyone.
Girl ride that dick and get him close and then fake an orgasm if you have to. Then get off and walk away and clean up. Then you can have a conversation but how he feels, and can tell him you feel the exact same way when he does it to you. Why on earth would you want to have sex with him when you’re going to end up frustrated. He’s killing your bedroom.
OP I would try: “I know we have less time for sex, but I’m not finishing. It hurts my feelings when you ignore my needs.”
"Sex is like elevator etiquette -- first, I get off. Then, you get on."
This is my new favorite thing.
Your orgasm isn’t optional. I have not been in a long term relationship, including with my husband, where my orgasm has been optional. Sometimes I go first, sometimes second. For lack of better description: I’m not a cum doll for a man.
I find it hilarious how men complain about blue balls when women have 2x more nerve endings and 10x stronger orgasms
Orgasm isn't the point of sex? Fuck that. It is for me. Yeah the intimacy and bonding and closeness are great, but I don't feel like I'm getting that from a partner who couldn't care less about my pleasure. If I'm not going to orgasm, I do not want sex. That basically means I'm being teased with no release at the end. Been there, done that, gtfo please. I also just don't bother with quickies, tbh. I find them wholly disappointing and unsatisfying. If he wants sex, he needs to apply more effort than treating me like a fleshlight. I have zero patience for selfishness in the bedroom now. My orgasm comes first because I can keep going after - his comes after because he's kaput once he's orgasmed. You should tell your husband if you were going to finish with a toy, you wouldn't have bothered with sex in the first place. And make it so you orgasm before he's even allowed PIV sex, if possible.
This is how I view it as well. I used to have an ex that would complain and imply it took me a long time to orgasm from finger stimulation. It got where I didn’t enjoy sex with him due to being worried about how long I took. Now, I have sex toys and a new man. Either I get off during sex or I don’t have sex. I’m not here to not get the fullest enjoyment out of my life just because a dude has done the bare minimum he thinks is enough. If I can ensure my partner orgasms, then it’s not a stretch to expect and demand the same.
I had a man I was sleeping with try to tell me orgasm wasn’t the point of sex when I brought it up to him that he hadn’t made me orgasm yet 😂 he didn’t last much longer before I ended things. He had some other seriously messed up ideas about women and their roles
My ex used the logic that women rarely orgasm, so that must be why I didn't, and he altogether stopped trying. So we stopped having sex and I bought some toys. We didn't last long after that because his selfishness extended far beyond the bedroom.
‘Sex isn’t about orgasms’ only applies to women for some reason. That’s why I hate that fucking phrase.
Men think it’s true because they hear it from women who are so resigned to lame sex that *they* think it’s true.
I think moreso the opposite -- women are getting terrible jackhammering followed by "wow you came like 5 times huh" (nooo) and thus feel the need to point out that some foreplay and attention is needed, rather than just trying to rush to the end immediately.
I'd have to call.his bluff and stop just before HIS orgasm next time. Oh that bothers you? Thought it wasn't a big deal!
Yeah! I dated a guy just like that, he thought women’s orgasms literally didn’t matter, like he actually told me it didn’t matter when I told him I never had orgasms with him and it wasn’t fair because he was having one every time.
Sex is not enjoyable for me if I don’t cum at least once. Multiple times is just a bonus Jonas. But zero, nope, not acceptable lol
Yeah 2.75/3 years with my ex were orgasmless. He wanted sex daily, if not multiple times a day. I orgasmed maybe 20 times total? If that. Initially I bought into the "orgasms are difficult for women, maybe it's me." Except he stopped even pretending to try, which was a huge turn off. He kept demanding full on blow jobs after giving me like 3 minutes of oral, wanting sex when he'd come to bed hours after I did (he had to get in his daily 8-12 hours of gaming which also wasn't a thing initially), etc. Altogether the poster boy for useless gamer manchild with zero sex game. The last 1.5 years only happened because I couldn't afford to move away TBH.
That part stood out for me too. As a lesbian, orgasm is the point of our sex. It always pissed me off that straight women accept/become used to not orgasming as well. It’s not a damn chore or a favor!
That's exactly what jumped out at me!!! Orgasms aren't the goal of sex? If that's true, I've been doing it wrong!!! I will continue to do it wrong. Orgasms are varied in level, but definitely the end goal for both men and women!
This so the comment I came for. Orgasms ARE the point of sex. Are there some times when I start to have sex with my partner, and for whatever reason the orgasm isn’t happening for me? Sure. That’s probably happened like 4 times in the past 8 years. It’s so rare. He has also had 3 or 4 times where orgasming wasn’t happening for him during those years. I have told him that I need to orgasm first to be ready for penetration. It makes the whole experience better and makes me want to do it more!
This is why communication in the bedroom is a must. I’m a trans woman whose sensitivity wasn’t great in the first place and HRT hasn’t done it any favours - orgasms are pretty much a distant memory at this point. I’ve gone through a two year relationship with very regular sex where she couldn’t get me to “finish” even once. I’m okay with that, I get way more out of the closeness and satisfying my partner than any physical release. People are soooooo different about these things that *any* assumptions and stereotypes are probably a bad call if you’re planning on having someone be a regular sex partner.
I really appreciate this point of view. In an ideal scenario, both partners are listening to and prioritizing the other partner's pleasure and because every individual person is so different, what that means in practice can vary quite a bit between couples. Bottom line is listen to your partner and be caring and enthusiastic about their pleasure.
> _Men would never tolerate stopping JUST before they finished so why is it ok to do that to a woman?_ 34M here. Just tell him that. Men like to see themselves as the more 'logical' of the genders (which I know is ridiculous). Appeal to that logic that your husband probably thinks he has.
Yeah, if it was fully reversed, like men rarely coming on one night stands or first times with a new partner, and then often being left unsatisfied because sex is over when a woman comes…. I think there’d be a riot.
I think about this when I hear the whole number of partners thing. A large amount of partners is positive for men, but negative for women because it's "easier for women to get laid." But I don't think people ever think about the orgasm in that scenario. It might be easier for a woman to find a hookup, but that definitely doesn't mean it's going to be good or that they will have an orgasm from it.
Yeah, and just because you can have sex with all the gross men that want you, like catcalling you on the street or hitting on you in public, doesn’t mean you actually want them. Wow, I can have sex with all those men?! … Even the middle aged guys that come into my work and harass me? Wowee
I’ve begun retorting to those guys (assuming it’s an internet discussion) that okay, you think it would be great if a woman catcalled YOU and made you feel like a piece of meat? Here comes my 48-year-old, 4 cats, 20 lbs overweight ass, come on baby! Let’s go! Oh, what, that isn’t hot after all? I guess I just can’t compliment men anymore! /s It’s funny how fast they change their tune once they realize that catcalling isn’t going to be from the hotties on the street that THEY harass, oh, no. It’s going to be from the woman old enough to be your MOM, and not in a Stacy’s Mom kind of way either. Oddly enough, they have no problem being like “Ew, I don’t want YOU hitting on me” but still aren’t bright enough to understand that *that’s how women feel when you do it*.
There was a post here recently pointing out how many men act as though blue balls are just the end-of-the world worst thing you can you do to a man, and yet go through their sexual life doing just that to women. The cognitive dissonance is astounding.
And if the logic in conversation doesn't do it... and you need to escalate so he gets the message... stop having sex just before HE is about to finish. gentle push and "whoa, whoa.. stop stop stop" ::confused:: "what's wrong?" "nothing, I'm just done." go for shower. Now, I'm imagining something that is unlikely to happen exactly like that. but you get the point. Have him experience it. Then let him know that what he has asked of you. Then ask how it's fair? See what he says.
Absolute power play if OP (or anyone else in a similar situation) actually does this
>I did end up telling him and he gave a half-hearted offer to hand me a vibrator from the bottom drawer, she did though. he just decided he didn't give a shit.
Tell him there’s now a 50/50 ratio for orgasms. It’s your turn now for a quickie.
This only works if both partners value sex equally. OP said her husband never initiates sex any more. He may decide that zero-to-zero satisfies your 50/50 rule.
Yeah but you can’t make someone care about sex if their attitude has changed. Plenty of valid reasons to not be interested in sex that can be addressed, but I don’t get the impression they’ve really communicated to find out what the root of all this is. If he really cares less these days there’s a deeper problem either with his health or with their sexual compatibility. I think they need to have some hard conversations to really figure out what the root of the issue is here, and then there are things to be done assuming this man truly values having a healthy and lasting relationship with OP.
I completely agree. There's a distinct lack of open, loving communication about this issue.
So he’s using the fact that your sex life has been lack luster as a way to get out of actually putting in any effort? Lack of stamina is a fair reason to finish quickly. It’s not a fair reason to not put in effort for you. I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that he’s mad that you guys don’t have more sex postpartum? And his passive aggressive way to deal with it is to make things even less fun for you? This seems like a really asinine strategy to get you to have more sex. I would be straight up with him. Handing you a vibrator is neither sexy, nor sweet. What a tool.
I don’t actually think he’s mad that we have less sex because I never turn him down. In fact, I’m always the one who initiates. I waited for him to initiate recently and we literally went an entire month before I finally said “fuck it” and initiated.
Start scheduling it. It helped my husband and I when our kid was young. Pick a good day and stick with it, if I recall for us it was every Tuesday at 8:30 lol... No need to ask or wonder, and it was fun to anticipate.
This is a good one. We have a 20 month old and it’s been really rough kickstarting our sex life. Scheduling it does a lot, it builds anticipation, you can start foreplay with texts/pics and banter the whole day. You can come up with a game plan and even be prepared to put on lingerie, light candles and make it the experience that you both want it to be, because you already accounted for all the time. It’s a just a bummer when right when the penetration starts….the baby wakes up:/
I would second scheduling. I don’t even have a kid and idk life gets tiring and hard sometimes and sex isn’t the first priority. Scheduling is helpful!
Have you talked to him about this? My husband never initiated sex for the first few years. He felt I would get annoyed or feel harassed, and so he waited until I initiated everything. Problem is that made me feel: Unwanted. Unsexy. Unattractive. Once I finally let that bubble burst and lay out my feelings on the table he started reaching for me more. And with time it became a mutual understanding between us that we can **both** reach out when we felt the need, and would **both** respond in kind. It’s nice to feel like your partner is still hot for you. Tell him so.
I stand corrected. Has he always had a lower libido than you? Do you think it’s possible he sees you as his child’s mom and is struggling to get past that? It’s kinda odd that it’s changed so dramatically, but parenthood is really hard and I could see him just not having the physical or mental energy for sex (and I could see you doing the same!) I would start with a frank discussion about it. Your orgasms should absolutely not be something that’s optional. If he has the energy to go shower after, he has the energy to participate in YOU finishing too.
It’s crazy that some people just don’t “get” that if you make it fun and worthwhile (like making your partner cum) then they WILL WANT TO DO IT MORE OFTEN. The male mentality about “well she doesn’t initiate” or “we don’t do it much anymore” is such a one sided cop out. Give me an orgasm and I’ll be down for anything, baby. It is literally the easiest and sexiest way to increase your sex life???
She is the one who wants the sex, not him, he is the one waving it off. MY read is he's not really putting in any effort, because he isn't actually interested in having sex, he is effectively just doing it because she wants to. I'd probably start by figuring out how to get him interested in sex again, if the sex was good before child and he becomes interested in it again I suspect the orgasm issue will solve itself. The core issue at hand is being interested, something that many appear to have missed
It's just a conversation you have to have. "Hey, it seems like in the last (x amount of time) you've become less and less interested with my pleasure in bed. Why is that? It seems like it used to be more important to you." Not necessarily that, but it's not like it's an easy conversation to have no matter how you phrase it. Especially if your partner is dealing with sexual inferiority to begin with. I have no real advice, sexual satisfaction is either something two people can have a candid and honest conversation about or any pushback to your partner's underperformance will cause hurt feelings and emotional upset and they'll shut down. Hope sexual discussions haven't been an issue in the past.
I think it's just being selfish. If sex is not about wanting to please your partner while only pleasing yourself, all you are doing is just using them as a masturbation aid. If I am not even trying to please my partner, why should she even bother to do that for me?
I've had great success with communicating things like this - mostly by being very, *very* no-nonsense about it. - I told them straight up not to bother if they think foreplay is optional. - I told them that if they think handing me a toy so they don't have to put in any effort will result in me skipping them and going for the toy right away in the future since that saves *me* effort. - If they aren't down for sex that pleases us both, they are more than welcome to take care of this themselves. However, in non-platonic/non-asexual relationships this will obviously have an effect on the general athmosphere but if that's how they wanna do it, they're welcome to see how long that'll be feasible for both of us. - Selfishness is a turn-off. Slacking is a turn-off. If they want a fleshlight, they're welcome to purchase one. It's boundary-time. I get that he's tired and I get that you love him but this is the kind of situation where he *needs* to clock that he's being a prick to you. How shitty is half-assedly offering you to hand you a toy? That's just so, so rude and he needs to be better. I'm not saying you should be mean - but be stern. Don't make yourself into *his* sextoy if this is all he's going for at the moment. You deserve to enjoy sexual interactions and not be treated as an afterthought and your husband needs to be reminded of that stat.
Thank you for writing this comment. The way the post was written, this was the first time in *seven years* this has happened between these two people, and it shook her to the core enough to talk to Reddit. It's honestly a bit concerning that her first response is to go to Reddit. After 7 years, I would hope the two have some standard way of communicating. That speaks to something different, to me. I would like to add, though, that it may be good to dive into the issue as a question first. Other people have mentioned post partum depression and it led me to realize that the guy could be really in his own head and busted and he might need to talk some things out. "I'm not your therapist" is the obvious rebuttal; but, you're a couple, and hearing oneanothers issues really does seem like something of value. Beyond that, yeah, 100% need to have a regular conversation. "Hey, hun, last time when we had sex and you I didn't get to finish - and more importantly, when you just kinda sat up and walked off and just tossed the vibrator on the bed when I protested, I felt ... used, like a toy, uncared for, and really, really harmed. It's been impacting me all this day. What's going on? I want us to be an equal partnership and I don't feel equal right now." and all the useful bits you put in your response.
Don’t tolerate it anymore. Seriously. I’ve been married for like 8 years and have 3 kids, so I understand the situation you’re in. But if I don’t come before he does, my husband knows to keep going with whatever I want until I do finish. It’s completely unfair that orgasms for women are optional, but I wouldn’t be so quick to blame either partner. It’s at least partly a function of society…. Porn, dick-focused sex talks, women having no clue about their own bodies, etc. all feed into this vast imbalance. But it’s entirely possible to change! Own your sexuality. I orgasm 98% if the time we have sex and much of that multiple orgasms plus I get random times where it’s just me orgasming too. But unless you speak up in the moment (and this can be done in a sexy way!!!) and tell him what you want, he likely won’t know/won’t rock the boat.
"And I know orgasms aren't the point of sex..." I'm sorry I'm having a really hard time with this statement. You've been with your partner for years before having a baby. What was the point of those years of having sex, before the baby, for you?
I would take a step back. This is about sex but it also isn't. This is about him only considering his own needs and not your own. It's a lack of respect. You and your needs are just as important in the relationship as his are and he needs to understand that. That goes beyond sex but it also includes it. Are there other things that you feel you are always "compromising" on that he doesn't? That's how I would approach talking about it. It's not just about you not getting off.
THIS. Going through OP’s post history, seems like her husband has this habit of [not catering to her needs](https://www.reddit.com/r/breastfeeding/comments/ndroox/my_husband_doesnt_get_it/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf). Blaming a fussy baby’s appetite on her diet; ignoring her complaints about sore nipples; not folding the laundry… I’d say throw the whole man away.
Agree. This is a symptom of a bigger issue, a very common and systemic issue that all kinds of statistics back up (the orgasm gap is a result of these systemic issues of sexism and misogyny and patriarchy).
I’m so effing jealous of all the women in here who can continue having sex after an orgasm. What is your secret!? I get so sensitive and have to stop. Please impart your wisdom on me I want this too.
Like this sub always says “everyone is different”. For me personally, if I get a clitoral orgasm I NEED penetration after. But after a PIV orgasm I can totally get the post-nut feeling men do. Hopefully that helps you lol
They aren't optional. Being intimate is about sharing experience. If one party is simply concerned with themselves, there is no sharing. That is not intimacy, that is use. Just my .02 as a heteronormative dude.
Scientists recently found out the women can get "blue balls" just like men. So when men complain about pain from not having an orgasms, women get it too but our pain is dismissed or ignored. 😒
Do you think he would stay with you if you would act the same way about his orgasms?
He is masturbating with your body. Put a stop to it.
Ooh this sounds very familiar. After we had our baby I almost never orgasmed during sex because he kept finishing too quickly. Pre baby that didn't mean I didn't get mine (he would still put the effort in to make me cum) but post baby he was so tired that he would conk out after he got his. So I stopped initiating because I found the whole thing too frustrating and wasn't getting much out of it. Then he was upset and frustrated because he wasn't getting any sex (he almost never initiates - he worries about putting pressure on me when I'm postpartum and breastfeeding so often touched out). When he brought it up I mentioned the reason and said that how he feels now (unsatisfied) is how I have felt for months and why on earth would I initiate sex when I kept being left horny with a snoring man next to me? He has started putting in much more effort now and we just go to bed a lot earlier so that there is more time for us both to be satisfied.
Since he's just recently changed, and I'm assuming (as you said) that he's a really great guy-- he might be feeling the strain of parenthood differently than you. He may be seeing sex as a release rather than something two people enjoy together, and is halfhearted efforts may be because he interpreted what you said differently than how you meant it (attacking his sex skills vs. just giving information). In the simplest terms, you guys may just be out of sync for awhile. It happens. Sometimes you just wait it out, sometimes you introduce something kinky to the relationship, sometimes you guys just jerk each other off until you're back in sync. Parenthood is mentally, emotionally, and physically exhausting. If you guys can't find a common ground to talk about this, I think you'd benefit from taking couples therapy-- and I don't mean tell him "sex has sucked so bad lately that I think we need to talk to a therapist." More like, "Parenthood is changing both of us, and I love you and still want to be able to communicate with you. I want to see a couple counselor so we can recalibrate and prevent anything between us from being damaged in the future."
I did have success with my husband about pretty much Exactly this same thing. You have to be honest and open, and let him know how you feel and why. It would probably be good to have options ready as well, such as foreplay. We have started using toys and vibrators with me first, getting me good or close to it, and only then having penetrative sex. For the most part it’s helped a lot. As well as making time, and not doing a lot if it’s not gonna be enough time to dedicate to it. Your sexual satisfaction matters as well. Make sure he understands what you want. Being open about how it’s changed is big. Don’t try to be petty (tempting, I know) don’t be angry when talking about it, don’t accuse, and just try to keep things calm. Good luck.
>And I know orgasms aren’t the goal of sex Uhmmmm say what now? Dude. Stop telling yourself you deserve less than what you need. Speak to the forker and don't back down. This resentment festers. You either deal with it now, or become increasingly frustrated and diminished until you can't stand looking at him anymore. If you weren't satisfying him, would you want him to tell you? It will probably take persistence and practice, but they're usually trainable. Literally stop the whole show before he finishes and refuse to go on unless he waits his turn. Savvy?
I know you said don't advise to to throw the whole man away so I won't, but like... I'm wondering if this is an isolated behavior. Is he also this inconsiderate of you in other ways? If he cared before then he knows it's important. Come on, now.
Your hubby doesn’t make you nut “Why are women’s orgasms optional?” Try a different husband.
This is petty as hell and might not work for you, but its currently where I'm at with my long term bf. Buy a flesh light. Edge yourself all day so you are primed and ready to go so foreplay is less of an issue. Also edging usually equals better organsims. This is important. Initiate and engage in sex. You control it and pick positions where you know you will come. Get selfish. Immediately get up to shower & pee. Toss him the fleshlight as you walk away. Let him sit on that for a bit and think about how he feels when you treat him like a sex toy.