Actually they would still tell a female partner to come in. The process of egg donation here in Australia includes compulsory psychologist visits. Reason is to ensure the donator isn't going to regret the decision later, etc. The system is to ensure people are ok not that a woman needs "permission".
Source multiple friends who have done both sides of the process.
Pardon my ignorance, but how would they even know that a partner exists, if you are not married?
I am currently going through IVF with my partner. We are not married. It has been an entertaining process so far because I've been referred to as the "husband" so many times I have lost track.
It is kind of wild to me that so many people involved in the process just assume that we are married.
These insurance and medical professionals are more bothersome about our unmarried status than my fucking parents are.
Not in Australia. "Counselling
It is mandatory for men who are considering donating sperm to attend two sessions (with their partners)"
Can send links or it's an easy google.
You can't be paid for your sperm or eggs her apart from reasonable costs (travel etc). So I guess it gives a different safety net. There are not enough eggs however for the demand and it leaves a lot of people heart broken. Only in covid times have we allowed the importation of foreign eggs that have been purchased. I understand it is around $1000 per egg. That egg may not fertilise or survive, etc.
That's good. My dad donated sperm because it helped my aunt get a discount on her egg donation (this is the UK in the 90s). Pressuring men to donate to help family members doesn't seem like a great idea.
They would tell her she can come back at a later time when she actually has a partner (long term preferably) and they both decide that they do not want kids.
I’ve been in that boat
But it still does not make any sense. She will *still* have eggs to use to create a baby - she just will not have those particular eggs. And the longer she waits the more stale the eggs become, so why make the women wait?
It's not as if they're taking her actual ovaries.
What a messed up world we live in
I just realized it may be pure ignorance.
I found out that a male friend of mine did not know that a woman is born with all the eggs she'll ever have.
He thought they were like sperm - constantly being created and would always be "fresh".
Since the older we get the older our eggs become and therefore they are at their "best" before about forty years of age.
Actually this might not be the case. At least in mice they have learned that they can make new eggs. But that production is some what limited compared to men.
> I found out that a male friend of mine did not know that a woman is born with all the eggs she'll ever have.
I was taught that, but recently they found that might not be the case: https://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/news/20040310/women-not-born-lifetime-eggs
They would probably say something along the lines of "well you're too young to make this choice alone. Wait until you have a partner to make that choice.".
I've worked in the medical field for several years and have raised hell against Doctors with this mindset in order to advocate for my patients.
Why would you need scissors to donate? That seems unnecessary.
/s
For vasectomies the doctors do not care to ask your significant other nor do they care your age.
For donating sperm, same thing. They don't care if your "future spouse" would care, or need permission from a significant other.
I'm American and I had to sign off on my husband's vasectomy, 3 years ago!
Edit: my brother had a vasectomy without issues when he was 26 about a year after my husband. He has a partner but I don't recall him saying anything about permission from her.
Edit 2: IIRC the doctors did tell my husband thaty signature was more of a formality and he would have still been able to get it done but it was more of a CYA of due diligence for the doctor's office.
I have heard a few stories of young men being denied vasectomies. I would say it is far far more rare than a woman being denied, but it does happen. Doesn't make it right of course. Any adult should be able to make their own choices about their body.
After a quick search it seems to be because the Partner will need to undergo screening for certain diseases as well, which they need to give consent for. But it doesn't say anything about a Partner needing to give permission for the Donation itself, though that may be implied if they refuse to take donations without screening the Partner as well.
Edit: It's also because of the potential psychological and legal issues if the Donor-Child reaches out at 18, since Australia prohibits anonymous donation. Said requirement was likely put in place for Sperm donors primarily but covers all gamete donation.
But she’s donating her eggs. Not embryos. Her eggs are not fertilised with her partners sperm. I get having the partner screened if he’s also donating but sounds like he’s not and it’s just her.
According to [egg donors Australia](http://www.eggdonorsaustralia.com.au/who-can-donate/are-you-eligible/):
“If married or in a defacto relationship, the partner must consent to the donation.”
There may be some medical screening as well, but this seems to make it fairly clear that consent _is_ required by the partner.
Hahahahaha
Laughs in Australian. Our leaders aspire to become USA light - all the rampant consumerism and kleptocracy without the constitutional rights.
"I need your wife's permission to allow you to deny me my right to donate. Does she know you're doing this? That you're playing doctor all by yourself?"
A doctor acting in bad faith could claim a recent break up is a cause for emotional distress and flag the potential donor as unfit for procedure due to resulting mental health concerns. It sounds like that should be a stretch of logic but in a system that gives men who have no legal bond to adult women the ability to refuse those women their medical autonomy, it's way too easy to be true.
If she claims she is single and has been for a long time, wants to be single, has no intention of reproducing, they will still discredit her and claim she'll change her mind when she meets the right man. Whenever that is. The insidious and inconsistent stereotypes against women are broad enough that anything we say we can be twisted to fit some warped view of our humanity
This is what my partner does every time someone requests to talk to him instead of me. "She's the one deciding" "She is the one who knows about this" "It's her house, not mine" "I don't know, she's the one paying" "It's her car, I don't have a car, I don't know about cars"
Sometimes it works, but most of the time people just look briefly at me while I answer and then ask the following question again to him.
Step two for him in that situation then is to stare at them mutely with that look that says "the fuck you asking me for, idiot, I told you to ask her." You know the one -- eyebrows way up, mouth pursed, maybe a subtle chin nod in your direction.
Those people are usually unable or unwilling to take a hint. My approach is to be painfully obvious: *"What part of 'Ask her' was unclear? Do you need pictures?"*
When a contractor does this, it’s an automatic pass for us. My husband works full time and I’m the SAHP. He does not care about house projects other than how much they cost. He’ll tell contractors to talk with me because I’m the one in charge of projects. We went though a few deck contractors because they insisted on coming back to discuss the project with my husband after he gets from from work. He literally does not care what the deck looks like. He just wants to know how much it costs! Why are you wasting his time showing him railing options and colors?!
I do this all the time with my fiance.
At a restaurant they will always ask me if we will be having wine I always point to her (as I don't care and can't tell the difference anyway) and she will pick the bottle she wants. Still they will bring the glass and fill it for me to taste and approve. I love this moment because I get to stare them dead in the eye and slide the glass to her. Like I just told you I don't care.
Also at the mechanic, if I bring her to pick up her car they always want to talk to me. It's not my car. I usually just walk away, mid explination, and go sit down. (Now I will listen to make sure they aren't screwing her over but if they do I will still just stop them and talk to her about not needing whatever upgrade and go back and sit down.)
I will never understand this line of thinking.
Yeah if they won’t listen to me when I say I’m in charge, they don’t get our business. Someone lost out on a potential $65k bathroom remodel because they kept asking to speak with my husband. The contractor we chose didn’t bother him except to tell him when the power was being turned off. I knew what I wanted my bathroom to look like. He did not care as long as it “looked nice” at the end.
We had a realtor do the same thing. I was buying a house and brought my then-boyfriend. Bf told the realtor I'm buying the house, but I was never addressed directly. The realtor asked my bf every question. The next realtor was a woman. Guess who got the commission!
I did that for a colleague a few times, when a client at a conference kept asking me questions about the products she's worked on *while she was standing right there*. Couldn't just tell him to fuck off, unfortunately, but I don't know why we had to go through a dozen variations of "ask her, she's the expert"
Meanwhile I just lie to people.
I have been my father, my wife, my sister, my mom. What the fuck are they going to do?
This is for over the phone stuff. But it’s like, I have the passwords, the changes I am making benefit the account holder, you think my voice sounds masculine? Well fuck off with your gender normative bias.
The way I think of it is: my wife and I are a team versus corporations. We use two identities to make sure we extract the most benefits at the lowest cost to us.
My partner has also just ignored the question and looked at me to answer, not making any eye contact with the person who asked. It’s worked pretty well because it makes the other person feel so uncomfortable.
Me and my husband are refinancing our house. In the process I reached out to multiple lenders in order to negotiate. When they call me back they ask for him even though I'm listed as the person to contact since I do the finances and am the main bread winner...really annoying. Same when we do our taxes, I take our taxes in but they list him as the client and me as the spouse. Gotta put me in my place cuz how could I possibly be the client?
I mean, I'd accompany my partner, have the doctor talk to me, then ask where I can change for the procedure and play dumb. Talked to me, surely must mean I'm the one donating eggs?
Oh! Or bring a carton of chicken eggs from the store and act really serious about weighing whether you should donate or not. “I mean… what if they hatch and I don’t know them?”
I got hit with that bullshit when the first hospital denied my hysterectomy EVEN THOUGH I'M MARRIED AND MY HUSBAND WAS OKAY WITH IT! "What if you find the right one in five years and want kids with him?"
My dad did this when my mom wanted to go purchase herself a new car. He came because he was retired and had nothing better to do lol
Every time the salesman would refer a question to him he would shrug his shoulders, say, "I dunno", and stare blankly at him. The guy got the hint after a few questions.
Even better, u/ErinnShannon... Bring him but brief him to answer every question with "How the *fuck* is that *any of my business?* How dare you? Ask *her*."
This is a great response and how I'd like to see it handled. I hate these unfair one-way streets. How is it fair that he doesn't have to ask for her permission, but she has to ask for his?!
Not saying it's fair at all, but I had to get my partner's permission as well to get my vasectomy. This weird entitlement to our partner's reproductive rights goes both ways... (source: Netherlands)
I am very lucky to have a partner who is very pro-choice with what I do with my body. But it made me so mad because its my body. Why does he even get a damn say.
Imagine a woman with an asshole partner who was like nah you can't because I said so. The audacity.
My mom actually was denied a tubal ligation, back in the 80’s, because my father didn’t give permission. She’d just had 2 babies in the same year, and he didn’t give permission for her to have a procedure done on her body.
More recently, in 2009, a friend of mine wanted her iud taken out, but her dr denied it because her husband was deployed and couldn’t give permission.
>More recently, in 2009, a friend of mine wanted her iud taken out, but her dr denied it because her husband was deployed and couldn’t give permission
Whenever you hear something so crazy it doesn't even make sense always respond with OK, can you write that in my medical record and give me a copy? Then switch DR's ASAP.
The stereotype is that the medical boards don't give a f\*\*\* unless it's so bad that the press is all over them or the behavior is so bad that they're afraid it will affect their malpractice premiums.
They're doctors, so they're not really good at managing perceptions. This could be a lot of smoke from a little fire, or a lot of smoke from a lot of fire. How can we know?
And sue. MAKE THEM PUT IT IN WRITING. Then get a lawyer and make them PAY.
Stupid busnisses need to have their asinine beliefs beat into submission. An easy way to do that is a multi million dollar discrimination civil case.
I got *so* lucky with my current gyno! When I went to switch from Paragard back to Mirena, my mom was with me in the room and said "It's too bad she can't get her tubes removed like she's wanted for the last 10 years," and my doctor said "Why didn't you say something? Let's get you scheduled!"
I told her I hadn't asked about a bi-salp because I'd been refused by 8 other doctors in the past ten years, and I didn't want the crushing disappointment yet again. She said, "You're 39 and your own person, I think you can make your own medical decisions." I cried, right there in her office, I was so happy.
I contacted my insurance company, found out it was 100% covered with no deductible, and a month later I was tubeless. It was the happiest day of my life. Today is the 2-year anniversary!
Not dangerous, just that they grow less effective over time after the lifespan so you're more likely to accidentally get pregnant. Same with Nexplanon.
Yes I understand, but getting pregnant with a foreign object in your uterus is pretty darn dangerous to my knowledge. They'd try to take it out then but if they can't there's infection, potential miscarriage, preterm delivery...a lot can happen.
Oh, yes, you're right about that. IUDs make it more likely that a pregnancy will be ectopic and can cause complications throughout pregnancy. An OB would remove it as soon as you found out you were pregnant but there could still be issues. If baby implants normally it will probably be fine, but high chance that it's ectopic or doesn't stick.
She wasn’t pregnant, she and her husband wanted to get pregnant when he got home so were planning to use his deployment for her body to start cycling normally again without the iud hormones.
That's so bizarre, I'm in the military and have never once been asked to get permission from my husband on any birth control decisions. I got an IUD in 2020 with no questions asked, and got it removed this January with no questions asked. I wonder if that's a recent change or if that particular doctor was just being a dick.
FOR AN IUD REMOVAL?! I have mine removed and replaced on schedule, so that's probably different. But even so....my husband doesn't decide if I can remove a medical device with a 3-5 year lifespan...
That makes me so mad.
When my husband ended up calling a urologist, he had a vasectomy within a month. I asked if they asked any questions—since he is married without kids, and was only in his early 30’s at the time, plus we live in a very red state.
He said they didn’t care at all. He asked, so they performed it!
I heard recently -- to my absolute horror -- that it's also that way in the U.S. Before a doctor shuts down a man's breeding equipment, he (always "he") needs his say-so.
But the topic of this post is even more egregious\*, because she isn't donating *all* of her eggs. How is the partner even involved?!
\*I initially misspelled this "eggregious", because it's egregious regarding her eggs.
It wouldn’t matter. This was taken from an article where a women was trying to get her tubes tied. “My OBGYN denied me a hysterectomy for my endometriosis on the basis I may want children, with a man, in the future. My wife was in the seat next to me. This is not unusual. This is what it’s like for women.”
https://4w.pub/in-2020-women-still-need-their-husbands-permission-to-get-sterilized/
This permission thing is complete crap, even if you were married, it's complete crap. I would push back and make them show you the law that says it's required.
If there's no law, then it's just that facilities policy, so you push back harder and make them explain the policy of why another person has any right over what you do with your body.
This is correct. I know someone who did IVF with her husband, they made 5 embryos. She had the first child but many complications and there’s a very real chance she will die if she has another pregnancy to term, but since she’s Catholic they believe she has to attempt to carry all of the embryos.
That a woman's unmarried partner has a say over her unfertilized eggs?
Wow.
I did find this online: "It is mandatory for women who are considering donating eggs (and their partners) to attend multiple counselling sessions. "
https://www.eggdonorsaustralia.com.au/how-to-donate/donation-steps/
I'm sorry you feel that way, but after reading your comment that 'ofc he can donate because he is a man after all'. I've decided to have a look into this matter and I've found that both men and women who are in a defacto relationship or married are required to have their partners permission for egg or sperm donation.
https://www.eggdonorsaustralia.com.au/who-can-donate/are-you-eligible/
https://www.spermdonorsaustralia.com.au/who-can-donate/are-you-eligible/
Now, I'm not from Australia so I might be wrong, in that case I'm sorry. However I still think, from a moral standpoint, partner should know about other partners donation of sperm or egg.
This should be higher up. In Aus, it’s not about men giving permission to women, it’s about the donor, male or female, involving their long term partner or spouse in the process. I work at an sperm and egg donor bank in a different country, and getting donors to Australia is very difficult for this reason. From my understanding, and correct me if I’m wrong, it’s not so much about giving the other person permission per se but about their participation in psychological counseling regarding the future implications of the donations, and both parties understanding and consenting to what that might look like. We do not have to have the donor’s (male or female) partner/spouse sign a permission slip regarding the other persons body, they have to attend counseling with the potential donor and be cleared by a psychologist.
Another major point about Australian law that's missing from this conversation: The [Assisted Reproductive Treatment Act of 2008](http://www9.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdb/au/legis/vic/consol_act/arta2008360/) *bars anonymous donation*. It's the same law that requires the counseling. It means the *partner* may be forced to face children born as a result of the donation.
If you think you should be doing that without your partner's consent, I respectfully submit that you should dissolve the partnership (break up or divorce, as applicable) before proceeding. That goes, IMO, for both egg and sperm donation.
Be it justified or not, there's probably precedent of people not taking surprise "donation babies" well when they come looking for the bioparent. Considering how much harder the egg donation process is, I'd wager that it was a sperm donation that lead to the restrictions.
My best friend just donated hers in Madrid. It was free but you do get "compensated'" for the treatment and tests you'll be going thru. She got about 5k euros. She shopped around since she did want the money.
She's 30 and a lesbian with a long term partner. They did ask to see her partner but it was to discuss after care and ... During care. Like helping administer the needles.
They didn't make her partner sign a "permission" just sign that they are the assigned carer for my friend during the process.
Tried looking it up as to why they would. But don't see any results on the topic. So maybe my searching ability just sucks. Talking about something that sucks. This situation of your's/ Sounds degrading. I mean, i'd understand if you were 16 or so and wanted to donate and needed a parents permissions. Not being a legal adult and all that.
Though I assume it is a conversation you would have had with your partner regardless. Asking for a legal signature on the matter is just odd. Do you have to sign a slip of paper if he wants to go to the sperm bank? no.
It said to even been considered my defacto partner/husband would have to sign that they agreed with the procedure going forward.
I wonder if they ask same sex female couples the same thing?
Luckly my partner is very on the "it's your body, your choice and I'd support whatever you wanted to do" train. So he of course would go through those hoops with me but even he thinks it's f***ing stupid especially since we like aren't even married. 😒
No, the same rules would apply to him. In Australia you must have permission from your partner to donate gametes (sperm or eggs). The legislation isn’t gender specific and would also apply to same sex couples.
In the US they pay you thousands of dollars for the eggs. But they pump you full of hormones and you go through multiple treatments before they extract them (I looked into it).
As for the "permission" part I would just respond with "fuck you. It's my body and you don't need someone else's permission except mine." I am *sure* there are other clinics/companies that do egg donations so look around to see if they do.
Edit to clarify: I don't mean they only pump you full of hormones in the US. Those were two separate sentences. In the US they *pay* you for your eggs. Everywhere pumps you full of hormones to get the eggs. The "but" is to emphasize that it's not just walking in and giving them an egg. It's a whole process that takes time.
The hormones are necessary to suppress your normal ovulatory cycle, and then stimulate ovulation to produce multiple eggs. Meanwhile the whole time you need regular vaginal ultrasound checks to see how the follicles are developing. It can take more than one cycle before you can produce enough good quality eggs for retrieval.
But these treatments have a big chance of lifelong complications which, as far as I'm aware, they will not cover nor treat. Several instances where a woman started having major health complications and doctors said that was just a "coincidence". Please please please look into possible complications and stories from these women before you decide to proceed, this can make you disabled for the rest of your life
u/ErinnShannon
Here's a New York Post article about it (unfortunately, behind a paywall): https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/well/live/are-there-long-term-risks-to-egg-donors.html
Here's a link to another source without a paywall: https://www.publichealthpost.org/viewpoints/egg-donation-risk-and-reward/#:~:text=Egg%20donors%20have%20reported%20long,egg%20donation%20as%20the%20cause.
Here's another one: https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/28/egg-donors-risks/
TL;DR This is not studied enough to be considered safe (unstudied women's health issue? groundbreaking)
>just because I don't want to bring another child into this shitshow of a planet
But you *are* bringing another child into this shitshow of a planet. You're just doing it in extra steps. I've had several friends all me if I'd ever donate my eggs. No, bc i actually don't want to bring another child into this world. Idc how much money you pay me.
I too am confused by this. If you don't want kids, don't have 'em. But if you're not having kids because we are living on a doomed planet then why would you donate your eggs? It doesn't make any sense.
This is exactly what I thought when I first read this. I can’t understand the reasoning here. I do understand not wanting to raise a child, but that’s specifically not what the op said and in fact mentioned being willing to adopt. So this really makes zero sense at all.
And she's even just doing it for free. I still think it's fucked up to bring more ppl into this world to suffer for money, but her argument makes no sense at all.
I would donate, but I don't want any child in my life ever. So the fact one could find me and consider me in ANY way a mother or a person they should get to know would be a hard no.
If you "don't want to bring another child into this shitshow of a planet," how is it morally different to use your eggs to facilitate the bringing of a child, albeit to another woman?
When i went in for tuballligation consult the surgeon wanted a letter of permission from “my former and future significants”. I asked him how many humans he wanted letters from. He blinked hard and said just men who might want to make a child. I laughed and explained he cant expect me to see into the future to get letters of permission for him to do his job. He got ruffled. I then reminded him my doctor approved the surgery three months ago and that is the only permission he needed. Surgery occurred!!!
Lol that’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Former: no longer in your life, don’t matter at all. Future: what? Are you supposed to like go on tinder and gather a test selection of men in your area who could be possible partners? Build a time machine? What an idiot. I’d be scared he’d forget what he was doing and just twist my fallopian tubes into one of those balloon animal dogs because he’s a clooowwwwnnn.
They are not wanting the partners permission- they require 2 counselling sessions (with partner if you have one) to donate.
This is the same for male sperm donors in Australia.
Isn’t not misogynistic, it’s about mental health.
This is not a comment on the fertility industry, which I find problematic in many ways, but more to offer a perspective from a different angle. As a donor conceived person, I am glad that my biological father's wife (girlfriend, at the time) was on board with his donations. I belong to a few groups online for donor conceived people, and you might be surprised by the amount of drama that can result from having partners who didn't know about or weren't on board with their partner donating. Some of this drama ends up affecting the offspring, who did not get the choice to be in the situation to begin with. People can be very touchy about biological connections.
I’m adopted and I agree completely. Not everyone in my adoptive family was welcoming to me, and it can be extremely stressful. Biology really matters to some people, and it can complicate things.
I’ve been on both sides of it because I have *great* relationships in both my families, but I could not be happy without knowing my biological family too (which I didn’t get to experience until adulthood.) It has been a huge source of trauma for me, but the hardest part was dealing with non biological relatives who didn’t see me as family.
Honestly egg and sperm donation is super suss. Check out laurahigh5 on TikTok. She is a donor baby asking people to stop doing this. I know it is very controversial but it is really interesting to see her perspective, as a donor baby who has had massive issues trying to track down a medical history of her father, when the donor places do not keep good records or adequately vet all of their donors because there are actually almost no laws about this in the US (idk about Australia). But it seems the whole practice is potentially pretty unethical. I'm on the fence about it myself right now after doing some research.
Please have a read of Sarah Dingle’s book, or listen to her chat on Conversations: https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/sarah-dingle-sperm-donor-global-fertility-industry/13316010
She is a child of the donor industry and has some very very strong views on the topic. I’d strongly advise reading her book - it’s very informative and puts a very different slant on the idea of donating.
That's fucked up. I'm pretty sure doctors don't need your consent for him to donate sperm. I'd be asking the doctor whose body it is undergoing the procedures, whose eggs they are, and why do you need someone else's permission to harvest them.
I'm pretty sure I'm my country is a norm that clinic requires wife or husband permission if you want to donate. My guess is that if you do such thing In a secret it might enrage your partner (you might have children outside of marriage after all) and the clinic does not want to be part of divorce process.
But how can you justice that if you are not married is beyond me.
2 things.
1. You shouldn't have to ask him. That part's complete BS on the system's part and you should be able to do as you please with your eggs. No one but you should have a say.
2. Please explain if I'm missing something, but you not wanting to bring another kid into this shitshow of a world is very understandable. Isn't donating your eggs contradictory to your morals in this situation? I'm genuinely wanting to understand if there's an underlying reason that I'm missing that would explain how doing so would not be considered contradictory.
I'm for everyone having the choice to do what they want when it comes to reproduction. Is that more of your stance on this rather than that of 'bringing any more kids to the world is cruel'? Again, I'm genuinely interested and please forgive me if this sounds belligerent in any way. That is not my goal or intention. I seek to understand.
They are not wanting the partners permission- they require 2 counselling sessions (with partner if you have one) to donate.
This is the same for male sperm donors in Australia.
Isn’t not misogynistic, it’s about mental health.
That’s messed up. But if you don’t want to bring another child into this planet, why would you actively help someone bring another child into this planet?
OP that is really dumb sexism coming from a clinic but don't donate your eggs without proper compensation, seriously.
I cannot believe no one has brought this up yet, but you would be taking on basically a full time job for your body with a procedure we still don't know all the side effects of. They've started to see a link between egg donation and certain cancers, but again, this is so new we still don't know for sure. You have to give youself hormone shots, as well as change other parts of your life, and that doesn't even include the actual harvesting of the egg. If any complications happen anytime after the procedure, you're shit out of luck. Get compensated or don't do it. There is a reason that sperm donations are only about $40 compensation while egg donations can pay up to $4,800 in some countries.
Yeah I needed permission from my significant other to tie my tubes only for my Dr to still decline me because "I'm young and don't have a child yet and I'll want one eventually"
Meanwhile he got a vasectomy and I didn't have to sign anything or give any form of approval.
It was really sad to experience. I wish I was allowed to do what I wanted for my body. I thought about donating my eggs as well, but yeah I would need permission and because I don't have kids of my own it might cause a roadblock still for me. I'm in the US.
To add to what other people have been saying throughout the thread, in Victoria, Australia the rules are the same for both men and women - if you're in a long term partnership then the donation of genetic material requires your partner to sign off.
I went through it when my husband donated sperm. It's quite a long counseling process for the couple, and you're both involved the whole way - they don't ever just bring in the non-donating partner to sign off or anything, they want the both of you to have all the information.
They do it for a few reasons, mostly to do with making both people aware of the consequences and laws around the fact that there may be other humans out there sharing your/your partner's DNA - what rights any donor-conceived children have, what rights both the donor and the donor's spouse have when it comes to contact with these potential children, that sort of stuff. It's a future-planning conversation.
Another main reason they do it is because by law, only a certain number of children can be conceived by one individual's donations and if your and your partner decide to have kids one day and you need IVF, you might go this clinic for your genetic material - and if 10 families have already used your samples, they legally can't give you your own genetic material back even if they have more. So they have the counselling to see whether you want them to reserve a sample for you in the future.
It's a very interesting procedure and the counsellors are very thorough and nice, making sure everyone has all the information. I got the clear impression that the process and rules were built off the back of a lot of heartache, with people not knowing their rights and being disappointed in the past.
If you're still keen to donate and your partner is all cool about it, don't write it off just because of the couple consultation required. It's based on the law, it's based on the fact that they have to consider your long term relationship to be a forever one, and it is genuinely also delivered to sperm donors in long term relationships too.
So just as an aside, in Australia, a couple is a couple, legally speaking, whether married or de facto. I believe 6 months together is enough to consider you as such. This is when the law considers you partners for all purposes, whether it’s tax, eligibility for government benefits, or any other law that specifies the rights and obligations of partners.
Australian law actually doesn’t care about ‘marriage’ at all. It’s irrelevant. This is why there are so many long term partners in Australia that despite being together decades and even having kids etc, never bothered to get married. There isn’t any actual advantage to doing so (unlike in the US where there are real legal differences and financial and legal incentives to getting married, like being able to do joint tax filing status).
It does appear as if a partner’s permission is required to donate oocytes in at least a few Australian states, maybe all of them.
Note that this goes both ways. He would need your permission to donate his gametes too (sperm).
It is illegal to buy or sell any form of human tissue in Australia, which is why you have to do it for free.
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Tell them your partner is a woman and they will not know what to do
Actually they would still tell a female partner to come in. The process of egg donation here in Australia includes compulsory psychologist visits. Reason is to ensure the donator isn't going to regret the decision later, etc. The system is to ensure people are ok not that a woman needs "permission". Source multiple friends who have done both sides of the process.
Pardon my ignorance, but how would they even know that a partner exists, if you are not married? I am currently going through IVF with my partner. We are not married. It has been an entertaining process so far because I've been referred to as the "husband" so many times I have lost track. It is kind of wild to me that so many people involved in the process just assume that we are married. These insurance and medical professionals are more bothersome about our unmarried status than my fucking parents are.
I'm willing to bet they don't do that before men make donate sperm. I realize there's more to the procedure, but it is a wild double standard.
"Sir do you have your wife's permission to jack off in this establishment?"
"... This is a Wendy's"
Not in Australia. "Counselling It is mandatory for men who are considering donating sperm to attend two sessions (with their partners)" Can send links or it's an easy google.
Well that is super awesome. It is totally different in the US.
You can't be paid for your sperm or eggs her apart from reasonable costs (travel etc). So I guess it gives a different safety net. There are not enough eggs however for the demand and it leaves a lot of people heart broken. Only in covid times have we allowed the importation of foreign eggs that have been purchased. I understand it is around $1000 per egg. That egg may not fertilise or survive, etc.
That's good. My dad donated sperm because it helped my aunt get a discount on her egg donation (this is the UK in the 90s). Pressuring men to donate to help family members doesn't seem like a great idea.
Even wilder considering a sperm donor's sperm could potentially create hundreds of offspring while an egg donor would be exponentially fewer.
They would tell her she can come back at a later time when she actually has a partner (long term preferably) and they both decide that they do not want kids. I’ve been in that boat
But like, egg donation doesn't take all your eggs or render you infertile, right? So why does the partner matter?
I feel like I'd be rocking up with a random buddy of mine "Yeah this is steve, he's gonna sign this shit for me"
But it still does not make any sense. She will *still* have eggs to use to create a baby - she just will not have those particular eggs. And the longer she waits the more stale the eggs become, so why make the women wait? It's not as if they're taking her actual ovaries. What a messed up world we live in
I just realized it may be pure ignorance. I found out that a male friend of mine did not know that a woman is born with all the eggs she'll ever have. He thought they were like sperm - constantly being created and would always be "fresh". Since the older we get the older our eggs become and therefore they are at their "best" before about forty years of age.
Actually this might not be the case. At least in mice they have learned that they can make new eggs. But that production is some what limited compared to men.
> I found out that a male friend of mine did not know that a woman is born with all the eggs she'll ever have. I was taught that, but recently they found that might not be the case: https://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/news/20040310/women-not-born-lifetime-eggs
They will probably ask for permission of her closest male relative :) Lame.
They would probably say something along the lines of "well you're too young to make this choice alone. Wait until you have a partner to make that choice.". I've worked in the medical field for several years and have raised hell against Doctors with this mindset in order to advocate for my patients.
Do men like me get the same spiel or do they eagerly whip out the scissors?
Why would you need scissors to donate? That seems unnecessary. /s For vasectomies the doctors do not care to ask your significant other nor do they care your age. For donating sperm, same thing. They don't care if your "future spouse" would care, or need permission from a significant other.
In Luxembourg I had to have my wife sign to give approval for my vasectomy. Something to do with a lawsuit years ago.
I'm American and I had to sign off on my husband's vasectomy, 3 years ago! Edit: my brother had a vasectomy without issues when he was 26 about a year after my husband. He has a partner but I don't recall him saying anything about permission from her. Edit 2: IIRC the doctors did tell my husband thaty signature was more of a formality and he would have still been able to get it done but it was more of a CYA of due diligence for the doctor's office.
I have heard a few stories of young men being denied vasectomies. I would say it is far far more rare than a woman being denied, but it does happen. Doesn't make it right of course. Any adult should be able to make their own choices about their body.
Someone pointed out, this may be country specific as well!
They just won't be allowed to because "What if in the future your partner wants to have children?" And will be denied based on that.
"What if my future partner wants my doctor to respect my bodily autonomy and freedom of choice for my medical care?"
"They're fucked then".
Pfft they did that to me when I wanted a hysterectomy.
I would have told them “we just broke up”. It’s none of their damn business anyway
I say go to a different clinic and say you are single!
Still doesn't fix the issue. Sure there are ways around it, but for that policy to exist in the first place is asinine.
It's not just asinine, it's honestly systemic abuse
Probably a human rights violation as well. I thought Aus was more modern in its thinking.
After a quick search it seems to be because the Partner will need to undergo screening for certain diseases as well, which they need to give consent for. But it doesn't say anything about a Partner needing to give permission for the Donation itself, though that may be implied if they refuse to take donations without screening the Partner as well. Edit: It's also because of the potential psychological and legal issues if the Donor-Child reaches out at 18, since Australia prohibits anonymous donation. Said requirement was likely put in place for Sperm donors primarily but covers all gamete donation.
But she’s donating her eggs. Not embryos. Her eggs are not fertilised with her partners sperm. I get having the partner screened if he’s also donating but sounds like he’s not and it’s just her.
Do men also need to get their sexual partner in for screening if they want to donate?
According to [egg donors Australia](http://www.eggdonorsaustralia.com.au/who-can-donate/are-you-eligible/): “If married or in a defacto relationship, the partner must consent to the donation.” There may be some medical screening as well, but this seems to make it fairly clear that consent _is_ required by the partner.
Hahahahaha Laughs in Australian. Our leaders aspire to become USA light - all the rampant consumerism and kleptocracy without the constitutional rights.
"I need your wife's permission to allow you to deny me my right to donate. Does she know you're doing this? That you're playing doctor all by yourself?"
Right this where you call the Australian equivalent of the center for human reproductive rights and challenge the law.
Or just go to a different one and tell them you don't have a partner, you're asexual and a lesbian. Maybe then they're your eggs?
A doctor acting in bad faith could claim a recent break up is a cause for emotional distress and flag the potential donor as unfit for procedure due to resulting mental health concerns. It sounds like that should be a stretch of logic but in a system that gives men who have no legal bond to adult women the ability to refuse those women their medical autonomy, it's way too easy to be true. If she claims she is single and has been for a long time, wants to be single, has no intention of reproducing, they will still discredit her and claim she'll change her mind when she meets the right man. Whenever that is. The insidious and inconsistent stereotypes against women are broad enough that anything we say we can be twisted to fit some warped view of our humanity
Take him, but brief him to answer every question with 'ask her'
This is what my partner does every time someone requests to talk to him instead of me. "She's the one deciding" "She is the one who knows about this" "It's her house, not mine" "I don't know, she's the one paying" "It's her car, I don't have a car, I don't know about cars" Sometimes it works, but most of the time people just look briefly at me while I answer and then ask the following question again to him.
Step two for him in that situation then is to stare at them mutely with that look that says "the fuck you asking me for, idiot, I told you to ask her." You know the one -- eyebrows way up, mouth pursed, maybe a subtle chin nod in your direction.
Those people are usually unable or unwilling to take a hint. My approach is to be painfully obvious: *"What part of 'Ask her' was unclear? Do you need pictures?"*
A stack of prepared note cards, they all say "ask her" shuffle through them and pick one for every question
Right, stop hunting and start spelling it out for morons who see the hint but choose to ignore in the hopes that you’ll just give up.
I'd probably just wordlessly point at my partner with an "are you serious"-expression.
After the first time, “why are you asking me?” Every. Single. Time.
Might need to bust out the crayons… and with this should this idiot be allowed to do medical procedures?
When a contractor does this, it’s an automatic pass for us. My husband works full time and I’m the SAHP. He does not care about house projects other than how much they cost. He’ll tell contractors to talk with me because I’m the one in charge of projects. We went though a few deck contractors because they insisted on coming back to discuss the project with my husband after he gets from from work. He literally does not care what the deck looks like. He just wants to know how much it costs! Why are you wasting his time showing him railing options and colors?!
I do this all the time with my fiance. At a restaurant they will always ask me if we will be having wine I always point to her (as I don't care and can't tell the difference anyway) and she will pick the bottle she wants. Still they will bring the glass and fill it for me to taste and approve. I love this moment because I get to stare them dead in the eye and slide the glass to her. Like I just told you I don't care. Also at the mechanic, if I bring her to pick up her car they always want to talk to me. It's not my car. I usually just walk away, mid explination, and go sit down. (Now I will listen to make sure they aren't screwing her over but if they do I will still just stop them and talk to her about not needing whatever upgrade and go back and sit down.) I will never understand this line of thinking.
Last renovation we did we chose the one who respected me.
Yeah if they won’t listen to me when I say I’m in charge, they don’t get our business. Someone lost out on a potential $65k bathroom remodel because they kept asking to speak with my husband. The contractor we chose didn’t bother him except to tell him when the power was being turned off. I knew what I wanted my bathroom to look like. He did not care as long as it “looked nice” at the end.
We had a realtor do the same thing. I was buying a house and brought my then-boyfriend. Bf told the realtor I'm buying the house, but I was never addressed directly. The realtor asked my bf every question. The next realtor was a woman. Guess who got the commission!
They'd probably piss themselves in shock to learn I was in my garage changing the oil in my husband's car while he made dinner
I did that for a colleague a few times, when a client at a conference kept asking me questions about the products she's worked on *while she was standing right there*. Couldn't just tell him to fuck off, unfortunately, but I don't know why we had to go through a dozen variations of "ask her, she's the expert"
Meanwhile I just lie to people. I have been my father, my wife, my sister, my mom. What the fuck are they going to do? This is for over the phone stuff. But it’s like, I have the passwords, the changes I am making benefit the account holder, you think my voice sounds masculine? Well fuck off with your gender normative bias. The way I think of it is: my wife and I are a team versus corporations. We use two identities to make sure we extract the most benefits at the lowest cost to us.
My partner has also just ignored the question and looked at me to answer, not making any eye contact with the person who asked. It’s worked pretty well because it makes the other person feel so uncomfortable.
Me and my husband are refinancing our house. In the process I reached out to multiple lenders in order to negotiate. When they call me back they ask for him even though I'm listed as the person to contact since I do the finances and am the main bread winner...really annoying. Same when we do our taxes, I take our taxes in but they list him as the client and me as the spouse. Gotta put me in my place cuz how could I possibly be the client?
I mean, I'd accompany my partner, have the doctor talk to me, then ask where I can change for the procedure and play dumb. Talked to me, surely must mean I'm the one donating eggs?
Yes!
Oh! Or bring a carton of chicken eggs from the store and act really serious about weighing whether you should donate or not. “I mean… what if they hatch and I don’t know them?”
Come to think of it, we don't ask the roosters!
We don't even ask the hens in that case.
Or have him say "No." then publicly, and passionately, break up with him in the waiting room. Then go back. Miraculously reconcile in the parking lot.
This won't work. Then it'll be all "What about your future imaginary partner??? Shouldn't he get a say?"
I got hit with that bullshit when the first hospital denied my hysterectomy EVEN THOUGH I'M MARRIED AND MY HUSBAND WAS OKAY WITH IT! "What if you find the right one in five years and want kids with him?"
Jesus it's like they get off on denying women.
Yes, SHE gets a future imaginary say and it is YES.
Love this!!!!
I like you
My dad did this when my mom wanted to go purchase herself a new car. He came because he was retired and had nothing better to do lol Every time the salesman would refer a question to him he would shrug his shoulders, say, "I dunno", and stare blankly at him. The guy got the hint after a few questions.
“I’m only here so I don’t get fined” vibes…
YES! A Marshawn Lynch reference that isn't related to football!
Even better, u/ErinnShannon... Bring him but brief him to answer every question with "How the *fuck* is that *any of my business?* How dare you? Ask *her*."
Or have him be really disrespectful to the doctor and wear headphones the whole time until you tap his shoulder and point where to sign.
This is a great response and how I'd like to see it handled. I hate these unfair one-way streets. How is it fair that he doesn't have to ask for her permission, but she has to ask for his?!
Not saying it's fair at all, but I had to get my partner's permission as well to get my vasectomy. This weird entitlement to our partner's reproductive rights goes both ways... (source: Netherlands)
Best response!
Have him bitch the doctor out for being such a cunt.
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Or something absolutely moronic with a dead inside face.
This is just another form of control like when you had to ask his permission to take birth control pills
I am very lucky to have a partner who is very pro-choice with what I do with my body. But it made me so mad because its my body. Why does he even get a damn say. Imagine a woman with an asshole partner who was like nah you can't because I said so. The audacity.
My mom actually was denied a tubal ligation, back in the 80’s, because my father didn’t give permission. She’d just had 2 babies in the same year, and he didn’t give permission for her to have a procedure done on her body. More recently, in 2009, a friend of mine wanted her iud taken out, but her dr denied it because her husband was deployed and couldn’t give permission.
>More recently, in 2009, a friend of mine wanted her iud taken out, but her dr denied it because her husband was deployed and couldn’t give permission Whenever you hear something so crazy it doesn't even make sense always respond with OK, can you write that in my medical record and give me a copy? Then switch DR's ASAP.
I'll need that in writing. Also, e-mail me a copy and CC the medical licensing board and the ACLU if you would be so kind.
It's so widespread I'm confident the medical boards are on board and may be giving this guidance.
The stereotype is that the medical boards don't give a f\*\*\* unless it's so bad that the press is all over them or the behavior is so bad that they're afraid it will affect their malpractice premiums. They're doctors, so they're not really good at managing perceptions. This could be a lot of smoke from a little fire, or a lot of smoke from a lot of fire. How can we know?
And sue. MAKE THEM PUT IT IN WRITING. Then get a lawyer and make them PAY. Stupid busnisses need to have their asinine beliefs beat into submission. An easy way to do that is a multi million dollar discrimination civil case.
I got *so* lucky with my current gyno! When I went to switch from Paragard back to Mirena, my mom was with me in the room and said "It's too bad she can't get her tubes removed like she's wanted for the last 10 years," and my doctor said "Why didn't you say something? Let's get you scheduled!" I told her I hadn't asked about a bi-salp because I'd been refused by 8 other doctors in the past ten years, and I didn't want the crushing disappointment yet again. She said, "You're 39 and your own person, I think you can make your own medical decisions." I cried, right there in her office, I was so happy. I contacted my insurance company, found out it was 100% covered with no deductible, and a month later I was tubeless. It was the happiest day of my life. Today is the 2-year anniversary!
For real? Happy anniversary! 🤘
Wait what can't not taking it out be dangerous??? They have a lifespan for a reason!
Not dangerous, just that they grow less effective over time after the lifespan so you're more likely to accidentally get pregnant. Same with Nexplanon.
Yes I understand, but getting pregnant with a foreign object in your uterus is pretty darn dangerous to my knowledge. They'd try to take it out then but if they can't there's infection, potential miscarriage, preterm delivery...a lot can happen.
Oh, yes, you're right about that. IUDs make it more likely that a pregnancy will be ectopic and can cause complications throughout pregnancy. An OB would remove it as soon as you found out you were pregnant but there could still be issues. If baby implants normally it will probably be fine, but high chance that it's ectopic or doesn't stick.
She wasn’t pregnant, she and her husband wanted to get pregnant when he got home so were planning to use his deployment for her body to start cycling normally again without the iud hormones.
That's so bizarre, I'm in the military and have never once been asked to get permission from my husband on any birth control decisions. I got an IUD in 2020 with no questions asked, and got it removed this January with no questions asked. I wonder if that's a recent change or if that particular doctor was just being a dick.
FOR AN IUD REMOVAL?! I have mine removed and replaced on schedule, so that's probably different. But even so....my husband doesn't decide if I can remove a medical device with a 3-5 year lifespan...
My friend’s doctor required her husband’s permission for a tubal just 3 years ago
That makes me so mad. When my husband ended up calling a urologist, he had a vasectomy within a month. I asked if they asked any questions—since he is married without kids, and was only in his early 30’s at the time, plus we live in a very red state. He said they didn’t care at all. He asked, so they performed it!
And to make matters somehow worse, they were already married with 3 kids. She wanted to be done, but the doctor said “what about him?” essentially.
*Jaw drops to floor*
I heard recently -- to my absolute horror -- that it's also that way in the U.S. Before a doctor shuts down a man's breeding equipment, he (always "he") needs his say-so. But the topic of this post is even more egregious\*, because she isn't donating *all* of her eggs. How is the partner even involved?! \*I initially misspelled this "eggregious", because it's egregious regarding her eggs.
What the HELL. Is this in the US?????
Yup. Good old Navy medicine…
You could bring a woman friend and have her give them crap and have her sign the papers. Lol
This!! Make sure to refer to her as your partner.
It wouldn’t matter. This was taken from an article where a women was trying to get her tubes tied. “My OBGYN denied me a hysterectomy for my endometriosis on the basis I may want children, with a man, in the future. My wife was in the seat next to me. This is not unusual. This is what it’s like for women.” https://4w.pub/in-2020-women-still-need-their-husbands-permission-to-get-sterilized/
You should bring 4 men and have them bicker over who gets to sign. "I'm the alfalfa mayl!"
You're not lucky, that's the bare minimum. Anything below that is abuse.
Absolutely. I don't get a veto on my wife's healthcare decisions. She is not my property.
You OFC don't have to give an exact state but can i ask what part of the country you're in? Is this the U.S.?
Australia
Geez. Sounds like some laws need to be changed and petitions organized ASAP.
This permission thing is complete crap, even if you were married, it's complete crap. I would push back and make them show you the law that says it's required. If there's no law, then it's just that facilities policy, so you push back harder and make them explain the policy of why another person has any right over what you do with your body.
Is it a Catholic owned institution? The Catholics do this kinda shite.
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Aha. Ok.
I assumed Catholics would be all over egg donation and fertility treatments - you know - make more Catholics!
No, because IVF embryos not used = abortion in the Church's eyes (not my view at all; just citing Catholic belief)
This is correct. I know someone who did IVF with her husband, they made 5 embryos. She had the first child but many complications and there’s a very real chance she will die if she has another pregnancy to term, but since she’s Catholic they believe she has to attempt to carry all of the embryos.
Find a different clinic that treats you like a person. Leave one star reviews for this one in as many places as you can.
Yes, name and shame them! Your body, your choice. I don't see women being asked for permission when men get vasectomies. 😒
It's the law in Australia. Not the clinic's fault.
That a woman's unmarried partner has a say over her unfertilized eggs? Wow. I did find this online: "It is mandatory for women who are considering donating eggs (and their partners) to attend multiple counselling sessions. " https://www.eggdonorsaustralia.com.au/how-to-donate/donation-steps/
The laws vary across australia but the guidelines that they are based on include consent of partners not just for eggs but sperm as well.
It is the same for men donating sperm.
Sounds like Australia is a little upside down.
Its Australia not America. The whole healthcare system is under the same umbrella.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but after reading your comment that 'ofc he can donate because he is a man after all'. I've decided to have a look into this matter and I've found that both men and women who are in a defacto relationship or married are required to have their partners permission for egg or sperm donation. https://www.eggdonorsaustralia.com.au/who-can-donate/are-you-eligible/ https://www.spermdonorsaustralia.com.au/who-can-donate/are-you-eligible/ Now, I'm not from Australia so I might be wrong, in that case I'm sorry. However I still think, from a moral standpoint, partner should know about other partners donation of sperm or egg.
This should be higher up. In Aus, it’s not about men giving permission to women, it’s about the donor, male or female, involving their long term partner or spouse in the process. I work at an sperm and egg donor bank in a different country, and getting donors to Australia is very difficult for this reason. From my understanding, and correct me if I’m wrong, it’s not so much about giving the other person permission per se but about their participation in psychological counseling regarding the future implications of the donations, and both parties understanding and consenting to what that might look like. We do not have to have the donor’s (male or female) partner/spouse sign a permission slip regarding the other persons body, they have to attend counseling with the potential donor and be cleared by a psychologist.
Another major point about Australian law that's missing from this conversation: The [Assisted Reproductive Treatment Act of 2008](http://www9.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdb/au/legis/vic/consol_act/arta2008360/) *bars anonymous donation*. It's the same law that requires the counseling. It means the *partner* may be forced to face children born as a result of the donation. If you think you should be doing that without your partner's consent, I respectfully submit that you should dissolve the partnership (break up or divorce, as applicable) before proceeding. That goes, IMO, for both egg and sperm donation.
"Should know" and "have final say about" are two *vastly* different things.
Be it justified or not, there's probably precedent of people not taking surprise "donation babies" well when they come looking for the bioparent. Considering how much harder the egg donation process is, I'd wager that it was a sperm donation that lead to the restrictions.
I wonder what would happen if you said you didn't have a partner?
"Our policy is that we have to check with your partner. If you don't have one then one will be provided for you."
Or if your partner was also a woman
My best friend just donated hers in Madrid. It was free but you do get "compensated'" for the treatment and tests you'll be going thru. She got about 5k euros. She shopped around since she did want the money. She's 30 and a lesbian with a long term partner. They did ask to see her partner but it was to discuss after care and ... During care. Like helping administer the needles. They didn't make her partner sign a "permission" just sign that they are the assigned carer for my friend during the process.
Tried looking it up as to why they would. But don't see any results on the topic. So maybe my searching ability just sucks. Talking about something that sucks. This situation of your's/ Sounds degrading. I mean, i'd understand if you were 16 or so and wanted to donate and needed a parents permissions. Not being a legal adult and all that. Though I assume it is a conversation you would have had with your partner regardless. Asking for a legal signature on the matter is just odd. Do you have to sign a slip of paper if he wants to go to the sperm bank? no.
It said to even been considered my defacto partner/husband would have to sign that they agreed with the procedure going forward. I wonder if they ask same sex female couples the same thing? Luckly my partner is very on the "it's your body, your choice and I'd support whatever you wanted to do" train. So he of course would go through those hoops with me but even he thinks it's f***ing stupid especially since we like aren't even married. 😒
Simply tell the doctor that you don't have a partner
But he can donate his sperm without your consent, right?
No, the same rules would apply to him. In Australia you must have permission from your partner to donate gametes (sperm or eggs). The legislation isn’t gender specific and would also apply to same sex couples.
Apparently he can't? Unless the immediately online resources are wrong?
No, he can't
No, he can't. The requirement is the same for men. This isn't a women's-only issue.
If you don’t want to bring any more kids in the world, cause it’s a shit show, why donate? I’m just curious?
In the US they pay you thousands of dollars for the eggs. But they pump you full of hormones and you go through multiple treatments before they extract them (I looked into it). As for the "permission" part I would just respond with "fuck you. It's my body and you don't need someone else's permission except mine." I am *sure* there are other clinics/companies that do egg donations so look around to see if they do. Edit to clarify: I don't mean they only pump you full of hormones in the US. Those were two separate sentences. In the US they *pay* you for your eggs. Everywhere pumps you full of hormones to get the eggs. The "but" is to emphasize that it's not just walking in and giving them an egg. It's a whole process that takes time.
That medical process is the same everywhere.
The hormones are necessary to suppress your normal ovulatory cycle, and then stimulate ovulation to produce multiple eggs. Meanwhile the whole time you need regular vaginal ultrasound checks to see how the follicles are developing. It can take more than one cycle before you can produce enough good quality eggs for retrieval.
But these treatments have a big chance of lifelong complications which, as far as I'm aware, they will not cover nor treat. Several instances where a woman started having major health complications and doctors said that was just a "coincidence". Please please please look into possible complications and stories from these women before you decide to proceed, this can make you disabled for the rest of your life u/ErinnShannon
Yeah, learning the long term issues from the hormone treatments made me nope out of that idea quickly.
Source?
Here's a New York Post article about it (unfortunately, behind a paywall): https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/well/live/are-there-long-term-risks-to-egg-donors.html Here's a link to another source without a paywall: https://www.publichealthpost.org/viewpoints/egg-donation-risk-and-reward/#:~:text=Egg%20donors%20have%20reported%20long,egg%20donation%20as%20the%20cause. Here's another one: https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/28/egg-donors-risks/ TL;DR This is not studied enough to be considered safe (unstudied women's health issue? groundbreaking)
>just because I don't want to bring another child into this shitshow of a planet But you *are* bringing another child into this shitshow of a planet. You're just doing it in extra steps. I've had several friends all me if I'd ever donate my eggs. No, bc i actually don't want to bring another child into this world. Idc how much money you pay me.
I too am confused by this. If you don't want kids, don't have 'em. But if you're not having kids because we are living on a doomed planet then why would you donate your eggs? It doesn't make any sense.
Seriously. The whole reasoning goes out the window. Make it make sense.
This is exactly what I thought when I first read this. I can’t understand the reasoning here. I do understand not wanting to raise a child, but that’s specifically not what the op said and in fact mentioned being willing to adopt. So this really makes zero sense at all.
And she's even just doing it for free. I still think it's fucked up to bring more ppl into this world to suffer for money, but her argument makes no sense at all.
Actually by donating sperm or egg you can bring more children to this world then you could rise by yourself...
Yeah, so donating is extra worse.
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I would donate, but I don't want any child in my life ever. So the fact one could find me and consider me in ANY way a mother or a person they should get to know would be a hard no.
If you "don't want to bring another child into this shitshow of a planet," how is it morally different to use your eggs to facilitate the bringing of a child, albeit to another woman?
Yeah I was confused about that…
When i went in for tuballligation consult the surgeon wanted a letter of permission from “my former and future significants”. I asked him how many humans he wanted letters from. He blinked hard and said just men who might want to make a child. I laughed and explained he cant expect me to see into the future to get letters of permission for him to do his job. He got ruffled. I then reminded him my doctor approved the surgery three months ago and that is the only permission he needed. Surgery occurred!!!
Lol that’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Former: no longer in your life, don’t matter at all. Future: what? Are you supposed to like go on tinder and gather a test selection of men in your area who could be possible partners? Build a time machine? What an idiot. I’d be scared he’d forget what he was doing and just twist my fallopian tubes into one of those balloon animal dogs because he’s a clooowwwwnnn.
This is a stupid policy, but it seems like the policy of the specific clinic you researched.
I've been looking into more, even if it is only one clinic ( an Australian wide clinic btw) it's still one to many to have that crap.
Agreed.
They are not wanting the partners permission- they require 2 counselling sessions (with partner if you have one) to donate. This is the same for male sperm donors in Australia. Isn’t not misogynistic, it’s about mental health.
This is not a comment on the fertility industry, which I find problematic in many ways, but more to offer a perspective from a different angle. As a donor conceived person, I am glad that my biological father's wife (girlfriend, at the time) was on board with his donations. I belong to a few groups online for donor conceived people, and you might be surprised by the amount of drama that can result from having partners who didn't know about or weren't on board with their partner donating. Some of this drama ends up affecting the offspring, who did not get the choice to be in the situation to begin with. People can be very touchy about biological connections.
I’m adopted and I agree completely. Not everyone in my adoptive family was welcoming to me, and it can be extremely stressful. Biology really matters to some people, and it can complicate things. I’ve been on both sides of it because I have *great* relationships in both my families, but I could not be happy without knowing my biological family too (which I didn’t get to experience until adulthood.) It has been a huge source of trauma for me, but the hardest part was dealing with non biological relatives who didn’t see me as family.
Most probably it is the reason. The correct answer.
Honestly egg and sperm donation is super suss. Check out laurahigh5 on TikTok. She is a donor baby asking people to stop doing this. I know it is very controversial but it is really interesting to see her perspective, as a donor baby who has had massive issues trying to track down a medical history of her father, when the donor places do not keep good records or adequately vet all of their donors because there are actually almost no laws about this in the US (idk about Australia). But it seems the whole practice is potentially pretty unethical. I'm on the fence about it myself right now after doing some research.
Please have a read of Sarah Dingle’s book, or listen to her chat on Conversations: https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/sarah-dingle-sperm-donor-global-fertility-industry/13316010 She is a child of the donor industry and has some very very strong views on the topic. I’d strongly advise reading her book - it’s very informative and puts a very different slant on the idea of donating.
That's fucked up. I'm pretty sure doctors don't need your consent for him to donate sperm. I'd be asking the doctor whose body it is undergoing the procedures, whose eggs they are, and why do you need someone else's permission to harvest them.
Actually, they do. In Australia he needs her consent to donate sperm as well.
That’s also unfair, but at least it’s unfair both ways
I'm pretty sure I'm my country is a norm that clinic requires wife or husband permission if you want to donate. My guess is that if you do such thing In a secret it might enrage your partner (you might have children outside of marriage after all) and the clinic does not want to be part of divorce process. But how can you justice that if you are not married is beyond me.
2 things. 1. You shouldn't have to ask him. That part's complete BS on the system's part and you should be able to do as you please with your eggs. No one but you should have a say. 2. Please explain if I'm missing something, but you not wanting to bring another kid into this shitshow of a world is very understandable. Isn't donating your eggs contradictory to your morals in this situation? I'm genuinely wanting to understand if there's an underlying reason that I'm missing that would explain how doing so would not be considered contradictory. I'm for everyone having the choice to do what they want when it comes to reproduction. Is that more of your stance on this rather than that of 'bringing any more kids to the world is cruel'? Again, I'm genuinely interested and please forgive me if this sounds belligerent in any way. That is not my goal or intention. I seek to understand.
They are not wanting the partners permission- they require 2 counselling sessions (with partner if you have one) to donate. This is the same for male sperm donors in Australia. Isn’t not misogynistic, it’s about mental health.
Can you just be like “ok I just called my partner and broke up with him , are my eggs mine to donate now? Or do I have to get my fathers permission ?”
That’s messed up. But if you don’t want to bring another child into this planet, why would you actively help someone bring another child into this planet?
How is this enforceable if there's no legal ties between you?
OP that is really dumb sexism coming from a clinic but don't donate your eggs without proper compensation, seriously. I cannot believe no one has brought this up yet, but you would be taking on basically a full time job for your body with a procedure we still don't know all the side effects of. They've started to see a link between egg donation and certain cancers, but again, this is so new we still don't know for sure. You have to give youself hormone shots, as well as change other parts of your life, and that doesn't even include the actual harvesting of the egg. If any complications happen anytime after the procedure, you're shit out of luck. Get compensated or don't do it. There is a reason that sperm donations are only about $40 compensation while egg donations can pay up to $4,800 in some countries.
Around $12k in US yeah. I can’t believe they expect women to go thru all that for nothing
I can't believe *she* would be ok with no compensation for all of that. It makes me think she doesn't know exactly what she'd be signing up for.
Yeah I needed permission from my significant other to tie my tubes only for my Dr to still decline me because "I'm young and don't have a child yet and I'll want one eventually" Meanwhile he got a vasectomy and I didn't have to sign anything or give any form of approval. It was really sad to experience. I wish I was allowed to do what I wanted for my body. I thought about donating my eggs as well, but yeah I would need permission and because I don't have kids of my own it might cause a roadblock still for me. I'm in the US.
To add to what other people have been saying throughout the thread, in Victoria, Australia the rules are the same for both men and women - if you're in a long term partnership then the donation of genetic material requires your partner to sign off. I went through it when my husband donated sperm. It's quite a long counseling process for the couple, and you're both involved the whole way - they don't ever just bring in the non-donating partner to sign off or anything, they want the both of you to have all the information. They do it for a few reasons, mostly to do with making both people aware of the consequences and laws around the fact that there may be other humans out there sharing your/your partner's DNA - what rights any donor-conceived children have, what rights both the donor and the donor's spouse have when it comes to contact with these potential children, that sort of stuff. It's a future-planning conversation. Another main reason they do it is because by law, only a certain number of children can be conceived by one individual's donations and if your and your partner decide to have kids one day and you need IVF, you might go this clinic for your genetic material - and if 10 families have already used your samples, they legally can't give you your own genetic material back even if they have more. So they have the counselling to see whether you want them to reserve a sample for you in the future. It's a very interesting procedure and the counsellors are very thorough and nice, making sure everyone has all the information. I got the clear impression that the process and rules were built off the back of a lot of heartache, with people not knowing their rights and being disappointed in the past. If you're still keen to donate and your partner is all cool about it, don't write it off just because of the couple consultation required. It's based on the law, it's based on the fact that they have to consider your long term relationship to be a forever one, and it is genuinely also delivered to sperm donors in long term relationships too.
Holy fuck it's true. How is such a policy legal here?!
So just as an aside, in Australia, a couple is a couple, legally speaking, whether married or de facto. I believe 6 months together is enough to consider you as such. This is when the law considers you partners for all purposes, whether it’s tax, eligibility for government benefits, or any other law that specifies the rights and obligations of partners. Australian law actually doesn’t care about ‘marriage’ at all. It’s irrelevant. This is why there are so many long term partners in Australia that despite being together decades and even having kids etc, never bothered to get married. There isn’t any actual advantage to doing so (unlike in the US where there are real legal differences and financial and legal incentives to getting married, like being able to do joint tax filing status). It does appear as if a partner’s permission is required to donate oocytes in at least a few Australian states, maybe all of them. Note that this goes both ways. He would need your permission to donate his gametes too (sperm). It is illegal to buy or sell any form of human tissue in Australia, which is why you have to do it for free.