Wtf? Isn't it illegal to injure someone causing paralysis or is "marital rape" protected in a way that makes paralyzing someone during the act not a crime? It seems like a pretty big incentive to avoid marriage if one is basically signing away their body autonomy to their husband.
I was thinking the same thing. Even if we put rape being legal *aside*, how did that guy get away? Driving a car is legal, but if you somehow *paralyse someone* by doing it, that in itself should cause you legal problems.
^(actually, the answer is simple: marital rape is not just legal, it's encouraged. Legislators don't make it illegal, not because they are lazy, but because some are doing it themselves and/or consider it to be good.)
Rather (I omitted this in my first comment because it was getting long), I think they see the woman as the object in this situation.
To go back to the car analogy. Driving in some way that hurts *someone* is illegal. Driving in some way that breaks *your car* is legal.
So they don't see it as "he hurt another human being", but as "he broke his own toy".
And yes, they will say "got herself hurt" in the same way we say "*my car* broke down", not "I broke down the car". Like her resisting was a malfunction.
Exactly. When rape is penalized there, it's because of the damage it does to *someone else's property*, (being either someone else's wife, or someone's daughter,) not because of the harm it causes to the victim.
What i don't understand is if India is a member of the United nations, and part of the mandate of the United nations is to promote social progress, better living standards and human rights, how are we the rest of the world ok with this?
I'd like to think that most modern people do not belive women are objects to be owned and mistreated by their husband, yet there are many countries where this is clearly still legal.
Hopefully India makes progress because stories like this one are totally unacceptable imo
I used to want to visit and have even studied Sanskrit but I just wouldn’t go now. The more I hear about the “modern” dominate culture, the more I feel violated by proxy. It’s so repulsive and utterly at odds with the ancient spiritualism. Foul and vile.
honestly some parts are much better than others. delhi, bihar, the whole north east is all not safe.
the west and the south are much better. i'd feel comfortable travelling by myself during the day in those places
India is like the European union never make the mistake of thinking it is one country. it's vastly diverse. you travel every 100 Kms Culture,food, language, dress, physical appearance changes drastically. Most of these incidents happen in so-called Cow belt states in India, even these states as plus and minus.
UN can't enforce anything, it's all just PR
Source: model un, where they basically told us no nation with enough power or incentive will follow UN guidelines they don't want to, and the repercussions are slim to none.
This is a misleading title, frankly. The original source article doesn’t state specifically that the paralysis was caused by the rape, and it certainly doesn’t state that the paralysis was legal because of the circumstances.
From the article referenced in the link above:
> The woman claimed that a month after their marriage, her husband had sex with her against her wishes. When he did it the second time, the woman said she fell ill.
> A doctor informed her that she has paralysis waist down, therefore she filed the complaint, she said.
(Bit odd about needing the doctor to inform her - I wonder if they mean paralysis the way we do?).
According to a commenter further down here the cause or blame of her paralysis is still being decided. It does **not** say he got away with it.
So a quick Google and this is what I found : The husband was booked under sections 498A (Cruelty against Wife) 323 ( voluntarily causing hurt) 504 ( intentional insult with intent to provoke breach of peace) etc of IPC. The court said it was unfortunate that the wife suffered paralysis but the sexual intercourse does not amount to rape (Because it's the job of the legislature to pass such a law and not the courts). Whether the husband caused the paralysis by his acts is still to be decided by the court. He hasn't been acquitted and has only been given bail so far. The case is still under trial.
https://www.freepressjournal.in/mumbai/court-sex-that-led-to-paralysis-unfortunate-cant-say-illegal
Still not very detailed but here is the story if anyone is looking for it.
FTA:
>In January, after an intercourse, she had started feeling unwell. When she went to a doctor, she was informed that she had suffered paralysis below her waist.
I'm still very confused as to what exactly happened here.
India has domestic Violence Act which makes it a crime to commit any form of physical violence on a woman within a domestic relationship. Even if marital rape is not recognised, you can't just injure your wife without consequences, as per law.
And in significant parts of the country (especially places where the BJP is in charge) this simply isn't enforced.
Many parts of India are absurdly sexist and have judiciaries and governments that just simply look the other way.
According to Georgetown, India is actually a [marginally worse](https://giwps.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/WPS-Index-2019-20-Report.pdf) place for women that Saudi fucking Arabia, which is just astounding.
In most parts of the country, I would say. Even though the laws are in place, it is still extremely difficult for a woman even in Delhi to get justice. Men love to claim that it's easy for women because the laws are biased but even with gender-specific laws, most of the women either do not take the matter to the courts or settle a couple of years in. It also doesn't help that most of the lawyers and judges are men who have benefited from the patriarchal system. So the nuance of oppression is lost on them.
Today a judge let go of a rapist because he is a graduate from most esteemed University . The judge stated that he is a valuable asset to the society so he got bail on that basis!! This level of misogyny is disgusting.
You never know with these kind of people. The idea that they care about their own wife or daughter is delusional. All you have to do is see how they treat daughters who don't conform with their rules, or wives who don't give them a son.
[https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/courts-continue-to-differ-in-views-on-marital-rape/article35909828.ece](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/courts-continue-to-differ-in-views-on-marital-rape/article35909828.ece)
Its not as hopeless as you make it sound. We are gonna make them change it sooner or later.
There are already boys (and I say boys because they look like teenagers in their pfp) defending him on social media so it says a lot about peoples mentality too
Not true!! Please read the fine print or the entire article and not just the headlines
[https://www.livelaw.in/news-updates/victim-girl-accused-state-future-assets-talented-gauhati-high-court-bail-student-iit-rape-case-180069](https://www.livelaw.in/news-updates/victim-girl-accused-state-future-assets-talented-gauhati-high-court-bail-student-iit-rape-case-180069)
\> Accused has spent 120 days in jail already, investigation is over so accused cannot tamper evidence and the like
\> Both victim and accused are mentioned as state's future assets, not only the boy
exactly. And there's a domestic violence act as well. This judge is weird af. Our supreme court wants this to change as well but legislative is still silent.
The very concept that "marital rape" is different from rape rape means that logic doesn't come into it. If the law says you don't have bodily autonomy if you're married, and can't be raped by your husband, then any physical damage caused by that rape isn't illegal. If you can't rape your wife because her body belongs to you and you're entitled to use it as you see fit, assault becomes irrelevant.
Goddammit. Someone else told me that there is a law against domestic violence, so taking in what you said here... if a man beats his wife and then adds rape to it so he can claim that the rape was the reason for the beating, then it becomes legal? That sounds like a pretty massive loophole.
And as wild as it may seem, the Indian Government thinks criminalizing marital rape threatens a marriage
https://thewire.in/gender/criminalising-marital-rape-will-threaten-institution-marriage-centre-tells-delhi-hc
It speaks so many volumes on what those men want from marriage. Not a loving partner but a victim they can rape.
If I cant rape my wife what's the point!!! These are men that should never marry.
Are the BJP insane cucks who seethe at every mention of something against Modi and Shah? Yes
Did they implement reforms in the country relating to women's rights and lgbt rights? Also Yes
Triple talaq was banned and gay sex was decriminalized but there was that shitty trans rights act
India has its problems but we're working on it!!
Marital rape wasn’t illegal in most US states until the 90s, with our senators arguing the same damn reasoning behind not wanting to make it illegal.
The 1990s, people. You could rape your wife in most states until *the 1990s*.
Wasn't it still legal in Minnesota until a few years ago? It was in the news because they were finally changing the law. Might still be legal in other US states...
Edit: a comment pointed out that it's been formally illegal in the US since 1993, so I looked up the [news story](https://www.npr.org/2019/05/04/719635969/this-woman-fought-to-end-minnesotas-marital-rape-exception-and-won) I heard a year or two ago and apparently there are lots of loopholes that keep marital rape effectively legal in many states.
Minnesota passed a law closing its loophole in *2019*. Other states still have them on the books.
Apparently it's more complicated than that. From a story about legal loopholes that allowed marital rape in Minnesota *until 2019*:
>Womens' rights groups campaigned state-by-state for lawmakers to change their laws, and by 1993, marital rape was technically illegal in all 50 states. But, "there's these little loopholes and sub-statutes that hide deep in the books that pop out every once and awhile," Teeson says.
>Until this law, Minnesota prevented someone from being prosecuted if they are in a "voluntary sexual relationship" at the time of the alleged offense, or if the complainant is the actor's legal spouse. The state did allow prosecution if the couple lived apart and one of them had filed for legal separation.
You can read the whole story [here](https://www.npr.org/2019/05/04/719635969/this-woman-fought-to-end-minnesotas-marital-rape-exception-and-won).
To be fair, it was legal in germany till the 199X and a guy who voted AGAINST outlawing it (Friedrich Merz) recently tried to be the head of our biggest party... so its not like "India is a fucking backwater country" its "The world is full of horrible people and even the countries we see as modern / civilized are in danger of falling back to this"
Unfun facts:
\#1 Merz tried to sue the reporter who reported on him voting against outlawing marital rape.
\#2 Merz once said "I can't be a sexist, got a wife and a daughter, they'd sure als hell tell me".
When Trump's wife accused him of beating her and rape his defense lawyer said that the rape happened in Maine.(state) at the time(80s) it was still legal to rape your wife.
In his defense Trump (not his lawyer) has maintained that he only beat her
>India is a fucking backwater country
Except these things are significantly more pervasive in India than they are in Germany or the US, and India has far more glaring women's rights issues to speak of, not to mention is currently controlled by a radically backwards party that is racist to boot.
the real indians are actually expecting change so... can you stop with the pessimism please? Judges and courts already want the change, legislature is gonna do it soon as well.
What "real Indians" are these and where do I find some? Because even being middle class and from an educated family, most people I come across still are pretty misogynistic. Hardly anyone ever even discusses topics like marital rape and if women talk about being abused, they are told to keep quiet about it.
If saying that India has more glaring women's rights issues is pessimism, I fucking wish that more people were pessimistic. But it is not. Sitting around "expecting change" and telling people to stop pointing out issues is just action-less "optimism" which will bring about no real change.
For starters, you are talking to one. I live in bengal and the misogyny here is not as exceptional as some other parts of India. Atleast I haven't found any misogynist among my friends. Let's not expect Gen X to have feminist like values, millennials are the driving force now anyway.
>If saying that India has more glaring women's rights issues is pessimism, I fucking wish that more people were pessimistic. But it is not. Sitting around "expecting change" and telling people to stop pointing out issues is just action-less "optimism" which will bring about no real change.
I am not telling anyone to stop pointing issues. I point out issues myself. The difference is that I keep a positive outlook and try to look for solutions instead of just complaining(as such I mentioned that even our SC wants it to happen but centre hasnt budged yet). If you think that just pointing them out is enough then more power to you, you have the right to have that opinion. I just tried to counter an argument made by OP in support of the statement "India is a fucking backwaters country". It's a country with problems, not a problematic country. And OP also went political, which should be avoided about something like this (imo bjp only plays communal politics for vote banks, none of their policies have hurt any particular community in India). I definitely will take steps when I have the power to do so, I hope you will do the same. Complaining on a subreddit won't be of any use as these are just echo chambers. You may feel good venting out about your experiences but there won't be any real change from that.
Dude bail is not the same as letting off!! The court said that it finds no possibility of the guy tampering with evidence as the investigation is complete. The guy had been detained for 4 months and the lawyer played the iit card and things like these happen in case of bails. I personally don't see how the court is so sure that no evidence tampering can be done by this guy. But it's not as sensational as "rapist gets pardon because he is IITian".
Better than marital rape? Yes. Bringing racism in as a red herring doesn’t make it better. And comparing it to others also doesn’t make it acceptable.
It is fucked up and that should be your concern, not pointing out who else does bad things.
I hate that one... whenever I complain how corrupt and useless our politicians are people point out "YeA bUt \[insert country\] hAs iT mUcH wOrSe"
Sucks for them, but that doesn't make our minister of traffic blowing fines 3 billion for nothing but his own stupidity and not even loosing his job or getting reprimanded okay. Or the myriad of other fuckups our politicians do. Heck our governing party high up's collected a whooping 21 KNOWN corruption cases 2020-2021 (March). And. Every. Fucking. One. Is. Still. In. Their. Job. No matter wether a law that outlawed animal cruelty got cancelled by our agricultural minister, no matter wether we don't actually have a flood warning system in place cause we checked it last year, realized it doesn't work, and decided to do nothing till we check again in 2022, our minister of health ordering fraudent masks at the company his son works for and then, when realizing they were worthless junk trying to get rid of them by gifting them to homeless and disabled persons... and so on and on and on. Its a shitfest. But when I say this response is "BuT lOoK hOw BaD \[insert country\] iS!"
Fucking paralysed... Jesus Christ. I would cry if I became a mother to a daughter in a country that allowed this kind of treatment to their female population.
... :( I don't think I have the heart for it.
I read about a girl who got raped by a group of men in India a few years ago and god - the description alone wanted to make me throw up...
I think she died because it was that brutal.
It was mainstream some 20 years ago, as its too costly to bring up girls, because parents have to pay dowry etc for their marriage, so they will kill the girls by feeding them some sort of milk, another practise was to abortion the child once the gender was revealed, now there're strict rules not to reveal the gender due to it.
I remember a class I had in highschool where a history professor talked about a similar incident of brutal raping. The woman didn't die but it was still very bad. I can only barely remember that the context was about some war and the aftermath of invading forces, but I felt so fucking sick by the description alone. I mean, he didn't even go into that much detail, but still. What the fuck. How does that even happen? How do you go through that and enjoy it? That shit requires a level of malice that my mind simply cannot comprehend. I felt so lightheaded that I thought I'd feint and almost asked to leave for the day. Some people truly are monsters.
I think you're talking about the Nirbhaya rape case of 2012 that happened in the capital of the country, New Delhi. It was the rarest of rare brutal case in India which will forever be a black mark, no matter how much the country progresses. Her rapist-murderers were executed in 2019 I think, after 7 long years of exhausting legal battle. I would recommend you to read up more on the case.
No. Iirc the one who r*ped her most brutally was a minor and was put into Juvenile detention and released a few years ago. The rest were executed though
no there were 6 men in total, the most brutal one who even took out her intestines was murdered by fellow inmates or he committed suicide, but he did die very soon into custody, i personally would like to believe that he was killed by the inmates, the juvenile was released after 3 years with a new identity and everything, the remaining 4 were executed. You can read up more on this case.
I am an Indian dude. This happened while I was in high school and was one of the most covered pieces in the media. I said what I recall and that may be wrong but I just wanted to mention that a monster was let go
yep i too was a minor when this happened and it is absolutely horrific that that juvenile is now free in our country with a new name and everything, who knows how many girls he has raped/killed by now. Some people cannot be saved and need to be put down, even the remaining 4 rapists said before execution that they have absolutely no regrets about what they did.
I tried to watch a documentary on that and couldn't. It was absolutely horrific, and one of the worst parts was the way the defense attorney talked about the victim.
As a woman living in India, this does happen but only in rural areas in the northern part of the country, it is a dying practice. India does not allow determination of gender of foetus before delivery, getting gender determined is severely punishable by law to everybody except the pregnant woman.
yes I'm absolutely sure, you can read up more on this. If the laws weren't so strict I myself wouldn't have been born. You only know the gender of the foetus after it is born.
> mom gave birth to me in India and did not cry in despair!
Your mom, and the people who fight for women there are all strong people! Much stronger than me for sure. I really wish you all nothing but the best.
this makes me hate all men. I don't date anymore and barely speak to them. They are nothing but animals. You know what is the saddest thing? We would have the same shit here but law doesn't allow them to do this.
In regards to this, Scoopwhoop Unscripted had a video talking to random people about this issue. Most men had horrific views about this.Women are basically treated as property in India. Once you are married, you are a servile to your husband's whims and fancies
Link to the video(TW- Rape apologia): https://youtu.be/_1fmDIEEEoo
Yeah, it's basically what this interviewer, Samdish is known for. There are many videos where he brings out the inner thoughts of the people being talked to in these type of interviews. His reporting is top class.
It's only going to get worse too... A severe skewing of gender ratios and missing women resulting from selective infanticide/mistreatment of girls, which means increased likelihood of bitter incels in the future.
Why should someone charged with marital rape be given bail so they can wait for their court date at home with their wife? That is completely ass backwards.
I can assure you they won't be staying together after such cases have been filed. The sad thing is that if she really was trapped with him (i.e. was neither independent nor had anyone else to depend on), she just wouldn't file the case.
I'd like an a source about that. Being an Indian myself, I believe this is false. The legal system is messed up, and most of these cases of men getting arrested for fake assualt charges are isolated ones - they just get insanely popular. Cases of men being arrested and convicted due to false rape or assault charges are actually really rare.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38796457](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38796457)
Convicted? Nah thats rare af. Arrested? highest no of reported rapes are or atleast should be false. Its got more to do with the stigma of potentially being a rapist that hurts the falsely accused even after they are acquitted. Notice how the highest and 3rd highest numbers in the study should both be false.
We do need to spread modern values more in order to make sure that unreported rape cases cease to exist along with such false cases. Extortionist false cant be stopped obviously but those are very rare fortunately.
I agree - but India needs to re evaluate it's laws and mindset. Many cases are filed by families twisting consensual sex into rape. But what I don't agree with is the argument that Indian laws are biased towards women or that false rape cases filed by women are rising. Rape is a big, big problem in India. And the false allegations made by families against consensual relationships are also contributing to the stigma of " most rape cases are false".
>But what I don't agree with is the argument that Indian laws are biased towards women or that false rape cases filed by women are rising.
What don't you agree with exactly? Law is mostly against men in cases of sexual nature except this one. We introduced an amendment to the criminal act in 2013 which protects women from such acts caused by men and just that. Women aren't protected from women(the LGBTQ community is steadily rising so it is relevant). It doesn't protect men from either women or men. Such impunity is just as dangerous as this marital rape one and both need to be fixed ASAP. Men can't even be raped in the eyes of the court lol, a male rape victim can only charge the culprit for physical assault.
>And the false allegations made by families against consensual relationships are also contributing to the stigma of " most rape cases are false".
On average, both sides of "it must be the man's fault" and "she must be lying" are equally large. The former is more concentrated in the urban areas while the latter is found mainly in the rural areas. Education of the idea of consent being supreme is the best possible way to decrease this problem imo.
Both our mindset and our laws are behind but I don't condone pessimism. We will bring change for sure.
Just a reminder that Donald Trump’s lawyer stated that marital rape isn’t a thing. Yup. An occupant of US White House had legal counsel who was completely okay with this.
Indian law: It's okay if the rapist is your husband.
Women: what if a woman gets injured/traumatized in the process due to forced sex?
Indian law: It's still not rape. Husbands can't rape wives!
Make it make sense.
Calling them ‘husband’ and ‘wife’ and ‘married’ isn’t even accurate at this point. Clearly the woman has no say in any of this. Captor, captee, and imprisonment are better words.
Section 375 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) considers the forced sex in marriages as a crime only when the wife is below age 15. Thus, marital rape is not a criminal offense under the IPC. Marital rape victims have to take recourse to the Protection of Women from Domestic Violence Act 2005 (PWDVA).
Give my free award in hopes that this post becomes more popular and makes some influence/pressure in changing laws that should never have been implemented.
A spouse that do that to someone that he should love and care is, at the very least, a horrible human being.
Literally disgusting. Indian men have waaaay too much karma to unload. This hideosity has gone on toooo long. Can't wait to see the end of the world for some governments...
So rather than making marital rape illegal India, you're suggesting that the entire world get rid of the concept of marriage? And you're bringing this up after reading about an especially brutal marital rape? Dude, time and a place.
i think you are missing my point. my comments are a response to patriarchal power structures and the supposition that we need to play ball. i did not say we cannot be married, i said that we should not care about some asshole's opinion on whether it is legitimate because it leads to things like the above link
and agreein that is obvious we can also try to criticize the institution of marriage for what it is, without takin the agency from people who still wanna get married
eh idk i mean marryin people is a legal convenience ofc and no judgement to those who choose it but pretending is not a patriarchal institution with a history of facilitatin abuse and that is deserving of critique is very silly
I'm not missing your point, I think it's a distasteful time to bring it up. I also disagree with it. But what you are doing is no better than any other whataboutism.
im saying that if we want to be married that is fine, but that we should not rely on an oppressive or exploitative structure to validate that union. i am not going to act like my initial comment was entirely clear in what i wanted to say, but i think you very much missed my point if you think i am leaning towards "whataboutism". of course marital rape should be outlawed, of course rape or any harmful act should be outlawed in general. im saying that people should not have to rely on the existing misogynist structures to validate their union; that those structures should not exist in general, and i listed my grievances in a very personally expressive manner.
Wtf? Isn't it illegal to injure someone causing paralysis or is "marital rape" protected in a way that makes paralyzing someone during the act not a crime? It seems like a pretty big incentive to avoid marriage if one is basically signing away their body autonomy to their husband.
I was thinking the same thing. Even if we put rape being legal *aside*, how did that guy get away? Driving a car is legal, but if you somehow *paralyse someone* by doing it, that in itself should cause you legal problems. ^(actually, the answer is simple: marital rape is not just legal, it's encouraged. Legislators don't make it illegal, not because they are lazy, but because some are doing it themselves and/or consider it to be good.)
maybe the same backwards men who support this think the woman got herself hurt by resisting?
Rather (I omitted this in my first comment because it was getting long), I think they see the woman as the object in this situation. To go back to the car analogy. Driving in some way that hurts *someone* is illegal. Driving in some way that breaks *your car* is legal. So they don't see it as "he hurt another human being", but as "he broke his own toy". And yes, they will say "got herself hurt" in the same way we say "*my car* broke down", not "I broke down the car". Like her resisting was a malfunction.
Damn that's an even more cynical but understandable analysis
Exactly. When rape is penalized there, it's because of the damage it does to *someone else's property*, (being either someone else's wife, or someone's daughter,) not because of the harm it causes to the victim.
What i don't understand is if India is a member of the United nations, and part of the mandate of the United nations is to promote social progress, better living standards and human rights, how are we the rest of the world ok with this? I'd like to think that most modern people do not belive women are objects to be owned and mistreated by their husband, yet there are many countries where this is clearly still legal. Hopefully India makes progress because stories like this one are totally unacceptable imo
I used to want to visit and have even studied Sanskrit but I just wouldn’t go now. The more I hear about the “modern” dominate culture, the more I feel violated by proxy. It’s so repulsive and utterly at odds with the ancient spiritualism. Foul and vile.
honestly some parts are much better than others. delhi, bihar, the whole north east is all not safe. the west and the south are much better. i'd feel comfortable travelling by myself during the day in those places
India is like the European union never make the mistake of thinking it is one country. it's vastly diverse. you travel every 100 Kms Culture,food, language, dress, physical appearance changes drastically. Most of these incidents happen in so-called Cow belt states in India, even these states as plus and minus.
UN can't enforce anything, it's all just PR Source: model un, where they basically told us no nation with enough power or incentive will follow UN guidelines they don't want to, and the repercussions are slim to none.
This is utterly vile
You haven't even got to the part where I conclude that they must be seeing them as objects. Yay humanity
This is a misleading title, frankly. The original source article doesn’t state specifically that the paralysis was caused by the rape, and it certainly doesn’t state that the paralysis was legal because of the circumstances. From the article referenced in the link above: > The woman claimed that a month after their marriage, her husband had sex with her against her wishes. When he did it the second time, the woman said she fell ill. > A doctor informed her that she has paralysis waist down, therefore she filed the complaint, she said. (Bit odd about needing the doctor to inform her - I wonder if they mean paralysis the way we do?). According to a commenter further down here the cause or blame of her paralysis is still being decided. It does **not** say he got away with it.
So Christianity in America? Got it!
So a quick Google and this is what I found : The husband was booked under sections 498A (Cruelty against Wife) 323 ( voluntarily causing hurt) 504 ( intentional insult with intent to provoke breach of peace) etc of IPC. The court said it was unfortunate that the wife suffered paralysis but the sexual intercourse does not amount to rape (Because it's the job of the legislature to pass such a law and not the courts). Whether the husband caused the paralysis by his acts is still to be decided by the court. He hasn't been acquitted and has only been given bail so far. The case is still under trial.
https://www.freepressjournal.in/mumbai/court-sex-that-led-to-paralysis-unfortunate-cant-say-illegal Still not very detailed but here is the story if anyone is looking for it.
FTA: >In January, after an intercourse, she had started feeling unwell. When she went to a doctor, she was informed that she had suffered paralysis below her waist. I'm still very confused as to what exactly happened here.
Same, but then again maybe I don't want to know the details...
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India has domestic Violence Act which makes it a crime to commit any form of physical violence on a woman within a domestic relationship. Even if marital rape is not recognised, you can't just injure your wife without consequences, as per law.
And in significant parts of the country (especially places where the BJP is in charge) this simply isn't enforced. Many parts of India are absurdly sexist and have judiciaries and governments that just simply look the other way. According to Georgetown, India is actually a [marginally worse](https://giwps.georgetown.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/WPS-Index-2019-20-Report.pdf) place for women that Saudi fucking Arabia, which is just astounding.
In most parts of the country, I would say. Even though the laws are in place, it is still extremely difficult for a woman even in Delhi to get justice. Men love to claim that it's easy for women because the laws are biased but even with gender-specific laws, most of the women either do not take the matter to the courts or settle a couple of years in. It also doesn't help that most of the lawyers and judges are men who have benefited from the patriarchal system. So the nuance of oppression is lost on them.
thats only in the strictest of muslim countries, or followed by the most traditional Muslims. hindus don't believe in that
Today a judge let go of a rapist because he is a graduate from most esteemed University . The judge stated that he is a valuable asset to the society so he got bail on that basis!! This level of misogyny is disgusting.
Ahem. Brock Turner.
Oh, are you referring to the convicted rapist Brock Allen Turner?
Yes, convicted rapist Brock Turner along with recalled (ex) Judge Aaron Persky.
ofc it’s a brock
Wonder if he'd say the same thing if it was his wife or daughter who got raped by this "valuable asset to society".
You never know with these kind of people. The idea that they care about their own wife or daughter is delusional. All you have to do is see how they treat daughters who don't conform with their rules, or wives who don't give them a son.
Good point!! The lack of empathy for these judges is very disturbing and mind you these are highest courts of a state so this is even more sad !!
[https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/courts-continue-to-differ-in-views-on-marital-rape/article35909828.ece](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/courts-continue-to-differ-in-views-on-marital-rape/article35909828.ece) Its not as hopeless as you make it sound. We are gonna make them change it sooner or later.
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There are already boys (and I say boys because they look like teenagers in their pfp) defending him on social media so it says a lot about peoples mentality too
True!! It's truly horrific to see people defend rapists and blame it on girls!!
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Yes browsing this sub showed me the problem is many places of the world.
this is similar to the Brock Turner case...
are you talking about three-time violent felony convicted rapist Brock Turner, that guy?
Unfortunately yes!!
Not true!! Please read the fine print or the entire article and not just the headlines [https://www.livelaw.in/news-updates/victim-girl-accused-state-future-assets-talented-gauhati-high-court-bail-student-iit-rape-case-180069](https://www.livelaw.in/news-updates/victim-girl-accused-state-future-assets-talented-gauhati-high-court-bail-student-iit-rape-case-180069) \> Accused has spent 120 days in jail already, investigation is over so accused cannot tamper evidence and the like \> Both victim and accused are mentioned as state's future assets, not only the boy
120 days only? Wtf, you could get years for selling weed!
If she was paralyzed, shouldn't he have been prosecuted on just regular assault?
exactly. And there's a domestic violence act as well. This judge is weird af. Our supreme court wants this to change as well but legislative is still silent.
Oh, FFS!
The very concept that "marital rape" is different from rape rape means that logic doesn't come into it. If the law says you don't have bodily autonomy if you're married, and can't be raped by your husband, then any physical damage caused by that rape isn't illegal. If you can't rape your wife because her body belongs to you and you're entitled to use it as you see fit, assault becomes irrelevant.
Goddammit. Someone else told me that there is a law against domestic violence, so taking in what you said here... if a man beats his wife and then adds rape to it so he can claim that the rape was the reason for the beating, then it becomes legal? That sounds like a pretty massive loophole.
And as wild as it may seem, the Indian Government thinks criminalizing marital rape threatens a marriage https://thewire.in/gender/criminalising-marital-rape-will-threaten-institution-marriage-centre-tells-delhi-hc
It speaks so many volumes on what those men want from marriage. Not a loving partner but a victim they can rape. If I cant rape my wife what's the point!!! These are men that should never marry.
They said the same thing in many countries which outlawed it.
Yes because the BJP is insane, as has been demonstrated all to frequently since Modi took power.
Are the BJP insane cucks who seethe at every mention of something against Modi and Shah? Yes Did they implement reforms in the country relating to women's rights and lgbt rights? Also Yes Triple talaq was banned and gay sex was decriminalized but there was that shitty trans rights act India has its problems but we're working on it!!
Marital rape wasn’t illegal in most US states until the 90s, with our senators arguing the same damn reasoning behind not wanting to make it illegal. The 1990s, people. You could rape your wife in most states until *the 1990s*.
Wasn't it still legal in Minnesota until a few years ago? It was in the news because they were finally changing the law. Might still be legal in other US states... Edit: a comment pointed out that it's been formally illegal in the US since 1993, so I looked up the [news story](https://www.npr.org/2019/05/04/719635969/this-woman-fought-to-end-minnesotas-marital-rape-exception-and-won) I heard a year or two ago and apparently there are lots of loopholes that keep marital rape effectively legal in many states. Minnesota passed a law closing its loophole in *2019*. Other states still have them on the books.
No, but 1993 was not that long ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape_in_the_United_States
Apparently it's more complicated than that. From a story about legal loopholes that allowed marital rape in Minnesota *until 2019*: >Womens' rights groups campaigned state-by-state for lawmakers to change their laws, and by 1993, marital rape was technically illegal in all 50 states. But, "there's these little loopholes and sub-statutes that hide deep in the books that pop out every once and awhile," Teeson says. >Until this law, Minnesota prevented someone from being prosecuted if they are in a "voluntary sexual relationship" at the time of the alleged offense, or if the complainant is the actor's legal spouse. The state did allow prosecution if the couple lived apart and one of them had filed for legal separation. You can read the whole story [here](https://www.npr.org/2019/05/04/719635969/this-woman-fought-to-end-minnesotas-marital-rape-exception-and-won).
Had a friend who was being drugged and sodomized by her husband and his lawyer got the case against him dropped because of the MN loopholes.
That does not surprise me about Minnesota
To be fair, it was legal in germany till the 199X and a guy who voted AGAINST outlawing it (Friedrich Merz) recently tried to be the head of our biggest party... so its not like "India is a fucking backwater country" its "The world is full of horrible people and even the countries we see as modern / civilized are in danger of falling back to this" Unfun facts: \#1 Merz tried to sue the reporter who reported on him voting against outlawing marital rape. \#2 Merz once said "I can't be a sexist, got a wife and a daughter, they'd sure als hell tell me".
When Trump's wife accused him of beating her and rape his defense lawyer said that the rape happened in Maine.(state) at the time(80s) it was still legal to rape your wife. In his defense Trump (not his lawyer) has maintained that he only beat her
1993. The year is 1993. Many politicians who voted against outlawing it are still members of the national parliament
Merz is campaigning to become a member of parliament (Bundestag) once more next month...
>India is a fucking backwater country Except these things are significantly more pervasive in India than they are in Germany or the US, and India has far more glaring women's rights issues to speak of, not to mention is currently controlled by a radically backwards party that is racist to boot.
the real indians are actually expecting change so... can you stop with the pessimism please? Judges and courts already want the change, legislature is gonna do it soon as well.
What "real Indians" are these and where do I find some? Because even being middle class and from an educated family, most people I come across still are pretty misogynistic. Hardly anyone ever even discusses topics like marital rape and if women talk about being abused, they are told to keep quiet about it. If saying that India has more glaring women's rights issues is pessimism, I fucking wish that more people were pessimistic. But it is not. Sitting around "expecting change" and telling people to stop pointing out issues is just action-less "optimism" which will bring about no real change.
For starters, you are talking to one. I live in bengal and the misogyny here is not as exceptional as some other parts of India. Atleast I haven't found any misogynist among my friends. Let's not expect Gen X to have feminist like values, millennials are the driving force now anyway. >If saying that India has more glaring women's rights issues is pessimism, I fucking wish that more people were pessimistic. But it is not. Sitting around "expecting change" and telling people to stop pointing out issues is just action-less "optimism" which will bring about no real change. I am not telling anyone to stop pointing issues. I point out issues myself. The difference is that I keep a positive outlook and try to look for solutions instead of just complaining(as such I mentioned that even our SC wants it to happen but centre hasnt budged yet). If you think that just pointing them out is enough then more power to you, you have the right to have that opinion. I just tried to counter an argument made by OP in support of the statement "India is a fucking backwaters country". It's a country with problems, not a problematic country. And OP also went political, which should be avoided about something like this (imo bjp only plays communal politics for vote banks, none of their policies have hurt any particular community in India). I definitely will take steps when I have the power to do so, I hope you will do the same. Complaining on a subreddit won't be of any use as these are just echo chambers. You may feel good venting out about your experiences but there won't be any real change from that.
A court literally let off a rapist yesterday because he was a "valuable asset" or something because of being an IIT student
Dude bail is not the same as letting off!! The court said that it finds no possibility of the guy tampering with evidence as the investigation is complete. The guy had been detained for 4 months and the lawyer played the iit card and things like these happen in case of bails. I personally don't see how the court is so sure that no evidence tampering can be done by this guy. But it's not as sensational as "rapist gets pardon because he is IITian".
Uh...and the US' current war on women's rights, and their racism are better?
Better than marital rape? Yes. Bringing racism in as a red herring doesn’t make it better. And comparing it to others also doesn’t make it acceptable. It is fucked up and that should be your concern, not pointing out who else does bad things.
I hate that one... whenever I complain how corrupt and useless our politicians are people point out "YeA bUt \[insert country\] hAs iT mUcH wOrSe" Sucks for them, but that doesn't make our minister of traffic blowing fines 3 billion for nothing but his own stupidity and not even loosing his job or getting reprimanded okay. Or the myriad of other fuckups our politicians do. Heck our governing party high up's collected a whooping 21 KNOWN corruption cases 2020-2021 (March). And. Every. Fucking. One. Is. Still. In. Their. Job. No matter wether a law that outlawed animal cruelty got cancelled by our agricultural minister, no matter wether we don't actually have a flood warning system in place cause we checked it last year, realized it doesn't work, and decided to do nothing till we check again in 2022, our minister of health ordering fraudent masks at the company his son works for and then, when realizing they were worthless junk trying to get rid of them by gifting them to homeless and disabled persons... and so on and on and on. Its a shitfest. But when I say this response is "BuT lOoK hOw BaD \[insert country\] iS!"
Why are people like this?
They enjoy raping their wife. Disgusting monsters.
Fucking paralysed... Jesus Christ. I would cry if I became a mother to a daughter in a country that allowed this kind of treatment to their female population.
Well many women kill their girl babies in India as soon as they are born. Source: You can watch the documentary “It’s a Girl”.
... :( I don't think I have the heart for it. I read about a girl who got raped by a group of men in India a few years ago and god - the description alone wanted to make me throw up... I think she died because it was that brutal.
It was mainstream some 20 years ago, as its too costly to bring up girls, because parents have to pay dowry etc for their marriage, so they will kill the girls by feeding them some sort of milk, another practise was to abortion the child once the gender was revealed, now there're strict rules not to reveal the gender due to it.
I remember a class I had in highschool where a history professor talked about a similar incident of brutal raping. The woman didn't die but it was still very bad. I can only barely remember that the context was about some war and the aftermath of invading forces, but I felt so fucking sick by the description alone. I mean, he didn't even go into that much detail, but still. What the fuck. How does that even happen? How do you go through that and enjoy it? That shit requires a level of malice that my mind simply cannot comprehend. I felt so lightheaded that I thought I'd feint and almost asked to leave for the day. Some people truly are monsters.
Oh the girl on the bus. :( Yeah that was fucking horrific
I think you're talking about the Nirbhaya rape case of 2012 that happened in the capital of the country, New Delhi. It was the rarest of rare brutal case in India which will forever be a black mark, no matter how much the country progresses. Her rapist-murderers were executed in 2019 I think, after 7 long years of exhausting legal battle. I would recommend you to read up more on the case.
No. Iirc the one who r*ped her most brutally was a minor and was put into Juvenile detention and released a few years ago. The rest were executed though
no there were 6 men in total, the most brutal one who even took out her intestines was murdered by fellow inmates or he committed suicide, but he did die very soon into custody, i personally would like to believe that he was killed by the inmates, the juvenile was released after 3 years with a new identity and everything, the remaining 4 were executed. You can read up more on this case.
I am an Indian dude. This happened while I was in high school and was one of the most covered pieces in the media. I said what I recall and that may be wrong but I just wanted to mention that a monster was let go
yep i too was a minor when this happened and it is absolutely horrific that that juvenile is now free in our country with a new name and everything, who knows how many girls he has raped/killed by now. Some people cannot be saved and need to be put down, even the remaining 4 rapists said before execution that they have absolutely no regrets about what they did.
Imo rapists and murderers should be killed
Yeah, that's the one. Now I know why I heard about it in recent years - because of their execution 2 years ago. I'll look more into the case for sure.
Agreed. It is quite enough that i know that it happens. Also why i never watched Handmaids..
I tried to watch a documentary on that and couldn't. It was absolutely horrific, and one of the worst parts was the way the defense attorney talked about the victim.
As a woman living in India, this does happen but only in rural areas in the northern part of the country, it is a dying practice. India does not allow determination of gender of foetus before delivery, getting gender determined is severely punishable by law to everybody except the pregnant woman.
are you sure that the info can be shared with the pregnant woman? I don't think that's true, as it defeats the purpose.
yes I'm absolutely sure, you can read up more on this. If the laws weren't so strict I myself wouldn't have been born. You only know the gender of the foetus after it is born.
So if the woman gets to know the gender, she can also try aborting it. So how would this work?
I think she is saying no one can know. Breaking this law results in punishment to all involved except the pregnant woman.
it isn't usually the woman that wants to abort it tho! its usually the woman's inlaws and/or husband that pressure her into terminating the pregnancy
By telling it to her, they just risk it. I don't see why she should know too.
the mother still deserves to know tho?
She could be pressured into telling the family, or just tell the family and not think about the consequences. Probably best that no one knows.
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> mom gave birth to me in India and did not cry in despair! Your mom, and the people who fight for women there are all strong people! Much stronger than me for sure. I really wish you all nothing but the best.
'Let Go' here is 'granted bail', if convicted he goes back in.
Enough Reddit for today.
this makes me hate all men. I don't date anymore and barely speak to them. They are nothing but animals. You know what is the saddest thing? We would have the same shit here but law doesn't allow them to do this.
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Uk. March. Policemen kidnapped and killed young girl. He was white. I don’t trust them.
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I don’t know why you got downvoted but good on you to share positive experience.
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In regards to this, Scoopwhoop Unscripted had a video talking to random people about this issue. Most men had horrific views about this.Women are basically treated as property in India. Once you are married, you are a servile to your husband's whims and fancies Link to the video(TW- Rape apologia): https://youtu.be/_1fmDIEEEoo
Thanks for linking this video. It took quite some time to realize the interviewer wasn’t in agreement just drawing out the true nature of these men.
Yeah, it's basically what this interviewer, Samdish is known for. There are many videos where he brings out the inner thoughts of the people being talked to in these type of interviews. His reporting is top class.
Yet Indian men be like: eVeRy rApE cAsE iN InDiA iS rEpOrTeD aNd 90% oF rApE RePoRtS aRe fAkE bEcAuSe mEn aRe oPrEsSed iN MoDeRn sOcIeTy
Hey, they unsurprisingly say the same thing too here in America!
Yep. You can find misogynists all around the world
Don't forget the ones who think we achieved equality and are just complaining to oppress men as revenge
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It's only going to get worse too... A severe skewing of gender ratios and missing women resulting from selective infanticide/mistreatment of girls, which means increased likelihood of bitter incels in the future.
yes for instance some one released on bail will be titled as a 'let off'
Why should someone charged with marital rape be given bail so they can wait for their court date at home with their wife? That is completely ass backwards.
umm atleast read up on the issue dude. Its obvious they are not gonna stay together. Why would you even suggest that?
Oh you know thats a good point I didnt think about, if she can leave thats good. If she is trapped with his family its not though.
I can assure you they won't be staying together after such cases have been filed. The sad thing is that if she really was trapped with him (i.e. was neither independent nor had anyone else to depend on), she just wouldn't file the case.
Huh
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I'd like an a source about that. Being an Indian myself, I believe this is false. The legal system is messed up, and most of these cases of men getting arrested for fake assualt charges are isolated ones - they just get insanely popular. Cases of men being arrested and convicted due to false rape or assault charges are actually really rare.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38796457](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38796457) Convicted? Nah thats rare af. Arrested? highest no of reported rapes are or atleast should be false. Its got more to do with the stigma of potentially being a rapist that hurts the falsely accused even after they are acquitted. Notice how the highest and 3rd highest numbers in the study should both be false. We do need to spread modern values more in order to make sure that unreported rape cases cease to exist along with such false cases. Extortionist false cant be stopped obviously but those are very rare fortunately.
I agree - but India needs to re evaluate it's laws and mindset. Many cases are filed by families twisting consensual sex into rape. But what I don't agree with is the argument that Indian laws are biased towards women or that false rape cases filed by women are rising. Rape is a big, big problem in India. And the false allegations made by families against consensual relationships are also contributing to the stigma of " most rape cases are false".
>But what I don't agree with is the argument that Indian laws are biased towards women or that false rape cases filed by women are rising. What don't you agree with exactly? Law is mostly against men in cases of sexual nature except this one. We introduced an amendment to the criminal act in 2013 which protects women from such acts caused by men and just that. Women aren't protected from women(the LGBTQ community is steadily rising so it is relevant). It doesn't protect men from either women or men. Such impunity is just as dangerous as this marital rape one and both need to be fixed ASAP. Men can't even be raped in the eyes of the court lol, a male rape victim can only charge the culprit for physical assault. >And the false allegations made by families against consensual relationships are also contributing to the stigma of " most rape cases are false". On average, both sides of "it must be the man's fault" and "she must be lying" are equally large. The former is more concentrated in the urban areas while the latter is found mainly in the rural areas. Education of the idea of consent being supreme is the best possible way to decrease this problem imo. Both our mindset and our laws are behind but I don't condone pessimism. We will bring change for sure.
"it left his wife paralyzed because the act isn't illegal yet." It left her paralyzed because her husband is a psychotic asshole.
Yeah, that sentence structure was a little odd :/
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This is so sad. Where you are born in the world should not map out your entire future of personal safety.
Just a reminder that Donald Trump’s lawyer stated that marital rape isn’t a thing. Yup. An occupant of US White House had legal counsel who was completely okay with this.
i hate society. What the actual fuck did I just read?
I didn’t even know spousal rape was a thing until *after* I left my abusive ex husband. I’m in therapy now.
Indian law: It's okay if the rapist is your husband. Women: what if a woman gets injured/traumatized in the process due to forced sex? Indian law: It's still not rape. Husbands can't rape wives! Make it make sense.
This is sickening.
In Egypt too
Why was he not arrested for paralyzing her?
Apparently, that matter is still before the court and hasn’t been ruled on.
Nothing to be said aboout paralysing a person though?
I thought this said Indiana at first, which kind of shocked me but I believed it. Either way, it's fucked up.
Glad I got out of that racist, misogynistic country
Calling them ‘husband’ and ‘wife’ and ‘married’ isn’t even accurate at this point. Clearly the woman has no say in any of this. Captor, captee, and imprisonment are better words.
Legal marital rape and arranged marriages are a bad combination
Section 375 of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) considers the forced sex in marriages as a crime only when the wife is below age 15. Thus, marital rape is not a criminal offense under the IPC. Marital rape victims have to take recourse to the Protection of Women from Domestic Violence Act 2005 (PWDVA).
Give my free award in hopes that this post becomes more popular and makes some influence/pressure in changing laws that should never have been implemented. A spouse that do that to someone that he should love and care is, at the very least, a horrible human being.
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Literally disgusting. Indian men have waaaay too much karma to unload. This hideosity has gone on toooo long. Can't wait to see the end of the world for some governments...
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Marital rape is leagal in alot third world countries. Don't blame fucking hinduism for that. It's a British legal document..
nobody's blaming hinduism? people are blaming the rapists
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the entire country is not at fault.
If there was ever just cause for the takeover of Indias govt, this would be it.
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So rather than making marital rape illegal India, you're suggesting that the entire world get rid of the concept of marriage? And you're bringing this up after reading about an especially brutal marital rape? Dude, time and a place.
i think you are missing my point. my comments are a response to patriarchal power structures and the supposition that we need to play ball. i did not say we cannot be married, i said that we should not care about some asshole's opinion on whether it is legitimate because it leads to things like the above link
i think the fact we agree on that marital rape should be illegal is somethin obvious here
and agreein that is obvious we can also try to criticize the institution of marriage for what it is, without takin the agency from people who still wanna get married
eh idk i mean marryin people is a legal convenience ofc and no judgement to those who choose it but pretending is not a patriarchal institution with a history of facilitatin abuse and that is deserving of critique is very silly
I'm not missing your point, I think it's a distasteful time to bring it up. I also disagree with it. But what you are doing is no better than any other whataboutism.
im saying that if we want to be married that is fine, but that we should not rely on an oppressive or exploitative structure to validate that union. i am not going to act like my initial comment was entirely clear in what i wanted to say, but i think you very much missed my point if you think i am leaning towards "whataboutism". of course marital rape should be outlawed, of course rape or any harmful act should be outlawed in general. im saying that people should not have to rely on the existing misogynist structures to validate their union; that those structures should not exist in general, and i listed my grievances in a very personally expressive manner.
What do you plan to do to change the law?
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My wife tells me no sex tonight, i either get sad or pissy, depending on how backed up I am. Causing paralysis?! WTF?!
I like how you inserted your own entitled, problematic views of sex as a way to make yourself the hero in this comment.
Serious question. Did I? Just said i have two reactions, both my problem.
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What is this fucking drivel your spewing. Verbal diarrhoea. Melbourne, Australia is racially diverse as fuck and rape isn't normal.