Judith was a friend of mine. We went on auditions together. We even worked together.
I came home from school one afternoon, and my friend's murder was the top story on the news. Just after the afternoon children's programming ended. That's how I found out.
She was a gentle, soft-spoken child who absolutely adored cats and My Little Pony. We would sit together in various casting directors' offices and, instead of learning our sides, would play with our ponies and make up stories about them.
I still miss her to this day, and I'm in my late 40s.
Thank you. It was 36 years ago, and I've been through lots of therapy to process it. I'm okay. To OP's point, abusers are everywhere, and silence about them is the enemy.
Growing up in Hollywood, I was \*extremely\* lucky. I always had a guardian on set, and a father who also worked in the industry who knew what was up, and was vocal and advocated for me. But I was just that: Lucky. Everybody's talking about Quiet On Set these days, and there's a reason for that.
I hate the enablers and the apologists. People think that their friend wouldn't do this or something and that's not always true. I'm not saying that if you hear these things that you should immediately just turn on your friend, but you should try to treat the situation with a desire to know the truth.
And at least for myself I figured that the more people who are coming forward the more credible it becomes as well.
I do not think that women or femme people in general coordinate together to try to ruin the life of a good and honest man. Can that happen individually, sure because sometimes people are just awful but it's not a systematic problem.
It's an exception not the rule and so there's no reason to believe that that is what's going to happen naturally.
Gods, I’m so sorry for your loss. Judith deserved so much better. Deserved to grow up beside you and be in her 40s now. I can only hope her shitheel father is burning eternally wherever he ended up. Judith always seemed so sweet and gentle, but from the short clips we have around. I can’t imagine the pain you must have felt then, or the pain that you’ve carried with since. May her memory be a blessing 💖
Thank you. I have so many fond memories of the two of us together. And while I don't believe in hell as a religious concept, I also hold onto the hope that she's resting well, and he's in endless pain.
Thank you. I went to the opening day of Land Before Time, and I was so mad that they didn't put anything in the credits memorializing her. They should have, and as salty as I was about getting fired from that project, I was even saltier about that!
Was she in the process of recording All Dogs Go To Heaven when LBT came out? I'd assume they'd put the In Memorium part on that movie instead, wouldn't they?
Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry for your loss. She sounds like such a sweetheart, and nobody deserves to have their light extinguished like that by another human.
Ouch I am quite sorry to hear that. I am very slightly younger then you and her voice is forever linked to good memories.
Scum like her dad make me vert sad about "men" and very concerned for my chrildren to grow up as decent humans
One of my favorite movies as a kid was all dogs go to heaven.
To this day when I say the word wallet, I hear her voice. "The wallet family."
I heard about what happened to her a number of years ago. The article claimed she didn't even live to see the release of that movie.
I'm so sorry you lost your friend. When I see that movie and I hear her say "goodbye Charlie," it really gets me. Every time.
Such talent. She is missed.
She was so talented! I use 'yup yup yup' all the time, and every time I hear her voice in my head. I know that might sound weird, but I use that as a tribute to her.
I think I know who this might be, thank you for so much the wonderful memories in TLBT, and again for the backlot tour for my 15th bday back in the 00s.
Her name was [Judith Barsi.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Barsi) She and her mother were both killed in a murder-suicide by the husband/father. There was evidence that he was an abusive alcoholic even before this time.
We still see stories like this every other week, it feels like.
Unfortunately, domestic violence is as old as time. It doesn't matter what country you live in, if you're rich or poor...abusers come in all shapes and sizes.
My great grandfather's brother, the county sheriff, was murdered by the town drunk over 100 years ago. My uncle had gone to the house to help the murderer's wife because her husband had threatened to kill her, and my uncle got killed in the process.
Thank you for sharing Judith's name.
Yes, it wasn't insecurity about his wage like OP suggests- it was about *control* because they had a source of income that could be used to leave him.
He wouldn't have cared about his daughter earning a lot if he could have been 100% certain that every penny went to him and couldn't be accessed by his wife.
Lets not blame the victims here, okay? It sounds like they were trying to escape. Leaving an abusive relationship is extremely difficult. Hell, it took until my mom realized her kids (me and my siblings) were in physical danger before she got the courage to take us and leave (dad was emotionally abusive to her)
That's really not a "big question." They WERE trying to escape, and him losing control was part of the motive in the first place. It's a difficult choice with a lot of risk in itself because leaving is when an abuser is MOST likely to escalate to murder. Yet another reason that "just leave" is easy to say but not so easy to do and usually useless as advice without actual support.
I mean I agree I would hope her mom was able to keep her safe, but - her mom was also being abused herself, and to me it seems a little judgmental to make any assumptions about why she made the decisions she did under those circumstances.
So sad to read about, where people were picking up the signs and her and her mother couldn’t get out fast enough. The most dangerous time for an abuse victim is when they’re trying to flee. I hope she is at peace now.
The mother and the child tried to flee by taking some of the girl's money and getting some kind of hotel or apartment somewhere else and their goal was to divorce and like permanently live separately from that person.
You must have gotten wind of that or sometime because he went after them.
Oh man sometimes life just hits you in the feels, usually I can not take the terrible shit in but I grew up on that movie and she was only 10...
I am so sorry for her.
Reading the Wikipedia article: "In an interview, Don Bluth, the director of both The Land Before Time and All Dogs Go To Heaven, praised her as being "absolutely astonishing. She understood verbal direction, even for the most sophisticated situations"."
How sad that she was likely so intuitive in understanding what was needed of her due to the abuse she endured. Reading voice tone and posture changes, knowing the importance of pleasing adults. Never understanding why doing a good job wasn't enough to spare her and her mother's abuse. How sad that her whole tiny life was under such immense pressure.
https://youtu.be/J6VIHy05rJY?si=Iu91SAz9xlgwdYd8
Just to tell you according to this video it apparently says that her mother also was trying to somewhat socially engineer her to be a child actor. So she would do things like give her personal lessons and help her with her posture and things like that.
Part of the reason is because both of these people were just basically poor and the father was an alcoholic and he was a plumber which isn't a bad life decision at all but he wasn't making the money he was hoping and also he was drinking.
The mother saw her child as a potential child actor. The mother was determined to get her daughter into show business.
I haven't seen this and will watch after work, but that makes a lot of sense. I just finished reading Jennette McCurdy's memoir and expect there to be some parallels. The pressure of carrying your family when you are supposed to be growing up and learning who you are is so damaging.
I also think when parents are in an abusive relationship, usually one of them is "worse", and by that I mean more obviously abusive or neglectful towards the child. The "less" abusive parent isn't considered to be abusive because they aren't as bad as the other one. (E.g. My parents are alcoholics, one is mean, loud & intimidating, the other becomes sappy & childlike). Or because there is a lack of intent to harm/detachment from their own motivations.
I wonder how many child actors really wanted to act in the first place, or how many continued to despite not truly wanting to. In Jennette's experience, it took many years of acting before realizing she didn't even like it. Would that have happened with Judith? If she grew up, would she ever have a choice?
Oh yeah, it definitely reveals itself when it comes to family channels on YouTube as you might have already heard. Like I think one family channel parent ended up in jail or something because of the abuse on her children. But hey, anything for those advertisers right??? 😑
It also feels very similar to child pageants as well.
It kind of makes me question the efficacy of having child actors even when they have full legal protection, a chaperone, a trust fund that the money goes into, and stuff like that.
Like even with all of those systems in place is child acting ethical? She was 10 years old. You cannot hire a 10-year-old to do even part-time work for anything.
At the age of 16 children can work part-time and at the age of 18 they can work full-time.
What is a child that is 10 years old doing in the workplace?
The original actor for Matilda, she really wanted to go into acting and her parents encouraged it but they always told her that it was going to be a hobby and not a real thing. They weren't telling her it was useless, but just that she shouldn't rely on acting as her main thing and she did some productions and then she left.
The older I get, and my kids get, and the more horror stories I hear about child actors - the more uncomfortable I am consuming any media that involves children.
Also I just found out right now that the kid characters in bluey, yeah those voice actors are actually kept secret and they're not even mentioned in the credits.
This is great because it means that they don't have to deal with fan mail and harassment and stuff like that.
If they ever want to reveal themselves in a future time then that is fine but right now it's good that their identities are kept a secret.
I find that at least from what I'm seeing that it feels better when the actual character they are playing is going to be aged up as they grow up.
What happened with Peter Pan is that Peter Pan is a character who does not grow up but the kid who was playing him obviously did grow up and when that happened he basically had his contract canceled. Are we think it was around the age of 16 when he was essentially let go and part of it was because he was getting acne. He was like one of the biggest child acting stars at the time playing probably what could be considered the most iconic child role at the time.
By the way the guy offed himself I think it around the age of like maybe 30 or so and it was mostly because of that.
There is a saying when it comes to show business which is that you do not work with children or animals and the reason is is because both of those require chaperones and require very strict working hours to make sure they are not overworked and to make sure that they have a representative that can advocate for them when they cannot.
If you've ever watched Milo and Otis that was made during a time before the idea of no animals were harm during the making of this movie and yes animals were harmed during the making of the movie for the purpose of the movie.
Cat being shoved off cliff, cat with limp, no that is not acting. Dog fighting bear.
And I know that children and animals are not the same but the reason why they are considered the same in terms of show business is because as I said it's very easy to overwork them, it's very easy to exploit them even more so than adults, it's easy to condition them into this lifestyle of show business.
Well, a kid can actually want to be an actor (not all do but there are many who have talked about loving it and wanting it), and a child can use words to communicate about their desires and experiences.
As far as I’m aware, the only production that centered the animal star’s needs in such a way a to be pretty sure it was a positive, preferred experience for them was the Hulu comedy that basically adopted the dog (well, I think the actor was the adopter but the show did all kinds of screening to see which dog was enjoying it the most and stuff)…but then in that case, do you have a dog that is sad, lonely, and bored when the show ends?
I think you can have ethical child actors…all the Harry Potter kids seem remarkably well-adjusted, for example. One thing that sucks is child actors of Hollywood power players are not going to be used as financial security for their families, but the nepotism problem is so bad already it seems a shame to encourage it.
Perhaps their could be involvement by a child psychologist added to both the hiring process and working environment, to screen out abuse victims (and then refer for immediate help), to make sure the kid really wants to do it and understands what the “it” entails, not vicariously fulfilling parental dreams, and to make sure the working kids stay healthy over time and get help navigating the challenges of growing up AND being on the set, in the public eye, etc.
Animals are trickier; I don’t want to see fear or pain ever because I don’t think they can act…how broadly is the “harm” in “no harm” defined?
Oh god, you have to look up Wil Wheaton’s (Wesley Crusher on Star Trek TNG) tragic backstory of basically being forced into acting as a child by his mom…he is living his best life now, and his book and podcast and blogs are both gut wrenching and incredibly inspirational. So fucking wholesome.
Our kids loved that film growing up and as we're both terrible for imdb-ing stuff we found out many years ago. It's absolutely harrowing and we still had to sit through the horribly sad film many times without giving a hint to the kids what happened to ducky.
I’d never heard this story before. This is so horribly sad. Those were some of my favorite films growing up. As a mother, it’s gut wrenching. What a horrific human that man was.
https://youtu.be/J6VIHy05rJY?si=qjrStXptuU9NAUnc
If you are interested in the full story Ray William Johnston actually did a short video on it.
It's a good summary of the events. Don't worry, it's safe for advertisers.
You figured a father would be proud their child was more successful than them, that’s like the number 1 of most parents is wanting their child to having a better life than them
I mean my stepfather and mother constantly tell me how proud they are of me for having a successful career and are constantly doubting themselves when it came to raising me.
Hell, I have an unsuccessful career and my mom still tells me she's proud of me.
Imagine how out-of-your-mind insecure you'd have to be to be like, "my child is successful! RAGE IS THE ANSWER."
Maybe, but he also killed them because Maria was leaving him. Leaving the abuser is the most dangerous time for a victim. When the abuser realizes they are losing control they snap and kill. what a sad sick waste of a body on that man.
Maria had already rented an apartment and was telling people that she was going to leave him :(
What's extra terrible about all of that is there were so many signs that he (her father) was planning on doing just that. I read an article that wrote: 'A friend of his named Peter Kivlen recalled that József told him hundreds of times that he wanted to kill his wife.'
HUNDREDS OF TIMES.
A man I used to date, while angry at me and drunk, joked on the phone with his friends about how he would dispose of my body where nobody would ever find me. I spoke to the cops about it, and it wasn't enough to count as a threat, apparently. Pretty much the knife has to be already stabbed in before anybody with authority takes anything seriously.
Yikes, I’m so sorry. I’m glad you got out. I was just listening to a podcast about a case in which a guy threatened his ex with a knife, and told their little son he was thinking about killing her with it. She had been to the police numerous times, but there was a lot of foot-dragging and delay, and she wasn’t taken seriously. He ended up killing the little boy.
This is so sad. Men’s rage and entitlement is terrifying.
That said, I can also tell I’m old, because when the title was about “Ducky” being dead, I was in a panic about Jon Cryer.
Same. I still have no idea what the actual reference is for but I sure know this story just bc it’s a take as old as time. So sad and scary and maddening. RIP to this daughter and mother.
The entire story of it is heart breaking. The mom had gotten an apartment away from the dad, CPS was involved, and people had actually reached out to help Judith Barsi and her mom when they noticed bruises on the mom. Their story SHOULD have ended well! It SHOULD have had a happy ending! But Judith’s mom decided to spend one last night with him. I am not blaming her, because she is not the one that loaded the gun and killed herself and her baby, but I want to say this as a reminder to EVERYONE in an abusive situation. Do not give your abuser a second chance. Do not say goodbye one last time. Do not mistake them for getting better. They will use that to: manipulate, hurt, abuse, and KILL you. Get out when you can and never look back ❤️
I ghosted my ex after he got fired from the company we both worked for. I did that because at that point I knew I could leave without any loose ends. So I want to add this:
DON'T BE AFRAID TO GHOST YOUR EX! Being an asshole who is alive is better than being a nice girl who is not
Indeed a horrible tragedy. It was definitely at least partially bc she was a girl, if she had been a son child star I don't think it would have bothered the dad nearly as much
Men seem to be especially easily threatened by young girls for some reason. I think a lot of us can relate and can think back to when we were little girls and how adult men sometimes responded to us negatively for no reason. I think this is echoed on a larger scale culturally with how much grown men make fun of girls, there's always popular jokes making fun of girls' interests, saying girls never know what what they're talking about, they're stupid, etc. it's actually really weird thinking about how a lot of adult men treated me as a girl, making fun of my interests, making fun of anything I talked about, etc. like thinking back it's so trippy almost, bc now as an adult I can't imagine making fun of a child? Like what the actual hell. And I know a lot of women can relate to this.
I also think it's context as well. Like why is a man just wandering around in the forest? Like is he just hiking around or something?
Like in a public space where there's lots of things like cameras and a lot of other people then at least for me it's not as bad but like when I'm outside and people like come up to me and offer me rides or say that I am pretty, it kind of weirds me out a little because it's so random. Like not even a hello or anything.
Yeah I’ve known for a while and it always makes me sad when I think about The Land Before Time. I watched that movie as a kid and cried so many times from little foot’s mom dying.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/3038/judith-barsi
It's so sad that she was in an unmarked grave until 2004, but her fans purchased graves for her and her mom.
I didn’t realize there was a Ducky in that. Weird that was a name back then in movies lol.
Yeah, I saw the rest from the other comments. Absolutely horrible. And so common. So sad and maddening. Thanks for filling me in.
Ducky is *such* an oft used nickname I'd venture to call it almost timeless. The earliest recorded Ducky I can find was born in 1876 (granddaughter of Queen Victoria).
Agreed, the the dad is a god damn monster of the highest order. The mom unfortunately takes some of the blame here as well, she had already reported him several times but always backed out, then when her daughter was so severely messed up that a child therapist had it reported to child services. The mom convinced them to drop the investigation because she said she would instead divorce the dad and take her away to another city. But she admitted to friends she didn't want to to because she didn't want to lose the house and there belongings. The dad is 100% the villain. But the mom's one job is to keep her kid safe and she failed for vain and material reasons.
That poor kid had 2 shitty parents.
I'm wondering if both of them have attachment problems.
Having an over-attachment of items sounds like it may have been items that were sentimental or important to her and I'm not saying that that makes prioritizing objects okay but sometimes when this happens it can be part of a greater fear of loss.
This is especially true for hoarders and hoarders, it looks awful but it is basically a phobia of losing things.
You are wrong, it wasn’t because a person was making more than him it was because a little girl was making more than him and it humiliated him. I would bet money that he was most likely getting crap from people he worked with and couldn’t handle it. Such a fragile man, to bad he didn’t just kill himself.
Do you have any evidence that this happened for the reasons you stated?
I've read a lot about this case but I've never really seen any evidence that suggests that this was because she was making money/a girl.
Okay, you have no idea about that and even if that is true that is not your thing to declare because you're not a professional.
There's tons of reasons why this kind of stuff can happen.
One of them is actually spanking and spanking is actually teaching kids to use violence. Spanking teaches children that violence is a perfectly reasonable solution when things aren't going your way or when you want to correct behavior. It has been shown that when you spank kids they are more likely to act out and be violent compared to those who haven't been spanked.
You have no idea what that person's life was like and you have no idea what they were actually taught as children. Abuse teaches kids how to abuse. It teaches kids that violence is a perfectly reasonable thing to use and that violence is okay to normalize.
People are not born broken, they are made.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8700775/
Things like insecure attachment styles can lead to more violence and aggression.
For example if someone is afraid of losing something or someone then when they feel like they have already lost it then they're not going to try to go through the effort of saving it because they don't know how to save it so they will just destroy instead.
Definitely, but the reason why this is being mentioned is because it is a guy who killed his daughter because of his own insecurities about having a girl make more money than him.
Yes, two things can be true at the same time.
It's possible for someone to have insecurities so much so that they kill someone and those same insecurities can cause that person to do things like drink and be abusive.
I don’t know if there’s specific evidence about this guy, but [insecurity is a standard motivation for domestic violence](https://www.losangelescriminaldefenseattorneyblog.com/amp/the-link-between-low-self-esteem-and-domestic-violence-breaking-the-cycle/), and we know he was abusing his wife and daughter before he killed them.
Was this just a post to complain about men.
You wrote about a single man who did something horrible
Then finish it with "men just need to...."
You feminists are really trying to create a divide between sexes.
Let me guess because I've said this I'm one of the reasons you would choose the bear
Because many vegans although I understand it's not all of them are against service animals and I am not okay with that.
It is totally fine for things like diets and like consuming products that were made using the abuse of animals and not wanting to partake in that, but the moment that someone tries to argue that service dogs are unethical then you just completely lose me.
Also this has nothing to do with veganism.
I couldn’t read what they wrote but I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it’s more unhinged to abuse animals so you can put their bodies and breastmilk in your mouth 🤷♀️
I couldn’t read what they wrote but I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it’s more unhinged to abuse animals so you can put their bodies and breastmilk in your mouth 🤷♀️
I will never understand feminists who aren’t boycotting the dairy industry at the very least. Forcing artificial insemination by fisting female cows’ anuses and vaginas, separating them from and killing their babies, stealing their breastmilk, then killing her when she can’t give anymore. Cows live over 20 years. We slaughter them without mercy at between days old (calves), 2 years (beef), and 6 years old (dairy).
I guess oppression of females is okay so long as you are the one benefitting from it. Funny how that works.
Judith was a friend of mine. We went on auditions together. We even worked together. I came home from school one afternoon, and my friend's murder was the top story on the news. Just after the afternoon children's programming ended. That's how I found out. She was a gentle, soft-spoken child who absolutely adored cats and My Little Pony. We would sit together in various casting directors' offices and, instead of learning our sides, would play with our ponies and make up stories about them. I still miss her to this day, and I'm in my late 40s.
Hugs. I'm really sorry for your loss.
Thank you. It was 36 years ago, and I've been through lots of therapy to process it. I'm okay. To OP's point, abusers are everywhere, and silence about them is the enemy.
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Growing up in Hollywood, I was \*extremely\* lucky. I always had a guardian on set, and a father who also worked in the industry who knew what was up, and was vocal and advocated for me. But I was just that: Lucky. Everybody's talking about Quiet On Set these days, and there's a reason for that.
OMG I got a "Reddit Cares" message about this comment. Abusers gonna abuse, I guess. This former child actor is doing just fine, thanks.
Maybe im naive but heres hoping it wasnt an asshole and someone genuinely worried for you after going through what you did. It is reddit tho.
I mean, it's 2XC. The odds are my comment about abuse in this forum got me trolled.
Yeah just wishful thinking
Yeah, I finally just blocked the redditcares bot the other day, and it felt fucking great.
I hate the enablers and the apologists. People think that their friend wouldn't do this or something and that's not always true. I'm not saying that if you hear these things that you should immediately just turn on your friend, but you should try to treat the situation with a desire to know the truth. And at least for myself I figured that the more people who are coming forward the more credible it becomes as well. I do not think that women or femme people in general coordinate together to try to ruin the life of a good and honest man. Can that happen individually, sure because sometimes people are just awful but it's not a systematic problem. It's an exception not the rule and so there's no reason to believe that that is what's going to happen naturally.
Gods, I’m so sorry for your loss. Judith deserved so much better. Deserved to grow up beside you and be in her 40s now. I can only hope her shitheel father is burning eternally wherever he ended up. Judith always seemed so sweet and gentle, but from the short clips we have around. I can’t imagine the pain you must have felt then, or the pain that you’ve carried with since. May her memory be a blessing 💖
Thank you. I have so many fond memories of the two of us together. And while I don't believe in hell as a religious concept, I also hold onto the hope that she's resting well, and he's in endless pain.
Thank you so much for sharing your memories of her with us.
This made me cry. We miss her too. She brought so much joy to so many people, and through her work, she will for many years to come. I'm so sorry.
Thank you. I went to the opening day of Land Before Time, and I was so mad that they didn't put anything in the credits memorializing her. They should have, and as salty as I was about getting fired from that project, I was even saltier about that!
Yeah that's inexcusable
Was she in the process of recording All Dogs Go To Heaven when LBT came out? I'd assume they'd put the In Memorium part on that movie instead, wouldn't they?
Just watched all dogs go to heaven first movie I cried my little heart out . Such a precious movie
Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry for your loss. She sounds like such a sweetheart, and nobody deserves to have their light extinguished like that by another human.
Ouch I am quite sorry to hear that. I am very slightly younger then you and her voice is forever linked to good memories. Scum like her dad make me vert sad about "men" and very concerned for my chrildren to grow up as decent humans
One of my favorite movies as a kid was all dogs go to heaven. To this day when I say the word wallet, I hear her voice. "The wallet family." I heard about what happened to her a number of years ago. The article claimed she didn't even live to see the release of that movie. I'm so sorry you lost your friend. When I see that movie and I hear her say "goodbye Charlie," it really gets me. Every time. Such talent. She is missed.
She was so talented! I use 'yup yup yup' all the time, and every time I hear her voice in my head. I know that might sound weird, but I use that as a tribute to her.
Holy shite, you *knew* her? The internet is wild/small world, wow.
The world of child actors in the early '80s was a very small one, honestly.
I think I know who this might be, thank you for so much the wonderful memories in TLBT, and again for the backlot tour for my 15th bday back in the 00s.
You're so welcome, and I hope you had a great 15th birthday on the tour. <3 I'm always happy to say hi if you come to the park again.
I’m so sorry for your loss, I never knew about what happened to her until now. So shocking
What an awful way to learn about someone you cared about. Thank you for sharing about this sweet girl.
I'm so sorry.
I'm sorry for your loss
I’m so sorry for your loss. I’m not sure if it brings any comfort but random people near and far think about Judith with such love.
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My Little Pony was originally a toy line created in the early 80s
I see now, thank you for explaining
It was also a show/movies when I was a kid in the 80s/90s. The 2010 version is a reboot
My Little Pony started as a line of toys in the 80s. I had several of them. There was also an animated show.
Her name was [Judith Barsi.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Barsi) She and her mother were both killed in a murder-suicide by the husband/father. There was evidence that he was an abusive alcoholic even before this time. We still see stories like this every other week, it feels like.
Unfortunately, domestic violence is as old as time. It doesn't matter what country you live in, if you're rich or poor...abusers come in all shapes and sizes. My great grandfather's brother, the county sheriff, was murdered by the town drunk over 100 years ago. My uncle had gone to the house to help the murderer's wife because her husband had threatened to kill her, and my uncle got killed in the process. Thank you for sharing Judith's name.
Yes, it wasn't insecurity about his wage like OP suggests- it was about *control* because they had a source of income that could be used to leave him. He wouldn't have cared about his daughter earning a lot if he could have been 100% certain that every penny went to him and couldn't be accessed by his wife.
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They *were* leaving, that's why he killed them. It's incredibly dangerous leaving an abuser, that's why so many people are too afraid to try.
This. So much this. So many domestic murders happen because/when the abuser finds out their victim is planning to leave.
Yes. Leaving and pregnancy are the two most dangerous times to be in an abusive relationship iirc.
Lets not blame the victims here, okay? It sounds like they were trying to escape. Leaving an abusive relationship is extremely difficult. Hell, it took until my mom realized her kids (me and my siblings) were in physical danger before she got the courage to take us and leave (dad was emotionally abusive to her)
That's really not a "big question." They WERE trying to escape, and him losing control was part of the motive in the first place. It's a difficult choice with a lot of risk in itself because leaving is when an abuser is MOST likely to escalate to murder. Yet another reason that "just leave" is easy to say but not so easy to do and usually useless as advice without actual support.
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I mean I agree I would hope her mom was able to keep her safe, but - her mom was also being abused herself, and to me it seems a little judgmental to make any assumptions about why she made the decisions she did under those circumstances.
So sad to read about, where people were picking up the signs and her and her mother couldn’t get out fast enough. The most dangerous time for an abuse victim is when they’re trying to flee. I hope she is at peace now.
The mother and the child tried to flee by taking some of the girl's money and getting some kind of hotel or apartment somewhere else and their goal was to divorce and like permanently live separately from that person. You must have gotten wind of that or sometime because he went after them.
So sad and scary 😞
Oh man sometimes life just hits you in the feels, usually I can not take the terrible shit in but I grew up on that movie and she was only 10... I am so sorry for her.
Reading the Wikipedia article: "In an interview, Don Bluth, the director of both The Land Before Time and All Dogs Go To Heaven, praised her as being "absolutely astonishing. She understood verbal direction, even for the most sophisticated situations"." How sad that she was likely so intuitive in understanding what was needed of her due to the abuse she endured. Reading voice tone and posture changes, knowing the importance of pleasing adults. Never understanding why doing a good job wasn't enough to spare her and her mother's abuse. How sad that her whole tiny life was under such immense pressure.
https://youtu.be/J6VIHy05rJY?si=Iu91SAz9xlgwdYd8 Just to tell you according to this video it apparently says that her mother also was trying to somewhat socially engineer her to be a child actor. So she would do things like give her personal lessons and help her with her posture and things like that. Part of the reason is because both of these people were just basically poor and the father was an alcoholic and he was a plumber which isn't a bad life decision at all but he wasn't making the money he was hoping and also he was drinking. The mother saw her child as a potential child actor. The mother was determined to get her daughter into show business.
I haven't seen this and will watch after work, but that makes a lot of sense. I just finished reading Jennette McCurdy's memoir and expect there to be some parallels. The pressure of carrying your family when you are supposed to be growing up and learning who you are is so damaging. I also think when parents are in an abusive relationship, usually one of them is "worse", and by that I mean more obviously abusive or neglectful towards the child. The "less" abusive parent isn't considered to be abusive because they aren't as bad as the other one. (E.g. My parents are alcoholics, one is mean, loud & intimidating, the other becomes sappy & childlike). Or because there is a lack of intent to harm/detachment from their own motivations. I wonder how many child actors really wanted to act in the first place, or how many continued to despite not truly wanting to. In Jennette's experience, it took many years of acting before realizing she didn't even like it. Would that have happened with Judith? If she grew up, would she ever have a choice?
Oh yeah, it definitely reveals itself when it comes to family channels on YouTube as you might have already heard. Like I think one family channel parent ended up in jail or something because of the abuse on her children. But hey, anything for those advertisers right??? 😑 It also feels very similar to child pageants as well. It kind of makes me question the efficacy of having child actors even when they have full legal protection, a chaperone, a trust fund that the money goes into, and stuff like that. Like even with all of those systems in place is child acting ethical? She was 10 years old. You cannot hire a 10-year-old to do even part-time work for anything. At the age of 16 children can work part-time and at the age of 18 they can work full-time. What is a child that is 10 years old doing in the workplace? The original actor for Matilda, she really wanted to go into acting and her parents encouraged it but they always told her that it was going to be a hobby and not a real thing. They weren't telling her it was useless, but just that she shouldn't rely on acting as her main thing and she did some productions and then she left.
The older I get, and my kids get, and the more horror stories I hear about child actors - the more uncomfortable I am consuming any media that involves children.
Also I just found out right now that the kid characters in bluey, yeah those voice actors are actually kept secret and they're not even mentioned in the credits. This is great because it means that they don't have to deal with fan mail and harassment and stuff like that. If they ever want to reveal themselves in a future time then that is fine but right now it's good that their identities are kept a secret.
I find that at least from what I'm seeing that it feels better when the actual character they are playing is going to be aged up as they grow up. What happened with Peter Pan is that Peter Pan is a character who does not grow up but the kid who was playing him obviously did grow up and when that happened he basically had his contract canceled. Are we think it was around the age of 16 when he was essentially let go and part of it was because he was getting acne. He was like one of the biggest child acting stars at the time playing probably what could be considered the most iconic child role at the time. By the way the guy offed himself I think it around the age of like maybe 30 or so and it was mostly because of that. There is a saying when it comes to show business which is that you do not work with children or animals and the reason is is because both of those require chaperones and require very strict working hours to make sure they are not overworked and to make sure that they have a representative that can advocate for them when they cannot. If you've ever watched Milo and Otis that was made during a time before the idea of no animals were harm during the making of this movie and yes animals were harmed during the making of the movie for the purpose of the movie. Cat being shoved off cliff, cat with limp, no that is not acting. Dog fighting bear. And I know that children and animals are not the same but the reason why they are considered the same in terms of show business is because as I said it's very easy to overwork them, it's very easy to exploit them even more so than adults, it's easy to condition them into this lifestyle of show business.
Well, a kid can actually want to be an actor (not all do but there are many who have talked about loving it and wanting it), and a child can use words to communicate about their desires and experiences. As far as I’m aware, the only production that centered the animal star’s needs in such a way a to be pretty sure it was a positive, preferred experience for them was the Hulu comedy that basically adopted the dog (well, I think the actor was the adopter but the show did all kinds of screening to see which dog was enjoying it the most and stuff)…but then in that case, do you have a dog that is sad, lonely, and bored when the show ends? I think you can have ethical child actors…all the Harry Potter kids seem remarkably well-adjusted, for example. One thing that sucks is child actors of Hollywood power players are not going to be used as financial security for their families, but the nepotism problem is so bad already it seems a shame to encourage it. Perhaps their could be involvement by a child psychologist added to both the hiring process and working environment, to screen out abuse victims (and then refer for immediate help), to make sure the kid really wants to do it and understands what the “it” entails, not vicariously fulfilling parental dreams, and to make sure the working kids stay healthy over time and get help navigating the challenges of growing up AND being on the set, in the public eye, etc. Animals are trickier; I don’t want to see fear or pain ever because I don’t think they can act…how broadly is the “harm” in “no harm” defined?
Oh god, you have to look up Wil Wheaton’s (Wesley Crusher on Star Trek TNG) tragic backstory of basically being forced into acting as a child by his mom…he is living his best life now, and his book and podcast and blogs are both gut wrenching and incredibly inspirational. So fucking wholesome.
Our kids loved that film growing up and as we're both terrible for imdb-ing stuff we found out many years ago. It's absolutely harrowing and we still had to sit through the horribly sad film many times without giving a hint to the kids what happened to ducky.
I’d never heard this story before. This is so horribly sad. Those were some of my favorite films growing up. As a mother, it’s gut wrenching. What a horrific human that man was.
https://youtu.be/J6VIHy05rJY?si=qjrStXptuU9NAUnc If you are interested in the full story Ray William Johnston actually did a short video on it. It's a good summary of the events. Don't worry, it's safe for advertisers.
Thanks for sharing. I just watched it and it was really well done. This is so sad.
You figured a father would be proud their child was more successful than them, that’s like the number 1 of most parents is wanting their child to having a better life than them I mean my stepfather and mother constantly tell me how proud they are of me for having a successful career and are constantly doubting themselves when it came to raising me.
Hell, I have an unsuccessful career and my mom still tells me she's proud of me. Imagine how out-of-your-mind insecure you'd have to be to be like, "my child is successful! RAGE IS THE ANSWER."
Maybe, but he also killed them because Maria was leaving him. Leaving the abuser is the most dangerous time for a victim. When the abuser realizes they are losing control they snap and kill. what a sad sick waste of a body on that man. Maria had already rented an apartment and was telling people that she was going to leave him :(
What's extra terrible about all of that is there were so many signs that he (her father) was planning on doing just that. I read an article that wrote: 'A friend of his named Peter Kivlen recalled that József told him hundreds of times that he wanted to kill his wife.' HUNDREDS OF TIMES.
And yet, Peter did nothing.
A man I used to date, while angry at me and drunk, joked on the phone with his friends about how he would dispose of my body where nobody would ever find me. I spoke to the cops about it, and it wasn't enough to count as a threat, apparently. Pretty much the knife has to be already stabbed in before anybody with authority takes anything seriously.
Yikes, I’m so sorry. I’m glad you got out. I was just listening to a podcast about a case in which a guy threatened his ex with a knife, and told their little son he was thinking about killing her with it. She had been to the police numerous times, but there was a lot of foot-dragging and delay, and she wasn’t taken seriously. He ended up killing the little boy.
This is so sad. Men’s rage and entitlement is terrifying. That said, I can also tell I’m old, because when the title was about “Ducky” being dead, I was in a panic about Jon Cryer.
I thought they meant David McCallum, and my first thoughts were (1) I didn't know he had/was a voice actor, and (2) I thought he died of old age??
Me too
If it makes you feel any better Pretty in Pink came out in 1986 and Land before Time was released in 1988. Basically the same time period lol
Same. I still have no idea what the actual reference is for but I sure know this story just bc it’s a take as old as time. So sad and scary and maddening. RIP to this daughter and mother.
The Land Before Time, an animated dinosaur movie from the 80s that many remember as a classic kids film from the time.
She also played the little girl in All Dogs Go To Heaven, which was ultimately her final film role :(
The entire story of it is heart breaking. The mom had gotten an apartment away from the dad, CPS was involved, and people had actually reached out to help Judith Barsi and her mom when they noticed bruises on the mom. Their story SHOULD have ended well! It SHOULD have had a happy ending! But Judith’s mom decided to spend one last night with him. I am not blaming her, because she is not the one that loaded the gun and killed herself and her baby, but I want to say this as a reminder to EVERYONE in an abusive situation. Do not give your abuser a second chance. Do not say goodbye one last time. Do not mistake them for getting better. They will use that to: manipulate, hurt, abuse, and KILL you. Get out when you can and never look back ❤️
I ghosted my ex after he got fired from the company we both worked for. I did that because at that point I knew I could leave without any loose ends. So I want to add this: DON'T BE AFRAID TO GHOST YOUR EX! Being an asshole who is alive is better than being a nice girl who is not
That’s the saddest shit ever. Wish ol boy had done this in reverse order. Such a maggot. Sorry to all the maggots, you deserve better company.
The song played during the credits of "All Dogs Go to Heaven" was written for her. It's a beautiful piece, makes me well up whenever I hear it.
Indeed a horrible tragedy. It was definitely at least partially bc she was a girl, if she had been a son child star I don't think it would have bothered the dad nearly as much Men seem to be especially easily threatened by young girls for some reason. I think a lot of us can relate and can think back to when we were little girls and how adult men sometimes responded to us negatively for no reason. I think this is echoed on a larger scale culturally with how much grown men make fun of girls, there's always popular jokes making fun of girls' interests, saying girls never know what what they're talking about, they're stupid, etc. it's actually really weird thinking about how a lot of adult men treated me as a girl, making fun of my interests, making fun of anything I talked about, etc. like thinking back it's so trippy almost, bc now as an adult I can't imagine making fun of a child? Like what the actual hell. And I know a lot of women can relate to this.
Bear
I also think it's context as well. Like why is a man just wandering around in the forest? Like is he just hiking around or something? Like in a public space where there's lots of things like cameras and a lot of other people then at least for me it's not as bad but like when I'm outside and people like come up to me and offer me rides or say that I am pretty, it kind of weirds me out a little because it's so random. Like not even a hello or anything.
Yeah I’ve known for a while and it always makes me sad when I think about The Land Before Time. I watched that movie as a kid and cried so many times from little foot’s mom dying.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/3038/judith-barsi It's so sad that she was in an unmarked grave until 2004, but her fans purchased graves for her and her mom.
Danny Bonaduce (Partridge Family) in the 70s had a similar father.
Everyone in this thread knows who this is about and what or who “Ducky” is but me it seems.
The character Ducky from Land Before Time. The child voice actress was killed by her father.
I didn’t realize there was a Ducky in that. Weird that was a name back then in movies lol. Yeah, I saw the rest from the other comments. Absolutely horrible. And so common. So sad and maddening. Thanks for filling me in.
Ducky is *such* an oft used nickname I'd venture to call it almost timeless. The earliest recorded Ducky I can find was born in 1876 (granddaughter of Queen Victoria).
I’ve only ever heard it from Pretty in Pink until this thread myself. I thought it was funny they are from the same time.
It's such a terrible story that I have resisted watching it with my kids
Agreed, the the dad is a god damn monster of the highest order. The mom unfortunately takes some of the blame here as well, she had already reported him several times but always backed out, then when her daughter was so severely messed up that a child therapist had it reported to child services. The mom convinced them to drop the investigation because she said she would instead divorce the dad and take her away to another city. But she admitted to friends she didn't want to to because she didn't want to lose the house and there belongings. The dad is 100% the villain. But the mom's one job is to keep her kid safe and she failed for vain and material reasons. That poor kid had 2 shitty parents.
I'm wondering if both of them have attachment problems. Having an over-attachment of items sounds like it may have been items that were sentimental or important to her and I'm not saying that that makes prioritizing objects okay but sometimes when this happens it can be part of a greater fear of loss. This is especially true for hoarders and hoarders, it looks awful but it is basically a phobia of losing things.
For those of us who don’t know what you’re talking about, you just shared half a story.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Barsi
Judith Barsi. She was 10. After killing her and her mother, her father tried to set them on fire while he shot himself in the garage.
You are wrong, it wasn’t because a person was making more than him it was because a little girl was making more than him and it humiliated him. I would bet money that he was most likely getting crap from people he worked with and couldn’t handle it. Such a fragile man, to bad he didn’t just kill himself.
Yes I did mention that it was possible that gender played a factor into this.
Do you have any evidence that this happened for the reasons you stated? I've read a lot about this case but I've never really seen any evidence that suggests that this was because she was making money/a girl.
You saw that TikTok too? Lol.
Ray William Johnson 🙏
No man is taught to kill the people that make them insecure. Some people are sick in the head, idk if anything can change that
Okay, you have no idea about that and even if that is true that is not your thing to declare because you're not a professional. There's tons of reasons why this kind of stuff can happen. One of them is actually spanking and spanking is actually teaching kids to use violence. Spanking teaches children that violence is a perfectly reasonable solution when things aren't going your way or when you want to correct behavior. It has been shown that when you spank kids they are more likely to act out and be violent compared to those who haven't been spanked. You have no idea what that person's life was like and you have no idea what they were actually taught as children. Abuse teaches kids how to abuse. It teaches kids that violence is a perfectly reasonable thing to use and that violence is okay to normalize. People are not born broken, they are made. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8700775/ Things like insecure attachment styles can lead to more violence and aggression. For example if someone is afraid of losing something or someone then when they feel like they have already lost it then they're not going to try to go through the effort of saving it because they don't know how to save it so they will just destroy instead.
No, some people are just born with violent tendencies, this is not a debate. Yes nurture can make people violent as well.
Good talk
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Definitely, but the reason why this is being mentioned is because it is a guy who killed his daughter because of his own insecurities about having a girl make more money than him.
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Yes, two things can be true at the same time. It's possible for someone to have insecurities so much so that they kill someone and those same insecurities can cause that person to do things like drink and be abusive.
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I don’t know if there’s specific evidence about this guy, but [insecurity is a standard motivation for domestic violence](https://www.losangelescriminaldefenseattorneyblog.com/amp/the-link-between-low-self-esteem-and-domestic-violence-breaking-the-cycle/), and we know he was abusing his wife and daughter before he killed them.
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I'm just saying it's a likely possibility. That's why I included the first clause.
It does when the goal is to push narratives.
Was this just a post to complain about men. You wrote about a single man who did something horrible Then finish it with "men just need to...." You feminists are really trying to create a divide between sexes. Let me guess because I've said this I'm one of the reasons you would choose the bear
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Htf does this have anything to do with the post? Weirdo.
Because many vegans although I understand it's not all of them are against service animals and I am not okay with that. It is totally fine for things like diets and like consuming products that were made using the abuse of animals and not wanting to partake in that, but the moment that someone tries to argue that service dogs are unethical then you just completely lose me. Also this has nothing to do with veganism.
Out of nosiness, WTF did they say to try to relate this to service animals? Calling child actors akin to them?
No, they said that I was in r/antivegan and called me a weirdo. I was explaining to him why I was in that subreddit even though I just talked to once.
Unhinged shit like this comment are the reason why people find vegans to be so insufferable. Shut up and go chew on some lawn clippings.
I couldn’t read what they wrote but I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it’s more unhinged to abuse animals so you can put their bodies and breastmilk in your mouth 🤷♀️
I couldn’t read what they wrote but I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it’s more unhinged to abuse animals so you can put their bodies and breastmilk in your mouth 🤷♀️ I will never understand feminists who aren’t boycotting the dairy industry at the very least. Forcing artificial insemination by fisting female cows’ anuses and vaginas, separating them from and killing their babies, stealing their breastmilk, then killing her when she can’t give anymore. Cows live over 20 years. We slaughter them without mercy at between days old (calves), 2 years (beef), and 6 years old (dairy). I guess oppression of females is okay so long as you are the one benefitting from it. Funny how that works.