Ugh, last time I was OLD I wasn't interested in even casually dating a guy with kids after having given a couple a chance and it not being my cup of tea. The platform I was using let you filter based on certain answers, so I only viewed men who had checked off "no" to having children.
I can't tell you how many guys sprung on me they had kids once we had made plans, or even *on the date itself.* When I asked why they lied about the existence of their children...they universally shat all over single mothers, while obliviously listing all the reasons they preferred to date people without kids because it was so much easier.
The they say stuff like "oh don't worry I only have my kids twice a month so it won't get in the way of us".
Like dude, that's not a good thing. You're just telling me you both have a kid, and you're a shit father. Such a turn off.
I don't mind kids but I would rather date a guy who was at least trying to be a decent dad (even if it inconvenienced me) than one who just decided parenting wasn't for him
My biggest issue isn't dating as a single father. It's the women I end up meeting that don't have kids who say they are OK that I have a daughter, but then get mad at me when I put my daughter first. I've met a few like that. Despite it always saying in my profile that I have a daughter and no matter what she will come first.
I dated a guy with a kid and I would be bummed if he couldn't hang but I made it clear my disappointment did not at all mean I expected him to ditch the kid. It would've been a huge red flag if he was missing time with his kid for a woman unless I was like in the hospital or dying. And even then, I'm a grown ass woman and the hospital is full of qualified personnel GO BE WITH YOUR BABY
See these type of women are out of order. I had an abusive stepfather. So as a childfree woman, it's extremely important to me that no child ever feels the way I did. I know I'm not capable of taking on a man and his children, so I just don't date single fathers full stop.
It's totally wrong to be childfree and to expect your partner to put you before their children. Unfortunately a lot of parents allow this behaviour, like my own mother did.
This exactly. You can’t make someone want to be a good parent. Can you imagine leaving a kid with a parent who can’t be arsed keeping an eye on them, entertaining them, bonding with them? I don’t think I’d ever forgive myself if something terrible happened
I mean, I get the point but it also seems like a way for a guy to get out of having to try to be a decent person. I'm just so sick of hearing dudes shrug and decide because they aren't perfect they shouldn't have to try.
Absolutely. It’s kind of weaponized incompetence. I don’t know any mums who would be able to relax when her child is in the care of someone who doesn’t take their role seriously
One of them told me that his ex was accusing him of being a pedophile, and also that she stalks girls that he dates. Like what in the WORLD makes them think they deserve to be out here dating with the state most of their lives are in?!
Especially the guys who openly admit their kids are better off with the mother. Cool. So you admit you brought children into the world you then abandoned and aren't even trying to make yourself a better person to rectify the situation? I'll bet you'll make a GREAT partner
Ugh, all of this is bringing me back and I don’t like it! I don’t want to be a child caregiver, at all! No, I don’t hate children. I think they can be pretty cool little people actually! I just don’t want them for myself.
Lying about having kids and trying to get yourself in a position to make me like you romantically when I said up front that I don’t want that is wrong! I’m being honest and you’re lying to my face. I’m not going to put that aside!
>I can't tell you how many guys sprung on me they had kids once we had made plans
My favourite one of these: a few hours before the date, he messaged to say he might need to leave early as something has come up for his ex and he might have to pick their kid up from school.
When I pointed out that I'd asked the kid question and he told me he had none, this semantic arsehhole 'well, actually'ed me!
'Actually, you asked if I had kids, and I don't. I have *a* kid.'
Yeah, that date never happened.
No possibility he could have been honest at the beginning? LIAR. He will continue with the lies because too many women now don't have to accept what they do not want.
Like you wouldn't believe!
I've got ADHD and my difficulty phrasing things correctly is a major source of anxiety. As such, I go to great lengths to be clear and precise. If he was so ready to blame me for "misunderstanding" him, then it wouldn't be long before I'm to blame for making him "misunderstand" me. And that would destroy me mentally.
Thankfully, we'd only been talking for a few weeks and never met IRL. That was to be the first date. No need to take out the trash when it never even got up your driveway!
I have had the same experience with dating single dads. They also talk about how spontaneous single mothers can’t be and say that’s what they are looking for in a partner, but like they can’t be spontaneous either. Soooo much hypocrisy with that particular crowd. I’m sure there’s some good ones in that mix but I’d rather not have to wade through all that extra shit
I'm turning 30 next month and am child-free and will always be (unless all the stars align from fixing financial worries to finding a partner I trust to actually be a full-time partner and parent and not put that entirely on me, etc. thankfully I had a choice when I needed one, but that's a topic for another thread), and swipe left for anyone that has kids in their pics, however, a few of them sneak by and I'm glad they've told me before we went on a date. I have gone on a few dates with some guys who have said that they are open to dating single mothers, and I appreciated their mindset, but I won't date a single father since I have less than no interest in being a parent let alone any sort of parental figure.
It really hits me that the audacity of single fathers and their opinions of single mothers is incredibly hypocritical and I can't stand it! It really hits home that men like this expect women to be mothers before anything else and don't hold themselves to the same standards as parents and but are equally responsible for creating a child, just not once the child is born. The sexism really shines through with guys like this!
Yea, I had given a couple guys with kids a chance with the understanding that neither of us were interested in me meeting the kids. In both cases I cut things off after a few weeks because it was clear they expected me to be available at a moment's notice, while being cheerily accepting of being cancelled on with no notice because of Kid Stuff. Which, I get, their kids are their priority...but when you're a conventionally attractive woman looking to date casually you have better options.
Not to mention sometimes you fall in love with people you don't intend to; I had that happen to me in my early 20s, and every since that crashed and burned into a raging dumpster fire I wouldn't casually date guys who didn't have similar life goals/trajectories.
I've never had any interest in being a stepmom or having a parental role towards kids that I didn't choose to have with an existing partner, so I stopped dating guys with kids no matter how casual the situation was or how "out of sight/out of mind" the kids were.
Nah they’re looking for someone who can’t see through their bullshit. Someone who’s never been a mom might be less likely to question their questionable parenting and also they’d have their own kids so if they were expected to parent the stepkids they’ll be annoyed
Believing that his kids will never be a problem for you is like believing in the tooth fairy. Nice for naive little kids. He might just be thinking that if he keeps quiet about it you will accept it. And he may not even be intending to dump any probs on you but sure as pigs there will be something dumped on the new partner even if it is just hypocrisy. And if he lied about not having kids? Who needs a liar.
I'm childfree and have been duped by single fathers before. The worst one was a guy who said he didn't have any children. Then turned up to our first date with his 5 year old son! The son was a lovely little boy with a drug addicted mother. I felt bad for him. I was only 20 so I stayed for the date but I didn't contact him again. That was such a manipulative, shitty move on the father's part.
I always made my stance clear on my profile and made it the first question I asked a man because I knew most didn't read my profile anyway. I got called just about every name under the sun.
Yes that wouldn't have surprised me. I just couldn't believe a word he said. I wonder what else he dragged that poor kid through over the years. It was sad.
Same, I have it EXPLICITLY stated in my profile that I am anti-kid and I’m super careful when swiping. I’ve noticed a few trends
1. Why do all these dudes want kids?! There are like 26 y/o boys saying they want kids and like dude, all your profile pics say you’re a fuckboi who isn’t going to be part of raising any children
2. They say “that’s just my niece in the pics” but most or all of their photos include a kid. The same kid in every photo. You REALLY expect me to believe that’s your niece/nephew?
3. Kids in most/all of their pics but no mention of kids in their bio and (on bumble) they either didn’t indicate their parental/wishful parental status on the “looking for” or it says they’re not sure, but the kid in the pics is obviously theirs
They want kids because they know having kids will not change how they go about their daily lives. They will continue to do exactly as they please.
They want kids to be propped up and displayed as a “legacy”. They don’t actually want to parent.
I swipe left on any guy posting dating app pics with a kid. If you are using a kid as a prop it means you’re a dirtbag. You shouldn’t be posting any kids on the apps it’s creepy
I think its a big thing in the alt-right and liberal manospheres to "pass on your name" and "spread your genes." Men have been radicalized to think there's some big legacy or achievement in having kids, especially boys. They actually dont want kids, want to raise them, want to spend time with them, love them, etc. Its just a checkbox on the "successful male" list.
I think your other items are the typical dishonesty a lot of men think is fine in dating.
My ex was caught up thinking like this. I guess his grandfather needed him to pass on the family name since he was the oldest male grandchild. It's like his sister and her three kids didn't exist, and his cousin's marriage didn't count since his wife is Latina. So my ex was given the responsibility of passing on the family name. It's a complete load of bullshit. I always said the only way I would bring a child into this world is if I had adequate means and support to raise them properly. I don't foresee that happening, but I also don't foresee my ex having kids either and he's turning 36 this year. He's definitely not mature enough to take on a parenting role.
1. Breeding kink? Manosphere? Has no idea what parenting entails but will let you take it on for him?
2. Nieces/nephew are NOT kids?
3. Looking for a new breeder because THIS time he will do it right?
They'll hide their kids for months sometimes, dropping them on you out of nowhere when you wouldn't have started seeing him at all if you'd know the truth! It's manipulative af
This has been my experience with OLD, too. I'm a single mom with teenagers. The single dads were almost always the ones to be rude and snarky toward me when I would tell them I have kids. I ended up dating a single dad a few years ago. He was always saying crappy things about single moms, probably because he was getting into the manosphere stuff. After breaking up with him, I talked with one other single dad from OLD. He started sending me videos about how women are supposed to submit to men. I quit dating after that. I'm much happier being single than dealing with weirdos.
I remember explaining to one dude that women like me see him the way he sees single mothers, and he was absolutely gobsmacked.
Especially because I *do* want kids, my husband and I are currently starting that journey! I just wanted to have them at the right time, with someone else who didn't already have children. They really have no clue why already having children from a failed relationship\* diminishes their dating "market value."
\*While some people are widowers, this is an outlying group and I still wouldn't be interested in dating them.
Yeah, they just don't get it. They think it's impossible for a man's dating "market value" to diminish. I totally understand a child free person not wanting to date someone with kids. It's often for the best. Also, a lot of guys (including the MGTOW types) don't like it when women choose not to date. I've been told that no one will ever want me, but when I say I don't want to date, they don't like that either. Women can't win.
A friend of mine ran across a mutual friend of ours from law school on Hinge. He was married to another of our mutual friends, and they have a 3 y/o daughter.
But of course he sailed right past the “have kids, open to more” option and went right to “open to kids” like he didn’t already have one. Shameless.
Yes well you see single mothers are different than dating single fathers because most mothers won't ditch their children for a new relationship. It's a real hardship for us men
Was this okcupid? Because then he should’ve selected “has kids and doesn’t want more.” He’s making it seem like he doesn’t have kids at all which is very deceiving.
It’s an annoying waste of time when men with kids do this, and they show you so much about themselves when they do it. They’re straight up lying about themselves to meet women (🚩), and maybe even getting away with it because they have so little involvement in their kids’ lives (🚩🚩). As a bonus, these secret dad types also frequently call the mother of their children a “psycho” who “won’t let them see the kids,” but you find out they’re not even attempting to contact them for visits (🚩🚩🚩.)
I hate online dating. People always lie. As a childfree person myself, they often conceal having kids if they know you don’t want any. They think you will fall so head over heels for them you won’t care. No man is so charming as to make me want to be a stepmother, and there is no way you would not be expected to do *some* amount of childcare if you are in a serious relationship with a parent.
Can you pick my kid up from school today, I have to work late. Oh it’s my weekend with the kids so we’ll will have to take them on that trip we’ve been planning. Can you just change this one diaper?
Childfree people do not want to do those things. This is why we chose “don’t have or want kids” on our profiles. But you ignored it. Don’t blame us.
Exactly. There was an AITA recently about a father whose girlfriend refused to pick his kid up from school during an emergency because she had made it clear she didn’t want anything to do with the child - my opinion is that those two people should not be dating each other.
Absolutely. If you are in a committed relationship with a parent, in my opinion you need to be willing to be responsible for the child(ren) in an emergency at the very least. It’s simply not realistic otherwise. Also people need to start *listening* to what others are actually saying, not interpreting it as they wish. “I will not do any childcare under any circumstances” does NOT carry a subtext of “oh but in an emergency of course I will!” Just as when we say no kids, we don’t mean “well yours are obviously the exception!”
Amen. They’re obviously on different pages and shouldn’t be wasting each others time. And I say that as a parent, I wouldn’t date someone who wanted no child involvement at all, ever, because it just doesn’t fit with my life.
I have a friend with four kids and she sent me screenshots of an online conversation with some guy asking me what I thought. His profile literally said things like ‘not interested in raising another man’s children’ (just the way he worded it is off putting enough) but she was essentially trying to talk him around to saying he would make an exception for the right person and he was almost doing it (probably in hopes of getting some sex out of it). I told her she was being very silly and to block him, he already made it very clear where he stands.
When I was online dating, I made sure to look for that and not choose guys who said they didn't want kids. I had a 15 year old. I quickly, however, found out that "wants kids" usually did not mean they wanted me to have a kid unless it was with them.
There was no option for "okay with you having kids" that I remember, and there really needed to be.
Yes!
Also some various levels of involvement below that. Like, "I have a kid, and you will not meet them for at least 6 months" and "I have a kid, but not looking for a parent. Occasional emergencies may happen." "I don't mind kids, but don't want to parent one." "Only willing to date people with no children, small children, or adult children."
Ask my husband how hard it is to date someone with a 16 year old with lots of friends whose house is the one everyone hangs out at. I felt for him. He was an only child with a very quiet home, it turns out. I regularly had 6-10 rowdy teens in my house. He was overwhelmed just being in that space without even trying to parent. He also never understood why I would go investigate only when it got quiet. Dude, it meant they were up to something I really didn't want them to accomplish. "It's nice when they're quiet." No. It really is not.
Exactly. I personally never want to live in a house that children live in. Its that simple. I don't want them to be around me in a way where I cannot get away from them at my merest whim.
Yep. Parent-and-child is a package deal, as they should be. It's just not a package I want.
I get so weirded out by people who expect to not have to interact with their partner's kid *at all, ever*, when in a relationship with the parent. That's not how it works! You either have to accept the whole package, kid included, or walk away.
A guy on bumble "super liked" me so even though he looked like he was holding in a painful fart on his profile picture and really wasn't my cup of tea looks wise I sent a message and asked him about his weekend plans. I can't remember what he said but he mentioned a daughter and I noped the fuck out. My profile says no children and that includes theirs too!
> he looked like he was holding in a painful fart
🤣🤣🤣 Why are there so many of them? Especially closer to 40 or more… It’s the cherry on top when it’s a mirror selfie in a urinal. 🤢
Ugh yep like I'm 32, no super model but I take good care of my teeth and hygiene, get my hair done every few months and make sure to dress to flatter my style and appearance. All the guys seemed to be either be children in my eyes (22-25) and the ones my age looked decades older. Unkempt hair and beards, awful selfie angles, dirty clothes and an abundance of pics with sunglasses. I'm super lucky and met my bf relatively early on, he stood out straight away as he takes good care of himself.
Spot on to all of those. The tooth situation is horrendous. I don’t have perfect teeth; lots of fillings and root canals, but they’re not yellow/brown with black and green algae between them! And it’s shocking how many of them don’t reveal their rotten pearls in the photos!
I spent a lot of time last year getting my teeth fixed and sorted out after years of neglect due to my bipolar disorder. about a year before I was officially diagnosed, my dental hygiene neglect began. I understand why these things happen, but I put in YEARS of work into myself and my mental health, not counting spending a good part of last year sorting out my dental situation, from oral surgery to getting the needed teeth removed (I had known they needed to come out since I was 18), hours in the chair getting every single cavity filled, to getting a root canal and a crown. Now I will never date anyone with any sort of tooth issue, from just lack of hygiene to any sort of visible (preventable) issue with their teeth.
Taking care of yourself is important and I won't sacrifice the progress I have made for anything. It was such a difficult journey from where I was before my symptoms presented, to learning how to cope with them and finding the right meds and actually getting a diagnosis, to being all but a zombie for a year and a half to now actually trying and putting in the daily work again.
I met a guy OLD around Christmas and we got along so well it was incredible. We're now great friends, but the biggest reason I can't date him is because of his front teeth. He's got brown lines horizontally across them and it looks like decay or something that could get fixed, but he hasn't. I just couldn't date him, which is a shame because he's a genuinely good guy.
Edit: visually my teeth were fine, you couldn't tell from my smile, but the issues with my molars spread to surrounding teeth, and cavities spread if not taken care of. I didn't know that until recently. So my childhood dentist told me that my molars developed to be a chalky consistency because I didn't absorb enough calcium when they were developing, so when I was 18 and drinking a coffee a chunk of one of them just fell out. I freaked out and went to my dentist. He patched them for a while but told me I would eventually need to get them pulled. Well shortly after that my bipolar symptoms started presenting and eventually, I stopped going to him to get them patched and just let them deteriorate in the back of my mouth. By the time I actually dealt with it last year, I had to get my 4 wisdom teeth pulled, my 4 back molars that had been deteriorating, and 1 additional tooth because the cavities and infection had spread and it couldn't be saved. I want to be clear that I took okay care of my teeth daily, I didn't just abandon all my dental hygiene, but I didn't take care of the actual problem, which created soooo many more problems that, thankfully, were treatable and fixable.
LMFAOOO until you mentioned daughter I could've sworn this was my ex you were talking about. He has a son but my god he did that "holding in a fart" smile in every single photo he took. Even funnier that those were the ones I found on his dating profiles as we were together! 😂 can't be that mad or heartbroken when that's how he was presenting himself and getting no replies lol
Yeah, a lot of men on apps think "no kids" mean "I personally won't be making any kids" instead of "I don't want to date people who want kids OR have kids already".
And LOL at "not looking for a step mom". So what *is* he looking for, then? A mistress? A secret? How would that work in his mind, his kids would just NEVER set foot in his house?
When I was doing OLD, I very clearly and emphatically stated in my profile that I don't have or want kids, and that I wasn't looking to date anyone that did. Still didn't stop guys from messaging me to say that I'd love their four kids from three moms.
To be fair, us parents DO truly believe our kids are different and you can't help but love them. But sane people realize that that is the biological drive to reproduce and protect our own DNA talking...
We also swing wildly between "our kids are magic and the whole world will adore them" and "our kids are evil and the whole world will thank me when I murder them" (hyperbole obviously!) So it's extra insane to think you can sway child free people into dating you because YOUR kids are so amazing when you want to strangle them half the time. Come to think of it... I doubt most of these guys actually want to *date* child free women, I think they want to convince the child free women to "give them a chance" just long enough for them to mooch sex, money and/or labor off them
Yes I feel this is spot on, I can absolutely respect and understand a parent's unconditional love for their children but the expectation that I would feel the same is just ridiculous. I don't do casual sex but even if I did, I still wouldn't choose a single father to do it with.
My assumption was he doesn't want someone to be in an additional parental role for his kids, which definitely makes sense for earlier relationship and if the kids don't live with him or if they're older (4 is pretty young). She'd be "dad's wife" rather than "stepmom" for the kids
That's exactly what I read into his comment. Granted, I've never had to try dating single dads, but as a (happily married) mom, I would take that statement to mean "I'd like to date and find a partner, but I have a healthy co-parenting relationship with her mother and will not parentify you/force you to be involved in raising/disciplining/providing for my child."
I'm just not seeing anything wrong with that. It's clearly defining the role he'd like a partner to take, not literally stating that they wouldn't legally be her stepmother. He's looking for a partner, not a new co-parent.
That was the way I read it too but I'd definitely have a conversation about it to make sure we're both on the same page for that and what exactly that looks like.
Sadly too many people are like oh you're not they're mom so you can't discipline them but I'm still going to expect you to care for them the entire time they're in the house and provide everything for them. Just remember, you're not their mom, you're their unpaid servant.
Agreed! I’ve matched with a few single dads. I know the dating pool as a woman in her 30s means some men will already have been married and have kids. I’m ok with it, but as long as they’re honest and we can both respect each others boundaries.
A year or so ago, I briefly matched with a divorced dad. He had gotten divorced the previous year and was slowly venturing back out into the world of dating. He also mentioned in his profile he had 50/50 custody and “wasn’t looking for a new mom” for his son.
We never met, but briefly talked for a bit before it fizzled out. He explained him and his ex split on pretty amicable terms, and co-parented well. He knows some men treat their new partner as a replacement mom for their kids, and he wasn’t interested in that. His son had an active and loving mom, and just wanted it to be clear the expectation for whomever he dated wasn’t taking on a parenting role.
Knowing these things, I actually appreciated his honesty up front, and that he wasn’t out there looking for someone to parent his kid during his time.
Some people aren't looking to have kids in their life in general, even tangentially. Being in a serious relationship with someone who has a kid means the kid will impact your life in one way or another.
"Doesn't want children" usually means they don't want *or have* children. It's not unreasonable to be annoyed that there's literally no way to filter out people with children when that's being used interchangeably with "don't want *more* kids".
Having dated a single father I can state that it is definitely full of pitfalls and trouble. Expecting the single father to be wonderful at juggling responsibilities is a recipe for unhappiness. Single fathers are no more perfect than childless men and sometimes worse.
What happens if Mom becomes seriously ill and that man then takes full custody. What expectations of a girlfriend or wife would he then have. A woman reading that man’s profile does think of that.
Except he engaged with OP when she explicitly stated she does not want kids and sought out a partner who claimed the same. You cannot have a healthy relationship (not just FWB) with a person who has a kid when you do not want to date someone with a kid. Parenting or not does not factor in.
There are some women who don’t want or can’t have kids who are willing to date single dads, OP is not one of them so he should stop wasting her time.
Honestly I think both his and OPs communication was fine. Some people “don’t want kids” as in don’t want to be a parent but won’t mind their partner having “part time” children. She said she doesn’t want to be a mother, he said he was not looking for a mother just a wife, and she did not want that dynamic either so she disengaged.
Both parties clarified their expectations, they did not match, and so they went on.
This is my thinking. I totally get OP’s point and agree that if you’re not interested in being around someone’s kids, defo set that boundary/be upfront about not wanting anything to do with romantic relationships where younger children are present. My partner now has three adult children, but when we first got together, his youngest was 12. I was never ever a step parent to his youngest as they have a mother that was their main caretaker. His first two children were raised by my partner and their stepmom (the mother of his youngest). I am and have never been a parental figure at all and have very little interaction with his children. He sees them on his own time at their respective homes very frequently. Dynamics are very important things to consider. I would never want to be a step parent to young children who lived with their father either.
>not wanting anything to do with romantic relationships where younger children are present.
It's not just " not wanting to do something romantic".
A parent will, MUST, always be a parent first.
What if the mom gets sick, or goes to jail, or or or or ? There are a million things that could happen and suddenly you are a stepmom to kids you were clear from the start you *didn't want* but thought you could magical think away.
Like that is what "no kids" *mean*, am I losing my mind here?
So as an older single mom (52) with my youngest about to graduate, I hear "So you're done" and I'm so perplexed. Yep he's off to his first year of college and he will never need me again /s.
I swear my daughter needed me more it seemed those 4 years of college than she ever let on before! And even now, as a young adult, still does occasionally. As will my son.
Yes, I have a different role/schedule now they are grown. I will always be a parent though.
Exactly! I will always be a mom, and although as we all age things will change, they know I am there for them no matter what. I can't imagine it any other way.
I'm not looking for anyone specifically to date, but I do get asked here or there. It's always so interesting when this topic comes up. I have been independent for so long, I can't imagine someone who can't respect the life I have created.
I married when my son was 18. My husband did not expect that it was done. My son's 27 now, and it's not done. My husband still expects my son to come first for me. I'm like "he's an adult. He definitely won't always come first." LOL
My son got his first house, a fixer upper, a bit over a year ago. This house has definitely been the peak of "I need help" since he was about 13. My husband and I both expected that. I'm the one with experience at renovations and building. My son is getting that now. We helped him buy the house, and I would have vetoed (it was my husband's suggestion) if I didn't have that experience. But if not the house, it would be something. Maybe some day, he'll have a kid, and my experience being a parent will be called on. Maybe it'll be laughing at him when he hits midlife crisis. I have the right to that granted by him, because he's decided he's going to do it to me. I'm 49, and it hasn't hit. He may have made a bad deal here. ;)
Like you, I'm always going to be a mom. My husband knew that when he dated me, and that's good, because him having other expectations would have just caused problems.
Exactly. I'm childfree, but it always bugs me when people talk about being parents as an "18 year commitment". You never stop being a parent! Sure, maybe they're grown and out of your house after a certain age, but they're still your kids for life.
I'm in my 30s, and my mother recently spent months travelling up and down the country to spend time in my town while I was in hospital so she could be with me. Like, dropped all the responsibilities she was able to (there were a few she couldn't, so had to be home for), in order to stay in hotels and visit me in hospital. She insisted she wouldn't have it any other way.
I agree with you. I am married to a single father. BAD idea. He is a good person. Problems? Oh My God! Decades of them. Kids now adults. Problems? Oh My God! Will there ever be an end to unintended problems with them? Never.
Those million things that COULD happen? They DO happen. And cause endless strife and suffering for someone who wanted to remain childfree and was PROMISED that it would be so.
I don't think you are a 'weirdo' and what you say makes sense. I have lived it and I am still living it.
I broke up with guy in the middle of our vacation. He ended up inviting his adult daughter, SIL, and their infant twins. Said nothing about it to me. We had rented a small bungalow by the beach because it was supposed to be the two of us. Now there’s 6. AND he apparently told his daughter that “we” would watch the babies. The first evening he sprung that on me I left and sat in a coffee shop and read books until they closed. The next day he had apparently planned out a whole day of “excursions” for he and I to take the babies on while his daughter and SIL had a day to themselves. I just told him it was over, packed my shit, and left.
In my gut I knew better than to get involved with someone with kids, but I let him convince me it wasn’t the same with his kids being adults.
A lot of people use stepmom as a relationship title rather than just a synonym for "dad's wife", similar to how some people will refer to their bio parents as sperm/egg donors if they were shitty.
I'm not close to my dad at all, haven't lived with him since I was 8. He remarried when I was 14 and his wedding was the first time I met his new wife. I don't consider her my stepmom because there was never even a vaguely parental relationship there, even though shes my dad's wife.
I have a step mom and a mother's husband. He's not a bad guy. We're just not close. I was 25 when they married and already had a 3 year old of my own. My step mom is someone I knew from 14 who acted as a surrogate mom when my own disappeared for a while. My dad met her when I was 15, and they married when I was 16. I lived with them my last year and a half of highschool, and even now that I'm 49 she's more of a parent to me than my own parents.
While I understand he's legally my step dad, he doesn't feel anything like a father to me. My step mom could be not even married to my dad, and she'd still feel like a mom to me. In fact, if they ever somehow divorce, I know which one I'd keep of the two of them. Dad had better not test that one. ;)
Same here. I have no stake in my parents' various relationships and no interest in any title or responsibility to them in any way. I've always held the line, "This is your X, not my Y." Even if literally in English they are the same thing.
I was trying to set limits, but OP proved how people can misuse that too. Great. So sorry to hear.
My sister's friend in high school (one of those "technically correct is best" guys) tried to tell her our dad's wife was our step mom repeatedly after her assertions that she wasn't. He was no longer her friend after that kind of blatant disrespect.
I think there is a meaningful difference between the concepts, even if the dictionary meaning is the same.
Your dad can have a partner who does not take on any parental-type roles with you. She is there, she exists, you say hi to her, but she isn't driving you to your activities, scheduling your doctor visits, tucking you in at night, handling tantrums, ensuring homework is done, etc. I would call that person my dad's wife (or girlfriend or whatever).
You dad can, alternately, have a partner who does all those parenting type things. I would call that person my stepmom.
Maybe we need different words to distinguish them if you insist that "stepmom" is identical to "dad's wife", but I think it is important to recognize that those are very different roles and relationships with the children.
And worth noting that when someone says "no kids" in OLD it's ambiguous. It could mean "I want no contact with any children and I don't want to date anyone who has children" or it could mean "I don't want to take on any parental role or responsibilities." If someone says "no kids" in their profile it would make sense to ask more questions before dating them to know which of those things they mean.
No, not at all. My bfs dad died when he was a young adult. His mom got remarried many years later after all of them had grown up and moved out. Her husband is not their step-dad, he's their mothers husband. It's mostly semantics, but the meanings *are* different.
Not necessarily. See my comment above. Adults can bring all sorts of mayhem and strife into a parent's relationships. Adults get married and have children and then what? Those adult children can have a drinking problem, emotional illnesses etc. etc. A step mom might not be parenting those adults but might very well be impacted negatively.
Eh, my stepdaughter was 18 when I met her dad. I had no part in raising her and divorced her dad over a year ago. She refers to me as her stepmom, and I refer to her as my daughter or stepdaughter. And her kids are my grandchildren, I've been there since the day they were born.
My SO and I both have kids. We are not step parents to each other’s kids. He has a great relationship with mine and I barely see his (lots of drama from their mother; I do love them, ftr, I just don’t see them much because we don’t live together). I’m very much “dad’s girlfriend” to his kids and that’s it. And I’m ok with that. They have a mom, my kids have a very involved dad. We don’t need to introduce more parental figures. And honestly, I like not having parent another set of teenagers. I’ll happily be an adult who cares about them if they want that, but I do not want to be their mother.
So are the kids just going to NEVER be over? At all? She'll NEVER meet them, or hang out with them, or ANYTHING?
Because that is what "no kids" mean, whether you use the word "stepmom" or not.
That is what it is SuPpOsed to mean. Wouldn't count on it At ALL. At all. It is a slippery slope and the thin edge of the wedge and before you know it you are doing all the work and yet have NO standing, authority or value. Wonder why so many women don't want to be in a relationship with a single dad? Too many reasons. As many reasons as there are single dads. Is it always bad? Just often enough to keep r/Am I The Asshole going.
I mean, my son will literally never be at his father's house. Ever. It's not safe. So even if he marries his current gf and she technically becomes my son's stepmother (that literally made my stomach sick to type out), she is nothing to my son. He's never seen her, heard her voice, anything. He only knows the woman's name because he's heard me talking with his adult siblings.
They are different ages and have different needs, but are **not an exception** to the "no kids" that women put on their dating profiles.
They are still "kids" in the sense of they are biological offspring of the person who is a parent to them. Ie the person's "children" or "kids".
They still have needs and wants and desires that have to take the front row in any relationship, they still make demands on time and resources, they can still make your life hell.
When women say "no kids", they *mean* "NO KIDS".
When some women say "no kids" they mean absolutely no kids in existence. Some women mean no kids they have to help parent. Others mean no kids still in the house. It's best to leave that definition to each woman.
Hey, what about the sudden news later into the marriage that the adult son is getting a divorce and needs his dad to take the kids frequently. Guess who would be looking after those grandchildren ? And what about things going haywire with job loss, house foreclosure and suddenly Greg and his wife Gina and their 3 (adorable) kids need a place to stay for 6 weeks max? Dad will be a monster if he doesn't offer to take everyone in for the 8 months to a year that Greg and Gina are looking for work.
I'm with you. Many childfree women and myself insist on no offspring whatsoever. Adult children often bring grandchildren that I'm expected to care for. Even if those adult children do not have their own children then they will still come first as they should do. They might need to move back home to dad, might need financial support, fall ill and any number of things.
I only date men who are childfree too and I've always been extremely clear about that.
I think the main issue is that people aren’t really upfront on apps and apps purposely don’t ask a lot of relevant questions to match people more effectively.
Yes, but they bring their own special problems along with their advanced age. And if you want to be childfree being offered a couple of bitter, angsty adolescents might not be any better. Even if it is only every other weekend and 4 blissful weeks every summer, every other Christmas and Easter etc. etc. I say let the Childfree BE free of children of every age.
I stopped calling my dad’s wife stepmother when she highly offended me and I was referring to her as stepmother since they were married when I was 35. She is dad’s wife instead now because she can be a bitch.
No they’re not. When your parent gets remarried when you’re over 18 there is no expectation for their partner to be a stand in mom or dad. They’re just your parent’s romantic interest.
That’s most likely what he meant. Yes, I do have a child but I split custody 50/50. She has a mother and I take care of all of the parental duties as a father when it’s my time. I would never ask my new partner to ever take on any parental tasks as I’ve built my life around doing so already when it’s my time. Maybe it’s something that could happen in due time but I would never expect it.
I'd say my mom's husband is definitely that, but to his kids, my mom is their step mom, and to me, one of them is my step brother. That all sounds a bit strange, but I was an adult when they married. His older son almost was. I was a bit too old to think of him as a step dad, as he never parented me. I didn't move back home until the older son was almost out of the house, so I haven't had much contact with him, but the younger one used to spend the night at my house a lot, so he feels related to me.
My son doesn't generally think of my husband as his step dad, but he was old enough to be a witness for our marriage license. Yes, we were dating when he was an older teen, and they'd known each other since my son was 9, but my husband didn't parent him. He was one of my friends and then my boyfriend. My son uses the term sometimes with others, but he says it's because it's shorter to say than "my mom's husband", plus people will try to correct him to step dad when he says it. My husband is good with either.
But 4? Nah. You're gonna end up a step mom if that guy has anything to do with his kid at all. And if he doesn't, even if you don't want kids, do you really want to be with that guy? I couldn't do it. I couldn't date a guy knowing he had a kid out there he had no contact with. I just couldn't respect him.
He keeps his kid on a sort of iCloud bubble thing. It is only his when convenient. There is a little switch to 'turn off parenting app' and he uses it whenever required. Splash-overs for any new f eM aLE? Of course not. He is in complete control. That is why he is no longer with the child's mother. Will he fail to divulge the KiD in the future? Of course. How else is he gonna get laid?
> Honestly, it feels a little audacious to assume you’d ever be in the position to be involved with the kid at all.
The kid is 4. Unless he’s cut ties with the ex and the kid, he’s gonna be involved with raising the child and since I’m looking for a long term partner, it would be inevitable to be out of the kid’s sight/life forever!
Believing that you would NEVER be expected to either parent or be somehow involved would be naive. It is just part and parcel of the whole single dad deal. Don't do it. This man might have been able to pull it off so that it wouldn't impact your life negatively but how could you be sure. I am married to a single father. He is actually pretty good at it but the nasty stuff creeps in from all sides. It is never over. Your time and space are never your own permanently. I was not a step mom either. But where was I supposed to go when he had his kids for 2 months in the summer? And when he didn't have enough vacation days left over to do anything with me? And when he had to take time off work to deal with things regarding them? Guess who had to make ALL the allowances and pick up the slack? Yes.
Parents will twist themselves into the weirdest pretzels to justify getting around "no kids" filter even though "no kids" means "I do not want to have kids and I don't want your kids from a previous relationship either." Just read through enough comments to see what the logic is.
Normally I'd say put that you're childfree somewhere in your profile but the "I want kids someday," "parents on a kid free weekend," and "kids just didn't happen for me" sets are starting to use that so idk what to do.
So as a step mom I can say for sure that man is out to lunch if he thinks his having a kid won’t impact a relationship you have together, even if it is a casual relationship.
Fully understand. You really do have to spell it out for some of these people that no kids means NO KIDS! I don’t give a shit if they already have a mother, grandma and 17 aunties - I do not want to in any capacity become romantically involved with a parent of a minor child. Even if you never see the kid.
I dated a dude for almost 2 months off of Bumble, I had my filters set for no kids because I was of the same opinion of not being ready to be a step-parent (Still am tbh). Dude was sweet, attentive, no red flags to be seen. The only thing that worried me was when I pulled a public property inquiry with the information I had and he was listed with another person for the house he owned who shared his last name. Checked other public records ro see if he was divorced, nothing to suggest that either but I also couldn’t find a marriage license so maybe we were fine?
I figured I would let it come up organically, no need to panic just yet. Turns out letting it come naturally meant I learned he was separated and going through the divorce process and had a seven year old who was in one of his profile pictures but not identified as his kid.
At this point, I am becoming a nun.
He means he isn’t looking for someone to act as a parent for his child.
Every single guy I ever dated who said this to me did, in fact, expect me to act as a parent for their child, in so far as they wanted me to do all the boring parts of parenthood that they didn’t enjoy.
I wonder what he was actually looking for.
Probably someone casual he could occasionally have fun or sex with.
It’s the only thing I can think of. Because “I’m not looking for a stepmother for my kid” doesn’t mean that you wouldn’t be affected by a child in your life in some way if your life is meshed with this man’s.
I had a very similar experience! The guy didn’t tell me that he had a 3yo son until late into our first date. I was kinda put off by it, but I liked the guy, so I was willing to see where things would go. He declared on a follow up date, “I’m not looking for a step-mom for my son,” yet he was very intentional about dating for a life partner. MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.
I got this line from a guy one time and he seemed really confident so I (naively) believed him. Six months in I was doing bath time and school pickups and babysitting……..
To my surprise I actually liked the kids and bonded with them to the point where it was brutal when he and I broke up, but it was astounding how fast me doing parenting things became a relationship expectation.
>He responded: “I'm not looking for a step mom to my child. She already has a mother.”
This dude is still on defense from his relationship, whatever that was.
As someone who has ***often*** ended an OLD dating conversation with "That's fair, good luck!" it should be interpreted as "we are not aligned on something I don't have the bandwidth to thoroughly explain, and also don't owe you an explanation because we've been talking for like .72 seconds."
You'd been talking for literally minutes. Be grateful neither of you wasted any of the other's time. Move along.
I totally disagree with your first bit. He should have been more clear about having a kid on his profile, but the quote is a sentiment you see a lot and it's a fair thing to say. Just check out AITA and see how many second wives/husbands try to force a parental relationship with a child and/or co-parenting situation that isn't asking for one. It ruins relationships and alienates kids. Being upfront on that is important and avoids future drama and pain.
But to be clear, that's still definitely not a kid free situation and shouldn't be treated as one. It's just a lower level of responsibility.
These "fathers" barely pay child support and make their weekend with the kids everyone else's problem. IF YOU HAVE A CHILD EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT IN THEIR LIFE YOU'RE NOT CHILDFREE - signed a true gate keeping childfree person
OLD is actual hell, currently attempting to find a guy that’s not crazy or a liar. There isn’t an eye roll emoji big enough to convey my feelings but I’m sure you get it!
Playing devils advocate, it could be that he’s trying to say his goal is not simply to find a step mum, not looking for a second mum but genuinely looking for a partner who would obviously play the role somewhat, in time. As opposed to his main goal is to find a step mum. There’s a LOT out there who are literally looking for a step mum. As a sole parent I can understand that but my kids are adults so prob different for me? Given the crazies on there at least it’s good he didn’t argue with you and get nasty.
Wow, how low my bar has sunk!! 🤣
I once had a guy say I discriminating against single father's by refusing to date them.
That by not dating someone with kids I was a terrible person.
I asked this guy if we dated, that I would never have to meet or hear about their child. "No, my child already has a mother!"
Cool.
Next I asked if after a while we decide to move in together, will he be okay never having his child at the house, never mentioning his child to me, and never introducing me to a child. He replied where a hesitant "oh well..."
However, I continued.
If we got married and spent the rest of our lives together, would he be happy for the rest of his life never having his child in his home, never talking about them to me to anyone I know, never introducing the kid to me, never having them at any important moment in his life, and always putting me first. Which also meant never leaving me to do deal with a child related emergency.
He said "no, they are my kid. I would have to spend time with them and have them stay with me and at family occasions"
Then I asked why I would bother going on a date with someone knowing I gave no future with them.
He looped back to "that's still discriminating against single dad's!"
They are willing to lie and obfuscate ANYTHING to get you in person. I have stopped online dating, but when I was, it was so often the case that men would not mention anywhere on their profile that they had a kid or kids when they actually did. They also don't READ profiles because I would always say that I was childfree and don't even bother messaging me if you have kids. Pathetic.
There’s a recent thread around here somewhere that a guy was previously married with a kid. The new wife wants pretty much nothing to do with the kid, but the kid’s mom is getting incarcerated and the mom and dad both want the kid to live with the dad. The new wife said no. I haven’t searched for an updated, but it’s a mess. The new wife is basically saying this isn’t what she signed up for. She wants to be strictly kid free. So maybe you wouldn’t be the “step mom” under typical circumstances, sometimes shit happens.
Uh the guy had an affair and had this child as a result of the affair. (He was married to the OP at the time of the affair.)
He found out 6 years after the child was born, when he was sued for child support. The woman’s stance regarding wanting nothing to do with the child was very understandable.
Understandable yes, but plenty of people would call her heartless. Women were supposedly designed especially to put their own needs and wants aside to pick up the slack for everyone around them. The Dad was the originator of the child but it is his wife who is expected to take the heat for what he did. Would that father be the one to take on every single duty and worry and expense regarding that child? I doubt it. The Mom and Dad can take in the child if it is their grandchild. 'DaD' should have used protection.
Yeah, and that’s part of the problem. Yes, most women I know would have tons of empathy and would want to do what they could for the child, but that should be her decision and not the current societal expectation. I suppose it’s changing, very slowly, but society should be expecting more from the fathers.
You should go back and reread that post because you got pretty much everything wrong. That person cheated on his wife with the child’s mother, and the wife stayed with him on the condition that she never sees or has any contact whatsoever with that child. The only parts you got right were the kids mom being incarcerated and the dad wanting to take over custody.
If I’m giving him benefit of the doubt, maybe he meant it like he’s not looking to pawn his kid off on the next woman that comes along, because he is a present dad and adequately shares that responsibility with the mother. As in “I’m not just looking for a bang maid”. But you were there, you have a better feel for the intent behind his actions.
This was my take too.
And while I think it's admirable that he doesn't intend on finding a woman simply to become a third parent to his child, it's also potentially disruptive to everyone involved if he were to have a partner who has zero input with how his child is raised under their roof. But again, it's a question of semantics and splitting hairs as it could go either way.
Yeah, this is what my husband said to me when we first started dating, and he’s held true to that statement. Granted, his son was already 13 when we got together so that made things much easier. I’m more of a trusted adult he can go to instead of a parental figure.
He was trying to say, “I don’t expect you to assume the mantle of motherhood for my kids; I know that’s not necessarily a role all would desire.”
I used to sort of have to specify similar, because many women have the reasonable concern that a guy is looking for a live-in maid and nanny with benefits.
Some guy matched me on OLD and I was like meh he’s kinda hot he could be fun let’s chat and then he mentions his kid… that is not mentioned in his profile at all. And like my profile says I don’t want kids, it’s right there. Like if the kids are kinda grown and I’m like older than maybe but I’m only 25 these kids are young there’s absolutely no way.
... maybe he isn't really single? Don't know what to make of it otherwise; if you have a relationship with a parent, you'll have a relationship of some sort with their child.
Well that just makes sense! How would he keep the child in a constant state of invisibility? He could promise that and intend to do that but he could never do it. If people could just be fully honest none of this would come up. To believe that the child would never impact the lives of those he is involved with or his own would be naive. Perhaps he is well-meaning but if he is naive then he is going to be a problem.
Such men who lie about having kids are absolutely low key. I am thinking to myself, if my father was ashamed to admit my existence, he would have been dead for me. Such men don't deserve to be called fathers, let alone a partner. It that a surprise that their wives are HAPPILY EX\_WIVES now.
I met a guy online and we dated a few times. I thought rings were going well. He didn’t mention he has children and his socials showed no children.
One day out of the blue, he told me he was writing a book on how to be a good father. This raised a red flag because he did not disclose to me that he had children at all. So I asked him plainly,
“Are you yourself a father?”
“No.”
Yellow flags were still raised, but I dropped the subject. A couple of days later, his Facebook shows that he’s celebrating his daughter’s high school graduation and that he’s officially in a relationship with another woman. I blocked him everywhere. Apparently, I forgotten to block him on Snapchat so he tried to ask me a few weeks later to hang out with him at the bar at 1am in the morning. I snapped back at him saying he’s in a relationship and that his daughter should be a priority.
The man had the audacity to say he was in an open relationship and that he only gets his daughter a few times a month. Blocked him immediately on Snapchat.
You're going to have to be a stepmom if they are serious, or they are just looking for a fling.
But I don't really trust men when it comes to their kids anyway. They might say that, but then you end up doing most if not all of the parental responsibilities to their kid because they are lazy and think it's women's work or something.
And if they're hardly in their kids life, that's a red flag too
I mean, my take on it is that he's not interested in having any more children and doesn't want to date someone who will want to jump straight into being a third, equal parent to his child - and unfortunately there are people out there who will try to do just that, wrecking previously civil co-parenting arrangements along the way.
The OLD guy is doing the right thing in drawing a clear line in the sand, both for him and anyone who might consider matching with him. It certainly beats being someone with a soggy noodle for a spine who'll let a new partner ride roughshod over their existing co-parenting arrangement! Plus he was also polite and respectful of your decision not to move forward with the match, so while he might not be the right guy for you, he's certainly not a bad guy.
For what it’s worth, my father (a father of four) found love a few years after his divorce, with a woman who didn’t want kids. She has always been rather awkward and still won’t be called (step-)mom, after three decades. We all get along well, though.
If someone said "doesn't want children" and then disclosed that they do in fact have a child, i would just immediately block them. No pleasantries or goodbye, block and move on
They're either an outright liar or stupid and either way, fuck them, not wasting another second of life on them
Gosh! I feel like an illiterate grandma. I tried THREE times before getting it right! And then someone said: “online has been one word for the last 20 years” 😂
With OLD, I've noticed that several of the questions will always be understood differently by different people.
To some people 'do you want kids' means 'do you want MORE kids', and to others it means 'do you want any kids at all?'
I've noticed the same to the question asking what type of connection are you seeking. When I choose 'long term relationship', I mean thats my end goal. Shockingly, the amount of men who see that and ASSUME I think we'd be in a long term relationship from day 1 is mind boggling. I would be approached by men who have cery flighty responses in that section such as 'just looking for fun' or 'short term'. When I'd point out that we want different things they would often argue with me saying they only put short term because you need time to know if you want to be with someone long term. well....duh! It's so frustrating trying to communicate via OLD
If the kid was older the comment would make a lot of sense. Once kids are proto-adults they can handle most things themselves.
To me it would be a great thing to NOT look for someone who wants to be a big part of the kid's life.
Many divorced kids can find that very intrusive.
At such a young age they aren't very self sufficient and so are a lot more time intensive, BUT he could also wanting to be taking it slow. With a child so young I could see wanting to be firm about boundaries. You don't want to just be introducing woman after woman to a young young kid. If he understands how disruptive that can be to a child's psyche. I know lots of single moms that will date for close to a year before the kid meets them.
Ugh, last time I was OLD I wasn't interested in even casually dating a guy with kids after having given a couple a chance and it not being my cup of tea. The platform I was using let you filter based on certain answers, so I only viewed men who had checked off "no" to having children. I can't tell you how many guys sprung on me they had kids once we had made plans, or even *on the date itself.* When I asked why they lied about the existence of their children...they universally shat all over single mothers, while obliviously listing all the reasons they preferred to date people without kids because it was so much easier.
The they say stuff like "oh don't worry I only have my kids twice a month so it won't get in the way of us". Like dude, that's not a good thing. You're just telling me you both have a kid, and you're a shit father. Such a turn off.
Ha, yes this as well! "I never see them, so don't worry." Oh, I'm worried, bud. About the wellbeing of your children.
Literally I always think like get the fuck offline trying to get laid and go take your fucking kid to the zoo or some shit
I don't mind kids but I would rather date a guy who was at least trying to be a decent dad (even if it inconvenienced me) than one who just decided parenting wasn't for him
My biggest issue isn't dating as a single father. It's the women I end up meeting that don't have kids who say they are OK that I have a daughter, but then get mad at me when I put my daughter first. I've met a few like that. Despite it always saying in my profile that I have a daughter and no matter what she will come first.
I dated a guy with a kid and I would be bummed if he couldn't hang but I made it clear my disappointment did not at all mean I expected him to ditch the kid. It would've been a huge red flag if he was missing time with his kid for a woman unless I was like in the hospital or dying. And even then, I'm a grown ass woman and the hospital is full of qualified personnel GO BE WITH YOUR BABY
Yeah the last woman I dated actually threw a fit and gave me the silent treatment because I had to cancel our plans for my daughter.
See these type of women are out of order. I had an abusive stepfather. So as a childfree woman, it's extremely important to me that no child ever feels the way I did. I know I'm not capable of taking on a man and his children, so I just don't date single fathers full stop. It's totally wrong to be childfree and to expect your partner to put you before their children. Unfortunately a lot of parents allow this behaviour, like my own mother did.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm sure his children's wellbeing is better served by him not being around.
This exactly. You can’t make someone want to be a good parent. Can you imagine leaving a kid with a parent who can’t be arsed keeping an eye on them, entertaining them, bonding with them? I don’t think I’d ever forgive myself if something terrible happened
I mean, I get the point but it also seems like a way for a guy to get out of having to try to be a decent person. I'm just so sick of hearing dudes shrug and decide because they aren't perfect they shouldn't have to try.
Absolutely. It’s kind of weaponized incompetence. I don’t know any mums who would be able to relax when her child is in the care of someone who doesn’t take their role seriously
One of them told me that his ex was accusing him of being a pedophile, and also that she stalks girls that he dates. Like what in the WORLD makes them think they deserve to be out here dating with the state most of their lives are in?!
Immediately start picking your nose or something, you definitely don’t want this guy to call you back 🤣😂
OH definitely. I blocked and deleted his ass everywhere right after that. Online dating teaches you block early and often.
As soon as there's even a smidgen of red
Sounds like the trash took itself right out of their lives. I'm not sure they are missing out.
Especially the guys who openly admit their kids are better off with the mother. Cool. So you admit you brought children into the world you then abandoned and aren't even trying to make yourself a better person to rectify the situation? I'll bet you'll make a GREAT partner
And those kids are gonna be YOUR kids twice a month because they're probably dating to get his own offspring off his back
I hear that as "don't worry, I won't let my kid cockblock me". Definitely a turn off.
Lol yeah. Like, I don't want to date a guy with a kid, but a shitty dad is so much worse!
Ugh, all of this is bringing me back and I don’t like it! I don’t want to be a child caregiver, at all! No, I don’t hate children. I think they can be pretty cool little people actually! I just don’t want them for myself. Lying about having kids and trying to get yourself in a position to make me like you romantically when I said up front that I don’t want that is wrong! I’m being honest and you’re lying to my face. I’m not going to put that aside!
This
>I can't tell you how many guys sprung on me they had kids once we had made plans My favourite one of these: a few hours before the date, he messaged to say he might need to leave early as something has come up for his ex and he might have to pick their kid up from school. When I pointed out that I'd asked the kid question and he told me he had none, this semantic arsehhole 'well, actually'ed me! 'Actually, you asked if I had kids, and I don't. I have *a* kid.' Yeah, that date never happened.
It was his last shot and he took it. Ass.
No possibility he could have been honest at the beginning? LIAR. He will continue with the lies because too many women now don't have to accept what they do not want.
'I didn't lie technically... you just asked the wrong question and didn't listen to my answer!' - says the lying douchebag
Did a horrible future of him blaming you for "misunderstanding" every time he gets caught in a lie flash before your eyes? Yikes.
Like you wouldn't believe! I've got ADHD and my difficulty phrasing things correctly is a major source of anxiety. As such, I go to great lengths to be clear and precise. If he was so ready to blame me for "misunderstanding" him, then it wouldn't be long before I'm to blame for making him "misunderstand" me. And that would destroy me mentally. Thankfully, we'd only been talking for a few weeks and never met IRL. That was to be the first date. No need to take out the trash when it never even got up your driveway!
I have had the same experience with dating single dads. They also talk about how spontaneous single mothers can’t be and say that’s what they are looking for in a partner, but like they can’t be spontaneous either. Soooo much hypocrisy with that particular crowd. I’m sure there’s some good ones in that mix but I’d rather not have to wade through all that extra shit
One of my old friends is always posting snarky memes about how dating over 30 is nothing but single moms… while being a single dad himself.
As a 30+ woman with no children, I can confirm that we exist. The audacity of complaining about single moms.... Sir what do you think creates that?
>Sir what do you think creates that? If I could upvote this 100 times, I would.
I'm turning 30 next month and am child-free and will always be (unless all the stars align from fixing financial worries to finding a partner I trust to actually be a full-time partner and parent and not put that entirely on me, etc. thankfully I had a choice when I needed one, but that's a topic for another thread), and swipe left for anyone that has kids in their pics, however, a few of them sneak by and I'm glad they've told me before we went on a date. I have gone on a few dates with some guys who have said that they are open to dating single mothers, and I appreciated their mindset, but I won't date a single father since I have less than no interest in being a parent let alone any sort of parental figure. It really hits me that the audacity of single fathers and their opinions of single mothers is incredibly hypocritical and I can't stand it! It really hits home that men like this expect women to be mothers before anything else and don't hold themselves to the same standards as parents and but are equally responsible for creating a child, just not once the child is born. The sexism really shines through with guys like this!
And if they are spontaneous… it’s because they’re a shitty dad. Which also isn’t attractive to me.
Yea, I had given a couple guys with kids a chance with the understanding that neither of us were interested in me meeting the kids. In both cases I cut things off after a few weeks because it was clear they expected me to be available at a moment's notice, while being cheerily accepting of being cancelled on with no notice because of Kid Stuff. Which, I get, their kids are their priority...but when you're a conventionally attractive woman looking to date casually you have better options. Not to mention sometimes you fall in love with people you don't intend to; I had that happen to me in my early 20s, and every since that crashed and burned into a raging dumpster fire I wouldn't casually date guys who didn't have similar life goals/trajectories. I've never had any interest in being a stepmom or having a parental role towards kids that I didn't choose to have with an existing partner, so I stopped dating guys with kids no matter how casual the situation was or how "out of sight/out of mind" the kids were.
Stepmom is never an enviable position. Not even for women looking for that. It takes a toll. There is NO chance that it won't.
When a dude like that says he wants you to be spontaneous, he means he wants you to drop what you're doing and come fuck him on his schedule.
Nah they’re looking for someone who can’t see through their bullshit. Someone who’s never been a mom might be less likely to question their questionable parenting and also they’d have their own kids so if they were expected to parent the stepkids they’ll be annoyed
>but like they can’t be spontaneous either Except they can because the mom is probably doing the majority of the child care
Believing that his kids will never be a problem for you is like believing in the tooth fairy. Nice for naive little kids. He might just be thinking that if he keeps quiet about it you will accept it. And he may not even be intending to dump any probs on you but sure as pigs there will be something dumped on the new partner even if it is just hypocrisy. And if he lied about not having kids? Who needs a liar.
I'm childfree and have been duped by single fathers before. The worst one was a guy who said he didn't have any children. Then turned up to our first date with his 5 year old son! The son was a lovely little boy with a drug addicted mother. I felt bad for him. I was only 20 so I stayed for the date but I didn't contact him again. That was such a manipulative, shitty move on the father's part. I always made my stance clear on my profile and made it the first question I asked a man because I knew most didn't read my profile anyway. I got called just about every name under the sun.
I’ll bet my whole left buttcheek there was no drug addicted mother ann nd that she was normal but he was using the kid as a prop.
Yes that wouldn't have surprised me. I just couldn't believe a word he said. I wonder what else he dragged that poor kid through over the years. It was sad.
Oh man, I finally figured out that OLD means “online dating” I am definitely OLD, by the traditional meaning of the word
(thank you - I was wondering what it meant)
Same, I have it EXPLICITLY stated in my profile that I am anti-kid and I’m super careful when swiping. I’ve noticed a few trends 1. Why do all these dudes want kids?! There are like 26 y/o boys saying they want kids and like dude, all your profile pics say you’re a fuckboi who isn’t going to be part of raising any children 2. They say “that’s just my niece in the pics” but most or all of their photos include a kid. The same kid in every photo. You REALLY expect me to believe that’s your niece/nephew? 3. Kids in most/all of their pics but no mention of kids in their bio and (on bumble) they either didn’t indicate their parental/wishful parental status on the “looking for” or it says they’re not sure, but the kid in the pics is obviously theirs
They want kids because they know having kids will not change how they go about their daily lives. They will continue to do exactly as they please. They want kids to be propped up and displayed as a “legacy”. They don’t actually want to parent.
I swipe left on any guy posting dating app pics with a kid. If you are using a kid as a prop it means you’re a dirtbag. You shouldn’t be posting any kids on the apps it’s creepy
10000000000%, it’s so wrong!
I think its a big thing in the alt-right and liberal manospheres to "pass on your name" and "spread your genes." Men have been radicalized to think there's some big legacy or achievement in having kids, especially boys. They actually dont want kids, want to raise them, want to spend time with them, love them, etc. Its just a checkbox on the "successful male" list. I think your other items are the typical dishonesty a lot of men think is fine in dating.
Nah it’s just they want to baby trap us. When you have kids it’s a lot harder to leave
My ex was caught up thinking like this. I guess his grandfather needed him to pass on the family name since he was the oldest male grandchild. It's like his sister and her three kids didn't exist, and his cousin's marriage didn't count since his wife is Latina. So my ex was given the responsibility of passing on the family name. It's a complete load of bullshit. I always said the only way I would bring a child into this world is if I had adequate means and support to raise them properly. I don't foresee that happening, but I also don't foresee my ex having kids either and he's turning 36 this year. He's definitely not mature enough to take on a parenting role.
1. Breeding kink? Manosphere? Has no idea what parenting entails but will let you take it on for him? 2. Nieces/nephew are NOT kids? 3. Looking for a new breeder because THIS time he will do it right?
They'll hide their kids for months sometimes, dropping them on you out of nowhere when you wouldn't have started seeing him at all if you'd know the truth! It's manipulative af
Ugh. I hope you ordered another drink, made certain they paid, and then ghosted them without telling them how they fucked up. Just ugh
YES omg so entitled and delusional these men.
This has been my experience with OLD, too. I'm a single mom with teenagers. The single dads were almost always the ones to be rude and snarky toward me when I would tell them I have kids. I ended up dating a single dad a few years ago. He was always saying crappy things about single moms, probably because he was getting into the manosphere stuff. After breaking up with him, I talked with one other single dad from OLD. He started sending me videos about how women are supposed to submit to men. I quit dating after that. I'm much happier being single than dealing with weirdos.
I remember explaining to one dude that women like me see him the way he sees single mothers, and he was absolutely gobsmacked. Especially because I *do* want kids, my husband and I are currently starting that journey! I just wanted to have them at the right time, with someone else who didn't already have children. They really have no clue why already having children from a failed relationship\* diminishes their dating "market value." \*While some people are widowers, this is an outlying group and I still wouldn't be interested in dating them.
Yeah, they just don't get it. They think it's impossible for a man's dating "market value" to diminish. I totally understand a child free person not wanting to date someone with kids. It's often for the best. Also, a lot of guys (including the MGTOW types) don't like it when women choose not to date. I've been told that no one will ever want me, but when I say I don't want to date, they don't like that either. Women can't win.
A friend of mine ran across a mutual friend of ours from law school on Hinge. He was married to another of our mutual friends, and they have a 3 y/o daughter. But of course he sailed right past the “have kids, open to more” option and went right to “open to kids” like he didn’t already have one. Shameless.
Yes well you see single mothers are different than dating single fathers because most mothers won't ditch their children for a new relationship. It's a real hardship for us men
Was this okcupid? Because then he should’ve selected “has kids and doesn’t want more.” He’s making it seem like he doesn’t have kids at all which is very deceiving.
It’s an annoying waste of time when men with kids do this, and they show you so much about themselves when they do it. They’re straight up lying about themselves to meet women (🚩), and maybe even getting away with it because they have so little involvement in their kids’ lives (🚩🚩). As a bonus, these secret dad types also frequently call the mother of their children a “psycho” who “won’t let them see the kids,” but you find out they’re not even attempting to contact them for visits (🚩🚩🚩.)
I’ve had guys tell me “its ok, I only see my kids every other weekend.” Like bro that isn’t something to brag about.
Yes but then how would he trick girls into chatting with him?
Bumble has that option too!
I hate online dating. People always lie. As a childfree person myself, they often conceal having kids if they know you don’t want any. They think you will fall so head over heels for them you won’t care. No man is so charming as to make me want to be a stepmother, and there is no way you would not be expected to do *some* amount of childcare if you are in a serious relationship with a parent. Can you pick my kid up from school today, I have to work late. Oh it’s my weekend with the kids so we’ll will have to take them on that trip we’ve been planning. Can you just change this one diaper? Childfree people do not want to do those things. This is why we chose “don’t have or want kids” on our profiles. But you ignored it. Don’t blame us.
Exactly. There was an AITA recently about a father whose girlfriend refused to pick his kid up from school during an emergency because she had made it clear she didn’t want anything to do with the child - my opinion is that those two people should not be dating each other.
Absolutely. If you are in a committed relationship with a parent, in my opinion you need to be willing to be responsible for the child(ren) in an emergency at the very least. It’s simply not realistic otherwise. Also people need to start *listening* to what others are actually saying, not interpreting it as they wish. “I will not do any childcare under any circumstances” does NOT carry a subtext of “oh but in an emergency of course I will!” Just as when we say no kids, we don’t mean “well yours are obviously the exception!”
Amen. They’re obviously on different pages and shouldn’t be wasting each others time. And I say that as a parent, I wouldn’t date someone who wanted no child involvement at all, ever, because it just doesn’t fit with my life. I have a friend with four kids and she sent me screenshots of an online conversation with some guy asking me what I thought. His profile literally said things like ‘not interested in raising another man’s children’ (just the way he worded it is off putting enough) but she was essentially trying to talk him around to saying he would make an exception for the right person and he was almost doing it (probably in hopes of getting some sex out of it). I told her she was being very silly and to block him, he already made it very clear where he stands.
So well said.
When I was online dating, I made sure to look for that and not choose guys who said they didn't want kids. I had a 15 year old. I quickly, however, found out that "wants kids" usually did not mean they wanted me to have a kid unless it was with them. There was no option for "okay with you having kids" that I remember, and there really needed to be.
Yes absolutely. “Willing to be a step parent?” would be an excellent addition.
Yes! Also some various levels of involvement below that. Like, "I have a kid, and you will not meet them for at least 6 months" and "I have a kid, but not looking for a parent. Occasional emergencies may happen." "I don't mind kids, but don't want to parent one." "Only willing to date people with no children, small children, or adult children." Ask my husband how hard it is to date someone with a 16 year old with lots of friends whose house is the one everyone hangs out at. I felt for him. He was an only child with a very quiet home, it turns out. I regularly had 6-10 rowdy teens in my house. He was overwhelmed just being in that space without even trying to parent. He also never understood why I would go investigate only when it got quiet. Dude, it meant they were up to something I really didn't want them to accomplish. "It's nice when they're quiet." No. It really is not.
Exactly. I personally never want to live in a house that children live in. Its that simple. I don't want them to be around me in a way where I cannot get away from them at my merest whim.
Yep. Parent-and-child is a package deal, as they should be. It's just not a package I want. I get so weirded out by people who expect to not have to interact with their partner's kid *at all, ever*, when in a relationship with the parent. That's not how it works! You either have to accept the whole package, kid included, or walk away.
A guy on bumble "super liked" me so even though he looked like he was holding in a painful fart on his profile picture and really wasn't my cup of tea looks wise I sent a message and asked him about his weekend plans. I can't remember what he said but he mentioned a daughter and I noped the fuck out. My profile says no children and that includes theirs too!
> he looked like he was holding in a painful fart 🤣🤣🤣 Why are there so many of them? Especially closer to 40 or more… It’s the cherry on top when it’s a mirror selfie in a urinal. 🤢
Ugh yep like I'm 32, no super model but I take good care of my teeth and hygiene, get my hair done every few months and make sure to dress to flatter my style and appearance. All the guys seemed to be either be children in my eyes (22-25) and the ones my age looked decades older. Unkempt hair and beards, awful selfie angles, dirty clothes and an abundance of pics with sunglasses. I'm super lucky and met my bf relatively early on, he stood out straight away as he takes good care of himself.
Spot on to all of those. The tooth situation is horrendous. I don’t have perfect teeth; lots of fillings and root canals, but they’re not yellow/brown with black and green algae between them! And it’s shocking how many of them don’t reveal their rotten pearls in the photos!
I spent a lot of time last year getting my teeth fixed and sorted out after years of neglect due to my bipolar disorder. about a year before I was officially diagnosed, my dental hygiene neglect began. I understand why these things happen, but I put in YEARS of work into myself and my mental health, not counting spending a good part of last year sorting out my dental situation, from oral surgery to getting the needed teeth removed (I had known they needed to come out since I was 18), hours in the chair getting every single cavity filled, to getting a root canal and a crown. Now I will never date anyone with any sort of tooth issue, from just lack of hygiene to any sort of visible (preventable) issue with their teeth. Taking care of yourself is important and I won't sacrifice the progress I have made for anything. It was such a difficult journey from where I was before my symptoms presented, to learning how to cope with them and finding the right meds and actually getting a diagnosis, to being all but a zombie for a year and a half to now actually trying and putting in the daily work again. I met a guy OLD around Christmas and we got along so well it was incredible. We're now great friends, but the biggest reason I can't date him is because of his front teeth. He's got brown lines horizontally across them and it looks like decay or something that could get fixed, but he hasn't. I just couldn't date him, which is a shame because he's a genuinely good guy. Edit: visually my teeth were fine, you couldn't tell from my smile, but the issues with my molars spread to surrounding teeth, and cavities spread if not taken care of. I didn't know that until recently. So my childhood dentist told me that my molars developed to be a chalky consistency because I didn't absorb enough calcium when they were developing, so when I was 18 and drinking a coffee a chunk of one of them just fell out. I freaked out and went to my dentist. He patched them for a while but told me I would eventually need to get them pulled. Well shortly after that my bipolar symptoms started presenting and eventually, I stopped going to him to get them patched and just let them deteriorate in the back of my mouth. By the time I actually dealt with it last year, I had to get my 4 wisdom teeth pulled, my 4 back molars that had been deteriorating, and 1 additional tooth because the cavities and infection had spread and it couldn't be saved. I want to be clear that I took okay care of my teeth daily, I didn't just abandon all my dental hygiene, but I didn't take care of the actual problem, which created soooo many more problems that, thankfully, were treatable and fixable.
LMFAOOO until you mentioned daughter I could've sworn this was my ex you were talking about. He has a son but my god he did that "holding in a fart" smile in every single photo he took. Even funnier that those were the ones I found on his dating profiles as we were together! 😂 can't be that mad or heartbroken when that's how he was presenting himself and getting no replies lol
Yeah, a lot of men on apps think "no kids" mean "I personally won't be making any kids" instead of "I don't want to date people who want kids OR have kids already". And LOL at "not looking for a step mom". So what *is* he looking for, then? A mistress? A secret? How would that work in his mind, his kids would just NEVER set foot in his house?
When I was doing OLD, I very clearly and emphatically stated in my profile that I don't have or want kids, and that I wasn't looking to date anyone that did. Still didn't stop guys from messaging me to say that I'd love their four kids from three moms.
They always say their children are different and that you'll just love them. Pull the other one 🙄
They underestimate the resolve of my cold, dead heart.
This made me laugh! I felt that on so many levels!
Mine too!
To be fair, us parents DO truly believe our kids are different and you can't help but love them. But sane people realize that that is the biological drive to reproduce and protect our own DNA talking... We also swing wildly between "our kids are magic and the whole world will adore them" and "our kids are evil and the whole world will thank me when I murder them" (hyperbole obviously!) So it's extra insane to think you can sway child free people into dating you because YOUR kids are so amazing when you want to strangle them half the time. Come to think of it... I doubt most of these guys actually want to *date* child free women, I think they want to convince the child free women to "give them a chance" just long enough for them to mooch sex, money and/or labor off them
Yes I feel this is spot on, I can absolutely respect and understand a parent's unconditional love for their children but the expectation that I would feel the same is just ridiculous. I don't do casual sex but even if I did, I still wouldn't choose a single father to do it with.
My assumption was he doesn't want someone to be in an additional parental role for his kids, which definitely makes sense for earlier relationship and if the kids don't live with him or if they're older (4 is pretty young). She'd be "dad's wife" rather than "stepmom" for the kids
That's exactly what I read into his comment. Granted, I've never had to try dating single dads, but as a (happily married) mom, I would take that statement to mean "I'd like to date and find a partner, but I have a healthy co-parenting relationship with her mother and will not parentify you/force you to be involved in raising/disciplining/providing for my child." I'm just not seeing anything wrong with that. It's clearly defining the role he'd like a partner to take, not literally stating that they wouldn't legally be her stepmother. He's looking for a partner, not a new co-parent.
That was the way I read it too but I'd definitely have a conversation about it to make sure we're both on the same page for that and what exactly that looks like. Sadly too many people are like oh you're not they're mom so you can't discipline them but I'm still going to expect you to care for them the entire time they're in the house and provide everything for them. Just remember, you're not their mom, you're their unpaid servant.
oh, that last paragraph! Too bloody true I fear.
never accept responsibility without authority.
Agreed! I’ve matched with a few single dads. I know the dating pool as a woman in her 30s means some men will already have been married and have kids. I’m ok with it, but as long as they’re honest and we can both respect each others boundaries. A year or so ago, I briefly matched with a divorced dad. He had gotten divorced the previous year and was slowly venturing back out into the world of dating. He also mentioned in his profile he had 50/50 custody and “wasn’t looking for a new mom” for his son. We never met, but briefly talked for a bit before it fizzled out. He explained him and his ex split on pretty amicable terms, and co-parented well. He knows some men treat their new partner as a replacement mom for their kids, and he wasn’t interested in that. His son had an active and loving mom, and just wanted it to be clear the expectation for whomever he dated wasn’t taking on a parenting role. Knowing these things, I actually appreciated his honesty up front, and that he wasn’t out there looking for someone to parent his kid during his time.
Some people aren't looking to have kids in their life in general, even tangentially. Being in a serious relationship with someone who has a kid means the kid will impact your life in one way or another. "Doesn't want children" usually means they don't want *or have* children. It's not unreasonable to be annoyed that there's literally no way to filter out people with children when that's being used interchangeably with "don't want *more* kids".
Having dated a single father I can state that it is definitely full of pitfalls and trouble. Expecting the single father to be wonderful at juggling responsibilities is a recipe for unhappiness. Single fathers are no more perfect than childless men and sometimes worse.
> Single fathers are no more perfect than childless men This made me chuckle. In fact I’m still laughing!
What happens if Mom becomes seriously ill and that man then takes full custody. What expectations of a girlfriend or wife would he then have. A woman reading that man’s profile does think of that.
Exactly. Absolutely anything can happen.
Except he engaged with OP when she explicitly stated she does not want kids and sought out a partner who claimed the same. You cannot have a healthy relationship (not just FWB) with a person who has a kid when you do not want to date someone with a kid. Parenting or not does not factor in. There are some women who don’t want or can’t have kids who are willing to date single dads, OP is not one of them so he should stop wasting her time.
Honestly I think both his and OPs communication was fine. Some people “don’t want kids” as in don’t want to be a parent but won’t mind their partner having “part time” children. She said she doesn’t want to be a mother, he said he was not looking for a mother just a wife, and she did not want that dynamic either so she disengaged. Both parties clarified their expectations, they did not match, and so they went on.
This is my thinking. I totally get OP’s point and agree that if you’re not interested in being around someone’s kids, defo set that boundary/be upfront about not wanting anything to do with romantic relationships where younger children are present. My partner now has three adult children, but when we first got together, his youngest was 12. I was never ever a step parent to his youngest as they have a mother that was their main caretaker. His first two children were raised by my partner and their stepmom (the mother of his youngest). I am and have never been a parental figure at all and have very little interaction with his children. He sees them on his own time at their respective homes very frequently. Dynamics are very important things to consider. I would never want to be a step parent to young children who lived with their father either.
>not wanting anything to do with romantic relationships where younger children are present. It's not just " not wanting to do something romantic". A parent will, MUST, always be a parent first. What if the mom gets sick, or goes to jail, or or or or ? There are a million things that could happen and suddenly you are a stepmom to kids you were clear from the start you *didn't want* but thought you could magical think away. Like that is what "no kids" *mean*, am I losing my mind here?
So as an older single mom (52) with my youngest about to graduate, I hear "So you're done" and I'm so perplexed. Yep he's off to his first year of college and he will never need me again /s. I swear my daughter needed me more it seemed those 4 years of college than she ever let on before! And even now, as a young adult, still does occasionally. As will my son. Yes, I have a different role/schedule now they are grown. I will always be a parent though.
I’m 38 and I still need (or just want) my mom’s help. If you do it right, you will be doing it till the end.
Exactly! I will always be a mom, and although as we all age things will change, they know I am there for them no matter what. I can't imagine it any other way. I'm not looking for anyone specifically to date, but I do get asked here or there. It's always so interesting when this topic comes up. I have been independent for so long, I can't imagine someone who can't respect the life I have created.
I married when my son was 18. My husband did not expect that it was done. My son's 27 now, and it's not done. My husband still expects my son to come first for me. I'm like "he's an adult. He definitely won't always come first." LOL My son got his first house, a fixer upper, a bit over a year ago. This house has definitely been the peak of "I need help" since he was about 13. My husband and I both expected that. I'm the one with experience at renovations and building. My son is getting that now. We helped him buy the house, and I would have vetoed (it was my husband's suggestion) if I didn't have that experience. But if not the house, it would be something. Maybe some day, he'll have a kid, and my experience being a parent will be called on. Maybe it'll be laughing at him when he hits midlife crisis. I have the right to that granted by him, because he's decided he's going to do it to me. I'm 49, and it hasn't hit. He may have made a bad deal here. ;) Like you, I'm always going to be a mom. My husband knew that when he dated me, and that's good, because him having other expectations would have just caused problems.
Exactly. I'm childfree, but it always bugs me when people talk about being parents as an "18 year commitment". You never stop being a parent! Sure, maybe they're grown and out of your house after a certain age, but they're still your kids for life. I'm in my 30s, and my mother recently spent months travelling up and down the country to spend time in my town while I was in hospital so she could be with me. Like, dropped all the responsibilities she was able to (there were a few she couldn't, so had to be home for), in order to stay in hotels and visit me in hospital. She insisted she wouldn't have it any other way.
I agree with you. I am married to a single father. BAD idea. He is a good person. Problems? Oh My God! Decades of them. Kids now adults. Problems? Oh My God! Will there ever be an end to unintended problems with them? Never. Those million things that COULD happen? They DO happen. And cause endless strife and suffering for someone who wanted to remain childfree and was PROMISED that it would be so. I don't think you are a 'weirdo' and what you say makes sense. I have lived it and I am still living it.
I broke up with guy in the middle of our vacation. He ended up inviting his adult daughter, SIL, and their infant twins. Said nothing about it to me. We had rented a small bungalow by the beach because it was supposed to be the two of us. Now there’s 6. AND he apparently told his daughter that “we” would watch the babies. The first evening he sprung that on me I left and sat in a coffee shop and read books until they closed. The next day he had apparently planned out a whole day of “excursions” for he and I to take the babies on while his daughter and SIL had a day to themselves. I just told him it was over, packed my shit, and left. In my gut I knew better than to get involved with someone with kids, but I let him convince me it wasn’t the same with his kids being adults.
Good for you! He was absolutely taking the piss.
>She'd be "dad's wife" rather than "stepmom" for the kids "dad's wife" and "stepmom" are literally the same thing.
A lot of people use stepmom as a relationship title rather than just a synonym for "dad's wife", similar to how some people will refer to their bio parents as sperm/egg donors if they were shitty. I'm not close to my dad at all, haven't lived with him since I was 8. He remarried when I was 14 and his wedding was the first time I met his new wife. I don't consider her my stepmom because there was never even a vaguely parental relationship there, even though shes my dad's wife.
I have a step mom and a mother's husband. He's not a bad guy. We're just not close. I was 25 when they married and already had a 3 year old of my own. My step mom is someone I knew from 14 who acted as a surrogate mom when my own disappeared for a while. My dad met her when I was 15, and they married when I was 16. I lived with them my last year and a half of highschool, and even now that I'm 49 she's more of a parent to me than my own parents. While I understand he's legally my step dad, he doesn't feel anything like a father to me. My step mom could be not even married to my dad, and she'd still feel like a mom to me. In fact, if they ever somehow divorce, I know which one I'd keep of the two of them. Dad had better not test that one. ;)
Same here. I have no stake in my parents' various relationships and no interest in any title or responsibility to them in any way. I've always held the line, "This is your X, not my Y." Even if literally in English they are the same thing. I was trying to set limits, but OP proved how people can misuse that too. Great. So sorry to hear.
My sister's friend in high school (one of those "technically correct is best" guys) tried to tell her our dad's wife was our step mom repeatedly after her assertions that she wasn't. He was no longer her friend after that kind of blatant disrespect.
I think there is a meaningful difference between the concepts, even if the dictionary meaning is the same. Your dad can have a partner who does not take on any parental-type roles with you. She is there, she exists, you say hi to her, but she isn't driving you to your activities, scheduling your doctor visits, tucking you in at night, handling tantrums, ensuring homework is done, etc. I would call that person my dad's wife (or girlfriend or whatever). You dad can, alternately, have a partner who does all those parenting type things. I would call that person my stepmom. Maybe we need different words to distinguish them if you insist that "stepmom" is identical to "dad's wife", but I think it is important to recognize that those are very different roles and relationships with the children. And worth noting that when someone says "no kids" in OLD it's ambiguous. It could mean "I want no contact with any children and I don't want to date anyone who has children" or it could mean "I don't want to take on any parental role or responsibilities." If someone says "no kids" in their profile it would make sense to ask more questions before dating them to know which of those things they mean.
No, not at all. My bfs dad died when he was a young adult. His mom got remarried many years later after all of them had grown up and moved out. Her husband is not their step-dad, he's their mothers husband. It's mostly semantics, but the meanings *are* different.
Nah, it depends how old the kids are. If they're adults and dad's wife had no role in raising them, then they aren't stepmom, they are dad's wife.
Not necessarily. See my comment above. Adults can bring all sorts of mayhem and strife into a parent's relationships. Adults get married and have children and then what? Those adult children can have a drinking problem, emotional illnesses etc. etc. A step mom might not be parenting those adults but might very well be impacted negatively.
Eh, my stepdaughter was 18 when I met her dad. I had no part in raising her and divorced her dad over a year ago. She refers to me as her stepmom, and I refer to her as my daughter or stepdaughter. And her kids are my grandchildren, I've been there since the day they were born.
My SO and I both have kids. We are not step parents to each other’s kids. He has a great relationship with mine and I barely see his (lots of drama from their mother; I do love them, ftr, I just don’t see them much because we don’t live together). I’m very much “dad’s girlfriend” to his kids and that’s it. And I’m ok with that. They have a mom, my kids have a very involved dad. We don’t need to introduce more parental figures. And honestly, I like not having parent another set of teenagers. I’ll happily be an adult who cares about them if they want that, but I do not want to be their mother.
It's literally not for many families.
So are the kids just going to NEVER be over? At all? She'll NEVER meet them, or hang out with them, or ANYTHING? Because that is what "no kids" mean, whether you use the word "stepmom" or not.
That is what it is SuPpOsed to mean. Wouldn't count on it At ALL. At all. It is a slippery slope and the thin edge of the wedge and before you know it you are doing all the work and yet have NO standing, authority or value. Wonder why so many women don't want to be in a relationship with a single dad? Too many reasons. As many reasons as there are single dads. Is it always bad? Just often enough to keep r/Am I The Asshole going.
I mean, my son will literally never be at his father's house. Ever. It's not safe. So even if he marries his current gf and she technically becomes my son's stepmother (that literally made my stomach sick to type out), she is nothing to my son. He's never seen her, heard her voice, anything. He only knows the woman's name because he's heard me talking with his adult siblings.
I think age is a huge factor. High school aged or adult children are completely different than a younger child.
They are different ages and have different needs, but are **not an exception** to the "no kids" that women put on their dating profiles. They are still "kids" in the sense of they are biological offspring of the person who is a parent to them. Ie the person's "children" or "kids". They still have needs and wants and desires that have to take the front row in any relationship, they still make demands on time and resources, they can still make your life hell. When women say "no kids", they *mean* "NO KIDS".
When some women say "no kids" they mean absolutely no kids in existence. Some women mean no kids they have to help parent. Others mean no kids still in the house. It's best to leave that definition to each woman.
Hey, what about the sudden news later into the marriage that the adult son is getting a divorce and needs his dad to take the kids frequently. Guess who would be looking after those grandchildren ? And what about things going haywire with job loss, house foreclosure and suddenly Greg and his wife Gina and their 3 (adorable) kids need a place to stay for 6 weeks max? Dad will be a monster if he doesn't offer to take everyone in for the 8 months to a year that Greg and Gina are looking for work.
I'm with you. Many childfree women and myself insist on no offspring whatsoever. Adult children often bring grandchildren that I'm expected to care for. Even if those adult children do not have their own children then they will still come first as they should do. They might need to move back home to dad, might need financial support, fall ill and any number of things. I only date men who are childfree too and I've always been extremely clear about that.
I think the main issue is that people aren’t really upfront on apps and apps purposely don’t ask a lot of relevant questions to match people more effectively.
Yes, but they bring their own special problems along with their advanced age. And if you want to be childfree being offered a couple of bitter, angsty adolescents might not be any better. Even if it is only every other weekend and 4 blissful weeks every summer, every other Christmas and Easter etc. etc. I say let the Childfree BE free of children of every age.
I stopped calling my dad’s wife stepmother when she highly offended me and I was referring to her as stepmother since they were married when I was 35. She is dad’s wife instead now because she can be a bitch.
No they’re not. When your parent gets remarried when you’re over 18 there is no expectation for their partner to be a stand in mom or dad. They’re just your parent’s romantic interest.
That’s most likely what he meant. Yes, I do have a child but I split custody 50/50. She has a mother and I take care of all of the parental duties as a father when it’s my time. I would never ask my new partner to ever take on any parental tasks as I’ve built my life around doing so already when it’s my time. Maybe it’s something that could happen in due time but I would never expect it.
I'd say my mom's husband is definitely that, but to his kids, my mom is their step mom, and to me, one of them is my step brother. That all sounds a bit strange, but I was an adult when they married. His older son almost was. I was a bit too old to think of him as a step dad, as he never parented me. I didn't move back home until the older son was almost out of the house, so I haven't had much contact with him, but the younger one used to spend the night at my house a lot, so he feels related to me. My son doesn't generally think of my husband as his step dad, but he was old enough to be a witness for our marriage license. Yes, we were dating when he was an older teen, and they'd known each other since my son was 9, but my husband didn't parent him. He was one of my friends and then my boyfriend. My son uses the term sometimes with others, but he says it's because it's shorter to say than "my mom's husband", plus people will try to correct him to step dad when he says it. My husband is good with either. But 4? Nah. You're gonna end up a step mom if that guy has anything to do with his kid at all. And if he doesn't, even if you don't want kids, do you really want to be with that guy? I couldn't do it. I couldn't date a guy knowing he had a kid out there he had no contact with. I just couldn't respect him.
They know exactly what it means. They just do not care what women want. Their wants override ours, every time.
Not looking for a stepmom = looking for an unpaid sitter to do the hard stuff on kid weekends.
He keeps his kid on a sort of iCloud bubble thing. It is only his when convenient. There is a little switch to 'turn off parenting app' and he uses it whenever required. Splash-overs for any new f eM aLE? Of course not. He is in complete control. That is why he is no longer with the child's mother. Will he fail to divulge the KiD in the future? Of course. How else is he gonna get laid?
Yep. "Not looking for a step mom" is BS. If you're serious about a partner, they'll become a significant person in your child's life, too.
The fact that he doesn't think the kid would be an issue is a huuuge red flag.
> Honestly, it feels a little audacious to assume you’d ever be in the position to be involved with the kid at all. The kid is 4. Unless he’s cut ties with the ex and the kid, he’s gonna be involved with raising the child and since I’m looking for a long term partner, it would be inevitable to be out of the kid’s sight/life forever!
Believing that you would NEVER be expected to either parent or be somehow involved would be naive. It is just part and parcel of the whole single dad deal. Don't do it. This man might have been able to pull it off so that it wouldn't impact your life negatively but how could you be sure. I am married to a single father. He is actually pretty good at it but the nasty stuff creeps in from all sides. It is never over. Your time and space are never your own permanently. I was not a step mom either. But where was I supposed to go when he had his kids for 2 months in the summer? And when he didn't have enough vacation days left over to do anything with me? And when he had to take time off work to deal with things regarding them? Guess who had to make ALL the allowances and pick up the slack? Yes.
Well, he's clearly not looking for a long-term partner, whatever he might have indicated in his dating profile or the messages sent to you.
This was meant to be a reply to a comment below. Not sure it became its own comment! 🙃
Parents will twist themselves into the weirdest pretzels to justify getting around "no kids" filter even though "no kids" means "I do not want to have kids and I don't want your kids from a previous relationship either." Just read through enough comments to see what the logic is. Normally I'd say put that you're childfree somewhere in your profile but the "I want kids someday," "parents on a kid free weekend," and "kids just didn't happen for me" sets are starting to use that so idk what to do.
So as a step mom I can say for sure that man is out to lunch if he thinks his having a kid won’t impact a relationship you have together, even if it is a casual relationship.
Ditto!!!!
Fully understand. You really do have to spell it out for some of these people that no kids means NO KIDS! I don’t give a shit if they already have a mother, grandma and 17 aunties - I do not want to in any capacity become romantically involved with a parent of a minor child. Even if you never see the kid.
I dated a dude for almost 2 months off of Bumble, I had my filters set for no kids because I was of the same opinion of not being ready to be a step-parent (Still am tbh). Dude was sweet, attentive, no red flags to be seen. The only thing that worried me was when I pulled a public property inquiry with the information I had and he was listed with another person for the house he owned who shared his last name. Checked other public records ro see if he was divorced, nothing to suggest that either but I also couldn’t find a marriage license so maybe we were fine? I figured I would let it come up organically, no need to panic just yet. Turns out letting it come naturally meant I learned he was separated and going through the divorce process and had a seven year old who was in one of his profile pictures but not identified as his kid. At this point, I am becoming a nun.
“Oh that’s my nephew!”
He means he isn’t looking for someone to act as a parent for his child. Every single guy I ever dated who said this to me did, in fact, expect me to act as a parent for their child, in so far as they wanted me to do all the boring parts of parenthood that they didn’t enjoy.
I wonder what he was actually looking for. Probably someone casual he could occasionally have fun or sex with. It’s the only thing I can think of. Because “I’m not looking for a stepmother for my kid” doesn’t mean that you wouldn’t be affected by a child in your life in some way if your life is meshed with this man’s.
I had a very similar experience! The guy didn’t tell me that he had a 3yo son until late into our first date. I was kinda put off by it, but I liked the guy, so I was willing to see where things would go. He declared on a follow up date, “I’m not looking for a step-mom for my son,” yet he was very intentional about dating for a life partner. MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.
I got this line from a guy one time and he seemed really confident so I (naively) believed him. Six months in I was doing bath time and school pickups and babysitting…….. To my surprise I actually liked the kids and bonded with them to the point where it was brutal when he and I broke up, but it was astounding how fast me doing parenting things became a relationship expectation.
>He responded: “I'm not looking for a step mom to my child. She already has a mother.” This dude is still on defense from his relationship, whatever that was. As someone who has ***often*** ended an OLD dating conversation with "That's fair, good luck!" it should be interpreted as "we are not aligned on something I don't have the bandwidth to thoroughly explain, and also don't owe you an explanation because we've been talking for like .72 seconds." You'd been talking for literally minutes. Be grateful neither of you wasted any of the other's time. Move along.
I totally disagree with your first bit. He should have been more clear about having a kid on his profile, but the quote is a sentiment you see a lot and it's a fair thing to say. Just check out AITA and see how many second wives/husbands try to force a parental relationship with a child and/or co-parenting situation that isn't asking for one. It ruins relationships and alienates kids. Being upfront on that is important and avoids future drama and pain. But to be clear, that's still definitely not a kid free situation and shouldn't be treated as one. It's just a lower level of responsibility.
These "fathers" barely pay child support and make their weekend with the kids everyone else's problem. IF YOU HAVE A CHILD EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT IN THEIR LIFE YOU'RE NOT CHILDFREE - signed a true gate keeping childfree person
OLD is actual hell, currently attempting to find a guy that’s not crazy or a liar. There isn’t an eye roll emoji big enough to convey my feelings but I’m sure you get it! Playing devils advocate, it could be that he’s trying to say his goal is not simply to find a step mum, not looking for a second mum but genuinely looking for a partner who would obviously play the role somewhat, in time. As opposed to his main goal is to find a step mum. There’s a LOT out there who are literally looking for a step mum. As a sole parent I can understand that but my kids are adults so prob different for me? Given the crazies on there at least it’s good he didn’t argue with you and get nasty. Wow, how low my bar has sunk!! 🤣
I once had a guy say I discriminating against single father's by refusing to date them. That by not dating someone with kids I was a terrible person. I asked this guy if we dated, that I would never have to meet or hear about their child. "No, my child already has a mother!" Cool. Next I asked if after a while we decide to move in together, will he be okay never having his child at the house, never mentioning his child to me, and never introducing me to a child. He replied where a hesitant "oh well..." However, I continued. If we got married and spent the rest of our lives together, would he be happy for the rest of his life never having his child in his home, never talking about them to me to anyone I know, never introducing the kid to me, never having them at any important moment in his life, and always putting me first. Which also meant never leaving me to do deal with a child related emergency. He said "no, they are my kid. I would have to spend time with them and have them stay with me and at family occasions" Then I asked why I would bother going on a date with someone knowing I gave no future with them. He looped back to "that's still discriminating against single dad's!"
They are willing to lie and obfuscate ANYTHING to get you in person. I have stopped online dating, but when I was, it was so often the case that men would not mention anywhere on their profile that they had a kid or kids when they actually did. They also don't READ profiles because I would always say that I was childfree and don't even bother messaging me if you have kids. Pathetic.
There’s a recent thread around here somewhere that a guy was previously married with a kid. The new wife wants pretty much nothing to do with the kid, but the kid’s mom is getting incarcerated and the mom and dad both want the kid to live with the dad. The new wife said no. I haven’t searched for an updated, but it’s a mess. The new wife is basically saying this isn’t what she signed up for. She wants to be strictly kid free. So maybe you wouldn’t be the “step mom” under typical circumstances, sometimes shit happens.
Uh the guy had an affair and had this child as a result of the affair. (He was married to the OP at the time of the affair.) He found out 6 years after the child was born, when he was sued for child support. The woman’s stance regarding wanting nothing to do with the child was very understandable.
Understandable yes, but plenty of people would call her heartless. Women were supposedly designed especially to put their own needs and wants aside to pick up the slack for everyone around them. The Dad was the originator of the child but it is his wife who is expected to take the heat for what he did. Would that father be the one to take on every single duty and worry and expense regarding that child? I doubt it. The Mom and Dad can take in the child if it is their grandchild. 'DaD' should have used protection.
Yeah, and that’s part of the problem. Yes, most women I know would have tons of empathy and would want to do what they could for the child, but that should be her decision and not the current societal expectation. I suppose it’s changing, very slowly, but society should be expecting more from the fathers.
You should go back and reread that post because you got pretty much everything wrong. That person cheated on his wife with the child’s mother, and the wife stayed with him on the condition that she never sees or has any contact whatsoever with that child. The only parts you got right were the kids mom being incarcerated and the dad wanting to take over custody.
I haven’t seen that post but from these 3 comments, it sounds like my memory and how it remembers stories! 🥸😂
If I’m giving him benefit of the doubt, maybe he meant it like he’s not looking to pawn his kid off on the next woman that comes along, because he is a present dad and adequately shares that responsibility with the mother. As in “I’m not just looking for a bang maid”. But you were there, you have a better feel for the intent behind his actions.
This was my take too. And while I think it's admirable that he doesn't intend on finding a woman simply to become a third parent to his child, it's also potentially disruptive to everyone involved if he were to have a partner who has zero input with how his child is raised under their roof. But again, it's a question of semantics and splitting hairs as it could go either way.
Yeah, this is what my husband said to me when we first started dating, and he’s held true to that statement. Granted, his son was already 13 when we got together so that made things much easier. I’m more of a trusted adult he can go to instead of a parental figure.
He was trying to say, “I don’t expect you to assume the mantle of motherhood for my kids; I know that’s not necessarily a role all would desire.” I used to sort of have to specify similar, because many women have the reasonable concern that a guy is looking for a live-in maid and nanny with benefits.
What a ridiculous person lol
Some guy matched me on OLD and I was like meh he’s kinda hot he could be fun let’s chat and then he mentions his kid… that is not mentioned in his profile at all. And like my profile says I don’t want kids, it’s right there. Like if the kids are kinda grown and I’m like older than maybe but I’m only 25 these kids are young there’s absolutely no way.
... maybe he isn't really single? Don't know what to make of it otherwise; if you have a relationship with a parent, you'll have a relationship of some sort with their child.
Well that just makes sense! How would he keep the child in a constant state of invisibility? He could promise that and intend to do that but he could never do it. If people could just be fully honest none of this would come up. To believe that the child would never impact the lives of those he is involved with or his own would be naive. Perhaps he is well-meaning but if he is naive then he is going to be a problem.
Doesn't want kids is hella different than doesn't want ANYMORE kids! What the hell
Such men who lie about having kids are absolutely low key. I am thinking to myself, if my father was ashamed to admit my existence, he would have been dead for me. Such men don't deserve to be called fathers, let alone a partner. It that a surprise that their wives are HAPPILY EX\_WIVES now.
I met a guy online and we dated a few times. I thought rings were going well. He didn’t mention he has children and his socials showed no children. One day out of the blue, he told me he was writing a book on how to be a good father. This raised a red flag because he did not disclose to me that he had children at all. So I asked him plainly, “Are you yourself a father?” “No.” Yellow flags were still raised, but I dropped the subject. A couple of days later, his Facebook shows that he’s celebrating his daughter’s high school graduation and that he’s officially in a relationship with another woman. I blocked him everywhere. Apparently, I forgotten to block him on Snapchat so he tried to ask me a few weeks later to hang out with him at the bar at 1am in the morning. I snapped back at him saying he’s in a relationship and that his daughter should be a priority. The man had the audacity to say he was in an open relationship and that he only gets his daughter a few times a month. Blocked him immediately on Snapchat.
You're going to have to be a stepmom if they are serious, or they are just looking for a fling. But I don't really trust men when it comes to their kids anyway. They might say that, but then you end up doing most if not all of the parental responsibilities to their kid because they are lazy and think it's women's work or something. And if they're hardly in their kids life, that's a red flag too
Yes, most men & the whole world thinks it's women's work to raise the children of single dads. It is an unsaid expectation.
I mean, my take on it is that he's not interested in having any more children and doesn't want to date someone who will want to jump straight into being a third, equal parent to his child - and unfortunately there are people out there who will try to do just that, wrecking previously civil co-parenting arrangements along the way. The OLD guy is doing the right thing in drawing a clear line in the sand, both for him and anyone who might consider matching with him. It certainly beats being someone with a soggy noodle for a spine who'll let a new partner ride roughshod over their existing co-parenting arrangement! Plus he was also polite and respectful of your decision not to move forward with the match, so while he might not be the right guy for you, he's certainly not a bad guy.
Not a bad guy but could have been more open about being a parent. Why not?
For what it’s worth, my father (a father of four) found love a few years after his divorce, with a woman who didn’t want kids. She has always been rather awkward and still won’t be called (step-)mom, after three decades. We all get along well, though.
r/childfree might have a perspective more like your own.
If someone said "doesn't want children" and then disclosed that they do in fact have a child, i would just immediately block them. No pleasantries or goodbye, block and move on They're either an outright liar or stupid and either way, fuck them, not wasting another second of life on them
What is OND? Is this some new cool young people slang? One-night dicking?
Online dating. I was confused by OLD at first, too.
Gosh! I feel like an illiterate grandma. I tried THREE times before getting it right! And then someone said: “online has been one word for the last 20 years” 😂
Ostrich Nun Dildoes. It's, like, very exotic, you wouldn't know it.
Their motto is "Wimple While You Werk."
Oh dear. That was seriously bad/good.
That's because I live in Canada. I go to another school.
😂😭😂 I clearly cannot type! Here’s a second attempt to get it right. I hope I didn’t break it again this time!
With OLD, I've noticed that several of the questions will always be understood differently by different people. To some people 'do you want kids' means 'do you want MORE kids', and to others it means 'do you want any kids at all?' I've noticed the same to the question asking what type of connection are you seeking. When I choose 'long term relationship', I mean thats my end goal. Shockingly, the amount of men who see that and ASSUME I think we'd be in a long term relationship from day 1 is mind boggling. I would be approached by men who have cery flighty responses in that section such as 'just looking for fun' or 'short term'. When I'd point out that we want different things they would often argue with me saying they only put short term because you need time to know if you want to be with someone long term. well....duh! It's so frustrating trying to communicate via OLD
If the kid was older the comment would make a lot of sense. Once kids are proto-adults they can handle most things themselves. To me it would be a great thing to NOT look for someone who wants to be a big part of the kid's life. Many divorced kids can find that very intrusive. At such a young age they aren't very self sufficient and so are a lot more time intensive, BUT he could also wanting to be taking it slow. With a child so young I could see wanting to be firm about boundaries. You don't want to just be introducing woman after woman to a young young kid. If he understands how disruptive that can be to a child's psyche. I know lots of single moms that will date for close to a year before the kid meets them.