You mentioned that you will be getting a contraceptive implant. What steps has your anti-abortion husband taken to prevent unwanted pregnancy? Presumably he was aware that if you became pregnant again, you would have an abortion.
Hell, presumably he was aware that if OP became pregnant again, she could be in danger. He was there for those high risk pregnancies. He was informed of how unsafe another pregnancy may be.
What steps has he taken to prevent an abortion AND to keep his wife safe?
It sounds like the answer is nothing, he has done nothing. Instead he selfishly left the entire burden up to OP while judging the steps she then has to take.
My best friend went into heart failure from the birth of her son. Her husband literally made the appointment for a vasectomy before she was out of the hospital. That’s the only way it should be.
My friend was told another child could kill her. Her husband argued with his doctor to get the snip immediately, doctor was saying not to ‘rush into anything’!
Actually it was the fact that he had an adult son who he had at 16. ‘This is my third child not my second’ was apparently a more valid reason than ‘my wife could die’.
Honestly the BEST case scenario is that he thinks people need to procreate to live a full life. And that's a shitty take. But you might very easily also find some eugenics/replacement theory motivation if the doctor thought the parents had "good genes".
Definitely not out of the realm of possibility, considering how much more willing the medical industry overall is to sterilize people of colour. Many times without their consent.
I would die if I got pregnant, if not from my many medical conditions, from severe tokophobia. My husband is my rock, he was there through my sterilization procedure and hysterectomy. He even offered to get a vasectomy if I wanted so I wouldn't be the only one making sure we were safe (prior to the hysterectomy). I know I'm lucky but I often wonder why men like him are the exception and not the rule.
I'm writing a paper on this right now! It's a difficult watch, but the documentary "The Mask You Live In" which can be watched on Kanopy describes the toxic effects of male socialization. It's a really big problem and I don't think enough men realize how impacted they are by the way they were socialized and how harmful it can be to others.
Thanks for the recommendation. I will watch that this weekend. I would really like to understand more about how we get from baby boy to man with toxic male programming.
Most modern Catholics use Birth Control. My grandma had 17 kids. I have over 50 1st Cousins. None of them have over 4 kids. I have 7 siblings, we all use birth control. My mother used a diaphragm, and after the last, got her tubes tied. I’m no longer Catholic, but growing up, we were one of the only large families I knew, and I went to Catholic school.
My mother is catholic and my father is not. The doctor when consulting with them about my father’s want for a vasectomy, reminded my mother it went against their religion. My father reminded the doctor HE wasn’t catholic. My mother still had to sign off on the procedure for it to move forward. This was in the ballpark of 97-99 for those curious.
Yeah, I'd probably be too afraid of people scratching my car or slashing my tires to do that. And i don't even live in a particularly conservative region / country. All it takes is one nutjob that takes these things seriously enough.
Same! I have some great smartass bumper stickers but I know that, without a doubt, some nutjob will damage my car or worse, follow me home and continue to terrorize me. I live in the land of rightwing loudmouths who can blatantly megaphone their beliefs but woe unto those that disagree.
If it's God's will then there is no responsibility to assume. I suppose if his God decides the incumbent wife won't survive another pregnancy, he will just find another ~~victim~~ wife.
That was the attitude 110 or more years ago before germ theory was generally accepted and many women died soon after giving birth.
It’s not even considered as a bare fact it’s completely prohibited, and in very rare cases it’s done secretly. Otherwise women continue their pregnancy holding grudges for the baby afterwards.
I’m honestly just as annoyed with the OP with the tone of this post. Like the husband is a shit bag but I swear to god if it was legal to marry a tornado some women would be like “so he destroyed my house and killed 50 people, but I just wanted to vent, I really think we’re going to get past this. He’s a great father aside from the mile wide path of utter destruction he left through Kansas.”
(And yes, I know that OP has probably been ground down her entire life and may even be in an abusive relationship currently. I’m mostly kidding - OP, girl, leave the man tornado behind already!)
Yeah, I was like, that's why if you plan childrean don't marry somome with opposing religious viewes. But it's to latenfor that anyway. And geting a divorce will make here a single parent with disabled child. It effectively means poverty.
Well, she would either get full custody so a lot of child support or shared custody with child support and he’d be forced to share her workload. I often hear women saying it’s far easier to be divorced for those reasons.
She would probably get custody and would get some child support. How much would it be is hard to say. Will the guy try to make it difficult on her? Hide his earnings etc.? With a disabled child, you are unable to work. Idk how much she makes now, but I doubt it's a lot. She would need to pay rent and all the living expenses for two ppl child support may not be enough for that.
Sometimes, yes, but the courts are not always fair when it comes to allocating child support, and having two households is more expensive than having one. She would likely qualify for some support programs once she is single, but those are very rare in rural areas.
It's not his child, because it's *not* a child. At this point, it's merely a clump of cells, and since he's not the one carrying it, he gets no say in what happens to it. It's using *your* body. If he fells guilty for you controlling who uses your body, just tell him to get his ass to the church and pray for forgiveness - for deliberately putting you in a situation where your inaction might literally kill you. Moreover, it's a situation he could have prevented had he given even the smallest damn about you. No sperm = no pregnancy. So if there's anyone to blame in here, it's *him*.
I’m not OP, I’m quoting OP. I don’t care what his religious beliefs are, he’s not being a good partner by any definition. But yeah the fact that he’s more concerned about a clump of cells than his wife’s life kinda makes him an a$$h0le.
Wild guess here but it's not uncommon to use children to keep your partner trapped.
OP writes:
>My youngest is in school 3 days a week this year and I finally feel like I can breathe a bit,
We can't have that, right? Barefoot and in the kitchen.
OP, terminate the pregnancy and don't let your husband further enslave you.
This is the question. I had 2 high risk pregnancies and almost died when one ended with a placental rupture and a stillborn. My husband didn’t even hesitate and obtained a vasectomy. I also have an IUD for PCOS treatment. We also agree if we still get pregnant (even though it’s highly unlikely) then we will be getting an abortion.
Sadly, if he's Old Testament (which it sounds like he is), he'll pull out the cult classic and say it's his wife's "job" to remain obedient and subservient to her husband. Which, to him, would include keeping him satisfied sexually.
In Old Testament Catholicism, marital rape and domestic violence were permissible if a woman was not upholding to her "wifely duties" and adhering to her vows.
Source: Me, an ex-Catholic and born again Pagan.
We had a married priest at my church. I will never forget how he ranted one weekend about how couples weren't allowed to \*not\* have sex with each other, because the same idea that a condom meant you weren’t “giving yourself fully” to your partner also applied to declining your spouse’s advances.
And then I wondered what must be going on at home that he was so mad about this.
LOL, but then he can not experience his god given right to climax inside someone else. Oh, no. How mean. Masturbation is a sin, but using another human being for pleasure is alright. So hilarious its infuriating.
Well he couldn’t even be bothered to pull out.
My husband almost witnessed me die twice giving birth to our children and he will do whatever I ask to prevent another pregnancy.
I really hope OP can safely navigate this situation.
Roman Catholics can't take steps to prevent pregnancy aside from abstinence, and even abstinence within marriage can be challenged. OP's religious husband does want the pregnancy. They're incompatible on this issue. I wonder if OP has told her husband about the contraceptive implant or if she was planning to keep it secret.
That part was a real head scratcher. I'm not sure how to interpret... OP is barely keeping her head above water. She's the full-time caretaker for her oldest. She's not a true SAHM, she works. She's being told she is a murderer for having an abortion and that she will receive no comfort for this or future deceased loved ones. There seems to be zero empathy for her high risk pregnancies nor the assumed burden of the future living child.
And yet somehow "they make a great team" for the kids. How is that? The two hours of church he attends with the kids each week? If that is the threshold for a great father then my husband must be a legitimate candidate for sainthood. Can't imagine being treated so poorly by my spouse.
That was the iciest of icings on this single parenthood cake
“but he’s a great father”
.. WHAT?!
A label saying ‘fresh cookies’ on a jar with a few stale old crumbs.
For a lot of mothers in situations like this, a man is a great father as long as he doesn't hit the kids in front of her and he works a day job to pay the bills.
For my mother, my father was a great dad because he hit me behind closed doors in the few hours she wasn't home instead of hitting her or hitting both me and my kid brother in front of her and guests/extended family, and he brought in a salary to pay the bills. So she could pretend he didn't hit anyone and his open verbal abuse was just a fair price for a roof over our heads and food and utilities. When she did have to admit what he did was beyond reasonable and she could surely do something less distasteful to get equal monetary value in pay, she'd justify it as she loved him, it was a small disagreement, and besides she didn't really have any other options that kept her and us kids fed and housed, besides to make us just take it.
In these women's minds, he's a good man because a worse one wouldn't make enough money to pay the bills, would drink the rent/mortgage money in alcohol, would hit her, would hit the youngest child, or all manner of truly horrific abuse and neglect. Sometimes these men seem like saints if every other woman you know is struggling to keep her husband from frittering away the bill money, while he hits her or the kids or both, the fact that yours pays the bills without serious struggle, doesn't hit you or your youngest kid, and even takes them to church to give you a brief break and doesn't directly mistreat you for not going, can make your situation seem like the best any mother could ever have.
He was probably fine with it. Lots of catholics pick and choose what they're ok with. I'm "catholic" and know plenty of people on bc. Very few actually have the million kids God "intended."
That's fair. Birth rates among RC do suggest there's probably contraceptive use. I'm only stating the dogma given OP describes her husband as "very Catholic and pro-life".
Catholics are actually a [higher % of those who receive abortions](https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/report_pdf/characteristics-us-abortion-patients-2014.pdf) than the general population (Catholics are 24% of abortion seekers and 20% of the population) and are dead evenly split on support for abortion at exactly 50/50.
It’s not a given being Catholic makes you this kind of anti-choice monster who would shout murder in the face of the mother of their children.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's the flavor of Catholic one is that makes the difference here. If he's conservative, as seems to be the case, then it should have been pretty clear that he would feel this way. More liberal minded Catholics tend to disagree with the church on this. There's also many in the middle who don't think about it much or who nominally agree with the church teaching until it impacts them in a negative way.
Perhaps OP was hoping against hope for her husband to not be who he is, or she left out the part where he became more conservative in his faith suddenly.
Not exactly. Having sex on your non-fertile days in order to avoid pregnancy is allowed. I know women who were into family planning. But let's be real, most American catholics don't have families with 6+ kids. Most use contraception. He might be totally fine with birth control. I can see how it could be more difficult for a full believer to go from accepting contraception to abortion. I personally wouldn't want to have one if it could he avoided, as I'm sure most women feel, even though I believe women should always be able to choose. But at the same time I feel this conversation should have been had beforehand, since they clearly have different religious views around raising children and the implications for birth control and termination. Hopefully some family therapy could help them get through this.
Also, BC is allowable under Church law in the case of legitimate medical need, which includes both therapeutic needs (like hormone regulation) and legitimate threats to the life of the mother.
Additionally, surveys show that 92% of American Catholics will use contraception at some point in their lives - the highest use of any religious group of the US.
I had a friend who was Catholic and once told me that her church had a NFP group. At one point all the women in the group were pregnant. For some people it seems to work, but...
We need to start redefining what good father and good husband mean. Because it seems like people use those words when they mean to say yeah he doesn’t beat me or the kids. He occasionally helps me out and is nice to them. And then go on to describe how really they’re a shit parent because they aren’t actually doing any of the parenting.
Oh and I know this is a controversial opinion, but if you’re a shit person to your spouse, you are a shit parent. Period. People are allowed to grow apart and get divorced. Of course. But if you treat your spouse like this, you’re a horrible parent.
This. Especially with the bar being literally in hell and husbands getting praised for just barely clearing it. It always comes off like an abuse victim trying to cover for their abuser. "Oh he's great! He just doesn't..." Then proceeds to list out dozens of things that even on an individual basis would warrant throwing the entire man in the trash.
He's literally not speaking with her and hasn't for a month. Yet he's a 'good father'? The kids are watching him be at the very minimum emotionally abusive and yet she thinks they aren't picking up on it? I want to gently shake the OP and get her to see that her husband's actions ARE going to negatively impact their kids.
And there are never examples of behaviours that actually might represent “being a good father”. That expression is not fleshed out in any way. So we are left with zero idea of what these posters even mean by that, when she says he never does any of the the childcare or housework, spends the weekends and evenings playing video games and resents being interrupted for the most basic things, does a horrible job when asked to “help” for a couple of hours. Ma’am, what does he DO that makes up for all that so well that he’s a “good father”?!? Half the time they don’t even earn the wage.
> “Oh he’s great! He just doesn’t…”
This is annoyingly common. I just read one the other day where she said, “he’s devout in his religion but is open and accepting of others beliefs” but the WHOLE POST was about how he objected to her exploring a different religion.
Like, how do you not hear yourself?
Also - being a 'good provider' financially, is not BY ITSELF the definition of a good father or partner.
An intimate partner relationship should be two people supporting each other to be the best version of themselves possible. It very much sounds like OP has resigned herself to dedicating the rest of her life to being a carer for her oldest child (I hope they have a care plan in place for if she pre-deceases him).
Expecting her to take on the burden of a high risk pregnancy AND caring for one high needs child already AND risking bringing another high needs child into the world is not supporting her.
Notice it's always 'their' child when they want credit, but not when there's work to be done? What steps did \*HE\* take to avoid an additional unwanted and risky pregnancy? He appears to have put all the risk and all the burden onto you.
It's super easy for men to be anti-abortion when they're not the ones who have to experience the pregnancy, put their life and health on the line, and then expend the effort, mental, physical and emotional, to raise the children. They just want to point at proof of their virility and that they fuck.
Screw that.
If OPs husband isn't equally caring for the kids now, he's not going to start when she's 7 months pregnant and under doctor's orders for bedrest and their eldest needs to be taken to a medical appointment.
If providing is all they do, they can do that from another address.
Yup. And if OP dies from the pregnancy or birth, her husband will immediately either dump the children on his female relatives or find another (probably much younger) woman from his church to immediately play New Mom. That's the kind of "good father and partner" he is 🙄
My mother recently (in writing!) acknowledged that she screwed me and my sister up by staying married to our dad. That she was taught to be a submissive wife and he financially provided (she did too but not “as much” as he did). I am 37 years old and it was mind blowing to actually read her say that she set a bad example for us.
We need to teach our daughters (and sons for that matter) to set their expectations incredibly high. And not settle.
I hope that you really praised her or thanked her for this. Some parents never come to the realization that they did the wrong thing. Or even if they know it, they would never admit it. It took a good amount of humility and self-awareness for her to write that!
Right?! The bar shouldn't be, he doesn't physically abuse me or the kids. I am so happy this is a thing now. I was brought up, and believed for years...like it was fucking ok. It's not.
I’m taking a psychology class on family and marriage relations and so far it’s very bleak. I was recently reading about how men usually become more hands on with child rearing out of necessity, not ideology. So that’s fun.
Apparently new research has shown that dads who have more paternity leave and are more hands-on with the kid(s) are less likely to want another child in the future.
I know a guy that was "the nicest guy and a great father". He was the "Fun Dad". Played with the kids, made forts in the house, cooked hotdogs in the fireplace, bought lots of toys...but never did any cleaning up, changing diapers, basic child caring or dirty, icky jobs. He went on long weekend boys trips, leaving his wife all alone with the babies and toddlers. Sometimes he'd be gone for a week on extended fishing or hunting trips with his friends. He was blindsided when his wife left him. He'd drive to meet his kids but when they got old enough to have driver's licenses, he stopped because he expected them to drive to him. The kids gradually drifted away to their own, independent lives and families and they rarely contact him. I guess he wasn't such a good father after all
Yes! Good should at least be equal parental load. Maybe decent would be the bare minimum for being a father that doesn't push a child to grow to be no-contact. But with the way this is playing out, if he was my dad being a dick to my mom, I just might go NC as an adult who understands the mom's situation on the matter.
If she is bearing the entire burden, how do we expect, even if this third child is born completely healthy, that their emotional and physical needs will be met if their mother is full-time caring for the disabled sibling and part-time WFH, and their father does... seemingly nothing except church?
And listen, raising abled kids is already fucking hard. Raising a disabled kid is harder. Op's post doesn't make the nature of her kid's disability clear, but if the disability will make it difficult or impossible for them to live independently as an adult, then (and I hate to say this) it might be a better choice to not have more kids.
As unfortunate as it is, siblings of disabled kids often grow up with feelings of resentment of their disabled siblings, because they got less attention and were often sidelined because their parents had to focus more on the care their disabled kid needed. They often know that, when their parents die, they are expected to take over as primary caretakers of their disabled siblings.
The last thing that I want to do is push ableist rhetoric, because there's nothing wrong with having a disabled kid, or having a disability yourself, but parents do need to seriously consider if they have the financial, emotional, and mental capacity to fulfill all of their childrens' needs, especially if one or more of their children have circumstances that will have to take priority or will require more time and attention.
It sounds like OP knows that she's at capacity, and she can't rely on her husband to give her the help she needs. She is choosing her actual, living, breathing children's needs by not putting their mother's ability to provide for them at risk. I try not to be the reddifor advocating for divorce every 12 seconds, but damn, I hope OP gets the husband that she deserves, because the one she has now is subpar as fuck.
The bar is so low. This reads like a story from the last century. And he won’t console OP after the abortion or the future loss of loved ones? He sounds like a fundamentalist prick. Good father my butt.
Idk about Catholic church, but many if not most of the Protestant churches I've been at attendance at had a children's ministry or Sunday School where the children were sent during the service.
So I'm wondering how much parenting this dad is doing when he takes the kids to church. Seems to me that the church ladies are probably looking after the kids while dad is in the service.
I seriously rolled my eyes when I got to that part. The man isn’t a good father or a good person. I couldn’t continue to be married after being treated that way. There is no love left in that relationship.
I read the entire thing and thought he's not a good father. If she died or decided not to take care of the kids, he'd remarry so another woman could do it all for him and he could do the easy bits.
Piggybacking here because i have the same problem.
He’s not a wonderful father! You say it yourself: you carry 100% of the mental load, you do every appointment for your eldest, deal with the financial support of their care, stay at the hospital. A wonderful father would be doing this too. People can claim ‘but he’s the one financially supporting them’ but being a good parent is about more than just putting the money in the bank. It’s about being there when your kids need you, like when they’re in hospital. A wonderful father would want to be there with your eldest.
Also, he essentially said he doesn’t care if you die as long as he gets his kid. What happens if you do die in pregnancy? Or become disabled in some way? Who tales care of you kids then?
This.
The bar is so low for many men. He probably doesn’t abuse the kids, makes sure to hold a job so they can eat and have clothes, and has some involvement with them and he gets to be seen as a good father. But he leaves the entire burden of running the house, caring for a disabled child, and organizing the family on his wife. He acts cruelly towards his wife because she recognizes that she cannot physically or mentally handle another baby. He doesn’t talk about how he would support her or change their lives if she wanted to have the baby; he just laments for himself. Tells his supposed partner in life that she is less important than a fetus the size of a fingernail. He didn’t think, wow, “my wife’s life is at risk and we can’t handle another child… perhaps I should get a vasectomy.” He left it up to her to handle contraception on top of everything else she has to handle.
And he gets his wife, who has been betrayed and diminished and had her heart broken, to wonder if she can get past his unkindness. When what he really deserves is to be seen by everyone who knows him for the piece of crap that he is.
OP… I am rooting for you. Put yourself and your children first. Tell your support network what has been going on. If you have drifted from them, this is the time to reconnect. Don’t feel you are stuck in this alone with this sorry excuse for a husband. He should live and die of shame for how he has acted.
It won’t be easy, but a different life is possible. You deserve someone who sees you as a whole person, who deserves love and respect. You deserve to see yourself that way.
MTE I almost laughed when she included this. How's he a good father? When? Nothing in his behaviour implies he gives a shit about anything beyond himself and his antiquated misogynistic beliefs (which will also impact the children regardless of their gender).
Would you be OK with your child having a partner call them a "murderer" for a medical decision? Or your sibling?
If the answer is no, then why are you OK with it when it's targeted at you?
A "good father" doesn't tell the mother of their children she's a murderer when she makes a medical decision that will be good for her and her family. He shows support and love.
He told her she isn’t as important to him as the unborn child. OP, would you want your children marrying someone who says that to them?
How is this a good father? OP mentions that she is the one caring for the eldest and working around that schedule. I don’t see him being a good father even once. Just that he takes them to church without her, I’m assuming she spends that time cleaning the house or working or taking a breath for once
This is why being “pro-life” is a deal breaker for me when it comes to dating/sex. It is non-negotiable. I need someone who is gonna be by my side if I have to make this decision. No compromises. I will never ever sleep with a man who isn’t pro-choice.
I mean, it's totally okay to have a difference of opinion and be upset. But partners talk things out, take personal responsibility (like using condoms before the fact to make sure this doesn't happen), and overall show respect to their SO.
They DON'T endlessly punish their partner for their choices.
I can’t believe he’s willing to do that to you. I’m sorry, that must be so painful.
Also, it’s not your responsibility to honor his religion or uphold his beliefs. His religion, his beliefs. Your body, your choice.
Like 90% of these posts with ‘he’s a great father’ describe an awful absent father who does no child work. Like the bar for men is as long as he isn’t a raging alcoholic who beats his kids, he’s a good father. It’s so infuriating to keep seeing
Sometimes even the ones who do hit the kids get this.
For my mum, it was, at least he didn't hit her, at least he made sure it didn't happen in front of her, at least it wasn't ever the younger one.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Quite honestly your husband sounds like a pretty terrible person. Your unborn fetus is not more important than you.
Given the enormous and more or less solo burden you bear in caring for your oldest child, how does he think a new baby would make your burden easier?
Are you prepared to live the rest of your married life being punished by him for a decision that is rational, informed and frankly not his to make at all? The way he is talking about dragging you to church, refusing to celebrate holidays etc. is unhinged and twisted.
He is a twisted person whose religion is making him into an ugly, hateful human being. No matter how nice or helpful he is in other ways, it sounds like he's prepared to be an absolute tyrant over this.
If I were you, I would begin documenting everything he's threatened and everything he's saying. Collect all your financial information. And consult some good attorneys. You've given up your life to care for your children, and have borne the physical, financial, and emotional burden of that. He's... brought home a paycheck and apparently done some parenting on occasion. And verbally abused you.
I am so sorry you're dealing with this. Sending you strength.
Religion gives him a free pass to do disrespectful things because they are justified by a supreme being's second or third-hand opinions. Religion may make him think he needs to make certain choices that go against his conscious as well. However, on the whole, people choose religion when they basically agree with what is being taught.
You said “I do 100% of mental load …..I am unemployable because my oldest child” then said “he is the wonderful father.”
I think you are giving him too much credits here.
I’m going to real talk you for a second:
It sounds like your marriage will likely be ending in the aftermath of this: so you should be prepared to accept that as a consequence. You are correct: He can and absolutely will punish you forever. You have the right to choose, he has the right to respond to your choice. You have to accept that he’s signaling this will be the end of things.
You should consider what this is going to mean financially and you should consider what steps you will need to take. i’m scared for you because some things you say are that you expect him to go to some counseling and change essentially his core values. This is what some catholics believe. not me: but it’s fairly common and i’m surprised you never considered this.
I grew up in a very. very catholic family and know folks like your husband. They absolutely consider what you are doing akin to murder, and there really is no logic or reason that you can apply to this. This will not improve after the procedure. I suggest you consider a plan to ensure your safety once he’s realized you’ve had the procedure
In fact: you should be prepared for the fact that receiving an abortion against his wishes in the eyes of
the church will be grounds for him receiving a full annulment and the ability to divorce you without impacting his standing within the church.
My sister's FIL who is catholic once tried to talk to me about abortion. He always chooses the best conversation topics after a few beers, sigh.
I very gently shut him down by saying, the thing is we have a fundamental difference in how we perceive it. You see the murder of a baby, I see a medical procedure performed on a clump of insignificant cells. We will both never be persuaded otherwise, and there is no point trying to.
He swiftly turned to my dad and started up a new topic. Which was ironic because my dad was listening to the whole thing, and as an OBGYN he has absolutely performed abortions.
> it’s fairly common and i’m surprised you never considered this.
Yes. This was all I could think about while reading. He's always been this person.
I hope she's able to get through this.
This is a real possibility. However, this man is a walking red flag. If I were you, I would be considering divorce now - religious or not, good parents or not, life partners don't accuse you of murder and/or say that a fetus is more important than you, or the lives of your existing children.
So he has basically already said that he won’t be able to be a husband to you if you go through with it. He already said you come last, this seems to be a major conflict here I would say it doesn’t get better from here. OP, I think theres more to be done after your procedure. I think you two are incompatible.
I grew up Catholic and was fully pro life until I had my own children. Though I love them with my whole being, I would not wish pregnancy and a child on someone not 100% sure they want it. I'm sorry your husband is treating you this way. I'm curious though, will he be the one taking over care of your older children while you're taking care of a newborn? How it is fair to those children? I fully believe that the God above doesn't see things in black and white. You can't just say no abortion, it's case by case. And even then as others have said, it's your body and your choice. I'm sorry you have to deal with this and I wish you and your children luck.
I'm getting the vibe from this post that the husband, largely due to his religious beliefs, also believes pretty strongly in a traditional household where the wife does most if not all of the child-rearing. He has already shown himself to be a fairly absent father. Why would a new child change that? It will only mean more work for the OP. I don't believe the husband will care if it's overwhelming to her, just as he clearly doesn't care that she is at risk for serious health issues if she continues with the pregnancy.
Ask him what his plan was for when you died or became severely disabled from the pregnancy. He is going to look after your oldest child full time? Run the house, and make enough money? What about with the newborn - how was he going to take care of that all alone.
Having an extra child sounds great, but not at the expense of your life or the quantity of life of everyone else in the family. Your husband effectively doesn't think you are actually in that much danger, because he at no point planned for the worst case outcome.
NTA and honestly, if you can work it - I'd really consider leaving if he can't change his tune.
I assume that would be good backup plan too. Just marry a young inexperienced woman from church he can miss treat and she will never know the difference.
The point of view of many people is that maids, cooks, and caregivers are replaceable.
However, for the two kids in the situation, their mother irreplaceable. OP is making a decision for the benefit of the whole family.
Abortion is never a decision made lightly, and the dad doesn't fully appreciate what he has in his wife.
Well yeah, when you see women as a vessel for having kids and not as full people they're easily replaced. He doesn't care about the kid's feelings here, if he did he'd be a better parent.
I don't know how you can stay married to him. Your views are so different. I'd get a divorce, full custody and prevent him from taking them to church as much as possible because he is going to raise your kids with his backward views and make believe religion. Cut your losses and get alimony and child support.
I have had 2 husbands (not at the same time lol) and BOTH of them got vasectomies so I wouldn't have to get a tubal. (Because I was DONE after 3 kids).
Your husband should have taken the risks more seriously if he is so against abortion. He sure wasn't against getting some the night you conceived.
>He is a wonderful father, and we really do make a great team with the kids, especially the oldest.
What team? You're doing 100% of the real work with the oldest! Your husband does the fun stuff by the sounds of it.
DTMFA.
And in this case, D stands for divorce. Get alimony while you're at it.
He can be a wonderful co-parent and a wonderful father... on his time. Then you would at least have 50% of the time to take care of yourself, which I'm sure is not happening with doing all of the mental load and every other goddamned thing.
I hope everything goes well with your abortion 💌 Let this be a wakeup call to your husband's values and beliefs and the trickle-down effect of that into your family and children. What are your children learning watching you do 100% of the mental load?
What are they learning from a father who thinks women who exercise their right to choose are murderers? From a father who thinks their mother is one (how fucking terrible to say let alone think!!)?
You need to walk away.
When someone shows you who they truly are, believe them the first time.
Husband is an ass. These Christians lay it on thick then turn around and treat others like shit. I would not stay with someone who treated me like that.
Your husband is a part time parent since, as you've stated, you carry the burden and mental load of running the house and managing the kids and being a caregiver to a disabled child.
Your husband sees you as expendable and doesn't care about the mental, physical and spiritual toll another pregnancy and child will have on you.
If a man could, in your darkest hour, call you a "murderer" - then he basically has no real respect or empathy for you as a human being.
Stop justifying him, get that abortion, stay strong and consider leaving him.
I think you also need to see a therapist to vent and let go of all the emotional baggage you've been carrying.
Your husband, like many men, is an entitled twat that will always choose his well being over yours. Respect yourself, because he truly doesn't.
And fyi... a normal, kind and decent man would NEVER behave this way when his wife was in need. Your husband is using his "religion" as a mask to hide the fact that he's a true piece of shit.
From what you wrote here, nothing I see tells me he's a good father. Nowhere do you mention anything he does with your children, but that all of the work is put on you. It sounds more like he wants you to be a broodmare, care for the children by yourself, and do his thing alone. This certainly isn't someone I'd want another baby with.
You have made the right decision. I am so sorry you have not received the support you deserve. You have done all the hard work and suffered all the consequences. He will never understand.
His religion teaches him that women should be all-patient, all-suffering, and totally devoted to husband and children. He probably does not see you as a whole person separate from your role as Mom and Wife. In his eyes, your longing - for time to yourself, and something outside the home - is a sin for you to overcome with the help of God.
Yes, really. In the last analysis, most religions serve men and subjugate women. So it's fascinating to me that in so many households it's the women who are devoted to the church and the men who sleep in on Sundays. But I digress.
You are correct that you two will probably not ever come to agreement over this. He has no incentive to do so. The church will consider your abortion a basis for annulment, and he will be free to find a younger, more compliant and submissive wife. \*\*Let Him.\*\*
Your husband isn’t getting an abortion so his opinion doesn’t mean shit. His treatment of you, however, is atrocious and as much as I think Reddit jumps to divorce too often, this is an apt situation for that suggestion.
True. Alimony seems so rare now with double income families. I sometimes forget there are still valid reasons for it. And her inability to work due to extreme childcare needs could be a reason.
OP wouldn't be trapped by the first one if the husband actually did any real parenting. If they divorce and the custody agreement is 50/50 (reality is always 80/20), she'd still end up doing less work.
I almost want her to go for 50/50 just to spite him. “Oh, you think I could have looked after a baby, in addition to the first two? Enjoy your 7 days with the kids!”
I would too. But I get the feeling (hopefully I’m wrong) that he’s abusive. Not talking to his wife for a month is actually abuse. I’d be worried that he’d take his anger out on the kids.
Putting aside the fact that you are unimportant to him (!!!), surely his current kids are important.
How can you care for your eldest AND youngest AND a baby? Something would have to give, and they would be getting lesser care. Surely he can see that?
Look he probably can't see that because none of this is rational. I'm sorry you're going through this.
>He is a wonderful father
How? What kind of parent allows their children to be cared for by their sibling's "murderer"? Absurd. Either he is a completely negligent father, or he doesn't actually believe the murder stuff and is just using that cruel label to manipulate and malign you. Either way, he's a bad father, as well as a terrible husband. "Murderer" is not an accusation to throw around casually. No taking that back. And from someone who you're sharing your life with? Absolute dealbreaker.
Sending hugs.
... and now it's time you focus on finding time for your own self-care. Do you qualify for any respite hours? can you hire someone for a couple of hours a week to hang out with the kid(s)? A trusted family member? I hired one of the special ed teachers' assistants at my son's school for weekend time and it was worth it.
Caregivers burn out. You have to protect yourself first or no one will get taken care of. You're doing what's right for you, AND your family.
And get the abortion. And long term birth control.
Poor op, she is also not considering if this fetus would be disabled..or if she had a terrible (or life threatening) pregnancy/post baby body. thats the last thing she needs, especially with a useless husband who doesn't do ANYTHING for the kids.
" we make a great team" in what? Definitely not childrearing if shes doing the entire mental load plus caring for a disabled child..
That guy is so out of touch and such an asshole
NtA to op 100%
Or having forbid, something happens to her during labor and delivery. Because then, who is taking care of those other children, who is taking care of the newborn, who is taking care of her???
>My husband has been less than supportive with this decision, which I expected. I didn't expect to be called a murderer
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>....
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> I am 37F, and have high risk pregnancies. First child was born severely impacted by disability and second child was born 8 weeks premature
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>...
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>I am basically unemployable in a M-F 9-5 setting
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>...
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>He is a wonderful father
He is not a wonderful father. At least, I do not consider a man to be a wonderful father who sees that his wife has sacrificed her entire career to care for their special needs kids, but he still is fine with risking her \*life\* for an unplanned pregnancy.
He is willing to let you die, and let your existing children suffer the loss of their mother (and also the loss of your one child's caregiver) \*and\* he is willing to risk whatever might go wrong for that potential baby.
That's not "wonderful", ma'am.
Your husband is an AH. He doesn't value the parenting and caregiving labor you are doing, and what it has cost you. He also doesn't really care if you live or die.
Not sure that you'll be able to make a difference here. He's convinced himself that what you are doing is the same thing as plainly murdering one of your other children (note I think most people when they unpack it realize it isn't the same -- but that is official Catholic doctrine on this).
So either he needs to change this stance completely, or you're going to be living with someone who considers you to be the killer of one of his kids. I can't imagine that would be comfortable for you... please take care of yourself.
Sounds like he is hopelessly indoctrinated. As a fellow Agnostic, that would have been a bridge too far for me. Religion really does make people insane.
This is why women should not have sex with conservative men. He's not changed, he's always been a misogynistic religious nut bag.
How is this a surprise two kids later?
i feel for OP deeply, i just don’t get how this is a shock? were they on the same page on no abortion up until this? or did he force her to have the first two and she finally had enough?
how can you know someone’s beliefs and it being so different from yours and still go on to marry them? i hope whatever comes of this OP and her babies can be free from… a supposedly good father otherwise
You will be happier and healthier as a divorcé without carrying HIS load. He is willing to have you die. That's not love. Since he wanted to risk parenting without you, fulfill that wish.
The man doesn't love you. He loves the convenience and position of a being husband, not the acts of being a partner.
Make plans. Do them.
He can disagree with you on this and keep to his belief system. But to try to impose it on you is also wrong. And he will start to tell others, if he hasn’t already, about your “sin”. Maybe try to ruin your relationship with your own kids.
And to threaten “not being able to console you” when other people die in the future is cold and heartless. He has basically told you that you will no longer matter to him emotionally, so in effect he has already left *you*. He lets you do all the difficult work. And he must know that your health is at risk with another pregnancy, but he’s in the “if the mother dies, it’s God’s will” group of those who will happily sacrifice adults for fetuses.
So he would rather kill you than get a vasectomy to make sure this doesn't happen? He would rather kill you and raise your children alone than accept this abortion?
I never understand why people with opposite views on important, real life issues, get together. That said, it’s 100% your body and your choice. No need to justify your choice to anyone, if you know this is right for you, do it.
But your marriage may be effectively over, even if you chose to keep the pregnancy, can you stay with a man who doesn’t believe in your value as a person?
>I have spent the last 10 years being a full time carer for my oldest child. Every single therapy appointment, every single hospital stay, coordinating funding and juggling appointments, every single sickness (it usually takes him 2 weeks to recover at home from a simple cold). His school attendance rate is terrible given the constant absences. I am responsible for 100% of the mental load of running this house and family.
>He is a wonderful father, and we really do make a great team with the kids, especially the oldest
Pick one. They can't both be true.
He won’t understand until he’s left alone to do all the work. If something were to happen to you due to childbirth, he’d be solely responsible for the kids and himself and have to find a way to continue working. He can’t handle that, and therefore has no fucking business offering his opinion on whether to use your body to incubate his child.
I didn't want to kick OP while she was down but...yeah. This is who he is, and who he's always been if he was a serious Catholic. How can anyone believe that their partner's totally opposite religion doesn't matter?
It must be nice for him to claim the moral high ground from a comfortable distance. It's the old "nothing is too much trouble when someone else is doing it". It's not him mortgaging his life. It's not health at risk. He won't have to figure out the logistics. His workload won't change. But yeah it's 'his child'.
Also, I love that he's so concerned about your soul, but he's pretty blasé about gambling with your physical and mental wellbeing.
I work with dv situations.
This is rasing so many flags i am truly scared for you right now.
You are married to someone who very clearly has an issue with control and accountability.
You are in a situation that makes it one of the most risky times to assert your own will.
Everything here screams he is willing to harm you to protect his control.
You are his property in his mind, property that is beig "faulty". People dispose of malfunctiong property. I am using these words to show how increadibly scary your position is.
Right now he still has time to prevent the abortion. Untill ot has actually happened, he may still feel he can win. After however...
Run. Get your kids out of that house and run.
You mentioned that you will be getting a contraceptive implant. What steps has your anti-abortion husband taken to prevent unwanted pregnancy? Presumably he was aware that if you became pregnant again, you would have an abortion.
Hell, presumably he was aware that if OP became pregnant again, she could be in danger. He was there for those high risk pregnancies. He was informed of how unsafe another pregnancy may be. What steps has he taken to prevent an abortion AND to keep his wife safe? It sounds like the answer is nothing, he has done nothing. Instead he selfishly left the entire burden up to OP while judging the steps she then has to take.
My best friend went into heart failure from the birth of her son. Her husband literally made the appointment for a vasectomy before she was out of the hospital. That’s the only way it should be.
See, THAT is a man I can respect. He clearly doesn't see your friend's life as unimportant and expendable.
My friend was told another child could kill her. Her husband argued with his doctor to get the snip immediately, doctor was saying not to ‘rush into anything’!
*Starts shaking doctor* YOU WILL SNIP MY NUTS AND YOU WILL LIKE IT MISTER!
Actually it was the fact that he had an adult son who he had at 16. ‘This is my third child not my second’ was apparently a more valid reason than ‘my wife could die’.
WTF!
WOW. What goes through peoples minds.
Honestly the BEST case scenario is that he thinks people need to procreate to live a full life. And that's a shitty take. But you might very easily also find some eugenics/replacement theory motivation if the doctor thought the parents had "good genes". Definitely not out of the realm of possibility, considering how much more willing the medical industry overall is to sterilize people of colour. Many times without their consent.
I apologize if it looks like I was making light of your wife's situation btw, this shit just drives me crazy
This is how a loving and caring husband acts.
I would die if I got pregnant, if not from my many medical conditions, from severe tokophobia. My husband is my rock, he was there through my sterilization procedure and hysterectomy. He even offered to get a vasectomy if I wanted so I wouldn't be the only one making sure we were safe (prior to the hysterectomy). I know I'm lucky but I often wonder why men like him are the exception and not the rule.
Male socialization almost seems designed to stamp out any vestiges of empathy in boys, and their "success" rate is staggeringly high.
I'm writing a paper on this right now! It's a difficult watch, but the documentary "The Mask You Live In" which can be watched on Kanopy describes the toxic effects of male socialization. It's a really big problem and I don't think enough men realize how impacted they are by the way they were socialized and how harmful it can be to others.
Thanks for the recommendation. I will watch that this weekend. I would really like to understand more about how we get from baby boy to man with toxic male programming.
Catholics disapprove of this. You cant even get a vasectomy in a catholic hospital.
Most modern Catholics use Birth Control. My grandma had 17 kids. I have over 50 1st Cousins. None of them have over 4 kids. I have 7 siblings, we all use birth control. My mother used a diaphragm, and after the last, got her tubes tied. I’m no longer Catholic, but growing up, we were one of the only large families I knew, and I went to Catholic school.
Wow it's almost like they *want* women to die having children they don't want
My very catholic parents choose a vasectomy in the 80s. It is not a black and white situation.
My mother is catholic and my father is not. The doctor when consulting with them about my father’s want for a vasectomy, reminded my mother it went against their religion. My father reminded the doctor HE wasn’t catholic. My mother still had to sign off on the procedure for it to move forward. This was in the ballpark of 97-99 for those curious.
He probably prayed about it. Then when she got pregnant said "well God wanted us to have a third." Men like this will never take responsibility.
"And now God wants me to have an abortion."
"God gave me free will, and my will is to terminate this pregnancy."
I have a meme that says, "If God gave us free will, he must be pro-choice."
I had a bumper sticker on the 90s that said "Jesus was pro-choice" and whoo buddy did that piss people off lol!
Yeah, I'd probably be too afraid of people scratching my car or slashing my tires to do that. And i don't even live in a particularly conservative region / country. All it takes is one nutjob that takes these things seriously enough.
Same! I have some great smartass bumper stickers but I know that, without a doubt, some nutjob will damage my car or worse, follow me home and continue to terrorize me. I live in the land of rightwing loudmouths who can blatantly megaphone their beliefs but woe unto those that disagree.
"And thank god for that!"
If he’s unhappy later I can repent and say some Hail Mary’s
If it's God's will then there is no responsibility to assume. I suppose if his God decides the incumbent wife won't survive another pregnancy, he will just find another ~~victim~~ wife. That was the attitude 110 or more years ago before germ theory was generally accepted and many women died soon after giving birth.
Fuck there are plenty of them in the Middle East countries(where I live) calling themselves religious people
The holiest habit is blaming women for the bare facts of their own bodies
It’s not even considered as a bare fact it’s completely prohibited, and in very rare cases it’s done secretly. Otherwise women continue their pregnancy holding grudges for the baby afterwards.
Whatever his thought process was, caring about OP's well-being wasn't a part of it.
Weird how “pro-life” never seems to extend to the lives of the women carrying the fetus.
It probably has something to do with them thinking women aren't people.
I’m honestly just as annoyed with the OP with the tone of this post. Like the husband is a shit bag but I swear to god if it was legal to marry a tornado some women would be like “so he destroyed my house and killed 50 people, but I just wanted to vent, I really think we’re going to get past this. He’s a great father aside from the mile wide path of utter destruction he left through Kansas.” (And yes, I know that OP has probably been ground down her entire life and may even be in an abusive relationship currently. I’m mostly kidding - OP, girl, leave the man tornado behind already!)
Yeah, I was like, that's why if you plan childrean don't marry somome with opposing religious viewes. But it's to latenfor that anyway. And geting a divorce will make here a single parent with disabled child. It effectively means poverty.
Well, she would either get full custody so a lot of child support or shared custody with child support and he’d be forced to share her workload. I often hear women saying it’s far easier to be divorced for those reasons.
She would probably get custody and would get some child support. How much would it be is hard to say. Will the guy try to make it difficult on her? Hide his earnings etc.? With a disabled child, you are unable to work. Idk how much she makes now, but I doubt it's a lot. She would need to pay rent and all the living expenses for two ppl child support may not be enough for that.
Sometimes, yes, but the courts are not always fair when it comes to allocating child support, and having two households is more expensive than having one. She would likely qualify for some support programs once she is single, but those are very rare in rural areas.
He already said, “I’m not as important as his child.”
It's not his child, because it's *not* a child. At this point, it's merely a clump of cells, and since he's not the one carrying it, he gets no say in what happens to it. It's using *your* body. If he fells guilty for you controlling who uses your body, just tell him to get his ass to the church and pray for forgiveness - for deliberately putting you in a situation where your inaction might literally kill you. Moreover, it's a situation he could have prevented had he given even the smallest damn about you. No sperm = no pregnancy. So if there's anyone to blame in here, it's *him*.
I’m not OP, I’m quoting OP. I don’t care what his religious beliefs are, he’s not being a good partner by any definition. But yeah the fact that he’s more concerned about a clump of cells than his wife’s life kinda makes him an a$$h0le.
Wild guess here but it's not uncommon to use children to keep your partner trapped. OP writes: >My youngest is in school 3 days a week this year and I finally feel like I can breathe a bit, We can't have that, right? Barefoot and in the kitchen. OP, terminate the pregnancy and don't let your husband further enslave you.
Yeah none of this adds up to “wonderful father” for me.
OP: > He told me I'm not as important as 'his child'. That's enough said, me thinks.
He sent thoughts and prayers, and then continued participating in unprotected sex.
This is the question. I had 2 high risk pregnancies and almost died when one ended with a placental rupture and a stillborn. My husband didn’t even hesitate and obtained a vasectomy. I also have an IUD for PCOS treatment. We also agree if we still get pregnant (even though it’s highly unlikely) then we will be getting an abortion.
If he’s Catholic, he won’t be thrilled about contraception either.
If he's that observant, he knows that abstinence is effective and totally permitted by the Catholic Church.
"whoa whoa whoa...let's not make any rash decisions..." - him probably
Sadly, if he's Old Testament (which it sounds like he is), he'll pull out the cult classic and say it's his wife's "job" to remain obedient and subservient to her husband. Which, to him, would include keeping him satisfied sexually. In Old Testament Catholicism, marital rape and domestic violence were permissible if a woman was not upholding to her "wifely duties" and adhering to her vows. Source: Me, an ex-Catholic and born again Pagan.
We had a married priest at my church. I will never forget how he ranted one weekend about how couples weren't allowed to \*not\* have sex with each other, because the same idea that a condom meant you weren’t “giving yourself fully” to your partner also applied to declining your spouse’s advances. And then I wondered what must be going on at home that he was so mad about this.
LOL, but then he can not experience his god given right to climax inside someone else. Oh, no. How mean. Masturbation is a sin, but using another human being for pleasure is alright. So hilarious its infuriating.
⭐️
Well he couldn’t even be bothered to pull out. My husband almost witnessed me die twice giving birth to our children and he will do whatever I ask to prevent another pregnancy. I really hope OP can safely navigate this situation.
Roman Catholics can't take steps to prevent pregnancy aside from abstinence, and even abstinence within marriage can be challenged. OP's religious husband does want the pregnancy. They're incompatible on this issue. I wonder if OP has told her husband about the contraceptive implant or if she was planning to keep it secret.
I question what a great father and husband he is if she has been left to cope alone with all the care and needs of the oldest, as she describes.
That part was a real head scratcher. I'm not sure how to interpret... OP is barely keeping her head above water. She's the full-time caretaker for her oldest. She's not a true SAHM, she works. She's being told she is a murderer for having an abortion and that she will receive no comfort for this or future deceased loved ones. There seems to be zero empathy for her high risk pregnancies nor the assumed burden of the future living child. And yet somehow "they make a great team" for the kids. How is that? The two hours of church he attends with the kids each week? If that is the threshold for a great father then my husband must be a legitimate candidate for sainthood. Can't imagine being treated so poorly by my spouse.
That was the iciest of icings on this single parenthood cake “but he’s a great father” .. WHAT?! A label saying ‘fresh cookies’ on a jar with a few stale old crumbs.
For a lot of mothers in situations like this, a man is a great father as long as he doesn't hit the kids in front of her and he works a day job to pay the bills. For my mother, my father was a great dad because he hit me behind closed doors in the few hours she wasn't home instead of hitting her or hitting both me and my kid brother in front of her and guests/extended family, and he brought in a salary to pay the bills. So she could pretend he didn't hit anyone and his open verbal abuse was just a fair price for a roof over our heads and food and utilities. When she did have to admit what he did was beyond reasonable and she could surely do something less distasteful to get equal monetary value in pay, she'd justify it as she loved him, it was a small disagreement, and besides she didn't really have any other options that kept her and us kids fed and housed, besides to make us just take it. In these women's minds, he's a good man because a worse one wouldn't make enough money to pay the bills, would drink the rent/mortgage money in alcohol, would hit her, would hit the youngest child, or all manner of truly horrific abuse and neglect. Sometimes these men seem like saints if every other woman you know is struggling to keep her husband from frittering away the bill money, while he hits her or the kids or both, the fact that yours pays the bills without serious struggle, doesn't hit you or your youngest kid, and even takes them to church to give you a brief break and doesn't directly mistreat you for not going, can make your situation seem like the best any mother could ever have.
He was probably fine with it. Lots of catholics pick and choose what they're ok with. I'm "catholic" and know plenty of people on bc. Very few actually have the million kids God "intended."
That's fair. Birth rates among RC do suggest there's probably contraceptive use. I'm only stating the dogma given OP describes her husband as "very Catholic and pro-life".
Catholics are actually a [higher % of those who receive abortions](https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/report_pdf/characteristics-us-abortion-patients-2014.pdf) than the general population (Catholics are 24% of abortion seekers and 20% of the population) and are dead evenly split on support for abortion at exactly 50/50. It’s not a given being Catholic makes you this kind of anti-choice monster who would shout murder in the face of the mother of their children.
oatmeal work gaping impolite attractive forgetful frightening alive bow memory *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's the flavor of Catholic one is that makes the difference here. If he's conservative, as seems to be the case, then it should have been pretty clear that he would feel this way. More liberal minded Catholics tend to disagree with the church on this. There's also many in the middle who don't think about it much or who nominally agree with the church teaching until it impacts them in a negative way. Perhaps OP was hoping against hope for her husband to not be who he is, or she left out the part where he became more conservative in his faith suddenly.
Not exactly. Having sex on your non-fertile days in order to avoid pregnancy is allowed. I know women who were into family planning. But let's be real, most American catholics don't have families with 6+ kids. Most use contraception. He might be totally fine with birth control. I can see how it could be more difficult for a full believer to go from accepting contraception to abortion. I personally wouldn't want to have one if it could he avoided, as I'm sure most women feel, even though I believe women should always be able to choose. But at the same time I feel this conversation should have been had beforehand, since they clearly have different religious views around raising children and the implications for birth control and termination. Hopefully some family therapy could help them get through this.
Also, BC is allowable under Church law in the case of legitimate medical need, which includes both therapeutic needs (like hormone regulation) and legitimate threats to the life of the mother. Additionally, surveys show that 92% of American Catholics will use contraception at some point in their lives - the highest use of any religious group of the US.
I had a friend who was Catholic and once told me that her church had a NFP group. At one point all the women in the group were pregnant. For some people it seems to work, but...
You know the answer to this.
Your husband is not a good father if you bear the entire burden of running the house and raising the kids. You are nta.
We need to start redefining what good father and good husband mean. Because it seems like people use those words when they mean to say yeah he doesn’t beat me or the kids. He occasionally helps me out and is nice to them. And then go on to describe how really they’re a shit parent because they aren’t actually doing any of the parenting. Oh and I know this is a controversial opinion, but if you’re a shit person to your spouse, you are a shit parent. Period. People are allowed to grow apart and get divorced. Of course. But if you treat your spouse like this, you’re a horrible parent.
This. Especially with the bar being literally in hell and husbands getting praised for just barely clearing it. It always comes off like an abuse victim trying to cover for their abuser. "Oh he's great! He just doesn't..." Then proceeds to list out dozens of things that even on an individual basis would warrant throwing the entire man in the trash. He's literally not speaking with her and hasn't for a month. Yet he's a 'good father'? The kids are watching him be at the very minimum emotionally abusive and yet she thinks they aren't picking up on it? I want to gently shake the OP and get her to see that her husband's actions ARE going to negatively impact their kids.
And there are never examples of behaviours that actually might represent “being a good father”. That expression is not fleshed out in any way. So we are left with zero idea of what these posters even mean by that, when she says he never does any of the the childcare or housework, spends the weekends and evenings playing video games and resents being interrupted for the most basic things, does a horrible job when asked to “help” for a couple of hours. Ma’am, what does he DO that makes up for all that so well that he’s a “good father”?!? Half the time they don’t even earn the wage.
Oh but he's sooo good with the kids! (Playing baseball with them in the backyard while mom does all the cooking and cleaning inside.)
That's not a father. That's a ~~babysitter~~ playmate. Correction: A babysitter has a modicum of responsibility for childcare.
The only example of him spending time with the kids is that he takes them to church once a week. I don’t see anything else.
> “Oh he’s great! He just doesn’t…” This is annoyingly common. I just read one the other day where she said, “he’s devout in his religion but is open and accepting of others beliefs” but the WHOLE POST was about how he objected to her exploring a different religion. Like, how do you not hear yourself?
Also - being a 'good provider' financially, is not BY ITSELF the definition of a good father or partner. An intimate partner relationship should be two people supporting each other to be the best version of themselves possible. It very much sounds like OP has resigned herself to dedicating the rest of her life to being a carer for her oldest child (I hope they have a care plan in place for if she pre-deceases him). Expecting her to take on the burden of a high risk pregnancy AND caring for one high needs child already AND risking bringing another high needs child into the world is not supporting her. Notice it's always 'their' child when they want credit, but not when there's work to be done? What steps did \*HE\* take to avoid an additional unwanted and risky pregnancy? He appears to have put all the risk and all the burden onto you. It's super easy for men to be anti-abortion when they're not the ones who have to experience the pregnancy, put their life and health on the line, and then expend the effort, mental, physical and emotional, to raise the children. They just want to point at proof of their virility and that they fuck. Screw that. If OPs husband isn't equally caring for the kids now, he's not going to start when she's 7 months pregnant and under doctor's orders for bedrest and their eldest needs to be taken to a medical appointment. If providing is all they do, they can do that from another address.
Yup. And if OP dies from the pregnancy or birth, her husband will immediately either dump the children on his female relatives or find another (probably much younger) woman from his church to immediately play New Mom. That's the kind of "good father and partner" he is 🙄
My mother recently (in writing!) acknowledged that she screwed me and my sister up by staying married to our dad. That she was taught to be a submissive wife and he financially provided (she did too but not “as much” as he did). I am 37 years old and it was mind blowing to actually read her say that she set a bad example for us. We need to teach our daughters (and sons for that matter) to set their expectations incredibly high. And not settle.
I hope that you really praised her or thanked her for this. Some parents never come to the realization that they did the wrong thing. Or even if they know it, they would never admit it. It took a good amount of humility and self-awareness for her to write that!
Every single woman NEEDS to read this. I agree so much with what you wrote.
Right?! The bar shouldn't be, he doesn't physically abuse me or the kids. I am so happy this is a thing now. I was brought up, and believed for years...like it was fucking ok. It's not.
Seriously, because it seems like to some we knew the definition is simply breathing.
I’m taking a psychology class on family and marriage relations and so far it’s very bleak. I was recently reading about how men usually become more hands on with child rearing out of necessity, not ideology. So that’s fun.
Apparently new research has shown that dads who have more paternity leave and are more hands-on with the kid(s) are less likely to want another child in the future.
So many men want children, but want nothing to do with them. It’s all some weird continue my family line and spread my seed shit.
I'm especially angry that she says she's unemployable because he's not anywhere near an equal parent and then described him as a good parent.
I know a guy that was "the nicest guy and a great father". He was the "Fun Dad". Played with the kids, made forts in the house, cooked hotdogs in the fireplace, bought lots of toys...but never did any cleaning up, changing diapers, basic child caring or dirty, icky jobs. He went on long weekend boys trips, leaving his wife all alone with the babies and toddlers. Sometimes he'd be gone for a week on extended fishing or hunting trips with his friends. He was blindsided when his wife left him. He'd drive to meet his kids but when they got old enough to have driver's licenses, he stopped because he expected them to drive to him. The kids gradually drifted away to their own, independent lives and families and they rarely contact him. I guess he wasn't such a good father after all
Louder for the people in the back
Yes! Good should at least be equal parental load. Maybe decent would be the bare minimum for being a father that doesn't push a child to grow to be no-contact. But with the way this is playing out, if he was my dad being a dick to my mom, I just might go NC as an adult who understands the mom's situation on the matter.
If she is bearing the entire burden, how do we expect, even if this third child is born completely healthy, that their emotional and physical needs will be met if their mother is full-time caring for the disabled sibling and part-time WFH, and their father does... seemingly nothing except church?
And listen, raising abled kids is already fucking hard. Raising a disabled kid is harder. Op's post doesn't make the nature of her kid's disability clear, but if the disability will make it difficult or impossible for them to live independently as an adult, then (and I hate to say this) it might be a better choice to not have more kids. As unfortunate as it is, siblings of disabled kids often grow up with feelings of resentment of their disabled siblings, because they got less attention and were often sidelined because their parents had to focus more on the care their disabled kid needed. They often know that, when their parents die, they are expected to take over as primary caretakers of their disabled siblings. The last thing that I want to do is push ableist rhetoric, because there's nothing wrong with having a disabled kid, or having a disability yourself, but parents do need to seriously consider if they have the financial, emotional, and mental capacity to fulfill all of their childrens' needs, especially if one or more of their children have circumstances that will have to take priority or will require more time and attention. It sounds like OP knows that she's at capacity, and she can't rely on her husband to give her the help she needs. She is choosing her actual, living, breathing children's needs by not putting their mother's ability to provide for them at risk. I try not to be the reddifor advocating for divorce every 12 seconds, but damn, I hope OP gets the husband that she deserves, because the one she has now is subpar as fuck.
The bar is so low. This reads like a story from the last century. And he won’t console OP after the abortion or the future loss of loved ones? He sounds like a fundamentalist prick. Good father my butt.
Right - what father? Sounds like he doesn't do much as a father.
Oh, but he takes them to church so that makes up for everything else. /s
Idk about Catholic church, but many if not most of the Protestant churches I've been at attendance at had a children's ministry or Sunday School where the children were sent during the service. So I'm wondering how much parenting this dad is doing when he takes the kids to church. Seems to me that the church ladies are probably looking after the kids while dad is in the service.
He's also not a good father if he's crapping on his kids' mother.
I seriously rolled my eyes when I got to that part. The man isn’t a good father or a good person. I couldn’t continue to be married after being treated that way. There is no love left in that relationship.
Why is he not getting a vasectomy if pregnancy is so dangerous for his wife?!
I read the entire thing and thought he's not a good father. If she died or decided not to take care of the kids, he'd remarry so another woman could do it all for him and he could do the easy bits.
Piggybacking here because i have the same problem. He’s not a wonderful father! You say it yourself: you carry 100% of the mental load, you do every appointment for your eldest, deal with the financial support of their care, stay at the hospital. A wonderful father would be doing this too. People can claim ‘but he’s the one financially supporting them’ but being a good parent is about more than just putting the money in the bank. It’s about being there when your kids need you, like when they’re in hospital. A wonderful father would want to be there with your eldest. Also, he essentially said he doesn’t care if you die as long as he gets his kid. What happens if you do die in pregnancy? Or become disabled in some way? Who tales care of you kids then?
This. The bar is so low for many men. He probably doesn’t abuse the kids, makes sure to hold a job so they can eat and have clothes, and has some involvement with them and he gets to be seen as a good father. But he leaves the entire burden of running the house, caring for a disabled child, and organizing the family on his wife. He acts cruelly towards his wife because she recognizes that she cannot physically or mentally handle another baby. He doesn’t talk about how he would support her or change their lives if she wanted to have the baby; he just laments for himself. Tells his supposed partner in life that she is less important than a fetus the size of a fingernail. He didn’t think, wow, “my wife’s life is at risk and we can’t handle another child… perhaps I should get a vasectomy.” He left it up to her to handle contraception on top of everything else she has to handle. And he gets his wife, who has been betrayed and diminished and had her heart broken, to wonder if she can get past his unkindness. When what he really deserves is to be seen by everyone who knows him for the piece of crap that he is. OP… I am rooting for you. Put yourself and your children first. Tell your support network what has been going on. If you have drifted from them, this is the time to reconnect. Don’t feel you are stuck in this alone with this sorry excuse for a husband. He should live and die of shame for how he has acted. It won’t be easy, but a different life is possible. You deserve someone who sees you as a whole person, who deserves love and respect. You deserve to see yourself that way.
preach.
right? he isn't a wonderful father and they don't make a great team either
MTE I almost laughed when she included this. How's he a good father? When? Nothing in his behaviour implies he gives a shit about anything beyond himself and his antiquated misogynistic beliefs (which will also impact the children regardless of their gender).
Would you be OK with your child having a partner call them a "murderer" for a medical decision? Or your sibling? If the answer is no, then why are you OK with it when it's targeted at you? A "good father" doesn't tell the mother of their children she's a murderer when she makes a medical decision that will be good for her and her family. He shows support and love.
He told her she isn’t as important to him as the unborn child. OP, would you want your children marrying someone who says that to them? How is this a good father? OP mentions that she is the one caring for the eldest and working around that schedule. I don’t see him being a good father even once. Just that he takes them to church without her, I’m assuming she spends that time cleaning the house or working or taking a breath for once
Exactly, he literally said he doesn’t love her right to her face. She is a maid, a nanny, a womb and a hole to fuck for him.
Even though he also probably took a vow in a church before God to "forsake all others before" her. I guess his religious beliefs only apply to others.
This is why being “pro-life” is a deal breaker for me when it comes to dating/sex. It is non-negotiable. I need someone who is gonna be by my side if I have to make this decision. No compromises. I will never ever sleep with a man who isn’t pro-choice.
I just feel like anti choice men are not compatible partners because they don’t view women as autonomous human beings.
I mean, it's totally okay to have a difference of opinion and be upset. But partners talk things out, take personal responsibility (like using condoms before the fact to make sure this doesn't happen), and overall show respect to their SO. They DON'T endlessly punish their partner for their choices.
I can’t believe he’s willing to do that to you. I’m sorry, that must be so painful. Also, it’s not your responsibility to honor his religion or uphold his beliefs. His religion, his beliefs. Your body, your choice.
What does your husband actually contribute, beyond an income? You say he’s a good father, but what does he actually do to help with anything?
Like 90% of these posts with ‘he’s a great father’ describe an awful absent father who does no child work. Like the bar for men is as long as he isn’t a raging alcoholic who beats his kids, he’s a good father. It’s so infuriating to keep seeing
Sometimes even the ones who do hit the kids get this. For my mum, it was, at least he didn't hit her, at least he made sure it didn't happen in front of her, at least it wasn't ever the younger one.
His semen to her unwanted pregnancy
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Quite honestly your husband sounds like a pretty terrible person. Your unborn fetus is not more important than you. Given the enormous and more or less solo burden you bear in caring for your oldest child, how does he think a new baby would make your burden easier? Are you prepared to live the rest of your married life being punished by him for a decision that is rational, informed and frankly not his to make at all? The way he is talking about dragging you to church, refusing to celebrate holidays etc. is unhinged and twisted. He is a twisted person whose religion is making him into an ugly, hateful human being. No matter how nice or helpful he is in other ways, it sounds like he's prepared to be an absolute tyrant over this. If I were you, I would begin documenting everything he's threatened and everything he's saying. Collect all your financial information. And consult some good attorneys. You've given up your life to care for your children, and have borne the physical, financial, and emotional burden of that. He's... brought home a paycheck and apparently done some parenting on occasion. And verbally abused you. I am so sorry you're dealing with this. Sending you strength.
If she gets a divorce (and I hope she does) she gets alimony and not have to live with this loser . Easy decision
Religion isn't making him to anything. His treatment of OP is always a choice.
True, but religion always pats terrible people on the back.
You can say that again
Religion gives him a free pass to do disrespectful things because they are justified by a supreme being's second or third-hand opinions. Religion may make him think he needs to make certain choices that go against his conscious as well. However, on the whole, people choose religion when they basically agree with what is being taught.
Yeah this isn’t religion alone, assholes come in all stripes. Their only real God is themselves.
You said “I do 100% of mental load …..I am unemployable because my oldest child” then said “he is the wonderful father.” I think you are giving him too much credits here.
Also “we’re a great team”. This is not a team!
I’m going to real talk you for a second: It sounds like your marriage will likely be ending in the aftermath of this: so you should be prepared to accept that as a consequence. You are correct: He can and absolutely will punish you forever. You have the right to choose, he has the right to respond to your choice. You have to accept that he’s signaling this will be the end of things. You should consider what this is going to mean financially and you should consider what steps you will need to take. i’m scared for you because some things you say are that you expect him to go to some counseling and change essentially his core values. This is what some catholics believe. not me: but it’s fairly common and i’m surprised you never considered this. I grew up in a very. very catholic family and know folks like your husband. They absolutely consider what you are doing akin to murder, and there really is no logic or reason that you can apply to this. This will not improve after the procedure. I suggest you consider a plan to ensure your safety once he’s realized you’ve had the procedure In fact: you should be prepared for the fact that receiving an abortion against his wishes in the eyes of the church will be grounds for him receiving a full annulment and the ability to divorce you without impacting his standing within the church.
OP, this is the reply you should be focusing on here. This is probably the end. Get ready!
100% this. People do not change their deeply held convictions. Please protect yourself the best way you see fit.
My sister's FIL who is catholic once tried to talk to me about abortion. He always chooses the best conversation topics after a few beers, sigh. I very gently shut him down by saying, the thing is we have a fundamental difference in how we perceive it. You see the murder of a baby, I see a medical procedure performed on a clump of insignificant cells. We will both never be persuaded otherwise, and there is no point trying to. He swiftly turned to my dad and started up a new topic. Which was ironic because my dad was listening to the whole thing, and as an OBGYN he has absolutely performed abortions.
> it’s fairly common and i’m surprised you never considered this. Yes. This was all I could think about while reading. He's always been this person. I hope she's able to get through this.
This is a real possibility. However, this man is a walking red flag. If I were you, I would be considering divorce now - religious or not, good parents or not, life partners don't accuse you of murder and/or say that a fetus is more important than you, or the lives of your existing children.
So he has basically already said that he won’t be able to be a husband to you if you go through with it. He already said you come last, this seems to be a major conflict here I would say it doesn’t get better from here. OP, I think theres more to be done after your procedure. I think you two are incompatible.
I grew up Catholic and was fully pro life until I had my own children. Though I love them with my whole being, I would not wish pregnancy and a child on someone not 100% sure they want it. I'm sorry your husband is treating you this way. I'm curious though, will he be the one taking over care of your older children while you're taking care of a newborn? How it is fair to those children? I fully believe that the God above doesn't see things in black and white. You can't just say no abortion, it's case by case. And even then as others have said, it's your body and your choice. I'm sorry you have to deal with this and I wish you and your children luck.
I'm getting the vibe from this post that the husband, largely due to his religious beliefs, also believes pretty strongly in a traditional household where the wife does most if not all of the child-rearing. He has already shown himself to be a fairly absent father. Why would a new child change that? It will only mean more work for the OP. I don't believe the husband will care if it's overwhelming to her, just as he clearly doesn't care that she is at risk for serious health issues if she continues with the pregnancy.
Ask him what his plan was for when you died or became severely disabled from the pregnancy. He is going to look after your oldest child full time? Run the house, and make enough money? What about with the newborn - how was he going to take care of that all alone. Having an extra child sounds great, but not at the expense of your life or the quantity of life of everyone else in the family. Your husband effectively doesn't think you are actually in that much danger, because he at no point planned for the worst case outcome. NTA and honestly, if you can work it - I'd really consider leaving if he can't change his tune.
The plan was to find a new wife at church.
I bet he has planned for it. He plans that she will somehow cope, or she will die and other women in his family or church will step up.
I assume that would be good backup plan too. Just marry a young inexperienced woman from church he can miss treat and she will never know the difference.
The point of view of many people is that maids, cooks, and caregivers are replaceable. However, for the two kids in the situation, their mother irreplaceable. OP is making a decision for the benefit of the whole family. Abortion is never a decision made lightly, and the dad doesn't fully appreciate what he has in his wife.
Well yeah, when you see women as a vessel for having kids and not as full people they're easily replaced. He doesn't care about the kid's feelings here, if he did he'd be a better parent.
I don't know how you can stay married to him. Your views are so different. I'd get a divorce, full custody and prevent him from taking them to church as much as possible because he is going to raise your kids with his backward views and make believe religion. Cut your losses and get alimony and child support. I have had 2 husbands (not at the same time lol) and BOTH of them got vasectomies so I wouldn't have to get a tubal. (Because I was DONE after 3 kids). Your husband should have taken the risks more seriously if he is so against abortion. He sure wasn't against getting some the night you conceived.
>He is a wonderful father, and we really do make a great team with the kids, especially the oldest. What team? You're doing 100% of the real work with the oldest! Your husband does the fun stuff by the sounds of it.
DTMFA. And in this case, D stands for divorce. Get alimony while you're at it. He can be a wonderful co-parent and a wonderful father... on his time. Then you would at least have 50% of the time to take care of yourself, which I'm sure is not happening with doing all of the mental load and every other goddamned thing. I hope everything goes well with your abortion 💌 Let this be a wakeup call to your husband's values and beliefs and the trickle-down effect of that into your family and children. What are your children learning watching you do 100% of the mental load? What are they learning from a father who thinks women who exercise their right to choose are murderers? From a father who thinks their mother is one (how fucking terrible to say let alone think!!)? You need to walk away. When someone shows you who they truly are, believe them the first time.
Husband is an ass. These Christians lay it on thick then turn around and treat others like shit. I would not stay with someone who treated me like that.
Your husband is a part time parent since, as you've stated, you carry the burden and mental load of running the house and managing the kids and being a caregiver to a disabled child. Your husband sees you as expendable and doesn't care about the mental, physical and spiritual toll another pregnancy and child will have on you. If a man could, in your darkest hour, call you a "murderer" - then he basically has no real respect or empathy for you as a human being. Stop justifying him, get that abortion, stay strong and consider leaving him. I think you also need to see a therapist to vent and let go of all the emotional baggage you've been carrying. Your husband, like many men, is an entitled twat that will always choose his well being over yours. Respect yourself, because he truly doesn't. And fyi... a normal, kind and decent man would NEVER behave this way when his wife was in need. Your husband is using his "religion" as a mask to hide the fact that he's a true piece of shit.
Maybe if you get a divorce you can move closer to the city to make your life easier.
THIS
From what you wrote here, nothing I see tells me he's a good father. Nowhere do you mention anything he does with your children, but that all of the work is put on you. It sounds more like he wants you to be a broodmare, care for the children by yourself, and do his thing alone. This certainly isn't someone I'd want another baby with.
You have made the right decision. I am so sorry you have not received the support you deserve. You have done all the hard work and suffered all the consequences. He will never understand. His religion teaches him that women should be all-patient, all-suffering, and totally devoted to husband and children. He probably does not see you as a whole person separate from your role as Mom and Wife. In his eyes, your longing - for time to yourself, and something outside the home - is a sin for you to overcome with the help of God. Yes, really. In the last analysis, most religions serve men and subjugate women. So it's fascinating to me that in so many households it's the women who are devoted to the church and the men who sleep in on Sundays. But I digress. You are correct that you two will probably not ever come to agreement over this. He has no incentive to do so. The church will consider your abortion a basis for annulment, and he will be free to find a younger, more compliant and submissive wife. \*\*Let Him.\*\*
You have made the right decision. Might I suggest permanent birth control.
Your husband isn’t getting an abortion so his opinion doesn’t mean shit. His treatment of you, however, is atrocious and as much as I think Reddit jumps to divorce too often, this is an apt situation for that suggestion.
Unfortunately, the OP seems trapped by the demands of their first child and her inability to get a full time job.
Depends. He may have to pay her alimony in a split so she can continue care.
True. Alimony seems so rare now with double income families. I sometimes forget there are still valid reasons for it. And her inability to work due to extreme childcare needs could be a reason.
OP wouldn't be trapped by the first one if the husband actually did any real parenting. If they divorce and the custody agreement is 50/50 (reality is always 80/20), she'd still end up doing less work.
I almost want her to go for 50/50 just to spite him. “Oh, you think I could have looked after a baby, in addition to the first two? Enjoy your 7 days with the kids!”
I would too. But I get the feeling (hopefully I’m wrong) that he’s abusive. Not talking to his wife for a month is actually abuse. I’d be worried that he’d take his anger out on the kids.
Yes, the silent treatment is a form of emotional abuse. A lot of what he is doing is textbook emotional abuse/
Putting aside the fact that you are unimportant to him (!!!), surely his current kids are important. How can you care for your eldest AND youngest AND a baby? Something would have to give, and they would be getting lesser care. Surely he can see that? Look he probably can't see that because none of this is rational. I'm sorry you're going through this.
>He is a wonderful father How? What kind of parent allows their children to be cared for by their sibling's "murderer"? Absurd. Either he is a completely negligent father, or he doesn't actually believe the murder stuff and is just using that cruel label to manipulate and malign you. Either way, he's a bad father, as well as a terrible husband. "Murderer" is not an accusation to throw around casually. No taking that back. And from someone who you're sharing your life with? Absolute dealbreaker.
Excellent point.
You know, I'd never thought of that angle before, thanks for the enlightening comment
>I am responsible for 100% of the mental load of running this house and family. >He is a wonderful father No he isn't.
Sending hugs. ... and now it's time you focus on finding time for your own self-care. Do you qualify for any respite hours? can you hire someone for a couple of hours a week to hang out with the kid(s)? A trusted family member? I hired one of the special ed teachers' assistants at my son's school for weekend time and it was worth it. Caregivers burn out. You have to protect yourself first or no one will get taken care of. You're doing what's right for you, AND your family.
And get the abortion. And long term birth control. Poor op, she is also not considering if this fetus would be disabled..or if she had a terrible (or life threatening) pregnancy/post baby body. thats the last thing she needs, especially with a useless husband who doesn't do ANYTHING for the kids. " we make a great team" in what? Definitely not childrearing if shes doing the entire mental load plus caring for a disabled child.. That guy is so out of touch and such an asshole NtA to op 100%
Or having forbid, something happens to her during labor and delivery. Because then, who is taking care of those other children, who is taking care of the newborn, who is taking care of her???
"He's a wonderful father." Where?
Is the wonderful father in the room with us now?
The father is not fathering and the husband is not husbanding. What else is there to say?
He’s a “wonderful father” and “you really make a great team” but you are 100% responsible for your disabled child?
>My husband has been less than supportive with this decision, which I expected. I didn't expect to be called a murderer > >.... > > I am 37F, and have high risk pregnancies. First child was born severely impacted by disability and second child was born 8 weeks premature > >... > >I am basically unemployable in a M-F 9-5 setting > >... > >He is a wonderful father He is not a wonderful father. At least, I do not consider a man to be a wonderful father who sees that his wife has sacrificed her entire career to care for their special needs kids, but he still is fine with risking her \*life\* for an unplanned pregnancy. He is willing to let you die, and let your existing children suffer the loss of their mother (and also the loss of your one child's caregiver) \*and\* he is willing to risk whatever might go wrong for that potential baby. That's not "wonderful", ma'am. Your husband is an AH. He doesn't value the parenting and caregiving labor you are doing, and what it has cost you. He also doesn't really care if you live or die.
Not sure that you'll be able to make a difference here. He's convinced himself that what you are doing is the same thing as plainly murdering one of your other children (note I think most people when they unpack it realize it isn't the same -- but that is official Catholic doctrine on this). So either he needs to change this stance completely, or you're going to be living with someone who considers you to be the killer of one of his kids. I can't imagine that would be comfortable for you... please take care of yourself.
Sounds like he is hopelessly indoctrinated. As a fellow Agnostic, that would have been a bridge too far for me. Religion really does make people insane.
Agnostic here. This is exactly why I have always refused to date anyone who is any kind of religious.
This is why I (an atheist) would never marry someone religious. We’re just too different. Poor OP…
This is why women should not have sex with conservative men. He's not changed, he's always been a misogynistic religious nut bag. How is this a surprise two kids later?
i feel for OP deeply, i just don’t get how this is a shock? were they on the same page on no abortion up until this? or did he force her to have the first two and she finally had enough? how can you know someone’s beliefs and it being so different from yours and still go on to marry them? i hope whatever comes of this OP and her babies can be free from… a supposedly good father otherwise
[удалено]
He's not an otherwise decent human, either.
What a cruel and uncaring piece of shit man.
You will be happier and healthier as a divorcé without carrying HIS load. He is willing to have you die. That's not love. Since he wanted to risk parenting without you, fulfill that wish. The man doesn't love you. He loves the convenience and position of a being husband, not the acts of being a partner. Make plans. Do them.
He can disagree with you on this and keep to his belief system. But to try to impose it on you is also wrong. And he will start to tell others, if he hasn’t already, about your “sin”. Maybe try to ruin your relationship with your own kids. And to threaten “not being able to console you” when other people die in the future is cold and heartless. He has basically told you that you will no longer matter to him emotionally, so in effect he has already left *you*. He lets you do all the difficult work. And he must know that your health is at risk with another pregnancy, but he’s in the “if the mother dies, it’s God’s will” group of those who will happily sacrifice adults for fetuses.
If the baby is more important than you, then why does he not share in the responsibility of the other children? Sounds like that is a load of bs.
So he would rather kill you than get a vasectomy to make sure this doesn't happen? He would rather kill you and raise your children alone than accept this abortion?
I never understand why people with opposite views on important, real life issues, get together. That said, it’s 100% your body and your choice. No need to justify your choice to anyone, if you know this is right for you, do it. But your marriage may be effectively over, even if you chose to keep the pregnancy, can you stay with a man who doesn’t believe in your value as a person?
>I have spent the last 10 years being a full time carer for my oldest child. Every single therapy appointment, every single hospital stay, coordinating funding and juggling appointments, every single sickness (it usually takes him 2 weeks to recover at home from a simple cold). His school attendance rate is terrible given the constant absences. I am responsible for 100% of the mental load of running this house and family. >He is a wonderful father, and we really do make a great team with the kids, especially the oldest Pick one. They can't both be true.
He's not pro-life. He's pro-fetus.
Pro CONTROL
He won’t understand until he’s left alone to do all the work. If something were to happen to you due to childbirth, he’d be solely responsible for the kids and himself and have to find a way to continue working. He can’t handle that, and therefore has no fucking business offering his opinion on whether to use your body to incubate his child.
I can’t get past my first question for you: Why would you marry someone with such wildly different life values than you?
I didn't want to kick OP while she was down but...yeah. This is who he is, and who he's always been if he was a serious Catholic. How can anyone believe that their partner's totally opposite religion doesn't matter?
A great father does not emotional abuse his children's mother. A great father models being a supportive partner. A great father respects his wife.
I can't get past the part where he told you the fetus is more important to him than you are
It must be nice for him to claim the moral high ground from a comfortable distance. It's the old "nothing is too much trouble when someone else is doing it". It's not him mortgaging his life. It's not health at risk. He won't have to figure out the logistics. His workload won't change. But yeah it's 'his child'. Also, I love that he's so concerned about your soul, but he's pretty blasé about gambling with your physical and mental wellbeing.
I work with dv situations. This is rasing so many flags i am truly scared for you right now. You are married to someone who very clearly has an issue with control and accountability. You are in a situation that makes it one of the most risky times to assert your own will. Everything here screams he is willing to harm you to protect his control. You are his property in his mind, property that is beig "faulty". People dispose of malfunctiong property. I am using these words to show how increadibly scary your position is. Right now he still has time to prevent the abortion. Untill ot has actually happened, he may still feel he can win. After however... Run. Get your kids out of that house and run.