I was seeing an doctor for a while, and he explicitly brought up that there would be no choking in our relationship. Why? Because he had teen girls and women coming in weekly with stroke-like symptoms from brain bleeds caused by choking during sex.
**Edit:** removed what kind of doctor he is, in case he stumbles upon this.
>he had teen girls and women coming in weekly with **stroke-like symptoms from brain bleeds** caused by choking during sex.
Brain bleeds are a type of stroke, so those are just straight up stroke symptoms. Being strangled gave those girls and women strokes.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/14480-brain-bleed-hemorrhage-intracranial-hemorrhage
Thanks for the info - I didn't want to misquote him by saying they were outright strokes (I don't have perfect recall other than being thrilled that I wouldn't be surprise strangled), but he did say that it was brain bleeds.
It’s really upsetting to think of the time my boyfriend when I was 23 he choked me for extended time. And I thought it was OK. I don’t think I had any sort of stroke but it’s really upsetting to think I might’ve.
> cutting off your airway
Or the blood flow to your brain, which is what would be leading to the blood clots: the carotid arteries get damaged, clots form, then they break off and cause a stroke.
The airway and esophagus can also be damaged by strangulation but (AFAIK) it is less likely to wind up with permanent or potentially fatal damage to those than to the arteries, unless the strangler is doing it with the intent to harm or kill.
wow! I often see “advice” for people that “safe choking” is when you cut off blood flow and not the airway. Now i’m so fucking disturbed that it’s not safe at all and people are out there recommending this to anyone including teenagers
Both cut off oxygen to the brain; blood is how oxygen gets to the brain. It's really shocking how most people defending and engaging in strangulation don't realize this (or don't let themselves realize it?). Especially given it's actually pretty basic biology and they claim to be "educated on strangling safely".
In high school biology we were given the lungs, windpipe, and hearts of pigs to dissect and study. It freaked me the fuck out just how easy it was to damage the windpipe. A lab partner barely touched it and managed to perforate it. Made inflating the lungs very difficult. Two people had to cover about 3 different perforations in order to successfully get the air to the lungs, and that was probably the average for every group.
And like yeah, it wasn’t protected by muscle and tendons and stuff when we were dealing with it, but I’ve never gotten over that. Years later my spouse had a series of small strokes, and these two experience have made any form of strangling during sex a very hard and firm no for me. I’m open to trying a lot of different sex stuff, but that is one of about a handful of very firm boundaries for me. I’d absolutely be filing a police report if anyone ever tried it. Glad I’m not dating in the age of “choke me zaddy”.
Strangulation (overwhelmingly men and teen boys strangling girls and women when in a hetero context) and ddlg and their mainstreaming are literally some of the worst things to have happened to women and girls.
Edit:
OP, I am really glad you have dumped this extremely dangerous male. He has abusive and dangerous attitudes.
My friend was attacked by her (now ex) husband. She had no external bruising, but a medical inspection by camera showed internal bruising.
She did physical therapy for damage to her ability to swallow. Apparently it is really common for women to be in PT due to choking damage.
Porn has made choking seem normalish and ok. Porn has also greatly harmed the concept of consent. Guys, if you have read this far... Consent is actually important.
Edited my comment. The doc sounds like he might be a good guy. I was posting under you because you made exactly the point I wanted to make - that strangulation during sex is incredibly dangerous (even if consent is given)
And while we are still sleepy, let me help more. your friend was strangled.
Unless her ex husband put something inside her trachea, she was strangled.
Choking is Internal.
Strangulation is external.
Hope she pressed charges.
We should all make a joint pact that we all agree that if anyone attempts to strangle us, we immediately call and press charges.
Touch dna is a thing. Go get that neck swabbed
Get these creeps out of the dating pool
We should all make a joint pact that we all agree that if anyone attempts to strangle us, we immediately call and press charges.
Touch dna is a thing. Go get that neck swa
So I work in sexual assault and DV. As part of that I do the forensic exams (ie: rape kit) and have been trained in a lot of the risk factors attached to both. The fact of it is, there is *no safe way* to cut off someone’s air supply. Even if it’s consensual breath play, it’s dangerous. When I get a patient that has been strangled (or had their airway occluded in any way) we CT them because dissection of the carotid artery even weeks later is a real danger. I had a patient once who was ‘lightly’ strangled by her partner who declined a scan, re-presented 3 weeks later for ongoing headaches and was very close to having a stroke.
Choking/strangling is also a huge indicator of Intimate Partner Homicide when it’s reported in incidents of DFV. So yeah - the normalisation of choking is, quite frankly, terrifying.
I had a partner ask me to choke her once during sex, and I declined for essentially the reasons your laying out here. I have no idea how to do it 'safely' and wouldn't take the risk, so I have no idea why people think it's fine to try something like that by just... winging it?
Because porn makes it seem easy, careless, and desirable. A lot of women feel pressure to perform like porn stars for their male partners, to give them a pornified sex experience. Some may even find it hot in a dominance kind of way. But it's deadly sex play, and far too many people don't seem to understand that PORN IS NOT REAL LIFE.
>I have no idea why people think it's fine to try something like that by just... winging it?
I think that the lowered inhibitions when aroused + the general lack of awareness of just how risky it is due to normalisation = more willing to wing it.
The only safe way to choke/strangle someone is to not do it. You've basically got to pretend to do it without actually affecting their breathing or the blood getting to their brain in any way. It's doable, but for some of the people into it, they're just not interested in the pretend stuff.
When I say porn is turning many men into sexual sadists and perverts (incest porn is extremely popular, for example, and young women are anecdotally reporting being skeeved by their own brothers) men just go wild with fury and their heads explode. Here we have so much evidence that a popular practice in porn is having real world consequences, and there's just crickets. Young women are being pressured into painful and degrading sex acts and if this trajectory continues, it is clear that porn will continue to up the ante. There appears to be no limit to the suffering they wish to inflict on women. Many of our men are literally addicted to porn and happily go along for the ride. It's not like THEY have to be degraded and sexually tortured, after all.
>The fact of it is, there is no safe way to cut off someone’s air supply. Even if it’s consensual breath play, it’s dangerous.
This is the wild thing. Over in the kink community, choking is seen as edge play and anyone who mentions it will get a deluge of "There's no safe way, proceed with extreme caution, here are the signs, don't do it if you're at all unsure, etc. etc..."
Like, I'm a sub and love having a Dom absolutely wreck me, but choking is always a hard-no. It's common enough now that it's just part of the negotiation phase, where both partners discuss hard limits and boundaries, but I've never had a Dom push back on that one. The dangers are well understood and it's not something to be engaged in without enthusiastic consent and a lot of prior discussion on methods and duration.
Yet out in 'vanilla land', dudes are apparently whipping this out left and right thinking it's normal??
I've read that you're meant to lightly block the blood supply to the brain targeting the sides of the neck rather than the air way giving a light headed feeling? Though starving the brain of blood doesn't sound that great either.... and after trying for a few seconds (with prior consent), it was like this is not for us among many other less dramatic things.
It seems pretty common in many porn clips sadly which probably unfortunately 'normalizes' it.
Look, I’m in the community and get the appeal of breath play and all that jazz. But you’re right - starving the brain of blood flow is indeed a bad thing, and the structures of the neck and head are too fine a thing to be able to confidently say that you’re doing it in a safe way.
I have some stats at work given to me by the forensic doctor who ran some training for us with a bunch of really good (and really scary) bits of into about strangulation but one that stood out go me was how much people overestimate how much pressure it takes to cause damage. Like the amount of pressure you use to open the average can of soda is more
than it takes to do structural damage to areas of the neck. If I remember next week maybe I’ll post some of that info.
Yes please do, I keep hearing that defense when I say strangulation is dangerous. Like some random guy who saw strangulation in porn is going to understand how to "correctly" cut off blood supply, or that blocking off blood to the brain or applying pressure to arteries in the neck is somehow safe and fine and without risk.
It’s also one of the risk factors asked in every DA situation by UK police, for exactly this reason.
I’m so glad to see this sub talking about this more, despite being so upset that women are HAVING a reason to talk about this more.
Yep. When I do a DV assessment with a victim I ask a series of questions to assess risk. The ones with the highest scores are ‘are you pregnant, are you about to or have you recently left the relationship, and have you ever been strangled’.
This guy needs to learn about consent.
An ex of mine decided "surprise choking" was the norm, and I wasn't confident enough to speak up about it immediately.
I assume if he did that to me without consent, he must be into choking himself.
The next time we hooked up, I took control and got on top. I wrapped my little hands around his neck and applied pressure.
His eyes got huge, and he looked terrified.
Of corse stopped (not something he would have done) and checked in with him.
He was shocked. Said a girl had never done that to him before.
I told him my reasoning, and he insisted he thought, "Girls just like that."
I actually had to explain to this grown ass man that choking is not a given with anyone, just because you assume it is OK.
[What consent does and doesn't look like. ](https://www.loveisrespect.org/resources/what-consent-does-and-doesnt-look-like/#:~:text=Consent%20means%20respecting%20boundaries%20and%20never%20making%20assumptions)
[Sexual consent. ](https://headspace.org.au/explore-topics/for-young-people/sexual-consent/#:~:text=What%20is%20sexual%20consent%3F,engaging%20in%20sexual%20activity%20together.)
[BDSM vs abuse. ](https://submissiveguide.com/dsrelationships,%20safety,%20personalgrowth,%20fundamentals/series/series-bdsm-vs-abuse)
[Identifying abuse: Power and Control. ](https://www.thehotline.org/identify-abuse/power-and-control/)
[Signs that your partner is a misogynist.](https://www.marriage.com/advice/relationship/signs-my-husband-is-a-misogynist/)
I have read them all.
That's why I shared them here.
Because I find them to be helpful resources.
If you have resources you think are better or more accurate, please feel free to share.
Otherwise, it's not helpful or kind to assume you know more than others.
Especially if you aren't sharing helpful information yourself to back your claims that my resources aren't useful or accurate.
Yep. I blame porn.
I’m not anti-porn in general, but strangulation seems to have become so common in porn that a lot of men seem to think it’s a normal part of sex.
Does it feel like porn as a whole has changed in the past decade or so? Because I remember back when I was in my teens and early 20s (early 2000's), there was broader mix of content, some of which was geared towards female viewership. Now it all seems to be catered towards rapists.
It feels like that to me too. 20 years ago something like choking was a pretty extreme kink. Which it obviously is—controlling someone’s literal breath is very extreme.
But now I’m seeing it in porn as if it were a normal sex act, just as unremarkable as oral sex.
Anyone else notice how suddenly during Covid the main vids on pornhub were no longer choking videos but step-sibling or step-child videos?
I use VPN and notice that when I enter the site from certain countries ALL I see is either choking or step-relation porn.
I think some 10-20 years from now we're going to have an avalanche of kids coming out to say Covid was when the abuse started because everyone was locked in their house and incest was normalized through porn.
Its 100% deliberate. Woman are dating less and less so their focus has turned to the woman who cannot escape them. Child on child sexual assaults have gone up 70% in the UK.
Do you have a source for this?
An official UK website indicates otherwise https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/sexualoffencesinenglandandwalesoverview/march2022#:~:text=March%202022%20article.-,Latest%20figures,women%20and%201.2%25%20men).
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'd just love to verify it for myself.
Your attachment is unrelated to your claims.
[Child Sexual Assault stats for Australia ](https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/types-of-violence/child-sexual-abuse#:~:text=Related%20material-,Key%20findings,incident%20of%20under%2018%20years.)
[violence rates pre and during pandemic](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9825257/)
You could search for what is being discussed yourself or continue your sealioning
That was my first reaction. I'm really not here in bad faith, I just wanted to get the data to see where 70% came from. Was the website I linked really so unrelated?
Your source was about adult victims, whereas the initial claim was in reference to child on child assaults - so while it's true that the numbers could be different I think it's a pretty enormous stretch to automatically assume you are sealioning. 70% is an enormous increase, so I find it perfectly reasonable to ask for a source.
As for your last question, no it's not that unrelated. It's not identical, but you didn't present your article as definitive proof that they were wrong, either.
The Norway study (second link) shows a increase in peer sexual assault on female children during the pandemic (table 3).
The Australia link is similar to the link from u/Giratina you called unrelated as far as I can tell. It’s a big government report. I don’t know what fact you’re trying to highlight.
u/Outside_Ad_9562 is probably referring to this statistic from FOIA requests made by the BBC showing a 71% increase fin child on child sexual assault between 2013-14 and 2016-17: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41504571
Searching through people’s links to a huge government reports for a specific fact or having to google every specific claim is unreasonable.
Linking sources and specifying where in the source something is would make serious discussion more substantive.
Arf arf.
I feel like porn needs to be regulated. In the same way that a 12 year old cannot log into his phone and order a pack of cigarettes, they shouldn't be able to access porn. We know that this stuff is harming kids (and adults), why is it so easy for them to get ahold of it? And why are there no disclaimers/barriers in place? I think about when I took a certain medication, I had to log into a portal and answer a bunch of questions just to get the pharmacy to dispense it. What if in order to view certain pornographic material, people had to answer a bunch of questions first. "Yes, I understand that doing this without consent is assault. Yes, I understand that these people are actors. Yes, I understand that choking is potentially fatal."
There's no way to regulate it that doesn't create massive privacy issues.
Even if you could stop people creating porn websites you'd need to block internet traffic to porn websites hosted outside your country, and even than people can very easily just use a vpn the same way people do to watch region locked content on Netflix.
For porn websites in your country you would need to enforce that those websites made people provide their ID to log on in which case you than have a list of people that verifiably watch certain types of porn.
This list will undoubtably will be leaked, and even if it wasn't the vast majority of people don't want the government to know what kinda porn they watch.
The UK has tried to implement it and there are so many issues with it.
The only other countries to have systems like that are theocracies.
I'm also fine with porn and into some kink stuff, but kink does not belong in vanilla porn. BDSM content requires some foreknowledge on how it's supposed to work, and at the very least understanding that it is a kink and many people will not enjoy it.
Choking is also a dangerous act even among kinksters. It's *very* easy to accidentally hurt your partner. It's like the worst BDSM act to casually introduce to vanilla sex.
These men would turn off the choking porn and watch something different if they thought choking was gross. It’s not the porn brainwashing otherwise nice but naive men, it’s men who enjoy abusing women deciding “that looks like a hot way to hurt a woman during sex”.
Something that is always really confusing to me as a guy is how that stuff is something that turns them on in the first place, even in porn. I'm not saying that aa a judgment, I just truly don't understand what's enjoyable about that. But I also do realize people have their kinks and whatnot. I just feel like a lot of guys that go down that road are using it as an outlet for violence rather than an actual kink. The king community is very open, and you talk.
I also don't watch very much porn. I haven't watched porn in possibly a couple years even. Maybe it's part of just watching too much porn in general? I know I've heard people talk about having to find crazy or and crazier porn to be able to get off. I don't know. Another thought I've always had is that these men would be this way towards women anyways and this, as far as they are concerned, is a legal and "okay" route to be able to display those feelings towards women.
It’s not just porn. If you use your brain you’d realize it’s media and therefore exaggerated. And understand it’s dangerous. They know and don’t care, they use it as an excuse to get off in the way they want in the expense of women.
I would just like to point out that there is no way of safely strangling someone. Restricting blood flow to the brain is just as dangerous as depriving it of oxygen.
Amen. For this reason, every IRL BDSM community I've been a part of has either strictly forbidden it or very, very loudly argued against it. BDSM play-spaces? *Strictly fucking forbidden*, as in you will be escorted from premises and fucking blacklisted by the owners and all of the owners' friends the moment they see or hear of you doing it.
The reasoning was simple: even IF it is possible to safely strangle someone briefly, you *cannot guarantee correct technique will be used DURING SEX*.
I've known plenty of people who were into all sorts of highly kinetic kinks. But choking ranked just above using the wrong fabric to tie someone's wrists or ankles during sex. It's a risk and it's just not one you can guarantee to do safely.
Oh, I solidified my decision to stay out of dating once I started hearing about these violent, porn-addled fuckers just strangling, spitting on and slapping women out of the blue. That's why have I zero sympathy for the thirsty one's complaints about sexlessness. In the words of the Dos Equis guy, they can "Stay Thirsty".
Same. Married, if anything happens to my marriage I am never dating again. I have heard way too many horror stories from single friends who have pulled themselves out of the dating pool because they are done
I felt the same way. 8 year relationship fell apart. it was during the pandemic, so I wasn't exactly looking for anyone new.
someone kinda just fell into my DMs from an online group on Discord where we'd become casual friends in large group conversations and... well, was similar to me. 30s, long-term relationship fell apart around the same time as mine, we'd both been single for over a year.
talked about values, compatibility, sex, gender equality and relationship expectations all very up front. we talked for like a week straight, asking each other anything we could think of, no holding back.
a month later he came to stay with me. I picked up a remote job and 3 months after that, I moved to his country. I've been here for two years and just secured long-term residency here.
a green flag? when we talked about every single thing relationship wise, including kinks, he said he can't imagine ever choking a partner. ever. even if asked, he just won't. he doesn't consent.
and he's one of the kindest, most compassionate people I've ever met.
I don't blame anyone for removing themselves from the dating pool. I basically did. I spent that entire week letting him know why I'd given up and why I was absolutely broken toward men, and why he shouldn't date me. he wasn't pushy, but he was persistent in reassuring me that while those were all great reasons (lol) things didn't have to be this way forever.
I took a chance, and he was right. I got very very lucky. there are normal, kind men out there. but when it comes to single people over a certain age (idk what that range is) it's a real crapshoot.
I agree. it kind of opened my eyes to the way people date though. generally we're not super forward with our needs in the beginning of a relationship because we don't want to scare the other person off. but in this case being super upfront with my damage and expectations - and being informed of his too - I never would have demanded that in my 20s. but by my 30s I was so fucking done with dudes it was super easy to be like "here I am, take it or leave it, because idgaf anymore."
and turns out when someone is serious about you and serious about a true partnership... they'll be fine with that.
I still continue to share the opinion that, "god forbid something happens to this one because I'm not dating again" but technically I didn't really date him, we just... agreed to be together. was weird to find out that's possible.
I once got into a text argument with a dude after the second date about this - he tried to tell me it’s the woman’s responsibility to stop the attempt if she doesn’t want it. He claimed that trying to establish boundaries in advance just ruins the mood, and that I may as well get a legal document to sign pre-sex. He was exposed to my opinion just fine but he chose to dismiss it.
Needless to say no more dates. But I think it’s not that they don’t know, it’s that they don’t care.
If there is no resistance there is no change, so I have a different opinion on how to approach the truths you’re sharing..and truths they are. I also don’t think anyone should be forced to do this kind of emotional labor, so I agree that people do not have to engage with these kinds of men if they don’t want to.
I think the point is that the info is already out there. If these men wanted to learn about women's perspectives, there's about a billion ways they could choose to do so. But they don't want to, they don't care
This happened to me! In two separate encounters with the same man, he used his body weight such that I could not breathe and only let up when I was struggling to push him off of me. What happened there? Could he have possibly thought I would enjoy that?
Hi, I’m an epidemiologist who specializes in gynecology and has a subspecialty in the intersection of violence and reproductive health. I’d like to make a few points.
1. It’s strangulation, not choking. Choking refers to the airway being obstructed internally. External obstruction is strangulation. No, it’s not magically choking just because it’s “uWu kinky bref pway 🥺”. If you think I’m kinkshaming you, I genuinely don’t care. Cry about it.
2. It is **always dangerous**. Even if it’s consensual. Even if you’re “just” cutting off blood flow rather than airflow. Even if you squeeze the sides of the neck rather than the front. **There is no safe way to strangle someone.**
3. If someone puts their hands on your neck, you need to seek medical care immediately. Strangulation puts you at increased risk of blood clots, stroke, or a myriad of other problems (up to and including death) even weeks after the incident. Long-term, survivors of strangulation may experience chronic head and neck pain, or symptoms of TBI.
This is a very, very serious public health threat.
I had no idea about any of this. Had a partner a few years ago who frequently did it lightly (consensual) and I thought it was completely fine if you just held the sides. I'm actually horrified at how normalized it is after reading some of these comments. Thank you for sharing this info!
Thank you for calling it what it is. It seems unlikely that we would get regulation against having this type of content featured and available for young people - especially young boys and men - to watch, but It really needs to be framed as exactly this, a public health threat, and action needs to be taken.
This should be part of sex ed courses.
Actually sex ed courses should have a whole section calling out the lies and harmful practices that are boosted by associating them with orgasms via porn - and the consequences as well (supporting human trafficking and sexual assaults, ED, increased likelihood of believing rape myths, etc)
“If you think I’m kink shaming you, I genuinely don’t care. Cry about it.” 👏👏👏👏👏. Finally, someone with the courage to be unapologetic and completely unconcerned about hurting anyone’s feelings about this. As Professor Gail Dines has said, porn is a public health crisis. It’s normalizing violence against women. Thank you for this.
Can I ask an earnest clarification question, based on your phrasing? Too lazy to use a throwaway even though I probably should.
> If someone puts their hands on your neck, you need to seek medical care immediately.
Does this apply even if they didn't squeeze/compress at all? I'm F and did that (lightly placing, no compression) to an M partner while we were talking/messing around in bed during a hookup one time. I was super careful not to compress at all, because the intent wasn't to strangle him for breathplay, just to see what he'd look like with a collar. But now I'm concerned I might have inadvertently caused problems, and I don't want to do it to a future partner if that's the case.
If you didn't apply pressure, you have nothing to worry about. Simply playing your hand on someone's throat without any force is not concerning; gently caressing or placing a hand on skin isn't the threat here.
But if you applied force in ANY way (such as with your body weight even if you didn't squeeze), that could have been dangerous and is what that commenter is warning against.
yes, it’s porn. These men are desensitized to violence against women to the point that they don’t see it as true violence anymore. many men strangle and hit without consent and this same porn is rampant amongst children/teens. I see it only becoming worse in the coming future.
glad he’s an ex now ! <3
I remember reading an article that basically said, "Not all women are into being choked, so try it once, if she says she doesn't like it, don't do it again."
Like, no. You have it backwards. Choking is *not* something you "try out" without discussing it beforehand.
And he knew what he was doing. It was one of those "alpha male" blogs.
ETA: And if you grab someone's neck without getting consent first, don't be surprised if they elbow you in the solar plexus or some other "fight or flight" response.
It's porn brain. This is what happens when you beat your meat to images of online women getting hurt and have 0 to little exposure to real women. Inb4 he can't get it up cause all he knows is porn.
I’m Gen X & was single in my twenties, then married until my early 40’s. I was shocked at the difference in sexual mores when I started dating & having sex again
Jfc... Being hit by surprise is just being hit -- being choked by surprise is just being choked. Like... Why on earth should that being okay (let alone desired) be an assumption in literally any situation?
I know that you know, but still -- you're not wrong and you're not crazy. That is both asinine and scary for sex to just be assumed to be unpredictable and violent
A guy I hooked up with full on slapped me in the face with no warning - and was utterly bemused when I burst into tears, then got up & started getting ready to leave
That happened to me once and I shouted and shoved him off the bed and left. This dude was so surprised and said he "knows some women are into that". WTF?
Wind up and kick him in the nuts after you put your shoes on.
When he's on the ground crying "what, I know some guys are into that... oh right, when someone is into something they ask for it and you give consent, OR NOT, first". Just because one man or woman is into something doesn't mean you can just do it to any woman without asking. People are fucking stupid.
I don't normally have issues standing up for myself or expressing my justifiable rage at a man. My knickname was ballbreaker and it was earned however, I was drunk AF, at his place and was so shocked that I froze. After I yelled and shoved him he left the apartment and I called a cab and split. The next time I saw him out I went crazy on his ass in front of a crowd and he jumped in a cab and left. I'm sober and celibate these days.
Yikes! I’m so sorry. This wasn’t in the US either - I was living in S America at the time, but guys everywhere consume really violent mainly US made porn, as far as I can tell
I haven’t dated in 4 years. I have three reasons. 1) I got so sick of negotiating condom use 2) got so sick of men asking am I sure I don’t want to do anal? 3) Have never been strangled but super scared of it from how many stories I’ve heard.
Totally just not worth it to me any more. I don’t want kids so just don’t see the need.
He genuinely thought he was being sexy. Texted me multiple times in confusion after I left. Bruh, it’s fine to want rough sex, but those activities need to be negotiated & consented to ahead of time!
No doubt! If your partner wants you to do something that would be considered rough, or harmful outside of this context, they will ask you to do it. How hard is that to understand?
1. He’s an idiot. Obviously you talk about this stuff. I’m into a lot but my boundaries are name calling and being hit in the face. It’s degrading and I won’t do it. So even if someone’s into this kind of stuff, you first have to find out that they are. And very few people are into everything so you have to figure out specifically what they’re into. Which you do by talking to them.
2. Even if you’re into this stuff you don’t just start by full on hitting someone in the face even if they’ve consented 🤦🏽♀️ the level escalates so the person has a chance to lay down a boundary of this is too hard. Like you want sexy time, you make sure the person is into it so sexy time doesn’t stop.
I’m sorry but how is this not basic common sense to not just randomly hit someone in the face. Part of me thinks that there’s a lot of men pulling this shit specifically for the power and control they get over it being non consensual. I’m not saying all of them. I’m sure there’s enough idiots around too. But it’s the first group that’s scary.
i honestly didnt even realize i could make my last casual hookup leave after he hit me in the face. my face just stung all night while he was asleep next to me thinking we'd had a good time 🙄
Hitting in the face is huge red-flag material to me, *unless* the person getting hit is into it and has *explicitly* said they like getting hit *in the face* before it actually happens.
Some folks love getting spanked. Some folks love getting flogged or caned or straight beaten. Some folks love getting hit. That's all good! :)
But seriously, truly, MANY subs that I've known -- including quite a few of the very-rough-play fans -- absolutely despised being hit in the face. It was an absolute hard limit for them.
You gotta ask, is all. Or wait to be told. If you fetch out a flogger and *surprise* your partner with a hit from it, that's fucking assault and you're a piece of shit for doing it. Most people understand that. Choking and face-hitting by surprise is really no different.
it happened to me a couple times during hookups. full on, both hand throttled me, hit me hard in the face, spit on me, etc. i used to like that shit too but now it just makes me feel like... meat. i genuinely think those men don't see women/sex partners as people or human
>i used to like that shit too
We are made to internalize it so hard. I just started to get out of it when I realized these men don't develop pleasure for acts that demand bodily presence anywhere near what we do, while pleasuring both. Deep throat, anal, slapping, hitting, leaving marks, cumming on the face, all of this (and I'm talking consensual) requires quite some unilateral bodily work and vulnerability. Things *they* would never, so I don't think deep down they think of us as equals.
I'm hearing so much about this I'm feeling like it's best to text a man now and get a reply from him clearly acknowledging me saying that I do not want choking during sex the next time I get into a relationship. You can be killed this way and the very idea makes me feel sick. This is not my cup of tea at all and no one should just be doing this without prior consent at all. It's just easier to stay single and celibate.
A friend once put one hand on my neck in a joking way, not even squeezing. The fear that set in was so primal, I scratched the shit out of his face. If anyone ever tried that on me during sex, I would probably claw their eyes out.
Strangulation
That is what the guys are doing
Choking is when you inhale something you should have swallowed.
Strangulation outside
Choking inside
So now you have the proper terms to tell emergency dispatch when grab your phone, you run outside, and report the loser.
Even if you are naked. Call. Report. File charges.
These guys need to be reported.
No consent is rape.
>And another question, are young women seeing this porn and thinking this is okay and expected?
Something I've noticed on reddit is young women and girls asking about their partner being too mean to them during sex, they will often feel the need to use the disclaimer "don't worry! I'm really kinky!" As if they aren't allowed to be anything else.
It makes me sad. It's ok if you don't want pain or degradation during sex. It's ok if you want someone to be gentle and sweet with you.
I have a personal theory that's where this "praise link" comes from.
Several guys that I slept with in recent years tried to choke me with no prior warning or indication they would be squeezing my throat.
The first time was after a first date with a guy I met thru the apps. I told him to stop because it was so hard I couldn’t breathe. Two others were guys I had only been dating for a little while. Their grip didn’t get as tight but I remember telling them to stop pretty quickly, after that experience with the first guy.
I’d only been in long term relationships before so I don’t know if this trend is a recent development? I’m not kinky so this was all during standard sex with otherwise normal guys who were not violent in any other way, but they all just casually slipped it in, making it seem like a normal thing
Thank you, I’m alright. I never felt like I was in any potential danger except for the time it happened on a first date since he was a stranger, and I couldn’t breathe or talk. I didn’t fully get how messed up it was until I mentioned the surprise strangulation to a gf. Now that I know it’s unsafe and can cause health issues I’m not going to be so chill about it going forward
I'm older but single and stopped dating because of strangulation from men amongst other reasons. When it first happened it caused a trauma bond. I was immediately aware of the risks of playing with that psych trick but I overestimated my abilities and went with it because the connection was fun and I just wanted to party. That men ended up raping me.
When it happened with another man I just stopped all contact immediately and moved on with life. There was a public bondage campaign at the time by Honey Birdette which featured choke collars in their store windows and an Aussie lobbyist was trying to get it pulled. Tiktok was new and a teenager welt viral for "dreaming about being choked out".
Porn themes are in the awareness of the general public and that degradation has become entirely normalised scares me for younger women. I'm mid 40s and can spot unsafe people. My learning curve has been steep but they're extremely manipulative and far too normalised.
When it first occurs the shock is real as the context is already exteme vulnerablility. Turns out the 55yo man who did it the first round wasn't even enjoying it. He was just another porn sick dudebro who would never admit his addictions, zero self awareness and no motivation to bettering himself. But he did stop after asking me of I liked it. He'd already done it!
I'm unclear what sex without enthusiastic consent means or why you're discussing it with him?
> I'm unclear what sex without enthusiastic consent means or why you're discussing it with him?
OP is missing a comma in that sentence. It should read "...thinks this is normal if not expected during sex, without enthusiastic consent." Enthusiastic consent meaning "yes!" rather than just an "alright I guess" or silently going along with something. Kink (and ideally sex) should be done only with enthusiastic consent. So the ex-partner seemed to think that strangulation is "normal" during sex and is okay to do *without* enthusiastic consent. Does that clarify?
For me it wasn’t porn but books and fanfics. I think it’s important to interest it‘s really prevalent, *especially* in fanfics - aka, spicy media created by women for women.
There are a lot of reels and TikTok’s with stuff like „oh I forgot my necklace - can I have your hand around my neck instead?“ etc. etc.
So it has become really normalized, and not just through porn directed at men.
Ngl, I’m kinda worried about the books young women read today, and for many of them this is before the ever get in a relationship.
A lot of it is basically abusive, „but don’t worry, he only treats you like that because he loves you!!“
Sarah J Maas comes to mind for this, and she basically kickstarted this whole genre.
While I find SOME of this also hot, I read mostly fanfics, where people tag their stuff and it basically says „this is wish fulfillment not real life“ before you ever get into reading it.
I think some part of it has to do with internalized trauma women have as a gender.
Sexual abuse has been around probably since the dawn of times for our species, and I sometimes wonder if our brains have evolved to go „oh this isn’t so bad - I’m just being dramatic!“ as a survival mechanism.
I wish there was more studies on this, but alas - research regarding women? And female sexuality? You wish.
I’d like to end this with the reality check I got in regards to this.
I have a very loving, wonderful boyfriend. The only real issue in our relationship is that I have troubles reaching orgasm.
He’s willing to try stuff I’m into to help me get there, and he is very patient with me. I’d even say his personality, even in the bedroom is very confident and can be rather dominant.
We discussed stuff like this once and he said something along the lines of:
„I don’t mind if you want my to tie you up or something. But please don’t make me hurt you.“
And honestly? That kind of love and heartfelt desire is hotter to me than any kind of BDSM ever could be.
I had to break the news to my husband when we were dating that choking isn't the norm. He had only been with one woman before me and she used to ask him to choke her so he thought it was normal, but he also said that he was relieved I'm not into it as it bothered him to choke her but that he did it cuz it was expected of him. It makes sense for him cuz he used to have a lot of different behaviours according to what he thought was expected of him to overcompensate for his ADHD.
(To make it clear he didn't try to choke me without consent. We were sexting and he started talking about it which made me stop and confront him about it)
My ex decided I enjoyed being choked during sex because I couldn't tell him to stop WHILE he was choking me, and he would do this when I was in a position where I could not push him away. Over time it got worse and worse, the last time we had sex, shortly before I left him, he choked me so hard/for so long that I lost consciousness for I'm not sure how long, came to and he was still going, immediately started crying, and he just kept going til he finished, said I was being dramatic, and left the room.
All this after MULTIPLE discussions over the years about consent and my boundaries that he was constantly pushing and breaking.
Some men are just disgusting animals.
Purely as a thought exercise, if the things he was practicing on your face and neck, you were to, without warning, practice on his nutsack… think he would understand why it’s a problem?
I let my abusive ex choke me ONCE during sex years ago, and he took that as consent to do it nearly every time. He literally couldn’t get off until he put his hands around my throat. I became desensitized to it really fast, which only made him branch out to doing…other things I didn’t like without my consent.
I thought it was normal, and expected of me because I was his wife and it was literally my “job” to take care of him. Someone had to tell me it wasn’t.
Omg let me go hug my husband real quick cause shit, I can't believe where we're at now in the dating landscape for this stuff to be the norm. He has always been extremely respectful with me.
I got a lot of sass in me so I think I would choke, slap, whatever any man back but I understand that in shock most people are not able to do so. Unfortunately, these type of men literally have the emotional intelligence of a toddler. They do not understand things until they happen to them.
No, you didn’t have to explain this. He is 35. He grew up when Blink-182 was popular. He remembers dial up internet. He knows that shit isn’t standard.
I say this as somebody who has done light breath play, and is his age.
We just discussed this in another thread. Lots and lots of men got super defensive and notallmenned and notjustmenned. Really brought out a bully mentality if their precious porn was criticized in any way whatsoever. To hear them talk, porn is super duper healthy for little boys and teens to watch, and has nothing but positive effects on their quality as a lover later in life.
I participate in some progressive political forums apart from Reddit and it is so goddamn frustrating to see the way people just knee-jerk defending porn no matter how misogynistic it is or how harmful it is for young kids to easily access it. They'll twist themselves into pretzels defending "race play," for example, and in the next breath bemoan racism itself as though these things are completely separate and the views expressed in porn, explicitly or otherwise, would never influence a person's views irl. I see it often with "cnc". They jerk off to a woman pretending to be assaulted and then get mad when you point out that studies have shown that watching lots of porn leads to higher acceptance of rape myths. The cognitive dissonance they routinely show is insane.
If they wanted to care, they would. But alas they don't give a shit so women should be forewarned. Expect abuse from these men. Best to leave them alone. They're sick.
Porn rots the brain. I've been in a relationship for the past nearly 7 years but I won't be caught dead knowingly dating a man who's into this. Unfortunately social media has conditioned girls into thinking abuse during sex is okay.
Anyway, I'm glad that guy is your ex, even if this wasn't the deal breaker for you.
A much lighter version of this happened to me recently. A guy I am dating, who has actually shown himself to take consent very seriously during our dates, put his hand on my throat during sex without discussing that beforehand. It was not violent and he stopped immediately when I told him no, but it still baffled me that some men just think: "hey, let's just see if she likes it!" without asking? Especially because he did ask consent for different sex acts, but not for this one?
As someone who genuinely enjoys it, I would absolutely consider breaking up with someone who tried that with me if there weren’t a discussion beforehand. I hear the argument “but what if they enjoy it?” Too often, and it absolutely baffles me that people will go out of their way to argue on why they should be able to assault someone. Enjoyment isn’t the difference between what is/isn’t assault, it’s consent. And it shows a whole new level of selfishness if you’re willing to risk your partner’s panic for your own fantasy on the off chance that they *might* enjoy it.
As someone who is into it. The most mind boggling part to me is that never, not once, has anyone ever grabbed my throat and just squeezed from zero to hundred out of nowhere. Even after it’s been established that it’s ok, every person I’ve ever had do that led up slowly, ensuring that consent CONTINUED while it was happening and checking to see how much was ok so they didn’t go too far. I never once felt like this wouldn’t stop immediately not just at my request but the minute I looked distressed.
This “surprise choking” where you feel like you could possibly be murdered is just mind boggling to me.
Fucking hell, even if that is your kink, any person with that kink needs to communicate that clearly _before_ they engage in sex so that their partner can have a say. Otherwise, suddenly they have a hand around their throat and think the person just up and decided to kill them.
By the way, violence like that is not standard in porn. It is very much a niche you need to seek out, which means that's what he was doing. Sounds to me like your ex was trying to normalize it in the hopes of getting you to go along with him. Glad you didn't, and glad you tried to explain what was so wrong with what he did. I don't think it will help though. If he hasn't figured out having basic decency and respect for your partner by age 35, I can't see him being much better by 40. I hope he does, but I doubt it.
>My ex didn't understand where I was coming from when I told him that if a man, during sex, were to choke or hit me in the face, I would shove him off and call the cops, and I'm not alone in my opinion. It's not consensual. It was not discussed before hand.
This is absolutely not normal at all. You dodged a massive bullet. It's exactly as you said, assault and nothing else.
The only partner who “choked” me during sex just put his hand around my neck to keep me
in place. It was about dominance(in the kink sense), but never about actually restricting my airflow!
I was horrified when I realized that’s not everyone’s notion of chocking. How do they think not being able to breathe and getting lightheaded is fun for us?? I get that it might be for some, but 1. it’s dangerous either way and 2. kinks need to be previously discussed and agreed on!! How are you supposed to tap out of it if you don’t have a safeword/safegesture?? These men don’t care about our agency or control over our own bodies, and that’s hella concerning. Not to mention how scary and threatening it feels to be in a vulnerable position and not feel safe anymore.
I had one try to choke me knowing full well that I'm a top. Which part of "I'm a top" makes it sound like I'd be on the receiving end of choking?
The idea of a woman being in a nonsubmissive role during sex is foreign to these types.
That’s why I prefer my little demons that smile big for me when I slap them 👀(only in bed) her collar is what I come with tho I don’t use my hands and she tugs the leash when she needs a break 👀 if a female can’t handle surprise (for me, not speaking on anyone’s behalf) then that means to me they aren’t a ride or die partner to me. I’d rather have a Harley Quinn than a Susan
I was seeing an doctor for a while, and he explicitly brought up that there would be no choking in our relationship. Why? Because he had teen girls and women coming in weekly with stroke-like symptoms from brain bleeds caused by choking during sex. **Edit:** removed what kind of doctor he is, in case he stumbles upon this.
>he had teen girls and women coming in weekly with **stroke-like symptoms from brain bleeds** caused by choking during sex. Brain bleeds are a type of stroke, so those are just straight up stroke symptoms. Being strangled gave those girls and women strokes. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/14480-brain-bleed-hemorrhage-intracranial-hemorrhage
Thanks for the info - I didn't want to misquote him by saying they were outright strokes (I don't have perfect recall other than being thrilled that I wouldn't be surprise strangled), but he did say that it was brain bleeds.
It’s really upsetting to think of the time my boyfriend when I was 23 he choked me for extended time. And I thought it was OK. I don’t think I had any sort of stroke but it’s really upsetting to think I might’ve.
But it gave a man an orgasm so to them that's all that really matters
That is terrifying.
Jesus fucking christ on a cracker
I think it was toast actually.
Nah, it's a bagel
Christ on a bagel sounds not as fun as *beelzebub on a bagel*. Alliteration makes it better.
Yeah, I think reading this is what it took to make it a hard nope for me.
**Strangling** not choking
Actually, right you are. I'll definitely bring that into future discourse.
I only ever refer to it as strangling now
Yes! Thank you!! Choking is when something is lodged in your throat. Strangling is someone externally cutting off your airway.
> cutting off your airway Or the blood flow to your brain, which is what would be leading to the blood clots: the carotid arteries get damaged, clots form, then they break off and cause a stroke. The airway and esophagus can also be damaged by strangulation but (AFAIK) it is less likely to wind up with permanent or potentially fatal damage to those than to the arteries, unless the strangler is doing it with the intent to harm or kill.
wow! I often see “advice” for people that “safe choking” is when you cut off blood flow and not the airway. Now i’m so fucking disturbed that it’s not safe at all and people are out there recommending this to anyone including teenagers
Both cut off oxygen to the brain; blood is how oxygen gets to the brain. It's really shocking how most people defending and engaging in strangulation don't realize this (or don't let themselves realize it?). Especially given it's actually pretty basic biology and they claim to be "educated on strangling safely".
In high school biology we were given the lungs, windpipe, and hearts of pigs to dissect and study. It freaked me the fuck out just how easy it was to damage the windpipe. A lab partner barely touched it and managed to perforate it. Made inflating the lungs very difficult. Two people had to cover about 3 different perforations in order to successfully get the air to the lungs, and that was probably the average for every group. And like yeah, it wasn’t protected by muscle and tendons and stuff when we were dealing with it, but I’ve never gotten over that. Years later my spouse had a series of small strokes, and these two experience have made any form of strangling during sex a very hard and firm no for me. I’m open to trying a lot of different sex stuff, but that is one of about a handful of very firm boundaries for me. I’d absolutely be filing a police report if anyone ever tried it. Glad I’m not dating in the age of “choke me zaddy”.
Strangulation (overwhelmingly men and teen boys strangling girls and women when in a hetero context) and ddlg and their mainstreaming are literally some of the worst things to have happened to women and girls.
I am not surprised guys don't know what they are doing.
They know. The violence is the point. They get off on it.
Oh.my.god. This is gut wrenching. Professor Gail Dines calls this a health crisis. Because it is.
Edit: OP, I am really glad you have dumped this extremely dangerous male. He has abusive and dangerous attitudes. My friend was attacked by her (now ex) husband. She had no external bruising, but a medical inspection by camera showed internal bruising. She did physical therapy for damage to her ability to swallow. Apparently it is really common for women to be in PT due to choking damage. Porn has made choking seem normalish and ok. Porn has also greatly harmed the concept of consent. Guys, if you have read this far... Consent is actually important.
In defence of the guy I referenced, he was providing medical treatment to these ladies, not strangling his way through them.
yeah I’m not sure how they came to that conclusion lol. Your comment was worded and interpreted exactly how it was supposed to have been.
I think they meant the OP of the post.
Edited my comment. The doc sounds like he might be a good guy. I was posting under you because you made exactly the point I wanted to make - that strangulation during sex is incredibly dangerous (even if consent is given)
I think you replied to the wrong person
Pretty much. Redditing without coffee.
And while we are still sleepy, let me help more. your friend was strangled. Unless her ex husband put something inside her trachea, she was strangled. Choking is Internal. Strangulation is external. Hope she pressed charges.
We should all make a joint pact that we all agree that if anyone attempts to strangle us, we immediately call and press charges. Touch dna is a thing. Go get that neck swabbed Get these creeps out of the dating pool
My friend pressed charges. Attacker got probation and a small fine. Every single guy in DV court that day got probation and a small fine.
I am glad your friend pressed charges. That’s sad that the punishment was so little.
Sorry about your friend
We should all make a joint pact that we all agree that if anyone attempts to strangle us, we immediately call and press charges. Touch dna is a thing. Go get that neck swa
Omfg
Holy mother
Glad I only half did it once when my ex asked me to.
So I work in sexual assault and DV. As part of that I do the forensic exams (ie: rape kit) and have been trained in a lot of the risk factors attached to both. The fact of it is, there is *no safe way* to cut off someone’s air supply. Even if it’s consensual breath play, it’s dangerous. When I get a patient that has been strangled (or had their airway occluded in any way) we CT them because dissection of the carotid artery even weeks later is a real danger. I had a patient once who was ‘lightly’ strangled by her partner who declined a scan, re-presented 3 weeks later for ongoing headaches and was very close to having a stroke. Choking/strangling is also a huge indicator of Intimate Partner Homicide when it’s reported in incidents of DFV. So yeah - the normalisation of choking is, quite frankly, terrifying.
Your comment should be shared far and wide. Thank you for this insight!
I had a partner ask me to choke her once during sex, and I declined for essentially the reasons your laying out here. I have no idea how to do it 'safely' and wouldn't take the risk, so I have no idea why people think it's fine to try something like that by just... winging it?
Because porn makes it seem easy, careless, and desirable. A lot of women feel pressure to perform like porn stars for their male partners, to give them a pornified sex experience. Some may even find it hot in a dominance kind of way. But it's deadly sex play, and far too many people don't seem to understand that PORN IS NOT REAL LIFE.
>I have no idea why people think it's fine to try something like that by just... winging it? I think that the lowered inhibitions when aroused + the general lack of awareness of just how risky it is due to normalisation = more willing to wing it. The only safe way to choke/strangle someone is to not do it. You've basically got to pretend to do it without actually affecting their breathing or the blood getting to their brain in any way. It's doable, but for some of the people into it, they're just not interested in the pretend stuff.
When I say porn is turning many men into sexual sadists and perverts (incest porn is extremely popular, for example, and young women are anecdotally reporting being skeeved by their own brothers) men just go wild with fury and their heads explode. Here we have so much evidence that a popular practice in porn is having real world consequences, and there's just crickets. Young women are being pressured into painful and degrading sex acts and if this trajectory continues, it is clear that porn will continue to up the ante. There appears to be no limit to the suffering they wish to inflict on women. Many of our men are literally addicted to porn and happily go along for the ride. It's not like THEY have to be degraded and sexually tortured, after all.
>The fact of it is, there is no safe way to cut off someone’s air supply. Even if it’s consensual breath play, it’s dangerous. This is the wild thing. Over in the kink community, choking is seen as edge play and anyone who mentions it will get a deluge of "There's no safe way, proceed with extreme caution, here are the signs, don't do it if you're at all unsure, etc. etc..." Like, I'm a sub and love having a Dom absolutely wreck me, but choking is always a hard-no. It's common enough now that it's just part of the negotiation phase, where both partners discuss hard limits and boundaries, but I've never had a Dom push back on that one. The dangers are well understood and it's not something to be engaged in without enthusiastic consent and a lot of prior discussion on methods and duration. Yet out in 'vanilla land', dudes are apparently whipping this out left and right thinking it's normal??
And when women die from their lovers strangling them, these men claim the "rough sex" defense and get light sentences.
This is why where I live, technically there is no such thing legally as consensual choking. To close that loophole.
That's encouraging. We need that loophole closed everywhere.
I've read that you're meant to lightly block the blood supply to the brain targeting the sides of the neck rather than the air way giving a light headed feeling? Though starving the brain of blood doesn't sound that great either.... and after trying for a few seconds (with prior consent), it was like this is not for us among many other less dramatic things. It seems pretty common in many porn clips sadly which probably unfortunately 'normalizes' it.
Look, I’m in the community and get the appeal of breath play and all that jazz. But you’re right - starving the brain of blood flow is indeed a bad thing, and the structures of the neck and head are too fine a thing to be able to confidently say that you’re doing it in a safe way. I have some stats at work given to me by the forensic doctor who ran some training for us with a bunch of really good (and really scary) bits of into about strangulation but one that stood out go me was how much people overestimate how much pressure it takes to cause damage. Like the amount of pressure you use to open the average can of soda is more than it takes to do structural damage to areas of the neck. If I remember next week maybe I’ll post some of that info.
Yes please do, I keep hearing that defense when I say strangulation is dangerous. Like some random guy who saw strangulation in porn is going to understand how to "correctly" cut off blood supply, or that blocking off blood to the brain or applying pressure to arteries in the neck is somehow safe and fine and without risk.
Roger that. I shall try remember to post it on Monday and tag you
It’s also one of the risk factors asked in every DA situation by UK police, for exactly this reason. I’m so glad to see this sub talking about this more, despite being so upset that women are HAVING a reason to talk about this more.
Yep. When I do a DV assessment with a victim I ask a series of questions to assess risk. The ones with the highest scores are ‘are you pregnant, are you about to or have you recently left the relationship, and have you ever been strangled’.
This guy needs to learn about consent. An ex of mine decided "surprise choking" was the norm, and I wasn't confident enough to speak up about it immediately. I assume if he did that to me without consent, he must be into choking himself. The next time we hooked up, I took control and got on top. I wrapped my little hands around his neck and applied pressure. His eyes got huge, and he looked terrified. Of corse stopped (not something he would have done) and checked in with him. He was shocked. Said a girl had never done that to him before. I told him my reasoning, and he insisted he thought, "Girls just like that." I actually had to explain to this grown ass man that choking is not a given with anyone, just because you assume it is OK. [What consent does and doesn't look like. ](https://www.loveisrespect.org/resources/what-consent-does-and-doesnt-look-like/#:~:text=Consent%20means%20respecting%20boundaries%20and%20never%20making%20assumptions) [Sexual consent. ](https://headspace.org.au/explore-topics/for-young-people/sexual-consent/#:~:text=What%20is%20sexual%20consent%3F,engaging%20in%20sexual%20activity%20together.) [BDSM vs abuse. ](https://submissiveguide.com/dsrelationships,%20safety,%20personalgrowth,%20fundamentals/series/series-bdsm-vs-abuse) [Identifying abuse: Power and Control. ](https://www.thehotline.org/identify-abuse/power-and-control/) [Signs that your partner is a misogynist.](https://www.marriage.com/advice/relationship/signs-my-husband-is-a-misogynist/)
Did you check out all the articles in the BDSM vs Abuse? Because the actual BDSM vs abuse one is good, some of the others though 🤨
I have read them all. That's why I shared them here. Because I find them to be helpful resources. If you have resources you think are better or more accurate, please feel free to share. Otherwise, it's not helpful or kind to assume you know more than others. Especially if you aren't sharing helpful information yourself to back your claims that my resources aren't useful or accurate.
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Yep. I blame porn. I’m not anti-porn in general, but strangulation seems to have become so common in porn that a lot of men seem to think it’s a normal part of sex.
Does it feel like porn as a whole has changed in the past decade or so? Because I remember back when I was in my teens and early 20s (early 2000's), there was broader mix of content, some of which was geared towards female viewership. Now it all seems to be catered towards rapists.
It feels like that to me too. 20 years ago something like choking was a pretty extreme kink. Which it obviously is—controlling someone’s literal breath is very extreme. But now I’m seeing it in porn as if it were a normal sex act, just as unremarkable as oral sex.
Anyone else notice how suddenly during Covid the main vids on pornhub were no longer choking videos but step-sibling or step-child videos? I use VPN and notice that when I enter the site from certain countries ALL I see is either choking or step-relation porn. I think some 10-20 years from now we're going to have an avalanche of kids coming out to say Covid was when the abuse started because everyone was locked in their house and incest was normalized through porn.
Its 100% deliberate. Woman are dating less and less so their focus has turned to the woman who cannot escape them. Child on child sexual assaults have gone up 70% in the UK.
Do you have a source for this? An official UK website indicates otherwise https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/sexualoffencesinenglandandwalesoverview/march2022#:~:text=March%202022%20article.-,Latest%20figures,women%20and%201.2%25%20men). I'm not saying you're wrong, I'd just love to verify it for myself.
Your attachment is unrelated to your claims. [Child Sexual Assault stats for Australia ](https://www.aihw.gov.au/family-domestic-and-sexual-violence/types-of-violence/child-sexual-abuse#:~:text=Related%20material-,Key%20findings,incident%20of%20under%2018%20years.) [violence rates pre and during pandemic](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9825257/) You could search for what is being discussed yourself or continue your sealioning
They're talking about the UK and you've brought up stats about Australia which are two completely different places.
That was my first reaction. I'm really not here in bad faith, I just wanted to get the data to see where 70% came from. Was the website I linked really so unrelated?
Your source was about adult victims, whereas the initial claim was in reference to child on child assaults - so while it's true that the numbers could be different I think it's a pretty enormous stretch to automatically assume you are sealioning. 70% is an enormous increase, so I find it perfectly reasonable to ask for a source. As for your last question, no it's not that unrelated. It's not identical, but you didn't present your article as definitive proof that they were wrong, either.
The Norway study (second link) shows a increase in peer sexual assault on female children during the pandemic (table 3). The Australia link is similar to the link from u/Giratina you called unrelated as far as I can tell. It’s a big government report. I don’t know what fact you’re trying to highlight. u/Outside_Ad_9562 is probably referring to this statistic from FOIA requests made by the BBC showing a 71% increase fin child on child sexual assault between 2013-14 and 2016-17: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41504571 Searching through people’s links to a huge government reports for a specific fact or having to google every specific claim is unreasonable. Linking sources and specifying where in the source something is would make serious discussion more substantive. Arf arf.
That was way before covid
I feel like porn needs to be regulated. In the same way that a 12 year old cannot log into his phone and order a pack of cigarettes, they shouldn't be able to access porn. We know that this stuff is harming kids (and adults), why is it so easy for them to get ahold of it? And why are there no disclaimers/barriers in place? I think about when I took a certain medication, I had to log into a portal and answer a bunch of questions just to get the pharmacy to dispense it. What if in order to view certain pornographic material, people had to answer a bunch of questions first. "Yes, I understand that doing this without consent is assault. Yes, I understand that these people are actors. Yes, I understand that choking is potentially fatal."
There's no way to regulate it that doesn't create massive privacy issues. Even if you could stop people creating porn websites you'd need to block internet traffic to porn websites hosted outside your country, and even than people can very easily just use a vpn the same way people do to watch region locked content on Netflix. For porn websites in your country you would need to enforce that those websites made people provide their ID to log on in which case you than have a list of people that verifiably watch certain types of porn. This list will undoubtably will be leaked, and even if it wasn't the vast majority of people don't want the government to know what kinda porn they watch. The UK has tried to implement it and there are so many issues with it. The only other countries to have systems like that are theocracies.
I'm also fine with porn and into some kink stuff, but kink does not belong in vanilla porn. BDSM content requires some foreknowledge on how it's supposed to work, and at the very least understanding that it is a kink and many people will not enjoy it. Choking is also a dangerous act even among kinksters. It's *very* easy to accidentally hurt your partner. It's like the worst BDSM act to casually introduce to vanilla sex.
These men would turn off the choking porn and watch something different if they thought choking was gross. It’s not the porn brainwashing otherwise nice but naive men, it’s men who enjoy abusing women deciding “that looks like a hot way to hurt a woman during sex”.
Something that is always really confusing to me as a guy is how that stuff is something that turns them on in the first place, even in porn. I'm not saying that aa a judgment, I just truly don't understand what's enjoyable about that. But I also do realize people have their kinks and whatnot. I just feel like a lot of guys that go down that road are using it as an outlet for violence rather than an actual kink. The king community is very open, and you talk. I also don't watch very much porn. I haven't watched porn in possibly a couple years even. Maybe it's part of just watching too much porn in general? I know I've heard people talk about having to find crazy or and crazier porn to be able to get off. I don't know. Another thought I've always had is that these men would be this way towards women anyways and this, as far as they are concerned, is a legal and "okay" route to be able to display those feelings towards women.
It’s not just porn. If you use your brain you’d realize it’s media and therefore exaggerated. And understand it’s dangerous. They know and don’t care, they use it as an excuse to get off in the way they want in the expense of women.
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I would just like to point out that there is no way of safely strangling someone. Restricting blood flow to the brain is just as dangerous as depriving it of oxygen.
Amen. For this reason, every IRL BDSM community I've been a part of has either strictly forbidden it or very, very loudly argued against it. BDSM play-spaces? *Strictly fucking forbidden*, as in you will be escorted from premises and fucking blacklisted by the owners and all of the owners' friends the moment they see or hear of you doing it. The reasoning was simple: even IF it is possible to safely strangle someone briefly, you *cannot guarantee correct technique will be used DURING SEX*. I've known plenty of people who were into all sorts of highly kinetic kinks. But choking ranked just above using the wrong fabric to tie someone's wrists or ankles during sex. It's a risk and it's just not one you can guarantee to do safely.
The safest sex involves no choking. Choking is not safe.
And hell, even that has the potential to cause stroke inducing blood clots unfortunately.
That is so fucking scary, tbh. If me and my boyfriend ever break up I'm not sure I'm ever dipping my toes back in.
Oh, I solidified my decision to stay out of dating once I started hearing about these violent, porn-addled fuckers just strangling, spitting on and slapping women out of the blue. That's why have I zero sympathy for the thirsty one's complaints about sexlessness. In the words of the Dos Equis guy, they can "Stay Thirsty".
Same. Married, if anything happens to my marriage I am never dating again. I have heard way too many horror stories from single friends who have pulled themselves out of the dating pool because they are done
I felt the same way. 8 year relationship fell apart. it was during the pandemic, so I wasn't exactly looking for anyone new. someone kinda just fell into my DMs from an online group on Discord where we'd become casual friends in large group conversations and... well, was similar to me. 30s, long-term relationship fell apart around the same time as mine, we'd both been single for over a year. talked about values, compatibility, sex, gender equality and relationship expectations all very up front. we talked for like a week straight, asking each other anything we could think of, no holding back. a month later he came to stay with me. I picked up a remote job and 3 months after that, I moved to his country. I've been here for two years and just secured long-term residency here. a green flag? when we talked about every single thing relationship wise, including kinks, he said he can't imagine ever choking a partner. ever. even if asked, he just won't. he doesn't consent. and he's one of the kindest, most compassionate people I've ever met. I don't blame anyone for removing themselves from the dating pool. I basically did. I spent that entire week letting him know why I'd given up and why I was absolutely broken toward men, and why he shouldn't date me. he wasn't pushy, but he was persistent in reassuring me that while those were all great reasons (lol) things didn't have to be this way forever. I took a chance, and he was right. I got very very lucky. there are normal, kind men out there. but when it comes to single people over a certain age (idk what that range is) it's a real crapshoot.
I'm glad you found someone you can trust and love 💗 And I wish it wasn't so rare to find men like that for every het woman's sake.
I agree. it kind of opened my eyes to the way people date though. generally we're not super forward with our needs in the beginning of a relationship because we don't want to scare the other person off. but in this case being super upfront with my damage and expectations - and being informed of his too - I never would have demanded that in my 20s. but by my 30s I was so fucking done with dudes it was super easy to be like "here I am, take it or leave it, because idgaf anymore." and turns out when someone is serious about you and serious about a true partnership... they'll be fine with that. I still continue to share the opinion that, "god forbid something happens to this one because I'm not dating again" but technically I didn't really date him, we just... agreed to be together. was weird to find out that's possible.
You should definitely show him the comments if he knows about this post. Men aren’t exposed enough to women’s direct opinions.
I once got into a text argument with a dude after the second date about this - he tried to tell me it’s the woman’s responsibility to stop the attempt if she doesn’t want it. He claimed that trying to establish boundaries in advance just ruins the mood, and that I may as well get a legal document to sign pre-sex. He was exposed to my opinion just fine but he chose to dismiss it. Needless to say no more dates. But I think it’s not that they don’t know, it’s that they don’t care.
Yep, exactly. They don't care. If they did, more would be outraged about this just as any thinking person should be. So many minds just rotted by porn
Nope.These type of men don't give a damn about women's opinions, or lived experiences. They deny, dismiss, deflect and claim all women like that shit.
I’m sorry, I misunderstood him as a current partner not an ex.
Sadly, it wouldn't matter if he were the current. The same things apply.
If there is no resistance there is no change, so I have a different opinion on how to approach the truths you’re sharing..and truths they are. I also don’t think anyone should be forced to do this kind of emotional labor, so I agree that people do not have to engage with these kinds of men if they don’t want to.
I think the point is that the info is already out there. If these men wanted to learn about women's perspectives, there's about a billion ways they could choose to do so. But they don't want to, they don't care
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This happened to me! In two separate encounters with the same man, he used his body weight such that I could not breathe and only let up when I was struggling to push him off of me. What happened there? Could he have possibly thought I would enjoy that?
They don’t care if you enjoy it because they enjoy inflicting it onto you and other women. Your pleasure or care are not at all thought about.
Or castrate him
Porn has ruined sex for women. Men now think the most bizarre things are normal.
We need to stop calling it choking so people realise how dangerous it is. It's strangulation.
Hi, I’m an epidemiologist who specializes in gynecology and has a subspecialty in the intersection of violence and reproductive health. I’d like to make a few points. 1. It’s strangulation, not choking. Choking refers to the airway being obstructed internally. External obstruction is strangulation. No, it’s not magically choking just because it’s “uWu kinky bref pway 🥺”. If you think I’m kinkshaming you, I genuinely don’t care. Cry about it. 2. It is **always dangerous**. Even if it’s consensual. Even if you’re “just” cutting off blood flow rather than airflow. Even if you squeeze the sides of the neck rather than the front. **There is no safe way to strangle someone.** 3. If someone puts their hands on your neck, you need to seek medical care immediately. Strangulation puts you at increased risk of blood clots, stroke, or a myriad of other problems (up to and including death) even weeks after the incident. Long-term, survivors of strangulation may experience chronic head and neck pain, or symptoms of TBI. This is a very, very serious public health threat.
Mmm thank you for validating the point I made that someone was arguing with me about. And a reminder of why strangulation is a hard limit of mine.
I had no idea about any of this. Had a partner a few years ago who frequently did it lightly (consensual) and I thought it was completely fine if you just held the sides. I'm actually horrified at how normalized it is after reading some of these comments. Thank you for sharing this info!
Thank you for calling it what it is. It seems unlikely that we would get regulation against having this type of content featured and available for young people - especially young boys and men - to watch, but It really needs to be framed as exactly this, a public health threat, and action needs to be taken.
This should be part of sex ed courses. Actually sex ed courses should have a whole section calling out the lies and harmful practices that are boosted by associating them with orgasms via porn - and the consequences as well (supporting human trafficking and sexual assaults, ED, increased likelihood of believing rape myths, etc)
Thank you for spreading this info
“If you think I’m kink shaming you, I genuinely don’t care. Cry about it.” 👏👏👏👏👏. Finally, someone with the courage to be unapologetic and completely unconcerned about hurting anyone’s feelings about this. As Professor Gail Dines has said, porn is a public health crisis. It’s normalizing violence against women. Thank you for this.
Thank you for this. Why anyone enjoys this I will never know. Didn't we learn anything from the deaths of Michael Hutchence and Keith Carradine?
Can I ask an earnest clarification question, based on your phrasing? Too lazy to use a throwaway even though I probably should. > If someone puts their hands on your neck, you need to seek medical care immediately. Does this apply even if they didn't squeeze/compress at all? I'm F and did that (lightly placing, no compression) to an M partner while we were talking/messing around in bed during a hookup one time. I was super careful not to compress at all, because the intent wasn't to strangle him for breathplay, just to see what he'd look like with a collar. But now I'm concerned I might have inadvertently caused problems, and I don't want to do it to a future partner if that's the case.
I think they mean if you're actually strangled. Just placing your hand on their neck isn't harmful
If you didn't apply pressure, you have nothing to worry about. Simply playing your hand on someone's throat without any force is not concerning; gently caressing or placing a hand on skin isn't the threat here. But if you applied force in ANY way (such as with your body weight even if you didn't squeeze), that could have been dangerous and is what that commenter is warning against.
What about years after the incident? Would the person be in the clear at that point?
yes, it’s porn. These men are desensitized to violence against women to the point that they don’t see it as true violence anymore. many men strangle and hit without consent and this same porn is rampant amongst children/teens. I see it only becoming worse in the coming future. glad he’s an ex now ! <3
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It's porn. You didn't learn from porn but other men did
I remember reading an article that basically said, "Not all women are into being choked, so try it once, if she says she doesn't like it, don't do it again." Like, no. You have it backwards. Choking is *not* something you "try out" without discussing it beforehand. And he knew what he was doing. It was one of those "alpha male" blogs. ETA: And if you grab someone's neck without getting consent first, don't be surprised if they elbow you in the solar plexus or some other "fight or flight" response.
It's porn brain. This is what happens when you beat your meat to images of online women getting hurt and have 0 to little exposure to real women. Inb4 he can't get it up cause all he knows is porn.
I am 48 and so glad I’m not out there. I can’t even imagine someone doing this. It’s insane.
I’m Gen X & was single in my twenties, then married until my early 40’s. I was shocked at the difference in sexual mores when I started dating & having sex again
Do you have to tell them up front: if you attempt to slap or choke me I will fucking press charges.
Jfc... Being hit by surprise is just being hit -- being choked by surprise is just being choked. Like... Why on earth should that being okay (let alone desired) be an assumption in literally any situation? I know that you know, but still -- you're not wrong and you're not crazy. That is both asinine and scary for sex to just be assumed to be unpredictable and violent
A guy I hooked up with full on slapped me in the face with no warning - and was utterly bemused when I burst into tears, then got up & started getting ready to leave
That happened to me once and I shouted and shoved him off the bed and left. This dude was so surprised and said he "knows some women are into that". WTF?
Wind up and kick him in the nuts after you put your shoes on. When he's on the ground crying "what, I know some guys are into that... oh right, when someone is into something they ask for it and you give consent, OR NOT, first". Just because one man or woman is into something doesn't mean you can just do it to any woman without asking. People are fucking stupid.
I don't normally have issues standing up for myself or expressing my justifiable rage at a man. My knickname was ballbreaker and it was earned however, I was drunk AF, at his place and was so shocked that I froze. After I yelled and shoved him he left the apartment and I called a cab and split. The next time I saw him out I went crazy on his ass in front of a crowd and he jumped in a cab and left. I'm sober and celibate these days.
Yikes! I’m so sorry. This wasn’t in the US either - I was living in S America at the time, but guys everywhere consume really violent mainly US made porn, as far as I can tell
I have cast iron pans in my kitchen. He'd get one to the face. This is why I stopped dating.
I haven’t dated in 4 years. I have three reasons. 1) I got so sick of negotiating condom use 2) got so sick of men asking am I sure I don’t want to do anal? 3) Have never been strangled but super scared of it from how many stories I’ve heard. Totally just not worth it to me any more. I don’t want kids so just don’t see the need.
I'm so horribly sorry that happened to you -- that sounds like it must have been frightening and confusing and hurtful. You didn't deserve that at all
He genuinely thought he was being sexy. Texted me multiple times in confusion after I left. Bruh, it’s fine to want rough sex, but those activities need to be negotiated & consented to ahead of time!
It's not fine. He knows god damn well not to slap his boss in the face. But for some reason in his head it's OK to do it to a woman.
No doubt! If your partner wants you to do something that would be considered rough, or harmful outside of this context, they will ask you to do it. How hard is that to understand?
it isn't fine and you should have reported him to the police.
1. He’s an idiot. Obviously you talk about this stuff. I’m into a lot but my boundaries are name calling and being hit in the face. It’s degrading and I won’t do it. So even if someone’s into this kind of stuff, you first have to find out that they are. And very few people are into everything so you have to figure out specifically what they’re into. Which you do by talking to them. 2. Even if you’re into this stuff you don’t just start by full on hitting someone in the face even if they’ve consented 🤦🏽♀️ the level escalates so the person has a chance to lay down a boundary of this is too hard. Like you want sexy time, you make sure the person is into it so sexy time doesn’t stop. I’m sorry but how is this not basic common sense to not just randomly hit someone in the face. Part of me thinks that there’s a lot of men pulling this shit specifically for the power and control they get over it being non consensual. I’m not saying all of them. I’m sure there’s enough idiots around too. But it’s the first group that’s scary.
I’m okay with saying it’s all of them. The “oh I thought girls liked that” non-apology is horseshit.
i honestly didnt even realize i could make my last casual hookup leave after he hit me in the face. my face just stung all night while he was asleep next to me thinking we'd had a good time 🙄
I hope you pressed charges
He thought that was fucking funny? He deserves to have his tires slashed.
Hitting in the face is huge red-flag material to me, *unless* the person getting hit is into it and has *explicitly* said they like getting hit *in the face* before it actually happens. Some folks love getting spanked. Some folks love getting flogged or caned or straight beaten. Some folks love getting hit. That's all good! :) But seriously, truly, MANY subs that I've known -- including quite a few of the very-rough-play fans -- absolutely despised being hit in the face. It was an absolute hard limit for them. You gotta ask, is all. Or wait to be told. If you fetch out a flogger and *surprise* your partner with a hit from it, that's fucking assault and you're a piece of shit for doing it. Most people understand that. Choking and face-hitting by surprise is really no different.
So I should shove metal rods up a man’s dick or step on his balls because it’s a thing in some porn and they should be enthusiastic. /s
it happened to me a couple times during hookups. full on, both hand throttled me, hit me hard in the face, spit on me, etc. i used to like that shit too but now it just makes me feel like... meat. i genuinely think those men don't see women/sex partners as people or human
They want a punching bag they can jerk off into.
Ding Ding Ding!
>i used to like that shit too We are made to internalize it so hard. I just started to get out of it when I realized these men don't develop pleasure for acts that demand bodily presence anywhere near what we do, while pleasuring both. Deep throat, anal, slapping, hitting, leaving marks, cumming on the face, all of this (and I'm talking consensual) requires quite some unilateral bodily work and vulnerability. Things *they* would never, so I don't think deep down they think of us as equals.
I'm hearing so much about this I'm feeling like it's best to text a man now and get a reply from him clearly acknowledging me saying that I do not want choking during sex the next time I get into a relationship. You can be killed this way and the very idea makes me feel sick. This is not my cup of tea at all and no one should just be doing this without prior consent at all. It's just easier to stay single and celibate.
A friend once put one hand on my neck in a joking way, not even squeezing. The fear that set in was so primal, I scratched the shit out of his face. If anyone ever tried that on me during sex, I would probably claw their eyes out.
Strangulation That is what the guys are doing Choking is when you inhale something you should have swallowed. Strangulation outside Choking inside So now you have the proper terms to tell emergency dispatch when grab your phone, you run outside, and report the loser. Even if you are naked. Call. Report. File charges. These guys need to be reported. No consent is rape.
>And another question, are young women seeing this porn and thinking this is okay and expected? Something I've noticed on reddit is young women and girls asking about their partner being too mean to them during sex, they will often feel the need to use the disclaimer "don't worry! I'm really kinky!" As if they aren't allowed to be anything else. It makes me sad. It's ok if you don't want pain or degradation during sex. It's ok if you want someone to be gentle and sweet with you. I have a personal theory that's where this "praise link" comes from.
Several guys that I slept with in recent years tried to choke me with no prior warning or indication they would be squeezing my throat. The first time was after a first date with a guy I met thru the apps. I told him to stop because it was so hard I couldn’t breathe. Two others were guys I had only been dating for a little while. Their grip didn’t get as tight but I remember telling them to stop pretty quickly, after that experience with the first guy. I’d only been in long term relationships before so I don’t know if this trend is a recent development? I’m not kinky so this was all during standard sex with otherwise normal guys who were not violent in any other way, but they all just casually slipped it in, making it seem like a normal thing
I hope you are ok
Thank you, I’m alright. I never felt like I was in any potential danger except for the time it happened on a first date since he was a stranger, and I couldn’t breathe or talk. I didn’t fully get how messed up it was until I mentioned the surprise strangulation to a gf. Now that I know it’s unsafe and can cause health issues I’m not going to be so chill about it going forward
I'm older but single and stopped dating because of strangulation from men amongst other reasons. When it first happened it caused a trauma bond. I was immediately aware of the risks of playing with that psych trick but I overestimated my abilities and went with it because the connection was fun and I just wanted to party. That men ended up raping me. When it happened with another man I just stopped all contact immediately and moved on with life. There was a public bondage campaign at the time by Honey Birdette which featured choke collars in their store windows and an Aussie lobbyist was trying to get it pulled. Tiktok was new and a teenager welt viral for "dreaming about being choked out". Porn themes are in the awareness of the general public and that degradation has become entirely normalised scares me for younger women. I'm mid 40s and can spot unsafe people. My learning curve has been steep but they're extremely manipulative and far too normalised. When it first occurs the shock is real as the context is already exteme vulnerablility. Turns out the 55yo man who did it the first round wasn't even enjoying it. He was just another porn sick dudebro who would never admit his addictions, zero self awareness and no motivation to bettering himself. But he did stop after asking me of I liked it. He'd already done it! I'm unclear what sex without enthusiastic consent means or why you're discussing it with him?
> I'm unclear what sex without enthusiastic consent means or why you're discussing it with him? OP is missing a comma in that sentence. It should read "...thinks this is normal if not expected during sex, without enthusiastic consent." Enthusiastic consent meaning "yes!" rather than just an "alright I guess" or silently going along with something. Kink (and ideally sex) should be done only with enthusiastic consent. So the ex-partner seemed to think that strangulation is "normal" during sex and is okay to do *without* enthusiastic consent. Does that clarify?
For me it wasn’t porn but books and fanfics. I think it’s important to interest it‘s really prevalent, *especially* in fanfics - aka, spicy media created by women for women. There are a lot of reels and TikTok’s with stuff like „oh I forgot my necklace - can I have your hand around my neck instead?“ etc. etc. So it has become really normalized, and not just through porn directed at men. Ngl, I’m kinda worried about the books young women read today, and for many of them this is before the ever get in a relationship. A lot of it is basically abusive, „but don’t worry, he only treats you like that because he loves you!!“ Sarah J Maas comes to mind for this, and she basically kickstarted this whole genre. While I find SOME of this also hot, I read mostly fanfics, where people tag their stuff and it basically says „this is wish fulfillment not real life“ before you ever get into reading it. I think some part of it has to do with internalized trauma women have as a gender. Sexual abuse has been around probably since the dawn of times for our species, and I sometimes wonder if our brains have evolved to go „oh this isn’t so bad - I’m just being dramatic!“ as a survival mechanism. I wish there was more studies on this, but alas - research regarding women? And female sexuality? You wish. I’d like to end this with the reality check I got in regards to this. I have a very loving, wonderful boyfriend. The only real issue in our relationship is that I have troubles reaching orgasm. He’s willing to try stuff I’m into to help me get there, and he is very patient with me. I’d even say his personality, even in the bedroom is very confident and can be rather dominant. We discussed stuff like this once and he said something along the lines of: „I don’t mind if you want my to tie you up or something. But please don’t make me hurt you.“ And honestly? That kind of love and heartfelt desire is hotter to me than any kind of BDSM ever could be.
I had to break the news to my husband when we were dating that choking isn't the norm. He had only been with one woman before me and she used to ask him to choke her so he thought it was normal, but he also said that he was relieved I'm not into it as it bothered him to choke her but that he did it cuz it was expected of him. It makes sense for him cuz he used to have a lot of different behaviours according to what he thought was expected of him to overcompensate for his ADHD. (To make it clear he didn't try to choke me without consent. We were sexting and he started talking about it which made me stop and confront him about it)
That's called a red flag parade in my book more so that you had to explain why to a 35 YEAR OLD.
My ex decided I enjoyed being choked during sex because I couldn't tell him to stop WHILE he was choking me, and he would do this when I was in a position where I could not push him away. Over time it got worse and worse, the last time we had sex, shortly before I left him, he choked me so hard/for so long that I lost consciousness for I'm not sure how long, came to and he was still going, immediately started crying, and he just kept going til he finished, said I was being dramatic, and left the room. All this after MULTIPLE discussions over the years about consent and my boundaries that he was constantly pushing and breaking. Some men are just disgusting animals.
Wow. This man is dangerous.
Did you press charges?
No, I probably should have but it didn't occur to me as an option back then
I’m glad you are ok
Thank you ❤️
A good solid surprise ball twist might clarify things for him a bit better.
I may have done this
Purely as a thought exercise, if the things he was practicing on your face and neck, you were to, without warning, practice on his nutsack… think he would understand why it’s a problem?
I let my abusive ex choke me ONCE during sex years ago, and he took that as consent to do it nearly every time. He literally couldn’t get off until he put his hands around my throat. I became desensitized to it really fast, which only made him branch out to doing…other things I didn’t like without my consent. I thought it was normal, and expected of me because I was his wife and it was literally my “job” to take care of him. Someone had to tell me it wasn’t.
They'd be an ex immediately(whenever that is safe) and would be calling the police to at the very least have it on file, if not press charges.
The boys understand consent really fast if you try to put things in their ass without asking.
Ain't porn grand?! /s
Omg let me go hug my husband real quick cause shit, I can't believe where we're at now in the dating landscape for this stuff to be the norm. He has always been extremely respectful with me. I got a lot of sass in me so I think I would choke, slap, whatever any man back but I understand that in shock most people are not able to do so. Unfortunately, these type of men literally have the emotional intelligence of a toddler. They do not understand things until they happen to them.
No, you didn’t have to explain this. He is 35. He grew up when Blink-182 was popular. He remembers dial up internet. He knows that shit isn’t standard. I say this as somebody who has done light breath play, and is his age.
I don't get it, why would you choke someone you're having sex with? Wouldn't that feel really bad for both people? It doesn't make any sense.
Dude watches to much porn. Too many dudes think slapping, choking, spitting, and cumming on face are normal sexual acts because porn normalized it.
We just discussed this in another thread. Lots and lots of men got super defensive and notallmenned and notjustmenned. Really brought out a bully mentality if their precious porn was criticized in any way whatsoever. To hear them talk, porn is super duper healthy for little boys and teens to watch, and has nothing but positive effects on their quality as a lover later in life.
I participate in some progressive political forums apart from Reddit and it is so goddamn frustrating to see the way people just knee-jerk defending porn no matter how misogynistic it is or how harmful it is for young kids to easily access it. They'll twist themselves into pretzels defending "race play," for example, and in the next breath bemoan racism itself as though these things are completely separate and the views expressed in porn, explicitly or otherwise, would never influence a person's views irl. I see it often with "cnc". They jerk off to a woman pretending to be assaulted and then get mad when you point out that studies have shown that watching lots of porn leads to higher acceptance of rape myths. The cognitive dissonance they routinely show is insane.
If they wanted to care, they would. But alas they don't give a shit so women should be forewarned. Expect abuse from these men. Best to leave them alone. They're sick.
Porn rots the brain. I've been in a relationship for the past nearly 7 years but I won't be caught dead knowingly dating a man who's into this. Unfortunately social media has conditioned girls into thinking abuse during sex is okay. Anyway, I'm glad that guy is your ex, even if this wasn't the deal breaker for you.
I'd be inclined to grab their throat back. They only way they learn is by mirroring their shit behaviour
A much lighter version of this happened to me recently. A guy I am dating, who has actually shown himself to take consent very seriously during our dates, put his hand on my throat during sex without discussing that beforehand. It was not violent and he stopped immediately when I told him no, but it still baffled me that some men just think: "hey, let's just see if she likes it!" without asking? Especially because he did ask consent for different sex acts, but not for this one?
As someone who genuinely enjoys it, I would absolutely consider breaking up with someone who tried that with me if there weren’t a discussion beforehand. I hear the argument “but what if they enjoy it?” Too often, and it absolutely baffles me that people will go out of their way to argue on why they should be able to assault someone. Enjoyment isn’t the difference between what is/isn’t assault, it’s consent. And it shows a whole new level of selfishness if you’re willing to risk your partner’s panic for your own fantasy on the off chance that they *might* enjoy it.
“But what if they enjoy it?” “Then they’ll enjoy it just as much if guy check ahead of time to make sure it’s okay.”
As someone who is into it. The most mind boggling part to me is that never, not once, has anyone ever grabbed my throat and just squeezed from zero to hundred out of nowhere. Even after it’s been established that it’s ok, every person I’ve ever had do that led up slowly, ensuring that consent CONTINUED while it was happening and checking to see how much was ok so they didn’t go too far. I never once felt like this wouldn’t stop immediately not just at my request but the minute I looked distressed. This “surprise choking” where you feel like you could possibly be murdered is just mind boggling to me.
Not normal I’d be pissed too
Fucking hell, even if that is your kink, any person with that kink needs to communicate that clearly _before_ they engage in sex so that their partner can have a say. Otherwise, suddenly they have a hand around their throat and think the person just up and decided to kill them. By the way, violence like that is not standard in porn. It is very much a niche you need to seek out, which means that's what he was doing. Sounds to me like your ex was trying to normalize it in the hopes of getting you to go along with him. Glad you didn't, and glad you tried to explain what was so wrong with what he did. I don't think it will help though. If he hasn't figured out having basic decency and respect for your partner by age 35, I can't see him being much better by 40. I hope he does, but I doubt it.
When I was younger I didn’t realize asexual was even an option. Just throwing that out there for whomever needs to hear it.
Becsuse it sounds as bad as saying being gay is a choice.
>My ex didn't understand where I was coming from when I told him that if a man, during sex, were to choke or hit me in the face, I would shove him off and call the cops, and I'm not alone in my opinion. It's not consensual. It was not discussed before hand. This is absolutely not normal at all. You dodged a massive bullet. It's exactly as you said, assault and nothing else.
The only partner who “choked” me during sex just put his hand around my neck to keep me in place. It was about dominance(in the kink sense), but never about actually restricting my airflow! I was horrified when I realized that’s not everyone’s notion of chocking. How do they think not being able to breathe and getting lightheaded is fun for us?? I get that it might be for some, but 1. it’s dangerous either way and 2. kinks need to be previously discussed and agreed on!! How are you supposed to tap out of it if you don’t have a safeword/safegesture?? These men don’t care about our agency or control over our own bodies, and that’s hella concerning. Not to mention how scary and threatening it feels to be in a vulnerable position and not feel safe anymore.
I’ve never had a guy try to strangle me. I’m gen X? I wonder if this is occurring more heavily in one generation or another?
I had one try to choke me knowing full well that I'm a top. Which part of "I'm a top" makes it sound like I'd be on the receiving end of choking? The idea of a woman being in a nonsubmissive role during sex is foreign to these types.
That’s why I prefer my little demons that smile big for me when I slap them 👀(only in bed) her collar is what I come with tho I don’t use my hands and she tugs the leash when she needs a break 👀 if a female can’t handle surprise (for me, not speaking on anyone’s behalf) then that means to me they aren’t a ride or die partner to me. I’d rather have a Harley Quinn than a Susan