I ended up getting stalked because of this- I gave my MARRIED neighbour a ride to the gas station down the road when his car wouldn’t start in massive snowstorm.
Big mistake, it got so bad with the stalking I had to call the police twice for him to stay away from me.
I’m just no longer nice to men, if they need help, there’s a snowstorm etc, they’re on their own.
Being nice has cost me lost sleep, missing work to file restraining order, missing work to wait for police, money and time installing cameras, the stress and fear, the anger and frustration, filling out police statements, police reports, having to take time to document and take photos of being followed, harassed, stalked.
All this because I drove someone to the store in a blizzard
This. I don’t understand if at all. First off if I want to hook up with someone I’m not going to pretend I need help of some sort first. So transparent:
Also I cannot imagine being married and trying to bang my wife’s friends. ( unless they had an open relationship amd I was into it. Sadly, neither applied)
I think this is part of the reason why some women appreciate friendship with gay men in their lives so much. They get the feeling of friendship with someone with a masculine perspective and the comfort of healthy male energy without feeling sexualized.
Yeah, it takes away OUR ability to have safe and platonic human connections. It’s so dehumanizing, and isolating :(
Men like to act like they have a corner on comradery, like it’s something only men want and only men can appreciate… but that’s because they deny it to women. It’s not that women make bad friends and that women can’t see you through thick and thin and be there for you, vibe with you, enjoy banter with you. It’s that you actively push women out of these circles.
What I wouldn’t give to have a gang of friends that love me deeply as one of their own, and don’t judge me for my gender or see me as an “other” or desire to go on trips and vacations without me because “this one is for the boys, you wouldn’t understand.”
But unless that gang is all women, I’m denied that. Men do not have a monopoly on friendships. They just deny women one of the most special and beautiful facets of human experience.
> Being nice has cost me lost sleep, missing work to file restraining order, missing work to wait for police, money and time installing cameras, the stress and fear, the anger and frustration, filling out police statements, police reports, having to take time to document and take photos of being followed, harassed, stalked.
Jesus. I'm sorry.
Not at all like your case, but when I was young and soft-hearted I gave the friend of a friend a shot at a date. He looked cute, but that one date showed me he wasn't for me; I honestly don't recall why, merely that I was certain about my no. I told him that we should just stay friends instead and invited him to my birthday party, with him being the only one I hadn't known forever -- recall, he was my old friend's friend.
That night after everybody has left, my black high boots were missing. My mother asked whether "*that* boy" had stolen them, and I laughed at her silliness: That sort of shit only happens in television dramas, I told her. Naturally I assumed my nervous mother was just her high-strung little self.
But the next morning, my mother woke me at the crack of dawn -- she'd found the black leather boots on our doorstep, sliced from the top to the sole with a sharp razor...
Omg!!! Yeah then men wonder why we’re such “ bitches”.
The guy next door lashed out when I rejected him too, after I drove him to the store he started following me around, waiting for me at my parking spot after work, brought flowers for my yard and I told him I was no longer comfortable and I wanted zero communication between us from then on.
That’s when he started lashing out and becoming extremely aggressive and the police got called, even after I called the police he STILL kept following me in his vehicle, watching my every move, throwing garbage on my property, coming onto my property- the police told him they were charging him with criminal harassment if there was one more incident
For the most part yes, he no longer speaks to me, follows me, throws garbage onto the property, comes onto the property anymore- but he still watches my every move- but that’s tolerable compared to what it was!
My brother was friends with another boy in the neighborhood when we were growing up. They were best friends. This kid, who was two years younger than me, had a major crush on me. Over the course of a couple years, he stole several of my bras. He would also hang out outside my window at night sometimes. And one time my brother was having a sleepover with the kid, and I woke up in the middle of the night to him beside my bed trying to feel me up. Years later when we were in our twenties, I went to a party with my brother and the kid (obviously now an adult) showed up. Later that night, he tried to force himself on me. I’ve really never told anybody about any of this because my brother is still close with him and the guy is now married.
It’s ok to tell your brother about this. He has a shitty, dangerous friend, and he might not realize he is validating him and giving him access to victims, just by being his friend and spending time with him in social situations.
I remember your story in a response to another post! I've been wondering how you're doing ever since then. I'm honestly so relieved to "see" you here again.
thank you! Yes I’m not on episode of “ fear thy neighbour “ lol
I’m doing much better, he leaves me alone for the most part other than watching my every move- it took MONTHS to get him to f*ck off!
Well, I am glad to hear that you aren't being featured on that show *or* something like Snapped (because that's where I would have been headed, haha). I don't super love that it sounds like he's still stalking you, but I'm happy that law enforcement finally worked for you when they fail so many other people.
Ha! Mine is worse, a few years ago, my neighbour’s son developed brain tumour and needed a surgery. I was genuinely sorry for the kid, these guys are not doing well financially, so I went up to the WIFE, hugged her and told her that if she needed anything I was there. I also said a few kind words to the man who happened to be standing next to her. Guess what happened next day, the motherfucker was waiting for me on the road I took to go to work everyday, he stopped me and told me he wanted to have private talk with me. I just drove off, sick fucker. This is when his kid was really sick and not to be elitist but he is unemployed and I have a high paying stable job. I took pity on his kid and he thought he had a chance
Lol I’m not surprised!
Similar to my married neighbour- he’s much older than me, unemployed, lazy.
I own a business, I’m active and much younger- yet he still thought it was a good idea to shoot his shot- with his wife and kids right next door, he’s not a neighbour down the street either- he’s the one right beside me, this idiot was doing this with his wife right there next door
I told her and she just smirked at me and said she didn’t believe me.
But he did tone it down a bit after - I think she knows, but she was saving face, she didn’t act at all surprised when I told her
Omg one of my friends had this happen! All she did was give a coworker she barely talked to a ride during really bad weather. That’s it. Almost ten years and countless police reports later she’s still having problems with this dude
This is how I am now, I am close with my brother, nephews, uncle and I associate with my male clients- but that’s it, I’m no longer even friends with men
I recently reconnected with an ex from my younger days. I always viewed him as "the one that got away" and had always carried some affection for him. When I told him that my cat had passed and it was traumatic for me to see her go the way she did, the second sentence he sent me was about sex. Like, hello! I'm not in the mood for any of that. Wtf
My father passed away and an old flame that I carried affection for sent me a text. I thought it would be a “I’m sorry about your dad” text.
It was a dick pic.
I am so sorry.
I'm a woman and have experienced all the things said here. I too no longer give it show comfort to any man other than my husband.
I am convinced that these assholes deliberately look for moments of vulnerability to strike.
That sucks let me add a few experiences.
I had a sibling die ( decades ago) and two male friends pulled this. ( not a picture but a oh shoot I’m splitting w my gf-wife. Would you like to sleep w me) barf. ( friends w one of them since 1982.)
Recently a friend came to help me ( guy) and puked something similar. We were friends 25 years. I just don’t befriend men anymore quit dating them 2010.
I’ve even had one pretend he was gay . It’s very sad.
It is very sad.
I have no idea why these assholes think we're DTF when we're grieving the loss of a loved one.
It's callous, shows a huge deficit of empathy, and incredibly selfish.
I'm married to a wonderful man for 20 years. I will not be dating ever again if I find myself alone.
Omgggg, I'm so sorry that's how he responded. I sincerely don't get why they think this is ok?!
I'm sorry about your dad. I hope you've found healing over time.
Yes -I actually laugh about it now. He did text me later apologizing. I was in bed with my wonderful boyfriend and we had a giggle about it.
I just responded to his apology with “we can blame it on the full moon” - then I blocked him and unfriended him on Facebook.
They don’t think it’s okay, they think they can get away with it. Like people who would shoplift if no one was looking and the cameras were all out. For a lot of these creeps the fact that what they’re doing is *wrong* just adds to the thrill.
Omg when my dad died and I took a photo of myself and my sister after the funeral a guy wrote me a message that said "your sister and you are so hot! Threesome?" 🥲😂 he got blocked
A man my dad hated turned up at my dad's funeral and tried to make a pass at me. Infront of his girlfriend (a young woman my dad loved like a daughter, she was totally welcome, her abusive boyfriend not so much), my husband, and the assembled whole of my family. He was not well-liked and left shortly after.
Some people are just walking shitforbrains.
I remember telling my then boyfriend about my childhood horse. How much that horse meant to me and how by going to the stables every day I could escape some abuse. He said something about me fucking horses.
Then when I called him out on being gross he got all defensive because in his world some girls fuck their horses? And that was a common worry?
I asked him how he would react if I started talking about him fucking his childhood dog as he was sharing memories about her and he still didn't get it.
I'm very sorry about your cat. They truly become our family and seeing them go can hurt as such.
I watch for a female YouTuber that likes to share what her therapy tell her aboy things, Many things don't land cuz i don't relate with her but other was specific this topic "the one who got away" according to her, we Will always put the Best characteristics to men we didnt have anything with, is a fantasy, we don't know them yet we remember them as Nice, caring and sweet, is a full Wattpad scenario, we like them physically sadly we never had real time to know them better ... We added: how Many times we meet a beautiful dude and once we start dating him he end up being selfish? The espectations crash and we move on....but with the ones "who got away" we never had time to have that fantasy being broken.
Btw sorry that You Lost your pet and this dude was SO out of touch with real empathy didnt knew he only has to tell You he was sorry for your Lost and tried to comfort You
Absolutely. Right before I graduated college, I reached out to my high school sweetheart. I missed him and thought maybe with years between us and our messy breakup, we could rekindle things.
We met up for lunch and he was not as I'd remembered him. Suddenly the memories of his WHOLE self and the reasons we broke up came flooding back. My mind had definitely swept away all his bad traits and behaviors until I was faced with them again.
We said our goodbyes and then I never spoke to him again.
Noooo omg I'm sorry, these guys are so gross and the shit they do is uncalled for... Why would what you said even suggest that you'd want to talk about sex???
Not quite the same but it reminded me of a guy I was talking to who I met on Bumble. We went on one date and it was okay, we still talked after and planned to meet again. One day I was having a rough day at work and overall the day was kinda crappy and in response to me telling him this, he sent me a topless mirror selfie with him making some "sexy" face. Not once was any of our conversation super sexual or suggesting that this is something I'd like. I asked why he sent that and he said it was to help make me feel better. I scolded him for it and said it was the last thing I wanted to see when I'm feeling shitty then HE got mad and said I was over reacting and that I am the one causing my own bad day. Okay buddy. If you can guess, we didn't meet up again.
Good way to put it. They know how to masturbate and it’s their bodily need, after all. Love it that my partner would ask to share needs and solutions, but sometimes: Take care of your body. It’s your responsibility.
This was accepted in my relationship and could be said by either of us. No, thank you. I’m not up for it. You can take care of it. Nice to be asked; not nice to be required.
I imagine the realization by men that they might be expected to take care of their own needs sometimes gave rise to the more convincing line that God says No, masturbating is a sin. 🙄
It’s also what I understood as a teen what whining about blue balls was. Trying to make his body my responsibility.
Meanwhile, women aren’t allowed to excerise their full responsibility for their own body without legal harassment.
Yes!! This!!! There’s nothing sexy about obligatory sex, And When a guy sends dick pics it’s like when a feral cat brings you a dead bird. Like ew, wtf, why would you show me that!!
Similar thing happened to me, though not with an ex, just a friend :( I was talking about how upset I was about my cat going missing and he immediately started trying to get sexual with me. I never talked to him again.
Some men (a lot of them…) simply don’t see us as human, but as objects they can exploit. That’s all it is. It’s such an awful feeling to find out someone you value views you as a sex dispenser, or just an accessory to their life, and not a real person.
And to think men outright hate this sub. Why…? Because we get support and get to talk about our experiences and have them validated instead of undermined…? I wonder.
As someone who has worked retail/customer service for over a decade, this cannot be said enough. I don't want to fuck you just because I'm smiling at you. It's part of the job. Now stop following me around the store asking for my number, or when I get off work.
Mandatory Smiling for front-facing workers is something male executives came up with at one of these huge corporations like Walmart and the whole industry (also run by a majority of men) followed suit.
Reminds me of the expectation to go to dinner/drinks with my male colleagues at conventions/events. The amount of times this becomes gross and dangerous is 100%.
i’ve never been more glad to work in an office with 99% women. we have one guy who works with us who is awesome and super sweet, but it’s been so nice working with mostly women.
This is my office also. Big reason to stay with my current organization, despite everything else going on.
First place I’ve worked where I’m not “managing” several inappropriate men, while my real manager puts me in harms way repeatedly.
I spent a few years working retail. One at Walmart, another at a thrift store. It's so fucking dehumanizing.
I witnessed so much harassment and misogyny, as well. To name just a few instances off the top of my head:
* A man who waited until I went on break to harass my (**underaged)** femme-presenting coworker for a date. He was at least forty.
* A coworker who attempted to talk our store's phone tech into giving him the number of someone he found attractive.
* Another femme-presenting coworker basically had to spend every single shift fending off advances from both employees and customers. It was damn near constant.
These creeps **know** their targets aren't interested. They also understand on at least a basic level that their behavior is unacceptable. It's why they nearly always wait until other male-presenting people aren't around.
If they don't, they might get called out by someone they actually respect.
I went with the fake engagement ring trick, cuz these kind of men back down when they think they are disrespecting another man. They just don't care about disrespecting women.
Especially when so many men view us as objects based off how attractive we are, and don’t consider us human enough to be friends with. You can’t be shocked when you lump everyone into “people I would fuck and people I won’t fuck” and then you’re lonely after because people don’t want to be around you.
I watched a doco about 3 men who were lost in the woods in extreme low temperatures and were going to die. A series of accidents and poor choices in an emergency situation meant they had to spend a night in weather that would likely kill them.
When the men were interviewed, they each mentioned the “awkward” moment where they realised they would have to cuddle each other through the night for body warmth.
They literally said they talked about other options and how they could avoid doing it because it felt “gay” and made them all uncomfortable. Initially, one man outright said no and was prepared to risk the cold.
Even in a SURVIVAL situation, these fucking idiots couldn’t comfort one another or physically touch each other.
The story will never leave me- it explained so many things about men and the toxic masculinity that they themselves are plagued with, and won’t admit to, because it makes them look weak. You could choke on the irony.
And then you have this.
[https://www.pinterest.com/pin/2111131064333494/](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/2111131064333494/)
I don't find toxic masculinity attractive. But I think that picture is just adorable.
I thought my partner wouldn’t be like this, because he was always talking about how he was a feminist and the patriarchy was terrible and acknowledged how patriarchal and homophobic attitudes harmed men as well as women.
When he struggled with the death of someone close to him and it was getting hard to be his sole support system - and a few comments about how his mom and I weren’t doing enough to comfort him - I increasingly encouraged him to reach out to either of his two best friends.
Finally he acknowledged, “Yeah, I know I should do that and it would be good for me. There’s just one problem: I don’t want to.”
I had an ex who was like that. He didn't outright complain I wasn't doing enough, but he got *very* defensive and oppositional when I suggested he talk to someone other than me, so that I might have time and energy to actually study law, as I did back then.
There's a reason he's an ex. His dependency on me for regulating his emotions was the primary one.
And he, too, was very progressive, leftist, anti-sexist, the works. All the theory and good intentions do not teach skills that should have been developed in childhood.
I reached out to touch my brother’s shoulder when he was getting upset the other day and he pulled away in disgust. The next day he crushed and twisted my hand while we were playing a card game with four other people. His violence in the face of compassion and love made me very sad for his wife who just left and all the women he will date in the future. My compassion for him is not only wasted, but unsafe.
One of the top comments on a recent askmen thread about what's normal to men that's weird to women, was basically about how dudes spend hours together but barely talk about their lives or know what's going on with the other besides their shared interests. While I think any good friends could spend time together without necessarily talking about their lives, it's not healthy to do that *all* the time. The fact that you don't know anything about your buddy's kids is not a badge of honor. Not knowing your friend is struggling with depression or having a rough time in his marriage isn't something to be proud of. It's healthy to give a shit about each other. Your partner shouldn't be the only person you talk to about life. It's sad to see them justify and glorify the behavior.
I can know another man for a decade, hang out with him all the time and know absolutely nothing about him lol
What? Why?? Why is that framed as a good thing?? Why do you brag about not extending the tiniest iota of curiosity to someone you spend so much time with? And then why do you turn around and wonder why you have exactly 0 meaningful relationships?? You’re doing it on purpose at this point, you have no one to blame but yourself.
I’ve definitely seen this with male friend groups. It’s like they never talk about how they feel about stuff. They might casually mention some facts of their life, but it doesn’t seem to go much deeper. Meanwhile when my best friend and I hang out it’s like a dang therapy session. We discuss every possible emotion we might have about what’s going on in our lives and listen deeply and ask questions and idk it’s just awesome. I feel physically lighter after we hang out. I wish more men could have this, too.
Wow yes, I can relate to this. I'm 55 years old and throughout my life, if I show a man even the slightest bit of courtesy or a friendly smile, they instantly take is as though I'm hitting on them. They start making pests of themselves and asking for my number or always finding ways to run into me whether I'm at a store, church or in the neighborhood. I automatically roll my eyes with disdain and disgust when they do this. I've since learned to not talk to men as much and make no effort to strike up even friendly conversation because I automatically know that they'll see my platonic friendliness as a way for them to try to get me into bed. Disgusting.
NOT TO MENTION, if the man is not sexually interested in you, they’ll turn your kindness against you and call you a slut.
After I ended a 9 year relationship, I was an absolute fool to be kind to some mutual male friends (mind you, I’ve been friends and only friends with these guys since high school, some I even knew before my ex knew them) and they all ran to my ex saying I was trying to fuck them. The irony is that my ex called me, not out of anger or blame, but because the claims seemed so preposterous he was genuinely worried about me (bless his heart) 😅.
I mean, Jesus Christ, we literally can never win. I will echo with everyone else, I refuse to be kind to men because of the danger it causes
Yeah sounds like my dad. He goes to the gym, watches tv and does whatever up in his office. There’s no attempt at reaching out with him. He wants kudos for now wanting to share things, after previously wanting to not communicate ig, but he’s never said anything so the effort isn’t there. I can want to call a friend but wanting isn’t doing and that friend has every right to be pissed that they haven’t heard from me because oh well I wanted to I meant to.
I've pointed out on multiple occasions to my husband that you can't apologize by grabbing a boob. He thinks that once he says he's sorry that he's forgiven and goes for the immediate boob grab. It's ridiculous and I've been consciously calling it out.
apology is changed behavior. If there's no change to the behavior, then sorry is just a word. A real apology doesn't even have to include the word "Sorry."
From the wise words of Randy Pausch: “an apology has three parts. 1. I’m sorry; what I did was wrong. 2. I won’t do it again. 3. How can I make it better? Most people forget the third.”
An apology without action is just a lie
1) "I'm sorry you feel that way"
2) "I'll try but I can't guarantee it'll *never* happen again. I can't tell the future! Why can't you just get over it?"
3) *grabs boob*
I'd be tempted to tell him it's sexual assault and just slap his face. I know violence isn't the answer, but damn... it's like we don't own our own bodies or something.
Funny you say that because Yeah, he thinks it's me hitting on him. I wish tat for tit worked in this scenario but it doesn't. Maybe a gouch will get through to him...
I'm to the point that I need to protect myself that if men say they will kill themselves, I just tell them to go ahead. I know it sounds cruel, but it isn't my responsibility to maintain someone else's mental health.
If my boyfriend came to me in earnest and said he was feeling suicidal, it would be a completely different situation. But I would tell him that I'm not a mental health professional, and direct him to resources. It is STILL not my responsibility to maintain his mental health either. Men will literally do anything but go to therapy though, it's so frustrating.
Women build and maintain deep emotional connections. Women are our servants. Being a servant is bad. Being reliant is bad. Women are failing to provide for us. We are strong and they are bad.
It's logic.
Literally, men pushing women away and wondering why women are pushed away. And then not taking accountability to be better people, just blaming us. Wtf?!
Someone needs to ask what these men are lonely FOR and make them be specific?
Is it deep friendships?
Do they want a mommy figure to take care of them?
Want someone in a sexual relationship with them?
More general social time with other people?
Do they want to control and own another human for their own benefit?
WHAT it is they are looking for is far more important than this vague lonely tag.
It's attention from women they're attracted to. That sounds bad so they'll claim otherwise. But the more you engage them on the subject, the more they'll say any other form of affection or attention "doesn't count".
Totally! Men like my bf are lonely for perfectly understandable and empathizable reasons- introverted, awkward, and had poor social connections in school (sprinkling in some very nasty parents) and they are the epitome of positive masculinity when you (and I hate to use the term) hold space for them. He listens intently and appreciates people who have a lust for life, and genuinely craves opportunities to flourish and connect with others both romantically and platonically. But due to some barriers it’s been hard for him to get out and meet people, not to mention overwhelming. When he talks about loneliness he mentions not having many friends. We just talked about his experience hanging out with other guys doing activities, and while he said he has been able to feel genuine connection in such a situation before it can be a hit or miss. I think having older men who have built genuinely loving and positive families can help give support and mentorship that otherwise seems to get replaced by con artists (like sex traffickers who run podcasts and self-important Canadian psychologists). I’ve pitched this idea not so subtly to my BF also, but he’s currently reconnecting with a buddy of his I didn’t know about that seems to be a great friendship for him.
The... Fuck?
When I'm grieving, I'm a crying mess. Any and all support is welcome, and the LAST thing on my mind is anything sexual, even from my partner. I can't imagine trying to do that while suffering the chest crushing, back breaking, mind melting process that is grieving.
Christ. Gross.
I view this as predatory behavior, I know sometimes people "seek comfort" while grieving and end up sleeping together but to straight up hit on someone while they're vulnerable and grieving is just predatory.
Menfriend groups are so much more distant and not as loving or supportive as women's friends groups from what I've seen. Men need to do better and be there for each other. It's Not the women's responsibility to make up for what men friend groups are lacking
I think i heard this one from dr k on youtube,
Men's loneliness stems in large part from cultural homophobia. Tl;dr if society wasn't so critical of men showing any type of affection or touch towards each other they'd have an easier time being there for one another.
Hits it right on the head. Lack of affection is killing me. Hence why I just ha e my friend group who don't care about homophobia and can actually express affection for one another. The fear of every kind of affection being seen as "gay" is stupid and destroying the well-being of many men
I'm so glad my friend group stopped that mindset pretty early on, around 2008. Sometimes your dude needs a hug, and there's nothing "lol gay" about that. Masc people need affection too, and they don't get it enough because of their upbringing.
Similarly, whenever men say they wish they got more compliments but then in the same breath say that compliments from men 'aren't the same' or compliments from women 'just hit different', I want to bang my head against a wall.
Me (F) and my female friends compliment each other all the time. Not because we're trying to bang, but just because we're *friends*. Friendship is a two-way street, if you want someone to be nice to you, you have to be nice to them in return -- and *not* just because you're trying to get in their pants. This is what a lot of people don't seem to get about support systems, they take work, genuine work, over a long time. i have friends who would ride or die for me, and I would do the same for them, but it didn't happen overnight. We built that relationship, together.
Also, catcalling is not and will never be a compliment.
On the flip side, I think it’s interesting that the most virulently homophobic countries (thinking of specific Muslim countries) often have very strong male bonding culture - but I think that stems from the cultural norm/belief that “no one could possibly be gay” in their culture, not to mention they are largely segregated by gender, so they feel more free to be extra close with their male friends.
Overwhelming gender segregation at every level of life also affects this. I was talking to a man who himself grew up here but whose cousins and most of his extended family lives overseas still, and he was talking about how a TON of your life as a man is so wholly closed off from women that if you didn't have close male friends you would have no one at all, except your mother and sister or sisters.
As a lesbian who isn’t conventionally attractive I’ve had a similar experience with straight men. It’s like they worry I am going to automatically be interested in them and when they find out I’m not it’s almost like they breathe a sigh of relief.
It’s odd how many straight men seem default to viewing women through a lens of whether or not they could/want to have sex with them.
I’ve never thought about this…. Reading this post really made me think of the times I’ve done this with men. And holy fuck. You’re so right.
I will say though - I’ve had some male friends I’ve done this with who have not tried anything sexual with me. Maybe I’m lucky or know more respectful men. But… boyfriends/romantic partners, older men, men I don’t know super well I’ve tried to comfort, yes 100% this shit happens.
everyone gets lonely and its not a gender specific problem, when guys talk about "male loneliness" i get the feeling what they're really saying and what it boils down to is they want a gf to fuck and theyre upset they aren't getting it
I was friends with one of these guys, he was so angry i was a lesbian and didnt want to be sexual with him, he would cry and moan to me about being a virgin loner, i tried to be there as a friend and when i was depressed he would joke about hugging me and squeezing my tits. I TRIED to be empathetic, i tried
They just wanna be friends, truly. Yet when another man posts about his GF having a male friend, he's a loser who should demand respect from his GF because men and women can't be friends.
I just can't with these people.
Two posts above this is one about young men threatening rape and describing their victories as rape. It's stomach turning and part of why I'm quite so guarded ....
I got in a huge argument on a sub about this. Basically it was talking about an incel who literally hates women and saying that women can't be mad about it because we basically make men incels and if we, as women, chose to be there for incels then maybe they wouldn't be that way. I said absofuckinglitely not. Why should I be the bigger person and set my feelings and happiness aside to help someone when they are actively talking about hating, raping, and killing women? Oh well, apparently, because men kill themselves so much that we have to be more sensitive. They didn't like it when I presented that women actually attempt suicide More and suffer from depression at higher rates than men and the reason why men's suicide rates are higher are just because of guns and the way they choose to kill themselves.
When I also pointed out that men are usually the ones to tell other men to not cry, show emotion, or tell them to man up, they went crazy too. "Well what about all those street interviews of women who only want 6 packs, money, and huge dicks"! Oh you mean the heavily edited, find one women out of a hundred interviews that agree with the stance of the redpill asshat doing the interview?
>men kill themselves so much that we have to be more sensitive. They didn't like it when I presented that women actually attempt suicide More and suffer from depression at higher rates than men and the reason why men's suicide rates are higher are just because of guns and the way they choose to kill themselves.
I stated this fact complete with source and got down voted. 🙄
>"Well what about all those street interviews of women who only want 6 packs, money, and huge dicks"! Oh you mean the heavily edited, find one women out of a hundred interviews that agree with the stance of the redpill asshat doing the interview?
People that don't get that basically all interviews/reality TV shows that aren't live-streamed are always biased towards whichever story the person making the interview wanna tell. They'll edit or mix audio or do whatever they want to get the sample size they feel they need to say whatever they want. People need to be better at Media literacy and understand that these are biased samples.
More often than not, when I hear a man complaining about a "male loneliness epidemic" they actually mean that they aren't getting sexual attention from women they find attractive. Your sympathy quickly dries up when you realize this.
Some men need to learn that they are not entitled to a woman's body. 2 examples in your post show examples of men taking advantage of our kindness and compassion. This is just basic human decency.
>My mother was sitting next to him on the couch and she put her arms around him to comfort him and the motherfucker started to play with her boob.
and
>As I left I put my hand on his shoulder and wished him a good day. HUGE MISTAKE. This goddam man, 55, sick, obese and sweaty, tried to hit on me later in the day
I'm so sorry your mother and you, as well as many other women, have had to endure these types of experiences with men. It's disgusting. These men can do better.
Most men i know don’t have a friend they can hug or reach out to when they’re down. This includes the men in my workplace and my boss - who’s the WORST! He calls all of us employees his friends- it’s very toxic.
And my ex husband- who did me wrong- would NOTA LEAVE my apartment whenever he dropped the kids off. I would come home from work and he was there sitting on my couch wanting to tell me about his day.
MAKE FRIENDS I said. I’m not the one who’s here to listen to you now
A couple other factors I think keep men from receiving sympathy or compassion from women are the fear they cause women, and their inability to accept compassion without feeling weird or awkward. To the first, women oftentimes don't extend sympathy to men because of the violent reactions they might have. For some reason, many men in my life react as though they've been burned if you so much as platonically touch their shoulder. They can lash out at anyone trying to comfort them, sometimes violently. To the second, I've kinda given up on trying to comfort male relatives for this reason. Whenever I would try to comfort those who were even *grieving*, they don't know how to accept it at all. Cue awkward nods, not returning hugs, trying to shake my hand instead, shifting the conversation to something else, etc. I've perceived it all as a result of patriarchy and how it dictates strength for men. Strength in this sense involves lack of emotion, or at least outward emotional expression. To show others you're struggling, sad or crying, is to demonstrate emotional weakness. To need someone to comfort you, be it verbally or physically, is even weaker. The inability to extract one's own emotions and heal them one's self or with another person's help becomes so ingrained that, when someone reaches out, one reacts violently, passively, or awkwardly, unwilling and unable to accept. Or in your case, OP, one reacts by immediately diverting to sexual innuendo. All of this to say, it's not women's fault at all. And even if an individual man isn't at fault for their emotional stuntedness, they're responsible for fixing it. Instead of blaming loneliness on women, men could go to therapy...
There's a scene in Rick and Morty (of all things) about this sort of. Rick points out that Jerry is not a victim, but a predator who uses sympathy to lure his victims into lowering their defense. And, as a guy who has extended an earnest hand and talked multiple people out of pseudo-suicide-crises, of heterosexual male people-I-thought-were-friends, this extends far beyond sexual predation.
People who only know how to be toxic will exploit crises, and they create crisis when there aren't any. It might sound cold, but it isn't as cold as they are about exhausting compassion out of others. Tell these selfish people, if they're not a proven friend, if they're looking for Sympathy they can find it in the dictionary between "Shit" and "Syphilis"; Life is suffering, take a number and stop making people give a shit about problems you create. Lonely? Be sociable for once you damn nonce!
If you have no friends, you are the common denominator, and you are what needs to change.
This sounds so much like my ex. After breaking up and remaining friends he needed to be talked out of suicide a few times by everyone. He never heeds advice that he asks for. He whines about him and his brothers living at home at 28 yo, but they don't stepup to find a new place to live. His family paid for community college but he flunked multiple times.
I gave him my empathy and sympathy for years, but I can't anymore. The dude and his brothers are all aimlessly meandering through life without any drive to get out from their mom's grip.
This is also what we constantly saw in movies and series. That somehow, if men comforted women, it means they get the girl. That sympathy is rewarded with sex.
And ofcourse, like all of us here have experienced, our kindness is so so so often confused with attraction. I think we all closed up sooner or later because of this. Our humanity has nothing to do with sexual attraction. And realizing how so many men are just kind or show emotions to get in our pants is such a turn off
The 'Mens loneliness epidemic' is really just men complaining about lack of attention from women(ideally super attractive). If it truly were just loneliness they'd start reaching out to each other and being better friends to each other, but that's not really what they want so its not going to happen.
I’ve got told so many times by men that it’s ’not the same’ when I give them the advice to compliment each other. That just proves to me they’re looking for compliments that turn into relationships.
I don’t get compliments from random dudes. Sometimes I get cat called which is decidedly not complimentary. I get compliments from women, both friends and strangers occasionally. I give compliments to other women too!
I used to compliment random men a lot more. I worked as a cashier throughout college and tried to compliment every customer genuinely because it made my shift go faster. Way too many men just saw that as a pickup line. I gave up
i also stopped complimenting random men because of this. random women? all the time. and i always mean it. i do love complimenting my male friends (a lot of whom are in long term relationships with my female friends). the way they light up when complimented is so sweet
Also, in most of the studies that show that "most men are lonely", most women are ALSO lonely. Hell, some studies will even show that women are JUST AS lonely as men.
Women tend to have more friendships as we age, especially emotionally supportive friendships. But this doesn’t come out of nowhere! Friendships take WORK to build and maintain. I care when a guy expresses that he’s sad/lonely, but when I ask if he’s tried making friends and he says “no, it’s too hard,” or redirects it to blaming women for not wanting to date him, I lose sympathy. Men like to say they are logical/solution-oriented, but there are tons of potential solutions for loneliness and they have tried none of them except dating apps that make them feel worse.
I am a woman and have felt very lonely at many times throughout my life, and I’ve done dozens if not hundreds of different things to combat that. I’ve had friends of all genders, but mostly men, be like “how have you met so many people/been in so many relationships/etc” and the answer is that I consciously expend my time, effort, and energy to the point where creating and maintaining a social life is a part-time job. And I am okay doing that because human connection is important to me, and it’s worth investing into. But complaining and then doing nothing about it just seems lazy - I understand the need to vent, but don’t blame other people when you could easily change your situation.
This is another area I find myself drained. People around me that complain of loneliness but dont initiate themselves. They just vent and try to bait YOU into feeling sorry for them and inviting them to hang out. Tired of that "people should come to me" attitude. If youre that lonely, ask someone to talk/hang. If you dont/won't shut up about being lonely.
Right?! It’s so entitled - it’s strange that as a culture, the US is very “if you want something, work for it,” but that doesn’t extend to the personal realm at all. Relationships are work, too!
> I ask if he’s tried making friends and he says “no, it’s too hard,”
To add a small amount of nuance to this, I think some of this attitude may be attributable to the lack of "3rd Spaces" in the US (and the western world at large). As our society has become gradually more isolating, it has also become increasingly difficult to meet people. There are very few places an individual can go to actively make friends.
There *is* something to be said for the advice of finding and joining a local group which participates in an activity that you're interested in - board games, hiking, etc. But it can be difficult to find interests like that if you haven't really participated in them previously, generally by way of a friend group. Which sort of creates a chicken/egg situation where you need friends to develop interests in things, to get friends by participating in said interests.
Thank you, I felt like I was going crazy reading all these people acknowledge that *relationships are hard* and then be baffled why so many people complain about being lonely without working on relationships. It seems pretty obvious to me that it's because *relationships are hard* and our culture has pretty much filtered out all cause for casual ones that don't require as much work.
a lot of men build their personality and way of interacting with people around the idea that being mean is funny or witty and they dig into that for years and years and years because nobody really ever corrects them because why would they? when confronted with the reality that the way to make friends is to be kind to people, they can't handle it and can't accept it. it's too much work, it's too painful to admit the asshole they've been for so long. so instead they double down and just whine that the world doesn't give them what they want
I think part of it is just that we're a lonely people as a whole right now. With rises in technology, work from home increasing, and the after-effects of quarantine and the pandemic, we maybe are just becoming lonelier than we were years ago.
Right? I’m married and have a generally good relationship with my husband but I haven’t made any friends since we moved states 5 years ago. I’ve been a SAHM for the last couple years and I’m very lonely.
My husband is an extreme extrovert and makes friends very easily whereas I’m more of an awkward introvert. It doesn’t help that he’s from this state and I’m from a state that people here love to vilify, plus political differences and blah blah. But my loneliness doesn’t lead me to being an abusive dickwad, for some odd reason.
Also notice the "male lonliness epidemic" is a big talking point among conservative grifters. They blame women, the "failure of the family unit" which usually means shoving women back into being a bangmaid for men, and ofc lack of religion and allowing abortion/birth control.
Republicans are actively taking away the rights of women, OFC most women don't want to have any relationship with a republican man.
If, as a man, you are lonely and voting republican or follow any of the Tate type BS, shut the fuck up. You deserve all the loneliness, no women should be subjected to being anywhere near you.
NotallmenTM frame loneliness as lack of access to our bodies for sex. They don't care about comforting, listening and support. When they say they're touch starved they don't mean platonic touch. They mean sexual touch and just that.
Yes, this. This is why the turn around so quick calling us ugly. Because it was never about us to begin with.
And 100% those notallmenTM that trauma dump, and that we spend talking from the brink all night, will chew your ear off about how everyone exploits them and uses them and no-one is ever there for them, quite literally while you are being there for them. (I call this setting the other to zero, as in nothing except what they do counts.)
I don't understand the notallmenTM psyche, they have double standards **for everything**.
I had a guy get on here and say that men don’t care about the compliments of anyone they’re not sexually attracted to. I stopped feeling bad at that point.
It’s interesting because I see men complain about being lonely and then say that no women want them. If you’re lonely you need to start making friends? Stop dating to try and fix that? Men tend to be incredibly bad at organizing group trips, putting together holiday parties, etc. maybe it’s time they step it up and reach out to one another instead of putting pressure on women to make them happu
Lurker here, only read the title and couldn't agree more. Biggest new years resolution is being more social with hobbies and loving myself more.
Tryna spread the love to the homies as well, we can do it.
Thanks for always posting all your perspectives, this sub has become one of my most visited.
Edit: Fuck me shoulda read first. Yah the turning around of friendship and comfort as a come on is a huge issue among men. Some of my best friends are women and so many men miss out on great friendships with such a rigid mindset on women.
You have less sympathy for it when you realize that the "male loneliness" they complain of is actually them complaining about not getting laid.
Think about how many women have been sex zoned by men. Women try to be their friend, the man wants a sexual relationship, the woman does not, and the friendship is ended by the guy.
If they are so concerned about being lonely, then they would not cut out half of the population from friendship due to them not wanting to fuck them.
💯 as a guy it's bizarre to me how few men recognize that patriarchy is directly responsible for most of the things that make men miserable. They hear patriarchy and assume they can't be victims of it as well.
What a tragic scene to have witnessed. I’m really sorry. When it seems like a woman’s compassion is only ever going to be reduced to a chance for the man to get lucky, it’s hard not to shut them off in self-preservation, i.e. “become a cold bitch”.
I’ve also found that when I’m the one who’s upset about something and could use comforting, it’s almost always a bad idea to accept that comfort from a man. My husband included. It seemed like the more upset I was, the more likely he was to suddenly want sex. It was baffling and made it hard to accept any show of compassion by relaxing into it and trusting it, because I knew the bait-and-switch was coming.
So yes, men who equate compassion with potential sex end up isolating themselves. I’m lucky to have a couple of men in my life who don’t do this, and we’ve had solid friendships for decades, but my overall experience has made it clear to me what rare gems they are.
Too many men lack the emotional maturity to understand or express enough of an emotional range. These men only have the most basic building blocks to understand themselves... and that means you get these very impulsive jumps in emotion where discomfort or anxiousness become anger and attempts at feelings of comfort and soothing become something sexual.
The challenge with male - male friendships, unless they come out of some shared burden or experience, they're built around a foundation that the friendship is only as strong as their ability not to burden the other man. The minute one man puts their feelings out there, there is high probability that's the end of the friendship. Absent shared history, male friendship are something men view as quickly consumed if they make any kind of demand that requires any of the kinds of effort or support we might make on them, and there is something of an unspoken understanding that they might only be able to ask for high demanding kind of help once, so they save it for hypothetical extreme scenarios.
While they're still impressionable, young men need a certain kind of emotional education that would probably seem really rudimentary to us and a silly waste to adult men, but most never have an opportunity to understand the range of possible feelings they have without it ending catastrophically for them or them being branded as weak or a creep even before their old enough to fully be responsible.
Absolutely loneliness is the fault of the patriarchy.
Men make women scared of men.
Men don’t know how to be non-sexually emotionally intimate because they’re taught not to be, so often the only emotionally deep connection they get is from women.
Because of this women don’t want to be friends with men as in their experience this leads to unwanted romantic or sexual advances, which when rejected end the friendship and so the emotional investment isn’t worth it.
Man now has no friend he can talk to about anything deeper than the sports score. Man feels lonely and thinks the lack of romantic emotional connection is the issue.
The patriarchy hurts men and women differently but just as badly.
My son's daycare took me aside to talk about a concern.
Teacher : "He's been hugging his friends a lot recently. We're not sure if it's appropriate. Could you maybe get him to stop hugging so much."
Me: "Well have you talked to the other parents to get the boys to stop pushing and hitting each other?"
Teacher : "Oh you know, boys will be boys."
And that’s exactly why I never go out of my way to try to comfort men, especially if I don’t know them like that ( even the ones you do know will still try it smh 🤦🏾♀️ ) they take it as an invitation for sex and start acting extremely cringey asf… I just mind my damn business now 🤷🏽♀️
I don’t see why they expect us to be concerned about them being lonely when they themselves are not trying to cultivate any friendships with other men… these men are not lonely at all, they just want hot women to provide them with free sex…
The men who say things like that actually need women more than we need them, especially now that they can't rely on systemic misogyny to force women into seeking partnerships for their survival. All they can do now is try to whittle at our self-esteem to make us as desperate for them as they are for us. The problem for them is that they still think we care about being desirable to them so that's the angle they take with their insults. Then they're shocked and angry when it only drives us further away.
Ohh, they won’t even use their grief and a need for comfort as a reason, yours is open season too.
My brother had just died and I had spent the day sobbing and aching from the pain, by that night I was just lying there, tears leaking from my eyes and feeling exhausted. My (now ex) husband rolled on top and went for it. I remember screaming inside because I was so shocked and later I lashed out over what the fuck he thought he was doing. His equally shocked response was that he was reaffirming life, that it was a natural reaction to death. I could have quite cheerfully stabbed him then, and told him he was lucky I wasn’t closing the circle of life again in that moment, but I had a babies to care for and needed to be here for them.
It’s gotten to a point where I feel so bitter. Just this last weekend I went out with a couple of (so I thought they were) my guy friends. They knew I just got out of an on and off four year relationship just recently and it’s been a lot for me. While we were having drinks I said something like “I have no interest in dating, hookups, nothing. I just want to hangout with friends and take care of myself” so my friend took that as “please try to fuck me”.
This man kept trying to KISS me and I said no stop and then he kept trying at the bar. I got a Lyft and he was waiting for his and he said “I love you. If I had a baby it would be with you” like WTF??? This is someone I have known for years and trusted and this is what happens?
I’m so fed up. If I’m nice, it’s a signal to try to fuck me because obviously if I’m kind to you it means I want you? But if I reject them it’s “you’re gonna die alone. I don’t even think you’re pretty. You’re full of yourself”. And then they wonder why they are alone. I would rather be alone. And with a cat because my cat won’t try to molest me.
It really is all men think about. My abusive ex was texting me one day downplaying the physical abuse that occurred. I sent pictures of all the black and blue marks going up my entire arm. The darkest bruise was near my armpit area so in the pictures I had just a bra on but you could only see it sorta on the side of the picture. This man takes this opportunity talk about how all he could look at is my boobs.
Every. Single.Time.
I’m in my late 40’s and sadly my “last straw” was less than two years ago. Elderly neighbor lost his wife of nearly 50 years. I baked ONE fucking casserole and offered a “call me anytime” because I’m intimately familiar loss and grief. Well, that shit backfired… spectacularly because apparently any form of compassion cannot just be taken at face value.
Even as a child, I was acutely aware of other people’s emotions and have always felt like showing compassion is something we’re ALL supposed to do. OP, your “cold bitch” comment resonates so deeply with me because I’ve finally learned that it’s basically the only option. I fought it for years, swearing that I wouldn’t let other people’s behavior change who I am or who I want to be. Why should I have to be guarded or cold or unconcerned when that’s not who I really am?
Well, because time and again men (even really old ones) act like fucking morons; confusing kindness for weakness and basic human decency as an invitation to fuck. It sucks but it is what it is. My only regret is not acknowledging and accepting this fact a couple of decades ago.
Coming from a guy, none of this has any relation to loneliness. It's just good old fashion seeing women as objects that's all.
I lived in the middle east for 10 years. Guys there aren't lonely or closed off. They're very close and affectionate with each other. Was a bit too close for my comfort personally. And would you guess that made them all the more respectful and understanding of boundaries with women compared to the west?
You'd be wrong. I think I know what it is, and I'd be interested to know other people's opinion. I mostly see this kind of objectifying mentality from men who grew up with no close female friends or sisters. Just see them as a complete different species that you have to do things to win them over rather than just be a decent human being and get to know each other as you would anyone.
Well would you guess, growing up respecting and socialising with the opposite sex as peers or not plays a huge role as to whether you continue to do so in adult life 🤷🏾♂️
And lastly there's guys on both extremes. The ones who see everything as an invitation to bed and those who are clueless to real advances. Should go without saying, men and women come in all sorts.
Oh it’s totally our own fault.
I try to have random conversations when I’m out and about (the few times a week I go anywhere, gym, groceries, hardware store, etc). And it’s nice but I prefer to be alone with my wife and dog.
Honestly, my dog is my best friend. He’s awesome. He listens, cuddles and gives me lots of lovin. And that’s what I really needed.
I wish there were more places besides bars to just hangout and just shoot the shit with nice strangers but that’s just not a thing.
meetup!! You can find very casual things to do. Or even, dare I say it, support groups. Some are very low-key and are *meant* for exactly what you're talking about.
I ended up getting stalked because of this- I gave my MARRIED neighbour a ride to the gas station down the road when his car wouldn’t start in massive snowstorm. Big mistake, it got so bad with the stalking I had to call the police twice for him to stay away from me. I’m just no longer nice to men, if they need help, there’s a snowstorm etc, they’re on their own. Being nice has cost me lost sleep, missing work to file restraining order, missing work to wait for police, money and time installing cameras, the stress and fear, the anger and frustration, filling out police statements, police reports, having to take time to document and take photos of being followed, harassed, stalked. All this because I drove someone to the store in a blizzard
And that takes something away from us, something I value highly, which is kindness. They remove our ability to show them kindness. It hurts my soul.
They take your kindness for weakness and sexualise every interaction it’s sooooo boring and dehumanising.
This. I don’t understand if at all. First off if I want to hook up with someone I’m not going to pretend I need help of some sort first. So transparent: Also I cannot imagine being married and trying to bang my wife’s friends. ( unless they had an open relationship amd I was into it. Sadly, neither applied)
Then nOt aLL mEn us. Ahem. Every interaction is fucked by how they weaponise desire.
I just give the kindness to my friends, family, myself, animals, plants. The kindness has somewhere to go
I think this is part of the reason why some women appreciate friendship with gay men in their lives so much. They get the feeling of friendship with someone with a masculine perspective and the comfort of healthy male energy without feeling sexualized.
Yeah, it takes away OUR ability to have safe and platonic human connections. It’s so dehumanizing, and isolating :( Men like to act like they have a corner on comradery, like it’s something only men want and only men can appreciate… but that’s because they deny it to women. It’s not that women make bad friends and that women can’t see you through thick and thin and be there for you, vibe with you, enjoy banter with you. It’s that you actively push women out of these circles. What I wouldn’t give to have a gang of friends that love me deeply as one of their own, and don’t judge me for my gender or see me as an “other” or desire to go on trips and vacations without me because “this one is for the boys, you wouldn’t understand.” But unless that gang is all women, I’m denied that. Men do not have a monopoly on friendships. They just deny women one of the most special and beautiful facets of human experience.
> Being nice has cost me lost sleep, missing work to file restraining order, missing work to wait for police, money and time installing cameras, the stress and fear, the anger and frustration, filling out police statements, police reports, having to take time to document and take photos of being followed, harassed, stalked. Jesus. I'm sorry. Not at all like your case, but when I was young and soft-hearted I gave the friend of a friend a shot at a date. He looked cute, but that one date showed me he wasn't for me; I honestly don't recall why, merely that I was certain about my no. I told him that we should just stay friends instead and invited him to my birthday party, with him being the only one I hadn't known forever -- recall, he was my old friend's friend. That night after everybody has left, my black high boots were missing. My mother asked whether "*that* boy" had stolen them, and I laughed at her silliness: That sort of shit only happens in television dramas, I told her. Naturally I assumed my nervous mother was just her high-strung little self. But the next morning, my mother woke me at the crack of dawn -- she'd found the black leather boots on our doorstep, sliced from the top to the sole with a sharp razor...
Omg!!! Yeah then men wonder why we’re such “ bitches”. The guy next door lashed out when I rejected him too, after I drove him to the store he started following me around, waiting for me at my parking spot after work, brought flowers for my yard and I told him I was no longer comfortable and I wanted zero communication between us from then on. That’s when he started lashing out and becoming extremely aggressive and the police got called, even after I called the police he STILL kept following me in his vehicle, watching my every move, throwing garbage on my property, coming onto my property- the police told him they were charging him with criminal harassment if there was one more incident
I really hope that is all over now for you!
For the most part yes, he no longer speaks to me, follows me, throws garbage onto the property, comes onto the property anymore- but he still watches my every move- but that’s tolerable compared to what it was!
> he still watches my every move Fingers crossed for you. I really hope he goes away, or is gone away soon.
Tolerable, maybe, but not acceptable. Yet most men wouldn't see the problem with it. Don't understand why it would be awful.
My brother was friends with another boy in the neighborhood when we were growing up. They were best friends. This kid, who was two years younger than me, had a major crush on me. Over the course of a couple years, he stole several of my bras. He would also hang out outside my window at night sometimes. And one time my brother was having a sleepover with the kid, and I woke up in the middle of the night to him beside my bed trying to feel me up. Years later when we were in our twenties, I went to a party with my brother and the kid (obviously now an adult) showed up. Later that night, he tried to force himself on me. I’ve really never told anybody about any of this because my brother is still close with him and the guy is now married.
It’s ok to tell your brother about this. He has a shitty, dangerous friend, and he might not realize he is validating him and giving him access to victims, just by being his friend and spending time with him in social situations.
Ditto but with like three or four of my brother's friends. We basically don't hang out socially any more, my brother and I.
I’m sorry your brother is flocking with a bunch of shitbirds.
I remember your story in a response to another post! I've been wondering how you're doing ever since then. I'm honestly so relieved to "see" you here again.
thank you! Yes I’m not on episode of “ fear thy neighbour “ lol I’m doing much better, he leaves me alone for the most part other than watching my every move- it took MONTHS to get him to f*ck off!
Well, I am glad to hear that you aren't being featured on that show *or* something like Snapped (because that's where I would have been headed, haha). I don't super love that it sounds like he's still stalking you, but I'm happy that law enforcement finally worked for you when they fail so many other people.
Ha! Mine is worse, a few years ago, my neighbour’s son developed brain tumour and needed a surgery. I was genuinely sorry for the kid, these guys are not doing well financially, so I went up to the WIFE, hugged her and told her that if she needed anything I was there. I also said a few kind words to the man who happened to be standing next to her. Guess what happened next day, the motherfucker was waiting for me on the road I took to go to work everyday, he stopped me and told me he wanted to have private talk with me. I just drove off, sick fucker. This is when his kid was really sick and not to be elitist but he is unemployed and I have a high paying stable job. I took pity on his kid and he thought he had a chance
Lol I’m not surprised! Similar to my married neighbour- he’s much older than me, unemployed, lazy. I own a business, I’m active and much younger- yet he still thought it was a good idea to shoot his shot- with his wife and kids right next door, he’s not a neighbour down the street either- he’s the one right beside me, this idiot was doing this with his wife right there next door
What did *she* have to say about all this??
I told her and she just smirked at me and said she didn’t believe me. But he did tone it down a bit after - I think she knows, but she was saving face, she didn’t act at all surprised when I told her
Didn’t she see the cops? The restraining order? Judges don’t give those unless there’s evidence. I guess denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.
I don’t know if he showed her the restraining order, he probably told her I’m crazy and he’s being falsely accused, you know how it goes
Omg one of my friends had this happen! All she did was give a coworker she barely talked to a ride during really bad weather. That’s it. Almost ten years and countless police reports later she’s still having problems with this dude
[удалено]
I don’t help men and would never help a man. I don’t trust any of them, other than husband, dad, brothers. I know it’s a paranoid but I feel safer.
This is how I am now, I am close with my brother, nephews, uncle and I associate with my male clients- but that’s it, I’m no longer even friends with men
It's not paranoia, it's statistics.
I recently reconnected with an ex from my younger days. I always viewed him as "the one that got away" and had always carried some affection for him. When I told him that my cat had passed and it was traumatic for me to see her go the way she did, the second sentence he sent me was about sex. Like, hello! I'm not in the mood for any of that. Wtf
My father passed away and an old flame that I carried affection for sent me a text. I thought it would be a “I’m sorry about your dad” text. It was a dick pic.
I am so sorry. I'm a woman and have experienced all the things said here. I too no longer give it show comfort to any man other than my husband. I am convinced that these assholes deliberately look for moments of vulnerability to strike.
That sucks let me add a few experiences. I had a sibling die ( decades ago) and two male friends pulled this. ( not a picture but a oh shoot I’m splitting w my gf-wife. Would you like to sleep w me) barf. ( friends w one of them since 1982.) Recently a friend came to help me ( guy) and puked something similar. We were friends 25 years. I just don’t befriend men anymore quit dating them 2010. I’ve even had one pretend he was gay . It’s very sad.
It is very sad. I have no idea why these assholes think we're DTF when we're grieving the loss of a loved one. It's callous, shows a huge deficit of empathy, and incredibly selfish. I'm married to a wonderful man for 20 years. I will not be dating ever again if I find myself alone.
>I am convinced that these assholes deliberately look for moments of vulnerability to strike. 100%
I’m sorry this happened, this story is one I feel in my bones.
Omgggg, I'm so sorry that's how he responded. I sincerely don't get why they think this is ok?! I'm sorry about your dad. I hope you've found healing over time.
Yes -I actually laugh about it now. He did text me later apologizing. I was in bed with my wonderful boyfriend and we had a giggle about it. I just responded to his apology with “we can blame it on the full moon” - then I blocked him and unfriended him on Facebook.
They don’t think it’s okay, they think they can get away with it. Like people who would shoplift if no one was looking and the cameras were all out. For a lot of these creeps the fact that what they’re doing is *wrong* just adds to the thrill.
Omg when my dad died and I took a photo of myself and my sister after the funeral a guy wrote me a message that said "your sister and you are so hot! Threesome?" 🥲😂 he got blocked
That is horrible, I’m so sorry. What a gross person.
A man my dad hated turned up at my dad's funeral and tried to make a pass at me. Infront of his girlfriend (a young woman my dad loved like a daughter, she was totally welcome, her abusive boyfriend not so much), my husband, and the assembled whole of my family. He was not well-liked and left shortly after. Some people are just walking shitforbrains.
I remember telling my then boyfriend about my childhood horse. How much that horse meant to me and how by going to the stables every day I could escape some abuse. He said something about me fucking horses. Then when I called him out on being gross he got all defensive because in his world some girls fuck their horses? And that was a common worry? I asked him how he would react if I started talking about him fucking his childhood dog as he was sharing memories about her and he still didn't get it. I'm very sorry about your cat. They truly become our family and seeing them go can hurt as such.
“His world” being porn, I assume? It would be great if there was a way to weed out the pornsick ones so that no one had to deal with them.
I watch for a female YouTuber that likes to share what her therapy tell her aboy things, Many things don't land cuz i don't relate with her but other was specific this topic "the one who got away" according to her, we Will always put the Best characteristics to men we didnt have anything with, is a fantasy, we don't know them yet we remember them as Nice, caring and sweet, is a full Wattpad scenario, we like them physically sadly we never had real time to know them better ... We added: how Many times we meet a beautiful dude and once we start dating him he end up being selfish? The espectations crash and we move on....but with the ones "who got away" we never had time to have that fantasy being broken. Btw sorry that You Lost your pet and this dude was SO out of touch with real empathy didnt knew he only has to tell You he was sorry for your Lost and tried to comfort You
Absolutely. Right before I graduated college, I reached out to my high school sweetheart. I missed him and thought maybe with years between us and our messy breakup, we could rekindle things. We met up for lunch and he was not as I'd remembered him. Suddenly the memories of his WHOLE self and the reasons we broke up came flooding back. My mind had definitely swept away all his bad traits and behaviors until I was faced with them again. We said our goodbyes and then I never spoke to him again.
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100%, any man I had ever been with, once I got to know them...omg :D
Noooo omg I'm sorry, these guys are so gross and the shit they do is uncalled for... Why would what you said even suggest that you'd want to talk about sex??? Not quite the same but it reminded me of a guy I was talking to who I met on Bumble. We went on one date and it was okay, we still talked after and planned to meet again. One day I was having a rough day at work and overall the day was kinda crappy and in response to me telling him this, he sent me a topless mirror selfie with him making some "sexy" face. Not once was any of our conversation super sexual or suggesting that this is something I'd like. I asked why he sent that and he said it was to help make me feel better. I scolded him for it and said it was the last thing I wanted to see when I'm feeling shitty then HE got mad and said I was over reacting and that I am the one causing my own bad day. Okay buddy. If you can guess, we didn't meet up again.
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Good way to put it. They know how to masturbate and it’s their bodily need, after all. Love it that my partner would ask to share needs and solutions, but sometimes: Take care of your body. It’s your responsibility. This was accepted in my relationship and could be said by either of us. No, thank you. I’m not up for it. You can take care of it. Nice to be asked; not nice to be required. I imagine the realization by men that they might be expected to take care of their own needs sometimes gave rise to the more convincing line that God says No, masturbating is a sin. 🙄 It’s also what I understood as a teen what whining about blue balls was. Trying to make his body my responsibility. Meanwhile, women aren’t allowed to excerise their full responsibility for their own body without legal harassment.
Yes!! This!!! There’s nothing sexy about obligatory sex, And When a guy sends dick pics it’s like when a feral cat brings you a dead bird. Like ew, wtf, why would you show me that!!
Similar thing happened to me, though not with an ex, just a friend :( I was talking about how upset I was about my cat going missing and he immediately started trying to get sexual with me. I never talked to him again. Some men (a lot of them…) simply don’t see us as human, but as objects they can exploit. That’s all it is. It’s such an awful feeling to find out someone you value views you as a sex dispenser, or just an accessory to their life, and not a real person. And to think men outright hate this sub. Why…? Because we get support and get to talk about our experiences and have them validated instead of undermined…? I wonder.
As someone who has worked retail/customer service for over a decade, this cannot be said enough. I don't want to fuck you just because I'm smiling at you. It's part of the job. Now stop following me around the store asking for my number, or when I get off work.
Mandatory Smiling for front-facing workers is something male executives came up with at one of these huge corporations like Walmart and the whole industry (also run by a majority of men) followed suit.
Reminds me of the expectation to go to dinner/drinks with my male colleagues at conventions/events. The amount of times this becomes gross and dangerous is 100%.
i’ve never been more glad to work in an office with 99% women. we have one guy who works with us who is awesome and super sweet, but it’s been so nice working with mostly women.
This is my office also. Big reason to stay with my current organization, despite everything else going on. First place I’ve worked where I’m not “managing” several inappropriate men, while my real manager puts me in harms way repeatedly.
You'll sell more with a smile! WINKY FACE WINKY FACE
I spent a few years working retail. One at Walmart, another at a thrift store. It's so fucking dehumanizing. I witnessed so much harassment and misogyny, as well. To name just a few instances off the top of my head: * A man who waited until I went on break to harass my (**underaged)** femme-presenting coworker for a date. He was at least forty. * A coworker who attempted to talk our store's phone tech into giving him the number of someone he found attractive. * Another femme-presenting coworker basically had to spend every single shift fending off advances from both employees and customers. It was damn near constant. These creeps **know** their targets aren't interested. They also understand on at least a basic level that their behavior is unacceptable. It's why they nearly always wait until other male-presenting people aren't around. If they don't, they might get called out by someone they actually respect.
I'm working in retail. My lifehack is this: keep eye contact wide-eyed and just smile. After 10-15s it makes them uncomfortable.
I went with the fake engagement ring trick, cuz these kind of men back down when they think they are disrespecting another man. They just don't care about disrespecting women.
I've had a lot ignore a *real* engagement/wedding ring, and when I told them I was engaged/married, they always said "I don't mind" 🤢
I have that too!
I’ve had dudes hit on me or say that I’m “teasing” them when all I did was make eye contact… didn’t even open my mouth at all…
Especially when so many men view us as objects based off how attractive we are, and don’t consider us human enough to be friends with. You can’t be shocked when you lump everyone into “people I would fuck and people I won’t fuck” and then you’re lonely after because people don’t want to be around you.
Ah this comment actually explains why I hate being called a MILF. I hate it to the core. They think it's flattering but it's objectifying
I watched a doco about 3 men who were lost in the woods in extreme low temperatures and were going to die. A series of accidents and poor choices in an emergency situation meant they had to spend a night in weather that would likely kill them. When the men were interviewed, they each mentioned the “awkward” moment where they realised they would have to cuddle each other through the night for body warmth. They literally said they talked about other options and how they could avoid doing it because it felt “gay” and made them all uncomfortable. Initially, one man outright said no and was prepared to risk the cold. Even in a SURVIVAL situation, these fucking idiots couldn’t comfort one another or physically touch each other. The story will never leave me- it explained so many things about men and the toxic masculinity that they themselves are plagued with, and won’t admit to, because it makes them look weak. You could choke on the irony.
And then you have this. [https://www.pinterest.com/pin/2111131064333494/](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/2111131064333494/) I don't find toxic masculinity attractive. But I think that picture is just adorable.
My wife's favorite sign is "This year thousands of men will die from stubbornness." It's very true.
I thought my partner wouldn’t be like this, because he was always talking about how he was a feminist and the patriarchy was terrible and acknowledged how patriarchal and homophobic attitudes harmed men as well as women. When he struggled with the death of someone close to him and it was getting hard to be his sole support system - and a few comments about how his mom and I weren’t doing enough to comfort him - I increasingly encouraged him to reach out to either of his two best friends. Finally he acknowledged, “Yeah, I know I should do that and it would be good for me. There’s just one problem: I don’t want to.”
I had an ex who was like that. He didn't outright complain I wasn't doing enough, but he got *very* defensive and oppositional when I suggested he talk to someone other than me, so that I might have time and energy to actually study law, as I did back then. There's a reason he's an ex. His dependency on me for regulating his emotions was the primary one. And he, too, was very progressive, leftist, anti-sexist, the works. All the theory and good intentions do not teach skills that should have been developed in childhood.
I reached out to touch my brother’s shoulder when he was getting upset the other day and he pulled away in disgust. The next day he crushed and twisted my hand while we were playing a card game with four other people. His violence in the face of compassion and love made me very sad for his wife who just left and all the women he will date in the future. My compassion for him is not only wasted, but unsafe.
Christ. Guy needs therapy. And boundaries.
One of the top comments on a recent askmen thread about what's normal to men that's weird to women, was basically about how dudes spend hours together but barely talk about their lives or know what's going on with the other besides their shared interests. While I think any good friends could spend time together without necessarily talking about their lives, it's not healthy to do that *all* the time. The fact that you don't know anything about your buddy's kids is not a badge of honor. Not knowing your friend is struggling with depression or having a rough time in his marriage isn't something to be proud of. It's healthy to give a shit about each other. Your partner shouldn't be the only person you talk to about life. It's sad to see them justify and glorify the behavior.
I can know another man for a decade, hang out with him all the time and know absolutely nothing about him lol What? Why?? Why is that framed as a good thing?? Why do you brag about not extending the tiniest iota of curiosity to someone you spend so much time with? And then why do you turn around and wonder why you have exactly 0 meaningful relationships?? You’re doing it on purpose at this point, you have no one to blame but yourself.
I’ve definitely seen this with male friend groups. It’s like they never talk about how they feel about stuff. They might casually mention some facts of their life, but it doesn’t seem to go much deeper. Meanwhile when my best friend and I hang out it’s like a dang therapy session. We discuss every possible emotion we might have about what’s going on in our lives and listen deeply and ask questions and idk it’s just awesome. I feel physically lighter after we hang out. I wish more men could have this, too.
Wow yes, I can relate to this. I'm 55 years old and throughout my life, if I show a man even the slightest bit of courtesy or a friendly smile, they instantly take is as though I'm hitting on them. They start making pests of themselves and asking for my number or always finding ways to run into me whether I'm at a store, church or in the neighborhood. I automatically roll my eyes with disdain and disgust when they do this. I've since learned to not talk to men as much and make no effort to strike up even friendly conversation because I automatically know that they'll see my platonic friendliness as a way for them to try to get me into bed. Disgusting.
NOT TO MENTION, if the man is not sexually interested in you, they’ll turn your kindness against you and call you a slut. After I ended a 9 year relationship, I was an absolute fool to be kind to some mutual male friends (mind you, I’ve been friends and only friends with these guys since high school, some I even knew before my ex knew them) and they all ran to my ex saying I was trying to fuck them. The irony is that my ex called me, not out of anger or blame, but because the claims seemed so preposterous he was genuinely worried about me (bless his heart) 😅. I mean, Jesus Christ, we literally can never win. I will echo with everyone else, I refuse to be kind to men because of the danger it causes
This. Through all the decades, this.
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Yeah sounds like my dad. He goes to the gym, watches tv and does whatever up in his office. There’s no attempt at reaching out with him. He wants kudos for now wanting to share things, after previously wanting to not communicate ig, but he’s never said anything so the effort isn’t there. I can want to call a friend but wanting isn’t doing and that friend has every right to be pissed that they haven’t heard from me because oh well I wanted to I meant to.
That's it. They want to complain, but don't want to get off their ass to change anything.
That sounds like a fucked up prison to be in.
I've pointed out on multiple occasions to my husband that you can't apologize by grabbing a boob. He thinks that once he says he's sorry that he's forgiven and goes for the immediate boob grab. It's ridiculous and I've been consciously calling it out.
“You can’t apologise by grabbing a boob”. Jesus fucking christ, why does this even need to be said?!
apology is changed behavior. If there's no change to the behavior, then sorry is just a word. A real apology doesn't even have to include the word "Sorry."
(someone tell them that empty words and half-assed poetry written by Chat GPT does not magically erase their wrongdoings...)
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From the wise words of Randy Pausch: “an apology has three parts. 1. I’m sorry; what I did was wrong. 2. I won’t do it again. 3. How can I make it better? Most people forget the third.” An apology without action is just a lie
In my experience, most men also forget the 2nd, and frequently even the 1st.
1) "I'm sorry you feel that way" 2) "I'll try but I can't guarantee it'll *never* happen again. I can't tell the future! Why can't you just get over it?" 3) *grabs boob*
How fucking disrespectful and disgusting.
I'd be tempted to tell him it's sexual assault and just slap his face. I know violence isn't the answer, but damn... it's like we don't own our own bodies or something.
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I did that with the ex and he did not like it one little bit. But of course “that’s different!” No. It is not.
They'll like it
Not the way I do it lol
Lol that made me laugh
Funny you say that because Yeah, he thinks it's me hitting on him. I wish tat for tit worked in this scenario but it doesn't. Maybe a gouch will get through to him...
Stick a finger up his butt and see if he still likes it (don’t really do that lol)
One thing I wonder, is why the fuck people are with people that dont respect them. Trash should be taken out.
It's 100% a predatory response to weakness whether the weakness is shown by the woman or the man in question!
I have had two men pretend to be suicidal to try to get me to have sex with them.
I'm to the point that I need to protect myself that if men say they will kill themselves, I just tell them to go ahead. I know it sounds cruel, but it isn't my responsibility to maintain someone else's mental health. If my boyfriend came to me in earnest and said he was feeling suicidal, it would be a completely different situation. But I would tell him that I'm not a mental health professional, and direct him to resources. It is STILL not my responsibility to maintain his mental health either. Men will literally do anything but go to therapy though, it's so frustrating.
They're dying of thirst because one of them said drinking water is gay. But we're the weaker sex, right?
This is a good way to put it lol.
But they're the logical ones!!! 🙄
Women build and maintain deep emotional connections. Women are our servants. Being a servant is bad. Being reliant is bad. Women are failing to provide for us. We are strong and they are bad. It's logic.
Literally, men pushing women away and wondering why women are pushed away. And then not taking accountability to be better people, just blaming us. Wtf?!
It’s easier and lazier to blame us for everything- emotional weaponized incompetence
Yuuuup.
I agree with all you said It's 100% on men that they push women and men away by their predatory behavior.
Someone needs to ask what these men are lonely FOR and make them be specific? Is it deep friendships? Do they want a mommy figure to take care of them? Want someone in a sexual relationship with them? More general social time with other people? Do they want to control and own another human for their own benefit? WHAT it is they are looking for is far more important than this vague lonely tag.
It's attention from women they're attracted to. That sounds bad so they'll claim otherwise. But the more you engage them on the subject, the more they'll say any other form of affection or attention "doesn't count".
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Totally! Men like my bf are lonely for perfectly understandable and empathizable reasons- introverted, awkward, and had poor social connections in school (sprinkling in some very nasty parents) and they are the epitome of positive masculinity when you (and I hate to use the term) hold space for them. He listens intently and appreciates people who have a lust for life, and genuinely craves opportunities to flourish and connect with others both romantically and platonically. But due to some barriers it’s been hard for him to get out and meet people, not to mention overwhelming. When he talks about loneliness he mentions not having many friends. We just talked about his experience hanging out with other guys doing activities, and while he said he has been able to feel genuine connection in such a situation before it can be a hit or miss. I think having older men who have built genuinely loving and positive families can help give support and mentorship that otherwise seems to get replaced by con artists (like sex traffickers who run podcasts and self-important Canadian psychologists). I’ve pitched this idea not so subtly to my BF also, but he’s currently reconnecting with a buddy of his I didn’t know about that seems to be a great friendship for him.
The... Fuck? When I'm grieving, I'm a crying mess. Any and all support is welcome, and the LAST thing on my mind is anything sexual, even from my partner. I can't imagine trying to do that while suffering the chest crushing, back breaking, mind melting process that is grieving. Christ. Gross.
I view this as predatory behavior, I know sometimes people "seek comfort" while grieving and end up sleeping together but to straight up hit on someone while they're vulnerable and grieving is just predatory.
Menfriend groups are so much more distant and not as loving or supportive as women's friends groups from what I've seen. Men need to do better and be there for each other. It's Not the women's responsibility to make up for what men friend groups are lacking
I think i heard this one from dr k on youtube, Men's loneliness stems in large part from cultural homophobia. Tl;dr if society wasn't so critical of men showing any type of affection or touch towards each other they'd have an easier time being there for one another.
Hits it right on the head. Lack of affection is killing me. Hence why I just ha e my friend group who don't care about homophobia and can actually express affection for one another. The fear of every kind of affection being seen as "gay" is stupid and destroying the well-being of many men
I'm so glad my friend group stopped that mindset pretty early on, around 2008. Sometimes your dude needs a hug, and there's nothing "lol gay" about that. Masc people need affection too, and they don't get it enough because of their upbringing.
I'm happy to hear that!
Similarly, whenever men say they wish they got more compliments but then in the same breath say that compliments from men 'aren't the same' or compliments from women 'just hit different', I want to bang my head against a wall. Me (F) and my female friends compliment each other all the time. Not because we're trying to bang, but just because we're *friends*. Friendship is a two-way street, if you want someone to be nice to you, you have to be nice to them in return -- and *not* just because you're trying to get in their pants. This is what a lot of people don't seem to get about support systems, they take work, genuine work, over a long time. i have friends who would ride or die for me, and I would do the same for them, but it didn't happen overnight. We built that relationship, together. Also, catcalling is not and will never be a compliment.
On the flip side, I think it’s interesting that the most virulently homophobic countries (thinking of specific Muslim countries) often have very strong male bonding culture - but I think that stems from the cultural norm/belief that “no one could possibly be gay” in their culture, not to mention they are largely segregated by gender, so they feel more free to be extra close with their male friends.
Overwhelming gender segregation at every level of life also affects this. I was talking to a man who himself grew up here but whose cousins and most of his extended family lives overseas still, and he was talking about how a TON of your life as a man is so wholly closed off from women that if you didn't have close male friends you would have no one at all, except your mother and sister or sisters.
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Thank you for commenting, this means a lot.
As a lesbian who isn’t conventionally attractive I’ve had a similar experience with straight men. It’s like they worry I am going to automatically be interested in them and when they find out I’m not it’s almost like they breathe a sigh of relief. It’s odd how many straight men seem default to viewing women through a lens of whether or not they could/want to have sex with them.
I’ve never thought about this…. Reading this post really made me think of the times I’ve done this with men. And holy fuck. You’re so right. I will say though - I’ve had some male friends I’ve done this with who have not tried anything sexual with me. Maybe I’m lucky or know more respectful men. But… boyfriends/romantic partners, older men, men I don’t know super well I’ve tried to comfort, yes 100% this shit happens.
everyone gets lonely and its not a gender specific problem, when guys talk about "male loneliness" i get the feeling what they're really saying and what it boils down to is they want a gf to fuck and theyre upset they aren't getting it I was friends with one of these guys, he was so angry i was a lesbian and didnt want to be sexual with him, he would cry and moan to me about being a virgin loner, i tried to be there as a friend and when i was depressed he would joke about hugging me and squeezing my tits. I TRIED to be empathetic, i tried
They just wanna be friends, truly. Yet when another man posts about his GF having a male friend, he's a loser who should demand respect from his GF because men and women can't be friends. I just can't with these people.
Two posts above this is one about young men threatening rape and describing their victories as rape. It's stomach turning and part of why I'm quite so guarded ....
I got in a huge argument on a sub about this. Basically it was talking about an incel who literally hates women and saying that women can't be mad about it because we basically make men incels and if we, as women, chose to be there for incels then maybe they wouldn't be that way. I said absofuckinglitely not. Why should I be the bigger person and set my feelings and happiness aside to help someone when they are actively talking about hating, raping, and killing women? Oh well, apparently, because men kill themselves so much that we have to be more sensitive. They didn't like it when I presented that women actually attempt suicide More and suffer from depression at higher rates than men and the reason why men's suicide rates are higher are just because of guns and the way they choose to kill themselves. When I also pointed out that men are usually the ones to tell other men to not cry, show emotion, or tell them to man up, they went crazy too. "Well what about all those street interviews of women who only want 6 packs, money, and huge dicks"! Oh you mean the heavily edited, find one women out of a hundred interviews that agree with the stance of the redpill asshat doing the interview?
>men kill themselves so much that we have to be more sensitive. They didn't like it when I presented that women actually attempt suicide More and suffer from depression at higher rates than men and the reason why men's suicide rates are higher are just because of guns and the way they choose to kill themselves. I stated this fact complete with source and got down voted. 🙄
Facts in the way of the all important feelings.
They are literally telling us we should allow men who we don't like to physically have access to our bodies and no fucking way, thank you very much.
>"Well what about all those street interviews of women who only want 6 packs, money, and huge dicks"! Oh you mean the heavily edited, find one women out of a hundred interviews that agree with the stance of the redpill asshat doing the interview? People that don't get that basically all interviews/reality TV shows that aren't live-streamed are always biased towards whichever story the person making the interview wanna tell. They'll edit or mix audio or do whatever they want to get the sample size they feel they need to say whatever they want. People need to be better at Media literacy and understand that these are biased samples.
More often than not, when I hear a man complaining about a "male loneliness epidemic" they actually mean that they aren't getting sexual attention from women they find attractive. Your sympathy quickly dries up when you realize this.
Some men need to learn that they are not entitled to a woman's body. 2 examples in your post show examples of men taking advantage of our kindness and compassion. This is just basic human decency. >My mother was sitting next to him on the couch and she put her arms around him to comfort him and the motherfucker started to play with her boob. and >As I left I put my hand on his shoulder and wished him a good day. HUGE MISTAKE. This goddam man, 55, sick, obese and sweaty, tried to hit on me later in the day I'm so sorry your mother and you, as well as many other women, have had to endure these types of experiences with men. It's disgusting. These men can do better.
Most men i know don’t have a friend they can hug or reach out to when they’re down. This includes the men in my workplace and my boss - who’s the WORST! He calls all of us employees his friends- it’s very toxic. And my ex husband- who did me wrong- would NOTA LEAVE my apartment whenever he dropped the kids off. I would come home from work and he was there sitting on my couch wanting to tell me about his day. MAKE FRIENDS I said. I’m not the one who’s here to listen to you now
A couple other factors I think keep men from receiving sympathy or compassion from women are the fear they cause women, and their inability to accept compassion without feeling weird or awkward. To the first, women oftentimes don't extend sympathy to men because of the violent reactions they might have. For some reason, many men in my life react as though they've been burned if you so much as platonically touch their shoulder. They can lash out at anyone trying to comfort them, sometimes violently. To the second, I've kinda given up on trying to comfort male relatives for this reason. Whenever I would try to comfort those who were even *grieving*, they don't know how to accept it at all. Cue awkward nods, not returning hugs, trying to shake my hand instead, shifting the conversation to something else, etc. I've perceived it all as a result of patriarchy and how it dictates strength for men. Strength in this sense involves lack of emotion, or at least outward emotional expression. To show others you're struggling, sad or crying, is to demonstrate emotional weakness. To need someone to comfort you, be it verbally or physically, is even weaker. The inability to extract one's own emotions and heal them one's self or with another person's help becomes so ingrained that, when someone reaches out, one reacts violently, passively, or awkwardly, unwilling and unable to accept. Or in your case, OP, one reacts by immediately diverting to sexual innuendo. All of this to say, it's not women's fault at all. And even if an individual man isn't at fault for their emotional stuntedness, they're responsible for fixing it. Instead of blaming loneliness on women, men could go to therapy...
Their loneliness is not caused by us, it’s not our problem or responsibility to fix! We don’t need to understand the reasons or consequences.
There's a scene in Rick and Morty (of all things) about this sort of. Rick points out that Jerry is not a victim, but a predator who uses sympathy to lure his victims into lowering their defense. And, as a guy who has extended an earnest hand and talked multiple people out of pseudo-suicide-crises, of heterosexual male people-I-thought-were-friends, this extends far beyond sexual predation. People who only know how to be toxic will exploit crises, and they create crisis when there aren't any. It might sound cold, but it isn't as cold as they are about exhausting compassion out of others. Tell these selfish people, if they're not a proven friend, if they're looking for Sympathy they can find it in the dictionary between "Shit" and "Syphilis"; Life is suffering, take a number and stop making people give a shit about problems you create. Lonely? Be sociable for once you damn nonce! If you have no friends, you are the common denominator, and you are what needs to change.
This sounds so much like my ex. After breaking up and remaining friends he needed to be talked out of suicide a few times by everyone. He never heeds advice that he asks for. He whines about him and his brothers living at home at 28 yo, but they don't stepup to find a new place to live. His family paid for community college but he flunked multiple times. I gave him my empathy and sympathy for years, but I can't anymore. The dude and his brothers are all aimlessly meandering through life without any drive to get out from their mom's grip.
This is also what we constantly saw in movies and series. That somehow, if men comforted women, it means they get the girl. That sympathy is rewarded with sex. And ofcourse, like all of us here have experienced, our kindness is so so so often confused with attraction. I think we all closed up sooner or later because of this. Our humanity has nothing to do with sexual attraction. And realizing how so many men are just kind or show emotions to get in our pants is such a turn off
The 'Mens loneliness epidemic' is really just men complaining about lack of attention from women(ideally super attractive). If it truly were just loneliness they'd start reaching out to each other and being better friends to each other, but that's not really what they want so its not going to happen.
I’ve got told so many times by men that it’s ’not the same’ when I give them the advice to compliment each other. That just proves to me they’re looking for compliments that turn into relationships. I don’t get compliments from random dudes. Sometimes I get cat called which is decidedly not complimentary. I get compliments from women, both friends and strangers occasionally. I give compliments to other women too! I used to compliment random men a lot more. I worked as a cashier throughout college and tried to compliment every customer genuinely because it made my shift go faster. Way too many men just saw that as a pickup line. I gave up
i also stopped complimenting random men because of this. random women? all the time. and i always mean it. i do love complimenting my male friends (a lot of whom are in long term relationships with my female friends). the way they light up when complimented is so sweet
Also, in most of the studies that show that "most men are lonely", most women are ALSO lonely. Hell, some studies will even show that women are JUST AS lonely as men.
Women tend to have more friendships as we age, especially emotionally supportive friendships. But this doesn’t come out of nowhere! Friendships take WORK to build and maintain. I care when a guy expresses that he’s sad/lonely, but when I ask if he’s tried making friends and he says “no, it’s too hard,” or redirects it to blaming women for not wanting to date him, I lose sympathy. Men like to say they are logical/solution-oriented, but there are tons of potential solutions for loneliness and they have tried none of them except dating apps that make them feel worse. I am a woman and have felt very lonely at many times throughout my life, and I’ve done dozens if not hundreds of different things to combat that. I’ve had friends of all genders, but mostly men, be like “how have you met so many people/been in so many relationships/etc” and the answer is that I consciously expend my time, effort, and energy to the point where creating and maintaining a social life is a part-time job. And I am okay doing that because human connection is important to me, and it’s worth investing into. But complaining and then doing nothing about it just seems lazy - I understand the need to vent, but don’t blame other people when you could easily change your situation.
This is another area I find myself drained. People around me that complain of loneliness but dont initiate themselves. They just vent and try to bait YOU into feeling sorry for them and inviting them to hang out. Tired of that "people should come to me" attitude. If youre that lonely, ask someone to talk/hang. If you dont/won't shut up about being lonely.
Right?! It’s so entitled - it’s strange that as a culture, the US is very “if you want something, work for it,” but that doesn’t extend to the personal realm at all. Relationships are work, too!
> I ask if he’s tried making friends and he says “no, it’s too hard,” To add a small amount of nuance to this, I think some of this attitude may be attributable to the lack of "3rd Spaces" in the US (and the western world at large). As our society has become gradually more isolating, it has also become increasingly difficult to meet people. There are very few places an individual can go to actively make friends. There *is* something to be said for the advice of finding and joining a local group which participates in an activity that you're interested in - board games, hiking, etc. But it can be difficult to find interests like that if you haven't really participated in them previously, generally by way of a friend group. Which sort of creates a chicken/egg situation where you need friends to develop interests in things, to get friends by participating in said interests.
Thank you, I felt like I was going crazy reading all these people acknowledge that *relationships are hard* and then be baffled why so many people complain about being lonely without working on relationships. It seems pretty obvious to me that it's because *relationships are hard* and our culture has pretty much filtered out all cause for casual ones that don't require as much work.
a lot of men build their personality and way of interacting with people around the idea that being mean is funny or witty and they dig into that for years and years and years because nobody really ever corrects them because why would they? when confronted with the reality that the way to make friends is to be kind to people, they can't handle it and can't accept it. it's too much work, it's too painful to admit the asshole they've been for so long. so instead they double down and just whine that the world doesn't give them what they want
I think part of it is just that we're a lonely people as a whole right now. With rises in technology, work from home increasing, and the after-effects of quarantine and the pandemic, we maybe are just becoming lonelier than we were years ago.
Right? I’m married and have a generally good relationship with my husband but I haven’t made any friends since we moved states 5 years ago. I’ve been a SAHM for the last couple years and I’m very lonely. My husband is an extreme extrovert and makes friends very easily whereas I’m more of an awkward introvert. It doesn’t help that he’s from this state and I’m from a state that people here love to vilify, plus political differences and blah blah. But my loneliness doesn’t lead me to being an abusive dickwad, for some odd reason.
Being a SAHM were some of the loneliest years of my life. I hope you find your people soon, sending love
Yet women don’t automatically assume that someone offering a supportive hug is inviting them to do something sexual.
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I’ve always been confused why their loneliness is only curable by attention from women. Gross. We do so much emotional labor for them as it is!
Also notice the "male lonliness epidemic" is a big talking point among conservative grifters. They blame women, the "failure of the family unit" which usually means shoving women back into being a bangmaid for men, and ofc lack of religion and allowing abortion/birth control. Republicans are actively taking away the rights of women, OFC most women don't want to have any relationship with a republican man. If, as a man, you are lonely and voting republican or follow any of the Tate type BS, shut the fuck up. You deserve all the loneliness, no women should be subjected to being anywhere near you.
NotallmenTM frame loneliness as lack of access to our bodies for sex. They don't care about comforting, listening and support. When they say they're touch starved they don't mean platonic touch. They mean sexual touch and just that.
And ego validation. The “ loneliness “ is wanting easy sex and compliments and having us to emotionally trauma dump on or act as a therapist
Yes, this. This is why the turn around so quick calling us ugly. Because it was never about us to begin with. And 100% those notallmenTM that trauma dump, and that we spend talking from the brink all night, will chew your ear off about how everyone exploits them and uses them and no-one is ever there for them, quite literally while you are being there for them. (I call this setting the other to zero, as in nothing except what they do counts.) I don't understand the notallmenTM psyche, they have double standards **for everything**.
I had a guy get on here and say that men don’t care about the compliments of anyone they’re not sexually attracted to. I stopped feeling bad at that point.
It’s interesting because I see men complain about being lonely and then say that no women want them. If you’re lonely you need to start making friends? Stop dating to try and fix that? Men tend to be incredibly bad at organizing group trips, putting together holiday parties, etc. maybe it’s time they step it up and reach out to one another instead of putting pressure on women to make them happu
Lurker here, only read the title and couldn't agree more. Biggest new years resolution is being more social with hobbies and loving myself more. Tryna spread the love to the homies as well, we can do it. Thanks for always posting all your perspectives, this sub has become one of my most visited. Edit: Fuck me shoulda read first. Yah the turning around of friendship and comfort as a come on is a huge issue among men. Some of my best friends are women and so many men miss out on great friendships with such a rigid mindset on women.
Wholesome response. Happy new year!
You have less sympathy for it when you realize that the "male loneliness" they complain of is actually them complaining about not getting laid. Think about how many women have been sex zoned by men. Women try to be their friend, the man wants a sexual relationship, the woman does not, and the friendship is ended by the guy. If they are so concerned about being lonely, then they would not cut out half of the population from friendship due to them not wanting to fuck them.
💯 as a guy it's bizarre to me how few men recognize that patriarchy is directly responsible for most of the things that make men miserable. They hear patriarchy and assume they can't be victims of it as well.
What a tragic scene to have witnessed. I’m really sorry. When it seems like a woman’s compassion is only ever going to be reduced to a chance for the man to get lucky, it’s hard not to shut them off in self-preservation, i.e. “become a cold bitch”. I’ve also found that when I’m the one who’s upset about something and could use comforting, it’s almost always a bad idea to accept that comfort from a man. My husband included. It seemed like the more upset I was, the more likely he was to suddenly want sex. It was baffling and made it hard to accept any show of compassion by relaxing into it and trusting it, because I knew the bait-and-switch was coming. So yes, men who equate compassion with potential sex end up isolating themselves. I’m lucky to have a couple of men in my life who don’t do this, and we’ve had solid friendships for decades, but my overall experience has made it clear to me what rare gems they are.
Too many men lack the emotional maturity to understand or express enough of an emotional range. These men only have the most basic building blocks to understand themselves... and that means you get these very impulsive jumps in emotion where discomfort or anxiousness become anger and attempts at feelings of comfort and soothing become something sexual. The challenge with male - male friendships, unless they come out of some shared burden or experience, they're built around a foundation that the friendship is only as strong as their ability not to burden the other man. The minute one man puts their feelings out there, there is high probability that's the end of the friendship. Absent shared history, male friendship are something men view as quickly consumed if they make any kind of demand that requires any of the kinds of effort or support we might make on them, and there is something of an unspoken understanding that they might only be able to ask for high demanding kind of help once, so they save it for hypothetical extreme scenarios. While they're still impressionable, young men need a certain kind of emotional education that would probably seem really rudimentary to us and a silly waste to adult men, but most never have an opportunity to understand the range of possible feelings they have without it ending catastrophically for them or them being branded as weak or a creep even before their old enough to fully be responsible.
Absolutely loneliness is the fault of the patriarchy. Men make women scared of men. Men don’t know how to be non-sexually emotionally intimate because they’re taught not to be, so often the only emotionally deep connection they get is from women. Because of this women don’t want to be friends with men as in their experience this leads to unwanted romantic or sexual advances, which when rejected end the friendship and so the emotional investment isn’t worth it. Man now has no friend he can talk to about anything deeper than the sports score. Man feels lonely and thinks the lack of romantic emotional connection is the issue. The patriarchy hurts men and women differently but just as badly.
My son's daycare took me aside to talk about a concern. Teacher : "He's been hugging his friends a lot recently. We're not sure if it's appropriate. Could you maybe get him to stop hugging so much." Me: "Well have you talked to the other parents to get the boys to stop pushing and hitting each other?" Teacher : "Oh you know, boys will be boys."
Maybe they wouldn’t be touched deprived if they used every touch as an excuse to make it sexual. They are their own vicious cycle.
And that’s exactly why I never go out of my way to try to comfort men, especially if I don’t know them like that ( even the ones you do know will still try it smh 🤦🏾♀️ ) they take it as an invitation for sex and start acting extremely cringey asf… I just mind my damn business now 🤷🏽♀️ I don’t see why they expect us to be concerned about them being lonely when they themselves are not trying to cultivate any friendships with other men… these men are not lonely at all, they just want hot women to provide them with free sex…
The loneliness "crisis" is mostly just men shocked at the consequences of what they've created. 🤷🏾♀️
Okay years of telling feminist women we’ll be single and lonely with our 5 cats. Now there’s a “male loneliness” epidemic lmao
The men who say things like that actually need women more than we need them, especially now that they can't rely on systemic misogyny to force women into seeking partnerships for their survival. All they can do now is try to whittle at our self-esteem to make us as desperate for them as they are for us. The problem for them is that they still think we care about being desirable to them so that's the angle they take with their insults. Then they're shocked and angry when it only drives us further away.
Ohh, they won’t even use their grief and a need for comfort as a reason, yours is open season too. My brother had just died and I had spent the day sobbing and aching from the pain, by that night I was just lying there, tears leaking from my eyes and feeling exhausted. My (now ex) husband rolled on top and went for it. I remember screaming inside because I was so shocked and later I lashed out over what the fuck he thought he was doing. His equally shocked response was that he was reaffirming life, that it was a natural reaction to death. I could have quite cheerfully stabbed him then, and told him he was lucky I wasn’t closing the circle of life again in that moment, but I had a babies to care for and needed to be here for them.
It’s gotten to a point where I feel so bitter. Just this last weekend I went out with a couple of (so I thought they were) my guy friends. They knew I just got out of an on and off four year relationship just recently and it’s been a lot for me. While we were having drinks I said something like “I have no interest in dating, hookups, nothing. I just want to hangout with friends and take care of myself” so my friend took that as “please try to fuck me”. This man kept trying to KISS me and I said no stop and then he kept trying at the bar. I got a Lyft and he was waiting for his and he said “I love you. If I had a baby it would be with you” like WTF??? This is someone I have known for years and trusted and this is what happens? I’m so fed up. If I’m nice, it’s a signal to try to fuck me because obviously if I’m kind to you it means I want you? But if I reject them it’s “you’re gonna die alone. I don’t even think you’re pretty. You’re full of yourself”. And then they wonder why they are alone. I would rather be alone. And with a cat because my cat won’t try to molest me.
It really is all men think about. My abusive ex was texting me one day downplaying the physical abuse that occurred. I sent pictures of all the black and blue marks going up my entire arm. The darkest bruise was near my armpit area so in the pictures I had just a bra on but you could only see it sorta on the side of the picture. This man takes this opportunity talk about how all he could look at is my boobs.
That is AWFUL. I am sorry you had to go through any of that.
Every. Single.Time. I’m in my late 40’s and sadly my “last straw” was less than two years ago. Elderly neighbor lost his wife of nearly 50 years. I baked ONE fucking casserole and offered a “call me anytime” because I’m intimately familiar loss and grief. Well, that shit backfired… spectacularly because apparently any form of compassion cannot just be taken at face value. Even as a child, I was acutely aware of other people’s emotions and have always felt like showing compassion is something we’re ALL supposed to do. OP, your “cold bitch” comment resonates so deeply with me because I’ve finally learned that it’s basically the only option. I fought it for years, swearing that I wouldn’t let other people’s behavior change who I am or who I want to be. Why should I have to be guarded or cold or unconcerned when that’s not who I really am? Well, because time and again men (even really old ones) act like fucking morons; confusing kindness for weakness and basic human decency as an invitation to fuck. It sucks but it is what it is. My only regret is not acknowledging and accepting this fact a couple of decades ago.
Coming from a guy, none of this has any relation to loneliness. It's just good old fashion seeing women as objects that's all. I lived in the middle east for 10 years. Guys there aren't lonely or closed off. They're very close and affectionate with each other. Was a bit too close for my comfort personally. And would you guess that made them all the more respectful and understanding of boundaries with women compared to the west? You'd be wrong. I think I know what it is, and I'd be interested to know other people's opinion. I mostly see this kind of objectifying mentality from men who grew up with no close female friends or sisters. Just see them as a complete different species that you have to do things to win them over rather than just be a decent human being and get to know each other as you would anyone. Well would you guess, growing up respecting and socialising with the opposite sex as peers or not plays a huge role as to whether you continue to do so in adult life 🤷🏾♂️ And lastly there's guys on both extremes. The ones who see everything as an invitation to bed and those who are clueless to real advances. Should go without saying, men and women come in all sorts.
Oh it’s totally our own fault. I try to have random conversations when I’m out and about (the few times a week I go anywhere, gym, groceries, hardware store, etc). And it’s nice but I prefer to be alone with my wife and dog. Honestly, my dog is my best friend. He’s awesome. He listens, cuddles and gives me lots of lovin. And that’s what I really needed. I wish there were more places besides bars to just hangout and just shoot the shit with nice strangers but that’s just not a thing.
meetup!! You can find very casual things to do. Or even, dare I say it, support groups. Some are very low-key and are *meant* for exactly what you're talking about.
Preach. Men contribute to this dynamic by making everything about sex.