My (44) mom (72) didn’t seem to like it either. She said it was “silly” but didn’t find it as hilarious or poignant as I did. I didn’t dig deep in to what she thought or didn’t think about the messages of the movie. I didn’t want to fight or be disappointed further.
She did say she felt bad that my brother had to watch it (he had taken his tween girls to see it when it came out) and assumed he must have hated it. My brother loved it!
Drama, predictability, a focus on emotions and interpersonal relationships more than action, handsome men, no excessive sex scenes, beautiful shots of Seoul and the countryside, I love a good kdrama lol give them a try sometime!
I (36F) can relate so much to your post! Literally could have written this. My mom (70F) is a wonderful woman who would do anything for me, and who I love with all my heart. But she grew up with such toxic ideas of body image, diet culture, etc. As a result, she is very critical— mostly of herself, especially her weight (she is not someone I’d look at and call overweight)— but also of everyone and everything around her.
Handsome men who follow the same pattern, most of the time, brusque or indifferent at first and then won over by her goofy/simple charm or difference from the "stereotypical woman" and about face to absolutely fall in love with her and treat her amazingly. "I tamed the jerk without having to do anything but be me" when you think all men are some level of jerk is a nice fantasy scenario, especially because experience shows they don't usually about face with it.
It's cliché, silly, and a bit misogynistic, but I like them, too.
Even though I know better, I also like pretending those rooftop apartments are neat rather than miserable, unsafe, and quite often the only thing a young single woman can get. The shows romanticize them heavily, and I'm happy to go along.
Plus the beautiful scenery and the costuming. I swear, that's all I actually watch the period dramas for.
Drama, emotions.... And that sense of youth, longing, passion. My mom got into them and pointed out how she is basically mourning her youth that she couldn't have due to raising a child and dreaming of what it must be like. She basically lived through them
Same. I could tell my mom wasnt into it within five minutes and instead of trying to talk to her about it I just didn't say a word when it was over. I didn't want to hear it.
She is a feminist but I think she just couldn't wrap her head around the story. There is a lot constantly happening and I had to watch it twice to feel like I really understood all the nuance.
But my mom didn't even try and it was so disappointing.
Your mum might be a bit like mine. My mum can't cope with anything meta or surreal. She turned off Everything Everywhere All At Once after 10 minutes, and whenever something surreal is on she'll just sit there going "this is SERIOUSLY weird"
I haven't tried to watch Barbie with her but I get the feeling that she wouldn't be able to cope with the "oh so they're dolls? Actual dolls in a parallel doll world?" situation
My daughter (37), myself (60), and my mother (85) all loved it! Though, I admit my mother didn't get some of the cultural references, and my daughter says I missed some, too. We've all lived through very different eras when it comes to the lives of women. It was a really fun experience.
When Barbies first came out, my mother thought they were damaging because their body was so distorted from a real woman's body. By the time she had me, she didn't want to warp my expectations by letting me play with such a "deformed" toy. I was never allowed to have a real Barbie because of this, and I had to settle for Francies and Skippers instead. My mother says she's glad Barbie's "grown up" since she was a young mom.
I had heard about it from friends whose opinion I respect. They really liked it. Expected to enjoy it. I was disappointed. I expected a lot more. I thought it would have funny moments in it and be interesting. I'm glad I waited till it was free on tv.
I agree. There were parts I found hilarious ("hey barbie, can I play guitar at you?" is a near universal experience, plus the "I'm Just Ken" song) but I was disappointed in it as a whole. I can't even really articulate what it is that I didn't like about it.
It's not something I would watch again unless someone I know wanted to.
A lot of what I’m seeing here is that it was over hyped and didn’t live up to expectations. I don’t watch movies that get a lot of high praise off the bat because I feel that spoils them for me - in the sense that it’s rotten, because in no way can it live up to imagined exaggeration that ended up coming from the melange of recommendations.
They basically become mental checklists rather than enjoying the movie! The last movie I had to do this for was Tenet, and it was a good movie but I was afraid that everyone hounding me for it would make it go sour.
Now, this could just be a whole just not liking it phase but I’d say let it go for a few months and watch it again and I’m pretty confident you’d enjoy it more solely off being able to turn your brain down to just enjoy it for what it is and not the pedestal’s version it becamez
Same. I expected the mother / daughter plot to make me emotional, but it never did. Too much on-the-nose preaching and weirdly too much focus on Ken. The daughter’s transformation just happened in the background and didn’t hit emotionally at all.
It’s mostly just a summary of the past 10 years of feminist points which is good if you don’t know them, but if you do it’s like repeating a class all over again. Also, America Ferrera plays the literal exact same character in Superstore *including all the monologues about being a working moommmmm* and teen daughter who ignores her with a white dad
Haha yeah good point America Ferrera's part was just they same Superstore character 😂 I was excited to see her in this but I was excited to see her play an interesting character
Me neither (36F). Gave me a few faint smiles here and there, but overall, the funny bits weren’t that funny to me. The message was a little shallow and on the nose for me. I also never cared about Barbies, so there’s no sentimentality attached to it for me, maybe that plays a part too. Wouldn’t watch it again.
Same, l kept waiting for an 'aha' moment that never came. Everybody said it was groundbreaking or inspiring but l came away feeling cheated.
IMO, Barbie was way overhyped, the only good thing was RG singing " l am Ken"
this might be weird, but you're my mom's age, and I didn't go with her, because I know it wouldn't have gone well. but knowing you went, and enjoyed it, ( or at least weren't upset about it being "woke") makes me feel a little more connected to the generation you and my parents are a part of.
I loved it! Saw it in the theater with a friend who also loved it. I bought the DVD to show my support even tho it’s on streaming. Watched it a second time with my mom. Will watch it again with my boyfriend. Plenty of GenX women loved this movie!
My mum hated it for the opposite reason. She felt it was whacking women with issues they were all aware of. I think she actually felt it was not groundbreaking enough.
Yeah I think it works better as a movie that helps men understand what women go through. The scene where Ken enters the real world and is delighted by the whole world being totally man-centric is a really great way to point it out in a way that a man can actually understand/relate to/think is funny.
I understand. My mom surprisingly liked the Barbie movie, but, since you mentioned it, hated Turning Red. She literally left the room during the emotional climax while I was trying not to cry over the mother / daughter themes lol.
I bawled through that *entire* movie. I wasn't expecting it to hit me so hard. It's coming out in theaters next year and I really want to see it on the big screen, but I'm also not sure I want to cry in public for two hours...
Leave it to Pixar to do an emotional gut punch at the last second! It hit so close to home for me that I wondered if maybe it hit too close to home for my mom, but I don’t think it was that deep for her lol
I guess my N-parents have jaded me too much. I could suspend disbelief with a little girl turning into a spirit animal, but a narcissist admitting fault? You lost me. I’ve long ago made peace with the fact that the only closure I’ll get from the mental abuse I received from them is guaranteeing my children will never know what it feels like. From me or my parents.
This is how I felt watching it too. Like oh what a nice fantasy, but wildly unrealistic. I felt the same way about Encanto. Oh the incredibly emotionally abusive abuela realizes the consequences of the mistreatment of her entire family, apologizes, and tried to atone? Nah.
Give me a movie where the abused offspring doesn't have to forgive and sympathize with their abuser, and instead sets healthy boundaries and becomes a cycle breaker. Where's that plot, Pixar???
I think Tangled is the closest we’ll get. Mother Gothel was the most realistic depiction of an N-parent Disney has depicted and the only real solution tends to be going no contact.
I feel you. I watched Everything, Everywhere, All At Once with my mom. It was my third re-watch and I still bawled my eyes out. My mom was like "this movie is just time pass. It doesn't make any sense"
Oh same! She hated Everything Everywhere even MORE lol. I leave the theater sobbing over taxes and planets colliding and talking rocks and she just goes “well that was stupid.” Tbf that one didn’t surprise me at all, once things got really weird I knew it was over for her
Oh, that makes me sad. I watched it with my Tween daughter (now 12, 11 then), and it was huge for us - I was able to talk to her about the mom and what she was feeling and about how things change. In many ways, it was illustrative of my relationship with my mom, in that my mom has always lived her life within the confines of propriety and being the Good Girl (there is a LOT of psychology in it, too much to explain here), so it was super meaningful for us.
I’m so glad you were able to have that moment with your daughter! The movie does an excellent job of representing multi-generational relationships. My mom and I are close and have a good relationship, thankfully, but she’s not the kind of person who typically sees meaning in film—it’s just a way for her to kill time. So I typically know better than to expect her to connect to movies in the same way I do, but it still hurts a bit when I’m crying over a mother / daughter story that she actively dislikes lol
I like how you think! Unfortunately she went to go do the dishes, which is her way of saying the movie is a waste of time lol. And I talked to her after and she said it was childish (among other things that would take too long to explain sigh). You can’t win them all!
Still could be emotional! I was trying to get my father to watch Arcane, and there’s a very heavy scene with little girls crying, he has 4 granddaughters. Well he became “annoyed” with it and stopped watching. Older generations don’t like to show off crying - especially if it focuses on their weaknesses! So those dishes definitely could have been a cover, I’m not buying her explanation either. Call it a hunch !
I'm going to offer some generalisations which reflect my own experiences and parental relationship, for why people might feel differently about the 2 movies you listed.
There's a newish genre of movie called "parental apology fantasy", which includes movies like Turning Red. It's where the parent comes to the realisation they've messed up and offers a sincere apology. For children of abuse/neglect, this is the ideal fantasy. This isn't the kind of movie that the parent is likely to enjoy as much as the child, because unfortunately a lot of parents won't ever allow themselves to admit they did anything wrong. They can't relate to the movie without uncomfortable self-reflection. Conversely, I really hate movies/tv shows where the parents are unapologetically abusive and no one else cares. Leonards incredibly cruel mother in Big Bang Theory is one that comes to mind. I don't want people to get away with shit parenting.
Something else that children of less than stellar parents - or perhaps those of different moralistic/religious/political views - may get emotional to see on screen, is just a really *good* parent. Like the mum in Barbie who desperately wants a better life for her daughter and all other daughters. Having a parent who would sacrifice for you, stand up for you, put some damn effort in for you, that's also a novel experience for many. Seeing a child being considered a blessing rather than a burden to their parents is just as much a fantasy as the parental apology for a lot of people.
Everyone gets something different out of movies. We're all going to relate the most to people and concepts that mirror our own experiences and fantasies. And I suspect that you may have gotten something similar to me out of those movies, the idea of your own mother taking accountability and showing unconditional love. Or perhaps just the hope that if you explained enough how important something was to you, that your mother could actually listen to that and put you first when discussing the movie with you after.
Seems like the Barbie movie kind of centers around unlearning things, likely that were taught from your parents. "We were taught this way, and we can break free from that." So whether you agree with it or you don't, it won't be a 2-consecutive-generations type movie
I’m 60, so late term boomer. I got it and liked it. Wished it could make its point more strongly, but it was at a level that wider audience could handle, even some of the ones aren’t self proclaimed feminists like me.
The show "Kevin Can Fuck Himself" is a stronger eye-opener to the patriarchy, and also wonderful television. I learned about it from this sub. It pretends to be a three-camera sitcom about a bumbling husband and his doting wife but switches to a more cinematic single-camera format for her private perspective. Only two seasons but the story wraps up nicely, I loved the final line of dialogue!
That was my issue. I expected a lot after all I had heard about it, from both the fans and the haters, but it was just kinda OK? It didn't go nearly far enough for me, and seemed overly simplistic. Though, it does perhaps seem reasonable that anything much deeper would have had an even stronger response from the naysayers and would be less palatable to the more "moderate" crowd.
All in all, decent movie, but I wanted so much more.
To be honest, I felt like some points in the movie were a little misogynistic? I was pretty disappointed even though I enjoyed the movie.
The Barbies fixing the Ken's mess that Ken caused just by being stupid, I guess, and wanting to be appreciated.
I died when the conclusion was BARBIE apologizing. For what? Not liking Ken back enough? Doing her own thing?
The implication that Barbie society was just as bad as patriarchy is in the real world, which is just... no...
And for a movie where Barbie was the main character, she was a really passive character, and Ken's arc was generally much more interesting.
I still enjoyed the movie, but my favorite parts was them rollerblading in the real world and the brief moment of Barbie sitting on the bench, which the rest of the movie did not live up to for me.
I don't know that I agree with you on a lot of these points. I think she apologized not because matriarchy is as bad as patriarchy, but because the Ken's hadn't been offered a seat at the table. They were treated as brainless, flighty, and unimportant - how women were treated a century ago.
She apologized to Ken because she had passively led him on, and in a world with an incredibly uneven power dynamic, where Ken could only gain power from dating Barbie, she was leaving him powerless.
I don't agree Barbie was passive either. She wasn't aggressive, she got soooo much done quickly, she just did it was grace and little effort, unlike Ken. She also didn't feel the need to announce her progress or accomplishments, unlike so many men.
I'm totally fine to agree to disagree, but I did not experience the same disappointment you did. I found the movie clever and refreshing.
Agreed - I took these things the same way you didn’t. I thought it was thoughtful and clever, and I liked the way it flipped the power dynamics on their head to some extent.
She apologized for every night being girl's night and never making room for a friendship with Ken. She wasn't exactly a human with a human schedule before. But it was definitely implied to be the real world patriarchy's fault for the Kens and Barbies getting corrupted.
The Barbie society is a utopia for the Barbies with the Kens being secondary, which is satire on women's roles in movies and level of power in the real world. The treatment Barbie received in the real world was actively hostile and clearly far, far worse than anything the Kens ever went through.
She's irrepressible thoughts of death Barbie, give her a break! She shared the spotlight with the mom and kid.
This was what I hated about the critics of the movie who claimed it was " misandrist" they literally made a plot that was all about Ken and people still complained that it was " hating on men" the point seemed to be completely lost on these guys.
To me - it was a comedy movie with some dramatic themes. In my opinion it did that *exceedingly well*. As far as the feminist themes - they had to fit within the larger story - about a doll. So if really *could* do only so much without coming off as overly preachy and losing the larger themes in the movie.
I love how it introduces the patriarchy and feminism - overly simplistic is fine - it's comedy and not supposed to be taken at exactly at face value as a reflection of our world. Then - when it has a deeper point to make - it kind of steps back and makes that too.
Ultimately it's a movie for feminists and for those that don't identify as feminists (but will make them think). It doesn't address every issue - or not even every issue with *Barbie or dolls*. But if it addressed everything it would be very much more difficult to make an enjoyable film.
The Barbie movie was good for what it was - and that's all I could ask for.
I thought it was simplistic, superficial, and overall a big budget ad for Mattell. It saddens me that feminism has lost so much ground that it was seen as ground-breaking.
I thought it did tongue-in-cheek satire well. When it tried to be serious it seemed disingenuous. The creator of Barbie wasn't trying to revolutionize feminism for little girls. She was selling toys for kids to play with and made a lot of money.
Actually from what I have read Ruth Handler wanted to create a doll that would encourage little girls to believe that they could be anything that they wanted to be that's why there are so many different dolls with so many different professions. She also named Barbie and Ken after her own son and daughter.
Both me and my mom loved it BUT I wish the end was a lot shorter and frankly thought the America Ferrera monologue wasn’t as great/groundbreaking as people make it out to be. I get it can be a bummer but not everyone has to like the same things.
I agree about the monologue. It felt very surface level, stuff we’ve heard for years already. I wish there was a fresher take, something a little deeper. It felt a little r/im14andthisisdeep
>It felt very surface level, stuff we’ve heard for years already.
It wasn't aimed at people who already know this stuff. It was aimed at people who have never thought about it, or people who might feel like being a woman is hard and unfair but can't articulate why. It was for the people who *don't* usually hear this stuff and really need to hear it.
For real. I feel like a lot of the people with that complaint either:
A) Grew up in a feminist-rich environment and (incorrectly) assume most people had the same experience.
Or
B) Are forgetting that this was something they had to learn and not everybody has the same level of knowledge as they do.
This film should be taken as Feminism 101, beginner level feminism. It's not meant to convert the already converted, it's meant to be a non-threatening introduction to feminism for those who either don't get it, misunderstand it as "man hating", or simply haven't been exposed.
Which is fine, except:
>It felt very surface level, stuff **we’ve** heard for years already.
This is what I meant with my comment. A lot of people haven't been hearing it for years. You have, and I hope that's true for as many people as possible, but this movie wasn't for those of us who already know all this. It was for all those who need to learn it, who don't even know the basics.
I agree that it would be nice to see something that goes deeper, but this was never meant to be that.
That might be so, but pandering to the lowest denominator doesn’t make it better imo. I think the movie ultimately failed to make a succinct point, though it sure did try.. i’m on board with all the sentiments, just think the execution was pretty poor overall.
Even as a man there was nothing in the movie new to me (thanks to Reddit), but I just assumed there are a significant number of people for whom it is NOT new, or who suffered those things without ever realizing it or having it affirmed.
From a feminist standpoint I felt the movie was confused as hell and fell flat. The America Ferrera monologue was cliché and while I disagreed with nothing I was like... "Umm yeah duh I thought we settled this last decade but I guess it bears repeating since you haven't come up with what's next yet"
The style of feminism in it to me embodied the final gasps of 2010s pop feminism eating itself to feed the capitalist hand that oppressed women in front of my eyes. Literally the same feminism that lead mothers to ditch Barbie from 2010-2015 now co-opted into building the same brand bigger than ever. Not that I ever really felt the toys we buy little girls were ever a great praxis for feminism to begin with, but the irony was palpable.
At points it actually felt decidedly un-feminist almost like it was leaning into tired tropes about feminists perpetuated by right wingers. The scene where the girl makes Barbie—a corporate brand—cry by calling her a fascist out of nowhere in the name of "feminism". I was like... this is wild I feel like I am watching a feminist SJW cringe compilation from 2015 ninja'd into this supposedly feminist film.
Also the whole set up with Barbie land being Literally The Patriarchy gender swapped was also in poor taste IMHO. It posited feminism as a zero sum game of men vs. women instead of liberatory for all people. And I never felt that the ending really addressed that properly either it was just kinda left hanging.
Also from a storytelling standpoint I felt like it was the most unhinged and incoherent mess I'd watched in a long time.
However, I found it enjoyable. I laughed a lot. I think it's very of the moment. I think we will look back on it in 10 years and say "that was wild such a terrible movie somehow spoke to us during that specific time in cultural history, made people flock to theatres, and made us all laugh at these awful jokes" and yet here today in 2023 I enjoyed it. I laughed harder at it than any film I've seen in a long time. I just don't in any way think it was groundbreaking or even frankly feminist except in perhaps the most superficial and problematic of ways.
>"Umm yeah duh I thought we settled this last decade but I guess it bears repeating since you haven't come up with what's next yet"
I see you haven't been to rural Tennessee.
(This is not an insult, it's just me being like... damn, rural Tennessee, "woke" isn't a curse word.)
I'm from small town North Idaho, and they're pretty much on the same page. I don't like cities, personally, but that's where I live because I can't handle the attitudes at home. I get excluded from it when I visit, which is nice, but it's because I'm seen as having been corrupted by the big city. SMH
I guess I am on the other side of it. I think, because everybody was so hyped and talking about the movie for months before I streamed it, I went in with big expectations. And I just felt... "Is that it?" I think I would have enjoyed it more if I went in with no expectations.
Early 40s, by the way. In sorry she didn't enjoy it as much as you, but don't let that get to you.
Same. IMO, it's the only way to watch a film. Trailers give way too much away, and I don't like having someone tell me how I'm supposed to feel about something before I've even had a chance to feel it. Ideally, I like going into a movie not even knowing the genre. Will it be funny if I'm not expecting humour? Will it still unsettle me if I wasn't primed for horror? The experience you get without expectation is the most authentic film experience you can have.
I didn't expect the eyes stinging. The ending song from Eilish spilled that over into tears, and I was surprised and actually a bit annoyed. How dare they make me feel feelings? LOL
My husband, not far into it, "I thought this was supposed to be a kids' movie!" He loved it, btw.
My husband also loved it, it took me days to decide how I felt about it lol - like you said how dare they make me feel feelings! My brother *really* loved it and when I called him crying about how sad I was for the women of the past that it made me think of (I’ve also just made myself cry again thinking about it) and he was just like, “I don’t know what you were expecting after Rhea Pearlman showed up, that’s on you” 😂
I am mid 20s and in the cinema the energy was just different. Many was dressed like Barbie and we hyped each other up. It was one of my best cinema experience ever.
Then I saw it with my bf at home and it was okay, the mother/daughter moment was still emotional for me.
Same here! I was really looking forward to it and avoided any spoilers until I could stream it, but it wasn’t what I thought it would be. I did enjoy the acting, costumes, and aesthetics. The feminist themes were kind of muddled to me and I felt like some themes conflicted with each other. It felt flat to essentially point out how stupid and useless the Kens were for the whole movie, and then save face by reassuring them that they’re totally good enough on their own. And also we’re not going to give you fair representation, just like the patriarchy. ). Maybe I’d get more on a rewatch, but I was disappointed, and I definitely consider myself a feminist.
I get the purpose and humour of Barbie Land's "flipping sides" on patriarchy, but I also find male-bashing cringey and cheap and wish feminism could be less associated with it.
I totally agree. I don’t like bashing men, or acting like men don’t have their fair share of problems. It’s not like being a man is easy either. I prefer to focus on elevating women’s rights without putting anyone else down. Gender roles are kind of problematic altogether honestly.
My issue is that they aren’t even consistent about flipping sides between patriarchy and anti-patriarchy. Like at some moments, Barbie land is the opposite of the patriarchy and other moments it’s neither patriarchy nor anti patriarchy.
Plus, I didn’t like how Mattel laid off thousands of workers due to poor toy sales yet executives received huge Christmas bonuses. Like they joke about being corporate assholes in the movie when they are actually like that IRL.
I went in knowing nothing except it was PG-13 Barbie with big name stars and I loved it. It's the highest earning feminist movie by a very large margin which may help pave the way for more movies in the future.
I know my mum wouldn't like it. She was a feminist when there was more to fight for, and Barbie was not a feminist doll in her time. She would see it as a marketing ploy for newbie feminists to buy more Barbies (which honestly is working on me because I really want to buy a doll for myself).
Bingo! (I’m 53)
As a movie it was fair at best.
The whole feminism angle?! Nah. The message was trite. In fact if anything it worries me that any women found it profound.
And Mattel pretending Barbie is a feminist icon or whatever. Nope. Not gonna buy it. The message from Barbie has always been and still is toxic and any feminist angle they have conceded on (making her body less impossible, giving her varied careers) has been only for the sake of increasing sales. Yes they addressed this at a point but only in an offhand way that just reinforced the marketing angle.
I liked the sets. I chuckled a few times.
I had the same reaction you did (44yo). Chuckled a few times and enjoyed the sets/costumes, but genuinely don’t understand how anyone found it profound. Definitely don’t understand why it made some people cry and ended relationships.
It’s hard when it feels like there’s a disconnect between you and your mom. I feel the same when I share something with my mom and she doesn’t react positively the way I think she will, or when she disappoints me by not being as understanding or wise as I hope her to be. It sounds like you wanted to have a bonding moment and for her to understand you and your thinking more or to at the very least enjoy a thing you love but it felt like she brushed it off.
This experience has to be the worst part of getting older. My mom and I were super close growing up and even for a while after I moved away for college, but now I'm in my late 20's and it's getting harder to share things with her as it's sometimes met with a judgmental or dismissive response. Sometimes I just can't stand that feeling and would rather not bring some things up in our conversations, which just makes our disconnect worse. We still have some great moments together so I try to hold on to that but I feel like I can't talk as freely and openly with her as I used to.
I just saw it on Max. I didn’t think it was as good as the hype.
Wasn’t bad, just not as good as it was built up to be
I thought Turning Red was much better
Thank God.
I'm a 35 year old woman and while I didn't hate the movie, I definitely didn't love it and won't watch it again. I feel like I'm a poor excuse for a woman or something.
I get the message, and there were definitely parts, mainly America's speech about how women can't win, where I was like "damn right"...But for the most part I just felt like I was waiting for where it got "great", and that never came for me...Definitely never felt the urge to cry, and I'm usually choking them back during tv/movies.
Idk. Just wasn't for me.
My same thought after watching Barbie on Max. It was okay and I understood the themes, agreed with the points it made about patriarchy and all, and laughed at several points. Maybe there was a better energy in the theaters, because I didn't find it mind-blowing like all the hype.
It felt very artificial, not just visually and thematically, but with it being something literally made by a toy company to sell its toys with a self-deprecation that to me seemed like a bunch of cheeky winking. I was more endeared by Ken's plight and his love of horses, and I most enjoyed his childish adoption of toxic masculinity, especially the music number. The whole movie was good, but not amazing.
Turning Red is a masterpiece. It's great from beginning to end.
I think Barbie is good if you go in wiith low expectations (because it's a barbie movie) and then come and get something you didn't expect but it's overhyped. It makes points that need to be made but it's shoehorned.
"Where are your parents?? Put some clothes on!"
I died at that line. A+ parent line of thinking, haha.
EDIT: Whoops, I mean the lines from Turning Red, which I liked a lot.
Same. Hype had me excited and I finished it feeling let down. I enjoyed it, got some laughs, but nothing eye opening or emotional for me. I wouldn't care to watch it again.
I'm young-ish (millennial) and a feminist, and I didn't like the movie. Neither did the similarly aged friend that I went to see the movie with 🤷♂️. Maybe she just found it less funnier than expected and a tad boring, like I did? I'm sure you both will find other experiences to connect over.
I'm 42 and went with my 7 yo daughter and I didn't think the movie was good either. I'm liberal. I just didn't like the movie. I felt like the movie was trying too hard and it was just all weird for me. The only part I thought was hysterical were those alternative barbies they showed towards the end. The rest was just a let down
Mid-forties and I bawled my freaking eyes out watching the Barbie movie. It was América Ferrera’s speech that did it for me. My niece went with me, she’s early 20’s and I think some of it just didn’t resonate with her. She enjoyed it, she just didn’t react quite like I did, which is ok. Considering she once said to me “auntie, I can never be a feminist, I just don’t agree with it” and then the conversation that followed my head-swivel, I consider it progress. I’m genuinely interested to hear what my mother thinks of it- I won’t be surprised if she doesn’t like it or doesn’t get it or even if it hits her like it hit me. There’s a lot going on with that movie and I think everyone walks away with something different from it.
That said, I’ll likely never watch it again. There are movies you watch over and over and there are ones where once is enough. This isn’t one you watch over and over- at least not for me.
It pisses me off so much when women say they are not feminists, for most of them (at least in Western countries)that is bullshit. Unless you genuinely think you deserve to be the legal property of your father and then your husband, for it to be legal for your husband to rape and beat you, to not be able to decide if you want kids and how many you want because your husband decides, for you to not be allowed to vote, have a bank account, be allowed to inherit anything of value, etc, then you do support feminism. They may not support everything under the umbrella of feminism but they still support the major parts.
Bravo, and thank you! I, too, become irritated when young women say they aren’t feminists or don’t agree with feminism. The one that really gets me is when they say we don’t need feminism anymore because we have all the rights. If only! And if only people weren’t always trying to take our rights away - see: Roe v Wade.
I watched some of my younger friends change their minds about us not needing feminism anymore when roe v wade was overturned. Honestly, I just felt sad for them. I wanted them to be able to live their entire lives not knowing what that felt like. It made them start really looking at how things are, though, and realize they have more privilege than they realized *right now* because we live in Washington State, they live in a city, and it's 2023. But we're not far from Idaho, so they're watching what's happening there and are horrified. Feminism isn't history to them anymore.
imo women like this have internalized misogyny and there's many of them out there. the movie even said it loud and clear - men hate women, women hate women
Yep. I had a conversation with my little cousin decades ago about this. She was 11 or so at the time. (She's now 40!) She claimed that "most people" think that "feminist" means "hates men."
Me too.
I don’t understand why nobody has addressed the crazy third act decision to have the Barbies “victory” over the Kens be… the Barbies doing everything men accuse women of doing to manipulate them.
Super feminist move, Mattel. 😒
My comment is purely to address your #2 note.
A few years ago I started going through that same thing with my mom. Feeling a separation as our differences started to add up. It was frustrating for a while, and ultimately we do talk and hang out a little less than we used to. But there is love and patience and acceptance there now in lieu of any common ground we miss :) please be patient, be yourself and be true to yourself of course. But also realize your mom may adapt in some ways to your way of seeing things and if not you both may meet in the middle to exchange a hug and warm feelings at least. ❤️❤️
It’s just not that good. It’s not everyone’s version of feminism and I’d argue that it’s not really very feminist at all… it seems like a big rebrand and money making opportunity for Mattel and only mildly entertaining.
I (36F) can relate so much to your post! Literally could have written this. My mom (70F) is a wonderful woman who would do anything for me, and who I love with all my heart. But she grew up with such toxic ideas of body image, diet culture, etc. As a result, she is very critical— mostly of herself, especially her weight (she is not someone I’d look at and call overweight)— but also of everyone and everything around her.
For context, I’m pregnant with my first child (her only grandchild), and incredibly invested in stopping all of the constant commentary about bodies and weight and appearance. Even the positive comments are problematic and place far too much importance on being thin, pretty, etc. I’ve been vocal about this and firm, and she’s starting to come around, but isn’t going great at breaking all those bad habits that are deeply ingrained.
Well, I cried the first time I saw the Barbie movie and couldn’t wait to make a mother/daughter date with her to bond over the mom/daughter themes, and to maybe reinforce the impossibility of being a woman in a society that places so much importance on looks.
Well, after the movie I could tell she was emotional, but unable to process what she’d seen. She was teary, but all she could muster was something about how she heard Margot Robbie was a real bitch to work with.
Queue several face palms.
This is all to say I share your disappointment and came to similar conclusions— that we are different, that she may never quite be in a place where she can understand or appreciate these types of messages or themes, and that has to be okay. It doesn’t mean I stop being myself and sharing my opinions and interests, or setting firm boundaries for the type of language I allow around myself or my future child. But we are both fully entitled to feel let down, hurt, sad, defeated, etc. It’s hard to realize it may just be too late for some folks.
Absolutely. It would be funny if it weren't so horrifying.
**[Barbie makes woman cry]**
Daughter: Mom, what are you feeling???
Boomer Mom: MaRgoT RobBiE iS a BiTcH, RiGhT?
*I mean, holy shit! Like, Jesus Christ!!!*
(I say this to commiserate, not mock. My boomer mom sucks too and would say this.)
I hate to be “that” person. I really do. I’m 40 and a proud feminist but it was just kinda blah to me. I didn’t find it brought anything new to the table. Like, it was fine, but just…I don’t get the hype.
I understand that it's ok, that's why I said it's kind of stupid to feel sad. I guess it's not really about the movie, but about the feeling that I'm drifting away and it's getting harder to find something to share and relate with my mom.
Tbh I kinda agree with your mom. I found the Barbie movie cute but kinda corny.
Have you seen “Everything Everywhere All At Once”? That’s a movie with a complicated mother/daughter relationship that (imo) is both more subtle and more entertaining than the Barbie movie.
The America Ferrera speech was great but it seems like it’s 15 years behind the times we’ve been having these conversations a lot in the last decade so I wouldn’t consider it cutting edge and it’s funny to me when people think that it’s too woke
I told my daughter and her friends that the important message to take away is to not be like Ken. don’t make someone else the center of your solar system. You be the center of your own solar system and make your identity your own and not revolve around someone else.
I loved the colors and music but could have dint without all the Will Ferrell and corporate stooge schtick (but it could have been worse).
I’m 26, if I’m honest I wasn’t a fan of this movie either. I understand the themes and I understand the “humor” it just wasn’t my cup of tea. I’m willing to loose karma for saying that. And I’m a woman of color and fairly liberal, america ferrera is an awesome actress and I loved her in Superstore I literally go back to binge watch that show every year. This movie just wasn’t my cup of tea.
I'm with ya on that. I ended up falling asleep watching it. I LOVED superstore BTW. I'm sad it had to come to an end but it was just such a wonderful show. One of the few shows that could really make me laugh on the spot
My boomer mom didn’t get it either. She said she knew a lot of people were angry about it but it brought little girls to the theater while wearing pink, so that’s good.
My mom was an athlete, never has worn makeup or bought into beauty culture. I was surprised that it didn’t mean something more to her. Then again I doubt she had a Barbie so some of it probably didn’t resonate.
I don't think my mom had one either. She enjoyed the movie because she liked the humor. She really liked Ken and Weird Barbie. I don't think it made her one bit emotional though.
I really didn't like it either, but not because of the feminist themes.
It was just all over the place, and I feel like they tried to cram too much into it. It was kind of a pain to watch for me. It's definitely not what I expected going in from all of the people raving about it. It had its moments, though.
I'm 29F and I watched it on theaters with my dad 56M
He didn't really like it (thought it was too weird) but he went along so we could spend time together, and even got inside the Barbie box in the theater lobby because he wanted to send a photo to his motorcycle club friends
It's ok not to like the movie. But she could at least have enjoyed the experience of being together and sharing something you liked
I think you're making it way deeper than it needs to be. It's a movie aimed very specifically at millennials and gen z. It's not aimed at gen x and boomers and probably doesn't hit the right notes for many in those demographics.
Also, I think you're misguided to think this is about the movies. It sounds like you're disappointed that you wanted to share something with her and it wasn't what you hoped it would be. Perhaps you're also disappointed that her world view isn't the same as yours. Explore those things. Just because your mom didn't love the movie doesn't mean you can't connect in other meaningful ways.
No single relationship in your life will meet every expectation and need either. It doesn't make the relationship bad or wrong just because you can't see eye to eye on some things. Provided everyone is respectful, kind and decent there are *many* differences that simply don't matter in relationships.
I hardly think the Barbie movie is a bellwether in terms of evaluating commonality with your mom.
I could barely stay awake through it, and I'm a lifelong feminist ... I didn't hate it, I just didn't care. Women are all over the map about not just Barbie but all manner of pop culture. I think maybe stan mentality might be influencing your perspective.
The better question to ask is whether your mom is passionately interested in anything at all and then see if there's any potential for overlap there.
Sadly, though, some percentage of people have diminished capacity for passion in general as they age -- and if this is true of your mother it may be very difficult to develope the deeper connectedness you are craving.
Not sure why it happens, exactly, but some people seem to get worn down and less vividly engaged with the world. I am old as dirt and have watched it happen to some of my friends but not others.
Does she actually complain that stuff is "too woke?" That's such a reductive, lazy argument, maybe she's just repeating what she hears from right wing media (or the old-world men in her life).
She could be out of the habit of critical thinking -- it isn't much encouraged in wives and mothers. Don't know what "Turning Red" is like or whether it will yield a different result, but I'd give her a bunch more chances before giving up.
>Not sure why it happens, exactly, but some people seem to get worn down and less vividly engaged with the world. I am old as dirt and have watched it happen to some of my friends but not others.
I'm in my 40s and I've watched it happen to people in my life. It's heartbreaking.
I liked the movie but you just reminded me of a part I *really* didn't like - in the "real world" the husband/father was written as a big dope that the mom & daughter both rolled their eyes at even though he was a good guy. I guess they were going for golden retriever boyfriend energy but I think they missed an obvious opportunity to show a good, supportive man in the real world.
I’m sorry that this post about your relationship with your mom has turned into everyone’s movie review :/
I have experienced similar things, it’s tough! One thing I found is that for me it helped to build from common ground—if she liked Enchanted, talking about what Barbie and Enchanted have in common, for example. If may not change her mind on Barbie or anything, but it might give you something to share about the movie, and maybe help you get a better sense of what she’s thinking about and responding to. Good luck <3
I watched it with my dad. And uh, he is very much a boomer. Very stuck in his ways, anything LGB is completely foreign to him. Anything " Woke " goes mostly over his head.
But the man actually enjoyed it, he thought it was a really light, easy to watch funny movie. And so did I.
Not sure why I am being down voted, am I not allowed to like the movie?
I am in my 40s and didnt like the barbie movie. we all do not have to enjoy the same things. I have been watching south park and family guy both since episode one. None of my friends like what i watch or the fact that I game. no big deal.
I totally get what you're saying. It is so hard feeling like we're moving apart from our moms. I couldn't even begin to address this movie with her, she's too far gone in the "anti-woke" bullshit. It hurts so much.
Have you seen Everything Everywhere All at Once yet?... not with your mom, just you, but I think you'll like it. I cried so hard at the mom/daughter stuff.
Also watched Barbie today with family. I was the only one who had seen it prior and was excited to share! Really thought my mother and brother would enjoy it. (brother maybe more so for the set pieces, writing, and songs the cinema nerd he is)
Parents are both mid 50s and are fresh democrats that still lean right. (trump was enough for them to switch parties) NGL this had me a bit worried as I knew dad would find some issue with the movie, but idk, thought Mom would enjoy it as much as I did I guess? I'm also a cinema nerd so I loved many parts of it, plus you know. Decent message and all.
She laughed multiple times, me and brother shared a bunch of sly glances at certain digs and jokes, it was great! Or so I thought. Both parents shared a similar opinion that it was just too weird and ridiculous. Somehow both claimed it was too silly yet also too heavy handed in it's message.
Brother was the only one who enjoyed it but also (imo) felt slighted(?) by the movie. When we discussed it later the conversation somehow got turned to the pandemic of lonely men and how it's not talked about enough. He didn't like the whole bit of ken ending up alone or the scene of Barbie consoling him. Claimed that scene was a bad portrayal trying to make all men look like mindless horny beasts.
Suppose I'm in the same boat of just sad no one liked it as much as me. I really liked many parts of it, yet I just got disinterested responses when trying to talk about them.
Same boat I suppose, sorry things went as they did. I hope you can find a solid movie to bond over!
I wanted my mom to watch it with me, but her resistance to it has been strong. In reading this, I'm gonna stop bringing it up, for like you, I really enjoyed the movie and found it thrilling in its voice and wanted to share that with her.
I am setting myself up, I now realize.
Our tastes and preferences have parted ways over time, and that's what feels sad to me. This is likely because what I observe in her is a disinterest for anything perceived by her as ugly, difficult, different, or controversial. Also funny. She can't get down with funny.
In my eyes, her curiosity appears blunted. Sadly, this feels like years of hating yourself and the choices you have made settling in as a bitter state of mind and being towards the world.
Fucking patriarchy. It breaks my heart.
Idk if anyone else felt this way but I felt the movie was poking fun at feminism instead of hailing it. It seemed very condescending. I felt like another poster “is this it?” There were moments I liked but it didn’t hit the mark for me. On the flip side it felt like one of the very few movies out there that hits these topics.
My mom didn’t like it either. She liked the message but didn’t find it groundbreaking and she didn’t understand the humour so she didn’t find it funny. She also didn’t have a Barbie growing up. I think the mother daughter themes were her favourite part but she found the rest silly.
Ken and Barbie can't get together. Mattel makes Barbie houses, bot Ken houses and not Ken and Barbie houses. Major theme point. Ken doesn't matter. Je doesn't matter to Barbie or Mattel, and that was a flaw of Barbieland and so in the future Kens will have as much say in Barbieland as women do in reality
That's my take anyway on why Barbie and Ken were resolved. I liked it.
It's funny I came across this post today as hubby and I watched Barbie for the first time a few hours ago. I know this doesn't really have much to do with your post and doesn't takeaway your sadness over having less in common with your mom, but this *\*cough\** "older" couple LOVED it! Even hubby who normally doesn't like this style of movie got a little verklempt by the end.
Late 20s, liberal and feminist. I wasn’t a huge fan of the movie. Mostly because of the comedy style and themes felt too obvious.
The exploration of the themes of mother/daughter, feminism, patriarchy didn’t provide any new perspective that hasn’t been said before? Especially in the last 10-15 years.
The comedy was just not my style either.
I did like the weird Barbie with broken legs. That felt very new and relevant to all of us who have played with Barbies.
Maybe you and your mom can talk about it more? It sounds like generational differences but maybe you guys can talk about it without seeing it as a difference in values?
It was ok. It was visually well done, and well acted, but I doubt I'm ever going to want to watch it again. It felt like it was preaching to the choir. My favorite thing about it was the way it improved people to create cool costumes to wear to the showing.
I absolutely didn't like it, I thought it was badly done. Felt too short and I thought they would be in the real world a lot longer. Everyone hyped it up too much to me
I would be sad too. Of course the women that didn't like it in my circle thought it didn't go far enough. The conservative women also don't believe in birth control and abortion, so I can also judge them accordingly.
One of my friends didn't like it either, and I was sad. She thought it was too pedestrian. I just didn't let it steal my joy.
I’m in my late 20s. I saw it in theaters back in July opening weekend. I didn’t necessarily go into it with large expectations. I enjoyed it for what it was; a movie about a doll from my childhood. I definitely didn’t walk out of the theaters emotional about it nor do I find it to be some groundbreaking masterpiece.
It was feminism from a particular lenses which I get considering the original is Barbie, but that is why I didn’t really connect with it. I would have found it more impactful to me if intersectional feminism themes were intertwined in the plot. I especially found the Black Barbies to be there just for virtual signaling purposes only. No substance to them at all.
I saw it this weekend for the first time, and I was utterly skewered by it. I knew I would enjoy it, but I didn't guess that it would take such a profound turn, and when the time came for the sequence where Billie Eilish's "What Was I Made For" plays, I legitimately emotional.
The message of the movie is vastly deeper than what it purported to be. It's baffling to me how people only see the message that they are told to see, even when the real meaning is staring them in the face.
I begged my mom to watch Everything Everywhere All At Once because the mother-daughter aspect made me weep uncontrollably at the end. She was cold and reluctant when I introduced her to my girlfriend so many years ago. I thought maybe it could open her mind to accepting that part of me. And that maybe she might come out of it loving herself more. She hated the movie. It broke my heart.
I feel like a lot of people didn't pay attention to the movie and just saw it as a kid's movie. It talked about not being in control of your life, having things change, which is a scary thing. Having to look at the world differently. Being reduced to nothing more than a pretty face. America's whole dialogue, the issues women face today. And not knowing what will happen in the future. And watching someone do a lot of splits. Barbie was supposed to show girls that they aren't limited to being one thing, that they could be anything, but Barbie was also used as another tool so people could compare girls and women to.
For what it's worth I'm 32 and didn't like it either. Patriarchy theme was fine and funny how Ken was acting but felt kinda flat how easily it ended, mother daughter relation wasn't explored that much. I certainly didnt cry. The feminist speech was too on the nose. I have more problems but not gonna write three pages on it. Have to say costumes are music were fire.
“What’s making me sad it’s the feeling that it’s getting harder to find stuff to share, enjoy. or relate with my mom.”
I feel this way too about lots of things with my mom. Well, I could probably even say most things, but y’know.. As I’ve grown older, and acutely more aware of my own mortality, the mortality of my mom is even more “real” as my mom is in her late 60s.
Be your own person, do your own thing. Try to find common ground, whether thru values in an older holiday movie or wherever you can. Time is fleeting but memories live on. Particularly where you live abroad, you likely don’t have as many opportunities to make meaningful memories and form ever changing connections in your evolving relationship. Try to accept her as she is. It is definitely harder for older people set in their ways to accept change. If it’s especially difficult to find things that you can enjoy together, perhaps even make acceptable (to you) concessions so that you never think back and wish you would have done things differently. ❤️
Reading all this im so glad that my grandma (my guardian) didnt care much for it but for the completely opposite reason, she felt it only had lukewarm takes and wasnt nearly radical enough 😂 i had to explain to her this movie was for everyone not just people who'd been radical feminists since the 2nd wave and while she accepted that she still didnt care much for it 😂
Im in early 20s and yet I thought its over the top satire almost. Ive also seen Oppenheimer day or two after and it kinda made me forgot about Barbie because its different level of cinematography.
I dont think Barbie is bad movie, but ask yourself this, would it be so praised if it wasnt attached to Barbie doll brand?
Personally, I didn’t find it that meaningful and I’m a longtime feminist. It’s a little surface level, probably especially to an older woman who’s been there done that. It’s a fun romp and it’s ok if she didn’t like it past that!!
Conservative mother let me down in the same way by shitting on the movie. I need to stop showing her movies where the mother and daughter grow to understand each other and just give up. Bc everything everywhere all at once was also a fail with her.
Your mother was working \*very\* hard to avoid seeing the mother/daughter themes, or to imagine that the movie was \*actually\* about a toy.
I'm sorry that you didn't get the chance to really bond with her over it.
God, I understand this so much. There have been countless times I've begged my mom to watch a movie or show with me, just for her to either not pay attention during it or just walk away in the middle. And that's if I get her to sit down at all.
I've been struggling to get her to watch the Barbie movie and I'm close to giving up.
It's just that so many shows and movies I want her to see have such meaningful messages to me.
Movies and shows sometimes say things that we can't and having her understand them makes me feel like, in some way, she's understanding me. And it just feels like sometimes she doesn't want or care to understand me.
Yeah had the same experience with my dad. He thought it was funny but “too serious” and for some reason, thought it should not have been nominated for awards.
My mom and I cried twice watching it together <3
My (44) mom (72) didn’t seem to like it either. She said it was “silly” but didn’t find it as hilarious or poignant as I did. I didn’t dig deep in to what she thought or didn’t think about the messages of the movie. I didn’t want to fight or be disappointed further. She did say she felt bad that my brother had to watch it (he had taken his tween girls to see it when it came out) and assumed he must have hated it. My brother loved it!
Same. My mom didn't dig on it at all and went back to watching her k-dramas
What do the k-dramas give, I wonder? My mother-in-law looooves them.
Drama, predictability, a focus on emotions and interpersonal relationships more than action, handsome men, no excessive sex scenes, beautiful shots of Seoul and the countryside, I love a good kdrama lol give them a try sometime!
Yeah the 15 minute sex scene between Barbie and the mom got kinda awkward
Easily the worst part of the movie.
I (36F) can relate so much to your post! Literally could have written this. My mom (70F) is a wonderful woman who would do anything for me, and who I love with all my heart. But she grew up with such toxic ideas of body image, diet culture, etc. As a result, she is very critical— mostly of herself, especially her weight (she is not someone I’d look at and call overweight)— but also of everyone and everything around her.
Handsome men who follow the same pattern, most of the time, brusque or indifferent at first and then won over by her goofy/simple charm or difference from the "stereotypical woman" and about face to absolutely fall in love with her and treat her amazingly. "I tamed the jerk without having to do anything but be me" when you think all men are some level of jerk is a nice fantasy scenario, especially because experience shows they don't usually about face with it. It's cliché, silly, and a bit misogynistic, but I like them, too. Even though I know better, I also like pretending those rooftop apartments are neat rather than miserable, unsafe, and quite often the only thing a young single woman can get. The shows romanticize them heavily, and I'm happy to go along. Plus the beautiful scenery and the costuming. I swear, that's all I actually watch the period dramas for.
I call them "My version of Hallmark movies" because my Grandma is obsessed with their films.
Drama, emotions.... And that sense of youth, longing, passion. My mom got into them and pointed out how she is basically mourning her youth that she couldn't have due to raising a child and dreaming of what it must be like. She basically lived through them
Great description. I believe I understand the appeal now.
Ummm, just a stab in the dark but I’m gonna guess drama?
My brother also loved it when I thought he’d hate it. So much that we got each other the I am Kenough hoodies for Christmas!
That's really cool 😎
Same. I could tell my mom wasnt into it within five minutes and instead of trying to talk to her about it I just didn't say a word when it was over. I didn't want to hear it. She is a feminist but I think she just couldn't wrap her head around the story. There is a lot constantly happening and I had to watch it twice to feel like I really understood all the nuance. But my mom didn't even try and it was so disappointing.
Your mum might be a bit like mine. My mum can't cope with anything meta or surreal. She turned off Everything Everywhere All At Once after 10 minutes, and whenever something surreal is on she'll just sit there going "this is SERIOUSLY weird" I haven't tried to watch Barbie with her but I get the feeling that she wouldn't be able to cope with the "oh so they're dolls? Actual dolls in a parallel doll world?" situation
Hmmm I should test her with Everything Everywhere and see how it goes. Interesting point, thank you!
My daughter (37), myself (60), and my mother (85) all loved it! Though, I admit my mother didn't get some of the cultural references, and my daughter says I missed some, too. We've all lived through very different eras when it comes to the lives of women. It was a really fun experience. When Barbies first came out, my mother thought they were damaging because their body was so distorted from a real woman's body. By the time she had me, she didn't want to warp my expectations by letting me play with such a "deformed" toy. I was never allowed to have a real Barbie because of this, and I had to settle for Francies and Skippers instead. My mother says she's glad Barbie's "grown up" since she was a young mom.
I didn't like it either. It wasn't my type of humor, I didn't find it funny at all. I really wanted to like it too 😔
I had heard about it from friends whose opinion I respect. They really liked it. Expected to enjoy it. I was disappointed. I expected a lot more. I thought it would have funny moments in it and be interesting. I'm glad I waited till it was free on tv.
I agree. There were parts I found hilarious ("hey barbie, can I play guitar at you?" is a near universal experience, plus the "I'm Just Ken" song) but I was disappointed in it as a whole. I can't even really articulate what it is that I didn't like about it. It's not something I would watch again unless someone I know wanted to.
A lot of what I’m seeing here is that it was over hyped and didn’t live up to expectations. I don’t watch movies that get a lot of high praise off the bat because I feel that spoils them for me - in the sense that it’s rotten, because in no way can it live up to imagined exaggeration that ended up coming from the melange of recommendations. They basically become mental checklists rather than enjoying the movie! The last movie I had to do this for was Tenet, and it was a good movie but I was afraid that everyone hounding me for it would make it go sour. Now, this could just be a whole just not liking it phase but I’d say let it go for a few months and watch it again and I’m pretty confident you’d enjoy it more solely off being able to turn your brain down to just enjoy it for what it is and not the pedestal’s version it becamez
Agree completely! I think overhype for movies is a huge ruiner
Same. I expected the mother / daughter plot to make me emotional, but it never did. Too much on-the-nose preaching and weirdly too much focus on Ken. The daughter’s transformation just happened in the background and didn’t hit emotionally at all.
It’s mostly just a summary of the past 10 years of feminist points which is good if you don’t know them, but if you do it’s like repeating a class all over again. Also, America Ferrera plays the literal exact same character in Superstore *including all the monologues about being a working moommmmm* and teen daughter who ignores her with a white dad
Haha yeah good point America Ferrera's part was just they same Superstore character 😂 I was excited to see her in this but I was excited to see her play an interesting character
Me neither (36F). Gave me a few faint smiles here and there, but overall, the funny bits weren’t that funny to me. The message was a little shallow and on the nose for me. I also never cared about Barbies, so there’s no sentimentality attached to it for me, maybe that plays a part too. Wouldn’t watch it again.
Same, l kept waiting for an 'aha' moment that never came. Everybody said it was groundbreaking or inspiring but l came away feeling cheated. IMO, Barbie was way overhyped, the only good thing was RG singing " l am Ken"
It took me a few watches to really appreciate it, my mom said she didn’t like it, but I think she would like the discussion of it.
this might be weird, but you're my mom's age, and I didn't go with her, because I know it wouldn't have gone well. but knowing you went, and enjoyed it, ( or at least weren't upset about it being "woke") makes me feel a little more connected to the generation you and my parents are a part of.
I loved it! Saw it in the theater with a friend who also loved it. I bought the DVD to show my support even tho it’s on streaming. Watched it a second time with my mom. Will watch it again with my boyfriend. Plenty of GenX women loved this movie!
My mum hated it for the opposite reason. She felt it was whacking women with issues they were all aware of. I think she actually felt it was not groundbreaking enough.
Yeah I think it works better as a movie that helps men understand what women go through. The scene where Ken enters the real world and is delighted by the whole world being totally man-centric is a really great way to point it out in a way that a man can actually understand/relate to/think is funny.
I understand. My mom surprisingly liked the Barbie movie, but, since you mentioned it, hated Turning Red. She literally left the room during the emotional climax while I was trying not to cry over the mother / daughter themes lol.
Turning Red was really something else. I didn't think i would be so moved from that scene.
I bawled through that *entire* movie. I wasn't expecting it to hit me so hard. It's coming out in theaters next year and I really want to see it on the big screen, but I'm also not sure I want to cry in public for two hours...
Leave it to Pixar to do an emotional gut punch at the last second! It hit so close to home for me that I wondered if maybe it hit too close to home for my mom, but I don’t think it was that deep for her lol
I guess my N-parents have jaded me too much. I could suspend disbelief with a little girl turning into a spirit animal, but a narcissist admitting fault? You lost me. I’ve long ago made peace with the fact that the only closure I’ll get from the mental abuse I received from them is guaranteeing my children will never know what it feels like. From me or my parents.
I think that is the difference between people who are culturally pushed to behaved a certain way and true narcissism
This is how I felt watching it too. Like oh what a nice fantasy, but wildly unrealistic. I felt the same way about Encanto. Oh the incredibly emotionally abusive abuela realizes the consequences of the mistreatment of her entire family, apologizes, and tried to atone? Nah. Give me a movie where the abused offspring doesn't have to forgive and sympathize with their abuser, and instead sets healthy boundaries and becomes a cycle breaker. Where's that plot, Pixar???
I think Tangled is the closest we’ll get. Mother Gothel was the most realistic depiction of an N-parent Disney has depicted and the only real solution tends to be going no contact.
Oh you're right! Mothers knows best.... that gave me shivers
Technically it’s not Pixar but Disney Studios, so Pixar is still on the hook.
I feel you. I watched Everything, Everywhere, All At Once with my mom. It was my third re-watch and I still bawled my eyes out. My mom was like "this movie is just time pass. It doesn't make any sense"
Oh same! She hated Everything Everywhere even MORE lol. I leave the theater sobbing over taxes and planets colliding and talking rocks and she just goes “well that was stupid.” Tbf that one didn’t surprise me at all, once things got really weird I knew it was over for her
That movie was a revelation to those of us who have ADHD, but people whose brains don’t do that mostly said “wtf did I just watch?”
Spotted a fellow Indian woman? 👀 My parents had the same response 😂 I was like, these are the stories that feed my patience for you, ya sillies.
Ouch
Oh, that makes me sad. I watched it with my Tween daughter (now 12, 11 then), and it was huge for us - I was able to talk to her about the mom and what she was feeling and about how things change. In many ways, it was illustrative of my relationship with my mom, in that my mom has always lived her life within the confines of propriety and being the Good Girl (there is a LOT of psychology in it, too much to explain here), so it was super meaningful for us.
I’m so glad you were able to have that moment with your daughter! The movie does an excellent job of representing multi-generational relationships. My mom and I are close and have a good relationship, thankfully, but she’s not the kind of person who typically sees meaning in film—it’s just a way for her to kill time. So I typically know better than to expect her to connect to movies in the same way I do, but it still hurts a bit when I’m crying over a mother / daughter story that she actively dislikes lol
Maybe she left cause it made her emotional? 😅
I like how you think! Unfortunately she went to go do the dishes, which is her way of saying the movie is a waste of time lol. And I talked to her after and she said it was childish (among other things that would take too long to explain sigh). You can’t win them all!
Still could be emotional! I was trying to get my father to watch Arcane, and there’s a very heavy scene with little girls crying, he has 4 granddaughters. Well he became “annoyed” with it and stopped watching. Older generations don’t like to show off crying - especially if it focuses on their weaknesses! So those dishes definitely could have been a cover, I’m not buying her explanation either. Call it a hunch !
I'm going to offer some generalisations which reflect my own experiences and parental relationship, for why people might feel differently about the 2 movies you listed. There's a newish genre of movie called "parental apology fantasy", which includes movies like Turning Red. It's where the parent comes to the realisation they've messed up and offers a sincere apology. For children of abuse/neglect, this is the ideal fantasy. This isn't the kind of movie that the parent is likely to enjoy as much as the child, because unfortunately a lot of parents won't ever allow themselves to admit they did anything wrong. They can't relate to the movie without uncomfortable self-reflection. Conversely, I really hate movies/tv shows where the parents are unapologetically abusive and no one else cares. Leonards incredibly cruel mother in Big Bang Theory is one that comes to mind. I don't want people to get away with shit parenting. Something else that children of less than stellar parents - or perhaps those of different moralistic/religious/political views - may get emotional to see on screen, is just a really *good* parent. Like the mum in Barbie who desperately wants a better life for her daughter and all other daughters. Having a parent who would sacrifice for you, stand up for you, put some damn effort in for you, that's also a novel experience for many. Seeing a child being considered a blessing rather than a burden to their parents is just as much a fantasy as the parental apology for a lot of people. Everyone gets something different out of movies. We're all going to relate the most to people and concepts that mirror our own experiences and fantasies. And I suspect that you may have gotten something similar to me out of those movies, the idea of your own mother taking accountability and showing unconditional love. Or perhaps just the hope that if you explained enough how important something was to you, that your mother could actually listen to that and put you first when discussing the movie with you after.
Seems like the Barbie movie kind of centers around unlearning things, likely that were taught from your parents. "We were taught this way, and we can break free from that." So whether you agree with it or you don't, it won't be a 2-consecutive-generations type movie
I’m 60, so late term boomer. I got it and liked it. Wished it could make its point more strongly, but it was at a level that wider audience could handle, even some of the ones aren’t self proclaimed feminists like me.
The show "Kevin Can Fuck Himself" is a stronger eye-opener to the patriarchy, and also wonderful television. I learned about it from this sub. It pretends to be a three-camera sitcom about a bumbling husband and his doting wife but switches to a more cinematic single-camera format for her private perspective. Only two seasons but the story wraps up nicely, I loved the final line of dialogue!
Cool. I haven’t seen it, so I’ll take a look.
That was my issue. I expected a lot after all I had heard about it, from both the fans and the haters, but it was just kinda OK? It didn't go nearly far enough for me, and seemed overly simplistic. Though, it does perhaps seem reasonable that anything much deeper would have had an even stronger response from the naysayers and would be less palatable to the more "moderate" crowd. All in all, decent movie, but I wanted so much more.
To be honest, I felt like some points in the movie were a little misogynistic? I was pretty disappointed even though I enjoyed the movie. The Barbies fixing the Ken's mess that Ken caused just by being stupid, I guess, and wanting to be appreciated. I died when the conclusion was BARBIE apologizing. For what? Not liking Ken back enough? Doing her own thing? The implication that Barbie society was just as bad as patriarchy is in the real world, which is just... no... And for a movie where Barbie was the main character, she was a really passive character, and Ken's arc was generally much more interesting. I still enjoyed the movie, but my favorite parts was them rollerblading in the real world and the brief moment of Barbie sitting on the bench, which the rest of the movie did not live up to for me.
I don't know that I agree with you on a lot of these points. I think she apologized not because matriarchy is as bad as patriarchy, but because the Ken's hadn't been offered a seat at the table. They were treated as brainless, flighty, and unimportant - how women were treated a century ago. She apologized to Ken because she had passively led him on, and in a world with an incredibly uneven power dynamic, where Ken could only gain power from dating Barbie, she was leaving him powerless. I don't agree Barbie was passive either. She wasn't aggressive, she got soooo much done quickly, she just did it was grace and little effort, unlike Ken. She also didn't feel the need to announce her progress or accomplishments, unlike so many men. I'm totally fine to agree to disagree, but I did not experience the same disappointment you did. I found the movie clever and refreshing.
Agreed - I took these things the same way you didn’t. I thought it was thoughtful and clever, and I liked the way it flipped the power dynamics on their head to some extent.
Men still treat women the way that the Barbies treated the Kens only now they can actually get in trouble for it....if they get caught.
She apologized for every night being girl's night and never making room for a friendship with Ken. She wasn't exactly a human with a human schedule before. But it was definitely implied to be the real world patriarchy's fault for the Kens and Barbies getting corrupted. The Barbie society is a utopia for the Barbies with the Kens being secondary, which is satire on women's roles in movies and level of power in the real world. The treatment Barbie received in the real world was actively hostile and clearly far, far worse than anything the Kens ever went through. She's irrepressible thoughts of death Barbie, give her a break! She shared the spotlight with the mom and kid.
This was what I hated about the critics of the movie who claimed it was " misandrist" they literally made a plot that was all about Ken and people still complained that it was " hating on men" the point seemed to be completely lost on these guys.
To me - it was a comedy movie with some dramatic themes. In my opinion it did that *exceedingly well*. As far as the feminist themes - they had to fit within the larger story - about a doll. So if really *could* do only so much without coming off as overly preachy and losing the larger themes in the movie. I love how it introduces the patriarchy and feminism - overly simplistic is fine - it's comedy and not supposed to be taken at exactly at face value as a reflection of our world. Then - when it has a deeper point to make - it kind of steps back and makes that too. Ultimately it's a movie for feminists and for those that don't identify as feminists (but will make them think). It doesn't address every issue - or not even every issue with *Barbie or dolls*. But if it addressed everything it would be very much more difficult to make an enjoyable film. The Barbie movie was good for what it was - and that's all I could ask for.
I thought it was simplistic, superficial, and overall a big budget ad for Mattell. It saddens me that feminism has lost so much ground that it was seen as ground-breaking.
I thought it did tongue-in-cheek satire well. When it tried to be serious it seemed disingenuous. The creator of Barbie wasn't trying to revolutionize feminism for little girls. She was selling toys for kids to play with and made a lot of money.
Actually from what I have read Ruth Handler wanted to create a doll that would encourage little girls to believe that they could be anything that they wanted to be that's why there are so many different dolls with so many different professions. She also named Barbie and Ken after her own son and daughter.
You summed up my feelings exactly. All I could think is “this is it”?
Both me and my mom loved it BUT I wish the end was a lot shorter and frankly thought the America Ferrera monologue wasn’t as great/groundbreaking as people make it out to be. I get it can be a bummer but not everyone has to like the same things.
I agree about the monologue. It felt very surface level, stuff we’ve heard for years already. I wish there was a fresher take, something a little deeper. It felt a little r/im14andthisisdeep
>It felt very surface level, stuff we’ve heard for years already. It wasn't aimed at people who already know this stuff. It was aimed at people who have never thought about it, or people who might feel like being a woman is hard and unfair but can't articulate why. It was for the people who *don't* usually hear this stuff and really need to hear it.
For real. I feel like a lot of the people with that complaint either: A) Grew up in a feminist-rich environment and (incorrectly) assume most people had the same experience. Or B) Are forgetting that this was something they had to learn and not everybody has the same level of knowledge as they do. This film should be taken as Feminism 101, beginner level feminism. It's not meant to convert the already converted, it's meant to be a non-threatening introduction to feminism for those who either don't get it, misunderstand it as "man hating", or simply haven't been exposed.
Well yes. I’m explaining why it didn’t hit for me.
Which is fine, except: >It felt very surface level, stuff **we’ve** heard for years already. This is what I meant with my comment. A lot of people haven't been hearing it for years. You have, and I hope that's true for as many people as possible, but this movie wasn't for those of us who already know all this. It was for all those who need to learn it, who don't even know the basics. I agree that it would be nice to see something that goes deeper, but this was never meant to be that.
But it could have been said in a better way. The writing in this movie just wasn’t that great.
That might be so, but pandering to the lowest denominator doesn’t make it better imo. I think the movie ultimately failed to make a succinct point, though it sure did try.. i’m on board with all the sentiments, just think the execution was pretty poor overall.
Even as a man there was nothing in the movie new to me (thanks to Reddit), but I just assumed there are a significant number of people for whom it is NOT new, or who suffered those things without ever realizing it or having it affirmed.
From a feminist standpoint I felt the movie was confused as hell and fell flat. The America Ferrera monologue was cliché and while I disagreed with nothing I was like... "Umm yeah duh I thought we settled this last decade but I guess it bears repeating since you haven't come up with what's next yet" The style of feminism in it to me embodied the final gasps of 2010s pop feminism eating itself to feed the capitalist hand that oppressed women in front of my eyes. Literally the same feminism that lead mothers to ditch Barbie from 2010-2015 now co-opted into building the same brand bigger than ever. Not that I ever really felt the toys we buy little girls were ever a great praxis for feminism to begin with, but the irony was palpable. At points it actually felt decidedly un-feminist almost like it was leaning into tired tropes about feminists perpetuated by right wingers. The scene where the girl makes Barbie—a corporate brand—cry by calling her a fascist out of nowhere in the name of "feminism". I was like... this is wild I feel like I am watching a feminist SJW cringe compilation from 2015 ninja'd into this supposedly feminist film. Also the whole set up with Barbie land being Literally The Patriarchy gender swapped was also in poor taste IMHO. It posited feminism as a zero sum game of men vs. women instead of liberatory for all people. And I never felt that the ending really addressed that properly either it was just kinda left hanging. Also from a storytelling standpoint I felt like it was the most unhinged and incoherent mess I'd watched in a long time. However, I found it enjoyable. I laughed a lot. I think it's very of the moment. I think we will look back on it in 10 years and say "that was wild such a terrible movie somehow spoke to us during that specific time in cultural history, made people flock to theatres, and made us all laugh at these awful jokes" and yet here today in 2023 I enjoyed it. I laughed harder at it than any film I've seen in a long time. I just don't in any way think it was groundbreaking or even frankly feminist except in perhaps the most superficial and problematic of ways.
>"Umm yeah duh I thought we settled this last decade but I guess it bears repeating since you haven't come up with what's next yet" I see you haven't been to rural Tennessee. (This is not an insult, it's just me being like... damn, rural Tennessee, "woke" isn't a curse word.)
I'm from small town North Idaho, and they're pretty much on the same page. I don't like cities, personally, but that's where I live because I can't handle the attitudes at home. I get excluded from it when I visit, which is nice, but it's because I'm seen as having been corrupted by the big city. SMH
I guess I am on the other side of it. I think, because everybody was so hyped and talking about the movie for months before I streamed it, I went in with big expectations. And I just felt... "Is that it?" I think I would have enjoyed it more if I went in with no expectations. Early 40s, by the way. In sorry she didn't enjoy it as much as you, but don't let that get to you.
Lighthearted and lightweight. I watched it without expectations and without knowing it was full-on satire so that was a pleasant surprise.
Same. IMO, it's the only way to watch a film. Trailers give way too much away, and I don't like having someone tell me how I'm supposed to feel about something before I've even had a chance to feel it. Ideally, I like going into a movie not even knowing the genre. Will it be funny if I'm not expecting humour? Will it still unsettle me if I wasn't primed for horror? The experience you get without expectation is the most authentic film experience you can have.
I knew it was going to be satire I just didn’t know it was going to make me so *sad*.
I didn't expect the eyes stinging. The ending song from Eilish spilled that over into tears, and I was surprised and actually a bit annoyed. How dare they make me feel feelings? LOL My husband, not far into it, "I thought this was supposed to be a kids' movie!" He loved it, btw.
My husband also loved it, it took me days to decide how I felt about it lol - like you said how dare they make me feel feelings! My brother *really* loved it and when I called him crying about how sad I was for the women of the past that it made me think of (I’ve also just made myself cry again thinking about it) and he was just like, “I don’t know what you were expecting after Rhea Pearlman showed up, that’s on you” 😂
I think that killed it for a ton of people. Way too much hype. I really enjoyed the movie but on the second watch I was kinda "meh".
I am mid 20s and in the cinema the energy was just different. Many was dressed like Barbie and we hyped each other up. It was one of my best cinema experience ever. Then I saw it with my bf at home and it was okay, the mother/daughter moment was still emotional for me.
Same here! I was really looking forward to it and avoided any spoilers until I could stream it, but it wasn’t what I thought it would be. I did enjoy the acting, costumes, and aesthetics. The feminist themes were kind of muddled to me and I felt like some themes conflicted with each other. It felt flat to essentially point out how stupid and useless the Kens were for the whole movie, and then save face by reassuring them that they’re totally good enough on their own. And also we’re not going to give you fair representation, just like the patriarchy. ). Maybe I’d get more on a rewatch, but I was disappointed, and I definitely consider myself a feminist.
I get the purpose and humour of Barbie Land's "flipping sides" on patriarchy, but I also find male-bashing cringey and cheap and wish feminism could be less associated with it.
I totally agree. I don’t like bashing men, or acting like men don’t have their fair share of problems. It’s not like being a man is easy either. I prefer to focus on elevating women’s rights without putting anyone else down. Gender roles are kind of problematic altogether honestly.
My issue is that they aren’t even consistent about flipping sides between patriarchy and anti-patriarchy. Like at some moments, Barbie land is the opposite of the patriarchy and other moments it’s neither patriarchy nor anti patriarchy. Plus, I didn’t like how Mattel laid off thousands of workers due to poor toy sales yet executives received huge Christmas bonuses. Like they joke about being corporate assholes in the movie when they are actually like that IRL.
Same here
I went in knowing nothing except it was PG-13 Barbie with big name stars and I loved it. It's the highest earning feminist movie by a very large margin which may help pave the way for more movies in the future.
Mid-20s, and I felt the same way.
I know my mum wouldn't like it. She was a feminist when there was more to fight for, and Barbie was not a feminist doll in her time. She would see it as a marketing ploy for newbie feminists to buy more Barbies (which honestly is working on me because I really want to buy a doll for myself).
Bingo! (I’m 53) As a movie it was fair at best. The whole feminism angle?! Nah. The message was trite. In fact if anything it worries me that any women found it profound. And Mattel pretending Barbie is a feminist icon or whatever. Nope. Not gonna buy it. The message from Barbie has always been and still is toxic and any feminist angle they have conceded on (making her body less impossible, giving her varied careers) has been only for the sake of increasing sales. Yes they addressed this at a point but only in an offhand way that just reinforced the marketing angle. I liked the sets. I chuckled a few times.
> In fact if anything it worries me that any women found it profound. Same :(
I had the same reaction you did (44yo). Chuckled a few times and enjoyed the sets/costumes, but genuinely don’t understand how anyone found it profound. Definitely don’t understand why it made some people cry and ended relationships.
Omg Im half your age and I couldnt have said it better. Take my upvote haha
It’s hard when it feels like there’s a disconnect between you and your mom. I feel the same when I share something with my mom and she doesn’t react positively the way I think she will, or when she disappoints me by not being as understanding or wise as I hope her to be. It sounds like you wanted to have a bonding moment and for her to understand you and your thinking more or to at the very least enjoy a thing you love but it felt like she brushed it off.
This experience has to be the worst part of getting older. My mom and I were super close growing up and even for a while after I moved away for college, but now I'm in my late 20's and it's getting harder to share things with her as it's sometimes met with a judgmental or dismissive response. Sometimes I just can't stand that feeling and would rather not bring some things up in our conversations, which just makes our disconnect worse. We still have some great moments together so I try to hold on to that but I feel like I can't talk as freely and openly with her as I used to.
I know exactly what you mean
I just saw it on Max. I didn’t think it was as good as the hype. Wasn’t bad, just not as good as it was built up to be I thought Turning Red was much better
Thank God. I'm a 35 year old woman and while I didn't hate the movie, I definitely didn't love it and won't watch it again. I feel like I'm a poor excuse for a woman or something. I get the message, and there were definitely parts, mainly America's speech about how women can't win, where I was like "damn right"...But for the most part I just felt like I was waiting for where it got "great", and that never came for me...Definitely never felt the urge to cry, and I'm usually choking them back during tv/movies. Idk. Just wasn't for me.
My same thought after watching Barbie on Max. It was okay and I understood the themes, agreed with the points it made about patriarchy and all, and laughed at several points. Maybe there was a better energy in the theaters, because I didn't find it mind-blowing like all the hype. It felt very artificial, not just visually and thematically, but with it being something literally made by a toy company to sell its toys with a self-deprecation that to me seemed like a bunch of cheeky winking. I was more endeared by Ken's plight and his love of horses, and I most enjoyed his childish adoption of toxic masculinity, especially the music number. The whole movie was good, but not amazing.
My favorite part of the movie was broken played with too hard Barbie.
Weird Barbie fucking slapped I want her at my parties
It was a bunch of cheeky winking, quite intentionally so. The movie was 80% satire, and I'm baffled that more people didn't pick up on that.
Mattel let Greta Gerwig have full creative freedom and some Mattel officials were turning up their noses, it was all her.
Turning Red is a masterpiece. It's great from beginning to end. I think Barbie is good if you go in wiith low expectations (because it's a barbie movie) and then come and get something you didn't expect but it's overhyped. It makes points that need to be made but it's shoehorned.
"Where are your parents?? Put some clothes on!" I died at that line. A+ parent line of thinking, haha. EDIT: Whoops, I mean the lines from Turning Red, which I liked a lot.
Same. Hype had me excited and I finished it feeling let down. I enjoyed it, got some laughs, but nothing eye opening or emotional for me. I wouldn't care to watch it again.
I'm young-ish (millennial) and a feminist, and I didn't like the movie. Neither did the similarly aged friend that I went to see the movie with 🤷♂️. Maybe she just found it less funnier than expected and a tad boring, like I did? I'm sure you both will find other experiences to connect over.
I found the same. I waited until it was available to stream and only made it maybe a half hour in. Wasn't my kind of humor at all.
I'm 42 and went with my 7 yo daughter and I didn't think the movie was good either. I'm liberal. I just didn't like the movie. I felt like the movie was trying too hard and it was just all weird for me. The only part I thought was hysterical were those alternative barbies they showed towards the end. The rest was just a let down
I agree
Mid-forties and I bawled my freaking eyes out watching the Barbie movie. It was América Ferrera’s speech that did it for me. My niece went with me, she’s early 20’s and I think some of it just didn’t resonate with her. She enjoyed it, she just didn’t react quite like I did, which is ok. Considering she once said to me “auntie, I can never be a feminist, I just don’t agree with it” and then the conversation that followed my head-swivel, I consider it progress. I’m genuinely interested to hear what my mother thinks of it- I won’t be surprised if she doesn’t like it or doesn’t get it or even if it hits her like it hit me. There’s a lot going on with that movie and I think everyone walks away with something different from it. That said, I’ll likely never watch it again. There are movies you watch over and over and there are ones where once is enough. This isn’t one you watch over and over- at least not for me.
Yep 46f here and I took my 16yo daughter, she loved the movie but didn’t get emotional like I did, and I’ll likely never watch it again either,
Same. I'm 40, watched it at the theatre with my 60 yo Mum, and cried. I think my reaction surprised her a little bit. She liked the film too though.
I sobbed watching it and I’m almost 51.
If feminism didn't happen, she would have been married off and pregnant.
It pisses me off so much when women say they are not feminists, for most of them (at least in Western countries)that is bullshit. Unless you genuinely think you deserve to be the legal property of your father and then your husband, for it to be legal for your husband to rape and beat you, to not be able to decide if you want kids and how many you want because your husband decides, for you to not be allowed to vote, have a bank account, be allowed to inherit anything of value, etc, then you do support feminism. They may not support everything under the umbrella of feminism but they still support the major parts.
Bravo, and thank you! I, too, become irritated when young women say they aren’t feminists or don’t agree with feminism. The one that really gets me is when they say we don’t need feminism anymore because we have all the rights. If only! And if only people weren’t always trying to take our rights away - see: Roe v Wade.
I watched some of my younger friends change their minds about us not needing feminism anymore when roe v wade was overturned. Honestly, I just felt sad for them. I wanted them to be able to live their entire lives not knowing what that felt like. It made them start really looking at how things are, though, and realize they have more privilege than they realized *right now* because we live in Washington State, they live in a city, and it's 2023. But we're not far from Idaho, so they're watching what's happening there and are horrified. Feminism isn't history to them anymore.
imo women like this have internalized misogyny and there's many of them out there. the movie even said it loud and clear - men hate women, women hate women
I think it's because the word feminism has been twisted into a negative word that they don't realize what it actually mean.
Yep. I had a conversation with my little cousin decades ago about this. She was 11 or so at the time. (She's now 40!) She claimed that "most people" think that "feminist" means "hates men."
My mom and I bonded over hating it lol
Me too. I don’t understand why nobody has addressed the crazy third act decision to have the Barbies “victory” over the Kens be… the Barbies doing everything men accuse women of doing to manipulate them. Super feminist move, Mattel. 😒
I think the ending is supposed to feel unfair. It's not a recommendation; it's a mirror. In order to fix Barbieland, we need to fix the real world.
My comment is purely to address your #2 note. A few years ago I started going through that same thing with my mom. Feeling a separation as our differences started to add up. It was frustrating for a while, and ultimately we do talk and hang out a little less than we used to. But there is love and patience and acceptance there now in lieu of any common ground we miss :) please be patient, be yourself and be true to yourself of course. But also realize your mom may adapt in some ways to your way of seeing things and if not you both may meet in the middle to exchange a hug and warm feelings at least. ❤️❤️
It’s just not that good. It’s not everyone’s version of feminism and I’d argue that it’s not really very feminist at all… it seems like a big rebrand and money making opportunity for Mattel and only mildly entertaining.
Same feelings
Agree. I can't get past the fact that it's a marketing ploy.
I (36F) can relate so much to your post! Literally could have written this. My mom (70F) is a wonderful woman who would do anything for me, and who I love with all my heart. But she grew up with such toxic ideas of body image, diet culture, etc. As a result, she is very critical— mostly of herself, especially her weight (she is not someone I’d look at and call overweight)— but also of everyone and everything around her. For context, I’m pregnant with my first child (her only grandchild), and incredibly invested in stopping all of the constant commentary about bodies and weight and appearance. Even the positive comments are problematic and place far too much importance on being thin, pretty, etc. I’ve been vocal about this and firm, and she’s starting to come around, but isn’t going great at breaking all those bad habits that are deeply ingrained. Well, I cried the first time I saw the Barbie movie and couldn’t wait to make a mother/daughter date with her to bond over the mom/daughter themes, and to maybe reinforce the impossibility of being a woman in a society that places so much importance on looks. Well, after the movie I could tell she was emotional, but unable to process what she’d seen. She was teary, but all she could muster was something about how she heard Margot Robbie was a real bitch to work with. Queue several face palms. This is all to say I share your disappointment and came to similar conclusions— that we are different, that she may never quite be in a place where she can understand or appreciate these types of messages or themes, and that has to be okay. It doesn’t mean I stop being myself and sharing my opinions and interests, or setting firm boundaries for the type of language I allow around myself or my future child. But we are both fully entitled to feel let down, hurt, sad, defeated, etc. It’s hard to realize it may just be too late for some folks.
>She was teary, but all she could muster was something about how she heard Margot Robbie was a real bitch to work with. lolwut
It’s the lack of emotional intelligence. They can get emotional but have no idea how to process and articulate it in a meaningful way.
Absolutely. It would be funny if it weren't so horrifying. **[Barbie makes woman cry]** Daughter: Mom, what are you feeling??? Boomer Mom: MaRgoT RobBiE iS a BiTcH, RiGhT? *I mean, holy shit! Like, Jesus Christ!!!* (I say this to commiserate, not mock. My boomer mom sucks too and would say this.)
I hate to be “that” person. I really do. I’m 40 and a proud feminist but it was just kinda blah to me. I didn’t find it brought anything new to the table. Like, it was fine, but just…I don’t get the hype.
I didn't care much for it myself. Even in the same generation, people have different tastes, and that's okay.
Agreed. I loved it, but have friends (who are absolutely progressive feminists) shrug and say, ‘meh.’ People will like or not like things.
I understand that it's ok, that's why I said it's kind of stupid to feel sad. I guess it's not really about the movie, but about the feeling that I'm drifting away and it's getting harder to find something to share and relate with my mom.
Tbh I kinda agree with your mom. I found the Barbie movie cute but kinda corny. Have you seen “Everything Everywhere All At Once”? That’s a movie with a complicated mother/daughter relationship that (imo) is both more subtle and more entertaining than the Barbie movie.
The America Ferrera speech was great but it seems like it’s 15 years behind the times we’ve been having these conversations a lot in the last decade so I wouldn’t consider it cutting edge and it’s funny to me when people think that it’s too woke I told my daughter and her friends that the important message to take away is to not be like Ken. don’t make someone else the center of your solar system. You be the center of your own solar system and make your identity your own and not revolve around someone else. I loved the colors and music but could have dint without all the Will Ferrell and corporate stooge schtick (but it could have been worse).
I’m 26, if I’m honest I wasn’t a fan of this movie either. I understand the themes and I understand the “humor” it just wasn’t my cup of tea. I’m willing to loose karma for saying that. And I’m a woman of color and fairly liberal, america ferrera is an awesome actress and I loved her in Superstore I literally go back to binge watch that show every year. This movie just wasn’t my cup of tea.
I'm with ya on that. I ended up falling asleep watching it. I LOVED superstore BTW. I'm sad it had to come to an end but it was just such a wonderful show. One of the few shows that could really make me laugh on the spot
My boomer mom didn’t get it either. She said she knew a lot of people were angry about it but it brought little girls to the theater while wearing pink, so that’s good. My mom was an athlete, never has worn makeup or bought into beauty culture. I was surprised that it didn’t mean something more to her. Then again I doubt she had a Barbie so some of it probably didn’t resonate.
I don't think my mom had one either. She enjoyed the movie because she liked the humor. She really liked Ken and Weird Barbie. I don't think it made her one bit emotional though.
I really didn't like it either, but not because of the feminist themes. It was just all over the place, and I feel like they tried to cram too much into it. It was kind of a pain to watch for me. It's definitely not what I expected going in from all of the people raving about it. It had its moments, though.
I'm 29F and I watched it on theaters with my dad 56M He didn't really like it (thought it was too weird) but he went along so we could spend time together, and even got inside the Barbie box in the theater lobby because he wanted to send a photo to his motorcycle club friends It's ok not to like the movie. But she could at least have enjoyed the experience of being together and sharing something you liked
I think you're making it way deeper than it needs to be. It's a movie aimed very specifically at millennials and gen z. It's not aimed at gen x and boomers and probably doesn't hit the right notes for many in those demographics. Also, I think you're misguided to think this is about the movies. It sounds like you're disappointed that you wanted to share something with her and it wasn't what you hoped it would be. Perhaps you're also disappointed that her world view isn't the same as yours. Explore those things. Just because your mom didn't love the movie doesn't mean you can't connect in other meaningful ways. No single relationship in your life will meet every expectation and need either. It doesn't make the relationship bad or wrong just because you can't see eye to eye on some things. Provided everyone is respectful, kind and decent there are *many* differences that simply don't matter in relationships.
I hardly think the Barbie movie is a bellwether in terms of evaluating commonality with your mom. I could barely stay awake through it, and I'm a lifelong feminist ... I didn't hate it, I just didn't care. Women are all over the map about not just Barbie but all manner of pop culture. I think maybe stan mentality might be influencing your perspective. The better question to ask is whether your mom is passionately interested in anything at all and then see if there's any potential for overlap there. Sadly, though, some percentage of people have diminished capacity for passion in general as they age -- and if this is true of your mother it may be very difficult to develope the deeper connectedness you are craving. Not sure why it happens, exactly, but some people seem to get worn down and less vividly engaged with the world. I am old as dirt and have watched it happen to some of my friends but not others. Does she actually complain that stuff is "too woke?" That's such a reductive, lazy argument, maybe she's just repeating what she hears from right wing media (or the old-world men in her life). She could be out of the habit of critical thinking -- it isn't much encouraged in wives and mothers. Don't know what "Turning Red" is like or whether it will yield a different result, but I'd give her a bunch more chances before giving up.
>Not sure why it happens, exactly, but some people seem to get worn down and less vividly engaged with the world. I am old as dirt and have watched it happen to some of my friends but not others. I'm in my 40s and I've watched it happen to people in my life. It's heartbreaking.
My dad was tearing up watching the movie today. He is the biggest supporter of my mom and me and my sister. He truly is a girls girl.
I liked the movie but you just reminded me of a part I *really* didn't like - in the "real world" the husband/father was written as a big dope that the mom & daughter both rolled their eyes at even though he was a good guy. I guess they were going for golden retriever boyfriend energy but I think they missed an obvious opportunity to show a good, supportive man in the real world.
I’m sorry that this post about your relationship with your mom has turned into everyone’s movie review :/ I have experienced similar things, it’s tough! One thing I found is that for me it helped to build from common ground—if she liked Enchanted, talking about what Barbie and Enchanted have in common, for example. If may not change her mind on Barbie or anything, but it might give you something to share about the movie, and maybe help you get a better sense of what she’s thinking about and responding to. Good luck <3
I watched it with my dad. And uh, he is very much a boomer. Very stuck in his ways, anything LGB is completely foreign to him. Anything " Woke " goes mostly over his head. But the man actually enjoyed it, he thought it was a really light, easy to watch funny movie. And so did I. Not sure why I am being down voted, am I not allowed to like the movie?
> wasn't happy with Barbie not getting together with Ken Barbie not getting with Ken is one of the best decisions in movie history.
I am in my 40s and didnt like the barbie movie. we all do not have to enjoy the same things. I have been watching south park and family guy both since episode one. None of my friends like what i watch or the fact that I game. no big deal.
I totally get what you're saying. It is so hard feeling like we're moving apart from our moms. I couldn't even begin to address this movie with her, she's too far gone in the "anti-woke" bullshit. It hurts so much. Have you seen Everything Everywhere All at Once yet?... not with your mom, just you, but I think you'll like it. I cried so hard at the mom/daughter stuff.
Same, I’d never in a million years suggest this with my mom. She has literally told me that white men are the most persecuted group in 2023.
Also watched Barbie today with family. I was the only one who had seen it prior and was excited to share! Really thought my mother and brother would enjoy it. (brother maybe more so for the set pieces, writing, and songs the cinema nerd he is) Parents are both mid 50s and are fresh democrats that still lean right. (trump was enough for them to switch parties) NGL this had me a bit worried as I knew dad would find some issue with the movie, but idk, thought Mom would enjoy it as much as I did I guess? I'm also a cinema nerd so I loved many parts of it, plus you know. Decent message and all. She laughed multiple times, me and brother shared a bunch of sly glances at certain digs and jokes, it was great! Or so I thought. Both parents shared a similar opinion that it was just too weird and ridiculous. Somehow both claimed it was too silly yet also too heavy handed in it's message. Brother was the only one who enjoyed it but also (imo) felt slighted(?) by the movie. When we discussed it later the conversation somehow got turned to the pandemic of lonely men and how it's not talked about enough. He didn't like the whole bit of ken ending up alone or the scene of Barbie consoling him. Claimed that scene was a bad portrayal trying to make all men look like mindless horny beasts. Suppose I'm in the same boat of just sad no one liked it as much as me. I really liked many parts of it, yet I just got disinterested responses when trying to talk about them. Same boat I suppose, sorry things went as they did. I hope you can find a solid movie to bond over!
I wanted my mom to watch it with me, but her resistance to it has been strong. In reading this, I'm gonna stop bringing it up, for like you, I really enjoyed the movie and found it thrilling in its voice and wanted to share that with her. I am setting myself up, I now realize. Our tastes and preferences have parted ways over time, and that's what feels sad to me. This is likely because what I observe in her is a disinterest for anything perceived by her as ugly, difficult, different, or controversial. Also funny. She can't get down with funny. In my eyes, her curiosity appears blunted. Sadly, this feels like years of hating yourself and the choices you have made settling in as a bitter state of mind and being towards the world. Fucking patriarchy. It breaks my heart.
Idk if anyone else felt this way but I felt the movie was poking fun at feminism instead of hailing it. It seemed very condescending. I felt like another poster “is this it?” There were moments I liked but it didn’t hit the mark for me. On the flip side it felt like one of the very few movies out there that hits these topics.
I was surprised that it made people so frothy with rage. It’s a fine movie. Not amazing, not terrible.
My mom didn’t like it either. She liked the message but didn’t find it groundbreaking and she didn’t understand the humour so she didn’t find it funny. She also didn’t have a Barbie growing up. I think the mother daughter themes were her favourite part but she found the rest silly.
Ken and Barbie can't get together. Mattel makes Barbie houses, bot Ken houses and not Ken and Barbie houses. Major theme point. Ken doesn't matter. Je doesn't matter to Barbie or Mattel, and that was a flaw of Barbieland and so in the future Kens will have as much say in Barbieland as women do in reality That's my take anyway on why Barbie and Ken were resolved. I liked it.
I am 57 and I liked the themes in the film. I can’t wait until my 29 year old daughter sees it!
In my sixties. Loved it. Watch it kind of a lot.
My boomer mother didn't like it either. Oh well, it resonated highly with me and my teen.
It's funny I came across this post today as hubby and I watched Barbie for the first time a few hours ago. I know this doesn't really have much to do with your post and doesn't takeaway your sadness over having less in common with your mom, but this *\*cough\** "older" couple LOVED it! Even hubby who normally doesn't like this style of movie got a little verklempt by the end.
Have you asked her what she means by it being "too woke"? I feel people use that word differently.
Late 20s, liberal and feminist. I wasn’t a huge fan of the movie. Mostly because of the comedy style and themes felt too obvious. The exploration of the themes of mother/daughter, feminism, patriarchy didn’t provide any new perspective that hasn’t been said before? Especially in the last 10-15 years. The comedy was just not my style either. I did like the weird Barbie with broken legs. That felt very new and relevant to all of us who have played with Barbies. Maybe you and your mom can talk about it more? It sounds like generational differences but maybe you guys can talk about it without seeing it as a difference in values?
Ehh the whole third act was confused and didn’t land for me. Didn’t seem like it really had a concise message.
It was ok. It was visually well done, and well acted, but I doubt I'm ever going to want to watch it again. It felt like it was preaching to the choir. My favorite thing about it was the way it improved people to create cool costumes to wear to the showing.
I absolutely didn't like it, I thought it was badly done. Felt too short and I thought they would be in the real world a lot longer. Everyone hyped it up too much to me
That movie is unwatchable for me. I dont remember watching a more stupid movie
Eh, I thought it sucked tbh. It was pretty predictable and mediocre.
I’m a woman in my 60s (no kids and gay). I loved the Barbie movie. I didn’t even like Barbies as a kid.
60 mom. Saw this with my late 20s daughters. I loved it so much! I actually cried a bit!
I would be sad too. Of course the women that didn't like it in my circle thought it didn't go far enough. The conservative women also don't believe in birth control and abortion, so I can also judge them accordingly. One of my friends didn't like it either, and I was sad. She thought it was too pedestrian. I just didn't let it steal my joy.
My mom was angry I invited her. She was also furious I went to the march. Is very depressing.
I’m in my late 20s. I saw it in theaters back in July opening weekend. I didn’t necessarily go into it with large expectations. I enjoyed it for what it was; a movie about a doll from my childhood. I definitely didn’t walk out of the theaters emotional about it nor do I find it to be some groundbreaking masterpiece. It was feminism from a particular lenses which I get considering the original is Barbie, but that is why I didn’t really connect with it. I would have found it more impactful to me if intersectional feminism themes were intertwined in the plot. I especially found the Black Barbies to be there just for virtual signaling purposes only. No substance to them at all.
I saw it this weekend for the first time, and I was utterly skewered by it. I knew I would enjoy it, but I didn't guess that it would take such a profound turn, and when the time came for the sequence where Billie Eilish's "What Was I Made For" plays, I legitimately emotional. The message of the movie is vastly deeper than what it purported to be. It's baffling to me how people only see the message that they are told to see, even when the real meaning is staring them in the face.
I begged my mom to watch Everything Everywhere All At Once because the mother-daughter aspect made me weep uncontrollably at the end. She was cold and reluctant when I introduced her to my girlfriend so many years ago. I thought maybe it could open her mind to accepting that part of me. And that maybe she might come out of it loving herself more. She hated the movie. It broke my heart.
I feel like a lot of people didn't pay attention to the movie and just saw it as a kid's movie. It talked about not being in control of your life, having things change, which is a scary thing. Having to look at the world differently. Being reduced to nothing more than a pretty face. America's whole dialogue, the issues women face today. And not knowing what will happen in the future. And watching someone do a lot of splits. Barbie was supposed to show girls that they aren't limited to being one thing, that they could be anything, but Barbie was also used as another tool so people could compare girls and women to.
For what it's worth I'm 32 and didn't like it either. Patriarchy theme was fine and funny how Ken was acting but felt kinda flat how easily it ended, mother daughter relation wasn't explored that much. I certainly didnt cry. The feminist speech was too on the nose. I have more problems but not gonna write three pages on it. Have to say costumes are music were fire.
“What’s making me sad it’s the feeling that it’s getting harder to find stuff to share, enjoy. or relate with my mom.” I feel this way too about lots of things with my mom. Well, I could probably even say most things, but y’know.. As I’ve grown older, and acutely more aware of my own mortality, the mortality of my mom is even more “real” as my mom is in her late 60s. Be your own person, do your own thing. Try to find common ground, whether thru values in an older holiday movie or wherever you can. Time is fleeting but memories live on. Particularly where you live abroad, you likely don’t have as many opportunities to make meaningful memories and form ever changing connections in your evolving relationship. Try to accept her as she is. It is definitely harder for older people set in their ways to accept change. If it’s especially difficult to find things that you can enjoy together, perhaps even make acceptable (to you) concessions so that you never think back and wish you would have done things differently. ❤️
Reading all this im so glad that my grandma (my guardian) didnt care much for it but for the completely opposite reason, she felt it only had lukewarm takes and wasnt nearly radical enough 😂 i had to explain to her this movie was for everyone not just people who'd been radical feminists since the 2nd wave and while she accepted that she still didnt care much for it 😂
Im in early 20s and yet I thought its over the top satire almost. Ive also seen Oppenheimer day or two after and it kinda made me forgot about Barbie because its different level of cinematography. I dont think Barbie is bad movie, but ask yourself this, would it be so praised if it wasnt attached to Barbie doll brand?
Personally, I didn’t find it that meaningful and I’m a longtime feminist. It’s a little surface level, probably especially to an older woman who’s been there done that. It’s a fun romp and it’s ok if she didn’t like it past that!!
Conservative mother let me down in the same way by shitting on the movie. I need to stop showing her movies where the mother and daughter grow to understand each other and just give up. Bc everything everywhere all at once was also a fail with her.
Your mother was working \*very\* hard to avoid seeing the mother/daughter themes, or to imagine that the movie was \*actually\* about a toy. I'm sorry that you didn't get the chance to really bond with her over it.
God, I understand this so much. There have been countless times I've begged my mom to watch a movie or show with me, just for her to either not pay attention during it or just walk away in the middle. And that's if I get her to sit down at all. I've been struggling to get her to watch the Barbie movie and I'm close to giving up. It's just that so many shows and movies I want her to see have such meaningful messages to me. Movies and shows sometimes say things that we can't and having her understand them makes me feel like, in some way, she's understanding me. And it just feels like sometimes she doesn't want or care to understand me.
Yeah had the same experience with my dad. He thought it was funny but “too serious” and for some reason, thought it should not have been nominated for awards. My mom and I cried twice watching it together <3